Also the idea that someone is "naïve" or "unintelligent" because they choose be more "quiet" or are "overly polite" is such a weird thing. The nicest people get the most shit for no reason honestly
It's often ppl who are insecure who are obsessed with finding something bad about the "good girl" or "good guy", because they can't believe someone can just be nice, non-confrontational and mind their business
@@Alex-ok5tp Lets not forget when you're an introvert. They think you never have an opinion and you're not open minded, and they think the good girls only purpose in life is to save the bad boy or bad girl
I find this to be untrue. Often, this trope is in conjunction with the “nerdy girl” trope, although there is the “ditzy nice girl” trope, both happen very often, not only the ditzy one.
Also you can go from naïve about certain things to being more well adjusted while still being "good". Not to mention when naïve is spoken about it's usually in relation to relationships (general term) and social norms rather than other types of intelligence. And being virginal is also added to the being good label which is like ... idk insert choice word here XD.
Okay, but people who make fun of others for being virgins are definitely overcompensating for something though. It's the same as people making fun of others who don't drink. Like imagine being so insecure with yourself that you absolutely must have everyone around you find enjoyment in the same thing that you do.
It's definitely in part to do with insecurity. It's like when my brother kept trying to force me to do and watch things he liked and when I didn't also enjoy them he'd get annoyed and defensive. If you really find it that great, then someone else simply (politely) expressing a different opinion shouldn't change that! You don't need other people to have the same interests and hobbies to validate them.
Not necessarily, I don't think. I think in many cases (not in all cases tho) people are just socialized into thinking not drinking or not having had sex by some age is weird, shameful, and funny, and so they act on what they've been taught. In that sense, it's more sociological than psychological. But it's also rarely one or the other, and how much of each is varies based on a person. Bottom line, I know it's appealing to say that people that do shitty things secretly feel bad, are overcompensating for something, etc, but it seems sometimes they just do what they've been taught to do.
@@fonteneausimon8898 Like you said, though, it's not necessarily one or the other. The two things are interconnected. The way we're socialised and influenced by how we're taught to be gives us these insecurities when we don't live up to them. And because we've internalised these ideas, we can feel confused (and even threatened) when other people don't conform and do the same (not saying people only drink to conform but it's still often seen as the norm) because there is validation in doing something that lots of other people do. If someone isn't doing it, we might have to question why we are and because it's so conventionally accepted we often don't think about it. Saying it's "insecurities" might be an oversimplification but it stems from truth.
Here's a thought: The 'bad girl' trope inherently relates to sexuality but the 'bad boy' trope always relates to anti-social behaviour/violence/self-destruction. Interesting conflict and double standard? I think so.
You're right that it relates to those things too, but the "bad boy" is inherently promiscuous too. I just think all men are often viewed as inherently horny so it doesn't seem as notable. There are too kinds of guys, those who want sex and get it, and those who want sex and don't get it.
@@mankytoes Yes! you're totally right about men and promiscuity. It's not notable because it's the norm. It does not hold the same weight of being 'bad' because it's expected. That could be a video here in itself!
@@exoticsamba492 it somewhat does, if u cheat than you most likely will again and if you have slept with 100 people vs someone who has slept with 10, there is a difference in standards and how you see sex. I think everyone has the right to do as they wish as long as its consensual but I would not date someone who has slept with 50+ people because it indicates we have different standards and understandings of things, be friends if their a cool person tho
@@tashaely3660 Cheating is NOT the same as having a sexual history lol. Also, it’s interesting that y’all only use this argument against promiscuous women but never on promiscuous males. Listen, if a man can sleep around and still be conserved nice, so can women. Sexual history doesn’t determine anyone’s character. Because guess what? Modest virgin women can be just as evil and abusive/toxic. Being modest/virgin doesn’t mean you have a pure/kind heart LOL. And sexual women can be just as pure and kind. Purity culture is toxic and dangerous. Stop.
I'm 26 and still a virgin, and I'm tired of people making fun of me or thinking I'm a prude. I've just never met someone I wanted to have sex with, and hooking up sounds really unappealing to me. I'm tired of being labeled as a "Good girl". Nothing wrong with that, but people just put me in a box when they learn I haven't had sex.
I understand that. I was a virgin until 23. That year, I wanted to experience sex and feel like a grown woman, in a very bad girl way. In a sense of trope, I grew up more in a ”not like the other girls" way. After a few boring experience, I stopped and swore to only with someone I have feeling for. Now at 30, I have finally found my man, the wait was worth it. And the sex is finally what it should be, making love
I’m celibate by choice until I’m married, and no man in sight. But I’m ok with that! My gosh, sex isn’t everything! There are so many other wonderful experiences in life that we can have!
I’m celibate by choice but honestly it’s read as a red flag by male or female of any orientation and I’m getting lonely and sick of it. I’m literally thinking of getting rid of it by having sex with a younger guy even, who seem to be more willing to give me a break and understand than the ones my age. Let’s see. I feel weird at 26 too.
It's like when you're asexual and people expect you to be naive and ignorant because of that. But I'm asexual, I never had sex... and if a sex joke has to be made, I'll be the one who made it. I'm not prude, I just don't want to have sex.
I feel like a "good girl" is a bit like a "nice guy". Ok, great, but what else do you have going on? These are pretty bland descriptions without further information.
as a "good girl", i'm extremely annoyed when people who are more experienced/outgoing treat me like some sort of pet or baby. they like to feel superior to us. they like to think that we're naïve and don't know anything about life. they looove putting us in boxes. suddenly you cuss and they believe is so scandalous lmao. like ok emily, we know you've been drinking since you were 14, i absolutely don't care 🙄✋
I feel this hard. Revealed during a drinking game at a party that I'd never been in a relationship and the tone was very "Aww that's so cute" by every other girl there, who at max were only 3 years older than me (21). I'm just antisocial and generally uninterested in dating for the sake of it. A lot of my closer friends who weren't at that party are the same so I know I'm not unique. It's like people think having sex or a partner makes you mature, but then they describe their relationships and its a field of red flags that shows their immaturity.
@@teapartypenguin1353 completely agree! People who feel mature/better because they had some experiences (usually mediocre) are just insecure or unsatisfied. Don't pay attention to them :)
Just be you girl. Don't care about what these people do. They just shove their insecurity on to you like it's your fault. Sis you are amazing just keep being yourself and don't do things just coz of the society
@@teapartypenguin1353 excuse me, but I have a question, althought I doubt that you're gonna see this: You say you're antisocial and not interested on dating, but you would say that it's because you're in the aromantic and asexual spectrum, or you actually feel romantic, sexual and other kinds of attractions, but just don't want any relationship right now? I apologize if it's too personal, and I understand if you don't want to answer, but i really would like to know it... And if you know why I wanna know it calms you down, it's because I'm trying to define my sexuality, and I think this would help me.
I don’t really know what to say, but sometimes I wish they would bring good characters back. Restoring a sense of balance on different character types and have them coexist with each other.
They’ve never really went away, the only difference is that now they make them more 3 dimensional so that they aren’t only just defined by their “goodness”.
Another thing that I find messed up about this trope is that they always contrast her with the “whore” and raise up the good girl and bring down the more sexually liberated girl.
@@Missmagazinebura a very small amount that’s generalized 90% of Disney channel girls stayed good they just don’t get the media attention so people aren’t aware of them
@@madnessarcade7447 Yeah, so they arent celebreties anymore. If you want to stay famous, there is pretty much only one way and thats the good girl gone bad way.
Yeah. Billie Eilish is the new example. Before she didn't want to sexualise herself. Now she's trying herself out and everyone is like "buhuu, she's a hypocrite". Instead of...you know. A person. Who can change
Is kind of irritating that the only outcome media offers for "the good girl" is making her "gone bad" there have to be more storylines and struggles because this whole "hey good girl, live a little" seems condesending.Maybe i am just biassed by personal experience.Edit: love that they did gave us examples at the end
Because we live in a Culture of Personality where the goal is to stand out from others. It is a system that encourages people to be constantly expressive and showing off your "Personality". We are expected to market ourselves in order to be successful. **Take a look at media and how often the character journey is introversion --> extroversion**. It was not until very recently that experts discuss that being an introvert is as perfectly acceptable as an extrovert. But we as a society in the west actually hold low opinions of introverts, and the message differs depending on gender.
I honestly think this is why Rory Gilmore went so bad. No one trusted that the audience would want to follow a good girl start to finish so they made her awful.
I think the worst line writers sometimes take (at the extreme end of things) is taking the "naive, sweet girl" and "breaking her down" for the sake of "character development", because apparently they can only mature and learn about the world if something awful happens to them. It also sends off the harmful idea that trauma makes people stronger and they have a moment of "in a strange way, I'm glad this terrible thing happened to me because it made me the person I am today", which is just - wrong on so many levels.
Something I'm surprised they didn't mention, but the good girl is also almost always white. it fits in with the thought that white women are the standard for beauty, femininity, and purity, especially blond ones. Many of the "bad girls" featured had bark hair, were more tanned, or were women of color. Aside from the "lotus blossom" trope for Asian women, WOCs are never seen as "good girls".
Yes I agree. And if they are the good girl, they almost always get wronged in a way. Bonnie from The Vampire Diaries comes to mind. She was the best character, but they wrote her in a way so the only reason for her existence was to help everyone else at her own expense. All throughout the show I was waiting and thinking: "When is Bonnie going to get something nice?" And it never happened.
The issue is that the "goodness" or "badness" of this trope is reliant on the male gaze. A woman is "good" if she doesn't sleep around, and men don't find her sexy. The opposite being true would make her "bad." It goes back to women not having an identity that is independent of the way that men view them. For centuries, men have been telling our stories, and even acting on the behalf of women. We're in a time where more women are writing these stories, and we're figuring out how to portray ourselves in a way that is as authentic and nuanced as possible. Women should be able to simply exist without having all of these labels put onto them by men. Especially as it seems that we're punished and ridiculed either way. Just be you ladies!
Not only that... the emphasis of how women should be and live by the rules according to men, for example "striking down the Roe vs Wade" that is beneficial to women's health and well-being. This is why women are taking things into their hands and stay independent. Writing stories by women for women is best for us, using our bodies however we want by our choices and right, moreover, living our best selves is crucial to us. In addition, is it also that this good girl image synonymous to the egos of Male Patriarchy aka "Male Gaze"?
I stand this, thank you very much for those words. You won't satisfy anyone either, I've battled myself between the prude and the ho and that's unfair, I'm neither of those, simply a multidimensional human being, a woman
Thanks I feel like all they say is "Sexy = bad girl" "prude = good girl" But when not assexual everyone kinda want to be looked at with desire when growing up.
Something i hate about this trope is that eventually the "good girl" ends up changing the bad, agresive and traumatized man. That's such a toxic mindset, no matter how sweet your partner is, they are not a therapist for your traumas, and it feels like people are trying to tell you that your job as a woman is being a therapist for a traumatized man. Most of the time said man is extremely agresive and toxic.
"Weaponizing sexuality" This is so powerful. I absolutely hate it when people say that women 'control' the dating scene. It's always women who are at fault.
Then provide an argument for why you think that's false. If you're rutinely forced to date and have sex with men against your will then you're being victim of a felony, it's not how society works.
All anyone wants- all “good girls” want is respect. Being good and virtuous, sexual, moody or any other thing is treated by a commodity by society. Men actively consume whichever prototype of women they see and want. That’s why I think it’s so baffling to them that women have their own thoughts/feelings and only want basic human decency, respect and someone that allows them to simply be.
cannot agree more i've long been tired of toeing any lines, or being defined by them, and i don't like seeing people getting boxed into roles or categories they didn't choose to apply on themselves
@@theunknown5386 I think the problem is generalizing. Being hurt by people it's awful, so assuming everyone it's the exact same after several bad experiences it's a logical way of reacting. But the truth is that everybody is an individual, therefore not everyone it's the same. It's just a matter of expanding the limits of who we interact with at a rate that we are ok with. Then it's easier to feel less frustrated and meet people. Just, meet humans, one on one. Then things can get a bit easier. At least that is what I think. Have a good day/life!!
Once again it is men’s fault? If men have a preference in women that women don’t agree with it is seen as an insecurity or lack in something on the part of the man.
Rory Gilmore had a good girl reputation that outlasted her goodness. She did not play by the rules but her society treated her as if she did. Rory might be a good example of how a misleading "Good Girl" reputation can outlast its accuracy or have no merit at all.
This video really reminds me of Pam from the office especially that scene when she says to Dwight "I love my boring life". I feel like that scene is so underrated like here is a good girl who takes no shame in the way she lives or the way she is. Pam embodies all the traits of the ' girl next door' trope and in the later seasons after she starts taking charge and becomes a much more balanced character who is comfortable in her skin. Pam learns how to take charge while still keeping her 'good girl ' values is one of the most underrated, well-written character developments
Yeah, I liked that storyline. But I can never forgive her for ending up with Jim. He was an arrogant jerk who started shit with Dwight just because he could. And she loved it. So how nice could she really be? If you're with a bad person, and you're not afraid to leave (abuse, for example, like with Roy), then you're not as good as you think.
Pam/Jim relationship is so underrated. I think it is the most healthy relationship I've ever seen in sitcoms: quiet, simple, respectful, no drama, no "you don't want me but I am perfect for you and I'm going to show you no matter what" (yeah Ted Mosby, I'm think about you 😒).
@@cepahreinholt8710 we can break beyond the boxes and just take the time to remember the facts and the nuances, we don't need stereotypes as much as people think
As a lesbian it's still odd for me to hear these perspectives on female tropes because of how heavily they center men. I wish we could hear less about the way that men think, feel, and interact with women and focus more on the internal experiences of these characters and real people. Maybe it's taken for granted that good girls are those who are straight, white, and neurotypical, but even if they are there must be something more we can talk about beyond what they offer to men or how they compare to other women.
Yes. I also noticed that "love for family" is part of what makes a girl "good" which... Is all well and, ahem, *good* if the girl is fortunate enough to have a good family that isn't toxic and/or extremely dysfunctional. Why can't we have good girls with some history of trauma and not only simple "unmessy" trauma like Lara Jean having a mother who passed away, but also like. More? Sometimes it happens but. I see a lot of the tropes seem to be built around this idea that vilifies people who don't love their family or don't see the world through rose-colored glasses. But you can be someone with the goodness types of values who has had a hard life... Can't you?
agreed, but sadly women still seem to be the minority in regards or how things are run, like, how many female writers are in change or movie scripts? or judge the awards for red carpet events? women aren't give the same amount of power, which we need to change first
The Take crew is misandristic, that's why in their videos it's always the "mens fault" one way or another. There is a ton of stories written by women that feature "good girls". Heck, you open any Lesbian Yuri Manga (often written by women) and atleast one of the main characters is a "good girl".
Growing up I always felt pressure to be the "good girl". Get good grades, not be interested in boys/sexuality at all, and do everything "right". However, once I got older and started getting tired of certain labels, I felt so much shame doing anything that seemed outside of the standards people placed on me. Wanting to date, wanting to go out for a drink with my friends, not caring so much about looking perfect. I've finally learned that it's never black or white. You can love being home with your family AND love partying with friends. You can love "innocent things" like Disney movies and crafting or whatever lol and also enjoy sex/romance. It's taken me so long to overcome the shame of not being the "good girl", especially when that's how your family wants you to be. Therapy taught me to focus more on what being a good person/having a good life is to ME, which is being kind/loving, spending time with the people I love, doing things that make me happy, traveling, laughing, etc.
I didn't like being labeled as innocent. But I also didn't like drinking and rarely felt interested in guys. There were illegal things I enjoyed, and I did enjoy rough sports. Almost always I was covered in bruises and I did not mind. Yet people thought of me as innocent and feminine and childish. All because I did not smoke and drink, even when they did not know that I was a virgin. So I did cut open corpses (med school), handled disease and death and was still "pure and innocent and naive". The kind of girl they did not let walk home alone at night. :/
Even though I wasn't a straight A student or "perfect" in highschool, I was considered a "good girl" and it was weird. Some people liked that I knew domestic skills, didn't dress "slutty", didn't wear makeup or stay out late, got good grades, etc. But at the same time, I was teased and made fun of for all this. I'd be called stuck-up, prude, shallow and all sorts of names. I'm lucky it didn't turn into full on bullying or harassment, but it was so annoying and I hated other people's opinions about me
You just be yourself. People easily assume a thing or another, but that can also be because they haven't spent the right amount of time with you to know you.
I experienced the same. It was weird. Once I was labeled "the good girl" I got away with so much crap. I deliberately tried to get in trouble, I was so tired of being seen as the innocent cute girl who doesn't know how the world works. Worst are some men who still see me, an adult, that way and take it upon themselves to 'educate' me.
I’m a straight cisgendered male but I am not ashamed to say that I embody a lot of the good girl traits and I’m comfortable enough in my masculinity to embrace that
the shaming of virgins is so weird and being a student at university we have a few students that are virgins and i sear no one makes fun of them yes maybe is a bit concerned (fake concerned) but no one would really openly shame them so bruh idk where do ya'll live but i feel for ya'll
I saw this more in high school but now that I’m in college no one cares. Most of my friends have never had sex but we’re never shamed for it and we don’t talk that much about it anyway
Yeah my experience is pretty much the same. In highschool and in college, no one really shames you for it. Some ask out of curiosity or ask about previous relationships, but not really shaming. Though that could just be my circle, I don’t hang around people that I feel don’t fit my standards of being good friends. If they shame me for shit, anything really, then they don’t meet my standards.
It absolutely infuriates me when there’s a character that is a virgin and everyone just shames and ridicule them for it but when she’s lose or is no longer a virgin, she gets dragged too and treated with such little respect.
Black women are almost never portrayed as traditionally feminine in Hollywood For example in bridgerton.. Daphne who is traditionally feminine and sexually innocent is portrayed by a white, blond woman. Whereas the assertive heroine in the second season is portrayed by a brown woman. Dark skinned women are almost never shown as the 'damsels in distress' or 'pure' or 'innocent'...but always as the stereotypical 'strong female character' This reinforces the notion that ideal Femininity can only be represented by white women.
I'm inherently skeptical of "people of color" statements and am so conservative I could be the archetype, but I thought about what you said, thought about as many examples as I could - and you're right. It's crazy. They use brunette white ladies for the same thing. Eliza Dushku was shoehorned like that.
Good girl characters are simply boring unless they learn to have more agency and personality. Women don’t need to be edgy or especially rebellious to be an interesting character. They just need to have personality and inspiring goals that they actively seek to achieve. They have to want more for themselves than just pleasing people or finding love.
i'm trying to picture men in the role of these boring good girl characters as according to your description, but then i keep imagining them as Molly Weasleys, and that somehow makes them interesting again maybe good girls are interesting, they're just executed poorly by writers and directors....
I'm being picky here but i think you kean to say they need to be written better. "Characters" can't learn anything because they're not real. They need people who can WRITE them with agency and more personality.
@@melodramatic7904 So you understood what I said but decided to attempt to “correct” me anyways? And characters DO learn things within the story. It’s obviously up to the writer to make them learn and grown.
@@driftingdruid A character that’s only trait is “good” with no flaws or development at all is boring. Nobody likes a Mary (Or Larry) Sue. Not sure how anyone could misinterpret my simple comment.
True. It's not the "good girl trope" that makes them boring it's the fact that the writers rarely ever put in the effort to add any deeper levels to the character and they become a one-dimensional stereotype of what femininity looks like. Therefore in contrast the bad girl or wild girl looks more interesting because more often than not the writers put more time into making them an actual person.
I used to be seen as the “good girl” and I dated a guy in the grade above mine who broke up with me because I was a virgin and then he stole my virginity from me. He had the nerve to laugh during the whole thing and he kept saying “I’ve been waiting for this forever” then he blocked me and moved away. The projections we place onto each other as humans is very dehumanising. We end up seeing each other as ideas that need to be conquered, things that need to be fixed etc. We’re all so multidimensional, and we should be allowed to exist as such ❤️
I’m so sorry you experienced this hun. The same thing happened to me when I was younger. I hope you are doing better now and fully accepting who you are ❤️💞
Here’s my take on the good girl: I notice most times whenever it comes to tv, people often label the good girl as boring. I personally believe this stems from the lack of trauma good girl characters often are written to have. It’s similar to how in real life people tend to dislike people who seem whole and healthy because maybe they had a traumatic childhood so that persons contrast to themself makes them feel inferior even IF the person has never treated or acted like they were better than them. People can’t relate to what they don’t know, unfortunately. And a lot of times if we feel like we lacked something in a certain area whether that be personality wise, etc. we’ll take it out on others who we feel had it better than us. I just honestly feel like society demonizes anything seen as good and praises anything seen as bad. And a lot of it comes from our own projections. Good girls aren’t boring, they’re just written in a way that seems perfect but fails to acknowledge that even good women have battles in life. And if you’re a good girl, please be proud of that and happy with that. There is nothing wrong with being good ❤️.
Too late I became s bitter used resentful badass of a woman because I got sick of being taken advantage by men. Being a goo girl sucks better to smart and assertive instead and balaced
it's definitely strange being the good girl with trauma, because people are surprised or don't think in the first place that you've been through bad things. Going through trauma does not exempt you from being a good girl.
@@RED-my9hl agreed. I've always been labeled "good girl" and "perfect" but have gone through years of verbal and emotional abuse. This abuse made it difficult to be assertive and I've had to do a lot of work to have more confience. I battle every day. People assume my life was easy and it goes to show that people judge without really knowing anything about a person.
I feel this so strongly! Thanks for verbalizing it. Sometimes it definitely feels like I have to "pay" again for coping with childhood trauma but also trying to radiate love through a kinda "good girl lifestyle". So everybody thinks I am capable of doing so because my life has been near to perfect so far, when in reality I experienced the opposite but chose and worked to not let it influence how I treat other people today 🤍
as Taylor says in Nothing New: They tell you while you're young "Girls, go out and have your fun" Then they hunt and slay the ones who actually do it Criticize the way you fly when you're soarin' through the sky Shoots you down and then they sigh, and say "She looks like she's been through it"
Katy Perry kinda embodies this to me, she made music and had eras that was flexible in whatever femininity she wanted to express, like California Girls, Roar, E.T, and Swish all have different tones but she never abandoned her girly aesthetic while taking on new ones throughout the years
Yeah but she was really big and huge in the early 2010s, whereas in the late 2010s she kind of struggle to stay relevant. Though there could be many other reasons/factors for that.
no she was more of a rebel her first major hit was i kissed a girl she was bubbly and girly but she use her sex apeal to get attention too. Love her as an artist tho
A) why is being a virgin a bad thing? It used to be seen as a privilege and now we are forced to think we have to have sex so we’re not seen as prudes. B) sometimes I wonder if the good girl has to be with the bad boy because the nice boys want the bad girls. I know this is not the case, but after seeing it portrayed like this all of the time, it begs this question.
Women are usually demonized for not being virgins, for wanting and having sex. The expectations and forceful beliefs that women shouldn't enjoy sex isn't a privilege. Am I saying women have to have sex? No. But women should be able to want it and do it and not be seen as evil for it.
@@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385 i didn’t mean to put it that way. I just hate how virgins are being seen as bad and women who are having sex are more praised compared to the past like it is to be expected. Either way the double standards with both is ridiculous. No one should feel guilty for either choice.
@@gabrielleduplessis7388 Women are still largely hated for having sex. No, women shouldn't be pressured to be a virgin or have sex. But the hate for women being sexual beings has to stop.
They are not saying Zoey is not attractive. They say her character (Jess) is seem as less attractive by the male characters in the show because she is 'desexualized', especially comparing her to her best friend, who's a model and appears sexualized, again, from the male perspective. They are saying the "good girl" is a pretty girl, but doesn't have any sex appeal to the eyes of the men who surround her.
@@carlathedestructor2454 All we want is some random person to take it off our faces and tell us we look although we have trust issues when someone wears our glasses 😂
Another way that THE GOOD PLACE reverses a glass if Good Girl trope is that (as you pointed out) often a good girl is shown as the only one who can reform a particular bad boy. In THE GOOD PLACE, however, it is Good Boy (Chidi) who is shown to be the one who can reform Bad Girl (Eleanor).
I’m so tired of hearing that characters who are meek, cooperative, or can’t quickly think what to say or do are fundamentally boring and passive. We need a new rule that we stop for a minute and think a little harder before we declare a character lacking in development or in significant character flaws because they’re quiet or nice. Like, yo, we know that people’s flaws are often the flip side of their good qualities, do we really think there’s no dark side to being the quiet, cooperative type? Like, yo, I am meek, cooperative, hesitant and nice, but I am also real, probably complicated to a fault, and, let’s be real, kind of a human disaster area. I guess no one has to want to watch me on tv, but I wish I didn’t have to hear so often that any character I particularly identify with was a bland mistake of weak writing.
Well, let's be honest, this trope and it's perspective originated from jaelousy that the "good girl" minds their own business. The characters that are nice or have many acomplishments on Tv are always portrayed in a way that slanders them in order to appeal to the people who don't indentify with the trope than to appeal to the ones that find themselves in it.
THIS. So many complaints of characters being "one-dimensional" or "boring" are completely unfounded and just go to show a lack in media literacy for most of the general populace. Like, no Sharon, these characters aren't poorly written, you just don't have the critical thinking skills necessary to enjoy properly written media. It's like everyone other than us has the attention span and memory capacity of a goldfish.
You can only respect those who earn it. If men have to earn respect, then women will have to as well in a world of equality... if there is such a thing.
@@mikejohn29mj That's not the conversation I was having here and if that's your knee-jerk reaction that's more about you than anyone else. I'm talking about the video.
Everybody has their mix of good and bad and women have been manipulated through these tropes as they discussed in the video. Men (and women) do this shit to women all the time as a form of control. Shaming women for being prude and shaming women for being promiscuous. We need to cut this shit out.
Thank you! This is my life! I've often been labeled a "good girl" but then when I swear or make a dirty joke people say things like "I don't get you. One second you're a good Christian girl, then you say things like that. Just pick one!" So.....good girls aren't allowed to make the same jokes as everyone else? It's so frustrating! Thank you for putting my life into words!
@CooP-dg7kyHello stranger on the internet. I’m a very strong Christian who reads the scriptures everyday. Sometimes I just slip up and a swear word slips out. Please don’t judge me because my bad habits are different than yours. Nobody’s perfect, which is why Jesus came in the first place. Thanks ❤
Thank you! I’ve always related to these “good girl” characters. I’ve been called a “goody two shoes” as an insult, by my peers. But why is striving for morality a bad thing? I honestly just want people to feel loved and taken care of and happy. 🥺
Also interesting how many try hard to get the good girl, to have sex with her or break her. I acted like the good girl, stayed away from boys, parties etc and it brought on more attention that I didnt want until I did and I used it to my advantage but it caused more problems than good in the end cause you get used, people take advantage when you're vulnerable
Same with me.. I used to over heard guys say “I want to sleep with her because she’s a virgin” I didn’t know if they liked me or because they wanted to feel special
its never good to stoop to the level expected of you for sure, its good you were able to realize you didn't like it and found a way to break free of that, though i'm not sure there is a way to realize for ourselves how to become our best self without doing dangerous things and hurting others, pain is how we learn
My goodness. This exact same thing happened to me and I swear it gave me some serious trauma that I'm still trying to break free from even to this day.
@@bull3tcoff1n i'm sorry to hear that, it sucks having to live a certain way in life, be what you think people want you to be, i hate the way alot of men make women feel they have to be
And the bad girl is the rebel and the complete opposite of the good girl but they end up as friends like cat and jade from victorious and Veronica and Betty from riverdale .
@zet7670 -- Perfect summation of the truth in tv-land. Irl, total opposites (in morals/values, life goals, ways of thinking, etc. versus just personality clash as it's often made out to be in media), rarely attract so much as repel each other. Irl if you think differently from someone but have the same values, you're more likely to end up on the same side or in any kind of positive or healthy relationship than with someone who has a thought process that is similar in manner to yours but has completely opposing values, boundaries on means and methods, etc.
Sick of the "bad boy" being" saved" by a good girl! It's so toxic and teaches women that they can" fix" men. No man is worth" fixing " if they don't change for themselves they aren't worth your time . It teaches women to stay with bad low quality/ character men who abuse them.
For some reason when they started talking about the way women have to fragment themselves I started thinking of the lyrics “I’m a bitch, I’m a lover, I’m a child, I’m a mother, I’m a sinner, I’m a saint….” That’s who we should all be allowed to be- many sides.
I have been a good girl since forever but had father that would use me a punching bag and as a lesson to my siblings. I have been called naive, childish, stupid even though I am very street smart, have a doctorate and been independent. I became "bad" but it was trauma and emotional/mental issues. I am so glad I never fully gave in what people wanted me to be. Lots of people try to push into our boundaries and belief. Don't let them. Its just hard though.. because people usually try to change us when we are trying to get to know our true selves and sabotages our growth. God, breaks from work and meditation helped me to to get back to my true self.
I remember my aunt shaming me constantly and calling me "boring" because according to her I was a good girl who wasn't interested challenging rules or getting a boyfriend. I wasn't doing it on purpose or trying to be different. I genuinely wasn't into that. Women can't win.
Some people say those things because they are jealous. Jealous that you and others don’t fall for peer pressure. Maybe they didn’t want to do what they did but they didn’t have the gut to stand out for what they really wanted to do. They perceive you as strong for not going with the flow.
I was a part of this trope my whole teenage years and didn't care, but, for some reason, i feel ashamed of like that in university. I have a hard time accepting being sensitive, introverted, shy, inexperienced, someone who prefers to stay at home watching anime and asian dramas than partying... But, i found out, now that i'm adult, that people ar way more complex than that. I'm sensitive, introverted, have a "good girl" vibe and i found that i love boxing and it's a new hobbie. I freaking love boxing so much!! (As well as fighting and martial arts in general).
It's so frustrating how you're treated like a child for being a "good girl". I'm a "good girl". I have this coworker, who I actually, do like, but sometimes the way she talks to me can be patronizing and condescending. I'm christian, a virgin, introverted, and polite, whereas she has a lot of sexual experience, started drinking at 14, ECT. She treats me like a child, even though there's only a 3 year difference between us (I'm 21, she's 23). She often treats me like a child, some of the things she says to me are "Oh, sweety" (condescendingly), "I have to protect your Innocence/innocent ears" (whenever she or our other coworkers says something "naughty"), or "Your life is so boring" (cause I don't party or have a lot of friends). It's so frustrating, that just because I'm quiet and have never been in a relationship, I'm labeled as "innocent", "naive", and "childlike", which is so far from the truth. My whole life I've been exposed to the darker side of the world. Both my mother and grandmother are rape victims and suffered abuse as children. All my parents grew up poor, and I did as well in my younger years. My parents trauma negativity affected their parenting skills, leading to multiple people in my immediate family feeling suicidal and one suicide attempt. I personally have struggled with depression and social anxiety for the last 6 years. To top it all off, when I was 16, I was moved to a country where I didn't understand the language, culture, and education system, and to this day, I still can't speak the language well. After all that, to be called innocent and naive is just so utterly infuriating. My coworker doesn't know about my past, which I can't blame her for since I haven't told her, but what I can blame her for is the fact that it never crossed her mind that there may be more to me. The automatic assumption that there isn't anything more because I'm a "good girl" is what I find the most frustrating.
It’s dumb and is hella annoying. You can’t judge a person at first glance without actually getting to know them on a deeper level. To lend some perspective from a guy. There will be large or muscle-bound guys who get all tatted up, have piercings, do their hair or dress a certain way, display the typical “bad boy” appearance or at least what they think constitutes a “bad boy” archetype. Especially, when they grew up in the suburbs, gated communities, or affluent neighbourhoods with an abundance of resources, safety, opportunities and privileges. They only do this because it’s trendy and they know it is what women generally find externally attractive. Anybody can get tattoos, piercing, do drugs, drink, and smoke. Those things are easy to do. And it gets tiresome, boring and predictable after awhile. It’s usually unimpressive. Being a bad boy or bad person is easy. Being a genuinely good person through and through on a daily basis no matter what, is an entirely different beast. That has my utmost respect. Meanwhile, juxtapose to the bad boy, you have an small quiet unassuming and maybe even “meek/nerdy” looking guy who is genuinely a good person. But is a refugee, who lives in the ‘hood wearing cheap prescription glasses and hand-me down clothing. Who has been through some hard and unimaginable shit like seeing family members raped or die right in front of them through poverty, famine, and war. Among contending with other social maladies. All the while surviving one issue after another. But yet carry with them some of the greatest humanistic qualities - good character, loyalty, committed to familial responsibilities and duties, unbothered by superficiality and physical appearance, compassion/empathy/selflessness, fearlessness, hard work, and a strong moral compass. Another example I’ll provide is the “good/innocent” girls living in poor developing countries who like watching “corny” lovey-dovey shows like kdramas and telenovelas and listening to cheesy love songs or something. Who may also day-dream of a house with the white picket fence in a safe and quiet neighbourhood. Doesn’t have to be a big house or a wealthy area even. But unfortunately outside their windows or doors is an environment of piss, shit, death and sorrow. Those harmless bubble-gum entertainment provides them hope and some form of escapism from their harsh reality. Then you have some girls living in affluent boring and mundane neighbourhoods/communities. Who like to consume “dark,” “gritty,” “naughty and risqué” media (writing, entertainment, music etc.). Maybe dabble in some tattoos, piercings, hair dye, and sexualized clothing as well to look edgy. Some may even travel to some bad areas of town or the city for a sense of excitement. And if they feel extra adventurous, galavant to a poor or violent country for a small getaway. But when shit hits the fan, their privilege will almost always bail them out. Meanwhile, those girls or women in very low socioeconomic situations have little to no chance of escaping their environment. I’ve had the rare privilege of witnessing both sides. Point is, one can’t fit anyone into a simple small box without actually getting to know them deeper or more intimately. Not stereotypically. Especially, not from outward appearance alone and first impressions. People are more complicated than what Hollywood or mainstream media portray them as.
You’ve just described my whole life! Ive literally been treated differently by other people just because I come off as shy and soft spoken. It’s especially really annoying when they talk to you like a child too smh
this made me want to cry thank you so very very much for making this....i just lost a job for being to good everyone attacked me so often and sneak dissed me that I couldn't bring myself to go back I felt like i was turning into them and I just couldn't accept that.....this was so perfectly made I needed this so bad
Me too! I had the same experience I remember I called one out and everyone got shocked because they thought I was the good girl and won’t say anything. I finally left and I realize how toxic everyone was.
The problem is : goodness or "badness" is associated with sex. And sex is associated with purity. If you have traditional views on sex and relationships, you're good. If you don't, you're bad. And this is dump because people live in phases. And because there is no morality in sex. Morality in sex was invented to limit women, to oppress women. Who put my morality and my goodness in or on my vagina? Just be a good person, try to help people, be kind, be there for your friends. That's enough.
@@Chris-rg6nm Well yeah, that was the original function of patriarchy, to ensure a man's bloodline continues and inherits his property. Much of what is considered culturally "feminine" came about because of limited female mobility; Women receive protection from other men, cloistered inside homes, palaces, and city walls, and men receive sexual exclusivity at home.
I can't stand double standards from man and I don't think any lady has to live with the hypocrisy of many gentleman. Man think they're entitled to ask for certain standards in woman they don't even want to meet. Disgusting
@@Chris-rg6nm body count is one many examples. Man wanting "virtue" but chasing after temptations and lust, etc. Those are double standards, I don't care if you agree or not, those are things that happen in the 3d world and woman have to deal with them
"Good characters" in general are seen as bland. Again most of these issues IMO are traced back to the audiences beliefs and personal taste. And writers writing what they think will have broad appeal.
@password 12 basically, audiences like to blame writers, and they do deserve some of the blame. But a lot of issues go back to fandoms and general audiences who aren't monolithic, to begin with.
Honestly I don’t think Tessa specially in the books was a good girl, she was certainly naive and inexperienced but quite misogynistic towards most women she interacted with. She gave that “I’m not like the other girls” type of vibe
I'd also like to say that living the "good girl" life does not mean that you have a boring one, or that you're hiding your true self by not giving in to all the sexual or dark desires that comes across your way.
I didn’t know how much I needed this video. It has inspired me to finally embrace myself after spending several years looking for ways to stop being the “good girl” (because it made me feel ashamed of myself).
The bottom line is, as women we should always aspire to never put ourselves in boxes or play by a "stereotype" even if it is socially rewarding (only for a little while) women are full well rounded, complex individuals. Always be your true authentic self and try to embrace all the facets of your being, because we never have just one.
I have been waiting for this trope to be covered! Throughout my childhood, I worshipped Hilary Duff, Selena Gomez, Ashley Tisdale, the character Gabriella Montez, and so many others because I identified with these ‘good girls.’ Many of these girls never had a ‘gone bad’ moment, they just matured and evolved into complex adults while still maintaining their goodness. No shade to the girls who did, but overall I blame the media for creating this narrative that good girls MUST be changed by the end of the show/movie. Not all of us want that for ourselves. My favourite ‘good girls’ stayed true and still inspire me today in my 20s.
This video was great but I wish y’all included Manny from Degrassi and her transformation from “cute good girl” to “sexy bad girl” but explored how smart and fully fleshed out she was. Also, Degrassi character analysis vids would be awesome 😭!! Thanks for another great video!!
I think one of the consequences of these characters produced by the male gaze is that they send the message to men that they can sleep around with whoever they want but, the only woman who's really worthy is the one who doesn't do the same, the one made of "wife material". So they would look down on sexually active women and they would not give an opportunity to any of them to be something else than just one of the "bad girls" they are having fun with, until they find the one, the virgin. It has to do a lot with slut-shaming, as well
Good men - speaking as a decent guy - DO NOT resent women being sexual and sensual beings eho are empowered. They actually find it very attractive and alluring. We don't shame or bully promiscuous women... or men... but highly sexual/sexual and highly promiscuous/promiscuous are not the same thing. Promiscuity is extremely destructive for both men and women. Any moral or decent guy feels sorry for promiscuous people. Anglo societies are screwed for this stuff, somuch bigotry and hatred between men and women. In my experience Anglosphere (UK, Australia, NZ, Canada, USA) men and women are immature and toxic compared to Europeans. Everything is about your "role". In Europe it is more common to see each other as a HUMAN BEING first. In Anglo countrues you're just your roles: race, gender, age, sexuality etc. This is all used by the elites to promote social division, conflict and misery. I've never met such cruel, harsh, judgemental mean and ignorant men AND women as in Anglo countries. Love and consciousness is the solution, not fingerpointing and more conflict. But in the meantime I feel deep empathy for good Anglosphere women surrounded by tonnes of toxic emotionally retarded manchildren. Emigration can fix most of these problems
OMG!!! I feel like this perfectly talks about Persephone from “Lore Olympus” (webcomic). Especially around 1:21, when the video discusses about her “seemingly perfect facade is masking her darker struggles.” That just hit the nail. Like ommph!
Thank you for this. I've always felt like the pendulum swung waaay too far in the other direction of women's liberation in media. For a while it felt like, if a woman isn't hyper-sexual or flirtatious, she ceased to be a woman. It was an over-reactive method of rebelling against the older ideals and made an impression on my generation. I was often shamed for being a virgin, called a prude, and everyone thought I should "sleep around to know what I really want." But that didn't feel genuine to myself. It hurt to see this message in media bombarding me from a young age that sex was everything. I appreciate your coverage of this as a positive, because we shouldn't be shamed or labeled as "repressed" for not wanting to engage in sexual activity upon the introduction of another's desire to possess us.
I used to be The Good Girl when I was in Primary and High school but then I grew up. I hit college, my life kind of fell apart after my parents split, found out I was neurodivergent and realised I was lesbian. my "Good Girl" phase was just me trying to be the perfect child for my family because society told me to be a certain way. It wasn't me being the genuine good girl. It was people pleasing that came from insecurity.
i've been this girl in real life and i've always felt like i lacked something. like i can't have as much fun cause i need more than an fboy. like it's harder for me to be happy cause the quality of a relationship i need to be satisfied is quite high. i even tried that kind of a 'casual' relationship but i'm a deep sea fish and the closer i get to the surface the more difficult it is to survive. i feel like there's no cure and way out
The important part here is, that most of these characters were created by men. Writers have to simplify characters yes, but I think young men especially often only see their love interests and women in general in a limited number of roles. Because the true complexity of being female often happens behind closed doors or in female only spaces. It is the same in reverse, except women weren't present in writers rooms for a long time. Let us all not fit into any molds and create characters that reflect reality.
There’s no wrong in doing good and being proud of it. There’s no wrong on wanting good grades or staying a virgins. There’s no wrong on not dating. You can be good and have fun in your own way. You can be good and not have an existential crisis, if you know who you are. You don’t have to rebel because people think your too good, you don’t have to judge people for not being good like you. You live your own live, can help people but let them live.
I've always been the "good girl," but not the ignorant, naïve, weak version the media portrays. I'm assertive but I mind my own business. I'm confident yet humble. I'm introverted by have many friends and am polite to friendly. I'm living my life, a virgin, a creative, happy. The world will simply have to deal.
I’ve always tried to escape the “good-perfect girl” stereotype. I was like the “goodest” person throughout my childhood, then as a teenager, young adult I tried to be rebellious. Drank, smoked, partied, etc. Then I got tattoos and piercings done. However, and now as a 40 year-old-woman, I have finally learned to embrace the fact that I just can’t help being a “good woman”, it’s just the way I am, and always have been. I tried hard to be the bad girl but my good side always came up. The problem is that I’ve been taken advantage of way too many times, and that infuriates me.
I've been a "good girl" my whole entire life and now, (especially after recently leaving a religion that has a lot of rules about the way you act and look, and preaches that you need to be obedient to the letter) it's so weird to be navigating this "bad girl" space. I'm tired of being condescended upon for being a good girl and yet the "bad girl" persona we see in the media is looked down on too. I wish there was more gray area in between the way we view women.
So far this has been my favorite video of yours, I now understand I can be multifaceted and still be true to myself, it was so tiring trying to fit into one mold one in reality I like lots of things, great job
As someone who was raised to be a "good girl" (conservative country, Catholic school, strict parents) but who just doesn't fit the mold of either "good" or "bad" (because who does!!), I loved watching this video. But *gags* what Daphne did to Simon was so messed up :((
Thank you for posting this! As a 32 year-old gay man, I resonate powerfully with the good girl/bad girl dichotomy. I've struggled so much with my sexuality my entire life, feeling like if I gave into my desires, I would tarnish my good boy image. I always have seen myself as the innocent and pure guy, someone who very rarely drinks, never cusses, good to others, child at heart, avoids conflict, and yet also mature and grounded. I am proud of who I am to the core, but I also struggle to integrate being a sexual being with my pure image without feeling like I have to embody two extremes. Anyways, I am still in the process of telling myself that I can still be the "innocent and pure" guy while being a sexual person and I am a good person still for doing so :)
There is nothing inherently good or bad about sex, it doesnt make you a good or bad person, just a person. What makes you a good or bad person is how you treat people and their feelings. I hope you make that distinction and do what feels right for you to find your balance and happiness :).. remember do what makes you happy and doesnt hurt others.. be you..
I feel a little off associating the good girl that reforms the bad guy. I ve seen a post about this on Tumblr where a girl made it clear that women are not professional therapist to these men and shouldnt promote the idea that the troubled or problematic man needs a nice girl the right girl to change him and make him a better man. I feel it plays into that and I think we shouldn't use that argument as a strength of the nice girl. I also have heard the point from many girls that they can change him if given the chance when chances are it could backfire and be the other way around.
When you’re a “good girl” people may try to corrupt you and assume you’re naive / easy to manipulate. Some evil people take it as a challenge and get enjoyment out of defiling your innocence. Being innocent is framed by our sexually liberated society as juvenile and immature, which makes it all worse.
Am a so called good girl but I had enough of people thinking I would be ok with everything. Why do have to be nice when I don't want to and feel guilty when I don't. My sister is a troublemaker but everyone notices her and love's her for all her flaws but when I say am tried of people pushing or asking to much of me, am a bad person. I don't want to be invisible, I guess I want attention but that because people only ever know me as the good,nice, sweet, innocent and naive girl which I am not. I want to fight ( I can't fight for sh*t) I want to smoke ( hate cigarette so no) Damm i want my feelings to be important to.
you'll need boundries and youll need to learnt he difference between nice and kind yes people will come down on you hard for asserting yourself, its a form of emotional blackmail, its a shock to them too. it wont suit them for you to change into a healthier version of yourself no one else is going to respect n stand up for you if you wont find the energy to do it for yourself it is only exhausting because you have no practice at it and you care too much about the outcomes dont smoke, its a form of self abuse that youll later regret your feelings ARE important, but clearly you are around those who dont atm respect your feelings, because theyve been able to get away without it for so long. I suggest therapy ASAP, or finding youtube therapist channels which resonate, such as crappy childhood fairy who addresses such topics It maybe that ur surrounded by narcisstic personalities, even if not, youll gain much insight from learning about such i speak as one who kept shutting up and putting up until i ended up accumulating so much internal stress i developed ME/CFS which forced me to learn to say no, protect myself etc people WILL take advantage if you give them that opening. it shouldnt be like that, but it is n besides, boundries n self respect are v healthy
It's super weird, especially since IRL I know mousy, nerdy, 'good girls' who are incredibly sexually experienced and more outgoing 'bad girls' who might do drugs or have other risky behavior but are virgins into adulthood. While it's not as common now, there was a just as condescending 'bad girl goes good' arc, but it was more about 'finally taming that independent shrew into becoming a good mother and housewife'.
I think about this living in Japan. Japanese women are seen as virginal and "clean" by default based on how they act and speak, but reality tells a very different story, based on countless things seen and heard and society in general. A LOT of pre-marital sexing and pre-/post-marital cheating goes on here. But me, walking around as a black woman, am instantly seen as promiscuous and am approached as such even though I'm, in fact, a virgin. Put a picture of me next to the picture of an experienced young Japanese woman and ask someone who they think is the virgin and they'd never pick my picture. This world is really weird.
I never had a celebrity or boy band crush when I was in my teens, I also had only one crush in high school but nothing came from it. People get a weird shock expression on when I told them I’m a virgin. I had one guy at a work place sexually harassing me constantly, especially when he found out I was a virgin, by telling me to watch porn or look at lewd images. He one time said dress more “feminine” at work, and get this he told me I was like a colouring book that doesn’t have any “colour”. He probably thought I was docile enough not to tell the office, boy was he wrong 😂. He got fired from my workplace after I listed all the things he said to me.
Haha your description of the good girl- homebody, hands out with family loved arts & crafts and womanly activities, is so me except I dress like a vixen.
I watched a movie called "Jab We Met" over 30 times. Geet was a good girl but rebellious, blunt and always got herself into trouble. In the movie, on her way to her home, she befriends Aditya (the good guy) and unknowingly saves him from commiting suicide. With her non-stop talking, she also irritates him and gets yelled at by him. However, when she misses her train, Aditya saves her and both get closer. Geet was in love with Anshuman and runs away from home. But the guy rejects her and she slips into depression. What I liked about Geet's characterization is that she was transparent and outspoken. She was both wise and innocent but never let anyone take advantage of her kindness. When she was depressed, she was supported by Aditya. They both fall in love. The other guy, she was previously in love with, returns and proposes to her. But, this time Geet rejects him and marries Aditya. In the movie both the good characters are treated properly. Geet does not abandon Aditya because Anshuman returns and realizes his mistake. She does not let that feeling of "rejection and acceptance" manipulate her decision. She does not forget how she was treated. She does not treat Aditya as the second guy but returns his feelings and acts on it. For Aditya, he treated Geet with respect and does not take advantage of her vulnerability. He understands her impulsiveness, reasons with her and when she does not listen to him. He helps her reach to her boyfriend in a safer way. He does not expect her to reciprocate or think about his feelings. He, too changes, from a gloomy and stiff guy to happier man. He understands the mechanisms of love. However, throughout the story he remains the good guy. Over the years, Aditya's character has become a heartthrob amongst women. Whenever, a woman is asked about her ideal man, she always answers- Aditya from Jab We Met. It's been 16 years but both Aditya and Geet have remained iconic characters. 😊
I have a personal gripe with the good girl... In real life I am often placed in this role by others even though I have much more nuance and am multifaceted because I choose to be "pure". I have a more innocent look or demeanor and Because I'm not promiscuous, I'm observed as a prude or even had a friend say I might be asexual (definitely not!). Because I choose to be kind, empathetic, and feminine. Because I don't believe people are inherently bad and can tell the difference. I feel when people create this image of me it overshadows my true self or any flaws I might have to the point where opening up means "defying" the perception they made up on their own. I can tell how people look up to me this way yet are confused when I fall short of their view. Nobody can truly be placed in a box this way, it's inaccurate. Most people have "both" and they aren't as dual as people make it seem. In truth, I have my own darkness and "demons" but just keep it to myself and try not to let it affect the way I treat others. Yet, somehow others can't see that in me and it has made for some very limiting relationships where I often feel used yet not really seen or validated. People also often look up to me to save them or "influence them positively" because I'm empathetic and perceived as good, but the truth is I struggle to save myself and there is nobody who really sees that.
I get what you’re saying but I hope you learn that our dark side (shadow side) isn’t inherently always bad. I can embody different elements of good and bad through different traits but it’s important to know it isn’t your responsibility to change people’s perception of you. This is something I grapple with but I know I can get away with somewhat because I look tall
Sorry but this problem seem very imaginary. Why would being a good person limit your relationships? Most good people have lots of friends maybe you need to stop being lazy and get over it.
I was the “good girl” most of my life and I have to say it’s really hard to break away from that because people expect good girl behaviour from you all your life. When you want to change it’s like people don’t let you, they want you to stay in that box
A great essay video as always! I just would like to point out that Taylor's reputation album era was more of a persona of bad-ass girl dealing with her critics, rather than bad-sexy girl. That's why she's back to lovey dovey in her Lover album era.
The videos I've watched so far about 'The Something-something Girl Trope' have always ended on a positive note, wow, thank you for that. I've always been the good girl, and I've always thought, 'Oh no, am I one day going to be bad? Am I suppressing anything? Am I going to change? Am I *supposed* to change?' But now I realize, there's not much I am suppressing, sure I need to learn how to better express my anger, conflicting opinions, darker feelings or desires, but yeah I don't want to change really. Sometimes I have times where I just wanna be 'dangerous' (meaning I just listen to Good-Girl-Gone-Bad-like music and lose myself in it😂) but then I always come back to the 'good girl' persona I have. I realize it's okay to have all these other sides to me, I don't have to pick one or the other, I can be all of them. Also, I won't change, I'll just grow and expand all the characteristics I can have. Wow. Just wow. And just to add, someone who's taught me that you don't have to change from being a good girl is a K-pop girl group called Twice. In K-pop there's concepts and at a certain time, groups switch from their bright, cute, innocent or schoolgirl/schoolboy concept to a more mature one, mature isn't just sexy but also darker concepts and many others really. (Basically, that's what I've seen) But Twice never really abandoned their cute, bright, bubbly concept for a mature one, they evolved into that mature concept while still retaining their image of Twice. Like I don't know how to explain it but yes, they've shown me they can do both and not lose their essence and sound. So I too do not have to change, I can adopt more mature feelings or thoughts but still retain my 'goodness'. Yeah.
As Hilary Duff's song "I am" said: "I'm an angel, I'm a devil, I am sometimes in between I'm as bad as it can get and good as it can be". We are just struggling with life like everyone. I always strived to be the good girl, the one that stayed out of trouble and made her parents proud. Life taught me I could be a good girl and still make bad choices and mistakes and that is ok because I'm a human and learning like everybody else, that trouble is part of life and that just being myself is something I can be proud of
The most memorable woman I ever met was a schoolteacher. During the day and the weekdays you would say she looked like a nice looking schoolteacher which she was, but come Friday evening and the weekend the single most X-rated woman I had ever met. Both versions of her were authentic and I enjoyed and respected them both. You have no idea what that nerdy chick might be like behind closed doors. My father taught us that most people live on the inside not the outside. Can't judge a book by its cover. You have open it up.
One of your best videos yet! Well done. I'm so glad you included Nancy from Stranger Things -- she has one of my favorite (and one of the most wholesome) character arcs in recent tv, in my opinion.
Not directly related, but as a Christian, I've gotten a lot of flack from people for: not getting drunk (I drink socially and in moderation), not doing drugs or smoking, and especially saving sex for marriage.
I would be classified as the "good girl" along with the "tom-boy" archetype. But no I'm not a door mat and I don't know act as an opposition to the "hot" or "mean girl". No I'm not provocative but I'm not modest either; I can be both, I can be duel. Why can't society see us a duel!
Cause you shall be seen as whole, always. You're the sum of your own individual mixture from all sorts of boxes and "outside of the box". :3 You should be seen as you, a human. And it takes more work and social skillset to do so, so ppl still struggle with that concept. It's OK! We'll all get used to it eventually ;D
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Alex Russo was not a complete good girl because she’s manipulative and selfish
Also the idea that someone is "naïve" or "unintelligent" because they choose be more "quiet" or are "overly polite" is such a weird thing. The nicest people get the most shit for no reason honestly
It's often ppl who are insecure who are obsessed with finding something bad about the "good girl" or "good guy", because they can't believe someone can just be nice, non-confrontational and mind their business
And they think cynical arrogant men=intelligent. That's why a lot of boys act rude and loud and think they are smart for it.
this. you can be complex and multifaceted.
@@emmamusic4600 me too!
@@Alex-ok5tp Lets not forget when you're an introvert. They think you never have an opinion and you're not open minded, and they think the good girls only purpose in life is to save the bad boy or bad girl
also, good girls are always portrayed as naive as if you can't be smart AND nice, and then people correlate kindness with being boring
Or mistake your “I don’t give a fuck” attitude for being nice when I just don’t want to waste my time arguing with annoying people.
@@belle-ashton2167 I’m going to take a look at it. It screams my duality personality traits
I find this to be untrue. Often, this trope is in conjunction with the “nerdy girl” trope, although there is the “ditzy nice girl” trope, both happen very often, not only the ditzy one.
@@ritaevergreen7234 Can’t wait to have your impression on it! I also loved how Spielberg’s Maria had more agency and was empowered by the new script.
Also you can go from naïve about certain things to being more well adjusted while still being "good". Not to mention when naïve is spoken about it's usually in relation to relationships (general term) and social norms rather than other types of intelligence.
And being virginal is also added to the being good label which is like ... idk insert choice word here XD.
Okay, but people who make fun of others for being virgins are definitely overcompensating for something though. It's the same as people making fun of others who don't drink. Like imagine being so insecure with yourself that you absolutely must have everyone around you find enjoyment in the same thing that you do.
Agreed. It's such a weird thing too.
It's definitely in part to do with insecurity. It's like when my brother kept trying to force me to do and watch things he liked and when I didn't also enjoy them he'd get annoyed and defensive. If you really find it that great, then someone else simply (politely) expressing a different opinion shouldn't change that! You don't need other people to have the same interests and hobbies to validate them.
I have never seen that conversation play out like that in real life ever.
Not necessarily, I don't think. I think in many cases (not in all cases tho) people are just socialized into thinking not drinking or not having had sex by some age is weird, shameful, and funny, and so they act on what they've been taught. In that sense, it's more sociological than psychological. But it's also rarely one or the other, and how much of each is varies based on a person.
Bottom line, I know it's appealing to say that people that do shitty things secretly feel bad, are overcompensating for something, etc, but it seems sometimes they just do what they've been taught to do.
@@fonteneausimon8898 Like you said, though, it's not necessarily one or the other. The two things are interconnected. The way we're socialised and influenced by how we're taught to be gives us these insecurities when we don't live up to them. And because we've internalised these ideas, we can feel confused (and even threatened) when other people don't conform and do the same (not saying people only drink to conform but it's still often seen as the norm) because there is validation in doing something that lots of other people do. If someone isn't doing it, we might have to question why we are and because it's so conventionally accepted we often don't think about it. Saying it's "insecurities" might be an oversimplification but it stems from truth.
Here's a thought: The 'bad girl' trope inherently relates to sexuality but the 'bad boy' trope always relates to anti-social behaviour/violence/self-destruction. Interesting conflict and double standard? I think so.
You're right that it relates to those things too, but the "bad boy" is inherently promiscuous too. I just think all men are often viewed as inherently horny so it doesn't seem as notable. There are too kinds of guys, those who want sex and get it, and those who want sex and don't get it.
@@mankytoes Yes! you're totally right about men and promiscuity. It's not notable because it's the norm. It does not hold the same weight of being 'bad' because it's expected. That could be a video here in itself!
Yup. But the problem is that sexuality and promiscuity is seen as bad. It shouldn’t be because sexual history doesn’t define anybody’s character.
@@exoticsamba492 it somewhat does, if u cheat than you most likely will again and if you have slept with 100 people vs someone who has slept with 10, there is a difference in standards and how you see sex. I think everyone has the right to do as they wish as long as its consensual but I would not date someone who has slept with 50+ people because it indicates we have different standards and understandings of things, be friends if their a cool person tho
@@tashaely3660 Cheating is NOT the same as having a sexual history lol.
Also, it’s interesting that y’all only use this argument against promiscuous women but never on promiscuous males.
Listen, if a man can sleep around and still be conserved nice, so can women.
Sexual history doesn’t determine anyone’s character. Because guess what? Modest virgin women can be just as evil and abusive/toxic. Being modest/virgin doesn’t mean you have a pure/kind heart LOL.
And sexual women can be just as pure and kind.
Purity culture is toxic and dangerous. Stop.
I'm 26 and still a virgin, and I'm tired of people making fun of me or thinking I'm a prude. I've just never met someone I wanted to have sex with, and hooking up sounds really unappealing to me.
I'm tired of being labeled as a "Good girl". Nothing wrong with that, but people just put me in a box when they learn I haven't had sex.
I understand that. I was a virgin until 23. That year, I wanted to experience sex and feel like a grown woman, in a very bad girl way. In a sense of trope, I grew up more in a ”not like the other girls" way. After a few boring experience, I stopped and swore to only with someone I have feeling for. Now at 30, I have finally found my man, the wait was worth it. And the sex is finally what it should be, making love
I’m celibate by choice until I’m married, and no man in sight. But I’m ok with that! My gosh, sex isn’t everything! There are so many other wonderful experiences in life that we can have!
Omg I am literally 26 and a virgin too and I was just thinking of making this exact comment!!! We exist!!!
I’m celibate by choice but honestly it’s read as a red flag by male or female of any orientation and I’m getting lonely and sick of it. I’m literally thinking of getting rid of it by having sex with a younger guy even, who seem to be more willing to give me a break and understand than the ones my age. Let’s see. I feel weird at 26 too.
It's like when you're asexual and people expect you to be naive and ignorant because of that. But I'm asexual, I never had sex... and if a sex joke has to be made, I'll be the one who made it. I'm not prude, I just don't want to have sex.
To quote a certain meme: "There are no boring alignments. You're just bad at character development."
THIS
I feel like a "good girl" is a bit like a "nice guy". Ok, great, but what else do you have going on? These are pretty bland descriptions without further information.
@@mankytoes Exactly. It's just a trait. They have capacity for complexity.
DnD; being a lawful good can be really fun if you play it right. Your character can still be as weird as you want.
Captain Holt is a perfect example of an interesting lawful good character
as a "good girl", i'm extremely annoyed when people who are more experienced/outgoing treat me like some sort of pet or baby. they like to feel superior to us. they like to think that we're naïve and don't know anything about life. they looove putting us in boxes. suddenly you cuss and they believe is so scandalous lmao. like ok emily, we know you've been drinking since you were 14, i absolutely don't care 🙄✋
I feel this hard. Revealed during a drinking game at a party that I'd never been in a relationship and the tone was very "Aww that's so cute" by every other girl there, who at max were only 3 years older than me (21). I'm just antisocial and generally uninterested in dating for the sake of it. A lot of my closer friends who weren't at that party are the same so I know I'm not unique. It's like people think having sex or a partner makes you mature, but then they describe their relationships and its a field of red flags that shows their immaturity.
@@teapartypenguin1353 completely agree! People who feel mature/better because they had some experiences (usually mediocre) are just insecure or unsatisfied. Don't pay attention to them :)
Just be you girl. Don't care about what these people do. They just shove their insecurity on to you like it's your fault. Sis you are amazing just keep being yourself and don't do things just coz of the society
So truee omg
@@teapartypenguin1353 excuse me, but I have a question, althought I doubt that you're gonna see this: You say you're antisocial and not interested on dating, but you would say that it's because you're in the aromantic and asexual spectrum, or you actually feel romantic, sexual and other kinds of attractions, but just don't want any relationship right now? I apologize if it's too personal, and I understand if you don't want to answer, but i really would like to know it... And if you know why I wanna know it calms you down, it's because I'm trying to define my sexuality, and I think this would help me.
I don’t really know what to say, but sometimes I wish they would bring good characters back. Restoring a sense of balance on different character types and have them coexist with each other.
They’ve never really went away, the only difference is that now they make them more 3 dimensional so that they aren’t only just defined by their “goodness”.
Another thing that I find messed up about this trope is that they always contrast her with the “whore” and raise up the good girl and bring down the more sexually liberated girl.
@@escabasket153 not all the time
:-)
Sex Education is a show with a lot of good, human characters Imo
The problem with the “good girl gone bad” is that not only appears in film and tv but also many celebrities go through that phase.
Yup especially with the Disney channel girls
Both the good girl/guy and bad girl/guy can be gimmicks or "masks" IMO.
@@Missmagazinebura a very small amount that’s generalized
90% of Disney channel girls stayed good they just don’t get the media attention so people aren’t aware of them
@@madnessarcade7447 Yeah, so they arent celebreties anymore. If you want to stay famous, there is pretty much only one way and thats the good girl gone bad way.
Yeah. Billie Eilish is the new example.
Before she didn't want to sexualise herself. Now she's trying herself out and everyone is like "buhuu, she's a hypocrite". Instead of...you know. A person. Who can change
Is kind of irritating that the only outcome media offers for "the good girl" is making her "gone bad" there have to be more storylines and struggles because this whole "hey good girl, live a little" seems condesending.Maybe i am just biassed by personal experience.Edit: love that they did gave us examples at the end
Because we live in a Culture of Personality where the goal is to stand out from others. It is a system that encourages people to be constantly expressive and showing off your "Personality". We are expected to market ourselves in order to be successful. **Take a look at media and how often the character journey is introversion --> extroversion**. It was not until very recently that experts discuss that being an introvert is as perfectly acceptable as an extrovert. But we as a society in the west actually hold low opinions of introverts, and the message differs depending on gender.
I honestly think this is why Rory Gilmore went so bad. No one trusted that the audience would want to follow a good girl start to finish so they made her awful.
I think the worst line writers sometimes take (at the extreme end of things) is taking the "naive, sweet girl" and "breaking her down" for the sake of "character development", because apparently they can only mature and learn about the world if something awful happens to them. It also sends off the harmful idea that trauma makes people stronger and they have a moment of "in a strange way, I'm glad this terrible thing happened to me because it made me the person I am today", which is just - wrong on so many levels.
@@jacobodom8401 how ro stand out as a women today
Hello im a virgin and want marriage before sex
I WAS LITERALLY ABOUT TO SAY THIS
Something I'm surprised they didn't mention, but the good girl is also almost always white. it fits in with the thought that white women are the standard for beauty, femininity, and purity, especially blond ones. Many of the "bad girls" featured had bark hair, were more tanned, or were women of color. Aside from the "lotus blossom" trope for Asian women, WOCs are never seen as "good girls".
Yasssss that is something I noticed (also bad girls get to showcase curves)
I agree, I can’t think of a single recent example of a good girl who was white or had light features 😔
Yes I agree. And if they are the good girl, they almost always get wronged in a way. Bonnie from The Vampire Diaries comes to mind. She was the best character, but they wrote her in a way so the only reason for her existence was to help everyone else at her own expense. All throughout the show I was waiting and thinking: "When is Bonnie going to get something nice?" And it never happened.
idk, i've seen a nerdy black girl trope, maybe that counts as part of the "good girl" umbrella
@@theunknown5386 When did anyone say they wanted to be one?
The issue is that the "goodness" or "badness" of this trope is reliant on the male gaze. A woman is "good" if she doesn't sleep around, and men don't find her sexy. The opposite being true would make her "bad."
It goes back to women not having an identity that is independent of the way that men view them.
For centuries, men have been telling our stories, and even acting on the behalf of women. We're in a time where more women are writing these stories, and we're figuring out how to portray ourselves in a way that is as authentic and nuanced as possible.
Women should be able to simply exist without having all of these labels put onto them by men. Especially as it seems that we're punished and ridiculed either way. Just be you ladies!
Also, a woman should not be expected to be a man's tamer.
Not only that... the emphasis of how women should be and live by the rules according to men, for example "striking down the Roe vs Wade" that is beneficial to women's health and well-being. This is why women are taking things into their hands and stay independent. Writing stories by women for women is best for us, using our bodies however we want by our choices and right, moreover, living our best selves is crucial to us. In addition, is it also that this good girl image synonymous to the egos of Male Patriarchy aka "Male Gaze"?
I stand this, thank you very much for those words. You won't satisfy anyone either, I've battled myself between the prude and the ho and that's unfair, I'm neither of those, simply a multidimensional human being, a woman
Absolutely!
Thanks I feel like all they say is "Sexy = bad girl" "prude = good girl"
But when not assexual everyone kinda want to be looked at with desire when growing up.
Something i hate about this trope is that eventually the "good girl" ends up changing the bad, agresive and traumatized man. That's such a toxic mindset, no matter how sweet your partner is, they are not a therapist for your traumas, and it feels like people are trying to tell you that your job as a woman is being a therapist for a traumatized man. Most of the time said man is extremely agresive and toxic.
Yes, not the good girl's job!
"Weaponizing sexuality" This is so powerful. I absolutely hate it when people say that women 'control' the dating scene. It's always women who are at fault.
To add to this, could you do a video exclusively about 'women being sexy' = controlling men??
Sorry, but it's true.
@@michaelwellen2866 no.
Rule of 6.
Then provide an argument for why you think that's false. If you're rutinely forced to date and have sex with men against your will then you're being victim of a felony, it's not how society works.
All anyone wants- all “good girls” want is respect. Being good and virtuous, sexual, moody or any other thing is treated by a commodity by society. Men actively consume whichever prototype of women they see and want. That’s why I think it’s so baffling to them that women have their own thoughts/feelings and only want basic human decency, respect and someone that allows them to simply be.
cannot agree more
i've long been tired of toeing any lines, or being defined by them, and i don't like seeing people getting boxed into roles or categories they didn't choose to apply on themselves
In my twenties I also wanted to be seen has a potentialy desirable woman instead of a child or someone uptight.
@@theunknown5386 I think the problem is generalizing. Being hurt by people it's awful, so assuming everyone it's the exact same after several bad experiences it's a logical way of reacting. But the truth is that everybody is an individual, therefore not everyone it's the same. It's just a matter of expanding the limits of who we interact with at a rate that we are ok with. Then it's easier to feel less frustrated and meet people. Just, meet humans, one on one. Then things can get a bit easier. At least that is what I think. Have a good day/life!!
Once again it is men’s fault? If men have a preference in women that women don’t agree with it is seen as an insecurity or lack in something on the part of the man.
This
Rory Gilmore had a good girl reputation that outlasted her goodness. She did not play by the rules but her society treated her as if she did. Rory might be a good example of how a misleading "Good Girl" reputation can outlast its accuracy or have no merit at all.
Good catch!
So true! And I think the expectation to always be the perfect good girl led to her break-down
@@legumesss yes!!
That may explain her role in Sin City.
This video really reminds me of Pam from the office especially that scene when she says to Dwight "I love my boring life". I feel like that scene is so underrated like here is a good girl who takes no shame in the way she lives or the way she is. Pam embodies all the traits of the ' girl next door' trope and in the later seasons after she starts taking charge and becomes a much more balanced character who is comfortable in her skin. Pam learns how to take charge while still keeping her 'good girl ' values is one of the most underrated, well-written character developments
Yeah, I liked that storyline. But I can never forgive her for ending up with Jim. He was an arrogant jerk who started shit with Dwight just because he could. And she loved it. So how nice could she really be? If you're with a bad person, and you're not afraid to leave (abuse, for example, like with Roy), then you're not as good as you think.
Pam/Jim relationship is so underrated. I think it is the most healthy relationship I've ever seen in sitcoms: quiet, simple, respectful, no drama, no "you don't want me but I am perfect for you and I'm going to show you no matter what" (yeah Ted Mosby, I'm think about you 😒).
I hate that women have to be put in a box. The madonna/wbore complex is damaging to women
Then don't be one
Freud has been dead for some time now, and he was never really taken that seriously to begin with. Don’t let a dead old pervert define your life
Everyone is put in boxes that's how we all process information and make shortcuts.
Some boxes are kinda okay and some are not that's all.
so what would be the nomenclature equivalent for men? the jesus/cur complex?
@@cepahreinholt8710 we can break beyond the boxes and just take the time to remember the facts and the nuances, we don't need stereotypes as much as people think
As a lesbian it's still odd for me to hear these perspectives on female tropes because of how heavily they center men. I wish we could hear less about the way that men think, feel, and interact with women and focus more on the internal experiences of these characters and real people. Maybe it's taken for granted that good girls are those who are straight, white, and neurotypical, but even if they are there must be something more we can talk about beyond what they offer to men or how they compare to other women.
Beautifully said!
Yes. I also noticed that "love for family" is part of what makes a girl "good" which... Is all well and, ahem, *good* if the girl is fortunate enough to have a good family that isn't toxic and/or extremely dysfunctional. Why can't we have good girls with some history of trauma and not only simple "unmessy" trauma like Lara Jean having a mother who passed away, but also like. More? Sometimes it happens but. I see a lot of the tropes seem to be built around this idea that vilifies people who don't love their family or don't see the world through rose-colored glasses. But you can be someone with the goodness types of values who has had a hard life... Can't you?
agreed, but sadly women still seem to be the minority in regards or how things are run, like, how many female writers are in change or movie scripts? or judge the awards for red carpet events? women aren't give the same amount of power, which we need to change first
women judge too... shame virgins the same way. male or female
The Take crew is misandristic, that's why in their videos it's always the "mens fault" one way or another. There is a ton of stories written by women that feature "good girls". Heck, you open any Lesbian Yuri Manga (often written by women) and atleast one of the main characters is a "good girl".
Growing up I always felt pressure to be the "good girl". Get good grades, not be interested in boys/sexuality at all, and do everything "right". However, once I got older and started getting tired of certain labels, I felt so much shame doing anything that seemed outside of the standards people placed on me. Wanting to date, wanting to go out for a drink with my friends, not caring so much about looking perfect. I've finally learned that it's never black or white. You can love being home with your family AND love partying with friends. You can love "innocent things" like Disney movies and crafting or whatever lol and also enjoy sex/romance. It's taken me so long to overcome the shame of not being the "good girl", especially when that's how your family wants you to be. Therapy taught me to focus more on what being a good person/having a good life is to ME, which is being kind/loving, spending time with the people I love, doing things that make me happy, traveling, laughing, etc.
Same. I'm glad you got help ❤
I can totally relate to this
I’m the same. I have a love for inoccent things from my childhood but still enjoy more adult related things as well.
I didn't like being labeled as innocent. But I also didn't like drinking and rarely felt interested in guys.
There were illegal things I enjoyed, and I did enjoy rough sports. Almost always I was covered in bruises and I did not mind.
Yet people thought of me as innocent and feminine and childish. All because I did not smoke and drink, even when they did not know that I was a virgin. So I did cut open corpses (med school), handled disease and death and was still "pure and innocent and naive". The kind of girl they did not let walk home alone at night.
:/
i love this comment, exactly
Even though I wasn't a straight A student or "perfect" in highschool, I was considered a "good girl" and it was weird. Some people liked that I knew domestic skills, didn't dress "slutty", didn't wear makeup or stay out late, got good grades, etc. But at the same time, I was teased and made fun of for all this. I'd be called stuck-up, prude, shallow and all sorts of names. I'm lucky it didn't turn into full on bullying or harassment, but it was so annoying and I hated other people's opinions about me
You just be yourself. People easily assume a thing or another, but that can also be because they haven't spent the right amount of time with you to know you.
I experienced the same. It was weird. Once I was labeled "the good girl" I got away with so much crap. I deliberately tried to get in trouble, I was so tired of being seen as the innocent cute girl who doesn't know how the world works. Worst are some men who still see me, an adult, that way and take it upon themselves to 'educate' me.
@@sushuis6247 it's crazy isn't it? And so exhausting. Thankfully it does a bit better out of highschool imo
@@artorhen thank you. Yeah people are always so quick to judge, so I tend to ignore their opinions lol
I can relate! Thankfully I am now at a point where I am getting better at not caring what others think.
I’m a straight cisgendered male but I am not ashamed to say that I embody a lot of the good girl traits and I’m comfortable enough in my masculinity to embrace that
I am happy for you :) I'm glad it's becoming more normalised.
I had no idea how much I needed to hear that! Thank You!
Good for you man!! Fuck what people say!
@@victoriababy2205 true
@@creativia6639 🔥👍 agreed
the shaming of virgins is so weird and being a student at university we have a few students that are virgins and i sear no one makes fun of them yes maybe is a bit concerned (fake concerned) but no one would really openly shame them so bruh idk where do ya'll live but i feel for ya'll
I saw this more in high school but now that I’m in college no one cares. Most of my friends have never had sex but we’re never shamed for it and we don’t talk that much about it anyway
Yeah my experience is pretty much the same. In highschool and in college, no one really shames you for it. Some ask out of curiosity or ask about previous relationships, but not really shaming. Though that could just be my circle, I don’t hang around people that I feel don’t fit my standards of being good friends. If they shame me for shit, anything really, then they don’t meet my standards.
No one cares where am from shocked, curious maybe but than they continue with life. Why shame you what will that accomplish 👨⚖️
just a movie trope
@@zet7670 nope, happened to me a lot of times
It absolutely infuriates me when there’s a character that is a virgin and everyone just shames and ridicule them for it but when she’s lose or is no longer a virgin, she gets dragged too and treated with such little respect.
It annoys me too. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't
Black women are almost never portrayed as traditionally feminine in Hollywood
For example in bridgerton.. Daphne who is traditionally feminine and sexually innocent is portrayed by a white, blond woman. Whereas the assertive heroine in the second season is portrayed by a brown woman.
Dark skinned women are almost never shown as the 'damsels in distress' or 'pure' or 'innocent'...but always as the stereotypical 'strong female character'
This reinforces the notion that ideal Femininity can only be represented by white women.
The one who got pregnant premaritally in the first season was black too.
Well Rachel Zegler’s Maria changed the game.
@@Genevieve1023 yes that's right..
I'm inherently skeptical of "people of color" statements and am so conservative I could be the archetype, but I thought about what you said, thought about as many examples as I could - and you're right. It's crazy.
They use brunette white ladies for the same thing. Eliza Dushku was shoehorned like that.
@@belle-ashton2167 yesss I love rachel
Good girl characters are simply boring unless they learn to have more agency and personality. Women don’t need to be edgy or especially rebellious to be an interesting character. They just need to have personality and inspiring goals that they actively seek to achieve. They have to want more for themselves than just pleasing people or finding love.
i'm trying to picture men in the role of these boring good girl characters as according to your description, but then i keep imagining them as Molly Weasleys, and that somehow makes them interesting again
maybe good girls are interesting, they're just executed poorly by writers and directors....
I'm being picky here but i think you kean to say they need to be written better.
"Characters" can't learn anything because they're not real. They need people who can WRITE them with agency and more personality.
@@melodramatic7904 So you understood what I said but decided to attempt to “correct” me anyways? And characters DO learn things within the story. It’s obviously up to the writer to make them learn and grown.
@@driftingdruid A character that’s only trait is “good” with no flaws or development at all is boring. Nobody likes a Mary (Or Larry) Sue. Not sure how anyone could misinterpret my simple comment.
True. It's not the "good girl trope" that makes them boring it's the fact that the writers rarely ever put in the effort to add any deeper levels to the character and they become a one-dimensional stereotype of what femininity looks like. Therefore in contrast the bad girl or wild girl looks more interesting because more often than not the writers put more time into making them an actual person.
When you are a "good girl" and get upset or angry, people treat you like you are a monster or become another person 😴
I used to be seen as the “good girl” and I dated a guy in the grade above mine who broke up with me because I was a virgin and then he stole my virginity from me. He had the nerve to laugh during the whole thing and he kept saying “I’ve been waiting for this forever” then he blocked me and moved away.
The projections we place onto each other as humans is very dehumanising. We end up seeing each other as ideas that need to be conquered, things that need to be fixed etc. We’re all so multidimensional, and we should be allowed to exist as such ❤️
@Carney Reya thank you ❤️
I’m so sorry you experienced this hun. The same thing happened to me when I was younger. I hope you are doing better now and fully accepting who you are ❤️💞
@@Ang_Nicole I’m sorry to hear that you experienced the same thing ❤️ I hope that you’ve healed, just as I have 🌻🌈
I’m sorry that happend to you babe :(
Thank you so much Love ❤️
Here’s my take on the good girl: I notice most times whenever it comes to tv, people often label the good girl as boring. I personally believe this stems from the lack of trauma good girl characters often are written to have. It’s similar to how in real life people tend to dislike people who seem whole and healthy because maybe they had a traumatic childhood so that persons contrast to themself makes them feel inferior even IF the person has never treated or acted like they were better than them. People can’t relate to what they don’t know, unfortunately. And a lot of times if we feel like we lacked something in a certain area whether that be personality wise, etc. we’ll take it out on others who we feel had it better than us. I just honestly feel like society demonizes anything seen as good and praises anything seen as bad. And a lot of it comes from our own projections. Good girls aren’t boring, they’re just written in a way that seems perfect but fails to acknowledge that even good women have battles in life. And if you’re a good girl, please be proud of that and happy with that. There is nothing wrong with being good ❤️.
Too late I became s bitter used resentful badass of a woman because I got sick of being taken advantage by men. Being a goo girl sucks better to smart and assertive instead and balaced
it's definitely strange being the good girl with trauma, because people are surprised or don't think in the first place that you've been through bad things. Going through trauma does not exempt you from being a good girl.
@@RED-my9hl agreed. I've always been labeled "good girl" and "perfect" but have gone through years of verbal and emotional abuse. This abuse made it difficult to be assertive and I've had to do a lot of work to have more confience. I battle every day. People assume my life was easy and it goes to show that people judge without really knowing anything about a person.
I feel this so strongly! Thanks for verbalizing it. Sometimes it definitely feels like I have to "pay" again for coping with childhood trauma but also trying to radiate love through a kinda "good girl lifestyle". So everybody thinks I am capable of doing so because my life has been near to perfect so far, when in reality I experienced the opposite but chose and worked to not let it influence how I treat other people today 🤍
as Taylor says in Nothing New:
They tell you while you're young
"Girls, go out and have your fun"
Then they hunt and slay the ones who actually do it
Criticize the way you fly when you're soarin' through the sky
Shoots you down and then they sigh, and say
"She looks like she's been through it"
Katy Perry kinda embodies this to me, she made music and had eras that was flexible in whatever femininity she wanted to express, like California Girls, Roar, E.T, and Swish all have different tones but she never abandoned her girly aesthetic while taking on new ones throughout the years
Yeah but she was really big and huge in the early 2010s, whereas in the late 2010s she kind of struggle to stay relevant. Though there could be many other reasons/factors for that.
I wasn't regarding it to her relevancy but that is true, she's generally just around and is a judge on American Idol nowadays
no she was more of a rebel her first major hit was i kissed a girl she was bubbly and girly but she use her sex apeal to get attention too. Love her as an artist tho
A) why is being a virgin a bad thing? It used to be seen as a privilege and now we are forced to think we have to have sex so we’re not seen as prudes.
B) sometimes I wonder if the good girl has to be with the bad boy because the nice boys want the bad girls.
I know this is not the case, but after seeing it portrayed like this all of the time, it begs this question.
Women are usually demonized for not being virgins, for wanting and having sex. The expectations and forceful beliefs that women shouldn't enjoy sex isn't a privilege.
Am I saying women have to have sex? No.
But women should be able to want it and do it and not be seen as evil for it.
@@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385 i didn’t mean to put it that way.
I just hate how virgins are being seen as bad and women who are having sex are more praised compared to the past like it is to be expected.
Either way the double standards with both is ridiculous.
No one should feel guilty for either choice.
@@gabrielleduplessis7388 Women are still largely hated for having sex.
No, women shouldn't be pressured to be a virgin or have sex.
But the hate for women being sexual beings has to stop.
It's worse for men.
@@jascrandom9855 Are guys killed for not having had sex like women are for not being virgins?
Ok, if Zooey Deschanel is ‘not attractive’, I should be a celibate till I die. What has society come to? 😂
But she wears glasses lol
They are not saying Zoey is not attractive. They say her character (Jess) is seem as less attractive by the male characters in the show because she is 'desexualized', especially comparing her to her best friend, who's a model and appears sexualized, again, from the male perspective. They are saying the "good girl" is a pretty girl, but doesn't have any sex appeal to the eyes of the men who surround her.
@@carlathedestructor2454 All we want is some random person to take it off our faces and tell us we look although we have trust issues when someone wears our glasses 😂
@@blanqui2040 I know. I was just kidding.
@@PokhrajRoy. oh, sorry
Another way that THE GOOD PLACE reverses a glass if Good Girl trope is that (as you pointed out) often a good girl is shown as the only one who can reform a particular bad boy. In THE GOOD PLACE, however, it is Good Boy (Chidi) who is shown to be the one who can reform Bad Girl (Eleanor).
Yeah you’re right. We don’t see that often do we?
I absolutely love that show
Also we have a tall, curvy brown skinned woman as the posh girly girl and a tiny white woman as the “Arizona trash” which I found refreshing
I’m so tired of hearing that characters who are meek, cooperative, or can’t quickly think what to say or do are fundamentally boring and passive. We need a new rule that we stop for a minute and think a little harder before we declare a character lacking in development or in significant character flaws because they’re quiet or nice. Like, yo, we know that people’s flaws are often the flip side of their good qualities, do we really think there’s no dark side to being the quiet, cooperative type? Like, yo, I am meek, cooperative, hesitant and nice, but I am also real, probably complicated to a fault, and, let’s be real, kind of a human disaster area.
I guess no one has to want to watch me on tv, but I wish I didn’t have to hear so often that any character I particularly identify with was a bland mistake of weak writing.
Well, let's be honest, this trope and it's perspective originated from jaelousy that the "good girl" minds their own business. The characters that are nice or have many acomplishments on Tv are always portrayed in a way that slanders them in order to appeal to the people who don't indentify with the trope than to appeal to the ones that find themselves in it.
But they are boring and passive. Characters don’t have to be role models either. Being meek is not a good thing.
THIS. So many complaints of characters being "one-dimensional" or "boring" are completely unfounded and just go to show a lack in media literacy for most of the general populace. Like, no Sharon, these characters aren't poorly written, you just don't have the critical thinking skills necessary to enjoy properly written media. It's like everyone other than us has the attention span and memory capacity of a goldfish.
Every man should be required to watch this and respect women for whoever they choose to be.
You can only respect those who earn it. If men have to earn respect, then women will have to as well in a world of equality... if there is such a thing.
@@mikejohn29mj That's not the conversation I was having here and if that's your knee-jerk reaction that's more about you than anyone else.
I'm talking about the video.
Everybody has their mix of good and bad and women have been manipulated through these tropes as they discussed in the video.
Men (and women) do this shit to women all the time as a form of control. Shaming women for being prude and shaming women for being promiscuous.
We need to cut this shit out.
@@fiyahspinnah thank you
This has limits though, Greenbaum. This has limits though.
So, the Good Girl is basically a double standard of celibacy, while the Good Boy saves people's lives and fights villains and monsters?!
Thank you! This is my life! I've often been labeled a "good girl" but then when I swear or make a dirty joke people say things like "I don't get you. One second you're a good Christian girl, then you say things like that. Just pick one!" So.....good girls aren't allowed to make the same jokes as everyone else? It's so frustrating! Thank you for putting my life into words!
@CooP-dg7kyHello stranger on the internet. I’m a very strong Christian who reads the scriptures everyday. Sometimes I just slip up and a swear word slips out. Please don’t judge me because my bad habits are different than yours. Nobody’s perfect, which is why Jesus came in the first place. Thanks ❤
Thank you! I’ve always related to these “good girl” characters. I’ve been called a “goody two shoes” as an insult, by my peers. But why is striving for morality a bad thing? I honestly just want people to feel loved and taken care of and happy. 🥺
I'm guess they assume that you're like arrogant or something
Also interesting how many try hard to get the good girl, to have sex with her or break her. I acted like the good girl, stayed away from boys, parties etc and it brought on more attention that I didnt want until I did and I used it to my advantage but it caused more problems than good in the end cause you get used, people take advantage when you're vulnerable
sorry that happened to you, it absolutely sucks to be used, and i strongly dislike this whole notion of "breaking" people
Same with me.. I used to over heard guys say “I want to sleep with her because she’s a virgin” I didn’t know if they liked me or because they wanted to feel special
its never good to stoop to the level expected of you for sure, its good you were able to realize you didn't like it and found a way to break free of that, though i'm not sure there is a way to realize for ourselves how to become our best self without doing dangerous things and hurting others, pain is how we learn
My goodness. This exact same thing happened to me and I swear it gave me some serious trauma that I'm still trying to break free from even to this day.
@@bull3tcoff1n i'm sorry to hear that, it sucks having to live a certain way in life, be what you think people want you to be, i hate the way alot of men make women feel they have to be
When will women be able to exist in peace and be allowed to be multifaceted and unique.
And the bad girl is the rebel and the complete opposite of the good girl but they end up as friends like cat and jade from victorious and Veronica and Betty from riverdale .
opposites entertain
@zet7670 -- Perfect summation of the truth in tv-land. Irl, total opposites (in morals/values, life goals, ways of thinking, etc. versus just personality clash as it's often made out to be in media), rarely attract so much as repel each other. Irl if you think differently from someone but have the same values, you're more likely to end up on the same side or in any kind of positive or healthy relationship than with someone who has a thought process that is similar in manner to yours but has completely opposing values, boundaries on means and methods, etc.
Sick of the "bad boy" being" saved" by a good girl! It's so toxic and teaches women that they can" fix" men. No man is worth" fixing " if they don't change for themselves they aren't worth your time . It teaches women to stay with bad low quality/ character men who abuse them.
For some reason when they started talking about the way women have to fragment themselves I started thinking of the lyrics “I’m a bitch, I’m a lover, I’m a child, I’m a mother, I’m a sinner, I’m a saint….” That’s who we should all be allowed to be- many sides.
I have been a good girl since forever but had father that would use me a punching bag and as a lesson to my siblings. I have been called naive, childish, stupid even though I am very street smart, have a doctorate and been independent. I became "bad" but it was trauma and emotional/mental issues. I am so glad I never fully gave in what people wanted me to be. Lots of people try to push into our boundaries and belief. Don't let them. Its just hard though.. because people usually try to change us when we are trying to get to know our true selves and sabotages our growth. God, breaks from work and meditation helped me to to get back to my true self.
I remember my aunt shaming me constantly and calling me "boring" because according to her I was a good girl who wasn't interested challenging rules or getting a boyfriend. I wasn't doing it on purpose or trying to be different. I genuinely wasn't into that. Women can't win.
Some people say those things because they are jealous. Jealous that you and others don’t fall for peer pressure. Maybe they didn’t want to do what they did but they didn’t have the gut to stand out for what they really wanted to do. They perceive you as strong for not going with the flow.
@@-.a9942 absolutely. That's a fact. I didn't realize at the time that she was jealous. He daughter complains that she keeps comparing her to me.
I was a part of this trope my whole teenage years and didn't care, but, for some reason, i feel ashamed of like that in university. I have a hard time accepting being sensitive, introverted, shy, inexperienced, someone who prefers to stay at home watching anime and asian dramas than partying...
But, i found out, now that i'm adult, that people ar way more complex than that. I'm sensitive, introverted, have a "good girl" vibe and i found that i love boxing and it's a new hobbie. I freaking love boxing so much!! (As well as fighting and martial arts in general).
On behalf of all good girls who are now middle aged women, I thank you for exploring this trope!
It's so frustrating how you're treated like a child for being a "good girl". I'm a "good girl". I have this coworker, who I actually, do like, but sometimes the way she talks to me can be patronizing and condescending. I'm christian, a virgin, introverted, and polite, whereas she has a lot of sexual experience, started drinking at 14, ECT. She treats me like a child, even though there's only a 3 year difference between us (I'm 21, she's 23). She often treats me like a child, some of the things she says to me are "Oh, sweety" (condescendingly), "I have to protect your Innocence/innocent ears" (whenever she or our other coworkers says something "naughty"), or "Your life is so boring" (cause I don't party or have a lot of friends). It's so frustrating, that just because I'm quiet and have never been in a relationship, I'm labeled as "innocent", "naive", and "childlike", which is so far from the truth. My whole life I've been exposed to the darker side of the world. Both my mother and grandmother are rape victims and suffered abuse as children. All my parents grew up poor, and I did as well in my younger years. My parents trauma negativity affected their parenting skills, leading to multiple people in my immediate family feeling suicidal and one suicide attempt. I personally have struggled with depression and social anxiety for the last 6 years. To top it all off, when I was 16, I was moved to a country where I didn't understand the language, culture, and education system, and to this day, I still can't speak the language well. After all that, to be called innocent and naive is just so utterly infuriating. My coworker doesn't know about my past, which I can't blame her for since I haven't told her, but what I can blame her for is the fact that it never crossed her mind that there may be more to me. The automatic assumption that there isn't anything more because I'm a "good girl" is what I find the most frustrating.
It’s dumb and is hella annoying. You can’t judge a person at first glance without actually getting to know them on a deeper level.
To lend some perspective from a guy. There will be large or muscle-bound guys who get all tatted up, have piercings, do their hair or dress a certain way, display the typical “bad boy” appearance or at least what they think constitutes a “bad boy” archetype. Especially, when they grew up in the suburbs, gated communities, or affluent neighbourhoods with an abundance of resources, safety, opportunities and privileges. They only do this because it’s trendy and they know it is what women generally find externally attractive. Anybody can get tattoos, piercing, do drugs, drink, and smoke. Those things are easy to do. And it gets tiresome, boring and predictable after awhile. It’s usually unimpressive. Being a bad boy or bad person is easy. Being a genuinely good person through and through on a daily basis no matter what, is an entirely different beast. That has my utmost respect.
Meanwhile, juxtapose to the bad boy, you have an small quiet unassuming and maybe even “meek/nerdy” looking guy who is genuinely a good person. But is a refugee, who lives in the ‘hood wearing cheap prescription glasses and hand-me down clothing. Who has been through some hard and unimaginable shit like seeing family members raped or die right in front of them through poverty, famine, and war. Among contending with other social maladies. All the while surviving one issue after another. But yet carry with them some of the greatest humanistic qualities - good character, loyalty, committed to familial responsibilities and duties, unbothered by superficiality and physical appearance, compassion/empathy/selflessness, fearlessness, hard work, and a strong moral compass.
Another example I’ll provide is the “good/innocent” girls living in poor developing countries who like watching “corny” lovey-dovey shows like kdramas and telenovelas and listening to cheesy love songs or something. Who may also day-dream of a house with the white picket fence in a safe and quiet neighbourhood. Doesn’t have to be a big house or a wealthy area even. But unfortunately outside their windows or doors is an environment of piss, shit, death and sorrow. Those harmless bubble-gum entertainment provides them hope and some form of escapism from their harsh reality.
Then you have some girls living in affluent boring and mundane neighbourhoods/communities. Who like to consume “dark,” “gritty,” “naughty and risqué” media (writing, entertainment, music etc.). Maybe dabble in some tattoos, piercings, hair dye, and sexualized clothing as well to look edgy. Some may even travel to some bad areas of town or the city for a sense of excitement. And if they feel extra adventurous, galavant to a poor or violent country for a small getaway. But when shit hits the fan, their privilege will almost always bail them out. Meanwhile, those girls or women in very low socioeconomic situations have little to no chance of escaping their environment.
I’ve had the rare privilege of witnessing both sides. Point is, one can’t fit anyone into a simple small box without actually getting to know them deeper or more intimately. Not stereotypically. Especially, not from outward appearance alone and first impressions. People are more complicated than what Hollywood or mainstream media portray them as.
U seem alot like me!
You’ve just described my whole life! Ive literally been treated differently by other people just because I come off as shy and soft spoken. It’s especially really annoying when they talk to you like a child too smh
this made me want to cry thank you so very very much for making this....i just lost a job for being to good everyone attacked me so often and sneak dissed me that I couldn't bring myself to go back I felt like i was turning into them and I just couldn't accept that.....this was so perfectly made I needed this so bad
Me too! I had the same experience I remember I called one out and everyone got shocked because they thought I was the good girl and won’t say anything. I finally left and I realize how toxic everyone was.
The problem is : goodness or "badness" is associated with sex. And sex is associated with purity. If you have traditional views on sex and relationships, you're good. If you don't, you're bad. And this is dump because people live in phases. And because there is no morality in sex. Morality in sex was invented to limit women, to oppress women. Who put my morality and my goodness in or on my vagina? Just be a good person, try to help people, be kind, be there for your friends. That's enough.
I'm pretty sure "morality" in sex was desired to prevent men from raising children that weren't his.
@@Chris-rg6nm Well yeah, that was the original function of patriarchy, to ensure a man's bloodline continues and inherits his property. Much of what is considered culturally "feminine" came about because of limited female mobility; Women receive protection from other men, cloistered inside homes, palaces, and city walls, and men receive sexual exclusivity at home.
I can't stand double standards from man and I don't think any lady has to live with the hypocrisy of many gentleman. Man think they're entitled to ask for certain standards in woman they don't even want to meet. Disgusting
@@marte1376 What double standard is that?
@@Chris-rg6nm body count is one many examples. Man wanting "virtue" but chasing after temptations and lust, etc. Those are double standards, I don't care if you agree or not, those are things that happen in the 3d world and woman have to deal with them
"Good characters" in general are seen as bland. Again most of these issues IMO are traced back to the audiences beliefs and personal taste. And writers writing what they think will have broad appeal.
@password 12 basically, audiences like to blame writers, and they do deserve some of the blame. But a lot of issues go back to fandoms and general audiences who aren't monolithic, to begin with.
@@blackdragon6 Yeah and sometimes it's not the writers fault, it could be the Studio's fault.
@@kittykittybangbang9367 that's true too.
Quote of the Day: “I’m a twisted, witchy, creative, horny woman.”
I would love to see the good- weird girl trope.
Some are way Worse than this,
but some Authors are Way Better.
Just think of the Last Airbdender Cartoon; those makers were surely not sexist, aye.
"Clara isn't just a bad girl, she's a serial-arsonist."
Some are way Worse than this,
but some Authors are Way Better.
Just think of the Last Airbdender Cartoon; those makers were surely not sexist, aye.
@@loturzelrestaurant what??
Honestly I don’t think Tessa specially in the books was a good girl, she was certainly naive and inexperienced but quite misogynistic towards most women she interacted with. She gave that “I’m not like the other girls” type of vibe
I'd also like to say that living the "good girl" life does not mean that you have a boring one, or that you're hiding your true self by not giving in to all the sexual or dark desires that comes across your way.
I didn’t know how much I needed this video. It has inspired me to finally embrace myself after spending several years looking for ways to stop being the “good girl” (because it made me feel ashamed of myself).
The bottom line is, as women we should always aspire to never put ourselves in boxes or play by a "stereotype" even if it is socially rewarding (only for a little while) women are full well rounded, complex individuals. Always be your true authentic self and try to embrace all the facets of your being, because we never have just one.
Good girls are great pure heart kind souls
Women shouldn’t be ashamed to be good
You don’t have to be naughty to be interesting
thank you
I feel like someone finally talked about something that is never talked, thank you very much! You made me feel heard.
I have been waiting for this trope to be covered! Throughout my childhood, I worshipped Hilary Duff, Selena Gomez, Ashley Tisdale, the character Gabriella Montez, and so many others because I identified with these ‘good girls.’ Many of these girls never had a ‘gone bad’ moment, they just matured and evolved into complex adults while still maintaining their goodness. No shade to the girls who did, but overall I blame the media for creating this narrative that good girls MUST be changed by the end of the show/movie. Not all of us want that for ourselves. My favourite ‘good girls’ stayed true and still inspire me today in my 20s.
This video was great but I wish y’all included Manny from Degrassi and her transformation from “cute good girl” to “sexy bad girl” but explored how smart and fully fleshed out she was. Also, Degrassi character analysis vids would be awesome 😭!! Thanks for another great video!!
I think one of the consequences of these characters produced by the male gaze is that they send the message to men that they can sleep around with whoever they want but, the only woman who's really worthy is the one who doesn't do the same, the one made of "wife material". So they would look down on sexually active women and they would not give an opportunity to any of them to be something else than just one of the "bad girls" they are having fun with, until they find the one, the virgin.
It has to do a lot with slut-shaming, as well
Good men - speaking as a decent guy - DO NOT resent women being sexual and sensual beings eho are empowered. They actually find it very attractive and alluring. We don't shame or bully promiscuous women... or men... but highly sexual/sexual and highly promiscuous/promiscuous are not the same thing. Promiscuity is extremely destructive for both men and women. Any moral or decent guy feels sorry for promiscuous people. Anglo societies are screwed for this stuff, somuch bigotry and hatred between men and women. In my experience Anglosphere (UK, Australia, NZ, Canada, USA) men and women are immature and toxic compared to Europeans. Everything is about your "role". In Europe it is more common to see each other as a HUMAN BEING first. In Anglo countrues you're just your roles: race, gender, age, sexuality etc. This is all used by the elites to promote social division, conflict and misery. I've never met such cruel, harsh, judgemental mean and ignorant men AND women as in Anglo countries. Love and consciousness is the solution, not fingerpointing and more conflict. But in the meantime I feel deep empathy for good Anglosphere women surrounded by tonnes of toxic emotionally retarded manchildren. Emigration can fix most of these problems
And? Men don’t want promiscuous women.
OMG!!! I feel like this perfectly talks about Persephone from “Lore Olympus” (webcomic). Especially around 1:21, when the video discusses about her “seemingly perfect facade is masking her darker struggles.” That just hit the nail. Like ommph!
Thank you for this. I've always felt like the pendulum swung waaay too far in the other direction of women's liberation in media. For a while it felt like, if a woman isn't hyper-sexual or flirtatious, she ceased to be a woman. It was an over-reactive method of rebelling against the older ideals and made an impression on my generation. I was often shamed for being a virgin, called a prude, and everyone thought I should "sleep around to know what I really want." But that didn't feel genuine to myself. It hurt to see this message in media bombarding me from a young age that sex was everything. I appreciate your coverage of this as a positive, because we shouldn't be shamed or labeled as "repressed" for not wanting to engage in sexual activity upon the introduction of another's desire to possess us.
I used to be The Good Girl when I was in Primary and High school but then I grew up. I hit college, my life kind of fell apart after my parents split, found out I was neurodivergent and realised I was lesbian. my "Good Girl" phase was just me trying to be the perfect child for my family because society told me to be a certain way. It wasn't me being the genuine good girl. It was people pleasing that came from insecurity.
Bruh this coment feels like my life,I wasn't a good girl I was terrified
i've been this girl in real life and i've always felt like i lacked something. like i can't have as much fun cause i need more than an fboy. like it's harder for me to be happy cause the quality of a relationship i need to be satisfied is quite high. i even tried that kind of a 'casual' relationship but i'm a deep sea fish and the closer i get to the surface the more difficult it is to survive. i feel like there's no cure and way out
The important part here is, that most of these characters were created by men. Writers have to simplify characters yes, but I think young men especially often only see their love interests and women in general in a limited number of roles. Because the true complexity of being female often happens behind closed doors or in female only spaces. It is the same in reverse, except women weren't present in writers rooms for a long time. Let us all not fit into any molds and create characters that reflect reality.
There’s no wrong in doing good and being proud of it. There’s no wrong on wanting good grades or staying a virgins. There’s no wrong on not dating. You can be good and have fun in your own way. You can be good and not have an existential crisis, if you know who you are. You don’t have to rebel because people think your too good, you don’t have to judge people for not being good like you. You live your own live, can help people but let them live.
I've always been the "good girl," but not the ignorant, naïve, weak version the media portrays. I'm assertive but I mind my own business. I'm confident yet humble. I'm introverted by have many friends and am polite to friendly. I'm living my life, a virgin, a creative, happy.
The world will simply have to deal.
This channel continues the incredible skill of finding patterns in media amongst things that are superficially different
I’ve always tried to escape the “good-perfect girl” stereotype. I was like the “goodest” person throughout my childhood, then as a teenager, young adult I tried to be rebellious. Drank, smoked, partied, etc. Then I got tattoos and piercings done. However, and now as a 40 year-old-woman, I have finally learned to embrace the fact that I just can’t help being a “good woman”, it’s just the way I am, and always have been. I tried hard to be the bad girl but my good side always came up. The problem is that I’ve been taken advantage of way too many times, and that infuriates me.
I've been a "good girl" my whole entire life and now, (especially after recently leaving a religion that has a lot of rules about the way you act and look, and preaches that you need to be obedient to the letter) it's so weird to be navigating this "bad girl" space. I'm tired of being condescended upon for being a good girl and yet the "bad girl" persona we see in the media is looked down on too. I wish there was more gray area in between the way we view women.
So far this has been my favorite video of yours, I now understand I can be multifaceted and still be true to myself, it was so tiring trying to fit into one mold one in reality I like lots of things, great job
I love this video! I too struggle with this false dichotomy. It’s getting easier now, but it was a struggle in high school
As someone who was raised to be a "good girl" (conservative country, Catholic school, strict parents) but who just doesn't fit the mold of either "good" or "bad" (because who does!!), I loved watching this video.
But *gags* what Daphne did to Simon was so messed up :((
Thank you for posting this! As a 32 year-old gay man, I resonate powerfully with the good girl/bad girl dichotomy. I've struggled so much with my sexuality my entire life, feeling like if I gave into my desires, I would tarnish my good boy image. I always have seen myself as the innocent and pure guy, someone who very rarely drinks, never cusses, good to others, child at heart, avoids conflict, and yet also mature and grounded. I am proud of who I am to the core, but I also struggle to integrate being a sexual being with my pure image without feeling like I have to embody two extremes. Anyways, I am still in the process of telling myself that I can still be the "innocent and pure" guy while being a sexual person and I am a good person still for doing so :)
There is nothing inherently good or bad about sex, it doesnt make you a good or bad person, just a person. What makes you a good or bad person is how you treat people and their feelings. I hope you make that distinction and do what feels right for you to find your balance and happiness :).. remember do what makes you happy and doesnt hurt others.. be you..
I feel a little off associating the good girl that reforms the bad guy. I ve seen a post about this on Tumblr where a girl made it clear that women are not professional therapist to these men and shouldnt promote the idea that the troubled or problematic man needs a nice girl the right girl to change him and make him a better man. I feel it plays into that and I think we shouldn't use that argument as a strength of the nice girl. I also have heard the point from many girls that they can change him if given the chance when chances are it could backfire and be the other way around.
When you’re a “good girl” people may try to corrupt you and assume you’re naive / easy to manipulate. Some evil people take it as a challenge and get enjoyment out of defiling your innocence. Being innocent is framed by our sexually liberated society as juvenile and immature, which makes it all worse.
You look like a bad girl.
Am a so called good girl but I had enough of people thinking I would be ok with everything.
Why do have to be nice when I don't want to and feel guilty when I don't.
My sister is a troublemaker but everyone notices her and love's her for all her flaws but when I say am tried of people pushing or asking to much of me, am a bad person.
I don't want to be invisible, I guess I want attention but that because people only ever know me as the good,nice, sweet, innocent and naive girl which I am not.
I want to fight ( I can't fight for sh*t)
I want to smoke ( hate cigarette so no)
Damm i want my feelings to be important to.
you'll need boundries and youll need to learnt he difference between nice and kind
yes people will come down on you hard for asserting yourself, its a form of emotional blackmail, its a shock to them too. it wont suit them for you to change into a healthier version of yourself
no one else is going to respect n stand up for you if you wont find the energy to do it for yourself
it is only exhausting because you have no practice at it and you care too much about the outcomes
dont smoke, its a form of self abuse that youll later regret
your feelings ARE important, but clearly you are around those who dont atm respect your feelings, because theyve been able to get away without it for so long.
I suggest therapy ASAP, or finding youtube therapist channels which resonate, such as crappy childhood fairy who addresses such topics
It maybe that ur surrounded by narcisstic personalities, even if not, youll gain much insight from learning about such
i speak as one who kept shutting up and putting up until i ended up accumulating so much internal stress i developed ME/CFS which forced me to learn to say no, protect myself etc
people WILL take advantage if you give them that opening. it shouldnt be like that, but it is n besides, boundries n self respect are v healthy
It's super weird, especially since IRL I know mousy, nerdy, 'good girls' who are incredibly sexually experienced and more outgoing 'bad girls' who might do drugs or have other risky behavior but are virgins into adulthood.
While it's not as common now, there was a just as condescending 'bad girl goes good' arc, but it was more about 'finally taming that independent shrew into becoming a good mother and housewife'.
That’s because people aren’t stereotypes.
@@meishuu that was my point, yes
I think about this living in Japan. Japanese women are seen as virginal and "clean" by default based on how they act and speak, but reality tells a very different story, based on countless things seen and heard and society in general. A LOT of pre-marital sexing and pre-/post-marital cheating goes on here. But me, walking around as a black woman, am instantly seen as promiscuous and am approached as such even though I'm, in fact, a virgin. Put a picture of me next to the picture of an experienced young Japanese woman and ask someone who they think is the virgin and they'd never pick my picture.
This world is really weird.
I never had a celebrity or boy band crush when I was in my teens, I also had only one crush in high school but nothing came from it. People get a weird shock expression on when I told them I’m a virgin. I had one guy at a work place sexually harassing me constantly, especially when he found out I was a virgin, by telling me to watch porn or look at lewd images. He one time said dress more “feminine” at work, and get this he told me I was like a colouring book that doesn’t have any “colour”. He probably thought I was docile enough not to tell the office, boy was he wrong 😂. He got fired from my workplace after I listed all the things he said to me.
this such a great, well-articulated essay on the "good girl" trope. thank you, The Take, all of this needed to be said!
Well done! This was so therapeutic as someone who struggled with the good girl label for most of my life.
Haha your description of the good girl- homebody, hands out with family loved arts & crafts and womanly activities, is so me except I dress like a vixen.
I watched a movie called "Jab We Met" over 30 times. Geet was a good girl but rebellious, blunt and always got herself into trouble. In the movie, on her way to her home, she befriends Aditya (the good guy) and unknowingly saves him from commiting suicide. With her non-stop talking, she also irritates him and gets yelled at by him. However, when she misses her train, Aditya saves her and both get closer. Geet was in love with Anshuman and runs away from home. But the guy rejects her and she slips into depression.
What I liked about Geet's characterization is that she was transparent and outspoken. She was both wise and innocent but never let anyone take advantage of her kindness. When she was depressed, she was supported by Aditya. They both fall in love. The other guy, she was previously in love with, returns and proposes to her. But, this time Geet rejects him and marries Aditya.
In the movie both the good characters are treated properly. Geet does not abandon Aditya because Anshuman returns and realizes his mistake. She does not let that feeling of "rejection and acceptance" manipulate her decision. She does not forget how she was treated. She does not treat Aditya as the second guy but returns his feelings and acts on it.
For Aditya, he treated Geet with respect and does not take advantage of her vulnerability. He understands her impulsiveness, reasons with her and when she does not listen to him. He helps her reach to her boyfriend in a safer way. He does not expect her to reciprocate or think about his feelings. He, too changes, from a gloomy and stiff guy to happier man. He understands the mechanisms of love. However, throughout the story he remains the good guy.
Over the years, Aditya's character has become a heartthrob amongst women. Whenever, a woman is asked about her ideal man, she always answers- Aditya from Jab We Met. It's been 16 years but both Aditya and Geet have remained iconic characters. 😊
I have a personal gripe with the good girl...
In real life I am often placed in this role by others even though I have much more nuance and am multifaceted because I choose to be "pure". I have a more innocent look or demeanor and Because I'm not promiscuous, I'm observed as a prude or even had a friend say I might be asexual (definitely not!). Because I choose to be kind, empathetic, and feminine. Because I don't believe people are inherently bad and can tell the difference.
I feel when people create this image of me it overshadows my true self or any flaws I might have to the point where opening up means "defying" the perception they made up on their own. I can tell how people look up to me this way yet are confused when I fall short of their view.
Nobody can truly be placed in a box this way, it's inaccurate. Most people have "both" and they aren't as dual as people make it seem.
In truth, I have my own darkness and "demons" but just keep it to myself and try not to let it affect the way I treat others. Yet, somehow others can't see that in me and it has made for some very limiting relationships where I often feel used yet not really seen or validated.
People also often look up to me to save them or "influence them positively" because I'm empathetic and perceived as good, but the truth is I struggle to save myself and there is nobody who really sees that.
I get what you’re saying but I hope you learn that our dark side (shadow side) isn’t inherently always bad. I can embody different elements of good and bad through different traits but it’s important to know it isn’t your responsibility to change people’s perception of you. This is something I grapple with but I know I can get away with somewhat because I look tall
I've never felt more seen by a comment.
@@cess8861 same!
Sorry but this problem seem very imaginary. Why would being a good person limit your relationships? Most good people have lots of friends maybe you need to stop being lazy and get over it.
@@ritaevergreen7234 Thank you. I have learned that, and it is wonderful to have you understand it and remind me.
Can't believe no one thought to mention *pulls mic outta nowhere* 🎶 "GOOD GIRLS ARE BAD GIRLS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN CAUGHT" 🎶
I was the “good girl” most of my life and I have to say it’s really hard to break away from that because people expect good girl behaviour from you all your life. When you want to change it’s like people don’t let you, they want you to stay in that box
A great essay video as always! I just would like to point out that Taylor's reputation album era was more of a persona of bad-ass girl dealing with her critics, rather than bad-sexy girl. That's why she's back to lovey dovey in her Lover album era.
The videos I've watched so far about 'The Something-something Girl Trope' have always ended on a positive note, wow, thank you for that.
I've always been the good girl, and I've always thought, 'Oh no, am I one day going to be bad? Am I suppressing anything? Am I going to change? Am I *supposed* to change?' But now I realize, there's not much I am suppressing, sure I need to learn how to better express my anger, conflicting opinions, darker feelings or desires, but yeah I don't want to change really. Sometimes I have times where I just wanna be 'dangerous' (meaning I just listen to Good-Girl-Gone-Bad-like music and lose myself in it😂) but then I always come back to the 'good girl' persona I have. I realize it's okay to have all these other sides to me, I don't have to pick one or the other, I can be all of them. Also, I won't change, I'll just grow and expand all the characteristics I can have. Wow. Just wow.
And just to add, someone who's taught me that you don't have to change from being a good girl is a K-pop girl group called Twice. In K-pop there's concepts and at a certain time, groups switch from their bright, cute, innocent or schoolgirl/schoolboy concept to a more mature one, mature isn't just sexy but also darker concepts and many others really. (Basically, that's what I've seen) But Twice never really abandoned their cute, bright, bubbly concept for a mature one, they evolved into that mature concept while still retaining their image of Twice. Like I don't know how to explain it but yes, they've shown me they can do both and not lose their essence and sound. So I too do not have to change, I can adopt more mature feelings or thoughts but still retain my 'goodness'. Yeah.
I love that you're also including songs.
As Hilary Duff's song "I am" said: "I'm an angel, I'm a devil, I am sometimes in between I'm as bad as it can get and good as it can be". We are just struggling with life like everyone. I always strived to be the good girl, the one that stayed out of trouble and made her parents proud. Life taught me I could be a good girl and still make bad choices and mistakes and that is ok because I'm a human and learning like everybody else, that trouble is part of life and that just being myself is something I can be proud of
The most memorable woman I ever met was a schoolteacher. During the day and the weekdays you would say she looked like a nice looking schoolteacher which she was, but come Friday evening and the weekend the single most X-rated woman I had ever met. Both versions of her were authentic and I enjoyed and respected them both. You have no idea what that nerdy chick might be like behind closed doors. My father taught us that most people live on the inside not the outside. Can't judge a book by its cover. You have open it up.
One of your best videos yet! Well done. I'm so glad you included Nancy from Stranger Things -- she has one of my favorite (and one of the most wholesome) character arcs in recent tv, in my opinion.
Not directly related, but as a Christian, I've gotten a lot of flack from people for: not getting drunk (I drink socially and in moderation), not doing drugs or smoking, and especially saving sex for marriage.
Same.
First!
I feel like my life is this Trope. Thank you for addressing it.
Are you friends with a bad girl? I feel like the trope is always best friends with the bad girl
@@Missmagazinebura I am friends with a bad girl and I am a 100% good girl.I wanna be a doctor but I also want to be a caring wife and mom.
nahh you're a person, not a character, please don't forget that
I would be classified as the "good girl" along with the "tom-boy" archetype. But no I'm not a door mat and I don't know act as an opposition to the "hot" or "mean girl". No I'm not provocative but I'm not modest either; I can be both, I can be duel. Why can't society see us a duel!
Cause you shall be seen as whole, always. You're the sum of your own individual mixture from all sorts of boxes and "outside of the box". :3 You should be seen as you, a human. And it takes more work and social skillset to do so, so ppl still struggle with that concept. It's OK! We'll all get used to it eventually ;D
@@KxNOxUTA Gestalt said it best 😤😂. “The whole is just the sum of its parts.”