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The Porsche 964 Carrera is considered the sweet spot of the air-cooled 911 era, and values for factory cars have rocketed in recent years. But should you still modify a 964?
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#porsche #964 #964carrera - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
£210k quid in mods? Holy Sh!t!
Great video, but having just recently finished the heavy modification of my 964, that 210k pricetag sounds fishy.
That's carbon fibre body panel and custom 4.0L territory, which as you didn't mention it I suppose this car doesn't have?
Also at that price point one might go RS, all the driving experience and the money can always be recouped.
I'll always take a modified air cooled Pcar over a stock one. There is a wealth of information and engine/brake/suspension/electronic technology available to create your built NOT bought Porsche.
Excellent channel Lee. Great presentation and knowledge you impart. I've just bought a 2003 996 c4 with 54k miles after watching your videos.
Thank you sincerely, comments like this really do make my day. Wishing you many happy miles ahead in the 996 C4!
Excellent content again Lee! I love with the 964 how it can be bone stock, modified to within an inch of its life and just about everything in between. For me personally original cars are for investment or to be gawped at in museums/collections and modified for the folk who like their driving (me😀)Please keep up the excellent work👌🏻👏🏻👍🏻
The thing is, you can do this kind of thing with prertty much any car of this era - ie pre digital. This is not peculiar to Porsche or the 964.
@@flat6croc your correct. What I was trying to say was that in the case of the 964, if you modify it with quality parts/fittings etc you will still find a buyer and will recoup at least part of what you spend. Other Porsches and indeed other makes of car this isn’t always the case ie many people only want “stock”examples.
@@guysubmarinerguy9387 I'm just not sure that's really true. Modding these cars for the most part doesn't increase the value. The market mostly values originality, not mods. That's true of Porsches as well - very much so. If you have a mega brand attached to the mods like Singer or Tuthill, ok. Otherwise, you're not getting your money back. Try selling the modded car in this video, you wouldn't get anywhere near the purchase price plus £200k spent on it. You would get more than for a stock C2, but mostly because it's got some very exotic parts and a pricey built engine - the value of the car as a breaker for the parts and engine is quite high. But most modded 964s aren't anything like this one and will be worth less than a pristine unmodified car, which is what the collectors want, rather than modified cars. If you took the unmodified car in this video and did some of the more usual mods to it you find on a lot of 964s, it would be worth less than what it is right now as a pristine original car. So, you'd have spent money on mods that actually devalue the car let alone getting some of your money back.
Love what Mr Harris has done to his modified 964 - I would rather have that over RS any day. Great video Lee. As you say, something for the purest or the updater sitting next door 👍
Cheers Toby, and agreed - I'd take that modded 964 over an RS equivalent any time.
Thanks Lee for reminding me just how much I miss my C2 unmoded. Owned it for 13years and loved it. Some years on, been thinking of getting a 964C2 or 993C2 just to "play" with.
This was most enjoyable, cheers.
Thank you, you've a nice decision ahead there in terms of 964 v 993… could be a video in that!
@@9WERKSTV Im currently trying to choose between the 2. One of them has to go at the end of the summer....😥
Stock better mod better love the 964 lovely motor I've got 964c2 stock sme mods on it love it thanks
Both fantastic cars offering a different experience. Great content as always and thank you Ian for sharing these beauties!
Agreed, cheers Ian!
Good film. I would add that car with similar dynamics can be built for far less.
Modified! ‘cause stock is boring.
They are, disappointingly.
Agree with most but not that comment on G series😆
Hi Lee, I am working on another project. (If you are still interested in my work that is). I am doing the legacy of the Porsche 917. Thanks,
The young journalist. ;)
Always coming with the material I want to watch. Cheers
How fabulous to have both !
And that stock one is the perfect stock spec, with Design 90 and flag mirrors. Fab
Would have to go with the modified car. The stock 964 is a great looking car but have always thought it sits just a little too high for a sports car
Agreed!
Air cool life 😎
Good vid, thanks Lee (and Iain). How would you compare the modded one to something like a 991 gt3 or 992 GTS. Interested to know how far apart or not given the current tech mods.
Great question, Mat! The modded 964 is very different to modern p-car metal, and arguably more rewarding to drive fast. It has a much shorter wheelbase, no driver aids, no rear steer, and the engine is properly slung out back (the F6 was moved forward slightly for the 991 and 992 to be a little more on top of the rear axle rather than fully past it) so to drive the 964 fast you have to be brave and understand how a classic 911 handles. The 991 or 992 can be driven fast in your sleep!
Modified one for me , only thing I don’t like is the shitty little screen for the suspension
It’s looks like something off a cheap 80s stereo
Well a large screen would hardly be in keeping with car
@@alanwayte432
You miss my point , no screen would be in keeping with the car !
Especially one off an 80s Amstrad graphic equaliser
And there was a time the standard cars have been affordable as used cars ....
They really need to take at look at that 3.8. I has a lot of engine knock . Something I wery wrong with timing or adjustment.
Love 964, and great film.
Best regards martin
I'm not saying this to be an idiot. I work with porsche on dayli basis, and engine knock can kill even a strong 3.8 boxer.
What absolutely ridiculous nonsense
Actually it’s not nonsense, I heard it quite clearly on the shot from outside the car when it was accelerating out of a corner, it was very clearly the sound of pre-detonation which can quite easily melt a piston.
Fantastic car though, love it!
mirrors yes leave the flags. D90s? attic
love the modified 964, not sure how anyone spent 210k on one though? Ive got the same brakes, mag bbs e28, moton suspension, fully blueprinted motor with cams, same rs interior, fully monoballed, rs hubs, weight down to 1170kg etc and ive spent less than a 1/4 of that!
Cup 1 wheels are always 17“ and the only original cup design wheels for the 964. The cup 2 wheels came with the 993. With 16” cup 1 you probably mean the 16” design 92 wheels which were an option for the 964 from 1992 to 94(?).
what the ultimate 964 should be? :)
Thanks for the video. If I buy a stock 964, how should I go about modding it? Are there good workshops in NA? And what about interior trim and where do you start finding the gauges etc. Thanks
Amazing cars! Cheers to the owner.
I’m more of an OEM+ kinda guy, but that modified 964 seems perfect (minus the $$$). Sound, aesthetics, performance. Awesome! Also, just to stir the pot 964 > 993!! 😂
Steering wheel is on the wrong side, mate.
Just curious, have a beautiful 964 that I garage away from the house, but sometimes it just gets caught in the rain for a few days.
A lot of people say not to cover the car outside however I have a custom fit cover that doesn’t seem to leave moisture underneath and protects from sun damage/ birds etc, soft inside. I do try to take off when there is no sign of rain
What are thoughts on car covers for a 1990 Porsche?
An old friend of mine had a car with a very similar spec (possibly this car), did the owner buy it with the engine gearbox work already done?
Back in the late 90s, I remember reading about the massive problem of the tear drop mirrors being stolen.
I think they were £250 each from Porsche...
The G cars are as agricultural as a John Deere is a NASCAR.
Awesome videoo. How is the suspension tuned? Did you replace the rear sway bar?
Very well done video. I always prefer stock from stem to stern. If any mods, they must be done 100 percent accurately and up to Porsche standards
What are those wheels?
Mod for more HP and reliability. To drive anywhere any time, however many miles. 😉
Would love to see the build schedule for that 210k expenditure. Could you get say 80% of the improvement for say 30% of the spend?
Yes. I’ve put 20-25k into mine and it’s absolutely flaming hot
@@Nord_Mann what did you do? coilovers? engine rebuild ?
G series , agricultural. How very dare you. 😉
Next to dinosaurs😂
Seems I've taken some stick for that comment!!
Nice one Lee
Nice vid, buuuut... a couple of (constructive) points to ponder. 🙂
- a G-series "agricultural". Really? Older, simpler, not as refined, etc. All OK. Is a Bugatti Atlantique "agricultural"? A Saturn V primitive tech? (Sorry. Don't mean to come across as pedantic, buuut...)
- in a similar vein, the 964 RS was based on older tech. So the leap forward it represented pales in contrast to later cars - especially as the 996 (which you are used to) bare bones base model C2 had the same HP rating as the massively upgraded 964 RS 3.8. So for you personally, it likely feels like a step down from your daily beater Porsche. But you need to appreciate it in that context.
As far as modifying cars goes: IMO one should enjoy a car. That means modifying, driving hard, and putting plenty of miles on the odometer. All things that lessen the value of an investment.
If I were to purchase a car as an investment, I would look at it the same way as a stock portfolio, aside from possibly enjoying looking at the car from time to time. But I'd def never drive it in anger. I own my cars for the enjoyment. No regard for their value (though almost all have appreciated significantly - save for my P38 Range Rover 🙂).
Fully appreciate your input, Steve! My reference to the impact bumper cars being agricultural is made within the context of Porsche 911 lineage - I'm afraid I have no grounding or indeed clue what the other cars are you've mentioned (that is my bad!). The G-series cars are, in my opinion, somewhat agricultural to drive by comparison to 964s, 993s etc for the very reason you highlight: they are nowhere near as refined.
It is for that reason I can appreciate and contextualise a 964 RS to the time it was from, and would never compare it to a 996. They are very different cars, and from very different times. Thanks for watching my videos and contributing your opinions, I enjoy the engagement from others and always value hearing other people's points of view - nobody is wrong or right!
964 the best
Consistently great reviews and content. Both 964s are amazing, but stock all day, everyday for me.
Thanks for the kind words, Theron.
Excellent video Lee. Both cars are amazing, 964 is the ultimate for me. Thanks
Thanks David!
Is there a chance for a decent 944 S2?
Awesome video as ever, thanks lee. It may just be the cycle mechanic in me but that michelin tyre logo needs lining up with the valve and crest on the modded car.
Very much liking your attention to detail, Kester! Hope you're well after our chat with Pinky Lai a few months back!
A Singer is my grail.
Great video as Normal bro
Awesome video Lee. After a lot of 911’s I’ve come full circle and bought back my first Porsche 911, a -90 C4 I used 2 yrs on modding and 6 yrs on missing every day.
Stock 964’s are beautiful, but somewhat boring. I’ve always said it takes 15-20k £’s to get them interesting, but 210k is insane. I guess it was a bare metal respray and a whole new interior too in that figure?
I’ve spent 25-30k on mine and it’s perfect on exhilaration but still looks stock on the outside except for the ride height, RUF wheels and RS air ducts (functional). This year alone I’ve put 8000kms on it and 10 days at tracks all over Scandinavia. It’s a riot🔥
I wonder if I’ll be as happy with my coming PTS GT4RS…
Great to see you going back to your roots, a lot of enthusiasts are doing this and turning to the older cars as new metal is too fast and too perfect out of the box. That said, your incoming 4 RS sounds awesome!
Hi Nord Mann what did you change on your C4 ?
Modded for me.
Nicely done. As a 964 owner (and having owned a 993), I appreciate the comparison here. However, I would pay quite a bit more for the well-preserved original. The primary reason for buying and maintaining a classic 911 is to experience arguably the best sports car made at the time. A 992 would leave the modified 964 here in its dust, so I’m not quite sure 200K invested here is a move I’d make. When I had my 356A, I knew it had ~60 bhp and drum brakes, and that was ok because it was a 1956 Porsche. Adding discs with ABS and dropping in a modified engine would have made it appreciably faster, but then it’s sort of a “Porsche”. The 964, as you point out, is a fine blend of classic and modern. The brakes are superb, the steering flawless, and the absence of electronic nannies delightful. Adding a traction control module seems to defeat the character of the car. All my opinion, of course - everyone has his or her own reasons for classic car ownership.
As you state it’s your opinion, having driven restomods i would for daily weekly use go in the that direction, left field example MGB V8 against Frontline MGB Abingdon, costs £100k but OMG the build quality, ride, performance is sensational...but again personal choices
@Alan Wayte: For daily driving, I agree. Most classics aren’t all that good at the modern commute. I do think the 964 is pretty capable, though, and even in desert climate the a/c works and the car runs cool. I had an MGB and yes, it would be marginal at best as a daily driver. The appeal of the 964 to me is that it more than holds its own today, whereas most classics are at their best on the lawn at car shows.
Great points, Jon. I don't think the idea is to ever "get back" the 210k spend on mods, it's for the enjoyment of driving. It all comes down to what you want from your Porsche, and how it fits into your lifestyle.
Cool video
993 is the real sweet spot for me, better out of the box performance/suspension/handling
996 is even better 😄