Behringer Model D...I was WRONG (Behringer Model D vs Moog)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ต.ค. 2024
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Subjective opinions within, those who do not understand subjective option may be excused lol
All music created on Behringer Model D by me
I PURCHASED THE BOOG MODEL D ON AMAZON WITH MY OWN MONEY AS PER USUAL
Alright, in a previous episode of Thoughts On I spoke about my experience with Moog synthesizers, and my experience with Behringer, both as a company, their failings and what's in a name. I will gladly state that in the short term I WAS WRONG. The Behringer Model D is a quality piece, Behringer has come a very very long way. While there are some who still will buy a genuine Moog, and not a Behringer I realize that the difference on the surface is something a company attempting to make a clone can be proud of.
This is purely a second look at an inanimate piece of hardware. IF YOU PLAN TO ARGUE THE ETHICS OF BEHRINGER OR YOU HAVE TRIBALISM...WELL...that’s not what this is about, this is correcting my own poor preconceived notion.
I don't like to present myself as someone who knows it all, I'm a musician just like you all. This is why I end all Thoughts On videos by saying "I don't have these answers". My way of saying, make up your own minds. THAT SAID, if in anyway I came across as someone who poo-poo'd Behringers recreation I WAS WRONG. Most people don't understand subjective opinion, and while that's what this channel is about, I realize that the way in which I say things can be misinterpreted for fact, and that's where I'd like to state I made a mistake.
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I’m not afraid to say when what I’ve said may be easily misinterpreted. Don’t assume intent, no one can read minds. That’s why at the end of every Thoughts On video I say “I don’t have these answers”, which means make up your own mind. Choose what you like, there’s no right or wrong answer, if you think there is remember, experiences are subjective. 🤗
I just purchased my Behringer Model D yesterday. My very first piece of gear and my first Analogue Synth! Now I’ve been producing Drum & Bass for 17 years but only got into Analogue Synths within the last year and it’s reinvigorated my drive to make music. Next looking to get the Neutron, MS-1, and then a Grandmother!
Great video!
We love Bob Moog, and we love seeing young synthesists getting an opportunity they otherwise would never have had to own some of the best synths ever created. :)
this young synthesist would sure love to own a prophet 5 hint hint :):):):):):)
Have a your Model D, it is an amazing piece of kit. Let’s get those Eurorack modules going!
Hi Behringer, thanks for stopping by. Hopefully a very affordable Eurorack case is on the way, that would be very helpful to get many beginners started on their Eurorack journey. Thank you :)
BEHRINGER you guys are killing it! I own the behringer model d and i absolutely love it. Can’t wait for the 909
Hope a Vsti software integration and presets manager for it like an access virus
Politicians could learn a lot from this video
Well, admitting you’re wrong is healthy right? 😊
@@NoirEtBlancVie 100%
9teen8efore you’re not wrong, I’m in no way perfect and truly when I made that first video I didn’t do a good job in stating that I was a subjective opinion for a biased person. I took that original video to the point of making politically based statements and I apologize. That was not my aim, I needed to make this video to clearly state that I’m just a guy who doesn’t know best. Mistakes happen, I admit mine. I’m sorry if that original video misled or judged without stating where I stood.
Underrated comment
It's too bad politicians don't learn.......
ugh i'm tired of the hashing out. affordable analog synths kills elitism that poisons an otherwise wonderful community, and makes music accessible to everyone, so lets just stop this argument for good, please.
I agree, let people buy what they want to buy without the judgement. If anyone gets upset cause you buy one over the other it’s their problem, right? Just make music with the tools you enjoy regardless of how much it cost or the name on the rear panel :)
This comment should be on top! the truth right here. People get stuck in this. You cannot buy talent. Its not the tools its the carpenter!
Serum is like 10 bucks a month, so everyone can make music if they want to. I don’t see any elitism here.
@@XanderEwald Why am I not surprised finding you here? Have you sold your Roland yet 🤣
@@NoirEtBlancVie moog has affordable synths, and there is the secondhand pages. cheap crap contributes to a non-sustainable future. but who cares what anyone does? yay - individualism!
If Moog had brought out a Model D in this form factor (i.e. Mother-32 style skiff) for under $1000, I would have purchased it instead of the Boog. Instead their reissue was a premium, luxury monosynth that was priced out of reach of most people. Its primary competition was Voyagers and vintage Minimoogs.
You could literally buy 10 Behringer Model D synths for the price of Moog’s reissue.
So I bought a Boog on impulse and was very pleasantly surprised with its quality and amazing sound - so much so that I went on to get a Neutron, Pro-1, RD-8 and a VC340. Now I’m eyeballing The Cat and their modular stuff, and I’m excited about their future products.
Moog’s failure to compete in this segment cost them a lot of potential profit, and allowed Behringer to gain momentum with their synth clones.
Moog doesn’t survive on selling to people like us. They survive on selling to people who own Grammys, who own recording studios worth hundreds of millions of dollars. It’s the whole boutique aesthetic. Like the dumble amp. I can go buy a clone that sounds 99.99999999999% the same for a couple hundred dollars. Or I can spend 250-500k on the real thing. People like us buy the clones. People with platinum albums either made or produced buy the reissues, and really only if they don’t want to deal with upkeep on a vintage unit, or no vintage units are available. Basically moog reissue isn’t meant for us. They aren’t losing profit. If they sold cheap versions of the reissues that’s how they would lose profit. The parts are extremely expensive, and a lot of the times not even in production anymore. If you could buy a real moog system 10 for a normal price 1-4k like other synths, then it would destroy the market they’ve created for reissues and vintage moog. Not only that it wouldn’t be the same synth, and that would hurt their reputation to sell a synth that is supposed to be a recreation of something everybody loves, and it isn’t actually a recreation. Studios and musicians wouldn’t buy the new versions, only vintage. It’s just a bad situation all around. Though I will admit, I’m no expert and I might be wrong.
Moog isn’t hurting lol. The boog has some issues. The boog poly d is way better. But I have two little phatties so I really don’t need more moog types with no presets. I did buy a deepmind 12. Then an asm hydrasynth
That wasn’t the point. Moog already made the Little Phatty and Slim Phatty for even cheaper.
@@logicalblackman8228 even cheaper than what? Those Moogs were more than double the price of the Behringer D.
@@jacobbrown1690 If you want presets, Moogs aren’t for you.
I bought my MiniMoog in 1974 - I've had it recapped twice, still use it, and will never let it go. That said, I am forced to admit that no one in the audience can tell the difference between the original and my Behringer Model D. Add a little FX, and no one can tell them apart on a recording either.
100% true! The day someone that isn’t a heavy synth person says, “that sounds like a genuine Moog right there” I’ll eat my hat 🧢😁
Effects like what? I'm getting my hands on one to play/record on and I've been wondering what to do to accomplish that
A generous dollop of reverb, maybe a little echo (especially for solos.) Even an analog synth sounds a little artificial dry.
@@DarthKrossChorus makes EVERY synth sound better, phatter and more warm! Also delay, reverb, and also phasers are good to experiment with.
@@ronnie_astro
Thanks for the info. I'll be sure to try those out
Takes a big man to admit they were wrong, reeeeeeeespec'👊
Thank you. I’m not too big to speak the truth haha
@@NoirEtBlancVie what confuses me is that people are always down on Behringer for "copying" historical circuits but when people design a eu module based on a similar circuit it is accepted without batting an eyelid. To me seems Behringer are making enourmous efforts in synths and the Neutron and Crave are very much their own. For sure the history / image hasn't got the kudos of sequential, roland, moog et al but at least they are doing something to give consumers and enthusiasts an affordable way in to music and that has to be applauded.
Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge
Damn Namm is making me crave a new rave machine!
Agreed 🙏🏽
I love this. It takes a lot to come back to one of your own videos and admit you were wrong. Most others would have just quietly deleted and moved on. Huge respect man.
Never really got the whole “clone” controversy. Companies like Arturia have been doing software emulations of famous synths for years. It’s like the fact that Behringer made hardware clones people got bent out of shape. These things are incredible, just got my Pro 1 today my Model D & Neutron are incredible also. Waiting for that 2600 and hopefully one day a Quadra .
"is the Behringer model a steal" this line has more meaning now. hah
I want to reply to this comment in a funny way, but I don’t want to get sued.😬
Wasn't expecting this almost choked on my cornflakes 11/10
@@NoirEtBlancVie Fear is an excellent advisor.
As a Behringer D owner, it's not just a steal, Moog should be paying them 😂
Got my model D today and I am very impressed, definitely holds up against a Moog. I don't actually own a Moog but my office is right down the street from their headquarters and I grew up in the area so I've had plenty of playtime with the demos there and I can say I am familiar enough with their sounds to say with confidence that Behringer is on to something great with this! I'm getting the Neutron next because it looks awesome.
Excellent video. I've owned a 1972 Mini since 1978. I wouldn't dare gig it now - too fragile. I've also just bought a Behringer Model D.
I'm still stunned by the concept and the delivery, and I won't even comment on the sound of the machine other than to say that I can't tell the difference. What I can do however, is now take my 'Moog' back out for gigging purposes without having to have paramedics and a hairdryer on standby. Best wishes to all at Moog - but I reserve the right to embrace Behringer kit on the basis that they're not just imitating, but they're adding to the legacy. Very generously.
How about that Model T Ford ?
Folks tell me that there's a Model T with fancy braking, weatherproofing - and some gadget that tells you how to get where you want to go. Fuck me..and some flashing lights for when you want to round a corner ????
Oh Henry, I so hope that you're not offended by the passage of time, and the exponential march of tech progress....
Uli..word fail me. Ignore the naysayers.
thank you.
Saying I’m wrong only enhances self esteem.
👍
Being a Moog user and having the highest regards and respect for a genius and a gentleman Dr. Bob Moog, I asked Moog for permission if I could buy the Behringer Model D.
The reply, it does not matter what you use to make great music.
Wow
Exactly. I was talking with Dave Smith at NAMM and I think most people think that the creators of the originals are upset about these so called “attack of the clones” but honestly they just want people to enjoy their instruments. Funny how the users in the comments care more about this than the people who originated these designs, right? Thanks for this :)
It's a great move from Behringer, since the industry is kinda fucked, prices need to come down to give young people easier access to technology which is also fun and very learnfull.
It stimulates the mind on another level, u gain important deduction, logical skills and basic computer techniques which can give u the edge when u learn them from young age.
Music forms your mind and increases self identity because u can create something that is you.
Stay humble and open is the best way to go the furthest in life.
Jef Damen 👍👍👍. Behringer actually gives you the best value for $. And the range just keeps increasing.
@@NoirEtBlancVie : In my experience, synthesizer enthusiasts are some of the biggest snobs you're ever likely to have the misfortune of encountering. Many of them seem to find it more important to be seen to have the "right" instruments rather than be heard to make the right noises/sounds.
Korg Polysix, MS10, ARP Avatar, Axxe, "ARP" (Korg) Odyssey, Moog Multimoog, Roland SH-1, Teisco 60f..................
@@NoirEtBlancVie The creators of the originals are quite smart ... the 'entry level clones' create future customers for their high value synths. A young student who was able to start on a 'budget' clone may eventually develop the desire to get the 'real thing' one day...
Well said. I've been in this game for 20 years and I never would have said in 2019, Behringer are going to start really nailing it.
Very well said! I am a proud owner of both the Behringer D and the Minimoog Model D. I'm so happy to know that the Minimoog sound is available to almost everyone now :)
After NAMM this year it's clear that Behringer has been set to take the Synth world by storm. It's a great time to be a Synthesizer fan, the coming years are going to be fun, as I'm sure Behringer's recent releases will spur come more awesome & innovative products to be developed the other big synth companies.
Great of you for coming back on this! More honesty like this would be great on the interwebs!
Thanks man, glad to see you here. It was a weird one.
You just keep on doing what you do! @@NoirEtBlancVie
:)
Most of berhinger’s synths are now designed in the U.K. They are built in China to strict specifications , no slacking on quality control.
I have and love the Model D, always wanted a Minimoog, but by the time I came of age were very rare and expensive (music gear has always been more expensive in Australia, for some reason, especially 2nd hand unit).
I admire the Moog company, its history quality and innovation. For hobbyist musician, a several thousand dollar synth just does not make sense. Maybe if I became wealthy, or if I was a pro musician I would buy a Moog in a heartbeat.
Remember that a lot of budget gear in the past became classic, like the Juno 106, Oberheim Matrix 1000, Roland 303, 626 even stuff like the Korg Poly 800. Some people laughed back then, but who's laughing now? Of course some mega expensive stuff from back in the day also became classic gear, from the Roland Jupiter, Moog Multimoog, hell even the Yamaha DX7 and Roland D50 were pretty pricey when new!
I'm coming from the guitar world, which surely is a much bigger industry and may work differently, but it's always been far less elitist. Take as best example the Fender Stratocaster which has been copied and cloned by so many manufacturers since it's invention. Fender themselves still exist and produce their original high end guitars (made in USA) as well as mid range and also low end models (made in Mexico or Indonesia) and amps and whatnot since the 90s or earlier and nobody ever cared as far as I know. The usual approach as a kid with no money was to buy a 300$ copy, because it was more important to actually own a guitar and to rock out than having a 3000$ peace of gear. Later when the jobs and the money came we got dissatisfied with the copy and bought the real deal (which by the way is still kind of midrange because same here: only rich people can afford the "real" vintage models). My point is: copies make the gear affordable for musicians who want to play but that doesn't mean that the high end products will disappear because there are always people who are willing to pay more for better quality and, well, prestige. But I know of no TH-cam video where people discussing if the 300$ Stratocaster sounds exactly the same like the 10'000$ vintage original (the guitar problems are of a different kind). The world is changing, the market is changing and clever companies like Behringer take the opportunity. Other companies like Korg or Roland do something about that but in my opinion, they kind of miss the point - or they don't really care, like Korg recreating the elitist version of the ARP2600 instead of a mini version, meanwhile Behringer listens to that call, what can we say here... I think this all would be less fuss if more companies did it like Fender: produce their own cheap copies.
I can add an explanation of how they got it smaller than the original. 40 years later, components have shrunk and tolerances have gotten smaller, making it easier to make such a device.
I honestly think that we should be cherish about all music instrument companies. From the innovative but premium price ones (like Moog or Dave Smith) to the "economy of masses" ones like Behringer. It is funny that now a days people cherish a lot of innovation from Yamaha and Roland, but in the past they used to be the "affordable" options and A LOT of music was made on their machines that now a days are considered classics.
The reality is: we need people that can and are wiling to afford expensive gear, because they are the ones that help companies innovate. But, we also need companies that create affordable gear to allow musicians to afford the tools they need to create music. We need both, competition is always good, and people should stop choosing "sides" and fight over it and just play and create music.
The only "elitist" kind that is dumb are the ones that get angry with Behringer because their vintage gear went down in price. That is stupid, because clearly they don't care about music, they just care about money over their investment... And for all the haters that are dumb enough to argue that Behringer should be sued over copyright, remember that copyright expires. All those designs are old enough that their circuits are already public domain, and, the expiration of their copyright is actually a good thing because it allows other innovations to be made over them.
Very cool to publicly own up to a "mistake" like that. Respect. I do love that Moog is employee-owned, and if I could afford one, that would be a big part of my decision making process for buying one. Until then, I really like my Model D.
I'm not a professional musician to be able to invest loads of money into gear. I wish I could, but honestly, the only Moog product I could afford at the moment is the Werkstatt-01 and I might buy one just to support Moog Music, as they do deserve it. The Behringer Model D has allowed me to take home the iconic sound of a Minimoog I've been wanting since 2005 or so, when I tried one in a music instrument shop. Also, the difference in price between "Synth XYZ" and its Behringer clone is enough for me to buy the Behringer one, maybe except for the Swing vs the Arturia Keystep.
Elitist synth folk rarely if ever make anything worth listening to anyway, screw 'em. Behringer is golden, and has been since at least the MX2642 back in the day. I'll take the Neutron over the Model D any day, but both are remarkable pieces of gear for chump change.
You’re not wrong, the point of this video was to hopefully stop this back and forth. As I stated, wanting something expensive doesn’t make you an elitist, and wanting something cheap doesn’t make you a cheapskate, or someone who doesn’t care for quality. It’s simply a choice, and I’m not polarized in anyway. I realize people can make two opposite decisions and still love synthesis. Comments on the 1st video were so unfortunate. People criticizing one another for their choice of synth. Just make music with whatever the tool, all these instruments have different features, pic the one with the features you like and that you can afford. That’s all I wanted to make clear :)
I agree. I first got the IK UNO, then just this month upgraded to the Neutron and it was the price point that got me to consider getting into synths in the first place. Behringer's my new hero
Purists have harder lives, u need to let them vent from time to time...
I agree that young hungry artists make better songs, but what rubs me wrong is not the musician with cheap tools, but the large manufacturer acting like he's the victim. so for me at least, it's not a question which musician (the one with money or without) is the moral one, but which manufacturer. (much like how you don't blame the fat guy, but mcdonalds or coke for profiting and pretending)
I have the neutron and it sounds bloody fantastic. Would
Happily buy a d or any other behringer gear. Yes they are a lot better at quality control now. When i first started playing guitar. I wanted a fender or a Gibson. Only with experience did I realise that it’s not always the tool it’s the craftsman. Good music can be made on anything if you are passionate enough. If my neutron offends you
Moog or oberheim purists then too bad. Get over it.
I love that, at the time of this video, the price of a MiniMoog was only $3500.00 Have a look on Reverb now - you'll pay about $7,000.00 for Very Good condition, up to about $11,000.00 for an unsold new one.
Now you can get a brand new one for $5000, what a deal LOL
"The behringer name just doesn't hold as much weight as moog" he explained to the girl in the club who was enjoying the DJ who was in fact using a behringer
Behringer got top notch analog engineers when they acquired Midas so you could say they really have been at the analog game for a long time.
I’m not a Moog guy....never have been. I’ve always preferred the sounds of SH-2, Pro One, or especially the Arp Odyssey. I have all three. BUT, I did get a Behringer D, and must admit, that it can sound fantastic, and rounds out my mono analog collection quite nicely.
For people like me, who love analog, but aren’t in love with buying a $3000 Moog, its a great synth to have on hand. I love the HI/LO outputs so you can run it straight into guitar pedals without impedance mismatch. The tiny knobs and resolution of those knobs aren’t great, but for my uses, it works well.
And I LOVE, that a kid can get an amazing sounding analog synth for Xmas or a birthday present. Its such a good thing for synth heads and electronic music in general, making the instruments accessible to future generations.
Good on you for admitting you were wrong. As far as how long these will last, only time will tell, but as far as sound goes, they keep nailing it.
I agree with you.
I read so many comments where Moog owners tend to throw Behringer out of the window.
There is no denying the fact that original Moog is a class apart but the point here is making it affordable and providing majority of the flavour at one-tenth of the price .. 😊😊
Got my model D a few weeks ago. It has 'bargain' all over it, and since a(ny) Moog sounds best with reverb, nobody will hear the difference in Valhalla. Not a clone? Not a recreation? Agreed. You can also get the exact same time from a fake Rolex. A real one makes you feel different :).
I own both, and like them for different reasons.
What I really enjoy is seeing new players getting to experience playing on hardware. I recently watched a high school student playing a Moog that is two decades older than he is. Pure joy. That is why I do this. Getting more players to climb out of the box, experience real knobs, real keys, and learn the techniques for playing these instruments. Can't duplicate that experience in a virtual instrument.
Knobs, buttons and keys- hardware...
What i like about the Boog is, that you can use it (through its patchfield) as a full voice for a modular synth. And if you own the Korg MS20 Mini you can use it as the Boog and the MS20 Mini both have micro jacks) wih the MS20 Mini.
Two years later. Behringer has brought many many syths to market. They are a major player, They have allowed hobbyist musicians into the party.
I passed up the opportunity in 1998 to buy a Minimiog at second hand tunes for $600, so when this came Out I jumped and am super happy with it.
Sad story with a happy ending
Wow, I had no idea Moog was owned by its employees. As an AnCom, that really warms my heart.
Yes, man! Just YES!
Respect! I completely agree with your position. Behringer is making, in their words, "modern iterations" of classic gear. They add functionality and usability at a low price point. Moog isn't losing a sale if I buy a Behringer D. I was never going to buy the Moog anyway.
I got a Behringer Uphoria 404 audio interface for a gig last year and I got to say, for £85 it’s amazing build quality, sound quality and reliability. I use it for a second setup daily.
I got a UHD, and I have to say great interface for its price feature set, zero problems and absolute quality feel for a USB interface. Behringer has been knocking out the park on the BUDGET/Home Studio level.
Honestly as a Behringer Model D owner I thought your original video was very measured.
In the very few years I've been into synths I know the Moog name well, but mostly out of my financial reach.
Your right that at present the name Behringer carries no value, but they are working hard to change that. Looking at the NAAM 2019 coverage I've clicked on most of the videos with Behringer in the title.
You are forgiven for your assumptions about build quality on Uli’s gear. I, for one, have quite a few of his earlier gadgets, and have seen the downside of some of their sketchy QC, having had some units fail. But this synth gear they’re making is something else, and I’m keen to keep exploring both Behringer AND Moog for their 21st Century offerings based on late 20th Century technology. Inspired design. Great sound.
I do have a couple of Moog synthesizers, and I am contemplating buying a third one soon. I also have a Model D and appreciate the fact that even if it is subtly different from the Moog synths, it does speak the same language. If I think of a particular sound I want, I can receate it on either of them. BTW, Behringer build quality wasn't always that great. I had a stereo compressor with a poorly mounted mains transformer - Its casing emitted an annoying, audible hum which I only discovered when I converted my studio to balanced signal lines. I thought it was something in the signal chain. Thanks for sharing.
I support Moog and Sequential.
US companies
As an owner of a minimoog and a behringer product produced post-midas acquisition, I neither regret spending $3700 on my moog nor would ever fault someone for purchasing a product from behringer that was designed and produced since the midas acquisition. Their build quality, QA, and R&D has made massive leaps and strides since that merger.
Totally agree with the sentiment of the video. Also, it's worth noting that some of the best synthpop of the 80s was made with what were, at the time, VERY cheap synths. If this leads some people with less income--some future synth genius--to get access to this kind of gear, I think that's fantastic. You can create just as great of a song with a Model D as you can with a Minimoog...
Okay, I didn't want to weigh in on this but I have to. The R&D on wave form synthesis was pretty much over by the end of the 70s. While I appreciate Bob Moog's genius I don't think ANYTHING justifies a 1000% markup which is the $$$ difference between a Minimoog Model D and a Behringer Model D. I don't care how many smiling faces make them in their American factory. The fact is Moog could've and probably should've kept their prices to some sort of sane level. Maybe they wouldn't be a 'statement piece' but there would be many more people who could AFFORD to experiment with wave form synthesizers. I'm damn glad Arturia, Korg and Behinger are making affordable FM synths and don't understand anybody who isn't. End of rant.
I agree with you, and I attempt to not get too involved in the politics of it all because it’s just gear to me, and honestly if anyone has watched the channel over time they can see that I’ve moved so far from gear at this point. I see every synth as just a tool, and I have for years now, it’s really hard to stay passionate about a hammer, but I’m still excited for the house the hammer can build. Like they say though, the easiest way to be hated is to have an opinion and here we are hahaha. I’m glad that so many people can afford synths they like, but me, I’m just a guy, I don’t know the actual margins, the real cost, I have no real figures on paper, only speculation. I can admit that and I don’t like speaking on things I don’t know for absolute truths, but I do know that Behringer is shaking things up regardless of how we slice it, and shaking things up is a good thing for everyone. :)
It takes allot for a person too admit that they are wrong. But, to do it with a positive attitude without putting down either companies is truly commendable. As always, great job.
Thank you Den, I tried to do my best, picking sides when it comes to something like a synth, I just don’t see the point :)
I just went up to Guitar Center near my house to see what they had on display, and they had one of these on sale for $250. I was so pleased to see the price even though I really don’t want one. I have a grandmother, dfam, and mother 32 setup that satisfies my mono itch, but if I didn’t have this Moog set up I’d be all over the Behringer Model D for the price. Deepmind 12R has my attention still. Really looking forward to what Behringer comes up with In years to come. Like there 808, 909 clones. I want more polys by them though. I agree build needs to be focused on. Over all Behringer has a foot in the door. Model D clone is not bad at all! My ramble is over...lol
Can a mother 32 or a grandmother, in your experience, do let’s say...80% of what a boog does in emulating a minimoog? I have started to appreictae finer things in life, so I’m aiming at a better quality piece of kit (in this case an original moog), with a bit more prestige. My budget can afford me a grandmother + decent reverb or a mother 32 + decent reverb + decent delay + midi keyboard. I’m mostly interested in making berlin school style of music (like oldschool Tangerine Dream).
jippalippa I think a mother 32 or Grandmother both can accomplish most of your bass and lead needs. There really fun and worth the extra investment for sure. I can’t wait to get the Matriarch to complete my setup. The DFAM is super fun too.
I totally agree with you. And btw, I own both Moog and Behringer machines. As for Behringer build quality, I have to say that (like many of us) I started 12 years ago with Behringer mixers, have used 'em extensively in studio and in the road and, quite interestingly, up to now, they never failed me and are still working alright. Needless to say that as soon as B started its "clone" range, I was more than interested and started adding to my synth setup...
The only thing with Behringer synths like the Model D is are they still gonna be around in 40 years time, as in is the build quality up to the test of time. I've seen demo models of the Deepmind synths look very shabby after a few months in my local music store, the slider caps had fallen off and the keys were looking a bit wonky. When I demoed the Behringer Model D I noticed the switches were cheaply made and the thing was quite hard to tune. It is with all hardware about getting what you pay for, the Behringers synths are cheaper because they are cutting corners somewhere along the production line. As long as you are prepared for them maybe not to last as long, then they are a good way to get your hands on a alternative to something that would cost a lot more otherwise.
I've owned two Neutrons and both had flawless build quality. In fact, their build quality was superior to my other synths which cost 4x more. Behringer has become a force to be reckoned with.
Seriously. The Crave looks like the Best-in-Show at NAMM in terms of price\performance. All the new digital stuff is nice, but that little semi-modular sounds so smoove.
@@iNuchalHead It's all about the classic analog components. They're classic for a reason.
The Neutron is such a good deal, if you're modular curious it's a must have. I can't recommend it enough. (put an extra pack of like 8 cables in your cart when you buy it, you get some, but you'll want some more)
Possibly smaller components (I haven't poked inside mine) but smaller (Sized) Capacitors, 1/8 Watt Resistors, Multilevel Circuit Boards, the external Power Supply, are all factors that can make a unit smaller.
I have more of an Organ background than a Synth background, however I have been in the process of putting together a small Synthesizer setup, geared more towards Live/Real Time Performance.
I use two Moog Mother 32's and got a Behringer D because it has a really different timbre. Sounds fabulous in recordings total benefit.
I love the minimoog sound and I want something that sounds like it, and the behringer sounds like a no brainer... That said I’m not exactly young and with time I started to appreciate finer things, not necessarily focusing solely on budget. I’d like to buy something a bit more durable, and high quality, a nice piece of hardware that would last years, therefore I was looking at the moog mother 32 paired with a decent reverb module. what I’m disapointed with is the lack of variety in waveforms for the mother 32; for example there’s no trianlge wave to create mellow flute leads...
What do you think about this matter? Thanks
@@jippalippa I agree the Mother 32 is quite limited in timbres, what it does do it does very well. The Beringer D is more open with timbres and 3 osc which can be sub osc.
Wow. Excellent channel. Such a concise and well spoken presenter. You have my subscription.
As a non-professional, I cannot justify the price of a Minimoog but I love my Moog Grandmother. Takes me back to my Moog built Realistic MG-1 but with so much more capability and I don't miss the poly part, I have several polysynths. Moog is the best synthesizer for sound effects IMHO. That is something I use in both my day job and my music hobby. I also have a Behringer Odyssey because it takes me back the the ARP. Nothing bad to say about Behringer but I do like supporting the Moog company and community.
Model D sounds amazing. Just controls is flimsy and no presets. So I've got Moog Subphatty
Years late to this video but I have to mention personal experience with the little phatty. I worked at a moog dealer for a long time and all the little phatty's we sold eventually developed problems. Mostly with drift and calibration. A few of the heavier gigging musicians were at the point they had to re-calibrate them before any gig (which is both a space and a time consuming process) or jam session. The simple act of being in a road case in a car was too much for them.
The little phatty we had as a demo model I would have to calibrate a few times a week before we closed to keep it customer friend. Yes I told customers that we had to do that. I felt it was important that they knew what they were getting into.
This is before we get into the questionable for the road build quality of the mooger foogers of that time period. Great in a studio but not well made when looked at from a gigging perspective. Every one I owned developed an issue at some point beyond the ring modulator.
Is this still true? I'm not sure. But in 2007 moog made great sounding but infinitely fragile gear.
Man, this is an impeccable review. I wish you all the best, thank you for this.
I've never owned any Beringer products but I'll be quite interested in their EMS Synthi clone (if that rumour is correct)
Hopefully this is a new era for Behringer.
I bought a Behringer rackmount effects processor maybe 15 or 20 years ago brand new for like $99 or $149 (can't recall for sure even what the model was). I couldn't even tell you how the effects were, it was noisy as shit. I took it back to see if it was a faulty unit, the store employee basically told me I should just get my money back and buy another brand.
The 808 clone looks pretty sweet, and I can't afford a vintage one (not to mention no MIDI), so I hope that Behringer really has stepped up their game lately and continues to do so.
As a guitar player who’s just taking piano lessons, I’m not going to drop $3,500 for a Moog model D anytime in the near future, but $300 for this synth is perfect for me, and I’ve found this little guy to be a lot of fun. (But I did get my son a theramini and have my eye on the grandmother).
I'm Korean and there are few new Minimoog Model D Reissue on sale in Korea..
Recently I bought a Minimoog Model D. However, note B on the keyboard did not sound. I immediately requested a replacement and looked at the new product, but this time the screw holding the pitch bend was loosened. Is this quality justified by selling it at a much higher price than the production cost? Since then I've lost my trust in the Minimoog and I'm going to buy a Behringer Model D today. The original budget will be spent on Sequential Prophet-10
I don’t blame you!
Surface mount pick-and-place assembly in China is normal nowadays for all your PC/Cell phones. Why would a synth made with the same parts be any less reliable. It's also one of the things that keeps the cost down.
You’re not the only one homie, Behringer surprised all of us with these clones
They’re not clones :)
What you say about Moog is true, and the new Berhringers are such a good value for the price. (I got to video some of the new ones recently! and was impressed.) Both POV's can coexist.
I had one for a month, it sounded great, but the midi over usb was very finicky and always cut out. Had to return
That’s so unfortunate
A Khatibi - just for balance mine’s been fine over USB. I’ve got other things connected via USB and sometimes they disappear but the Model D is constant. In my humble experience USB issues have always been computer related.
Great explanation of why you believed what you did at the time and why you now believe those thoughts were wrong. 10/10 would watch you correct yourself again.
Thanks for the video! I bought a model D and I like it. It has a lot of things I hate, like not having a way to save presets in the year 2024 and I know they tried to replicate the mini Moog, but you can always make it better. It sounds pretty good. It's really temperamental when staying in tune (something that never happened with my Roland SE-02 to compare it with something similar), but is fun to play with, it gets really close to the miniMoog sound, and it's super cheap. I played a miniMoog at the music store and honestly I think it's so overpriced. I understand the idea of a boutique company and cheap labour to reduce price is not the solution for anything, but I think Moog could make today a miniMoog much cheaper, especially if they don't add any modern updates like they did with the latest version, I think from 2020 or so. A monophonic synth, with no option to save presets, no MIDI CC to automate anything and so many out of date problems, shouldn't cost more than a Prophet 6, or an OB-6, Jupiter X or any other modern synth, analog or digital. We´ll see how things change with a new owner. One of the 1st positive changes was to release VST plugins for both Windows and Apple (Moog was always supporting Apple devices and computers only). For sure they can reduce dramatically the price of a modern miniMoog with some modern updates if they think about musicians and to bring anybody the opportunity to have the miniMoog sound without having to sell one of your kidneys. It's not going to be the same as one from 1972, but how many people care about this? If you´re a musician, you care about the sound and the music you can make, I think. Behringer things are cheap and we don't know how long they are going to resist the pass of time. A model D I doubt is going to last 50 years, same as an RD8 and so many others, but for young musicians starting today, their products are perfect. I love and hate my model D lol. I hate the part where I can't save my sounds so what I do is try to replicate it with some miniMoog model D, or taking a photo of the knobs. And I love it because I have almost the experience of making sounds with a miniMoog hardware at my desk and I spent less than 300 dollars.
The only synth that ever broke in my entire setup was the Moog Subphatty and I can't even get it repaired because there is no service shop in the entire country..(The Netherlands) They just sent me new octave switches and now I have to pay for repairs by a random synth doctor. So much for quality and service. By the way, the Subphatty octave switches brake all the time and they weren't even admitting that, while there are a lot of forums full of broken Subphatty's. I love the Moog sound, but quality, service and pricing are lame!
I would like to believe this is a dependable product...but...over the last 15 years I have purchased many, many MANY Behringer products from $30 headphones to their top of the line studio monitors....and.....today I have no Behringer products in my studio....why?.....they all malfunctioned after 2 years of use.
Hey I had A Benringer Mixer 16 years Behringer is to be Recon with....
The behringer model D is a fantastic machine. Paired with a zoom ms70cdr it produces amazing soundscapes and inspires creativity unlike a lot of digital gimmicky tech. I am looking forward to the ub xa from behringer. It will be permanently sat next to my model D.
Kudos to you for positng a video like this. People take these things far too seriously and personally. I have Moog gear and Behringer gear. A Minitaur for bass, a Model D for thick leads, and a Sub Phatty for that hard Sync sound. Right tool for the job IMHO. Also glad to hear opinions from players that perform live and not just gear heads. I've played more shows than I can count, but I'm in my mid 50's now so I'm more interested in diving into sound scapes, than a couple do-everthing poly synths that can change sounds on the fly from piano, to organ, to strings, to pulse width and saw tooth leads. I've always had a couple old school analogs (Moog Prodigy/SCI P5 rev 3.3) but I never toured with them. They're too valuble, and they don't hold tune as well as a Korg Wavestation or a Kuzweil K2000, LOL. I'm new to Behringer so I don't have a background of their dodgy history regarding quality, but these new synths seem as good as my old Moog Prodigy, probably even better build quality to the Prodigy with low cost switches and very flimsy pots. I have a Model D, two Neutrons, and just got a Pro-1. Setting them on four midi channels, and hooking them up to my Roli Seaboard and I have my own poor mans four-voice where each key can pitch bend independently. It's a blast :) Thanks to Behringer for making something like this both possible and affordable.
Nice patch! (as I'm watching) the "bug" I didn't like on the 1st reissue was inability to match or sync the waves exactly from the vibrato lfo and the osc in lfo mode. e.g. the duty cycles of the squares are just different
Everybody wanted an affordable minimoog, and then when Behringer delivers people get mad and I couldn't understand why, but now I get that it should have been Moog to deliver the compact micro minimoog. If the same thing was a real Moog and for $200 more there would be no argument from anyone. the same people with a Boog would have the Moog mini model d.
i got a Boog, sounds great can't believe its so cheap,loving it,no tuning problems.
The PRICES IS GOING UP!!!! I bought it fastly. I have both immediately!! ModelD is 329 now!!
Really good to see a retrospective review. This is well thought out, and an important aspect to gear use.
I have a Behringer Model D and have played a Minimoog: the real deal is deffo a bit fatter, has more presence. But not 10 times your budget more, so I was quite happy with spending the relatively small money for the almost-there Boog. And I also got the Neutron haha - personally I wasn't too taken with the DeepMind, I felt it relied on saturated-FX too much, but Behringer's monosynths are very good indeed. Recommended. Well done, Behringer, and nice one Noir for the video.
Thank you!
Use the synth you like and enjoy and one you can afford. We are spoiled these days. So much to choose from. I have the Behringer Model D and it sounds good. What if Behringer made a synth with another company name at a low cost?
Same as everyone else has said, well done in having the integrity to evaluate a synth on its merits and appropriately change your view. I 100% agree with you moog comments as well- I’m sort of behringers target market I would love to have a classic synth but I’m just not in a position to justify the moog premium. It’s great some musicians can afford to support moog as a company, but it’s also great behringer are using modern manufacturing to allow people like me to have access to instruments that would be unobtainable otherwise.
I have mine for about 3 years now, and still works perfectly. Also pretty happy with my B2600 and X32 rack mixer.
That said, I am apprehensive of their business practices, and the toxicity of their cultish fans. Kinda puts me off from buying any more of their stuff.
Same. Love their stuff, I own a mixer and it’s been so solid for years, it’s the toxic fans and haters that ruin it. Even if I don’t need any of their synths, I understand why they’re loved.
I love my Model D and my Neutron..and I'm getting the Pro 1 and 808..Behringer are killing it
Nice video. And it's great that you can admit to (drum roll) ... HAVING AN OPEN MIND! Fantastic dude. Good on ya. (Really love the channel too.)
I'd like to point out that you don't need the loopback cable to get filter feedback on the Behringer D... if EXT IN is on with nothing plugged in, it loops back automatically.
Haha, I’ve heard. Look at me treating it like an OG Model D. Behringer, knew what to do!
@@NoirEtBlancVie yep, i did the same thing when i first got it, then read the manual on something unrelated and was like... huh...
Really appreciate that man!
Your videos are so cool brother. Love the visual style. Great presentation too.
Love the video, and your channel. I’ve gotten away from
Hardware synths, but it’s good to know your thoughts on this synth if I ever go back.
It takes a big man. That did sound really good and make me more curious. I'm used to the questionable Behringer quality so... well done, Sir.
I think there’s a new semi modular synth announced called the Crave- and also the Behringer MS-101 (Roland SH-101 clone) is now available for pre-order. That may be an interesting synth to review.
My only complaint about the B Model D is a feature for some - it's tiny. I wouldn't want to play one on stage in the same way I'd play a real Model D. But that's about my only real complaint. It makes some sounds that my Voyager doesn't make! Many people will appreciate the small size.
I sold mind for store credit( reluctant ly)months ago.Buying one again yes it's that good.
Maybe a bit off-topic. I do understand why people had doubts about behringer. I was one of those who bought the virtualizer pro from behringer only to decide to NEVER buy behringer again. Tbh it was a piece of crap that failed working after a year and didn't sound that good. At that time i've put the blame on myself, what did i expect from something that cheap? That was about 10 years ago.
However, when i was cruising thru my local music shop, i saw this red piece of gear just staring at me. I did notice the behringer logo and thought: "Well let's try it out, just to assure my opinion i had about that particular brand and prove to myself this had to be a piece of junk...." .
I'm talking about the neutron and it sounds ... well different.
I bought it straight away and after playing with it for a while now, i can only say it was the most fun i had since i was introduced to analog synthesis in form of the MS-10. That's about 25 years ago and that little beast still has a special place in my heart. Yes i dare to compare it's fun factor ( read : inspiration )and versatility with that little legend.
I owned a lot of synths and sold a good bunch of them, but as far i can tell, the neutron is a keeper. Well made, lots of patching connectors and capable of producing interesting percussive sounds, pads, leads and full on bonkernes.
Just to say that i have the feeling that behringer is on to something atm. In times musicians are spoiled when it comes to choices, they managed to stick out in some way. SO if you are on a budget and are looking for a good synth ( i can't believe i would ever say this in my life ), maybe look at behringer.
Excellent video. I've got Moog and Behringer. This is a great time for us I think. The 303MO slays me.
Leaving Guitar Center with one in hand. They had them brand new at $227.99 until 12/11/19. I’m in the Raliegh/Durham area. I don’t know if it the price is the same online but I couldn’t say no.
Yeah, I saw the crazy price drop, at under $230, no brainer!
Noir Et Blanc Vie Yep had to. Alto music has them for $208.00 and the price is honored online for those interested on getting one on GC online.
I have a Moog, i love it, but I will never make a track that is good ever. If i could, it definitely wouldn't matter if i had a Moog.
Full Disclosure: I'm a true-blue Moog fan and owner. At one of our monthly local synth meets I got a chance to try out the Behringer Model D and Neutron, side by side. Just my personal preference, but the Neutron is the more interesting instrument, with its own sound character and a comprehensive set of patch points. As for the D, it does indeed have that "Moog sound" and is a nice little full-voice synth module. The build quality of both is good, with maybe just a slight edge favoring the the Neutron. My only caveat to both is to warn those who are thinking about putting these in a Eurorack case to understand that the D takes up an expansive 70hp and the Neutron is even bigger at 84hp. However, as desktops modules, they are great.
John Irby also, u lose usb when u go eurorack. That means u won’t be able to get to some of the secret features accessible only via their app. Such as the osc2 hold function.
Deepmind 12 is a future classic without a doubt. And if they continue to sell like hotcakes the best part is that we won't have to deal with inflated prices 15 years down the road because there will be plenty of them.
I thought your original video on this was well-thought-out, but I can also appreciate a revisiting of the same topic to expand on it, and it's pretty commendable anytime someone is willing to admit "eh, maybe I was a little off-base before." I can't see why people would be pissed off about the original video, though. Oh wait, it's the internet.
I like the Model D but i am looking over at the Subsequent 37 and i just love the sound of it a lot better. And it is Moog... but over 1k for a mono that growls a tiny bit better is a hard sale. Maybe i should just bite in or just work more with and on the Model D... i had two by the way and the were both equal in quality, despite one being from an earlier batch. As for quality, check out the Neutron if you haven't. It also is a solid piece and i love it.
Well, you also get a Mod section and patch memory. And keys.
You got a good one, mine can't keep the tuning and the key tracking is horrible.
A moog and a behringer together would be dope