@@Markthealien fun fact; they were initially supposed to be, but the writer who created Nick refused to allow them to use the character, so he was renamed Tom.
Yeah, getting re-promoted does seem to cheapen the whole thing. C’mon, writers: conviction. He broke protocol and got in a heap of trouble. Don’t let him get off so easily.
She reminds me of a case worker I had 8 years ago when I was 26, and just got busted picking up opiates from a dealer they were watching. She looked the exact same and she believed in me the same way janeway believed in tom Paris when she released him in the first episode. It actually inspired me to get my act together because I was glad to have someone like her have my back. Totally related to Tom Paris a lot during those first couple of years. Sorry for all the info but I had to share that with someone
@@ianbrewer4843 How? Tom's attack on the air refineries was halted by Voyager. The problem had only just been discovered. No opportunity for the wider scientific or civilian community to weigh in was provided. Just Tom on a one man crusade to 'do the right thing now' instead of giving the people the time to figure out what the right thing was on their own. Or to put it another way, he saved the Titanic... and as a result, no seismic shift in passenger safety and ocean cruise liner safety checks would occur for the long term. What Tom did was wrong. He knew it but allowed his feelings to cloud his long term thinking. Instead the people he tried to save will know that StarFleet is a risky partner as their officers will go off halfcocked and nearly ruin what they view positively with weapons fire.
@@jimhuffman9434 Prime Directive is extremely vague. They keep yelling each time that Star Fleet shall NOT interfere, in any shape or form, with a alien civilization. This includes but not limited to: Cultural influence, Economical influence or TECHNOLOGICAL influence. They literally gave highly advanced (for the residents of this colony at least) shielding technology and pretty much a bootleg replication technology just so these 80.000 spacefaring colonists could remain there. While they absolutely ignored anyone else who were dying of thirst and hunger all over the Delta Quadrant. Were so adamant about preventing less advanced species getting their hands on advanced technology, every single time they destroyed it (case and point to Season 1 episode 1)
@@jameswasil Dude, I'm fairly anti sjw and you make me look like I suckle up with antifa. There's nothing SJW about her. It's also got absolutely nothing to do with Tom being white. Stop being a fucking sexist. Get a grip you pathetic pussy
@@jameswasil Dude, imagine as a black man being forcibly taken from your home in Africa, put aboard an overcrowded slave ship bound for America or the West Indies, where you are chained to a bunk with other black men and women, packed like sardines in filthy conditions on a journey that will take weeks. Now that is Hell! Tom Paris's 30 days in solitary, aboard a 24th century starship is a stay in a luxury hotel compared to that.
Respect having one's right and responsibility to choose your own future stripped away by an officer/activist who saw an immediate solution... and tried to action his will before the scientific and public community could weigh in? Here's the thing about change. You have to take people with you. If you instigate against the will and resolve of the people, you will be labelled as an activist. That is what Tom chose to be when he should have considered his position as an officer.
Tom Baker Have you any idea how violent Klingon love making is? I recall a scene where Jadzia Dax visited sickbay for treatment to a few.....erm.....”scratches and bumps” from a session of “rumpy pumpy” with Worf. I know B’ellana is half Klingon, but after 30 days of undesired abstinence from the “beast with four legs”, she must have literally been chomping at the bit to get Tom Paris into her boudoir....and probably took him within a hair’s breadth of Stovokor....!! 😳🙄😏
Vagitarian Umm, not quite. Worf did not beat Jadzia. Any injuries suffered during their love making sessions were purely from unbridled passion and nothing more. Klingons by their very nature are powerful and equally passionate beings. When two Klingons “get jiggy with it”, the fur literally flies. Unbridled passion takes control of their senses and they lose themselves in the....er....doubtlessly prolonged moment. Tearing, scratching and biting at each other would be the norm between Klingons (I would wager). After all, this is the race of beings who would KILL you, if you were invited to dinner by your Klingon host, and neglected to BURP LOUDLY at the end of the meal (and perhaps during it too). Burping loudly signifies that you thoroughly enjoyed your hosts meal, it was well prepared and you appreciated being invited to partake of it. That’s Klingon culture for you. Ergo, any male or female human engaging in.....er.....coitus, with a Klingon partner, can expect to be thoroughly put through a extremely passionate session of Klingon....um, shagging, which would doubtlessly include a form of equally extreme foreplay that would make your average Snowflake softy faint in horror. T’is the Klingon way. Klingons can easily shake this off with minimum damage. A tough human (or Trill like Jadzia) could probably manage this too. Jadzia, fyi, was very keen on Klingon customs and folklore. It is worth noting that Jadzia’s idea of early morning exercise, was engaging in a wrestling bout with not one.....but TWO MALES (Deep Space Nine). I’m sure she beat them both too! This was no ordinary female, and I’m sure she gave as good as she got when she and Worf got around to their horizontal liaisons. So, to recap, he wasn’t beating her (a la domestic abuse), but rather, making love like a true Klingon warrior. I suspect from a purely biological (and psychological) point of view, this helped Klingon individuals ensure that they chose the best of their warrior race, by grading them on how....er.....enthusiastic their lovemaking was. Of course, some of what I just wrote could well be complete bollocks, but I’d like to believe I’ve told you pretty much the truth, extrapolated and surmised (from existing proof) or not. 🤓
That was definitely the longest reply I've ever gotten! I thank you for that! It encourages me! Makes me feel like I'm doing well! Grilka definitely didn't take it easy on Quark either! His head looked like a pumpkin and his arms and fingers all looked broken! Like she was slamming his head in a doorway!
What people miss about this episode is that Janeway frequently indulged Tom and turned a blind eye to his misdemeanors. She let him go to the planet because he had a Captain Nemo fetish and she thought it was cute. But then he took it too far and she had no choice but to come down hard on him or her credibility would be shot.
Yet when Harry Kim engaged in a consensual relationship with an alien species, she put a formal reprimand on his record. Also, she promoted Tom back to lieutenant before Harry.
betotrono better the 30 days in the brig than being demoted to crewman, like the Equinox crew were or being put off the ship on some planet to fend for yourself and short of a miracle, never see the Alpha Quadrant again.
30 days is enough to make a lot of people crazy in the head. It's torture. I would not expect starfleet to start waterbording so why allow this shit? And putting him back on duty the next day after this shit is insane.
Star Trek solitary is a small room, yes, but with a force field instead of a fourth wall, and a security officer standing outside. So not exactly Gitmo.
Then in *literally* the next episode, Janeway violates the prime directive to help members of an alien race evade the authorities. What did Tom do? Try to disable a few *world-destroying* refineries, which were evacuated ahead of time, at the request and assistance of one of their government officials. This is a man who saved Voyager and the crew from the Kazon and Seska. :\
She got away with it because of plot armor. Just like how the number of photon torpedoes they used was 3x or more what they started with because of plot torpedoes.
But they don't care about that fact or his good deeds because, you know, he's a white man and white people aren't supposed to be heroes anymore according to leftists and SJW bullshit. Fuck Janeway and the transporter she beamed up on.
@Drew Taylor Never bothered to watch Discovery after this. Although I did like Voyager, things like this were part of why I refused to watch anything else unless they brought back a TNG series or they cooled it with the feminist and anit-male/anti-white attacks they threw into their scripts. Yes, I know when it aired, because I watched it on UPN WHEN it aired originally. Not my first rodeo, Drew. :-/ SJWs were a thing during the Clinton Administration, they just weren't as out of control and ridiculous about it as they are now. There was no Facebook or Myspace or TH-cam yet, and most of what they said or did was limited to indie media that no one really watched and online usenet groups that only they read themselves. It wasn't overly touted and hadn't polluted every movie or TV show and things were still enjoyable. Be that as it may, their little inserts like what we see on this video clip, even toward the middle to late 1990's as they became more audacious, were repulsive and inexcusable. I guess these days the truth is "crap" to those who don't like it, but what's true is true. There were still heavy overtones for liberal and leftist ideology with TNG at times, but they were not vicious or defamatory about it when Gene Roddenberry was still alive. Voyager wasn't always that way, but when it was, it was definitely noticed and hard to miss.
@@jameswasil Technically speaking Gene Roddenberry would be considered an SJW by today's standards. Considering star trek has been preaching "SJW bullshit" since the civil rights era in the mid 1960's. If it bothers you that much my suggestion to you would be to quit watching star trek. Because trust me if Gene were alive today he wouldn't want you watching his shit.
At least Picard said to Data... "You disobeyed a direct order, i will be putting a reprimand in your permanent record...(pause)... And Mr. Data... Nicely done!"
Actually, Picard didn't reprimand him. Data submitted himself for disciplinary action, but Picard noted that Starfleet didn't want officer's who blindly obeyed orders. Picard said that he would note Data's exemplary conduct in his record and followed it up with the "Nicely done."
@@josephmassaro remember in the US military we train our officers to take the initiative even if it means disobeying orders. disobey can be tolerated to some extent if it has good outcomes but if it has bad outcomes you will be court-martialed.
@@attiepollard7847 Yes, Picard made that point several times. Blindly obeying and claiming "I was only following orders." has led to many tragedies in history.
It's what makes him a better captain. He knew wrong from right, but he also knew Star Fleet rules and procedures. He was formal, but informal when the time called for it.
Just no and it's barely solitary confinement he had access to a PADD he was brought meals from the mess hall 3 times a day and could have visitors if anything he had too many privileges for someone being punished.
@@JenkoRun Yeah, as if anyone in the US prison system wouldn't take this over reality in a heartbeat. You lead a privileged life if you think this is atrocious.
I reading a lot of people bashing Captain Janeway. But it was about respect. It was hurtful on both ends. But Janeway had to Captain Non-Starfleet crew members and Chakotay needed to see Janeway as a true solid Captain. Everyone knew she needed to still discipline all disobeying crew members no matter what rank they have or how personal they were to her. No exceptions!
They were 5 years into their journey at this point, and the entire crew were past the Starfleet/Maquis rivalries. They were genuinely close friends. I think Janeway was right to be pissed but the solitary confinement thing is a bit intense. There is a chain of command, but they're also friends...idk I wish that relationship was explored a bit more. It's complex when you have to be in charge of the only people you interact with regularly.
I don't think anyone argues against that. What people argue is that Janeway comes off as a "Seinfeld"-hating Allied liberal hypocrite. Starfleet at its finest. Her decisions speak for themselves.
There’s a difference between “maintaining discipline” and “cruel and unusual punishment”. She could have sentenced him to being confined to quarters while off duty, limiting his extra-curricular activities for 30 days, but at least allowing him to report for duty. Sentencing someone to solitary confinement is uncalled for, especially when no harm resulted from his actions. Like someone else said, even Suder wasn’t sentenced to solitary, and he actually murdered someone!
This was one of the handful of episodes that actually made use of the secondary characters’ very interesting traits. Scenes like this just make me wish there’d been more of them. We’d have had a fine show if there had.
Isnt this the same guy...that took back the Voyager and saved everyone stranded on that planet? Wow...another reason Ive never liked Janeway. She can break the rules whenever she pleases...
@@cadkls She has no moral code. She only knows hypocrisy and how to attack others for what they do, never for what she does herself, which is often times more wrong than what her subordinates ever did.
jameswasil I’m going to redirect you to her multiple attempts to sacrifice herself for her crew, particularly when they were crossing the void and she was going to strand herself to destroy the vortex so her crew would get home faster....
@dark zeratul That's just so incorrect. You do know it's simply because of the writing of the show...right? The whole episode was doing what you believe in despite the consequences, so for him to be reprimanded they had to have Janeway do it.
Don’t worry. Voyager was episodic rather than story arc. He’ll be up to Admiral in a few episodes. This is why DS9 kicks voyagers ass in terms of interweaving story acts, consistent character development and consequences for actions.
No thanks. DS9's constant twists and shifting alliances grew tiresome - and the hammy overacting was hysterical. Shatner would have seemed like a shy introvert on DS9.
You forget.... there's torture and there's the Jane-way. She tortured and nearly killed a Starfleet crewman because he wouldn't divulge his captain's whereabouts... Chakotay had to stop her and then she relieved him of duty. If I had been on that ship, there would have been either a mutiny or a dead captain very, very quickly. The woman was a putz.
@m_train Gaming 4 months late, but that's not made-up. It is internationally understood that 30 days of solitary confinement would indeed give you permanent psychological damage. It's considered as a form of torture and is heavily spoken out against worldwide. You're welcome to look up articles or just google anything about it, really.
Probably also means put off the ship at the nearest warp-capable, Class‐L or higher planet capable of supporting humaniod life or an uninhabited planet like Kirk did Khan. Short of a miracle, he'd never see Earth or the Alpha Quadrant again. Resigning in thar situation would be a hard choice
This was always one of the major reasons that I never like Janeway. She was such a hypocrite. It was all right for her to do whatever she wanted, even breaking the major rules of Star Fleet. Her reasoning, oh I'm doing it for the benefit of my crew. Yet when someone else like Tom tries to help others for a similar reason, it's the worst thing in the world. It's a wonder to me that there weren't more mutinies when you have to deal with a leader like that.
I wish i was a character in this at this point, i would have said, 'You are a good Starfleet officer, but you are not a good Captain' Kate Mulgrew's performance in voyager was great, but her character suffered greatly in writing. always flipping on choices, making her a hypocrite during the 7 years. Putting her own righteous viewpoint over the safety of her crew. I like voyager, but sometimes i have to put aside whats wrong with it to actually enjoy it....
Indeed. The captain's job is to make the hard decisions. If a captain's job was to follow the regulations blindly then it could be done by a robot. The whole point of being a captain is that you have the experience to understand when the regulations might need to be bent. While the job of a lieutenant is to follow the captain's orders. There is a significant difference between not following regulations and not following orders.
Well, demotion means loss of pay and benefits. He was presumably demoted two ranks AND TWO PAY GRADES. Sure, he doesn't have anywhere to spend the money, but the amount going into his back-pay account would be going down significantly. (And to those who say there is no "money" in Star Trek...uh, the writers in their more utopian moments try to say that here and there, but then there are multiple references throughout canon that indicate there IS. And since a moneyless society makes almost no sense whatsoever, I'm going with the idea that money does still serve as a means of reward and for allocation of resources.)
@@lynnpoint6395 Yeah, a moneyless society is not feasible unless you have literally _infinite_ resources. "Money doesn't exist" would mean that every Federation citizen should be entitled to whatever they want. Can I as a random person ask for and be granted my own Galaxy class ship? What about my own moon? If I can't, then those resources must be allocated according to some ranking, and you can call it however you want but at the end of the day that's equivalent to money. Just because everyone can have basic necessities like a house _somewhere_ and basic food and commodities for free, it doesn't mean that money has magically disappeared. It just means they have more encompassing welfare than we have today.
Why is the Federation, an enlightened, egalitarian organisation still practicing solitary confinement in the 24th century despite its known psychological detriments to the detainee? Paris must have had a hell of a counseling session with the doctor.
It was a figure of speech, she didn't literally mean dinner, the meal you eat in the evening. She was probably on the late shift, and it would be her dinner.
this is ship time. Her sleep schedule may diverge from what you would normally expect depending on her shift. Since there is no day/night cycle time becomes somewhat arbitrary. She probably works from 2200 til 0600 eats dinner afterwards and goes to bed.
B'ehlanna's reaction to Paris made me think of the line from "A Few Good Men". "There is nothing sexier than a woman you have to salute in the morning."
Solitary confinement is now considered torture. It's great we're starting to catch up and exceed previous decade's imagination and mutual regard in at least one area.
This is stupid. Janeway breaks the rules all the time. No one questions her. No one disciplines her. Janeway claims all Voyager crew are to follow the prime directive except for the exception: Captain Janeway.
Who's going to discipline her? Every Starfleet officer in the quadrant is either under her command, or under the command of captain with less seniority.
its not about breaking rules, but breaking chain of command. she was put in the position of captain because starfleet trusted her to make the decisions in the field and decide when rules need to be followed and when it is impossible to do so. Additionally she IS the highest ranking officer in all the delta quadrant. Tom Paris was not in that position. If he wants to make his own decisions as a person that is fine. But as an officer he has to uphold the chain of command. If he cant do so he is still welcome to serve as ensign, but has no place to be an officer on the ship
She's the boss, deal with it. Besides this was earlier in the journey..she did start to loosen up later, the crew disobeyed her plenty of times and out right mutany toward EndGame when she wanted to go alone in a shuttle.
@@IamMonikaDLC I think he was demoted to prevent a mutiny and set an example to those not from Star Fleet. They would eat a weak captain alive if left and I would do the same in her shoes
The rules still exist, and cannot be broken because you think you know better. Not everthing requires your intervention, sometimes pragmatism is the best approach.
1:43 From SFDebris' review of this episode: --Paris: "Wait, solitary confinement?" --Janeway: "Yep." --Paris: "A punishment so in opposition to basic human dignity, that even the 19th century Supreme Court said it was wrong?" --Janeway: "Did they?" --Paris: "That many international treaties consider so psychologically damaging, that it fits the legal definition of torture." --Janeway: "You ARE a history buff, aren't you?" --Paris: "Yet in our utopian future of reform the downtrodden, save the rainforest, put a therapist next to the captain, no animals were harmed in the making of this steak, you'll employ a punishment officially criticized, only 25 years after slavery was still legal and people were still dumping buckets of human shit out their windows." --Janeway: "You have to be extra strict to ensure discipline on a starship." --Paris: "STRICT?! You didn't even sentence SUDER to solitary confinement!" --Janeway: "Well, of course. All he did was murder a man for no reason, but YOU, you defied me! You're lucky I don't have you flayed."
It's weird watching these old episodes reminds why I did not like Janeway... It had nothing to do with the fact that she is a woman... she was just a "Hard Ass"
Galina “Red” Reznikova, ran the kitchen in “Orange is the new black”. You come to appreciate Kate Mulgrew as an actress when you see her in that role, playing a Russian prisoner. Exhilarating!
She was only tough when she needed to be, in many situations she's actually much more emotional and personal than Picard, likely due to staying on a ship with the same people for years. However from one episode to another you can get completely different Janeways, and I suppose it relies entirely on the situation.
To everyone calling Janeway a hypocrite, you are judging her actions and Paris' actions as if they are civillians in everyday life.. Military officers, especially serving in a hazzardous duty/combat scenario are different. Janeway has experience and training that Paris doesn't. Janeway has been granted the command of a ship based on that because a ship captain has to be able to make hard decisions quickly and has supporting officers and specialists beneath her to advise her. Paris doesn't have that. The captain is allowed/required to make decisions and take actions that others cannot. Also, the captain is ultimately responsible for the ship and all actions by the officers under the captains command. The captain has more rights and leeway to act than anyone else, but also has more responsibility and has th eultimate responsibility. That responsibility is not on everyone else. Someone has to be the ultimate authority on a ship, desipte Roddenberrys silly dream of command by a council on TNG. Paris did the right thing, although he maybe could have done it better. Janeway couldn't let it slide though because dicsipline must be maintained or the ship can't function. Maybe she could have been less harsh. (Yes, I know Starfleet isn't supposed to be a military organization, but let's face it, it is).
Janeway: Blah, blah, blah... and conduct un-becoming and officer. Do you have anything to say. Paris: I haven't held a Starfleet commission since before we met. Janeway: I'm demoting you to Ensign. Paris: Okay... still not technically a member of Starfleet... do you want me to fly the ship or what? Or is Reg Barclay sending you a Wesley Crusher hologram next?
He really did need a promotion after how many times he was the one that ended up saving voyager. Look there goes Paris again picking up after you guys😂😆
I doubt it. Janeway is a hypocrite, she's also a liar and a cheat. She could seriously give Hillary Clinton a run for her money if they both were Starfleet, but Janeway would likely end up like Vince Foster did from a "suicidal phaser blast" to the back of the head. Hillary doesn't like competition, and I doubt Janeway would figure it out in time.
jameswasil Agreed. Harry Kim probably had to work twice as hard than Tom Paris to get into Starfleet Academy. It also helps that Tom Paris had the inside track, being the son of an Admiral.
I do agree with that. Picard and Janeway both treated the Prime Directive almost like a religion, blindly following it under the misguided presumption that it always led to a morally correct outcome when clearly it does not. The Prime Directive should have been more of a general guideline or principle. But they treated it like it was a commandment, oftentimes ignoring the spirit of the law in favor of sticking to the letter of the law. The Prime Directive was intended to reduce the potential for harm and result in the most good outcome. But when you have the power to save innocent people from dying and you choose to let them die anyway in order to follow the rules, then it’s a shit rule. You’re no longer following any principles, it just becomes dogma at that point.
Hrm. I don't really understand the point of reducing his rank. Starfleet doesn't pay its officers (plus, in this case, they're stranded in the Delta quadrant), so a demotion doesn't reduce his paycheck. He's still the chief conn officer because he's the best pilot on the ship, so his duties didn't change.
I'm wondering under what authority does Janeway have to reduce him in rank. Officers hold commissions and the only authority to revoke or amend a commission is whoever issued the commission; in this case Starfleet. That explains why Kim was never promoted on the show, they had no contact with Starfleet. Then again the writers just tend to make shit up like how alternate universe Picard remained a lieutenant for twenty plus years.
Janeway actually granted him the field commission to lieutenant at the end of "Caretaker," so, I suppose it could be that. Also, you forget: Janeway was God. What Janeway said, went, even if she contradicted herself every five episodes. Who made Janeway God you may ask? Janeway the God of course. In real life at the end of Voyager, she should have been court-martialed for numerous reasons, violating the Prime Directive being most prominent, the events in "Caretaker," (where Tuvok MENTIONED to her that destroying the Caretaker's Array "Would affect the balance of power in this system. The Prime Directive applies," Captain," Janeway replied: "Would it? We never asked to be involved, Tuvok. But we are. We are,") "False Profits," "Blink of an Eye," and "Endgame" itself, being the most notable examples. To say nothing of having aided the Borg, the Federation's "most lethal enemy" to quote Picard, when they should have used the invasive program from the "Enterprise," to destroy the Borg, per Admiral Nechayev's standing orders.
@@sethtubman647 But Jewway Janeway probably forced the crew to celebrate immoral "pride" parades by changing the ship into rainbow colors after forcing them to overlook her obvious hypocrisy and bullshit stranding them in the Delta quadrant and defying the prime directive, only to attack and demote white men and asian men as the piece of shit feminist that she is. Some animals are more equal than others, and Janeway decides which of those animals are kosher enough for that assignment, even if they're fucking BORG. Did I say Fuck Janeway already before? If not, let me do it again. FUCK JANEWAY. Hypocritical bitch that she is should have been ejected out of a shuttlebay. By "accident", of course.
ship time. there is no day/night cycle on a spaceship. people work and live in shifts. You eat dinner at 7 am if you work 10pm til 6am and sleep from 10 am to 6pm.
the night the day is determined by the planet where you find yourself. in a spaceship, it is not subject to a natural order as it is found on a planet. >>>it can be day and night at the same time.
I tried watching the very first star trek series on Netflix but I'm only 30 so I grew up watching capt Picard, Then Sisko, Then Janeway. Watching the first star trek is too odd and boring for me. Anyone else feel this way. Voyeger was my favorite series.
The best episodes of TOS are well worth watching. You just have to try to get past the old aesthetic and pay attention to the script. In the better episodes, there seems to be more balance in some of the issues they are dealing with rather than the smug preachiness that comes across in the later series at times, especially TNG.
Sometimes you have to stand outside the law and break all the rules to do what's right. But in civilized society, we must also be prepared to accept the repercussions of doing so. This is particularly meaningful for me as a community organizer with 25 years of experience at law-breaking.
This is why I hate Janeway and Archer. Archer gave trip shit for teaching a slave to read and was totally fine with them being a slave just because he needed spare parts. Janeway tortures Paris after he saves an entire civilization. Janeway is still one of the best captains but I hate her lmao
he did not save civilization, he interfered and coerced them. what was seen as aggression by the aqua sovereignty, that before wanting to be saved wants to respect his sovereignty and he disobeyed a clear order from his captain who is the only one to make the decisions. the pilot has nothing to say just shut his mouth. paris behaves like a capricious child who just found a toy
Archer wasn’t that bad, at least when compared to Janeway. The worst he’s done is thrown Reed into the brig for being ordered to commit freaking treason(which actually makes freaking SENSE). All the other times, he’s just yelled at them.
dapranak Why? Because he doesn’t blindly follow hypocritical authority figures? Personally, I would have resigned from Starfleet and told Janeway about herself as soon as my thirty days were up.
Who’s the scariest captain to get a roasting off? Not counting Kirk, because he never seemed really angry that I recall, but would it be Picard, Sisko or Janeway?
You know its just occurred to me these little forcefielded cells they force people to sit in for hours or days at a time don't have any toilets or handwashing utilities
And he STILL had to do his business in front of the security officer on duty. There’s probably a retractable sonic shower in the same cell too. I suspect the humiliation was part of the punishment 😔
calm down, captain. it's not like he attempted a kolvoord starburst maneuver.
Again (Headcannon, Nick and Tom same person)
Haha well done, bravo!!
@@Markthealien fun fact; they were initially supposed to be, but the writer who created Nick refused to allow them to use the character, so he was renamed Tom.
@@GabrielPintoMusic I know actually, well I didn't know it was a writer I thought it was a money thing. That's actually why I said that 😂
I understand that reference
Still got promoted faster than Harry Kim.
Enlisted back into SF, promoted, demoted and then repromoted lmao :P
If I was Harry, I'd have been salty as a motherfucker.
If I were Harry I would have mutinied. I just hope the poor bastard got his long overdue promotion when they got back to earth.
Poor Harry LOL
Yeah, getting re-promoted does seem to cheapen the whole thing. C’mon, writers: conviction. He broke protocol and got in a heap of trouble. Don’t let him get off so easily.
To hear a Vulcan say rise and shine is really something.
_Live risen and shine._ 🖖
He's been around humans too long
"Thomas Eugene Paris"
You know when they use your full name you're in trouble.
The demotion wasn't enough. She should have commanded the crew to call him Eugene for a year as well.
He was saying Ma'am like when my mom catches me in a lie.
It's the same when I lost rank in the Marine Corps. But there's a rhyme and a reason for the rules...even if you were in the right
@@wolfeusmc2011 what did you do if I may ask?
@@otomicans6580 🤣🤣👍👍
Kate Mulgrew is outstanding and the way she disciplined Tom Paris. She reminds of my High School principal.
She reminds me of a case worker I had 8 years ago when I was 26, and just got busted picking up opiates from a dealer they were watching. She looked the exact same and she believed in me the same way janeway believed in tom Paris when she released him in the first episode. It actually inspired me to get my act together because I was glad to have someone like her have my back. Totally related to Tom Paris a lot during those first couple of years. Sorry for all the info but I had to share that with someone
He did the right thing. He may have gone against the badge but his actions ultimately saved millions of lives.
There were only 80,000 people on the planet
@@popefrancis8153 so saved 80,000?
There are a couple of times the Prime Directive has proven a bad idea
@@ianbrewer4843 How? Tom's attack on the air refineries was halted by Voyager. The problem had only just been discovered. No opportunity for the wider scientific or civilian community to weigh in was provided. Just Tom on a one man crusade to 'do the right thing now' instead of giving the people the time to figure out what the right thing was on their own.
Or to put it another way, he saved the Titanic... and as a result, no seismic shift in passenger safety and ocean cruise liner safety checks would occur for the long term.
What Tom did was wrong. He knew it but allowed his feelings to cloud his long term thinking. Instead the people he tried to save will know that StarFleet is a risky partner as their officers will go off halfcocked and nearly ruin what they view positively with weapons fire.
@@jimhuffman9434 Prime Directive is extremely vague. They keep yelling each time that Star Fleet shall NOT interfere, in any shape or form, with a alien civilization.
This includes but not limited to: Cultural influence, Economical influence or TECHNOLOGICAL influence.
They literally gave highly advanced (for the residents of this colony at least) shielding technology and pretty much a bootleg replication technology just so these 80.000 spacefaring colonists could remain there.
While they absolutely ignored anyone else who were dying of thirst and hunger all over the Delta Quadrant. Were so adamant about preventing less advanced species getting their hands on advanced technology, every single time they destroyed it (case and point to Season 1 episode 1)
I loved Tom Paris. He did the right things for his conscious and his crew. You always have to respect that.
But he was White, and that made him a target for that stupid SJW bitch named Janeway
@@jameswasil Dude, I'm fairly anti sjw and you make me look like I suckle up with antifa.
There's nothing SJW about her. It's also got absolutely nothing to do with Tom being white.
Stop being a fucking sexist. Get a grip you pathetic pussy
@@jameswasil Dude, imagine as a black man being forcibly taken from your home in Africa, put aboard an overcrowded slave ship bound for America or the West Indies, where you are chained to a bunk with other black men and women, packed like sardines in filthy conditions on a journey that will take weeks. Now that is Hell! Tom Paris's 30 days in solitary, aboard a 24th century starship is a stay in a luxury hotel compared to that.
Respect having one's right and responsibility to choose your own future stripped away by an officer/activist who saw an immediate solution... and tried to action his will before the scientific and public community could weigh in?
Here's the thing about change. You have to take people with you. If you instigate against the will and resolve of the people, you will be labelled as an activist. That is what Tom chose to be when he should have considered his position as an officer.
Must be nice to have a Klingon girlfriend waiting for you after 30 days alone.
Tom Baker Have you any idea how violent Klingon love making is? I recall a scene where Jadzia Dax visited sickbay for treatment to a few.....erm.....”scratches and bumps” from a session of “rumpy pumpy” with Worf. I know B’ellana is half Klingon, but after 30 days of undesired abstinence from the “beast with four legs”, she must have literally been chomping at the bit to get Tom Paris into her boudoir....and probably took him within a hair’s breadth of Stovokor....!! 😳🙄😏
Worf sure did beat the shit out of Jadzia Dax during their violent intercourse! Not sure it's something I'd look forward to!
Vagitarian Umm, not quite. Worf did not beat Jadzia. Any injuries suffered during their love making sessions were purely from unbridled passion and nothing more. Klingons by their very nature are powerful and equally passionate beings. When two Klingons “get jiggy with it”, the fur literally flies. Unbridled passion takes control of their senses and they lose themselves in the....er....doubtlessly prolonged moment. Tearing, scratching and biting at each other would be the norm between Klingons (I would wager).
After all, this is the race of beings who would KILL you, if you were invited to dinner by your Klingon host, and neglected to BURP LOUDLY at the end of the meal (and perhaps during it too). Burping loudly signifies that you thoroughly enjoyed your hosts meal, it was well prepared and you appreciated being invited to partake of it. That’s Klingon culture for you.
Ergo, any male or female human engaging in.....er.....coitus, with a Klingon partner, can expect to be thoroughly put through a extremely passionate session of Klingon....um, shagging, which would doubtlessly include a form of equally extreme foreplay that would make your average Snowflake softy faint in horror.
T’is the Klingon way. Klingons can easily shake this off with minimum damage. A tough human (or Trill like Jadzia) could probably manage this too. Jadzia, fyi, was very keen on Klingon customs and folklore.
It is worth noting that Jadzia’s idea of early morning exercise, was engaging in a wrestling bout with not one.....but TWO MALES (Deep Space Nine). I’m sure she beat them both too! This was no ordinary female, and I’m sure she gave as good as she got when she and Worf got around to their horizontal liaisons.
So, to recap, he wasn’t beating her (a la domestic abuse), but rather, making love like a true Klingon warrior.
I suspect from a purely biological (and psychological) point of view, this helped Klingon individuals ensure that they chose the best of their warrior race, by grading them on how....er.....enthusiastic their lovemaking was.
Of course, some of what I just wrote could well be complete bollocks, but I’d like to believe I’ve told you pretty much the truth, extrapolated and surmised (from existing proof) or not. 🤓
That was definitely the longest reply I've ever gotten! I thank you for that! It encourages me! Makes me feel like I'm doing well! Grilka definitely didn't take it easy on Quark either! His head looked like a pumpkin and his arms and fingers all looked broken! Like she was slamming his head in a doorway!
@@PouchMaster Death by snoo-snoo! :D
Everyone on that ship will be commanding their own ship while poor Kim is still manning his operations station on the bridge.
What people miss about this episode is that Janeway frequently indulged Tom and turned a blind eye to his misdemeanors. She let him go to the planet because he had a Captain Nemo fetish and she thought it was cute. But then he took it too far and she had no choice but to come down hard on him or her credibility would be shot.
Yet when Harry Kim engaged in a consensual relationship with an alien species, she put a formal reprimand on his record. Also, she promoted Tom back to lieutenant before Harry.
Shave? Shave what? Its looks like they told him to skip the weekend shaving and then shot the scene on Monday.
30 days solitary is pretty draconian for an enlightened human society
betotrono better the 30 days in the brig than being demoted to crewman, like the Equinox crew were or being put off the ship on some planet to fend for yourself and short of a miracle, never see the Alpha Quadrant again.
Still the military.
30 days is enough to make a lot of people crazy in the head. It's torture. I would not expect starfleet to start waterbording so why allow this shit? And putting him back on duty the next day after this shit is insane.
Star Trek solitary is a small room, yes, but with a force field instead of a fourth wall, and a security officer standing outside. So not exactly Gitmo.
xc5647321 xc5647321 rap is not torture. Justin Bieber however...that is another matter entirely.
30 days of solitary confinement at 10 FPS
llamapi3 pahahahahahaha love it 😂
The horror! Nobody deserves that fate...
I would prefer to be shot with a disruptor instead.
_Just kill me instead._
That's against the Geneva Conventions
just a note - 0700 is breakfast. 1900 is dinner/supper.
Not that I disagree with you, but on a ship with no requirement for a day/night cycle, 0700 could be dinnertime for someone.
He couldn't wait.
Then in *literally* the next episode, Janeway violates the prime directive to help members of an alien race evade the authorities. What did Tom do? Try to disable a few *world-destroying* refineries, which were evacuated ahead of time, at the request and assistance of one of their government officials. This is a man who saved Voyager and the crew from the Kazon and Seska. :\
She got away with it because of plot armor. Just like how the number of photon torpedoes they used was 3x or more what they started with because of plot torpedoes.
But they don't care about that fact or his good deeds because, you know, he's a white man and white people aren't supposed to be heroes anymore according to leftists and SJW bullshit. Fuck Janeway and the transporter she beamed up on.
@Drew Taylor Never bothered to watch Discovery after this. Although I did like Voyager, things like this were part of why I refused to watch anything else unless they brought back a TNG series or they cooled it with the feminist and anit-male/anti-white attacks they threw into their scripts.
Yes, I know when it aired, because I watched it on UPN WHEN it aired originally. Not my first rodeo, Drew. :-/
SJWs were a thing during the Clinton Administration, they just weren't as out of control and ridiculous about it as they are now. There was no Facebook or Myspace or TH-cam yet, and most of what they said or did was limited to indie media that no one really watched and online usenet groups that only they read themselves. It wasn't overly touted and hadn't polluted every movie or TV show and things were still enjoyable. Be that as it may, their little inserts like what we see on this video clip, even toward the middle to late 1990's as they became more audacious, were repulsive and inexcusable.
I guess these days the truth is "crap" to those who don't like it, but what's true is true.
There were still heavy overtones for liberal and leftist ideology with TNG at times, but they were not vicious or defamatory about it when Gene Roddenberry was still alive. Voyager wasn't always that way, but when it was, it was definitely noticed and hard to miss.
@@jameswasil Technically speaking Gene Roddenberry would be considered an SJW by today's standards. Considering star trek has been preaching "SJW bullshit" since the civil rights era in the mid 1960's. If it bothers you that much my suggestion to you would be to quit watching star trek. Because trust me if Gene were alive today he wouldn't want you watching his shit.
@@FatalCharade Probably why shows like DS9 were the best. They showed what actual people would do, not make believe characters.
At least Picard said to Data... "You disobeyed a direct order, i will be putting a reprimand in your permanent record...(pause)... And Mr. Data... Nicely done!"
Actually, Picard didn't reprimand him. Data submitted himself for
disciplinary action, but Picard noted that Starfleet didn't want officer's
who blindly obeyed orders. Picard said that he would note Data's
exemplary conduct in his record and followed it up with the "Nicely
done."
He formally reprimanded Worf (Reunion) and Geordi (Interface) on different occasions.
@@josephmassaro remember in the US military we train our officers to take the initiative even if it means disobeying orders. disobey can be tolerated to some extent if it has good outcomes but if it has bad outcomes you will be court-martialed.
@@attiepollard7847 Yes, Picard made that point several times. Blindly obeying and claiming "I was only following orders." has led to many tragedies in history.
It's what makes him a better captain. He knew wrong from right, but he also knew Star Fleet rules and procedures. He was formal, but informal when the time called for it.
Whats worse is he was my weed dealer on voyager.
Just replicate it bro.
Callum Donington Or go with the Saurian brandy.
I volunteered to run Hydroponics
I get the feeling space stoners would believe replicated weed to be inferior.
@@jpaulc441 It would be see synthahol
Solitary confinement is a form of torture that is totally unfit for star fleet. Moments like that really show the badwriting in some of the series
Agreed. What's worse is this form of torture is inhumane.
No it isn't.
Just no and it's barely solitary confinement he had access to a PADD he was brought meals from the mess hall 3 times a day and could have visitors if anything he had too many privileges for someone being punished.
@@tgm9991 I hope you never get a job as a warden for the sake of the inmates.
@@JenkoRun Yeah, as if anyone in the US prison system wouldn't take this over reality in a heartbeat. You lead a privileged life if you think this is atrocious.
I reading a lot of people bashing Captain Janeway. But it was about respect. It was hurtful on both ends. But Janeway had to Captain Non-Starfleet crew members and Chakotay needed to see Janeway as a true solid Captain. Everyone knew she needed to still discipline all disobeying crew members no matter what rank they have or how personal they were to her. No exceptions!
A simple flogging would have sufficed.
They were 5 years into their journey at this point, and the entire crew were past the Starfleet/Maquis rivalries. They were genuinely close friends. I think Janeway was right to be pissed but the solitary confinement thing is a bit intense. There is a chain of command, but they're also friends...idk I wish that relationship was explored a bit more. It's complex when you have to be in charge of the only people you interact with regularly.
I don't think anyone argues against that. What people argue is that Janeway comes off as a "Seinfeld"-hating Allied liberal hypocrite. Starfleet at its finest. Her decisions speak for themselves.
There’s a difference between “maintaining discipline” and “cruel and unusual punishment”. She could have sentenced him to being confined to quarters while off duty, limiting his extra-curricular activities for 30 days, but at least allowing him to report for duty. Sentencing someone to solitary confinement is uncalled for, especially when no harm resulted from his actions. Like someone else said, even Suder wasn’t sentenced to solitary, and he actually murdered someone!
"Replicator, a warm sock."
Sock. aloe vera. warm
Double strong, double sweet.
This comment made me spit my tea out laughing
@@WarzoneMorloc Was it hot? Earl Grey?
This was one of the handful of episodes that actually made use of the secondary characters’ very interesting traits. Scenes like this just make me wish there’d been more of them. We’d have had a fine show if there had.
Isnt this the same guy...that took back the Voyager and saved everyone stranded on that planet? Wow...another reason Ive never liked Janeway. She can break the rules whenever she pleases...
@@jameswasil Hardly, she still stands by her moral code
@@cadkls She has no moral code. She only knows hypocrisy and how to attack others for what they do, never for what she does herself, which is often times more wrong than what her subordinates ever did.
jameswasil I’m going to redirect you to her multiple attempts to sacrifice herself for her crew, particularly when they were crossing the void and she was going to strand herself to destroy the vortex so her crew would get home faster....
@dark zeratul That's just so incorrect. You do know it's simply because of the writing of the show...right? The whole episode was doing what you believe in despite the consequences, so for him to be reprimanded they had to have Janeway do it.
...exactly, he should have asked Janeway take that into account and give him a mulligan. ;)
Love how the captains are the only ones to break the rules, but most are okay, and not demoted... hypocrisy at its finest..
Don’t worry. Voyager was episodic rather than story arc. He’ll be up to Admiral in a few episodes.
This is why DS9 kicks voyagers ass in terms of interweaving story acts, consistent character development and consequences for actions.
DS9's Religion BS was annoying.
No thanks. DS9's constant twists and shifting alliances grew tiresome - and the hammy overacting was hysterical. Shatner would have seemed like a shy introvert on DS9.
@@mgkpraesi Why? Because it presented religion in a respectful manner and didn't take every opportunity to shit on it.
@@montetude_tripple2706 at least voyager didn’t have its crew play hop scotch
@@benyseus6325 you know what...
That's fair.
But at least DS9 doesn't have "Threshold"
He saved Voyager and crew and gets slapped down.
They should have promoted Harry in his place. And solitary confinement? Have they really not realized how cruel that is in the future?
Solitary is internationally recognized as a method of torture. 30 days of solitary confinement causes permanent psychological harm.
He had a data pad, which means he got reading material at a minimum… sounds scary.
You forget.... there's torture and there's the Jane-way. She tortured and nearly killed a Starfleet crewman because he wouldn't divulge his captain's whereabouts... Chakotay had to stop her and then she relieved him of duty. If I had been on that ship, there would have been either a mutiny or a dead captain very, very quickly. The woman was a putz.
Torture? Sounds like bliss
You're wrong.
@m_train Gaming 4 months late, but that's not made-up. It is internationally understood that 30 days of solitary confinement would indeed give you permanent psychological damage. It's considered as a form of torture and is heavily spoken out against worldwide. You're welcome to look up articles or just google anything about it, really.
That's him after 30 days? I'd have a giant beard.
he can shave, brush his teeth and shower when in confinement...
Sure. Maybe a neck beard.
I'm sure he was allowed to perform personal hygiene during his time in the brig.
@@richardlahan7068 30 days in the brig with a padlocked diaper.
Beards come with rank. He lost his.
Who’s [not] going to become an Admiral ? Tom did the right thing...on balance.
Resign your Commission, become a Civilian. More Room for Principles and Less Responsibility. Win - Win.
Probably also means put off the ship at the nearest warp-capable, Class‐L or higher planet capable of supporting humaniod life or an uninhabited planet like Kirk did Khan. Short of a miracle, he'd never see Earth or the Alpha Quadrant again.
Resigning in thar situation would be a hard choice
First thing I'd say after the thirty days: Are we there yet?
This was always one of the major reasons that I never like Janeway. She was such a hypocrite. It was all right for her to do whatever she wanted, even breaking the major rules of Star Fleet. Her reasoning, oh I'm doing it for the benefit of my crew. Yet when someone else like Tom tries to help others for a similar reason, it's the worst thing in the world. It's a wonder to me that there weren't more mutinies when you have to deal with a leader like that.
Shadowstar395 While other crew members steal tech from another civilization which almost damages the ship and they receive no consequences.
Tim Riggins Because those people are vital to the ship's operation. Paris is just a helmsman.
I wish i was a character in this at this point, i would have said, 'You are a good Starfleet officer, but you are not a good Captain' Kate Mulgrew's performance in voyager was great, but her character suffered greatly in writing. always flipping on choices, making her a hypocrite during the 7 years. Putting her own righteous viewpoint over the safety of her crew. I like voyager, but sometimes i have to put aside whats wrong with it to actually enjoy it....
the privilege of being captain.
you confuse a lot of situation by forgetting the rank.
starfleet is like an army.
works like an army
Indeed. The captain's job is to make the hard decisions. If a captain's job was to follow the regulations blindly then it could be done by a robot. The whole point of being a captain is that you have the experience to understand when the regulations might need to be bent. While the job of a lieutenant is to follow the captain's orders.
There is a significant difference between not following regulations and not following orders.
demoting him while stranded far away is pointless, he still did the exact same job
Well, demotion means loss of pay and benefits. He was presumably demoted two ranks AND TWO PAY GRADES. Sure, he doesn't have anywhere to spend the money, but the amount going into his back-pay account would be going down significantly. (And to those who say there is no "money" in Star Trek...uh, the writers in their more utopian moments try to say that here and there, but then there are multiple references throughout canon that indicate there IS. And since a moneyless society makes almost no sense whatsoever, I'm going with the idea that money does still serve as a means of reward and for allocation of resources.)
Actually Voyager establishes that it’d mean he has less ration credits and holodeck time.
@@lynnpoint6395 Yeah, a moneyless society is not feasible unless you have literally _infinite_ resources. "Money doesn't exist" would mean that every Federation citizen should be entitled to whatever they want. Can I as a random person ask for and be granted my own Galaxy class ship? What about my own moon?
If I can't, then those resources must be allocated according to some ranking, and you can call it however you want but at the end of the day that's equivalent to money.
Just because everyone can have basic necessities like a house _somewhere_ and basic food and commodities for free, it doesn't mean that money has magically disappeared. It just means they have more encompassing welfare than we have today.
you would think the enlightened starfleet would have got rid of solitary confinement.
there was a security guy standing right outside his quarters. so, its not that solitary.
Enlightened Starfleet did... Janeway never did.
Should janeway have locked up a few more people to give him company?
Why is the Federation, an enlightened, egalitarian organisation still practicing solitary confinement in the 24th century despite its known psychological detriments to the detainee? Paris must have had a hell of a counseling session with the doctor.
*Tom Paris dealing with being demoted to Ensign + sentenced to prison*
His Gayness Baron von Cockenknocken lol
"You're free for dinner"
"0700"
Dinner with B'Elanna in her quarters at 0700? Where I come from, we have dinner in the evening, not 7 o'clock in the morning.
Maybe she's on the night shift.
There is no day or night cycle in space, but i get where you are comming from.
It was a figure of speech, she didn't literally mean dinner, the meal you eat in the evening. She was probably on the late shift, and it would be her dinner.
this is ship time. Her sleep schedule may diverge from what you would normally expect depending on her shift. Since there is no day/night cycle time becomes somewhat arbitrary. She probably works from 2200 til 0600 eats dinner afterwards and goes to bed.
I guess you don't watch Star Trek. Day and night shifts have been mentioned a few times, at least.
B'ehlanna's reaction to Paris made me think of the line from "A Few Good Men". "There is nothing sexier than a woman you have to salute in the morning."
'If you haven't gotten a blow-job from a superior officer, well, you're just letting the best in life pass you by.'
SeanMaccaUK You’re disgusting
30 days in that cell would be so boring. I would probably go insane with boredom.
I love it when Blana pulls rank!
Tom gets demoted and then promoted AGAIN! Meanwhile years later Harry retires from Starfleet having been demoted to ACTING ensign at 97 years old! 😂
Well at least this time when he broke the rules, he didn't get someone killed just to show off with a flashy shuttle maneuver...
Solitary confinement is now considered torture. It's great we're starting to catch up and exceed previous decade's imagination and mutual regard in at least one area.
This is stupid. Janeway breaks the rules all the time. No one questions her. No one disciplines her. Janeway claims all Voyager crew are to follow the prime directive except for the exception: Captain Janeway.
Who's going to discipline her? Every Starfleet officer in the quadrant is either under her command, or under the command of captain with less seniority.
In the real-life navy, she would be considered Senior Officer Present Afloat, since there are no flag officers around.
its not about breaking rules, but breaking chain of command. she was put in the position of captain because starfleet trusted her to make the decisions in the field and decide when rules need to be followed and when it is impossible to do so. Additionally she IS the highest ranking officer in all the delta quadrant. Tom Paris was not in that position. If he wants to make his own decisions as a person that is fine. But as an officer he has to uphold the chain of command. If he cant do so he is still welcome to serve as ensign, but has no place to be an officer on the ship
She's the boss, deal with it. Besides this was earlier in the journey..she did start to loosen up later, the crew disobeyed her plenty of times and out right mutany toward EndGame when she wanted to go alone in a shuttle.
@@IamMonikaDLC I think he was demoted to prevent a mutiny and set an example to those not from Star Fleet. They would eat a weak captain alive if left and I would do the same in her shoes
The rules still exist, and cannot be broken because you think you know better. Not everthing requires your intervention, sometimes pragmatism is the best approach.
30 solitary confinement, you would have thought that starfleet would have had more efficient punishments.
woah. 30 days is a lot for SC
1:43 From SFDebris' review of this episode:
--Paris: "Wait, solitary confinement?"
--Janeway: "Yep."
--Paris: "A punishment so in opposition to basic human dignity, that even the 19th century Supreme Court said it was wrong?"
--Janeway: "Did they?"
--Paris: "That many international treaties consider so psychologically damaging, that it fits the legal definition of torture."
--Janeway: "You ARE a history buff, aren't you?"
--Paris: "Yet in our utopian future of reform the downtrodden, save the rainforest, put a therapist next to the captain, no animals were harmed in the making of this steak, you'll employ a punishment officially criticized, only 25 years after slavery was still legal and people were still dumping buckets of human shit out their windows."
--Janeway: "You have to be extra strict to ensure discipline on a starship."
--Paris: "STRICT?! You didn't even sentence SUDER to solitary confinement!"
--Janeway: "Well, of course. All he did was murder a man for no reason, but YOU, you defied me! You're lucky I don't have you flayed."
Paris: you'd enjoy it way too much if flayed me alive
Janeway: true but this is not about me
A bad day, for sure. But, I still got promoted faster than Harry 🤣🤣🤣
It's weird watching these old episodes reminds why I did not like Janeway... It had nothing to do with the fact that she is a woman... she was just a "Hard Ass"
Gabri'el Alexander. And even harder ass Running a prison kitchen!
Gabri'el Alexander yep
Galina “Red” Reznikova, ran the kitchen in “Orange is the new black”. You come to appreciate Kate Mulgrew as an actress when you see her in that role, playing a Russian prisoner. Exhilarating!
Only when she needed to be. She didn't ride the crew all the time.
She was only tough when she needed to be, in many situations she's actually much more emotional and personal than Picard, likely due to staying on a ship with the same people for years. However from one episode to another you can get completely different Janeways, and I suppose it relies entirely on the situation.
She's a beautiful woman. You can drown in her eyes.
To everyone calling Janeway a hypocrite, you are judging her actions and Paris' actions as if they are civillians in everyday life.. Military officers, especially serving in a hazzardous duty/combat scenario are different. Janeway has experience and training that Paris doesn't. Janeway has been granted the command of a ship based on that because a ship captain has to be able to make hard decisions quickly and has supporting officers and specialists beneath her to advise her. Paris doesn't have that. The captain is allowed/required to make decisions and take actions that others cannot. Also, the captain is ultimately responsible for the ship and all actions by the officers under the captains command. The captain has more rights and leeway to act than anyone else, but also has more responsibility and has th eultimate responsibility. That responsibility is not on everyone else. Someone has to be the ultimate authority on a ship, desipte Roddenberrys silly dream of command by a council on TNG. Paris did the right thing, although he maybe could have done it better. Janeway couldn't let it slide though because dicsipline must be maintained or the ship can't function. Maybe she could have been less harsh.
(Yes, I know Starfleet isn't supposed to be a military organization, but let's face it, it is).
I've always said that Starfleet is the military arm of the Federation.
@@evertonporter7887 It IS the military arm. It just also has non military functions as well. Scientific and diplomatic and such.
Always wondered if the moment Voyager came through the transwarp conduit, Admiral Paris got a notification that he had a new email from Tom.
Earlier than that. There was a chunk of the series where they were periodically in contact with earth via a comsat network and whatnot.
They should have promoted ensign Kim
Are we going to ignore the fact that brig doesn’t have a washroom? 🤢🤢
If you've read up on Starfleet brigs, you'll know they have "facilities such as a sink and toilet hidden behind a panel in the wall".
His wife couldn’t wait to pull rank on him😂
ranked below harry kim. ouch.
The Voyager Redemption
After my 30 days, I would have resigned... Let them fly the ship themselves.
The ship was decades from human space resigning and doing something else wasn't an option.
@@tgm9991 I'd find something to do.
They do have other people that can man the helm or Janeway can do it herself
"My Quarters, 7 in the morning for Dinner." 🤣
Why not is Kim promoted ???
Janeway: Blah, blah, blah... and conduct un-becoming and officer. Do you have anything to say.
Paris: I haven't held a Starfleet commission since before we met.
Janeway: I'm demoting you to Ensign.
Paris: Okay... still not technically a member of Starfleet... do you want me to fly the ship or what? Or is Reg Barclay sending you a Wesley Crusher hologram next?
Tom had to stay in the brig while a murderer got live in his comfy quarters.
He really did need a promotion after how many times he was the one that ended up saving voyager. Look there goes Paris again picking up after you guys😂😆
I love it how after this video Janeway gives him back him his rank :3
wasn't that like a season later though
He should have resigned and then walked up to her seat on the bridge and pissed on it
Curtis Napier and then what? They in the middle of nowhere
They did the scene wrong, 30 days in a brig, Tom Paris should've had full beard.
ENSIGN! What the hell have I done? She's tough but good!
Torres wanted him badly once he got out of the brig.
Didn't Paris save all their butts when he retook Voyagers from the Kazon than flew it back to the planet the crew was abandoned on.
Soo...was the letter really send to his father when they entered within range of Earth in Endgame?
Noooo. It was sent far, far earlier.
I doubt it. Janeway is a hypocrite, she's also a liar and a cheat. She could seriously give Hillary Clinton a run for her money if they both were Starfleet, but Janeway would likely end up like Vince Foster did from a "suicidal phaser blast" to the back of the head. Hillary doesn't like competition, and I doubt Janeway would figure it out in time.
@@jameswasil Misogynists are sad angry people.
@@mickeye6428 Not as sad as misandrists, feminists, and SJWs though.
@@jameswasil Feminists aren't sad. Misandrists are, but there aren't any of those here. Misogynists are more sad than anybody.
Harry should have been promoted to Lieutenant before Tom Paris was made Lieutenant again.
Yep, but Janeway was a leftist. The only thing she was more than anti-white was anti-asian and it showed with how she treated Harry Kim.
jameswasil Agreed. Harry Kim probably had to work twice as hard than Tom Paris to get into Starfleet Academy. It also helps that Tom Paris had the inside track, being the son of an Admiral.
Harry should have asked for a promotion right after the demotion. I mean, there was a spot available...
Everyone is in sort of solitary confinmet strangled on the spaceship faraway from home. what kind of punishment is that?
Janeway is such a Prime Directive by the book hypocrite.
Picard and her got on my nerves at times for their “Orthodoxy”.
I do agree with that. Picard and Janeway both treated the Prime Directive almost like a religion, blindly following it under the misguided presumption that it always led to a morally correct outcome when clearly it does not. The Prime Directive should have been more of a general guideline or principle. But they treated it like it was a commandment, oftentimes ignoring the spirit of the law in favor of sticking to the letter of the law. The Prime Directive was intended to reduce the potential for harm and result in the most good outcome. But when you have the power to save innocent people from dying and you choose to let them die anyway in order to follow the rules, then it’s a shit rule. You’re no longer following any principles, it just becomes dogma at that point.
Hrm. I don't really understand the point of reducing his rank. Starfleet doesn't pay its officers (plus, in this case, they're stranded in the Delta quadrant), so a demotion doesn't reduce his paycheck. He's still the chief conn officer because he's the best pilot on the ship, so his duties didn't change.
I'm wondering under what authority does Janeway have to reduce him in rank. Officers hold commissions and the only authority to revoke or amend a commission is whoever issued the commission; in this case Starfleet. That explains why Kim was never promoted on the show, they had no contact with Starfleet. Then again the writers just tend to make shit up like how alternate universe Picard remained a lieutenant for twenty plus years.
Janeway actually granted him the field commission to lieutenant at the end of "Caretaker," so, I suppose it could be that. Also, you forget: Janeway was God. What Janeway said, went, even if she contradicted herself every five episodes. Who made Janeway God you may ask? Janeway the God of course. In real life at the end of Voyager, she should have been court-martialed for numerous reasons, violating the Prime Directive being most prominent, the events in "Caretaker," (where Tuvok MENTIONED to her that destroying the Caretaker's Array "Would affect the balance of power in this system. The Prime Directive applies," Captain," Janeway replied: "Would it? We never asked to be involved, Tuvok. But we are. We are,") "False Profits," "Blink of an Eye," and "Endgame" itself, being the most notable examples. To say nothing of having aided the Borg, the Federation's "most lethal enemy" to quote Picard, when they should have used the invasive program from the "Enterprise," to destroy the Borg, per Admiral Nechayev's standing orders.
@@sethtubman647 But Jewway Janeway probably forced the crew to celebrate immoral "pride" parades by changing the ship into rainbow colors after forcing them to overlook her obvious hypocrisy and bullshit stranding them in the Delta quadrant and defying the prime directive, only to attack and demote white men and asian men as the piece of shit feminist that she is. Some animals are more equal than others, and Janeway decides which of those animals are kosher enough for that assignment, even if they're fucking BORG. Did I say Fuck Janeway already before? If not, let me do it again. FUCK JANEWAY. Hypocritical bitch that she is should have been ejected out of a shuttlebay. By "accident", of course.
Janeway took on the Borg herself and won without a sweat. She is the ruler of the galaxy.
tuvok understood
what is epizode?
Pavel V the episode's name is '30 Days'
I guess epizode is a misspelling of the word episode.
Nice of them to give Paris a shaving kit in there and a shower...somewhere. He must reek!
l'd be "tapping" 7 of 9 instead of B'Elanna.
With 7 of 9 would he need grease instead of lube?
Imagine all the Borg women are virgins.
He would need USB 3.0 to get Seven of Nine excited.
He was such an immature character lol!!! And he got 30 days in jail lol
“Mr. Paris, meet your cell mate, Vern Schillnger.” 😬😵🍆
Who has dinner at 7 AM?
SouthpawHare people who work a night shift
English people ?
No, we don't. Dinner at 5pm.
ship time. there is no day/night cycle on a spaceship. people work and live in shifts. You eat dinner at 7 am if you work 10pm til 6am and sleep from 10 am to 6pm.
the night the day is determined by the planet where you find yourself.
in a spaceship, it is not subject to a natural order as it is found on a planet.
>>>it can be day and night at the same time.
That is his beard after 30 days? Wow. LOL
I tried watching the very first star trek series on Netflix but I'm only 30 so I grew up watching capt Picard, Then Sisko, Then Janeway. Watching the first star trek is too odd and boring for me. Anyone else feel this way. Voyeger was my favorite series.
LIBERALGUNSMOKER Voyager was easily the best.
Chazzeruni a lot of people would say that TNG was the best
Adam Demgar DS9 by far
Voyager wasn't my favorite, but I agree about TOS.
The best episodes of TOS are well worth watching. You just have to try to get past the old aesthetic and pay attention to the script. In the better episodes, there seems to be more balance in some of the issues they are dealing with rather than the smug preachiness that comes across in the later series at times, especially TNG.
Sometimes you have to stand outside the law and break all the rules to do what's right. But in civilized society, we must also be prepared to accept the repercussions of doing so. This is particularly meaningful for me as a community organizer with 25 years of experience at law-breaking.
It's ok Janeway, Michael Burnham says you did the right thing. Because Star Fleet Captains there's days need Michael's validation 🙄
Snitches get stitches.
Dinner at 0700? Are they caught in a temporal bubble where time is running backwards or something?
Maquis don't play by federation rules.
This is why I hate Janeway and Archer. Archer gave trip shit for teaching a slave to read and was totally fine with them being a slave just because he needed spare parts. Janeway tortures Paris after he saves an entire civilization. Janeway is still one of the best captains but I hate her lmao
he did not save civilization, he interfered and coerced them.
what was seen as aggression by the aqua sovereignty, that before wanting to be saved wants to respect his sovereignty
and he disobeyed a clear order from his captain who is the only one to make the decisions. the pilot has nothing to say just shut his mouth.
paris behaves like a capricious child who just found a toy
Archer wasn’t that bad, at least when compared to Janeway. The worst he’s done is thrown Reed into the brig for being ordered to commit freaking treason(which actually makes freaking SENSE). All the other times, he’s just yelled at them.
dapranak Why? Because he doesn’t blindly follow hypocritical authority figures? Personally, I would have resigned from Starfleet and told Janeway about herself as soon as my thirty days were up.
.....did Torres just ask Paris out to dinner......at 7 in the morning??
The only meal Klingons know is dinner.
07.00 is 7am. Surely Torres means 19.00 or 7pm
I could guess she took the night shift for the duration of Paris's imprisonment.
My quarters. 0700, That's an order ENSIGN. Well we know who's in charge of THAT relationship.
Captains log, sharp with lumps of corn.
After thirty days, just a five o’clock shadow.
Presumably Tom was allowed to take care of his personal hygiene.
Dinner at 0700? Some tough schedule.
Who’s the scariest captain to get a roasting off? Not counting Kirk, because he never seemed really angry that I recall, but would it be Picard, Sisko or Janeway?
You know its just occurred to me these little forcefielded cells they force people to sit in for hours or days at a time don't have any toilets or handwashing utilities
Yeah they do, The Sink would be hidden under a retractable panel, The toilet would likely be the same way.
That's what I was thinking. My cousins little micro camper had a toilet and basin that folds out of wall cabinets, good little space saver.
And he STILL had to do his business in front of the security officer on duty. There’s probably a retractable sonic shower in the same cell too. I suspect the humiliation was part of the punishment 😔
They just beam the shit right out of you
LOL!! That's when you pray Starfleet engineering bought top of the line transporter targeting scanners. :-)