In a 500D I remember we just used to fly backwards until the spot we wanted to land on came into view, then pushed the nose down to recover forward speed and perform a normal auto from that point.
Yeah we used to call that a 'falling leaf' - not done that for a while. Would be good to compare the results with a 180 pedal turn and another 180 back to spot. I think the limiting factor on backwards would be the slower backward speed & extra drag that might cause a greater descent rate.. Maybe... But you do keep the spot in front at all times if you go back... Might be a better option at a lower entry - better than nothing at least. Interesting...What was the lowest altitude you did that?
Ernie Torres To turn the rotor blades in an autorotation you just need air to move from below, up through the rotor disk. BUT to make successful & safe landing, in most cases you will need forward airspeed that you can use in a flare when you have run out of altitude, to keep the blades turning as you decelerate the descent and forward airspeed. Saying that, it is possible to make a zero/low airspeed, no-flare auto to the ground: th-cam.com/video/cpHMqvoD4j0/w-d-xo.html
bill bailey if you don't bring it, where do you get it at the end? Your lack of experience and commitment to proving your misunderstanding correct is fucking annoying.
They did have forward speed, isn't that why they distanced themselves from the airport? If you visualize a helicopter with only the airflow keeping the blades spinning dropping out of the sky without forward motion to permit a flair, it makes sense to me that it would smack the earth then catastrophe.
That 80% number (with the +1%) that Ryan mentioned was put out by Robinson. I understand actual blade stall may starter lower than that, but it is a good number to keep in mind when practicing autorotation and low RPM recovery - even if there might be an area of margin beyond.
You mentioned "80% to 104% ...in about 4 seconds" - I'd say a lot faster if you pull aft cyclic (assuming you have the airspeed). But I hear your point - best stay away from 80% (even max glide configuration is up around 90%). Also agree best to find out mis-rigged on a solo mx check flight with plenty of altitude.
The auto was started without forward airspeed, but he did trade altitude for forward airspeed as he got closer to the ground. That’s why he ended up past the thousand foot mark on the runway. I am a instrument and commercial rated helicopter pilot if you’re curious.
Yep. I have seen an R44 do a zero speed to the ground - with a good headwind, light on payload. Very risky if you mess up the timing. Not something I'd try.
Is it possible to do a straight down zero velocity autorotation all the way to touchdown? Or must you always transition to forward flight and do the flare at the end? i.e. If there was just one little patch in the trees you had to land in, without the room for that forward flight, flaring part... could you just drop straight down into it and pull up on collective just before touchdown?
I have seen videos of a no flare autorotation in an R44 helicopter, lightly loaded and about 15 knots of head wind. Requires very precise timing and specific conditions. Not practiced by student pilots as the conditions are unlikely and it is relatively dangerous if you get it wrong. Check out the video here: th-cam.com/video/cpHMqvoD4j0/w-d-xo.html
That is a great question, but it depends on the airspeed, air density, loading of the aircraft etc. Manufacturers produce a diagram to show speed and height combinations (often called the height velocity diagram) that have been shown to produce a 'safe' autorotation. For the R22 at zero airspeed the charts shows as low as 400' AGL. See a bit more about it here th-cam.com/video/RJ8SAnwxD6I/w-d-xo.htmlm29s
Not right now (Jan 2021) but looking to get back to it hopefully (once COVID thing sorted out). Best way to contact me is through my website www.helicoptertrainingvideos.com/contact
Full downs are rare in training because it beats up the ship and trashes the skid shoes. We do practice them but not all the time, 98% of the thousands of autos you will practice end with a power on recovery at hover altitude and about a walking pace.. Even if you balled up the helicopter you'd walk away from it. You have to demonstrate full touchdown autos in the CFI syllabus
Not sure about that - what about a hot air balloon 'aircraft'? A helicopter can get that 'forward speed' by the rotor blade rotating forward, even as the body of the helicopter is stationary - this is how it hovers...
Total rubbish, that was a power recovery that can be done in any helicopter,the fact that the low rotor warning came up three times shows you a low time pilot would be in serious trouble in a real situation.
I don't understand your comments - 1) Yes it was a power recovery - this wasn't titled "Full down". 2) Any auto (full down or not) can be done in "any helicopter" - so what is your point? 3) What makes you think the low RPM warning is a bad thing? RPM down there gives the best glide - it is not a limitation, just a warning.
In a 500D I remember we just used to fly backwards until the spot we wanted to land on came into view, then pushed the nose down to recover forward speed and perform a normal auto from that point.
Yeah we used to call that a 'falling leaf' - not done that for a while. Would be good to compare the results with a 180 pedal turn and another 180 back to spot. I think the limiting factor on backwards would be the slower backward speed & extra drag that might cause a greater descent rate.. Maybe... But you do keep the spot in front at all times if you go back... Might be a better option at a lower entry - better than nothing at least. Interesting...What was the lowest altitude you did that?
Got to do these for my 44 SFAR instructor sign-off. Too much fun!
Yes! Where did you do that?
love these videos!!! you guys are great!!!
Brilliant, terrifying, very cool and exciting, all at the same time!
LOL thank you
I just soiled my britches watching that.... nice control. Not my bowls, though!
Me too
Even after watching it, that sounds insane. I didn't even know it was possible. My understanding was that you had to have forward speed.
Ernie Torres To turn the rotor blades in an autorotation you just need air to move from below, up through the rotor disk. BUT to make successful & safe landing, in most cases you will need forward airspeed that you can use in a flare when you have run out of altitude, to keep the blades turning as you decelerate the descent and forward airspeed. Saying that, it is possible to make a zero/low airspeed, no-flare auto to the ground: th-cam.com/video/cpHMqvoD4j0/w-d-xo.html
Ernie Torres-
You need forward speed only when you flare at the end of your autorotation.
bill bailey if you don't bring it, where do you get it at the end? Your lack of experience and commitment to proving your misunderstanding correct is fucking annoying.
They did have forward speed, isn't that why they distanced themselves from the airport? If you visualize a helicopter with only the airflow keeping the blades spinning dropping out of the sky without forward motion to permit a flair, it makes sense to me that it would smack the earth then catastrophe.
Some altitude is traded for forward airspeed in a zero airspeed autorotation.
Nice!!!!
Thanks
Thank you for posting
You are welcome
Great work impressive
Thank you
Awesome
Thanks!
great video guys . weldone
Thanks
Was that a stall warning horn I heard?
it goes off at 97 percent. blade stall is 80 percent plus 1 percent per 1000 density altitude..CFI here:)
I've had the rpm at 80 percent, I'm still alive, the factory says the rotor stalls at 80 percent. Thank you Frank!
Low rotor warning, not stall.
That 80% number (with the +1%) that Ryan mentioned was put out by Robinson. I understand actual blade stall may starter lower than that, but it is a good number to keep in mind when practicing autorotation and low RPM recovery - even if there might be an area of margin beyond.
You mentioned "80% to 104% ...in about 4 seconds" - I'd say a lot faster if you pull aft cyclic (assuming you have the airspeed). But I hear your point - best stay away from 80% (even max glide configuration is up around 90%). Also agree best to find out mis-rigged on a solo mx check flight with plenty of altitude.
Hi, can you please tell me what you use to record these videos and how you get it to record all the conversations over the radio?
Neels Botes Here are the details: www.helicoptertrainingvideos.com/2014/12/gopro-mount-in-the-r22-and-r44-helicopter/
The first time I did one of these in training, I thought 100% I was going to die...
LOL yes it made me nervous too!
The auto was started without forward airspeed, but he did trade altitude for forward airspeed as he got closer to the ground. That’s why he ended up past the thousand foot mark on the runway. I am a instrument and commercial rated helicopter pilot if you’re curious.
Yep. I have seen an R44 do a zero speed to the ground - with a good headwind, light on payload. Very risky if you mess up the timing. Not something I'd try.
this video was demonstrating power off landings as for any aircraft it flies and they all require forward in speed to land in some regards
Oh no you don’t.
Larger helicopters with higher rotor inertia might be able to come straight down, with a light load and some headwind.
I want to own a helicycle but that kinetic energy landing seem to damn scary for me. I would freak the fuck out.
Go take a quick demo flight and see what you think
Helicopter Training Videos advice taken. Thanks!
Pretty cool. My instructor did this on my discovery flight probably to see if l faint 😝lol
How is training going?
Is it possible to do a straight down zero velocity autorotation all the way to touchdown? Or must you always transition to forward flight and do the flare at the end? i.e. If there was just one little patch in the trees you had to land in, without the room for that forward flight, flaring part... could you just drop straight down into it and pull up on collective just before touchdown?
I have seen videos of a no flare autorotation in an R44 helicopter, lightly loaded and about 15 knots of head wind. Requires very precise timing and specific conditions. Not practiced by student pilots as the conditions are unlikely and it is relatively dangerous if you get it wrong. Check out the video here: th-cam.com/video/cpHMqvoD4j0/w-d-xo.html
When the chips are down no harm in attempting it. Requires precesion though
so was the engine off the whole time when they started going down?
it was at idle
Idle
No just rolled to idle so not pushing the blades round anymore
Cool.
Thanks
I wish the rotor rpm gauge was easier to see
Me too!! You start to hear the RPMs instead of just watching the instrument, when flying
What is the min AGL before a auto rotate cannot land safly?
That is a great question, but it depends on the airspeed, air density, loading of the aircraft etc. Manufacturers produce a diagram to show speed and height combinations (often called the height velocity diagram) that have been shown to produce a 'safe' autorotation. For the R22 at zero airspeed the charts shows as low as 400' AGL. See a bit more about it here th-cam.com/video/RJ8SAnwxD6I/w-d-xo.htmlm29s
What's the best glide ratio rhe best helikopter can theoretically reach ?
in the r22 you can reach a 4:1 ratio
It's not good - through a brick out of the cockpit - pretty close to glide path
Bend, OR. :)
Yep, awesome place
nice.... bend oregon...
Lovely place
@@HelicopterTrainingVideos Was at one time...
Are you still instructing? Would like an email contact if you are.
Not right now (Jan 2021) but looking to get back to it hopefully (once COVID thing sorted out). Best way to contact me is through my website www.helicoptertrainingvideos.com/contact
@@HelicopterTrainingVideos OK, Sent you the contact info via your site.
you should let him to do the actual touch to see how much slides he make.
Full downs are rare in training because it beats up the ship and trashes the skid shoes. We do practice them but not all the time, 98% of the thousands of autos you will practice end with a power on recovery at hover altitude and about a walking pace.. Even if you balled up the helicopter you'd walk away from it. You have to demonstrate full touchdown autos in the CFI syllabus
He got to do them eventually
i peed my pants
LOL
This looks sooooo scary...sigh :(
Try a demo flight with a local flight school.
every aircraft requires forward speed .
Not sure about that - what about a hot air balloon 'aircraft'? A helicopter can get that 'forward speed' by the rotor blade rotating forward, even as the body of the helicopter is stationary - this is how it hovers...
Total rubbish, that was a power recovery that can be done in any helicopter,the fact that the low rotor warning came up three times shows you a low time pilot would be in serious trouble in a real situation.
I don't understand your comments - 1) Yes it was a power recovery - this wasn't titled "Full down". 2) Any auto (full down or not) can be done in "any helicopter" - so what is your point? 3) What makes you think the low RPM warning is a bad thing? RPM down there gives the best glide - it is not a limitation, just a warning.