WWSD: Rethinking the AR15 - CONCLUSION
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- There will inevitably be some video updates regarding subcomponents or new ideas in the future, but this is officially our final video in the WWSD series.
You can find all of the components we standardized on for our "official" WWSD build here:
www.inrange.tv/...
InRangeTV is entirely viewer supported:
/ inrangetv
Now they should do a "what would Kalashnikov do" rifle
Some of that will be addressed this year.
N Y E T, R I F L E I S F I N E
- Mikhail Kalashnikov, 2018
Didn't Kalashnikov even oppose the switch from 7.62 to 5.45? So "Nyet, rifle is fine" may have actually been his opinion on the issue lol
I'm thinking what ian and karl would say is that the question will be up to the manufacturers and engineers based on what would be the most cost effective and simplest rifle to manufacture on a massive scale.
I'll make the argument that kalashnikov would go with polymer and stampings.
That would just be a plain AKM
"Force multiplying garbage" is one of the best phrases I've heard in a while.
You know, I reckon the arctic guys will appreciate that heat neutrality of the polymer and carbon fiber just as much as desert guys. Aluminum’s problem isn’t that it gets hot per se, it’s that it has a really low heat capacity and high thermal conductivity. So not only can it get literally blisteringly hot, it can get shockingly cold, too. I imagine having your face thermally bonded to the gun doesn’t help with concentration.
MegaAlpakka Painted aluminum still gets cold, friend
@MegaAlpakka Steel Toes in boots aren't even directly exposed to the air, and have a covering on both sides. They still get so painfully cold working outside that I pay 3x the money to get the carbon fiber toes and not deal with that.
Trust me, the Arctic guys will like that handguard just as much.
@MegaAlpakka theyre usually annodized not painted
dA pAInt mAkeS iT a nON isSuE... Derp. Have you ever even been outside? Lol.
contact frostbite or rather, making the blammer operational with gloves on continues to be a major design criteria for many, many countries near or in or that share wintery winds with the arctic circle & surrounding areas.
5lbs, 2.9oz
Nutnfancy: **heavy breathing**
I think an important point to take from this I feel like might have been missed is waste. In today's AR Lego creations and cool guy gear, we've lost the idea of only what what we need and no waste. Don't waste your total available weight. Dont waste rail space. Don't waste length. Modern materials change the game for those restrictions. I think those "in charge" in DOD and LEO agencies need to take an advance approach and start extensively testing using similar methodologies you have used, but inserting their own "needs". Great job over all and very entertaining. As I've said before, there's a reason why you're channel gets my only monetary suppport.
I mean, you make a pretty good argument but I feel like it's kind of irrelevant at this point. If you've been following the more recent developments, it's pretty obvious that the next US service rifle is going to be a significant departure from the AR platform, and probably even from traditional small arms in general. The US DOD and UK MOD I'll probably just going to stick with a few rounds and upgrades to the current platform, just to keep it up to speed until the next generation rifle comes online. There really isn't any provision for them to go to a WWSD rifle (as it would effectively mean that have to buy entirely new guns).
Unfortunately, their 'needs' are often times exaggerated. They have high requirements and standards. Some might say impractical, but that's a different area entirely.
But the buffer assist was a mistake across the board.
I have really enjoyed these videos... I'm bummed that this is the last one.
Oh yeah, have y'all noticed that the components chosen are all out of stock :)
I loved this series. It's what got me into InRange in the first place - a buddy of mine showed me the first WWSD video and I was hooked. Sad to see it go but there really is only so much they can talk about with these guns.
And yeah - I find it quite compelling how hard it is to find these parts. Perhaps Ian and Karl will've Started Something here. I'm already seeing 'Ultralight' manufacturer rifles on the market, Faxon just released what amounts to an in-house WWSD carbine they pushed hard to get (just) under five pounds unloaded/no optic. InRange may not have *started* that trend but I imagine they helped emphasize it.
Have you missed that they said they will try to do follow up videos and putting guys with experience behind the gun ? Also I doubt that this is the last we have seen of these guns. Certainly many more event videos will feature them.
I feel that. I’ve got a completed AR, aside from the barrel. I’ve been waiting over a month for the 16” 5.56 gunner barrels to get back in stock, and I guarantee it’s because of this series that they’re in such high demand
Firstly OpticsPlanet! OpticsPlanet! OpticsPlanet! and use IRTV5 for 5% off I bought almost everything from them. Ill break down everything below
Aero Precision Upper without forward assist - Wing Tactical
Geissele Super Charging Handle - OP
Faxon Barrel Perm Flash Hider, 14.5″ PENCIL, 5.56 NATO - OP
MWI Low Profile Gas .625 block - OP
MidLength Gas Tube - OP
Faxon 13″ Carbon Fiber Handguards - M-LOK - OP
Bolt Carrier Group - OP
Holosun H503C Circle Dot RDS - OP
GWACS Polymer Lower - KE Arms (only black :( )
KE Arms SLT1 - KE Arms
KE Arms Safety - KE Arms
JP Silent Capture Spring - OP
Norgon Ambi Mag Release - Wing Tactical
PDQ Lever - Teal Blue
all other accessories (sling, sling loop, inforce WMLX, M-LOK pic rails, at Optics planet.
I will amend this by stating some of the items at optics planet may not be in stock, but they allow you to purchase them which for me is preferable to faxon or aero's websites which have a notify me button. for example I got a notification that aero had the upper back but when I checked the site (4 hours after email recieved) it was out of stock.
This was a great series. Well thought out and nicely analytical. Less balls and more brains. Refreshing in the gun world and very informative. Keep on going!
Which is exactly why I love these guys. They're pretty much just informational, with no american nationalism and "yee-haw"-behavior.
Cohac yes they neither try to shame nor try to be tacticool. They are being scientists about the topics imo. Start with a hypothesis and test it with data. Fantastic.
@@Cohac 😂😂😂😂 NOW THAT'S FUNNY.
4:00 looks like a still shot from a new Tarantino buddy Western.
These cinematic black bars are getting so thick that I feel like I should be watching this at an independent movie theater.
I'm assuming your next series is going to be called "What would Fellini do?"
Watch Ian hit himself in the face with his rifle at 27:05. Played it nice and cool...
The slight smirk after says " Play it cool Ian, no one will notice"
Luckily it was a lightweight WWSD build, anything else would have chipped a tooth
hahaha
AND the 80% polymer lower. Leftists are trying VERY HARD to take this option away.
@Fawthur Must have intended to respond to another comment -- not sure why I put that here. I was in fact disappointed to find that the unique lower they used doesn't seem to be available out there anywhere...
Karl: The safety's not broken I just have a screw loose.
Everyone else: We already knew that, Karl. We've seen your Varestuleka videos.
This feels like watching the series finale of a beloved TV show.
Thanks for narrowing down the plethora of ar add on and aftermarket parts for a lightweight build. Your in-depth discussion of why you picked each part was informative. Also helping me come up with the right questions I should be asking myself before I commit to a purchase.
As for the carbon fibre handguard, it's not that the carbon fibre doesn't absorb heat, it's that it doesn't conduct heat. As for that not being important in cold weather, that is actually a very important aspect in cold weather. Steel for instance, will conduct heat away from your body, 9300 times faster than air of the same temperature. At say -40C/F, touching steel will instantly hurt, the same way touching a scorching hot frying ban will and even a short exposure, can kill the tissue, that comes into contact with the metal. For me as a competition shooter, at competitions that are below the freezing point, keeping my hands warm, is my number one priority. That entails stuff, like keeping my handgun under my clothes, as close to the body as possible between stations (others use insulated bags with hand-warmers next to the guns grip), and having enough magazines pre-filled to run a complete competition, without having to fill up any mags.
I wish Magpul would get on the polymer lower idea.
Matt That is a polymer lower I would actually trust.
I would imagine it to be something like an MOE AK triangle stock molded into a K grip and then the lower. It would have metal reinforcement where it matters. It would have more features than the GWACS. It would be more expensive. But it would be nice and worth it.
If they went with a triangle stock, I don’t see why it would be heavier; or the weight savings would be rolled into more metal reinforcement.
Magpul is never going to make serialized firearms unless they have a dramatic change in business model.
SinistralRifleman Perhaps they could do what they did with the ACR, and design and develop the rifle, and then license it to an established firearms manufacturer for production (and hopefully they would pick someone far more competent than Remington or Bushmaster).
Also, if they make a number of significant improvements that I think are necessary, it's probably not an issue if it weighs a _little_ bit more (you could still easily get a sub 6-pound rifle). This GWACS lower is a solid proof of concept, but it's severely lacking in a number of aspects
This was a fascinating video series. Turned me on to the GWACS lower, which I now love. Really excited for the Lever Gun video series.
How did you get your hands on a GWACS lower? I cant find any fir sale at all
Canadian Army is still using a combined massive frag vest/plate carrier. It is bulky and restrictive, and I would be tempted to argue that the collapsible stock on our C7/C8 is ESSENTIAL with the armour, and sometimes added on that is heavy winter jackets and things such as that.
My civilian guns, I don't care. If I wear armour, it's a plate carrier. I don't care if I can collapse my stock then.
Also: Metal rails in the arctic are bad juju. The less temperature transfer in something I have to carry, the happier I am.
You can wear gloves that are totally suitable for -40 with windchill, if you don't carry a gun, and have them all of a sudden be woefully inadequate with the gun. I hate hate hate hate carrying metal bullshit in that weather.
Agreed, at 5'6" shooting an M16A4 with an IOTV on with plates in it is ridiculously difficult. Even an M4 with the stock only a couple clicks out is annoying.
Good point. Thank you for serving.
I imagine these points also hold true in many other countries north of the 49th parallel. To any non-Canadians: even relatively southern Canadian cities can get ridiculously cold and regularly get 2 feet or more of snow; for example, one day not too long ago, Calgary (not far from the US border) tied with the South Pole for the coldest place on Earth (around -55° C).
Understandably, I don't think Karl and Ian get much chance to shoot in those conditions in Arizona. I hope they eventually take a trip and try out inclement shooting conditions up north somewhere during the winter (even though the weather is what many of us here take trips to get away from).
When you say you don't like metal rails, what exactly are you suggesting as the alternative?
The Canadian method of staying with the traditional plastic handguard but using that small little 3-way mounting block on the gas block? That's severely limits the number and type of additional items you can mount on your rifle. For some units/militaries that's a complete no-go?.
Using one optic (which is, until recently, a remarkable luxury! Cue kids these days comment) and no flashlights/fancy foregrip in conventional warfare scenario is a tiny price to pay, for not having your skin freeze to metal and rip off/muscle shake violently or seize from great cold. I like my skin and motor coordination more than my flashlight/tactical laser/foregrip/MILSTD1913backscratcher tyvm.
Einsatzgruppen Commander I totally agree on our current system. It's woefully outdated.
I imagine a metal handguard with a coating to prevent heat transfer, or a carbon fiber as shown, or really anything that provides SOME help against cold would be acceptable. I don't much care the attachment system, obviously M-lok would be ideal but even a cheese grater could be fine too. As Aaron Quak said, skin is more important than ergonomically perfect mounting points.
This is really the ultimate civilian rifle, if I had to choose one gun to have it would be a WWSD AR15
Ehhh. I would go with the longer barrel.
@@operator8014 Then you can
@@weasle2904 That's true.
@@operator8014 16" is the way to go.
@@gnrfan713 Here I am with my 10 pound AR with a 20" barrel...
"Why has the AR become a 12 lb behemoth thing?" he asks. Because the tacticool guys need the extra weight to reduce recoil....
Magpul should make a polymer lower like that. With that name and quality they would sell so many. Might even change people's thoughts on polymer lowers.
Magpul has some of the best polymer in the industry and they could do modifications like removable pistol grips and adjustments for LOP among other things.
I don't know how ke would feel about joining Magpul for support during the lawsuit
With respect, I personally have had to deploy my BUIS during qualification on the range prior to deploying. I really hear what you're saying about modern optics, BUT when/if your red dot M68 CCO fails for whatever reason- mine was for batteries- you REALLY do not want to be potentially on a two-way rifle range with a blind rifle. For your purposes- YES I agree- Holosun is a fantastic red dot, but for me personally, I will have some for of BUIS.
Did you just literally never change the batteries on that thing? They have a battery life of years. If you don't put at least new batteries in your rifle at the beginning of your deployment then that's on you.
"you can't Grok this" In 2020 i Grok it. and i'm probably the only person that got that reference.
No, no you weren't. LOL
Too bad Karl didn't also throw in "On the bounce" when discussing dynamic movement.
No you weren’t.
With red dots ( Aimpoint or EOTech variety). I run a fixed front. Try it out. It’s significantly faster for me. Also with a lot of reps and good consistent contact points it’s possible to be very accurate just using the front sight. Especially through the tube of a down/off optic.
I thought they would mention that. If you shoulder the gun, get your normal cheek weld, and put the target in the center of the red dot with it off, you can hit targets under 50 yards fairly easily. If you add a fixed front sight its even more accurate.
MX5autoxer
Yeah fixed front does a lot. Along with what you’ve said With lower 1/3 it’s affective as height over bore reference in close stuff. It’s a fixed reference for parallax when shooting in tough positions. It helps with speed because it’s fixed. Then it’s an obvious second sighting system. Underrated setup for sure.
InRange, now in Panavision!
Adds a spaghetti western feel
Incredible, it's about as light as an M1 Carbine
Yeah. To put it in perspective, that AR15 weighs about the same as two 1 liter cartons of milk plus one glass of milk.
Well, it was originally supposed to replace the M1 carbine in Air Force service, while bringing a more effective cartridge into the mix. It may not be my favorite rifle design, but it certainly does what it was designed to do when configured properly.
Okay it's been awhile since I've watched any westerns but the framing and aspect ratio makes me think Ian and Karl are about to go down swinging
Great job. Very informative series.
Thank you for the excellent series. This type of content is why I subscribed to your channel on Patreon.
I also did my own custom AR build. Your build is slightly lighter than mine, but I can live with another 6 oz.
If I had used the polymer lower, 14" barrel, and carbon fiber forend it would almost match yours.
I used some different parts, but we both have created excellent "go to" weapons if a SHTF moment arrives.
Way, way late on this but I'm just now seeing this series and loved watching it. I like the sound of that JP buffer, and I've definitely crossed the BAD lever off the list.
I think it's hilarious that my bog standard budget PSA Freedom rifle with an M4 profile 16" barrel and forged lower with cheap red dot and BUIS weighs in at 5.5 lb. No gee whiz carbon fiber or ultra modern polymer lower here. Call it a "junk rifle" if you like, but it goes bang.
Not gonna lie you guys make a really solid point about modern red dots being pretty damn durable. I run a Romeo 5 because it’s what I could afford and my gun came with some cheap non Magpul poly sights which came loose and then promptly broke when I attempted to tighten them so they wouldn’t wobble. I’ve seen videos of a Romeo 5 surviving some pretty harsh treatment. I think I kinda agree. If you have an Aimpoint or an EOTech it’s that much better. If I do get some MBUS then I likely won’t be able to mount a magnifier without removing it.
Everyone is talking about what would Mikhail Kalashnikov do, but what I want to know is what would Dieudonné Saive do if he made the FAL today?
That would be intresting.
It would be the Scar 17.
Tiberius: The exact same thing, because the FAL is the perfect firearm.
Dean: The AR10, G3, M14, and FAL all far outclass the SCAR 17, especially in the cost category. ;)
Not tilting bolt and optics ready
CK's channel. I love my G3 and my AR10. But they don’t outclass a SCAR in anyway. Not in weight, not in reliability. AR10 comes close in accuracy but now they have the precision SCAR out so that’s a toss up. M14 is outperformed by anything else. FAL isn’t as reliable as the G3 or SCAR or AR as seen on inrange
How about an episode WWSD: suppression. That seems to be the next big thing for the M4...
Will you do a mudtest with your WWSD Rifles?
It would most likely function just like the other AR they mud tested, and if they mud tested these beautiful rifles I'd have to look away.
I suspect they will do better than the standard AR they already tested
They sort of did, only thing that changed is there are even less egress points for dirt. Although I'm uncertain about the ambi bolt release
They are Ars mate, they've already mud tested Ars.. Mud testing another Ar will be no different than the other Ars they've tested.... It would be redundantly repetitive. =]
A lot of people are saying that this is unnecessary because they already tested a standard AR. However, you're significantly under estimating how different materials and tolerance stacking can significantly change reliability. Just the difference in how the fire control group or the buffer operates in a polymer lower when filled with debris might completely change the outcome (or not). Same thing with the magazine. I think it would be worth testing, though I can understand them being hesitant about wanting to mud up these pretty expensive rifles
Having really enjoyed this build series, I have to admit that I hope we get to eventually see a "What Would Kalashnikov Do?" series for the AK platform.
Not change too much at all I imagine. Kalashnikov wasn't doing anything groundbreaking with the AK, he was just taking other good mechanical things and putting them together in a functional package before almost everyone else. The difference in design philosophy is massive.
Now, a "What Would Stoner Do" AK would be an interesting (and probably expensive and complex redesign) undertaking.
But it would look a lot like an AK.
I hope so, AK are sexy bitches.
I think the differences in design philosophy between Stoner and Kalashnikov make it so Stoner is a much more interesting figure to look into, but I do think it'd be cool if InRange atleast took a stab at a "WWKD" project and see how it goes.
With Kalashnikov, he was more about making a rifle that could put as much lead downrange as possible without fail and while also being a cheap/simple design to manufacture. He did design one of my favorite rifles of all time, so I have alot of respect for the man, but I doubt a "WWKD" project would result in any revolutionary ideas/perspectives, considering his entire emphasis was on mass-manufactured, rugged rifles and he didn't seem to place much thought into refinement, things like ergonomics, precision accuracy, low weight, etc seemed to not be a huge deal. I'm not sure how much of that was Kalashnikov just building the rifle the Soviets wanted, or how much of it was his own idea of what a rifle should be however, so maybe it would be worth taking a look.
Either way, regardless of my preconceived notions about it, I'd watch every damn video of the series!
Skogi, I would also watch a "What would Stoner Do" AK series, but I have to wonder if there are any options for low weight parts like the GWACS lower or the Faxon pencil barrel on the market for the AK. It'd certainly be interesting seeing them try to apply Stoner's design principles to it, but I feel like the cost and availability of parts might not be there for it to be realistically possible.
My grandfather recently passed; when we were going through his rifles I checked out his scopes. They were mostly Leupolds so not junk, even they weren't absolutely top end.
Comparing those 1960s-1980s scopes to even lower end optics today was eye opening. We've come a long way
A nice conclusion to a great project. I've learned many new things about firearms and ways of thinking that I really have to thank you.
In regards to opinions of other people, I would like to see Larry Vickers and Nutnfancy shoot the WWSD rifle.
Huh, I thought nutn died in a Cerakoting accident.
I don't get it? No light weight bolt carrier group? Titanium adjustable gas block matched with a light weight buffer spring? Would you figure saving weight there makes the gun less reliable?
They used a captured buffer for reliability because of the pin possibly breaking and getting into the FCG, and the lighweight carrier just rubbed them the wrong way with all of the material that was being removed and would recommend a full auto capable carrier or semi one because of reliability.
Can’t we look at the SR-15 as exactly what stoner would do?
Sure, but he died in 1997 so there has still been over 20 years of additional new development since then.
I have loved this series! Thank you for the information and experiences. Tax return might need to be turned into a WWSD rifle for myself.
Allow me to give a specific rebuttal: For line infantry I would argue that backup iron sights are essential. Reason: you can not go back to the armorer to get your optic fixed and you have no say in how long you are deployed.
I somewhat agree but at that point - just put them in a case and throw the case in your bag. I do absolutely see the argument for having them on your person but just like with the bipot for Karls and Ians application - being able to put it on n a moments notice is great but having it on the gun 24/7 is too much of a downside.
BIIGtony If the sights are going to be in your bag, why not just pack a spare optic with a QD mount?
BRWaldo97 I thought soldiers were in charge of buying their own optics? But yes, cost (especially with an Elcan or ACOG) can be a problem.
Soldiers rarely get a say in what weapon they get or what is on it.
I was the armorer for a company that deployed to Afghanistan in 2013. Far as the weapon itself, no changes. Things like firing pins, bolt carriers, etc, were not replaceable other than by me or trained weapons maintenance personnel.
For attachments like grips and optics, most of my company had invested in some kind of personal item. I had a Knights Armament foregrip on my M4. A few squads worth of people had various combinations of foregrips, slings, lights, and all manner of stuff on their rifles. I didn't mind so long as it fit on the racks since I would recognize certain combinations for certain people and wouldn't have to hunt around.
A few people did have a personal optic, in the event they were issued a rifle capable of accepting it and not given a corresponding optic to mount. I still issued optics to more than half of my company, mainly ACOGs and M68 CCOs. Our machine gunners had their own optic type that was issued, can't recall the nomenclature.
"Some $450 beater rifle that you probably don't want anyway."
I don't think the cost of the WWSD is crazy, but this comment is, to me, perhaps ignoring the current state of the market. Brownells has had Aero Precision complete rifles with mid length gas systems for ~$550-$600 pretty regularly. You don't have to buy a DD or BCM to get what is a pretty nice rifle. Now it won't be as light as this, but it also won't be as expensive (and I totally get you have to add in the optic and other component costs).
Is the cost worth the weight reduction? It may well be. My point is merely the market is very competitive currently. I think a lot of these weight saving elements could be applied individually and still yield some results to go with the philosophy of weight savings.
This lower plus any 200 complete upper makes a light Sub 450$ gun.
6:43 It's my not so humble opinion that back up mechanical sights are vitally important for a fighting rifle. Not because an optic can fail, although that's possible. But because an optic that gets smeared with mud, oil, blood, snot, vomit, or whatever smegma you run across becomes nearly useless. There's just no quick, dependable way to clean it. So the only way to get the rifle back in the fight is to strip off the optic.
Would you have any interest in bringing back the longer barreled gun, or looking into a slightly heavier profile barrel in order to look into an automatic rifle concept similar to the M27? Something designed to be a base of fire for suppression using short bursts of fire but much more maneuverable than an M249?
I'd argue that, unless used as part of a proper MG team, a magazine-fed weapon is far superior to a belt-fed weapon, due to the tendency of a single man to become task-saturated.
When guys running channels about historical firearms tell you that you don't need backup iron sights and that rail space is more valuable - you gotta agree
What is the reasoning behind the aspect ratio?
I'm genuinely curious btw.
Focus on content instead of 5:53 ANTS ON GROUND
Ultrawide is great but you should upload it without black bars. Now i have black bars on the left/right/top/bottom in fulscreen on 21:9 monitor.
InRangeTV now we have to notice the specific way the wind shifts the brush at 18:13
InRangeTV Now I want to see those ants... GIVE US THE ANTS!
InRangeTV The wide angle was really pleasant. I noticed it right off the bat and thought you were going to make a joke about spaghetti westerns.
Okay, I realize someone else has probably said this: I understand Ian reasons on why the 14.5" "door-kicker" rifle but, I would figure that the add FPS would be welcomed. I have been slowly buying the parts needed for my own WWSD Rifle but I am glad I held off on the barrel. This actually makes me think about barrel length though, at the end of the day I will probably still go 18" barrel. Which the irony is that I live in a thick wooded area and you all live in open desert where I figured our barrel wants/needs would be just the opposite.
(BTW, having just turned 30 today, I figure its time I grew up and got rid of my AR-15 that weighs as much as a M60 lol!)
Get the 18 inch. The range and power is worth it
Thank you guys for doing the research and testing to make this happen!
You gentlemen did a brilliant job, and thank you for the list of components!
I have mine built with the KP-15 and its intense how light and handy it is.
This project inspired me to do my first AR build with not necessarily all these parts but going for the specific lower and something light on the upper. I got a 1-6 and have been waiting on Gwacs for 2 weeks. They seem to be getting popular and have a hard time keeping up with demand.
Menelaos 1-6 what are you shooting pencil length bullets
I sent them an email, they're behind on buttplate production right now. It'll be closer to a month soon.
The CAV-15 Mold can run a part every 60 seconds.
GWACS was out of the machined aluminum butt plates they now use. They’ll be shipping again soon.
Hopefuly all this business will allow tthem to design a gen 2 version of their lower, QD points would make this thing golden.
I've had a pair of Cav Mk2 lowers for about 12-13 years with no problems. One has been used pretty hard.
I absolutely love this project. Kind of sad it is over, but now that it is could you make a playlist on youtube so all the videos are easily found.
Glad you mentioned the holosun in use with your nvg's. i have a pvs-14 on the way and had just ordered both the holosun reflex, and the same holosun red dot youre using and was a little worried about if id be able to mount my pvs on my rifle in exactly the situation you mentioned.
"What would Browning do" when?
i just ordered mine. on sale at brownells.
love the wide cinematic aspect ratio! I've been waiting for the final conclusion, have very much enjoyed the series and the thinking of the project. Looking forward to building my own, thank you for the in depth exploration.
I've seen carbon fiber lowers and uppers available for sale I wonder how well they stack up compared to the polymer variety. A 3 to 4 ounce lower/upper is a significant game changer considering its atleast half the weight.
Shame I cant do this over here in the UK :'(
On that note however we can get 22rim fire semi autos, so maybe I could get an MnP 15-22 and do this, or is it not compatible?
RockHumper haha, yeah rather sadly I don't see us getting any more freedom in anything (not just firearms) anytime soon, someone has been sent to jail for making a joke in a video that someone deemed offensive, an elderly man was arrested after killing a man in self defense who'd broken into his home. They're also talking about banning 50bmg (for literally no reason), and banning online knife sales, oh yeah, and airgun licencing. Yeah, no freedom coming our way anytime soon I don't think.
Same here. How tough is legally moving to the US, again?
Pcm979 if I were living in different circumstances I'd move to the us or some European country so I could follow a hobby without having to bend over to the government, however the farm ain't gonna look after itself.
Saiv a loif, bin dat noif.
Sorry couldn't resist.
I think the best thing is that they actually USED many available parts under stress and saw if they WORKED or failed or were neutral
So here is an obvious (but perhaps pointless) question... Is it durable enough for a military unit? And is it cheap enough for some small armies to start looking at buying single components and put them together for a rifle?
This is of course a civilian version, but the idea of choosing the single components for an effective (great) rifle, that is perhaps starting to be an option.
an ACOG RCO costs some 1,200 bucks and every grunt gets one, they wear armor that costs some 5,000 bucks, night vision that cost 10,000 or more, ironicly the rifle is the cheapest piece of kit they have.
Sure.
I was just wondering, if one can get a lighter rifle, that is in many ways just as good, if not better than many of the current rifles serving, elite units such as US Marine corps or Royal Marine Commandos in theory might be better off, with their armuroers assembling kits into these rifles...
If one can get a better overall rifle, and it doesn't cost three or four times as much, then that might be worth looking into... For an army like the Danish or Norwegian that has somewhat few military unit, the option of getting parts from different manufacturers might start to look better, than a rifle that weights twice as much (or more).
Curious if the new magpul bipod might make the cut when/if it gets released. Looks compelling...
If only gwacs still made stuff
KE arms is just starting up new manufacturing of a gwacs style lower. They are supposed to start shipping first quarter of 2020.
Any chance you guys will do a WWSD .308 version?
Like a lighter and more affordable version of the SR-25 M110.
Man my mk18 mod 0 clone weighs 8lbs sheesh
my M16A4 clone weighs 12 pounds with an Acog on it and nothing else.
I think you guys have nailed it - modern materials, light weight and keeping the spirit of the original AR-15 concept. So impressive, you have designed/assembled a gun that is probably the best AR ever! Well done!
I just revisited this video - wondering about military applications. So the polymer lower, maybe not robust enough for that usage...what about a carbon fibre equivalent?
I'm very interested in seeing a "What Would Cooper Do?" series centered on the Scout Rifle. Especially in response to the legions of people screeching about bolt guns not being obsolete. I kinda just imagine a modern Scout Rifle would be some kind of AR10 with a 16 inch barrel or something like that.
I was interested in the bi-pod predicament that you guys ran into. It seemed rather limiting to go with a 'traditional' under barrel style instead of something like the FAMAS' side mounted legs. After doing a bit of research I came across a Picatinny Side mount bipod made by Command Arms. They can be had in different lengths and can be quick detach too. Just a suggestion, would be curious to see what your thoughts on them would be.
If you need back-up sights, the irons are so small and light you can carry them off the gun and install as needed.
If you zero them before your optic and witness mark them, you do not.
This project was fascinating. The design excerise, the historical thought, the defined goal, and the process were all very well presented, and I love the end result.
The extremely responsible & historically respectful, and culturally respectful (Aussie) attitude you present is also deeply appreciated.
Coming into this late, having recently found you. I'm Aussie, and have been interested but not in position to have a gun hobby. Even then, this was really great & I'd love to try one. Not likely to, but...
If the enemy has NVGs, they'll be able to see the light emitted by your NVGs if they are mounted to the rifle and left on.
Mate, if they have NVG's and they can see the small amount of light emanating from the sight, then they can see you anyways. The point they were trying to make is that an IR laser literally is an arrow pointing directly at you that can be seen for miles around, as opposed to a small plume that you would only see if you were looking directly at the gun anyways.
I think with the world of fun accessories out there, people forget sometimes that a rifle can at times be what it isn't. In the sense that there's just something very nice about a very simple and minimal rifle.
Tape your BUIS to your bayonet...then leave them in your A-bag...
This was a most interesting project. Taking into account the historical and practical knowledge in the field have created a great reference to assemble a well rounded piece. Very interesting from manufacturing to practical handling and efficiency.
Try a glass optic in a wet and misty environment and you might change your mind about irons. After all, the front sight can be folded down out of the way and the rear carried in your bag like any other small bit of gear. It isn't just a matter of electronics being more subject to fail in a humid environment, but the glass itself will constantly be fogged, beaded with moisture even when the electronics continue to work. I don't disagree at all with your trust in new electronics, but as backups go, irons are inexpensive, weatherproof and small enough not to be a carry concern.
I live in Virginia, we have a lot of 90% humidity 90° days. Even during extended range sessions the only scope I've had fog up on me is a Tasco 4x my grandfather bought in the 80's (granted that's out of a sample of three scopes in total). Besides, if that's a concern just get an open reflex sight like the EOtech or the Holosun 510. That way the optics would only fog if they're cold
I've got a lot of hours with a steyr aug glass sight as issued standard (old school fixed scope) never had it fog up ever. I guess it could happen but I've never seen it.
They shouldn't fog if they're sealed correctly. (Hint, your car *isn't* sealed correctly)
Any good optic won't fog, i've never once heard of an ACOG or similer cost optic have issues like this.
This is why good optics are sealed and filled with nitrogen.
I wasn't referring to an internal leak and subsequent fogging, but rather to wet glass itself. I spent most of my life in coastal Alaska and trust me, when hunting there you will either have BUIS or wish you did.
It’s worth mentioning that I’m 5’3” so I do actually need an adjustable or very short length of pull stock... I mostly like your guys’ videos, but people have different body types and it seems you’ve overlooked that.
Karl really hates bullpups rifle,
Could you both shooting a Steyr AUG and make a review?
Too Austrian, needs more Australian; get a Thales F90.
Needs more French; do a series on Ian's FAMAS.
They already did an aug and a famas.
Ok, the reason you prefer rifle mounted NV is because you only do stuff on the range, where everything's straightforward (literally) and you know where everything is.
The work of infantryman or SOF operator is a far broader in scope than just "shoot that target that's in front of you". They have to navigate their environments, maintain situational awareness, detect, recognize and identify threats and non-threats along a 360 degree traverse etc etc etc. None of this applies on a civilian shooting range. If you're just going to stand there and shoot at a target that's in front of you on a range then yeah, mount your NV on your rifle. If you're actually going to perform the duties of a soldier, you need to be able to see - and not just at where your rifle is pointed.
Karl, How many doge coin do you want for that rifle of yours?
One thing to keep in mind with the weight is that it's harder to carry things with your arms than your torso. It's not 1 lb of gun vs 1 lb of ammo, it's probably more like 1 lb of gun (in your hands) or 2 lbs of ammo. Guns should be as light as possible because they're more awkward to carry.
Compare the AR to the KAC SR15 since it was Stoner next evolution of the AR platform
A little late to the game, but with the PVS-14 idea... if it's mounted on the rifle and the eyecup isn't fully seated against the eye, people with NVG's will be able to see the light from the image light up your face. If you're going to use NVG's with sights and not use lasers, I would suggest using an eotech which you can use with a helmet mounted night vision goggle
Had to re-watch the video you're selling them now in 2020
Me too man. I rewatched the whole series.
Hey Karl did you guys dimple the faxon barrels for the midwest gas block? Thanks
Now I'd like to see a new relevant project, What Would Stoner do if he lived in New York?
Nothing more to say I guess
Get the frick out there!
Ironic that the AR was developed by Armalite in Hollywood, California.
He would have stayed and fought to the bitter end. Don't flee, because if you do so the anti-gunners will follow you and enact the same restrictions in your new state (just look at Oregon, Nevada, Colorado, and Vermont as examples).
I think InRange is planning a series on “what to do if in a restricted state”. There are options like fixed-mag AR, featureless AR, Area SCR, lever gun, SKS.
Thank you for that project, very interesting endeavor and necessary reflection about what was the primary vision of this rifle.
I would rock the 10" handguard, less weight and you don't need the space anyway.
You guys should compare these rifles to the KAC SR-15. People say that it's the rifle that is the true next generation of AR15
Herbie Shin true
AFAIK the biggest advantage of the SR-15 is the 'E3 enhanced bolt' with rounded lugs.
www.knightarmco.com/weapon-features/e3_bolt/multilug_impoved
From an engineering standpoint, they do seem much less likely to suffer from cracking around the base of the lugs (resulting in lugs shearing off), or from the squared corners of the lugs chipping off.
I'd bet if you built two bolts with exactly the same steel with exactly the same heat treat, the E3-style one would have a longer lifespan, (I'm unsure of how noticeable that increased durability would be if you're not firing full-auto semi-regularly).
However, while KAC sells the E3 bolt standalone, they don't appear to sell E3 barrels standalone, only selling them as a complete upper.
Bolt: www.knightarmco.com/12983/shop/rifle-partsaccessories/sr-15-e3-bolt-assembled
Upper: www.knightarmco.com/12528/shop/rifle-partsaccessories/upper-receiver-kit-sr-15-carbine-mod-2-14-5-barrel-urx-4-m-lok
It's really the proprietary aspect that kills it. I would be interesting if all AR-18 clones started using rounded bolts and barrel extension lugs and that standardising was retroactively applied to AR-15 parts.
Or the LMT New Zealand contract rifle...
Hardly, the only true next gen AT-15 is the Adcor with the forward charging handle. It only lost out on the new US Army contract due to cost issues
I have just become a patreon supporter at the 10 dollar level. I love what you guys do and I really want to support you.
Or just keep your BUIS in your range bag in case your optic takes a poop on you.
The Weapon Collection In that situation the little plastic magpul sights weigh practically nothing and would be pretty easy to find a place for. In fact, in a SHTF situation I'd argue that having backup sights would be an essential bit of gear to have.
If your stock/grip has a storage compartment, keep 'em in there on QD mounts, wrapped up in something so they don't rattle. Couple grams as insurance against WCS.
Bring a backup gun.
If you have a genuine SHTF situation, you have bigger problems than the lack of a BUIS. And one would hope that one has already bought good webbing with random spaces to put stuff in.
I think with the cost of a Holosun vs BUIS, your better off just buying a second red dot and throwing that in your bag pre zeroed on a qd mount....
"You can't grok this unless you do it"
RA Heinlein thanks you. :-)
Excellent job
Are you all going to do another series like this? I enjoy the progressive testing of equipment and see the data reported.
Is it possible a What would Kalashnikov do / WWKD project - do you think you can apply the same light is fast and fast is good concept to an AK? Or just go buy one of the Jim Fullers guns?
Stefan Wolf yes. Spam this to the top!
The AK wasn't designed like the AR though... The AR was designed entirely around the new "space-age" materials of the time. Aluminum and polymers, versus steel and wood. Not that that's a bad thing, but you just can't build an AK like you build an AR.
I'm not sure there's a lot that could be done without being a manufacturer yourself. The best the aftermarket could do for an AK is furniture and optics right now. If I had to piece together something, I'd basically just be looking at a RD gun with maybe a QD mount for a can, AKT trigger, stock of your choice, and the new KNS adjustable piston if it's as nice as it looks.
Nah, completely different design goals there. For a WWKD project I'd like to see them target lowest cost and highest reliability with fewest compromises.
Thanks to this series my just built AR 15 weighs 6 lb. 4 oz. with the red dot on it. Gotta love those Faxon pencil barrels.
I'm a pretty heavily built guy. I've used a number of weapons - ammo capacity is king, and the lighter and better balanced a weapon the more pointable it is, the easier it is to hold on target for a long period. Also if you're going for a 5.56 at 13lbs you have to ask if you're better off with a heavier cartridge. Really fascinating series.
F
Even though this project has been totally irrelevant to me due to the laws in this country, I Have massively enjoyed the technical aspects and the in depth evaluation of each component selected. Really interesting when the actual component engineering has been gone into. Cheers fellas, great series. 👍
I'm not one of those jsoc/cag hair gel cool guys, but when I was walking those 30k patrols in Afghanistan I sure as hell started to notice my 10+ pound M4 and would have been pretty happy to cary something half the weight.
You guys inspired me to make a similar rifle on my Cav 15 lower. I'm going with an M4 profile Barrel and a Delta point for my red. Additionally I'll be putting some doodads on it because I'm a left-handed shooter but that will be done over time. The idea is to come up with a very light handy rifle
Did Karl quote Heinlein? You don't "grok" this, statement about 23 minutes in. Just another reason I like these guys, some many other reviewers/presenters become one dimensional operators and loose themselves. InRange stays true to who they are. Thanks for the series, I look forward to the next one.
That caught my attention too. This is still one of my favorite channels.
I noticed it as well, am I part of the cool guy club now? To be fair, its a very fitting way to describe what he means to say.
“Grok” used to be used in the computer field, and that is where Karl came from (maybe still is)
could this be built with mid length gas system?
Prototype BMX, yes you can. The Faxon 14.5 barrel comes in mid length gas system.
so, is the next series going to be "What Would Kalashnikov Do" ?
They have talked about this in a q&a. There is little point because a what would Kalashnikov do rifle is pretty much the modern ak's you see the Russians with now.
Oh, nuts. You are right, i forgot that one.
But i still would like to see their take on a "Dream AK" some day...
They've mentioned something about a Lever Gun Assault Rifle.