WWSD: Pencil Barrel and Carbon Fiber Free Float Tube
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- We've gone through all the testing we needed to do and we're now "officially certifying" the Faxon barrel and carbon fiber free float tube as a confirmed part of our WWSD rifle builds.
In this video we discuss why we chose these components, our experiences with them so far and why they belong in the WWSD concept.
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I love how Karl is constantly 100% energy and angry at some unseeable force
Rawr
He has BDE
Lol! That is a true observation very well described! 👍🏼🤣
@@joemoment-o1275 I bought one. They're garbage. Skinnier than faxon, much more flimsy, they don't lock down and they're inconsistent. The only way you can actually keep it in position is soak the barrel nut in rocksette. But then if anything happens to the handguard you have to cut it off. If you look at the barrel nut area, there's a flimsy little ring that you thread the other way than the handguard. That is the only locking system. It sucks. Please don't waste your money. If you're going you buy a carbon fiber tube just get the faxon
@@Armadurapersonal Big Direct impingement Energy
The main advantage of carbon fiber vs aluminum isn't so much heat storage as conductivity.
What would mikhail kalashnikov do 2018?!?
The same thing he did in 47 but with titanium
Like a scaled down titanium reciever SVD in 6.5 grendle
Yessss!
AK-12 and AK-15 ( 7,62x39mm of AK12 ) ?
It would probably look like the new AK-12. Which is a fine rifle, really.
The original M-16's were light and super fast to handle and get on target. The only problems I had in Vietnam were: 1., the damn ammo loaded with Olin ball powder, 2., The lack of cleaning kits or cleaning supplies....
The powder would be a non-issue with the A1s heavier buffer, and it's included cleaning kit.
One Doomed Spacemarine
But especially the A1's chromed internals and military size chamber
In the mean time , however, soldiers were dying with rifles stripped down beside them, or with a rod stuffed down the barrel trying to free stuck cases.
You mentioned about adding weight to the barrel for heat absorption. Lt. Col. Lutz actually has stated that the main reason he increased the weight of the barrel profile was that the barrels were bending during bayonet practice, rappelling, airborne operations, and people using the rifle as a pry bar to open crates with the bayonet. No mention of the barrels overheating was made as far as I'm aware.
still the barrel will and has bend during sustained fire. But it is known for the idiots of the time to use the rifles bayonet ( when and when not attached) to pry open supply crates in field and even when in the fobs.
If memory serves, LTC Lutz found that the majority of the reports of A1 barrels failing the barrel straightness gauge was because of copper sediment pooling in eroded gas ports. However that hypothesis was only tested after the TDP for the A2 was done and contracts were signed, so they just stuck with it. Civilian Colt products stuck with thinner profiles until the bull barrel malarkey became a thing.
I asked a friend of mine about overheating. He said he went into a bunker complex and did "8 mag dumps" and it "seemed fine"? LOL.
@@johnL-xk2js "Seems fine" and "is fine" are not necessarily the same.
@@ViktoriousDead What a dumb comment.
Just finished my own door kicker rifle using the Faxon 14.5 "gunner" barrel with muzzle brake, weights 5.75 lbs naked down from 7.25 lbs.
Bigbore noice
I'm going back through some of the videos while reconsidering the barrel on my build. It's wild seeing everything with the old Cav2 lowers, among other things. Man what a time then, and now. Thanks for everything you've done Karl
In Range Seal of Approval TShirts!
Yes!
Giovanni Battista Ponzetto for marksmanship?
Came here to say this lol
Now that we've taken the platform to its modern evolution...
InRange 2018: What Would Bergmann Do?
(In fun, Ian, I enjoyed the Bergmann stuff 😄)
What would Bergmann do? Shit himself.
Hi Point
I'm here because WWSD2020
I just weighed my ar. My unimaginable frustration when it is .6 pounds short of 10 with a loaded mag...
What brand/model is it?
@@MiamiVice. Pretty sure that was just my standard carbine with a ras handuard.
@@GruntBurger ah yes, the quad. The weight bomb
I've been doing some math on the rifle's weight. For Karl's build: Complete lower 28oz, Upper 6oz, BCG 11oz, Barrel 19oz, Handguard/Nut 8oz, Gasblock/Tube 2oz. Total 74oz. That's 4.6lbs! Am I missing something here? That's incredible.
the sight
"Ounces make Kilos" - Coop772
Caboose 92m I never expected to see anything about coop772 here
How many ounces are there in a kilo? Something like 32, yes?
The one thing to be careful with is how light your free float handgaurd is. Generally speaking, the lighter it is, the more flexible it is. That can be a problem if you plan on attaching aimng devices (back up front sights or laser aiming modules).
These guys get it right! I'm a Reagan-era soldier, so I'm biased, but I agree that the -A1 build was the best rifle, kinda like the original Ford Mustang...
Mud test WWSD coming up? haha
It's an AR15 system. What is there to learn from that at this point? ~K
Ex Libris a tad bit redundant considering they've tested so many different ar-15s that have worked flawlessly
it was not a serious suggestion big K, more a reference to your highest viewed videos and how I wish this project had more visibility.
you gotta put those trigger groups to the test
@@InrangeTv That cleaning mud out of a rifle really sucks, no matter how lightweight it is?
Love the channel, really,..
I get what you guys were doing, but I’m Quite sure “Stoner” would have gone only with 308...
Look at what “Stoner” Actually did..
308 is obsolescent.
And you need to keep in mind that Stone would work with current ammunition and technologies when developing an M16 today.
@@InrangeTv Maybe. 6.5 Creedmoor sure isn't. The AR-10 isn't nearly as 'handy' as the AR-15 size, though.
He would probably consider 6.5 grendel over the 308
I have a faxon pencil 16”, very accurate tight groups for 50 rounds. Then they spread and shift 1” up and 2” right. I have a BCM SOCOM profile 14.5” that is as accurate with a cold barrel and stays that way after 300 rounds of rapid fire.
It makes me smile that Ian is wearing a Rifle Dynamics tee while discussing WWSD.
I cant help but wonder why they didnt go with the gunner profile barrel. its still pretty light and gives a good bit more heat resistance
I’ve been trying to find the 18” Faxon pencil barrel, but I don’t see it on their website or listed on any retailer websites. They list 10.5”, 14.5”, and 16” pencil barrels in 5.56, but they do not list an 18”. Can you confirm if this is indeed the barrel you used, or did you use a similar profile such as the “gunner” profile? Thanks!
did you ever find an answer? I am wondering the same thing.
All they have in an 18" 5.56 is the gunner profile. Its a little thicker from the gas block area back but pencil profile forward of the gas block.
what would stoner and kalishnikov do? team up together at kel tec? :) seriously though, i wonder if stoner would like .300 blackout?
I was a Canadian Infantryman. We only shot our rifles on full-auto a few times in training. They told us right from the start that we were expected to select our targets individually and eliminate them as they came up. Don't shoot full-auto was the basic message. I learned to shoot in three round bursts, but it's not a common occurrence in the Canadian Infantry. We select targets, then hit them. I kind of wish they'd free-floated the barrels, I experienced a lot of drift as a result of hot barrels. I'm pretty sure I'd have been a more efficient shooter if my barrel was wasn't attached to the handguards. My brothers accuracy suffered as a result; they're both in the Armed Forces.
It'd be OK by me if they adopted an updated version of the C7. Change is good! It's a proven weapons system, so that's cool. The only other real change they could make is the switch to a caseless rifle, but I don't see that happening any time in the near future!
I used to work with composites and the carbon hand guard should, well crush the aluminium ones in a crush test.
I don't quite agree that a free float barrel is an absolute must. Sure, the barrel no longer has pressure potentially changing your point of aim with iron sights. But I have never had it shift so much that I couldn't hit what I was shooting at with a regular handguard. Even then, if the front sight is mounted on the handguard, then that is still potentially being manipulated by pressure from your hand. So you will likely still not have absolute accuracy unless you mount the front sight post on the barrel itself. Having an optic is a different story. But even then, I can still hit targets beyond 300m with an optic and a regular captive handguard. I love what you guys did with this project. But if you guys are willing to accept a shift in point of aim for the sake of having a pencil barrel, then why is it a big deal for me to choose to keep a basic handguard on an M4 profile or heavy barrel? It doesn't really shift that much, even on support. I understand what you are saying. I like free floats. But my favorite rifle has a Magpul MOE carbine hanguard. It just reminds me of the rifles I was issued in active duty. I love the feel of it while still being able to mount basic essentials like lights, slings, and still being able to use grips/hand stops. Not knocking free float. I definitely like certain ones. But I don't need an excuse to choose not to buy a pricey handguard when I do just fine with the old system. Still, love your stuff. This series actually did help me build my favorite rifle.
The modern ones may be much more practical, but the one in the middle is just gorgeous. It's a classic in a way you normally only get with wood and steel.
Retro ARs get the Rule of Cool pass.
How does the low profile Faxon flash hider perform? Does it make any "tuning fork" noise when shooting?
This is like watching 2 Toyota guys talking about how awesome the 2JZGE or 1UZFE engines are where neither of them can bring up any negatives without the other having a reason why that's okay and that they are still the best engines EVER made!
Haha, love seeing these in retrospect because I'm getting close to getting a lower with the DMR trigger and putting a build of my own together. Great rifle guys! Sad it's not getting more attention in the TH-cam world, or at least not as much attention as it should be getting!
It's about time we got another WWSD! More deep dives !
Heavy match bullets do better than FMJ, but they are nowhere near the best choice for terminal performance. They have a shorter ballistic neck than SS109 (4-5" vs. 6-8") and more material to fragment into, but they are still yaw dependant. That means you still have inconsistent performance, the ballistic neck ist still longer than you would want it to be and fragmentation range is shorter than you might expect. Most modern bullet designs are not yaw dependant, with means they stay nose forward while penetrating soft tissue, resulting in a very short ballistic neck (about 1 or 2"), consistent performance, and much longer effective ranges. Some of those bullets expand (bonded softpoints, monolithic hollowpoints like the TSX) and some fragment (M855A1, MK318...). For military use, fragmenting desings are less controversial than expending ones, due to stupid regulations that were made up more than a hundres years ago...
Fudoh1 I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume that if these guys were gonna shoot meat, they use bullets designed to do so. But they don't shoot meat on a regular basis, and to paraphrase Jeff Cooper, "only accurate ammo is interesting", so they'll shoot match heavies. If one did want to shoot meat, I'd want a heavy mag length expanding bullet. If the military could have their way, they'd shoot a reliably feeding, expanding (or explosive) bullet too; but alas as you mentioned, the decision makers still honor an anachronistic treaty this nation never signed.
Those stupid regulations meant a bunch of troops in all armies got to go home alive, rather than in a box looking like a street pizza (cat hit by a car). If "terminal ballistics" was the important thing...long ago there were some bullets developed that left horrific, shattering wounds with little chance for survival. The original 55gr AR bullet with the early 1:14 twist rate cause bullets shot into the belly to exit the top of the head, in the average sized Vietnamese.
I love the dd fixed a1.5 sights use them with my aimpoint
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, even if your zero doesn’t shift, won’t pencil barrels get hotter faster than say a midweight, and therefore the throat and bore wear faster?
when I served in the Army, I was issued the A2. I loved the burst function, it was controlable, and long range accuracy in semi was excellent with the heavy barrel....my rifle also had the grenade launcher which was useful also......
Robin Snodgrass Any time you think, "I should dump my mag right now," just fire the grenade instead. :P
jtfroh the m203 was a fine addition for sure!
As someone that spent a fair amount of (my spare) time researching the M16A2 for a couple of AR-15 builds with my dad (who was issued the A1 and prefers it over all other variants, provided you don't hand him an M14), I have to say that there are a lot of things about the A2 that people don't seem to pay much attention to or know much about why it is the way it is. I did a bunch of digging and found out that the sights are nearly target grade because that's what the Marines wanted (the Army wanted to keep the A1 style sights), while the stock got longer and the pistol grip gained the 'bump' because those were things the Army wanted (actually the Army wanted full finger grooves, but the Marines said no). While they did look at beefing up the barrel to fix the heating issues, the barrel that became the standard isn't any thicker under the handguards than an A1 barrel, so really they beefed up the barrel from the gas block forward. There are two reasons why they did it this way: one, they didn't want to have to buy all new M203 grenade launchers or at least new mounting fittings for them, and two, the Marines were bending barrels forward of the gas block during bayonet practice. I've always found it a bit silly when people say that the A2 barrel was an attempt to fix the heating problem when it's still the same as an A1 barrel for about 2/3s of its length. I do have to admit, I like features from both versions and my 'idealized' rifle would be a hybrid using a modern A1 type barrel with A2 sights, Magpul furniture (fixed stock, because I'm old-fashioned), and a full chrome bcg because I've found it the easiest to clean and take care of out of the various coatings and treatments I've tried.
Ex-Airborne Infantryman here: I was once told by a man in a brown round hat that what makes the M16 the most advanced weapon on the planet is that it is 3 medieval weapons rolled into one. The bullets being the arrows, the buttstock being the club and the bayonet being the spear. These medieval weapons have been the most killing instruments of warfare for more than 5000 years and he pity the fool that didn't know how to use all 3.
Until you had to slap a gomer wearing a NVA helmet and the butt stock broke. .......
This is true of a boltgun or a M1 for instance more than the 16.
11B2Papa!
@@joemoment-o1275 if he had stood still long enough to "strike inline" it wouldnt have been a problem. But he was too busy trying to stick me with a bayonet. Shrug..so I slammed his head and as he went down..I buried the flash hider in his eye to the bayonet lug. Not something they teach in basic..but it worked and allowed me to didi mau.
5:50 Ian going "wooof, wooof, wooof!" Also, the video was lacking doggies.
You guys are missing out on a big point here. The M-16 was made to be a military gun which includes keeping the price low. I could build a fantastic AR for a couple of grand but that would't be what Stoner would do. Anyway, good video guys!
Reece Lynch ironically what Stoner would do was realized with the SR-15 E3 by KAC, and it costs 2000 bucks.
Titanium Rain I disagree, the KAC rail is inferior to the CF option due to the full length rail. The modified bolt design needs independent testing to verify any of their claims and while less important the ball bearing muzzle device is a disaster waiting to happen when grit and debris get into the mechanism.
+otm646 won't disagree on that. It would be interesting if the modified bolt design was proven to be superior and became the new standard on not just ARs but all the 7-lug bolt piston guns. Not going to happen, but it would be interesting.
It makes for an interesting discussion. I have a heavy profile barrel, and it is a sub-MOA shooter with very little heat shift. Having said that, when shooting unsupported for any length of time the weight leads to wobble and tremors, which leads to decreased accuracy. Most are not going to take many supported long range shots, but it is one of the things I really like to do, so there is a balance to be struck. I'm not sure where that is, but I can tell you it is south of the weight of my rifle. I am going to partially rebuild it this winter with the goal of dropping a significant weight off the front end.
Crazy to see you two in the same room without masks now.
Odd how things have progressed to 2020.
Now we need more WWSD2020 updates!!!
I don't want to be "that guy" and argue, but I'm not sure 1:8 twist is the answer to shooting every weight with every barrel length. If you want a custom AR, you need to understand that barrel length and muzzle velocity - which is largely a matter of bullet weight - govern the correct twist rate. My rifle is designed specifically for firing 72 - 77 gr. bullets from a LONG barrel, so I had to consider my twist rate carefully. Really short barrels are also more sensitive to twist rate issues. In short, 1:8 is not the universal answer and educating yourself is important for ordering or building a custom rifle.
Would you guys consider putting carbon fiber wrapped barrels like the ones made by Proof? I feel like they would be great for your application minus the cost.
Carried an M16a1 for 9 years also had.a SP 1 but I sold it.😭
TL;DR: these two items work great for competition shooting.
I have been running an 18" Faxon GUNNER barrel (that being government profile up to the gas block (same as SP1?), and pencil including and forward of gas journal) and a round carbon fiber free float handguard for 3 gun for 2 years, and it is magic. Absolutely fantastic. Also a titanium, low-pro gas block and a pretty serious muzzle brake. Gotta mill some vent slots in my carbon fiber tube or get a new MLOK one, tho: mine's solid, save for four holes drilled near the muzzle end.
That titanium gas block dissipates heat better too. And wear a mask and long sleeves+gloves when you cut that carbon fiber. And vacuum after. That dust is nasty, it probably can give you lung cancer.
Way late, but it's medium profile iirc before the gas block, definitely not Gov profile, since that's just a pencil barrel from the gas block back.
I wonder if the POI of the SP1 "pencil barrel" shifted more when it got hot than your modern pencil barrel rifles because of the older tech of the barrel, or because your modern rifles are free floated and the SP1 is NOT? It seems to me that your test did not compare apples to apples...
@@clearly_2967 Except for the regular military rifles.
Last time someone referred to my ARs as "military-type" I took offense. It's like calling a Formula 1 car "commuter grade."
I'm currently building an A1/A2 hodgepodge clone with the triangle guard, carry handle, A2 Buttstock and original sling all of which are surplus parts. The buttstock still has cage numbers on it. The rest of the parts are very standard except for the bolt and barrel which are modern touches. I went with the Faxon 20" Gov't barrel and RCA bolt. It's nearly finished. So excited about it. The only other flare is a laser etched dust cover that says Made In USA and has a US flag both on the inside. It'll be kind of a tribute rifle.
"The InRange stamp of hubris"! 😂😂😂
Those lowers do look interesting... I think they solved strength problems by having the lower and the stock as one piece. With the same principle, do you think that a polymer lower integrated with something like the upper half of a UBR stock would work?
Michael Wang: GWACS! After their review like 5 years ago I picked up a couple lowers. Sold one, kept one, no issues with it I recommend for sure!
Can (and if you do) modern AR pencil barrels , if the bar gets hot , would urinating on the barrel help cool the barrel? ( in a firefight/war)
Yes I did it in Iraq once, wish we had IAR's back then
Hey Ian/Karl, have you guys checked out the Bttle Arms Development lightweight billet upper?
Could be another way of shaving off some weight, albeit it would be a minute amount.
I back Karl up on this. There is NO reason not to have your barrel free floated. You can still have your A2 A frame front sight block. Just get a 12.6" handguard and reinstall the front sight infront of it. It actually looks really good!
I know this video is about barrels but is there a benefit for a fixed stock over a collapsible stock or is it just preference?
If you're changing positions a lot (standing, prone etc) your eye relief changes, so in that situation a collapsible stock has significant advantages. A fixed stock can be more rigid / durable, potentially.
Perhaps collapsible stocks are useful for people of different sizes.
Collapsible stocks allow for better fitment to individuals. It also allows you to adjust the length to help with fitment for optics with short eye relief (like the ACOG). And it allows you to have a proper fit to the rifle if you are using armor. You could do any of those things with a properly fitting fixed stock; however, most people don't ALWAYS have armor on, people sometimes switch optics or sights etc and it allows the user to have one stock that allows you to switch between different uses AND shorten the gun for storage.
EDIT: it also allows for different people to use the rifle with proper fitment. For instance both me and my wife both shoot my AR-15 and she is about half my size so we use different positions on the stock.
Sam Doohan it's not so much about making adjustments on the move it's more about being able to make adjustments beforehand to fit your needs. CQB set up I choke up a bit vs long(er) range.
DyingIsMyLatestFashion
Ian is 5'11" IIRC, about average.
The main reason they went with a fixed stock is that there weren't any good polymer lowers (remember, going light) that allowed for a collapsible stock. So they picked the best poly lower they could find and it has a fixed stock.
Did you check out the brigand arms hand guard? Carbon fiber but not m-lok. Also got blown up on tannerite and stayed in one piece. Not saying that you made a bad choice. Thanks for doing this project.
If the law changed and you suddenly were allowed select fire / full auto. Would you change anything about these rifles (assuming they were suddenly full auto capable)
We'd get change the muzzle device on the 14.5" barrel thus allowing for a suppresor on the carbine. ~K
I do love the look of the triangle guard whats it like to use
What kind of MOA are people getting with the Faxon 14.5 pinned barrels? Some people were saying they weren't very good or were having quality control issues.
I just got the CF handguard because I'm a car guy and CF gives the bullets more horsepower.
Yep
While I agree that AR's should be free-floated and I have no experience with carbon, I really like a slim and lightweight aluminum free-float system. Aluminum is light and heat conductive. The latter might suck in Arizona, but I don't have that problem where I live. Instead I notice that by putting what is essentially a finned aluminum heat sink on the chamber of my gun as a handguard, my barrel cools much faster.
Jeff Acheson the chamber isn't the major heat point on an AR-15, right behind the gas block is. I've got the exact opposite problem they do here in Alaska, aluminum would be too cold, suck the heat out of your hand if your glove isn't thick enough. Oddly the carbon fiber tube would solve that problem as well.
I'd recommend Fitty%'s 2 part video on Carbon Fiber barrels. It is pretty interesting and very nicely edited in explaining how carbon fiber can be a benefit in certain designs, but detriment in other designs... For barrels that is, but the concept is there in similar ways.
Part 1: th-cam.com/video/S-MntZ_HpTU/w-d-xo.html
Part 2: th-cam.com/video/QRd5jbp-au4/w-d-xo.html
I can't agree with bayonets being obsolete. That's just no true, but of course, it depends on what you need your AR to do.
Riddle me this, why aren't Carbon Fibre Wrapped barrels viable enough alternatives? I've heard good things about the likes of 'Proof' brand barrels.
I feel this is ignoring to political reality of needing a bayonet while I agree on the free floated issue
Thanks, especially the discussion of the handguard. The issues of heat with metal handguards has been a major reason I've been leery of free-floated units.
Question: Didn't the military develop a free-float handguard that looked like the standard guards for their competition rifles?
Yes, actually. Specifically “DCM”
@@baker90338 Thanks!
Pete Sheppard they don’t make a A1 handguard though
@@baker90338 Thanks. :)
IIRC, the A1s weren't used for high-power competition; M14s were still the rifle of choice before the A2 was standardized.
Bayonets are not obsolete!
Questions about POI shift when you've got a hot barrel.
I understand that in the 60s/70s much of it was attributed to how the barrel was made and not properly stress tested/treated like modern barrels are now. Could some of that be mitigated by how the handguard and sight are mounted? Consider the following scenarios:
1) Non-free float and barrel mounted sight - barrel heats, and flex is made worse by the non free float (i.e. not optimal scenario)
2) Free float and sight mounted on the handguard - barrel flexes a bit, less than with non free float, but sights are now "off" as POA is not zeroed to the now hot barrel (i.e. worst case scenario)
3) Free float and barrel mounted sight - although the barrel is hot and flexing, wouldn't having the stress off the barrel (due to free float) have it flex less? And since the sight is mounted to the barrel, your POA is still "zeroed" since the sight is flexing with the barrel itself? (i.e. best possible scenario?)
Thanks!
Little late to the party here but how on earth are bayonets obsolete? I was fixing bayonets in CQB as little as four years ago and we have a much shorter rifle than those shown. I didn't actually get use mine but people in my section did. Its a remarkably effective bit of kit.
>never actually used mine
>great peice of kit
Pick one
@@medicsabbi3220 They were great for opening beer cans when the tabs broke off in VN
Barrels warping as they heat up is another reason why 3 or 5-shot groups are not at all a good measure of consistency.
Reverend Rabbit. 3 or 5-round groups can also mask problems like occasional variations in powder charges and bullet weight, so I wouldn't even use that to evaluate ammunition.
And speaking of fire power, when are you going to test out the Rare Breed FRT-15 trigger?
you aren't saying it but i will. if you aren't regularly training with your backup sights as well as your primary sights then don't waste the weight and money on backup sights. it's like anything else, there is no point bringing something you aren't proficient with.
mmh so it's better to aim without any sights if your main sight goes down than to aim with iron sight ? get out of here with your elitist bullshitery
@@florix7889 He wasn't being an elitist, he was simply saying there's not much point of having them if you never train with them. While I don't quite agree, it's still smart to train with them incase they ever are needed.
@@wolfgang_h3t there is a point better to have Iron sights even if you don't train on it every week than nothing at all.
@@florix7889 That's why I said I don't exactly agree with him, having irons and being untrained with them is still better than having absolutely nothing, but it doesn't hurt to train with the irons, they're there after all, might as well.
As an Armored in the Marine Corps in the 80's, I repaired and fired many A1's and A2's. The A2's were a huge improvement. 10% of our A1barrels would come back bent from parades due to Marine over tightening their slings, this never happened with A2's. The plastic butt stock and handguards were much more durable and really need replacing. A1 handguards were a nightmare. Finally, the A1's were very difficult to keep rounds on target on full auto because they were so light. I would get the A1 so hot on full auto that I have had to use the m60 mitten to just to hold the handguard.
SEMPER FI,
Brother.
I have mixed feelings of the rear sights.
My big bitch is the stock length...
U.S.M.C.1982-1986, 1988-1993
A free float handguard is something I think might help solve your barrel.
i wonder what you guys think about the proof research barrels ? they have claimed to fix the heat issues with carbine fiber barrels.
love the channel
"Tactically magnetic" may be one of the coolest phrases I've heard in a great while.
Is that a lamp made from a riot gun in the corener behind Ian...?
If you can't find stock of the Faxon free floats, Lancer makes good carbon fiber free float tubes as well. Pros and cons between the 2, neither is likely objectively better. I like the Faxon free float because the carbon fiber almost completely surrounds any of the heat areas. The Lancer free float has an exposed ring of aluminum where the assembly attaches to the upper. Bonus of the Lancer version is built in QD mounts both sides where the assembly meets the upper. Just thought I would leave a post for anyone that has the same issues I had when building an AR in that all the Faxon free floats were out of stock at the time of building.
I mounted an ATI Omni poly upper and Del-Ton 20" lightweight barrel to my KP15 lower ......it's an ALL POLYMER M16A4 CLONE that weighs
Karl the shirt you are wearing , the sleeves are short did you alter it or did it come that way ? Thank you for doing these videos .
Are you guys going to be at shot show again this upcoming January? I have the opportunity to go down with my gunsmithing school and would love to have a chance to meet you in person.
Yes, we plan to be at SHOT. We'll be posting a meet and greet on our Patreon page as things draw closer. ~K
Awesome. I will keep my eye out for it.
"This is kind of the first really practical maschinegun being issued as a standard infantery rifle."
Shure, if you forget about Sturmgewehr, AK47 and other crap nobody remembers anymore :-)
In the US maybe...
In the west where the facts were shared is what they mean. The Ak’s issuers aren’t going to share if they have issues. The stg’s management isn’t going to be listed to (for a understandable reason, but still)
Love your guy's channel. The 16" Faxon integrated flash hider Gunner barrel is only about 2oz heavier than the integrated pencil profile. Is the 2oz of extra weight even noticeable to the shooter? Just asking before I purchase would you pick the Gunner over the Pencil profile today?🙂👍
For the DMR one why not 7.62x51? I think stay to 5.56 makes senses for weight and typical engagement distances, but wanted to see if you considered it.
If I remember right the polymer lower was unavailable in .308
could these guys do a demonstration comparing the effects of a 55gr to a 77gr projectile?
Since you're mounting an IR laser, what's the IR deflection like on the handguard? Especially if you're leaning on a barrier?
I have the 556 Faxon 16" Pencil QPQ. Simply amazing.
It is. Congrats!
Are the Faxon barrels "true" pencil barrels or the "Gunner" profile?
They have both.
Any interest in making a carbon fiber lower and upper receiver? Am I dreaming with that question?
I’m not seeing the 18 inch pencil barrel on the faxon website. The closest option is a gunner profile.
classicMaxReviews if so, great. But as far as what I’m seeing, there is a difference between the pencil and the gunner barrel. But either way, I believe it will be an amazing rifle.
hit on something the best modern barrels I'm aware of and an automated hammer forged around a mandrel you not paying for a barrel you paying the bank loan the manufacturer had to take out to get the machinery. not everyone is made out of money Iain.
What would Stoner do? At a rough guess, I would say he would design a whole new weapons system. I mean, that's what he did after creating the M16!
Spud Gunn to make a cheaper M16 that didn’t infringe on patents?
routari I was thinking of the Stoner 63 weapons system initially, and then the AIWS he designed in the 80's, which I believe he held patents on himself. I'm just saying that Stoner wasn't like Hugo Borchardt, who came up with one design and refused to develop it further, he was an innovator who constantly pushed the boundaries. So I am of the opinion he would come up with an entirely new weapons system. Like I said, just a thought!
I think with today’s technology he would build an entirely different rifle.
any chance we can buy just the upper? for those of us in not such free states who are stuck with the lowers we already have?
My version of the HolyBible --
First Chapter; History of American Colonies too the American Revolutionary War
Second Chapter; Whole US Constitution
Third Chapter; Biography and creations of Samuel Colt
Fourth Chapter; Biography and creations of John Moses Browning
Fifth Chapter; Biography and creations of Eugene Stoner.
Amen.
How effective is that Faxon integrated flash suppressor?
You should try the original M16 pencil barrel into a modern free float AR and test it to see how much impact shift you get when hot for a fair comparison over the new ones. If you do, don't forget to modify the feed ramp on the old barrel.
I agree that modern iron sights have lost their way w/ windage knobs. I dont care that I need a bullet to adjust windage. I do care that sliding a rifle in a bag or across a table can adjust my windage.
Yep.
I'm not sure the M16 had an issue so much of stringing from the barrel contour, but from the non free float handguard. The A2 barrel was due to intense impacts bending the barrels.
Barrel "overheating" is a direct function of "Rounds / Time".
Steady, aimed fire will heat up a barrel, but not to the point it "glows", (or "droops" or ruptures).
Several mag-dumps in the general direction of a possible "target" is a whole different thing.
House-clearing and "street-sweeping" (CQB) are where rock 'n roll comes into play. What is a sensible combat load of 5.56 ammo, (carried in mags, in the issued pouches, NOT in cans in your back-pack)? It depends.
250 rounds? 350? Load up a soldier with twelve filled 30 round mags plus all the other "stuff" (Linked ammo for the MG, Claymore mines, grenades, radio (and spare batteries, food and water. a six pound rifle is a serious blessing. Also noting that a walk in the tropical weeds with all that hanging off your body will require the consumption of a prodigious amount of water (and electrolytes) just to stop you becoming a heat-stress casualty before lunch-time.
Another interesting note is that the barrel in the original production AR-10 is also VERY "light". This may not be at first apparent, until you pick one up.. Most obvious "distraction" is the "sleeve" over the exposed barrel at the muzzle. Under the one-piece fore-end / hand-guard, the barrel is radically "fluted". The "major" diameter of the barrel before "fluting" is not exactly skinny, but the fluting produced big axial fins, much more than mere decorative swipes with a ball-nosed milling cutter, as seen on swanky "sporting" rifles. This provides a "light" barrel with a LOT of external surface area and substantial rigidity. Pretty slick for the late 1950's.
I don't care how old this video is or how many facts and statistics you have to back up your claim that bayonets are outdated.
You, sir, are wrong.
Having a stabby-stab on the end of your boomstick is ALWAYS a good idea.
To say otherwise is blasphemy, an affront to man-kind, and hurts my feelings.
Also, bullpups are the way of the future and 3-point slings are the best.
Fight me.
during tet when I thought we'd run out of ammo, I went and got my machete.
Question for you guys. Do you think the point of impact shift on the sp1 is to as much to the barrel not being stress relieved, as it is to the barrel not being free floated? Because with the handguards being supported by the barrel a change in temperature might affect how the barrel interacts with the handguards and pulled Barrel one way or the other. Where was your free float guard the barrels allowed to heat up evenly and do whatever it needs to do is the shots are fired.
Night vision existed when the M16 was adopted. AN/PVS-2 scopes. It's why the carrying handle on the M16, M16A1, M16A2, etc. have that hole in the middle - for tightening on a NV Scope. Just saying...
I realize you may not see this comment, but I truly wish to thank you for this conversation. In the midst of this brace nonsense, I decided to change out the barrel on my upper with a previous 11.3" barrel. I found a Faxon pencil barrel for a decent price and switched it out, keeping my 11.5" Midwest Combat handguard. I was so surprised that it's actually lighter than its previous iteration. I would never have considered getting the pencil barrel before hearing this conversation (which I originally watched when you first premiered it). Thank you for all you do.
I like that the lower/stock is monolithic.
It is fantastic. Unless you have to make a California complaint rifle. For perspective, I just threw together what I will call the CAWWSD rifle and had to go with a carbon fiber fixed stock. If your unfamiliar with CA gun laws the TLDR is "fixed magazine" can have all the fun bits, non fixed can't have pistol grip/adjustable stock/flash hider. Pretty much you end up needing the stock threading to affix a contraption that allows for the rear take down pin to be quick release...ca gun laws... Good news is that with an eye watering amount of money the end result can be the same. The carbon fiber stock cost the same as a GWACs lower/stock/buffer not including the need for a lower and buffer assembly(ends up being $300 more compared to GWACs). If one was handy with plastic welding, the GWACs lower could be used with the grip chopped and replaced with a shark fin grip, but that is a lot of work. The GWACs lower does end up being better than even my setup because they are legendarily durable and strong. There are more than a few videos on the net of people doing push ups off a GWACs lower AR balanced on the pistol grip using the upper and stock as hand holds.
Do you have any longer distance shooting with these pencil barrels? I'm working on a lightweight, long range (600-800 yards), precision AR-15. Research tells me heavier barrels are typically more repeatable at distance. Any thoughts? I'm leaning toward a 20" pencil or an 18" standard profile with weight and precision in mind. I wish I would've found your videos sooner, so I would have gotten the GWACS lower. My Tennessee Arms polymer lower will work, but it is not ideal based on one of your previous Q&As.
16:00 maybe this is another reason why europeans choose AR-18 as a base over AR-15? (and fatter barrels)
Because if your rifle destroyed after dump of your combat loadout... EHHH
Especially given one of the original roles of Assault Rifle -substitute LMG and sub-machine gun when needed(example cover your MG while he moving to another position)