Perhaps Grindelwald wasn't ever the true owner of the Elder Wand, but that doesn't mean that it didn't decide to switch to Dumbledore when he defeated Grindelwald. After all, its loyalty was to strength. I see no problem with it accepting a new wizard as its owner regardless of who was wielding it at the moment. For that matter, Draco may not have ever been chosen by the Elder Wand. It could very well be that it had no master until Harry's sacrifice in the Forbidden Forrest. That kind and amount of strength would almost certainly catch the Elder Wand's attention.
This was my first thought. There's no rule I'm aware of that you have to "win" a wand from its rightful owner for it to change allegiance, especially with a wand as unsentimental as the Elder Wand is described as being. Voldemort was also the much more powerful wizard than Harry according to every official source. Considering that, the idea of a loyal Elder Wand would create a giant plot hole surrounding the final duel and Voldemort's inability to best Harry, an average wizard with a normal wand. At least until and unless it's confirmed somewhere that losing Horcrux pieces actually does diminish the magical power of his main body, for which I'm not aware of any evidence other than fan assumptions.
@@Gaius_Claudius sure, Voldemort had magical might and powerful spells at his disposal, but he had no strength of character and very few, if any, people truly loyal to him. He only had a leadership position because he had things to offer people that submitted to him. Unlike Harry, Voldemort never inspired people to follow him because of who he was, but rather what they believed he could do for them. People mainly joined his side either because they were too scared to resist or because they wanted a piece of the pie and thought he was their best bet to getting themselves some power.
I like the theory that the Elder Wand has actually _never_ changed allegiance... because its allegiance is to Death. Whenever it kills, in whomever's hand, it is serving its true master.
Good point. And since Voldemort could not kill Harry, the wand began to betray Voldemort and not cast his spells correctly. Thus handicapping Voldemort as he tried to kill Harry after he awoke from his apparent death in the forest.
@@FTTLOMS Or, was it already betraying Voldemort when it "failed" to correctly deliver his killing curse (effectively saving Harry's life)? After all, Voldemort never actually became the wand's true owner at any point. Was the Elder wand just acting out of spite, or... can such a severe curse only be executed by the one whom a wand has chosen? Not as steeped in the lore as many here are, so just asking.
@@PressRecord777 I think that’s a great point. It’s all just fun speculation. No need to know everything. And it just occurred to me that under the idea that the wand’s only true master was death, Voldemort was the only wizard in known history to fail to deliver a killing blow with the Avada Kedavra curse. Therefore the wand was just never going to obey him even if he had killed the previous owner. So perhaps Voldemort’s ultimate fate was sealed by Lilly Potter on the night he attacked the Potter family. Prior to Voldy it was Dumbledore. And he was not a killer so perhaps it just obeyed his other magic because of his sheer strength and skill. Prior to that it was Grindelwald’s and he was a killer who never had a killing spell fail. This is probably way more thought than JK Rowling put into this, haha.
@@FTTLOMS True. Probably why most engineers wouldn't make great fiction writers-they'd keep making plot revisions on finding holes or inconsistencies, and the manuscript would never find its way to a publisher. 🙃
What Rowling said does close the plot hole, yes, but likely not in the way you think. The Elder Wand differs from your typical wand in that it has no loyalty. It switches allegiance with whoever the strongest may be. And such a wand that can switch "true owners" on a whim may be liberal in its definition of what power and "besting someone" is. It could be as obvious as killing, as mundane as disarming, or even as underhanded as outwitting its current owner and stealing it from them. The latter may be cowardly, but, to the Elder Wand, an owner careless enough to allow it to be taken doesn't deserve its allegiance, and it would likely rather side with the one who successfully stole it.
Well my understanding is that the elder wand has been stolen that many times, dishanded, that it probably sounds like a rather stiff elderly letter of law ministry of magic employee/house elf if were to be given a voice and then ask the user to give itself a rather nice box with fifty intellectual and raw power and brawn trials just to see whom is worthy of wielding it to it's fullest potential without going announcing you've got a bigger wand that happens to be somewhat powerful.
It would be fairly straightforward to argue that if the Elder Wand switches allegiance to "the strongest", then it seems obvious that it would inevitably end up with Dumbledore. He was, after all, widely considered to be the most powerful wizard alive. Perhaps you don't even have to duel the previous owner at all, as long as it is clear that you are stronger than the previous owner. It is unclear to me if Voldemort was ever the most powerful wizard, since Dumbledore was alive for quite some time during his life and only died when several of Voldy's horcruxes had already been destroyed, taking parts of his soul (and magical power) with them. So why does the wand end up with Harry in the end? Perhaps one of the other comments is correct and Harry's sacrifice in the forest shows such strength of conviction that the Elder Wand was impressed by it and switched allegiance? Who can say.
Consider this. What if the elder wand lies outside wand lore? What if the elder wand shows loyalty to those who possess Peverall blood? The wand may have betrayed Grindelwald because Dumbledore may be more closely related to the Peverell family than Grindelwald. If the elder wand is a family heirloom and shows more loyalty to someone who possesses more family blood, then maybe it never bonded to Voldemort because he had so very little of his soul left. In addition Harry possessed two other deathly hallows which are also inheritances from the Peverell family. This would mark him and prove to the wand that he has a stronger blood bond to the magical item and therefore the wand would obey Harry over Voldemort
I REALLY like this theory and it makes perfect sense, im sure i read somewhere that someone in dumbledores bloodline married into the perverell family which would also lean towards loyalty to dumbledore if your theory is correct, i also think that while dumbledore and grindlewald dueled (grindlewaald had the elder wand at this point) it was the act of grindlewaald dueling to kill and dumbledore dueling to protect that also shows loyalty and leans nicely into the fact that dumbledore had a lot of power and strength being that he later says to Neville in philosophers stone “it takes a lot to stand up to your enemies but even more to stand up to your friends” so it takes even more for dumbledore to stand up to someone he loved after resisting it for YEARS he finally did and won, idk how you could possibly have a more strength defining conflict between wizards so what shows more strength than that, it also similarly works with harry and voldys final duel too, harry spelling everything out, had just died spreading lily’s protection and his own to everyone on the good side, he offered voldy a way out and still he refused to learn, thats an immense amount of strength and wisdom beyond their years, two traits dumbledore and harry shared hence i love your theory SO much!!🙌🏻✨🙌🏻
JK Rowling's qutoe seems to say the opposite of the theory presented here - Grindlewald, Dumbl;edore et al WERE the owners of the EW because the latter knew no personal loyalty, only to strength. And all those inbetween were strong. And yes, disarming such a strong wizard counts as being stronger. So no, there is no plot hole.
ACTUALLY, and few people know this, Voldermort had just found out that Chuck Norris was on the Hogwarts Express and heading to the school. Voldermort knew it would be much better to let Harry win...
You are incorrect, the train broke down so he was carrying the Express up from London. And he had Xander Harris with him to tell people to get off the tracks and back into the cars.
Being Death's wand, my headcannon has always been that, an old owner needed to die or that a new owner needed to kill with the wand for it to switch allegiance. Sending a soul to its creator, so to speak, was the price of admission. Once holding the wand, it didn't matter who, why, or how; just that you summoned Death officiated the transfer. Tom's soul was in pieces, with Death coming to collect pieces rather than the whole with the destruction of each horcrux, creating a loophole of partial ownership and partial transfer. Meaning the wand didn't know who had more claim, Harry or Tom, given that Harry may have killed more of Tom than Tom had left to himself.
Yeah I've heard this before. Voldemort couldn't use the wand properly since he always had 1/7 of his soul remaining and he was very close to death. So no way the most powerful wand would side with someone who has one foot in the grave already.
If you remember the 1st movie, the shop owner says the wand picks its owner. That is the bases of all theories. It was obvious that though the wand was in many wizards' possession it never truly excepted them. It is only Harry whom gets total acceptance.
Who could say if Gregorovitch was the true owner pf the elder wand realistically? Its all speculation so I'll stick with yhe books explanation which fits better than any theory I've listened to.
That is a very good explanation and very likely more correct than any I could think up. However, the wand was the property of the oldest brother whos line lead directly to Harry. He was the last and was master of the wand all along. It was taken by murder while it master slept. It never truly past outside the family line.
You are discussing the biggest problem with the movie, aren’t you? Even though the last two movies are “Deathly Hallows” that part of the story line was written out of the movies, wasn’t it? The movies stuck to “Horcruxes” and a wand fight, didn’t they? And it wasn’t a time to tell the story issue, which makes the screenplay change even more sad, doesn’t it? Rollings wrote a far more interesting story conclusion, didn’t she?
There does not seem to be many actual duels in the life span of the Elder wand (after the original Perverall? brother, does it? So,,,,,,,Harry beats you know who because by the time they duel, you know who was too weak (maybe) to beat Harry (who is using a (stolen?, borrowed?) wand himself)? And he was using a wand that was being used against its rightful owner. Maybe I'm missing something somewhere in this post. The books address the issue in much more detail than the shows and it makes much more sense. The duel between Harry and V is much more gripping. I read it often. So thanks for the post, but I think I'm sticking to the books for now.
How does anyone, except for JKR, know that Gregorovich was the wands true owner? How did the old wand maker obtain it? That has never come to light. Keep in mind that Harry sacrificed himself, setting up the same protection on everyone as did his mother on him. It's why Harry tells him that his spells will no longer stick. On top of that, Tom stole it and didn't best Dumbledore, even though, it is assumed, that he used it for dark magic before he struck Harry down in the forest. Albus, though, supposedly bested Gellert in a duel, so he would have been able to utilize its full power. Since JKR stated that the wand has a loose allegiance, Draco would have been able to use it too, until Harry bested him. It's like Harry said, does the wand know its last owner was defeated by him?
There are some posibilities: 1) The wand wasn't the Elder Wand. It was just another powerful wand. They did talk about this in the book. They just came to the conclusion it was the same wand, and they were wrong. 2) The wand was made by a Peverell. Both Voldemort and Harry was a Peverell. It is possible the 3th brother, who made the wand, had put some kind of failsafe on the wand because he knew his brothers also was very powerful... aka a Peverell can't kill a Peverell with it. It would match with the power of blood which is talked about serveral times in the book (Petunia, Lily etc) 3) The wand could be the Elder Wand BUT Voldemorts soul had a part in Harry when he tried to kill him aka he was outsmarted and therefore lost its alliance at that point.
@@ms.honiqualisha4529 But it case 3) The Wand would has shifted to Harry because he outsmart him when Voldemort killed the horcrux. So basicly the same outcome as the main story.
I LOVE this theory! It always bothered me that it was as simple for Harry to win it as simply wrestling Draco's wand away. Not even the actual Elderwand and not magically defeat. Disarming alone doesn't sit much better with me, because that way every time someone is disarmed, they would basically lose their wand's allegiance!
Interestingly the Pervell Blood flows through both their veins. Odd though that the Pervell's were subsumed into families with Death type names Potter's Field (Although Linfield of Strithcomb [sp] was known as the Potterer for pottering around his garden) The Gaunts, makes one wonder about the Bones family?
Question: if Dumbledore wasn't the true owner, and only the Elder Wand can mend other wands, and it is commonly accepted that Hagrid keeps his mended wand concealed inside that pink umbrella, how was Dumbledore able to successfully mend it without being the Elder Wand's true master?
Could be the umbrella was holding the pieces together, so the wand wasn't mended. If I recall correct Ollivander said to Hagrid not to use a broken wand. Hagrid did kind of try to hide the umbrella and he admited he still had the pieces... with all Hagrids slip ups it would be weird he never had sliped up and told the wand was whole again.
@@Rebslager The thing is Hagrid can do magic with the umbrella. When Harry and Ron use wands that are damaged they don't work. If the umbrela only contains pieces of a broken wand how can Hagrid successfully cast spells?
@@patrickdematosribeiro1845 It is the weak spot for my theory. But if you look closely it doesn't function well.... He tried to Dudley into a full pig. Not just give him a tail. So it malfunctioned as I see it. And nicely put together pieces in a tight space aka an umbrella handle might have been better than tape or magic. It is all just guess' though.
@@Rebslager True, the transfiguration didn't work. However, transforming a human into an animal is very difficult, especially using a non-verbal spell. So I am not sure whether it was the wand's fault or whether the spell was simply too difficult for Hagrid who only has three years of education at Hogwarts. In the book Hagrid casts some spells successfully, for example causing a bot to move by magic so he doesnn't have to row.
@@patrickdematosribeiro1845 It is true. I also made the pumpkins grow faster. I would assume they are easier spells. Also Dumbledore did read muggle news. So maybe the umbrella, a muggle solution, was better than weak magic and magic tape to keep a magic wand together. But who knows what is the truth in this case 😉
Even if that theory is true. Voldemort already lost to Harry to the point he feared Harry. He did all he did to basically win ownership to a wand that only cared about strength. Not to mentioned that Harry told what Snape's sacrifice to all before Voldemort and Harry's final duel. Thus putting fear and doubt into Voldemort's heart.
Yea he was scared shitless of harry by the end. Voldemort knew himself as immensely powerful and was clinging to the idea that he was the best but he knew from personal experience that harry could rock him just as bad as Dumbledore ever could with 1/10th of the experience while using elementary spells. He rationalized himself as at least equal to Dumbledore because though he feared him, there was no prophecy specifically stating that dumbledore could end him. Dumbledore and he are pretty evenly matched in doing a bunch of fancy magic to fight each other while harry shows up and just basically overpowers him. Harry survived the first killing curse and was able to kill possessed quirrel due to his mother's ancient magic but he killed slytherin's basilisk with a sword and destroyed his first horcrux at 12. Learned to cast a full patronus at 13, which most adult wizards cannot do, and even when they can they cannot do it as powerfully as his. His very first corporeal patronus wards off dozens maybe hundreds of dementors. At this point his disarming spell alone is enough to knock a full grown man across the room and incapacitate him as well. It functions as a stunning spell due to the sheer oomph behind it. At 14 he survived the triwizard tournament (even with help it was a feat) then when he fought voldemort through raw power and force of will won the priori incantatum and made voldemort's wand regurgitate all of it's previously cast spells. Voldemort never forgot that. Voldemort was lucky that he didn't have his curse reflected that time as well. At 15 he went toe to toe with a bunch of death eaters and would have helped dumbledore as he was kickin the crap out of voldemort if Dumbledore hadn't physically restrained him from doing so. This same year he also teaches a defense against the dark arts class so effectively that he has completely average students preforming advanced spells that most of their parents probably can't even do. He comes back to life after a second killing curse in book 7 and then walks through the great hall casually blocking curses possibly including unblockable killing curses since because huge balls and once again snipes voldemort's killing curse out of the air with a disarming spell he learned in his 2nd year and bounces the curse back into voldemort killing him. At the point of the final confrontation Voldemort has no idea how this guy keeps coming back to life and whipping him but he knows that the prophecy said harry would have the power to defeat him and has experienced that defeat firsthand multiple times, sometimes on technicalities and other times through Harry's raw power. The books make it clear the prophecy is alluding to the power of love and friendship but it is also pretty clear that Harry is death on legs. Voldemort doesn't fear the power of love. He fears the terminator that has repeatedly kicked his butt one way or another for the past 17 years. I think Harry was basically written as being as naturally gifted and moreso than voldemort or dumbledore either one were. They had great abilities combined with great effort while Harry was just not inclined to an interest in academics nor afforded the opportunity to learn due to circumstances. But he seems to capitalize best on his latent abilities when traumatic circumstances arise.
So if the Elder Wand recognizes the strongest wizard as it's master then hiding it in Dunbledore's sarcoficase until Harry's passing then the power of the wand would not be broken as suggested in the Deathly Hollows. It would transfer it's alegence to any powerful wizard of witch who found it.
I just want to see the Dumbledore and Grindlewald duel portrayed in film properly. The Order of the Phoenix duel was pretty good, but in the books Dumbledore and Voldemort are apparating around and it reminds me of the scene in fantastic beasts, when Dumbledore uses apparition while facing Creedence/Aurelious in his obscurial form. I always wondered why wizards and witches weren’t using apparition during their duels. The Dumbledore vs Grindlewald duel could look incredible, if anyone cared enough to make it so..
By Rowlings diffinition the disarming would have been sufficient as disarming is not needed. Those that seek the wand are typically more likely/ willing to kill but it is not needed. However here's a train of thought to consider: The propechy notes Voldermort selecting his equal who may one day kill him from parents who have trice defied him. There is a quote in the books where it is brought up Harry has done it more and as an underage wizard. There is a link between wizards and wands, they can "weigh" and choose an individual.... Did Voldermort ever truly own the elder wand or would it have passed him over waiting for the teenager to claim it that repeatedly got the better of Voldermort? Voldermort only weilds magic he thinks is impressive, spreads fear or can one tap someone. He was not nearly as skilled as Dumbledore or Grindewald. He is motivated by fear and his own insecurities. Driven by it. A slave to it. Would that pass as strength - especially if he can't seem to deal with some underage witches and Wizards? Food for though.....
Interesting, but the novel clearly states how the Elder wand was won down to Harry and Ollivander explains wandlore to Harry. Clearly disarming or pulling a wand from someone's hand apparently is enough. The final line when Harry and Voldemort cast their spells is that the Elder wand returned to its "master at last". The wand would not kill Harry because it recognized him as its owner. End of story.
No. Voldemort is the superior wizard. Not that Harry was talented for his age. Just that Voldemort had decades more experience, time to gather a powerbase, more experience in leading(loosely) an army. Given time and dedication could Harry have opposed The Dark Lord as an equal? Perhaps, but at the point of their confrontation... the simple answer is no.
@@someonlinedouche6992 Unfortunately voldemort no longer had access to anywhere close to the decades of experience he should have been able to call upon due to his destroyed horcruxes, besides which the elder wand would never have worked anywhere near 1/10th of the supposed power it would display for a true owner for voldemort as any wand voldemort would have used would either be destroyed by priori incantatem (his own wand would just do the magic light show version of priori incantatem. The elder wand is an exception to the destruction rule it seems.) So yeah harry can take on voldemort for the 3rd time that year just as he could 6, 4, and three years ago as voldemort as brilliant as he was never quite comprehended the complexities of the foundational magics apart from fear.
When it comes to the Elder Wand, it seems to be a misconception that the wand is ever truly owned by a given which or wizard at any point in time. Ollivander states, "the wand chooses the wizard" but given the nature of the Elder wand, it seems rather to choose and own whichever wizard will serve as the most suitable and promising host in order to accomplish its ends. It may remain faithful to its possessor for a time but only until another comes along, whether by chance or destiny, which proves to be a successor to the former as well as the next link in the bloody chain the wand has forged since its creation.
But Dumbledore did great things with the Elder Wand, great things against Voldemort. Maybe she is talking about true power. Power from within. Voldemort and all the others sought the wand to be their power. The wand sought people who had power within themselves which it could tap into. It was either looking for symbiosis or maybe only looking to leech. That would cover any plot holes.
Here's a different point of view: The wand belonged to Gregorovitch but switched allegience to Grindelwald because Gregorovitch wasn't intelligent enough to hide his wand in a good place and Grindelwald was sneaky enough to find it and take it. Since the wand chooses the wizard, if the Elder wand was 'tired' of Gregorovitc, it could very well have done something to help it be passed on to the next wizard - perhaps hoping for a wizard that was more "promising". After all, we don't know all the ins and outs of that wand so it might not just be violence that changes its allegience, since it likes strength, being owned by a wizard dying of an illness, curse, or declining health could make it decide to help along the process of getting another wizard. And this could be why it's known to be taken by violence and death.
The problem with this theory is that Dumbledore also wielded the elder wand very well, like the time he tried to drown Voldemort or the time he was controlling all that fire.
Regarding this theory the Elder Wand might not even have had a clear ownership at the moment of the final duel with Harry. I don't think losing parts of his soul made Voldemort weaker in the common sense as the parts of his soul that were destroyed had already been gone from his close vicinity for decades and it didn't influence him at all. But it is clear that Harry had "murdered" a part of Voldemort by destroying the diary of Tom Riddle, so he already had "bested" Voldemort on a certain level. But he was not the only one. The ring had been destroyed by Dumbledore, the locket was destroyed by Ron, the cup of Hufflepuff was destroyed by Hermione, the diadem was destroyed by Goyle, Nagini was killed by Neville and the part in Harry was killed by Voldemort without ever "besting" Harry truely. So all of the mentoined had equal claims to the ownership of the wand. Ok, Dumbledores claim might have realy been passed on to snape who was then killed by Nagini, which in turn would have not gone to Voldemort (I wonder how Voldemort ever thought he might become the true owner by not killing Snape himself, of course even if Voldemort's theory would have been correct, Nagini would have become the true owner...) but to Nagini, who we know (but Voldemort might have never been aware of) to have been a real, human minded being, and so maybe Neville would have been able to get two parts of the claim on the ownership by killing Nagini, but nevertheless the theory stands that at that point the Elder Wand wasn't even sure about its true owner anymore.
"However, the Elder Wand knows no loyalty except to strength." "It will only go where the power is. So, if you win, then you've won the wand." "And also it attracts wizards like Voldemort who confuse being prepared to murder with strength." Doesn't that mean the wand simply didn’t acknowledge Voldermort's strength and therefore it wasn't loyal to him?
Sorry that my comment is so lengthy, but it tears apart the theory in this video. Short version: Basically, Harry's skill, strength AND courage combined would make Harry seem like the BEST candidate to master the Elder Wand, even when compared to the likes of Draco, Snape, Dumbledore, Grindelwald and Gregorovich. The Wand would see Harry as perfect while Draco, Snape, Dumbledore, Grindelwald and Gregorovich ALL were decently strong but missing something crucial. My 5 theories below explain how this would be possible. Long Version: There are 2 (maybe 3-5) holes in this theory: 1. Even with Harry's sacrifice in the forest, there were still 2 pieces of Voldemort's soul left (Nagini and main body Voldemort). This means Harry had NOT defeated Voldemort yet and the Elder Wand would recognize this fact. Also, with the Elder Wand only being loyal to strength, it likely would NOT respect Harry's sacrifice unless the sacrifice defeated the FINAL part of Voldemort's soul. The Elder Wand would likely want to see if Voldemort had the strength to continue DESPITE Harry's sacrifice, which he did indeed do (or attempt to do). Having not given up when he was hurt by Harry's sacrifice, the Elder Wand would have recognized Voldemort's inner fortitude as strength and retained loyalty. This track of thinking would have made it IMPOSSIBLE for Harry to be the master of the wand and therefore unable to win against Voldemort. Basically, if Voldy was the Master at ANY POINT in the final battle, Harry would have stood zero chance against him. 2. The Elder Wand probably DID shift loyalty to Grindelwald, but not because it deemed Grindelwald worthy. Rather, it probably changed loyalty to spite Gregorovich (Sp?). This means Grindelwald had 99%, but not 100%, mastery and loyalty of the Elder Wand. Dumbledore and Grindelwald were considered EQUALS in skill and strength before Grindelwald EVER had the Elder Wand. So, if Grindelwald had 100% mastery of the wand, then Dumbledore would have stood no chance against him. That 1% hesitation on the part of the Elder Wand would have been the ONLY chance Dumbledore had. The Elder Wand probably sensed that both wizard had equal skill and strength, but that Dumbledore was fully ready to fight in honest combat DESPITE being at a disadvantage against an otherwise equal wizard. The Elder Wand probably recognized Dumbledore's willingness to fight in open combat despite the odds as being mentally stronger than a wizard (Grindelwald) who had to steal the wand and a wizard (Gregorovich) who was careless enough to let the wand be stolen. In this case, Dumbledore was the true master of the wand. 3. (Possible hole): Dumbledore was never careless with the wand. However, the Elder Wand had 2 very good reasons to doubt Dumbledore's ability to keep being its master. First was the foolish choice to put on a ring that Dumbledore HAD TO HAVE KNOWN was cursed simply out of sentimentality. Also, the Elder Wand probably recognized the other Hallow (the Resurrection Stone). The Wand knew that those who seek the stone's power do so typically to bring the dead back to life out of longing for loved ones. The Wand would NOT respect such weakness, but would still retain loyalty to Dumbledore until someone forced the Wand away from him. The Wand would also be aware that the curse is killing Dumbledore and therefore a change is coming. Second would be Dumbledore's choice to drink the cursed potion to get the fake locket. The Wand would see the purposeful weakening of himself (Dumbledore) only to end in failure as a 2nd screw up. With these 2 conditions in mind, it becomes possible that the Elder Wand would settle for a master disarming Dumbledore instead of killing just so it can get away from a master it sees as basically a moron. The Wand probably also let Draco become master with just disarming because it recognized Draco's ambition and potential strength while, at the same time, logically knowing Draco could not win otherwise due to difference in experience and strength between Dumbledore and Draco. So the Wand had to choose between a moron (in it's eyes) who is dying and losing strength vs. a youngling who, while weak, had great potential and was still brave enough to face Dumbledore in some capacity. If the wand is loyal only to strength (be it raw strength or better strategy), then Draco would be the better bet. Once it chose disarming as a valid way to change loyalty, the Wand would then probably allow this again for Harry. 4. (Possible hole): Snape being the Wand's master by killing Dumbledore probably would not count. Dumbledore and Snape PLANNED for Snape to be the one to kill him. This means the wand would not see Snape as having forcibly taken Dumbledore's life and therefore, from a strength perspective, would not view this as a win for Snape. Also, if my third theory is true, the wand would have already lost some loyalty to Dumbledore before Snape and Dumbledore even came up with their plan and therefore would have seen Snape as just a follower of Dumbledore and therefore only a follower of an owner it was already starting to doubt. This eliminates Snape as ever being the master. 5. (Possible hole): Related to points 1 and 3. The Wand viewed Harry's use of the Resurrection Stone differently than it would Dumbledore's use. Harry was not a fool who gave in to a moment of weakness. Harry was using the Stone to strengthen his resolve to die to weaken his greatest foe. The Wand would recognize this as strength, both for the fortitude and because it would, effectively, kill Harry. The Wand would respect this since the entire point of all 3 Hallows is to lure people to death somehow. Then, when Harry comes back to life, the Wand would respect Harry even more because Harry made the hard choice to return rather than the easy choice to move on, which the Wand would recognize as strength as well as factoring in Harry forcibly taking Draco's Wand via disarming, which it would allow since it allowed Draco to do the same with Dumbledore. The Wand would weigh all that against Voldemort, who NEVER won the wand in the first place from Draco AND who it would view as weak to avoid death, which is the Wand's original purpose. This would cause the Wand to choose Harry, hence making it possible for Harry to win.
the biggest problem with this theory is that there’s a moment in the 7th book that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Harry is in fact the true master of the Elder Wand… and that moment takes place in the Forbidden Forest after Voldemort uses the killing curse on Harry they both are knocked unconscious and when Voldemort wakes up he asks if Harry is dead Narcissa lies and says he is dead and feeling so much joy that he finally killed his foe Voldemort uses the Cruciatus Curse on Harrys “lifeless” body and Harry stated that he felt absolutely nothing, and let’s rewind to the 4th book in the graveyard Voldemort uses the Cruciatus Curse on Harry there as well and Harry described it as the most painful feeling he’d ever experienced in his life, the only difference between the two times Voldemort uses that curse on Harry is the Wand he uses to cast the spell… one Wand refused to inflict any pain on its true master
The Elder wand just choose the most powerful wizard around for owner. Grindelwald was more powerful than Gregorovitch, so Elder wand served to him, despite he just stolen it. After that, Dumbledore beat him in their famous duel, so he became the Elder wand new master. After Dumbledore fall form the tower, her loyality may differ somewhere between Draco, Snape and Harry. Maybe Snape, because he is very talented wizard. When Vodemort get the wand, he was been recognized as powerful dark wizard so he became her true owner. This is where his disintegrating soul comes into play as a result of the destroyed Horcruxes. He confuses this weakness with Elder wand loyality, or perhaps the wand actually refuses to serve a wizard with a crumbling soul? After his Avada Kedavra killing curse fails to actually kill Harry in the forest, the Elder Wand decides that the young boy is a more worthy (or perhaps more promising) wizard than he is. With one left horcrux he already has one foot in the grave! Thus Harry truly became the wielder of the Elder Wand. These considerations show that the Elder Wand is an unreliable ally, as its loyalty can give you away at any time, depending on whether the wizard against you is stronger. So it's more like a psychological trick that makes you think you're invincible in a duel, when it's all about skill - literally, as long as you're the strongest with will to kill, you'll be the strongest! The moment you show weakness (refuse to take a life) it is no longer yours. Something similar probably happened in the duel between Dumbledore and Grindelwald.
I know everybody has that beef with how Harry was able to take draco's wand away was the ability to give him the ownership of the elder one but I think it's more than that I think when it comes to wizards battling or stealing wants It's a battle of wills and if you're a magical will there's like maybe some kind of a law stating that whoever is the strongest will gets ownership of what. Either through physical or through extension of the physical realm of his or her wand.
My theory is that the 3 Brothers story is actually closer to the truth of how the Deathly Hallows came into being and that the Stone and Wand were both created to curse to death those who would try to defy death either by being so powerful they can’t be killed or by attempting to bring back the dead. If we work with that assumption the answer is actually fairly obvious: the Elder Wand chose Harry not because he had done anything to really deserve it but because it’s purpose was to kill those trying to escape Death, including Voldemort. Beyond that Harry had already earned the allegiance of the other Deathly Hallows, the Cloak by having it bestowed on him by his father and the Stone by being willing to die to join his loved ones instead of recalling them to the land of the living. It’s also possible the ghosts Harry summoned with the Stone also took the brunt of the attack that was meant to kill Harry, they did say both that they’d stay with him and that Voldemort wouldn’t be able to see them. I also think the curse on the ring that killed Dumbledore wasn’t set by Voldemort but was rather the Stone itself cursing Dumbledore for trying to bring his sister back. I also think Draco’s wand never actually switched allegiance, rather that at the point when Harry disarmed him Draco had begun to wish he could switch allegiances in order to help Harry fight Voldemort but was unable to do so because of his family situation and given the opportunity the wand moved to act in Draco’s stead.
if even us 'muggles' in the real world can switch allegiances against our own family, Draco should also be allowed to as well. If he's too afraid of his family doing anything to him, that's his own problem, & has nothing to do with the allegiance of the wand. Strength is the wand's ONLY factor of choice for loyalty. If we believe Rowling, then even something as mundane as disarming your opponent says that the current owner has been bested. As the theory states, if we are to believe this, then when the wand was stolen, its allegiance changed. There is no strength in allowing something to be stolen from you (without proper precautions set in place), so the wand changed allegiances. Harry got it from Draco, who got it from Dumbledore, who got it from the thief. The Elder Wand *NEVER* belonged to Voldemort in this manner, thus while he did have physical ownership, it did not ally with him, and thus its power dwindled to match what V was capable of- which was the same power level with his original wand.
The story that was actually written on paper leaves zero room for interpretation with regards to how the elder wand passes down to Harry ultimately. This “theory” is just plain wrong.
I totally agree with this theory. It actually makes much more sense than the given reason, considering J. K. Rowling's propensity for conplexity in plot - as is revealed in her later HP books which gew in maturity with her audience - it really is the vastly more likely explanation.
Why would „one weak link“ break the whole chain, though? Why can’t someone become a true owner by „besting“ a false owner? So even if Grindelwald hadn’t become the true owner, Dumbledore defeating him in a duel and taking the wand as a trophy most certainly had made Dumbledore a true owner. Especially given how JKR came out and stated that the wand is an unsentimental object, only loyal to strength alone. So it wouldn’t care about previous ownership beyond the affinity you’ve built up already, just that the new owner had strength over the previous owner.
This makes me feel better that Harry destroyed the wand in the end instead of keeping it. I always thought it was foolish that he didn't keep the resurrection stone and wand for safekeeping. But the wand, it seems, was a tad evil.
The elder wand is just a piece of wood like all wands. It’s the wand that chooses the Wizard. It’s the Spirit that lives within the wand that relinquished the transferable Ultimate Elder Power to another wand’s Spirit. Draco’s wand Spirit acquired the Ultimate Elder Power from Dumbledore. Harry’s wand Spirit acquired the Ultimate Elder Power from Draco’s wand. Simultaneously, Harry used a shorter 5 syllable word spell to disarm Voldemort, where as Voldemort used a longer 6 syllable word spell to kill Harry. Harry’s wand Spirit spell worked first, taking the Ultimate Elder Power precedence, which bounced back as in ricocheting Voldemort’s killing spell back thus killing himself. Voldemort was killed by his own ricocheting curse.
problem is that this theory doesn't explain why losing parts of his soul made him unnable to use the elder wand better than his regular wand. even if he had lost parts of his soul, the elder wand was, without a doubt more powerful than voldemort's regular wand yet he didn't notice any difference between both. we also have one confusing detail. the elder wand will never lose a duel (for his true owner) so winning a duel or disarming doesn't means sh*t since the true owner can't lose a duel while using it. that's why the elder wand can only be willingly given, stolen or obtained by murdering it's true owner (since that was death's goal when the wand was gifted) it still doesn't prove why harry became the wand's owner or, to be precise, how the elder wand knew that harry had bested Draco but not killed him.
Dumbledore's power is even more impressive if he was detering Voldemort all those years while using the Elder Wand without being its master. Confriming that destroying horcruxes actually weaknes the horcrux-owner is actually a pretty nice addition to the canon though. Much more useful than, say, Dumbledore's sexuality
It is among mankind’s greatest failings is to think strength of arms is true and total strength. Though the elder wand and all other magic appliances are powerful they are not capable of true and original thought. It is through true and original thought that Love came to be the greatest power. Though you might kill me with your power you fail to understand that belief in the power of Love gives one immortality beyond the length of life of the temporal vessel that is the body. HP came to understand this at Kings Cross station near the end of the series.
yeah but the wand was also treacherous as it wanted the death of its owner so satisfy the collection of the soul. This was brought out in the story as well. So in fact the wand might change allegiance for that reason. Best to leave the theories alone and just stick with the way it was written.
I think that if that was just after powerful people, then I thonk it would have switched it allegiance to Dumbledore because he was the most powerful wizard of the age so I really think the elder wand would swith loyalty
If Voldemort was weakened by the destruction of Horcruxes, wouldn't that also weaken is magical abilities? Yet he still seemed to be more powerful than other wizards, and put up a major fight against Harry with just 1/7th of his soul.
The only indication of what really applies - is what the author says. Speculation by fans is meaningless - and - unending. So - whatever Rowling says - nothing else matters. .
I kind of wondered why Draco's wand didn't switch to Harry when he defeated him in the Half Blood Prince. How about the dueling club in the chamber of secrets? People would be losing their wands right and left.
That doesn't explain why the wand didn't kill Harry when he went to the Dark Forest to be killed by Voldemort. Instead it killed the part of Voldemort that lived inside Harry. So if Voldemort was the true owner, and the wand gave it's allegiance to the strongest and most ruthless wizard, it should have killed Harry. Please explain.
Even if Voldemort was the true owner at one point wouldn’t it change to whoever the first one to destroy one of his horcrux’s was after the point he became its master. Just because he can’t feel part of his soul being killed doesn’t mean the wand wouldn’t know
I think it makes more sense that the wand decides which wizard is stronger when someone claims it from the other and bestows itself to them. Also probably the wand doesn't grant more power to any owner unless they are harry Potter aka the true master of death. The extraordinary magic performed by the others could be just their own potential showing. Voldemort himself admitted he was extraordinary so he scratched the surface of the wand's truth
My issue stems from practice duels. If Hermione disarms Ron, how does Ron's wand know it was just practice? If Ron dissrms Hermione, despite his wand being loyal to Hermione, do both his wand and hers now switch loyalties?
My understanding was that when Draco disarmed Dumbledore in book 6, he became the master of the elder wand. Then, when Harry took Draco’s wand from him, Harry then became the true master of the elder wand.
If you can't win a wand's allegiance by disarming the owner, then most of the second half of the deadly Hallows does not work. Because Harry, his friends, and other wizards are constantly getting wands by taking them out of people's hands. Ron with Wormtail, Harry with Draco's wand. In the book, it's made clear that that's how it worked. It sounds like Rowling just changed her mind later and made up the whole thing about wands being so loyal it takes that much to win them. Because if that is canon, then she invalidated most of the Deathly Hallows and created a huge plot hole because, as I said, everyone was grabbing wands out of people's hands, and they worked. And I don't see how winning wands by taking them as a plot whole makes sense. Plus, if the Elder wand has no allegiance and just goes where the greater power is, then it would have changed to Grindelwald after it was taken regardless if he was cowardly because he was one of the most powerful Wizards in history; the wandmaker would not have compared.
READ THE BOOKS!!! It is explained (in the book) that Voldemort taking Harry's blood in the goblet of fire strengthened his mothers protection charm, Dumbledore literally says: "As long as Voldemort exists so does the protection charm." Voldemort sabotaged himself by taking Harry's blood. And during the final duel, the spell rebounded on him AGAIN. So Voldemort killed himself. Plus, Harry repairs his own wand with it then puts it back in Dumbledore's grave.
Just in case it matters at this point, this post contains SPOILERS. If Voldemort was the owner of the Elder Wand, then Harry would carry some of that ownership in possessing part of Voldemort's shattered soul. And when when he used it to kill Harry at the end, unwittingly attacking his own horcrux, he wound up destroying a part of his own soul instead, leaving Harry completely intact due to the protections of his mother's blood. In doing so, the wand would sense that Voldemort had lost this duel, both failing to kill its target, and leaving its wielder weaker because of it. The wand would undoubtedly perceive Harry to be the stronger and switched allegiance fully. This would have been the final piece of the Hallows, making Harry Master of Death.
This theory means that Dumbledore was the most powerful wizard of his time WITHOUT the advantage the Elder wand, which makes Dumbledore all the more amazing. That said, as the most powerful wizard of his time, the Elder wand would have switched allegiance regardless how Dumbledore obtained it according to how the video ends.
The elder wand choses the strongest wizard. Which means just because you wield the elder wand going into a duel, doesn't mean you'll win. The strongest wizard will gain the wands allegiance. Dumbledore was very weak when facing Draco, Draco was stronger.
Okay hold on though.. there's one thing in that theory that doesn't make sense. No one confirmed that Gregorovitch was the actual owner of the wand. Who is to not say that he was sold the wand? How do we know he didn't steal the wand? How did Gregorovitch come about the wand in the first place? Voldemort killing him doesn't confirm that Gregorovitch was the owner. Sure saying that killing the previous owner makes the killer the new owner, but if you look back how does it have to be done? Because we know that the original owner wasn't killed via magic. IF that little animated story is correct. Does it have to be done via magic or can slicing the throat be considered besting? Remember the brothers used magic to cheat death, i'm sure magic would need to be involved. So was there any true owner of the wand besides the original? Since the elder wand was never bested by another wand? What also doesn't make sense if the Elder wand is the most powerful wand in existence, how can another wand best it? Would that make the Elder Wand a false hollow? Would that mean the other wand that beats it, is considered the most powerful? And makes the Elder Wand second place?
Wand lore is discussed in various places in the series but the general consensus is that even though wands are not sentient, they do "choose" their owners but even wand makers don't know how this works.
The line it self the wand find power Dumbledore was a very powerful wizard When in his hand the wand chose him as it un-loyal I think the wand just sense power and strength change allegiance when it suits it. In Voldemort case it knows he has lost battle to a child why would it follow him When it came to Harry the wand could tell Voldemort was indeed powerful but this was the child who defeated him more than once with a disarming spell at most. Think what this child could do with stronger spells the capability that he could accomplish
Title, CONFIRMED. Video, Rowling seems to suggest. Anyway, splitting your souls is not automatically factual that it means you are weaker. Unless they've stated such in the books. Therefore it could still make no sense why the wand would not work for Voldy. Who is still the most powerful wizard.
If that theory is correct, then the Elder Wand would have never been anyone's true possession since its creator and first owner was killed in a cowardly way by being killed in his sleep.
JK Rowling has publicly stated that she wanted to write a story where a fistfight between two schoolboys decided the fate of the world.: Harry became the true owner of the Elder Wand when he defeated Malfoy in that scuffle. The exact quote you used clearly states that the Elder Wand is so fickle that it will change allegiance for minor things that would not affect other wands. So yes, disarming or theft will make the Elder wand change allegiance, even though most other wands would not.
We know that evil can triumph , we see it constantly in this world but many believe and others hope , that in another existence it does not… so you are correct , we want ‘good’ to win in fantasy novels otherwise it’s ‘same old, same old’..
I heard about this rubbish theory. Even if Grindelwald wasn't the rightful owner Dumbledore surely was when he properly won the wand. To me besting could be even a simple disarming. Either way Voldemort still lost because he wasn't the owner of the wand, and the wand was loyal to his owner at the time- Harry. I also don't think that owning the wand has anything to do with power like some people might suggest. The wand chose to be loyal to Harry who was a mediocre wizard. So no it's not about power it's about simply disarming.
I think that while an ordinary wand may change allegiance by dueling the elder wand itself seeks out power and those willing to wield its deathly power. The elder wand doesn't have a master, only those who become slave to it's power only to be betrayed to a stronger witch or wizard.
This theory does not answer the title of the video. In fact, it creates the question "how did Harry beat Voldemort?" because if Harry was not the true owner of the Elder Wand and Voldemort was, there is no obvious explanation for why Harry would have won that last duel. You are fail.
Not considering that the reason for Harry's ownership is important as well as the fact of it. To say that this video is pointless, is actually lazy commentary.
@sueevansProoovviitt "not considering that the reason for harrys ownership is important as well as the fact of it" WTF even is that sentence? It is important that Harry is the master of the elder wand. I never said it wasn't. This video postures that it was questionable whether Dumbledore was ever the master of the elder wand. The only way Harry becomes master of it is because he disarms Draco, who had disarmed Dumbledore at the top of the astronomy tower. The chain of events starts with Dumbledore being the master of it to begin with. Hence, my point of this video being pointless.
@@sueevansProoovviittno it's not he disarmed Draco who had his arm dumbledore therefore Harry was the true master at the older one your comment makes no sense
The reason Harry defeated Voldemort is the same reason that Voldemort could not defeat Harry as a baby: he had a very powerful shield charm caused by the love of a recently-deceased individual, in this case himself. All of Hogwarts had this charm cast upon it upon Harry’s death, and it remained in place when Harry chose to come back. Not even the Elder Wand was a match for this charm.
Um he stunned the owner he stole it from. But i believe the owner is decided by the wand on who is more powerft so itd never choose voldy because he was scared to die.
Perhaps Grindelwald wasn't ever the true owner of the Elder Wand, but that doesn't mean that it didn't decide to switch to Dumbledore when he defeated Grindelwald. After all, its loyalty was to strength. I see no problem with it accepting a new wizard as its owner regardless of who was wielding it at the moment. For that matter, Draco may not have ever been chosen by the Elder Wand. It could very well be that it had no master until Harry's sacrifice in the Forbidden Forrest. That kind and amount of strength would almost certainly catch the Elder Wand's attention.
This was my first thought. There's no rule I'm aware of that you have to "win" a wand from its rightful owner for it to change allegiance, especially with a wand as unsentimental as the Elder Wand is described as being.
Voldemort was also the much more powerful wizard than Harry according to every official source. Considering that, the idea of a loyal Elder Wand would create a giant plot hole surrounding the final duel and Voldemort's inability to best Harry, an average wizard with a normal wand. At least until and unless it's confirmed somewhere that losing Horcrux pieces actually does diminish the magical power of his main body, for which I'm not aware of any evidence other than fan assumptions.
@@Gaius_Claudius sure, Voldemort had magical might and powerful spells at his disposal, but he had no strength of character and very few, if any, people truly loyal to him. He only had a leadership position because he had things to offer people that submitted to him. Unlike Harry, Voldemort never inspired people to follow him because of who he was, but rather what they believed he could do for them. People mainly joined his side either because they were too scared to resist or because they wanted a piece of the pie and thought he was their best bet to getting themselves some power.
I like the theory that the Elder Wand has actually _never_ changed allegiance... because its allegiance is to Death. Whenever it kills, in whomever's hand, it is serving its true master.
Good point. And since Voldemort could not kill Harry, the wand began to betray Voldemort and not cast his spells correctly. Thus handicapping Voldemort as he tried to kill Harry after he awoke from his apparent death in the forest.
@@FTTLOMS Or, was it already betraying Voldemort when it "failed" to correctly deliver his killing curse (effectively saving Harry's life)? After all, Voldemort never actually became the wand's true owner at any point. Was the Elder wand just acting out of spite, or... can such a severe curse only be executed by the one whom a wand has chosen? Not as steeped in the lore as many here are, so just asking.
@@PressRecord777 I think that’s a great point.
It’s all just fun speculation. No need to know everything. And it just occurred to me that under the idea that the wand’s only true master was death, Voldemort was the only wizard in known history to fail to deliver a killing blow with the Avada Kedavra curse. Therefore the wand was just never going to obey him even if he had killed the previous owner. So perhaps Voldemort’s ultimate fate was sealed by Lilly Potter on the night he attacked the Potter family.
Prior to Voldy it was Dumbledore. And he was not a killer so perhaps it just obeyed his other magic because of his sheer strength and skill. Prior to that it was Grindelwald’s and he was a killer who never had a killing spell fail.
This is probably way more thought than JK Rowling put into this, haha.
@@FTTLOMS True. Probably why most engineers wouldn't make great fiction writers-they'd keep making plot revisions on finding holes or inconsistencies, and the manuscript would never find its way to a publisher. 🙃
Absolutely 4 d thought on the trio. Made me pause a moment. Sound in logic of the creator. From that amazing beer commercial, “Brilliant!”
What Rowling said does close the plot hole, yes, but likely not in the way you think.
The Elder Wand differs from your typical wand in that it has no loyalty. It switches allegiance with whoever the strongest may be. And such a wand that can switch "true owners" on a whim may be liberal in its definition of what power and "besting someone" is.
It could be as obvious as killing, as mundane as disarming, or even as underhanded as outwitting its current owner and stealing it from them. The latter may be cowardly, but, to the Elder Wand, an owner careless enough to allow it to be taken doesn't deserve its allegiance, and it would likely rather side with the one who successfully stole it.
Well my understanding is that the elder wand has been stolen that many times, dishanded, that it probably sounds like a rather stiff elderly letter of law ministry of magic employee/house elf if were to be given a voice and then ask the user to give itself a rather nice box with fifty intellectual and raw power and brawn trials just to see whom is worthy of wielding it to it's fullest potential without going announcing you've got a bigger wand that happens to be somewhat powerful.
It would be fairly straightforward to argue that if the Elder Wand switches allegiance to "the strongest", then it seems obvious that it would inevitably end up with Dumbledore. He was, after all, widely considered to be the most powerful wizard alive. Perhaps you don't even have to duel the previous owner at all, as long as it is clear that you are stronger than the previous owner. It is unclear to me if Voldemort was ever the most powerful wizard, since Dumbledore was alive for quite some time during his life and only died when several of Voldy's horcruxes had already been destroyed, taking parts of his soul (and magical power) with them. So why does the wand end up with Harry in the end? Perhaps one of the other comments is correct and Harry's sacrifice in the forest shows such strength of conviction that the Elder Wand was impressed by it and switched allegiance? Who can say.
It's a sociopath .
Consider this. What if the elder wand lies outside wand lore? What if the elder wand shows loyalty to those who possess Peverall blood? The wand may have betrayed Grindelwald because Dumbledore may be more closely related to the Peverell family than Grindelwald. If the elder wand is a family heirloom and shows more loyalty to someone who possesses more family blood, then maybe it never bonded to Voldemort because he had so very little of his soul left. In addition Harry possessed two other deathly hallows which are also inheritances from the Peverell family. This would mark him and prove to the wand that he has a stronger blood bond to the magical item and therefore the wand would obey Harry over Voldemort
Interesting.
I REALLY like this theory and it makes perfect sense, im sure i read somewhere that someone in dumbledores bloodline married into the perverell family which would also lean towards loyalty to dumbledore if your theory is correct, i also think that while dumbledore and grindlewald dueled (grindlewaald had the elder wand at this point) it was the act of grindlewaald dueling to kill and dumbledore dueling to protect that also shows loyalty and leans nicely into the fact that dumbledore had a lot of power and strength being that he later says to Neville in philosophers stone “it takes a lot to stand up to your enemies but even more to stand up to your friends” so it takes even more for dumbledore to stand up to someone he loved after resisting it for YEARS he finally did and won, idk how you could possibly have a more strength defining conflict between wizards so what shows more strength than that, it also similarly works with harry and voldys final duel too, harry spelling everything out, had just died spreading lily’s protection and his own to everyone on the good side, he offered voldy a way out and still he refused to learn, thats an immense amount of strength and wisdom beyond their years, two traits dumbledore and harry shared hence i love your theory SO much!!🙌🏻✨🙌🏻
JK Rowling's qutoe seems to say the opposite of the theory presented here - Grindlewald, Dumbl;edore et al WERE the owners of the EW because the latter knew no personal loyalty, only to strength. And all those inbetween were strong. And yes, disarming such a strong wizard counts as being stronger. So no, there is no plot hole.
ACTUALLY, and few people know this, Voldermort had just found out that Chuck Norris was on the Hogwarts Express and heading to the school. Voldermort knew it would be much better to let Harry win...
Lmao
You are incorrect, the train broke down so he was carrying the Express up from London. And he had Xander Harris with him to tell people to get off the tracks and back into the cars.
Chuck is the only muggle who can see hogwarts and cast non verbal spells
@@daa589 😂
Makes sense to me 🤣
Being Death's wand, my headcannon has always been that, an old owner needed to die or that a new owner needed to kill with the wand for it to switch allegiance. Sending a soul to its creator, so to speak, was the price of admission. Once holding the wand, it didn't matter who, why, or how; just that you summoned Death officiated the transfer. Tom's soul was in pieces, with Death coming to collect pieces rather than the whole with the destruction of each horcrux, creating a loophole of partial ownership and partial transfer. Meaning the wand didn't know who had more claim, Harry or Tom, given that Harry may have killed more of Tom than Tom had left to himself.
Yeah I've heard this before. Voldemort couldn't use the wand properly since he always had 1/7 of his soul remaining and he was very close to death. So no way the most powerful wand would side with someone who has one foot in the grave already.
If you remember the 1st movie, the shop owner says the wand picks its owner. That is the bases of all theories. It was obvious that though the wand was in many wizards' possession it never truly excepted them. It is only Harry whom gets total acceptance.
Who could say if Gregorovitch was the true owner pf the elder wand realistically? Its all speculation so I'll stick with yhe books explanation which fits better than any theory I've listened to.
Voldemort should've just strangled HP when they were in the castle, when he was wrapping his robes around him and literally had him at his mercy.
That is a very good explanation and very likely more correct than any I could think up. However, the wand was the property of the oldest brother whos line lead directly to Harry. He was the last and was master of the wand all along. It was taken by murder while it master slept. It never truly past outside the family line.
You are discussing the biggest problem with the movie, aren’t you? Even though the last two movies are “Deathly Hallows” that part of the story line was written out of the movies, wasn’t it? The movies stuck to “Horcruxes” and a wand fight, didn’t they? And it wasn’t a time to tell the story issue, which makes the screenplay change even more sad, doesn’t it? Rollings wrote a far more interesting story conclusion, didn’t she?
There does not seem to be many actual duels in the life span of the Elder wand (after the original Perverall? brother, does it? So,,,,,,,Harry beats you know who because by the time they duel, you know who was too weak (maybe) to beat Harry (who is using a (stolen?, borrowed?) wand himself)? And he was using a wand that was being used against its rightful owner. Maybe I'm missing something somewhere in this post. The books address the issue in much more detail than the shows and it makes much more sense. The duel between Harry and V is much more gripping. I read it often. So thanks for the post, but I think I'm sticking to the books for now.
How does anyone, except for JKR, know that Gregorovich was the wands true owner? How did the old wand maker obtain it? That has never come to light.
Keep in mind that Harry sacrificed himself, setting up the same protection on everyone as did his mother on him. It's why Harry tells him that his spells will no longer stick. On top of that, Tom stole it and didn't best Dumbledore, even though, it is assumed, that he used it for dark magic before he struck Harry down in the forest.
Albus, though, supposedly bested Gellert in a duel, so he would have been able to utilize its full power. Since JKR stated that the wand has a loose allegiance, Draco would have been able to use it too, until Harry bested him. It's like Harry said, does the wand know its last owner was defeated by him?
There are some posibilities:
1) The wand wasn't the Elder Wand. It was just another powerful wand. They did talk about this in the book. They just came to the conclusion it was the same wand, and they were wrong.
2) The wand was made by a Peverell. Both Voldemort and Harry was a Peverell. It is possible the 3th brother, who made the wand, had put some kind of failsafe on the wand because he knew his brothers also was very powerful... aka a Peverell can't kill a Peverell with it. It would match with the power of blood which is talked about serveral times in the book (Petunia, Lily etc)
3) The wand could be the Elder Wand BUT Voldemorts soul had a part in Harry when he tried to kill him aka he was outsmarted and therefore lost its alliance at that point.
3 failes cause in the final dule the part of soul in harry was gone. Killed by the Killing curse.
@@ms.honiqualisha4529 But it case 3) The Wand would has shifted to Harry because he outsmart him when Voldemort killed the horcrux. So basicly the same outcome as the main story.
I LOVE this theory!
It always bothered me that it was as simple for Harry to win it as simply wrestling Draco's wand away. Not even the actual Elderwand and not magically defeat. Disarming alone doesn't sit much better with me, because that way every time someone is disarmed, they would basically lose their wand's allegiance!
Interestingly the Pervell Blood flows through both their veins. Odd though that the Pervell's were subsumed into families with Death type names Potter's Field (Although Linfield of Strithcomb [sp] was known as the Potterer for pottering around his garden) The Gaunts, makes one wonder about the Bones family?
Question: if Dumbledore wasn't the true owner, and only the Elder Wand can mend other wands, and it is commonly accepted that Hagrid keeps his mended wand concealed inside that pink umbrella, how was Dumbledore able to successfully mend it without being the Elder Wand's true master?
Could be the umbrella was holding the pieces together, so the wand wasn't mended. If I recall correct Ollivander said to Hagrid not to use a broken wand. Hagrid did kind of try to hide the umbrella and he admited he still had the pieces... with all Hagrids slip ups it would be weird he never had sliped up and told the wand was whole again.
@@Rebslager The thing is Hagrid can do magic with the umbrella. When Harry and Ron use wands that are damaged they don't work. If the umbrela only contains pieces of a broken wand how can Hagrid successfully cast spells?
@@patrickdematosribeiro1845 It is the weak spot for my theory. But if you look closely it doesn't function well.... He tried to Dudley into a full pig. Not just give him a tail. So it malfunctioned as I see it. And nicely put together pieces in a tight space aka an umbrella handle might have been better than tape or magic.
It is all just guess' though.
@@Rebslager True, the transfiguration didn't work. However, transforming a human into an animal is very difficult, especially using a non-verbal spell. So I am not sure whether it was the wand's fault or whether the spell was simply too difficult for Hagrid who only has three years of education at Hogwarts. In the book Hagrid casts some spells successfully, for example causing a bot to move by magic so he doesnn't have to row.
@@patrickdematosribeiro1845 It is true. I also made the pumpkins grow faster. I would assume they are easier spells. Also Dumbledore did read muggle news. So maybe the umbrella, a muggle solution, was better than weak magic and magic tape to keep a magic wand together.
But who knows what is the truth in this case 😉
We don't know if the situation involving Kagorovich was anywhere in honorable too. I'm talking about how he got the elder wand.
Even if that theory is true. Voldemort already lost to Harry to the point he feared Harry. He did all he did to basically win ownership to a wand that only cared about strength. Not to mentioned that Harry told what Snape's sacrifice to all before Voldemort and Harry's final duel. Thus putting fear and doubt into Voldemort's heart.
Yea he was scared shitless of harry by the end.
Voldemort knew himself as immensely powerful and was clinging to the idea that he was the best but he knew from personal experience that harry could rock him just as bad as Dumbledore ever could with 1/10th of the experience while using elementary spells. He rationalized himself as at least equal to Dumbledore because though he feared him, there was no prophecy specifically stating that dumbledore could end him.
Dumbledore and he are pretty evenly matched in doing a bunch of fancy magic to fight each other while harry shows up and just basically overpowers him.
Harry survived the first killing curse and was able to kill possessed quirrel due to his mother's ancient magic but he killed slytherin's basilisk with a sword and destroyed his first horcrux at 12.
Learned to cast a full patronus at 13, which most adult wizards cannot do, and even when they can they cannot do it as powerfully as his. His very first corporeal patronus wards off dozens maybe hundreds of dementors.
At this point his disarming spell alone is enough to knock a full grown man across the room and incapacitate him as well. It functions as a stunning spell due to the sheer oomph behind it.
At 14 he survived the triwizard tournament (even with help it was a feat) then when he fought voldemort through raw power and force of will won the priori incantatum and made voldemort's wand regurgitate all of it's previously cast spells. Voldemort never forgot that. Voldemort was lucky that he didn't have his curse reflected that time as well.
At 15 he went toe to toe with a bunch of death eaters and would have helped dumbledore as he was kickin the crap out of voldemort if Dumbledore hadn't physically restrained him from doing so. This same year he also teaches a defense against the dark arts class so effectively that he has completely average students preforming advanced spells that most of their parents probably can't even do.
He comes back to life after a second killing curse in book 7 and then walks through the great hall casually blocking curses possibly including unblockable killing curses since because huge balls and once again snipes voldemort's killing curse out of the air with a disarming spell he learned in his 2nd year and bounces the curse back into voldemort killing him.
At the point of the final confrontation Voldemort has no idea how this guy keeps coming back to life and whipping him but he knows that the prophecy said harry would have the power to defeat him and has experienced that defeat firsthand multiple times, sometimes on technicalities and other times through Harry's raw power. The books make it clear the prophecy is alluding to the power of love and friendship but it is also pretty clear that Harry is death on legs. Voldemort doesn't fear the power of love. He fears the terminator that has repeatedly kicked his butt one way or another for the past 17 years.
I think Harry was basically written as being as naturally gifted and moreso than voldemort or dumbledore either one were. They had great abilities combined with great effort while Harry was just not inclined to an interest in academics nor afforded the opportunity to learn due to circumstances.
But he seems to capitalize best on his latent abilities when traumatic circumstances arise.
So if the Elder Wand recognizes the strongest wizard as it's master then hiding it in Dunbledore's sarcoficase until Harry's passing then the power of the wand would not be broken as suggested in the Deathly Hollows. It would transfer it's alegence to any powerful wizard of witch who found it.
I just want to see the Dumbledore and Grindlewald duel portrayed in film properly. The Order of the Phoenix duel was pretty good, but in the books Dumbledore and Voldemort are apparating around and it reminds me of the scene in fantastic beasts, when Dumbledore uses apparition while facing Creedence/Aurelious in his obscurial form. I always wondered why wizards and witches weren’t using apparition during their duels. The Dumbledore vs Grindlewald duel could look incredible, if anyone cared enough to make it so..
By Rowlings diffinition the disarming would have been sufficient as disarming is not needed. Those that seek the wand are typically more likely/ willing to kill but it is not needed.
However here's a train of thought to consider:
The propechy notes Voldermort selecting his equal who may one day kill him from parents who have trice defied him. There is a quote in the books where it is brought up Harry has done it more and as an underage wizard.
There is a link between wizards and wands, they can "weigh" and choose an individual....
Did Voldermort ever truly own the elder wand or would it have passed him over waiting for the teenager to claim it that repeatedly got the better of Voldermort?
Voldermort only weilds magic he thinks is impressive, spreads fear or can one tap someone. He was not nearly as skilled as Dumbledore or Grindewald. He is motivated by fear and his own insecurities. Driven by it. A slave to it. Would that pass as strength - especially if he can't seem to deal with some underage witches and Wizards?
Food for though.....
Interesting, but the novel clearly states how the Elder wand was won down to Harry and Ollivander explains wandlore to Harry. Clearly disarming or pulling a wand from someone's hand apparently is enough. The final line when Harry and Voldemort cast their spells is that the Elder wand returned to its "master at last". The wand would not kill Harry because it recognized him as its owner. End of story.
I wonder if Harry could’ve beaten Voldemort on his own without the Elder Wand’s allegiance
Definitely couldn’t have beaten him without all that plot armor
No. Voldemort is the superior wizard. Not that Harry was talented for his age. Just that Voldemort had decades more experience, time to gather a powerbase, more experience in leading(loosely) an army. Given time and dedication could Harry have opposed The Dark Lord as an equal? Perhaps, but at the point of their confrontation... the simple answer is no.
@@someonlinedouche6992 Unfortunately voldemort no longer had access to anywhere close to the decades of experience he should have been able to call upon due to his destroyed horcruxes, besides which the elder wand would never have worked anywhere near 1/10th of the supposed power it would display for a true owner for voldemort as any wand voldemort would have used would either be destroyed by priori incantatem (his own wand would just do the magic light show version of priori incantatem. The elder wand is an exception to the destruction rule it seems.) So yeah harry can take on voldemort for the 3rd time that year just as he could 6, 4, and three years ago as voldemort as brilliant as he was never quite comprehended the complexities of the foundational magics apart from fear.
@@xyreniaofcthrayn1195 losing horcrux means you lose experience. Why you making up fanfiction for how horcrux work?
We love Harry but come on mate. Did we read the same books.
When it comes to the Elder Wand, it seems to be a misconception that the wand is ever truly owned by a given which or wizard at any point in time. Ollivander states, "the wand chooses the wizard" but given the nature of the Elder wand, it seems rather to choose and own whichever wizard will serve as the most suitable and promising host in order to accomplish its ends. It may remain faithful to its possessor for a time but only until another comes along, whether by chance or destiny, which proves to be a successor to the former as well as the next link in the bloody chain the wand has forged since its creation.
But Dumbledore did great things with the Elder Wand, great things against Voldemort.
Maybe she is talking about true power. Power from within. Voldemort and all the others sought the wand to be their power. The wand sought people who had power within themselves which it could tap into. It was either looking for symbiosis or maybe only looking to leech.
That would cover any plot holes.
Here's a different point of view: The wand belonged to Gregorovitch but switched allegience to Grindelwald because Gregorovitch wasn't intelligent enough to hide his wand in a good place and Grindelwald was sneaky enough to find it and take it.
Since the wand chooses the wizard, if the Elder wand was 'tired' of Gregorovitc, it could very well have done something to help it be passed on to the next wizard - perhaps hoping for a wizard that was more "promising".
After all, we don't know all the ins and outs of that wand so it might not just be violence that changes its allegience, since it likes strength, being owned by a wizard dying of an illness, curse, or declining health could make it decide to help along the process of getting another wizard. And this could be why it's known to be taken by violence and death.
The problem with this theory is that Dumbledore also wielded the elder wand very well, like the time he tried to drown Voldemort or the time he was controlling all that fire.
Regarding this theory the Elder Wand might not even have had a clear ownership at the moment of the final duel with Harry. I don't think losing parts of his soul made Voldemort weaker in the common sense as the parts of his soul that were destroyed had already been gone from his close vicinity for decades and it didn't influence him at all. But it is clear that Harry had "murdered" a part of Voldemort by destroying the diary of Tom Riddle, so he already had "bested" Voldemort on a certain level. But he was not the only one. The ring had been destroyed by Dumbledore, the locket was destroyed by Ron, the cup of Hufflepuff was destroyed by Hermione, the diadem was destroyed by Goyle, Nagini was killed by Neville and the part in Harry was killed by Voldemort without ever "besting" Harry truely. So all of the mentoined had equal claims to the ownership of the wand. Ok, Dumbledores claim might have realy been passed on to snape who was then killed by Nagini, which in turn would have not gone to Voldemort (I wonder how Voldemort ever thought he might become the true owner by not killing Snape himself, of course even if Voldemort's theory would have been correct, Nagini would have become the true owner...) but to Nagini, who we know (but Voldemort might have never been aware of) to have been a real, human minded being, and so maybe Neville would have been able to get two parts of the claim on the ownership by killing Nagini, but nevertheless the theory stands that at that point the Elder Wand wasn't even sure about its true owner anymore.
"However, the Elder Wand knows no loyalty except to strength."
"It will only go where the power is. So, if you win, then you've won the wand."
"And also it attracts wizards like Voldemort who confuse being prepared to murder with strength."
Doesn't that mean the wand simply didn’t acknowledge Voldermort's strength and therefore it wasn't loyal to him?
Sorry that my comment is so lengthy, but it tears apart the theory in this video.
Short version: Basically, Harry's skill, strength AND courage combined would make Harry seem like the BEST candidate to master the Elder Wand, even when compared to the likes of Draco, Snape, Dumbledore, Grindelwald and Gregorovich. The Wand would see Harry as perfect while Draco, Snape, Dumbledore, Grindelwald and Gregorovich ALL were decently strong but missing something crucial. My 5 theories below explain how this would be possible.
Long Version:
There are 2 (maybe 3-5) holes in this theory:
1. Even with Harry's sacrifice in the forest, there were still 2 pieces of Voldemort's soul left (Nagini and main body Voldemort). This means Harry had NOT defeated Voldemort yet and the Elder Wand would recognize this fact. Also, with the Elder Wand only being loyal to strength, it likely would NOT respect Harry's sacrifice unless the sacrifice defeated the FINAL part of Voldemort's soul. The Elder Wand would likely want to see if Voldemort had the strength to continue DESPITE Harry's sacrifice, which he did indeed do (or attempt to do). Having not given up when he was hurt by Harry's sacrifice, the Elder Wand would have recognized Voldemort's inner fortitude as strength and retained loyalty. This track of thinking would have made it IMPOSSIBLE for Harry to be the master of the wand and therefore unable to win against Voldemort. Basically, if Voldy was the Master at ANY POINT in the final battle, Harry would have stood zero chance against him.
2. The Elder Wand probably DID shift loyalty to Grindelwald, but not because it deemed Grindelwald worthy. Rather, it probably changed loyalty to spite Gregorovich (Sp?). This means Grindelwald had 99%, but not 100%, mastery and loyalty of the Elder Wand. Dumbledore and Grindelwald were considered EQUALS in skill and strength before Grindelwald EVER had the Elder Wand. So, if Grindelwald had 100% mastery of the wand, then Dumbledore would have stood no chance against him. That 1% hesitation on the part of the Elder Wand would have been the ONLY chance Dumbledore had. The Elder Wand probably sensed that both wizard had equal skill and strength, but that Dumbledore was fully ready to fight in honest combat DESPITE being at a disadvantage against an otherwise equal wizard. The Elder Wand probably recognized Dumbledore's willingness to fight in open combat despite the odds as being mentally stronger than a wizard (Grindelwald) who had to steal the wand and a wizard (Gregorovich) who was careless enough to let the wand be stolen. In this case, Dumbledore was the true master of the wand.
3. (Possible hole): Dumbledore was never careless with the wand. However, the Elder Wand had 2 very good reasons to doubt Dumbledore's ability to keep being its master. First was the foolish choice to put on a ring that Dumbledore HAD TO HAVE KNOWN was cursed simply out of sentimentality. Also, the Elder Wand probably recognized the other Hallow (the Resurrection Stone). The Wand knew that those who seek the stone's power do so typically to bring the dead back to life out of longing for loved ones. The Wand would NOT respect such weakness, but would still retain loyalty to Dumbledore until someone forced the Wand away from him. The Wand would also be aware that the curse is killing Dumbledore and therefore a change is coming. Second would be Dumbledore's choice to drink the cursed potion to get the fake locket. The Wand would see the purposeful weakening of himself (Dumbledore) only to end in failure as a 2nd screw up.
With these 2 conditions in mind, it becomes possible that the Elder Wand would settle for a master disarming Dumbledore instead of killing just so it can get away from a master it sees as basically a moron. The Wand probably also let Draco become master with just disarming because it recognized Draco's ambition and potential strength while, at the same time, logically knowing Draco could not win otherwise due to difference in experience and strength between Dumbledore and Draco. So the Wand had to choose between a moron (in it's eyes) who is dying and losing strength vs. a youngling who, while weak, had great potential and was still brave enough to face Dumbledore in some capacity. If the wand is loyal only to strength (be it raw strength or better strategy), then Draco would be the better bet. Once it chose disarming as a valid way to change loyalty, the Wand would then probably allow this again for Harry.
4. (Possible hole): Snape being the Wand's master by killing Dumbledore probably would not count. Dumbledore and Snape PLANNED for Snape to be the one to kill him. This means the wand would not see Snape as having forcibly taken Dumbledore's life and therefore, from a strength perspective, would not view this as a win for Snape. Also, if my third theory is true, the wand would have already lost some loyalty to Dumbledore before Snape and Dumbledore even came up with their plan and therefore would have seen Snape as just a follower of Dumbledore and therefore only a follower of an owner it was already starting to doubt. This eliminates Snape as ever being the master.
5. (Possible hole): Related to points 1 and 3. The Wand viewed Harry's use of the Resurrection Stone differently than it would Dumbledore's use. Harry was not a fool who gave in to a moment of weakness. Harry was using the Stone to strengthen his resolve to die to weaken his greatest foe. The Wand would recognize this as strength, both for the fortitude and because it would, effectively, kill Harry. The Wand would respect this since the entire point of all 3 Hallows is to lure people to death somehow. Then, when Harry comes back to life, the Wand would respect Harry even more because Harry made the hard choice to return rather than the easy choice to move on, which the Wand would recognize as strength as well as factoring in Harry forcibly taking Draco's Wand via disarming, which it would allow since it allowed Draco to do the same with Dumbledore. The Wand would weigh all that against Voldemort, who NEVER won the wand in the first place from Draco AND who it would view as weak to avoid death, which is the Wand's original purpose. This would cause the Wand to choose Harry, hence making it possible for Harry to win.
the biggest problem with this theory is that there’s a moment in the 7th book that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Harry is in fact the true master of the Elder Wand… and that moment takes place in the Forbidden Forest after Voldemort uses the killing curse on Harry they both are knocked unconscious and when Voldemort wakes up he asks if Harry is dead Narcissa lies and says he is dead and feeling so much joy that he finally killed his foe Voldemort uses the Cruciatus Curse on Harrys “lifeless” body and Harry stated that he felt absolutely nothing, and let’s rewind to the 4th book in the graveyard Voldemort uses the Cruciatus Curse on Harry there as well and Harry described it as the most painful feeling he’d ever experienced in his life, the only difference between the two times Voldemort uses that curse on Harry is the Wand he uses to cast the spell… one Wand refused to inflict any pain on its true master
The Elder wand just choose the most powerful wizard around for owner. Grindelwald was more powerful than Gregorovitch, so Elder wand served to him, despite he just stolen it. After that, Dumbledore beat him in their famous duel, so he became the Elder wand new master. After Dumbledore fall form the tower, her loyality may differ somewhere between Draco, Snape and Harry. Maybe Snape, because he is very talented wizard. When Vodemort get the wand, he was been recognized as powerful dark wizard so he became her true owner. This is where his disintegrating soul comes into play as a result of the destroyed Horcruxes. He confuses this weakness with Elder wand loyality, or perhaps the wand actually refuses to serve a wizard with a crumbling soul? After his Avada Kedavra killing curse fails to actually kill Harry in the forest, the Elder Wand decides that the young boy is a more worthy (or perhaps more promising) wizard than he is. With one left horcrux he already has one foot in the grave! Thus Harry truly became the wielder of the Elder Wand. These considerations show that the Elder Wand is an unreliable ally, as its loyalty can give you away at any time, depending on whether the wizard against you is stronger. So it's more like a psychological trick that makes you think you're invincible in a duel, when it's all about skill - literally, as long as you're the strongest with will to kill, you'll be the strongest! The moment you show weakness (refuse to take a life) it is no longer yours. Something similar probably happened in the duel between Dumbledore and Grindelwald.
I know everybody has that beef with how Harry was able to take draco's wand away was the ability to give him the ownership of the elder one but I think it's more than that I think when it comes to wizards battling or stealing wants It's a battle of wills and if you're a magical will there's like maybe some kind of a law stating that whoever is the strongest will gets ownership of what. Either through physical or through extension of the physical realm of his or her wand.
My theory is that the 3 Brothers story is actually closer to the truth of how the Deathly Hallows came into being and that the Stone and Wand were both created to curse to death those who would try to defy death either by being so powerful they can’t be killed or by attempting to bring back the dead. If we work with that assumption the answer is actually fairly obvious: the Elder Wand chose Harry not because he had done anything to really deserve it but because it’s purpose was to kill those trying to escape Death, including Voldemort. Beyond that Harry had already earned the allegiance of the other Deathly Hallows, the Cloak by having it bestowed on him by his father and the Stone by being willing to die to join his loved ones instead of recalling them to the land of the living. It’s also possible the ghosts Harry summoned with the Stone also took the brunt of the attack that was meant to kill Harry, they did say both that they’d stay with him and that Voldemort wouldn’t be able to see them. I also think the curse on the ring that killed Dumbledore wasn’t set by Voldemort but was rather the Stone itself cursing Dumbledore for trying to bring his sister back.
I also think Draco’s wand never actually switched allegiance, rather that at the point when Harry disarmed him Draco had begun to wish he could switch allegiances in order to help Harry fight Voldemort but was unable to do so because of his family situation and given the opportunity the wand moved to act in Draco’s stead.
if even us 'muggles' in the real world can switch allegiances against our own family, Draco should also be allowed to as well. If he's too afraid of his family doing anything to him, that's his own problem, & has nothing to do with the allegiance of the wand.
Strength is the wand's ONLY factor of choice for loyalty. If we believe Rowling, then even something as mundane as disarming your opponent says that the current owner has been bested.
As the theory states, if we are to believe this, then when the wand was stolen, its allegiance changed. There is no strength in allowing something to be stolen from you (without proper precautions set in place), so the wand changed allegiances. Harry got it from Draco, who got it from Dumbledore, who got it from the thief. The Elder Wand *NEVER* belonged to Voldemort in this manner, thus while he did have physical ownership, it did not ally with him, and thus its power dwindled to match what V was capable of- which was the same power level with his original wand.
The story that was actually written on paper leaves zero room for interpretation with regards to how the elder wand passes down to Harry ultimately. This “theory” is just plain wrong.
I totally agree with this theory. It actually makes much more sense than the given reason, considering J. K. Rowling's propensity for conplexity in plot - as is revealed in her later HP books which gew in maturity with her audience - it really is the vastly more likely explanation.
Why would „one weak link“ break the whole chain, though? Why can’t someone become a true owner by „besting“ a false owner?
So even if Grindelwald hadn’t become the true owner, Dumbledore defeating him in a duel and taking the wand as a trophy most certainly had made Dumbledore a true owner.
Especially given how JKR came out and stated that the wand is an unsentimental object, only loyal to strength alone. So it wouldn’t care about previous ownership beyond the affinity you’ve built up already, just that the new owner had strength over the previous owner.
This makes me feel better that Harry destroyed the wand in the end instead of keeping it. I always thought it was foolish that he didn't keep the resurrection stone and wand for safekeeping. But the wand, it seems, was a tad evil.
The elder wand is just a piece of wood like all wands. It’s the wand that chooses the Wizard. It’s the Spirit that lives within the wand that relinquished the transferable Ultimate Elder Power to another wand’s Spirit. Draco’s wand Spirit acquired the Ultimate Elder Power from Dumbledore. Harry’s wand Spirit acquired the Ultimate Elder Power from Draco’s wand. Simultaneously, Harry used a shorter 5 syllable word spell to disarm Voldemort, where as Voldemort used a longer 6 syllable word spell to kill Harry. Harry’s wand Spirit spell worked first, taking the Ultimate Elder Power precedence, which bounced back as in ricocheting Voldemort’s killing spell back thus killing himself. Voldemort was killed by his own ricocheting curse.
so he just won a duel by the ‘normal’ way anyone wins a duel..
problem is that this theory doesn't explain why losing parts of his soul made him unnable to use the elder wand better than his regular wand.
even if he had lost parts of his soul, the elder wand was, without a doubt more powerful than voldemort's regular wand yet he didn't notice any difference between both.
we also have one confusing detail. the elder wand will never lose a duel (for his true owner) so winning a duel or disarming doesn't means sh*t since the true owner can't lose a duel while using it.
that's why the elder wand can only be willingly given, stolen or obtained by murdering it's true owner (since that was death's goal when the wand was gifted)
it still doesn't prove why harry became the wand's owner or, to be precise, how the elder wand knew that harry had bested Draco but not killed him.
Dumbledore's power is even more impressive if he was detering Voldemort all those years while using the Elder Wand without being its master.
Confriming that destroying horcruxes actually weaknes the horcrux-owner is actually a pretty nice addition to the canon though. Much more useful than, say, Dumbledore's sexuality
It is among mankind’s greatest failings is to think strength of arms is true and total strength. Though the elder wand and all other magic appliances are powerful they are not capable of true and original thought. It is through true and original thought that Love came to be the greatest power. Though you might kill me with your power you fail to understand that belief in the power of Love gives one immortality beyond the length of life of the temporal vessel that is the body. HP came to understand this at Kings Cross station near the end of the series.
That would explain why Dumbledore wasn't able to use the wand's full power in his battle with Voldemort.
yeah but the wand was also treacherous as it wanted the death of its owner so satisfy the collection of the soul. This was brought out in the story as well. So in fact the wand might change allegiance for that reason. Best to leave the theories alone and just stick with the way it was written.
I think that if that was just after powerful people, then I thonk it would have switched it allegiance to Dumbledore because he was the most powerful wizard of the age so I really think the elder wand would swith loyalty
However this would not explain the reason for the wand cracking, when Voldemort destroyed the shield charm around Hogwarts
I think of it as he tried to use too much power on a wand that hadn't give him it's allegiance so it barks back by cracking
That was just cinematics. I don't recall reading that in the book.
It also hurt Voldemort
If Voldemort was weakened by the destruction of Horcruxes, wouldn't that also weaken is magical abilities? Yet he still seemed to be more powerful than other wizards, and put up a major fight against Harry with just 1/7th of his soul.
The only indication of what really applies - is what the author says. Speculation by fans is meaningless - and - unending.
So - whatever Rowling says - nothing else matters.
.
I kind of wondered why Draco's wand didn't switch to Harry when he defeated him in the Half Blood Prince. How about the dueling club in the chamber of secrets? People would be losing their wands right and left.
That doesn't explain why the wand didn't kill Harry when he went to the Dark Forest to be killed by Voldemort. Instead it killed the part of Voldemort that lived inside Harry. So if Voldemort was the true owner, and the wand gave it's allegiance to the strongest and most ruthless wizard, it should have killed Harry. Please explain.
The thing about this new generation is they think they know Harry Potter after watching the movies you must read the books before watching the movie's
Even if Voldemort was the true owner at one point wouldn’t it change to whoever the first one to destroy one of his horcrux’s was after the point he became its master. Just because he can’t feel part of his soul being killed doesn’t mean the wand wouldn’t know
I think it makes more sense that the wand decides which wizard is stronger when someone claims it from the other and bestows itself to them. Also probably the wand doesn't grant more power to any owner unless they are harry Potter aka the true master of death. The extraordinary magic performed by the others could be just their own potential showing. Voldemort himself admitted he was extraordinary so he scratched the surface of the wand's truth
My issue stems from practice duels. If Hermione disarms Ron, how does Ron's wand know it was just practice? If Ron dissrms Hermione, despite his wand being loyal to Hermione, do both his wand and hers now switch loyalties?
My understanding was that when Draco disarmed Dumbledore in book 6, he became the master of the elder wand. Then, when Harry took Draco’s wand from him, Harry then became the true master of the elder wand.
If you can't win a wand's allegiance by disarming the owner, then most of the second half of the deadly Hallows does not work. Because Harry, his friends, and other wizards are constantly getting wands by taking them out of people's hands. Ron with Wormtail, Harry with Draco's wand. In the book, it's made clear that that's how it worked. It sounds like Rowling just changed her mind later and made up the whole thing about wands being so loyal it takes that much to win them. Because if that is canon, then she invalidated most of the Deathly Hallows and created a huge plot hole because, as I said, everyone was grabbing wands out of people's hands, and they worked. And I don't see how winning wands by taking them as a plot whole makes sense. Plus, if the Elder wand has no allegiance and just goes where the greater power is, then it would have changed to Grindelwald after it was taken regardless if he was cowardly because he was one of the most powerful Wizards in history; the wandmaker would not have compared.
READ THE BOOKS!!! It is explained (in the book) that Voldemort taking Harry's blood in the goblet of fire strengthened his mothers protection charm, Dumbledore literally says: "As long as Voldemort exists so does the protection charm." Voldemort sabotaged himself by taking Harry's blood. And during the final duel, the spell rebounded on him AGAIN. So Voldemort killed himself. Plus, Harry repairs his own wand with it then puts it back in Dumbledore's grave.
Just in case it matters at this point, this post contains SPOILERS. If Voldemort was the owner of the Elder Wand, then Harry would carry some of that ownership in possessing part of Voldemort's shattered soul. And when when he used it to kill Harry at the end, unwittingly attacking his own horcrux, he wound up destroying a part of his own soul instead, leaving Harry completely intact due to the protections of his mother's blood. In doing so, the wand would sense that Voldemort had lost this duel, both failing to kill its target, and leaving its wielder weaker because of it. The wand would undoubtedly perceive Harry to be the stronger and switched allegiance fully. This would have been the final piece of the Hallows, making Harry Master of Death.
This theory means that Dumbledore was the most powerful wizard of his time WITHOUT the advantage the Elder wand, which makes Dumbledore all the more amazing. That said, as the most powerful wizard of his time, the Elder wand would have switched allegiance regardless how Dumbledore obtained it according to how the video ends.
The elder wand choses the strongest wizard. Which means just because you wield the elder wand going into a duel, doesn't mean you'll win. The strongest wizard will gain the wands allegiance. Dumbledore was very weak when facing Draco, Draco was stronger.
and Dumbledore was stronger than Gregorovich, so could win the wand without killing previous owner ..
Okay hold on though.. there's one thing in that theory that doesn't make sense. No one confirmed that Gregorovitch was the actual owner of the wand. Who is to not say that he was sold the wand? How do we know he didn't steal the wand? How did Gregorovitch come about the wand in the first place? Voldemort killing him doesn't confirm that Gregorovitch was the owner.
Sure saying that killing the previous owner makes the killer the new owner, but if you look back how does it have to be done? Because we know that the original owner wasn't killed via magic. IF that little animated story is correct. Does it have to be done via magic or can slicing the throat be considered besting? Remember the brothers used magic to cheat death, i'm sure magic would need to be involved. So was there any true owner of the wand besides the original? Since the elder wand was never bested by another wand?
What also doesn't make sense if the Elder wand is the most powerful wand in existence, how can another wand best it? Would that make the Elder Wand a false hollow? Would that mean the other wand that beats it, is considered the most powerful? And makes the Elder Wand second place?
Well, given it's a fantasy novel the author has the final say. So where are the wand rules listed?
Wand lore is discussed in various places in the series but the general consensus is that even though wands are not sentient, they do "choose" their owners but even wand makers don't know how this works.
For whatever reason Harry won and Voldemort lost simply because "... the wand chooses the wizard" whatever the the wand's reason.
You know the older Harry is in the "wet bandits", that s how he gets money for his shroom' adventures in Home Alone, check out it's canon.
To best your opponent in a youth duel, you disarm them. However, to best someone in an "adult" duel, you kill them.
The line it self the wand find power
Dumbledore was a very powerful wizard
When in his hand the wand chose him as it un-loyal
I think the wand just sense power and strength change allegiance when it suits it.
In Voldemort case it knows he has lost battle to a child why would it follow him
When it came to Harry the wand could tell Voldemort was indeed powerful but this was the child who defeated him more than once with a disarming spell at most. Think what this child could do with stronger spells the capability that he could accomplish
But grindelwald casted a stunning spell to gregorovitch. So basically he won a duel
Title, CONFIRMED. Video, Rowling seems to suggest.
Anyway, splitting your souls is not automatically factual that it means you are weaker. Unless they've stated such in the books. Therefore it could still make no sense why the wand would not work for Voldy. Who is still the most powerful wizard.
If that theory is correct, then the Elder Wand would have never been anyone's true possession since its creator and first owner was killed in a cowardly way by being killed in his sleep.
The Elder Wand failed to kill Harry in the Forbidden Forest, so in order to preserve its reputation, it allied with Harry.
JK Rowling has publicly stated that she wanted to write a story where a fistfight between two schoolboys decided the fate of the world.: Harry became the true owner of the Elder Wand when he defeated Malfoy in that scuffle.
The exact quote you used clearly states that the Elder Wand is so fickle that it will change allegiance for minor things that would not affect other wands. So yes, disarming or theft will make the Elder wand change allegiance, even though most other wands would not.
Dumbledore repaired Hagrid's wand with the Elder Wand. He could not have done this if he were not the true owner.
This fixes a MAJOR MAJOR plot hole from the Fantastic beast movies cause Tina Goldstein disarmed Grindelwald. So she would be the owner.
As always the "Real" reason is that people simply cannot accept that evil can triumph in their fantasy stories and likely would not pay to hear it.🤔
We know that evil can triumph , we see it constantly in this world but many believe and others hope , that in another existence it does not… so you are correct , we want ‘good’ to win in fantasy novels otherwise it’s ‘same old, same old’..
I heard about this rubbish theory. Even if Grindelwald wasn't the rightful owner Dumbledore surely was when he properly won the wand. To me besting could be even a simple disarming. Either way Voldemort still lost because he wasn't the owner of the wand, and the wand was loyal to his owner at the time- Harry. I also don't think that owning the wand has anything to do with power like some people might suggest. The wand chose to be loyal to Harry who was a mediocre wizard. So no it's not about power it's about simply disarming.
Harry Potter 9: Harry Crackhead and the Cursed Pipe
I think that while an ordinary wand may change allegiance by dueling the elder wand itself seeks out power and those willing to wield its deathly power. The elder wand doesn't have a master, only those who become slave to it's power only to be betrayed to a stronger witch or wizard.
This theory does not answer the title of the video. In fact, it creates the question "how did Harry beat Voldemort?" because if Harry was not the true owner of the Elder Wand and Voldemort was, there is no obvious explanation for why Harry would have won that last duel. You are fail.
A very interesting theory
Nagini killed Snape. She is a witch. She is the owner. Until storebrand Harry kills her.
Neville kills Nagini, not Harry.
@ThamiorSilberdrache Neville is storebrand Harry.
Harry won because he was the main character
that is exactly what I thought
I wonder if the elder wand can bring people back from the dead?
Could Harry and his friends be able to stop Grindelwald?
Dumbledore planned everything.
Too many ifs and maybes. Constantly redefining "streangth"
The wand chooses the wizard
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The real reason Voldermort was Trans and JK Rowling was not going to have that abomination winning
JK Rowling has already confirmed that Harry was the master of the elder wand. So this video is pointless.
Not considering that the reason for Harry's ownership is important as well as the fact of it. To say that this video is pointless, is actually lazy commentary.
@sueevansProoovviitt "not considering that the reason for harrys ownership is important as well as the fact of it"
WTF even is that sentence?
It is important that Harry is the master of the elder wand. I never said it wasn't. This video postures that it was questionable whether Dumbledore was ever the master of the elder wand. The only way Harry becomes master of it is because he disarms Draco, who had disarmed Dumbledore at the top of the astronomy tower. The chain of events starts with Dumbledore being the master of it to begin with. Hence, my point of this video being pointless.
@@sueevansProoovviittno it's not he disarmed Draco who had his arm dumbledore therefore Harry was the true master at the older one your comment makes no sense
The reason Harry defeated Voldemort is the same reason that Voldemort could not defeat Harry as a baby: he had a very powerful shield charm caused by the love of a recently-deceased individual, in this case himself. All of Hogwarts had this charm cast upon it upon Harry’s death, and it remained in place when Harry chose to come back. Not even the Elder Wand was a match for this charm.
Did you get a new mic? Doesnt sound like you. Lol
Total Bunk
Its a FICTION story...
The reason that Voldemort didn’t come to the US is we’d have a wand in one hand and a Glock in the other
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Um he stunned the owner he stole it from. But i believe the owner is decided by the wand on who is more powerft so itd never choose voldy because he was scared to die.