Surely you're not the same LazyPeon as one I met with some friends on WoW Classic some months ago, maybe even a year ago, no? Playing on OCE servers. That LazyPeon wanted to join our guild which was 'LazyPeons' or something lol
@@JonesCrimson they must be giving very good deals to game developers for them to own so many things. They are also known to not interfere and give full controls to devs. If anything, tencent is better than EA and a lot of other western companies.
The CPC is fucked, and Tencent pushes their agendga aggressively and at cost to players and their personal information. They don't deserve your money, perhaps the only company in the industry worse than EA.
"Me and my wife´s boyfriend have been learning Unity and C for like, i dunno, 4 weeks, and we want to make the biggest and most complex MMO ever made!!! we just need a few million dollars and your support ;D" -most crowdfunded mmos...
@Seventh Taco its probably people who have worked as game devs their entire lives and didnt understand why they couldnt just add something to a game, it just takes time right? Why dont they make a game with everything awesome in it? So they go and make their own game company and realize there is a lot more on the business side of game development, then the developing games part. Its simply game devs who are passionate about making an amazing game but just simply dont comprehend how to run a business.
The red flags on these projects for me is always when they start selling in-game progress, like land or items or spaceships or title or whatever even before the world in which this progress is supposed to exist is accessible whatsoever. Both because it's a pay to win sellout and the idea of paying money to skip non-existing gameplay to gain not yet accessible nonexisting rewards is ridicolous to me.
I bought this game Landmark before it was realeased and played it very very little before the actual release thanks to my founders pack access. Then I forgot about the game and came back to it in 2018....(Landmark was released in June 2016, and was playable until the servers were shut down in February 2017). Taught me to never buy a game that was not yet released.
Honestly this extends past games to kickstarter, indiegogo, gofundme all of which have more failures than successes if you think about it. Although there are some examples of games that succeed from these methods, there are tons more that fail and shutdown. For me, these sites = scam 100%
@@predat11 to call it ALL a scam is pretty cynical. The majority of these projects fail naturally, not out of malice. Usually just hopeful dreamers vastly misjudging the realities of game development. And honestly, this is why open-window game development is a bad thing, and why AAA studios keep their mouth shut about their games. Game projects fail CONSTANTLY, AAA and indie projects alike. It's a reality of the medium. Crowdfunding just makes the masses blatantly aware of that fact.
when mmorpgs go back to social aspects, instead of having a lot of people playing solo with little to no interaction... yeah then we will have MMOs back in business.
I'm not even playing MMOs anymore. I have accepted that what they have become is nothing like the games I fell in love with ~16 years ago. I'm an outsider now, and every now and then I visit an MMO website (or a youtube channel like this one) to look around and estimate the state of the genre, and I always come to the conclusion that nothing has changed.
As someone who has done backend game engine work when I seen this I was like this looks cool. Then seen asking for 900k and 2 years. Was like not going to happen, not even in a huge AAA developer can they pull this off.
i didnt donate a penny to this project, and im disgusted. those salaries are ridiculous. if i was one of those ppl who donated money i would feel so used, and abused
@@jtthomas744 2020 people still believe in that "karma" will get them. no one will get them. they have the money, and will have a happy life from now on. karma does nothing, WE must do something. go there and scalp them for example.
I swear, throw them in prison, charge them with theft, because the damage doesn't end here, no one is ever gonna crowdfund another game at this desired level, even if some games would have had a high chance of being loved, now, they won't, because people are growing more skeptical thanks to this joke of a team.
Wasted, just like the braincells of the backers....FUCK you guys are stupid...im at a loss for words how these backers can keep throwing money at shit liie this....amazing
I remember when it was first announced, I was in one of their discord following their development. One time, a few group of people bought out some constructive criticism about the game on discord, the developer got mad and just blocked all of them and refuse to go on discord again. I stopped following the game after that.
Indie Dev: Hey, we need a suspiciously low amount of money to make a ridiculously complex game that will have systems in place that not even AAA developers are capable of implementing. All the while, boasting gorgeous life-like visuals that would require a massive studio to be able to efficiently build, while maintaining stable performance. Also, we're a 5 person team of inexperienced devs with no pre-developer track history, and we're totally going to be finished and able to release the game in a year and a half. Gamers, sitting in their gaming chairs, gnawing on crayons, and drooling on their shirts: Here's $100 dollards. PSA: If an early access/crowd funding game sounds too good to be true, plot twist, it is.
LOL and showing only tech demos. Some studios did that years ago(looking at you blizzard for Warcraft online). I didn't know their was a mmo-S market and never heard of the game. some of photage looks like it's from skyrim. and others a tech demo. No idea where from though.
in life... those that promise the world, and are quick to make any sort of big promises, these are literally the people you cannot trust. But a person who hesitates to make any sort of promise or commitment, them you can trust.
Thank you for thr video. The aftermath of this project has been so sad to watch. People that talked for years together got silenced on the game's Discord page because Caspian got upset. Devs and moderators were opening fighting over how things ended. The entire thing has been a massive let down and to be honest, has contributed to my own lessened opinion of Mmos as a genre. It sucks that there will always be Caspian's out there. On the bright side, we did get a new insult out of the ordeal. Stay well and don't be a Caspian!
Lmao they sent out an email to everyone today saying they're going to try to continue development. Aka they feel like they could steal more money so they're going to try
The problem is you really can't get sued. because you never know IF this game would even be able to work out with the funds that you get. and it's impossible to refund people if you already spend the money. So if someone tried to create a game and it just didn't work out. then o well at least they tried.
I was initially thinking to myself "is it really a scam though, or just a failed project that possibly ruined these devs' careers?"...but then it got to the part where the guy was selling ingame stuff for a ridiculous amount of real money when the project was already dead, and yeah.
I was thinking the same thing, wondering how TLP could call it a scam so confidently right up until the land sellings followed by game shut down. The lead guy taking a salary of 200k a year was another huge snarf to me.
I mean look at star citizen. It's still in alpha, and selling ships for thousands of dollars. Somehow they get away with it though, even though it's not even close being complete.
KSP2 used coronavirus as a reason to postpone the release from "2020" to "fall 2021" Really doubt the virus had much to do with it, just sounds like they weren't ready
I'm going to start a kickstarter. It's going to be the greatest elephant MMORPG. You can make elephant babies, customise your trunk with a million options, migrate across a massive Savannah and build your own elephant houses... yeah really.
Do it, I bet millions of brain dead neck beards will donate. Dumbasses never learn, ever. The same pieces of sub human garbage that actually fell for this scam would make the same mistake in a heart beat - because they are fucking worthless morons. Kudos to the scammer guy because he knows the masses are so astoundingly stupid they will pay for anything and everything
"what chronicles of elyria has just doesn't exist in gaming" I mean, shadowbane had most of those features in like 2003 or whatever. all the kingdoms, merchants, shops, cities, towns, houses, etc. were all player owned (and it was a fucking nightmare, you'd play this game all day everyday, no life that shit, and then wake up one morning and your rank 2 nation, that actually has the largest population of any nation because it has the most and largest cities, had all it's cities sacked in the middle of the night by some dudes who built their kingdom in the freaking islands near the northern pole. also, it kinda sounds like mmo bannerlord with free running, ya kno
sounds like GW2 at launch. players were quitting in droves because in WvW, all the work your guild did capturing nodes was completely erased when you woke up in the morning, as no one was awake to defend your shit. first days of GW2 pvp were massive battles, then within a couple week barely anyone was left in WvW lol.
Thats why the same group of people from shadowbane can pull off a new MMO - crowfall, I backed CF when they start the crowdfunding. the CF team is constantly posting tech problem they were facing in the development and so many SB players with tech background made good conversation with them.
@@zamorak666avesatanas8 ikr im still sad since when i actually cared to play i could barely find anyone online in any game mode accept for gardens and graveyards which dont get me wrong is fun but im more of a deathmatch and free for all type of guy
"A world created by the players" that will never exisit. Period. Even if we had the technology to actually do that. Communities in videogames can go from very enjoyable and helping people to a bunch of the worst annoying assholes on the planet, but in any of those cases players can't actually create a playable world. People may create castles, cities or even reigns, but that would never be permanent place on the game's world. Guilds tend to abandon the game for long periods of time, players tend to leave their projects unfinished for many reasons (and all of them reasonable), and the few guilds and players that can actually do that will do it to create a powerfull PvP base from where launch attacks and predate over other player's territories. In the end, something like Elyria was proposing will become a clusterfuck of epic proportions.
@@pillarmenn1936 Indeed it is, and the largest alliance is led by a player who doesn't even play the game. He has many castles, planets and tens of thousands of players ready to turn their ignition key and ride to huge battles at his command.
I don't remember ever hearing about it, but I totally understand. That description sounds amazing, but doable. I really hate people who do this kind of thing.
Valheim actually comes far closer to what was promised with this 'game'. And it was made by a small team relatively quickly. And is still being developed. Sure, its not massively multiplayer - but its a damn sight better then whatever this abomination is.
I _vaguely_ remember this. I lost my lungs at the: "Oops, outta money! All 7.9 million." That seems an awful lot to piddle away regardless of the project at hand!
Its actually a total of about 9.5 million in total throughout everything. the 8 million was just through their website alone. then about 900k on kickstarter, then the initial 500k Jeremy Walsh "claims" to have invested with friends and family.
Pure fraud and negligence IMO. This is a white collar crime and should be treated as such. I hope that they don't get away with these criminal actions.
That's a drop in the bucket for MMOs. Even basic themepark MMOs that you can flip assets on. Having a completely player controlled world was never even close to the realm of possible. High end MMOs can burn through $300 million with half the features they listed.
I love the highlighting section in the end. A lot of these games deserve more credit than they get :). That being said, Wolcen has massive issues besides Bugs. I was originally not bothered too much by the bugs, exploits and crashes. I played Singleplayer so most of these were fixable / didn't affect me too much. Now even with all of these gone, Wolcen has really big problems that come down to game design. I originally really thought of it as having great build diversity, however it effectively doesn't have any. You get too many skill-points and most damage scaling is meaningless (it's all additive ... yes ... all of it) meaning every build pretty much took the few nodes on the tree that actually multiplied your damage. Since you already get like 800% increased damage from your attributes alone (horrible system btw), 15% increased damage is ridiculously pointless. This also applies to "negative" modifiers, which often offer incredibly powerful advantages for a neglible loss in damage. You''d basically take them all. So even if they fix everything wrong with Wolcen from a technical side, I very much doubt it will have engaging and actually thought through gameplay systems for a long time. All of the above is simple mathematics used in basically any ARPG to develop your own character. Wolcen essentially gets the most basic thing about character building and scaling wrong. As Quin said it ... the seed might be rotten.
@@SirKakalaCh I know of Titan Quest but since I already didn't like the class system in GD very much (which is originally from Titan Quest), I never considered giving it a serious shot. Though I'd still highly recommend GD to anyone. Great ARPG. I'm a long time PoE Player and Supporter and it fits exactly what I need for an ARPG. Namely the best character customization in any game I've ever played :). Thank you for the suggestion though! I might check it out once Delirium enters its third month.
@@theStamax I kinda like Titan Quest more than GD, GD looks really muddy. As for Wolcen, quite true. Didn't help that many of the nodes didn't even work(though some probably felt like they don't work due to what you mentioned above). End game content was kind of a joke too. I enjoyed the campaign a fair bit, surprisingly. Was actually curious where the story will go. So that's 1 good point on it for me. It was entertaining. I know many don't play arpgs like that for the story. Who knows, if they put their heads down it might improve greatly in a year or two. Or maybe not.
@@HiddenStr3ngth Yeah Wolcen is really up in the air right now. If they redesign fundamental character customization then it might be really good. And fix uniques in the process please^^
When I watch this video and read this comments I'm honestly dumbfounded at how much slack people give this. People talk as if there was a game in development but the funders were let down. Hell, it's blatantly obvious that this was a pure and simple scam. I can tell that there never was a real game in development, this whole thing was orchestrated from the beginning to con people out of their money. Hell, this guy could propably get a hefty bit of time in the jail, or at least a massive fine. I must say, he did a fine job exploiting the weaknesses of kickstarters/crowdfunding, especially in combination with the games industry.
@@swishfish8858 Let's see. Making fake gameplay trailers, and after that a demo that looks like a shitty, rushed mobile game, and not even slightly remeniscent of those fake gameplay clips. Asking for a ridiculously small amount of money for the game, then when people actualy give that much, asking more, and even after that taking a fat salary off of your measly budget for yourself. Taking in money and just mere weeks later announching that the game is dead. You have to be in serious denial or immensly naive to actuay believe they were planning on releasing anything in the mids of that cash-grabbing chaos.
Video Game industry is fucking up all other industries. Nothing can compete with the production rate of a computer that churns out digital data at the speed of light. Slap a price on that, and we've just sold out our entire planet, 1 z-buck at a time. Who will feed the devs when farming is an industry looked down upon in favour of digital commerce?
Makes me angry. That $7M had it been invested in something like Dungeons and Dragons Online, would have been used wisely and benefited the gaming community within. Scammers like this guy whatsisface gives a blackeye to crowdfunding as a whole, not just MMOs.
Star Citizen is a great example of people's propensity to buy into a dream rather than a fully realized idea. I can't wait for the game to release, but the game isn't getting a dollar from me until I know they can deliver. I felt the same way with Elite Dangerous until they announced the ability to finally walk around stations and ships, so that'll be fun.
@@stockloc I got Elite Dangerous and it's one of the most depressing under realized games ever. The devs basically have a game that would allow them to print money but they are too lazy. Star Citizen might never be released sadly but I hope they do. As a concept it looks amazing but for what I heard they are years and years away from something decent.
No-one in their right mind when starting a business puts themselves on a 200k+ annual salary. That alone is a huge, huge red flag to not fund it, but also to keep clear of any work involving someone like that for the rest of your life lol. What a rank, pitiful amateur lol.
Kingdom Come Deliverance was a kickstarted game at one point. I can't recall what the portion was. I think it was mainly to prove interest so someone else would back them but kickstarted none the less. Great game!
@@GalliadII oh ok, that's interesting. I wasn't aware that the game wasn't fully complete on release. I did contribute to the Kickstarter and got my copy but I didn't realise that the game wasn't complete as I only played it for about 15 hours which is not really enough to get anywhere in the game really.
Yeah they kickstarted to raise enough funds to show investors the interest in their product from the community. Some billionaire actually made KCD possible
The difference is, of course, that Warhorse Studios is made up of veteran game programmers from companies like 2k Czech (Mafia/Mafia 2), Bohemia Interactive (Arma series, which was the engine used for DayZ standalone). When tried and true developers set up a crowd funding, it's a safe investment. Otherwise, it's a gamble.
@Mr. Al So i guess there is nothing else than capitalism or communism. :P i believe if we didnt have capitalism the games would be made to be enjoyable and not money grabber.
I guess it really depends on when the scamming started, law supposedly protects you from a scam product if it was a product without any progress, on the other hand a person can't be arrested for being stupid, so if the company went bankrupt for bad management there's not much that can be done.
@@findrst3295 if products are enjoyable, you buy them. if they are enjoyable, you recommend them. if people buy them and recommend them, you make a shit ton of money. looks like you didn't think this comment through or did you?
Hey, great video, Peon! Thank you so much for taking the time to try to show people not all crowdfunded games are a scam and giving some very sound advice on how to keep an eye out for those shady projects... As a game developer myself, it's nice to see people like you pushing to make a positive change!
It is a good video on the situation of Chronicles, but I absolutely loved the ending when you quickly review lots of good projects and released titles. Awesome job, Peon!
DOS 2 was on Kickstarter and it’s the game that allowed Larian to make Baldurs Gate 3, that’s all you need to know to keep supporting crowd funded games
I decided to stop crowdfunding MMOs years ago. This was however one of the few I did support. It makes me sad because I love most of the ideas, especially the aging and descendants
wizardseven same, I was really hyped once they announced it. But let’s see what happens, as the official news is that is has been suspended not canceled. Although everything points out that the development is cancelled. It’s truly something sad but it’s something that does not really surprise me
There's actually a discord with about 700+ people who backed the game that are currently working on doing so, only issue is Covid-19 may delay any real action being done for a little while :/
When I first stumbled across this a few years back, I looked into this potential game in quite a lot of detail. It screamed scam from day 1 but I was almost convinced by the fact is had been registered as a kickstarter project. I emailed the COE development team to say I didn't want to purchase anything in advance but offered my own services in assistance. They were only interested in one thing - getting my money. The whole thing again cried out as a scam. Individuals spend thousands of pounds (which the majority will not get back as the assets held by the development company are intangible and thus have no value now the project is ended and the assets impaired) These people were completely mislead by the team. Kickstarter needs a complete overhaul. The money should be held as an independent fund, accruing in balance and only become available to the company upon delivery. If it was held in a fund, the development team could have then used this to negotiate loans with lenders or equity agreements with investors. Should the project not raise finance elsewhere, then the project is not viable and the funds should be returned to the kickstarter individual investors. Similarly, in the case of COE, the funds would have been returned when the project went bust as delivery had not been completed. I wish all the best to the people who have been completely screwed over. Whilst you chase possible litigation, dont forget to rally against kickstarter for changes to policy and protection for individuals.
Kickstarter isn't a game investment site...you are litterally offered nothing more than being delivered a game..with 0 backing. And you own 0 of the company making the game.
@@asambi69 I do appreciate that - and you are right for some cases. In these cases you mention putting money in is essentially a donation. However most crowdfunding platforms do offer a return on investment. You dont raise 7 million pounds from people without offering then a return. I have since found out that in this case, people were not protected as COE made people purchase packages directly from them - outside of kickstarter. There should be restrictions in place to prevent this, as otherwise all kickstarter becomes in essence is a third party advertising platform to lead people into a unsecure, unprotected payment system.
@Conshe Tumare You don't understand what im saying mate! There is complete logic in it. By building up a fund thats available upon completion, it can be used to support a funding application with a lender, or equity investors. They, having the skills to judge whether a project is actually viable, assess it and decide whether to invest. If they believe the project is going to be completed, they invest and will get the funds upon completion. That way, the kickstarter fund gets used as a persuasive method to lenders/investors who see that it has demand and viability. It almost acts as collateral.
Can't trust what they say, only what they show. And what they "show" is almost always just environmental pans or assets purchased to show the "potential" look of the game later. Until I see online gameplay of these games idgaf anymore.
Luckily Ashes of Creation seems to focus more on the actual coding of the game coming first. They get shit talked for not showing tons of things, but the core things that truly matter to get down are sadly the ones that are not the easiest to show. Like server code and other back end code. They tried apocalypse to allow peoples to help test that code and help improve it, but they just assumed they were wasting effort on BR and were paranoid/misinformed what it was for... They cannot win in this aspect. They even just recently showed a complete raw stream of the mmo and its early state which was very promising for those that understood what point in development they were and what that in tales, but the ignorant masses that fall for flashy stuff like this are bagging on them still... Even though they are showing real progress towards what everyone wants with core systems already in and working except for a few bugs here and there. Idk I just find it fascinating.
"And what they "show" is almost always just environmental pans or assets purchased to show the "potential" look of the game later." That was true of Ashes of Creation, and while they've hit plenty of bumps in the road they certainly have gotten somewhere. There's no hard and fast rule; the only advice is to use your head, use your intuition and uhh... _good luck_ if you decide to crowdfund.
They had alpha gameplay and all (low textures is acceptable for demo), so I understand why some say you did not do your research, but still it was visible that they were not able to pull-off the dream game they wanted... Did the owner consult his employees before closing? *Looks* like a shitty emotional decision after so much work and funding. I am not in his shoes. Anyhow, I also did *not* fund and felt it was going nowhere "fast".
When they started to bring up features that even **I** though was unreasonable to expect from an mmo, and i can be demanding, that's when i knew something was up. Some of the ideas were good. Too bad it turned out to be a load of steaming crap
Hey there I was one of the high backers in the monarch package. The CEO Caspian could have gotten a publisher but he chose to let the project die, having a store promotion only days before he shut it down, without any refunds. It doesn't get much more sleezy than that. Sure it's easy to say all of us backers were gullible and naive, but the industry needs new independent crowdfunded projects with backers to take risks in order to have those new fun games that break from the norm. That being said, I'm done taking risks on crowdfunded. I am one of those people who don't plan on ever backing another crowdfunding. This isn't the first project I've backed, never on this level, but still, my goodwill has run out. Sure some have panned out, some have survived, like albion, but most were disappointments even if they were made. After all these years, it just seems like a crap shoot when it comes to what succeeds, whether they are a big studio or a indie company, doesn't seem to matter. I wish the devs that want to pioneer new roads for mmos well, but I'm done shelling out my money for dreams. I will wait till I see more than snipbits of gameplay. I will not be persuaded by some content updates and flowery promises, no matter how good natured, and good willed, and "open" the devs seem. I will wait until I see an actual game.
Funny thing is, backers are investors in a way, you do the same thing, you give money to something in hope that something comes of it, the only difference is backing something is a donation where you get nothing but (hopefully) what you wanted. The investor gets a return on money (again, hopefully). So I'd say never back something and instead invest, same risk with an actual shot of making money.
@@karambiatos Why not? You can make an investment into a company on grounds of what it does etc for the min price of a single share. Shares are quite often not that expensive, sure you won't make a lot of money but you will make something. If a companys shares are worth say, $12.75, then you can spend that for one single share if you really want to.
When crowdfunding gets legal measures tied to it to prevent scams I'll consider backing something. Until then I remain as I was day 1. I will back not one single project. Not without a legally binding contract.
@@UncleHam1337 Oh, I'm not saying it didn't. I was just kind of amused that whozits up there seemed to take it personally that the original commenter or I hadn't heard of it.
I feel compelled to shout out Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night as an example of crowdfunding done right. The devs responded to criticism of the game's look and retooled the entire thing while still delivering a great (dare I say amazing) game. I wasn't a backer, and I didn't even know it existed until it came out, but it is definitely a success story.
Doesn't matter its such a small % that the good things do not matter there is so much bad the good is pointless to speak about. For every BRN there is 600 Mighty number 9s.
My God, that's disheartening. I caught wind of this game when it was first announced and I was still a minor and only very casually interested in video games and had no idea how unrealistic their ambitions were. I was really into the concept of it though, and subscribed to the free newsletter. I kind of stopped actively following it after a few months and would check in every year or so, and I was honestly still kinda excited for when it would eventually come out, and then I found this video. Oh well, that's that then, I guess. Maybe a more competent team will pick up the concept, take the best parts of it and discard other things that would make it impossible to develop for anybody but AAA developers and do something really cool with it.
Ashes of Creation. - Has a multi millionaire backing it as the boss. - Shows promising visuals here and there, but has focused more on the core of a mmo, the Server code and other back end code. - Has recently shown actual mmo in game progress that proves that many of the core features are in game and working, but just a little buggy until ironed out. - They shoot for big things, but are not afraid to turn down too ambitious of features when brought up/asked/requested. Showing they have a understanding of what they can handle in by launch.
This is the first I've heard of this news and I just wanted to say I'm really happy you decided to end the video on such a positive note. All too much I see people who criticise even the idea of crowdfunded video games. There really is a lot of passionate developers out there who just truly can't make their dream a reality otherwise and failures like this one really do just make it that much harder for the smaller guys to rise up. I was always aware of Chronicles of Elyria but just like you I only followed it casually. Not to try and sound hypocritical to my previous point, one type of game I'm very much paranoid about backing are MMOs in particular. Not simply because I think they're going to be scams but because knowing how much money you must have to pour into project even more-so than any other. I was interested in CoE because of course it sounded ambitious. Far too ambitious. It was something I truly wanted to see the light of day, but being cautious from the get-go I only observed it from a distance to see if that day would ever come. Unfortunately it did not (and I was starting to wonder why I wasn't seeing too many updates from their TH-cam) and this is the price ambition must pay. While I truly believe the devs did WANT to make this game a reality, their lack of transparency was clearly ridden with shade, all whilst trying to still take money from their fans after the game had been "funded". Be upfront about it and who knows? You fans might find ways to get your game even more out there and in the open.
@@crishealingvtuber8626 How it is worse when you have 60 gb worth of alpha that you can play with big updates every 3 months and the other one literally had nothing to show for it lol.
@@Genesys1040 oh idk about this other game, but SC has taken millions for way too little for that money's worth, and also has done DLC's for thousands of dollars.
@@Genesys1040 I got a refund from my sc purchase a year ago, and still no progress to an actual game is here. Where is squadron 42????? Its been so long, they aren't doing anything of value.
@@yetikoalaace7780 Clearly you didn't watch the end of the video. There are plenty of great games that wouldn't exist without crowdfunding. There's obviously an inherent risk involved, so be wary of games promising you the moon. ...coughs in Star Citizen
"Our plan was to attract publishers..." Because in 2016 there were publishers looking to make an MMO centered around roleplaying? You might as well try and sell an electric car design to Haliburton.
Same. I was super excited, but I've been burned by giving money to incomplete game projects before so I always make it a point to only spend money on stuff that *at the very least* has a playable demo/early access version.
5:05 I don't know about you, but I can't wait for that amazing CGI reboot of The Princess Bride. Such realism, such grace, it's really going to bring it into the new millennium.
You do realize Peon has done many questionable things as well, right? He's been in serious trouble for a lot of things. The only thing is, he usually deletes the issue. Like his FFXIV video.. the moment people were seriously mad at him he just deleted the video and any evidence of it existing.
@@xXMetalforever1994Xx Lol are you really going with that idiotic reply? The entire video wasn't just his opinion. He quickly judged the game to be horrible because he did nothing but skip through then understood nothing about the game. He based an entire review on that. He's a reviewer, not just a random opinion online. You're supposed to do your research, give everything an equal fighting chance, etc. He did none of that, and rarely ever does lately. He USED to be good before personal issues started happening.. now he's just absolutely horrible.
i laugh at the poor fools who purchased the ability to start as a king/queen at launch(or any pack at all). if im not mistaken those were 10k packs and sold out
High key yeah "You can do AAAAANYTHING you can age and have kids and it's super realistic and perfect and it's gonna go on forever and be a king or a soldier or" sounds like one of those fake mobile game ads, how do people fall for this
I've been saying to the members of the community on the forums that the game is a scam and they all hated me for doing so. White knighting the scamming Dev's. People need to regain logical thought.
i played with a guy who spent 10k on the game lmaaooo i told him games never gonna be released 2-3 years ago said i didn't know what i was talking about and tried to get me to get it
@@kingkingghgh Yeah i know a couple too, those are coincidentally the same people who dont believe *any* conspiracies, because everyone is telling the truth 100% of the time. Cause if they weren't it'd be in the media right? .... _facepalm_
They should be sentenced to make the game while in jail. They only go free when the game is finished and ready to be released and garners positive reviews. They will also receive none of the game's profits.
No he didnt, he got people to invest in a project which ultimately failed, it is not a scam, it is something that happens everyday, in all walks of life
I'm noticing a new trend growing up in gaming. First we had AAA developers making games that felt incomplete or lacking in various aspects, despite the budget and developer team behind those AAA games, and now we're having the polar opposite from that scenario. Indie developers trying to bite more than what they can chew. They promisse to make a game that's gonna be mindblowing, but in the end, they end up chaing everything and failing to keep their promisses up, essencially lying to their customers, and this is pretty frustrating, because it only hurts developers that are actually interested in developing a game and using Kickstarter to fund their projects. This is exactly why I don't support Kickstarter projects or Early Access games anymore... you can't tell if you'll actually get the game, or if you're going to be scammed.
I agree. I'm sure that a lot of the time, the indie developers really want to make it work, but it just becomes unrealistic at some point. A short game with focus and quality content is much more enjoyable than a game that wants to do 10 things at once, and only manages to implement its ideas haphazardly, if at all.
@@thencrranger5628 No indeed I don't. A friend gifted it to me, otherwise I wouldn't even have it, even though Warband is one of the best games I know of. Bannerlord however is like any other early access, unplayable because it's too far from finished. Bannerlord in particular is in quite a hilarious state right now, because the end of the main story line isn't even in the game yet. It stops progressing at a point where an NPC is trying to remove you from power by making other factions attack you randomly. So it's literally you against the world if you make a faction of your own, which is an impossible fight to win unless you cheat. And that's not even mentioning the broken economy.
@@JohnTheRevelat0r I know a lot of people like DayZ since it got out of early access, and I can't any longer know if it is indeed good or not since I haven't played it since a few months after the 1.0 release. At the 1.0 release however, I still considered it a early access game since it just felt so unfinished still. I don't understand why they even bothered implementing base building, because they are so easy to raid, nobody in their right mind would bother building one. But I suppose DayZ has gotten out of the hopeless situation it has been in for such a long time considering the player base is actually decently large, but at the end of the day I wish I had not bought it back then, maybe not even today. Got to give Bohemia some proper respect though for sticking with the game for so long and trying to fix it.
5:10 Whoa! That set is straight up copied from The Princess Bride! Seriously, search for "Princess Bride - The Sword Fight" here on TH-cam, then pause at 4:04. Lol, that's just... wow.
Lmao, Ashes of Creation is already a certified scam. New World is already selling p2w items to pre-order their "deluxe" edition... so it will probably just be a big cash grab like 90% of them. MMOs are dead... there's a reason Blizzard sold out as well, the cost is way to high to produce and maintain them.
here is the sad sad sad truth. Doubt on any game changing MMORPGs for atleast 3 to 5 decades. I'm sorry but it is the truth. People expect new MMOs to be incredible and rival stuff like WoW and FF14 at launch... They won't. Sure some will blow up but will fall fast. To many people want F2P but maximum quality. To many don't want subbing but constant content update. They just don't get that MMOs are expensive as hell to make. You need hundreds of employees and tons of time. I'm sure there will be small gems and interesting things to come. That doesn't mean any of them will stick. They will end up with a niche community or just disappear like the many that have already. Until developmental process becomes cheaper we will never see a indie company let a lone a triple a company make a ground breaking game.
I have a good feeling New World will at least be decent. It’s by filthy rich Amazon with no crowfunding bs. Jeff Bezos wouldn’t want negative publicity by letting the game tank as it would just kill his game dev department
Ruok i really hope so too. I was waiting for years for the game with guns and “conquistador style” armor and helmets. Is there any MMO with that type of setting? Sort of... New World setting.
When I have the choice to buy a give me all your money AAA game again for which you pay well over 200 bucks nowadays or a crowdfunded possibility to make a real game like in the old days I throw my money at the kicktarter project instead of any existing Bethesda/Ubisoft/EA game anymore. At least I pay for the chance to have a real game in the end.
To continue your wishful thinking by thought: I'm not hopeful. Unless skepticism/critical thinking is taught in schools as main subject to counteract our biological imperatives given by evolution (many of which are no longer useful in society), people will stay prone to fallacious thinking. And that wont happen unless capitalism as a whole is dismantled as the incentive for capitalism in the first place is based on fallacious reasoning and controlling the middle and lower class to sell themselves low over a surplus for the rich. The rich have no interest in citizens figuring out that they're screwing them over for their own benefit. Which wont happen because those with the most power in politics are corporatists who basically control the lives and opinions of the populus through media, what and how we consume and being indoctrinated to love capitalism at school like religious people are taught to love their religion and gods at religious schools. Conclusion: the majority of people will always spend their money on trash unless they no longer have money to spend.
@@ren_dhark First of all, games don't cost 200+ USD nowadays, so don't get things out of proportion. Secondly, from a risk management perspective you are much better positioned by buying a triple A game from one of the greedy corporations than from any kickstarter project. Firstly, an AAA company has a lot more invested into the project beyond of what you are asked to pay. By the time you hear of the game, they had received a green light from their investors, closed deals with storefronts and invested millions into development and marketing. As a result, this warrants a much higher chance that it will be brought to completion even if you don't pay as the corporation wants a return on its investment. In other words, in the triple A scenario the investors take the risk for you, a calculated risk, but still a risk, and in kickstarting you are the risk taker. Which brings to the last part - that product will usually come out without you paying anyways, so if you don't fall for pre-orders you are almost at no risk whatsoever. This benefit is further elevated by the fact that Triple A games usually have a huge media exposure which allows you to examine the game and hear about it from all sides without having even touched it. Now compare this to kickstarting websites and campaigns, take a look at many of the stories of failed projects and people not refunded.
@@viisovari4544 so I better stop buying games, is that it? Or shall I simply buy that Triple A marketplace simulators from EA/Ubisoft/Bethesda. Sorry but every dollar lost to a failed game is a far better investment than any AAA game that had been published in the last five years.
Never backed or really followed this game, but 12:08 brought a tear to my eye. Great video, Peon. It's been way too long since a great new MMORPG has come out... we're all desperate at this point.
U just remembbered me thst i bought founders pack of this game. U can get it on steam now for couple bucks, i paid much much more and still cant play because i need to buy early access on top of the founder paket. So i can only play it when they release it. Rellay weird.
Backed it back it my teen years (jesus time have passed). Not sure if it was intentional scam, just seems like bunch of modders who didn't had any serious project experience under their belt though that they can make complex game.
Great video! Love that you brought up the games that are crowd funded that are actually good and said that not every crowd funded game is a scam. 10/10
Not sure, but I don't think it was a scam, rather that the developers simply had no idea what it would involve to make a game or what features it was sensible to aim for. I cancelled my Kickstarter contribution early on, after reading some of their ridiculous attempts at storylines and nutty plans for sieges and other things.
It was only crowd funded so that they can show publisher that there is interest in the game, most of the game was paid by publisher, the crowd funded amount is just peanuts compared to how much that game cost.
@@Vesacek To be fair that was elyrias goal, to get interest in the game for a publisher, of course they weren't actually making a game and it was a scam
Wait that one space game isn't a scam when its constantly putting out founders ships for hundreds of dollars but never making any real progress to an actual release? Pretty sure that game is a scam just a very well hidden one.
@@Justintime8838 With how long that has been in dev and the founder ships for hundreds of dollars there is no excuse. That game is a scam without a single doubt.
@@Justintime8838 if it is still selling ships for hundreds of dollars after the amount of money it has made from donations at kickstarts. I would say most likely.
As someone who’s currently slowly working on the systems and gameplay idea of an mmorpg, with hopes to kickstart it in the future, it’s very disheartening to hear stuff like this. It increases the likelihood that potential backers will look at my idea as a scam too.
I was a countess. I wish I had listened to my gut feeling and stuck to what I had observed and not giving them the benefit of the doubt. So, her I sit 5600$ later screwed. I am jaded regarding preinvesting in anything, at least for awhile. A lot of people are contacting Washington state attorney general. Oh, and his wife is a politician I've heard :/ Thanks for talking about kickstarters that worked.
Just properly understand what your investing in first, and what it takes to pull off. MMORPG's take a ton, and usually need big backing from the start. Kickstarting helps, but it takes many millions to pull off and 100's of developers. I forget, but I don't recall them having any of this.
@@msfortuknit Np, just make sure to keep that in mind when looking into anything else. Hopefully it will help you avoid some of those dung piles. Especially if you want to invest a ton. Just stop and look into whom and what you would be investing in and what it actually takes. Usually its a bit safer for smaller projects, but you really need to watch on mmorpg's considering their scale. I cannot personally guarantee as the project is still in progress, but Ashes of Creation is a promising mmorpg I have backed. It started with a multi millionaire boss that is funding it himself already, and has gotten many professional developers. They seem to be very professional as a business, especially for a new one, and just recently released a stream with actually big progress for the core features of the game. Just something you may keep track of if your still hoping for a good mmorpg. It seems as legit as a crowdfunded mmorpg will probably get. It could fail like any other of course, but it really doesn't look like it will.
90% OF KICKSTARTERS ARE SCAMS THIS HAS BEEN PROVEN. 9% ARE FAILURES BUT NOT SCAMS AND 1% ARE REAL. GAMBLING IS MORE PROFITABLE. ASSUME EVERY KICKSTARTER IS A PIECE OF CUCKED BETA MALE SHIT TRYING TO SCAM YOU SO HE DOESN'T HAVE TO WORK.
@@callofkarrenboomerops3262 its why i hate morons like this they are killing crowdfunding for indepeant creators so many undertales and Pillars of etenitys and pathfinder kingmakers will never be made because scammers like this murder the trust required for crowdfunding to work
@@wilmagregg3131 Is it really his fault though? I mean when you can make outlandish and wild claims on crowdfunding sites with little to no proof, toppled with a get out of jail free card. It's a hard pill to swallow and the only thing that makes crowdfunding work is either stupidity or trust. I would imagine it's pretty easy for someone of that nature to betray the trust of people you have never met. I will never support a crowdfunded game, period! The problem with crowdfunding is no one will take any responsibility. The sites that host frauds like this take no liability, the developers take no liability. The only ones left empty handed at the end of the day are the backers. I mean sure, regarding this case they will probably lose the class action lawsuit if only because of that land grab debacle before the end. However had they not done that they could have probably gotten off scot free as a failed attempt, nothing ventured, nothing gained ect. To be frank even if they win the class action lawsuit it wouldn’t matter anyway. The money is already gone and whoever it gets pinned on will just call bankruptcy and that will be the end of it. At the end of the day when the failures and scams outnumber the successful ten fold, it's not the peoples fault "The game was rigged from the start".
@@joshtaylor2143 scammers like this who break the communiys trust make people not trust crowdfunding projects which screws over actual creative people who want to not sell out to some major douche hole company and make what they and other people WANT to play most of my favourite games are crowdfunded since aaa went to shite AND abadoned real rpgs in genrarl other then project red
Man, I had so many people promoting this game to me when it was first hitting Kickstarter, and I was skeptical immediately, largely due to my experiences with The Repopulation making promises their engine couldn't even handle. It's a shame, too, the concepts sounded pretty cool and I would have played it if it had ever actually hit an early access stage. I do appreciate the shout out to successful kickstarters though. Didn't know the background of a few of them and will enjoy perusing their stories.
@@TheCooderix their latest showcase was to show off core systems. Not how amazing a finished product might look like. It's a rough cut but it sure as hell looks more promising than COE ever did. People are looking for the next big mmo. Now it's just a matter of releasing it in 2 years time or so and let people be the judge of it.
@@TheCooderix How was it terrible? It is before even alpha 1 yet they have nearly all the core features blocked in and working. Just a bit unrefined yet, but very promising. Are you looking with expectations of the same line of finished products or visuals? Because this trash game that was canceled seemed to only promise and give fake visuals. Ashes has been working on the actual core code of the game like multiplayer connectivity and server systems, not simply throwing visuals to pacify the simpletons that fall for scams like this shit. Really curious what you seen as truly bad or if its just a lack of understanding of development on your part.
@@Worick_ It's still scammy, far far far FAR from what was advertised and most of the things that were supposed to be included within the game are behind a pay subscription. Fuck Todd and his money-grabbing techniques, the fucking pioneer on microtransactions.
Back when I still had a Facebook I saw a gaming news article highlighting this game, mainly the part of the hyper realistic model just walking and getting old. The reporter said it may be the greatest mmo ever made in a couple years, ha. I think they also stated you need to pay for each character after they die of old age, so imagine the costs of paying a monthly subscription plus buying a descendant. I saw many articles on ambitious games being developed back then and now that they’re released, many of strayed far from what they promised.
So what happened to the world they showed in the previews? Was it from a different game? Im not understanding how they had it for demos but no for anything playable.
I watched Bellular's video about this yesterday and he seemed to miss a lot of the information that is being relayed here. Assuming all of this is correct Bellular needs to do a better job researching b/c the picture he paints leaves a lot.
I also backed albion online and what was there during the alphas and betas got old very quickly. There was just no depth and the core gameplay loop was far too grindy and unappealing. Even at launch it never turned into anything resembling the original vision that was presented in the early kickstarter materials. Now I've heard from others that it has come a long way since launch but for me it's too little and far too late. Maybe some other people at least can get some enjoyment out of it and that at least is something... but I doubt I ever will as I lost interest in the game a long time ago. I just wish that a game studio would, for a change of pace, actually deliver at launch what they promise at launch, for even one of these projects.. that would be a refreshing change - such a radical idea - I know...
@fenrif ya and unfortunately they'll also stop making games. would be nice if we could trust people so the honest ones could continue to make these games.
I posted this video on April 2nd at 2AM in my country, I forgot it’s still April 1st for those of you in NA/EU, this video isn’t an April fools joke.
Surely you're not the same LazyPeon as one I met with some friends on WoW Classic some months ago, maybe even a year ago, no? Playing on OCE servers.
That LazyPeon wanted to join our guild which was 'LazyPeons' or something lol
...are you not in Britain?
@@eagleflies9515 he's in thailand afaik
UHIS is that the lady with dicks place?
@@uhis1686 crikey I've missed a lot since the last time i was on this channel ahaha
When you see the phrase "Act fast or miss out!", there is a 99% chance that it is a scam.
It's a shame the public whom backed this can't show him what fully rendered torches and pitchforks look like.
Or another blizzard patch preorder
@@terrylandess6072 I'm sure it's not that hard to find out where he exists.
@@terrylandess6072 I can deal with people incorrectly using "who."
But incorrectly using "whom" is completely absurd.
@@alansmithee419 whom is whom that misused who in a improper context. Whom tought the man who he is?
nice touch adding the crowdfunded games that didn't actually turn out to be a scam
I'm proud to say that I put money into path of exile when it was crowdfunding. What a success that game ended up being.
Shaggy at 0.1%
Aren't they 100% owned by Tencent since 2018?
Still a good game, but Tencent is the arm of dictatorship China into western media.
@@JonesCrimson they must be giving very good deals to game developers for them to own so many things. They are also known to not interfere and give full controls to devs. If anything, tencent is better than EA and a lot of other western companies.
@@JonesCrimson who gives a shit if it's owned by a Chinese company it's a fun game.
The CPC is fucked, and Tencent pushes their agendga aggressively and at cost to players and their personal information. They don't deserve your money, perhaps the only company in the industry worse than EA.
3:49 A game that lets you choose your buttsize, we were so close to the pinacle of gaming.
The Castle Guards gon’ act up 😳👀
Breeders of the Nephelym is the height of human achievement.
"Me and my wife´s boyfriend have been learning Unity and C for like, i dunno, 4 weeks, and we want to make the biggest and most complex MMO ever made!!! we just need a few million dollars and your support ;D" -most crowdfunded mmos...
where i donate
Wife's boyfriend? 😭
@Seventh Taco its probably people who have worked as game devs their entire lives and didnt understand why they couldnt just add something to a game, it just takes time right? Why dont they make a game with everything awesome in it? So they go and make their own game company and realize there is a lot more on the business side of game development, then the developing games part.
Its simply game devs who are passionate about making an amazing game but just simply dont comprehend how to run a business.
Wallstreetbets is infiltrating youtube now?
@@angriff6466 my man ;D
The red flags on these projects for me is always when they start selling in-game progress, like land or items or spaceships or title or whatever even before the world in which this progress is supposed to exist is accessible whatsoever. Both because it's a pay to win sellout and the idea of paying money to skip non-existing gameplay to gain not yet accessible nonexisting rewards is ridicolous to me.
Star citizen *
@@anditard atleast star citizen is still being created lol
I bought this game Landmark before it was realeased and played it very very little before the actual release thanks to my founders pack access. Then I forgot about the game and came back to it in 2018....(Landmark was released in June 2016, and was playable until the servers were shut down in February 2017). Taught me to never buy a game that was not yet released.
Honestly this extends past games to kickstarter, indiegogo, gofundme all of which have more failures than successes if you think about it. Although there are some examples of games that succeed from these methods, there are tons more that fail and shutdown. For me, these sites = scam 100%
@@predat11 to call it ALL a scam is pretty cynical. The majority of these projects fail naturally, not out of malice. Usually just hopeful dreamers vastly misjudging the realities of game development.
And honestly, this is why open-window game development is a bad thing, and why AAA studios keep their mouth shut about their games. Game projects fail CONSTANTLY, AAA and indie projects alike. It's a reality of the medium. Crowdfunding just makes the masses blatantly aware of that fact.
"I hope one day you will all get the MMO for were waiting for."
Such is the prayer of the disenfranchised MMO-fan.
Amen.
It’s so sad.
when mmorpgs go back to social aspects, instead of having a lot of people playing solo with little to no interaction... yeah then we will have MMOs back in business.
One day we'll get one. Of that I'm certain.
I'm not even playing MMOs anymore. I have accepted that what they have become is nothing like the games I fell in love with ~16 years ago. I'm an outsider now, and every now and then I visit an MMO website (or a youtube channel like this one) to look around and estimate the state of the genre, and I always come to the conclusion that nothing has changed.
Been waiting since EQOA had it's last sunset a decade ago
Called it day one. Prevented my friends from spending even $1 on this at least 5 times. I’m proud of myself.
As someone who has done backend game engine work when I seen this I was like this looks cool. Then seen asking for 900k and 2 years. Was like not going to happen, not even in a huge AAA developer can they pull this off.
Need more people like you
Not all heroes wear capes..
Bs🤣
Wish I had a friend like you. I lost a couple hundred on this years ago because I was stupid.
i didnt donate a penny to this project, and im disgusted. those salaries are ridiculous. if i was one of those ppl who donated money i would feel so used, and abused
Well i did donate 50 euros which to me is a lot of money
@@Vaziri98 dw karma will get some of those scumbags
dftfujd dsrjdh people who love ntr
well those people are retarded, not much to say
@@jtthomas744 2020 people still believe in that "karma" will get them. no one will get them. they have the money, and will have a happy life from now on. karma does nothing, WE must do something. go there and scalp them for example.
Wow, 7.9 million dollars wasted, what a shame
not wasted. stolen
Pocketed fartbrain
tell that to my ferrari
I swear, throw them in prison, charge them with theft, because the damage doesn't end here, no one is ever gonna crowdfund another game at this desired level, even if some games would have had a high chance of being loved, now, they won't, because people are growing more skeptical thanks to this joke of a team.
Wasted, just like the braincells of the backers....FUCK you guys are stupid...im at a loss for words how these backers can keep throwing money at shit liie this....amazing
I remember when it was first announced, I was in one of their discord following their development. One time, a few group of people bought out some constructive criticism about the game on discord, the developer got mad and just blocked all of them and refuse to go on discord again. I stopped following the game after that.
These were potential hints.
I remember hearing that n bitches stayed n backed it anyways
A lot of developers on discord act like this, had this happen to friends and myself many times.
@@cathedral1375 And then they wonder why it fail.
Exactly.
Indie Dev: Hey, we need a suspiciously low amount of money to make a ridiculously complex game that will have systems in place that not even AAA developers are capable of implementing. All the while, boasting gorgeous life-like visuals that would require a massive studio to be able to efficiently build, while maintaining stable performance. Also, we're a 5 person team of inexperienced devs with no pre-developer track history, and we're totally going to be finished and able to release the game in a year and a half.
Gamers, sitting in their gaming chairs, gnawing on crayons, and drooling on their shirts: Here's $100 dollards.
PSA: If an early access/crowd funding game sounds too good to be true, plot twist, it is.
LOL and showing only tech demos. Some studios did that years ago(looking at you blizzard for Warcraft online). I didn't know their was a mmo-S market and never heard of the game. some of photage looks like it's from skyrim. and others a tech demo. No idea where from though.
Amen.
Hey, you're expecting too much of this baby generation that can't read more than 2 words and people who get their feelings hurt over words.
@@lawlestest ok boomer
Even if such a game was possible, no one's computer would be able to run it without it looking like a slideshow.
I've never seen the words "Act fast or miss out!" and thought, "Wow, what a great business."
If you call now you get a 2nd copy for free!
“But wait there’s more!”
More like act fast AND miss out. Of your money that is.
in life... those that promise the world, and are quick to make any sort of big promises, these are literally the people you cannot trust. But a person who hesitates to make any sort of promise or commitment, them you can trust.
wise words
Thank you for thr video. The aftermath of this project has been so sad to watch. People that talked for years together got silenced on the game's Discord page because Caspian got upset. Devs and moderators were opening fighting over how things ended. The entire thing has been a massive let down and to be honest, has contributed to my own lessened opinion of Mmos as a genre. It sucks that there will always be Caspian's out there. On the bright side, we did get a new insult out of the ordeal. Stay well and don't be a Caspian!
Lmao they sent out an email to everyone today saying they're going to try to continue development. Aka they feel like they could steal more money so they're going to try
Dae they won’t get any money here on out unless they release beta
They shoulda just kept their mouth shut. They shoulda pulled a Hello Games and gone silent for 4 years and come out with 'by the way, here's the game'
They shut down their shop so I dont think that's the case
80% developer keeps from the scam, 19.5% spent on defense lawyer, 0.5% spent on the demo
.5% is also being generous.
You forgot the 5% that went to premade assets lol
The problem is you really can't get sued. because you never know IF this game would even be able to work out with the funds that you get. and it's impossible to refund people if you already spend the money. So if someone tried to create a game and it just didn't work out. then o well at least they tried.
I was initially thinking to myself "is it really a scam though, or just a failed project that possibly ruined these devs' careers?"...but then it got to the part where the guy was selling ingame stuff for a ridiculous amount of real money when the project was already dead, and yeah.
I was thinking the same thing, wondering how TLP could call it a scam so confidently right up until the land sellings followed by game shut down.
The lead guy taking a salary of 200k a year was another huge snarf to me.
I mean look at star citizen. It's still in alpha, and selling ships for thousands of dollars. Somehow they get away with it though, even though it's not even close being complete.
@@HaplessOne You can play Star Citizen and SQ42 will release in a year, and their financials are openly published and backed by a movie studio.
@@rooster1012 that doesnt matter to me personally. If your game is still in alpha you shouldnt be selling exorbitantly priced ships, it's that simple.
@@HaplessOne That's just like, your opinion, man. And it's a bad one. It'd be wrong if they knew the game might not ever be released, though.
they probabally used the corona virus as an escape rope and ran with the money.
Be a nice court case and compensation for the backers when its all over, so they best not spend all their money :)
KSP2 used coronavirus as a reason to postpone the release from "2020" to "fall 2021"
Really doubt the virus had much to do with it, just sounds like they weren't ready
@@A5tr0101 pretty sure they dont have any, thats usually how out of money works
@@A5tr0101 Are they required by law to return crowdfunding money? Probably not lol
RUN!
I'm going to start a kickstarter. It's going to be the greatest elephant MMORPG. You can make elephant babies, customise your trunk with a million options, migrate across a massive Savannah and build your own elephant houses... yeah really.
Do it, I bet millions of brain dead neck beards will donate. Dumbasses never learn, ever. The same pieces of sub human garbage that actually fell for this scam would make the same mistake in a heart beat - because they are fucking worthless morons. Kudos to the scammer guy because he knows the masses are so astoundingly stupid they will pay for anything and everything
TAKE MY MONEY!!
No joke, I'd play an elephant simulator.
@@NWLegacyChannel finally someone calling it like it is I see a bunch of little fools who paid for this acting like they are victims
It’s a niche, you might be on to something.
Never heard of this game in my life. And i'm into rpg's.
cool, I need hints on 2-3 games to play
@@maxmagnus777 rpg's or overall good games?
@@maxmagnus777 witcher 3 must play
@@RoccaaaHD rpg's of any kind
@@zerus3271 Hey tnx I will try it.
Trailer: Much graphics! Such gameplay!
Reality: Mobile parkour game, and not even a good one at that.
"what chronicles of elyria has just doesn't exist in gaming"
I mean, shadowbane had most of those features in like 2003 or whatever. all the kingdoms, merchants, shops, cities, towns, houses, etc. were all player owned (and it was a fucking nightmare, you'd play this game all day everyday, no life that shit, and then wake up one morning and your rank 2 nation, that actually has the largest population of any nation because it has the most and largest cities, had all it's cities sacked in the middle of the night by some dudes who built their kingdom in the freaking islands near the northern pole.
also, it kinda sounds like mmo bannerlord with free running, ya kno
This is why I'm excited that Ashes is gonna require normal times for node and castle sieges. lol that shit would piss me off.
bombchomsky Interesting that the Vikings also exist in the digital world
sounds like GW2 at launch. players were quitting in droves because in WvW, all the work your guild did capturing nodes was completely erased when you woke up in the morning, as no one was awake to defend your shit. first days of GW2 pvp were massive battles, then within a couple week barely anyone was left in WvW lol.
Thats why the same group of people from shadowbane can pull off a new MMO - crowfall, I backed CF when they start the crowdfunding.
the CF team is constantly posting tech problem they were facing in the development and so many SB players with tech background made good conversation with them.
@@zamorak666avesatanas8 ikr im still sad since when i actually cared to play i could barely find anyone online in any game mode accept for gardens and graveyards which dont get me wrong is fun but im more of a deathmatch and free for all type of guy
"A world created by the players" that will never exisit. Period. Even if we had the technology to actually do that. Communities in videogames can go from very enjoyable and helping people to a bunch of the worst annoying assholes on the planet, but in any of those cases players can't actually create a playable world. People may create castles, cities or even reigns, but that would never be permanent place on the game's world. Guilds tend to abandon the game for long periods of time, players tend to leave their projects unfinished for many reasons (and all of them reasonable), and the few guilds and players that can actually do that will do it to create a powerfull PvP base from where launch attacks and predate over other player's territories. In the end, something like Elyria was proposing will become a clusterfuck of epic proportions.
I don't know mate, isn't Eve Online player driven? And it's still alive and kicking
Ultima Online disagrees with you.
wurm online?
@@pillarmenn1936 Indeed it is, and the largest alliance is led by a player who doesn't even play the game. He has many castles, planets and tens of thousands of players ready to turn their ignition key and ride to huge battles at his command.
rust comes to mind, if the player base gets too big it is bound to get ruined by a toxic minority
I got hyped for this game myself. I wish I could play a game like what was described, but unfortunately it was too good to be true.
Same here but maybe some day
Ashes of creation looks promising
I don't remember ever hearing about it, but I totally understand. That description sounds amazing, but doable.
I really hate people who do this kind of thing.
Valheim actually comes far closer to what was promised with this 'game'. And it was made by a small team relatively quickly. And is still being developed.
Sure, its not massively multiplayer - but its a damn sight better then whatever this abomination is.
@@andromidius tbh looks like they attempted to steal valheims models and animations in more recent videos and parkour. They look super similar
I _vaguely_ remember this.
I lost my lungs at the: "Oops, outta money! All 7.9 million."
That seems an awful lot to piddle away regardless of the project at hand!
Its actually a total of about 9.5 million in total throughout everything. the 8 million was just through their website alone. then about 900k on kickstarter, then the initial 500k Jeremy Walsh "claims" to have invested with friends and family.
Pure fraud and negligence IMO. This is a white collar crime and should be treated as such. I hope that they don't get away with these criminal actions.
That's a drop in the bucket for MMOs. Even basic themepark MMOs that you can flip assets on. Having a completely player controlled world was never even close to the realm of possible. High end MMOs can burn through $300 million with half the features they listed.
The problem is that 7.9 million dollars is enough to justify the bad reputation.
It disappears pretty fast when you pay yourself 1/4 of a million a year....
I love the highlighting section in the end. A lot of these games deserve more credit than they get :).
That being said, Wolcen has massive issues besides Bugs. I was originally not bothered too much by the bugs, exploits and crashes. I played Singleplayer so most of these were fixable / didn't affect me too much. Now even with all of these gone, Wolcen has really big problems that come down to game design. I originally really thought of it as having great build diversity, however it effectively doesn't have any. You get too many skill-points and most damage scaling is meaningless (it's all additive ... yes ... all of it) meaning every build pretty much took the few nodes on the tree that actually multiplied your damage. Since you already get like 800% increased damage from your attributes alone (horrible system btw), 15% increased damage is ridiculously pointless. This also applies to "negative" modifiers, which often offer incredibly powerful advantages for a neglible loss in damage. You''d basically take them all.
So even if they fix everything wrong with Wolcen from a technical side, I very much doubt it will have engaging and actually thought through gameplay systems for a long time. All of the above is simple mathematics used in basically any ARPG to develop your own character. Wolcen essentially gets the most basic thing about character building and scaling wrong. As Quin said it ... the seed might be rotten.
have you tried Titan Quest Anniversary Edition? That scratched my ARPG needs dearly lately.
@@SirKakalaCh I know of Titan Quest but since I already didn't like the class system in GD very much (which is originally from Titan Quest), I never considered giving it a serious shot. Though I'd still highly recommend GD to anyone. Great ARPG. I'm a long time PoE Player and Supporter and it fits exactly what I need for an ARPG. Namely the best character customization in any game I've ever played :). Thank you for the suggestion though! I might check it out once Delirium enters its third month.
@@theStamax I kinda like Titan Quest more than GD, GD looks really muddy.
As for Wolcen, quite true. Didn't help that many of the nodes didn't even work(though some probably felt like they don't work due to what you mentioned above). End game content was kind of a joke too.
I enjoyed the campaign a fair bit, surprisingly. Was actually curious where the story will go. So that's 1 good point on it for me. It was entertaining. I know many don't play arpgs like that for the story.
Who knows, if they put their heads down it might improve greatly in a year or two. Or maybe not.
@@HiddenStr3ngth Yeah Wolcen is really up in the air right now. If they redesign fundamental character customization then it might be really good. And fix uniques in the process please^^
>.> Is that the fight scene from the princess bride...The Fencing....did they really....just....REALLY!?
I knew it looked familiar! The stairs in the scene, even the choreography....
yo I literally thought this and am so happy I'm not the only one that noticed this. It's really blatant actually!
When I watch this video and read this comments I'm honestly dumbfounded at how much slack people give this. People talk as if there was a game in development but the funders were let down. Hell, it's blatantly obvious that this was a pure and simple scam. I can tell that there never was a real game in development, this whole thing was orchestrated from the beginning to con people out of their money. Hell, this guy could propably get a hefty bit of time in the jail, or at least a massive fine. I must say, he did a fine job exploiting the weaknesses of kickstarters/crowdfunding, especially in combination with the games industry.
You seem like the kind of person that freaks out when their food order is five minutes later than the delivery estimate
@@swishfish8858 Let's see. Making fake gameplay trailers, and after that a demo that looks like a shitty, rushed mobile game, and not even slightly remeniscent of those fake gameplay clips. Asking for a ridiculously small amount of money for the game, then when people actualy give that much, asking more, and even after that taking a fat salary off of your measly budget for yourself. Taking in money and just mere weeks later announching that the game is dead. You have to be in serious denial or immensly naive to actuay believe they were planning on releasing anything in the mids of that cash-grabbing chaos.
@@paistinlasta1805 Okay so I didn't finish the video before coming down here, that's my B.
@@swishfish8858 5/5
Video Game industry is fucking up all other industries. Nothing can compete with the production rate of a computer that churns out digital data at the speed of light. Slap a price on that, and we've just sold out our entire planet, 1 z-buck at a time.
Who will feed the devs when farming is an industry looked down upon in favour of digital commerce?
Makes me angry. That $7M had it been invested in something like Dungeons and Dragons Online, would have been used wisely and benefited the gaming community within. Scammers like this guy whatsisface gives a blackeye to crowdfunding as a whole, not just MMOs.
Dungeon and Dragons? More like My wife's son & My wife's boyfriend.
@@DsiakMondala Aww, she left you for a higher grade of nerd?
The saying "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" comes to mind. Shame
Scam Citizen XD
Star Citizen is a great example of people's propensity to buy into a dream rather than a fully realized idea.
I can't wait for the game to release, but the game isn't getting a dollar from me until I know they can deliver. I felt the same way with Elite Dangerous until they announced the ability to finally walk around stations and ships, so that'll be fun.
@@stockloc I got Elite Dangerous and it's one of the most depressing under realized games ever. The devs basically have a game that would allow them to print money but they are too lazy. Star Citizen might never be released sadly but I hope they do. As a concept it looks amazing but for what I heard they are years and years away from something decent.
Exactly. Another saying also comes to mind: "The only things certain in this life are death and taxes".
"It was announced that Chronicles Of Elyria was officially a scam"
No-one in their right mind when starting a business puts themselves on a 200k+ annual salary. That alone is a huge, huge red flag to not fund it, but also to keep clear of any work involving someone like that for the rest of your life lol.
What a rank, pitiful amateur lol.
Kingdom Come Deliverance was a kickstarted game at one point. I can't recall what the portion was. I think it was mainly to prove interest so someone else would back them but kickstarted none the less. Great game!
they asked for what they needed and they delivered in full, well mostly. we still need to wait for the final act, but it seams tehy are working on it.
@@GalliadII oh ok, that's interesting. I wasn't aware that the game wasn't fully complete on release. I did contribute to the Kickstarter and got my copy but I didn't realise that the game wasn't complete as I only played it for about 15 hours which is not really enough to get anywhere in the game really.
Yeah they kickstarted to raise enough funds to show investors the interest in their product from the community. Some billionaire actually made KCD possible
Kingdom come it's miss ing some stuff like large scale battles
The difference is, of course, that Warhorse Studios is made up of veteran game programmers from companies like 2k Czech (Mafia/Mafia 2), Bohemia Interactive (Arma series, which was the engine used for DayZ standalone). When tried and true developers set up a crowd funding, it's a safe investment. Otherwise, it's a gamble.
I live in a city called Elyria . And we have a newspaper called The Chronicle.
Sounds like you're trying to scam me!
XavierM but not every city is named Elyria 🤔
Sounds like you're getting more bang for your buck than this Kickstarter backers got!
Same. Elyria, Ohio
well at least some people can live out the dream just not the way they intended it
why cant developers get thrown in prison for this type of crap.
Edit: It was a Rhetorical question, but I'm glad it sparked a debate for you.
@Mr. Al So i guess there is nothing else than capitalism or communism. :P i believe if we didnt have capitalism the games would be made to be enjoyable and not money grabber.
I guess it really depends on when the scamming started, law supposedly protects you from a scam product if it was a product without any progress, on the other hand a person can't be arrested for being stupid, so if the company went bankrupt for bad management there's not much that can be done.
@@findrst3295 if products are enjoyable, you buy them. if they are enjoyable, you recommend them. if people buy them and recommend them, you make a shit ton of money. looks like you didn't think this comment through or did you?
Because you donate. It's your own risk.
cz its ppls decision , ppl give them money by there own free will
1:26
They took an artificial market one step further and added artificial consumers. How did this not implode wayyyyyy earlier
Hey, great video, Peon!
Thank you so much for taking the time to try to show people not all crowdfunded games are a scam and giving some very sound advice on how to keep an eye out for those shady projects... As a game developer myself, it's nice to see people like you pushing to make a positive change!
I almost backed this, but I hated the idea of your character dying so I didn't.
Glad I dodged a bullet.
I liked the concept, didn't back either.
Buhu death penalties in games Buhu
fear of death is important lol
Agree honestly seeing my char dying because he is getting old felt pretty pointless imo. I can do that on my own.
@@rickroll9705 you're doing a great job.
It is a good video on the situation of Chronicles, but I absolutely loved the ending when you quickly review lots of good projects and released titles. Awesome job, Peon!
DOS 2 was on Kickstarter and it’s the game that allowed Larian to make Baldurs Gate 3, that’s all you need to know to keep supporting crowd funded games
I decided to stop crowdfunding MMOs years ago. This was however one of the few I did support. It makes me sad because I love most of the ideas, especially the aging and descendants
wizardseven same, I was really hyped once they announced it. But let’s see what happens, as the official news is that is has been suspended not canceled. Although everything points out that the development is cancelled. It’s truly something sad but it’s something that does not really surprise me
hopefully, someone sues them.
Think there's a whole reddit about that.. with tutorial how EU donors can sue etc.
Good luck getting any money, the guy is probably broke or nowhere near enough.
@@AtomTheReactive might be broke but I bet he still has assets they can seize.
There's actually a discord with about 700+ people who backed the game that are currently working on doing so, only issue is Covid-19 may delay any real action being done for a little while :/
Can you even sue kickstarter? That shit is like giving money to a bum, you cant sue them for using the $1 you give them to buy crack.
When I first stumbled across this a few years back, I looked into this potential game in quite a lot of detail. It screamed scam from day 1 but I was almost convinced by the fact is had been registered as a kickstarter project.
I emailed the COE development team to say I didn't want to purchase anything in advance but offered my own services in assistance. They were only interested in one thing - getting my money. The whole thing again cried out as a scam.
Individuals spend thousands of pounds (which the majority will not get back as the assets held by the development company are intangible and thus have no value now the project is ended and the assets impaired) These people were completely mislead by the team.
Kickstarter needs a complete overhaul. The money should be held as an independent fund, accruing in balance and only become available to the company upon delivery. If it was held in a fund, the development team could have then used this to negotiate loans with lenders or equity agreements with investors. Should the project not raise finance elsewhere, then the project is not viable and the funds should be returned to the kickstarter individual investors. Similarly, in the case of COE, the funds would have been returned when the project went bust as delivery had not been completed.
I wish all the best to the people who have been completely screwed over. Whilst you chase possible litigation, dont forget to rally against kickstarter for changes to policy and protection for individuals.
That's a brilliant idea.
Kickstarter isn't a game investment site...you are litterally offered nothing more than being delivered a game..with 0 backing. And you own 0 of the company making the game.
It’s kinda like gambling. Don’t spend what you’re not willing to lose
@@asambi69 I do appreciate that - and you are right for some cases. In these cases you mention putting money in is essentially a donation.
However most crowdfunding platforms do offer a return on investment. You dont raise 7 million pounds from people without offering then a return.
I have since found out that in this case, people were not protected as COE made people purchase packages directly from them - outside of kickstarter. There should be restrictions in place to prevent this, as otherwise all kickstarter becomes in essence is a third party advertising platform to lead people into a unsecure, unprotected payment system.
@Conshe Tumare You don't understand what im saying mate!
There is complete logic in it. By building up a fund thats available upon completion, it can be used to support a funding application with a lender, or equity investors.
They, having the skills to judge whether a project is actually viable, assess it and decide whether to invest. If they believe the project is going to be completed, they invest and will get the funds upon completion.
That way, the kickstarter fund gets used as a persuasive method to lenders/investors who see that it has demand and viability. It almost acts as collateral.
That Perfect World BGM at 10:07... Nostalgia kicks
Can't trust what they say, only what they show. And what they "show" is almost always just environmental pans or assets purchased to show the "potential" look of the game later. Until I see online gameplay of these games idgaf anymore.
Skylent Games agreed. It was a dead giveaway for me also.
Luckily Ashes of Creation seems to focus more on the actual coding of the game coming first. They get shit talked for not showing tons of things, but the core things that truly matter to get down are sadly the ones that are not the easiest to show. Like server code and other back end code. They tried apocalypse to allow peoples to help test that code and help improve it, but they just assumed they were wasting effort on BR and were paranoid/misinformed what it was for... They cannot win in this aspect. They even just recently showed a complete raw stream of the mmo and its early state which was very promising for those that understood what point in development they were and what that in tales, but the ignorant masses that fall for flashy stuff like this are bagging on them still... Even though they are showing real progress towards what everyone wants with core systems already in and working except for a few bugs here and there.
Idk I just find it fascinating.
Sounds a lot like yandere sim
"And what they "show" is almost always just environmental pans or assets purchased to show the "potential" look of the game later."
That was true of Ashes of Creation, and while they've hit plenty of bumps in the road they certainly have gotten somewhere. There's no hard and fast rule; the only advice is to use your head, use your intuition and uhh... _good luck_ if you decide to crowdfund.
They had alpha gameplay and all (low textures is acceptable for demo), so I understand why some say you did not do your research, but still it was visible that they were not able to pull-off the dream game they wanted... Did the owner consult his employees before closing? *Looks* like a shitty emotional decision after so much work and funding. I am not in his shoes. Anyhow, I also did *not* fund and felt it was going nowhere "fast".
When they started to bring up features that even **I** though was unreasonable to expect from an mmo, and i can be demanding, that's when i knew something was up.
Some of the ideas were good. Too bad it turned out to be a load of steaming crap
Hey there I was one of the high backers in the monarch package. The CEO Caspian could have gotten a publisher but he chose to let the project die, having a store promotion only days before he shut it down, without any refunds. It doesn't get much more sleezy than that. Sure it's easy to say all of us backers were gullible and naive, but the industry needs new independent crowdfunded projects with backers to take risks in order to have those new fun games that break from the norm.
That being said, I'm done taking risks on crowdfunded. I am one of those people who don't plan on ever backing another crowdfunding. This isn't the first project I've backed, never on this level, but still, my goodwill has run out. Sure some have panned out, some have survived, like albion, but most were disappointments even if they were made. After all these years, it just seems like a crap shoot when it comes to what succeeds, whether they are a big studio or a indie company, doesn't seem to matter. I wish the devs that want to pioneer new roads for mmos well, but I'm done shelling out my money for dreams. I will wait till I see more than snipbits of gameplay. I will not be persuaded by some content updates and flowery promises, no matter how good natured, and good willed, and "open" the devs seem.
I will wait until I see an actual game.
Funny thing is, backers are investors in a way, you do the same thing, you give money to something in hope that something comes of it, the only difference is backing something is a donation where you get nothing but (hopefully) what you wanted. The investor gets a return on money (again, hopefully). So I'd say never back something and instead invest, same risk with an actual shot of making money.
@@GECKman88 Well you cant exactly invest in a game with 50-1000 dollars.
@@karambiatos Why not? You can make an investment into a company on grounds of what it does etc for the min price of a single share. Shares are quite often not that expensive, sure you won't make a lot of money but you will make something.
If a companys shares are worth say, $12.75, then you can spend that for one single share if you really want to.
When crowdfunding gets legal measures tied to it to prevent scams I'll consider backing something. Until then I remain as I was day 1. I will back not one single project. Not without a legally binding contract.
simply because the industry needs a new breath does not take away from the fact you got scammed. The two ain't mutually exclusive.
"Hype levels were through the roof"
*has never heard of it*
I ... see?
You too?
just because some random nobody has never heard of it, doenst mean others didnt
@@yourealittlebitfat4344 Sheesh.
Hit a nerve did he?
😅
@@joelbizzell1386 Still, it´s the truth. The game had a lot of hype going on, many waited for it.
@@UncleHam1337 Oh, I'm not saying it didn't.
I was just kind of amused that whozits up there seemed to take it personally that the original commenter or I hadn't heard of it.
I feel compelled to shout out Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night as an example of crowdfunding done right. The devs responded to criticism of the game's look and retooled the entire thing while still delivering a great (dare I say amazing) game. I wasn't a backer, and I didn't even know it existed until it came out, but it is definitely a success story.
Doesn't matter its such a small % that the good things do not matter there is so much bad the good is pointless to speak about. For every BRN there is 600 Mighty number 9s.
It helps the head dev was the head guy on castlevania and knows his shit. It also helps that he didn't want to dump his rep for a quick check.
The world is just a playground for sociopaths
@Sightless_Seeker because sociopaths take advantage of non sociopaths good will
@Sightless_Seeker you misunderstood my comment
The world is a battle between predator(sociopaths) and humans. Humans are currently losing...
One of the developers is literally called 'Snipehunter'. It's like they were rubbing it in people's faces.
Cringe weeb
2:50
Hard to imagine that he'll get away with it after you've shamed him like this. Good job & TY!
My God, that's disheartening. I caught wind of this game when it was first announced and I was still a minor and only very casually interested in video games and had no idea how unrealistic their ambitions were. I was really into the concept of it though, and subscribed to the free newsletter.
I kind of stopped actively following it after a few months and would check in every year or so, and I was honestly still kinda excited for when it would eventually come out, and then I found this video. Oh well, that's that then, I guess. Maybe a more competent team will pick up the concept, take the best parts of it and discard other things that would make it impossible to develop for anybody but AAA developers and do something really cool with it.
I'm in the same boat from everything you said. Was really looking forward to it (as an afterthought once in a while). But yeah, moving onward I guess.
None of us should be surprised but here we are.
Always sad to see another one bite the dust.
The search continues...
Ashes of Creation.
- Has a multi millionaire backing it as the boss.
- Shows promising visuals here and there, but has focused more on the core of a mmo, the Server code and other back end code.
- Has recently shown actual mmo in game progress that proves that many of the core features are in game and working, but just a little buggy until ironed out.
- They shoot for big things, but are not afraid to turn down too ambitious of features when brought up/asked/requested. Showing they have a understanding of what they can handle in by launch.
@@merccc1 I agree with this, correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen much feature creep yet.
chilling in guild wars 2 as the search continues...
@@alexbrauner9417 they've just had a stream where they show a lot of gameplay from the pre alpha state, it's up on their youtube channel
I've found my "Go to game" which is the elder scrolls online, I love it. Only problem is there's no oceanic server so I'm playing at 300ms ping :(
This is the first I've heard of this news and I just wanted to say I'm really happy you decided to end the video on such a positive note. All too much I see people who criticise even the idea of crowdfunded video games. There really is a lot of passionate developers out there who just truly can't make their dream a reality otherwise and failures like this one really do just make it that much harder for the smaller guys to rise up.
I was always aware of Chronicles of Elyria but just like you I only followed it casually. Not to try and sound hypocritical to my previous point, one type of game I'm very much paranoid about backing are MMOs in particular. Not simply because I think they're going to be scams but because knowing how much money you must have to pour into project even more-so than any other. I was interested in CoE because of course it sounded ambitious. Far too ambitious. It was something I truly wanted to see the light of day, but being cautious from the get-go I only observed it from a distance to see if that day would ever come. Unfortunately it did not (and I was starting to wonder why I wasn't seeing too many updates from their TH-cam) and this is the price ambition must pay. While I truly believe the devs did WANT to make this game a reality, their lack of transparency was clearly ridden with shade, all whilst trying to still take money from their fans after the game had been "funded". Be upfront about it and who knows? You fans might find ways to get your game even more out there and in the open.
There were multiple "kings" that came from Chronicles to the Ashes of Creation Forums and we accepted them with open arms ;D
Solo leveling
@@pneumonoultramicroscopicsi4065 Good eye! It took me a solid minute. Lol
@@JuanToFear I'm not sure how anyone could forget the faces of those horrific statues
Star Citizen: "I'm more alpha than Chuck Norris."
Chronicles of Elyria: "8 million dollars and I never even went to alpha."
Star Citizen: "Touche."
SC is still far worse imo
@@crishealingvtuber8626 How it is worse when you have 60 gb worth of alpha that you can play with big updates every 3 months and the other one literally had nothing to show for it lol.
@@Genesys1040 oh idk about this other game, but SC has taken millions for way too little for that money's worth, and also has done DLC's for thousands of dollars.
@@Genesys1040 I got a refund from my sc purchase a year ago, and still no progress to an actual game is here. Where is squadron 42????? Its been so long, they aren't doing anything of value.
Okay I thought this was an April fools joke but nope its real.
I'm such an idiot for sinking 70+ dollars into this project.
you're not an idiot for getting burned on this, you would be an idiot if you kept supporting games on kickstarter after getting burned.
are there no law atm protecting backers for this kind of scam?
Yeah u right your a dumbass
@@floyddominique3731 From what I heard Xsolla is giving refunds.
@@yetikoalaace7780 Clearly you didn't watch the end of the video. There are plenty of great games that wouldn't exist without crowdfunding. There's obviously an inherent risk involved, so be wary of games promising you the moon.
...coughs in Star Citizen
For crowd funding games you forgot my 2 favorites: Pathfinders: Kingmaker and Kingdom Come: Deliverance!
shame that kingdom come deliverance is a goddamn technical mess
Kingdom Come Deliverance is a great game I loved it! ❤️
@@adamdoran1398 you never play the game, i see that.
@@Omegaxxxfly yeah no you obviously didn't play it that games texture pop ins were a fuckin nightmare
Bruh I've been addicted to Kingdom Come...such a great game
"Our plan was to attract publishers..."
Because in 2016 there were publishers looking to make an MMO centered around roleplaying? You might as well try and sell an electric car design to Haliburton.
lol nice analogy
ZechsMerquise73 Hali-what?
I was soooo hyped for this game, fortunately I didn’t give them any money
lol
Same. I was super excited, but I've been burned by giving money to incomplete game projects before so I always make it a point to only spend money on stuff that *at the very least* has a playable demo/early access version.
5:05 I don't know about you, but I can't wait for that amazing CGI reboot of The Princess Bride. Such realism, such grace, it's really going to bring it into the new millennium.
dude i love how you dont hold back on scumbag scammers unlike other mmo reviewers!
You do realize Peon has done many questionable things as well, right? He's been in serious trouble for a lot of things. The only thing is, he usually deletes the issue. Like his FFXIV video.. the moment people were seriously mad at him he just deleted the video and any evidence of it existing.
@@Eventide215 no one is flawless. If some snowflakes get angry at someone's opinion, get help.
@@xXMetalforever1994Xx Lol are you really going with that idiotic reply? The entire video wasn't just his opinion. He quickly judged the game to be horrible because he did nothing but skip through then understood nothing about the game. He based an entire review on that. He's a reviewer, not just a random opinion online. You're supposed to do your research, give everything an equal fighting chance, etc. He did none of that, and rarely ever does lately. He USED to be good before personal issues started happening.. now he's just absolutely horrible.
@@Eventide215 If he's so horrible why are you still coming to watch his videos?
@@pyan4046 You didn't fully read what I said, did you? If you did, you have the reading comprehension of a 3 year old..
Shame on them, as always nice video... even tho I'm still watching it.
This sounded like a scam from the start to be fair.
i laugh at the poor fools who purchased the ability to start as a king/queen at launch(or any pack at all). if im not mistaken those were 10k packs and sold out
High key yeah
"You can do AAAAANYTHING you can age and have kids and it's super realistic and perfect and it's gonna go on forever and be a king or a soldier or" sounds like one of those fake mobile game ads, how do people fall for this
how? Me and my team can make an mmorpg with literally 100$
I don't see why anyone needs 900k
Heroz look like you don’t even know what you are talkin about kid lol
@@HerozOfficial got a 4 month devlog yet?
Heard that Perfect World music in the background, so much memories!! It made me nostalgic ♥
Wherever there is light, there is shadow my comrades.
Good on you for ending this video on positive crowd funding, Craig.
I've been saying to the members of the community on the forums that the game is a scam and they all hated me for doing so. White knighting the scamming Dev's.
People need to regain logical thought.
phuse99 they thought they will be knights in this game. But in the end? They all became scammed peasants.
Neck beards will beard their necks, brother.
*scratches neck*
i played with a guy who spent 10k on the game lmaaooo i told him games never gonna be released 2-3 years ago said i didn't know what i was talking about and tried to get me to get it
@@kingkingghgh Yeah i know a couple too, those are coincidentally the same people who dont believe *any* conspiracies, because everyone is telling the truth 100% of the time. Cause if they weren't it'd be in the media right? .... _facepalm_
That Perfect World music towards the end. Good times.
This scammer should get a jail sentence tbh, he have litterally stolen thousands of dollars.
millions*
try 8 millions
They should be sentenced to make the game while in jail. They only go free when the game is finished and ready to be released and garners positive reviews. They will also receive none of the game's profits.
No he didnt, he got people to invest in a project which ultimately failed, it is not a scam, it is something that happens everyday, in all walks of life
It`s more than just stealing money.. they destroyed hope and trust for alot good people and they damaged all the other kickstarter games :(
I'm noticing a new trend growing up in gaming. First we had AAA developers making games that felt incomplete or lacking in various aspects, despite the budget and developer team behind those AAA games, and now we're having the polar opposite from that scenario. Indie developers trying to bite more than what they can chew.
They promisse to make a game that's gonna be mindblowing, but in the end, they end up chaing everything and failing to keep their promisses up, essencially lying to their customers, and this is pretty frustrating, because it only hurts developers that are actually interested in developing a game and using Kickstarter to fund their projects.
This is exactly why I don't support Kickstarter projects or Early Access games anymore... you can't tell if you'll actually get the game, or if you're going to be scammed.
I agree. I'm sure that a lot of the time, the indie developers really want to make it work, but it just becomes unrealistic at some point. A short game with focus and quality content is much more enjoyable than a game that wants to do 10 things at once, and only manages to implement its ideas haphazardly, if at all.
True, just look at DayZ. Not sure if it was there all of this crap started but it's the best example of why to never get a early access game again.
obviously you're not support bannerlord then right?
@@thencrranger5628 No indeed I don't. A friend gifted it to me, otherwise I wouldn't even have it, even though Warband is one of the best games I know of.
Bannerlord however is like any other early access, unplayable because it's too far from finished. Bannerlord in particular is in quite a hilarious state right now, because the end of the main story line isn't even in the game yet. It stops progressing at a point where an NPC is trying to remove you from power by making other factions attack you randomly. So it's literally you against the world if you make a faction of your own, which is an impossible fight to win unless you cheat. And that's not even mentioning the broken economy.
@@JohnTheRevelat0r I know a lot of people like DayZ since it got out of early access, and I can't any longer know if it is indeed good or not since I haven't played it since a few months after the 1.0 release. At the 1.0 release however, I still considered it a early access game since it just felt so unfinished still. I don't understand why they even bothered implementing base building, because they are so easy to raid, nobody in their right mind would bother building one. But I suppose DayZ has gotten out of the hopeless situation it has been in for such a long time considering the player base is actually decently large, but at the end of the day I wish I had not bought it back then, maybe not even today. Got to give Bohemia some proper respect though for sticking with the game for so long and trying to fix it.
10:12 oh that perfect world soundtrack! Beautiful
5:10 Whoa! That set is straight up copied from The Princess Bride! Seriously, search for "Princess Bride - The Sword Fight" here on TH-cam, then pause at 4:04. Lol, that's just... wow.
10:05 clock that Perfect World OST! that made my day... so nostalgic
I hope New World will be good and Ashes of Creation will change MMORPGs until then i will just keep playing FFXIV Online 😁
Lmao, Ashes of Creation is already a certified scam. New World is already selling p2w items to pre-order their "deluxe" edition... so it will probably just be a big cash grab like 90% of them. MMOs are dead... there's a reason Blizzard sold out as well, the cost is way to high to produce and maintain them.
here is the sad sad sad truth. Doubt on any game changing MMORPGs for atleast 3 to 5 decades. I'm sorry but it is the truth. People expect new MMOs to be incredible and rival stuff like WoW and FF14 at launch... They won't. Sure some will blow up but will fall fast. To many people want F2P but maximum quality. To many don't want subbing but constant content update. They just don't get that MMOs are expensive as hell to make. You need hundreds of employees and tons of time.
I'm sure there will be small gems and interesting things to come. That doesn't mean any of them will stick. They will end up with a niche community or just disappear like the many that have already. Until developmental process becomes cheaper we will never see a indie company let a lone a triple a company make a ground breaking game.
I have a good feeling New World will at least be decent. It’s by filthy rich Amazon with no crowfunding bs. Jeff Bezos wouldn’t want negative publicity by letting the game tank as it would just kill his game dev department
Ruok i really hope so too. I was waiting for years for the game with guns and “conquistador style” armor and helmets. Is there any MMO with that type of setting? Sort of... New World setting.
@@sovex9331 I feel sorry for you
One day people are going to learn to stop paying for things that don't exist.
When I have the choice to buy a give me all your money AAA game again for which you pay well over 200 bucks nowadays or a crowdfunded possibility to make a real game like in the old days I throw my money at the kicktarter project instead of any existing Bethesda/Ubisoft/EA game anymore. At least I pay for the chance to have a real game in the end.
To continue your wishful thinking by thought: I'm not hopeful. Unless skepticism/critical thinking is taught in schools as main subject to counteract our biological imperatives given by evolution (many of which are no longer useful in society), people will stay prone to fallacious thinking. And that wont happen unless capitalism as a whole is dismantled as the incentive for capitalism in the first place is based on fallacious reasoning and controlling the middle and lower class to sell themselves low over a surplus for the rich. The rich have no interest in citizens figuring out that they're screwing them over for their own benefit.
Which wont happen because those with the most power in politics are corporatists who basically control the lives and opinions of the populus through media, what and how we consume and being indoctrinated to love capitalism at school like religious people are taught to love their religion and gods at religious schools.
Conclusion: the majority of people will always spend their money on trash unless they no longer have money to spend.
@@ren_dhark First of all, games don't cost 200+ USD nowadays, so don't get things out of proportion. Secondly, from a risk management perspective you are much better positioned by buying a triple A game from one of the greedy corporations than from any kickstarter project.
Firstly, an AAA company has a lot more invested into the project beyond of what you are asked to pay. By the time you hear of the game, they had received a green light from their investors, closed deals with storefronts and invested millions into development and marketing. As a result, this warrants a much higher chance that it will be brought to completion even if you don't pay as the corporation wants a return on its investment. In other words, in the triple A scenario the investors take the risk for you, a calculated risk, but still a risk, and in kickstarting you are the risk taker. Which brings to the last part - that product will usually come out without you paying anyways, so if you don't fall for pre-orders you are almost at no risk whatsoever. This benefit is further elevated by the fact that Triple A games usually have a huge media exposure which allows you to examine the game and hear about it from all sides without having even touched it.
Now compare this to kickstarting websites and campaigns, take a look at many of the stories of failed projects and people not refunded.
Ren Dhark Stop being optimistic. Start being realistic.
@@viisovari4544 so I better stop buying games, is that it? Or shall I simply buy that Triple A marketplace simulators from EA/Ubisoft/Bethesda. Sorry but every dollar lost to a failed game is a far better investment than any AAA game that had been published in the last five years.
They say there's no honour among thieves. And by god did Walsh take every last penny he could.
I don't think you know what that phrase means.
11:00 Star Citizen isn't a scam and seems to be making decent progress? If you believe that, well, I'm crowfunding a bridge you see...
*yawn*
I hope that in the future you will never put the title of your video: RIP "Ashes of Creation" -another scam mmorpg
4:52 "when someone enters your room". Dude is literally staring at the screen while holding the mouse.
Never backed or really followed this game, but 12:08 brought a tear to my eye. Great video, Peon. It's been way too long since a great new MMORPG has come out... we're all desperate at this point.
Sounds like the devs from "Identity" where student devs gave them self huge salaries and the game progress is -10% each time you hear from them.
U just remembbered me thst i bought founders pack of this game. U can get it on steam now for couple bucks, i paid much much more and still cant play because i need to buy early access on top of the founder paket. So i can only play it when they release it. Rellay weird.
Backed it back it my teen years (jesus time have passed). Not sure if it was intentional scam, just seems like bunch of modders who didn't had any serious project experience under their belt though that they can make complex game.
the perfect world background music got me nostalgic fak
Good, I'm not the only one. Kinda wish the game didn't go down the drain, but got a few good moments to remember.
I thought I was going mad, glad to know I wasn't hearing things. PWI was awesome 5 years ago. Still lots of good memories. Shame they got so greedy.
I wasnt expecting this video would hit me so hard with nostalgia xD
I KNEW IT. Friend of mine from WoW spent loads on this game and would never shut up about it. Always knew it was a scam.
Great video! Love that you brought up the games that are crowd funded that are actually good and said that not every crowd funded game is a scam. 10/10
I'll admit, there's a lot more crowdfunded games out there than I thought that aren't a scam
The MMO Embers of Caerus by Forsaken Studio was also a kickstarter SCAM.
Not sure, but I don't think it was a scam, rather that the developers simply had no idea what it would involve to make a game or what features it was sensible to aim for. I cancelled my Kickstarter contribution early on, after reading some of their ridiculous attempts at storylines and nutty plans for sieges and other things.
Kingdom Come: Deliverance is still the best rpg to date and it was crowd funded.
It was only crowd funded so that they can show publisher that there is interest in the game, most of the game was paid by publisher, the crowd funded amount is just peanuts compared to how much that game cost.
Garbage
Not anywhere near the best rpg.
It's Divinity Original Sin 2 by Larian for me. They delivered beyond their promised milestones just to surprise us fans. It was beautiful.
@@Vesacek To be fair that was elyrias goal, to get interest in the game for a publisher, of course they weren't actually making a game and it was a scam
Wait that one space game isn't a scam when its constantly putting out founders ships for hundreds of dollars but never making any real progress to an actual release? Pretty sure that game is a scam just a very well hidden one.
Star citizen is not a scam. It is ship buyer simulator.
What do you mean by not making real progress? Have you seen any of the latest updates?
@@Justintime8838 With how long that has been in dev and the founder ships for hundreds of dollars there is no excuse. That game is a scam without a single doubt.
@@FatedGamer well it be a scam when it comes out?
@@Justintime8838 if it is still selling ships for hundreds of dollars after the amount of money it has made from donations at kickstarts. I would say most likely.
As someone who’s currently slowly working on the systems and gameplay idea of an mmorpg, with hopes to kickstart it in the future, it’s very disheartening to hear stuff like this. It increases the likelihood that potential backers will look at my idea as a scam too.
I was a countess. I wish I had listened to my gut feeling and stuck to what I had observed and not giving them the benefit of the doubt. So, her I sit 5600$ later screwed. I am jaded regarding preinvesting in anything, at least for awhile. A lot of people are contacting Washington state attorney general. Oh, and his wife is a politician I've heard :/ Thanks for talking about kickstarters that worked.
Just properly understand what your investing in first, and what it takes to pull off. MMORPG's take a ton, and usually need big backing from the start. Kickstarting helps, but it takes many millions to pull off and 100's of developers. I forget, but I don't recall them having any of this.
@@merccc1 Thanks for this. I learned too much too late.
@Sightless_Seeker There was Soooo much back peddling and mistakes and rude remarks when they were held accountable. It was disgusting.
@@msfortuknit Np, just make sure to keep that in mind when looking into anything else. Hopefully it will help you avoid some of those dung piles. Especially if you want to invest a ton. Just stop and look into whom and what you would be investing in and what it actually takes. Usually its a bit safer for smaller projects, but you really need to watch on mmorpg's considering their scale.
I cannot personally guarantee as the project is still in progress, but Ashes of Creation is a promising mmorpg I have backed. It started with a multi millionaire boss that is funding it himself already, and has gotten many professional developers. They seem to be very professional as a business, especially for a new one, and just recently released a stream with actually big progress for the core features of the game.
Just something you may keep track of if your still hoping for a good mmorpg. It seems as legit as a crowdfunded mmorpg will probably get. It could fail like any other of course, but it really doesn't look like it will.
@@merccc1 Yeah, deffo a lesson learned the hard way.
I'd prefer to be more honest with a "keep me from needing to work" fund.
how about the top guy retired off the money and paid living wages to everyone else.
90% OF KICKSTARTERS ARE SCAMS THIS HAS BEEN PROVEN. 9% ARE FAILURES BUT NOT SCAMS AND 1% ARE REAL. GAMBLING IS MORE PROFITABLE. ASSUME EVERY KICKSTARTER IS A PIECE OF CUCKED BETA MALE SHIT TRYING TO SCAM YOU SO HE DOESN'T HAVE TO WORK.
@@callofkarrenboomerops3262 its why i hate morons like this they are killing crowdfunding for indepeant creators so many undertales and Pillars of etenitys and pathfinder kingmakers will never be made because scammers like this murder the trust required for crowdfunding to work
@@wilmagregg3131 Is it really his fault though? I mean when you can make outlandish and wild claims on crowdfunding sites with little to no proof, toppled with a get out of jail free card. It's a hard pill to swallow and the only thing that makes crowdfunding work is either stupidity or trust. I would imagine it's pretty easy for someone of that nature to betray the trust of people you have never met. I will never support a crowdfunded game, period! The problem with crowdfunding is no one will take any responsibility. The sites that host frauds like this take no liability, the developers take no liability. The only ones left empty handed at the end of the day are the backers. I mean sure, regarding this case they will probably lose the class action lawsuit if only because of that land grab debacle before the end. However had they not done that they could have probably gotten off scot free as a failed attempt, nothing ventured, nothing gained ect. To be frank even if they win the class action lawsuit it wouldn’t matter anyway. The money is already gone and whoever it gets pinned on will just call bankruptcy and that will be the end of it. At the end of the day when the failures and scams outnumber the successful ten fold, it's not the peoples fault "The game was rigged from the start".
@@joshtaylor2143 scammers like this who break the communiys trust make people not trust crowdfunding projects which screws over actual creative people who want to not sell out to some major douche hole company and make what they and other people WANT to play most of my favourite games are crowdfunded since aaa went to shite AND abadoned real rpgs in genrarl other then project red
Man, I had so many people promoting this game to me when it was first hitting Kickstarter, and I was skeptical immediately, largely due to my experiences with The Repopulation making promises their engine couldn't even handle. It's a shame, too, the concepts sounded pretty cool and I would have played it if it had ever actually hit an early access stage.
I do appreciate the shout out to successful kickstarters though. Didn't know the background of a few of them and will enjoy perusing their stories.
Help me intrepid studios you're my only hope!
You mean the next scam? lol
@@n3rdstrength Nah, he means the one and only save and grace
@@ImmortalityV I thought the latest showcase of their game looked terrible. Genuinely confused as to why people are hyped all of a sudden?
@@TheCooderix their latest showcase was to show off core systems. Not how amazing a finished product might look like. It's a rough cut but it sure as hell looks more promising than COE ever did. People are looking for the next big mmo. Now it's just a matter of releasing it in 2 years time or so and let people be the judge of it.
@@TheCooderix How was it terrible? It is before even alpha 1 yet they have nearly all the core features blocked in and working. Just a bit unrefined yet, but very promising. Are you looking with expectations of the same line of finished products or visuals? Because this trash game that was canceled seemed to only promise and give fake visuals. Ashes has been working on the actual core code of the game like multiplayer connectivity and server systems, not simply throwing visuals to pacify the simpletons that fall for scams like this shit.
Really curious what you seen as truly bad or if its just a lack of understanding of development on your part.
This has reached E.A. Level of scam lmao. This might be worse than the fallout debacle
Fallout is playable now at least. This will never be
@@Worick_ It's still scammy, far far far FAR from what was advertised and most of the things that were supposed to be included within the game are behind a pay subscription. Fuck Todd and his money-grabbing techniques, the fucking pioneer on microtransactions.
@@Worick_ But it's on a much larger scale.
Back when I still had a Facebook I saw a gaming news article highlighting this game, mainly the part of the hyper realistic model just walking and getting old. The reporter said it may be the greatest mmo ever made in a couple years, ha. I think they also stated you need to pay for each character after they die of old age, so imagine the costs of paying a monthly subscription plus buying a descendant.
I saw many articles on ambitious games being developed back then and now that they’re released, many of strayed far from what they promised.
So what happened to the world they showed in the previews? Was it from a different game? Im not understanding how they had it for demos but no for anything playable.
I watched Bellular's video about this yesterday and he seemed to miss a lot of the information that is being relayed here. Assuming all of this is correct Bellular needs to do a better job researching b/c the picture he paints leaves a lot.
That's why i stopped watching him(well, watched some videos due to YT recommendation). Questionable/poor coverage of things.
5:20 looks like an exact remake of a scene from The Princess Bride lol
I think that was the point
That's what I thought too.
lmfao hahaha you're right
What a nice movie. But instead the backers got whats looks like a cheap N64 role playing game.
I also backed albion online and what was there during the alphas and betas got old very quickly. There was just no depth and the core gameplay loop was far too grindy and unappealing. Even at launch it never turned into anything resembling the original vision that was presented in the early kickstarter materials. Now I've heard from others that it has come a long way since launch but for me it's too little and far too late. Maybe some other people at least can get some enjoyment out of it and that at least is something... but I doubt I ever will as I lost interest in the game a long time ago.
I just wish that a game studio would, for a change of pace, actually deliver at launch what they promise at launch, for even one of these projects.. that would be a refreshing change - such a radical idea - I know...
@fenrif ya and unfortunately they'll also stop making games. would be nice if we could trust people so the honest ones could continue to make these games.
i love the fact that 5:11 is just the princess bride