(Trying to) Revive a Mac SE/30
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2019
- Compact Macs from the 80s and 90s suffer from a common problem that results in scrambled video. But the common solution sometimes isn't enough to fix it.
"Simasimac" information: lowendmac.com/brierley/09pb/s...
Classic Mac schematics: museo.freaknet.org/gallery/ap...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please consider supporting my work on Patreon: / thisdoesnotcompute
Follow me on Twitter and Instagram! @thisdoesnotcomp
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Music: "Now or Never (You and Me)" by Dan Mason (danmason.bandcamp.com).
Additional music by Epidemic Sound (www.epidemicsound.com).
Intro music by BoxCat Games (www.box-cat.com). - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Just bring it to the apple store
I would absolutely love to see their reaction if someone did that.
"What kind of 'computer' is this?" lol
Thats a mac?
That epic pause after "Can I get it up and running again?" You did that on purpose, didn't you?
it meant "read my shirt"
You have to admire the confidence of someone who will scrunch up their face and just look at you, unblinking, like a living still-frame. And then roll confusingly erotic slow-motion footage of himself undressing a vintage computer. Is it getting hot in here, or is it just my inadequacy?
That “Well, shit” had me rolling. I have one of these and it worked as of a year ago, but it’s yellow as hell.
"Well shit"
Funniest thing I've heard all month.
SteampunkFiend thats what I thought too
You blew the opening. "This apple doesn't want to boot. Do you think we can make it compute?"
Exceptional quality editing, and content as always! Great camerawork
Colin, I feel your pain. I have a Macintosh Plus sitting here that I've been working on since January, and I've exhausted every option I can find. I recently decided to shelve it for now, but I certainly won't throw it out... especially in the case of the SE/30, it's still valuable in non-working condition. I hope to revisit it someday.
Lol Colin this was the most smooth, seductive disassembly I've ever seen. Laughing watching this at work. Nice job my dude!
Such a great video! The music was on point and the moment of truth..."well shit.." I died. Thank you so.much for this! LMAO 😂
“Hey everyone, it’s Colin, how’s it going?”
Best thing you can hear any day.
Andrew Triebe Agreed
And then theres the unexpected at 4:30 lol
Yup
I ran into this myself, where a recap didn't get the SE/30 back up and running. My first SE/30 wasn't chiming or displaying _any_ video. Recap fixed the chime, but still no video. I went for a bit of a moonshot of replacing UE8, a chip in the video circuit that's known for failure, and after messing around a bunch of times resoldering (I suck at soldering, and replacing a tiny SMD IC SUCKS, even with a hot air station), it now lives again, although the soldering isn't exactly pretty. It still occasionally loses video, but that's analog board related because a tap on the AB side fixes it. I now have a second SE/30, which after a recap is doing the same no video thing, so I'm not looking forward to replacing that IC once again.
Very much this. I can confirm that is the culprit in most cases, while I haven't restored my SE/30 yet I have come across NUMEROUS forums saying that is the IC that fails. Also, reason for me not repairing mine yet is that I got the Mac for $25 and I can't find a keyboard and mouse for less than 5x that.
@Lassi Kinnunen Hmm, maybe... I hope you're right.
@@zebular You can use any ADB keyboard and mouse you want on the SE/30; it doesn't have to be period correct. I've used ones from an LCIII, for example, with no problems. ADB is ADB.
@@zebular BMOW sells their "wombat" adb to usb adapter
I simply love these disassembly and repair videos you do, the editing with the different shots and angles is great, and the music is soooooooo chill. Great work Colin, hope you get this little unit up and running again soon!!!
Next to recapping the power supply (which is usually the “cap” problem from KayPros to Commodores in my experience), you could try adding another “sense” to the equation. In lieu of visual, try temp; a blown or highly suspect component often runs hot. Several vintage gurus note a bad chip or component simply by placing a finger atop the IC and checking if its warmer than usual/others. A few other channels I watch used an IR camera, and another just his index finger to find bad video RAM. Just a thought...
Another great video Colin. Your editing style and cinematography are always so well thought out
Coming back to this one, it's obvious to me why I originally got into your content; your laid back, easy delivery and those montages with most excellent music!
"...well shit."
Did a recap on my SE/30 yesterday, delighted to say that it works again!
4:30 when you find out you put your phone in the toaster instead of the bread.
The love and care put into this just made me smile so much.
I love these videos man, please keep it up and I will watch them any chance I get.
IPA... that's your problem. Beer doesn't do a good job cleaning mainboards lol
And isopropyl alcohol is bad for drinking.
IPA is naaasty stuff. And isopropyl doesn't taste very good either.
Should've used stout.
Love the footage, nice angles and everything!
Love this epic editing style!
Colin, top notch editing!
I'm very sorry that the mechine wasn't fixed. But I was so thrilled too see the SMT ( surface mount technology) work put into this project. A lost art. I also do the work my self. I hope this inspires others to want too learn SMT repairs! Excellent work! Thank you for this video!
Relaxing, entertaining and informative. I really like your work.
Really enjoyed watching the repair. You do a good job at making it interesting.
Bummer, man. Good luck on finding a solution. I'd love to add one of those to my collection one of these days!
I love this dudes content! I hope he doesnt leave TH-cam like alot of others I've enjoyed
Love these! Thank you for the video and keep up the great work you do
A good video. Maybe reach out to Adrian Black, Perifactric's Retro Recipies, or The 8-Bit Guy?
absolutely second this. esp the 8bit guy.
@@EStarstruck Or Mr. Black.
@@EStarstruck Only thing is David is working on Planet X3 and the Commander-16 project, he might be a little slow to respond (he might not! He's definitely a multi-tasking dude!)
@@thedungeondelver oh jeez yeah I didnt think about that. I'd go for Adrian Black then
Or even, the tech knight he’s recapped Classic macs
The replacement video bit. Man, that was so satisfying to watch with the underlying music. Like repair porn.
Thanks, you just reminded me that I have to do a recap job on a 1975 Fisher RS 1050 stereo receiver. ❤❤❤❤❤👍
You said you cleaned the board more than once but electrolytic fluid might have migrated under the components causing a short. There is a video from AkBKukU that after recapping it still didn't work until he cleaned the remaining cap fluid out from under the chips.
I hope the fact your icon shows up at the end on the mac's screen wasn't a happy little accident, because that's damn clever and amusing!
Send it to Louis Rosseman
"Well shit." That was totally unexpected and I totally cracked up.
The analogue boards are really easy to recapp on the old bread box macs like the SE/30, all it takes is a competant grasp of soldering and mapping out the capascitors on the board. The caps can be regularly found online but just be sure to use higher voltage caps as their better and much much easier to find then the old 16volt ones originally used, I swapped an analogue board for a classic 2 which had almost all 16 volt caps with 25 volt ones, so long as the resistance remains the same on each a slight volt uptick won't effect these older machines, especially considering the girthy leads and connections.
The motherboards on the other hand are a bloody nightmare as they use flat caps which are difficult to remove without destroying the pads, clip off a pad and the board is effectively trashed, I made this error with an otherwise working classic 2 board and wish I never touched the mother board. Though short of a battery explosion, 9/10 of the time its the analogue board thats the problem.
With my SE/30 didn't get to that stage, I gave the board a bath I took off all the RAM and the ROM and washed the board with soap and water and a soft scrubber and let the board dry for several days blowing a blower fan at it the first day while waiting for the parts on order. I also went through it took off the caps once the board was clean, also went through and looked for dry solder joints that have cracked. I also took off the stock battery holder and replaced with a CR2032 battery holder.
Such a jammin' tune!!
great video man!! i hope you fix it 👍🕹🙏🏻
Good video. I have an SE/30 myself which could probably use some recapping but still works okay for the moment. It’ll be a good reference for whenever I dare to do some soldering myself.
My SE/30 also seemed dead for a long time - it made a click sound when switched on but then nothing happened, no screen and no spinning up drives or anything. Eventually I found out it was because of a PDS network adapter I had installed. It worked fine before, but somehow it broke and maybe caused a short or something, I’m not sure. I removed the network adapter and the SE/30 sprang to life again.
Great video, but for anyone looking for the song during the recap montage it's All in Good Time by L.M. Styles
Thanks so much! Really caught my ... ear?
Great interesting video
Our 2nd family computer was the original Mac SE. Spent many many hours on it.
How's it going Collin hope all is well with you and your channel
I'd recap the analog board still... Many bad caps may still look perfect
Yep, and a lot of the analog board caps will leak only under the cap itself. There's no way of knowing for sure if there's a problem unless you desolder the whole lot. Also, there could be cold solder joints (broken) on the analog board. I'd also check the voltages coming off the analog board to the motherboard to be sure things are actually within spec.
The music went really nice with the montage.
0:13 That face!!!! That's so sad to see, Colin. Good luck trying to get that Macintosh SE/30 back up and running again.
Love how computers work !!
Great music in the video.
My friend you didn't try the oldest trick in the book! I have 4 compact macs and 2 of them had similar issues when I got them. You cleaned the board with alcohol.... but I would recommend a good scrub with a toothbrush and dish soap in the sink. Dish soap is caustic (which is a bit harsh on the metal, but it really helps remove that oxide layer), so rinse it off very well and let dry for a while -- My Mac Plus took 1 scrubbing to revive it. However my Classic II took 5 separate times scrubbing before it finally booted. So it really can save them a lot of the times.
Wow that’s a good montage
Back in the days we soo passionately disliked those compact Macs, people would come up with ideas to destroy them or convert them into other things.
Steve Jobs nickel and dimed us on options and upgrades.
Installed operating systems that constantly crashed and ran extremely slow.
Now, due to the power of nostalgia, we love them.
just did this to my classic ii yesterday
Any updates on this? Thanks for explaining what you learned
It's times like this I wish I'd picked up the DRAM test rig from the reuse store. Ah well, was about thirteen or so years ago. Does a bad video ram come up often on these machines?
Circuit diagrams tell you exactly how it works.
As an analogy, if you go to France and don’t speak French, a local person will tell you exactly where to find the railroad station. If you don’t understand French, it won’t help.
If anyone is going to get into retro computer restoration, I would definitely recommend watching as many videos as possible on what components are involved and what they do.
By the way, I am a test technician dealing with electronic circuits every day. Not only do I understand circuit diagrams, I can trace paths through them and as a result determine the fault and how to fix it.
And you fixed the digital board but did you replace the caps on the analog board and in the power supply?
If your digital board isn’t getting the right voltages, it won’t work.
Edited to add: I have restored many classic vintage Macintosh computers from the Plus through to the LC range. Even if capacitors look good, the electrolyte in the can will be thirty years old and not at its best.
I have also removed the socketed ICs and washed the boards in a dishwasher to ensure all traces of electrolyte residue are removed from the board. But that may not work for you. I don’t advocate that extreme form of washing, I just tried it and it worked.
Great video, and please do revisit this. Could it be the CRT monitor?
Good video and worth reminding people that not every recap job will result in success.
I was hoping you would make a point of warning people about the huge potential charge stored up in the crt. Not everyone knows of the hazzard, so might be worth putting a VO warning in there.
Machine recapped, power flipped
Computer, taking after Colin's shirt: Nope
Colin: Well, shit.
What is the song at 2:00?
Im really digging it
th-cam.com/video/PWtVIh5zpYM/w-d-xo.html
All in good time by L.M. Styles
th-cam.com/video/3EPH5Ucz0iU/w-d-xo.html
Oh the pain! I am in MN and was planning on hitting up freegeek Minneapolis in a couple weeks when in the area specifically because I'm hunting down an se/30... If you want to give up on this I'd love the challenge!
Cool computers back then but did no own one till April 12th 2008 !
This was the same problem with my mac Color and mac Classic. Try out to clean the whole board under warm water with dish soap and a brush, then rinse with clear water, and dry it with an hair dryer. Corrosion under the electronic Parts disappear and this eventually solve the proplem. Worked 3 times on my old Macintoshs
Love the Computer Renaissance warranty void sticker, unlikely, but possible I could have sold that to someone back in the mid-late 90's ;-)
I would love to get my mits on an SE/30. My soldering skills are total crap though. Great video as always, and I would try and reach out to Adrian Black or 8 Bit guy.
As much as I'd like to say yes, I would have to say no way. I've done so many recaps of SE/30s and they are a pain. You'll end up, in some cases, like Colin did in this one or worse. The success rate is 50/50 for some boards, but most are slim to none.
The corrosive leftovers from the old caps are bad enough to eat right through traces and pads, even on multi-layer boards like the SE/30. In short, they were great Macs in their heyday. The hardware specs you can achieve for such a small machine were almost unfathomable back then; in 1989, 1MB of RAM would cost $100 US dollars, just to give you an idea.
Sorry, but I just don't have the time or patience to do recaps anymore.
What is that thing that looks like a yellow highlighter that you use to clean the pads around the 3:30 mark? I'm new to repairing old Macs, and I didn't see anything that looked like this pen in the soldering section in my local electronics store. I love this video. I get a chuckle out of it every time.
It’s a flux pen. You can also get flux in gel form, but I prefer how the pen keeps things neater.
Others here have mentioned Louis Rossmann, If you watch his videos he uses a UltraSonic Cleaner to remove corrosion and other debris from the board when done and then submerges the boards in 90% IPA bath before allowing them to dry in an oven at 200 for 1 hour. I suspect that the electrolytic fluid has gotten under some of the chips where he cannot clean which is causing the issue. I fixed a classic mac with a similar process, except in my case, I simply used distilled water and a plastic tub sitting on top of two fish tank bubblers (to provide vibration) as my ultrasonic cleaner for 10 minutes followed by a IPA bath and dry.
Finally a good non gameboy related video 👍
4:31 -- Colin said shit LMFAO
Did you try turning it off and back on? Also, unplug and plug back in. Thank!
I threw away a lot of these macs that had similar problems. I would love to hear about any other fixes you come across.
Wash the board, seriously, remove everything you can, like batteries, and put on soapy water for a few hours, an ultrasonic cleaner would be ideal, but soapy water works too, them rinse the board with IPA and put on an oven with the temperature set at a little over the water boiling point, like 105°C, and try again. Sometimes the electrolyct fluid and flux remains on the board can make a circuit act weird.
i have read this in the Low End Mac forums, it actually works.
This fixed my Classic II after recapping. It's worth a shot.
I’ve run so many old Mac logic boards through the dishwasher at this point that it’s a miracle i haven’t died from lead poisoning. It’s amazing how well it works! So far I’ve successfully recovered a Quadra 840av, Color Classic, SE30, Classic.. Just don’t add any detergent and make sure to dry the board quickly afterwards, compressed air is good to blow the water away from underneath chips. Replace all the caps as well of course or they will keep leaking.
Did you ever get this going? I had a very similar issue solved by reflowing the GLUE pins on the PSU / 5V Axial cap side grid 10/11. I think what happens is that repeated insertion/removal of the PSU connector causes flexing and cracked solder joints on that side of the GLUE. That or hard to see leakage of the C11 cap.
I can't seem to find the music he was using, anyone know where I should look?
Try washing the logic board (Techmoan-style). Your surface cleaning may not have been enough to remove all of the conductive electrolyte that leaked out of the old capacitors.
Yeah, I think a more thorough cleaning is definitely in order. Not sure if I'm going to go with the dishwasher route or something a bit more professional though.
I was like "Yeees a new video!" And realised how short it was owwhh.
Have you tried reflowing the solder joints on the logic and analogue board?
I once put a slim CD drive in one of these SEs just so I could install the flying toaster screensaver.
thinking of buying a broken SE or an SE/30 and reviving it
I always like to rotate the ram around if I don't have any spares.
The "Well shit" after the porn scene had me cracking up.
Hi Colin! I'm your old fan (from the first HHLegend DMG-01 backlite) Did you tried to swap those eeprom with mac's "BIOS" (of course it's not a bios as we called PC BIOS it's more like a firmware that prepares mac to work with video, disk drives, cpu and other connected peripherials) with compatible UV eprom or compatible eeprom with correct image burned on? Threre are plenty of libraries of retro computer flash images, including se/30 in internet...
you have to recap the video board that pattern on the screen told me that the first time you turned it on
My Macintosh SE FDHD has the problem that it will turn on, hard disk activates, fan starts spinning, but nothing will display on the screen (yes I've tried the brightness knob) the tube is glowing in the back and if you turn the lights off you can see that the CRT is emitting some light, just very little, Ive checked to make sure all the ribbons are plugged in securley on the analog board, and I've even checked the analog board for cracks, only to find none. my logic board doesn't have the battery, and I had to order one online (it hasn't come yet) so that might be the problem, but I doubt it. Do you have any recommendations?
Had this happen a couple times restoring half a dozen of these beige Macs. Remove the RAM and throw it in the dishwasher on air dry. The electrolyte gets all over the board, even if you think you got it all. If that still doesn't work break out the circuit diagrams and multimeter, one of the caps probably had one of the pads destroyed, and you'll need to run a new wire to wherever it should go.
I even said it like five seconds before you did... "Well, shit..." lolz
This particular model was one of the first Macs I ever used. I used to annoy people by playing Kid Pix at max volume, messing about with the Dynamite eraser tool, lmfao (mostly what I remember doing because I was a little twat back then)
I would say talk to Jan Beta, he is kind of fond of macs and is pretty good at diagnosing issues! I know he covered an SE and I think he may also have a se/30 and he could probably guide you along a good route to finding the issue!
Have you referenced Perifractics repairs on his SE? He has a whole video series.
Great music.
My Amiga 1200 has been recapped! :D
You might want to go a head and check the power supply under a scope to see if there is any ripple on the DC. Friend had this problem a few years back. You might be able to do it with a multimeter using the AC function anything bigger than 50mv might be a problem
I have a working Apple Macintosh Plus that I'm going to turn into something totally different, so if any hardware inside it would be helpful to you, let me know. I just need the shell.
BTW, if it has been unplugged for over a year, is there any risk of electric shock from the screen when I remove the innards?
I'd try replacing the capacitors on the analog board too, honestly, but this is not from knowing how to work on these, but from observing The 8-Bit Guy work on one of these...
my old se/30 was doing that until i ran the entire motherboard through the dishwasher... let it dry for a while and it at least would turn on after that, but i had no sound. i never replaced the caps though.
i had the same problem with a classic 2, not switched on for ca. 15 years, i replaced the li battery with a new fully charged battery and it pinged into action,
some videos talk about cleaning the board in soapy water, yes, soapy water, using non-ionic surfactant. will wash off all electrolyte residue, dry the board afterwards, ipa wash. good luck..
That slow-mo teardown was... a lot.
Might Check traces to and from caps to connected components.
"well shit". I love it.
I’m going through the same thing with a Classic right now. Nothing has worked