I think the Mother Talzin vs Kanan discussion at the end is missing a fair bit of the nuance between the characters. Kanan requires a Spectre tag on the unit being wounded by an attack in order for him to get the attack. This limits your support options to Zeb and Chopper, neither of which really set the world on fire. Mother Talzin get's it on any other friendly unit being wounded by an enemy effect. This is a more flexible trigger than Kanan. So yes, if you just look at ideal cases between Kanan and Mother Talzin, Kanan is significantly better, but in practice that may not be the case. You may end up having half your strike team not trigger Kanan's attack (other Primary and both Supports) and it is likely that only 2/3rds of your strike team actually allows Kanan to do the attack.
I find myself coming back and rewatching this video for your insight. I would love to see you update the tier lists again for each category now that we have a little break before the next squad pack releases. Thank you!
With Luke, oddly, I have run him in a squad with Stormtrooper Sgt and Stormtroopers (when not running a Vader); then I put him with another Empire squad. Stormtrooper Sgt is my favorite Empire secondary right now. Usually I put him contesting a mid to rear objective and use him to push other units.
Nice video. It would be nice to see an updated tier list and also what the best full rebel list would be right now. I've been very irresponsible with money so I have a bunch of the rebel boxes.
Fair spread, and fun mathematical system to break it down. And yeah, power creep seems to be sneaking in, but I hate to say it, but the point system they chose is the crux of the problem. Balancing primary budget and secondary/support value while offering serious variables feels so much harder to gage, and I think balancing twice per box is a nightmare, once for the contents synagies, then again for the broader releases (including whatever they have finished but unreleased). I like the system but kinda prefer mcp's point system(and maybe affiliation system) for overall balance.
On kanan/Talzin Kanan always gets to move. Only gets to attack if a spectre is wounded. Talzin moves and shoots the attackers no matter who is wounded (cept herself) so talzin might not alssys attack due to conditions. Kanan wont always attack due to what is wounded. So they are very very comparable. Kanan has to be in a certain stance to dash things and hss to be a spectre to get his own dash. Otherwise hes just as slow as Mama Mind you he can double dash himself so that's cool. Force push only range 3 but shoves 3. Hand is 4 and dashes them. So both do the same job. (Except dark troopers can't br moved by kanan and mother can move them) So again very comparable. Rebels having more units is why kanan is better. That and his df expertise is great.
I've recently got back into the game, and I was wondering if it has balance changes or not 🤔 I'm worried as I wanna play a relatively balanced game but I can't see any changes when I look through the rules/erratas
I love mace box with hunter box it is kinda crazy how good ponds can get if he fixed his dice but i do believe if mace becomes a 7 the whole box. Sky rockets to high A
I noticed you didn't include the Vader / Obi 2 duel box on this list. If we have that Vader, does the Vader/Stormtroopers box still rank that high? I assumed you'd just always use Jedi Hunter over Emperor's Servant when I looked at the initial reveals.
It was purposely not included as it wasn’t a squad pack, but honestly - I think no. I personally prefer to take Emperors Servant over Jedi Hunter Vader in Empire. He is as much of a threat on the board, but the move off the back of wounding an opponent really helps with scoring during his turn. But as always, it’s down to personal preference
I'm surprised you sound so off put by Chewie. He has single handedly protected my Endor Leia in a full rebels list and scored some wounds while tanking hits. Him and the primary you pair him with become a power house imo
I agree! In my very first game with him, he saved both Han and Luke. I just thought of him like a hairy magna. He has to follow a primary and then he can do work!!
I think overall the power creep is pretty minor. If every new release was consistely higher it would be a problem. It feels more like the devs are learning exactly how much flexibility their version of a point cost system can have.
So I agree that ARF’s are S Tier. To be A tier, that would mean that Ponds and Mace were either B or A, and I think it’s pretty obvious that this isn’t the case. So where I put them feels right for me based on the whole box (not just ARF’s)
Feels wrong to score Yub nub higher than the other ewok box? Given that youre not going to play it without the other box. Leia's box could at least theoretically be splashed.
Agreed here. It's a bit of a flaw/cheat due to the scoring system. As a squad, Yub Nub is more cohesive and has the better of the Ewok models, but it's value overall is contingent entirely on the the other box. Meanwhile Ee Chee Wa Ma is very flexible due to Leia and can easily pair with other Rebels squad packs due to that. I feel like if we had some sort of score for that (both positive and negative) their positions would have been flipped.
I am painting, and have only a few games under my belt. Looking for what to buy, but I also want to do commissions that aren’t $400 for one box. Please let me know if I can share and maybe be endorsed by you. I do my best but I also work 40hrs a week, but I would love if painting was my sole source of income. Anyway, had a blast learning and seeking advice. Please contact me if you’re interested in helping me get off the ground!
Hey man, whilst I don't endorse any particular commission painter, we do have a channel on our discord that is for commission painters to promote what they are doing.
Awesome analysis. Thanks!
I think the Mother Talzin vs Kanan discussion at the end is missing a fair bit of the nuance between the characters. Kanan requires a Spectre tag on the unit being wounded by an attack in order for him to get the attack. This limits your support options to Zeb and Chopper, neither of which really set the world on fire. Mother Talzin get's it on any other friendly unit being wounded by an enemy effect. This is a more flexible trigger than Kanan. So yes, if you just look at ideal cases between Kanan and Mother Talzin, Kanan is significantly better, but in practice that may not be the case. You may end up having half your strike team not trigger Kanan's attack (other Primary and both Supports) and it is likely that only 2/3rds of your strike team actually allows Kanan to do the attack.
I just ended painting my first ever expansion which was "Appetite for Destruction" can't wait to play with it.
I find myself coming back and rewatching this video for your insight. I would love to see you update the tier lists again for each category now that we have a little break before the next squad pack releases. Thank you!
With Luke, oddly, I have run him in a squad with Stormtrooper Sgt and Stormtroopers (when not running a Vader); then I put him with another Empire squad.
Stormtrooper Sgt is my favorite Empire secondary right now. Usually I put him contesting a mid to rear objective and use him to push other units.
Great breakdown; I love that you are mathematical in it to remove the emotion. Very useful to show new players who want to come in on a budget
Very interesting list and ideas. Really enjoyed the video!
I haven't played a lot of games, so this is interesting to watch. I am hopeful that the bounty hunter box models are fun.
Nice video. It would be nice to see an updated tier list and also what the best full rebel list would be right now. I've been very irresponsible with money so I have a bunch of the rebel boxes.
Fair spread, and fun mathematical system to break it down.
And yeah, power creep seems to be sneaking in, but I hate to say it, but the point system they chose is the crux of the problem. Balancing primary budget and secondary/support value while offering serious variables feels so much harder to gage, and I think balancing twice per box is a nightmare, once for the contents synagies, then again for the broader releases (including whatever they have finished but unreleased). I like the system but kinda prefer mcp's point system(and maybe affiliation system) for overall balance.
When you were talking about the We Are Brave Squad Pack it reminded me of Billy Butcher (The Boys) talking about The Spice Girls.
hahahaha - love it!
Nice video did you watch the reveal roadmap? I would like to see a video on the rules shown off if possibly .keep up the good work
We'll be doing a few MiniStravaganza videos next week once everything is done with!
On kanan/Talzin
Kanan always gets to move. Only gets to attack if a spectre is wounded.
Talzin moves and shoots the attackers no matter who is wounded (cept herself) so talzin might not alssys attack due to conditions. Kanan wont always attack due to what is wounded.
So they are very very comparable.
Kanan has to be in a certain stance to dash things and hss to be a spectre to get his own dash. Otherwise hes just as slow as Mama
Mind you he can double dash himself so that's cool.
Force push only range 3 but shoves 3. Hand is 4 and dashes them. So both do the same job. (Except dark troopers can't br moved by kanan and mother can move them)
So again very comparable.
Rebels having more units is why kanan is better. That and his df expertise is great.
I've recently got back into the game, and I was wondering if it has balance changes or not 🤔 I'm worried as I wanna play a relatively balanced game but I can't see any changes when I look through the rules/erratas
I love mace box with hunter box it is kinda crazy how good ponds can get if he fixed his dice but i do believe if mace becomes a 7 the whole box. Sky rockets to high A
I noticed you didn't include the Vader / Obi 2 duel box on this list. If we have that Vader, does the Vader/Stormtroopers box still rank that high? I assumed you'd just always use Jedi Hunter over Emperor's Servant when I looked at the initial reveals.
It was purposely not included as it wasn’t a squad pack, but honestly - I think no. I personally prefer to take Emperors Servant over Jedi Hunter Vader in Empire.
He is as much of a threat on the board, but the move off the back of wounding an opponent really helps with scoring during his turn.
But as always, it’s down to personal preference
@@RichMidGaming thank you!
I'm surprised you sound so off put by Chewie. He has single handedly protected my Endor Leia in a full rebels list and scored some wounds while tanking hits. Him and the primary you pair him with become a power house imo
I agree! In my very first game with him, he saved both Han and Luke. I just thought of him like a hairy magna. He has to follow a primary and then he can do work!!
I think overall the power creep is pretty minor. If every new release was consistely higher it would be a problem. It feels more like the devs are learning exactly how much flexibility their version of a point cost system can have.
any chance you can link your spreadsheet? I' loved the scoring system and would like to see how each character affected the box
Points aside I think Mace's box is A tier. ARFs are an auto include for any GAR list for me. I really like Obi-Wan, Rex, ARFs as one squad.
So I agree that ARF’s are S Tier.
To be A tier, that would mean that Ponds and Mace were either B or A, and I think it’s pretty obvious that this isn’t the case.
So where I put them feels right for me based on the whole box (not just ARF’s)
Is it possible to get a list of the tiers?
Feels wrong to score Yub nub higher than the other ewok box? Given that youre not going to play it without the other box.
Leia's box could at least theoretically be splashed.
Agreed here. It's a bit of a flaw/cheat due to the scoring system. As a squad, Yub Nub is more cohesive and has the better of the Ewok models, but it's value overall is contingent entirely on the the other box. Meanwhile Ee Chee Wa Ma is very flexible due to Leia and can easily pair with other Rebels squad packs due to that. I feel like if we had some sort of score for that (both positive and negative) their positions would have been flipped.
think you're a little soft in your grade of the Grevious box. that box does work
It’s really good, but drops off with later mission packs.
What's making the 501st so bad?
Hera being so low seems illegal, her abilities are game changing
Remember, it’s not just Hera, it’s everyone else in her box. And as always, views and opinions are my own 🤣
she doesnt do much, compared to other options. in a rankings, someone has to be on the bottom
I am painting, and have only a few games under my belt. Looking for what to buy, but I also want to do commissions that aren’t $400 for one box. Please let me know if I can share and maybe be endorsed by you. I do my best but I also work 40hrs a week, but I would love if painting was my sole source of income. Anyway, had a blast learning and seeking advice. Please contact me if you’re interested in helping me get off the ground!
Hey man, whilst I don't endorse any particular commission painter, we do have a channel on our discord that is for commission painters to promote what they are doing.