The TRUTH Behind the f/11 MYTH that the PROS Know!
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In this week’s episode, we discuss the truth behind the f/11 myth that the pros know. If you've gotten into outdoor and landscape photography in the last ten years you've more than likely heard that f/11 is the best aperture to use for this genre of photography. In this video, I'll share with you three reasons that debunk this f/11 myth along with what I've found to be a much better solution when it comes to determining the best camera settings for your photography gear. I hope you enjoy this week's video and as always thanks so much for watching! - Mark D.
✅ VIDEO CHAPTERS
🔘 Sensor Size Matters 1:10
🔘 Focal Length Matters 2:52
🔘 Lens Performance 4:52
🔘 Finding the Sweet Spot 6:30
🔘 Objects in Your Scene 7:25
🔘 The Better Solution 10:01
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There is one more variable you should consider. The placement of the focus point. DOF extends in front of and behind that focus point. If you shoot at f8, go to a depth of field chart and see where your focus point needs to be in order for good (acceptable) focus to be obtained from say 15 feet in front of your camera to infinity. Then you can begin to learn about the circle of confusion.
I was about to say this as well. Hyper focal distance will change all of this.
Hyper focal distance is hard though. You have to focus on the exact spot or else the entire photo is not sharp.
Absolutely - Focus point placement also plays a big role in all of this.
I miss when lenses had DoF scales on them. Made hyperfocal focusing easy.
After many years of shooting Canon lenses - EF-S, EF-L, and now RF - I have found field curvature to be my biggest problem. I have learned to push my focus point (and plane of focus) back, beyond what might be considered optimum.
Generally, I have found central sharpness to be good within a relatively large focal distance range, but the edges can vary a lot (with focal distance), so I push focus closer to infinity. The center holds its front to back sharpness, and the edges also sharpen up nicely.
With my RF 24-105/4 I have found that with a subject at 6-8m (20-25 ft) I am better to focus at infinity than the actual subject!
Thank you Mark. As always, very well described. I did the "test" when I first got my lens to see which aperture was best and sharpest. I found 5.6 and 8 to be the sharpest. I have to admit my most recent photos I set around F11 when in daylight as my default so I will challenge myself to shoot at my lens most sharpest value. Thank you for keeping me honest! Keep shooting!
Man I miss watching your videos. Also it looks like you have improved a lot as a photographer. The photos you shared with us are phenomenal. You were always a great photographer but you have gotten even better! Love to see it.
Thanks so much!
I actually shot one of my favorite landscape shots on a FF A1 with a 24GM wide open at f1.4 with NDs doing long exposure. Rules are meant to be broken. Everything is subjective and sometimes you can use the focal plane to highlight the subject and create more of a "dreamy" feel. Again totally subjective though and circumstance dependant, but sometimes it just works better to push things the other way and let the "rules" be damned.
100% agree with that!
Not my favorite picture but I once captured a snail by the water. I wanted the motion blur and the shallow depth of field. So I did the same thing.
@@RonaldPlett You got motion blur when panning to photograph a snail? I love this 😂
SO FUNNY! Shutter drag roller shots of a snail have to be the funniest thing I've heard in a while.@@EmilWall
When I first saw your thumbnail, I just assumed this video was going to be clickbait. But after watching another of your videos where you mentioned this one, I was curious enough to see what you had to say. I must admit, I made a wrong assumption. Not only is everything you had to say truth, but you explain it in such a way that it really makes sense. It made me look at my lenses and photography differently, and now I’m looking forward to getting out and testing my camera and lenses to see where the sweet spots are. As soon as it stops raining, that is. I just discovered your channel today and I really like your style and level of explanation. I’m an experienced photographer, but not so much in landscapes and I want to get better at them. I have just subscribed. Keep up the good work and thank you.
Good information, as always, Mark. On a side note, my first reaction to your very serene Bali coastal tree fort photo is that I had to look twice and get closer to my screen, as it almost looked like a really well done drawing. Nice photo.
Mark, I love your videos. You are truthfully one of my favorite TH-cam photography channels. That being said, sometimes your videos are too advanced for me. I often feel overwhelmed to the point that when I get out in the field to take pics,,,I suffer from paralysis of analysis. It’s not just you,,,so many other channels do the same thing. You are a seasoned veteran; so the basics of just taking great photos is natural for you. For me,,,and maybe others, the struggle is standing in front of beautiful landscape or wildlife and figuring out how to shoot it. Do I prioritize aperture or shutter speed first? I just returned from the Grand Tetons,,,I was lucky enough to get some great opportunities to photograph wildlife. But when I got home and reviewed the pics. Most of them were not very good,,,primarily because my camera setting were not appropriate for the situation.
You’ll eventually build up to this. Focus on the concept of what he is talking about here and test your lens to figure out the best aperture. You will then figure out what the other settings need to be to shoot sharp. Take the high level concept here and test it - hope that helps #beautyiswiild
F11 for landscapes reminds me of all those Photographic workshops I took where strict adherence to Basic Daylight Exposure (BDE) was taught. That and the Nikon seminar where I was derided for shooting in Manual (Mascoshist) mode. You learn and you move on.
Hahah - exactly!
As you said, knowing the sweet spot aperture help to get optimal quality for a specific lens (or should I say specific focal length if its a zoom lens). For that specific apeture then it is wise to know the Hyperfocal distance. It will tell you the closest distance that will be in focus up to infinity. Then you have different choices. You can move back until your front subject in within the DOF (no matter the size of front subject), or you can decide to focus stack if DOF is not sufficient and you visualise you front subject larger than what DOF can offer. Photography is an art, but it is very dependant on technics and science. The more you can master the science, the more crative options you get.
The F11 came from the godfather of landscape photography Ansel Adams where as he would only use very high aperture on his images, but people forget he used 8x10,16x20 and 6x6film cameras for his work. On the 16x20 f64 was the aperture used and f11 on 6x6 , to give him maximum depth of field, they did not have focus stacking.
I was gonna suggest that the myth probably came from a long time ago. Lenses are becoming super fast these days!
@@magellanicspaceclouds Format size had the most to do with the f/11 myth. The larger the format, the smaller the aperture you need for the same depth of field and angle of view. It's not uncommon to use a 250 to 300mm lens on 8x10 view cameras. The degree of enlargement needed for a 16x20 is only 2X! So f/32 to f/64 was quite often the range. Contrast that with Micro 4/3, where f/5.6 to f/8 is more appropriate.
And don't forget that large format cameras gives you greater flexibility to tune your DoF with those tilt/shift/etc movements, so you don't have to pick smallest apperture, e.g f/64
Adams never used one single f/stop for his zone work. He metered highlight, mids and shadows and selected an average f/stop based on what he wanted to bring to the darkroom for his final image. He did a lot of film compression in post to get what he did and invissioned his final image before his first exposure.
I don't believe Adam's used a camera larger than 8x10. His enlarger could only handle a 8x10 neg. As in all view cameras, he used tilts and swings to get more in focus.
I used to do this for almost 8 years! As I was a landscape shooter. F11. Later graded down to F8. But later I figured that when I buy a new lens I need to take photos with different F stops and figure out which F stop is the sharpest. Thank you
Great advice!
I once learned at a wedding photography class you can have an entire group of people (3 or 4 rows) in focus, even at f 5.6 if you use a wider angle lens like 24 to 35 mm. People would be tempted to use f11 or even f16 and running the risk of needing high iso (noise) or longer shutter speeds (unsharp pics because people move a little). Same story as in the video.
Mark, this is great! As a veteran photographer and photo lab rat, I had encountered all of this over the last five decades. Throw in print size and cropping, too. The larger the print, the more pixel peepers will be disappointed in DOF. Most DOF charts are based on 8x10 print size. If you view any uncrossed print so it fills your visual field, it is likely to have adequate DOF. But large print sizes and heavy cropping, especially on images that are viewed closely, will require slightly smaller apertures to look their best. I'm now a Micro 4/3 user. I just avoid apertures smaller than f/6.3, because diffraction becomes an annoying destroyer of sharpness as I stop down from that point. Frankly, I seldom need to stop down beyond f/6.3, because I'm using half the focal length of full frame for any given field of view. I can use two stops wider aperture and get roughly the same DOF.
Loved seeing the bellows camera here! One of my prized possessions is my mother's old Ansco Speedex Junior bellows camera that she bought in the 1940's and which was my entry point into photography 50 years ago. It looks a lot like yours. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Most important thing I learned from practicing photography is that there are no rules, just guidlines that there is no reason not to deviate from, every photo is situational as well as your taste in the art
In every life department fundamentals are most important thing. There are some rules, that when broken, result is shitty.
@@montazownianr1 They are called the laws of physics... ignore them at your peril.
Thank you. I really enjoy your videos and learn something new each time. I am a teacher and must compliment you on your teaching skills. You are clear and easy to follow.
That means a lot - thank you Robin!
Mark... your explanation is great if we are talking about a still (no movement) short distant landscape. F-whatever is always an experiment depending on the overall depth of the shot (2 ft, 20 ft. 10,000ft.) of the subject. If I am taking a large format landscape (or even a small one) I will setup on a tripod and focus stack the shot. I would never rely on a f11 or f8 stop to capture my entire composition.
I tried f/11 on a hike yesterday because of how often f/11 or even f/16 is promoted for DOF advantage, and was surprised to see my images softer than I expected. What a relief to encounter your video here providing counter argument. I will definitely perform a more methodical "bench" test of my lens to get to know its sweet spots. This camera system (Canon R8 + 24-105 f/4L) is a new upgrade for me (from crop sensor dSLR), we're still getting acquainted. I'm not clear on how a full frame sensor impacts such things, but I get the feeling that I'm going to have to up my focus game from before, it may not be quite as forgiving.
im new to this and just tried it in the house...wow...puts everything in foreground and back ground in focus...awesome ...thanks
Simon d'antremond suggested me this channel cause i asked for a great landscape photographer channel. So happy that he did and really like your contents! Keep up the great work!🙏🏼
Thank you for this very informative video. I find all your content easy to watch and definitely will watch more over the holidays.
D850 user from the Fraser Coast 🇦🇺
One of your best videos. Why? Because this is a nugget that isn't found all over the interwebs. Keep these coming!
Right on! But often, timing, lighting conditions, camera position such being very low on wet ground, and weather prevent me from directly observing whether everything is within my set depth of field. This is especially problematic when I use a compact camera with a small view screen. You might also discuss DOF software, and possibly how to find or make DOF cheat sheets to keep in your camera bag,
That Bali picture is so incredible!! Totally surreal!🤩
Fantastic video. One thing that is not talked about much which also needs to be given consideration is Diffraction and the diffraction limited aperture. Fullframe at say 30mp and you will start seeing in theory diffraction at around f/11. However you take that up some say the R5 or something around 50MP and that can come down to around f/8. The same lens at the same aperture on two different bodies with the same sensor size but different MP count may end up looking different. When you take this into account with the likes of m4/3 you are then looking at something around f/5 by the time you get to 24MP and that is even without taking into account the lens. It becomes a juggling act now, stop down for more dof but risk diffraction setting in further and softening the image regardless of the lens resolution capability or sweet spot in regards aperture.
I can’t say I heard that one before. The most common things I see and hear are find your lens’s sweet spot or, f8 to f16 is the best range for landscape. I have also heard that you should set focus a third of the way through the shot. That one works most of the time. I have not been able to determine sweet spot on either of my lenses.
I chuckled immediately when I read the title and you verified it when I watched the video (good stuff, by the way). I was just as guilty for a long time, years ago, until it finally dawned on me that I was often doing more harm than good. Now I hate to look at some of those early images, especially now that I can focus stack at proper settings that fit each particular scene (supposing I desire such dof, of course). So, yeah, I grin a wee bit sheepishly when thinking back to some of my early misperceptions :)
Mark, again you give me something to better my photography. I will be trying this soon, when snow stops in Buffalo NY area.
2:23 - oh my god, that's a real photo?! I almost spit my tea out
Interesting video - I usually find these days most landscape lenses are sharpest at f5.6 to f8 but obviously you need to watch out for the DOF to get it right. I also find that online DOF calculators often overestimate the DOF so nothing really beats trial and error with the specific equipment you use
I'm a believer! I enjoyed how you explained the differences and how to test to make sure all is in focus. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is an excellent video Mark! I use a Sony 24-105mm F4 as my workhorse lens on my a7IV and F8 is generally the sharpest for landscape shots. When I can focus stack, F5.6 and 6.3 produce awesomely sharp images. Its all about knowing your lens as you said.
Good points here! It seems to me that another important factor one needs to get right is knowing WHERE to focus within a scene. Of course, there are multiple methods for figuring that out. I always have to laugh to myself when I watch Thomas Heaton because he often says out loud, "focus 1/3 in" when explaining his shot and his images are always fabulous! So many variables that go into making a nice shot. Thanks again for the great info. Have a good week and a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday.
That's when he's usually focus stacking.
Many scenes will work well if focusing in a third of the scene. One unit in focus before the focus point and two units behind the focus point will be in focus.
The size of your f stop will determine how deep the units will be.
If nothing is close to the lens or camera the less important this is.
Also, for these situations focus stacking might be better or there could be a compromise in focus.
His whole point is if you want everything in focus
If I shoot a telephoto lens with everything far away it could all be in focus at say f8.
Super info Mark. Really appreciate you and your sharing.
Being one from film camera days, I appreciate that you point out that f/11 is not the same across the various “frame sizes” (formats). F/11 often for most standard 35mm camera lenses was the last f stop before diminished returns. The trade for depth came in resolution (lines resolved) and chromatic aberration. Your mention about 2-3 f stops beyond widest (lower number) f stop is a reasonable rule of thumb. Those raised on digital have the advantage of being often able to access sharp lenses and being able to find their best f stop for sharpest image, what to focus on and then perhaps focus stack with post image capture editing etc.
Mark, you are a gem. I mainly use 2 cameras, Lumix LX100II, Nikon D750. Most used lens range Nikkor 24-70 2.8. (1.7-2.8 on the Lumix). I have struggled with this forever, even understanding and using focus placement I struggle to get the difference in depth of field between the 2 lenses. My remedy has to usually increase the f stop which sometimes even exacerbated the problem. So it has always been a compromise, until maybe tonight. Thanks muchly for the well explained lesson.
Having learned photography with film and a 4x5 camera, I was very much under the influence of Ansel Adams and used very small apertures to achieve sharpness. That was 35 years ago. I quickly learned that those apertures did not apply to digital photography and small sensors. I remember taking some images at f16 with a Nikon CX sensor and being disappointed in the results. Even with newer full frame sensors I would never shoot above f8 under most circumstances. The one exception is macro photography where I do shoot a f22. The depth of field is so shallow that a smaller aperture does bring out the background even though inis blurred. Thank you for exploring this topic.
Thank you for the great advice and such beautiful images
Thanks a million Chris!
Awesome video, Mark. Love your style man. Hope things are well!
Thanks a million Rob!
I have to say I was not aware of the f11 myth. Bottes my first photography teacher told me about a different lenses being the sharpest about three-four stops away from their biggest hole, almost 40 years ago. Coming back to photography after a long break I am happy to have this knowledge reinforced.
Thank you for the video.
These days sometimes I shoot landscape/nightscape/cityscape wide open say f2 or f2.8 and get amazing results. It creates kind of 3D effect in the image. In other cases; it's f8. I use Canon FF, APS-H and APS-C bodies.
This is great information. I need more practice with landscape photos. My system often sits at f11+ all the time due to underwater photography. Wish i could use a lower Aprature. The reason I need to use high stops is due to the dome port for the underwater housing projecting a Curved lens..
Nice to see the kindness of others, enjoy your new space guys
While wider focal length definitely gives you more DOF, it also "invites" you to focus on closer objects. This was the trap I fell when I got my first UWA lens - I even thought lens was faulty but when I actually started to measure distances it came out that I often focused just couple of feet away while expecting horizon to be razor sharp :) That being said, I do not think you should be overly crazy about maximum sharpness of the lens either, modern equipment lets you get away even with f16 easily despite the diffraction - no one is looking at your images at 100% magnification.
Over here in the german speaking part we have a saying F4 for Human and Animal F8 for the landscape (works better in german, trust me) - and even then its advisable to remember what focal lengh you use, and where your focus point is.
I find it good to know your lense and roughly know how it behaves wide open, where its sweet spot is and from when difraction starts to kick in. Besides that, not everything needs to be in focus, its not like that IRL. And if one really wants everything in focus they can focus stack.
Good point! IF, and only if I need sharpness from front to back, I will focus on at least 3 distances in the picture, one of which is the fartherst part- horizon, and with 40 MP FF (APSc 20 MP) and beyond, I will not go beyond F8 because of diffraction. And if something is right infront of me more steps are needed.... But as @mark denney said, no alot of pictures need it to properly tell the story.... sharpness for me is the4th or 5th on my list of thing to look for....
Another thing that drives me nuts is, when focus stacking is necessary, so many “professional TH-camrs” stick with the narrow aperture they started with trying to get the whole scene in one shot. For example the foreground is so close, the shot can’t be front to back sharp at, say, f14 or f16. So then they stack the shot using those same apertures instead of opening up to the sweet spot of the lens - f8 for example.
Once I have to stack, I don’t care if the stack requires two shots, three or five. Processing the stack takes about the same time regardless of the number of shots. So I pick an aperture around the sweet spot and take more shots than I need.
Great video. Distance to the subject also important.
I agree with you about the sweet spot for aperture selection. Back in the day of DSLRs, the Nikkor 24-70/2.8 was at its best at f/5.6. It was dramatic. I asked a fellow Nikon shooter and he agreed about the sweetspot on that lens. But, more to the point, I rarely used that lens at f/11.
Great information. Thank you!
The issue I have is knowing when I have everything in focus. Many times it looks like it is in the viewfinder and back screen, but once you're in Lightroom you realize some things are slightly out. That's one reason to stop down a little more than you thought you needed to.
very informative, thank you! 👍
I use a smaller format and realised wide open just wasn’t sharp. Not that I wanted everything in focus. Coming from the “film era” I also knew f8 on medium format Kodak film my portraits would have sufficient depth of field.
So depending upon you field of work within “photography” your f stop may need compromise. I agree landscape requires your outlook on this aspect.
Great job.
Another great video. Sadly many years ago I used to use F16 to get everything in focus because someone said so. It took me a few years to learn that most of the time F8 or F9 works the best.
Excellent advice! I've never heard of the three to four stops over the wide-open to find the sweet spot of the lens. I'll run some tests today. Thank you!
Thanks for checking out the video!
2-3 stops over
Cool video subject.
Sweet spot = I always thought this meant something like "compromise", meaning it's not the sharpest (like usually f/5.6, ect. is) but it is definitely good enough.
Thanks David!
Your photo from Bali is one of the best photographs I have ever seen in my life.
It's one of the reasons why I'm happy with my crop 33mm (50mm equivalent) lens for street photos. As it's a crop, I can maintain a usefully deep depth of field without having to kill my exposure (and even sharpness) with a really narrow aperture (which the full frame would need to do more often). And I can achieve hyperfocal much more easily. On the flip side, of course, I have to move closer to get subject separation.
If you were using a larger sensor, you could compensate the higher aperture by also increasing your iso though? Should result in equal if not better image quality. The lower cost and smaller size of aps-c cameras is great though!
@@EmilWall I know that the crop factor works directly on depth of field. So, for example, a full frame would need to have about 1.5 times narrow aperture (say, f2.1 compared to f1.4) to get the same depth of field. If a full frame camera at f2.1 really has the same quality as a crop sensor at f1.4, then yes I'm wrong.
I know the crop sensor would receive 50% more 'intensity', but yes the full frame has the benefit (usually) of bigger light-gathering pixels to make the fuzziness of ISO much less pronounced.
Mark - How does where you focus (focus point) figure into all of this ? Thanks...I really enjoy your videos and get a lot out of them.
A very good point about testing lenses out. On medium format Fuji GFX50ii, the 80mm 1.7 is sharpest at f16, I have found. f11 is excellent too - depending on the scene. in respect of the 100-200 zoom at the lower end ie 100-130mm f11 is sharpest. But up at 170-200mm f5.6 to f8 is sharpest, depending on the scene. Thanks
Good video, Mark. I wonder what tripod do you use, it looks pretty solid, but is not listed in the video description... 🤔
When I bought my first Canon Rebel, there was a deal that I could get a 75-300mm Canon lens with it for $100. It is not a good lens, to say the least. But it is what I had for a long lens. That camera mainly convinced me I wanted a better camera, so I later got a better Rebel, a T3i, but did not replace the telephoto. In 2017 I decided to go to South Carolina to shoot the total eclipse of the sun. I got a filter for that lens and glasses for my eyes. I practiced shooting pictures of the sun rather than learning during the eclipse. I leaned how to get clear shots showing the sunspots. Chromatic aberration is the main fault of that lens, and in general I wanted to minimize that and other of the lens’s faults. I found some online tests for that particular iteration of that lens, and it looked like f/11 was its sweet spot. So yes, Mark, there is a lens whose best seems to be f/11. I wouldn’t recommend the lens to anyone, but that is what I had at the time. So I shot all the eclipse pictures at f/11. They came out surprisingly well. Focusing was tricky, so I’m glad to have that DOF going for me, too. I eventually got a FF Canon and later an EF 100-400mm Mark II. I still use that lens adapted for my GFX 100S, and it does great. I don’t need to stop down so much to deal with lens issues. If Fujifilm comes out with a longer lens, I probably won’t be able to afford it. If I travel somewhere next year for the total solar eclipse, the 100-400mm lens will almost certainly be the one I’ll use on either the DSLR or the 100S. So I’ll need to research the best aperture to use, and buy a solar filter to fit that lens.
I couldn't agree with you more. Several years ago I ran all of my lenses though all f stops on a single target. With the exception of one lens, f8 was the best. It was a time consuming process, but worth every minute of my time. Had a lot of deleting to do afterwords. Whew!
Very interesting perspective (pun intended).
My favourite kind of landscape shots are stitched and focus stacked but will try this out as it does look like a simpler method of getting the scene in focus in one single shot.
It would be helpful for me to see your focus point in each of your beautiful examples.
Hey mark, I’ve always wondered where you put your focus.. do you focus on foreground, mid, or background? And do you use manual or another focus mode? Thanks!!
Great video again, Mark! Thank you! 🙏
THanks Chris!
As you get to higher F ranges you can get barrel distortion-- When in doubt shoot at F8 always works for me -- also you should know thy lens- each lens has its own properties Furthermore, one can use focus stacking and bracketing to solve focus and light issues. Thank you
Fabulous video Mark.
Being a handheld shooter, shutter speed is important too for me. So I look at aperture and shutter speed and leave ISO to auto, unless doing special effects. Now midrange aperture can be a problem shooting video. Why all pro-body cameras don't have built-in ND filters is just crippling. No, I'm not screwing around with installing a ND filter when hanging over a ledge shooting a waterfalls. 🙂 I do use the EF adaptor ND filter (keep it in my pocket) but many times video quality at F18 is good enough. Good tip on depth of field according to zoom. I need to keep this in mind. I've been more concerned with shutter speed being a gun and run type of shooter. Cheers.
Great video. Do you use a lot of focus stacking with your images? In some cases even a F/5,6 or wider (f/4) could be sufficient if your subject is far enough due to the ‘compression’ of the image you’re photographing.
Hi there, your work is stunning, no doubt about it! I've spent many years as a wedding photographer, and I've recently started exploring Landscapes, and I must admit, I tend to find f5.6 to f8 to be the sweet spot. However I do struggle with sharpness throughout the scene. In those images you showed us, how many were actually photostacked, or was more concentration devoted to playing with the hyperfocal distance at the lower f stops? I'm thinking more of the water and woodland scenes. Not where the vista disappears into a deep D.o.f
It makes sense to find that "sweet spot" with every lens you own, and on which body (if you have more than one camera) a certain lens has the best and most useable sweet-spot for your given shooting conditions. Depending on how many different types of shooting you do, I can imagine it gets to be a long process when you buy a new lens. I think it's probably a great idea to run through tests as mentioned. I've done that before, and it can be both useful and fun! I have a 50mm f/1.8 that's incredible at about 6 feet wide open. At 10 feet, it seems to be asking me to stop down to f/2.8 or f/4 to get the same sharpness.
so very true Mark. I have as well come to this conclusion through practice on the field and sometimes I have found that at a very wide focal length f5.6 has been a great spot for me. I guess we all must know well our gear and that all it matters. Great Video brother.
Thanks a million! That's honestly what it comes down to, just knowing your gear.
@@MarkDenneyPhoto 💯
Thank you! Great tutorial, as usual.
Glad you liked it Raymond!
Funny thing is for me... I have never heard this myth before. I am definitely a weird encyclopedia of things like this, but from the beginning when my father was teaching me photography basics we always determined the best aperture to use and rolled with that. And it was because we knew what the scene would need... Well, at the time he did. I did not.
With things like the Sunny 16, or the Looney 11, I think if you are starting out they are a good guide or starting point to grow from. Lots of great tips in this video and in the comments that backs all that up.
I been doing photography for forty years and I've never heard this "myth" either. At least not as any kind of rule that you should always shoot at f11 regardless of scene, lens, and film or sensor size used, etc. It's pretty much always been a rule of thumb that for 35mm you would should somewhere between f8 to f16 for scenes where you are trying to maximize both lens sharpness as well as depth of field so of course shooting somewhere around f11 makes sense but that's about as far as it goes.
Thank you for this video, this is indeed what I recently learned about/found out too and this just confirms exactly that. I was shooting at F11 for certain scenes but I have an APS-C camera and wasn't quite happy with the results, going back down to F5.6 or F8 would/should work better for my camera sensor size. Looking forward the get out there again to shoot away and be happier with my results.
Great stuff thank you!
Great video Mark. This will help me immensely.
Glad to hear it John!
Hi Mark, good advice. I believe an M4/3 system like Olympus has a greater effective depth of field? F8 on full frame would be circa F5.6 on M4/3. Good point useing test shots to find the optimum aperture, no one else has mentioned this, well done for highlighting it.
The factor is about 2. So it is f4.
Better or worse, depending on what you photograph
This was a great video…I have heard F8 is likely a better f-stop. Would love to see examples of when f-11 or higher are good f-stops and achieving foreground to background sharpness (separate from f-stop
I would say macro photography at least in my experience sometimes requires F11+. Otherwise because you are so close to the subject, your depth of field is very shallow. And you can't focus-stackbeveryt.
Great points, I subscribed.
6:48 Ah, a Kodak Tourist with the Kodet lens. When I was getting into film photography I was hunting for the largest negative camera I could get for the cheapest cost. Ended up restoring a $40 Kodak Tourist with the 101mm f/4.5. I then proceded to miss the focus on almost every shot at f/4.5 and now it's just a background prop for zoom calls lol.
I do have a lens that performs best at f/11: the fixed aperture Canon RF 800mm f/11. 😉 But for most lenses that’s indeed not the case. And no single aperture works for every situation. Very informative video.
Thank you again Mark, I am continually disappointed with soft photos using my X-T4, whether its the 18-55mm, 35mm, 50-140mm and especially the 100-400mm lenses. Using a Gitzo tripod, 10 second timer and touch screen to take the photo. I also think I need to punch in on manual focus with focus peaking to make sure the object is in focus.
every lens is different. I recently bought a Viltrox 27mm f1.2 for a fuji x system and was surprised at how sharp it is at f2 and you are right the sharpness drops off after f8 However on the 150-600 lens it has very narrow depth of field at 600mm and because the minimum arperture is F8 that is what I mostly use If I have enough light I will use f10 but dont usually go above that. But on my old Kodak retina 35 mm film camera I usually used f22 to ensure my photos were sharp and they were.
Mark, thanks for making this very helpful video. I just rewatched it and have a question. If DOF becomes shallower moving from a wide angle lens to a longer focal length, or as the field of view narrows, is it then true that a crop sensor will have shallower DOF than a full frame in part because the crop sensor has a longer equivalent focal length and narrower field of view? Just look for a relationship that creates consistency comparing lenses to sensors. In other words, if my APS-C sensor has a crop factor of 1.5 can that same factor be applied to aperture at least for a starting point?
Be interesting to know where your focus points were on those shots
Casually watching and listening, had to do a double take when I heard you mention West Virginia!
Love some WV!
I never heard of this myth, but I totally agree with what you said.
Thanks Mark. U explained that very well.
Pixel density and refraction is also a major factor in keeping aperture low that you didnt mention
I'm down with anyone who can talk about camera gear and strategy in a measured, articulate fashion and use the word behoove. 😉 And my god, what gorgeous photos! ❤
Thanks for this vid. I have never been into the Gia of F11. I suppose for me, F8 or so was the sweet spot, which you mentioned. Question: you showed an example of a coastal landscape where you said that getting the foreground and background into sharp focus was not possible, "even with F32." You mentioned a technique that you used, however I could not clearly understand what you said and how this is achieved. Can you explain this? Cheers!
Great video Mark! Did you use focus stacking on these images? The Oregon coast image in particular looks like it would take multiple exposures to get everything in focus front to back.
Thanks so much! Just the last image in the video
@@MarkDenneyPhoto - Wow! Those medium format cameras really do a great job acquiring focus throughout the image. Now that the GFX 100 II is out, it might be time to make the switch.
Starting at 6:40 you talk about taking test photos. I would strongly recommend not to do that in your house or in your backyard unless you live in a huge mansion - at least not if you are a landscape photographer. Lenses don‘t always perform the same at close distance as they do at long distances or even infinity setting. When I buy a new lens, one of the first things I do is take a series of photos at all full stops of a subject at a distance that is somewhat comparable to what I expect the lens to be used most. I then scrutinize those photos across the frame to see how the lens behaves so that I know what to expect from the unprocessed, but also from processed images at different f-stops for the types of images I usually take.
Never heard of this myth. I've found manual focus & focus peaking on mirrorless cameras for landscape works a treat but have definitely been caught out getting dof wrong on DSLRs, especially trying to shoot multiple wildlife subjects in low light at long focal lengths with lowest ISO on full frame sensors. Very useful reminder of the variables and not to believe everything you hear especially without validated context.
That Bali pic looks like an oil-painting. Beautiful shot.
Mark, you're absolutely right about the myth of f11, but in my experience, a more common myth that is just as unhelpful is "always shoot at the best aperture of the lens in question." I agree with you that it's great if you can, but sometimes you're going to want to shoot wide open for a blurred background, even as a landscape photographer, and sometimes you're going to need to stop down into diffraction territory to get the required depth of field because for whatever reason, you can't focus stack. "Always shoot at the most appropriate aperture for the image" is my mantra. Now clearly you're not promoting this best aperture myth either, it seems to be the thing these days that everybody wants magic settings that will get them the perfect shot, whereas we all know that with experience, one will know at least where to start with settings.
As an aside, I actually have 2 lenses - current ones - whose best aperture is f11. In very large part because that's their ONLY aperture, the Canon RF 600 and 800mm f11. But they're the exceptions that prove the rule.
Very interesting video Mark. Your methodology is much different than mine. But I've suspected for sometime the yours was probably correct. I use a Nikon D850 (full frame) and most of the time use a Nikon 17-35mm f/2.8. Most of my landscape shots look similar to your West Virginia photo you showed. So there is a lot of depth in the scene. I nearly always shoot waterfalls or streams at long exposure times so getting 2-4 second exposures is about my norm. So I nearly always shoot at ISO 64 with Aperture Priority mode. But most of the time I use an f/16 aperture along with a circular polarizer to get longer exposure times. If more time is needed I'll utilize ND filters. But now I usually focus stack with the D850 at f/10 to get everything in sharp focus. But if I were to use f/8-11 on most of my photos, I'd bet something in the background would seem fuzzy. I'll try your technique taking a series of shot at varying apertures and see what happens. But what do you suggest for waterfalls that need 2-4 sec shutter speeds. Using f/9 would not allow you to get that shutter speed with using really dark ND filters. I have the Lee Little Stopper (6 stop) and their Big Stopper (10 stop) but they can be cumbersome to use. I generally just stick with a 3-stop ND. How would you handle this situation. Side thought - make a video showing technique for finding a lenses sharpest aperture.
your videos are so relaxing
Glad you think so!