Fear the Old Lore - Astel, Spawn of Darkness & the Primeval Current
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In this episode of Fear the Old Lore, we make an in-depth examination of Astel, Naturalborn of the Void, glintstone sorceries, and the primeval current in Elden Ring, comparing their English and Japanese translations for more insight into their lore.
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The translation of Astel's name may be directly from GRRM. He uses the terms "bastard" and "natural born" interchangeably in ASOIAF.
how does "natural born" mean bastard?
@@blakebailey22 As opposed to Trueborn. A child had in wedlock is a trueborn child, outside of wedlock is natural born (aka a bastard)
That's a good point. The Japanese may not always be the most correct interpretation with Elden Ring thanks to GRRM's contributions.
@@blakebailey22 it's a 14th century euphemism
@@BS-lk3jg this is correct. It was simply a nice, acceptable way of saying a child was born as a bastard
Just pointing this out, but Astel has a pretty easily documented life cycle: Eyeless Falling Star Beast > Eyed Falling Star Beast > Malformed Star > Astel. The literally mimic an insects life cycle with the Beasts being predatory Larva, the Malformed being a transitional pupa stage, and Astel being a final adult form. You don't find the Malformed near meteors because the Beast moves to a safer location before becoming immobilized. It's why the Malformed are all in hard to reach places (generally someplace you have to climb), just like a pupating insect they seek a safe location before entering the stage of life they're most vulnerable. They very specifically remind me of Myrmeleontidae, they even look a lot like them visually.
Also "Natural Born" is a nicer way to say Bastard in some places and is used by Martin so that might be his influence showing.
Yea that area it went to reminds me of an insect looking for a safe place to have babies, I wonder what's up with the blue glowing fungi looking stuff near it. Is it another fungus fighting the rot?
👍🏾
Where is it stated that Astel and the star beasts are the same creature? The "Full grown" star Beast would be an Astel type creature if that were true. or it would not be "Full Grown" They may be a similar type of creature but they pretty clearly aren't the same.
@@Upsideround There are analysis of their models and the implication all over. Pretty sure both Vaati and Zullie have done them. Look at those if you want to learn the why's of it.
The full grown one is just one right on the edge of becoming a Malformed Star. The only difference between it and a normal Star Beast is it's a little bigger and _it has Astel's eye_ beginning to show through it's skull.
@@Upsideroundit uses similar attacks has the same pincers the same tail end you can see astels skull coming through the head of the falling star beast its obvious if you pay attention.
I always thought that the fallingstar beasts just borrow underground and eventually hang from their tails, transforming into the rockslinging mini-astels.
From what I understand, the Stars predate all that exists within the world of Elden Ring, where the Stars exist as a pure incarnation of fate, life, and souls. Some souls in the void were more powerful than others and were the outer gods. Some souls migrated to the physical world and seemed to become at once defined, finite, and diminished. This diminishing through incarnation is a running theme in Elden Ring as all those powers beyond the world which become a part of the world gain the weakness of that world. The Outer God of Rot was killed by the Blind Swordsman, the Fell God is physically invested in the Fire Giants and its reach is thus limited. The Formless Mother lacks form, but she does act through servants. The best example of this is the Greater Will and the Elden Beast, as the Elden Beast is a limited vassal for the Outer God that can be killed and permanently destroyed, much like Astel. I suspect that Astel being "malformed" is indicative of him being a manifestation of an improperly formed Outer God.
Also, any descendants of the servants the outer gods have that born with divine blood seem to have its power lost after several generations. Like how the ancient dragon's children became weaker than them and turned into the weak elemental wyverns we fight in pretty much every area. those made to replicate their power, using their blood and or parts of their body, such as magma wyrms and dragonkin soldiers also seem to have this curse of being weaker than their predecessors. Another example is godrick, he seems to be godwyns son or is least his descendant and he ends up being really weak and hardly a demigod. Finger reader Enia herself even says that godrick's golden blood is sorely diluted and that he is merely a distant relative to marika
As a great prophet once said: "Amber is the color of your energy." Whoa oh..
I think some Tarnished like Boggart and Rogier were led to the Lands Between to fulfil the Greater Will's objective and we're abandoned when they weren't useful anymore. It's the same thing that happened to Godfrey he was divested of his grace once all his enemies were slain.
Yes, then brought by the Greater Will in a desperate attempt to stop The Tarnished.
@@colorpg152 Grace led Godfrey back to the Lands Between, and towards us, the Tarnished, to stop us.
@@colorpg152 Maybe it doesn't want us to kill its vassal, the Elden Beast - or maybe it doesn't mind, but it simply wants the most worthy to take the throne of Elden Lord and that's why it leads us and Godfrey to each other, it wants us to duel to the death before we enter the Erdtree?
@@LDillon Who brings the Tarnished back is Marika,she is alo the one who guides them
It could be that the Nox’s despair caused them to do something that spawned the eternal darkness, similar to how the merchant tribe summoned the frenzied flame through a chant.
Astel’s cosmic/gravity/teleportation powers can be used to explain a lot of the vague info surrounding it, and the two Astels could even be the same being teleporting around to find you.
Astel could have called more of its kind to the lands b/t, who travelled through space and later crashed on the surface.
“Astel” could be a name/title used by fully grown members of its species, which explains the difference in name between the two we encounter
Astel residing in Anix Tunnel makes sense since Astrologers who came before sorcerers used to be up there (sword of Night and Flame, Stargazing Ruins/Albinauric Rise). Crystallians are also in close with primeval current and they also protect their tunnels.
turtle pope keeps saying that "all things can be conjoined" which i interpret as turtle pope saying that the nature of elden ring's world is essentially syncretic, so absolutely there should be a common thread between apparently disparate things, like the nox and the golden order or astel and the elden beast and likely it's indeed the cosmos
"This enemy is so cool, it's a giant swarm of planets and galaxies and like a skeleton serpent all in one! What kind of creature is it, what's it's name?"
GRRM: I call it 'Bastard'
The deeper sorceries seem akin to a mad science. Topics of body swapping, soul swapping, conjoining forms, sounds like the mad Alchemy you’d expect to see from Full Metal Alchemist😭
And this could parallel the mad religion that faith incantations delves into. The two or three fingers, the bloody fingers , the dragons. It’s all ppl clinging deeply to their blind faith to that brand of Magic
To me, it seems that while incantations delve into faith of a particular god (which are often referred to as stars a lot), sorceries delve require intelligence to understand a SEA of stars.
Seeing as it can take to much devoutness to understand the Magic’s and mechanics of one god. It makes sense that in trying to understand what counts possibly be a sea of gods, sorcerers go insane.
Maybe the universe is just one big sea of gods and stars.
Man this was one mind-boggling episode to digest lol.
While I could guess at the connection between the Astels and the Elden Beast simply because they both supposedly came from the Cosmos, I could never have imagined the possibility that the arrival of the Elden Beast to the Lands Between occurred due to the discovery of Rain of Stars. That just threw me for a loop and added so many wrinkles to the story.
This is one of those instances where I wish the timeline of events in Elden Ring was made a bit more clear, since Faram Azula makes it confusing as to when the Elden Ring arrived to the Lands Between and when the Greater Will became the dominant Outer God. Due to the presence of Ancient Dragons in Faram Azula, the mention of Beasts gaining intelligence, and most importantly, the depiction of a more fleshed out Elden Ring in Maliketh's boss arena really makes me question this notion that Founding Rain of Stars is what brought the Elden Beast to the Lands Between.
Elden Star's item description makes it sound like the arrival of the Elden Beast to the Lands Between was a deliberate action made by the Greater Will, rather than an accidental summoning. Plus, the Dragon's were around way before the Erdtree, and their red lightning is said to have traces of gold, which meant it didn't contradict the Golden Order or the Greater Will. If the Elden Ring we see in Maliketh's arena was the same one that existed in Faram Azula during Placidusax's reign, then it would be odd how the discovery of Rain of Stars was what led to the Elden Ring being found.
In regards to how the Nox were banished by the Greater Will, wasn't it more likely that the reason for their banishment was due to the creation of the Finger-Slayer Blade that we would then give to Ranni? Both the Finger-Slayer Blade and the Sacred Relic Sword share similar designs with what appear to be a skeleton forged into them. Since Radagon's body was used to create the Sacred Relic Sword, and the Finger-Slayer Blade could harm the Greater Will and it's vassals, could this have been the reason for their banishment? They tried to create a Lord of Night (or Elden Lord), failed, and maybe then created the Finger-Slayer Blade? This results in their banishment by the Greater Will underground, and their despair at their banishment would eventually lead to Astel being summoned and destroying the Eternal City in the Deeproot Depths?
Speaking of Astel, if I'm analyzing this correctly, does his Japanese name then indicate that he did NOT originate from the cosmos? I assumed that he crashed down from above, since Zullie found cut content where Astel would actually crash down in Radahn's arena. So did the Nox's despair create Astel, or did their despair create a portal to which Astel came through from the cosmos (aka "darkness") and then attacked and destroyed the Eternal City?
And if I'm understanding this correctly, does this mean that the "stars" mentioned in Elden Ring's cosmology aren't necessarily the bodies of gas we know in actual astronomy, but are instead clumps of souls, which is why their remnants and shards contain life within? Is this the reason how the stars could tell or manipulate fate, and why arresting them stopped Ranni from finding the Eternal City and accomplishing her fate?
Anyway, incredible video! Really hope we get more DLC for Elden Ring that can expand more on the Primeval Current and the Gloam Eyed Queen!
Wow, that's a lot to respond to! I do want to be clear, while it's _possible_ to read Founding Rain of Stars this way, it's still ultimately left open to interpretation. One thing I've wondered irt the dragons and denizens of the Lands Between is if the "gold" was always present within the Lands, but the Erdtree and whatnot began to siphon it off for itself once the Elden Ring landed.
The Nox are ambiguous, as always, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were punished by the GW in part for "evading" the cycle of Erdtree burial and rebirth by bodyswapping.
I don't want to say Astel's name indicates he _didn't_ come from the cosmos, but just that he's more firmly aligned with the dark, and Eternal Darkness' description implies that it's what led to Astel destroying their city/cities.
The final point about the stars and fate may be correct, but cannot be confirmed because it would literally kill Miyazaki to have Actual Factual information in one of his games.
@@LastProtagonist Sorry, didn’t mean to unload all that onto you! The Primeval Current and it’s connections to the Cosmos is one of my favorite lore pieces in Elden Ring, and your video really got my brain moving with all the lore mentioned and your theories!
I just assumed that the “Darkness” that Astel came from meant the Cosmos since his body seems to be made of planets, his attacks use Nebulae, and I often hear about the Cosmos being personified as a dark void in other literature.
That’s a really interesting idea, that the “Gold” used by the Dragons and Beastmen was always present until the Elden Beast arrived and with the Erdtree siphoning it for itself. I believe you mentioned in a previous video the possibility that the Erdtree might be parasitic in nature? Sekiro Dubi did a free cam of the Erdtree and saw random streaks of gold coming off from the Golden branches latching onto regular wood, which might lend credence to that idea.
Really awesome video you did for the Primeval Current and the Gloam-Eyed Queen! Here’s hoping Gamescom might show off any potential DLC for Elden Ring!
Hyetta, when quoting the Three Fingers, says that the coming of birth and souls is a mistake of the Greater Will. So the arrival of a golden star on earth can be a local analogue of the primordial soup, from which life subsequently appeared. It seems that gold is the primordial soup. The Crucible Knights set description says that crucible of life is the primordial form of the Erdtree. And in the description of the sword of Ordovis, that its red tint exemplifies the nature of primordial gold, said to be close in nature to life itself.
By the way, dragon lightning, which is also imbued with gold (Gravel Stone Seal description), also has this red tint. This also explains why Placidusax is called the Elden Lord and why there is an image of the Elden Ring in Farum Azula.
It is also still not clear what the Greater Will is. Often I hear that it is called the Outer God, but I do not remember a single time that the Greater Will in the game was called even just a god. There are three confirmed Outer Gods in the game as far as I know.
- Formless Mother (Mohgwyn's Sacred Spear description)
- God of Twinbird (The twinbird is said to be the envoys of the outer god in the description of Twinbird Kite Shield),
- Outer God of Rot (Scorpion's Stinger)
Interestingly, Elden Ring also has a Bloody Rune, a Rune of Rot, and a Rune of Death. All three confirmed outer Gods have their Rune in the Elden Ring, while the Greater Will, who was never called a god, is the one from whom came birth, souls, and also the Elden Ring itself.
There is also a designation for an Ancient God, which is most likely an alternative name for an Outer God.
- Flame of Frenzy (Fingerprint Stone Shield description)
- Fell God of Giants - ancient god of the flame (Fire Monk Armor)
- Ancient god - a god that was Rot itself (Blue Dancer Charm)
All of them have their own element.
- Flame of Frenzy
- God of Twinbird - Black Flame (Destined Death?)
- Outer/Ancient God of Rot - Scarlet Rot/Poison (poison also applies to the incantations of servants of rot)
- Formless Mother - Blood
- Fell God - Flame
Then, it turns out that the element of the Greater Will is Gold? In that case, Miquella's Unalloyed Gold is also related to the Greater Will?
@@Xgenstudioz777 It can be argued the Greater Will's element is the yellow-gold of the Golden Order since it's what Radagon advances and what Enia says the Fingers want us to restore. Miquella's unalloyed gold may be more similar in matter to that of the Crucible, but it's unclear as usual.
It might be a little dangerous to trust Hyetta since we know the Three Fingers, or at least its vassals, are deliberately deceptive with Shabriri. Hyetta might fully believe in the Three Fingers, but with all its other followers literally going crazy, it could be a pretty big indicator we'd need to be crazy to believe her as well.
As I said before, it's clear there existed a time before the Erdtree and the Elden Ring, so I don't believe the Greater Will is responsible for all life. One thing I've wondered is whether all the runes of the Elden Ring came from previously defeated gods or lords, but that makes the timeline of the Elden Ring even MORE confusing, lol
@@LastProtagonist Followers of the Frenzied Flame at least explicitly acknowledge their purpose. They want to correct the mistake of the Greater Will, get rid of birth and make everything one again. They say outright that they want to get rid of birth and souls, which doesn't sound like a motivating lie to me to attribute the creation of life to the Greater Will. We are repeatedly told that gold is the source of life, and again, the Greater Will, according to the descriptions of the Elden Stars, sent a golden star to earth. In addition, in the ending of Frenzied Flame, can also pay attention that it is all the gold that burns out.
Shades of Gold is also quite an interesting topic. Erdtree's color changes depending on which Runes form the Elden Ring. When we release the sealed Rune of Death, Erdtree returns to his red hue. And in all Elden Lord endings, when we add new Runes to the Elden Ring, Erdtree also changes its color. I would also like to draw attention to the colors of the remembrance that we get from the bosses and the fact that the color of the remembrance of Elden, which has the same shade of gold as that of Maliketh, but this gold is different from the demigods of the Golden Order.
The description of Elden's memory states that the beast is a living incarnation of the concept of Order. The Golden Order is just one of its forms, it is based on the principle that Marika is the one true God (not the Greater Will and not even the Fingers, whose incantations Corhyn calls heresy) and was implemented in such a way that the Rune of Death was torn from the Elden Ring (from the words of Enia and the description of the Rune of the Death-Prince). The Elden theme as a whole comes from the Greater Will (again with the Elden Beast who flew on the Elden Star, we get remembrance of Elden). Plasidusax is called the Elden Lord and there is an image of the Elden Ring in Farum Azula. That is, this is already the time when the Elden Ring was on earth. However, Placidusax to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree. The color of his remembrance has the same Crucible red hue. And the Crucible, as indicated in the description of the armor of the crucible knights, this is the Erdtree itself in its primordial form. In my opinion, everything points to the fact that gold, crucible and dragons come from the Greater Will.
At least, what clearly indicates the time before the Elden Ring? Maybe spirits and ancestors. It is also an interesting thought that the conflict between the Greater Will and Noxes could be a conflict between gold (natural life) and silver (artificial life).
It's also slightly ironic that Wilhelm is one of the only sorcerers that glimpsed the primeval current and didn't go mad.
Some Sorcerers are just built different.
Primeval current, chromatic amalgamation, Morgott's blade, glintstone coloration, the Crucible. Hmmmmmmm🤔🤔🤔
@Charles Hastings Sellen describes both Glintstone and Golden Amber to be different types of 'Amber,' so there is a connection.
@Charles Hastings I doubt that Radagon is even "alive"
@Charles Hastings Radagon is probably the most devoted of anyone who believes in the greater will, and he has his own incantations we can’t use which could imply he doesn’t even need to pray as his devotion is so strong
I just feel like even if merica says that radagon has yet to become god he is still part of her and in the case with her being a god than why would he need to pray considering he has a gods power flowing through his body therefore negating any reason for him to pray like everyone else at least with incantations I understand him having to learn sorceries but I’m sure even before he realizes it that incantations probably have always just come natural
Spectacular work as always my man. We are grateful for your work
This makes so much sense now. Thanks for clearing this up! We find the Onyx people and Starfallen creatures (Including that one Astel in the tunnel) next to a meteorite with golden/amber glow and golden amber contains the remnants of life, those people and creatures.
So there´s a big difference between the Astels. The one in the tunnel was born from a meteorite and the one who destroyed the Deep Root City has a different origin, as implied by its name. It was probably summoned from the eternal darkness but as the japanese name "Bastard" implies, it probably has a second component to its upbringing. I like the theory that it was summoned by a vassal of the Elden Beast or the Elden Beast itself so that it may conquer the Great Tree, subdue the powerful Numen who lived in Deep Root and also choose a vessel for the Elden Ring from their ranks (Marika).
I have always been a fan(atic) of the universe and the unfathomable beauty of stars and nebulae.
Elden Ring allows me to use magics based on stars. What a treat.
As a huge fan of Lovecraft as is in Vogue nowadays I was pleasantly surprised to see that sort of influence creeping in with Elden ring
After bloodborne I figured we wouldn't get that kind of story again but I am quite happy to be proven wrong and I'm also happy for those less interested in cosmic monsters that there's plenty of story aside from that to latch onto
Great video mate thank you
I think you’re the only content creator who I’ve never turned off notifications for. And as someone who uses youtube videos primarily as background noise: your videos always get my full attention. Keep up the great work!
Keep up the great work.
Keep up the great work.
I always thought of glintstone as like prisms through which stars can shine out of the cosmos, and casting sorceries is summoning little stars, which live out little lives and then crash and die. I wonder if astel isn't the result of a powerful, terrible sorcery being cast? One so powerful that it let in more than a reflection.
Thanks a bunch for this
Mistranslations make the lore way more obtuse
Honestly all 3 games; demons, dark, blood ,(some of sekiro) and even twin peaks follow this same path/story in major parts, outside sources can make u look back at things you don't get. Possibly inspired by too
Man, I'm soooo THIRSTY for that DLC!!
"Maybe it's our lot in life. To suffer."
I mean, I'm pretty sure the graven school / mass is essentially just an elaborate Katamari Damacy joke.
My guess is the difference between fallen star beasts and astels is astels can move their core, the fallen star. Fallen star beasts are bound to the location they fall upon.
As to the significance of amber...well, if you see sap as the blood and/or life force of a tree then anything that crystalizes life force is "amber". Thus why we seem to have many different colors of such amber. The source is different for each stone. Most of such from the stars is teal or blue. That from trees is of course a yellowish color. And there is even some that is red, said to be formed of human blood.
I do not believe the sorcery eternal darkness created or spawned the astral in question but rather summoned it. I do not see the theft of the starry sky of the box as coincidental. This was a being that could not return to its home so of course it would try to stave off some of the home sickness by mimicking that home. So to my mind the sorcery probably acts as a portal to a random bit of the darker cosmos...but an astel just happened by at the wrong moment and was either pulled by the nature of the spell or was enticed by the strange sights on the other side. Either way the spell was not intended to stay open indefinitely and the place that astel came from was lost to it. Enraged and saddened it destroyed those that brought it there and stole their night sky to make itself feel better.
I think the Astel also "carried" the other outer gods as if they were a foreign disease. That's why one is in close proximity to the lake of rot, and the yelough anix ruins
I very much doubt that astel carried the outer god of the frenzied flame. According to Hyetta, the greater will borrowed something (probably power) from the outer god of the frenzied flame, which would indicate that the frenzied flame is a even bigger/extremely powerful outer god than the Greater will.
@@AlextheGreat647 there's also a theory that the greater will and frenzied flame were once one whole being, and that something happened that made the two separate from each other.
@@liamzakhaev Yea I recently heard of it. But that’s mostly speculation really. There’s another theory that it’s the greater will borrowing from a being called “the one great” who is chaos itself.
@@AlextheGreat647 greater will and frenzied flame being part of the same being makes much more sense, especially when miyazaki likes naive dialectical systems, think of them like the ying and yang, chaos and order. incidentally, fire and dark.
My canon is: the one great divided itself into its body, will and soul. The body is the universe and its matter, the will is the greater will and the soul is the primeval current, giving life to stars guiding fate. Thats why the greater will can guide souls, but not make them.
Your videos are helping me more than all other creators, you focus on the game and not its inspiration, you are where its at.
Holy shit, everything just clicked for me. The name itself the lands between, glintstone being the amber, the Primeval current, the Erdtree burials, the stone mural outside the entrance to the Erdtree. Man seriously message me because I have a theory that I think you can make in to content. I sure as well know I'm not going to.
Late to the party but this video got me thinking.
Astel is a parasitic wasp in design. Winged, six legged, and a stinger with a very long reach.
Parasitic wasps like this, what they do is they take their stinger and drill through a tree trunk to another insect that gestates in the core of a tree. They inject their eggs into the defenseless insect, paralyzing it in the process for it to become food for the growing wasp spawn.
There are two Astel in the game. One at the base of the Erdtree, the other on the path to the Haligtree. My guess is both were attracted by the attempts at growing trees and wishing to lay eggs within the base of the trees. One was dragged down the waters to the lowest part of the known world, the other is trapped within a blinding snowfield disconnected from the Haligtree.
Not sure if any of this is relevant, but Astel is DEFINITELY a cosmic parasitic wasp.
Love your content, and really appreciate your work on translations. It has really bolstered a lot of the storytelling in this game (and past FS titles), and love seeing your translations pop up in other content creators videos too.
Astel is related to the Onyx Lord's in some way. They both use meteorite spells and the Onyx Lords came to life after a meteorite struck.
The Raya Lucaria Sorcerer's magic does not come from meteorites or Astel. Glintstone sorceries are quite different from the magic Astel uses. Also, Glintstone appears to just grow out of the lake of Liurnia. The crystal you find in caves with meteorites is described as "low quality."
The Nameless Eternal City was most likely sent underground by the Golden meteorite which carried the Elden Beast, since you find the Elden Stars spell nearby. You do find ruins of Nox structures in Nokstella, in the area to the right with the two monks, so I think the other Eternal Cities could have also been struck by meteorites. I think the Nox rebuilt their cities, which is why you don't see many ruins.
I think the Nox tried to summon something from the Darkness that would help them fight the Greater Will, and that's how it entered the City and leveled it when they couldn't control it. The Malformed Stars might be failed attempts to give it material form. They were trying to bring forth their own "Elden Beast" to bring about their eternal night, they were very desperate to bring about something to help them fight, evidenced by their creation of the Silver Tears and the Dragonkin.
I wouldn’t read too much into glintstone being called the “amber of the stars”, personally. I think Sellen is just making an analogy. Deceased in the Lands Between typically get absorbed into the Erdtree, so the Erdtree’s sap- which can harden into a golden amber- contains the remnants of these deceased. Separately, Glintstone houses residual life from the stars in a similar manner. I don’t think Glintstone and Golden Amber are meant to be variations of the same substance.
Your're overlooking fact that the Elden Beast the source of the Erdtree is a star itself. The nature of Golden Amber and Glintstone being similar is far from just analogous.
A fun food for thought: We know that the stars hold the fate of one's existence. The amber starlight (and all starlights for the matter) are passing flashes of stars. It is a residue of that which holds the power of fate. So when the elden beast came down, it probably left the golden amber that we can collect, and thus in a way brought not only grace to the lands between but CREATED a fate for gods to be born into.
Dude this video is AMAZING!
Really good job on the vid!
The biggest Red Hairrings in Elden Ring are Radagon and the Fire Giants...
Hello, I'm here from smough town. I love seeing how different the story of these games can be based on translation. I can't help but feel I missed out on the "real" lore due to only speaking English. It makes me wonder how skilled a lot of translators actually are. This is great stuff so thank you
When you zoomed in, the faces of Azur and Lusat vaguely look like the face of an astel. A pale, boney sort of look. I quite like the idea that Astel might be an artificial creation from the Nox's failed attempt at creating a Lord.
You put a lot of thought into this.
Great stuff!
This is highly speculative but I do hope a developer with the storyline gets a hold of this
Radaghan is red like the crucible is red-gold maybe Marika is the manifestation that took over him?
Just wanted to point out you can reach Ainsel River main from the Deeproot Depths. There's a coffin by the Nameless Eternal City grace that takes you down. Thats at least a vague connection from Deeproot to Astel.
Edit: typos
I really hope ER gets more DLC than one. Like they have created so many mysteries that one "hey you're in the badlands now" would be such a let down. I really hope they flesh out more time and endings because I honestly feel like they wasted a lot of time and effort on some pretty insignificant people (Dungeater? A mad serial killer who shows up in four dialogues get their own ending at the cost of fleshing out Nox' snd Caelid world was a mistake.
Hey Last, glad to see a lore video from Elden Ring that isn't Vaati. Pretty cool video, by all accounts. And like someone already said, the word 'Naturalborn' can be construed as a more polite word for 'bastard'.
The erd tree and the elden ring aren’t synonymous the erd tree came about after marika and is gold there is red ancient gold of the dragons since the worship of dragons doesn’t clash with the golden order also placidusax was an elden lord meaning consort to the vessel of the elden ring and the imagery in faraam azula suggest that it was built around the elden ring so it is very likely that the arrival of the elden beast is the first point in the timeline of elden ring
''-If Glinstones are the vessel of life, and amber is the soul of life...'' That is the type of sorceries that Radagon-Marika would wish to learn in the academy. I'll guess that's why Radagon married Rennala. To learn the secret on how to materialise a soul into a pure vessel. I mean Radagon-Marika got the amber fron the Erdtree, but failed to birth a proper Empyrean. That's why he-she left Rennala after Ranni's birth. She finally knew how to make Empyreans. And that's also how Miquella and Malenia were created I think.
I remember a video (from Zullie, I think. Could be wrong), that showed Astel with Radahn's meteor animation. So there could be a time where Astel was originally suppose to crash down either during or after Radahn.
..vero nox,, I fear night from ds1 makes me think of this and a LOT of Bloodborne kinda makes more sense too giving me ideas I didn't think before..
I'm not sure the difference between starlight shards and amber starlight is so fundamental. Bearers of starlight shards can hold influence over others, representing the power stars have over peoples' fates. All that differentiates the gods from other people is their accord with a beast born from a golden star, so it's not strange for the starlight that governs their fates to be an amber streak from that same golden star, rather than the generic variety.
In other words, the golden star has already laid claim to the fate of the gods.
Honestly, my perception of Astel and Elden Beast are that they're both aliens. Astel is merely extraterrestrial whereas Elden Beast is extradimensional(in addition to extraterrestrial). The difference in their related ambers stem from this.
Elden Ring, to my eyes, more or less split the original Demon's Souls take on Faith and Intelligence based magicks. While in Demon's Souls they all came from The Old One, in Elden Ring it seems there are many great beings that impart/inspire magicks of both types.
This is why Radagon went to Caria and bedded Rennala. He was basically sleuthing for the Greater Will in order to take another power it did not possess into its Order (Why the Carian sealing sigil appears in his lattice work energy motif). This is also why the Giant's Flame had to be used to burn the Erdtree's Thorns. It was the clash of the powers of extradimensional beings.
Put another way, the Fallingstar Beasts and Astel are the ultimate end for sorcerers pursuing the Primeval Current. They are mortal, fleshy beings that succumb to blood loss and disease. They imitate the stars, and manipulate gravity in order to control meteors. The Elden Beast, due to being from another dimension is different. It alters The Lands Between's reality, and that's something you can see on a minor level with every other Outer God driven magic/story.
As for why Astel is beyond the Lake of Rot... Well, just think about the fact that the Lake of Rot did not exist until after Malenia and Radahn fought to a standstill. There is stone architecture all about and beyond the lake, and you can get to the tunnels that lead there by riding a coffin down the milky waterfalls from Deeproot Depths instead of taking the teleporter at Renna's Rise. Given that Astel is vulnerable to Scarlet Rot, it could be what trapped him where he is. Though the presence of another Astel in Yelough Anix Tunel in addition to the grey ones found in other mines/caves leads me to believe that the Astels merely like to live in dark places.
Your last point about the Lake of Rot may be incorrect. Remember the Scorpion Sting (the knife, cant remember it's actual name) that you find behind the praying creatures? It's description depicts it as being a relic of the Outer God of Rot, as in a physical part of it that was cut off. Add that to the ruins, belonging to a people, who may really well have been the "Lords of Rot", meaning they worshipped said Outer God.
TL;DR it's likely that the Lake of Rot was present there well before Melanias battle with Radahn.
@@Goony1246 Well it's just a knife crafted from a scorpion's tail and the relic. It could have been moved there after the lake formed. I mean it was in a treasure chest, so it had to have been put into the box at some point.
Combo that with the fact that a dragonkin soldier is in the Lake of Rot. Dragonkin Soldiers were made by the Nox, by The Eternal CIty.
Not too mention that in the 1.0 version of Elden Ring, instead of the centipede men it was the Ancestral Followers there, stamping their feet, covered in rot pustules. It's kind of an area they couldn't 100% decide what they were going for with.
Interesting tidbit. The amber starlight shard sits in front a statue of malenia and miquella.
seems to imply lusat saw a great star cluster being " taken out " by some unknowable entity akin to lovecraft. and whatever he saw in the deep void broke him
Funny thing is, I think astel isn’t a name at all. It’s the word for a fully matured star beast. Astel-Astral. There might even be further evolutions in dlc.
I will never understand inconsistent translating of japanese to english when literal translations make more sense in context. Especially when its not something like a book, but instead a game or movie or something with plenty of additional VISUAL context to discern the correct terminology. I get japanese can get really murky with vague inferring or with complicated definitions but so often it comes off as intentional by the translators to alter things unnecessarily. I can only imagine how much more convoluted the english iterations of the souls games are compared to what they should be.
It's not always that easy. Translators aren't always given audiovisual information to help make things clearer, and a lot of things can get shuffled around in development.
When you're given thousands upon thousands of lines to translate, it's also pretty difficult to connect one-off lines in one section of the game to lines in other sections. More of this stuff could be avoided if translators were given more resources to slow down and take their time.
Beyond that, there's the argument that whatever's translated should be localized to be more compelling in the target language especially since literal translations are going to sound stilted and you can't convey everything one-to-one.
@@LastProtagonist While I understand that time crunch, lack of information, etc etc are a factor of imperfect translations, I wont accept that to be the entire cause in instances of outright negligence. I don't expect the translations to always be 1:1, and that localization plays a part in it. But understanding and sympathizing with workload doesn't make the translations any more accurate. I know it varies but obviously wrong things are still wrong at the end of the day.
There are numerous times where simple sentences get pointlessly changed that also directly change the mood or intent of a characters response. The most recent and one of the worst Ive seen is in Ghostwire Tokyo. Without even knowing that people had a problem with one of the lines prior, I was already in the game with it subbed. Got to the line where KK is asked if he stole a bow from a shrine. He replies "saa, na" meanwhile the subs are "property is theft kid". That doesn't make any sense. In no context does it make sense. It struck me as incredibly odd while also thankful that I knew what he actually said. It wasnt a variation of the original phrase not a close fit for a difficult translation. Its outright wrong and changes the tone completely from the original neutral blasé response.
edit: will include that itd be a LOT less annoying if more english translated japanese games would ship with the japanese audio accessible since that makes it a lot easier to notice things like this lol
You don’t really need to go detecting mode and read Japanese translations. Just read it as it says.
@@triunegodfollower6449 If you're expecting a pizza but are ok being served a calzone then by all means you do you.
Wouldn’t it make sense that the primeval current is the source of glintstone?
I like to think theres an alien invasion happening with the falling star beasts and astels
Manus Celes, father of the abyss. I think astel was the meteorite after radahn and crawled down that area. Born in space and spent alot of time there.
Also astel is the name of a set of structures that stops rocks from falling on miners heads, but could also be a name given
What if the Star that fell after the Radahn Festival was Astel? Made a pretty big crater...
So something thats been bugging me is the golden starlight amber seluvis said it was supposed to be tied to Ranni but the gold part makes me think Marika. I know stars are tied to the Carian royal family but i think the golden Elden Stars would more closely relate in this instance
He uses normal starlight shard to create potions to normal people, to transform them in puppets. The golden starlight amber however is special, and he needed it to transform a god in puppet, Ranni in that case
@@WAR3600 I remember, but because of the gold hue, it reminded me of the star it was once a part of must have been the golden star that fell to the lands between. And so that it's deeply connected to the Greater Will and Queen Marika, which would explain why Ranni wasn't affected by the potion, bc she fully separated from the fate of that golden star
@@heatheroutre you know what? That's a pretty neat theory, I really liked
@@WAR3600 thank you, fictional lore is my long standing special interest! 🐸 Marika is my favorite to speculate on
@@heatheroutre me too, I love lore, specially in Fromsoft games. BTW what do you think about Marika?? I love her character and how she single handled has the most influence on the game, and we can't tell exactly if she was a bad guy or not
I always love me some LP
Miquella Knight Sword:
Sword forged by the servants of Miquella of the Haligtree, Molded after the weapons carried by Carian knights. However, instead of glintstone, the amber of the Haligtree was added to the blade [...]
If the major Erdtree is anything like Miquella's Haligtree (a fair assumption since both are "holy") we would expect the sap of the major Erdtree to be also holy and awaken through faith and not intelligence.
Comet Azura:
[...] Fires a tremendous comet in a torrent akin to the distant starry expanse, the place said to be the origin of glintstone. [...]
Glintstone is literally said to be the crystallized sap of the cosmos, saying that's somehow directly connected to the major Erdtree is a hell of a assumption that makes no sense if you factor in any item description.
Also falling star beasts are by no means stationary and we do see a bunch of craters and holes throughout the map, it's just unrealistic to think a creature like so would just stand in place its whole life for no reason, and especially on its most vulnerable stage where it turns immobile in order to complete a metamorphosis (ever heard about butterflies). A more fair assumption is that some time after birth those beats search for the ideal spot to start their metamorphosis.
its possible that the locations themselves are the craters if theyve been in the lands for thousands of years its possible the giant craters just got covored up over time. not to mention its possible astel burrow lower underground because its cold and dark just like the vacuum of space
I think astel isnt one being. Its like a name for the species
An Astel. 👍🏾
Maybe the shadow clones arent clones but it trying to warp more in?
There was a erd tree before the current one that the golden order destroyed this erd tree was the primodial crucible and may be more related
okay but those dodges at the beginning is that legit? it looks like the tail came back through you died it not have a hitbox on the return?
Gr8 content i love lore where not long ago i cared not.
I thought I still crashed into the now destroyed part of the capital, which is located above the deep root depths: big ol crater. From there, I think we’d have to look at waterways that lead to the other city or likely candidates of transportation, such as spell a portal, or they were drawn by the magic in that city, 🤷
I'm pretty sure Yelough should be pronounced Yelloff or Yelluf. Gough pronounces his name in Dark Souls 1 and it's "Goff." So that had me assume that's how the giant's language pronounce the "ough" suffix. So Smough is Smoff, and Yelough, being a giant locale, would be Yeloff.
edit: yes they're different games but From loves to repurpose their old lore and I think this is an example of that kind of loose crossover
What exactly is the primeval current? Another plane of existence or dimension? Or the universe above?
naturalborn means child outside of marriage, void and darkness both me outer space, works for me?
What are the Japanese terms used to describe the _people_ in the item descriptions? Both Founding Rain and the Sword of Night and Flame seem to credit an ancient civilisation of "astrologers" in the mountaintops which almost certainly preceded the Erdtree and possibly even Marika's status as a God(dess) whereas most Glintstone items refer to "sorcerers" who seem to have a continuous tradition leading to modern Raya Lucaria.
As for the Primeval Current being a "source", that must have some kind of common metaphysical meaning as nothing in space really drifts or gets dragged along the way we picture a river. Unfortunately the only other "origin story" I know in game is Hyetta's description of the One Great, which is not at all trustworthy to begin with and would need to precede the Elden Beast (and probably Founding Rain) leaving no supporting references.
Astrologers are called 星見, which is essentially "star-viewer," so I think Astrologer works really well as a term to describe them, and yes, at least some of them would predate the Erdtree.
The second kanji in primeval current 源流 means to "flow" like a current, so the translation makes sense at a meta level in that the localizers may have just taken each character at face value. There's also the chance the term originally came from GRRM. Even so, while space might not flow like a river exactly, the way the cosmos moves can be said to have a certain kind of flow.
@@LastProtagonist The second paragraph wasn't meant as criticism of the translation, but rather that any further interpretation should look in the direction of symbolism and mythology. As in, there is nothing we can map to the Primeval Current in _real life_ astrophysics even with this new interpretation of being the "source" of the flow. The closest would be gravity itself, but in Elden Ring gravitational magic seems to be a minor aspect in service of other powers.
What connection, if any, exists between the Alabaster and Onyx Lords to Astel? They both employ gravitation magic, and one was even master to Radahn whom employs that magic as well. I would also like to know why there are multiple instances of the Flame of Frenzy around these same beasts, do you think that has any connection?
The Alabaster/Onyx Lords were also said to come to the Lands Between via meteors, like Astel, and they _might_ have some connection to the Numen who came from outside the Lands Between.
As for Fallingstar Beasts and Astel, there's not a whole lot directly linking them, other than the connection of despair and the outer cosmos.
@@LastProtagonist So the Numen are moon people confirmed? I kid but thanks for the info, I didn't catch that the Alabaster and Onyx Lords also came in meteors.
It just seemed like a huge flag for the second Astel to be in the Yelough Anix Tunnel, the first part of the name being the same as the flower that blooms around the Frenzied, to say nothing of the actual ruins above it crawling with Frenzied enemies and the associated spell in the ruins chest. That and the squad of Frenzied soldiers right before the Fallingstar Beast on Mt. Gelmir seemed too deliberate. Then again there's also a Grafted Scion in the latter section so perhaps the devs flipped a coin on enemy placements.
One last question: how many Outer Gods/Entities would you say are beefing in the Lands Between?
@@saikoakuma For what it's worth, I think the Mt. Gelmir frenzyflame folk are there because Rykard was researching various ways to burn the Erdtree.
As for the number of beefing Outer Gods: as many as Miyazaki needs there to be. ;)
@@LastProtagonist Fair enough on both points, thanks for your time.
- Onyx Lords seem to be on the side of Astel and possibly the stars by extension
- Alabaster Lords seem to be against the stars and taught Radahn how to subdue them
-If you pull Alabaster Lord and Onyx Lord to same spot in the Yelough Anix tunnel they begin to attack each other.
-While Onyx Lord does not attack Astel, Alabaster Lord attacks Astel.
-Alabaster Lord's are generally friendly to people and they seem to walk freely in Landsbetween.
-Onyx Lord is usually imprisoned somewhere. Caria Manor & Sealed Tunnel.
Sorcery lore is way more interesting than sorcery itself. Hated it in dark souls, hate it in elden ring. Would you like your blue pew to be small, medium, or incomprehensibly stamina consumptive?
Is there a fetus shape in Sellen's primal glintstone?
Yessir!
Astel is Jenova from the FF7 remake, change my mind, lol.
Some of the most prevalent theories tie Falling Star Beasts and Astel together, as most think Astel(s) are the fully-grown form of Falling Star Beasts. This also ties to the idea that Astel(s) is similar to the life cycle of antlions.
Falling-Star Beast -> fully-grown Falling-Star Beast -> the Astels that hang on ceilings of caves -> Boss Astels
So there should be no doubt that Astels come from the sky, as they are literally fallen stars.
All of this just give me a big question, about the true size of stars above the Lands Between. How big are they truly are?
Also, the fact that 2 sorcerers gazed into the cosmos ("Primeval Current") and went mad just screams cosmic horror, ala Bloodborne.
Algo comment
I never understand these translation videos, because I'm pretty sure FromSoft writes their lore *for* English. English is the more official version. I don't remember where I learned that.
Even more than that the localization company Frognation works with teams from Fromsoft, and the translations get final approval from Miyazaki. I just read an article on PC Gamer about this that was pretty interesting for anyone who wants to check it out.
The title of the article is: "It's a tier above': How a giant, cryptic RPG like Elden Ring gets translated"
I am searching bloodborne théories and I get elden ring :/😪😪😪💀
oof, that voice is grating
Get better sound, there is absolutely no depth to your sound mixing