I’ve been a vegetarian, a raw vegan, a paleo, and a pescatarian, in that order, over the last 15 years, and all I did was get sicker until I started carnivore three weeks ago. Now, all of my health problems are reversing. I’m off three out of five of my meds. My energy is through the roof. I’ll never eat another plant again.🦁🥩💪
Yes me as well standard then vegetarian then vegan then fruitarian then paleo then keto then carnivore nothing compares to carnivore it’s almost like we were designed to eat this way we have fancy phones and cars but our bodies are still early man, our entire digestive system is designed for protein and fat which we are made of, we don’t have a cecum anymore evolution knocked that out, it’s 50,000 years ago in another ice age and people are saying pass the broccoli 🤡 which is funny for one that wasn’t a choice and two none and I do mean none of these supermarket vegetable existed in the forms seen today
Raw vegan is not recommended by any doctors. I do whole foods plant based and I cook much of my food as it is much easier to get the desired amount of caloric energy. I think you're going to eventually die from a stroke or heart attack, just going by pure probability, but I hope you wise up before then. God Bless you.
Nothing intelligent about what is going on here. If nutrition is based on science and these two are scientifically literate, the issue should resolve itself and one party concede. You won't have physic scientists or mathematicians disagreeing this fundamentally and disregarding each others evidence as bad evidence. Evidence is evidence. It can only indicate one truth. One piece of evidence is not necessarily sufficient to come to a full understanding, but each new piece should not contradict the old understanding or the old understanding was flawed. Every new piece of evidence will rule out possibilities until you are finally left with an undeniable theory that best explains all the data consistently. If they dont have enough evidence, then they shouldnt hold to either side so firmly. If there is enough evidence then one of them is lying or they don't truly understand the science.
I do like how Dr. Ovadia always states his case and also makes a point to support Dr. Kahn’s view. I also like how Dr. Kahn is open to doing CT calcium scores for his patients. I do not think Dr. Kahn can leave this interview without really contemplating researching carnivore. The one thing I have noticed is the carnivore doctors look a lot healthier than plant based diets. I think it is important that all doctors keep trying to figure this out! They were lied to in medical school! I hope to see many more of these conversations. Great interview!
It seems some individuals excel at crafting less-than-stellar remarks. To clarify with a touch of erudition: Dr. Kahn embraced a vegan lifestyle a mere three years subsequent to Dr. Ovadia’s entrance into the world. Does this timeline not illuminate the absurdity of the original statement for you?
Lol. Are we comparing two pro tennis players and their looks or are looking at two doctors 😂 last time I checked there are no requirements for beauty check when you enrol to be MD. Yea maybe when you spend so much time hunching over real research work when you have 5 minutes between patients for decades maybeee that leaves some mark. Also absolutely irrelevant and stupid commentary. Look at Simon Hill who is not a doctor but know ridiculously lot about nutrition science that much that he gets compliments from people he interviews. Does he look sick to you?
@@lazur1 true, but this is classic human behavior.. he's losing an argument and he knows it. thats why he's behaving this way.. not because he isnt a good communicator.
Is there proof high consumption beef causes bowel cancer? I used to have swollen legs, red spots from poor circulation on ankles amd toe.nails drying out. Ate carnivore, all problems PLUS ALL PAIN GONE...
Actually, there is not one documented case that red meat consumption has caused ANY cancer. Not one. Check out Georgia Ede's presentation of all the relevant studies. Happy for your healing, cheers!
No. The studies that showed cancer from meat were very very faulty. For examples the epidemiological study of nurses found meat dangerous based on a set of questions like "in the last four years how often did you eat... ... Hamburger" Where high intake of hamburger was taken as high meat consumption, despite it often being a meal of a triple cheeseburger with fries and coke The anti-meat science is due to influence of the Seventh Day Adventist cult
There are no studies showing long term meat consumption causes bowel cancer. Observational studies have been conducted but are confounded by the fact that the meat eater also are French foes, soda pop, processed carbs etc, so they can’t show valid results.
@@kiwikim5163 Moreover, if one understands the Warburg Effect, one would understand that if you just ate beef with few if any carbs, it will help to fight and prevent cancer.
Great job putting these conversations together and I like how you tightened up the debate schedule and you're taking more control. It is interesting to see the very limited overlap in viewpoints. And Dr Khan is so wrong about seed oils and added sugar. It's become hard for me to appreciate the vegan point of view at all. It's so hardcore ignoring human evolutionary diet. I became so allergic to so many plant foods because I have a latex allergy. And plants were definitely going to be the death of me. Love being a carnivore! Best thing I ever did for myself. Took eating the wrong things for a few years thinking I was being healthy and piling up on oxalates and ending up in the ER for me to figure it out.
I love the fact that both professionals agree that lifestyle changes and choices are best instead of writing prescriptions for every little thing. That was my main reason for not going to the Dr. b/c I didn’t wanna be put on medication for things I could change on my own.
I started carnivore 2 weeks ago. I have a lot of healing to do inside. I was Vegan and vegetarian and it made me sickly. In two weeks the joint swelling went down, and my clarity is sharper. Looking forward to more healing
I was also vegetarian and then Paleo. I started carnivore 95 days ago. Gut and even constipation healed! I can see my waist line as never before. Joint pain gone too!
@@mariyo08Me too! 2 and a half years as carnivore and have not had one day where I didn't feel amazing! It would take too much space and time to tell you all the health benefits I have derived by eating a carnivore diet.
@kathleenphillips7145 Well, medically, I just cannot eat plants. The fiber and toxins in them destroyed my gut. The only things I can eat are eggs and meat and seafood. So medically speaking, I can't eat anything else unless I want to be doubled over in pain and in the bathroom all day. I have also gotten rid of all my joint pain, my high BP, my pre-diabetes, painful arthritis in my hands and elsewhere is gone, my sleep has improved, my lifelong dry skin is gone. Shall I go on? I did this diet as a last resort to see if it would help me feel better. And it did. I feel better than I did in my 30's. It was like a miracle for me. I am 76, and I feel amazing every day! My health is the most important thing to me. I don't care what anyone else eats.
When I was a vegan (4 years) I was amazed at how rage-filled and closed minded my fellow vegans were. These days, (I am 82 years old) I eat a low carb diet and my weight has come down, I am not longer in the pre-diabetic range and I am no longer on blood pressure meds. I don't need attack vegans but that wasn't healthy diet for me--I gained weight, was always hungry, snacking all the time. Dr Kahn has the mind of a religious fundamentalist like so many of the vegans I knew.
I have also noticed that TH-cam vegans seem angry and aggressive, and spread veganism as though it is a religion. In reality, it's all about the elimination of processed junk food.
If you can go back to eating meat, you were never a vegan. You ate a plant based diet and that was it. A vegan quits eating animals out of respect for their right to live, free of interference from us.
@@brunetyannick1174 snacking is fundamentally a symptom of a carb based diet... its not about the quantities but rather how the body deals with carbs...
Seed oils are by definition a highly processed food. Khan is so wrong on that. And the fact that he is Ancel Keys biographer is extremely irritating to me. He was one of the biggest producers of propaganda historically regarding diet. I will acknowledge that he lived 100 years so he must have been doing something that worked for him.
Ancel Keys was enjoying fatty red meats regularly behind the scenes. He didn’t practice what he preached. He was bought and paid for by Big Parma and the Food industry.
The studies are on Kahn’s side, plenty of studies showing that WFPB reverses or helps to stall atherosclerosis. Absolutely ZERO carnivore studies showing the same thing. But telling people what they want to hear pays more, and so does the beef industry. Trust me Okra and Celery farmers don’t have much in the way of financial influence. People like to be told that their bad habits are ok.
@@AgrippaMaxentiusKahn has conned you obviously! You are clueless. But I don't care. You do just exactly what you want to do. I'm going to stay carnivore and keep pain-free and no fatty liver from fruits and no diverticulitis from roughage that I don't need. No gallstones from not eating enough fat. There is 100 million times more evidence for the carnivore diet then there is for carbohydrate eating and plant eating. Check out the Paleo anthropological record. Ever see any cave paintings where heads of lettuce were depicted? Nope.
@@AgrippaMaxentius You're just plain wrong. There are studies showing the benefits of the CD. Many many times more to the contrary though, because they're paid for by sugar & processed food companies! And these studies are mostly epidemalogical anyway, the weakest kind.
I lowered my Lp(a) by 80nmol/L after 4 months on zero carb carnivore diet. My cardiologist told me this was a hereditary condition and there was no way to lower it.
Various things including disease can transiently reduce Lp(a) however this doesn’t mean that they overall lower cardiovascular risk overall. At the end of the day something might lower something or increase something but the outcome is what matters
While I was low carb, my Lp(a) lowered when I started taking niacin. It only lasted awhile, though, as it quit working. I quit taking the niacin when I read that it can cause increased blood glucose. At that point I’d been carnivore for a year. Unfortunately, being strict carnivore hasn’t reduced my Lp(a). My ApoB is still high on carnivore, too. That won’t deter me from staying carnivore, though, since I’ve seen many benefits, including resolving my sugar addiction.
We all have known how our medical establishment has jumped on bad science and refused to re-evaluate until someone finally makes enough of a fuss about the facts and wakes up the conversation.
The assertion of safety rests on a mere hypothesis, not empirical evidence. Dr. Khan’s preference for organic canola oil underscores a shift towards healthier alternatives. The crux of the Minnesota Coronary Experiment’s controversy lies in its use of margarine, a product historically riddled with trans fats. Although unrecognized as a health risk during the 1970s, trans fats are now implicated in adverse health outcomes. The study’s lack of precise dosage data further complicates the interpretation of its findings, rendering it an incomplete chapter in the annals of nutritional science
25 minutes in and love the discussion. I admit I am a carnivore and have no plans to go vegan but glad to hear two sides and in many cases similar approaches but different treatment styles. I am definitely a Dr Ovadia fan. I hope to stay off of his operating table as he says.
You probably never even heard of ovadia before this. You just sided with the meat guy before you ever heard the whole debate. You carnis have your mind made up and nothing could ever change it , not even after it kills people.
I've been a 'healthy' low fat omnivore (increasing health issues), plant based for 2 years (abject failure) and now carnivore for 4+ years (amazing!). I will say that without question, the carnivore diet is the healthiest and has eliminated ALL my health issues. I just wish we could agree that, irrespective of plant based or animal based, we can be healthy if we eat locally, seasonally and avoid processed foods and seed oils. Dr Kahn may well think he's healthy eating plants, but is he optimally healthy? Probably not. And his ignorance concerning LDL was shocking but not surprising.
What does it mean abject failure? With absolute honesty what did your diet look like? Was it only whole food? Did you take b12? Oh the saaaad vegan diet doesn’t come with b12 naturally. Nice that farmers feed livestock with pharmaceutical b12 in their food because b12 is missing in our diet because of the sanitation of the environment. You can get b12 from dirt in the nature, pop a supplement which low carb people low popping supplements, or eat in a cow that ate b12 supplement for you. Tough decision right?
Very nice interviews Lauren. I like that it was a respectful debate between two highly educated colleagues who seemed to have an equally shared goal for optimal human health for their patients. Neither have a my way or the highway viewpoint and I think we need more of this.
She was rightfully corrected. If you knew as much as him you would stand up from your seat and shout. You aren’t so it’s okay to not understand how very wrong her statement was
I have only watched 11 minutes of this video. I never comment. I am thrilled that someone is doing some face to face opposing view videos. I have only seen Dr Berry and Dr Saladeno do an interview where they didn’t totally agree. I applaud both these doctors for thier willingness. Huge shout out to Lauren for bringing this together and so far anyway holding it respectful. Great job. I hope other major influencers will follow suite.
Agree that insulin resistance is at the root of all metobolic diseases. Chronic high levels of insulin is directly related to too much glucose in the body. Meat and fat do not induce insulin responses. Carbs do
age 73 - T2 insulin dependent - 20 months keto / Carnivore - weight loss 36kgs - HBA1C 5.6 from 8.5 - BP 117/62 from 155/90 - IR 2.0 from 3.8 - Daily Insulin 9 units from 140 - all kidney / liver markers improved - LDL slightly up - HDL up - Trigs down - pant size 34 from 46 - a vegan diet for some people seems to be sustainable - room for all
@@laurengianna9944 its all about too many carbs / sugars any reduction from SAD is on the right path - no need for extremes - find your lane - down another 1kg + latest IR = trigs/hdl ratio is now 1.4 - weight loss slow as less than 10kgs to go for target weight of abt 75Kgs - enjoy
Red meat does NOT cause inflammation, in fact probably reduces or eliminates it!!!!! My opinion based on experience. Sugar and high carb diet does, however. (also based on experience, my own that is)
Oooooh based on your experience it reduces inflammation?? Could you feel all that inflammation in your arterial walls bro?? Damn, you could really provide huge usage to the world of science with your superhuman abilities!!
@@spikyball5883 If you have inflammation on the outside, it’s highly likely you have inflammation on the inside. If that inflammation on the outside clears up, it’s likely the inflammation on the inside has also cleared up.
I have been vegan since 2018 and I am in amazing shape. I feel so much better eating a plant based diet. I think it is a lot more nuanced than just saying i was vegan and or vegeterian... vegetarian can mean dairy/eggs which is a big part of the carnivore diet. I think humans can thrive on either diet provided we exercise and stay happy and healthy. The long term impacts of going carnivore are unknown and will only be know in the next 30-40 years when the current internet meat doctors hit 90.
@@spinachtriangle actually it is the opposite, humans have been eating meat for ages, only in the last 10,000 yrs agriculture has been developed. The muscle gain with meat is ridiculous. I was vegan for almost 9 yrs, no cheating, and I can say I deteriorated with time. Pay attention my brother to your mass, strength, drive, energy, joints, mood, wish u the best
Gave vegan 2 1/2 years and was always hungry and tired. I broke my ankle running and gained 40 lbs because I couldn’t workout 3 hours a day like I was. I am now carnivore 3 months have lost 20 lbs of fat gained in muscle, feel great, and I am never hangry. 65 years old endless energy!
Well we know how much nutrition study you get as a physician. Your degree carries about as much weight as your average personal trainer. We all know how to read a study… the difficulty is understanding seemingly conflicting evidence… that’s why you can find Physicians on every side of every nutritional debate…
I'm sorry but when Dr. Kahn described his history and thoughts around Ansel Keys, he instantly lost all credibility with me. He shut me down on hearing anything else he had to say. Ansel Keys was never part of the solution but rather part of the problem.
Great job bringing these two doctors together for this discussion. One of the several points of note was with Dr. Kahn and his dismissive choice of words and overreaction to Ancel Keys questions. I question this type of approach.
This is most excellent...i lean carnivore but i appreciated hearing both sides. And Lauren you did a fantastic job of moderating...very fair and professional.
Kerry from homesteadhow was diagnosed with congestive heart failure, which they say is an irreversible condition. A year of eating a carnivore diet healed his heart. ❤
Unfortunately for many doctors these are "isolated cases" that are not relevant to science because for genera practice they can't rely on things like that, regardless that those "isolated cases" have become hundreds of thousands they are still waiting for "real science" to study and tell them if that if is real or not. Sad, sad, sad,. The whole medicine industry is sad.
Wow! What a GREAT interview! Huge props for this desperately needed cultural CPR. We can have civil conversations and our own opinions and self control and lively discussion and still retain our worth as people! Thank you for this Lauren, Dr. Khan and Dr. Ovadia, great work and very helpful for all of us trying to work this out!
I'm sorry my friend, but this was not a very good interview. Dr Khan is not a good debater and should have dispatched this quack he was opposing multiple times with study data that he could have cited but failed to. I suggest you watch the following "debate" between another popular carnivore quack, Anthony Chaffee and a whole food plant based advocate Matt Nagra. It's long but well worth it. Let me know then who makes the better case. It could save your life. Good luck and God Bless. th-cam.com/video/3FFV0w55k2I/w-d-xo.html
My personal take is that we're somewhere in the middle, I enjoy berries and salad aswell as ribeye steaks, eggs and dairy. I think animal products build bodies and plants/fruits detox the body. Kids needs plenty of high quality animal products. Just my take.
I enjoyed this convo and love to practice keeping my mind open. I'm carnivore 2 years, I tell people what keeps me going has nothing to do with science or history, it has to do with how I feel. The diet that works AND that you can stick to long enough for it to work is the right one for you. But if I had to choose a diet to follow based off how the other people who follow the diet look, I'd choose carnivore every time, they most often present as a picture of Health compared to a vegan 🤔
@@888jucu Many different reasons, most often people try extremes because they have a health problem of some sort and this fixes it for them. If you are healthy you probably wouldn't have much cause to change 🙂
@@MyFlowRiders Yes that is my assessment also e.g if have some condition e.g IBS etc then trying some sort of elimination diet makes sense. If people are just trying to do something for weight loss then going Carnivore may get immediate improvement if for example they stop eating highly processed crap but I believe a balanced diet of mostly natural or minimally processed would be better in the long term but who am I to say 👍🤣
@@MyFlowRiders But isn't it much wiser to NOT wait until you are ill to do something about it. Which diet gives you the best prognosis to NOT become ill? Isn't it wiser to look at why so many people are getting metabolically unhealthy with diabetes, heart disease, cancer and Alzheimer's and try to prevent them? I see far better outcomes and results from the carnivore camp than the plant-based diet camp. And the science and anthropology back it up. Man did not evolve to be vegetarian - our gut does not support it. We're the only animals that try to eat what we're not designed to eat.
He does not look unhealthy. He looks leaner in the face than the other guy who looks pudgy which is indicative of eating too much of something. Kahn is also older.
@@dbuck1964 For a man his age who is not puffed out and fat in the face which so many are these days, he looks good. You're just used to seeing fat people and they look puffy instead of thin in the face. And I'll bet some people would say that you look unhappy most of the time too. Let's quit judging people by how their faces look. You don't know if he's happy or unhappy and that isn't the issue is it?
@@ddhqj2023don't judge others by how there faces look you say right after you judge someone saying they are probably around fat people with fat faces...I think they both look fine.ovida said he was obese for years and kahn is an older man..maybe the answer is a little of eating both..along with the things they agree on of course
Getting these docs together in the same video, directly debating, the establishment (pro statin/pro veggie) vs. the new carnivore movement, is brilliant! Thank you!
Even though I'm on TEAM CARNIVORE, I appreciate Dr. Kahn on taking the time to engage on the addressed issues. Even though he's on the plant based side of things, he treats patients on a case by case basis just as doctors should. It was very informative and educational listening to these two duke it out, and it's always refreshing to be reminded why I am on TEAM CARNIVORE.
Dr Khan’s personality automatically turns me off from his opinions. Anyone who turns to personal insults when arguing a point blows any credibility they have, imo.
@BrBr-dh5ec that's a different person. Elliecourtney was simply saying THIS guy Dr Khan turns her off because HE turns to personal insult. What Dr Baker does is not a reflection of Dr khan, nor an argument that has anything to do with Dr khan.
I just watched Bart Kay go over the Randle cycle again, and he makes it clear not to mix a high fat diet with a high carb diet. Either eat a high fat diet (carnivore) and eliminate eating all carbs, or, if you're going to eat a high carb diet, eat lean meat (if you eat meat) and keep your fat intake extremely low. This is how veganism/vegetarianism can be healthy compared to the typical American diet (assuming you're not constantly eating vegan junk food). How well you do on a vegan diet depends on whether your body has the ability to derive enough nutrients from fruits, vegetables, and legumes. Many people do not have that ability and suffer from various nutrient deficiencies the longer they're on the diet. Some people do well on the diet and can stick with it long-term. Just don't mix a high fat diet with a high carb diet. Pick one or the other.
Of course , people like to be told their bad habits are just fine. Doctors in the 50s overwhelmingly recommended smoking, they even had their favorite brands! But people with intelligence look at the studies, and the studies show plant based diets reverse or stall heart disease. Can’t say the same about meat.
Based on my own experience with my own body over the past 6 years, Dr. Kahn's spiel is significantly flawed. Some of his claims seem exaggerated or even baseless. The vegan diet to me was completely impossible because of my insulin resistance (40% of the US young adult population is insulin resistant) and gut distress from legumes, nuts , etc. Both carnivore and carnivore-leaning keto diets have worked wonderfully for me.
I am finally healthy after dropping the 6 years of plant based diet. 20 months of Ketovore and doing so much better, hallelujah. Our own Bio-individuality is all I can figure out.
Zero carbs, low or no sugar, pure meat, eggs, cheese, no seed oils, and select fruits and vegetables for filling in extra requirements. That’s basically everything that works for me. Tried and tested. IMO and experience (family members also) sugar and seed oils are much more dangerous than the “traditional” things claimed to cause heart disease.
So for the people who are saying they are on one side or the other: there is no side. They both agree that PERSONALIZED medicine is the way. There are too much variability between people, whether its genetic, environmental, lifestyle, etc...Best we will ever be able to do is to is adapt treatments to individuals after thorough evaluation.
Dr. Ovadia won this debate by far. Dr. Kahn was very defensive and totally lost me when he promoted seed oils as healthy. Thinking his ego is holding him back from seeing the truth.
I noticed this behavior in him as well and it turned me off. People who just dig their heels in and start acting defensive are sending a clear message in my opinion.
You people are high. Go back to Joe Rogan and your safe bubble of podcasts that only tell you what you want to hear, if that's what you took from this. Ovadia and Kahn AGREED on 95% of what they were discussing and you morons can only see conflict and focus on who "won". The problem isn't Ovadia or Kahn. The problem is you.
I was vegetarian for years and gained 50 pounds. I also developed so many issues, it is taking me years to fix, not to mention permanent damage. I am not carnivore, but I an certainly careful of what plantfood I consume. Especially in this day and age of modern farming. 😢
@@AgrippaMaxentiusI've been carnivore for a month and lost weight, my stomach isn't bloated, a swollen fat mass right above my belly button that used to hurt is significantly reduced, hot flashes down, finally feel satiated. I truly believe people should do what works for them as you and I are doing, as there is room to explore all kinds of ways of eating 🥩 🥦 🥚 🥕 🧀
Bottom line, more studies on animal based (carnivore and ketogenic) diets are needed…but I don’t think we will get them. No sugar No processed foods No seed oils Emphasize whole foods and you will be healthier!!! Now, pass the ribeye!!!
I find it so interesting to read the many (numerous) biased comments.. it’s human..🤷🏻♀️ I listened to this TH-cam bc I like to hear the different opinions and research to back these up. I’m still in the hunt for carnivore research for reversing heart disease.. hmm.. I know how much of a minority I am in this space 😅 but I have to say, I have been eating mostly WFPB for a couple of years now and feel amazing at 54, labs have improved in the cholesterol numbers-they we’re always fine and around 51 started to creep up. So like I mentioned in another comment.. we are all different and may have different responses to what we eat. Keeping respect and openness to others is challenging for some.. bon appetite!😃🌱🥦🥑🍠💚
For me it’s not a matter of which diet is better between the carnivore and vegan. It is a matter of what you are not eating that is not causing inflammation anymore. If you eat carnivore or vegan but still cheat with vegetable seed oil, refined carbs, ultra processed foods, you will get inflammation. I tried keto and it worked well for a while, I lost weight and put me back on a healthy weight, but after a few weeks, the flu came back and no matter how I tried to fix it, it would not fix it. Also, I tried to workout and almost passed out as my muscles where not really responding accordingly. So I gave up, but had eliminated all the trash I used to eat before keto. That flu got better next day, but took a while to go away completely even after introducing carbs back. However, years before keto, I tried vegetarianism/veganism for 4 months: clean food and I felt much better than I did on keto. Not problems at the gym at all, but after a while I started to feel sick and weak and started to crave meat. So I ate meat as diet for me is not a cult. Guess what? I got better almost instantly. The problem with carnivore and keto, is that they don’t have healthy carbs or enough carbs. The problem with veganism is the lack of some meat. So the middle is a safe ground for me (maybe not for everyone). Today I eat healthy carbs and meat! I feel great at the gym and in every thing so that’s it for me. Do what works for you and get rid of ultra processed foods
Next time tell Dr. Olvidia where the camera is so he knows where to look. It would improve his self presentation. Good interview. We should have more like this.
@@marianne1959 Not at all. I'm sure he wants to be looking at the audience instead of off to the side. I really like this doctor and want him to have every advantage.
I was vegan for 2 years. That was the worse part of my life. I felt miserable and i had to stop that nonsense because of developing s bunch of symptoms of malnutrition! Fruits spike my blood sugar! Thank God I measure my blood sugar so i know exactly what fruits do to my body
I've cut out all sugars for 90 days. I thought I'd experiment eating oranges and guava last week and guess what happened? I got huge nasty blisters on my head and arm. Who says everyone should eat fruit when some of us have such horrible reactions to it.
Hi guys, my professor in high school was vegeterian, not even full vegan, and at some point in his life the doctor told him he had to start to eat liver because of problems that he started to have due to his diet. I cannot forget this and for me it makes one thing clare, carnivore or not meat is good. Hope it helps!
Dr Chris Knobbe clearly showed how seed based oils affects ones health. All oils once heated change into dangerous by products. The biggest issue is that they oxidize very rapidly.
Great debate!!! Finally a civil, intelligent conversation amongst doctors that was fear and unbiased. Can’t seem to find any without the vegan getting defensive and aggressive. We’re all just trying to figure out and keeping an open mind is how we do that.
Guests should be asked exactly what their chosen diet consists of, I think that would show everyone which is truly accomplishing a healthy outcome. Which one of the two can demonstrate from what they ate today meats (lol) the daily intake needed for protein and fat...that would be telling!! As a massage therapist, I have my hands on both diet choices, I can tell you the vegan/vegetarian/plant based are extremely frail!!! And rarely, if ever getting enough protein and fat.
Meat, plants, and fruits 😊 Skip all processed foods, sugar, carbs, sodas, candies, cookies, fast food, junk food, and bad oils. Eat the foods that work for your body. Be healthy and slim ❤
I can't eat fruits or vegetables. I had horrible IBS for 15 years until I eliminated fruits, veggies, grains, nuts and seeds from my diet. 2 1/2 years pain, bloating, gas, diarrhea and constipation free!!
This was such a good discussion. So nice to see a largely respectful exchange of views on this topic. At the end of the day what we all should want is to discover truth - not just to score points for our side’s preferred dietary approach.
Good job moderating the debate, Lauren. I think both doctors did a good job representing their point of view. Minimizing processed/ultra processed foods is an approach that each side agrees on.
Been whole foods plant based 8 years lost fat gained muscle.. the real debate should be processed vs unprocessed.. maybe both plant based and carnivore help without processed foods!
Great debate. You have quality guests and I always learn something. At the moment I eat higher amounts of animal based protein than I have in decades and I am stronger and heal much better because of it.
A question I would’ve asked The Doctors, if that new science that they’re waiting on comparing carnivore versus vegans would both or either of them change their diet to what the new science would show? ❓❓❓❓❓❓❓ GREAT DISCUSSION!!!! We Need more of understanding both sides. Great job! Thank you Doctors and Lauren! ✅👍❓
Whole food plant diet rocks. I'm 53 and have a resting heart rate of 46 beets a minute. I have been on a whole food plant diet for 11 years and weigh only 165 lbs
I just want to add that I think patients ought to be asking their doctor to help them identify whether there is plaque, whether its growing, staying the same or reducing, and what is causing it. We have to push for help with this and not just accept the one size fits approach. I really respect both of these doctors for being willing to look at their patients as individuals and also listening to what their patients are saying they need and can do. That partnership is what medicine OUGHT to be.
Medicine should be always individual. But there are certain things that are not debatable. We can not change the biochemistry or the physiology or patophysiology. If we are saying having high LDL-C puts you at risk for heart disease and we should try to lower it it is not an opinion. It is based on decades of research, hard outcome data and genetic studies. The biggest cause of your high LDL-C is genetics, not diet. Diet and exercise are just a way to treat it without medication. Sometimes it is not enough. We can debate how you want to lower it, make an individual concept how it fits best. What we can not debate is that having chronically elevated LDL-C is unhealthy. What we can debate though if it is worth the risk for you personally.
If you ask most cardiologist for a CT calcium score they flat out refuse it. You know you have a good cardiologist if they agree to give you one. Insurance will not cover it unless it is medically necessary . My cardio did order it for me and my insurance denied it. He also gave me a cheaper place to go if my insurance didn’t cover it. Unfortunately doctors have to play the game if they want to keep their license.
Total fabrication. The studies overwhelmingly show that WFPB diets reverse or stall atherosclerosis. Not a single carnivore study shows that. But at least you’re eating what you enjoy.
Great discussion….very informative!! More research needs to be done. I love my Keto lifestyle and I have very little inflammation. It was a game changer for me.
Interesting the remark by Kahn, "They're drinking bulletproof coffee." He is suggesting that high fat diets are dangerous, because he could have said sugar and been more credible.
I would like to hear, as a 73 yr old woman who went carnivore July 2023, why no one discusses the actual digestive challenges ‼️ Humans aren't designed to process plant material, or extract nutrition from plants. We don't have a RUMEN ‼️ "an even-toed ungulate mammal that chews the cud regurgitated from its rumen. The ruminants comprise the cattle, sheep, antelopes, deer, giraffes, and their relatives" Then theres the challenge of the bad bacteria that are encouraged by PLANT BASED sugars especially. I recently listened to a woman who has researched this microbiome related health and the reason the good bacteria struggle to proliferate . The studies of carnivore lifestyles might be very beneficial in tracking the GUT HEALTH and finding the best diet to assist the good bacterial balance.
The best thing about carnivore diet is that shopping is a breeze and has zero wastage of food in the fridge. ❤
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Had to find a new purpose for my produce drawer lol. Saves so much money.
@@RamsBereit grease and lard for health
You are wasting food with frozen fruit and vegetables?
Or a non frozen coconut , watermelon or olive oil?
Carnivore is getting back to basics like hunting...only now it's for a sale on meat!
I’ve been a vegetarian, a raw vegan, a paleo, and a pescatarian, in that order, over the last 15 years, and all I did was get sicker until I started carnivore three weeks ago. Now, all of my health problems are reversing. I’m off three out of five of my meds. My energy is through the roof. I’ll never eat another plant again.🦁🥩💪
I love the carnivore diet!!! I plan to stay its course forever.
Yes me as well standard then vegetarian then vegan then fruitarian then paleo then keto then carnivore nothing compares to carnivore it’s almost like we were designed to eat this way we have fancy phones and cars but our bodies are still early man, our entire digestive system is designed for protein and fat which we are made of, we don’t have a cecum anymore evolution knocked that out, it’s 50,000 years ago in another ice age and people are saying pass the broccoli 🤡 which is funny for one that wasn’t a choice and two none and I do mean none of these supermarket vegetable existed in the forms seen today
Raw vegan is not recommended by any doctors. I do whole foods plant based and I cook much of my food as it is much easier to get the desired amount of caloric energy. I think you're going to eventually die from a stroke or heart attack, just going by pure probability, but I hope you wise up before then. God Bless you.
You did it wrong. Kale is not enough carbs to give you energy. You should of ate carbs.
@@Coach_Jose but the actual human requirement for carbs is zero? none ever so why did he do it wrong?
Excellent interview. So refreshing to bring “opposing” diet proponents together for such intelligent, honest conversation. More please!
Nothing intelligent about what is going on here. If nutrition is based on science and these two are scientifically literate, the issue should resolve itself and one party concede. You won't have physic scientists or mathematicians disagreeing this fundamentally and disregarding each others evidence as bad evidence. Evidence is evidence. It can only indicate one truth. One piece of evidence is not necessarily sufficient to come to a full understanding, but each new piece should not contradict the old understanding or the old understanding was flawed. Every new piece of evidence will rule out possibilities until you are finally left with an undeniable theory that best explains all the data consistently. If they dont have enough evidence, then they shouldnt hold to either side so firmly. If there is enough evidence then one of them is lying or they don't truly understand the science.
I do like how Dr. Ovadia always states his case and also makes a point to support Dr. Kahn’s view. I also like how Dr. Kahn is open to doing CT calcium scores for his patients.
I do not think Dr. Kahn can leave this interview without really contemplating researching carnivore.
The one thing I have noticed is the carnivore doctors look a lot healthier than plant based diets. I think it is important that all doctors keep trying to figure this out! They were lied to in medical school!
I hope to see many more of these conversations. Great interview!
Hardly. They all look greasy and swollen!
It seems some individuals excel at crafting less-than-stellar remarks. To clarify with a touch of erudition: Dr. Kahn embraced a vegan lifestyle a mere three years subsequent to Dr. Ovadia’s entrance into the world. Does this timeline not illuminate the absurdity of the original statement for you?
@@educational-101he says in the first minute that he's been a vegan for 47years!? - edit he said plant based for the last 47 years?
Lol. Are we comparing two pro tennis players and their looks or are looking at two doctors 😂 last time I checked there are no requirements for beauty check when you enrol to be MD. Yea maybe when you spend so much time hunching over real research work when you have 5 minutes between patients for decades maybeee that leaves some mark. Also absolutely irrelevant and stupid commentary. Look at Simon Hill who is not a doctor but know ridiculously lot about nutrition science that much that he gets compliments from people he interviews. Does he look sick to you?
@@rainedyani8505
Dr. Westman doesnt look swollen. Dr. Berry doesnt look swollen. Nor does Dr Ovadia, who used to be much heavier.
People who just dig their heels in and start acting defensive are sending a clear message in my opinion.
One can be bad representative for a good idea.
@@lazur1 true, but this is classic human behavior.. he's losing an argument and he knows it. thats why he's behaving this way.. not because he isnt a good communicator.
its his whole lifes perception , he will defend it at all costs.
@@Jojo-o6o6w Indeed, but that’s him. There are better spokesmen for essentially the same beliefs.
@@lazur1 'beliefs' is perhaps the key word 🤔
Is there proof high consumption beef causes bowel cancer? I used to have swollen legs, red spots from poor circulation on ankles amd toe.nails drying out. Ate carnivore, all problems PLUS ALL PAIN GONE...
Actually, there is not one documented case that red meat consumption has caused ANY cancer. Not one. Check out Georgia Ede's presentation of all the relevant studies. Happy for your healing, cheers!
No. The studies that showed cancer from meat were very very faulty.
For examples the epidemiological study of nurses found meat dangerous based on a set of questions like "in the last four years how often did you eat... ... Hamburger"
Where high intake of hamburger was taken as high meat consumption, despite it often being a meal of a triple cheeseburger with fries and coke
The anti-meat science is due to influence of the Seventh Day Adventist cult
There are no studies showing long term meat consumption causes bowel cancer. Observational studies have been conducted but are confounded by the fact that the meat eater also are French foes, soda pop, processed carbs etc, so they can’t show valid results.
@@kiwikim5163 Moreover, if one understands the Warburg Effect, one would understand that if you just ate beef with few if any carbs, it will help to fight and prevent cancer.
It could be that it is what is eaten with the meat that has caused cancer.
Great job putting these conversations together and I like how you tightened up the debate schedule and you're taking more control. It is interesting to see the very limited overlap in viewpoints. And Dr Khan is so wrong about seed oils and added sugar. It's become hard for me to appreciate the vegan point of view at all. It's so hardcore ignoring human evolutionary diet. I became so allergic to so many plant foods because I have a latex allergy. And plants were definitely going to be the death of me. Love being a carnivore! Best thing I ever did for myself. Took eating the wrong things for a few years thinking I was being healthy and piling up on oxalates and ending up in the ER for me to figure it out.
Great video. It's rare nowadays to find a debate moderator that is fair to both sides and is not pushing their own biases into the debate. Well done!
She did push her bias on her channel for carnivorism.
@EmilyGloeggler7984 on her channel yes, but the debate was moderated fairly.
I love the fact that both professionals agree that lifestyle changes and choices are best instead of writing prescriptions for every little thing. That was my main reason for not going to the Dr. b/c I didn’t wanna be put on medication for things I could change on my own.
For me, the center aisles of the grocery store have become just a multi-lane freeway to get from the meat department to the checkout lanes.
I wish the meat was front and center.
😂😂😂😂
and a quick pit stop in the dairy section
Real food is where it's at.
you read my mind
I started carnivore 2 weeks ago. I have a lot of healing to do inside. I was Vegan and vegetarian and it made me sickly. In two weeks the joint swelling went down, and my clarity is sharper. Looking forward to more healing
I was also vegetarian and then Paleo. I started carnivore 95 days ago. Gut and even constipation healed! I can see my waist line as never before. Joint pain gone too!
@@mariyo08Me too! 2 and a half years as carnivore and have not had one day where I didn't feel amazing! It would take too much space and time to tell you all the health benefits I have derived by eating a carnivore diet.
How can you stomach eating an animal that had a digestive system and a face? Ethically I just cannot. 🤢
@kathleenphillips7145 Well, medically, I just cannot eat plants. The fiber and toxins in them destroyed my gut. The only things I can eat are eggs and meat and seafood. So medically speaking, I can't eat anything else unless I want to be doubled over in pain and in the bathroom all day. I have also gotten rid of all my joint pain, my high BP, my pre-diabetes, painful arthritis in my hands and elsewhere is gone, my sleep has improved, my lifelong dry skin is gone. Shall I go on? I did this diet as a last resort to see if it would help me feel better. And it did. I feel better than I did in my 30's. It was like a miracle for me. I am 76, and I feel amazing every day! My health is the most important thing to me. I don't care what anyone else eats.
@@kathleenphillips7145 it's up to you, if you heal when you change food, I prefer that, the other is just emotional arguments.
When I was a vegan (4 years) I was amazed at how rage-filled and closed minded my fellow vegans were. These days, (I am 82 years old) I eat a low carb diet and my weight has come down, I am not longer in the pre-diabetic range and I am no longer on blood pressure meds. I don't need attack vegans but that wasn't healthy diet for me--I gained weight, was always hungry, snacking all the time. Dr Kahn has the mind of a religious fundamentalist like so many of the vegans I knew.
Thank you for sharing your perspective! So happy you’ve found health :) so happy for you and very happy to have you here my friend
I have also noticed that TH-cam vegans seem angry and aggressive, and spread veganism as though it is a religion. In reality, it's all about the elimination of processed junk food.
If you're snacking, maybe you just didn't eat the right things in the right quantities ?
If you can go back to eating meat, you were never a vegan. You ate a plant based diet and that was it. A vegan quits eating animals out of respect for their right to live, free of interference from us.
@@brunetyannick1174 snacking is fundamentally a symptom of a carb based diet... its not about the quantities but rather how the body deals with carbs...
Seed oils are by definition a highly processed food. Khan is so wrong on that. And the fact that he is Ancel Keys biographer is extremely irritating to me. He was one of the biggest producers of propaganda historically regarding diet. I will acknowledge that he lived 100 years so he must have been doing something that worked for him.
Ancel Keys was enjoying fatty red meats regularly behind the scenes. He didn’t practice what he preached. He was bought and paid for by Big Parma and the Food industry.
The studies are on Kahn’s side, plenty of studies showing that WFPB reverses or helps to stall atherosclerosis. Absolutely ZERO carnivore studies showing the same thing. But telling people what they want to hear pays more, and so does the beef industry. Trust me Okra and Celery farmers don’t have much in the way of financial influence. People like to be told that their bad habits are ok.
@@AgrippaMaxentiusKahn has conned you obviously! You are clueless. But I don't care. You do just exactly what you want to do. I'm going to stay carnivore and keep pain-free and no fatty liver from fruits and no diverticulitis from roughage that I don't need. No gallstones from not eating enough fat. There is 100 million times more evidence for the carnivore diet then there is for carbohydrate eating and plant eating. Check out the Paleo anthropological record. Ever see any cave paintings where heads of lettuce were depicted? Nope.
@@AgrippaMaxentius Amen. Sincerely, a logical omnivore.
@@AgrippaMaxentius You're just plain wrong. There are studies showing the benefits of the CD. Many many times more to the contrary though, because they're paid for by sugar & processed food companies! And these studies are mostly epidemalogical anyway, the weakest kind.
Admirable composture of Lauren inspite of Dr. Kahn's correction, stayed calm and beautiful.
Canola / vegetable / seed oils ARE HIGHLY PROCESSED 🤨
How can a doctor say processed foods are bad, but highly processed seed oils are good?
Dr. Ovadia is the BEST!
Thank you for the support.
@@IFixHeartsI agree y😊u are the best!!
I love him too!
He basically spent a hour making a fool of himself spouting nonsense… but yeah if that’s your idea of the best 🙈
👏👏👏👏
Lauren, I have really enjoyed your approach to informing us in these debates/discussions. Dang good work!
Great job hosting Lauren! One of the best 2 sided debates I’ve seen 🙌🙏
I lowered my Lp(a) by 80nmol/L after 4 months on zero carb carnivore diet. My cardiologist told me this was a hereditary condition and there was no way to lower it.
Various things including disease can transiently reduce Lp(a) however this doesn’t mean that they overall lower cardiovascular risk overall. At the end of the day something might lower something or increase something but the outcome is what matters
While I was low carb, my Lp(a) lowered when I started taking niacin. It only lasted awhile, though, as it quit working. I quit taking the niacin when I read that it can cause increased blood glucose. At that point I’d been carnivore for a year. Unfortunately, being strict carnivore hasn’t reduced my Lp(a). My ApoB is still high on carnivore, too. That won’t deter me from staying carnivore, though, since I’ve seen many benefits, including resolving my sugar addiction.
THANK YOU Dr. Ovadia for bringing up the harm of seed oils.
I agree….. I don’t understand why dr Kahn will not agree on this point because philosophically he does agree…… “you won’t find them in my house “
We all have known how our medical establishment has jumped on bad science and refused to re-evaluate until someone finally makes enough of a fuss about the facts and wakes up the conversation.
The assertion of safety rests on a mere hypothesis, not empirical evidence. Dr. Khan’s preference for organic canola oil underscores a shift towards healthier alternatives. The crux of the Minnesota Coronary Experiment’s controversy lies in its use of margarine, a product historically riddled with trans fats. Although unrecognized as a health risk during the 1970s, trans fats are now implicated in adverse health outcomes. The study’s lack of precise dosage data further complicates the interpretation of its findings, rendering it an incomplete chapter in the annals of nutritional science
What harm of seed oils? Can you share a human trial showing they’re harmful?
@@Mr-hq6ox They would only have the one that used margarine containing Trans Fatty Acids
25 minutes in and love the discussion. I admit I am a carnivore and have no plans to go vegan but glad to hear two sides and in many cases similar approaches but different treatment styles. I am definitely a Dr Ovadia fan. I hope to stay off of his operating table as he says.
Thanks you for watching
You probably never even heard of ovadia before this. You just sided with the meat guy before you ever heard the whole debate. You carnis have your mind made up and nothing could ever change it , not even after it kills people.
@@IFixHeartswe truly love you Dr. Ovadia, thank you for all you do ♥️🙏🏼.
Glad to see the ‘Ketogenic’ textbook on Dr Ovadia’s bookshelf. Here is a medical professional who is keeping up on his reading! 👏
Statins also induce insulin resistance. They do not reduce the incidence of heart disease, increase muscle pain and damage, and liver damage.
Also may cause dementia
Statins caused me agonizing night muscle cramps. I threw all statins in my garbage pile ! ! !
@@Miraak1868 good for you
@@Miraak1868were you prescribed a statin because of high ldl and a high CAC score both?
@@heynow01 I would guess high ldl. I am over 60 so high ldl is good for me.
I've been a 'healthy' low fat omnivore (increasing health issues), plant based for 2 years (abject failure) and now carnivore for 4+ years (amazing!). I will say that without question, the carnivore diet is the healthiest and has eliminated ALL my health issues. I just wish we could agree that, irrespective of plant based or animal based, we can be healthy if we eat locally, seasonally and avoid processed foods and seed oils. Dr Kahn may well think he's healthy eating plants, but is he optimally healthy? Probably not. And his ignorance concerning LDL was shocking but not surprising.
Not to mention B12 deficiency!!
What does it mean abject failure? With absolute honesty what did your diet look like? Was it only whole food? Did you take b12? Oh the saaaad vegan diet doesn’t come with b12 naturally. Nice that farmers feed livestock with pharmaceutical b12 in their food because b12 is missing in our diet because of the sanitation of the environment. You can get b12 from dirt in the nature, pop a supplement which low carb people low popping supplements, or eat in a cow that ate b12 supplement for you. Tough decision right?
He needs to talk with Kerry Mann from HomesteadHow; a lifetime of heart issues gone by adopting the carnivore diet.
god bless Dr. Ovadia. I'm praying he's right. This feels like my last chance to heal.
Please try carnivore. I suffered from gallbladder issues in 2017-2018. Carnivore helped me tremendously. It saved my gallbladder.
Very nice interviews Lauren. I like that it was a respectful debate between two highly educated colleagues who seemed to have an equally shared goal for optimal human health for their patients. Neither have a my way or the highway viewpoint and I think we need more of this.
No, that just creates more confusion. Ultimately us viewers are watching these debates to arrive at a destination about optimal health
Very calm, good moderator who did not take offense when she could have.
She was rightfully corrected. If you knew as much as him you would stand up from your seat and shout. You aren’t so it’s okay to not understand how very wrong her statement was
I have only watched 11 minutes of this video. I never comment. I am thrilled that someone is doing some face to face opposing view videos. I have only seen Dr Berry and Dr Saladeno do an interview where they didn’t totally agree. I applaud both these doctors for thier willingness. Huge shout out to Lauren for bringing this together and so far anyway holding it respectful. Great job. I hope other major influencers will follow suite.
Agree that insulin resistance is at the root of all metobolic diseases. Chronic high levels of insulin is directly related to too much glucose in the body. Meat and fat do not induce insulin responses. Carbs do
fact
age 73 - T2 insulin dependent - 20 months keto / Carnivore - weight loss 36kgs - HBA1C 5.6 from 8.5 - BP 117/62 from 155/90 - IR 2.0 from 3.8 - Daily Insulin 9 units from 140 - all kidney / liver markers improved - LDL slightly up - HDL up - Trigs down - pant size 34 from 46 - a vegan diet for some people seems to be sustainable - room for all
Love hearing this 🙌🏼. So happy for you 🙏🏼.
@@laurengianna9944 its all about too many carbs / sugars any reduction from SAD is on the right path - no need for extremes - find your lane - down another 1kg + latest IR = trigs/hdl ratio is now 1.4 - weight loss slow as less than 10kgs to go for target weight of abt 75Kgs - enjoy
Red meat does NOT cause inflammation, in fact probably reduces or eliminates it!!!!! My opinion based on experience. Sugar and high carb diet does, however. (also based on experience, my own that is)
Without carbs sure, with carbs maybe It can be bad (with starches or bad digestion)
@@miraak8523 Thanks for the reply!!!! (and the testimony of a carnivore diet)
Dr Kahn only needs to look in the mirror to see the swelling in his face and sinuses😅
Oooooh based on your experience it reduces inflammation??
Could you feel all that inflammation in your arterial walls bro??
Damn, you could really provide huge usage to the world of science with your superhuman abilities!!
@@spikyball5883
If you have inflammation on the outside, it’s highly likely you have inflammation on the inside. If that inflammation on the outside clears up, it’s likely the inflammation on the inside has also cleared up.
I was a vegan and or vegetarian and I was in terrible shape. I feel so much better eating a meat-based diet.
Me too
I have been vegan since 2018 and I am in amazing shape. I feel so much better eating a plant based diet. I think it is a lot more nuanced than just saying i was vegan and or vegeterian... vegetarian can mean dairy/eggs which is a big part of the carnivore diet. I think humans can thrive on either diet provided we exercise and stay happy and healthy. The long term impacts of going carnivore are unknown and will only be know in the next 30-40 years when the current internet meat doctors hit 90.
@@spinachtriangle actually it is the opposite, humans have been eating meat for ages, only in the last 10,000 yrs agriculture has been developed. The muscle gain with meat is ridiculous. I was vegan for almost 9 yrs, no cheating, and I can say I deteriorated with time. Pay attention my brother to your mass, strength, drive, energy, joints, mood, wish u the best
@spinachtriangle I did both. I feel way better on the carnivore diet and honestly, it's easier. But I have hashimotos, so maybe that is a factor.
@@michaelstephens9852 have u tried lugol ?
Gave vegan 2 1/2 years and was always hungry and tired. I broke my ankle running and gained 40 lbs because I couldn’t workout 3 hours a day like I was. I am now carnivore 3 months have lost 20 lbs of fat gained in muscle, feel great, and I am never hangry. 65 years old endless energy!
Anecdotal lies... is that all you clowns have
AS A PHYSICIAN I AGREE 100% WITH DR. OVADIA.
Well we know how much nutrition study you get as a physician. Your degree carries about as much weight as your average personal trainer. We all know how to read a study… the difficulty is understanding seemingly conflicting evidence… that’s why you can find Physicians on every side of every nutritional debate…
@@chamev3008absolutely,and poor Dr Kahn is dying of oxalates he knows nothing about,-No One Is Coming to Save You-
I'm sorry but when Dr. Kahn described his history and thoughts around Ansel Keys, he instantly lost all credibility with me. He shut me down on hearing anything else he had to say. Ansel Keys was never part of the solution but rather part of the problem.
Totally agree. That vegan doc just proved to me that he’s a knob when he banged on about Ansel Keys. Typical of vegan health experts!
Agree!
Yup. Shows his ignorance and/or dishonesty.
That and clearly not paying attention while doomscrolling studies as Dr. Ovadia spoke. So disrespectful.
Absolutely Correct from Australia
Great job bringing these two doctors together for this discussion. One of the several points of note was with Dr. Kahn and his dismissive choice of words and overreaction to Ancel Keys questions. I question this type of approach.
It’s ok to be dismissive of ideas with no quality research to support them
This is most excellent...i lean carnivore but i appreciated hearing both sides. And Lauren you did a fantastic job of moderating...very fair and professional.
Lauren, I love your channel. These intelligent debates are great, and you do a great job moderating!
You are very sweet thank you my friend, very happy that you are here and the channel found you ✨💛
Kerry from homesteadhow was diagnosed with congestive heart failure, which they say is an irreversible condition. A year of eating a carnivore diet healed his heart. ❤
Unfortunately for many doctors these are "isolated cases" that are not relevant to science because for genera practice they can't rely on things like that, regardless that those "isolated cases" have become hundreds of thousands they are still waiting for "real science" to study and tell them if that if is real or not. Sad, sad, sad,. The whole medicine industry is sad.
Why is your picture upside down?
@@slydog7131 It's the photo from my song "hangin'"...inside out, upside down, topsy turvy, round and round and round...
@@slydog7131 Also, the food pyramid makes a lot more sense from this perspective. 😜
He also was caught lying to people and even Ovadia indirectly admitted eating plants is better than processed junk.
Wow! What a GREAT interview! Huge props for this desperately needed cultural CPR. We can have civil conversations and our own opinions and self control and lively discussion and still retain our worth as people! Thank you for this Lauren, Dr. Khan and Dr. Ovadia, great work and very helpful for all of us trying to work this out!
I'm sorry my friend, but this was not a very good interview. Dr Khan is not a good debater and should have dispatched this quack he was opposing multiple times with study data that he could have cited but failed to. I suggest you watch the following "debate" between another popular carnivore quack, Anthony Chaffee and a whole food plant based advocate Matt Nagra. It's long but well worth it. Let me know then who makes the better case. It could save your life. Good luck and God Bless.
th-cam.com/video/3FFV0w55k2I/w-d-xo.html
My personal take is that we're somewhere in the middle, I enjoy berries and salad aswell as ribeye steaks, eggs and dairy.
I think animal products build bodies and plants/fruits detox the body. Kids needs plenty of high quality animal products.
Just my take.
I enjoyed this convo and love to practice keeping my mind open. I'm carnivore 2 years, I tell people what keeps me going has nothing to do with science or history, it has to do with how I feel. The diet that works AND that you can stick to long enough for it to work is the right one for you. But if I had to choose a diet to follow based off how the other people who follow the diet look, I'd choose carnivore every time, they most often present as a picture of Health compared to a vegan 🤔
Why swing to extremes why not healthy omnivore? Im 52 very healthy and have been omnivore all my life 🤷♂️
@@888jucu Many different reasons, most often people try extremes because they have a health problem of some sort and this fixes it for them. If you are healthy you probably wouldn't have much cause to change 🙂
@@MyFlowRiders Yes that is my assessment also e.g if have some condition e.g IBS etc then trying some sort of elimination diet makes sense. If people are just trying to do something for weight loss then going Carnivore may get immediate improvement if for example they stop eating highly processed crap but I believe a balanced diet of mostly natural or minimally processed would be better in the long term but who am I to say 👍🤣
It’s often a way to heal. No one has to be carnicore forever, ut they can temporarily to heal and end food addiction
@@MyFlowRiders But isn't it much wiser to NOT wait until you are ill to do something about it. Which diet gives you the best prognosis to NOT become ill? Isn't it wiser to look at why so many people are getting metabolically unhealthy with diabetes, heart disease, cancer and Alzheimer's and try to prevent them? I see far better outcomes and results from the carnivore camp than the plant-based diet camp. And the science and anthropology back it up. Man did not evolve to be vegetarian - our gut does not support it. We're the only animals that try to eat what we're not designed to eat.
Dr. Khan looks unhappy and unhealthy. Dr. Ovadia looks happy and vibrant.
He does not look unhealthy. He looks leaner in the face than the other guy who looks pudgy which is indicative of eating too much of something. Kahn is also older.
There is a 20 year age difference between these two doctors!
@@ddhqj2023he looks VERY unhappy and VERY unhealthy.
@@dbuck1964 For a man his age who is not puffed out and fat in the face which so many are these days, he looks good. You're just used to seeing fat people and they look puffy instead of thin in the face. And I'll bet some people would say that you look unhappy most of the time too. Let's quit judging people by how their faces look. You don't know if he's happy or unhappy and that isn't the issue is it?
@@ddhqj2023don't judge others by how there faces look you say right after you judge someone saying they are probably around fat people with fat faces...I think they both look fine.ovida said he was obese for years and kahn is an older man..maybe the answer is a little of eating both..along with the things they agree on of course
Getting these docs together in the same video, directly debating, the establishment (pro statin/pro veggie) vs. the new carnivore movement, is brilliant! Thank you!
Excellent discussion! Thanks for setting this up and sharing!
Even though I'm on TEAM CARNIVORE, I appreciate Dr. Kahn on taking the time to engage on the addressed issues. Even though he's on the plant based side of things, he treats patients on a case by case basis just as doctors should. It was very informative and educational listening to these two duke it out, and it's always refreshing to be reminded why I am on TEAM CARNIVORE.
Dr Khan’s personality automatically turns me off from his opinions. Anyone who turns to personal insults when arguing a point blows any credibility they have, imo.
Shawn baker like to pick on vegans so that's okay???
I can put my money to see Dr Baker against this plant MD any time. The plant doctor will lose on the first look on both of them.
Exactly!!! That tells me they truly are brainwashed by "research" bought and paid for by food companies and big pharma.
@BrBr-dh5ec that's a different person. Elliecourtney was simply saying THIS guy Dr Khan turns her off because HE turns to personal insult. What Dr Baker does is not a reflection of Dr khan, nor an argument that has anything to do with Dr khan.
I just watched Bart Kay go over the Randle cycle again, and he makes it clear not to mix a high fat diet with a high carb diet.
Either eat a high fat diet (carnivore) and eliminate eating all carbs, or, if you're going to eat a high carb diet, eat lean meat (if you eat meat) and keep your fat intake extremely low. This is how veganism/vegetarianism can be healthy compared to the typical American diet (assuming you're not constantly eating vegan junk food).
How well you do on a vegan diet depends on whether your body has the ability to derive enough nutrients from fruits, vegetables, and legumes. Many people do not have that ability and suffer from various nutrient deficiencies the longer they're on the diet. Some people do well on the diet and can stick with it long-term.
Just don't mix a high fat diet with a high carb diet. Pick one or the other.
Dr . Ovadia supporter here too!
Of course , people like to be told their bad habits are just fine. Doctors in the 50s overwhelmingly recommended smoking, they even had their favorite brands! But people with intelligence look at the studies, and the studies show plant based diets reverse or stall heart disease. Can’t say the same about meat.
@@AgrippaMaxentiusmainstream grain fed meats.. not the good healthy grass fed chemical free healthy fat meats! enjoy you broccoli.
Excellent interview. I love Dr. Ovadia.
Thank u for your channel and this conversation greatly aappreciate you and your channel❤
Based on my own experience with my own body over the past 6 years, Dr. Kahn's spiel is significantly flawed. Some of his claims seem exaggerated or even baseless. The vegan diet to me was completely impossible because of my insulin resistance (40% of the US young adult population is insulin resistant) and gut distress from legumes, nuts , etc. Both carnivore and carnivore-leaning keto diets have worked wonderfully for me.
I will admit that before this video I was a fan of Dr. Ovadia.
Now after watching this I'm a SUPER FAN.
Lol
I am finally healthy after dropping the 6 years of plant based diet. 20 months of Ketovore and doing so much better, hallelujah.
Our own Bio-individuality is all I can figure out.
Dr. Ovadia supporter here!
Thanks you for watching 🫀
@@IFixHearts absolutely! ☺️
Great work Dr Ovadia
Zero carbs, low or no sugar, pure meat, eggs, cheese, no seed oils, and select fruits and vegetables for filling in extra requirements. That’s basically everything that works for me. Tried and tested.
IMO and experience (family members also) sugar and seed oils are much more dangerous than the “traditional” things claimed to cause heart disease.
Very rare respectfully debating. Valuable info from both side. It gives hope that we can work together for a never ending progress in honest science❤
Lauren at the end mentioned the "search for Truth"!
This is what everyone should be pursuing.
Dr. Ovadia is the man!
They’re both quacks and liars.
Great interview. Keep up the good work!
So for the people who are saying they are on one side or the other: there is no side. They both agree that PERSONALIZED medicine is the way. There are too much variability between people, whether its genetic, environmental, lifestyle, etc...Best we will ever be able to do is to is adapt treatments to individuals after thorough evaluation.
Wow, a sensible response. That’s not gonna get many likes.
Why didn't you talk about oxalate,, phytate and lectins in plants?
Dr. Ovadia won this debate by far. Dr. Kahn was very defensive and totally lost me when he promoted seed oils as healthy. Thinking his ego is holding him back from seeing the truth.
I noticed this behavior in him as well and it turned me off. People who just dig their heels in and start acting defensive are sending a clear message in my opinion.
Anyone defending seed oils is a shill it has nothing to do with ego. He’s being paid by certain interests.
Dr. Kahn did some serious mental gymnastics to defend Ancel Keys.
Or he has conflict of interest...
You people are high. Go back to Joe Rogan and your safe bubble of podcasts that only tell you what you want to hear, if that's what you took from this. Ovadia and Kahn AGREED on 95% of what they were discussing and you morons can only see conflict and focus on who "won". The problem isn't Ovadia or Kahn. The problem is you.
What an outstanding panel discussion ! Thanks for arranging it.
Bravo....Rare to see a good discussion between 2 different sides/perspectives. Love it
I was a vegetarian for a year and didn’t lose a pound. Carnivore diet, lost 50 pounds in 4 months. You do the math.
I was vegetarian for years and gained 50 pounds. I also developed so many issues, it is taking me years to fix, not to mention permanent damage. I am not carnivore, but I an certainly careful of what plantfood I consume. Especially in this day and age of modern farming. 😢
I’ve been whole foods plant based for a month and a half and have lost 14 lbs. Everyone is different.
@@AgrippaMaxentiusI've been carnivore for a month and lost weight, my stomach isn't bloated, a swollen fat mass right above my belly button that used to hurt is significantly reduced, hot flashes down, finally feel satiated. I truly believe people should do what works for them as you and I are doing, as there is room to explore all kinds of ways of eating 🥩 🥦 🥚 🥕 🧀
@@Mhel2023 I whole heartedly agree (see what I did there)
Also stress plays a massive part in this too
Ancel Keys was the guy who put cigarettes into military ration packs...great guy!
He was funded by big government
Wow😮
Bottom line, more studies on animal based (carnivore and ketogenic) diets are needed…but I don’t think we will get them.
No sugar
No processed foods
No seed oils
Emphasize whole foods and you will be healthier!!!
Now, pass the ribeye!!!
Bet you can’t define processed foods or produce a single study showing seed oils are worse than saturated fats.
I find it so interesting to read the many (numerous) biased comments.. it’s human..🤷🏻♀️
I listened to this TH-cam bc I like to hear the different opinions and research to back these up. I’m still in the hunt for carnivore research for reversing heart disease.. hmm..
I know how much of a minority I am in this space 😅 but I have to say, I have been eating mostly WFPB for a couple of years now and feel amazing at 54, labs have improved in the cholesterol numbers-they we’re always fine and around 51 started to creep up. So like I mentioned in another comment.. we are all different and may have different responses to what we eat. Keeping respect and openness to others is challenging for some..
bon appetite!😃🌱🥦🥑🍠💚
For me it’s not a matter of which diet is better between the carnivore and vegan. It is a matter of what you are not eating that is not causing inflammation anymore. If you eat carnivore or vegan but still cheat with vegetable seed oil, refined carbs, ultra processed foods, you will get inflammation. I tried keto and it worked well for a while, I lost weight and put me back on a healthy weight, but after a few weeks, the flu came back and no matter how I tried to fix it, it would not fix it. Also, I tried to workout and almost passed out as my muscles where not really responding accordingly. So I gave up, but had eliminated all the trash I used to eat before keto. That flu got better next day, but took a while to go away completely even after introducing carbs back. However, years before keto, I tried vegetarianism/veganism for 4 months: clean food and I felt much better than I did on keto. Not problems at the gym at all, but after a while I started to feel sick and weak and started to crave meat. So I ate meat as diet for me is not a cult. Guess what? I got better almost instantly. The problem with carnivore and keto, is that they don’t have healthy carbs or enough carbs. The problem with veganism is the lack of some meat. So the middle is a safe ground for me (maybe not for everyone). Today I eat healthy carbs and meat! I feel great at the gym and in every thing so that’s it for me. Do what works for you and get rid of ultra processed foods
We need more grounded animal
vs plant based debates. This is excellent. Do more of these where the people don’t personally attack just like this.
Next time tell Dr. Olvidia where the camera is so he knows where to look. It would improve his self presentation. Good interview. We should have more like this.
It depends on where his computer monitor is ....🙄. Nit picking silly post..
@@marianne1959 Not at all. I'm sure he wants to be looking at the audience instead of off to the side. I really like this doctor and want him to have every advantage.
I was vegan for 2 years. That was the worse part of my life. I felt miserable and i had to stop that nonsense because of developing s bunch of symptoms of malnutrition!
Fruits spike my blood sugar! Thank God I measure my blood sugar so i know exactly what fruits do to my body
I've cut out all sugars for 90 days. I thought I'd experiment eating oranges and guava last week and guess what happened? I got huge nasty blisters on my head and arm. Who says everyone should eat fruit when some of us have such horrible reactions to it.
Same here!
Also, good to keep in mind, unfortunatelly, fructose is not shown in blood sugar testing.
Does dr Kahn really believe that fruit does not spike blood sugar.? As type 2 D I cannot even eat a small apple. I NEVER eat any fruit.
Anecdotal lies... is that all you clowns have
Hi guys, my professor in high school was vegeterian, not even full vegan, and at some point in his life the doctor told him he had to start to eat liver because of problems that he started to have due to his diet. I cannot forget this and for me it makes one thing clare, carnivore or not meat is good. Hope it helps!
Dr Chris Knobbe clearly showed how seed based oils affects ones health. All oils once heated change into dangerous by products. The biggest issue is that they oxidize very rapidly.
Really great interview by Lauren from just staying out of the way to remaining calm when the Vegan doc goes off for a bit.
Great debate!!! Finally a civil, intelligent conversation amongst doctors that was fear and unbiased. Can’t seem to find any without the vegan getting defensive and aggressive. We’re all just trying to figure out and keeping an open mind is how we do that.
Guests should be asked exactly what their chosen diet consists of, I think that would show everyone which is truly accomplishing a healthy outcome. Which one of the two can demonstrate from what they ate today meats (lol) the daily intake needed for protein and fat...that would be telling!! As a massage therapist, I have my hands on both diet choices, I can tell you the vegan/vegetarian/plant based are extremely frail!!! And rarely, if ever getting enough protein and fat.
Meat, plants, and fruits 😊
Skip all processed foods, sugar, carbs, sodas, candies, cookies, fast food, junk food, and bad oils.
Eat the foods that work for your body. Be healthy and slim ❤
Sanity has no place here. Some of these people consider eating a stick of butter daily “healthy.”
I can't eat fruits or vegetables. I had horrible IBS for 15 years until I eliminated fruits, veggies, grains, nuts and seeds from my diet. 2 1/2 years pain, bloating, gas, diarrhea and constipation free!!
@@cathiemcginnis3997lmao yeah keep telling yourself it’s from the fruit and vegetables. Lmao You people are insane
@cmad2345 my doc told me to eliminate the fiber and everything got better. Now who's the insane one?? Hmmm?
Adding Dr Nadir to the debate would be interesting. He knows the fallacy that is the research.
This was such a good discussion. So nice to see a largely respectful exchange of views on this topic. At the end of the day what we all should want is to discover truth - not just to score points for our side’s preferred dietary approach.
Good job moderating the debate, Lauren. I think both doctors did a good job representing their point of view. Minimizing processed/ultra processed foods is an approach that each side agrees on.
Been whole foods plant based 8 years lost fat gained muscle.. the real debate should be processed vs unprocessed.. maybe both plant based and carnivore help without processed foods!
Amen, well said.
Meat and veggies and some fruit like berries good to go
No studies to support your statement, but it does seem to make common sense. It’s my approach
Great debate. You have quality guests and I always learn something. At the moment I eat higher amounts of animal based protein than I have in decades and I am stronger and heal much better because of it.
thanks for this feedback, Tom! Appreciate you and so good to hear. Keep it going my friend
Did he say Tufts? The one that recommended cheerios over eggs?
No I think they recomended Lucky Charms over eggs.
@sheilacollins9384 aaahh I mustve been harvard I was thinking of
I believe it depends on your individual chemistry. So many factors to look at.
A question I would’ve asked The Doctors, if that new science that they’re waiting on comparing carnivore versus vegans would both or either of them change their diet to what the new science would show? ❓❓❓❓❓❓❓
GREAT DISCUSSION!!!!
We Need more of understanding both sides.
Great job!
Thank you Doctors and Lauren! ✅👍❓
Whole food plant diet rocks. I'm 53 and have a resting heart rate of 46 beets a minute. I have been on a whole food plant diet for 11 years and weigh only 165 lbs
Gonna grab me a Ribeye
My family members are overweight vegans and hungry all the time
Are they whole food plant based vegans or processed food vegans?
😂😂😂😂
I just want to add that I think patients ought to be asking their doctor to help them identify whether there is plaque, whether its growing, staying the same or reducing, and what is causing it. We have to push for help with this and not just accept the one size fits approach. I really respect both of these doctors for being willing to look at their patients as individuals and also listening to what their patients are saying they need and can do. That partnership is what medicine OUGHT to be.
Medicine should be always individual. But there are certain things that are not debatable. We can not change the biochemistry or the physiology or patophysiology.
If we are saying having high LDL-C puts you at risk for heart disease and we should try to lower it it is not an opinion. It is based on decades of research, hard outcome data and genetic studies.
The biggest cause of your high LDL-C is genetics, not diet. Diet and exercise are just a way to treat it without medication. Sometimes it is not enough.
We can debate how you want to lower it, make an individual concept how it fits best.
What we can not debate is that having chronically elevated LDL-C is unhealthy.
What we can debate though if it is worth the risk for you personally.
If you ask most cardiologist for a CT calcium score they flat out refuse it. You know you have a good cardiologist if they agree to give you one. Insurance will not cover it unless it is medically necessary . My cardio did order it for me and my insurance denied it. He also gave me a cheaper place to go if my insurance didn’t cover it.
Unfortunately doctors have to play the game if they want to keep their license.
Well done Lauren. First time watching. You held your cool even when Dr Kahn badly misbehaved, and was more aggressive than a hunting lion (carnivore?)
1000 days carnivore... got rid of a shopping list of illnesses.
Lies and anecdotes.
Total fabrication. The studies overwhelmingly show that WFPB diets reverse or stall atherosclerosis. Not a single carnivore study shows that. But at least you’re eating what you enjoy.
elevated cortisol will do that 😂
might want to get serum cortisol and muscle cortisol checked out before you become a walking cancer patient.
Great discussion….very informative!! More research needs to be done. I love my Keto lifestyle and I have very little inflammation. It was a game changer for me.
Dr Khan. The reports you boom boom boomed on to twitter. Were you as quick to look in to their funding?
Interesting the remark by Kahn, "They're drinking bulletproof coffee." He is suggesting that high fat diets are dangerous, because he could have said sugar and been more credible.
Right! He lost me on that one and on so many levels... seed oils, epidemiology, American Heart Association, and, and...
😂💯
Dr. Kahn's arrogance is apparent, including looking down his nose to us as he states seed oils are healthy.
Funded by big pharmaceutical, government and or big food corporations
Get some better fitting glasses!🤣
@@DobyDukeevidence?
@@Psartzlook at footnotes in most studies, the company or individuals benefiting from said stude also fund them!
I would like to hear, as a 73 yr old woman who went carnivore July 2023, why no one discusses the actual digestive challenges ‼️ Humans aren't designed to process plant material, or extract nutrition from plants. We don't have a RUMEN ‼️ "an even-toed ungulate mammal that chews the cud regurgitated from its rumen. The ruminants comprise the cattle, sheep, antelopes, deer, giraffes, and their relatives"
Then theres the challenge of the bad bacteria that are encouraged by PLANT BASED sugars especially. I recently listened to a woman who has researched this microbiome related health and the reason the good bacteria struggle to proliferate . The studies of carnivore lifestyles might be very beneficial in tracking the GUT HEALTH and finding the best diet to assist the good bacterial balance.
These kinds of debates are important. Thank you