Fun fact btw, when you're low on mining materials for commissions, you can re enter the holo house to refresh all the commission items as many times as you want, sometimes you can get a high reward for less materials
I do miss the red marker from time to time too lol. The bar even goes beyond the meter sometimes. Luckily the reward for full gathering is just 1 material or so 🙂
yea, because these game mode you can't have a safe build, unlike in the endless game where you can always have the perfect build so you can just focus on dodging the fans. Fishing & smithing requires you to have a full focus on
@@setiadisatria1038not really, with highest level tools you are guaranteed at least 2 materials so you can just skip spamming space bar and keep getting materials while your attention is elsewhere. Besides it is not really that attention intensive like fishing(unless you use a bot)
It's important to note that the game slow down and timer pause on every selection does add a lot of time. It wouldn't have been wrong to give Kaela 10 extra minutes of grinding, but you really should be tracking Marine's run in real time for an unbiased conclusion.
I was thinking this; RTA (real time attack) Marine’s and AZKi’s timers are probably somewhere closer to an hour (menus + slowdown adds a fair bit of time that’s not accounted for with the in-game timer) and there’s also the time taken doing commissions that’s not added either (though I dunno how meaningful that is; I haven’t done the holohouse stuff personally).
My favorite way is Reine with spicy seafood udon and idol costume. 1.5m coins in 34 min at stage 3 hard, without greed stamp, halu, or any super items.
You can also farm coins using the Casino by exchanging for the material bags and selling the materials. I'm not sure how much coins it could make compare to other method, but I doubt it's as much as the main game and the comission.
I must say, i played Holohouse more often than the main game xD, leveling up workers and manager Lv while im grinding for commissions, sometime fishing for worker's meal. Woodcutting and mining still at level 7, and manager at level 3, im still have alot to do with this game for next months the fact i just finally download and play Holocure like last 2 week, 30 hours in game.
Hopefully people still post coins runs, even if there isn't as much "Number go up", because they are so much more interesting. As much as leveling up in this minigame scratched that Old School Runescape itch that has been whispering to go back to that game, I definitely wouldn't use it to make actual money.
For a hands-off but rather inefficient method I've been doing sometimes, just get an autoclicker (10ms interval) and go to the casino and let it play the slots. I leave it running while I watch streams and long form youtube videos and make a million usachips in like an hour and a half. Then you can trade the chips for Materials or Fish bags and then sell those. Like I said, not very efficient but you can literally do it in your sleep. The game doesnt seem to like it if you run the slots for too long though lol
Yeah, how long is long? I did it for 5 hours Friday, and I didn't see any problems. (Though even before that, I don't think I experienced problems doing it for like 2-3 hours)
When the update first dropped there was definitely some kind of memory leak in the casino as I would leave it on overnight with an autoclicker and when I came back in the morning it would be slowed to a crawl. Has that been fixed?
Somehow just letting fans farm coins has always been the best farming method for me no matter what else I tried, you literally just go afk 10 minutes and by the time you're back boom, free 300k like wtf
So this mean Auto fishing still remain the best method of holocoins farming. Before, Marine can make 40-50M a 50 minutes run (40 in game but slow down alot when there are too much enemies) while Fishing need some wind up because of the combo (you need to hit like 3k-5k to get the sweet spot), which result in an overnight profit of around 200M-300M of 6 hours. Tbf you don't need that much money anyway, I bought like 800 Usada cups for the Casino, it look pretty funny.
I'm new to the game and I just unlocked all the upgrades, what's the point of continuing to farm coins? Do they update the game quickly to keep spending or what?
I havent updated to avoid the nerf, but still struggle to achieve close to the same results, since I'm just bad. I think the most I got was like 1-3 million in 25 minutes. (Only started playing with the new update) Still think its more fun than mindlessly mining. Though still have to go fishing still since I'm still missing the last rod, so maybe thats fun too. (Think longest chain I had was 110, but it doesnt get faster past 70) though idk if it pays as well as mining, probably not.
I can only see starforce catching in this material grinding method. Weirdly fits tho, a mechanic from the grindiest game from Maplestory to be introduced via the grindmaster Kaela
Outside of using marinen I tried the doll after a long time and it doesnt want to synwergize with prisms at all. Only damage after reduction of the initial hit can be reduced by prism rendering them mostly useless outside the hardest 2 maps. Also the prism doenst at all lower the delayed damage. Its a weird way to balance since with them both the prism never gets used up unless a boss or cannon hits me which would be dumb.
I vastly prefer commissions and gathering. Much more relaxed and while banning items and tiara have made it more consistent, you still get runs where greed only drops at like 15+ mins. Though to be a fair comparison, you should actually include the materials, fish and food in the calculation, which does during stage mode, as you gain them there as well.
Thank you for this!! 🎉🎉 I just wanted to ask though since you limited your weapon purchase what stats did you focus on Marine? Haste and Movement Speed?
@@gamevoyager yeah i mean i know about that. but maybe there is something when we craft like a metal shield that is very wide. i find it quite difficult because when i tap it, sometimes the green/yellow color is not found (so, it's mean a gray). so i have to look for it in a slightly further direction. and when it is slightly further away, it could be that one of the colors like green or yellow has been found, but it wastes the chance to tap it again
Y los mascotas¿? Diría que no me he dedicado 40 minutos sin perder un segundo solo dedicando en alimentar los mascotas, así que no sé cuanto tarda en acabar su comida. Lo cierto es que cada vez lo alimenta, perfectamente puede sacar alrededor de 200k y sale en menos de 10 minutos, eso lo puedo asegurar.
I'm curious, why didn't Risu ever make it as a coin farmer? I was wondering back on patch 6 too, but it seems strange to me that her skill set isn't good for it.
How about Usada casino gambling next? auto clicker slot & genuine play blackjack. Change usadachip into materials and sell those material. i doubt it will make more than other method but it will be an interesting video i think
why don't you choose weapons when leveling up when you don't have the solo stamp? is it for items to show up more frequently? sorry i'm new in coin farming, like i know how to enable that but i don't know the reason why
Yes, it's to limit items and also allow us to max out our build asap. This will lead to stat options on level up, such as HP and Speed, which will allow us to survive 20-40 minutes!
Even if leveling both tools to max is time consuming (its not, I did it within one session like 2-3 hours max) it's a one time investment and everything after that is just straight gains. It should not be factored into the efficiency of farming coins using commissions.
@@Jaxter0987 A whole 2-3hr session of nothing but gathering minigame is very much an undertaking for most people. And the people who are looking for a gold farming method are unlikely to have max the tools out already, so it is a thing they should keep in mind.
There must be some kind of perf limit when youre not even runing the max crit build for marine and you could do 10M in 20m but my laggy shit could never do more tham 3.5M(with or without greed, suffice to say in didnt get greed early in any runs that I won, only have 25m) in that time and 5 minutes extra to kill bosses.
This update is so sad with the insane casino item prices. I get that coin farming was getting out of control but those prices are now feeling much less obtainable
marine and azki not 40 mins, you should counting the laggy and freezetime(level up, anvil, stamps, up stamp) if not your content just for high spec PC :v
again: what do you need this much money for at the end game? also i didn't even interact with the mining game because it's so mind-numbingly boring, somehow worse than fishing
as boring as the mining game is, you can max it in about 2 hrs and it brings almost the same amount of coins as the big coin runners, additionally seeing how op didn't reroll commissions, you might as well do this instead of running in circles at like 2 fps
You say that, but when I found the mining game after launching 0.7 I found myself glued to it and wanting to hit the next axe/pickaxe upgrade immediately. Sometimes all you need to get invested in a simple task is an equally simple goal.
The Greed nerf is tbh a Stupid one born out of not realizing the silliest obvious issue when building such a COIN CENTRIC character as Marine onto the game. Biggest solution for it would be just put a cap on how many coins can be in the field at a given time, serting things to a number that still allows decent farming without becoming a FPS killer. Nerfing Greed is stupid as the only outlier causing the problem was Marine (Because I DOUBT Greed alone would be able of causing such heavy Coin spawn on the other Coin Farmers who lack an Innate method of spawning coins themselves outside said stamp)
I think Kay said this, but the main problem isn't just the stamp, or the character alone, but also the main goal that these players are aiming for : the joke items in the usada casino. He underestimated the players thinking that 'oh this joke item is just a joke, people won't be getting them' while actually most people who likes to achieve everything in their game WILL do it regardless.
@@noii1524 he said he might consider lowering them, but for now he's just restricting the effect on those items on normal stage only, not able to post high score on the leaderboards
@@Pihsrosnec true, but that's a massive difference between grinding for 3-4 runs vs 30-40 runs. He thought these joke items aren't supposed be bought by people. But yea, he underestimated the dedications of certain players
Actually, this comparison is unfair You can just collect areas that only produce high-level materials. But no matter what If you can keep chaining Fishing is still the most profitable
Guess my preference will be sleeping while the autoclicker does the job on the slot machine. Let the machine work & enjoy the rest of the game freely without any fatigue
Never understood why the dev just has to be an ass and nerf the money grind then expect people to grind out trillions of currency. At a certain point just use a trainer and max out money once you've compeleted enough. It aint worth spending a hundred hours rerunning endless and mining and fishing to get those trillions. Dev is basically encouraging alternate ways to cheat the system so just do so the easiest way.
its kind of a shame they nerfed it, especially it relying on getting the stamp, it should have been left alone and then they could have used any excess coins for the casino and stuff, this change alone kinda did push me away from playing any further because i dont want to have to mindlessly suffer the holohouse gold grind anymore
Fun fact btw, when you're low on mining materials for commissions, you can re enter the holo house to refresh all the commission items as many times as you want, sometimes you can get a high reward for less materials
Woah thanks for the advice
@@jimmyjohnjoejrno problem, glad to help some people out
Out of all the coin methods, somehow the “calmest” method stays the hardest for me lol
I do miss the red marker from time to time too lol. The bar even goes beyond the meter sometimes. Luckily the reward for full gathering is just 1 material or so 🙂
yea, because these game mode you can't have a safe build, unlike in the endless game where you can always have the perfect build so you can just focus on dodging the fans. Fishing & smithing requires you to have a full focus on
@@setiadisatria1038not really, with highest level tools you are guaranteed at least 2 materials so you can just skip spamming space bar and keep getting materials while your attention is elsewhere. Besides it is not really that attention intensive like fishing(unless you use a bot)
If you’re using max tools you can just spam if you don’t want to think, you’ll still get 3-5 on average just based on luck
@@anthonynguyen1289 oh, I see, don't have those yet. It's good to have multiple alternatives for farming coins then
It's important to note that the game slow down and timer pause on every selection does add a lot of time. It wouldn't have been wrong to give Kaela 10 extra minutes of grinding, but you really should be tracking Marine's run in real time for an unbiased conclusion.
I was thinking this; RTA (real time attack) Marine’s and AZKi’s timers are probably somewhere closer to an hour (menus + slowdown adds a fair bit of time that’s not accounted for with the in-game timer) and there’s also the time taken doing commissions that’s not added either (though I dunno how meaningful that is; I haven’t done the holohouse stuff personally).
I find the Ckia minigame very relaxing. Great video!
It was so peaceful, that I forgot that I've been grinding for an hour back then.
The critical spot is RED?!?!
just like on the gathering minigame
@@flowwy_there is a gathering game?!
My few first attempt manage get 5 red hit it goes 235% 😂
@@mbhqal8312 the one where you gathermaterials for the comissions?
I thought I had to find green damn
Me : oh well afk fishing and greed stamp got nerfed to the ground i cant get a lot of fish
Also me : fine ill do hardest route, Do Math in casino
Tbf having an auto clicker on the machines give more reward
Tbh if the usachips were exchangeable into coins that would've been so unbelievably good to farm coins easily
@@blux_cross exchange usachip into mats, then sell the mats
@@blux_cross i think kay yu forgot to make exchange usacoin into holocoin
@@pachix3592 Is so funny how you get a win 80% of the times at the slot machine if you just spam Z
I got my jackpots that way
My favorite way is Reine with spicy seafood udon and idol costume.
1.5m coins in 34 min at stage 3 hard, without greed stamp, halu, or any super items.
When I saw ckia's minigame never thought it'll be the new farming place and I thought when doing commissions is hit it when it's green 😂
Actually thought the same thing 🤣
I actually avoided the red spot,I thought that was a bad spot Lmao😅
I thought I could break or something, took me some time to realize that red is the critical spot to hit...
smfh same
BRO I thought you had you had to avoid the red spot when doing comission stuff, dangit! :D
bruh I thought the same and was wondering what the fk am I doing wrong even tho I'm hitting green all the time
I had already crafted all the pickaxes and axes and prisms until I realized I had to hit the red spot, not the green
i just wanna put this out there, the effort needed to sell all those materials, was probably monsterous, so good job!
i retract my statement with my own stupidity of the loop method
I had just finished watching your other video on 0.6 when this got recommended XD
Haha figured I’d do one for 0.7 since people still watch the 0.6 one. Hope this helps!
@gamevoyager Oh for sure! Massive thanks :D
You can also farm coins using the Casino by exchanging for the material bags and selling the materials.
I'm not sure how much coins it could make compare to other method, but I doubt it's as much as the main game and the comission.
I must say, i played Holohouse more often than the main game xD, leveling up workers and manager Lv while im grinding for commissions, sometime fishing for worker's meal.
Woodcutting and mining still at level 7, and manager at level 3, im still have alot to do with this game for next months the fact i just finally download and play Holocure like last 2 week, 30 hours in game.
Hopefully people still post coins runs, even if there isn't as much "Number go up", because they are so much more interesting. As much as leveling up in this minigame scratched that Old School Runescape itch that has been whispering to go back to that game, I definitely wouldn't use it to make actual money.
For a hands-off but rather inefficient method I've been doing sometimes, just get an autoclicker (10ms interval) and go to the casino and let it play the slots. I leave it running while I watch streams and long form youtube videos and make a million usachips in like an hour and a half. Then you can trade the chips for Materials or Fish bags and then sell those.
Like I said, not very efficient but you can literally do it in your sleep. The game doesnt seem to like it if you run the slots for too long though lol
Yeah there seems to be a memory leak or something because the lag after a long slots session becomes unbearable...
Wasn't the memory leak fixed recently, or does it just take much longer to happen now? Cos previously you could even start feeling it within 30 mins.
Yeah, how long is long? I did it for 5 hours Friday, and I didn't see any problems. (Though even before that, I don't think I experienced problems doing it for like 2-3 hours)
I haven't tried this recently, but it sounds like they did fix the memory leak according to the guy above. That's pretty nice
When the update first dropped there was definitely some kind of memory leak in the casino as I would leave it on overnight with an autoclicker and when I came back in the morning it would be slowed to a crawl. Has that been fixed?
Somehow just letting fans farm coins has always been the best farming method for me no matter what else I tried, you literally just go afk 10 minutes and by the time you're back boom, free 300k like wtf
I'll try this tonight! Thanks!
So this mean Auto fishing still remain the best method of holocoins farming. Before, Marine can make 40-50M a 50 minutes run (40 in game but slow down alot when there are too much enemies) while Fishing need some wind up because of the combo (you need to hit like 3k-5k to get the sweet spot), which result in an overnight profit of around 200M-300M of 6 hours. Tbf you don't need that much money anyway, I bought like 800 Usada cups for the Casino, it look pretty funny.
I thought Green was Good and Red was Dead for the Commissions minigame, guess I didn't read it right the first time.
I'm new to the game and I just unlocked all the upgrades, what's the point of continuing to farm coins? Do they update the game quickly to keep spending or what?
I think it’s an obsession at this point…
got it, I feel like I will go the same way,thanks for answering
Usada Casino sells permanent upgrades by 7,777,777 coins each. Have you unlocked them all?
Only reason you're farming that much coins at that point is to buy those expensive cups in the casino.
its mostly for maniacs who want to 100% the game as fast as possible, and not just let it be a slow burn.
I havent updated to avoid the nerf, but still struggle to achieve close to the same results, since I'm just bad. I think the most I got was like 1-3 million in 25 minutes. (Only started playing with the new update)
Still think its more fun than mindlessly mining. Though still have to go fishing still since I'm still missing the last rod, so maybe thats fun too. (Think longest chain I had was 110, but it doesnt get faster past 70) though idk if it pays as well as mining, probably not.
I got 1.6m when I fished for 36 minutes last time with the golden rod. Could be more or less depending on your luck with golds~
OMG IVE BEEN HITTING THE GREEN SPOT ALL THIS TIME THINKING IT WAS THE GOOD ONE
I can only see starforce catching in this material grinding method. Weirdly fits tho, a mechanic from the grindiest game from Maplestory to be introduced via the grindmaster Kaela
Outside of using marinen I tried the doll after a long time and it doesnt want to synwergize with prisms at all. Only damage after reduction of the initial hit can be reduced by prism rendering them mostly useless outside the hardest 2 maps. Also the prism doenst at all lower the delayed damage. Its a weird way to balance since with them both the prism never gets used up unless a boss or cannon hits me which would be dumb.
I was new when the update came out and in a single day i got everything with mining lol
I vastly prefer commissions and gathering. Much more relaxed and while banning items and tiara have made it more consistent, you still get runs where greed only drops at like 15+ mins.
Though to be a fair comparison, you should actually include the materials, fish and food in the calculation, which does during stage mode, as you gain them there as well.
Here is me watching a video comparing about Marine, Azki, And Ckia farm method
while i still farm the coins with Reine
Thank you for this!! 🎉🎉
I just wanted to ask though since you limited your weapon purchase what stats did you focus on Marine? Haste and Movement Speed?
Got crit to 100% first then focused on Haste and Speed!
@@gamevoyager
gotcha. thank you!
For a fresh save, the mining minigame at least lets me get enough funds to get all my stats maxed out without drinking Halu
All this time i'm searching for green hit lol
If didn't sell material and use for commission in griding long run I think It may beat Marine?
i hope there is any tips about how to easy find a red spot in commisison.. hehe
It goes like this:
Gray = very far, green = close, yellow = very close
I just base from these indicators~
@@gamevoyager yeah i mean i know about that. but maybe there is something when we craft like a metal shield that is very wide. i find it quite difficult because when i tap it, sometimes the green/yellow color is not found (so, it's mean a gray). so i have to look for it in a slightly further direction. and when it is slightly further away, it could be that one of the colors like green or yellow has been found, but it wastes the chance to tap it again
Y los mascotas¿? Diría que no me he dedicado 40 minutos sin perder un segundo solo dedicando en alimentar los mascotas, así que no sé cuanto tarda en acabar su comida. Lo cierto es que cada vez lo alimenta, perfectamente puede sacar alrededor de 200k y sale en menos de 10 minutos, eso lo puedo asegurar.
how to find that tiara?
It doesnt show up on the wiki
Sell 10 stamps in a run to unlock
This is the RuneScape experience
I'm curious, why didn't Risu ever make it as a coin farmer? I was wondering back on patch 6 too, but it seems strange to me that her skill set isn't good for it.
She was good but didn’t proc greed as good as AZKi.
How about Usada casino gambling next? auto clicker slot & genuine play blackjack. Change usadachip into materials and sell those material. i doubt it will make more than other method but it will be an interesting video i think
nice info bro
why don't you choose weapons when leveling up when you don't have the solo stamp? is it for items to show up more frequently?
sorry i'm new in coin farming, like i know how to enable that but i don't know the reason why
Yes, it's to limit items and also allow us to max out our build asap. This will lead to stat options on level up, such as HP and Speed, which will allow us to survive 20-40 minutes!
@gamevoyager got it, thanks :D
How do you find the red spot? Is it just trial and error, and just hoping you hit it?
Pretty much, yeah
You also know you're getting closer with the colors. Gray = far, green = close, yellow = very close I believe
With absolute wall you can spin it for multiple hit
how do you get the Tiara? I can't find out how to get it
Sell 10 stamps in a run to unlock!
Did you factor in the material you get from doing the run? Leveling both tools to max also seems time-consuming.
Even if leveling both tools to max is time consuming (its not, I did it within one session like 2-3 hours max) it's a one time investment and everything after that is just straight gains. It should not be factored into the efficiency of farming coins using commissions.
@@Jaxter0987 A whole 2-3hr session of nothing but gathering minigame is very much an undertaking for most people.
And the people who are looking for a gold farming method are unlikely to have max the tools out already, so it is a thing they should keep in mind.
There must be some kind of perf limit when youre not even runing the max crit build for marine and you could do 10M in 20m but my laggy shit could never do more tham 3.5M(with or without greed, suffice to say in didnt get greed early in any runs that I won, only have 25m) in that time and 5 minutes extra to kill bosses.
Ohh, You don't use a piggy bank
why the commission has a bonus?
If you up the quality by hitting the right spot, it gives you a nice bonus
@@gamevoyager what indicates the right spot?
Red spot gives the most quality
@@gamevoyager ah I see, thank you
Does your runs use the max marketing or no?
Yup, always! Gives more xp, anvils and coins.
@gamevoyager alright thanks
I restarted my save prior to 0.7, thanks god i able to farm couple millions before its nerfed
I still have not updated to this day and just farming coins
@@enviinv for what tho?
@@su1thor760 just farming coins since it's not like there is anything new after the patch update so might as well just get as much coins possible now
This update is so sad with the insane casino item prices. I get that coin farming was getting out of control but those prices are now feeling much less obtainable
marine and azki not 40 mins, you should counting the laggy and freezetime(level up, anvil, stamps, up stamp)
if not your content just for high spec PC :v
what do you MEAN greed stamp was nerfed-
thank you very much. Very relevant video, today I was looking for the best way to earn money
again: what do you need this much money for at the end game?
also i didn't even interact with the mining game because it's so mind-numbingly boring, somehow worse than fishing
We wanna get scam items at the Usada Casino 😂
Also just wanted to update a guide from more than a year ago~
There wasn't a reason before but now there's some "scammy item" you can purchase in UsadaCasino and each of it cost 7.8M
as boring as the mining game is, you can max it in about 2 hrs and it brings almost the same amount of coins as the big coin runners, additionally seeing how op didn't reroll commissions, you might as well do this instead of running in circles at like 2 fps
You say that, but when I found the mining game after launching 0.7 I found myself glued to it and wanting to hit the next axe/pickaxe upgrade immediately.
Sometimes all you need to get invested in a simple task is an equally simple goal.
@@ransan you do have a point but for me personally it was a grind and a half and most of it were the levels
question..
Do you use cooking dish that fans drop 30% more holocoins?
Yup. Got it on auto!
@@gamevoyager i see, thx!
The Greed nerf is tbh a Stupid one born out of not realizing the silliest obvious issue when building such a COIN CENTRIC character as Marine onto the game.
Biggest solution for it would be just put a cap on how many coins can be in the field at a given time, serting things to a number that still allows decent farming without becoming a FPS killer.
Nerfing Greed is stupid as the only outlier causing the problem was Marine (Because I DOUBT Greed alone would be able of causing such heavy Coin spawn on the other Coin Farmers who lack an Innate method of spawning coins themselves outside said stamp)
I think Kay said this, but the main problem isn't just the stamp, or the character alone, but also the main goal that these players are aiming for : the joke items in the usada casino. He underestimated the players thinking that 'oh this joke item is just a joke, people won't be getting them' while actually most people who likes to achieve everything in their game WILL do it regardless.
@@setiadisatria1038 Doubt they were a main reason behind nerf, as he also said that he's going to lower the prices of those items
@@setiadisatria1038that wouldn't make any sense though. That just means people will spend more time grinding
@@noii1524 he said he might consider lowering them, but for now he's just restricting the effect on those items on normal stage only, not able to post high score on the leaderboards
@@Pihsrosnec true, but that's a massive difference between grinding for 3-4 runs vs 30-40 runs. He thought these joke items aren't supposed be bought by people. But yea, he underestimated the dedications of certain players
azki is for maining not for greed farming
Isn't finishing the best if U don't lose?
Fishing is slightly higher, yep!
Actually, this comparison is unfair
You can just collect areas that only produce high-level materials.
But no matter what
If you can keep chaining
Fishing is still the most profitable
I'm so bad at fishing 😔
Money! I love money
Guess my preference will be sleeping while the autoclicker does the job on the slot machine. Let the machine work & enjoy the rest of the game freely without any fatigue
Honestly I don’t no why they even nerfed greed. Who cares if people get a ton of coins.
i hope they reverse it because 99% of players play this casually and dont do it min maxing
Never understood why the dev just has to be an ass and nerf the money grind then expect people to grind out trillions of currency.
At a certain point just use a trainer and max out money once you've compeleted enough. It aint worth spending a hundred hours rerunning endless and mining and fishing to get those trillions. Dev is basically encouraging alternate ways to cheat the system so just do so the easiest way.
its kind of a shame they nerfed it, especially it relying on getting the stamp, it should have been left alone and then they could have used any excess coins for the casino and stuff, this change alone kinda did push me away from playing any further because i dont want to have to mindlessly suffer the holohouse gold grind anymore
but you never have to grind if you're just playing the game normally? like wtf are you grinding for?