I ran this same test with my buddy we played 7 games straight in the Rochester/Azuma combo and the first game we switched off got a carrier lobby, very sus indeed
Plane management would require thought and effort, and the entire point is to make CVs so effortless, that more people will play them. So, because WG has revenue goals pinned to new CV content introduction, this likely will never get addressed.
^this guy’s probably right. They paid to have CVs implemented into the game. I wouldn’t be surprised for the July update if we get Enterprise. Buffing CVs to asinine levels then offering the Big E for 17500 sounds like Wargaming
Their emergency patch note is just the most frustrating thing about this whole update. It's just pure gas lighting when compared to how broken the game is post their " balance" update
@@DerkaGamesWhat I hate most about this hotfix that they are dropping is that they basically make Shoukaku unplayable again as Ryujou and Lexington do her job aka torping anything that moves better then she does. The stock does less damage then the t5 Ryujou(7200) and even when upgraded Lexington(6333 per torp) deals more torp damage then Shoukaku(6100) , the only thing Shoukaku has over Lexington is torp speed which does not really matter to a good cv player.
That might have been me sorry, did you happen to by sailing in line with a Kgv/Sharnhorst? On a stormy map with that one sideways v shaped island on a cap and lots of tiny islands on c cap?
@@Blue_Rubber_Duckie in my defense you were the first one I spotted caught you broadside with a bad AA bb sailing next to you, you were the ideal target
Took a break from the game before the CV update dropped, feels like I dogded a bullet lol. Definitely not touching the game until the CVs are fixed, doesn't sound fun to play against at all
it hasn’t been fun at all, i usually main bbs and cruisers and i just completely stopped playing ships with bad aa cause you’re just free damage and to top it off i bought the fucking admiralty backing 🤦🏻♂️
@Slattatronnn As a BB main myself, feeling like free damage is definitely one of the worst feelings to have, I guess that's why the conqueror is my favourite ship lol. As for the admiralty backing, gots to see it through now my boy. You could play lower tiers that don't have CVs to make it more bareable? (No big 16 inch guns so there is a compromise)🫡
I politely asked the boys twice on the wowsl stream, ''What was the feedback from the testers prior to release?'' No reply. The testers must be sayings 'We told you so' after the release:)
Someone else said, that the testers only had to test if ships works, or not. And not report about their feelings about damage output, or accuracy, or anything else really.
What's funny is before the update, guys in my DC were already talking about how broken these things were going to be just by adding DPM values from the MOB article. They hadn't even played them yet and knew they were busted. Leaves you to wonder how wargaming, with all their spreadsheets, data, information, and calculations didn't see it 🤣
I played a couple of games for the first time since the update earlier today (had a busy week!). In a T7 game, we lost a battleship *before* we had surface spotted the enemy ships. Poor guy...
It almost sounds like the same problems Wargaming is having with carriers over on PC. Back before THAT infamous rework, carrier borne aircraft was (and I'm quoting the Mighty Jingles here) more RTS style of gameplay. I've seen video clips here and there showing that style pf CV gameplay and it looked pretty solid, and it was more or less accurate. Once your planes were shot out of the sky, that was it. The carrier didn't have a "magic pixy dust factory" under the flight deck producing brand-new aircraft and then launching those said brand-new aircraft into the battle. I was in my Iowa earlier today, and I got focused down HEAVILY by enemy aircraft from a Graf Zepplin, along with those new aircraft dropped bombs from the new Dutch light cruiser (which should get a nerf too). All of that combined made my life hell, and it doesn't do any justice when the one battleship with arguably the best AA in the game (and to a broader scope, history) gets blown up quite mercilessly. I couldn't be any angrier than I am right now. Quite frankly, this rework is a load of crap, regardless of if they're "trying" to make carriers easier to play for newer players.
Simple solution: cool-down between squadrons that begins once a squadron is either destroyed or abandoned. Particularly, as with switching shell types, when switching squadron type. The ability of a CV to launch repeat attacks in quick succession appears to be the main problem. In exchange for the plane regeneration, accuracy, and/or number of bombs/torpedos/rockets of course. AA, especially the defensive AA consumable, should also be highly effective and the consumable potentially include a temporary range extension to AA to severely mitigate a CV attack. 1. Make AA builds worth it. 2. Reduce back-to-back CV attack spam. Simple.
I specced my Brisbane , a ship with excellent AA, with every AA buff I could, modules commander skills and inspirations, changed sonar for DFAA. Shot down 70 planes, still died to the CV. Be interesting to see if the hotfix changes things, i suspect not.
If plane restoration is the big change, it makes sense to start small and see if little changes get it to where WG wants it to be. They can break out the big changes later if necessary.
Derka, I always thought: A hearty decrease to alpha damage A hearty increase to plane regeneration times An increase to fuel times (about 1/4th current value) would be best Add a single spotter plane consumable for team play You're decreasing the damage on a single strike, specifically the first strike that will always get through; and you're changing them to rely on multiple well placed strikes to do damage. Also youll be punished for poor decision making by the longer Regeneration times
I agree-the bomb/torp damage is not as much of a problem as regen time is. Make the AA and planes lost mean something. More/harder hits definitely a plus but the regen time makes losses irrelevant. Also making a way for players to choose squadron sizes before launch via a pull and hold (charge) mechanic would go a long way in balancing flight times, DPM, and effectiveness of AA.
Honestly, I didn’t play against too many carriers the other day when I came back. But not being spotted on the sea by planes is SO huge of a change, that was easily the most frustrating part of the game for me. Especially as a big destroyer fan, decent CV’s would just harass you all game and you couldn’t do anything, as your torps were spotted and the entire team would delete you when spotted. I think that’s the greatest W this update. The damage does seem crazy, but I feel like I can deal with that so long as they don’t keep me spotted at all times
I was playing full aa la foudra and was attacked by a kaga for about 4 minutes and only shot down 12 of his planes when he flew right in to my flak and 700 dps aa
Had a 70 plane game in Chumphon on a Kaga. 3733 XP with 30K damage. Got GGs after and all I did was kill a DD/cap, then spent the next 12 minutes dodging CV bombs/torps. I’ll never touch 3733 XP in a Chumphon again and it was a 30K damage game
100% agreed that plane regeneration is the problem. A carrier’s strongest asset is always its aircraft. This game currently treats the aircraft like an afterthought.
1000% these are damage monsters now. I have this Schlieffen in my mind...I 3 tapped him at the beginning of a match on Haven. 69k in a couple minutes, Absolute damage monsters
Honestly, it it wasnt for the Ostrogotland, I would have just taken a break. That DD has been my MVP. The AA on it is fierce without needing to really spec into it. Its helped to still enjoy playing while they adjust the carriers.
CV spotting is real crap now. as a semi-main cv player i have no incentive trying to spot for my team anymore. sure i can light them up on the minimap but with the potatoes playing on a general basis it's just not being exploited by blue ships when i actually find red DDs. before they change the spotting to actually hard spot red ships i will not go out of my way wasting gas trying to find ships not actually threatening my carrier
I keep saying that the problem was the fact was that because when they looked at the data and interpret it to buff/nerf them, the data was going to be skewed horrendously because so many people abstained from playing them, so they were essentially blind in terms of the true nature of it.
yeah the carriers are over cooked and its good to see the response from WG. the spotting rework is awesome! I have been having a lot more success and as a result I have been having more fun in standard battles. I think the spotting rework really helps new and less experience players by giving them more time to get into a good position and more time to get out of a bad one. AA builds are more consistent and rewarding at Tier 3 4 5.....investing into AA at high Tiers is a big gamble. Kirov is a beast
it's literally a drop in the ocean, AA does not work. I did a total AA build with max everything, 67 planes shot down. Just omg. BUT they got the fuel right and spotting right.
I play solely on PC and i main CV’s and altough CV by their nature is a strong class on pc from what i have seen on legends its crazy how OP they are on PC i still have many ships i have to be carefull even aproaching like gouden leeuw, halland, petrapavlosk, minotaur since they can whipe squadrons with a few flack clouds so it still takes planning and preserving planes to be an effective CV but seeing 4 torps on hakuryu and insane plane regen makes all previous things i mentioned just an inconvienence
I think most of the conversation around CVs has been gaslighting people into agreeing that all CVs are like the LT CVs, without knowing what the other 21 CVs are like. Also, think WG should have said what the main complaints of CVs were before the CV changes. Because unlike how people like it, whatever changes they make to CVs to make them more friendly to new players or lesser skilled CV players, will always been seen as a major buff by veteran/great CV players.
I've played most of the T5 carriers, am usually Top of the boards every game. Have also personally played Kaga, and Graf. Both performed quite well for a Non CV player. Since you brought it up tho 😄 I have been seeing tons of insane CVs matches at all tiers LT ships are the most fun to show because they're the most OP! 9k torp alpha on Haky? I mean come on
Also another thing, and I’m not a CC but I have played this game since it came out plus a few years on PC before that, it feels like WG, at least on Legends is removing the strategy and thinking parts of this game. You said this at the end of the video. They’re removing penalties for overextending like never running out of planes and they’re releasing these tiny maps where you can’t do any positioning and playing around with the spitting mechanics. It feels like they just want the buzzer to hit go and everyone rush each other like a football game then you die in 1 minute and play the next game
@@DerkaGames yeah you can just endlessly spam attacks at full throttle and there’s basically no consequence. I still think the whole thing is dumb and don’t know why they thought it was necessary at all but if you wanted to do some balancing, maybe make CVs more stealthy, slightly increase the damage, slightly increase the aircraft recovery time and buff AA. The fuel mechanic does nothing. I’d bet not a single person has run out of fuel but hey, it is what it is
@@CamMcCulls-kx6zk all I’ve seen people asking for was more space and better spawns so you’re not spotted immediately. A 1/3rd of this game is allegedly map knowledge, stat knowledge like knowing spotting ranges etc, and positioning. When teams are spawned right on the other side of an island you can’t do anything like that. It just feels like a mobile game copy of WOWS. Just something you whip out while you’re getting your oil changed and goof off for a little bit
I agree with your changes. I have a partial AA build on my iowa, CV took a third of my health before I could even get in range to shoot another ship. You can’t really dodge and your already on cooldown for damgecon when you engage ships. How is this fair? Your going to loose a lot more players if WG keeps this up. Why should I even bother playing when I know I’m gonna get wrecked in a CV game? Have a great day!
The Plymouth is the best damage output that chews up aircraft. Base xp 3000 shot down 43 planes sunk four ships and I was the last ship to die on my team.
...this is not surprising, I mean it was expected... Remember Derka what I said before, this is what they do as they create a problem then they either sell the solution or take a long time to balance.
Played for the first time since the update on June 2nd, and i can't do anything with my carriers. Usually I play the Saipan whenever I wind up with free premium because it nets 500k a game, but that ship was great because you hit hard but have low numbers of planes so you must conserve, now I can't have fun flying around to get a good angle in the early game without running out of fuel, my drops do the same amount of damage as always, my spotting is useless. I hate every element of this. If you want new players to pick up carriers the ONLY thing you have to do is increase damage on tier 3 carriers. That's it. All tier 3 carriers are underwhelming and by the time you hit high tiers we don't need the game holding our hand saying "stay close to the action with this fuel mechanic" like, I know it takes longer to reach my target, that's penalty enough
Saipan is honestly the most disappointing CV I've played post Buff. Try Kaga, it's insane. Even Graf faired better. And 100% would rec Lexi and Parseval
I have an AA built for many ships. And finally, it's shy. I have no problem with an initial update at all. CVs are finally playable. Not sure about the L tier. Maybe there needs a nerf.
I haven’t played since Tuesday cause I got back into Kingdom Come Deliverance and got distracted. But from what I’m seeing, I would call this entire rebalancing a wash and the whole thing should be scrapped. Idk why they even did it in the first place. Everything was generally fine
As a new player but CV familiar, a lot of the negative feedback seems to be against Premium or Legendary CVs. I maybe wrong. At lower tiers, the play feels less enjoyable and team-effective. Because… - It’s easy to get de-planed in any of the Russian CVs. - Pushing up with limited fuel you get 2 shot by a slightly bold BB, or staying static results the same with bolder enemies. - It’s boring monotonous up/return tunnel vision play (tier V and iii was not like this before). The CV is known to be the prize, every game has an anti CV focused player. Most people are running fighter planes. I’ve always meant to test speed. As it sounds total rubbish. No way a plane is doing 190kt and a ship doing 35 … a speed difference of 155 … more than x5 faster … lol doubtful you catch ships that fast. On one hand the damage results are higher - unfairly it seems. But the fun is lower. And blow-out games are more frequent. I’d need to test more of the various Tech Tree CVs over more time to see which actually feel good and which feel bad. For instance I avoided the Ranger and Implacable before, but they now feel effective. I think: the additional bombs for the Ryujo and Weiser are much better - yet a wise DD will always out dodge them; the skip bomb one-bounce rule is fair. The spotting, I’m still working it out, but okay. (Like, as a ship, if it says “plane spotted” surely that should mean nobody actually has eyes & target on you?! And as the ship, how can you tell when the team has spotted a ship?) Lower plane health and more planes - not sure I’m seeing a plus to this per se. It’s just more clear sky shots for ships - fair enough. You still need to pre drop with some CVs and certain well setup enemies. Knowing which side of your team will fold has always been a lottery but you can no longer aid both sides of the map as a CV. I’ve seen some very aggressive CV play, but they often get blown away; and yet you still get some CVs run for the corner at the hint of loss. My hot fix would be to lower damage of CV, and to increase the fuel a bit. Certain individual CVs need even more fixing I suspect.
I would rather take a restoration time increase to 90 seconds on my Shoukaku then take the dmg hit she is going to take rn 6100 per torp are you serious Lexington deals more damage with her torps now so what even is the point of playing Shoukaku.
? No idea what that says. And not touched those ships. Like I say, I’m on Tech Tree stuff and they’re a mixed bag. Oddly enough. Whilst the Ryujo had been consistently getting me loss after loss, I reluctantly turned to the one premium I do have but never use - the slow Zuiho. It totally suits this current patch and had plenty matches near 100k damage. So I stand by it, the patch needs looking at to see which ships it grossly buffs, and which ones it’s made a little too strong yet introduced some weird gameplay. I looked at fuel range today. That seems to make a big difference and maybe explains some issues.
Is there a legitimate stat line that shows aircraft speed rendering surface ship AA less effective? Because I keep hearing that you can just fly through the AA and take less damage. Is there a way to measure that?
I am fine with the plane regeneration speed it was to long before. Lets look at it this way if other ships say BBs had to reload 1 gun at a time, no one would play them as most BBs get reload a full solovo again faster the CVs get full squads, that along with better AA at higer tiers meet most CVs stayed at low tier 2-5 were AA is crap for most ships. In 20 games 14 times or of 20 I see a CV most times the tier 3, but the 5 too so AA building is a good option. But now with this higer regeneration now CVs are now showing up in the higher tiers, something tier 7 and up players never had to fear to much, so now like every tier below them they now have to think about do I run AA. What happened is now Tier 7 and up players are now facing what lower tier ones do. As for damge to we say nerf BBs because they can do that to? No we do not hear that as much but if CVs get any buff its the end of the game its busted, nerf.
Also I hate the new clear skies, it’s 40 planes now which means you have to get focused by a carrier which also sucks. Well at least WG is going in the right direction
How do you revitalize a class that no one plays? Buff the crap out of it, and have the nerf patch ready to go… wargamming did exactly what they intended
I would not mind the nerfs if they weren't so heavy, like 6100 dmg a torp on Shoukaku you know the line that should have extremely good trops now Lexington does more damage then Shoukaku does with her torps hell if you don't upgrade Shoukaku RYUJOU THE T5 SHIP does more TORP DMG THEN SHOUKAKU DOES!!! She needed a nerf not a dismantling.
I'm not sold on the change to spotting. I think a lack of spotting from knowledgeable teammates was already a bit of a plague on the game experience as the player base has continued to devolve.
The new spotting is hogwash and the fuel limit needs to be increased or gotten rid of. Carriers should be able to spot away from the action. Not saying border humping is good but never in history did a carrier willingly sail towards an enemy fleet within 15 km.
actually they didn't nerf Damage they just reduced accuracy and number of bombs by one but up the damage to the bombs so it's just going to be a wash and be the same thing as it is now
Naw. It ain't working. Just played a game in the Wichita and I got harassed by a Graf Zepplin (or whatever it's called) and I barely made it out after killing it with 4k hp left. Aircraft still are WAY TOO POWERFUL.
Not sure I liked a single change, not even the fuel, which is a shame as I was happy for WG to Change it up but basically I don’t play t the moment. Zero fun and I don’t see the patch changing that
You should be punished for dropping torps that high altitude, you should be punished for throwing away planes recklessly, my suggestion is reducing max fuel the less planes you have.
So WG just stopped testing update? I guess they dont have anyone gets paid that actually knows how to play the game. Either that, or the people calling the shots dont care about gameplay. Both are extremely concerning.
Nerf it, then cv player complain and they nerf aa never end cycle, just like with vanilla wows carriers and subs should never have been a thing or CV should have been left like they were upon release where CVs had fighter wings and could actively counter each other, and they had limited wings. Also couldn’t launch if deck was on fire.
I'm a skilled CV main and there is 2 other factors that needs to be address that drastically altered the way all CV's are now played. 1) spotting is no longer an incentive for CV's which means hyper focusing on farming damage is. 2) something skilled CV's did before the update but now the new mechanics forces every CV to play closer to the action. Before the update skilled CV players would always play as close to the enemy to achieve high damage games. Now I see in almost every game CV's moving up allowing them to increase their damage.
The drastic method of play change was entirely the point of the update, they address both of your points almost directly in the update post. Spotting was changed to increase the value of destroyers, and keep the carriers from being able to just sit on top of them until they're dead Fuel was added so that CVs would move closer to the battlefield thus making them more vulnerable as well as to allow "alternative battle modes" as an option to them You're seeing carriers trying to get closer to "damage farm" but it's really just a by product of the fuel having a massive limit to their battle impact. I'm a huge fan of both changes personally as the CV still gives you map awareness via the minimap, without fear of being farmed as a result from every cruiser in the game.
Nah, its all wrong what we need is Cruise Missiles, that strike 100% of the time, and do 100% damage..!! Get these pesky matches over in 30 seconds, surly thats bedt, why bither using tactics, and team play, so totally pointless. (SARCASM) if you weren't already on tnis page!
Ahoi. The real problem with carriers is still untouched. Its the problem that its player-driven on one side and totally random and passive on the other side. If they are not able to make it work they should get rid if those fckn CV!
the update is great, it makes carriers feel like a boat worth playing, earning silver and exp. sadto hear they going to nerf it back into uselessness or running out of planes, tier 7 ur planes just disapear in first attack wave. last update they buffed all french BBs and ppl getting cits for days, why no one rebalance that instead ? keep carriers fun and useful not a constant deficit of it. maybe they should only "balance" certain tiers and specific stats - or boost aa slightly. chumphon AA used to be great, and it was updated long ago into uselessness, the AA jus tickles planes for 15 minutes its awful.
The update is great if you like carriers, which I don’t. I can make a reasonable effort to defend myself against all ship types apart from carriers now. If a carrier player decides to focus you at the start, you are finished. If an another ship decides to focus me, at least I can do something about it.
I will agree that CVs were pretty boring before. But now? They're absolutely insane. WOWSL's XP world record (the highest XP ever earned, in 5 years time, over the course of every single game played, ever) was nearly broken in a few days. Missed it by less than 100 XP. What does that tell us? Lol
I'll give you a bottle a water to throw on me and I'll hook up a hosepipe to the tap you use on you and let's see who comes out the worse. The cvs are totally broken they can just keep throwing planes into any amount of AA because they always have another full squadron ready to go, there is absolutely nothing anyone can do and no consequences for the carrier like every other person has. They couldn't be any further away from fair if they tried.
Nope. Some ships have practically no AA. I don’t want to playing the same ships all the time just because they have good AA, for example light American cruisers, Minotaur, Friesland etc.
I don't usually get in the comments and argue but....well how about this. If CVs were indeed fair, would Wargaming have rushed a hot patch nerf out in a week? 😄
Agreed Tom. Like I love Mino and Dp7 but dont wanna play them all the time. Imagine playing ODIN during this update. Literally just a floating hulk of HP
@@DerkaGames Probably not Derka! I hope they get it it right whatever they do. I don't want to be boosting my AA and then loosing out on other ship specifications that I would prefer to have.
What's also sus is when you pick a 100 AA ship to counter them you don't get aircraft carriers on enemy team.....
My Rochester can testify
I ran this same test with my buddy we played 7 games straight in the Rochester/Azuma combo and the first game we switched off got a carrier lobby, very sus indeed
I went full AA build on Friesland and got into the first non-carrier game in 2 days 😅
My Worcester and Clevelend can testify
I played my Montana without the aa mod. CV every match. I switch to aa mod and haven’t seen a carrier in 5 games yet
Good point. Planes are their main weapons, and if BBs and CCs can lose their main guns, so should CVs.
Love how in the emergency patch they didn’t even touch restoration time which is part of the problem
Plane management would require thought and effort, and the entire point is to make CVs so effortless, that more people will play them. So, because WG has revenue goals pinned to new CV content introduction, this likely will never get addressed.
^this guy’s probably right. They paid to have CVs implemented into the game. I wouldn’t be surprised for the July update if we get Enterprise. Buffing CVs to asinine levels then offering the Big E for 17500 sounds like Wargaming
All I can say is, they better get s*** hammered out BEFORE they sell expensive premiums or they will have a dumpster fire on their hands
Their emergency patch note is just the most frustrating thing about this whole update. It's just pure gas lighting when compared to how broken the game is post their " balance" update
@@DerkaGamesWhat I hate most about this hotfix that they are dropping is that they basically make Shoukaku unplayable again as Ryujou and Lexington do her job aka torping anything that moves better then she does. The stock does less damage then the t5 Ryujou(7200) and even when upgraded Lexington(6333 per torp) deals more torp damage then Shoukaku(6100) , the only thing Shoukaku has over Lexington is torp speed which does not really matter to a good cv player.
I was in a sinop and i got harrased by a shokaku yet i shot don more than 30 planes and he still was launching full squadrons💀
Sounds about right!
That might have been me sorry, did you happen to by sailing in line with a Kgv/Sharnhorst? On a stormy map with that one sideways v shaped island on a cap and lots of tiny islands on c cap?
@@Wilsontripplets yeah bro i think that was me ☠☠
@@Blue_Rubber_Duckie in my defense you were the first one I spotted caught you broadside with a bad AA bb sailing next to you, you were the ideal target
Took a break from the game before the CV update dropped, feels like I dogded a bullet lol.
Definitely not touching the game until the CVs are fixed, doesn't sound fun to play against at all
it hasn’t been fun at all, i usually main bbs and cruisers and i just completely stopped playing ships with bad aa cause you’re just free damage and to top it off i bought the fucking admiralty backing 🤦🏻♂️
@Slattatronnn As a BB main myself, feeling like free damage is definitely one of the worst feelings to have, I guess that's why the conqueror is my favourite ship lol.
As for the admiralty backing, gots to see it through now my boy. You could play lower tiers that don't have CVs to make it more bareable? (No big 16 inch guns so there is a compromise)🫡
I politely asked the boys twice on the wowsl stream, ''What was the feedback from the testers prior to release?'' No reply.
The testers must be sayings 'We told you so' after the release:)
There weren’t any testers…well, not until this week
Someone else said, that the testers only had to test if ships works, or not. And not report about their feelings about damage output, or accuracy, or anything else really.
@@Zapranoth-lf8nt True :)
@freddyfox5002 The testers do give WG feedback on how different changes affect balance and strategy. Sometimes they listen, other times not.
What's funny is before the update, guys in my DC were already talking about how broken these things were going to be just by adding DPM values from the MOB article. They hadn't even played them yet and knew they were busted. Leaves you to wonder how wargaming, with all their spreadsheets, data, information, and calculations didn't see it 🤣
I played a couple of games for the first time since the update earlier today (had a busy week!). In a T7 game, we lost a battleship *before* we had surface spotted the enemy ships. Poor guy...
OOF rip king
Subs are coming. Thats what the Provencien is about. They are stealth testing the aircraft depth charge run mechanic.
It almost sounds like the same problems Wargaming is having with carriers over on PC. Back before THAT infamous rework, carrier borne aircraft was (and I'm quoting the Mighty Jingles here) more RTS style of gameplay. I've seen video clips here and there showing that style pf CV gameplay and it looked pretty solid, and it was more or less accurate. Once your planes were shot out of the sky, that was it. The carrier didn't have a "magic pixy dust factory" under the flight deck producing brand-new aircraft and then launching those said brand-new aircraft into the battle. I was in my Iowa earlier today, and I got focused down HEAVILY by enemy aircraft from a Graf Zepplin, along with those new aircraft dropped bombs from the new Dutch light cruiser (which should get a nerf too). All of that combined made my life hell, and it doesn't do any justice when the one battleship with arguably the best AA in the game (and to a broader scope, history) gets blown up quite mercilessly. I couldn't be any angrier than I am right now. Quite frankly, this rework is a load of crap, regardless of if they're "trying" to make carriers easier to play for newer players.
They need to nerf the gas if their goal is to get carriers to move up. Still having carriers camp at the back with no signs of gas issues.
Thanks for the vid Derka.
This update has been interesting to say the least lol.
Gg🍻
Interesting is the word 😄
Simple solution: cool-down between squadrons that begins once a squadron is either destroyed or abandoned. Particularly, as with switching shell types, when switching squadron type. The ability of a CV to launch repeat attacks in quick succession appears to be the main problem.
In exchange for the plane regeneration, accuracy, and/or number of bombs/torpedos/rockets of course.
AA, especially the defensive AA consumable, should also be highly effective and the consumable potentially include a temporary range extension to AA to severely mitigate a CV attack.
1. Make AA builds worth it. 2. Reduce back-to-back CV attack spam. Simple.
I specced my Brisbane , a ship with excellent AA, with every AA buff I could, modules commander skills and inspirations, changed sonar for DFAA.
Shot down 70 planes, still died to the CV.
Be interesting to see if the hotfix changes things, i suspect not.
Wasn’t WG’s last hotfix due to carriers being underwhelming at launch.
Agree, not sure how these nerfs are going to help much if they aren’t going to slow down aircraft regeneration.
I’m taking a break for a while until this gets sorted…
We just need the content creators and people that make content for YT to keep up the fight against it and they will change it.
All the crying and nagging could have been solved by increasing the effectiveness of shrapnel on AA shells, done...
Still wouldn't of changed the fact they're back to pretty much having infinite planes.
@mattsmith5421 true, like ships run out of shells and gas also, you have a great point.
@@fidelcastro4396 really that's your rebuttal? Lol use your brain for a minute and think what the point of my comment was.
Facts! The range and damage should be increased
AA rework and raising restoration times would solve the issue
If plane restoration is the big change, it makes sense to start small and see if little changes get it to where WG wants it to be. They can break out the big changes later if necessary.
Derka, I always thought:
A hearty decrease to alpha damage
A hearty increase to plane regeneration times
An increase to fuel times (about 1/4th current value) would be best
Add a single spotter plane consumable for team play
You're decreasing the damage on a single strike, specifically the first strike that will always get through; and you're changing them to rely on multiple well placed strikes to do damage.
Also youll be punished for poor decision making by the longer Regeneration times
100% agree on the restoration. That should have been the 1st thing fixed
I agree-the bomb/torp damage is not as much of a problem as regen time is. Make the AA and planes lost mean something. More/harder hits definitely a plus but the regen time makes losses irrelevant. Also making a way for players to choose squadron sizes before launch via a pull and hold (charge) mechanic would go a long way in balancing flight times, DPM, and effectiveness of AA.
Charge mechanic, that's pretty cool
Appreciate the mandatory rant about secondaries and aircraft XP.
I'll never let that go 😄
Honestly, I didn’t play against too many carriers the other day when I came back. But not being spotted on the sea by planes is SO huge of a change, that was easily the most frustrating part of the game for me. Especially as a big destroyer fan, decent CV’s would just harass you all game and you couldn’t do anything, as your torps were spotted and the entire team would delete you when spotted. I think that’s the greatest W this update.
The damage does seem crazy, but I feel like I can deal with that so long as they don’t keep me spotted at all times
I was playing full aa la foudra and was attacked by a kaga for about 4 minutes and only shot down 12 of his planes when he flew right in to my flak and 700 dps aa
Had a 70 plane game in Chumphon on a Kaga. 3733 XP with 30K damage. Got GGs after and all I did was kill a DD/cap, then spent the next 12 minutes dodging CV bombs/torps. I’ll never touch 3733 XP in a Chumphon again and it was a 30K damage game
Didn’t de-plane him fyi. 🙃
Baha 30k huh, love it. That's some serious XP for a T6
100% agreed that plane regeneration is the problem. A carrier’s strongest asset is always its aircraft. This game currently treats the aircraft like an afterthought.
So in a way they have changed the mission of CVs and made them from spotters and support to classic DPMs
1000% these are damage monsters now. I have this Schlieffen in my mind...I 3 tapped him at the beginning of a match on Haven. 69k in a couple minutes, Absolute damage monsters
Honestly, it it wasnt for the Ostrogotland, I would have just taken a break. That DD has been my MVP. The AA on it is fierce without needing to really spec into it. Its helped to still enjoy playing while they adjust the carriers.
AMEN!!! Absolutely 100% spot on, sir.
Thank you kindly
CV spotting is real crap now. as a semi-main cv player i have no incentive trying to spot for my team anymore. sure i can light them up on the minimap but with the potatoes playing on a general basis it's just not being exploited by blue ships when i actually find red DDs. before they change the spotting to actually hard spot red ships i will not go out of my way wasting gas trying to find ships not actually threatening my carrier
I keep saying that the problem was the fact was that because when they looked at the data and interpret it to buff/nerf them, the data was going to be skewed horrendously because so many people abstained from playing them, so they were essentially blind in terms of the true nature of it.
Testers are questionable.
Lol yeah
Or nonexistent
Testers are just first in line to be ignored
@UnfairEnforcer That checks out to be fair.
testers r us -
yeah the carriers are over cooked and its good to see the response from WG.
the spotting rework is awesome!
I have been having a lot more success and as a result I have been having more fun in standard battles.
I think the spotting rework really helps new and less experience players by giving them more time to get into a good position and more time to get out of a bad one.
AA builds are more consistent and rewarding at Tier 3 4 5.....investing into AA at high Tiers is a big gamble.
Kirov is a beast
Interesting would've never thought of Kirov
I agree, infinite planes is the major problem. Makes all AA defences useless.
it's literally a drop in the ocean, AA does not work. I did a total AA build with max everything, 67 planes shot down. Just omg.
BUT they got the fuel right and spotting right.
It was the cali as well
67 is impressive!!! Prolly some great XP
I play solely on PC and i main CV’s and altough CV by their nature is a strong class on pc from what i have seen on legends its crazy how OP they are on PC i still have many ships i have to be carefull even aproaching like gouden leeuw, halland, petrapavlosk, minotaur since they can whipe squadrons with a few flack clouds so it still takes planning and preserving planes to be an effective CV but seeing 4 torps on hakuryu and insane plane regen makes all previous things i mentioned just an inconvienence
Float/attack planes can’t keep with incoming squadrons. Used to be a deterrent, but not anymore 😅
I think most of the conversation around CVs has been gaslighting people into agreeing that all CVs are like the LT CVs, without knowing what the other 21 CVs are like.
Also, think WG should have said what the main complaints of CVs were before the CV changes. Because unlike how people like it, whatever changes they make to CVs to make them more friendly to new players or lesser skilled CV players, will always been seen as a major buff by veteran/great CV players.
I've played most of the T5 carriers, am usually Top of the boards every game. Have also personally played Kaga, and Graf. Both performed quite well for a Non CV player. Since you brought it up tho 😄 I have been seeing tons of insane CVs matches at all tiers
LT ships are the most fun to show because they're the most OP! 9k torp alpha on Haky? I mean come on
@@DerkaGames Hak is like a flying Shimakaze
Also another thing, and I’m not a CC but I have played this game since it came out plus a few years on PC before that, it feels like WG, at least on Legends is removing the strategy and thinking parts of this game. You said this at the end of the video. They’re removing penalties for overextending like never running out of planes and they’re releasing these tiny maps where you can’t do any positioning and playing around with the spitting mechanics. It feels like they just want the buzzer to hit go and everyone rush each other like a football game then you die in 1 minute and play the next game
No thought required now for CVs, imo, totally agree
WG: Maybe they won't complain so much about potatoes if we make it a stew and turn up the heat.
@@DerkaGames yeah you can just endlessly spam attacks at full throttle and there’s basically no consequence. I still think the whole thing is dumb and don’t know why they thought it was necessary at all but if you wanted to do some balancing, maybe make CVs more stealthy, slightly increase the damage, slightly increase the aircraft recovery time and buff AA. The fuel mechanic does nothing. I’d bet not a single person has run out of fuel but hey, it is what it is
@@CamMcCulls-kx6zk all I’ve seen people asking for was more space and better spawns so you’re not spotted immediately. A 1/3rd of this game is allegedly map knowledge, stat knowledge like knowing spotting ranges etc, and positioning. When teams are spawned right on the other side of an island you can’t do anything like that. It just feels like a mobile game copy of WOWS. Just something you whip out while you’re getting your oil changed and goof off for a little bit
I agree with your changes. I have a partial AA build on my iowa, CV took a third of my health before I could even get in range to shoot another ship. You can’t really dodge and your already on cooldown for damgecon when you engage ships. How is this fair? Your going to loose a lot more players if WG keeps this up. Why should I even bother playing when I know I’m gonna get wrecked in a CV game? Have a great day!
The Plymouth is the best damage output that chews up aircraft. Base xp 3000 shot down 43 planes sunk four ships and I was the last ship to die on my team.
...this is not surprising, I mean it was expected... Remember Derka what I said before, this is what they do as they create a problem then they either sell the solution or take a long time to balance.
Played for the first time since the update on June 2nd, and i can't do anything with my carriers. Usually I play the Saipan whenever I wind up with free premium because it nets 500k a game, but that ship was great because you hit hard but have low numbers of planes so you must conserve, now I can't have fun flying around to get a good angle in the early game without running out of fuel, my drops do the same amount of damage as always, my spotting is useless. I hate every element of this. If you want new players to pick up carriers the ONLY thing you have to do is increase damage on tier 3 carriers. That's it. All tier 3 carriers are underwhelming and by the time you hit high tiers we don't need the game holding our hand saying "stay close to the action with this fuel mechanic" like, I know it takes longer to reach my target, that's penalty enough
Saipan is honestly the most disappointing CV I've played post Buff. Try Kaga, it's insane. Even Graf faired better. And 100% would rec Lexi and Parseval
Games been going down hill for a while. This has been the worst week I've ever known. Shame as I used to really enjoy it.
Hi Derka, can u make a list of some sort for what to use the 70% off coupon on?
T7
BB: Atlantico for brawlers
Constellation for snipers
CA: Wichita
CL: Plymouth
DD: I cannot remember what dub DDs there are?
T6: BB Nelson
CL: Munchen/Belfast
DD: Z35
T5
BB: Hyuga
CL: Duca
DD: T61
@@DerkaGames for the current meta, would atlantico be better or constellation? Cause CVs are now too OP
They don’t listen to ST..period. I’m sure plenty of them suggested this was broken AF..they don’t care
This sounds familiar
I have an AA built for many ships. And finally, it's shy. I have no problem with an initial update at all. CVs are finally playable. Not sure about the L tier. Maybe there needs a nerf.
I haven’t played since Tuesday cause I got back into Kingdom Come Deliverance and got distracted. But from what I’m seeing, I would call this entire rebalancing a wash and the whole thing should be scrapped. Idk why they even did it in the first place. Everything was generally fine
As a new player but CV familiar, a lot of the negative feedback seems to be against Premium or Legendary CVs. I maybe wrong.
At lower tiers, the play feels less enjoyable and team-effective. Because…
- It’s easy to get de-planed in any of the Russian CVs.
- Pushing up with limited fuel you get 2 shot by a slightly bold BB, or staying static results the same with bolder enemies.
- It’s boring monotonous up/return tunnel vision play (tier V and iii was not like this before).
The CV is known to be the prize, every game has an anti CV focused player. Most people are running fighter planes.
I’ve always meant to test speed. As it sounds total rubbish. No way a plane is doing 190kt and a ship doing 35 … a speed difference of 155 … more than x5 faster … lol doubtful you catch ships that fast.
On one hand the damage results are higher - unfairly it seems. But the fun is lower. And blow-out games are more frequent.
I’d need to test more of the various Tech Tree CVs over more time to see which actually feel good and which feel bad. For instance I avoided the Ranger and Implacable before, but they now feel effective.
I think: the additional bombs for the Ryujo and Weiser are much better - yet a wise DD will always out dodge them; the skip bomb one-bounce rule is fair. The spotting, I’m still working it out, but okay. (Like, as a ship, if it says “plane spotted” surely that should mean nobody actually has eyes & target on you?! And as the ship, how can you tell when the team has spotted a ship?)
Lower plane health and more planes - not sure I’m seeing a plus to this per se. It’s just more clear sky shots for ships - fair enough. You still need to pre drop with some CVs and certain well setup enemies.
Knowing which side of your team will fold has always been a lottery but you can no longer aid both sides of the map as a CV. I’ve seen some very aggressive CV play, but they often get blown away; and yet you still get some CVs run for the corner at the hint of loss.
My hot fix would be to lower damage of CV, and to increase the fuel a bit. Certain individual CVs need even more fixing I suspect.
I would rather take a restoration time increase to 90 seconds on my Shoukaku then take the dmg hit she is going to take rn 6100 per torp are you serious Lexington deals more damage with her torps now so what even is the point of playing Shoukaku.
?
No idea what that says. And not touched those ships.
Like I say, I’m on Tech Tree stuff and they’re a mixed bag.
Oddly enough. Whilst the Ryujo had been consistently getting me loss after loss, I reluctantly turned to the one premium I do have but never use - the slow Zuiho. It totally suits this current patch and had plenty matches near 100k damage.
So I stand by it, the patch needs looking at to see which ships it grossly buffs, and which ones it’s made a little too strong yet introduced some weird gameplay.
I looked at fuel range today. That seems to make a big difference and maybe explains some issues.
Would like to know what is your favorite class of ships to play.
Cruisers! Light or heavy. But honestly I play them all pretty equally (except cvs)
Is this the "thinking man's action game?" 🤣
Not for CV:s currently.😄
Alright badger calm down
I cannot remember if this is an official slogan of the game or of its just satire at this point
Is there a legitimate stat line that shows aircraft speed rendering surface ship AA less effective? Because I keep hearing that you can just fly through the AA and take less damage. Is there a way to measure that?
That's a super super good question, cause yeah I saw a similar comment
Yeah they do have a hotfix ready tomorrow, but it isn't really changing the Plane Restoration rate or damage. This game has really gone down hill.
I am fine with the plane regeneration speed it was to long before. Lets look at it this way if other ships say BBs had to reload 1 gun at a time, no one would play them as most BBs get reload a full solovo again faster the CVs get full squads, that along with better AA at higer tiers meet most CVs stayed at low tier 2-5 were AA is crap for most ships. In 20 games 14 times or of 20 I see a CV most times the tier 3, but the 5 too so AA building is a good option.
But now with this higer regeneration now CVs are now showing up in the higher tiers, something tier 7 and up players never had to fear to much, so now like every tier below them they now have to think about do I run AA. What happened is now Tier 7 and up players are now facing what lower tier ones do.
As for damge to we say nerf BBs because they can do that to? No we do not hear that as much but if CVs get any buff its the end of the game its busted, nerf.
Exactly what I said ..how does this get through testing
It's a valid question!!! Like wtf
Nerf is not enough. Seems like a piecemeal start.. add an option to opt out of CV games. Start there.
No reason for carrier to close with enemy , intentionally stays in back as the air wing is its weapon😂
Carriers should have a maximum of 60 planes. After that they should be a dead ship.
Also I hate the new clear skies, it’s 40 planes now which means you have to get focused by a carrier which also sucks. Well at least WG is going in the right direction
Most ironically, they call themselves "ministry of balance".
Lmao
Just give the planes a little more health and make it so the carriers only have the amount of planes they historically have.
Just need all blue team of fries and Chester’s😊
GrannyGilbert from the gameplay here, Gg 400k is crazy
I think DD's should have limited # of torps, Cruisers and BB's should have limited # of shells... THEN we got a game
How do you revitalize a class that no one plays? Buff the crap out of it, and have the nerf patch ready to go… wargamming did exactly what they intended
Lmao
I would not mind the nerfs if they weren't so heavy, like 6100 dmg a torp on Shoukaku you know the line that should have extremely good trops now Lexington does more damage then Shoukaku does with her torps hell if you don't upgrade Shoukaku RYUJOU THE T5 SHIP does more TORP DMG THEN SHOUKAKU DOES!!! She needed a nerf not a dismantling.
I'm not sold on the change to spotting. I think a lack of spotting from knowledgeable teammates was already a bit of a plague on the game experience as the player base has continued to devolve.
The new spotting is hogwash and the fuel limit needs to be increased or gotten rid of. Carriers should be able to spot away from the action. Not saying border humping is good but never in history did a carrier willingly sail towards an enemy fleet within 15 km.
It’s kinda relistic with planes being op
they never play live and show this kind of result,a challange.
Check out PG Rapidz’s stream clips and say that again
@@UnfairEnforcer 200k?? Right??
I find your lack of faith disturbing
@@DerkaGames prove it... As simple as that.. I think "record" say 400+k damage, but see how much you can muster
actually they didn't nerf Damage they just reduced accuracy and number of bombs by one but up the damage to the bombs so it's just going to be a wash and be the same thing as it is now
Potato poTATto
It made Musashi worthless. Can’t even play that ship now.
Naw. It ain't working. Just played a game in the Wichita and I got harassed by a Graf Zepplin (or whatever it's called) and I barely made it out after killing it with 4k hp left. Aircraft still are WAY TOO POWERFUL.
Nerf doesn't drop till Monday June 3rd
They don’t belong in the game period bro.
@@DerkaGames oh ok I thought it was already in
Even with 100 aa rating and defensive fire active , your still getting wrecked.
No doubt, I have proof lol
This game is cooked
Not sure I liked a single change, not even the fuel, which is a shame as I was happy for WG to Change it up but basically I don’t play t the moment. Zero fun and I don’t see the patch changing that
Am loving it 😂😂👏
Enjoy it while it lasts!
Restoration time????
Give us player controlled AA with ships that have DP guns....
How would that work? On controller
I played a lot less this week because of cvs. Thank God they nerfing them tomorrow
You should be punished for dropping torps that high altitude, you should be punished for throwing away planes recklessly, my suggestion is reducing max fuel the less planes you have.
Carrier rework just made the game unplayable
First comment so some kid can’t say first 😎 good video even tho I’m watching it right now
Not to memtion the amount of mid and high tier ships that have so little AA its laughable.
Yo Derka you should stream pls
Sadly don't have the time anymore 😞
Horrible update!!! Boo nerf AA into the ground. Don’t make sky cancer an epidemic!
So WG just stopped testing update? I guess they dont have anyone gets paid that actually knows how to play the game. Either that, or the people calling the shots dont care about gameplay. Both are extremely concerning.
Unsure, thats a valid question, what did the tests show? Lol
Carriers are where they should be now - monsters of the sea. Just like they were in WW2
Nerf it, then cv player complain and they nerf aa never end cycle, just like with vanilla wows carriers and subs should never have been a thing or CV should have been left like they were upon release where CVs had fighter wings and could actively counter each other, and they had limited wings. Also couldn’t launch if deck was on fire.
Im extending my break.
Can't say I blame you. I watched a parseval dismantle our team tonight. After he 3 tapped my Kaga. AA doesn't matter lol CVs are so broken
Day XXXIII of asking for the lexington review(for how many apples would you make the review? I will ship them to you, no matter the cost)
Pay me in apples huh? 🤔 I can't say I'm not intrigued
@@DerkaGames then in cinemon rolls?
My thoughts... is to stop playing a game that is not nearly as fun as it used to be. That's what i'm going to do,
Nothing wrong with that! Do what makes you happy =)
Cv's suck period😂
Lmao
I'm a skilled CV main and there is 2 other factors that needs to be address that drastically altered the way all CV's are now played.
1) spotting is no longer an incentive for CV's which means hyper focusing on farming damage is.
2) something skilled CV's did before the update but now the new mechanics forces every CV to play closer to the action.
Before the update skilled CV players would always play as close to the enemy to achieve high damage games. Now I see in almost every game CV's moving up allowing them to increase their damage.
The drastic method of play change was entirely the point of the update, they address both of your points almost directly in the update post.
Spotting was changed to increase the value of destroyers, and keep the carriers from being able to just sit on top of them until they're dead
Fuel was added so that CVs would move closer to the battlefield thus making them more vulnerable as well as to allow "alternative battle modes" as an option to them
You're seeing carriers trying to get closer to "damage farm" but it's really just a by product of the fuel having a massive limit to their battle impact. I'm a huge fan of both changes personally as the CV still gives you map awareness via the minimap, without fear of being farmed as a result from every cruiser in the game.
On PC, isn't "spotting damage" a thing?
They nerd will to rebuild and master mechanic but spamming he and this carriers on steriods
Nah, its all wrong what we need is Cruise Missiles, that strike 100% of the time, and do 100% damage..!! Get these pesky matches over in 30 seconds, surly thats bedt, why bither using tactics, and team play, so totally pointless. (SARCASM) if you weren't already on tnis page!
Cruise missiles?!!!!!!! REEEEEEE
Testers were high as F*@% 🚬 😗💨
😆😅
Ahoi. The real problem with carriers is still untouched. Its the problem that its player-driven on one side and totally random and passive on the other side. If they are not able to make it work they should get rid if those fckn CV!
BTW I want to puke when you complain about the randomness of plane accuracy! Play Battleships and you learn to pray. I'm so sick of all that BS
the update is great, it makes carriers feel like a boat worth playing, earning silver and exp. sadto hear they going to nerf it back into uselessness or running out of planes, tier 7 ur planes just disapear in first attack wave. last update they buffed all french BBs and ppl getting cits for days, why no one rebalance that instead ? keep carriers fun and useful not a constant deficit of it. maybe they should only "balance" certain tiers and specific stats - or boost aa slightly. chumphon AA used to be great, and it was updated long ago into uselessness, the AA jus tickles planes for 15 minutes its awful.
The update is great if you like carriers, which I don’t. I can make a reasonable effort to defend myself against all ship types apart from carriers now. If a carrier player decides to focus you at the start, you are finished. If an another ship decides to focus me, at least I can do something about it.
I will agree that CVs were pretty boring before. But now? They're absolutely insane. WOWSL's XP world record (the highest XP ever earned, in 5 years time, over the course of every single game played, ever) was nearly broken in a few days. Missed it by less than 100 XP. What does that tell us? Lol
I believe that the cv’s are fair. Everyone is complaining ab them. All they need to do is fix the AA, but not change cv’s
I'll give you a bottle a water to throw on me and I'll hook up a hosepipe to the tap you use on you and let's see who comes out the worse. The cvs are totally broken they can just keep throwing planes into any amount of AA because they always have another full squadron ready to go, there is absolutely nothing anyone can do and no consequences for the carrier like every other person has. They couldn't be any further away from fair if they tried.
Nope. Some ships have practically no AA. I don’t want to playing the same ships all the time just because they have good AA, for example light American cruisers, Minotaur, Friesland etc.
I don't usually get in the comments and argue but....well how about this. If CVs were indeed fair, would Wargaming have rushed a hot patch nerf out in a week? 😄
Agreed Tom. Like I love Mino and Dp7 but dont wanna play them all the time. Imagine playing ODIN during this update. Literally just a floating hulk of HP
@@DerkaGames Probably not Derka! I hope they get it it right whatever they do. I don't want to be boosting my AA and then loosing out on other ship specifications that I would prefer to have.