It changes THE IDEA of Star Citizen. Until it's actually in-game, we don't know just what it will do, but this could have a HUGE impact on how the game is MEANT to work as we previously understood.
This has been an interesting topic since it was announced, what ... 2 years ago? A MMO space sim that wants to become SciFiLife 2.0 practically needs bases. Specifically because there are roles / positions on crewed ships that scream _"return from an extended tour of duty in space giving way to much deserved shore leave and quality time with family & friends."_ Though I'm not exactly sure how SC could implement & foster the whole family thing. Unless they went all Sims Online or something. Anyway, I'm guessing many would like space to be their wage-earning activity while having a homestead base they can call their own.
It also adds 3 years of development time at least. It also tells you that nothing CIG ever said can be taken seriously. It was clearly stated years ago that SC won't have crafting. Crafting is also something that could be added after the release. I am not unhappy over this addition but in my view this is another attempt to battle the increasing frustration of backers. At the cost of prolonged development time. More broken systems, more details to fix, more messy code, instead of a game where crafting is actually useful.... And the bases will be as interesting as the ones in Starfield or Fallout, because there is nothing you can do with them. People don't buy ships to have them sit on their porch while players stand around and look at the scenery.
The change in vision bothers me a lot. To me this looks too much like any and every other early access survival game. Some PvE content sure. But too much PvP related content. I was always excited for the 9/10 AI to player interactions. Now it seems like 1/10 AI to player interactions is the goal. I wanted to live my space fantasy. The change in vision seems like i'll just be fueling someone elses who leads a huge org.
To me the crafting is an abandonment of core things that made the promise of Star Citizen. Dynamic economy,; nah, MMO crafting. Robust lore regarding industry and commerce; nah, MMO crafting. An economy the players represent 10% of; nah, MMO crafting 😢
I saw a lot of complains on reddit that this year's citizencon was too speculative and conceptual and not enough information about whats going to happen next year. But to me, this is the first time I could really see how this game will actually work and why it will be fun, and the scope seems to be something they can actually deliver. Even if it will take a few more years...
Now this, is what the space civilization would really look like. Industrial expansion with the absurdly advanced technologies. Still, there are some lacked backbone structure of the society in the game but this is really cool. An entire industry line is constructed to operate a mini-society with dedicated economy. This is immensely cool indeed.
I feel like this system does a lot to increase player agency, as it gives us a lot more options and things to work with. It's a direction that works well for many games, however I think it takes too much away from the NPC economy we're supposed to have here. When guns built by a reputed weapon company like Behring, or ships made by an established manufacturer like Crusader who even bought an entire planet to facilitate ship construction ends up producing items that aren't as good as the stuff random players can build in their backyard, complete with the original manufacturer's logo and everything, it makes the world economy feel like a joke to be ignored entirely while players just trade amongst themselves if they want anything worth obtaining. I liked the idea of being just a dude who takes part in a big universe that's doing great without me, and feeling like taking part in it by buying items from those fancy NPC shop was me getting getting rewarded for taking part in something greater. Doing the same thing now means I'm just making due with second grade stuff until I can afford the better versions built by the average Joe who didn't use bottom tier materials instead.
@@DanyF02 I’m inclined to agree with your points. A player driven economy is definitely going to skew sales of guns, armor, ships and so on. I think it will definitely be felt when the scope of star citizen is limited to 5 systems. That being said, if cig is to be believed then I’m not sure how much player driven sales will affect things over the long term. If they were to deliver on say 80% of all the systems in the SC universe, I’m not sure the impact of player driven sales would be as severe, as there are more AI traders and systems to cover for all the player created stuff. Another point worth considering is that player made stuff may only improve on the stock designs and functions in some way, but doesn’t entirely exceed them across the board. I suppose time will tell how player made stuff will truly affect gameplay balance and so on.
It actually takes away from the player agency due to knock down effects - Player-driven economy can't be complex in terms of production chain length or number of people involved or it will stall on low player activity periods. Which means there is much less opportunity for traders to inject themselves into the economy - NPC economy is no longer simulated but rather is a reactive system meant to balance out failures of the player economy, which means there is no impact on the world from the player trading with npcs - As a consequence of both and due to other design choices (replacing player skill with reputation progression) the player-driven economy is naturally included to down-scale to the level of your org (large orgs with strive for self-sufficiency) or your alliance (every other org will have to join an alliance or get locked out of the progression). Incidentally, 2012 design had a gameplay mechanic very similar to the crafting they did - tuning - with one very important difference. The tuning was a secondary equipment progression, not a primary one, which allowed it to rely on a more complex/deep game loops as the main progression was just monetary and thus very generic. This change is really a huge downgrade like pretty much all the changes they've made - they took various secondary elements of the original design, ripped them out of the mechanical context and smashed together resulting in a much more shallow and problematic design
I tend to agree with your overarching concern. I think a good approach could be a system where you could produce an item (say small arms), but to do so you would have to purchase a license from the manufacturer that would be an ongoing fee (or tax paid on the sale or even a VAT style tax paid upon production) that would allow you to produce the item. The price or tax for the right to produce would have to be high enough that the seller would have to price his goods higher than the standard items being sold by the corps issuing the license. So, even purchasing a like kind standard weapon from a player seller would be more expensive since he would have the licensing cost to recoup. If the player or corp can add value to the item being sold, then they can justify selling at a higher price for a more premium product. In the real world I think this is how various "Gucci" Glocks are made for pistol enthusiasts. I'm not exactly sure if these producers have to purchase a license to produce from Glock or if they are working from expired public domain patents on older Gen Glocks, but either way, various companies produce Glock style pistols. Some for example are designed for competition shooters who demand the highest quality and tightest tolerances and they pay a premium for such an item.
I definitely feel something similar, and I've been theorycrafting a system that I think works for me, I'm not done with the finishing touches yet but basically it'd boil down to upgrades being viewed as like aftermarket mods (possibly with small downsides included such as higher misfire chances, the downsides should be heavily outweighed by the upsides) so that's why manufacturers don't sell them. Then you can have more specialised shops that sell like "base stat" higher tier items so that player crafted still has higher upside but there's some way to buy tiered items from shops. Also no ships that are sold from manufacturers should have easily available blueprints (the upgrade blueprints should be rare but not unavailable). Like I should have to hit max rep with a manufacturer before they let me have a blueprint. This would make stealing blueprints (from npcs I mean) more lucrative. Also there should be no legal way to obtain a lot of blueprints such as military gear (or very very few legal ways, and just finishing SQ42 shouldn't be enough for more than say 1 ship). I say this as a purely lawful player. There should even be extra steps you need to take to make sure that when your military ship or gun is detected you have some fake clearance for it.
A lot of this is exciting to me. All of it really. Long ago I decided that I didn't particularly care for the direction the flight model was going and I decided I would instead be an industrial player, not a combat one. I decided my end goal was to be able to mine, salvage, grow, research, etc to make goods which I could then sell to players. I picked up the BMM and Privateer to provide storefronts. This is all leading to exactly what I wanted to do (though now that we can build storefronts in bases, it does make me question my BMM/Privateer). One of the things I really like about this though is that I can see the best setup being to have multiple bases, such as a store setup in a lawful well traveled system (probably Terra for me) but also resource outposts in other areas, even unlawful ones. You then need to built a distribution network across all those. Honestly I could have a hell of a lot of fun with this entire system in a Single Player game, but we'll see how much I can manage to do in this MMO :) Really looking forward to it all! And if anyone has need of building services, me and my Pioneer will be available for hire :D
Well made video. Informational without being boring, exciting but without being naive. The content comes across as a journalistic in nature. Well crafted mate.
This game to me is the spiritual successor to SWG, the crafting system proposed here matches SWG almost to a T and SWG absolutely nailed crafting back in the day. The only things I didn't see addressed was how do you stop some pleb from building a structure in the middle of your base in lawless systems (we had player owned cities which effectively reserved a chunk of area that only people with permission to do so could build structures) or how the resource quality and deposit size will be determined and distributed. My hope is that's done server side where someone can't develop an app to read that data and effectively meta-game it.
> The only things I didn't see addressed was how do you stop some pleb from building a structure in the middle of your base in lawless systems Pretty sure that's up to you. There is no mechanic.
correction at 2:15: The primary material changing quality and secondary material changing yield/speed and catalyst changing speed was mentioned for refining blueprints only. You notice in the screenshot that the secondary material effects fire rate. Check the 'CitizenCon 2954: Crafting Your Home' video at 10:16. Quote: "most items require multiple different materials to make which may *each* influence different stats"
This has to be some of the best content I've watched. You're interesting, don't yap too long about certain stuff, and have a killer voice. Thanks for giving me a good 15:40 minutes.
To me CIG should get a few Dungeon Masters (Space Masters) once more systems come online What I could do with a Vanndul Clan fleet just show up in the Stanton System for example.
I remember in Star Wars Galaxies, I was a "Master Artisan". I had gotten REALLY good at making the absolute highest quality items. My stores were in Tatooine but people would come from every planet to buy my Med Kits, Armor and Weapons. The game that replaced it had NONE of this and was so boring I only lasted a few weeks.
If they can pull off the SWG crafting and building, it will make SC a great game, when it finally launches. I might have to will my account to my next of kin at this pace though.
That would be cool if star citizen created an abandoned system where if the org or last player hasn't been within vicinity or kept the base up and running for a certain time, they shod allow npc, bandits, etc populate it and create it of its own, or also set it to just being fully abandoned with nature over running it with animals and flora lol it would be sick.
I'd like to see a video deep diving into what we think the PVP system, specifically around Shields and base protection will look like. Avenger 1 Recently did a video on this but made some assumptions that seem to be faulty, specifically on how building tokens only happens from the core space station in each shard. How is cig going to prevent a huge org-like test Squadron from dominating the token bidding each week? How will they prevent offline base raiding? Things like this.
My pet theory is that Tony Z is out because of the pivot to crafting.. someone else is running the econ now. It's not even called Quanta anymore (StarSim)
It's been recently confirmed he's still working at CIG and supports the new econ team. No idea what he's actually still doing there, though. And StarSim is just Quanta, renamed/refined. Can't remember where I read that though, but IIRC it was from CIG.
@@Arocksy A content creator ran into him on the street recently, that's where the report about him still working at CIG comes from. They literally asked him directly. I just can't remember which it was.
I have been looking forward to this since the Pioneer was reveled years ago. Before then, base building and crafting was only a rumor. In other game servers, I love to craft and build as much as exploring. It's how I live in such games. However, I expect most of the better blueprints to be far too large to be physicalized and portable on some small portable device. A small starship likely has over 100,000 draws, CAM files and spec pages associated with it. A capital starship likely has millions of such sub files associated with it's blueprints. Yes I am thinking in hundreds of petabytes or even yottabytes of data to be transferred. Hardly small device portable even with Star Citizen tech
Tell them it'd be foolish. If they want to give up a year of playing, might as well give up over 2 for 1.0 when there aren't any wipes. Bases will require resources. You can start hoarding them after the 4.0 reset which is the perfect time to do mining and salvaging
@@hollywoodguy70 4.0 reset won't be the last reset. once 1.0 comes out we officially will no longer get wipes. The downside to this is if you start hoarding resources in 4.0, then it will do you no good when the final reset happens for 1.0.
Bro aybe in 12 more years, right now I cant even get to my ship from elevator/terminal bugs , even their website is borked, cant do character repair. Hard to get excited when you know the state of optimization is this bad and nothing works properly.
You're not supposed to be excited, ur supposed to be testing and reporting back, they just dropped a massive patch which is on the 4.0 codebase, so yeah it'll take a minute to smooth out, but is getting us prepared for 4.0 so when that drops it is broken for less time. it is part of the alpha process. how many IC reports have you contributed to? Sounds like you want a complete game, maybe try Elite or Starfield.
Exactly. Plenty of SC orgs that operate like a structured collective of autonomous players, where folks that want to play "solo" can still do so but reap the benefits of being a part of an org. There's really no reason to go completely lone wolf, even if you don't want to cooperate much with others.
We are excited for this, I had 3 meetings with different orgs and it was so interesting how the discussion of 1.0 has defined what we all want to do. My org will be based in Castra acting as waypoint supply and logistics hub with some fleet support. And we look forward with doing business with you and many others in the future!
I think there is a mistake in this video, I say think because obviously we are all trying to figure this out from just these presentations. Anyway at around @2:20 it is mentioned that when crafting the quality of the primary resource matters for stats, and the secondary for quantity. I don't think this is true. I think this is true for REFINING but for crafting items, all resource quality matters.
Well, i dont know if i need basebuilding stuff. What i need is more coehesive and player friendly experience, that allows for more drop in-drop out approach (playing when u have small children) that wont penalise me bcause i had to turn off game earlier than i planned.
Crafting and Base building really are the main gameplay loops that will complete the game for me. Besides optimization and polished bug fixes, if they released the game with just the current gameplay loops + crafting and base building, i would be extremely content. That being said, the reality of when we see these is looking awfully grim. They will literally take every single craftable item (1000+ items), and then figure out what are good crafting recipes for every single one. Then balance each and every one so that it makes sense logically and is not too easy to acquire but not a ridiculous grind either. The version of Base building they outlined for SC, our eventual 100% persistence world, will take the game to the next level. I hate to revisit the imagination hype train, but cannot help but think about the many implications these features will have. Being able to connect your land with your friend's land, or being able to buy multiple plots that surround your main plot would mean you could create a massive base/town. I don't have to tell you how cool this concept is, but I will anyway! Imagine flying around and discovering a large town on a random planet. Upon investigation of it, you begin to realize that this town is no ordinary town in SC's current standards. You find out this town is completely and persistently created by player(s). The amount of dynamism this brings to the highly detailed but "empty" landscapes allows for players be able to truly populate the world. Imagine 2 years into SC after 1.0. How large player made bases/towns would reach. If there is any indication we can see with the large tower that kicked off the industrial segment of the base building presentation, is that I think CIG plan on giving players Skyscrapers. This mixed with "building interiors" means we could have entire cities that are player created and ran. Imagine finding a place to call your own. You buy a bunch of plots in a large cluster. Then you start leasing those plots for the purpose of being the town mayor/owner that eventually grows from your small homestead you created. I think of games like Sim City. Imagine Sim City but in Star Citizen and with real players as the people you have to keep happy. Of course I hope CIG has land leasing mechanics in mind for people who can lease out land to people who don't necessarily have the funds (UEC or $$$) to be able to afford land. I know this entire comment is a huge puff of hopium imagination, but everything I just outlined is actually reasonable with the mechanics they outlined at Citizen Con. I am really excited for this kind of gameplay and hope we see a very basic version of base building by the end of 2025 in game. Speaking of 2025, I am curious as to what features from citizen con we can expect to see. This is why I don't mind CIG giving estimated dates. It lets me know how excited I should get for the potential of a good year. Sadly most of what was shown off this year looks a minimum of 2-8 years with the most ambitious stuff, cough*** cough*** org stations, taking every bit of that time.
It can't come any sooner. I like it when purpose is behind what you do, and everything is about UEC. Now with items and ships having tiers, there is more to think about than just UEC.
"Base building was never even a stretch goal"... "oh that 9:1 npc ratio? Nahhh. Maybe **post** 1.0-- but base building in for 1.0, so buy our new base buidling ships: money pleeees"
IDK why but i feel like blueprints should be a one time use, and not a permenant "learn". Then maybe at higher skill levels you could use resources to write blueprints. Would add more dynamic gameplay loops and less of a linear progression, as I just see crafting becoming stale for long term players
I don't think this game will be ever finished unless they put a lot of energy in creating a narrative (singleplayer/coop style) that drives you into the universe (in ohter words, more sq42 into sc) and also and extremely important put a lot of energy on AI npcs and be able to completely create an immersive experience in the universe. The base building looks amazing but I'm genuinely concerned about all this stuff and pyro, ending up feeling exactly as "dead" as Stanton. I need a story, I need real living NPCS in the universe. I think CR has done the impossible: he has created the hardcore base for the perfect game, investing resources to make the impossible happen. It would be sad and a shame that the universe ends up feeling dead or like just a meaningless sanbox in a "big map". I still trusting the process. Just sharing my thoughts about the current state of the game. Been here... how long? 13 years? I can wait another 7, np. Just deliver. JUST DO IT CHRIS!
frustrating part is seeing all this cool new stuff and playing the game only to realize the actual game is nothing like advertised. will be a while before it's worth reinstalling
@@a.j.6832should be worth reinstalling when 4.0 gets released Even if not... still good to reinstall to be part of server meshing testing which gives valuable data so they can make it better
Ultima Online? Star Wars Galaxies? Eve Online? These are classics. If we're going on this direction, that dude that deleted his $1500 account ja going to be crying in a couple of years. I'm waiting
They have done the right thing bringing in Organisations into the game just hope it takes time to build as it would be ridulous to see 50 Organistations building 1 bengal carrier a week that to me would be stupidity for me a bengal carrier should take four months to build. Among other Capital ships. Saying that 5 Systems will not be enough for every organistaion to build large bases. To me Pyro would be the worse base to set up a base. I don't agree with Minerals depleting just having rates reduce most games have learnt that and realise that with only 5 Systems Star Citizen at present it will not be able to mines wiill not be able to be depleted.
Not a fan of blueprints. By the time I gain enough reputation from Crusader to get a blueprint for C1, I have made enough money to buy a C2. Meanwhile today, I can go on google and find blueprints for Keaton's Batmobile. Would rather see crafting to make things better than stock, not the ability to craft everything in game. I see they showed the ability to custom paint our outposts... 12:16 Welp, I am sure we will get that just after we get hex codes. So maybe another 6 years. Only been 8 years since they first mentioned that we would get hex codes for ships and that they were nearly done making that possible.
If you ever played rust on non teamsize restricted servers, you will know that basebuilding will be the death of SC for the casual player, vecause nolifers will band together and drive everyone out, simply by having unlimited time and resources at their disposal.
Bases won't work until we are playing in one big universe server. There cannot be multiple versions of your base across multiple servers. Sure hope server meshing gets sorted out, otherwise it is all just talk.
More new features that "change everything". How many of those revelations have we had already over the last 12 years? What it changes is the release date which gets further away with every new feature. But I guess this is intended to keep backers hyped and give SQ42 more time to simmer (I would have said "cook" but cooking is usually faster.)
Idea's are great. Unfortunately I haven't seen any real ideas make into PU other than ships to raise money. Well anything meaningful as far as gameplay is concerned.
Just dreams, no hard progress. They cant even get inventory or equipment right... And the biggest flaw: it will be multiplayer online. With all the cheaters and griefers out there this will be frustrating and shitty like tarkov. Every year i install SC to get an idea of the progress and its still the same buggy walking sim for the last 4 years.
Cheaters are going to be really drawn to this one. I love the idea of base building/full loot PVP but if it ends up anything like ARK official server PVP solos/small groups on low security areas doomed, and will be off-lined instantly.
I have a feeling cheaters will not be a thing because it would be too much effort for them to go out of their way to fck with other people since Star Citizen is huge Maybe even the wormhole travel will filter them out since they hopefully can't cheat that / aimbot for wormhole travel lol
@@kajmak64bit76 I think you severely underestimate their determination, and love of ruining other people's in game lives. If there's a way to ESP the whole planet, and find everyone's obscure canyon, swamp base, etc they'll raid it. Also I really hope I'm not playing with people outside of North America when all this is out, since getting off-lined by players with a time zone advantage is a pretty awful.
Yeah, I'm imagining Rust in space. With the size of planets and the possibility of putting your base into stealth mode (scanning mechanics may make it possible to power down your base for it to be not picked up unless you are basically right on top of it) that may somewhat reduce the amount of offline raiding, but of course, that won't stop people from doing it (once you know where a base is you don't need to scan for it again). I'm sure they have thought about this, but we shall have to see what their solution will be (they may just say, if you want complete protection build in high-sec or win the 'shield token war' otherwise be prepared to defend 24/7).
@@callsigngrimdoll It's nice we have 1 solution already, but it would be really nice if it were possible to maintain a small base on a low security planet for whatever purpose for at least a week, or two. That should be possible for solos/small group players.
It changes THE IDEA of Star Citizen. Until it's actually in-game, we don't know just what it will do, but this could have a HUGE impact on how the game is MEANT to work as we previously understood.
This has been an interesting topic since it was announced, what ... 2 years ago? A MMO space sim that wants to become SciFiLife 2.0 practically needs bases. Specifically because there are roles / positions on crewed ships that scream _"return from an extended tour of duty in space giving way to much deserved shore leave and quality time with family & friends."_ Though I'm not exactly sure how SC could implement & foster the whole family thing. Unless they went all Sims Online or something. Anyway, I'm guessing many would like space to be their wage-earning activity while having a homestead base they can call their own.
It also adds 3 years of development time at least. It also tells you that nothing CIG ever said can be taken seriously. It was clearly stated years ago that SC won't have crafting. Crafting is also something that could be added after the release.
I am not unhappy over this addition but in my view this is another attempt to battle the increasing frustration of backers. At the cost of prolonged development time. More broken systems, more details to fix, more messy code, instead of a game where crafting is actually useful.... And the bases will be as interesting as the ones in Starfield or Fallout, because there is nothing you can do with them. People don't buy ships to have them sit on their porch while players stand around and look at the scenery.
The change in vision bothers me a lot. To me this looks too much like any and every other early access survival game. Some PvE content sure. But too much PvP related content. I was always excited for the 9/10 AI to player interactions. Now it seems like 1/10 AI to player interactions is the goal. I wanted to live my space fantasy. The change in vision seems like i'll just be fueling someone elses who leads a huge org.
@@gearsamp92 I feel exactly the same way. I am glad I'm not alone.
To me the crafting is an abandonment of core things that made the promise of Star Citizen. Dynamic economy,; nah, MMO crafting. Robust lore regarding industry and commerce; nah, MMO crafting. An economy the players represent 10% of; nah, MMO crafting 😢
Looking forward to upgrading hotdogs with tier 3 wagyu quazigrazer meat.
But the fact that I could if I wanted to is the kind of sandbox feature I can get behind.
Quasi grazer*
Wagyu grazer
I saw a lot of complains on reddit that this year's citizencon was too speculative and conceptual and not enough information about whats going to happen next year. But to me, this is the first time I could really see how this game will actually work and why it will be fun, and the scope seems to be something they can actually deliver. Even if it will take a few more years...
I like how they're following what SWG did for base building, resource gathering and crafting.
Can't wait till see all this in 5-10 years.
3 hours worth of info from cit con delivered in an easier to digest and understand manner in 15 minutes. The ultimate TLDR. good job tomato
Now this, is what the space civilization would really look like. Industrial expansion with the absurdly advanced technologies. Still, there are some lacked backbone structure of the society in the game but this is really cool. An entire industry line is constructed to operate a mini-society with dedicated economy. This is immensely cool indeed.
These are the kinds of features we so desperately need to give meaning and purpose to this game.
I feel like this system does a lot to increase player agency, as it gives us a lot more options and things to work with. It's a direction that works well for many games, however I think it takes too much away from the NPC economy we're supposed to have here.
When guns built by a reputed weapon company like Behring, or ships made by an established manufacturer like Crusader who even bought an entire planet to facilitate ship construction ends up producing items that aren't as good as the stuff random players can build in their backyard, complete with the original manufacturer's logo and everything, it makes the world economy feel like a joke to be ignored entirely while players just trade amongst themselves if they want anything worth obtaining.
I liked the idea of being just a dude who takes part in a big universe that's doing great without me, and feeling like taking part in it by buying items from those fancy NPC shop was me getting getting rewarded for taking part in something greater. Doing the same thing now means I'm just making due with second grade stuff until I can afford the better versions built by the average Joe who didn't use bottom tier materials instead.
I feel the same way. I'm not happy in the direction the game is supposedly going.
@@DanyF02 I’m inclined to agree with your points. A player driven economy is definitely going to skew sales of guns, armor, ships and so on. I think it will definitely be felt when the scope of star citizen is limited to 5 systems. That being said, if cig is to be believed then I’m not sure how much player driven sales will affect things over the long term. If they were to deliver on say 80% of all the systems in the SC universe, I’m not sure the impact of player driven sales would be as severe, as there are more AI traders and systems to cover for all the player created stuff.
Another point worth considering is that player made stuff may only improve on the stock designs and functions in some way, but doesn’t entirely exceed them across the board. I suppose time will tell how player made stuff will truly affect gameplay balance and so on.
It actually takes away from the player agency due to knock down effects
- Player-driven economy can't be complex in terms of production chain length or number of people involved or it will stall on low player activity periods. Which means there is much less opportunity for traders to inject themselves into the economy
- NPC economy is no longer simulated but rather is a reactive system meant to balance out failures of the player economy, which means there is no impact on the world from the player trading with npcs
- As a consequence of both and due to other design choices (replacing player skill with reputation progression) the player-driven economy is naturally included to down-scale to the level of your org (large orgs with strive for self-sufficiency) or your alliance (every other org will have to join an alliance or get locked out of the progression).
Incidentally, 2012 design had a gameplay mechanic very similar to the crafting they did - tuning - with one very important difference. The tuning was a secondary equipment progression, not a primary one, which allowed it to rely on a more complex/deep game loops as the main progression was just monetary and thus very generic.
This change is really a huge downgrade like pretty much all the changes they've made - they took various secondary elements of the original design, ripped them out of the mechanical context and smashed together resulting in a much more shallow and problematic design
I tend to agree with your overarching concern. I think a good approach could be a system where you could produce an item (say small arms), but to do so you would have to purchase a license from the manufacturer that would be an ongoing fee (or tax paid on the sale or even a VAT style tax paid upon production) that would allow you to produce the item. The price or tax for the right to produce would have to be high enough that the seller would have to price his goods higher than the standard items being sold by the corps issuing the license. So, even purchasing a like kind standard weapon from a player seller would be more expensive since he would have the licensing cost to recoup. If the player or corp can add value to the item being sold, then they can justify selling at a higher price for a more premium product.
In the real world I think this is how various "Gucci" Glocks are made for pistol enthusiasts. I'm not exactly sure if these producers have to purchase a license to produce from Glock or if they are working from expired public domain patents on older Gen Glocks, but either way, various companies produce Glock style pistols. Some for example are designed for competition shooters who demand the highest quality and tightest tolerances and they pay a premium for such an item.
I definitely feel something similar, and I've been theorycrafting a system that I think works for me, I'm not done with the finishing touches yet but basically it'd boil down to upgrades being viewed as like aftermarket mods (possibly with small downsides included such as higher misfire chances, the downsides should be heavily outweighed by the upsides) so that's why manufacturers don't sell them. Then you can have more specialised shops that sell like "base stat" higher tier items so that player crafted still has higher upside but there's some way to buy tiered items from shops. Also no ships that are sold from manufacturers should have easily available blueprints (the upgrade blueprints should be rare but not unavailable). Like I should have to hit max rep with a manufacturer before they let me have a blueprint. This would make stealing blueprints (from npcs I mean) more lucrative. Also there should be no legal way to obtain a lot of blueprints such as military gear (or very very few legal ways, and just finishing SQ42 shouldn't be enough for more than say 1 ship). I say this as a purely lawful player. There should even be extra steps you need to take to make sure that when your military ship or gun is detected you have some fake clearance for it.
A lot of this is exciting to me. All of it really. Long ago I decided that I didn't particularly care for the direction the flight model was going and I decided I would instead be an industrial player, not a combat one. I decided my end goal was to be able to mine, salvage, grow, research, etc to make goods which I could then sell to players. I picked up the BMM and Privateer to provide storefronts.
This is all leading to exactly what I wanted to do (though now that we can build storefronts in bases, it does make me question my BMM/Privateer).
One of the things I really like about this though is that I can see the best setup being to have multiple bases, such as a store setup in a lawful well traveled system (probably Terra for me) but also resource outposts in other areas, even unlawful ones. You then need to built a distribution network across all those.
Honestly I could have a hell of a lot of fun with this entire system in a Single Player game, but we'll see how much I can manage to do in this MMO :)
Really looking forward to it all! And if anyone has need of building services, me and my Pioneer will be available for hire :D
Well-scripted and informational video. Nice one, ST. =)
Star Wars Galaxies is exactly the way I explained the player housing the crafting.
Finally.
Well made video. Informational without being boring, exciting but without being naive. The content comes across as a journalistic in nature.
Well crafted mate.
This game to me is the spiritual successor to SWG, the crafting system proposed here matches SWG almost to a T and SWG absolutely nailed crafting back in the day. The only things I didn't see addressed was how do you stop some pleb from building a structure in the middle of your base in lawless systems (we had player owned cities which effectively reserved a chunk of area that only people with permission to do so could build structures) or how the resource quality and deposit size will be determined and distributed. My hope is that's done server side where someone can't develop an app to read that data and effectively meta-game it.
> The only things I didn't see addressed was how do you stop some pleb from building a structure in the middle of your base in lawless systems
Pretty sure that's up to you. There is no mechanic.
@@spacewombat4569 on LAWFUL systems this is the case. In lawless systems I don't believe it is. There are no land claims on say Pyro.
Awesome job Mr T. Soooo excited.
Thank you!
correction at 2:15:
The primary material changing quality and secondary material changing yield/speed and catalyst changing speed was mentioned for refining blueprints only.
You notice in the screenshot that the secondary material effects fire rate.
Check the 'CitizenCon 2954: Crafting Your Home' video at 10:16. Quote: "most items require multiple different materials to make which may *each* influence different stats"
Nice video very clear and entertaining to watch
Thanks for watching Dutch!
Tomato! You make explain everything so clearly. I appreciate it.
This has to be some of the best content I've watched. You're interesting, don't yap too long about certain stuff, and have a killer voice. Thanks for giving me a good 15:40 minutes.
If they let us modify the titan suits to be a few times larger, I am sold! again!
I wonder if NPC manufacturers and base holders also partake in buying resources and half-products (in relation to their economic activity).
To me CIG should get a few Dungeon Masters (Space Masters) once more systems come online What I could do with a Vanndul Clan fleet just show up in the Stanton System for example.
Have loved your videos lately, man, it's become a daily visit to your page. Keep up with rad work.♡
Great summary of a lot of info! Looking forward to the future of SC!
Thank you! So am I!
I remember in Star Wars Galaxies, I was a "Master Artisan". I had gotten REALLY good at making the absolute highest quality items. My stores were in Tatooine but people would come from every planet to buy my Med Kits, Armor and Weapons. The game that replaced it had NONE of this and was so boring I only lasted a few weeks.
Star Wars Galaxies mention!
If they can pull off the SWG crafting and building, it will make SC a great game, when it finally launches. I might have to will my account to my next of kin at this pace though.
That would be cool if star citizen created an abandoned system where if the org or last player hasn't been within vicinity or kept the base up and running for a certain time, they shod allow npc, bandits, etc populate it and create it of its own, or also set it to just being fully abandoned with nature over running it with animals and flora lol it would be sick.
I'd like to see a video deep diving into what we think the PVP system, specifically around Shields and base protection will look like. Avenger 1 Recently did a video on this but made some assumptions that seem to be faulty, specifically on how building tokens only happens from the core space station in each shard. How is cig going to prevent a huge org-like test Squadron from dominating the token bidding each week? How will they prevent offline base raiding? Things like this.
Great job on this one. So excited for crafting and base building!
My pet theory is that Tony Z is out because of the pivot to crafting.. someone else is running the econ now. It's not even called Quanta anymore (StarSim)
It's been recently confirmed he's still working at CIG and supports the new econ team. No idea what he's actually still doing there, though. And StarSim is just Quanta, renamed/refined. Can't remember where I read that though, but IIRC it was from CIG.
@@DustinHarms last mention of quantum was in 2023. And it’s on hold. Have you seen Tony Z lately? I’m not.
@@Arocksy A content creator ran into him on the street recently, that's where the report about him still working at CIG comes from. They literally asked him directly. I just can't remember which it was.
This is a nice development-base building would definitely enhance the SC experience!
I have been looking forward to this since the Pioneer was reveled years ago. Before then, base building and crafting was only a rumor. In other game servers, I love to craft and build as much as exploring. It's how I live in such games. However, I expect most of the better blueprints to be far too large to be physicalized and portable on some small portable device. A small starship likely has over 100,000 draws, CAM files and spec pages associated with it. A capital starship likely has millions of such sub files associated with it's blueprints. Yes I am thinking in hundreds of petabytes or even yottabytes of data to be transferred. Hardly small device portable even with Star Citizen tech
SC coming out so late that I think this generation of players doesn't have to worry about this Tomato. ;)
I know many people who are waiting to play until base building is added. It would also give us a reason to play.
Tell them it'd be foolish. If they want to give up a year of playing, might as well give up over 2 for 1.0 when there aren't any wipes. Bases will require resources. You can start hoarding them after the 4.0 reset which is the perfect time to do mining and salvaging
@@hollywoodguy70 lol if you think 2 years for 1.0.
@@hollywoodguy70 4.0 reset won't be the last reset. once 1.0 comes out we officially will no longer get wipes. The downside to this is if you start hoarding resources in 4.0, then it will do you no good when the final reset happens for 1.0.
Nice job!!
Bro aybe in 12 more years, right now I cant even get to my ship from elevator/terminal bugs , even their website is borked, cant do character repair. Hard to get excited when you know the state of optimization is this bad and nothing works properly.
You're not supposed to be excited, ur supposed to be testing and reporting back, they just dropped a massive patch which is on the 4.0 codebase, so yeah it'll take a minute to smooth out, but is getting us prepared for 4.0 so when that drops it is broken for less time. it is part of the alpha process. how many IC reports have you contributed to? Sounds like you want a complete game, maybe try Elite or Starfield.
I've changed my mind about playing solo. I'm going to join an organization so I can acquire and sell valuable items with their support.
Exactly. Plenty of SC orgs that operate like a structured collective of autonomous players, where folks that want to play "solo" can still do so but reap the benefits of being a part of an org. There's really no reason to go completely lone wolf, even if you don't want to cooperate much with others.
Crafting and base building where always a goal in game go back and check the stretch goals. But bad management has screwed us now for 12 years
Why the ppl suprised, i didnt expect less, if its should be emersive thats the next step
No info on NPCs in the game for path to 1.0 has me thinking this will be all player driven. At least at first
Ability to land on planets was added in late 2017, not 2016 btw
We are excited for this, I had 3 meetings with different orgs and it was so interesting how the discussion of 1.0 has defined what we all want to do. My org will be based in Castra acting as waypoint supply and logistics hub with some fleet support. And we look forward with doing business with you and many others in the future!
I think there is a mistake in this video, I say think because obviously we are all trying to figure this out from just these presentations.
Anyway at around @2:20 it is mentioned that when crafting the quality of the primary resource matters for stats, and the secondary for quantity. I don't think this is true. I think this is true for REFINING but for crafting items, all resource quality matters.
Nice rundown. I always appreciate the time and effort you put into these vids. Thanks Tomato. I'm super pumped for the future of this game!
I'm wondering where overclocking with a supercollider will fit in to this.
These videos are so good
Well, i dont know if i need basebuilding stuff. What i need is more coehesive and player friendly experience, that allows for more drop in-drop out approach (playing when u have small children) that wont penalise me bcause i had to turn off game earlier than i planned.
Crafting and Base building really are the main gameplay loops that will complete the game for me. Besides optimization and polished bug fixes, if they released the game with just the current gameplay loops + crafting and base building, i would be extremely content. That being said, the reality of when we see these is looking awfully grim. They will literally take every single craftable item (1000+ items), and then figure out what are good crafting recipes for every single one. Then balance each and every one so that it makes sense logically and is not too easy to acquire but not a ridiculous grind either. The version of Base building they outlined for SC, our eventual 100% persistence world, will take the game to the next level. I hate to revisit the imagination hype train, but cannot help but think about the many implications these features will have. Being able to connect your land with your friend's land, or being able to buy multiple plots that surround your main plot would mean you could create a massive base/town. I don't have to tell you how cool this concept is, but I will anyway! Imagine flying around and discovering a large town on a random planet. Upon investigation of it, you begin to realize that this town is no ordinary town in SC's current standards. You find out this town is completely and persistently created by player(s). The amount of dynamism this brings to the highly detailed but "empty" landscapes allows for players be able to truly populate the world. Imagine 2 years into SC after 1.0. How large player made bases/towns would reach. If there is any indication we can see with the large tower that kicked off the industrial segment of the base building presentation, is that I think CIG plan on giving players Skyscrapers. This mixed with "building interiors" means we could have entire cities that are player created and ran. Imagine finding a place to call your own. You buy a bunch of plots in a large cluster. Then you start leasing those plots for the purpose of being the town mayor/owner that eventually grows from your small homestead you created. I think of games like Sim City. Imagine Sim City but in Star Citizen and with real players as the people you have to keep happy. Of course I hope CIG has land leasing mechanics in mind for people who can lease out land to people who don't necessarily have the funds (UEC or $$$) to be able to afford land. I know this entire comment is a huge puff of hopium imagination, but everything I just outlined is actually reasonable with the mechanics they outlined at Citizen Con. I am really excited for this kind of gameplay and hope we see a very basic version of base building by the end of 2025 in game. Speaking of 2025, I am curious as to what features from citizen con we can expect to see. This is why I don't mind CIG giving estimated dates. It lets me know how excited I should get for the potential of a good year. Sadly most of what was shown off this year looks a minimum of 2-8 years with the most ambitious stuff, cough*** cough*** org stations, taking every bit of that time.
My whole org is all for this
We soon will have backers dying of old age but sure, let the hype machine run.
I just want to become a simple farmer on microtech, will sell all ships I own, no need space, I will just grow greens and stock.
Superb
Good video, but where will the temporary reside in 1.0?
Not so sure, yet, I'm thinking possibly Nyx.
I will believe it when I see it
What is this place when we see him exit the Carrack ?
This feels more like the game Rust, now in space
Was hoping for vast universe to explore Star Trek style… but got Minecraft in space … with a lot of grinding
They show one aspect of the game and it changes the all game?! Hiw so?
Did CIG mention how blueprints will work with death of a spaceman?
I believe they confirmed that when they said "permanent" they meant it literally.
When that comes ill play again
It can't come any sooner. I like it when purpose is behind what you do, and everything is about UEC. Now with items and ships having tiers, there is more to think about than just UEC.
my end game = little hut in the middle of nowhere to store all my junk :p ^^
there was so much that i have my doubts that they can actually bring it to life
when will this happen?
There’s no way this feature will be around next year. Have you checked the state of the game recently?
"Base building was never even a stretch goal"... "oh that 9:1 npc ratio? Nahhh. Maybe **post** 1.0-- but base building in for 1.0, so buy our new base buidling ships: money pleeees"
IDK why but i feel like blueprints should be a one time use, and not a permenant "learn". Then maybe at higher skill levels you could use resources to write blueprints. Would add more dynamic gameplay loops and less of a linear progression, as I just see crafting becoming stale for long term players
Whats coming in 4.1? We still dont know
I don't think this game will be ever finished unless they put a lot of energy in creating a narrative (singleplayer/coop style) that drives you into the universe (in ohter words, more sq42 into sc) and also and extremely important put a lot of energy on AI npcs and be able to completely create an immersive experience in the universe.
The base building looks amazing but I'm genuinely concerned about all this stuff and pyro, ending up feeling exactly as "dead" as Stanton. I need a story, I need real living NPCS in the universe.
I think CR has done the impossible: he has created the hardcore base for the perfect game, investing resources to make the impossible happen. It would be sad and a shame that the universe ends up feeling dead or like just a meaningless sanbox in a "big map".
I still trusting the process. Just sharing my thoughts about the current state of the game. Been here... how long? 13 years? I can wait another 7, np. Just deliver. JUST DO IT CHRIS!
CitCon got me hyped.
Too bad I can't get the game to run or reinstall lmao.
frustrating part is seeing all this cool new stuff and playing the game only to realize the actual game is nothing like advertised. will be a while before it's worth reinstalling
@@a.j.6832should be worth reinstalling when 4.0 gets released
Even if not... still good to reinstall to be part of server meshing testing which gives valuable data so they can make it better
Currently you can't put gun on a table and you thinking about base building.
Now you're seeing how big a deal server meshing could be!
Ultima Online? Star Wars Galaxies? Eve Online? These are classics. If we're going on this direction, that dude that deleted his $1500 account ja going to be crying in a couple of years. I'm waiting
They have done the right thing bringing in Organisations into the game just hope it takes time to build as it would be ridulous to see 50 Organistations building 1 bengal carrier a week that to me would be stupidity for me a bengal carrier should take four months to build. Among other Capital ships. Saying that 5 Systems will not be enough for every organistaion to build large bases. To me Pyro would be the worse base to set up a base. I don't agree with Minerals depleting just having rates reduce most games have learnt that and realise that with only 5 Systems Star Citizen at present it will not be able to mines wiill not be able to be depleted.
Not a fan of blueprints. By the time I gain enough reputation from Crusader to get a blueprint for C1, I have made enough money to buy a C2. Meanwhile today, I can go on google and find blueprints for Keaton's Batmobile. Would rather see crafting to make things better than stock, not the ability to craft everything in game.
I see they showed the ability to custom paint our outposts... 12:16 Welp, I am sure we will get that just after we get hex codes. So maybe another 6 years. Only been 8 years since they first mentioned that we would get hex codes for ships and that they were nearly done making that possible.
If you ever played rust on non teamsize restricted servers, you will know that basebuilding will be the death of SC for the casual player, vecause nolifers will band together and drive everyone out, simply by having unlimited time and resources at their disposal.
Bases won't work until we are playing in one big universe server. There cannot be multiple versions of your base across multiple servers. Sure hope server meshing gets sorted out, otherwise it is all just talk.
Star Wars Galaxies 2.0.
I really would rather have base building as a DLC a year after the actual game is released... But thats just me.
Go with what works
More new features that "change everything". How many of those revelations have we had already over the last 12 years? What it changes is the release date which gets further away with every new feature. But I guess this is intended to keep backers hyped and give SQ42 more time to simmer (I would have said "cook" but cooking is usually faster.)
Can’t wait!…until 2035.
I’m not buying anything from CIG anymore, until I see Tony Z
thanks for the video, like many, I'll believe it when its in the game and bugs removed. /sigh
We dont need base building now... we need a game first
A lot of things we dont need NOW.
Idea's are great. Unfortunately I haven't seen any real ideas make into PU other than ships to raise money. Well anything meaningful as far as gameplay is concerned.
it kinda look like satisfactory type shit
please add third person.
I just found out we are going to have a baby in 2025. This child will be in 4th grade before any of this comes to fruition 😅
Congrats
"You know what I value more than my Lamborghini's.... KNOWLEDGE" (iykyk)
Just dreams, no hard progress.
They cant even get inventory or equipment right...
And the biggest flaw: it will be multiplayer online.
With all the cheaters and griefers out there this will be frustrating and shitty like tarkov.
Every year i install SC to get an idea of the progress and its still the same buggy walking sim for the last 4 years.
Cheaters are going to be really drawn to this one. I love the idea of base building/full loot PVP but if it ends up anything like ARK official server PVP solos/small groups on low security areas doomed, and will be off-lined instantly.
I have a feeling cheaters will not be a thing because it would be too much effort for them to go out of their way to fck with other people since Star Citizen is huge
Maybe even the wormhole travel will filter them out since they hopefully can't cheat that / aimbot for wormhole travel lol
@@kajmak64bit76 I think you severely underestimate their determination, and love of ruining other people's in game lives. If there's a way to ESP the whole planet, and find everyone's obscure canyon, swamp base, etc they'll raid it. Also I really hope I'm not playing with people outside of North America when all this is out, since getting off-lined by players with a time zone advantage is a pretty awful.
Yeah, I'm imagining Rust in space. With the size of planets and the possibility of putting your base into stealth mode (scanning mechanics may make it possible to power down your base for it to be not picked up unless you are basically right on top of it) that may somewhat reduce the amount of offline raiding, but of course, that won't stop people from doing it (once you know where a base is you don't need to scan for it again).
I'm sure they have thought about this, but we shall have to see what their solution will be (they may just say, if you want complete protection build in high-sec or win the 'shield token war' otherwise be prepared to defend 24/7).
Don't build in low sec then. Easy answer.
@@callsigngrimdoll It's nice we have 1 solution already, but it would be really nice if it were possible to maintain a small base on a low security planet for whatever purpose for at least a week, or two. That should be possible for solos/small group players.
Sadly that’s all star citizen has been for years an amazing idea with poor implementation.
Play 2035 🤣
Glad I held off buying the game cuz this sounds dumb as shit