@@joemoment-o1275 I bought one. They're garbage. Skinnier than faxon, much more flimsy, they don't lock down and they're inconsistent. The only way you can actually keep it in position is soak the barrel nut in rocksette. But then if anything happens to the handguard you have to cut it off. If you look at the barrel nut area, there's a flimsy little ring that you thread the other way than the handguard. That is the only locking system. It sucks. Please don't waste your money. If you're going you buy a carbon fiber tube just get the faxon
I'm going back through some of the videos while reconsidering the barrel on my build. It's wild seeing everything with the old Cav2 lowers, among other things. Man what a time then, and now. Thanks for everything you've done Karl
You mentioned about adding weight to the barrel for heat absorption. Lt. Col. Lutz actually has stated that the main reason he increased the weight of the barrel profile was that the barrels were bending during bayonet practice, rappelling, airborne operations, and people using the rifle as a pry bar to open crates with the bayonet. No mention of the barrels overheating was made as far as I'm aware.
still the barrel will and has bend during sustained fire. But it is known for the idiots of the time to use the rifles bayonet ( when and when not attached) to pry open supply crates in field and even when in the fobs.
If memory serves, LTC Lutz found that the majority of the reports of A1 barrels failing the barrel straightness gauge was because of copper sediment pooling in eroded gas ports. However that hypothesis was only tested after the TDP for the A2 was done and contracts were signed, so they just stuck with it. Civilian Colt products stuck with thinner profiles until the bull barrel malarkey became a thing.
The original M-16's were light and super fast to handle and get on target. The only problems I had in Vietnam were: 1., the damn ammo loaded with Olin ball powder, 2., The lack of cleaning kits or cleaning supplies....
One Doomed Spacemarine But especially the A1's chromed internals and military size chamber In the mean time , however, soldiers were dying with rifles stripped down beside them, or with a rod stuffed down the barrel trying to free stuck cases.
I realize you may not see this comment, but I truly wish to thank you for this conversation. In the midst of this brace nonsense, I decided to change out the barrel on my upper with a previous 11.3" barrel. I found a Faxon pencil barrel for a decent price and switched it out, keeping my 11.5" Midwest Combat handguard. I was so surprised that it's actually lighter than its previous iteration. I would never have considered getting the pencil barrel before hearing this conversation (which I originally watched when you first premiered it). Thank you for all you do.
This is like watching 2 Toyota guys talking about how awesome the 2JZGE or 1UZFE engines are where neither of them can bring up any negatives without the other having a reason why that's okay and that they are still the best engines EVER made! Haha, love seeing these in retrospect because I'm getting close to getting a lower with the DMR trigger and putting a build of my own together. Great rifle guys! Sad it's not getting more attention in the TH-cam world, or at least not as much attention as it should be getting!
These guys get it right! I'm a Reagan-era soldier, so I'm biased, but I agree that the -A1 build was the best rifle, kinda like the original Ford Mustang...
when I served in the Army, I was issued the A2. I loved the burst function, it was controlable, and long range accuracy in semi was excellent with the heavy barrel....my rifle also had the grenade launcher which was useful also......
As someone that spent a fair amount of (my spare) time researching the M16A2 for a couple of AR-15 builds with my dad (who was issued the A1 and prefers it over all other variants, provided you don't hand him an M14), I have to say that there are a lot of things about the A2 that people don't seem to pay much attention to or know much about why it is the way it is. I did a bunch of digging and found out that the sights are nearly target grade because that's what the Marines wanted (the Army wanted to keep the A1 style sights), while the stock got longer and the pistol grip gained the 'bump' because those were things the Army wanted (actually the Army wanted full finger grooves, but the Marines said no). While they did look at beefing up the barrel to fix the heating issues, the barrel that became the standard isn't any thicker under the handguards than an A1 barrel, so really they beefed up the barrel from the gas block forward. There are two reasons why they did it this way: one, they didn't want to have to buy all new M203 grenade launchers or at least new mounting fittings for them, and two, the Marines were bending barrels forward of the gas block during bayonet practice. I've always found it a bit silly when people say that the A2 barrel was an attempt to fix the heating problem when it's still the same as an A1 barrel for about 2/3s of its length. I do have to admit, I like features from both versions and my 'idealized' rifle would be a hybrid using a modern A1 type barrel with A2 sights, Magpul furniture (fixed stock, because I'm old-fashioned), and a full chrome bcg because I've found it the easiest to clean and take care of out of the various coatings and treatments I've tried.
The modern ones may be much more practical, but the one in the middle is just gorgeous. It's a classic in a way you normally only get with wood and steel.
I've been doing some math on the rifle's weight. For Karl's build: Complete lower 28oz, Upper 6oz, BCG 11oz, Barrel 19oz, Handguard/Nut 8oz, Gasblock/Tube 2oz. Total 74oz. That's 4.6lbs! Am I missing something here? That's incredible.
The one thing to be careful with is how light your free float handgaurd is. Generally speaking, the lighter it is, the more flexible it is. That can be a problem if you plan on attaching aimng devices (back up front sights or laser aiming modules).
I have a faxon pencil 16”, very accurate tight groups for 50 rounds. Then they spread and shift 1” up and 2” right. I have a BCM SOCOM profile 14.5” that is as accurate with a cold barrel and stays that way after 300 rounds of rapid fire.
I was a Canadian Infantryman. We only shot our rifles on full-auto a few times in training. They told us right from the start that we were expected to select our targets individually and eliminate them as they came up. Don't shoot full-auto was the basic message. I learned to shoot in three round bursts, but it's not a common occurrence in the Canadian Infantry. We select targets, then hit them. I kind of wish they'd free-floated the barrels, I experienced a lot of drift as a result of hot barrels. I'm pretty sure I'd have been a more efficient shooter if my barrel was wasn't attached to the handguards. My brothers accuracy suffered as a result; they're both in the Armed Forces.
It'd be OK by me if they adopted an updated version of the C7. Change is good! It's a proven weapons system, so that's cool. The only other real change they could make is the switch to a caseless rifle, but I don't see that happening any time in the near future!
Wanted to say I'm a long time watcher originally showed up because of the WW1 guns and some of the more odd weapons (Jackhammer... yeah) and this WWSD project has been watched very closely by myself and several close friends. We appreciate your work and time on this and dutifully await the final product and test. Thank you for mainlining something that the AR platform has needed for years.
I'm currently building an A1/A2 hodgepodge clone with the triangle guard, carry handle, A2 Buttstock and original sling all of which are surplus parts. The buttstock still has cage numbers on it. The rest of the parts are very standard except for the bolt and barrel which are modern touches. I went with the Faxon 20" Gov't barrel and RCA bolt. It's nearly finished. So excited about it. The only other flare is a laser etched dust cover that says Made In USA and has a US flag both on the inside. It'll be kind of a tribute rifle.
At 16:17, Ian talking about his optic says "it has a retched eticle." I had to play it back to see if I heard it right. Gave me a good chuckle. Looking at doing a lightweight build, and this is giving me great ideas. Thanks for the videos, guys.
TL;DR: these two items work great for competition shooting. I have been running an 18" Faxon GUNNER barrel (that being government profile up to the gas block (same as SP1?), and pencil including and forward of gas journal) and a round carbon fiber free float handguard for 3 gun for 2 years, and it is magic. Absolutely fantastic. Also a titanium, low-pro gas block and a pretty serious muzzle brake. Gotta mill some vent slots in my carbon fiber tube or get a new MLOK one, tho: mine's solid, save for four holes drilled near the muzzle end.
That titanium gas block dissipates heat better too. And wear a mask and long sleeves+gloves when you cut that carbon fiber. And vacuum after. That dust is nasty, it probably can give you lung cancer.
It makes for an interesting discussion. I have a heavy profile barrel, and it is a sub-MOA shooter with very little heat shift. Having said that, when shooting unsupported for any length of time the weight leads to wobble and tremors, which leads to decreased accuracy. Most are not going to take many supported long range shots, but it is one of the things I really like to do, so there is a balance to be struck. I'm not sure where that is, but I can tell you it is south of the weight of my rifle. I am going to partially rebuild it this winter with the goal of dropping a significant weight off the front end.
As an Armored in the Marine Corps in the 80's, I repaired and fired many A1's and A2's. The A2's were a huge improvement. 10% of our A1barrels would come back bent from parades due to Marine over tightening their slings, this never happened with A2's. The plastic butt stock and handguards were much more durable and really need replacing. A1 handguards were a nightmare. Finally, the A1's were very difficult to keep rounds on target on full auto because they were so light. I would get the A1 so hot on full auto that I have had to use the m60 mitten to just to hold the handguard.
The carbon fiber guard was indeed a 'must'. There couldn't be anything better today. Both guns seem very well thought-out. Looking forward to seeing some more action with them...
In OSUT INF basic I was issued an A2 and just qualified in BRM (basic rifle marksmanship)..In AIT was issued an A1 and shot the Highest score out of the Battalion in ARM(advanced rifle marksmanship)..Love the A1 over A2 and M4
I have 3 aluminum ALG rails with the same design. I've burned my finger tips several times by inadvertently picking the rifle up and sticking one of them through the top MLOK slot at the barrel nut. I've put some athletic tape around that section of the rail to block the slot.
Questions about POI shift when you've got a hot barrel. I understand that in the 60s/70s much of it was attributed to how the barrel was made and not properly stress tested/treated like modern barrels are now. Could some of that be mitigated by how the handguard and sight are mounted? Consider the following scenarios: 1) Non-free float and barrel mounted sight - barrel heats, and flex is made worse by the non free float (i.e. not optimal scenario) 2) Free float and sight mounted on the handguard - barrel flexes a bit, less than with non free float, but sights are now "off" as POA is not zeroed to the now hot barrel (i.e. worst case scenario) 3) Free float and barrel mounted sight - although the barrel is hot and flexing, wouldn't having the stress off the barrel (due to free float) have it flex less? And since the sight is mounted to the barrel, your POA is still "zeroed" since the sight is flexing with the barrel itself? (i.e. best possible scenario?) Thanks!
I'm really enjoying your videos thank you very much there is one problem though as a former motorcycle racer carbon fiber was sexy but the reality was over use and overtime other materials serve a better purpose it may be a little bit heavier but if you start throwing things around, screwing and unscrewing you're going to find that the aluminum works better. My other issue is why would you pick a 14-inch Barrel vs. A 16 inch barrel the 2in make a good bit of difference on cavitation and other positive ballistics. It will only be a little bit longer and you can unscrew and screw whatever type of muzzle device you want. Yeah it's true the 20 inch barrel sure is long but it sure do get that bullet movin'! I guess some people just like long! Thanks again you make a lot of really good points and fuel for thought.
You guys are missing out on a big point here. The M-16 was made to be a military gun which includes keeping the price low. I could build a fantastic AR for a couple of grand but that would't be what Stoner would do. Anyway, good video guys!
Titanium Rain I disagree, the KAC rail is inferior to the CF option due to the full length rail. The modified bolt design needs independent testing to verify any of their claims and while less important the ball bearing muzzle device is a disaster waiting to happen when grit and debris get into the mechanism.
+otm646 won't disagree on that. It would be interesting if the modified bolt design was proven to be superior and became the new standard on not just ARs but all the 7-lug bolt piston guns. Not going to happen, but it would be interesting.
DownhillChris In the Marines we called it "frog gear." Basically mesh in the areas where your armor is so you stay cooler and can cool off faster when you take the armor off.
I back Karl up on this. There is NO reason not to have your barrel free floated. You can still have your A2 A frame front sight block. Just get a 12.6" handguard and reinstall the front sight infront of it. It actually looks really good!
Did you check out the brigand arms hand guard? Carbon fiber but not m-lok. Also got blown up on tannerite and stayed in one piece. Not saying that you made a bad choice. Thanks for doing this project.
It is fantastic. Unless you have to make a California complaint rifle. For perspective, I just threw together what I will call the CAWWSD rifle and had to go with a carbon fiber fixed stock. If your unfamiliar with CA gun laws the TLDR is "fixed magazine" can have all the fun bits, non fixed can't have pistol grip/adjustable stock/flash hider. Pretty much you end up needing the stock threading to affix a contraption that allows for the rear take down pin to be quick release...ca gun laws... Good news is that with an eye watering amount of money the end result can be the same. The carbon fiber stock cost the same as a GWACs lower/stock/buffer not including the need for a lower and buffer assembly(ends up being $300 more compared to GWACs). If one was handy with plastic welding, the GWACs lower could be used with the grip chopped and replaced with a shark fin grip, but that is a lot of work. The GWACs lower does end up being better than even my setup because they are legendarily durable and strong. There are more than a few videos on the net of people doing push ups off a GWACs lower AR balanced on the pistol grip using the upper and stock as hand holds.
I don't quite agree that a free float barrel is an absolute must. Sure, the barrel no longer has pressure potentially changing your point of aim with iron sights. But I have never had it shift so much that I couldn't hit what I was shooting at with a regular handguard. Even then, if the front sight is mounted on the handguard, then that is still potentially being manipulated by pressure from your hand. So you will likely still not have absolute accuracy unless you mount the front sight post on the barrel itself. Having an optic is a different story. But even then, I can still hit targets beyond 300m with an optic and a regular captive handguard. I love what you guys did with this project. But if you guys are willing to accept a shift in point of aim for the sake of having a pencil barrel, then why is it a big deal for me to choose to keep a basic handguard on an M4 profile or heavy barrel? It doesn't really shift that much, even on support. I understand what you are saying. I like free floats. But my favorite rifle has a Magpul MOE carbine hanguard. It just reminds me of the rifles I was issued in active duty. I love the feel of it while still being able to mount basic essentials like lights, slings, and still being able to use grips/hand stops. Not knocking free float. I definitely like certain ones. But I don't need an excuse to choose not to buy a pricey handguard when I do just fine with the old system. Still, love your stuff. This series actually did help me build my favorite rifle.
Karl, you can actually get suppressors that would be compatible with that barrel with the new suppressors that use the muzzle device to mount. I know it’s a pita to deal with the nfa to get a new suppressor but it is an option.
How do you get a suppressor that is compatible with the Faxon pinned flash hider? Don't they need to be specifically designed to work with specific flash hiders? Do you know of one that works with the Faxon slim flash hider? I would be glad if that was the case, and would like to know which one it is.
I chose to go with the midwest lightweight HG 15" with a 18" and the 12.625 with the 16 I'm more of a fan of the 18" gunner but I do love the faxon 16 pencil also
Thanks, especially the discussion of the handguard. The issues of heat with metal handguards has been a major reason I've been leery of free-floated units. Question: Didn't the military develop a free-float handguard that looked like the standard guards for their competition rifles?
Ex-Airborne Infantryman here: I was once told by a man in a brown round hat that what makes the M16 the most advanced weapon on the planet is that it is 3 medieval weapons rolled into one. The bullets being the arrows, the buttstock being the club and the bayonet being the spear. These medieval weapons have been the most killing instruments of warfare for more than 5000 years and he pity the fool that didn't know how to use all 3.
@@joemoment-o1275 if he had stood still long enough to "strike inline" it wouldnt have been a problem. But he was too busy trying to stick me with a bayonet. Shrug..so I slammed his head and as he went down..I buried the flash hider in his eye to the bayonet lug. Not something they teach in basic..but it worked and allowed me to didi mau.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, even if your zero doesn’t shift, won’t pencil barrels get hotter faster than say a midweight, and therefore the throat and bore wear faster?
If you can't find stock of the Faxon free floats, Lancer makes good carbon fiber free float tubes as well. Pros and cons between the 2, neither is likely objectively better. I like the Faxon free float because the carbon fiber almost completely surrounds any of the heat areas. The Lancer free float has an exposed ring of aluminum where the assembly attaches to the upper. Bonus of the Lancer version is built in QD mounts both sides where the assembly meets the upper. Just thought I would leave a post for anyone that has the same issues I had when building an AR in that all the Faxon free floats were out of stock at the time of building.
Yet another good look at a logical evolution of the M-16/AR-15 system. Being a materials "geek" by profession, I do question the durability of a carbon-fiber handguard. Carbon fiber composites are "trick" where weight and stiffness/strength are critical but it is not as damage tolerant as other composites. I'd be curious to know more about the handguard materials themselves. The polymer used can greatly affect damage tolerance. Thermosetting resins (polyester and epoxy) are not as damage-tolerant as thermoplastics but are far more produceable... just curious if you happen to know the construction of the MLOK handguard system?.
Would you guys consider putting carbon fiber wrapped barrels like the ones made by Proof? I feel like they would be great for your application minus the cost.
I’ve been trying to find the 18” Faxon pencil barrel, but I don’t see it on their website or listed on any retailer websites. They list 10.5”, 14.5”, and 16” pencil barrels in 5.56, but they do not list an 18”. Can you confirm if this is indeed the barrel you used, or did you use a similar profile such as the “gunner” profile? Thanks!
Love your guy's channel. The 16" Faxon integrated flash hider Gunner barrel is only about 2oz heavier than the integrated pencil profile. Is the 2oz of extra weight even noticeable to the shooter? Just asking before I purchase would you pick the Gunner over the Pencil profile today?🙂👍
Those lowers do look interesting... I think they solved strength problems by having the lower and the stock as one piece. With the same principle, do you think that a polymer lower integrated with something like the upper half of a UBR stock would work?
Barrel "overheating" is a direct function of "Rounds / Time". Steady, aimed fire will heat up a barrel, but not to the point it "glows", (or "droops" or ruptures). Several mag-dumps in the general direction of a possible "target" is a whole different thing. House-clearing and "street-sweeping" (CQB) are where rock 'n roll comes into play. What is a sensible combat load of 5.56 ammo, (carried in mags, in the issued pouches, NOT in cans in your back-pack)? It depends. 250 rounds? 350? Load up a soldier with twelve filled 30 round mags plus all the other "stuff" (Linked ammo for the MG, Claymore mines, grenades, radio (and spare batteries, food and water. a six pound rifle is a serious blessing. Also noting that a walk in the tropical weeds with all that hanging off your body will require the consumption of a prodigious amount of water (and electrolytes) just to stop you becoming a heat-stress casualty before lunch-time. Another interesting note is that the barrel in the original production AR-10 is also VERY "light". This may not be at first apparent, until you pick one up.. Most obvious "distraction" is the "sleeve" over the exposed barrel at the muzzle. Under the one-piece fore-end / hand-guard, the barrel is radically "fluted". The "major" diameter of the barrel before "fluting" is not exactly skinny, but the fluting produced big axial fins, much more than mere decorative swipes with a ball-nosed milling cutter, as seen on swanky "sporting" rifles. This provides a "light" barrel with a LOT of external surface area and substantial rigidity. Pretty slick for the late 1950's.
Hey Ian/Karl, have you guys checked out the Bttle Arms Development lightweight billet upper? Could be another way of shaving off some weight, albeit it would be a minute amount.
I'm not sure the M16 had an issue so much of stringing from the barrel contour, but from the non free float handguard. The A2 barrel was due to intense impacts bending the barrels.
What kind of MOA are people getting with the Faxon 14.5 pinned barrels? Some people were saying they weren't very good or were having quality control issues.
If you're changing positions a lot (standing, prone etc) your eye relief changes, so in that situation a collapsible stock has significant advantages. A fixed stock can be more rigid / durable, potentially.
Collapsible stocks allow for better fitment to individuals. It also allows you to adjust the length to help with fitment for optics with short eye relief (like the ACOG). And it allows you to have a proper fit to the rifle if you are using armor. You could do any of those things with a properly fitting fixed stock; however, most people don't ALWAYS have armor on, people sometimes switch optics or sights etc and it allows the user to have one stock that allows you to switch between different uses AND shorten the gun for storage. EDIT: it also allows for different people to use the rifle with proper fitment. For instance both me and my wife both shoot my AR-15 and she is about half my size so we use different positions on the stock.
Sam Doohan it's not so much about making adjustments on the move it's more about being able to make adjustments beforehand to fit your needs. CQB set up I choke up a bit vs long(er) range.
DyingIsMyLatestFashion Ian is 5'11" IIRC, about average. The main reason they went with a fixed stock is that there weren't any good polymer lowers (remember, going light) that allowed for a collapsible stock. So they picked the best poly lower they could find and it has a fixed stock.
Little late to the party here but how on earth are bayonets obsolete? I was fixing bayonets in CQB as little as four years ago and we have a much shorter rifle than those shown. I didn't actually get use mine but people in my section did. Its a remarkably effective bit of kit.
The only reason I'd own an AR with out a free floated barrel is because Nostalgia. If I wanted a clone of any M16 or M4 for nostalgic reasons, obviously it wouldn't be free floated. Other than that one reason I agree with the free float statement you made
Hey Ian and Karl, you are coming from a most practical point of view with respect to a modern rifle when building an assault cqc or long range battle rifle, but what about the cheaper gun owners PDW/plinker with polymer handguards and a 16in HBAR? If you could answer this in a vid that would be awesome, keep up the good work.
For the DMR one why not 7.62x51? I think stay to 5.56 makes senses for weight and typical engagement distances, but wanted to see if you considered it.
classicMaxReviews if so, great. But as far as what I’m seeing, there is a difference between the pencil and the gunner barrel. But either way, I believe it will be an amazing rifle.
I love how Karl is constantly 100% energy and angry at some unseeable force
Rawr
He has BDE
Lol! That is a true observation very well described! 👍🏼🤣
@@joemoment-o1275 I bought one. They're garbage. Skinnier than faxon, much more flimsy, they don't lock down and they're inconsistent. The only way you can actually keep it in position is soak the barrel nut in rocksette. But then if anything happens to the handguard you have to cut it off. If you look at the barrel nut area, there's a flimsy little ring that you thread the other way than the handguard. That is the only locking system. It sucks. Please don't waste your money. If you're going you buy a carbon fiber tube just get the faxon
@@Armadurapersonal Big Direct impingement Energy
I'm going back through some of the videos while reconsidering the barrel on my build. It's wild seeing everything with the old Cav2 lowers, among other things. Man what a time then, and now. Thanks for everything you've done Karl
You mentioned about adding weight to the barrel for heat absorption. Lt. Col. Lutz actually has stated that the main reason he increased the weight of the barrel profile was that the barrels were bending during bayonet practice, rappelling, airborne operations, and people using the rifle as a pry bar to open crates with the bayonet. No mention of the barrels overheating was made as far as I'm aware.
still the barrel will and has bend during sustained fire. But it is known for the idiots of the time to use the rifles bayonet ( when and when not attached) to pry open supply crates in field and even when in the fobs.
If memory serves, LTC Lutz found that the majority of the reports of A1 barrels failing the barrel straightness gauge was because of copper sediment pooling in eroded gas ports. However that hypothesis was only tested after the TDP for the A2 was done and contracts were signed, so they just stuck with it. Civilian Colt products stuck with thinner profiles until the bull barrel malarkey became a thing.
I asked a friend of mine about overheating. He said he went into a bunker complex and did "8 mag dumps" and it "seemed fine"? LOL.
@@johnL-xk2js "Seems fine" and "is fine" are not necessarily the same.
@@ViktoriousDead What a dumb comment.
Just finished my own door kicker rifle using the Faxon 14.5 "gunner" barrel with muzzle brake, weights 5.75 lbs naked down from 7.25 lbs.
Bigbore noice
The original M-16's were light and super fast to handle and get on target. The only problems I had in Vietnam were: 1., the damn ammo loaded with Olin ball powder, 2., The lack of cleaning kits or cleaning supplies....
The powder would be a non-issue with the A1s heavier buffer, and it's included cleaning kit.
One Doomed Spacemarine
But especially the A1's chromed internals and military size chamber
In the mean time , however, soldiers were dying with rifles stripped down beside them, or with a rod stuffed down the barrel trying to free stuck cases.
In Range Seal of Approval TShirts!
Yes!
Giovanni Battista Ponzetto for marksmanship?
Came here to say this lol
The main advantage of carbon fiber vs aluminum isn't so much heat storage as conductivity.
I realize you may not see this comment, but I truly wish to thank you for this conversation. In the midst of this brace nonsense, I decided to change out the barrel on my upper with a previous 11.3" barrel. I found a Faxon pencil barrel for a decent price and switched it out, keeping my 11.5" Midwest Combat handguard. I was so surprised that it's actually lighter than its previous iteration. I would never have considered getting the pencil barrel before hearing this conversation (which I originally watched when you first premiered it). Thank you for all you do.
This is like watching 2 Toyota guys talking about how awesome the 2JZGE or 1UZFE engines are where neither of them can bring up any negatives without the other having a reason why that's okay and that they are still the best engines EVER made!
Haha, love seeing these in retrospect because I'm getting close to getting a lower with the DMR trigger and putting a build of my own together. Great rifle guys! Sad it's not getting more attention in the TH-cam world, or at least not as much attention as it should be getting!
Now that we've taken the platform to its modern evolution...
InRange 2018: What Would Bergmann Do?
(In fun, Ian, I enjoyed the Bergmann stuff 😄)
What would Bergmann do? Shit himself.
Hi Point
What would mikhail kalashnikov do 2018?!?
The same thing he did in 47 but with titanium
Like a scaled down titanium reciever SVD in 6.5 grendle
Yessss!
AK-12 and AK-15 ( 7,62x39mm of AK12 ) ?
It would probably look like the new AK-12. Which is a fine rifle, really.
These guys get it right! I'm a Reagan-era soldier, so I'm biased, but I agree that the -A1 build was the best rifle, kinda like the original Ford Mustang...
I like that you guys are secure enough to call what you're making a weapon of war. Far before it was largely acceptable to do so in the community.
Content like this is what I look foward to seeing. Everything else feels like watching PBS. Keep up the hard work and do the diligence
It makes me smile that Ian is wearing a Rifle Dynamics tee while discussing WWSD.
when I served in the Army, I was issued the A2. I loved the burst function, it was controlable, and long range accuracy in semi was excellent with the heavy barrel....my rifle also had the grenade launcher which was useful also......
Robin Snodgrass Any time you think, "I should dump my mag right now," just fire the grenade instead. :P
jtfroh the m203 was a fine addition for sure!
As someone that spent a fair amount of (my spare) time researching the M16A2 for a couple of AR-15 builds with my dad (who was issued the A1 and prefers it over all other variants, provided you don't hand him an M14), I have to say that there are a lot of things about the A2 that people don't seem to pay much attention to or know much about why it is the way it is. I did a bunch of digging and found out that the sights are nearly target grade because that's what the Marines wanted (the Army wanted to keep the A1 style sights), while the stock got longer and the pistol grip gained the 'bump' because those were things the Army wanted (actually the Army wanted full finger grooves, but the Marines said no). While they did look at beefing up the barrel to fix the heating issues, the barrel that became the standard isn't any thicker under the handguards than an A1 barrel, so really they beefed up the barrel from the gas block forward. There are two reasons why they did it this way: one, they didn't want to have to buy all new M203 grenade launchers or at least new mounting fittings for them, and two, the Marines were bending barrels forward of the gas block during bayonet practice. I've always found it a bit silly when people say that the A2 barrel was an attempt to fix the heating problem when it's still the same as an A1 barrel for about 2/3s of its length. I do have to admit, I like features from both versions and my 'idealized' rifle would be a hybrid using a modern A1 type barrel with A2 sights, Magpul furniture (fixed stock, because I'm old-fashioned), and a full chrome bcg because I've found it the easiest to clean and take care of out of the various coatings and treatments I've tried.
It's about time we got another WWSD! More deep dives !
The modern ones may be much more practical, but the one in the middle is just gorgeous. It's a classic in a way you normally only get with wood and steel.
Retro ARs get the Rule of Cool pass.
I've been doing some math on the rifle's weight. For Karl's build: Complete lower 28oz, Upper 6oz, BCG 11oz, Barrel 19oz, Handguard/Nut 8oz, Gasblock/Tube 2oz. Total 74oz. That's 4.6lbs! Am I missing something here? That's incredible.
the sight
The one thing to be careful with is how light your free float handgaurd is. Generally speaking, the lighter it is, the more flexible it is. That can be a problem if you plan on attaching aimng devices (back up front sights or laser aiming modules).
I have a faxon pencil 16”, very accurate tight groups for 50 rounds. Then they spread and shift 1” up and 2” right. I have a BCM SOCOM profile 14.5” that is as accurate with a cold barrel and stays that way after 300 rounds of rapid fire.
I was a Canadian Infantryman. We only shot our rifles on full-auto a few times in training. They told us right from the start that we were expected to select our targets individually and eliminate them as they came up. Don't shoot full-auto was the basic message. I learned to shoot in three round bursts, but it's not a common occurrence in the Canadian Infantry. We select targets, then hit them. I kind of wish they'd free-floated the barrels, I experienced a lot of drift as a result of hot barrels. I'm pretty sure I'd have been a more efficient shooter if my barrel was wasn't attached to the handguards. My brothers accuracy suffered as a result; they're both in the Armed Forces.
It'd be OK by me if they adopted an updated version of the C7. Change is good! It's a proven weapons system, so that's cool. The only other real change they could make is the switch to a caseless rifle, but I don't see that happening any time in the near future!
you guys are passionate about guns, you know your shit and i love it !
Wanted to say I'm a long time watcher originally showed up because of the WW1 guns and some of the more odd weapons (Jackhammer... yeah) and this WWSD project has been watched very closely by myself and several close friends. We appreciate your work and time on this and dutifully await the final product and test. Thank you for mainlining something that the AR platform has needed for years.
I'm currently building an A1/A2 hodgepodge clone with the triangle guard, carry handle, A2 Buttstock and original sling all of which are surplus parts. The buttstock still has cage numbers on it. The rest of the parts are very standard except for the bolt and barrel which are modern touches. I went with the Faxon 20" Gov't barrel and RCA bolt. It's nearly finished. So excited about it. The only other flare is a laser etched dust cover that says Made In USA and has a US flag both on the inside. It'll be kind of a tribute rifle.
I'm here because WWSD2020
At 16:17, Ian talking about his optic says "it has a retched eticle."
I had to play it back to see if I heard it right. Gave me a good chuckle. Looking at doing a lightweight build, and this is giving me great ideas. Thanks for the videos, guys.
Love you guys! I came to VERY similar conclusions on my own AR, the principal difference being that you guys have access to newer & better parts.
TL;DR: these two items work great for competition shooting.
I have been running an 18" Faxon GUNNER barrel (that being government profile up to the gas block (same as SP1?), and pencil including and forward of gas journal) and a round carbon fiber free float handguard for 3 gun for 2 years, and it is magic. Absolutely fantastic. Also a titanium, low-pro gas block and a pretty serious muzzle brake. Gotta mill some vent slots in my carbon fiber tube or get a new MLOK one, tho: mine's solid, save for four holes drilled near the muzzle end.
That titanium gas block dissipates heat better too. And wear a mask and long sleeves+gloves when you cut that carbon fiber. And vacuum after. That dust is nasty, it probably can give you lung cancer.
Way late, but it's medium profile iirc before the gas block, definitely not Gov profile, since that's just a pencil barrel from the gas block back.
I have the 556 Faxon 16" Pencil QPQ. Simply amazing.
It is. Congrats!
I mounted an ATI Omni poly upper and Del-Ton 20" lightweight barrel to my KP15 lower ......it's an ALL POLYMER M16A4 CLONE that weighs
"Tactically magnetic" may be one of the coolest phrases I've heard in a great while.
"Ounces make Kilos" - Coop772
Caboose 92m I never expected to see anything about coop772 here
How many ounces are there in a kilo? Something like 32, yes?
I just weighed my ar. My unimaginable frustration when it is .6 pounds short of 10 with a loaded mag...
What brand/model is it?
@@MiamiVice. Pretty sure that was just my standard carbine with a ras handuard.
@@GruntBurger ah yes, the quad. The weight bomb
It makes for an interesting discussion. I have a heavy profile barrel, and it is a sub-MOA shooter with very little heat shift. Having said that, when shooting unsupported for any length of time the weight leads to wobble and tremors, which leads to decreased accuracy. Most are not going to take many supported long range shots, but it is one of the things I really like to do, so there is a balance to be struck. I'm not sure where that is, but I can tell you it is south of the weight of my rifle. I am going to partially rebuild it this winter with the goal of dropping a significant weight off the front end.
As an Armored in the Marine Corps in the 80's, I repaired and fired many A1's and A2's. The A2's were a huge improvement. 10% of our A1barrels would come back bent from parades due to Marine over tightening their slings, this never happened with A2's. The plastic butt stock and handguards were much more durable and really need replacing. A1 handguards were a nightmare. Finally, the A1's were very difficult to keep rounds on target on full auto because they were so light. I would get the A1 so hot on full auto that I have had to use the m60 mitten to just to hold the handguard.
SEMPER FI,
Brother.
I have mixed feelings of the rear sights.
My big bitch is the stock length...
U.S.M.C.1982-1986, 1988-1993
A free float handguard is something I think might help solve your barrel.
The carbon fiber guard was indeed a 'must'. There couldn't be anything better today.
Both guns seem very well thought-out.
Looking forward to seeing some more action with them...
Makes excellent shrapnel too!
Stoner liked the 20" barrel. 16" serves me well in a super effective in a hunting role. My 24" upper is very interesting and full force set up.
I love the dd fixed a1.5 sights use them with my aimpoint
In OSUT INF basic I was issued an A2 and just qualified in BRM (basic rifle marksmanship)..In AIT was issued an A1 and shot the Highest score out of the Battalion in ARM(advanced rifle marksmanship)..Love the A1 over A2 and M4
Great video guys, looking forward to the next one.
Love those Lancer-made handguards, best I've found
I have 3 aluminum ALG rails with the same design. I've burned my finger tips several times by inadvertently picking the rifle up and sticking one of them through the top MLOK slot at the barrel nut. I've put some athletic tape around that section of the rail to block the slot.
I cant help but wonder why they didnt go with the gunner profile barrel. its still pretty light and gives a good bit more heat resistance
Your guns look *really* good, and I'm certain that they perform superbly.
Questions about POI shift when you've got a hot barrel.
I understand that in the 60s/70s much of it was attributed to how the barrel was made and not properly stress tested/treated like modern barrels are now. Could some of that be mitigated by how the handguard and sight are mounted? Consider the following scenarios:
1) Non-free float and barrel mounted sight - barrel heats, and flex is made worse by the non free float (i.e. not optimal scenario)
2) Free float and sight mounted on the handguard - barrel flexes a bit, less than with non free float, but sights are now "off" as POA is not zeroed to the now hot barrel (i.e. worst case scenario)
3) Free float and barrel mounted sight - although the barrel is hot and flexing, wouldn't having the stress off the barrel (due to free float) have it flex less? And since the sight is mounted to the barrel, your POA is still "zeroed" since the sight is flexing with the barrel itself? (i.e. best possible scenario?)
Thanks!
I'm really enjoying your videos thank you very much there is one problem though as a former motorcycle racer carbon fiber was sexy but the reality was over use and overtime other materials serve a better purpose it may be a little bit heavier but if you start throwing things around, screwing and unscrewing you're going to find that the aluminum works better. My other issue is why would you pick a 14-inch Barrel vs. A 16 inch barrel the 2in make a good bit of difference on cavitation and other positive ballistics. It will only be a little bit longer and you can unscrew and screw whatever type of muzzle device you want. Yeah it's true the 20 inch barrel sure is long but it sure do get that bullet movin'! I guess some people just like long! Thanks again you make a lot of really good points and fuel for thought.
@Phillip Cameron 214 for 1000! Would you trust your life to Tula? I use alot of steel case for practice?
Also 223 Rem Match 75 grain BTHP Hollow Point Prvi Partizan Ammo PP54. Expensive to practice with?
@Phillip Cameron Well then, that s a yes!! I guess it s time to test my 16" pencil out! Thx sir
You guys are missing out on a big point here. The M-16 was made to be a military gun which includes keeping the price low. I could build a fantastic AR for a couple of grand but that would't be what Stoner would do. Anyway, good video guys!
Reece Lynch ironically what Stoner would do was realized with the SR-15 E3 by KAC, and it costs 2000 bucks.
Titanium Rain I disagree, the KAC rail is inferior to the CF option due to the full length rail. The modified bolt design needs independent testing to verify any of their claims and while less important the ball bearing muzzle device is a disaster waiting to happen when grit and debris get into the mechanism.
+otm646 won't disagree on that. It would be interesting if the modified bolt design was proven to be superior and became the new standard on not just ARs but all the 7-lug bolt piston guns. Not going to happen, but it would be interesting.
Crazy to see you two in the same room without masks now.
Odd how things have progressed to 2020.
Now we need more WWSD2020 updates!!!
The jersey/shirt/whatever Karl is wearing here looks SUPER comfortable!
DownhillChris In the Marines we called it "frog gear." Basically mesh in the areas where your armor is so you stay cooler and can cool off faster when you take the armor off.
I used to work with composites and the carbon hand guard should, well crush the aluminium ones in a crush test.
13:45 yeah but the og handguard looks cool
I do love the look of the triangle guard whats it like to use
"The InRange stamp of hubris"! 😂😂😂
I back Karl up on this. There is NO reason not to have your barrel free floated. You can still have your A2 A frame front sight block. Just get a 12.6" handguard and reinstall the front sight infront of it. It actually looks really good!
I've got a Faxon 16in gunner match w/ a Faxon M-lok along with a Faxon 14.5in pencil. Love them both. Faxon are by far the best barrels for the money.
Did you check out the brigand arms hand guard? Carbon fiber but not m-lok. Also got blown up on tannerite and stayed in one piece. Not saying that you made a bad choice. Thanks for doing this project.
I just got the CF handguard because I'm a car guy and CF gives the bullets more horsepower.
Yep
I like that the lower/stock is monolithic.
It is fantastic. Unless you have to make a California complaint rifle. For perspective, I just threw together what I will call the CAWWSD rifle and had to go with a carbon fiber fixed stock. If your unfamiliar with CA gun laws the TLDR is "fixed magazine" can have all the fun bits, non fixed can't have pistol grip/adjustable stock/flash hider. Pretty much you end up needing the stock threading to affix a contraption that allows for the rear take down pin to be quick release...ca gun laws... Good news is that with an eye watering amount of money the end result can be the same. The carbon fiber stock cost the same as a GWACs lower/stock/buffer not including the need for a lower and buffer assembly(ends up being $300 more compared to GWACs). If one was handy with plastic welding, the GWACs lower could be used with the grip chopped and replaced with a shark fin grip, but that is a lot of work. The GWACs lower does end up being better than even my setup because they are legendarily durable and strong. There are more than a few videos on the net of people doing push ups off a GWACs lower AR balanced on the pistol grip using the upper and stock as hand holds.
I don't quite agree that a free float barrel is an absolute must. Sure, the barrel no longer has pressure potentially changing your point of aim with iron sights. But I have never had it shift so much that I couldn't hit what I was shooting at with a regular handguard. Even then, if the front sight is mounted on the handguard, then that is still potentially being manipulated by pressure from your hand. So you will likely still not have absolute accuracy unless you mount the front sight post on the barrel itself. Having an optic is a different story. But even then, I can still hit targets beyond 300m with an optic and a regular captive handguard. I love what you guys did with this project. But if you guys are willing to accept a shift in point of aim for the sake of having a pencil barrel, then why is it a big deal for me to choose to keep a basic handguard on an M4 profile or heavy barrel? It doesn't really shift that much, even on support. I understand what you are saying. I like free floats. But my favorite rifle has a Magpul MOE carbine hanguard. It just reminds me of the rifles I was issued in active duty. I love the feel of it while still being able to mount basic essentials like lights, slings, and still being able to use grips/hand stops. Not knocking free float. I definitely like certain ones. But I don't need an excuse to choose not to buy a pricey handguard when I do just fine with the old system. Still, love your stuff. This series actually did help me build my favorite rifle.
I think you could find a plastic plug to fit in the bolts for the hand guard to provide insulation if they are allen bolts.
Yeah!!!!!!!!!! More wwsd videos!!!!
Karl, you can actually get suppressors that would be compatible with that barrel with the new suppressors that use the muzzle device to mount. I know it’s a pita to deal with the nfa to get a new suppressor but it is an option.
How do you get a suppressor that is compatible with the Faxon pinned flash hider? Don't they need to be specifically designed to work with specific flash hiders? Do you know of one that works with the Faxon slim flash hider? I would be glad if that was the case, and would like to know which one it is.
I chose to go with the midwest lightweight HG 15" with a 18" and the 12.625 with the 16 I'm more of a fan of the 18" gunner but I do love the faxon 16 pencil also
Thanks, especially the discussion of the handguard. The issues of heat with metal handguards has been a major reason I've been leery of free-floated units.
Question: Didn't the military develop a free-float handguard that looked like the standard guards for their competition rifles?
Yes, actually. Specifically “DCM”
@@baker90338 Thanks!
Pete Sheppard they don’t make a A1 handguard though
@@baker90338 Thanks. :)
IIRC, the A1s weren't used for high-power competition; M14s were still the rifle of choice before the A2 was standardized.
Excellent!
How does the low profile Faxon flash hider perform? Does it make any "tuning fork" noise when shooting?
Ex-Airborne Infantryman here: I was once told by a man in a brown round hat that what makes the M16 the most advanced weapon on the planet is that it is 3 medieval weapons rolled into one. The bullets being the arrows, the buttstock being the club and the bayonet being the spear. These medieval weapons have been the most killing instruments of warfare for more than 5000 years and he pity the fool that didn't know how to use all 3.
Until you had to slap a gomer wearing a NVA helmet and the butt stock broke. .......
This is true of a boltgun or a M1 for instance more than the 16.
11B2Papa!
@@joemoment-o1275 if he had stood still long enough to "strike inline" it wouldnt have been a problem. But he was too busy trying to stick me with a bayonet. Shrug..so I slammed his head and as he went down..I buried the flash hider in his eye to the bayonet lug. Not something they teach in basic..but it worked and allowed me to didi mau.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, even if your zero doesn’t shift, won’t pencil barrels get hotter faster than say a midweight, and therefore the throat and bore wear faster?
If you can't find stock of the Faxon free floats, Lancer makes good carbon fiber free float tubes as well. Pros and cons between the 2, neither is likely objectively better. I like the Faxon free float because the carbon fiber almost completely surrounds any of the heat areas. The Lancer free float has an exposed ring of aluminum where the assembly attaches to the upper. Bonus of the Lancer version is built in QD mounts both sides where the assembly meets the upper. Just thought I would leave a post for anyone that has the same issues I had when building an AR in that all the Faxon free floats were out of stock at the time of building.
Mud test WWSD coming up? haha
It's an AR15 system. What is there to learn from that at this point? ~K
Ex Libris a tad bit redundant considering they've tested so many different ar-15s that have worked flawlessly
it was not a serious suggestion big K, more a reference to your highest viewed videos and how I wish this project had more visibility.
you gotta put those trigger groups to the test
@@InrangeTv That cleaning mud out of a rifle really sucks, no matter how lightweight it is?
5:50 Ian going "wooof, wooof, wooof!" Also, the video was lacking doggies.
Just finished a Ar15 light weight build using a Faxon 16 inch pencil barrel over all weight is 5.7 lbs
And speaking of fire power, when are you going to test out the Rare Breed FRT-15 trigger?
Yet another good look at a logical evolution of the M-16/AR-15 system. Being a materials "geek" by profession, I do question the durability of a carbon-fiber handguard. Carbon fiber composites are "trick" where weight and stiffness/strength are critical but it is not as damage tolerant as other composites. I'd be curious to know more about the handguard materials themselves. The polymer used can greatly affect damage tolerance. Thermosetting resins (polyester and epoxy) are not as damage-tolerant as thermoplastics but are far more produceable... just curious if you happen to know the construction of the MLOK handguard system?.
i wonder what you guys think about the proof research barrels ? they have claimed to fix the heat issues with carbine fiber barrels.
love the channel
Would you guys consider putting carbon fiber wrapped barrels like the ones made by Proof? I feel like they would be great for your application minus the cost.
BA Hanson pencil barrel = excellence!
I’ve been trying to find the 18” Faxon pencil barrel, but I don’t see it on their website or listed on any retailer websites. They list 10.5”, 14.5”, and 16” pencil barrels in 5.56, but they do not list an 18”. Can you confirm if this is indeed the barrel you used, or did you use a similar profile such as the “gunner” profile? Thanks!
did you ever find an answer? I am wondering the same thing.
All they have in an 18" 5.56 is the gunner profile. Its a little thicker from the gas block area back but pencil profile forward of the gas block.
Can (and if you do) modern AR pencil barrels , if the bar gets hot , would urinating on the barrel help cool the barrel? ( in a firefight/war)
Yes I did it in Iraq once, wish we had IAR's back then
Tactically magnetic. I felt that.
Love your guy's channel. The 16" Faxon integrated flash hider Gunner barrel is only about 2oz heavier than the integrated pencil profile. Is the 2oz of extra weight even noticeable to the shooter? Just asking before I purchase would you pick the Gunner over the Pencil profile today?🙂👍
Those lowers do look interesting... I think they solved strength problems by having the lower and the stock as one piece. With the same principle, do you think that a polymer lower integrated with something like the upper half of a UBR stock would work?
Michael Wang: GWACS! After their review like 5 years ago I picked up a couple lowers. Sold one, kept one, no issues with it I recommend for sure!
Barrel "overheating" is a direct function of "Rounds / Time".
Steady, aimed fire will heat up a barrel, but not to the point it "glows", (or "droops" or ruptures).
Several mag-dumps in the general direction of a possible "target" is a whole different thing.
House-clearing and "street-sweeping" (CQB) are where rock 'n roll comes into play. What is a sensible combat load of 5.56 ammo, (carried in mags, in the issued pouches, NOT in cans in your back-pack)? It depends.
250 rounds? 350? Load up a soldier with twelve filled 30 round mags plus all the other "stuff" (Linked ammo for the MG, Claymore mines, grenades, radio (and spare batteries, food and water. a six pound rifle is a serious blessing. Also noting that a walk in the tropical weeds with all that hanging off your body will require the consumption of a prodigious amount of water (and electrolytes) just to stop you becoming a heat-stress casualty before lunch-time.
Another interesting note is that the barrel in the original production AR-10 is also VERY "light". This may not be at first apparent, until you pick one up.. Most obvious "distraction" is the "sleeve" over the exposed barrel at the muzzle. Under the one-piece fore-end / hand-guard, the barrel is radically "fluted". The "major" diameter of the barrel before "fluting" is not exactly skinny, but the fluting produced big axial fins, much more than mere decorative swipes with a ball-nosed milling cutter, as seen on swanky "sporting" rifles. This provides a "light" barrel with a LOT of external surface area and substantial rigidity. Pretty slick for the late 1950's.
I like where this is going.
Hey Ian/Karl, have you guys checked out the Bttle Arms Development lightweight billet upper?
Could be another way of shaving off some weight, albeit it would be a minute amount.
I'm not sure the M16 had an issue so much of stringing from the barrel contour, but from the non free float handguard. The A2 barrel was due to intense impacts bending the barrels.
What kind of MOA are people getting with the Faxon 14.5 pinned barrels? Some people were saying they weren't very good or were having quality control issues.
Is that a lamp made from a riot gun in the corener behind Ian...?
well done
I know this video is about barrels but is there a benefit for a fixed stock over a collapsible stock or is it just preference?
If you're changing positions a lot (standing, prone etc) your eye relief changes, so in that situation a collapsible stock has significant advantages. A fixed stock can be more rigid / durable, potentially.
Perhaps collapsible stocks are useful for people of different sizes.
Collapsible stocks allow for better fitment to individuals. It also allows you to adjust the length to help with fitment for optics with short eye relief (like the ACOG). And it allows you to have a proper fit to the rifle if you are using armor. You could do any of those things with a properly fitting fixed stock; however, most people don't ALWAYS have armor on, people sometimes switch optics or sights etc and it allows the user to have one stock that allows you to switch between different uses AND shorten the gun for storage.
EDIT: it also allows for different people to use the rifle with proper fitment. For instance both me and my wife both shoot my AR-15 and she is about half my size so we use different positions on the stock.
Sam Doohan it's not so much about making adjustments on the move it's more about being able to make adjustments beforehand to fit your needs. CQB set up I choke up a bit vs long(er) range.
DyingIsMyLatestFashion
Ian is 5'11" IIRC, about average.
The main reason they went with a fixed stock is that there weren't any good polymer lowers (remember, going light) that allowed for a collapsible stock. So they picked the best poly lower they could find and it has a fixed stock.
Little late to the party here but how on earth are bayonets obsolete? I was fixing bayonets in CQB as little as four years ago and we have a much shorter rifle than those shown. I didn't actually get use mine but people in my section did. Its a remarkably effective bit of kit.
>never actually used mine
>great peice of kit
Pick one
@@medicsabbi3220 They were great for opening beer cans when the tabs broke off in VN
The only reason I'd own an AR with out a free floated barrel is because Nostalgia. If I wanted a clone of any M16 or M4 for nostalgic reasons, obviously it wouldn't be free floated. Other than that one reason I agree with the free float statement you made
any chance we can buy just the upper? for those of us in not such free states who are stuck with the lowers we already have?
Hey Ian and Karl, you are coming from a most practical point of view with respect to a modern rifle when building an assault cqc or long range battle rifle, but what about the cheaper gun owners PDW/plinker with polymer handguards and a 16in HBAR? If you could answer this in a vid that would be awesome, keep up the good work.
Karl the shirt you are wearing , the sleeves are short did you alter it or did it come that way ? Thank you for doing these videos .
For the DMR one why not 7.62x51? I think stay to 5.56 makes senses for weight and typical engagement distances, but wanted to see if you considered it.
If I remember right the polymer lower was unavailable in .308
Since you're mounting an IR laser, what's the IR deflection like on the handguard? Especially if you're leaning on a barrier?
I’m not seeing the 18 inch pencil barrel on the faxon website. The closest option is a gunner profile.
classicMaxReviews if so, great. But as far as what I’m seeing, there is a difference between the pencil and the gunner barrel. But either way, I believe it will be an amazing rifle.
How effective is that Faxon integrated flash suppressor?