Nicely done. I’m privileged to own a 964 and a 993. Both built to RS Clubsport spec. So in other words, both optimised in terms of chassis performance. The 964 is the better drive
Love these. I remember them being launched and then remember not buying one in the early 2000s when they couldn’t be given away….. you live and learn! Will 996s ever go the same way? Not sure but I bought one a couple of years ago just in case 😅
Nicely done. My ‘93 is stock, and apart from replacing aged bits - fuel lines, bushings, etc. - I’m leaving it as Porsche built it. These really are great to drive, with a/c that actually works and the compact size that got lost in the years since. I had a 993, but the 964 has more of the unique feel of the classic 911.
Back in 2013, I was in a position to start putting my two car garage together. That was going to be a 964 and a VW splitscreen bus. I passed over a 964 RS for a 1958 VW bus (same money at the time) and planned to get the bus how I wanted it. That took 5 years and became a money pit. In that time, the value of 964's went stratospheric and the 964 slipped out of reach for me. Passing over a 964 RS for VW splitscreen money will most likely remain the worst car purchasing decision if my life 🤣 Great video as always 👍
@@9WERKSTV Me for one. About 12 years ago I started looking for my first Porsche, for between £12-15k I could have a nice but already ageing 964 or a newer lower milage Cayman. As it was an everyday driver guess which one I chose? The Cayman is a great sports car, but I slap myself every time I see a 964.
I'm the third owner of a '90 C2. Majority of the miles were done by the first owner in Fla. as a daily driver. Second, had it for a year, then 9-11 happened and the economy tanked and he panicked. I bought it in Feb. 2002 for 18K and still enjoy it and it stays in the garage at night while my grocery getter, Audi A7 stays outside.
I remember back in 2001 reading comparisons of the 964 vs the 993, and one of the criticisms of the 964 was that servicing was a lot more expensive as they have solid lifters. Seems crazy that I remember examples of 964s being £8-9k.
I have a 93 C2 in Grand Prix white with a cashmere interior with 39,000 miles. I wanted a 964 in white since it's introduction but, took me 25 years to be able to afford one. These cars are brilliant and like Lee said, the 964 is the most raw and involved driving experience one can have in an air cooled 911.
I’ve also driven a GPwhite/cashmere manual 964 (but c4) for a few years. Loved it a lot and missed the car when it was sold. switched to a 993 c2 and don’t miss the 964 since. The 964 is more raw, looks more like the early 911 and is the most hyped model right now. BUT the 993 is simply way more comfortable and simply the overall better car. Imo the design of the 993 is aging better but the 964 is also a great porsche. Enjoy and drive it 👍🏼
I've just purchased an incredible Guards Red 964 C2 Cabriolet with just 10,000 miles from new! It's an absolutely beautiful car to drive, full of charm, character and pure involvement. Now on the look out to add the Coupe..... love your reviews, keep up the great work. See you at a meet soon!
Demand vs supply is what I believe is the reason for the popularity of the 964, the likes of Singer and other restomods meant lower supply of the 964’s. Also 59k 964’s were built versus 63k 993’s built. Considering how old these cars are now it’s kinda difficult to determine which is a better driver, but the one that appeals to you, in a very good condition (they all drive differently at this age, so not a given to expect all 964’s or 993 to behave the same based on previous owners use) but a well set up 964 or 993 will make any interested party have happy miles of driving. However given the choice of a brand new 964 and/ or a brand new 993 and it will always be the later every single day, all day long. But back down to earth and it’s all very subjective, just choose based on your perspective!
Great video Lee. So true with values, i remember chossing an Integrale Evo back in 2001 over what was then a mint 964 for 20k, oh and you drove 20m from my house going through Hambrook :)
Watching this made me go a trip down memory lane,Buying the Car magazine with a great review and some stunning shots of the 911 type 964, must have been 1990.I ve always like the 964 especially the Targa model.Without the 964 there would have been no modern 911.
I agree with you so much. This model deserves to be driven for what it is, a latest evolution of the 911 type G. It's a bit of a shame that so many cars are modified.
Good summary Lee. Proud owner of a C2 for 13 years and sold when the bounce started, (bugga!!). Now 4.5x here in Oz. The C4 was heavy, and sleepy with the extra 85Kgs. However my rare C2 in mint condition, was a blast to drive. Once you learnt to stablise the nose on entry into a corner and then drive it around, the feed back was just awesome. The sounds, pops, creaks, door latches, etc all made it a true analog car. As for maintenance, they do not like driving in city centres due to the heating and cooling of the air cooled engine, so the seals do leak. Mine was a country long drive model and stayed dry. Plus regular servicing, and it was trouble free, cost me bugga all over 13years. Thanks for reminding me of all those fond memories.
Nice job, mate. Love my ‘93 C2 coupe 5-sp. I’ve had it for 3.5 years, just installed my sixth set of new tires. I don’t know the mileage because my grandson was riding on my lap around the neighborhood and punched the odometer button and broke the plastic gear. I asked my Porsche tech to fix it, But he opposed it. It’s got 125,000 on the clock, So he said, just let it be TMU from here. I think that since it’s a 1993 and has been religiously maintained with a Three ring binder of receipts since new, Could be the reason the engine has never been opened up. And she doesn’t leak a drop. My tech also said that it’s obvious the engine has never overheated. I love the car and drive it out in the country very hard. Every chance I get, and twice on Saturday and Sunday. If I get bored for just five minutes, I jump in that car and head straight for the twisties. She’s got long legs and loves to run between 100 and 120, But I also take her to some quick short switchbacks where I can get a little bit of oversteer slide. I’ll never sell this car.
My 964 has doubled in value since I bought it. Doesn’t stop me driving as I intended when I bought it and there’s no way I’d ever want to sell it. Sweet spot for air cooled 911 in my opinion
Thank for the video. But I can’t understand why the values have gone up so far. I had three 964 and bought them all in the 90‘s , the last one in 2001. I kept them for a time and moved on. Yes , they are pretty , they drive reasonable well but not one model is worth todays values. May the collector’s buy them all and keep them for ever. There are other cars out there for less money that give the driver the same level of enjoyment. And I never regret that I sold all three of them. 😊😊
I Own a Rs America. Absolutely love that car. It’s not fast by today’s standards. And a new 911 is a better overall car. But the driving experience in my Rs in my opinion trumps any new 911. It’s something you really can’t explain or put into words. You have to experience it.
Who changed the original steering wheel against an ugly looking after market wheel?? Unbelievable!! 😮 The 964 is to my eyes better looking than the highly praised 993…the maintenance costs though are HORRIBLE with the 964 (regular inspection about € 2.500.- already in the early 2000s - can only guess how much they are these days…because the complete engine has to be removed to the downside…not exactly a repair friendly construction!). That was most likely the reason the 964 was for the longest time „unloved“… later 911 models where way less expensive in this regard.
Let's hope the hero to zero rise happens to 986/996 twins soon. These cars saved Porsche from impending extinction and deserve more recognition. The 964 was never a great Porsche like the 993 that superceded it.
Worth nothing, the entry level because of lack of availably (Manual/Coupe) is $100k these days and climbing, I bought one last year and love it, the video is still on TH-cam search for "1989 964 Carrera 4 - One Owner with only 47,000 actual miles Rare Linen Gray Metallic" to see my car.
Truly the one that got away! I love the totality standard look especially with design 90 alloys, due to prices when the time come I expect I'll be getting a 997 instead, shame as this is my preference!
Singer have only built around 300 cars in the time they've been around. There impact on 964 prices is more to do with appeal than a reduction in numbers.
@@9WERKSTV from P.Frère 911 book, Cz is .42 for 74-89 "G" models, who drops to .41 with factory aerokit (front lip plus rear tea-tray spoiler, who also take care of lift, of course). For pre-74, original 911s it's .40 (.39 for 2.7 RS with stock aerokit). While decent in the 60s, in the 80s those weren't very good figures, as many everyday cars were in the 0.3-0.4 range. BTW, 0.6 is reaaaaally bad.
Great video. Getting a 964 C4 cabrio this week; at the risk of sounding sacrilegious, is there a recommended replacement piece for the redundant cassette holders ?
964 remains one of the poorest designs in Porsche history, with its rubber-boat-bumpers that are not aligned between front an rear. Obviously driven by US-regulation, not by Porsche designers. Anyway, taste is a personal thing. What every potential buyer needs to be cautious of: 1. you are likely to pay €90k+ for a car that once was available for €15k. Meaning, it once attracted owners who did not have the money to properly maintain and garage the machine 2. rust problems 3. high cost of maintenance, repairs and parts
Hiya Lee great vid as per .... when we are in Poole late May ask me to tell you the 964 story from Imola 1991/92 . I think it was my first encounter with a 964.
Nicely done. I’m privileged to own a 964 and a 993. Both built to RS Clubsport spec. So in other words, both optimised in terms of chassis performance. The 964 is the better drive
Another great video Lee , educational as always, facts and figures I didn’t know , so I’ve learnt something again fella 🙌
Thanks Mark!
Love these. I remember them being launched and then remember not buying one in the early 2000s when they couldn’t be given away….. you live and learn! Will 996s ever go the same way? Not sure but I bought one a couple of years ago just in case 😅
yes, 996s are surging in popularity
Nicely done. My ‘93 is stock, and apart from replacing aged bits - fuel lines, bushings, etc. - I’m leaving it as Porsche built it. These really are great to drive, with a/c that actually works and the compact size that got lost in the years since. I had a 993, but the 964 has more of the unique feel of the classic 911.
Back in 2013, I was in a position to start putting my two car garage together. That was going to be a 964 and a VW splitscreen bus.
I passed over a 964 RS for a 1958 VW bus (same money at the time) and planned to get the bus how I wanted it. That took 5 years and became a money pit. In that time, the value of 964's went stratospheric and the 964 slipped out of reach for me.
Passing over a 964 RS for VW splitscreen money will most likely remain the worst car purchasing decision if my life 🤣
Great video as always 👍
Savage! I bet there’s a few of us with 964-oriented regret out there!
@@9WERKSTV Me for one. About 12 years ago I started looking for my first Porsche, for between £12-15k I could have a nice but already ageing 964 or a newer lower milage Cayman. As it was an everyday driver guess which one I chose? The Cayman is a great sports car, but I slap myself every time I see a 964.
Great video! I have 964 and absolutely love it!
I'm the third owner of a '90 C2. Majority of the miles were done by the first owner in Fla. as a daily driver. Second, had it for a year, then 9-11 happened and the economy tanked and he panicked. I bought it in Feb. 2002 for 18K and still enjoy it and it stays in the garage at night while my grocery getter, Audi A7 stays outside.
Singer is overrated. The 964 is perfect and why back date to outdated design?
I love the 390hp, 4.0L engine mated to 6-speed manual from the 993 they use :)
I remember back in 2001 reading comparisons of the 964 vs the 993, and one of the criticisms of the 964 was that servicing was a lot more expensive as they have solid lifters. Seems crazy that I remember examples of 964s being £8-9k.
2nd request "Can you please share the ideal tire pressures you spoke about?" using 17" wheels
I have a 93 C2 in Grand Prix white with a cashmere interior with 39,000 miles. I wanted a 964 in white since it's introduction but, took me 25 years to be able to afford one. These cars are brilliant and like Lee said, the 964 is the most raw and involved driving experience one can have in an air cooled 911.
I’ve also driven a GPwhite/cashmere manual 964 (but c4) for a few years. Loved it a lot and missed the car when it was sold. switched to a 993 c2 and don’t miss the 964 since. The 964 is more raw, looks more like the early 911 and is the most hyped model right now. BUT the 993 is simply way more comfortable and simply the overall better car. Imo the design of the 993 is aging better but the 964 is also a great porsche. Enjoy and drive it 👍🏼
You think the 964 is the most raw 911? 🤔
Right!
Love my violet-blue 964 C2 Coupe.
Its a Keeper.
Im with You on that !!! I have a Mint Green 964 91 C2 Green interior 💪💪
I've just purchased an incredible Guards Red 964 C2 Cabriolet with just 10,000 miles from new! It's an absolutely beautiful car to drive, full of charm, character and pure involvement. Now on the look out to add the Coupe..... love your reviews, keep up the great work. See you at a meet soon!
Demand vs supply is what I believe is the reason for the popularity of the 964, the likes of Singer and other restomods meant lower supply of the 964’s. Also 59k 964’s were built versus 63k 993’s built.
Considering how old these cars are now it’s kinda difficult to determine which is a better driver, but the one that appeals to you, in a very good condition (they all drive differently at this age, so not a given to expect all 964’s or 993 to behave the same based on previous owners use) but a well set up 964 or 993 will make any interested party have happy miles of driving.
However given the choice of a brand new 964 and/ or a brand new 993 and it will always be the later every single day, all day long. But back down to earth and it’s all very subjective, just choose based on your perspective!
C4 never got tiptronic 😅
Love my 964 even after jumping out of a 997.2 or 718 Spyder. They are a special drive and great for the era
Great video Lee. So true with values, i remember chossing an Integrale Evo back in 2001 over what was then a mint 964 for 20k, oh and you drove 20m from my house going through Hambrook :)
100k+ In the US are to crazy!!!!! There’s a lot of options at 100k
Watching this made me go a trip down memory lane,Buying the Car magazine with a great review and some stunning shots of the 911 type 964, must have been 1990.I ve always like the 964 especially the Targa model.Without the 964 there would have been no modern 911.
I agree with you so much. This model deserves to be driven for what it is, a latest evolution of the 911 type G.
It's a bit of a shame that so many cars are modified.
Good summary Lee. Proud owner of a C2 for 13 years and sold when the bounce started, (bugga!!). Now 4.5x here in Oz.
The C4 was heavy, and sleepy with the extra 85Kgs. However my rare C2 in mint condition, was a blast to drive. Once you learnt to stablise the nose on entry into a corner and then drive it around, the feed back was just awesome. The sounds, pops, creaks, door latches, etc all made it a true analog car.
As for maintenance, they do not like driving in city centres due to the heating and cooling of the air cooled engine, so the seals do leak. Mine was a country long drive model and stayed dry. Plus regular servicing, and it was trouble free, cost me bugga all over 13years. Thanks for reminding me of all those fond memories.
Tiptronic's were only C2's IIRC.
Ciao, the c4 tiptronic doesn't exist.
You’ve passed the test ✅
@@9WERKSTV 😅
I was about to post that - if there's a C4 Tip Targa...I'll take it cheap ;)
Nice job, mate. Love my ‘93 C2 coupe 5-sp. I’ve had it for 3.5 years, just installed my sixth set of new tires.
I don’t know the mileage because my grandson was riding on my lap around the neighborhood and punched the odometer button and broke the plastic gear. I asked my Porsche tech to fix it, But he opposed it. It’s got 125,000 on the clock, So he said, just let it be TMU from here. I think that since it’s a 1993 and has been religiously maintained with a Three ring binder of receipts since new, Could be the reason the engine has never been opened up. And she doesn’t leak a drop. My tech also said that it’s obvious the engine has never overheated.
I love the car and drive it out in the country very hard. Every chance I get, and twice on Saturday and Sunday. If I get bored for just five minutes, I jump in that car and head straight for the twisties. She’s got long legs and loves to run between 100 and 120, But I also take her to some quick short switchbacks where I can get a little bit of oversteer slide.
I’ll never sell this car.
This lovely C4 is featured in a fantastic “3 of a different kind” magazine article.
The 964 and the 930 3.0 are the best 911 ever!
My 964 has doubled in value since I bought it. Doesn’t stop me driving as I intended when I bought it and there’s no way I’d ever want to sell it. Sweet spot for air cooled 911 in my opinion
Thank for the video. But I can’t understand why the values have gone up so far. I had three 964 and bought them all in the 90‘s , the last one in 2001. I kept them for a time and moved on. Yes , they are pretty , they drive reasonable well but not one model is worth todays values. May the collector’s buy them all and keep them for ever. There are other cars out there for less money that give the driver the same level of enjoyment. And I never regret that I sold all three of them. 😊😊
I’ve got a 91 c2. I’ve had it for 16 years and absolutely love it. I feel like I stole it. I only paid $17k for it. It’s the car in my avatar.
For a brand we all love we have a lot of unloved models that are later appreciated lol
Most people don’t drive them anymore. I like to drive my car and if I just want to look at one I’ll go to a car museum.
My father got in at the right time... 2012 he bought his! It's only gone up since!
Can you please share the ideal tire pressures you spoke about?
I've had my eye on a 964 targa for 8 yrs. Pricing has gone way up
What exact Fuchs wheels are these?
Fantastic vid. More of these plssss!!!
Haha. What year is your 964?!
Everybody doesn't want a 996... please don't push false narratives
Many 996 buyers are settling for one due to budget
So nice to see your passion for the 964, Lee! I love mine and according to the reception when I drive it... many people do 😊
I can see why you love it so much, Jakko! They're great cars.
I always liked these.
I
Own a Rs America. Absolutely love that car. It’s not fast by today’s standards. And a new 911 is a better overall car. But the driving experience in my Rs in my opinion trumps any new 911. It’s something you really can’t explain or put into words. You have to experience it.
Who changed the original steering wheel against an ugly looking after market wheel?? Unbelievable!! 😮
The 964 is to my eyes better looking than the highly praised 993…the maintenance costs though are HORRIBLE with the 964
(regular inspection about € 2.500.- already in the early 2000s - can only guess how much they are these days…because the complete engine has to be removed to the downside…not exactly a repair friendly construction!). That was most likely the reason the 964 was for the longest time „unloved“… later 911 models where way less expensive in this regard.
Let's hope the hero to zero rise happens to 986/996 twins soon. These cars saved Porsche from impending extinction and deserve more recognition.
The 964 was never a great Porsche like the 993 that superceded it.
I own a 1995 911 built in April 1994 USA Car. Porsche said 80% of the Car is new ,Well 80% of the part numbers start with number 964.
That car you were driving is nearly PERFECT, IMHO 🤩😍🥰
Midnight blue with black Fuchs wheels & black interior is how I'd have my 911.
Worth nothing, the entry level because of lack of availably (Manual/Coupe) is $100k these days and climbing, I bought one last year and love it, the video is still on TH-cam search for "1989 964 Carrera 4 - One Owner with only 47,000 actual miles Rare Linen Gray Metallic" to see my car.
MichaelG
3 weeks ago I wrote twice now this is the 3rd request "Can you please share the ideal tire pressures you spoke about?" using 17" wheels
It's been a year since your last 997 video, just saying 👀
Oof, that's a good point, Ken. I am planning a cool 997 video currently!
@@9WERKSTV can’t wait!
Truly the one that got away! I love the totality standard look especially with design 90 alloys, due to prices when the time come I expect I'll be getting a 997 instead, shame as this is my preference!
That drag coefficient change is crazy. Interesting stuff.
Great video. I have a 94 factory widebody WTL.
I wish I had never sold mine.😮💨😔
I still can't get with the styling being half way modern and classic,it just looks like a mistake
Long hood and G body or 993 for me
Rear windscreen wiper..........I'm out.
Another great video..thank you. Well done.
Singer have only built around 300 cars in the time they've been around. There impact on 964 prices is more to do with appeal than a reduction in numbers.
Closer to 500 now.
12 grand? Lee rubbing it in 😢
Good content here.
Btw, G-series Cz was around 0.4 (0.39 to 0.42), not 0.59.
Thanks for the kind words. From my research the G-series is .59!
@@9WERKSTV from P.Frère 911 book, Cz is .42 for 74-89 "G" models, who drops to .41 with factory aerokit (front lip plus rear tea-tray spoiler, who also take care of lift, of course). For pre-74, original 911s it's .40 (.39 for 2.7 RS with stock aerokit).
While decent in the 60s, in the 80s those weren't very good figures, as many everyday cars were in the 0.3-0.4 range.
BTW, 0.6 is reaaaaally bad.
Great video. Getting a 964 C4 cabrio this week; at the risk of sounding sacrilegious, is there a recommended replacement piece for the redundant cassette holders ?
Blaupunkt do a great unit with Bluetooth and hands free built in for about £130. Looks original ish. I have one in mine.
Pelican parts sells a cassette tray replacement dish. Porsche Classic sells a great Bluetooth mobile phone stereo.
Could you do some videos on the Cayman/Boxster?
Sure!
964 remains one of the poorest designs in Porsche history, with its rubber-boat-bumpers that are not aligned between front an rear. Obviously driven by US-regulation, not by Porsche designers. Anyway, taste is a personal thing.
What every potential buyer needs to be cautious of:
1. you are likely to pay €90k+ for a car that once was available for €15k. Meaning, it once attracted owners who did not have the money to properly maintain and garage the machine
2. rust problems
3. high cost of maintenance, repairs and parts
Especially the 964 turbo is an absolute Beauty from a 911 lineup 😊
Hiya Lee great vid as per .... when we are in Poole late May ask me to tell you the 964 story from Imola 1991/92 . I think it was my first encounter with a 964.