Hello Help me ! What is the "DR" ?? Bon je viens de voir qui tu es ! Mdr ma question reste la même qu'est ce que tu appel le DR ? Et à l'occasion je vais acheter la blackmagic je serais heureux que tu fasses partager un peu d’expérience, bon j'en demande peut être beaucoup... Merci !
Just wanted to add a helpful tip here to the community - the magenta cast on digital cameras are the result of not using an IR filter (Infra-Red). When you see this type of color cast coming from your digital camera, an IR filter will fix the magenta cast, especially if you are using mid to heavy ND. When it comes to BM cameras, I would highly recommend that you use them in tangent with IR filters, otherwise your blacks will be brown and it cannot be fixed in post.
The 4.6 looks fantastic when graded. The only possible sensor issue that jumped out at me was at 3:12 in the clouds to the left of your head-magenta blooms. I hope that gets sorted out soon.
Thank you for the video! I'd like to politely point something out, however. When the 4k is shooting in raw and at its native ISO, two stops of overexposure should be able to be brought back in post. John Brawley posted sample footage he captured that I downloaded and tested myself. While the overexposure isn't as extreme as your video, the highlight latitude is impressive. Seemingly lost skin detail comes right back. I'd think you could overexpose at least 1 & 1/2 stops. ProRes unfortunately tends to fall apart with heavy grades such as this.
Hey man thank you so much for doing this. From someone coming from a 4K to a 4.6k I will have to agree with everything said here. I returned my 4k and got my 4.6k a week ago and its night and day difference. I'm so happy with it. You really helped make the right decision. I feel like twice the camera. I have some footage from each camera I will be posing as well to compare them but its been delightful to grade on the 4.6k, especially using LUTs with it. WOW!!
Thanks alot! And even not just for the test, but for the huge releafe I have becouse i don't have those magenta on my 4,6k ursa. And yes - dinamic range even in 3:1 raw is soooo good. If i'l have time i will make some footage just to show the power of this camera, but i found that you need to shoot in 800iso and use vnd + ircut to have realy crisp image.
If your work is VFX heavy, the case for the 4K grows strong pretty quick. The rolling shutter on the 4.6K is "good", but it doesn't beat the global shutter for difficult tracks, or stabilizing shots :/
The magenta cast on the 4.6 is no where near as bad as the green cast on the 4k in most situations and I find magenta is easier to remove any ways, also with the new update ursa mini users will be able to adjust the tint in camera!
Thanks for the test. The 4K appears to resolve more detail, which is odd as I thought there was no AA filter on either camera. I have seen some incredibly detailed footage from the 4.6k. Are you softening it in post? It looks almost like a RED here as the RED cameras have a very aggressive OLPF that softens the image. The DR of the 4.6k is certainly off the charts, but based on other videos I am not convinced by the highlight roll-off when the sensor is near the clipping point. If you get a chance to conduct a highlight roll-off test with a light bulb in CU it would be much appreciated.
At first I thought the 4K was overexposing compared with the 4.6K, but the f16 test showed that the exposure was very close. 4.6K seems to have far, far better dynamic range. It seriously beats the pants off the 4K in raw or even prores. The main thing putting me off the 4.6k is the magenta cast, though. It would be great on a lot of levels if Blackmagic can offer a decent fix for that.
you'll lose 1-2 stops on the 4.6k and even 2-2.5 stops on the 4k, there are numerous of charts and comparisons online that show how many DR you are losing if you aren't using their native ASA, the 4K's native is 400ASA and the 4.6K's is 800ASA. adjust your ND's separately and THEN you wil see a true comparison between the 2 camera's. the 4K isn't that bad at DR, normally you can pull back a lot of highlights and use Highlight Recovery when filming RAW (if you are using correct ASA)
+mimotan if you have a camera like this. it's pretty sad to me that you don't know basics.. like actual basics.. a lot of people with talent can't afford camera's like that and than some people like this.... just get's on my nerves
+Hermit the Hustler some people are not native american or have english as their native language. (like me) and still do better than most native americans
Pardon my ignorance, I thought i was using a grey white black card correctly, i guess im not sure how to use a color card. How are you doing this, first you use the color checker in resolve, and then color balance the white grays and blacks?
Fantastic test, I love seeing the night-and-day difference between the two cameras. I'm surprised that the 4.6k can really hold onto that color detail when improperly exposed, whereas the 4k just falls apart if it's more than a stop over or under. Great, simple test using real-world conditions. As for the magenta cast, have you tried using an IR filter? I'm really curious to see if it's something with the sensor that requires replacement, or if it can be alleviated with a filter. I don't know if anyone has tested that hypothesis yet.
I should try an IR filter. I actually worked with blackmagic about the color cast. I sent them some examples. They said it will be fix in an update. I'll do a test when that update comes out
Fantastic. I'm in the market for the 4.6K once they fix some of the bugs; the footage you showed really sells the capabilities of the 4.6K compared to the 4K. If you try the IR filter, could you upload a comparison? Hopefully BMD will release an update soon, I know they've received numerous complaints about the magenta cast.
I can indeed confirm that the magenta cast on the 4.6K was due to no IR filtration. I personally experienced this with my BMPCC. If you are using ND without an IR filter, your blacks turn brown and it cannot be properly brought back in post. I use a whitewater ND/IR 1.2 filter combo and it works great!
Excellent! I need some IR NDs. I ended up buying a slightly used 4K, because the price was right and global shutter is great to have. So far I've been really impressed by it, even with the somewhat-limited DR.
The 4.6k sensor is what made me quit BM for Sony... Ive waited 6 months... and still BM keep tell me next month, next month, next month... really upset me. The 4K sensor is quite bad, and it has black sun problem. Anyway, wanted to buy the URSA, not the mini, finally went to Sony, at least when they announce something you get it 2 weeks later. Im a bit sad, i started with BM, always had BM but they really need to improve far too much for their customer relation etc... Buying a camera is an investment, can't make people wait for years after you announce it. Anyway... Happy that the sensor is good, i might think again about buying an URSA in few months if i feel i need it. I still quite love BM... i just think sometimes they are a bit fucked up
These are both poorly exposed, at Asa 200, and poorly graded. If you put both of these at their native ISO and exposed so the sky is just barely not clipping and give it a smooth, lifted midtone arri curve you could get a film like dynamic range on both of these. The 4.6k looks cheap in this test with the shadows crushed instead of the blacks..
+myvideoversion Why are you the only one putting-out these good ursa 4.6k vids, where are all the TH-cam videographers?, does every-one simply prefere to use a 4k-mirrorless or rent a red?.
+Don Floyd not an issue for me - I can see some if I push my saturation to 400%. I noticed a issue with a diagonal streak on the sensor in the bottom half of the frame that becomes visible when I shoot into the sky and push the saturation hard. Since I don't shoot air shows for my work I don't think the streak/line will be a problem but I may send in my camera for service once they are shipping in quantity.
Great dynamic range... awful skin tones!! Definitely could not work with this camera... Nice job on the comparison but I don't agree with your findings. 4k skin tones are good but 4.6k are awful, unnatural and red.
You should always shoot in native ISO or else it destroys your DR...
800 for the 4.6k
400 for the 4k
Hello Help me ! What is the "DR" ??
Bon je viens de voir qui tu es ! Mdr ma question reste la même qu'est ce que tu appel le DR ?
Et à l'occasion je vais acheter la blackmagic je serais heureux que tu fasses partager un peu d’expérience, bon j'en demande peut être beaucoup...
Merci !
Dynamic Range
400 for 4.6k too
Just wanted to add a helpful tip here to the community - the magenta cast on digital cameras are the result of not using an IR filter (Infra-Red). When you see this type of color cast coming from your digital camera, an IR filter will fix the magenta cast, especially if you are using mid to heavy ND. When it comes to BM cameras, I would highly recommend that you use them in tangent with IR filters, otherwise your blacks will be brown and it cannot be fixed in post.
The 4.6 looks fantastic when graded. The only possible sensor issue that jumped out at me was at 3:12 in the clouds to the left of your head-magenta blooms. I hope that gets sorted out soon.
love your tests! thanks for putting them out there. keep up the good work! interested to see what you've got planned next!
Thank you for the video! I'd like to politely point something out, however. When the 4k is shooting in raw and at its native ISO, two stops of overexposure should be able to be brought back in post. John Brawley posted sample footage he captured that I downloaded and tested myself. While the overexposure isn't as extreme as your video, the highlight latitude is impressive. Seemingly lost skin detail comes right back. I'd think you could overexpose at least 1 & 1/2 stops. ProRes unfortunately tends to fall apart with heavy grades such as this.
Hey man thank you so much for doing this. From someone coming from a 4K to a 4.6k I will have to agree with everything said here. I returned my 4k and got my 4.6k a week ago and its night and day difference. I'm so happy with it. You really helped make the right decision. I feel like twice the camera. I have some footage from each camera I will be posing as well to compare them but its been delightful to grade on the 4.6k, especially using LUTs with it. WOW!!
Thanks alot! And even not just for the test, but for the huge releafe I have becouse i don't have those magenta on my 4,6k ursa. And yes - dinamic range even in 3:1 raw is soooo good. If i'l have time i will make some footage just to show the power of this camera, but i found that you need to shoot in 800iso and use vnd + ircut to have realy crisp image.
Great stuff! The case for the 4.6K is pretty clear. I cannot imagine paying big bucks and then cheap out to not go all the way for the 4.6K.
If your work is VFX heavy, the case for the 4K grows strong pretty quick. The rolling shutter on the 4.6K is "good", but it doesn't beat the global shutter for difficult tracks, or stabilizing shots :/
The magenta cast on the 4.6 is no where near as bad as the green cast on the 4k in most situations and I find magenta is easier to remove any ways, also with the new update ursa mini users will be able to adjust the tint in camera!
I am so glad I never got the 4K version, but can't wait for the 4.6K to land outside my door!
Why are you shooting at 200iso vs the native 800?
Wonderful test! Here's hoping for the firmware fix.
Thanks, this was very helpful I'm a little bit concern about the magenta cast, let's see if they improve this in the next firmware.
Thanks for the test. The 4K appears to resolve more detail, which is odd as I thought there was no AA filter on either camera. I have seen some incredibly detailed footage from the 4.6k. Are you softening it in post? It looks almost like a RED here as the RED cameras have a very aggressive OLPF that softens the image. The DR of the 4.6k is certainly off the charts, but based on other videos I am not convinced by the highlight roll-off when the sensor is near the clipping point. If you get a chance to conduct a highlight roll-off test with a light bulb in CU it would be much appreciated.
This was super helpful! Thanks for doing this.
At first I thought the 4K was overexposing compared with the 4.6K, but the f16 test showed that the exposure was very close. 4.6K seems to have far, far better dynamic range. It seriously beats the pants off the 4K in raw or even prores. The main thing putting me off the 4.6k is the magenta cast, though. It would be great on a lot of levels if Blackmagic can offer a decent fix for that.
you filmed at 200 ASA ?? that destroys the DR of both cameras, use the native asa's and you'll get better results, especially on the 4k
you'll lose 1-2 stops on the 4.6k and even 2-2.5 stops on the 4k, there are numerous of charts and comparisons online that show how many DR you are losing if you aren't using their native ASA, the 4K's native is 400ASA and the 4.6K's is 800ASA. adjust your ND's separately and THEN you wil see a true comparison between the 2 camera's. the 4K isn't that bad at DR, normally you can pull back a lot of highlights and use Highlight Recovery when filming RAW (if you are using correct ASA)
Its very hard for some people to understand what native ISO is....sadly.
+mimotan if you have a camera like this. it's pretty sad to me that you don't know basics.. like actual basics.. a lot of people with talent can't afford camera's like that and than some people like this.... just get's on my nerves
+Hermit the Hustler some people are not native american or have english as their native language. (like me) and still do better than most native americans
Couldn't agree more lol
Pardon my ignorance, I thought i was using a grey white black card correctly, i guess im not sure how to use a color card. How are you doing this, first you use the color checker in resolve, and then color balance the white grays and blacks?
Thank you very much! Very helpful! - When shooting raw did you over expose? Best
Great test! Regards from Poland!
Fantastic test, I love seeing the night-and-day difference between the two cameras. I'm surprised that the 4.6k can really hold onto that color detail when improperly exposed, whereas the 4k just falls apart if it's more than a stop over or under. Great, simple test using real-world conditions. As for the magenta cast, have you tried using an IR filter? I'm really curious to see if it's something with the sensor that requires replacement, or if it can be alleviated with a filter. I don't know if anyone has tested that hypothesis yet.
I should try an IR filter. I actually worked with blackmagic about the color cast. I sent them some examples. They said it will be fix in an update. I'll do a test when that update comes out
Fantastic. I'm in the market for the 4.6K once they fix some of the bugs; the footage you showed really sells the capabilities of the 4.6K compared to the 4K. If you try the IR filter, could you upload a comparison? Hopefully BMD will release an update soon, I know they've received numerous complaints about the magenta cast.
I can indeed confirm that the magenta cast on the 4.6K was due to no IR filtration. I personally experienced this with my BMPCC. If you are using ND without an IR filter, your blacks turn brown and it cannot be properly brought back in post. I use a whitewater ND/IR 1.2 filter combo and it works great!
Excellent! I need some IR NDs. I ended up buying a slightly used 4K, because the price was right and global shutter is great to have. So far I've been really impressed by it, even with the somewhat-limited DR.
even after your correction the face is so purple in the 4.6k :( the color is so much nicer on the 4k I can't believe the difference :(
kdx films, Just poor color grading. I could fix the color on the 4.6k to destroy the 4k in 30 seconds
Have you run into any serious issues with the 4.6k? Lots of people online bashing it but have you run into any of those issues?
The only issue I have had is with the magenta tint. I am working with blackmagic to see if I have a bad sensor or not
Wow your 4K is super sharp!
Did you edit both in BMD film and did you use DR or another grading program? :)
Great test! before testing on RAW what codec were you using?
It was prores 422HQ
4K DR VIDEO OR FILM IN PRORES 422 ?
Film
thank you
Super interesting thanks!
why the 4.6k field of view looks wider than the 4k? didnt you use the same lens?
The 4.6K has a slightly bigger sensor than the 4K
that is cool, thanks, looks like an amazing camera
question why didnt you try different IOSs?
I should have. Yeah I wish I did
you keep listing the iso but this is raw is it not?
No this is ProRes with one shot that was raw.
Gracias !!!
The 4.6k sensor is what made me quit BM for Sony... Ive waited 6 months... and still BM keep tell me next month, next month, next month... really upset me. The 4K sensor is quite bad, and it has black sun problem. Anyway, wanted to buy the URSA, not the mini, finally went to Sony, at least when they announce something you get it 2 weeks later.
Im a bit sad, i started with BM, always had BM but they really need to improve far too much for their customer relation etc... Buying a camera is an investment, can't make people wait for years after you announce it. Anyway... Happy that the sensor is good, i might think again about buying an URSA in few months if i feel i need it. I still quite love BM... i just think sometimes they are a bit fucked up
These are both poorly exposed, at Asa 200, and poorly graded. If you put both of these at their native ISO and exposed so the sky is just barely not clipping and give it a smooth, lifted midtone arri curve you could get a film like dynamic range on both of these. The 4.6k looks cheap in this test with the shadows crushed instead of the blacks..
You need to shoot at 800 to get max DR
Agreed. I was trying to show an apples to apples by having both cameras not at their optimal iso
+myvideoversion Why are you the only one putting-out these good ursa 4.6k vids, where are all the TH-cam videographers?, does every-one simply prefere to use a 4k-mirrorless or rent a red?.
+Don Floyd a lot of people are using the 4.6 like myself - it's a fantastic camera and I am personally too busy shooting with it!
How do u feel about the magenta
+Don Floyd not an issue for me - I can see some if I push my saturation to 400%. I noticed a issue with a diagonal streak on the sensor in the bottom half of the frame that becomes visible when I shoot into the sky and push the saturation hard. Since I don't shoot air shows for my work I don't think the streak/line will be a problem but I may send in my camera for service once they are shipping in quantity.
Great dynamic range... awful skin tones!! Definitely could not work with this camera... Nice job on the comparison but I don't agree with your findings. 4k skin tones are good but 4.6k are awful, unnatural and red.
That's fair check out this video with the new updates that might change your mind. th-cam.com/video/td78_N9CeMk/w-d-xo.html