I feel like he missed the fact that new Vader also has the refresh a force tactic. He spoke like getting Vader recycled back into your deck is bad since force is an issue, when you get one back on his activation.
While you do get one back, it's still slowing down your full refresh. Get one back or get six or seven back? I'll take the six or seven thanks. Plus the one refresh is really only getting him back up to the four force points he should have had to begin with (when compared to his previous version). And on top of that his abilities just aren't that good. Anger is a small dash, costs force, and has a penalty. Unwise costs a force for a single point more damage (compared to Riposte). Both get even worse once he's wounded. His Identity is (almost) purely a negative (forever limping along with one force delaying your full refresh). Only Motivate is any good, and while it is nice, it's not nearly enough to carry him (after all, his problem is when he can't get his attacks off, not when he can). I guess he's also more durable in this version, but durability was never Vader's problem. Frankly I'd put him in C tier at best. If Anakin's biggest problem is that Jedi Hunter Vader exists then Emperor's Vader has the exact same problem.
I personally like that Vader Jedi Hunter is in Galactic Republic. It allows for builds that reflect those times between episode 3 and 4 when Vader was leading Clone Troopers to hunt down surviving Jedi.
This alone would be fine, maybe they could have made some of the Clones Empire to reflect that, it’s that he can benefit from some of the very, very good Identities and Tactic abilities
But from a lore perspective, I absolutely HATE it. He didn't become Vader until after the duel on Mustafar, and the Republic had fallen. So he really should only be Galactic Empire. Vader in the Republic is a contradiction in terms.
maybe making him Empire and an ability allowing clone troopers to be in the squad if vader, jedi hunter is one of the primaries in the squad could be a decent middleground
Generally agree. Personally I’ve found Grand Inquisitor can do some good work when you put the reps in with him (and pairing him with Jedi Hunter Vader works really well), so I’d probably go C tier with him, but I can completely understand why you’d put him in D.
Awesome lists Rich. I wish Assaj had a secondary version like Ashoka, she's good but like Ashoka there are better options. I agree, when more rebels come out I think Leia will bring a lot to the table with a Logray side as her other strike team. I will say this Obi and Mace together is insanely strong. Dooku with Cad another strong list. But I love me Maul and Mother and take the bounty hunters as a support with Maul to do some key word shenanigans to benefit the Dathomir key word on the bounty hunters...So much fun!
I do love me some Grand Inquisitor but as an inquisitorius main, D tier is appropriate. The identity can be really effective if you have a board full of inquisitors to throw the recover to but that means taking Reva and Fourth Sister.
I literally played a game today that was pretty much full inquisiton (except reva, I used the storm trooper sgt) I pretty much have to get carried by vader, Obi-two and 5th brother. They just don't work well on the table top
Couldn't agree more with General Obi-Wan. Glad to hear somebody with some sway in the community sing his praises. There's too many podcasters out there that shove him in C tier. It almost feels like they don't understand his card or the game
@@RichMidGamingspecifically the backbone of “hunker” GR. He might drop in popularity as more GR clones shift away from the “hunker” meta (kinda like the Wolfepack)
When you run Vader and Obi-Want together what are your favorite secondary/support? I was thinking Rex/ARFs with Vader and Jango/Clone Commandos with Obi-Wan but that seems force hungry. For the Grand Inquisitor he seems to do better if he has a lot of synergies. I had tried the following with some success: Vader/Rex/ARFs + Grand Inquisitor/(Obi-Two or Jango)/Fifth Brother
I think to rank these, you also need to look at stances and expertise. It's a big part of the power level of any unit and should not be overlooked and a reason why I think characters like Ahsoka or Assaj are weaker
I personally find Anakin and Ahsoka to be quite strong with Obi. Probably on par with the other Bs. GI is a step below. His abilities are all very limited in scope and costly but his real issue is that the models he synergizes with are easily worst in class outside of 5B
I loosely agree with your overall rankings. The Grand Inquisitor indeed does tragically suck. This game feels still very much in its early days. So many factions like rebels, bounty hunters, and imperials are just barely explored, meaning ranking them is very hard. But i think you're right in regards to Luke and Leia having so much potential. God damn i just can't wait for the Battlefront 2, Rebels, and Bad batch packs. They each will represent this idea in hopefully offering so many more options to mash together.
Honestly, I still don't get why your putting Dooku in S teir. Maybe I'm just not getting it, he gets on a point then gets ignored all game, every game I have played this has been the case. List just have too much movement to get around him, its getting to the point where I'm considering not using him at all.
At the time of recording this, Dooku had a 54% win rate and was the Primary with the second highest. Even now, 4 months on and many releases later, he has maintained that 54% win rate...numbers speak volume. Ranking him now, taking into account all of the new releases and mission packs, he would probably drop down to an A tier for me, but he is still super solid!
I understand why you can't have Vader and Anakin from story, but what is the rule that prevents you from bringing both? MCP had the hero name vs real name to sort this out.
Gonna be honest i think ou give ventress to much credit. yeah she is fast by veeery forcfe hungry. And she does Very little damage and thats rly bad when her identity tells her to kill ppl.
@@RichMidGaming there's a handful, and I say this as the most avid Star Wars fan I know. #1 - most of the player agency was removed from this game (compared to MCP) #2 - there's only 1.5x unique scenarios. #3 - the graphic design and presentation make the game drastically worse. The attack trees are the worst offenders. I have a catalog of MCP stat cards stored in my head. I usually know all my opponents options, including TTCs. Then, it becomes a game of chess and dice.
I totally get where you're coming from, there was definitely a stage in this game where I felt like the random activation order really reduced player agency. However, after more games I've realised that there are a few things that really mitigate this: 1. Characters are much more mobile relative to MCP, so who you draw has less of an effect than how you play each activation as they come out. List building is another area where you can make decisions that will change how much risk you carry in terms of draw order. The combination of the reserve mechanic and wildcard also gives you far more control than you'd think at first. 2. It is definitely possible to get the stats in your head in a similar way that you can in MCP, it just requires a little bit of adjustment in terms of what info you store. It would be really impressive to know every step of every attack tree, but you don't really need that. Generally you're not expecting an attack to go more than 2-3 steps down a tree unless the attacker is an absolute monster (e.g. Vader), so it's all about using a rough idea of how much damage and how many shoves each character has in those early stages, and how likely they are to go further. The lack of missions from the start is a bit of a miss in my mind as well, though I will say that I've played one or two games a week since launch and am still thoroughly enjoying it. I don't think the game is designed for mission variety in the same way that MCP, and instead variety comes from different match ups, draw orders and map layouts. Very fair if you don't find this game your cup of tea, but I would recommend giving it a bit more of a go to see if you start to get that 'seeing the matrix' moment where you start to feel where the player skill and agency comes into it.
@@DurAlvar I feel that. Our local meta didn't last long. It was mostly 2 guys playing. I like that new characters like Luminara/Kenobi that can fix the order deck randomness. Man, the models are gorgeous. Either way, I'll probably keep and paint the Vader diarama for display. It's pretty sick looking. I was excited to think of potential mission ideas. Overwatch type, Steal the bacon, etc.
You lost it when you put Obi over Vader. I notice in all of these videos you aren't using force hungry as criteria. Cool abilities don't do much if they eat all your force so you can't use them. Part of Vaders greatness is that due to his low force usage hes almost as useful when wounded. Windu/Vader is amazing because neither is force greedy.
Looks at all the peope who think GI is bad. I think you mean to say reva is bad and you base your opinion on her. Bringing reva is bad and lowers his win rate considerably. Same with Luke. Boush is lowering win rates. People like their boxes and think they are good. Some are ie dooku box is a competitive box out the hop. Gi is good and in the hands of a decent player wins just fine. Disliking him is fine. Sure. But saying he is bad is just well wrong. He's not your style great you mentioned that. His damage output can and will surprise people. Has the potential to one shot any unit in the game. Has a boardwide ooa movement. Has one of the best melee expertise charts in the game. But no no. Please go on. :)
OK, let me preface this saying (as I always state in my videos), my rankings are based on: 1) My personal opinion 2) Statistics My personal opinion is that GI is not very good, even Reva aside. Yes he 'has' the ability to one shot most characters in the game, but he is naturally rolling 7 dice, so yes possible, but highly unlikely as his Stance card is back end loaded with damage (only getting 3 damage from 3 results). His Identity only works with Inquisitorious characters, and right now, there are only 4 other units in the game with this tag, heavily reducing the effectiveness of this identity (plus one of them is Reva). Temple Records is a niche reactive ability at best, and does nothing against over 67% of the other units in the game and then only works on melee attacks. Secrets uncovered is very, very expensive for what it does. In terms of stats, he currently has a 46% win rate on Longshanks, and in the last 80 events ran on Longshanks, he has gone undefeated in only a single event. And yes, Longshanks isn't the single point of truth and captures every single game played, but its the only source of stats we have, so they are the ones I use. I also want to clarify, this isn't me just trying to beat up on a character and 'jumping on the band wagon'. I am an advocate of playing underrated Rosters of characters and trying to make something work with them that other people have missed, but right now, GI just doesn't have much going for him at all. Maybe with the new wave of Galactic Empire stuff that will inevitable come out (or if we ever get another Squad pack that is Inquisitor focussed), he could get a boost, but for me he is the worst Primary in the game right now. Somebody has to be the worst, that's how rankings work.
playing Obi Wan with Vader is a joke. Even if the game lets you (which it shouldn't) you shouldn't be playing these two together, whats the point in even having factions if they don't make sense ? have you seen the films at all ?
for fun? the whole game is for fun... it's a game? the factions are limiting to a degree but you can literally play any two characters together if you want. that's kind of the thing with this game, or at least i thought it was? you can play anakin with leia. you can play grievous with vader. it's all just for fun 🤷
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 91 | คู่เอก "คมอาวุธ vs อเล็กเซย์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/V0RkEfYFsgM/mqdefault.jpg)
I feel like he missed the fact that new Vader also has the refresh a force tactic. He spoke like getting Vader recycled back into your deck is bad since force is an issue, when you get one back on his activation.
While you do get one back, it's still slowing down your full refresh. Get one back or get six or seven back? I'll take the six or seven thanks.
Plus the one refresh is really only getting him back up to the four force points he should have had to begin with (when compared to his previous version). And on top of that his abilities just aren't that good. Anger is a small dash, costs force, and has a penalty. Unwise costs a force for a single point more damage (compared to Riposte). Both get even worse once he's wounded. His Identity is (almost) purely a negative (forever limping along with one force delaying your full refresh). Only Motivate is any good, and while it is nice, it's not nearly enough to carry him (after all, his problem is when he can't get his attacks off, not when he can). I guess he's also more durable in this version, but durability was never Vader's problem.
Frankly I'd put him in C tier at best. If Anakin's biggest problem is that Jedi Hunter Vader exists then Emperor's Vader has the exact same problem.
I personally like that Vader Jedi Hunter is in Galactic Republic. It allows for builds that reflect those times between episode 3 and 4 when Vader was leading Clone Troopers to hunt down surviving Jedi.
This alone would be fine, maybe they could have made some of the Clones Empire to reflect that, it’s that he can benefit from some of the very, very good Identities and Tactic abilities
But from a lore perspective, I absolutely HATE it. He didn't become Vader until after the duel on Mustafar, and the Republic had fallen. So he really should only be Galactic Empire. Vader in the Republic is a contradiction in terms.
maybe making him Empire and an ability allowing clone troopers to be in the squad if vader, jedi hunter is one of the primaries in the squad could be a decent middleground
@@ratatata3192 That makes sense, since the 501st became Vader's Fist after the fall of the Republic.
But STILL Empire, and not GAR
Generally agree. Personally I’ve found Grand Inquisitor can do some good work when you put the reps in with him (and pairing him with Jedi Hunter Vader works really well), so I’d probably go C tier with him, but I can completely understand why you’d put him in D.
Plo can use his dash even if he doesn’t take the expose so your unit can use his expertise
Awesome lists Rich. I wish Assaj had a secondary version like Ashoka, she's good but like Ashoka there are better options. I agree, when more rebels come out I think Leia will bring a lot to the table with a Logray side as her other strike team. I will say this Obi and Mace together is insanely strong. Dooku with Cad another strong list. But I love me Maul and Mother and take the bounty hunters as a support with Maul to do some key word shenanigans to benefit the Dathomir key word on the bounty hunters...So much fun!
CaDooku and Talzin/Maul are my two favourite teams to run at the moment
Would love a similar video but for secondary charcters
Its a comin!
I do love me some Grand Inquisitor but as an inquisitorius main, D tier is appropriate. The identity can be really effective if you have a board full of inquisitors to throw the recover to but that means taking Reva and Fourth Sister.
Reva is an issue…
I literally played a game today that was pretty much full inquisiton (except reva, I used the storm trooper sgt) I pretty much have to get carried by vader, Obi-two and 5th brother. They just don't work well on the table top
@@Zakee117 I think we're running the exact same list
@@seanmcgarry4527 I ran Vader/stormtrooper sarg/5th brother. GI/obi-two and 4th sister
Really should have got a top 5 Shatterpoint player on to discuss this but fantastic vid
Quinn?... oh wait, nevermind😂
HAHAHAHAHA!
@@RichMidGaming should have added Crutch Tier above S.... I'm guilty of using vader, but others go 4 that maul or mother version
Couldn't agree more with General Obi-Wan. Glad to hear somebody with some sway in the community sing his praises. There's too many podcasters out there that shove him in C tier. It almost feels like they don't understand his card or the game
Backbone of GR as far as I’m concerned.
@@RichMidGamingspecifically the backbone of “hunker” GR. He might drop in popularity as more GR clones shift away from the “hunker” meta (kinda like the Wolfepack)
When you run Vader and Obi-Want together what are your favorite secondary/support? I was thinking Rex/ARFs with Vader and Jango/Clone Commandos with Obi-Wan but that seems force hungry.
For the Grand Inquisitor he seems to do better if he has a lot of synergies. I had tried the following with some success:
Vader/Rex/ARFs + Grand Inquisitor/(Obi-Two or Jango)/Fifth Brother
Either Rex/Ahsoka with Arfs for Vader and then either Rex/Ahsoka with Clone Commandos for Obi-Wan
@RichMidGaming I took the Vader/Obi-Wan list you suggested in two games and in both I won both 1st and 2nd struggles in 7 and 9 activations.
Sounds about right. Except for Ahsoka who does seem to benefit from the scenario pack.
That’s fair, like a say a lot of the time it comes down to personal preference, and if I’m playing GR, I’m playing Padawan Ahsoka!
wouldn't be surprised if we get an episode 3 Anakin at some point
Thoughts on hunter now he is out ?
He’s awesome. The Bad Batch are my favourite group in the game right now!!
I am all about the sons and daughters of Dathmor
Now that Din Djarin is out where would you put him? I personally like him but am disappointed he has some recycled abilities
I think he’s pretty solid. I think the Mando pack will help him a lot as I’m not too sure about IG as a support
I think to rank these, you also need to look at stances and expertise.
It's a big part of the power level of any unit and should not be overlooked and a reason why I think characters like Ahsoka or Assaj are weaker
I personally find Anakin and Ahsoka to be quite strong with Obi. Probably on par with the other Bs. GI is a step below. His abilities are all very limited in scope and costly but his real issue is that the models he synergizes with are easily worst in class outside of 5B
I loosely agree with your overall rankings. The Grand Inquisitor indeed does tragically suck.
This game feels still very much in its early days. So many factions like rebels, bounty hunters, and imperials are just barely explored, meaning ranking them is very hard. But i think you're right in regards to Luke and Leia having so much potential.
God damn i just can't wait for the Battlefront 2, Rebels, and Bad batch packs. They each will represent this idea in hopefully offering so many more options to mash together.
Honestly, I still don't get why your putting Dooku in S teir.
Maybe I'm just not getting it, he gets on a point then gets ignored all game, every game I have played this has been the case.
List just have too much movement to get around him, its getting to the point where I'm considering not using him at all.
At the time of recording this, Dooku had a 54% win rate and was the Primary with the second highest. Even now, 4 months on and many releases later, he has maintained that 54% win rate...numbers speak volume.
Ranking him now, taking into account all of the new releases and mission packs, he would probably drop down to an A tier for me, but he is still super solid!
@@RichMidGaming I guess he just doesn't fit my play style or I am playing him wrong.
What other primary do you generally take with him?
@@mikemee8002 for me it’s Cad Bane. Along with Kalani, Jango, B2 & Magna
@@RichMidGaming I love B2's, Magna guard are great but seem a bit OP
@@mikemee8002 they are one of the best (if not the best) 3 cost support in the game
I understand why you can't have Vader and Anakin from story, but what is the rule that prevents you from bringing both? MCP had the hero name vs real name to sort this out.
It’s stated on Vaders cards that he cannot be played with Anakin Skywalker
It literally says it on Vader's card lol
Read the cards...
Gonna be honest i think ou give ventress to much credit. yeah she is fast by veeery forcfe hungry. And she does Very little damage and thats rly bad when her identity tells her to kill ppl.
Franrkly there is never a situation when i say "i wish i took ventress insted of maul"
Cool 👍
I wish I could find someone to buy all my SP stuff. Boy do I regret this game.
Really? Any particular reason?
@@RichMidGaming there's a handful, and I say this as the most avid Star Wars fan I know.
#1 - most of the player agency was removed from this game (compared to MCP) #2 - there's only 1.5x unique scenarios. #3 - the graphic design and presentation make the game drastically worse. The attack trees are the worst offenders. I have a catalog of MCP stat cards stored in my head. I usually know all my opponents options, including TTCs. Then, it becomes a game of chess and dice.
I totally get where you're coming from, there was definitely a stage in this game where I felt like the random activation order really reduced player agency. However, after more games I've realised that there are a few things that really mitigate this:
1. Characters are much more mobile relative to MCP, so who you draw has less of an effect than how you play each activation as they come out. List building is another area where you can make decisions that will change how much risk you carry in terms of draw order. The combination of the reserve mechanic and wildcard also gives you far more control than you'd think at first.
2. It is definitely possible to get the stats in your head in a similar way that you can in MCP, it just requires a little bit of adjustment in terms of what info you store. It would be really impressive to know every step of every attack tree, but you don't really need that. Generally you're not expecting an attack to go more than 2-3 steps down a tree unless the attacker is an absolute monster (e.g. Vader), so it's all about using a rough idea of how much damage and how many shoves each character has in those early stages, and how likely they are to go further.
The lack of missions from the start is a bit of a miss in my mind as well, though I will say that I've played one or two games a week since launch and am still thoroughly enjoying it. I don't think the game is designed for mission variety in the same way that MCP, and instead variety comes from different match ups, draw orders and map layouts.
Very fair if you don't find this game your cup of tea, but I would recommend giving it a bit more of a go to see if you start to get that 'seeing the matrix' moment where you start to feel where the player skill and agency comes into it.
@@DurAlvar I feel that. Our local meta didn't last long. It was mostly 2 guys playing.
I like that new characters like Luminara/Kenobi that can fix the order deck randomness. Man, the models are gorgeous. Either way, I'll probably keep and paint the Vader diarama for display. It's pretty sick looking.
I was excited to think of potential mission ideas. Overwatch type, Steal the bacon, etc.
You lost it when you put Obi over Vader. I notice in all of these videos you aren't using force hungry as criteria. Cool abilities don't do much if they eat all your force so you can't use them. Part of Vaders greatness is that due to his low force usage hes almost as useful when wounded. Windu/Vader is amazing because neither is force greedy.
I did take that into account overall. Also, with the rules clarifications, unfortunately for Mace their is nothing 'Amazing' about him anymore.
These rankings make sense to me.
Rich, you can't say spoiler alert after the spoiler!
Now Luke's character arc is ruined for me!
HAHAHAHA...sorry (not sorry)
Looks at all the peope who think GI is bad.
I think you mean to say reva is bad and you base your opinion on her.
Bringing reva is bad and lowers his win rate considerably.
Same with Luke. Boush is lowering win rates. People like their boxes and think they are good. Some are ie dooku box is a competitive box out the hop.
Gi is good and in the hands of a decent player wins just fine. Disliking him is fine. Sure. But saying he is bad is just well wrong. He's not your style great you mentioned that.
His damage output can and will surprise people. Has the potential to one shot any unit in the game.
Has a boardwide ooa movement.
Has one of the best melee expertise charts in the game.
But no no. Please go on.
:)
OK, let me preface this saying (as I always state in my videos), my rankings are based on:
1) My personal opinion
2) Statistics
My personal opinion is that GI is not very good, even Reva aside. Yes he 'has' the ability to one shot most characters in the game, but he is naturally rolling 7 dice, so yes possible, but highly unlikely as his Stance card is back end loaded with damage (only getting 3 damage from 3 results).
His Identity only works with Inquisitorious characters, and right now, there are only 4 other units in the game with this tag, heavily reducing the effectiveness of this identity (plus one of them is Reva).
Temple Records is a niche reactive ability at best, and does nothing against over 67% of the other units in the game and then only works on melee attacks. Secrets uncovered is very, very expensive for what it does.
In terms of stats, he currently has a 46% win rate on Longshanks, and in the last 80 events ran on Longshanks, he has gone undefeated in only a single event.
And yes, Longshanks isn't the single point of truth and captures every single game played, but its the only source of stats we have, so they are the ones I use.
I also want to clarify, this isn't me just trying to beat up on a character and 'jumping on the band wagon'. I am an advocate of playing underrated Rosters of characters and trying to make something work with them that other people have missed, but right now, GI just doesn't have much going for him at all.
Maybe with the new wave of Galactic Empire stuff that will inevitable come out (or if we ever get another Squad pack that is Inquisitor focussed), he could get a boost, but for me he is the worst Primary in the game right now. Somebody has to be the worst, that's how rankings work.
playing Obi Wan with Vader is a joke. Even if the game lets you (which it shouldn't) you shouldn't be playing these two together, whats the point in even having factions if they don't make sense ? have you seen the films at all ?
The game 100% allows you to do this...
for fun? the whole game is for fun... it's a game? the factions are limiting to a degree but you can literally play any two characters together if you want. that's kind of the thing with this game, or at least i thought it was? you can play anakin with leia. you can play grievous with vader. it's all just for fun 🤷
@@riverbean18 You've clearly never seen the movies or you'd understand why Vader and Obi Wan being on the same team is a problem hahaha