That's the first thing any Lich does upon establishing their lair "Alexa, if there's an intruder, play Bad to the Bones and send the Necrodancer to greet them"
That moment when the old skelly man is impossible to deal with without prep even when he's lost 4/5ths of himself in both body and mind to basically magic Alzheimer's
@@filipthunell8631 Is that what the new lore is? Cuz the old lore before 5e wasn't that they were starving liches, it was that they were super-liches who had made multiple phylacteries, that being what the gem eyes and teeth are
Or just set traps of your own. If it lives underground in a cave or tomb, plant explosives to seal it in or collapse the tomb on top of it, you can always just excavate the treasure later from the rubble. Or if you know you're going to be fighting a powerful and horrifying monster, load up on some heavy weapons, like siege engines... Even a lich cannot survive a fifty-pound rock flying at it at terminal velocity. Or go and make a deal with some powerful creature that is opposed to "evil" creatures, such as a good-aligned dragon or celestial.
the third is a lack of imagination the demilich basically handed them the win with that antimagic field the party just couldn't work out how to capitalize on that the fear and lair effects are magical so the sorcerer who was encased in an antimagic fiend that moves with her could have walked right up to the demilich and grappled it resulting in it being in her space and thus the field making unable to use any of its magical abilities, from there she walks it over to the fighter who then pounds it into dust over 3 rounds.
As a low to mid level wizard, I had to distract and (to a degree) fight a Demilich by myself once. Why? Because more than half the party decided it would be better to skulk around the various hallways looking for loot rather than come help their distressed friend who was desperately, loudly trying to stall for time and keep the Lich entertained in the vain hope his friends would stop sifting through bookshelves and come save him... All things considered, I wish we had it recorded. It would have been quite funny. 😅
@@deltagearadvanced5140 yeah, but there are a couple abjurative builds that use it + grapple to mess with spellcasters. It'd be my go to against a floating magic skull! Even though the demilich doesn't actually cast spells!
Had a lvl 18 encounter against 1 lich and 4 demilichs. Everyone but me thought the lich was prime target. I privately told the dm what they could do and he paled just a little and quietly adjusted the encounter.
@@jacksonl.2201 Yep, demi-lich sounds like a lesser lich, but in terms of threat level, it's more akin to a lich having ascended to demi-god status...
My favorite just kills you monster is the Swarm of Rotgrubs. +0 to hit, but if you fail to either burn it off or cast lesser restoration, the thing burrows into your heart. Then you are just dead. I let my players if they are feeling panicked enough attempt a little impromptu surgery to cut it out for an extra turn. Funny shit.
@Hollowed0ut Nah. Worse. The Infested has the decency of keeping you alive if you embrace it, or makes it pretty easy to avoid unless you're dealing with Worm Queen. These Lil pricks can bite your finger and functionally tekeport to your heart.
They're definitely a weird creature and i've never used one, specifically for all the reasons you mentioned, but ngl that quest was kinda fun and now i wanna make a campaign where my party are just irs agents going around investigating monsters for tax fraud.
They show up to a dragons lair and its put tarps and crap over all its piles of gold and claims its income is solely from a 1 acre "farm" with dead grass on it
@@HankLoremonger ...sir we're still going to need to take your bank statements and since you're filing under schedule c as "self-employed" we'll also need receipts, invoices, and other evidence of transactions. Our records also indicate that you haven't filed a proper 1099 or w2 form in...ever.
And then the party encounters a red dragon in his human form frantically throwing his wealth into bags labeled "FOR THE IRS" because he's actually scared of them.
Be a necromaner and use your ability to enslave a shadow. Have your controlled shadow attack the demilich. If the attack hits, since the Demilich has a strength of 1, they instantly die.
When the game was detailed enough to include mechanics for negative/positive energy effects (back in 3.5e) most powerful undead were immune to negative energy attacks. As DM I would NOT allow it.
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket Undead were healed by negative energy and damaged by positive energy. Demiliches also had Epic Level spells, which were basically higher than level 9 spells.
Torn between DM allowing a shadow to actually drain a demilich and the old standby that a shadow is just about the most dangerous thing any low-mid-high lv player can get control of a la 3.5
OK so the big problem is that shadows use a life draining ability that transform a creature into a dead pile of nothing, but the demilich is still a lich so it doesn't care about any life ability so as it can not "die" I would argue an effect requiring the target to die will a 100% not work. but still you got some good problem-solving in you keep it up
Actually, entering the Tomb of Horrors is a gauntlet itself, and there are two false entrances that result in a Rocks Fall ending if you try to open the doors.
NO! I will not get through the Tomb of Horrors, only for doing this to every Demilich I come across! It'll cost my sanity! Let me fight Vecna, Demogorgon, Szass Tam or Daurgothoth, but nothing in the Realms will convince me to enter one of Acererak's Dungeons ever again! Except... I'll manage to get three Wishes...
heroes feast, death ward, aura of life, then someone in the party nova's the demi-lich. its harder to pull of any easy combos like this against a regular lich since he has so many counters with his spellcasting.
I mean any monster is hella dangerous if you have the worst party possible to fight it. There's a reason those "useless" martials exist in a proper party someone is going to have remove curse, generally if you have an antimagic field on you your going to dash away not throw a dagger or w/e the sorcerer did most abilities have a 60ft range and wouldn't ya know it a lot of the demiliches abilities have that same issue lol (Which makes another point "What if my players only do stupid actions" is a great way to make even a wolf pack sound OP) Fighters with proper magic items to fight something at this point is going to manage just fine, fear is such a non issue as so many powers and items help with fear, disadvantage is usually figuring out a way to overcome it by getting an advantage through a magic effect or other effect. Demiliches do what they set out to do they kill a party of adventurers who rely to heavily on raw spellcasting magic and have the tatics of a fruit fly like the "mock party" here has lol. Also to add it has one of the worst speeds a 30ft hover, meaning in a proper tatical party with a proper martial to keep its worst abilities busy as a sort of body sponge you can easily screw this guy up at a range.
Demilich is basically DM saying fuck your builds, roll new chracters, but in a way that gives you a ray of hope and fairness. We all know Demilich, Taarrasque and Aboleths are unholy trio of you pissed DM while adhering to MM.
Well, more like Demilich, Aboleth, and 30 Bodaks on some wild, insane Minecraft minecart rollercoaster. Tarrasques are pretty easy to cheese unless New D&D changed it.
I run Demiliches like they just woke up from the most epic nap. Starts off easy with the Demilich just trying to remove the annoyances then waking up more and more getting harder.
Assuming everyone had a 50% chance of succeeding on the howl, it has a 1/8 chance of taking out everyone, 1/2 chance of taking out at least 2 people, and 7/8 chance of taking out at least one person. That's a scary high chance of "save or tpk"
"Reduce to 0 hit points" isn't dead in 5e though. It's nothing a little healing word or healing word, mass can't at least get them back into the fight from. And since the Demilich rarely does actual damage, only having like 4hp after the fact doesn't really hurt your odds all that much.
@@mgb360 Technically the demilich can also choose to capture everyone, so the party doesn't HAVE to die if they drop. They can then plan an escape and return later, now with the knowledge of what to do properly.
@@mgb360 True, but, by the time a party is going to take on a demilich, they should have: 1: the ability to prepare. 2: casters with advantage on their con saves. 3: numerous consumables to blow on tough fights. Pretending that a high level party doesn't have access to options that will make the fight easier is silly, imo.
A party of 3 level 14 PC’s against a CR 18 Demilich, in its lair, let alone with a buddy. A party which knew where they were going, with guides to potentially ask questions of who might know more, and who cast zero precombat spells. Heroes Feast anyone? Of course this was a slaughter lol Another great video, had me laughing the whole time
Yeah seriously the level 14 cleric Heroes feast... Silence (not precast but like so good here) Death Ward Bless any of these would have helped massively Actual beeswax could have worked ignoring spells
@@Doc_Fun The entire fight shouldn’t happen in anyone’s game in the first place lol the party can’t beat a CR 18 when their effective CR is below 14. Missing the recon, planning, precasting, etc. was just icing on an already unbeatable cake
@@sven3428 It is more than possible for 3 level 14's to no prep a cr 18 it depends on a lot of factors like if this were against ancient deep dragon or an Archiac this was winnable (not trival or even like an encounter I would actually throw at them but plausable)... though this one punches a good bit above it's weight class due to the instant down (not kill like he says in the video). Also it being in's layer and no prep was a big reason this was beatdown.
Remember Kids: Orcus can summon 500 hit points worth of Undead The Demilich has 80 hit points (thats 6 Skulls a day, plus change) do with this information what you want
In my early days as a DM (a year ago) I had my party fight a demilich. Party was lvl 8 and was gonna gang up on it. The Demilich ended three of them, but got smited to oblivion by the Paladin.
This monster is the Paladin check. If your party has a paladin, they can take it out at level 6. If they don't, its a near TPK until high levels. That +5 to all saves aura is broken and does not need to exist.
@@archmagemc3561 The many awful things failing a save can do is more broken and part of why Paladins and their auras are the heroes we need and deserve. Also I feel like a Paladin with +5 CHA at 6th level is a little wack
@@Medul759 It's fucking *crazy* that a 20th level Barbarian is generally expected to have the same Wisdom save bonus as a 1st level Barbarian, despite the DCs he's facing having increased many times. I have no idea how that's the design they ended up with.
I've had the idea of have a demi lich chill inside a bag of holding the party finds in a tomb. if the check the bag they never find it but if they turn it inside out there's a surprise.
Devilish. Give them heavy (but easy to count weight) valuable things to put in the bag so you can tell them "it won't fit", they can do the math and find that there's like, two and a half pounds of unaccounted weight consumption blocking the last 10 pounds of capacity or something. They'll turn it out.
@@Yesnaught I don't think anyone is going to bother investigating such a minor inconvenience unless you specifically say something like "It seems there's something else in the bag that you didn't put in." Certainly a fun idea though.
@@Sam_Graves Oh, don't underestimate loot goblins. They WILL squeeze every atom of air from a space to carry more toilet brushes they stole from the gas station.
One of my favorite lair actions in 5e is from Orcus, demon lord of Undeath. He has an ability to summon 500 hp worth of undead to his lair. These things only have 80 hp, so if you meet Orcus, he can snap his fingers and gets 6 of these.
Since it's a summoning, I can imagine how many adventurers in ancient crypts elsewhere in the multiverse are confused when the demilich who just instagibbed their wizard suddenly vanishes into thin air.
@@Ryu1ify The skull just spends 13 seconds screaming and saying NO. The wizard shrivels up to the size of a dried prune and dies. Suddenly there is a ringing sound echoing the tomb and the skull tilts slightly, "Yeah boss? Yeah, yeah ... right now? I've got an unfinished project on my desk with a close deadline, can I get two minutes? Okay, okay, let me have six seconds to get someone to cover for me and I'll be right over." The skull vanishes, and six seconds later a different skull appears in the same spot, "Frank gave me a quick rundown, you three the remaining interlopers? Okay, let's get this wrapped up, I've got some ghouls scheduled to bring me tribute in half an hour. Sorry for the inconvenience."
I'm not sure if this is in the 2024 demilich, but the 2014 Demilich also has a little thing called "Avoidance," which works like evasion, but for ALL saving throws. So, the Demilich didn't even take damage from that sunbeam lmao
Technically, the new Conjure Celestial, despite still being a conjuration spell, doesn't summon any creature. It's just a supercharged Moonbeam that asks you to pretend that it looks like a celestial.
Honestly hate it. I am letting Players keep some Legacy spells cause when it says Conjure CELESTIAL, it should summon one. Not a pretend-it's-one spell.
@@Grinnar take some things, monks, bards and fighters are freaking awesome in 5.5, and no one is pointing you with a gun for using them in a 5e campaign (and the freaking weapon masteries)
That's how we found a demilich in our campaignn. We thought it was a flameskull like the ones we fought at the beginning of a dungeon. Then a necromancer NPC said "Oh no...".
A wonderful simulation of D&D 5.24! A quick Um, Actually: Demiliches can scream, but they have forgotten all the languages they know. But there's one in Turn of Fortune's Wheel that talks, so that detail can't be terribly important.
@@Derkosson Would you like to know the best part of being a DM? *whispers in your ear* We can choose to ignore things like that and nobody can tell us it's wrong.
@ig100magnaguard This isn't a demilich. This is a dimelich. Basically the same thing as a demilich, except it knows languages. Also it has a legendary action that makes one creature of its choice grow extra long eyelids and a massive underbite at the start of combat, make sure to mark that down on your character sheet, this is a permenant effect.
Honestly? If I knew it was a demilich, I'd bring a net, an eversmoking bottle and a silence spell. It has a -5 to strength checks, and can't use a legendary resistance on the check to escape the net or a grapple. Eversmoking bottle produces smoke, not darkness, rendering truesight useless. Now it can't use life drain, antimagic, vile curse or the no-healing lair action. And a silence spell, which prevents the howl from working. It can't turn this off with antimagic because of the eversmoking bottle preventing it from seeing. Normally you'd be at disadvantage to hit it at this point given the fact he's heavily obscured. However, he's also restrained, giving everyone a flat roll to hit. Even better if you have someone with blindsight, like a rogue who can do fat dpr with advantage. At this point all it can do is spam energy drain for about 10 damage as a legendary action once per round, and try to knock everyone prone as a lair action every other round (which doesn't help it escape the net or the grapple). One uncommon magic item, one level 2 spell, and a 1gp net is pretty economical for totally undermining a CR18 undead party killer. If your DM is super stingy with magic items, bring fog cloud instead of the eversmoking bottle.
The only reason my players survived their first demilich fight was the fact that the temporary bard PC I gave one of them until we could introduce his real character was secretly an adult silver dragon in disguise. When he failed his save and dropped to 0 hp, he reverted to dragon form and saved the group from what otherwise would have been a tpk. Not how I had planned that particular reveal, but it was quite memorable
Key to beating a demilitch: grapple. Just get a barbarian, likely they will survive that Howl, then just grapple them. Demiliches don’t have the Athletics skill and are -5 to Strength rolls. Also out of all the condition immunities a demilich has grappled isn’t one of them. An Aasimar barbarian is best because they are resistant to necrotic and can inflict radiant damage. Just have the Aasimar barbarian give the demilich radiant noogies until it dies.
I can’t wait for some forgotten paragraph to suddenly say that the Demilich can only die with its permission so it can go *”No”* and literally be invincible
@@danolantern6030 It can't, he can deny the grapple with the legendary resistance, but once he runs out of them, you can grapple him and store in your bag of holding... I know it's metagaming but is not like the game is that balanced anyway
You know for a fact that if the IRS existed in the FR they would have a department of Necromancy Wizards just sitting around for this exact scenario. The second they heard "Demilich" and "Back Taxes" the entire office of level 14 Wizards and their level 14 Simulacrums would start falling over each other to ransack his lair first.
I now imagine demilich less like a monster and more of a cursed relic that will melt anyone who approaches and/or touches it. Like a necromantic nuclear plant core.
Not to mention that the Demilich has an Evasion like featrue that lets them take half/no damage form all types of saves. They also have resistance to Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing damage made with magical weapons. Another funny thing they can do is target the Martial of the Group with the antimagic field, which makes their weapon non magical, and thus unable to harm the Demilich. And while they are immune against most conditions, they can be blinded which disables a lot of their features and is on of their greatest weaknesses.
You are bringing me fond memories of the time that I cast fog cloud in a room full of beholder zombies and completely rendered them harmless. The DM's jaw hit the floor because I don't think he thought through using floating eyeball monsters against a Tempest Cleric. 😂
So many Kingmaker players just had PTSD flashbacks. Theres a spot early in the game where you can get a free long rest that spawns a demilich ontop of your heads midway thru the rest.
Will O Wisp is not quite the same thing as a Demi-Lich, but given that it's a CR 6 monster with Sorcerer class levels against a party that is most likely only level 3 or 4, yeah that's a wipe for most parties. They also are immune to all spells and SLAs that allow for spell resistance except for magic missile (sure) and maze. Why maze? Weakness to specifically the *maze* spell might be the single most hyper specific weakness I've seen in PF1e. It's also typically an 8th level spell and only targets a single creature, so if this CR 6 monster gets you to blow an 8th level spell slot on it and only it, I'mma call that a W for the monster.
@@dargaronsoftsong3193 Don't worry, surely you have the incredible maze spell prepared for precisely this situation! (yes I know there are a handful of damaging spells that don't allow for spell resistance like stone call, I just can't get over the maze thing)
Fought a demilich at level 9, used silence, wall of light and played baseball with the skull punting it into the wall each turn while it constantly got blasted
and this fine creature can be found in a FALSE treasure room in a dungeon filled with instant death, so IF you survived up until finding the "treasure" room you probably won't make it out..... [I loved dying in this classic dungeon too lol] {{and it is in my campaign too}}
Funny you mentioned a beholder. One of my players convinced a beholder to let him cast a spell on it. Yes he watched that video. He cast gaseous form on it, preventing it from making attacks. Attacks. SPECIFICALLY. Beholders have one attack and it’s a bite. Their rays and most of their spells rely on saving throws. It became an indestructible cloud of gas shooting lasers, casting spells, and invoking its lair actions on a party that was not only figuratively but now LITERALLY powerless to stop or harm it in any way. He never again pulled shit he saw in a TH-cam short without asking me how it would work.
@@soulglitcher it is. He could have. He didn’t. I THINK he forgot it was concentration. I don’t remember fully, this is a story from a few years ago, we just bring it up sometimes
@@Kirholm12 literally the only part I got wrong is the spellcasting. I JUST double checked. And beholders don’t HAVE spells, so it’s irrelevant. This is a story from like 3 years ago, get outa my ass about it.
Thankyou for reminding me that i absolutely hate Official Demilitches and have rewritten them to be like, an actual fair fight for my party like four times already.
☝🤓My current issues with this video: (Not important: Regional effects are optional) Throwing 3 lvl 14 characters against a CR 18 monster is a deadly encounter. the players are expecting an extremely difficult encounter they might not walk away from if they're knowingly attacking a demilich. Round 1: Demilich only uses 1 of 3 lair actions instead of 2 of 3? Sorcerer has Antimagic field on him, so he's not affected by Howl since its a magical effect. Fighters have proficiency in CON Saves, and Indomitable would give him advantage if he failed the first roll. Creatures dropping to 0 Hitpoints from non-damage would be unconscious making death saves rather than instantly dead. Sorcerer still has Antimagic field, and the draconic wings are created rather than always present on the body which would imply a magical creation rather than a physical feature, so no flying for Shia boy until the field expires. Also, it would have been better for the sorcerer to use the help action than deal 0 damage on a hit (immunity to nonmagical damage; I doubt the sorcerer has a magic dagger) Disadvantage doesn't stack, but I understand why he'd try to kill the seemingly weaker target first anyways Round 2: Fighter has 2 uses of indomitable by default, probably used one to avoid the howl. Round 3: Demilich only uses 1 of 3 lair actions instead of 2 of 3? If cleric is using '24 version of spiritual weapon, why throw away the current casting of sunbeam? If cleric is using '14 version of spiritual weapon, she just straight up ignored her current action lol While the fighter might not have indomitable anymore (idk what happens in this parallel universe), he does still have CON proficiency, but he does also still have disadvantage. regardless, it would have been best for the cleric to survive since the lair action triggers only half of the time, so the cleric could probably heal the adventurers on round 4. Sorcerers have access to the Etherealness spell (Border ethereal is partially on the material plane, so it doesn't count as leaving the dungeon) at lvl 14, and while demilichs have truesight 120ft, they cant follow him into the ethereal plane. But he can give one hell of a menacing stare. Idk what the sorcerer would do past this point, but he does have 1 long rest he can take before continuing the battle.
upon seeing the new version of conjure celestial I was like "that's still a cool spell, even if it's nothing like what it's name would suggest" and then I realized that the sentient orbital laser that can heal allies and harm enemies requires YOU to see targets within it to have any effect and immediately took it back
its a Ranger subclass. main feature is expending a spell slot to summon swarms of rats equal to the level of the spell slot expended. great for summoning extra bodies to tank hits as the swarms have resistance to bludgeoning piercing and slashing damage like all swarms
I'm currently playing a campaign of Tomb of Annihilation (don't give spoilers) in Pathfinder 2e at, and we were in the Tomb of Horrors (only adapted very slightly for pathfinder, still as difficult as ever) at levels 1-3. We ran into Acererak. It took us only one round after talking with the feller to get out of there. In that single round the casualty count went up from 33% to 66% (Snrb our accountant barbarian goblin died. I Boblina, formerly Boblin, the alchemist medical goblin, died previously from a coronation mishap, in a similar manner to how I got genderswapped, namely lack of orphans to test on. Though luckily I got better. If by better you mean a ghost, tied to ashes which is now mud in a jar). We had to spend an entire wish we found in a corner on ghe floor to bring him back to life (apparently was in the book, according to my DM he didn't add this). But honestly? Massive success. We braved the Tomb of Horrors, including an encounter with the big skull himself, and got away with a whopping 33% survival rate at level 1-3!
Demiliches were so much more powerful in 3.5e. They're immune to all spells except shatter, dispel evil, and holy smite. They had 10th level spells, which they could use for metamagic. They had a lot of other immunities too. They have 8 gems that could instantly trap someone's soul on a failed save, which is an instant death and you have to destroy the gem in 24 hours if you even want to resurrect the person, but even if you pass the save, you gain negative levels. They can cause permanent paralysis on a touch. And they could have Epic Level spells, which were basically higher than level 9 spells.
@@MayHuggerthey were for Epic Level parties, where you can get +6 and above weapons, get feats that let you automatically kill enemies on a critical hit if they fail a saving throw, feats that let you bypass damage reduction, feats that automatically quicken spells to let you cast two spells per round, metamagic feats that combine empower and maximize and increase the maximum damage dies, and epic level spells.
@@MayHugger Except you can. Penetrating damage reduction is very effective against Demilich since they only have 140 hp. I pointed out three spells the Demilich is not immune to. A Holy Smite with the Intensify Metamagic feat will do 80 damage to the Demilich if it fails the save. The higher levels for metamagic also lets you use metamagic on buffs, like spells that increase your saving throws or give you immunity to negative levels or paralysis, protecting you against the Demilich's instant kill powers. There are also tons of things you can do with Epic Spells. You can summon powerful creatures like Adult Dragons to fight for you. You can cast a spell that absorbs physical damage and let you release it back as physical damage that bypasses spell resistance and immunity. There's a contingency spell that's like a super charged Sanctuary, it can be triggered by high damage or instant death effect, making the character immune to everything for 1 round, but also makes them unable to act for that round. Only the kill on critical feat is useless against the Demilich. There are also a lot of other Epic Level feats and abilities that are very useful against Demiliches. There are feats that lets you gain the benefit from wearing extra magical items, like getting the effects from wearing three magical rings. There's a feat that lets you shoot anything in your sight without suffering range penalties, which would basically let you hit a Demilich outside the range of their most powerful abilities. Shapeshifting classes have feats that let them shift into dragons, magical beasts, aberrations, as well as feats that allow them to shift into colossal size creatures.
I mean after the first howl at level 14 the fighter at least has both proficiency in Con saves, and Indomitable, plus all he needs to pass a DC 15 save if a +4 AS in Con which is very reasonable on a fighter of that level (6 (roll) + 5 (prof) + 4 (mod) = 15). The Sorcerer is in a similar situation needing a +3 to Con to save, but still doable on a sorcerer. The cleric doesn’t have the Con prof, so can’t just freely make the save, but I’ve also not brought in any save improving magic items, putting on a Death Ward, or even having the Silence spell on hand preemptively. I mean yeah the antimagic field would negate most of those later ones, but in this hypothetical its only on the sorcerer, and we’ve established they can still survive with at least a 16 in Con. This is my passionate rant about how a DC 15 saving throw is actually pretty bad at high levels, and a well prepared party may not even notice it.
Hell I can go further with Math! This Battlemaster fighter is level 14 with 139 HP, which isn’t a standard hp increase number but is sandwiched between the average values of a level 14 Fighter with either a +3 or +4 in Con (130 and 144, respectively). So we know they were at worst 1 off and should’ve rolled indomitable, or at best passed even after rolling a 6. I suppose there’s no way to prove this isn’t a +2/+1 Con fighter who took Tough as a feat, but at that point we’re getting deep in the sauce and also you can judge a fighter who had 5 ASI increases and every time looked at 14/12 Con and said ‘good enough!’
@@Finalplayer14 possibly; the one minute duration is the main challenge there, and you can’t use the spell in reaction to a saving throw. There’s other reasons why it may not be up such as needing concentration elsewhere, not having the spell prepared, etc. I mention death ward because its a non concentration spell that could be applied to every character and lasts for 8 hours, so there’s really no reason to not use it when heading into a dangerous area.
@@fridaynightpizza7158 Demiliches have this "Avoidance. If the demilich is subjected to an effect that allows it to make a saving throw to take only half damage, it instead takes no damage if it succeeds on the saving throw, and only half damage if it fails."
Personally, as a DM, I home brew the Howl ability so it’s not fail and die. I basically make it into either a necrotic or psychic fireball. Usually I roll a d20 and choose even or odd before the fight starts. Then when it uses this ability it works much like fireball except with different saving throws (Con for necrotic and Wis or Int for psychic). Depending on the party level and composition it does between 8 & 10d6 damage on a fail, and half of that on a success. I also run a house rule that evasion doesn’t work against psychic damage since it targets the mind directly. I find demilich fights are much better this way. I am very much against fail a saving throw and instantly lose your high level character that you’ve played for a long time.
4:27 How can the fighter have rolled a 6? They have con save prof, and considering their hp, they should have around a +7 at minimum, more likely a +8 or +9 or so to con saves. Plus indomitable means he can reroll the save.
It’s absolutely not CR 18, but it’s definitely stronger than hit points and damage numbers would lead you to believe. I love this thing to pieces. Thank you for the fun combat, Logan. No one simulates these things like you do.
Demiliches in Baldur's Gate 2 are also silly as hell. Either you have serious fire power, like for example Karsomir +5 weapon, which is two-handed paladin sword which you get from defeating a freaking Red Dragon, and a scroll of protection against magic, which are quite rare and pricy, you dont even bother fighting a demilich. Becouse with all his Death Magics and screaming at you he has the Imprisonment spell, which is basically "I win" spell. Becouse instead something like Maze, if character is hit by that he is stucked for good, unless you cast "Freedom" spell. And if he hit the main character with that it is game over. Like this one is so effective it overshadows any other fancy spells and skills Demilich has.
Literally was just talking about a Demi Lich yesterday, was in a prior 2nd edition game. Killed my character, and another character in the same round. Ahhhh, memories.
I ran a pretty cool one-shot I found online for my friends a few years ago. The final boss was a Demilich and everybody died without making a single action due to the DL rolling high Initiative and using Howl. Kind of a banger.
![Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous [EP 3] - Oh, Water Elemental..](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YyiY88v2DXI/mqdefault.jpg)
“All the skull has done is scream and say *NO* for the last 13 seconds”
- me when I also encounter the IRS
I imagine it's less effective when you do it
@@Damianweibler Unfortunately my screaming does not yet cause instant death, I am working on it tho
The only reason to fear the IRS is if you are actively lying about a business you own.
@@beholderborn2561 You need to talk with a two-year old girl. They know the true secrets of screaming.
Jesus Christ loves you
When you're so powerful you accidentally kill the adventurers before anybody has a chance to say anything
Then the lich says, in his Skeletor voice (obviously) "I hate it when this happens! Now I'm bored again!"
Imagine everyone walking into the tomb and most of them dying because they aren't named characters.
When the boss monster is so done with everybody's crap, that he can't even muster up the energy to collect people's souls to sustain himself.
Demilich: Who are you
Party: We're from the IRS
Demilich: *Screams in Tax evasion*
Party: *Dies in no more than 30 secs*
The demilich had a chance to say something.
It said *NO.*
You mixed up the order of the sorcerer and cleric. Unwatchable, reported, banned, Fed to the floating skull of my grandfather in the attic.
Beat me to it
@@alisonpurser4457 You also have a floating skull for a grandfather?
I knew I fucked up real real bad somehow
@@sunlightsage2982 You ever hear of Carmine, the Bowler?
My 3mo baby is called Lilith, guess she's a Cleric/Sorceror now :D
On their turn, the beginning riff of "bad to the bone" always plays
thats a free lair action
That's the first thing any Lich does upon establishing their lair
"Alexa, if there's an intruder, play Bad to the Bones and send the Necrodancer to greet them"
THE SKELETON APPEARs
The riff plays, the Demilich cackles, 3 adventurers drop dead.
That moment when the old skelly man is impossible to deal with without prep even when he's lost 4/5ths of himself in both body and mind to basically magic Alzheimer's
the gem eyes are there spesifically to prevent the magic alzheimers
@@filipthunell8631 well, they didn't do much lol
@@NertNeverlander Skellibro got the placebo gems
@@BierBart12he got those shit coloured glass cut to look like gems in his eyes because he never held a real gem
@@filipthunell8631 Is that what the new lore is? Cuz the old lore before 5e wasn't that they were starving liches, it was that they were super-liches who had made multiple phylacteries, that being what the gem eyes and teeth are
The first mistake when fighting any kind of lich is to not do any knowledge checks on what it can do. The second is to not be buffed before the fight.
Or just set traps of your own. If it lives underground in a cave or tomb, plant explosives to seal it in or collapse the tomb on top of it, you can always just excavate the treasure later from the rubble. Or if you know you're going to be fighting a powerful and horrifying monster, load up on some heavy weapons, like siege engines... Even a lich cannot survive a fifty-pound rock flying at it at terminal velocity. Or go and make a deal with some powerful creature that is opposed to "evil" creatures, such as a good-aligned dragon or celestial.
To quote an appropriate game:
"Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer."
It’s also a mistake not to bring a paladin.
the third is a lack of imagination
the demilich basically handed them the win with that antimagic field the party just couldn't work out how to capitalize on that
the fear and lair effects are magical so the sorcerer who was encased in an antimagic fiend that moves with her could have walked right up to the demilich and grappled it resulting in it being in her space and thus the field making unable to use any of its magical abilities, from there she walks it over to the fighter who then pounds it into dust over 3 rounds.
As a low to mid level wizard, I had to distract and (to a degree) fight a Demilich by myself once. Why? Because more than half the party decided it would be better to skulk around the various hallways looking for loot rather than come help their distressed friend who was desperately, loudly trying to stall for time and keep the Lich entertained in the vain hope his friends would stop sifting through bookshelves and come save him...
All things considered, I wish we had it recorded. It would have been quite funny. 😅
It's actually funny that the 2nd level spell Silence can actually deny the one hit ko lich howl
The players gotta know that before hand though in game because any good DM wouldn't let them meta game and just have it without reason.
@@deltagearadvanced5140 yeah, but there are a couple abjurative builds that use it + grapple to mess with spellcasters. It'd be my go to against a floating magic skull! Even though the demilich doesn't actually cast spells!
@@deltagearadvanced5140 Who would go on a hunt for a powerful magic user and not pack Silence?
@@milagrosgutierrezmartin9506only parties lacking spellcasters
@@deltagearadvanced5140 youre fighting a magic skull. I think its pr easy to assume a spell that denies spell casting would be useful
Party:"Die foul Demi lich"
Demi Lich:"No u"
Party:"AUGGHHH"
Had a lvl 18 encounter against 1 lich and 4 demilichs. Everyone but me thought the lich was prime target. I privately told the dm what they could do and he paled just a little and quietly adjusted the encounter.
Bro what happened?! Did they mistake Demiliches for Flameskulls or something?
@@rkruzel8169 They probably thought "Demilich" meant "mini-lich" like how a demigod is a mini-god
@@jacksonl.2201 Yep, demi-lich sounds like a lesser lich, but in terms of threat level, it's more akin to a lich having ascended to demi-god status...
He *WHAT?!*
Did I mention that we also fought an ancient dragon earlier in the day? That would have showed up in that same encounter if we had let it escape.
My favorite just kills you monster is the Swarm of Rotgrubs. +0 to hit, but if you fail to either burn it off or cast lesser restoration, the thing burrows into your heart. Then you are just dead. I let my players if they are feeling panicked enough attempt a little impromptu surgery to cut it out for an extra turn. Funny shit.
Thats just straight up something out of the Magnus Archives
@@Hollowed0ut First Edition D&D, base game. Rot grubs were commonplace. It was brutal.
@Hollowed0ut
Nah. Worse. The Infested has the decency of keeping you alive if you embrace it, or makes it pretty easy to avoid unless you're dealing with Worm Queen. These Lil pricks can bite your finger and functionally tekeport to your heart.
the moral of the story is we gotta properly fund the irs so they have the resources to collect from rich tax-dodging old guys
But it so much easier to squeeze the common rabble to just above starvation by hiring goblinoid agents. 😈
Nooooooooooooooo, bad idea.
they tried that, they just hired lobbyists to change laws so the IRS couldn't go after them.
Lol legal loopholes from the politicians they pay prevents that. More agents is for the middle class and only them.
+1
"And some strong characters" -puts three level 14 characters up against a CR 18 threat thats also in its lair
The pile of skulls to disguise a demilich is actually so funny 😂
Even funnier, a pile of skulls that is actually ALL demiliches.
@@bunnywaffles898 An entire evil wizard cabal that said "Eh, let's all become demiliches" would be a pretty funny, like... level 26 encounter.
They're definitely a weird creature and i've never used one, specifically for all the reasons you mentioned, but ngl that quest was kinda fun and now i wanna make a campaign where my party are just irs agents going around investigating monsters for tax fraud.
They show up to a dragons lair and its put tarps and crap over all its piles of gold and claims its income is solely from a 1 acre "farm" with dead grass on it
@@HankLoremonger ...sir we're still going to need to take your bank statements and since you're filing under schedule c as "self-employed" we'll also need receipts, invoices, and other evidence of transactions. Our records also indicate that you haven't filed a proper 1099 or w2 form in...ever.
And then the party encounters a red dragon in his human form frantically throwing his wealth into bags labeled "FOR THE IRS" because he's actually scared of them.
@@Oll1000 To quote the joker "I'm crazy enough to take on Batman, but the IRS!? NO THANK YOU!"
Be a necromaner and use your ability to enslave a shadow. Have your controlled shadow attack the demilich. If the attack hits, since the Demilich has a strength of 1, they instantly die.
When the game was detailed enough to include mechanics for negative/positive energy effects (back in 3.5e) most powerful undead were immune to negative energy attacks. As DM I would NOT allow it.
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket as well as immunity to death effects and ability damage so yea, tis a no go for me
@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket Undead were healed by negative energy and damaged by positive energy. Demiliches also had Epic Level spells, which were basically higher than level 9 spells.
Torn between DM allowing a shadow to actually drain a demilich and the old standby that a shadow is just about the most dangerous thing any low-mid-high lv player can get control of a la 3.5
OK so the big problem is that shadows use a life draining ability that transform a creature into a dead pile of nothing, but the demilich is still a lich so it doesn't care about any life ability so as it can not "die" I would argue an effect requiring the target to die will a 100% not work. but still you got some good problem-solving in you keep it up
Welcome to the Tomb of Horrors. Your first mistake was entering the Tomb of Horrors. Also, have some necrotic damage. Lmao.
It's like the name is descriptive of what's inside.
Actually, entering the Tomb of Horrors is a gauntlet itself, and there are two false entrances that result in a Rocks Fall ending if you try to open the doors.
Genuinely laughing like a hillbilly at the "no" sound effect
This is why you should just start the combat by putting a magic crown on the demilich, then use a magic rod to disintegrate them.
Only one rod / crown combo will do the trick, and who wants to go down and get those?
exactly!
NO! I will not get through the Tomb of Horrors, only for doing this to every Demilich I come across! It'll cost my sanity! Let me fight Vecna, Demogorgon, Szass Tam or Daurgothoth, but nothing in the Realms will convince me to enter one of Acererak's Dungeons ever again!
Except... I'll manage to get three Wishes...
@@XPtoLevel3JAcOB JUMPSCARE
@@XPtoLevel3 they actually got bro to respond 💀
"The lair misses its turn, cause it can do that" took me out
This is how you know DND CR is a joke.
The Demilich is more dangerous than a regular lich.
Demilich was a higher cr in 3.5e
No one knows how cr works but its better than nothing
CR in 5e is BS wak
heroes feast, death ward, aura of life, then someone in the party nova's the demi-lich. its harder to pull of any easy combos like this against a regular lich since he has so many counters with his spellcasting.
Actually, acording to the lore, a demilich is the upgraded form of a lich, so it's accurate
I mean any monster is hella dangerous if you have the worst party possible to fight it. There's a reason those "useless" martials exist in a proper party someone is going to have remove curse, generally if you have an antimagic field on you your going to dash away not throw a dagger or w/e the sorcerer did most abilities have a 60ft range and wouldn't ya know it a lot of the demiliches abilities have that same issue lol (Which makes another point "What if my players only do stupid actions" is a great way to make even a wolf pack sound OP) Fighters with proper magic items to fight something at this point is going to manage just fine, fear is such a non issue as so many powers and items help with fear, disadvantage is usually figuring out a way to overcome it by getting an advantage through a magic effect or other effect.
Demiliches do what they set out to do they kill a party of adventurers who rely to heavily on raw spellcasting magic and have the tatics of a fruit fly like the "mock party" here has lol.
Also to add it has one of the worst speeds a 30ft hover, meaning in a proper tatical party with a proper martial to keep its worst abilities busy as a sort of body sponge you can easily screw this guy up at a range.
I was hoping the demilich would say, "I don't care who the IRS sends I'm not paying taxes!" Dan *MUST* live on.
Demilich is basically DM saying fuck your builds, roll new chracters, but in a way that gives you a ray of hope and fairness. We all know Demilich, Taarrasque and Aboleths are unholy trio of you pissed DM while adhering to MM.
Well, more like Demilich, Aboleth, and 30 Bodaks on some wild, insane Minecraft minecart rollercoaster.
Tarrasques are pretty easy to cheese unless New D&D changed it.
The "No!" is the perfect sound effect for LR
I run Demiliches like they just woke up from the most epic nap.
Starts off easy with the Demilich just trying to remove the annoyances then waking up more and more getting harder.
Reminds me of the scene from TW3 when Geralt finds a sleeping vampire.
"Is it 1358 yet?"
"No."
"Then fuck off."
9:45 I burp back
What's your spell DC?
Assuming everyone had a 50% chance of succeeding on the howl, it has a 1/8 chance of taking out everyone, 1/2 chance of taking out at least 2 people, and 7/8 chance of taking out at least one person. That's a scary high chance of "save or tpk"
"Reduce to 0 hit points" isn't dead in 5e though. It's nothing a little healing word or healing word, mass can't at least get them back into the fight from. And since the Demilich rarely does actual damage, only having like 4hp after the fact doesn't really hurt your odds all that much.
@@Sotanaht01 can't heal if everyone goes down or if it just decides no one gets to heal anymore
@@mgb360 Technically the demilich can also choose to capture everyone, so the party doesn't HAVE to die if they drop. They can then plan an escape and return later, now with the knowledge of what to do properly.
@@mgb360 True, but, by the time a party is going to take on a demilich, they should have:
1: the ability to prepare.
2: casters with advantage on their con saves.
3: numerous consumables to blow on tough fights.
Pretending that a high level party doesn't have access to options that will make the fight easier is silly, imo.
A party of 3 level 14 PC’s against a CR 18 Demilich, in its lair, let alone with a buddy. A party which knew where they were going, with guides to potentially ask questions of who might know more, and who cast zero precombat spells. Heroes Feast anyone?
Of course this was a slaughter lol
Another great video, had me laughing the whole time
Yeah seriously the level 14 cleric
Heroes feast...
Silence (not precast but like so good here)
Death Ward
Bless
any of these would have helped massively
Actual beeswax could have worked ignoring spells
I mean they're still probably getting mulched but at least it wouldn't be _as_ one-sided.
@@Doc_Fun
The entire fight shouldn’t happen in anyone’s game in the first place lol the party can’t beat a CR 18 when their effective CR is below 14. Missing the recon, planning, precasting, etc. was just icing on an already unbeatable cake
@@sven3428 It is more than possible for 3 level 14's to no prep a cr 18 it depends on a lot of factors like if this were against ancient deep dragon or an Archiac this was winnable (not trival or even like an encounter I would actually throw at them but plausable)... though this one punches a good bit above it's weight class due to the instant down (not kill like he says in the video). Also it being in's layer and no prep was a big reason this was beatdown.
I can't believe Shia let his party get divided
"Just do it!"
Remember Kids:
Orcus can summon 500 hit points worth of Undead
The Demilich has 80 hit points
(thats 6 Skulls a day, plus change)
do with this information what you want
he'd probably run out of them before the end of the week
I am losing my fucking mind at a party of adventurers being sent by the IRS
In my early days as a DM (a year ago) I had my party fight a demilich. Party was lvl 8 and was gonna gang up on it. The Demilich ended three of them, but got smited to oblivion by the Paladin.
This monster is the Paladin check. If your party has a paladin, they can take it out at level 6. If they don't, its a near TPK until high levels. That +5 to all saves aura is broken and does not need to exist.
@@archmagemc3561 The many awful things failing a save can do is more broken and part of why Paladins and their auras are the heroes we need and deserve. Also I feel like a Paladin with +5 CHA at 6th level is a little wack
@@OccasionalGoof Entirely correct, saving throws are dumb in 5e and pally is the patch note to try to deal with it. It works sometimes.
@@Medul759 It's fucking *crazy* that a 20th level Barbarian is generally expected to have the same Wisdom save bonus as a 1st level Barbarian, despite the DCs he's facing having increased many times. I have no idea how that's the design they ended up with.
@@jhinpotion9230 I know how. They're bad at their job.
Little known fact, you can use legendary resistance to get out of paying taxes.
I've had the idea of have a demi lich chill inside a bag of holding the party finds in a tomb. if the check the bag they never find it but if they turn it inside out there's a surprise.
Devilish. Give them heavy (but easy to count weight) valuable things to put in the bag so you can tell them "it won't fit", they can do the math and find that there's like, two and a half pounds of unaccounted weight consumption blocking the last 10 pounds of capacity or something. They'll turn it out.
@@Yesnaught I don't think anyone is going to bother investigating such a minor inconvenience unless you specifically say something like "It seems there's something else in the bag that you didn't put in." Certainly a fun idea though.
@@Sam_Graves
Oh, don't underestimate loot goblins. They WILL squeeze every atom of air from a space to carry more toilet brushes they stole from the gas station.
One of my favorite lair actions in 5e is from Orcus, demon lord of Undeath. He has an ability to summon 500 hp worth of undead to his lair.
These things only have 80 hp, so if you meet Orcus, he can snap his fingers and gets 6 of these.
NOO GOD PLEASE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Since it's a summoning, I can imagine how many adventurers in ancient crypts elsewhere in the multiverse are confused when the demilich who just instagibbed their wizard suddenly vanishes into thin air.
@@Ryu1ify
Since it's summoning out of their lair...
Can the Demilich just say NO
@@Ryu1ify The skull just spends 13 seconds screaming and saying NO. The wizard shrivels up to the size of a dried prune and dies. Suddenly there is a ringing sound echoing the tomb and the skull tilts slightly, "Yeah boss? Yeah, yeah ... right now? I've got an unfinished project on my desk with a close deadline, can I get two minutes? Okay, okay, let me have six seconds to get someone to cover for me and I'll be right over." The skull vanishes, and six seconds later a different skull appears in the same spot, "Frank gave me a quick rundown, you three the remaining interlopers? Okay, let's get this wrapped up, I've got some ghouls scheduled to bring me tribute in half an hour. Sorry for the inconvenience."
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 I think Orcus can just give his own NO to the Demilitch's NO.
When your boss says "My office, now." You don't just ignore him.
I'm not sure if this is in the 2024 demilich, but the 2014 Demilich also has a little thing called "Avoidance," which works like evasion, but for ALL saving throws. So, the Demilich didn't even take damage from that sunbeam lmao
he mentioned it not taking any damage until the fighter hit it, which was after the sunbeam save, so it probably still has that.
Technically, the new Conjure Celestial, despite still being a conjuration spell, doesn't summon any creature. It's just a supercharged Moonbeam that asks you to pretend that it looks like a celestial.
Honestly hate it. I am letting Players keep some Legacy spells cause when it says Conjure CELESTIAL, it should summon one. Not a pretend-it's-one spell.
The new summoning spells aren't summons at all. Playing a summoner in 5e was hard, but now it's actually just impossible!
WTF that fuckin sucks
Guess I'm just gonna stick with pre-2024e.
@@Grinnar take some things, monks, bards and fighters are freaking awesome in 5.5, and no one is pointing you with a gun for using them in a 5e campaign (and the freaking weapon masteries)
I love adding Flameskulls to a Demilich fight because it lures everyone into thinking its only Flameskulls.
That's how we found a demilich in our campaignn. We thought it was a flameskull like the ones we fought at the beginning of a dungeon. Then a necromancer NPC said "Oh no...".
Ah, yes, because DMs aren't dicks enough.
The IRS sending a mercenaries team to raids someone tombs for tax evasion seem pretty accurate.
A wonderful simulation of D&D 5.24! A quick Um, Actually: Demiliches can scream, but they have forgotten all the languages they know. But there's one in Turn of Fortune's Wheel that talks, so that detail can't be terribly important.
I'd say forgetting languages doesn't mean they can't relearn them, so it's fine either way.
@@Derkosson Would you like to know the best part of being a DM?
*whispers in your ear*
We can choose to ignore things like that and nobody can tell us it's wrong.
@@InsanoRider777 Somebody actually can. Remember, they're playing willingly.
@ig100magnaguard
This isn't a demilich. This is a dimelich. Basically the same thing as a demilich, except it knows languages. Also it has a legendary action that makes one creature of its choice grow extra long eyelids and a massive underbite at the start of combat, make sure to mark that down on your character sheet, this is a permenant effect.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Nice idea, but i probably will make it as a berserk symbol or something alike to be a memento from the fight.
"Blanched Lilith" had me in stitches.
Honestly? If I knew it was a demilich, I'd bring a net, an eversmoking bottle and a silence spell.
It has a -5 to strength checks, and can't use a legendary resistance on the check to escape the net or a grapple.
Eversmoking bottle produces smoke, not darkness, rendering truesight useless. Now it can't use life drain, antimagic, vile curse or the no-healing lair action.
And a silence spell, which prevents the howl from working. It can't turn this off with antimagic because of the eversmoking bottle preventing it from seeing.
Normally you'd be at disadvantage to hit it at this point given the fact he's heavily obscured. However, he's also restrained, giving everyone a flat roll to hit. Even better if you have someone with blindsight, like a rogue who can do fat dpr with advantage.
At this point all it can do is spam energy drain for about 10 damage as a legendary action once per round, and try to knock everyone prone as a lair action every other round (which doesn't help it escape the net or the grapple).
One uncommon magic item, one level 2 spell, and a 1gp net is pretty economical for totally undermining a CR18 undead party killer. If your DM is super stingy with magic items, bring fog cloud instead of the eversmoking bottle.
I will say, you sent 3 lvl 14 dudes against a CR 18 monester, this is an appropriate amount of get f*cked XD
You do realise that demilich in their lair accompanied by a flame skull is double deadly threat for the party of 3 lvl 14 adventurers?
The only reason my players survived their first demilich fight was the fact that the temporary bard PC I gave one of them until we could introduce his real character was secretly an adult silver dragon in disguise. When he failed his save and dropped to 0 hp, he reverted to dragon form and saved the group from what otherwise would have been a tpk. Not how I had planned that particular reveal, but it was quite memorable
Party: "Wait, why did the boss music change?"
Demilich: " Why isn't my boss music playing anymore?"
Silver Dragon Bard: "omlette du fromage~"
I'd only throw a demilich at the party if there was a victory condition outside "fight the thing".
Key to beating a demilitch: grapple. Just get a barbarian, likely they will survive that Howl, then just grapple them. Demiliches don’t have the Athletics skill and are -5 to Strength rolls. Also out of all the condition immunities a demilich has grappled isn’t one of them. An Aasimar barbarian is best because they are resistant to necrotic and can inflict radiant damage. Just have the Aasimar barbarian give the demilich radiant noogies until it dies.
I can’t wait for some forgotten paragraph to suddenly say that the Demilich can only die with its permission so it can go *”No”* and literally be invincible
@@danolantern6030 It can't, he can deny the grapple with the legendary resistance, but once he runs out of them, you can grapple him and store in your bag of holding... I know it's metagaming but is not like the game is that balanced anyway
Demilich with a Joe Pesci accent: “what, you think I’m funny?”
Acererak and his "Tomb of very fun time!". Trully an unforgettable tale!
My favorite part of the "Tomb of Annihilation" is when the IRS tries to make Acererak pay his taxes.
@@isaactaylor8086 Oh I was actually talking about the original "Tomb of Horrors". That one was one biiiig bullshit trip
“We’re from the IRS.”
Oh, then they shouldn’t have taken the necrotic damage when entering the tomb.
You know for a fact that if the IRS existed in the FR they would have a department of Necromancy Wizards just sitting around for this exact scenario. The second they heard "Demilich" and "Back Taxes" the entire office of level 14 Wizards and their level 14 Simulacrums would start falling over each other to ransack his lair first.
Imagine failing a con save as a fighter
Ha-ha indomitable goes "NO"!
Fighting a demilich is the same as playing a game of magic against that one opponent that starts every turn with "Ok, so..."
I haven’t watched it yet but let’s get that algorithm going!
algorithm hype !!!
Hype
Comments are good for the TH-cam algorithm
Love the DND videos, it’s so good, and the humor is well balanced
I have now watched it!
I now imagine demilich less like a monster and more of a cursed relic that will melt anyone who approaches and/or touches it. Like a necromantic nuclear plant core.
Not to mention that the Demilich has an Evasion like featrue that lets them take half/no damage form all types of saves.
They also have resistance to Bludgeoning,
Piercing and Slashing damage made with magical weapons.
Another funny thing they can do is target the Martial of the Group with the antimagic field, which makes their weapon non magical, and thus unable to harm the Demilich.
And while they are immune against most conditions, they can be blinded which disables a lot of their features and is on of their greatest weaknesses.
You are bringing me fond memories of the time that I cast fog cloud in a room full of beholder zombies and completely rendered them harmless.
The DM's jaw hit the floor because I don't think he thought through using floating eyeball monsters against a Tempest Cleric. 😂
So many Kingmaker players just had PTSD flashbacks. Theres a spot early in the game where you can get a free long rest that spawns a demilich ontop of your heads midway thru the rest.
That guy is a trolling bastard, buy he's actually a wisp one among the many mini boss ones you fight in the game
That was a nasty trick, fucking will-o-wisp
Will O Wisp is not quite the same thing as a Demi-Lich, but given that it's a CR 6 monster with Sorcerer class levels against a party that is most likely only level 3 or 4, yeah that's a wipe for most parties.
They also are immune to all spells and SLAs that allow for spell resistance except for magic missile (sure) and maze. Why maze? Weakness to specifically the *maze* spell might be the single most hyper specific weakness I've seen in PF1e. It's also typically an 8th level spell and only targets a single creature, so if this CR 6 monster gets you to blow an 8th level spell slot on it and only it, I'mma call that a W for the monster.
@@webbowser8834 And of course his first action is to cast *shield*, which makes you immune to Magic Missile. Because FUN.
@@dargaronsoftsong3193 Don't worry, surely you have the incredible maze spell prepared for precisely this situation!
(yes I know there are a handful of damaging spells that don't allow for spell resistance like stone call, I just can't get over the maze thing)
Fought a demilich at level 9, used silence, wall of light and played baseball with the skull punting it into the wall each turn while it constantly got blasted
and this fine creature can be found in a FALSE treasure room in a dungeon filled with instant death, so IF you survived up until finding the "treasure" room you probably won't make it out.....
[I loved dying in this classic dungeon too lol] {{and it is in my campaign too}}
Never expected a Father’s Jewel reference in a dnd vid
Funny you mentioned a beholder.
One of my players convinced a beholder to let him cast a spell on it. Yes he watched that video. He cast gaseous form on it, preventing it from making attacks.
Attacks. SPECIFICALLY. Beholders have one attack and it’s a bite. Their rays and most of their spells rely on saving throws. It became an indestructible cloud of gas shooting lasers, casting spells, and invoking its lair actions on a party that was not only figuratively but now LITERALLY powerless to stop or harm it in any way.
He never again pulled shit he saw in a TH-cam short without asking me how it would work.
Umm...isn't that a concentration spell? Couldn't he just...undo it?
Seems like you also ought to ask someone how it should work, since you got half of it wrong...
So you're a shit DM and came to brag about it in the comments?
@@soulglitcher it is. He could have. He didn’t. I THINK he forgot it was concentration. I don’t remember fully, this is a story from a few years ago, we just bring it up sometimes
@@Kirholm12 literally the only part I got wrong is the spellcasting. I JUST double checked. And beholders don’t HAVE spells, so it’s irrelevant. This is a story from like 3 years ago, get outa my ass about it.
This is my favorite of you segments, even more than Basically. So well done!
This was the last boss of our campaign and it went so hotribly we had to set a Tarasque free just to destroy it.
Would be fun to have as a dream sequence during a long rest
Hilariously stupid by Runesmith's standards?
*Oh, this is going to be great!*
Thankyou for reminding me that i absolutely hate Official Demilitches and have rewritten them to be like, an actual fair fight for my party like four times already.
☝🤓My current issues with this video:
(Not important: Regional effects are optional)
Throwing 3 lvl 14 characters against a CR 18 monster is a deadly encounter. the players are expecting an extremely difficult encounter they might not walk away from if they're knowingly attacking a demilich.
Round 1:
Demilich only uses 1 of 3 lair actions instead of 2 of 3?
Sorcerer has Antimagic field on him, so he's not affected by Howl since its a magical effect.
Fighters have proficiency in CON Saves, and Indomitable would give him advantage if he failed the first roll.
Creatures dropping to 0 Hitpoints from non-damage would be unconscious making death saves rather than instantly dead.
Sorcerer still has Antimagic field, and the draconic wings are created rather than always present on the body which would imply a magical creation rather than a physical feature, so no flying for Shia boy until the field expires.
Also, it would have been better for the sorcerer to use the help action than deal 0 damage on a hit (immunity to nonmagical damage; I doubt the sorcerer has a magic dagger)
Disadvantage doesn't stack, but I understand why he'd try to kill the seemingly weaker target first anyways
Round 2:
Fighter has 2 uses of indomitable by default, probably used one to avoid the howl.
Round 3:
Demilich only uses 1 of 3 lair actions instead of 2 of 3?
If cleric is using '24 version of spiritual weapon, why throw away the current casting of sunbeam?
If cleric is using '14 version of spiritual weapon, she just straight up ignored her current action lol
While the fighter might not have indomitable anymore (idk what happens in this parallel universe), he does still have CON proficiency, but he does also still have disadvantage.
regardless, it would have been best for the cleric to survive since the lair action triggers only half of the time, so the cleric could probably heal the adventurers on round 4.
Sorcerers have access to the Etherealness spell (Border ethereal is partially on the material plane, so it doesn't count as leaving the dungeon) at lvl 14, and while demilichs have truesight 120ft, they cant follow him into the ethereal plane. But he can give one hell of a menacing stare. Idk what the sorcerer would do past this point, but he does have 1 long rest he can take before continuing the battle.
9:45 - is that a Pathfinder rulebook they are holding?
upon seeing the new version of conjure celestial I was like "that's still a cool spell, even if it's nothing like what it's name would suggest" and then I realized that the sentient orbital laser that can heal allies and harm enemies requires YOU to see targets within it to have any effect and immediately took it back
R.I.P Indianapolis Smithojones
Ok but grim hollow having rat mage as a class is great
its a Ranger subclass. main feature is expending a spell slot to summon swarms of rats equal to the level of the spell slot expended. great for summoning extra bodies to tank hits as the swarms have resistance to bludgeoning piercing and slashing damage like all swarms
The switching of cleric and sorcerer didn't go unnoticed, Smithboi
I'm currently playing a campaign of Tomb of Annihilation (don't give spoilers) in Pathfinder 2e at, and we were in the Tomb of Horrors (only adapted very slightly for pathfinder, still as difficult as ever) at levels 1-3. We ran into Acererak.
It took us only one round after talking with the feller to get out of there. In that single round the casualty count went up from 33% to 66% (Snrb our accountant barbarian goblin died. I Boblina, formerly Boblin, the alchemist medical goblin, died previously from a coronation mishap, in a similar manner to how I got genderswapped, namely lack of orphans to test on. Though luckily I got better. If by better you mean a ghost, tied to ashes which is now mud in a jar).
We had to spend an entire wish we found in a corner on ghe floor to bring him back to life (apparently was in the book, according to my DM he didn't add this).
But honestly? Massive success.
We braved the Tomb of Horrors, including an encounter with the big skull himself, and got away with a whopping 33% survival rate at level 1-3!
He died due to Trap Soul by the way.
Wait until you find the surprise Aboleth
Missed opportunity to use the Ganster Paradise "AAAA" sound for Howl, rather than the screech.
I’m never paying my taxes
Is it possible to learn this power?
sounds like an interesting fight but I should probably wait and not unleash that on the party when they are level 14.
Demilich is DM speak for "this is a social encounter"
**“No”**
-the Demilich
Demiliches were so much more powerful in 3.5e. They're immune to all spells except shatter, dispel evil, and holy smite. They had 10th level spells, which they could use for metamagic. They had a lot of other immunities too. They have 8 gems that could instantly trap someone's soul on a failed save, which is an instant death and you have to destroy the gem in 24 hours if you even want to resurrect the person, but even if you pass the save, you gain negative levels. They can cause permanent paralysis on a touch. And they could have Epic Level spells, which were basically higher than level 9 spells.
I can see why they toned them down, cause boy does that not sound like fun to fight.
That's also because in 3.5 a demilich was an upgraded lich, instead of a starved lich like the 5e one.
@@MayHuggerthey were for Epic Level parties, where you can get +6 and above weapons, get feats that let you automatically kill enemies on a critical hit if they fail a saving throw, feats that let you bypass damage reduction, feats that automatically quicken spells to let you cast two spells per round, metamagic feats that combine empower and maximize and increase the maximum damage dies, and epic level spells.
@@KingOfMadCows and you can’t do any of that with what you described of the Demilich.
@@MayHugger Except you can. Penetrating damage reduction is very effective against Demilich since they only have 140 hp. I pointed out three spells the Demilich is not immune to. A Holy Smite with the Intensify Metamagic feat will do 80 damage to the Demilich if it fails the save. The higher levels for metamagic also lets you use metamagic on buffs, like spells that increase your saving throws or give you immunity to negative levels or paralysis, protecting you against the Demilich's instant kill powers.
There are also tons of things you can do with Epic Spells. You can summon powerful creatures like Adult Dragons to fight for you. You can cast a spell that absorbs physical damage and let you release it back as physical damage that bypasses spell resistance and immunity. There's a contingency spell that's like a super charged Sanctuary, it can be triggered by high damage or instant death effect, making the character immune to everything for 1 round, but also makes them unable to act for that round. Only the kill on critical feat is useless against the Demilich.
There are also a lot of other Epic Level feats and abilities that are very useful against Demiliches. There are feats that lets you gain the benefit from wearing extra magical items, like getting the effects from wearing three magical rings. There's a feat that lets you shoot anything in your sight without suffering range penalties, which would basically let you hit a Demilich outside the range of their most powerful abilities. Shapeshifting classes have feats that let them shift into dragons, magical beasts, aberrations, as well as feats that allow them to shift into colossal size creatures.
I mean after the first howl at level 14 the fighter at least has both proficiency in Con saves, and Indomitable, plus all he needs to pass a DC 15 save if a +4 AS in Con which is very reasonable on a fighter of that level (6 (roll) + 5 (prof) + 4 (mod) = 15). The Sorcerer is in a similar situation needing a +3 to Con to save, but still doable on a sorcerer. The cleric doesn’t have the Con prof, so can’t just freely make the save, but I’ve also not brought in any save improving magic items, putting on a Death Ward, or even having the Silence spell on hand preemptively.
I mean yeah the antimagic field would negate most of those later ones, but in this hypothetical its only on the sorcerer, and we’ve established they can still survive with at least a 16 in Con. This is my passionate rant about how a DC 15 saving throw is actually pretty bad at high levels, and a well prepared party may not even notice it.
Hell I can go further with Math! This Battlemaster fighter is level 14 with 139 HP, which isn’t a standard hp increase number but is sandwiched between the average values of a level 14 Fighter with either a +3 or +4 in Con (130 and 144, respectively). So we know they were at worst 1 off and should’ve rolled indomitable, or at best passed even after rolling a 6. I suppose there’s no way to prove this isn’t a +2/+1 Con fighter who took Tough as a feat, but at that point we’re getting deep in the sauce and also you can judge a fighter who had 5 ASI increases and every time looked at 14/12 Con and said ‘good enough!’
Also with 100 HP at level 14 the Sorcerer almost certainly had a +3 in Con! 6 + (4 x 13) + (3 x 14) = 100! Robbery, I say! Robbery!
Couldn't the Cleric toss out a Bless too?
@@Finalplayer14 possibly; the one minute duration is the main challenge there, and you can’t use the spell in reaction to a saving throw. There’s other reasons why it may not be up such as needing concentration elsewhere, not having the spell prepared, etc. I mention death ward because its a non concentration spell that could be applied to every character and lasts for 8 hours, so there’s really no reason to not use it when heading into a dangerous area.
@@fridaynightpizza7158 Demiliches have this
"Avoidance. If the demilich is subjected to an effect that allows it to make a saving throw to take only half damage, it instead takes no damage if it succeeds on the saving throw, and only half damage if it fails."
I LOVE the random encounter with Bobby Bare at 8:22!
Bro really said "What do you want 💎👄💎" and "AAAAUGH 💀"
Personally, as a DM, I home brew the Howl ability so it’s not fail and die. I basically make it into either a necrotic or psychic fireball. Usually I roll a d20 and choose even or odd before the fight starts. Then when it uses this ability it works much like fireball except with different saving throws (Con for necrotic and Wis or Int for psychic). Depending on the party level and composition it does between 8 & 10d6 damage on a fail, and half of that on a success. I also run a house rule that evasion doesn’t work against psychic damage since it targets the mind directly. I find demilich fights are much better this way. I am very much against fail a saving throw and instantly lose your high level character that you’ve played for a long time.
Great video, they are always a solid quality, but this one just had something special. Keep it up bud!
I like these videos because they teach me so much more about how the monster operates than the book actually does.
The sheer hilarity of the "We're from the IRS" followed by everybody instantly dying is unparalleled.
1:00 "What if instead of a cool villain I just had-"
Random perfectly placed sponsored ad: "Ladies and gentlemen, Chuck Norris!"
Correction: shouldn't there be an opportunity to bring back his allies while they are down? The effect should only bring them to 0hp.
Running a campaign about a party of tax collectors sounds like it could be a lot of fun
7:10 - I’m making a Demilich Oubliette now and my party’s going to hate me.
I like how people often forget that things can kill you by doing almost nothing in this game.
- cast silence on the area you wish to stand in
- use cover
- let the Paladin deal with it
What if there’s no Paladin in the party?
@@minxx8594 whatever tank you got. By umpteenth lvl you probably have some sort of magical weapon to give them
For some reason, a paragraph has magically manifested itself so the Demilich can only be silenced with its permission.
I love your battle simulations videos and this one was AWESOME.
Greetings from brazil!
The IRS will not be denied.
4:27 How can the fighter have rolled a 6? They have con save prof, and considering their hp, they should have around a +7 at minimum, more likely a +8 or +9 or so to con saves. Plus indomitable means he can reroll the save.
It’s absolutely not CR 18, but it’s definitely stronger than hit points and damage numbers would lead you to believe. I love this thing to pieces. Thank you for the fun combat, Logan. No one simulates these things like you do.
Demiliches in Baldur's Gate 2 are also silly as hell. Either you have serious fire power, like for example Karsomir +5 weapon, which is two-handed paladin sword which you get from defeating a freaking Red Dragon, and a scroll of protection against magic, which are quite rare and pricy, you dont even bother fighting a demilich. Becouse with all his Death Magics and screaming at you he has the Imprisonment spell, which is basically "I win" spell. Becouse instead something like Maze, if character is hit by that he is stucked for good, unless you cast "Freedom" spell. And if he hit the main character with that it is game over. Like this one is so effective it overshadows any other fancy spells and skills Demilich has.
Literally was just talking about a Demi Lich yesterday, was in a prior 2nd edition game. Killed my character, and another character in the same round. Ahhhh, memories.
I ran a pretty cool one-shot I found online for my friends a few years ago. The final boss was a Demilich and everybody died without making a single action due to the DL rolling high Initiative and using Howl.
Kind of a banger.
Ooh oohhh Do a Chimera encounter next ! But I. The spirit of a Chimera, take three different monsters and fuse them!
Halfway into this and my impression right now is bring a character who is psychotically obsessed with fixing things with his fists