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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2024
- Guns & Gears have added a completely new type of weapon available to characters in Pathfinder 2e! Firearms are a new type of ranged weapon and come with a massive amount of new traits! Let's talk about how they work and how good they are!
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Important correction: the concussive trait does not make the gun deal bludgeoning damage-it always deals piercing damage no matter what. It makes that piercing damage use the lower resistance between piercing and bludgeoning and the higher weakness between the two; in either case, it remains piercing damage. This is important because this means that if the creature is weak to bludgeoning, you get to use that weakness, but the damage remains piercing, so it can still trigger effects based on piercing, such as injury poisons you've applied to the bullets, whereas bludgeoning damage wouldn't trigger that poison.
Incidentally, this also means it prevents you from adding a crushing rune, since you can only etch them onto bludgeoning weapons.
I was wondering what he meant because he said lower resistance and lower weakness thanks for clearing that up
Paizo Designer 1: What kind of firearm can we give Goblins?
Paizo Designer 2: How about a Buzzsaw Blade Launcher!
Paizo Designer 1: Perfect!!
Reminds me of attaching a razorwire trap to a crossbow bolt in Dishonoured
Just like in Unreal Tournament
Just to clarify, a loaded fire lance can be used as a melee spear, so that's the advantage over the musket.
Could be neat on a cleric with deadly simplicity. Probably doesn't boost the gun damage but it's a nice fallback plan after firing.
That's something I learned while reading the armor descriptions: you *should be reading* every item description, not just their stats on a table. Did you know all heavy armor comes with a free light armor (padded, I think) *AND* gauntlets (as a weapon)?
@@SuikoRyos that actually makes a fuck load of sense. you dont put metal armor on bare skid, theres padding under that shit.
My first thought, probably stupid and completely unfounded, is: house ruled/modified trip or grapple attack to stab with the spear and if it succeeds then fire the gun portion to get an automatic hit.
I've never played pathfinder, so I don't know if that would be super overpowered, underpowered, or what, but that's my first thought.
9:11 Nonat - "These firearms are simple, so they're available for every class in the game!"
Wizards - *Sad staff and crossbow noises*
Bu but but wizard with a pistol is a thing! ...right? Right? ...awwww...
*laughs in multiclass*
Evolve little one....
Important Correction: Double Barrel, when you fire both barrels at the same time the size of the normal die gets upgraded, but *so does* the Fatal die.
That's what he said.
He just said Fatal trait instead of Fatal die. Different word, same meaning.
@@SquirrelGamez except he later forgets that fact when talking about a couple of the martial firearms.
@@HenshinFanatic Correct, particularly when talking about the actual double barrel gun sand comparing them to the dwarven clan pistol.
@@SquirrelGamez the correction was to the part at 14:47 where he forgets this, and doesn't see the benefits of the double-barrelled musket (DBM).
EDIT: Incidentally, if one were to take his objection to the DBM, and apply it to the double-barrelled pistol(DBP) (with the correct rules), I believe it now all applies. (it's clear that he wasn't doing this by mistake, from both the order that he read the Clan pistol, DBM, DBP, and from the numbers he's reading when he does so)
Of note, dwarves can treat a dwarven scattergun as a martial weapon with the right ancestry feats. So for the right dwarf, the scattergun has the same proficiency level as the blunderbuss but gets more range and double mileage out of large bore modifications (since large bore modifications will raise both the kickback damage and the scatter radius). So a blunderbuss with large bore modifications has a base damage profile of 1d8 + 1 (scatter 15 feet), while the dwarven scattergun is doing 1d8 + 3 (scatter 15 feet). With a point of damage being roughly equivalent to a die step up, that means the blunderbuss is hitting the same average damage as a d10 weapon while the scattergun has the damage profile of a "d14" weapon. As you add on progressive striking runes the impact of kickback will trail down, but it maps to the same progression as an archer using a propulsive bow (1/2 of 16 Str mod to damage is +1, at level 5 you can bump your Strength up to 18 which brings propulsive up to +2 and is when large bore modifications become available to reach the same number on a gun; the only way for propulsive to outscale kickback is on a character who starts with 18 STR and 16 DEX, but losing a point of accuracy costs you more DPR than you gain.)
15:30 Double barrel actually upgrades the fatal damage die if it exists too. So, if using the double barrels, you'd be doing 3d12* on a crit.
By contrast a clan pistol will be doing 3d10*.
(*technically, it's 1dX * 2 + 1dX, since crits double damage, not dice)
It’s a nonat thing that he doubles dice and damage bonuses on crits
@@blankiecat9302 yeah, but people might still not know that and might not know that that's how it is by default.
@@Zedrinbot so True every time I hear that it's like your wrong the book says this.
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A bow monk with agile pistols using flurry of blows isn't just awesome, A bow monk with agile pistols using flurry of blows is PATHFINDER JOHN WICK.
Allow me to point out something that a GM might allow about the air guns that the other guns don't have - namely, the ability to shoot underwater. Those adorable little popguns use an air pump to shoot, not gunpowder, so water doesn't exactly hinder their functionality...
And while I doubt that'd be watertight enough for them to shoot *underwater* per se, in *Japan* , which Minkai's obviously modeled after, firearms, known as Tanegashima (after the island through which they first came to Japan) had their firing mechanisms protected by a lacuerware covering fitted over them allowing them to be fired even in the *rain* , something *European* firearms could *never* do. That could *definitely* be a mechanical thing in a game like Pathfinder.
OF coarse the Flingflenser would have Backstabber, you'll be stabbing a lot of backs from range with it.
A loaded Fire Lance can be wielded as a normal spear, though it requires an Interact action to regrip the weapon and hold it properly when switching from one use to another. That its benefit. Also when are you covering the combination weapons.
@9:40 - If you, too, are interested in a Gun Monk, I'd recommend taking a look at the Bullet Dancer archetype in the Guns section of the Guns & Gears book.
It shows Paizo has an understanding of their audience by putting in a Gun Kata archetype. Sooooo many devs miss that. However, as much as I want to play a Gun Kata monk I gotta do laser eye Construct monk first.
Laser. Eye. Monk. Still can't get over that.
I feel like the issue is it doesn't have dual weapon reload so you can't go in guns blazing like you'd want
It seems like you had Double Barrel mixed up with Fatal Aim when you were discussing the double barreled musket/pistol, the double barreled guns always have the fatal trait regardless of whether you are using one or two shots, but using two shots increases the fatal die size.
Also it is quite hidden, but there is a tiny bit of scaling available for the Kickback trait, through the Large Bore Modifications you can put on firearms. It increases the damage by 1 (up to 2), but also increases the strength requirement to 18. It's not the strongest thing, but if you have the strength it's worth the consideration.
It also increases the radius of the scatter trait by 5 ft, so a Dwarven Scattergun that hits everything in a 15 ft radius and takes 18 strength to wield properly both exists and is super cool and I want to use one ^-^
@@pielad1 Not coincidentally, Large Bore Modifications are available at the same time (5th level) a character who started with a 16 Strength can bump up to 18 and get +2 from a propulsive weapon. So kickback has the same damage scaling as propulsive for just about everyone except an Archer who starts with a higher Strength than Dex.
For the Double Barrel Musket, it always has the Fatal d10 trait, but if you use both barrels for the shot, it increases it to Fatal d12
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I love that dwarves get specific guns. Reminds me of Warhammer dwarves, which are my favorite kinda dwarves.
We played a Rorke's Drift one shot, a mate played an Ratfolk Inventor who's invention was a Jezail.
Boy did Ikit do a shit tonne of damage!
The advanced weapons are both ancestral weapons, which basically fixes the problem with them. With the ancestry feat you can treat them as martial weapons.
4:05 It takes the lower of immunities or resistances. Weaknesses are oddly left out. It doesn't actually change your damage type either, just conditionally bypasses those two things.
Hey Nonat just to let you know in the item section of guns there are weapon mods you can give guns. One let's you increase the damage of kickback and scatter.
I think the Mithral Tree is described to have a Shield attached around it's barrel like some of the bowguns in monster hunter, that's why it can parry.
One note about the Air Repeater and Long Air Repeater. I wouldn't be surprised to see some errata for them, namely in the description of the Air Repeater it makes reference to: "its longer-ranged, two-handed variant." So I think the stats for the Long Air Repeater are out of wack.
I think the fire lance was only included because it was one of the earliest gunpowder based weapon. Calling it a firearm makes it seem more complicated than what it really is, a glorified bomb on a spear.
It's a spear first, gun second.
I absolutely love the firearms. It's exactly what I want for "fantasy guns".
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Everyone can thank the Glascannon Podcast for the Clan Pistol, I bet.
I'm just looking forward to giving my bard/barbarian (bardbarian) dualclass character a gun. Neither of her classes helps her being better at using it, but she's a pirate, so I gotta get one for her.
Nonat forgets Wizards dont have simple weapons. Its ok, we are used to being forgotten.
I know it ain't much but as a brand new player your videos have been a godsend to understanding things, thanks you so much you are a blessing keep up the great work
Wizards don't get simple weapon proficiency so not all classes can use the simple guns. Also there is a gun archetype for the monk so you can flurry with bullets and pistol whips.
A hand cannon isn’t modular at the time of firing. The damage type is determined by what you load into it when reloading.
There’s a lot of mistakes you could have avoided by reading the weapon entries, dude.
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Clan Pistol makes me wanna try out Dwarfs. *In a southern Dwarfen rough accent* "Son, this is Our gun; protect it with your life!"
I have wanted to play pathfinder for so long. I would love to play a hobgoblin mastermind rouge now with a gunslinger archetype a couple simple pistols he picked up in a casino robbery. So many story possibilities.
paizo did great with the advanced weapons with the guns. advanced weapons having a ancestry trait makes it that you can use them as martial weapons at lvl 1 with the right ancestry + feat
Remember Advanced Weapons are Martial with the ancestry weapon feats.
I made air rifles for my Pathfinder 1 game over a decade ago, based on the Girandoni Air Rifle.
the Serpentfolk invading from another dimension had laser rifles, though.
i've been waiting all year for this and i'm SO excited. I really wanna do my gun toting magus with the ranged subclass it has (The name escapes me), but I'm also excited to make my catfolk acrobat gunslinger. Still deciding on if I want him to be dual pistols or pistol + whip.
You mention that every class in the game is proficient with simple weapons, but don't forget that Wizard isn't actually proficient with simple weapons. So no gun/wizards without weapon proficiency feats
man I always forget how scuffed wizard's weapon proficiency is. A witch or a sorcerer just gets all the simple weapons, eventhough a witch is basically a wizard with an alternative curriculum and homeboy gandalf over here is stuck with a dagger and crossbow like a chump.
The one thing that irks me is that the Jezail has less range than an arquebus or musket, even though both of those are smooth bore IRL while the Jazail is rifled IRL. Test show that an arcubuse's effective range was around 45 or 75 feet not 150. Also the arcubus does more damage than a musket even though it is smaller caliber? In the description they call an arquebus a long riffle with more than average range, and that just isn't what an arquebus was historicaly. They should have just called it a flintlock rifle or rifled musket.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arquebus
9:31 well, luckily for you, guns and gears adds gun monks too, so you won't be sad for long
I have ended up getting a whole bunch of Pathfinder Infinite Homebrewed archetypes. There is a lot of fun ^^
What about the beast guns and hybrid guns? o3o Wanted to hear your thoughts on those xD
Watching this and him talking about "Bow Monks" is really funny when later there is the gun monk archtype.
I backed the whole batylezoo set. And I got the pdf. Its great
9:31 You probably know by now, but the book does have an archetype for gun monk that allows you to flurry of blows with guns, bayonets, and reinforced stocks
I am eager to see Gunslinger deep dive when it will be ready. Thanks!
First and foremost the most important tip for owning firearms in Pathfinder is to make sure that when you are alone and pretending to shoot invisible enemies while going "PEW! PEW!" make sure your gun isn't loaded first. Safety first even in Golarion folks.
I've been wanting to do a campaign in a homebrew world with playable firearms for a *long* time now because I've always found it really *weird* that fantasy worlds of a technology level that, realistically speaking, *should* have firearms, almost *never* do; it's probably because of that *ridiculous myth* that firearms rendered even the *strongest* metal armor useless when they appeared. I'm *glad* the guys at Paizo know *better* than that, even writing *in* the book that at its height in the 16th century, plate armor could even stop *gunshot* , because that means they understand they can introduce firearms to the game and have them be *balanced* . Which *also* means I don't have to homebrew it. But I'm honestly *surprised* you didn't mention the *combination* firearms.
Also, for the *next* video, why don't you talk about all the cool new weapons introduced by the Grand Bazaar supplement book? I bet people would *love* to know about the Asp Coil.
OK I watched the entire sponsor thing instead of fast-forwarding once I knew who the sponsor was. Good work.
It’s very apt to talk about gunpowder on the 5th of November. Happy coincidence or intentional?
I was literally just lamenting the lack of Gunslinger in 2e and then I found this video. Imagine my joy.
Very nice. Firearms on a scale that they aren’t always the only game in town
I can't wait to play an investigator wielding a gun with kickback and wearing heavy armor, suck it dexterity, I use intelligence for attack rolls.
That sponsorship segment had me in stitches
Sometimes you need to double-check the actual weapon descriptions.
The Fire Lance also counts as a spear, which is it's advantage over the flintlock musket.
Welding both a ranged and melee weapon in one item that you don't need to use actions to switch between can be really nice.
I am not sure but does spellstrike ammo from the core rule book work with guns? If so a wielder mixing in some scrolls and spell abilities like a magus can would be really awesome. Fake being a magus when really you're just a witch with a gun.
Spellstrike ammunition is "Ammunition: Any" so it works with firearms.
Fire lance vs musket... the fire lance can be used as mele spear (need an action to ajust the grip but can be used as mele weapon).... well advance weapon with the "ancestry" trait are not so bad if you are from that ancestry and take weapon familiarity at lvl1 they are martial and you have access to them so... no so bad... the one without ancestry are more dificult to use... since there is no feat that allow you to upgrade an espefic weapon proficiency...
I brought up with my party the idea of eventually arming our fleet of ships with a broadside of 155m Howitzers.
You want to Flurry of Blows with firearms, do I have the archetype for you. May I introduce the Bullet Dancer with their Bullet Dancer Stance that allows you to flurry with firearms.
The Bullet Dancer who is on a revenge warpath, eliminating all goblins he can find because one of them killed his dog.
I can get behind this 👍
You left out Beast Guns, Cobbled Firearms, and Combination Weapons!
Note that Goblin Weapon Familiarity makes Advanced Goblin weapons be treated as Martial weapons for proficiency purposes. This means you must resist the call of Goblins for martial classes even harder because the flingflenser would be in easy reach.
Search your feelings, you know you want to.
I need this book to use eberron in pathfinder 2e... golarion being a moon that an eberron ship can reach for a fee
If I can ever actually find a game for PF2e, I may be able to enjoy a Magus who uses Guns.
Magus can only spell strike with a melee attack. You can’t use it with ranged attacks.
@@falloutboy9993 I believe they can spell strike with ranged attacks with a certain low level feat, but that doesn't stop me from dual wielding a pistol and Longsword.
@Ghost Yuki Ok. I didn’t know.
Clan pistol is basically a magnum!
Wait.... What about the Spoon gun!?!
Looks like the fact that Kickback does not scale is an error that should have an errata? I mean +1 dmg is pretty useless after the first 4 levels
That is not all the guns you missed some on page 158 with the combo weapons they are all guns.
@Nonat; Your explanation for the scatter trait is completely off. It's not a listed range, but a radius for splash damage.
Also, I'm confused as to why you say Fatal d10 does 3d10 on a crit at level 1. Fatal only add 1 additional die on a crit, which would make it 2d10 (without any Striking runes).
A normal weapon that does, say, d6 damage would do 2d6 on a critical (double damage). But a Fatal trait not only changes the base damage die it also adds an additional die, so with fatal d10, 1d6 becomes 2d10, then add in the additional 1d10 for a total of 3d10. If you play double the result instead of double the dice, then it would be 1d10 x 2 + 1d10.
That's why the pick is such a hard hitting weapon if you crit. Assume Str 16.
Normal damage: 1d6 + 3
Critical damage: (1d10+3) x 2 + 1d10 (or 3d10+6)
The Wizard actually can’t use a Simple Firearms lol.
But you didn't go over the best firearm in this book, the SPOON GUN!
This is my BOOOOMstick! Anyone want to throw out an amputee gunslinger with the asp whip (chainsaw)
Fighter with a scarlet dynamo archetype, I think. Or maybe a weapon inventor.
Groovy
Important Correction @ 09:15 (in relation to an earlier comment you made in the video): The Simple Firearms category are NOT available to all classes (regarding your “Wizard with a pistol” comment). Wizards are ONLY trained (without taking a feat) in a few, very select weapons, being the Club, Crossbow, Dagger, Heavy Crossbow, and Staff. It’s AKWAYS been that way, and frankly with your history of playing, you should know that. If you can’t keep details straight, I would recommend checking details before saying such incorrect things or editing/reshooting that piece before posting. I normally like your videos, don’t get me wrong on that, but those kind of things are a pet peeve of mine. After all, wizards are too busy in their books and learning magic to focus on the more martial side of things, the only reason sorcerers get simple weapons is because their power is inherent in their blood, requiring less training to use and allowing them the chance to learn how to use more of the most basic weapons in their world. (And let’s face it, always having access to your magic, barring extraordinary circumstances, is always really nice! 😊
Wizard with a shotgun… here corrected!
Shame there weren't any examples of skymetal guns and only a single star gun to use as a base to extrapolate from.
elf roque sniper
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Brawling and Firearms crit spec differ, the first is Slowed while the latter is Stunned condition. Stunned is better
Hello there
General Kenobi
Brawling = slow, not stun. Sling = stun
wheres the combination weapons?
the beast guns?
the weapon mods that others mentioned?
this is like 1/4 of the guns at best.
Did they drew all those fantasy guns at some point ? Because having pages of stat-blocs with properties feel absolutely soulless.
You forgot the combination guns.
Ye once again goblins are the bestest little guys ever whose the dangerous mad scientist you are yes you are
speaking as an inventor with a party thats nearly all melee, scatter sucks
I feel like using the double-barreled trait should cause you to take 1 nonlethal damage lmao. Two 12ga rounds at once? My shoulder hurts thinking about it.
My take away from this video...Gun Monks coming for Patrons "soon"
By the time the traits were done being explained I deleted all my character builds that uses firearms.
I thought they were clunky and undertuned already, by capacity, fatal and repeater traits are far worse than I thought so I'll just avoid it all together
First.
Oh god. I understand why you had to put an ad and why you had to make it that way, but that was not fun to watch. Still like your content and keep up the good job
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I personally thought it was amazing ^^
I fundamentally disagree with how paizo designed the firearms. I would love to see anyone load a flintlock in less than 10 seconds, let alone 2. That and I would love to see the logic behind giving a, on average, 50 caliber lead ball moving more than 1000 feet a second a d4 damage dice.
I assume you're talking about the pistol, since that's a d4 base damage die.
Then how about 3d8? Is that better? Because that's what you get if you get a good solid (some might say critical) hit with one. (or 1d8x2+1d8 if you double results instead of dice)
Aren't these based on
Early firearms? The ones the weren't very good compared to bows in real life. Now if we're taking modern guns then they probably do more.
Also who cares about how fast you can load a Flintlock IRL it's a game.
@@gmscott9319 Even if you don’t hit someone in a critical location, like the chest or head, a hit from a flintlock pistol would still be devastating. We are talking potentially disabling a limb devastating.
@@decobyjones9491 Early firearms were not good compared to bows because of the long reload, lacking accuracy, and the logistical complications that come with making and transporting large amounts of gun powder. In terms of actual damage done, even primitive firearms would cause significantly more harm than a bow or crossbow.
I'm pretty sure I would instantly die if you dagger'd me on any part of my body. I think logic was discarded as soon as hit points were introduced.