How Stoics deal with jerks, narcissists, and other difficult people
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2024
- Stoicism for Inner Strength (book): einzelganger.co/innerstrength
What can we do about loud and smelly commuters, unpleasant coworkers, or even abusive or narcissistic people we share our houses with? This video goes deeper into dealing with these and other difficult people through the lens of Stoic philosophy.
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Video: When being alone is a choice... (personal journey)
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00:00 - Intro
01:50 - The bath
05:56 - People who stink
08:40 - Two handles
11:05 - Go outside
13:57 - The vanity of retribution
#stoicism #epictetus #toxicperson
This is what I learned through life:
The goal is not to change people, but to live your own life in peace.
Well said, good advice.
It's so hard when people actions and how they treat you makes it hard to change them.
So, instead I avoid people. Because I deserve respect just like everyone else and I don't have to deal with that stuff.
But, the downside is I'm always missing out on this.
I love my family but, they say too many toxic things to me and they spread things that are not true about.
I don't like most of my friends, so I cut them out of my life. I only talk about three people who check up on me and we still talk those people are my friends.
@@matthewyarbough223 rite on! I have only one allergy....human toxic as holes.
@@matthewyarbough223 l can relate to so much of what you said. Bravo ❤
make observations
How beautiful it is to remain silent, when someone expects you to be enraged.
Yes silence is our greatest weapon. The greatest reaction to toxic people is no reaction. Give them no attention, for that is what they only seek!!
So beautiful so sweet like honey 😋
Makes them act more nuts. Incredibly satisfying.
I wish I had the strength to do this
@@stardust1ism You can just say to self you can. And focus on something else when you're in that situation completely remove your mind from that equation..it's that simple. You'd be surprised how it works like a charm. Good luck 👍
This is why i love being in isolation for 90% of the time. When i interact with another person, especially if they are narcissists or rude, it takes me hours to recharge from that encounter.
So trueee for me too🙂
Me too John.
Sometimes days and not hours.
It takes time to clear the spiritual stench those folks give off.
takes me half a day to get over the migraine I get by not bloodying their lip.
You aint lyin
Sometimes the best thing we can learn from jerks and damaged people is see them as an example of what not to be.
Dont be damaged? a lot of things that happen to people aren't damage caused by themselves. Ignorant thing to say.
@@CitiesOfAsh Agreed, This is discounting traumatized individuals, individuals that are taken advantage of/manipulated, those with various mental differences. Next time i have traumatic flashbacks i'll just try to remind myself to "not be damaged" lol. What a world we live in lmao. "damaged people bad, stay away from the homeless child, homeless child is bad because they're damaged and homeless and you should just use them as an example of how to not be homeless which is by not being homeless" lol
Agreed. Having worked with a wide variety of people who experienced abuse and trauma, the difference is stark between people who make choices intentionally vs. those who let the past dictate their behaviours.
@@CitiesOfAsh no joke what a shallow thing to say. I just came by to check things out but looking through these comments, sounds like a lot of lonely people. 😅
Hump okay then lol
I totally agree!! @@CitiesOfAsh My parents are abusive narcissist assholes...I try and be the opposite of them.
Removing yourself from toxic people's lives is one of the best things you could ever do for yourself 🙏
That's why I abandoned my children at the mall, you need to cut toxic moochers out of your life.
@@BrotherCaptain36 That's the spirit! 🤜🤛
True, which means I spend a LOT of time alone, although it doesn't bother me. 😂
Yes - and for the people we love. I did not have the clarity to go No Contact until I saw how my relationships with toxic relatives was impacting the people I’d chosen to be in my life. My life with my fiancé flourished, my friendships got deeper and my love for life itself became stronger. It was because I was AVAILABLE for them in a way I could not be when I was always navigating the murkiness of my family.
You are a bit obsessed with smelly people! Unlike in Rome we have deodorants and toothpaste so this is a less frequent problem. Nasty people or sometimes just stressed out people are more the problem.
Bravo.
I spent most of my adulthood doing my best to keep my criminal parents in my life without bringing me harm. The well intentioned and well adjusted would insist “you only have one mom, dad” and one day -9 years ago I realized I only have one life.
I don’t know why I wasn’t born with their defects and abusive tendencies or how I didn’t end up like them but I’ll never forget the moment I read Seneca at 16 “we can’t chose our parents but we can choose whose children we become”.
Thank the stars!
Powerful…🙌🏻
You really don’t have one life but i get what you’re trying to say but it still doesn’t work that way
On the other hand I've spent most of my life attempting to undo the harm that my socially conformist and yet privately violent parents manged to inflict with particularly spectacular success. I mean _someone_ has to keep up the demand for intoxicants as well as provide employment for those engaged in the legal profession, right? l was somehow imbued of the good sense or at least the good fortune to neglect the fathering of any offspring but perhaps you can see where I'm clumsily attempting to go with this.
wow. Bravo comment.
Actually, you have two lives. The second one begins when you realise you only have one
Often, the best way to deal with such people is to show them the attention they deserve--none at all.
What if they get violent? I've tried to ignore narcissists before and in their absolute obsession for attention they started to shout in my face and hit me
No amount of ignoring will change that
@@SamuelBlack84I scared narcissists away at work by facing them, showing them that I'm not afraid to stand up for myself. They never bother me again. So peaceful now.
@@blackcat138 It doesn't help me
@@SamuelBlack84 mine worked with bullies and narcissists who cares for their image, so when they found out that I'm not afraid to get dirty and take them down with me they backed off a little. Not sure about your situation, but be strong and walk away from them if you can, if you can't then work on a plan to get a way no matter how long, and stay calm and focus. No one can ruin your life. They have no power, only you have this power, don't give it away to them, understand?
@@blackcat138 i have neighbours like this. It's not nice since they moved in. they try and intimidate me . I'm an empath and I'm guessing the woman is a bit of a narcissist.
I just sometimes fantasized and wished that we lived in a society where people were more conscious of their actions and kinder to one another.
wish that sincerely
Sounds like a vegan planet
My friend, the key word there is "fantasized". It is a fantasy. The best thing to do is accept that the opposite is reality. People are deeply flawed. Sometimes even good people do bad things, just like sometimes bad people do good things.
I like what I say in parting to service people. . . -
Don't let the Assholes
bring you down!
YOU DO IT! AND DO NOT WAIT FOR OTHERS TO DO SO, OR DO YOU THINK OTHERS ARE IN THIS PLANET TO PLACE YOU???!! LIVE AND LET LIVE! PERIOD, IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT, MOVE AWAY, YOU ARE NOT A TREE, ARE YOU? Stop asking OTHERS TO CHANGE but YOU BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT! GROW UP ALREADY!
I avoid negativity at all costs...I even moved out of state to escape the toxicity. No regrets.
Which state?
But you can't run away...
Most people are the common denominator of their own lives, even if they spent their whole lives denying that fact. Problem with relocating to get away from problems, is wherever you go there you will be. Perhaps moving truly was the simple solution that works out, but most of the time it's not. One aspect of every complicated relationship between people is that it takes two.
So you are living alone?
@@JonathanVachon777 Better to live alone than being surrounded by dickwads 👍
The best revenge is no revenge. The narcissist would like nothing more than for you to stoop down to their level so they can justify their deplorable behavoir. I grew up with a narcissist mother, about 12 years ago I just walked away from her without calling her out or seeking revenge or any kind of harm to her. I never looked back and my life got better by the day. She's gone now, I didn't bother to visit her on her death bed or go to her funeral. When I come across friends (appliances) of her I never talk about her. I will not keep her memory alive by doing anything to her, I kill her memory by treating myself with the respect I never got from her.
Love this. Perfectly said. ❤
Some of them still feel a sense of pride when you don't retaliate because they see you as an easy target
Very good for you! Thankfully none of those trolls that cannot fathom a reality different from their narrow understanding of the world -- saying stupid stuff about you should honor your parents or whatever 😂
But now you share the memory with random people on TH-cam. its contradicting.
@@SamuelBlack84 I agree! Sometimes, there comes a point when you need to bip em on the nose to let em know what lies beneath.
I too walked away from my family of origin. The environment was loveless, toxic and just superficial. It was the best choice I have ever made and has allowed me to heal from it. I have a family of my own now and a great peace in my life. Stoicism is right "you can't change people because ultimately it is out of your control".
If you would not accept behavior from a stranger there is no rule that says you must accept it from a relative. Being a relative gives them no free pass for bad treatment. IMO.
No passes for anyone, not even your wife or partner, nothing can get in the way of your tranquility and being one with your nature.
Exactly
I agree, they don’t get a pass, but there’s also no way for us to control them, that’s where it gets difficult. You can try to properly deal with them, but if it’s too much to handle or they choose to not change, that’s when you leave them behind. You don’t deserve to be dragged down by them.
There is a difference between relatives and family. You are born with relatives. But you choose your family. Family do not have to be your relatives.
No one is entitled to a relationship with anyone! Family (of origin) often act like no member have any choice in continuing relationships
Never stoop to someone else's lows. My Mom taught me that as a child, and I have always tried to live within that thinking. Walk away, and let them reap what they have sown.
Thank you for this❤.
lots of crazy people out there and allot of smart people 2. glad ur mother imparted some stoic wisdom on you -memento mori.
It's funny how you brought up this subject as I am currently dealing with this. The way I deal with it is by walking away. A narcissist is nothing but an actor, meaning you are but a prop in their reality show. Once you realize it was all fake, then you realize there is nothing there for you to hang on to. You can't dwell on something that never existed. By walking away you take away the one thing that matters most, and that's your reaction. You may not get instant satisfaction but know they can't stand it and in the end it is you who has the last laugh.
"The best revenge is to not be like that"
-Marcus Aurelius
I’ve mastered the art of loving people from a distant. At 15, my father made it easy and I didn’t spoke to him for 10 years. In his absence, I became a mother and was able to rediscover his good characteristics by focusing on how he positively impacted who I am. Like you, I did prove him wrong. It was only then, I forgave him because I wanted to learn from my parent’s mistakes and be the parent I wish I had. Fortunately, many people gifted me the luxury of their absence since. I have joy, inner peace, set new boundaries and no longer a doormat for ungrateful feet. I am still working on balance but focusing on hobbies and living in the present.
❤️❤️ this is encouraging thank you
“I am not a doormat for ungrateful feet.” I am saving this quote. Thank you for this gift.
The gift of their absence is a great quote
"msny people gave me the luxury of their absence" can be also apploed to us. Some people will only be conscious of what they did and accountability if we leave at the first moment
As the son of a narcissist I haven’t spoken with in 8 years, I approve this message.
As the daughter of a covert narcissist mother, I had to block my mother's phone number years ago. I relate and approve. Spread the message! Only see her two times a year. No hate just protecting myself.
Its going on 2 years for me. Pretty sad, but its been one of the best decisions that I've made. My father is a very impossible man and a big source of my torment for longer than I needed. You must find courage to leave the table, if respect is no longer being served.
When I was 12 my mom remarried a narc. That was 1992. Couldn’t figure out why he was so weird and everything was about him. One day years later maybe 2014 I googled his behaviours and the word narcissist came up endlessly. I read lists like 10 traits of a narc. Every list he was fully checking 8 9 or 10/10. He was abusive and still same so I keep myself and kid away from him.
Good for you man. You deserve better. Fellow narcissistic abuse survivor here. You are a badass.
@@sleeperno1215 you too my friend. Thank you
As someone who suffered from a narcissistic mother, I could relate a lot to what you said. Now we rarely keep in touch. The quote from the movie called August Osage county gave me a great courage to leave her physical and mentally.
“I can’t perpetuate these myths of family or sisterhood anymore. We’re just people, some of us accidentally connected by genetics, a random selection of cells.”
Just watched that movie yesterday !!! 💯 Agree
Sad, because even if your mom is narcissistic, isn't the love still there? I agree you should remove yourself if something is toxic, don't get me wrong. It just seems difficult.
@@Here4TheHeckOfItthe desire for love is there, but normal love never really develops. It's more like "I wish I could have loved them". Once I was old enough to hang out at my friends' houses, it came into even sharper focus that something was really wrong with my mother.
No contact with mine 11 years, or the Narc sister. "No contact ever again" , they are unable to change & scapegoating betrayal is on their mind always.
Prof Sam Vaknin s work has been invaluable 👍🙏 for understanding the (play book all cluster B s have).
Happy healing & all to play for ❤️
I’m about two years into not having contact with my mother and I have to say it’s one of the best decisions I’ve made in my adult life. She’s an over the top narcissist, does not take accountability for her actions, violates boundaries purposely, and flat out lies on a regular basis. I had enough. When I was growing up, it was just her and I for the most part. We have a small family. I’ve watched over the years how many relationships she’s had (business, romantic, friendships) has ended in them being the asshole according to her. Nothing is ever her fault or the result of her behavior. I couldn’t stand this any longer because it was only a matter of time until I was the target of her demented thinking and narcissistic behavior. She thrives in chaos and causes it willingly. It’s like it gives her some sense of purpose and joy. So glad she’s not in my life any longer.
Oh yeah it's called "narcissistic supply". They DO thrive on the chaos like an energy vampire. My mom is a narc too. Congrats on realizing and getting to a healthier place.
Word😢
I’m 2 weeks into no answering calls from mine. The guilt is setting in, but I’m staying strong! I’m changing the access code to my life💪🏾
@@shadowfax9177 Thank you. I appreciate that!
@@robinlarge1630 💯
Over time I've learned to walk away & stay away forever, from aresholes/difficult people.
They never brought anything positive to my life...& I learned they never will.
Best to throw away forever & only share your time on those you feel aligned with.
Most problems are blessing in disguise, it make us stronger and confident but first it must tear us down it could mentally, spiritually or physically but it would make us stoic it sucks because of the pain but it could be seen as beautiful once we master what use to tear us down. No pain= no growth
Pain+faith+resilience= growth
Trust the process❤
"Blessing in disguise." You get it!!
I first saw this on a bumper sticker in California in 1967 - THE MORE I SEE OF PEOPLE THE MORE I LIKE MY DOG - amen. Still stands true
Keep up the great work! I love your videos.
I am from Sri Lanka. I left a narcisstic, abusive, gaslighting husband after a 20 year marriage of agony.
He's NON-EXISTENT IN MY MIND.
I've moved on with my job and two adult children, happily indeed.
You only need yourself and just a few loving and reliable people to live your life to the fullest.
Philosophy and literature have been my panacea; needless to mention, the videos of yours as well👏💜
I am so happy for you. I agree with having only a few key people in my life.
I have many family members who accuse me of isolating and maybe that’s true with me and maybe with you. But if we are happy, that is all that matters.
Praise god you had the strength to leave this situation safely 🙏
Same experience here, my father is a horrible narcissist, broke off contact 10 years ago. My mother has issues too, she never helped me, even when l really needed it. They talked bad about me behind my back, now I'm all isolated from my family, they don't even reply to my messages. Even so I'm better off now, that's how bad it is. The thing l see as the biggest problem is people don't believe parents can be bad people apparently. Thanks for the video. 👏✌️♥️
When you run up against someone else's shamelessness ,ask yourself this: Is a world without shamelessness possible? No, then don't ask for the impossible,
There have to be shameless people in the world, and this is one of them ,the same for someone vicious or untrustworthy or with any other defect.
~Marcus Aurelius
I love that quote and it has helped me tremendously in dealing with my reactions to people who I am supposed to be in ideological conflict with. I am the "libtard" of my neighborhood and while it breaks my heart that we've become so divided, I refuse to be less of a good neighbor because that is ALL that matters.
It reminds me of when Jesus said: 'The poor will always be with you'. I feel he wasn't just talking about economically impoverished.
I saw this advice on dealing with bad drivers, at a highway rest stop. It said “It isn’t your job to teach others how to drive.” That could well be applied to many other areas of life where we encounter people not behaving. It’s not our responsibility to correct them. Good advice, but often sooo hard to follow!
teaching driving is complex n some people just cant master some things as well as others. thats all it is. if you use that saying as an excuse to be lazy uninvolved, nonchalant n simply a bystander all your life, then thats your choice. other sensible stoics who believe in the dao will help the downtrodden and attempt tocorrect misbehaviors. Yet, the outcome is still up to other person, but now you've done your part.
I don't get road rage. I am a tiny bit proud of this.
@@kellychubai am working on this and i am proud of you. It ain't easy !!!!
Then who will correct them?
I am an introvert. I grew up with toxic relatives and it was more difficult for me to find a way to overcome their bad behaviour and selfish attitude. I improved my social skills and learned to be confident and assertive. If anyone is rude and obnoxious I would deal with them by using humour at their expense. However, some people have limited emotional intelligence so there isn't much that anyone can teach them anything other than to lead by example.
Remember this one :
Once you step down to their level (enemy/bad people), they already win...
By keeping your virtue and silence...
Either you'll hurt them or you might win them on your side...
Yes
Rude People = NPC
My problem is that my enemies infest my old hometown, which means I can never return home 😢
I could've used this info 50 years ago.
😂 same minus a few years. Narcissists should never be allowed to have children.
Philosophics, Oritory and Rhetoric should be a Primary required class throughout Highschool.
Would aid the common person in Critical Thinking, communication with others, and day to day life.
But we cant produce Critical Thinkers in Schools. Critical Thinkers make bad Worker-Drones (most use the word Bee)
Children must obey and not question authority ever. Its quite impactful a system on those who both meekly obey, and those who starkly resist.
The school system needs. Needs a Revisal.
Unfortunate that is but let's not speak about should have could have would have let's talk about now and what are we going to do about it
Haha
I could've used this 2 days ago
Several years ago I was diagnosed with PTSD as a result of of my relationships with my parents and brother. Within days of my diagnosis, I ended all contact with them. It was one of the best things I could have done for myself and I have no regrets. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Pretty sure I have something along the lines of this. Terrified of what one does with such a diagnosis, to be as far away as possible does help.
@@cinderellacc Along with therapy, studying stoicism and eastern philosophy helped me greatly to overcome my fears and anxiety. I wish you well on your journey.
you're living with the symptoms so what would change but for the better if you get a diagnosis?
I get that if it's not official then we can deny it but that also keeps us from getting help with our healing. in the end, I stopped worrying about what a diagnosis would mean (a stigma or no longer being able to overlook my family's sadism) but living with PTSD proved more miserable than accepting reality and reworking myself.
❤️🩹
I found much comfort in knowing their reactions to my actions are not in my control. I left a nasty abusive releayionship this February, 3 tears after I found your channel on a night where I had enough. The teachings you’ve shared aided me in healing and I walked away not shattered, but with a full new foundation. I appreciate you.
Wish you sincere content and happiness. Sometimes we have to make the break.
I suddenly feel more connected to you. I have cut ties with my narcissistic family and am now more happy. I work to better myself away from them, not to prove anything to them.
i wish i could do that.. but i have my 9 year old nephew...
@@cheesecake4648 Try as much as possible to limit your contact with them.
The stoic suggestion that I liked the most was yours. Leaving family, especially a parent, takes strength. I have left family and friends, and your video helped to validate my actions. I rarely look back. Thank you.
Me too❤
Same same 🙏, the only way forward 👍✔️
Ruminating on the wrongs done to me and having vengeful thoughts is “drinking the poison and hoping the other person will die”. Exhausting and self defeating. I now take the perspective we can only act according to our level of consciousness at the time. That goes for me and difficult people I encounter. This enables me to see their behaviour in a more detached manner. I find I can even become more compassionate toward them, recognizing they are really messed up (rooted in their past experiences, and view of the world) and I am so glad I am not living their life. This does not absolve them from having to experience the full consequences of their choices and actions (broken relationships, trouble with the law, etc.). If they want something different, they have to change themselves. Even though I am not Buddhist, I find that when vengeful, angry thoughts arise, I send them the silent Buddhist intention: “May you be happy, may you be peaceful, may you be free from harm”. I helps me immensely.
Well stated but I take the Taoist approach. The best action is no action. Observe the moment and move on to the next one. Time, if such time comes to pass, will bring a reply.
Buddhist? You know, Jesus said that.
@christineyee2117
That's the best attitude I've heard in a while. ❤thank you
I also cut all contact with my father because I thought he was "crazy." as I put it when I made that decision at eleven years old. When I began learning Psychology much later in life, personality disorders specifically, I realized he had most of the criteria for NPD as well as very clear ASPD. I can't help but wonder what my life would be like if I had continued to see him on weekends (my parents divorced when I was an infant)
But with this level of mental illness there's no denying that you're better off not having people like this in your personal life. Even if that person is a parent, a sibling, a child. Some parents will say that they would never "abandon" their children no matter what they did or how they acted. But every person has a limit, a breaking point, beyond which they will no longer accept any further abuse. I am reminded of a scene from the movie Basketball Diaries. Where Mother and Son are pressed again opposite sides of her door, the lock latched. She won't let him in because he's homeless and addicted to heroin and she has had enough of the abuse. She calls the police and the scene ends with them dragging her son away while she weeps for him and herself.
In such a sick world we have to learn to take care of ourselves in a healthy way. If that means a life of solitude and few, if any, close relationships, perhaps that's what our future as a species will look like.
Hey, I believe you did the right thing. I have loose contact with my father after my parents divorced when I was young. For many years, I thought my life would have been better with more contact from my father. Looking at him more objectively now that I'm older (55) and seeing how his second family turned out, I am so very glad that there was little contact or influence from him in my life. I'm better for the lack of him. Perhaps you are too? You're brave to have made that decision so young and it sounds like it was exactly the right thing to do. Bravo!
dealing with people, even with those that smell bad = you made my day
This channel is the ultimate tribute to "Stoicism". ❤😊
His voice is so calming it adds so much value imo.
Apreciate how you get personal about it, i can really relate. The more i seem to get to know more about your personal life the more i see why i listen to your stoic videos and not others.
It’s very courageous to share something that personal. Congratulations on your first steps of healing! Cutting of a narcissist is the only way to survive, now, you are still angry, it’s ok, it’s normal, it’s human, continue healing, talk about it as much as you feel like it, you are not alone. Fetch deep inside of you, you will find everything you need to move on.
WALK AWAY ! End the cycle and cut contact put boundaries emphatically, the only best way to deal with energy suckers.
Most importantly is, choose your battles and only go through when it yields to a better outcome. Sometimes confrontation is necessary.
For other people who are stuck and can't walk away instantaneously from an emotionally draining situation, endure till you get more able & independent, then never look back !
Changing your situation to avoid toxic people isn't always that easy to do. Especially in work. Trying to find a better job is almost impossible
Thanks for sharing your personal story. I know this type of person all too well. You made the best choice, and left the relationship. Narcissists will never change because they never do anything wrong and nothing to apologize for. “You must be too sensitive”
“You must have misheard me, that’s not what I said”
The worst people in the world to have to deal with.
Nasty gaslighting
Just got out of a relationship with one and it's been about a week and I slowly feel my energy returning even tho I've been hard at it in the gym and fitness.
I cut off my relationship with my narcissist mother in 2019. Although it has gotten better, the ruminating is the worst part. We have more in common with others than we know. I do like practicing stoicism..it helps. Good luck to you👍🏼🌎☀️💙
Practicing stoicism is the only way to mentally survive an encounter with narcissists.
I just got out of a relationship and trying to heal from my narcassist ex that was terrible and live with my mother who is a narcassist its God awful.
@@daeclipse03God awful?
Who the hell are you?
You got here the same way everyone else did. Made by lust.
I am in agony while letting my narcissist brother go. It helps to know I am not alone. Thanks for your work.
Love the animations!! Thank you for another awesome video :)
I'm so grateful for this channel. Sometimes I question whether I'm intolerant, or whether there really are a lot of unpleasant, narcissistic people out there. I seem to encounter a lot of them and it makes me feel very drained. I spend most of my time alone. My best friend was my beloved cat but she very sadly passed away. Sometimes I wonder whether to become a recluse with animals, but I do like the company of good, kind, warm people who are respectful, insightful and fun to be with. I've been trying out different social groups and I have encountered some good people but domineering unpleasant types tend to take over the groups, especially if they have zoom events (through Meetup). I'm going to try out some more in person groups. One slight positive is it makes me really appreciate my own company more and find peace in it.
I have limited my contact with my father due to the abuse I went through as a kid.
There comes a point when you realize that enough is enough and that you are under no obligation to continue anything that brings you harm in the long run. Watching this made me realize that I used to believe that I was entitled to a good father who will help me realize myself and build me up, but watching this made me realize that I am not.
Perfect timing because I'm dealing with difficult times recently
May your path lead to better days!
Same story with me. I have a narcissist father, tried all my childhood to show him my success, even started a company, won a national competition... but nothing was good enough. I have eventually given up and stopped putting energy into futile attemps.
This is very good description of how the action of retaliation will taint a good person. However it is okay to defend yourself. So the difficult balance lies in how to remain calm and still rise to your own defence. Or rather to not leave your own house every time there is smoke there, but not let the smoke maker inside. Or get them out. While staying in control of your perceived injury. I think I came full circle and now I have the answer. It's a perception change. These things these smoke makers do aren't injury to you, but to the persons making the smoke. However your house is your temple so by allowing them to stay and you to leave would be giving up you position as the temple's maintenance and bouncer guy. So there lies the answer is it's your job to keep the temple clean of bad air and morale. It always starts within ourselves of course. However handling clear bad behaviour with a professionalism of a butler rather than hot headed bouncer will be a difference of night and day.
Well said
Perfect wording !!!
Let’s be honest. We are the difficult people at times. By telling stories about these ‘other severely difficult people’ we try to ignore our own capacities for bad actions.
Yes my thoughts too. It's like complaining about all the traffic which delays your journey, forgetting that you're part of the traffic too.
We've all annoyed someone by our behaviour, even those occasions where we went out of our way not to and end up puzzled at others reactions.
Exactly. I always think this when someone talks about dealing with narcissists or how narcissists/toxic people are everywhere etc.. as if we don’t all have those tendencies to some degree.
My revelation has never excluded my defects or bad acts or poor choices for which I have never blamed my mother or father - in fact, taking full responsibility for my own life gave me the clarity to end my association with criminals (who happened to be family). I even found a therapist who was on board with NOT blaming my family while acknowledging there were some glaring gaps in my understanding of how to be a good citizen (i.e. paying taxes, being a good neighbor, managing my business - even etiquette like attending weddings, interacting with co-workers, going to a community event).
I do not complain about them either - even if I am tempted - because I know better and yet I wrote what I did here because it would have meant so much to me to know going No Contact was a valid option.
While I agree that focusing too much on the defects of others can leave us blind to our own faults, there certainly can be an imbalance of wrongs committed by one person onto another. The key, I believe the stoics would agree, is looking at these situations from the position of absolute responsibility over one’s own actions and not over others. Calling someone a narcissist might be cathartic for a moment, but if you find yourself constantly surrounded by narcissists wherever you turn, you may be guilty of projecting. It is incredibly difficult because sometimes the people who you trust the most, parents or partners, may use that good faith as a way to mistreat you by gaslighting I.e. comparing the relatively small negative actions you commit and equating them with glaringly disrespectful behaviour. Again, it really comes down to self-knowledge and accountability
Narcissists nowadays are like a***** no one is one but everyone seems to know one, or 2, or 3 or " my entire family".
Whenever I find myself blaming someone for something, I go search my memory and most times find a moment I acted similarly myself. When I ponder on why, it was always as a defence mechanism. Never directly intented against someone else. This practice sure helps me keep in mind that no one can act above their level of consciousness. Just as we can t wake up a dead, person we cannot force someone into conscious acting, and it's just not personal, I don't need to struggle trying to change them nor hurt over their actions. I equally hope people don't suffer too much from my unconscious acts and try to remain mindful.
Well, I’m a daughter of a narcisist mom and by now she was able to drain the last drops of my energy. I had such potencial but year by year “smelling this smoke” all things were destroyed. My social and romantic life, my little peace at home, my work and now I’m sick, on psychiatric treatment and investigating a possible heart arrhythmia at only 37. My sister commited suicide years ago. I have no money or strength to get out even though I know I need. I inhaled too much smoke that I can’t even stand. I’m on the floor and my only chance is to get rescued by someone or I’ll just be there agonizing until I die… 😢
Save yourself sister
unfortunately you will have to realise nobody is coming to save you except yourself as it is nobody elses job.
no hunky fireman is going to bust through the door and throw you over his shoulder and take on your problems.
only then will you get out. a bit like drunks or drug addicts, they have to seek help themselves, they have to want out. you cant do the work for them.
No one can save you, only yourself. Get up and move away, help will come then, if you seek it.
🌺How you doing?! I hope you were able to get away and living happily elsewhere.
Yeah how to make a go of it when weakened w illness and no money. good thoughts n prayers r w you.. 🕊️🙏💖✨✨
As someone with a similar parent I can relate. I love the example with smoke in a room as you can always choose to not react and just leave if it becomes unbearable. Until then you can try to keep a healthy distance to the source of smoke.
I like your content and also read your book, so have this little thank you at this point
musical greetings from a fellow contemporary and try-to-be stoic
Thank you! I appreciate it!
Thank you for sharing your personal story about your father as it's identical to mine and resonated profoundly.
My dad is also an undiagnosed narcissist. So, that part is truly appreciated and relatable. I have been in actual pain for a few months now, dealing with my demons of trying to justify leaving him and feeling guilty for not continuing to be a good child in his life. So, stoics are right when they say going against your virtues is a way of injuring yourself. This is becoming a comfort channel for me.
I have a similar situation with my father whom I havent spoken with for months and I was also shunned by most of my family due to idealogical reasons. Whether its family or any person in general, specifically those that are jealous haters, the best way I learned to handle this and, in a sort of way have revenge, is to focus on me and live my life happily. I went after my goals right after all this happened. It was painful at first but I released it and the rest of it served as fuel to reach my goals. Though I have a feeling they'll think I'm using this success as revenge now that you mention it.
Your last statement made me smile 😂❤!
Thank you for making your previous video about loneliness. I think it’s one of your best and most honest videos on the channel. Please continue making videos 💙🤝🏽
Accepting reality takes a little bit of humility. We are all weak and inadequate one way or the other. We all have bad days and some times bad life. Can't blame people if they are anti-social and am not surprised that we all are in some way. Over the years, with countless failures and still failing though diminishing in terms of dealing with unpleasant people, I've come to accept the unpleasant people and unpleasant episodes from myself as a by product like feces and urine is to the body. It just is. The important thing is how much I can wash away all the things I find repulsive in myself. Let the others worry about themselves. It's their problem.
Agreed, the universe itself is a place filled with ''bad'' or ''harmful'' things and events, but without these, the ''good'' things and events would not be possible. Take our sun for instance, it really is a just matter of distance and how strong your planets atmosphere is which determines if the sun is good or bad. Without people display bad behaviour, most of us would never feel the need to look at ourselves and reflect to see if we too sometimes display bad behaviour. And without misfortune we absolutely would not have stoicism.
Ways to deal with a narcissisic loved one:
**Be honest about their behavior.**
Dont let them convince you that what they're doing is good when it clearly is not.
**Separate admirably.**
Weither it's by your choice or theirs, space and time is almost always needed.
**Leave room for possibility.**
While it may work out better to completely cut them out of your life, it is wiser to leave them an opening to return as long as they:
• Apologize honestly for their previous behavior,
• State *AND* show they they are willing to kill their ego (be less or no longer narcissistic)
**Forgive, but never forget.**
Allowing them to fix the issues they've caused is a healthy path to recovery, however if they start up bad habits, be honest and upfront with them.
the best course of action would be to be indifferent. as if you think about someone's good side someday you will remember how bad they are when they do something bad again and it will just continue in a cycle(i was doing this for quite a lot of time some days i will be like no they are good and someday i wish the worst upon them). the best path is of indifferent towards their bad and good behaviour and do what you want without the sense of getting revenge.
As difficult as it is, none of us are entitled to common decency or even common sense from others. We all must accept the potential for good and bad in interacting with others.
Yes! We are as much entitled to their malice as we are their kindness.
This is such a wonderful video - thank you so much for making it! I myself cut off all contact with my mother in 2017, for very similar reasons to yourself and your father. For five years I was free of her stressful behaviour, until last year when she died. She had alienated all of her family and so no-one was left to deal with her apartment after she died. I eventually had to go do it because there was no choice and it just opened up old wounds, due to having to go through her life’s possessions. I have gone through stages of feeling guilt because she literally died alone, which no-one deserves, however I could not have been a part of her life, due to the hurt and stress she caused. Such a dilemma!
I guess my only piece of advice would be to make yourself fully unreachable from a hurtful family member, so that when they pass away, it cannot be made your responsibility to pick up their pieces 😢
Jackson Browne said, "In the end there is one dance you'll do alone." (For A Dancer). It's unavoidable so forgive yourself. Peace.
You did the right thing! Dont beat yourself up you did the best thing for you at the time nothing wrong with choosing better for yourself! Her decisions led her there, I can tell youre a kind soul with a good heart dont blame yourself or anyone for this and always remember your not alone! The hardest part is always letting go.
Naomi, I teared up reading your comment. I cut off contact with my mother about a month ago for the same reasons (narcissistic behavior throughout my life). She's now in her mid-70s. I can't fathom what it will be like when she passes.
@@rumpeldumpel675 thank you for your kind comment! All I can say is that you’ve made the right choice, no-one should feel like they have to put up with that sort of behaviour, even from their own parent. I don’t regret my decision, but I won’t lie, it’s taking me a long time to try to stop feeling guilty for her having literally no-one when she died. With that being said, it was of her own doing, she pushed everyone who cared for her away and I cannot imagine I’d have wanted to be there with her towards the end. The years of hurt she caused couldn’t have been undone, even in her dying days.
@@rainmanjr2007 thank you for your kind words, such a poignant quote 💕
You will never know how much you have helped me. You saved a big part of my soul. I cant thank you enough.
""If you wouldn't let a stranger into your house for fear of invadiing your privacy, why would you let them into your head, the most private place of all?""
If someones behaviour accumulates so much force against you, it pushes you away. It's natural. So you leave which creates more room and loosens the tension. From that place, the opposition might even dissipate over time, or at least it can weaken. If we stay, we might only create more tension which won't do any good.
I like to see you adding some personal experiences in your videos lately. It makes them much more impactful. Thanks for the wisdom 🙏🏼
DITTO !!!
With narcissists is important to recognise the signs early and plan your earliest escape out of there. If stuck due to your job etc, keep police records. Don't take it personally and don't try to change them. .You are just one of a string of many. They cannot change, although may pretend they can to hoover you in.
When he talked about his personal experience I felt like this channel really is so connected. We all go through things & we all seek knowledge here. Thank you for sharing your story!
I remember being about 35 and completely cutting my mom out of my life for a few weeks. It's a bit traumatic to think about now, bc I wouldn't let her have contact with her grandson bc I was so hell-bent on vengeance and "showing her". That was particularly cruel to my son & my mother. Now, I'm 50 & have been able to repair that relationship with boundaries. I'm definitely "using the handle" and the change in perspective created peace in my mind.😊
Cut mine out permanently , good thing she isnt my real mother.
@@AwakenedAvocado My point was that you never know what will happen as you age..
@@heathernks8 you hve no idea how helpful your comment was-thank you.
It takes a shift in perspective & age-stage of life, had this wth my father after I had a lot of therapy & him stepping up in a different way at a difficult time in my life-a confluence.
Am happy for you & your child you child that this shift happened.
Happened for me in mid-late 30’s & 40’s.
I just realized that many bright people honed their intellect and self discipline to prove themselves in an environment that ultimately turned out to be hostile to noble pursuits. Outside that system, perhaps only in a person's own heart, the effort is beneficial. Of course, not having been in adversity is to be preferred.
My father is also symptomatic of grandiose narcissism. Depositing me and my mother and sister in a town, starting up another family, and another. Endless gas lighting over his violence and selfishness. It’s sickness that requires quarantine, you did the right thing disconnecting from yours.
My mother is a narcassist and my now ex girlfriend as well. Worst and shortest relationship I've ever been in. Had the courage and enough knowledge to recognize it and leave just as the anger was showing its face.
I agree, but instead of leaving I turn ever more inward and focus on my own self. Not being selfish but tending, and defending my own mind. Do not react to anything they put out there and trust urself at it's correct that positivity will will out .
I worked in an ER in a large city. I found the smelly, filthy street people more preferable than the general entitled public. When my father died I was relieved.
Some homeless people can be very kind and understanding
Some of the most humblest and givingness people are usually the poor
My mother was a narcissist. So was my brother. They have both passed. What a relief.
Einzel, I love how pain makes you a source of wisdom for others.
Outstanding video, it is very courageous of you to share your struggles with your father. I hope that on day that relationship will be repaired and restored.
I'm sorry to hear about relationship with your father. I have a similar situation with mine, but my kids are pretty much my mom and dad's only connection to the outside world, so I allow visits, but keep my interactions to a minimum. It's tough.
Excellent video and very honest assessment of your personal challenges. The truth is some people just aren’t reachable. I know that I can only control my own mind - not someone else’s… and logic/reason rarely works with these folks. They have to learn the hard way and in so being are a gift. They are a gift because they demonstrate to everyone else around them what to never be. Their folly serves as a teachable moment to others- maybe even to themselves if they hit rock bottom.
Thanks for being a positive aspect in the circus of facades where perceptions can be many!
My dad has NPD too. But I have no choice but to stay with him for a couple more years. Theses videos help me so much. Thanks for doing what you do. 😊
Hang in there ❤
Epictetus’ statements on revenge are… unfortunately, only something I realise the truth of after the fact.
Revenge and retribution are so short-lived that I am often left wondering if I ever considered my retribution fully realised; and that’s the thing with trying to attain retribution for a time that someone has caused you harm - through betrayal or otherwise - it’s a hit, not a contentment.
I did not feel better after trying to get back at the person who hurt me many, many years ago, but I have learned now that the best thing I could have done would have been to be at peace with the world and how it is, and understand that some people are they way they are and that it doesn’t say something (maybe, anything at all) about me.
Thanks for sharing this video.
I think in general, most people have gone through trauma with their parents, as the system is so Evil, it is designed to create these personalities, to cause division and anxiety. Since a young boy I had one re-occuring thought 'how can we break the generational cycle, that causes these divisions' But that was from a view point it is was a natural phenomenon. It's not, all these damaging traits have been reflected back to us through our peers and elders, which proves we are just a product of our environment. Once we can understand this, we can stop reflecting this dull, artificial light and be our own source. That sincerity, and openness is a revelation, a guide and relief to others, I believe
This is simply the basis of materialism marxist theory.
Well said
That is where I am at with my son. As painful as it is making that decision it was necessary. I will always be there in giving wisdom and guidance, which he never took anyway, but when he runs into trouble because of his poor decisions I am completely done trying to bail him out.
Let your child learn but don’t leave them in the dark when they get in trouble. Guide them to the light and do meditation as punishment. Then they will be forced to self reflect on things and eventually see your perspective.
Enabling is very dangerous. As I watch evil lives here on The Discovery Channel codependent relationships and enabling bad behavior by making excuses for them, leads to the parent wife getting murdered or hurt very badly.❤
Ты плохой родитель
Он не спрашивал совета.
Ты навязывал ему свои советы.
Он оказался в беде ты отвернулся от него.
Родитель это тот кто всегда поможет в беде. Это первое.
Нельзя давать советы если не просят. Это второе.
Ты бы у него спросил - можно тебе дать совет.
Он не твоя собственность.
Он живет свою жизнь.
Он пришел в этот мир не для того что бы соответствовать твоим ожиданиям.
Он будет делать ошибки и ты от этого его не спасешь.
Это его жизнь.
Если ты хочешь что бы он делал все как ты говоришь, то в итоге получишь безвольное зависимое от других существо.
Единственное что ты должен ему дать это уверенность в себе.
Если он будет уверен в себе, он будет делать ошибки и после этого он будет знать что он классный и он со всем справиться.
Недослушал, вот и молодец. Значит у него есть свое мнение.
Это его жизнь и не надо ни кого слушать. Не им ее жить.
Если он вляпался помоги ему. Но при этом он сам должен понять и вынести урок. А не ты ему капать на мозги, что ты его предупреждал.
@@olliestrees5602 I agree with.
@@moonsun3821 sounds like you have a lot of resentment in that area yourself.
To use your words. «Не капай ему в мозги»
Так ты не лезь с советами другим особенно, об отношениях с детьми.
Иди воспитывай своих а не учи других как жить.
Лицемерие читать лекцию точно тем же тоном за которое упрекаешь другого!!
Сам буть примером того что проповедаешь.!
Really great video! Thanks for highlighting your personal struggles with your father and the juxtaposition between living Stoic philosophy and managing the pain of having someone close to us repeatedly inflict emotional and mental damage. I think having healthy boundaries and refusing someone access to our lives coalesces quite well with Stoic philosophy as we are utilizing Wisdom, Courage, and Justice in the act of doing so. We can be prosocial and forgive those that harm us without spending time with them. Cheers!
I am humbled and appreciate the opportunity to change. Keep up the good work 👍
Narcissists are far more common than most people realize. Most difficult people are narcissists and it is crucial to learn how to recognise them and minimise their energy draining effect on your life. HG Tudors channel is highly recommended for this purpose.
The whole 3% 5% thing is sheer nonsense most normies must wits npcs are barcassists and losers and hate rule followers
I needed this reminder.
It’s another bit of the stoic philosophy that is an obvious statement of existence, yet that human folly forgets because it is so obvious.
Thank you.
Edit: Also, your description of your father reminds me of my younger self. Before I decided to take my own journey for growth and healing.
Interesting. Makes me want to compare my old self with the DSM-5 now. Just to answer my minds curiosity.
The revenge part is interesting. You keep the ball to attain your own happiness entirely in their court that way.
You re killing it bro, big hug from uruguay
I honestly shed a few tears while you mentioned your personal experience with your father. Basically, without knowing the details, I felt very attached to what yoh have said there. I also feel heavily relieved in a certain way, listening to your videos and reading about stoicism, which always had a fundamental place in my life through school and university the more I think about it. People even misjudge certain related attributes as "You just do not care." yet reality is: I do. I do care, I take care for myself, which is the only true thing I actually can do, while others can only do so as well." Working in a field of education and the general social sector with (difficult) children, parents and not often co-workers as well, its tough to find a place, yet I have a (although still far) goal ahead of me, which I might reach one day - thanks to some of these lectures.
Thank you again for sharing these. You are helping and I wish you the strenght and patience you might seek and need to overcome whatever struggle you might face.
I'm very grateful for your channel, and greatly appreciate your personal disclosure. I come from the cluster B swamp as well. Stoicism has become an important tool for my mental health.
cluster B swamp, i love the descriptor, and so do i .
Is that something like The Group W Bench from Arlo Guthry?
@@joannaedwards6325 Cluster B personality disorders: Narcissistic, Borderline, Histrionic, and Antisocial disorders.
Thank you! Nice to see that Stoicism helps.
Thank you for sharing the part about your dad ❤️
Perfect timing, someone stole my seat in class even though they knew I sit there. Now Im stuck sitting at the front next to someone who stinks. Also its a class full of rude assholes who wont shut the hell up during lecture and stop playing on their phones. This is honestly what Im dealing with today, thanks.
You'll be stronger after this situation
Stay strong. I put myself in a focused state where I block out everything around me and only focus on the important task at hand. Hard to do but hang in there. Just gotta make it thru that one moment is how you take it.
@@daeclipse03 yeah its hard to concentrate when you’re frustrated and annoying.
You need to move classes.
just skip the class or leave school...or make your chair nasty so no one would actually sit there ....
This is one of my favorite TH-cam channels - no question
The first thing to do with ourselves is to heal our wounds by looking at our entire life. We have to see both the hurts we received but also the one we did to other. By realizing the hurts we did and trying after to apologize and if possible to repair the damage we did it will be easier after to forgive to others by judging them less severely. Becoming humble and wiser is the best way to see the reality of things without all the over emotional reactions associated to them.
After that dealing with suffering people like narcissists or crazy people because easier. Nevertheless to let space between toxic people and you is a good strategy as soon as you are sure that THEY are the problem and you’re are aware that you’re not going away to escape from…yourself .
My only problem is how do you deal with jerks you live with and you can’t afford to leave
I try to ignore the best I can delicate situations with difficult people, because in the end, it's not worth our energy. Years of isolation and lots of reading have helped me a lot.
Thank you for sharing your story!!
Man... Thanks for getting personal. I was wondering why you click with me so well - because of the similar upbringing. Putting the narcissist's implemented inner self-sabotage voice to healthy perspective where it belongs was hard, but it made me stronger. And you helped with that a great bunch. Thank you.
Thank you for your personal stories.
11:50 that’s very amazing you’re saying this because my mom is a complete narcissist. That’s why I’m going to the Air Force to be fully financially free. She will do anything to be in control even to the point of possessing any bills that I have and trying to have a degree of ownership over my liabilities and assets. She withholds Information and pathologically lies and gaslights as well as verbally abuse you without restraint. She’s on the verge of having her 4th divorce and I’m not even surprised. I had a narcissistic friend as well but he’s been cut off for over a year now, best decision I’ve ever made.
I want to thank you for your understandable philosophy content for me As a person who is not a fluent or native English speakers,
It somehow really simple to understand, not to much babbling, Thankyou for this quality
Just left a narcissist a few months ago and still trying to heal. I dont wish one of those relationships on my worst enemy.
Edit: i live with my mother who i think is a narcassist. Treated me terrible my entire life and is always super angry or ready to blow up at the most miniscule things at a moments notice. Exhausting to be around such an energy drain. Im in the process of leaving and will also be going no contact at that point.
Good for you. Wishing the best🙏💙
you have made the right decision. my farmgirl naive mother is sad that her three brothers aren't "getting along". It's much, much deeper than that: behind my back gaslighting and dipping deep into the family legacy, with ALL family members never including me. I'm done. I accept, and I'm moving on. I have not brothers. It's easier since neither has progeny, so I'm not impacted by having to deal with cutting other people off.
Stay strong and don't go back or the abuse will start again, don't give her your phone number, etc. keep ignoring her if she makes contact
wish you the best