"Millions of years after you die, some mammals will dig up your bones to learn about you." "What? That sucks! How many problems can I cause them as a skeleton?" "We'll see what we can do."
Finds a transgender “womans” remains, “yep, judging on the on the structure of the hips we can tell without a shred of doubt that this here was a male”
I just revisited Sue at the Field Museum a few months ago. I remember visiting as a kid, but I definitely did not appreciate the specimen like I do now. The amount of disease and damage it endured was stunning. These big carnivores led very rough lives. I love the new exhibit that takes you through geologic time.
I remember seeing Sue in Ohio as she was on tour in the '00s. Never had seen T-Rex bones and absolutely loved her. Later in highschool got to see her again during a field trip.
I remember seeing Sue in Ohio as she was on tour in the '00s. Never had seen T-Rex bones and absolutely loved her. Later in highschool got to see her again during a field trip.
As far as I understand, Sue is actually a bit atypical in terms of T. rex morphology. Now Tyrannosaurus as a whole was a very bulky and robust theropod, but Sue was on another level. Sue had an abnormally wide torso even for the most robust Tyrannosaurus specimens. Due to the wide torso, Sue might actually be a bit heavier than Scotty, though imo both animals are too close in size to define a conclusive winner.
Which I presume was the impetus behind the proposal that she should be considered a separate species of Tyrannosaurus. That said, most species have considerable variation, and it's quite possible that Sue was simply an unusually hefty T. rex. Any species will have its extreme outliers, after all.
@@RedXlV Oh yeah, I don't think there's enough evidence to support separating rex into several species. Even mcraensis stands on somewhat shaky ground tbh.
Not at all unusual, though. Of course his conviction had to do with materials unrelated to Sue; that's also pretty standard when someone is determined to get you out of the way.
A reminder that what big brother wants big brother will manipulate anything and everything around the person they want out of the way until they get what they want, what they never counted on was the public actually stepping in as a whole body to undermine big brother
@@dawsieGood comparison, but the fact that 'the public' has any control whatsoever makes it not entirely accurate. Although, rather than being a comfort, it's actually even more scary, because the sense of saftey that regular people have, and the lack of care of other countries because of this sense of safety, makes a collapse even less likely. It's psychological manipulation rather than overt control, which is even more frightening than the actual story.
I don't think she expected creatures who are so much smaller than her who live millions of years after her to actually care enough to fight for her like this.... I only wish we could get her full life story.... So then she would have 2 lasting legacies.... One after her death and the other what she forged in life...
I just saw Sue in person last Friday when my wife and I were in Chicago for my sons graduation from Navy Boot camp. It is very impressive, with an updated stance on the original fossil skeleton that has a reconstructed skull mounted with the original skull on display in the room ajacent. The original skull is crushed flat during the process of becoming a fossil, but still impressive. The life size statue with the young edmontisaur in it's mouth is in the hall leading into the area with the dinosaurs.
8:10 OMFG I remember watching the prep work as a kid! It was so fascinating and exciting to see the process done in person, especially for such a significant find.
Ditto! I remember seeing Sue's skull being prepped at the Field Museum. I had no idea at the time of all the legal struggles she had been part of. I just remember being mesmerized at the care and process for cleaning the fossil away from the matrix and plaster it had been transported in.
I watched a documentary covering the whole legal battle. It was honestly disgusting to see paleontologists get stomped on because of one man’s greed!!!
5:45 In the US. In other countries, like Canada, fossils belong to the state as they are natural historical treasures. This avoids legal battles, and means that all scientifically significant fossils will end up in museums.
that's just how it should be! Selling ivory is illegal for good reasons so why not make it harder for people to profit from illegal digs? You should have to show that the dig was conducted in accordance with academic criteria in order to sell the fossil at the very least. I would also argue that any academic institution be given first dibs again, at the very least. It's illegal to sell zoo animals too so it should be extended to fossils, something is only worth what someone will pay so notions of price should be restricted to real values to fund the dig for academic purposes.
@Darkstar-se6wc Interesting thing that's sort of related to that- the Fantastic Caverns Park in Missouri was discovered in the 1860s on the property of John Knox, who kept it a secret- because at that time, the Union and Confederate armies were both literally blowing up caves for their saltpeter reserves (bat guano), to make gunpowder. And he didn't want soldiers on his land. As a result, we in the modern day are lucky enough to get to tour a cave with some of the most amazing rock and crystal formations that surely would have been destroyed otherwise. Of course I'm not advocating for hiding scientific finds if it is safe to reveal them, I just wanted to talk about my cave hyperfixation lol
@@erichtomanek4739 We, the community surrounding Sue, believed that the dinosaur belonged to everyone. Pete wanted the dinosaurs at BHIGR to be part of our collective history. He is ever the optimist with larger than life ideas. Sue was never a dollar amount to him. To Pete she was priceless. To Pete she was a person.
I have known Pete since I was just a little boy. He used to write me from prison sharing intricate drawings and theories. Working for BHIGR was my first job out of high school. Pete Larson really loves dinosaurs. Sue was ripped from our community and culture. The little town of Hill City really felt the damage. I don't think the government or the private land owner will ever realize how many people they hurt.
That’s truly incredible 🥲 I’ve heard stories of how he brightened up people’s lives with palaeontology whilst in prison and it’s wonderful to hear another account of that!
@dino-gen I was given the opportunity to work on dinosaurs like Lane the Triceratops and a mummified duckbill (Edmontosaurus I believe.) I grew up working on dinosaurs, but Pete gave my mother and I the chance to grow our love of paleontology and geology, and share it with others. My father even has a couple of specimens in the museum. Pete visited Sue when it was interred in The South Dakota School of Mines after the feds took her. He would go look at the crates through the windows and talk to her. BHIGR really revolutionized and standardized a lot of the field, prep, and molding/casting methods still used today. They were even one of the few places naming their dinosaurs for a very long time. I still pop my head in and give Pete a hug every now and then. If anyone wants more information on Sue and Pete's story he has a couple books and a movie about it. I highly recommend them. Thank you for letting me share.
This is just like the case of the Egyptian government supporting Howard carter in searching for the tomb of Tutankhamen with the written agreement to split the finds among the British archaeologists who funded the entire excavation and among the Egyptian government who laid claims to the land. That type of deal stood for over 200 excavations where artefacts were found and had real historical significance. But had no treasure value they could exploit so they didn't care. The moment tuts tomb was uncovered and gold was involved the Egyptian government disavowed the previous agreement seizing all the artefacts "loosing" some in the process and leaving the British with nothing but their names on the newspaper. Leave it to governments to throw agreements out the window when vast sums of money are involved.
The new exhibit is just a cover story. What actually happened is that a wizard reanimated Sue as a zombie, and they had to create a replica to cover up her absence.
Not quite correct, they got the bones back, but you will notice the entrance to the new exhibit is too narrow for Sue to fit through it, they are just making sure she isn’t used for future joy rides.
Interesting to learn about the legal trouble of one of my favorite fossils. I saw sue in a museum in the early 00’s and recently saw the replica of it at the Disney animal kingdom park. I still remember the sheer awe as a kid of looking at its injuries and just imagining the trouble the thing had in its life. It’s really too bad about the ugly legal stuff though.
In Denmark this wouldn’t really happen. It belongs to the government (our state museum) no matter who found it or excavated it. That’s just the law I bet it’s to avoid shitshows like that
@ they do :) there is a finders reward if you find an item the museum wants. If they have to dig up your garden or something they also will compensate you Edit: there are archaeologist all over the country that are connected to different museums and universities and they also work for the state museum technically and also they are the ones who will dig anything up if you find something strange
this makes me sad skeletons like the complete stego fossil like apex got auctioned off, fossils should honestly get protected under a law that doesn't allow the auction of them and get studdied in a lab instead and put in a museum for everyone to enjoy.
That’s just gonna push their private sale underground and up the price thus upping the incentive. Just like the black market for art and artifacts that already exist.
Some commercial paleontologists do in fact make scientific research replicas to exact details on the fossils available for research, also there's getting to be more commercial paleontologists that have museums of their own and have fossils on display for the public... just putting that out there
@@Limedea I love it when people say "real" fossils lol as replicas are imaginary? Unless there is a reason to cut into an original fossil, why would you need to study one versus a research replica? Every surface detail is there.
I’ve seen Sue many times! I lived in Chicago and the Field Museum was my favorite place to go as a kid. I haven’t been back to see the new look yet but I’m excited to go soon! Great video thank you!
i got to see Sue about a week ago and she is an absolute beauty she was also much bigger than i had anticipated, thanks for the extra history on her past.
I saw Sue at the Montshire Museum in Vermont a few years ago when she was visiting. Very impressive! Pictures just don't do her justice. She was huge! This video adds a lot about her I didn't know. Thanks for sharing!
I've been to the Black Hills Museum many times in the '90s- early 2000's and the grief over Sue was still felt in the museum itself and the surrounding town. There were some ill feelings towards the Fields Museum since they purposefully (it was felt) neglected to invite anyone from the Black Hills Museum to the opening and didn't invite anyone from the team to help in studying her. Happy with the fact that a lot of people would get to see her in Chicago, but definitely sadness and grief over their loss, both for the local economy and the fact that almost no one from the area would ever have the time or money to go see Sue in person. The money paid for Sue just led to infighting amongst the family who gained ownership of her. Locally, it led to nothing but greed, anger and resentment. Sue and the paleontologists deserved better.
This was truly tragic for Peter Larson and the crew at Black Hills Institute. I actually got to see Sue when she was still at the institute just as the legal fight was starting.
Hello from South Dakota! I wasn't all that old when this happened but I remember people talking about it a LOT since I've always loved dinosaurs and everyone made a point to tell me, lol. Sue was a hot topic when it came to who owned what and I'm glad the fossil ended up in a museum for everyone to enjoy. A different T-rex skeleton (or replica) made a tour at the Washington Pavilion in Sioux Falls and that was also HUGE! I hope to see Sue someday!
As a McDonald's employee, I find it hilarious that someone in the upper echelons of my employers wanted to buy Sue. I can see it now. "Can I interest you in a Rex Mac? You want any Dino McNuggets with that?" 9:15 I might go looking for that video. It won't tick me off despite being a Christian, because I believe Creationism and Evolution go hand in hand and aren't mutually exclusive.
Except that creationism isn’t science, but faith. Evolution is a scientific fact, ie an observation of nature, with a body of testable hypotheses to explain how it works. Like the theory of gravity or germ theory of disease. There is no such thing as “evolutionism”. It’s not a belief system, just science.
@@ymirs4400Well, we do live with birds. Non-avian dinos, not so much. As in, not at all. Off by about 66 million years. H. sapiens is only 200,000 years old.
I read about this as it was happening, how it all went down, and that was when I moved from not liking and not trusting government to actual hate, when those feds moved in, took over and there wasn't a damn thing any of them could do....
2nd largest Tyrannosaurus Rex ever discovered Specimen FMNH PR2081 (Sue) Her nickname is Sue She was the largest terrestrial predator ever and she was discovered in 1990 Due to the completeness of her skeleton, size estimates are much closer than usual She weighed between 8.4-14 metric tons (18,518.83-30,864.72 pounds) Hip height between 3.66 to 3.96 meters (12-13 ft) A total length between 12.3 to 12.4 meters (40.4-40.7 ft) She was the largest Tyrannosaurs Rex and largest land predator ever found until her record was beaten by Specimen RSMP-2523.8 (Scotty) (Here’s this just because yes)
If anyone is curious on controversy in the paleontology, I do suggest looking up the ordeal around the "newest" fossil, the Dekota raptor which in short, it was founded by a person who's reputation is already rocky and lets say he isn't improving situations for himself.
Agreed. The idiot judge stole from Peter Larson. Sue should be displayed at Mr. Larson's museum in Hill City, SD, for justice to be done fairly. Plus the millions of dollars, for which Sue was sold, payable to Mr. Larson.
I was thrilled to get to see Sue when I accompanied my child's class on a field trip to the Field Museum a few years after her exhibit opened. She's HUGE! It was very exciting to see the scale of her standing skeleton.
They settled the problem of who owned Sue by putting her up for auction. The Field museum nearly lost her to both Disney and McDonalds, Also while in storage for the trial, the bones were stored next to a furnace. There were pyritized sections that began to expand and contract from it. It was nearly lost because of it.
Disney and McDonald's sponsored the Field Museum to buy Sue. I remember the day the guys from BHIGR went to bid on her. Pete was still in jail. They were outbid almost immediately. It was somewhat scandalous just because everyone at the auction knew BHIGR was there to get her back for our community, but everyone still rolled them over anyway. I remember actually crying when they came home with nothing to show for it. I am glad that she has a place in a museum though.
I hope you make a video on Edmontosaurus and talk about how it could’ve fought back against a Rex attack and how other Hadrosaurus’s weren’t just push overs who can only run away from predators
Sue: For breaking the laws of the Prehistoric Government, I hear by declare you Guilty of the Jurassic court! Your sentence shall be let’s see…. Asteroid hits the earth Sue: Ah, your sentence is 65 million years.
Definitely was an unfair governmental prosecution of said paleontologist. I am familiar with that case and it is absolutely government overreach of the worst kind.
5:24 Something I have oddly never seen any scientists acknowledge in the debate is that "Tyrannosaurus Regina" would be an invalid name, because the genders don't match. It's a rule in scientific names that the genus and species must be gendered the same way, so since Tyrannosaurus is a masculine word, it can't be combined with a feminine species name. This has happened to other animals. A prehistoric monitor lizard relative from Australia was initially given the name "Megalania Prisca," but it was later decided that it was not merely related to monitor lizards, but was a species of monitor itself, and thus a member of the genus Varanus. To match the new genus, it's species name also had to be regendered, making its new name Varanus Priscus.
Is it possible to do a video on the biggest hadrosaurs? It’s hard to find information on shantungasaurus, and I’m curious to see which ones I don’t know about.
Chicago Field Museum deciding Patagotitan should be displayed in their lobby hall while Sue is hidden from public view is still upsetting this day. A generic Titanosaur versus a very complete T.rex...priorities people.
Pete is a good acquaintance of mine and I feel that he was really screwed over. Poor man can't catch a break at all. There is a lot more to the story of Sue, Pete and BHI. But looking at the content of your video and images/clips you used, you saw Dinosaur 13. Excellent doc IMO. Pete and his team really got the shaft in the whole Sue debacle.
Tho Rex has been a overused dinosaur in media, I would love to have a documentary based on the life of Sue and the troubles or keeping her for science. Similar to the ballad of big Al
Used to live in Chicago Metro & would periodically take my kids to the Field Museum. What I remember most about Sue is that from the ground the teeth are fearsome looking, but oonce you've gone upstairs to look at the real skull up close, the teeth are positively frightening. The parts visible above the jaw are very big & sharp, but in order to handle the force of fighting prey, they are nearly twice as long into the jaw. They had a few full length teeth around the skull (their sockets in the jaw had been flattened) that were maybe 10 to 12 inches long. Absolutely astonishing to see up close and realize just how fundamentally dangerous each could be, let alone a mouth full of them.
So, like a year ago, I dreamt that I went into past, dunno how or even why, but I saw Trexes and they were like aquatic animals, or semi-aquatic. Like crocs basically, they would live neaw rivers and lakes and hunt the prey that came to drink. And than immidiatelly after I was in museum saying this to a paleontologist, who was a museum curator also lol. And they didnt believe me (not that I saw living Trex with my own eyes strangely lmao, but that they were aquatic). And than I told him how they behaved, and he went to look on the skeleton and apparently found "the proof". And I couldnt remember in the morning at all what behaviour did I explained to him that was so weird that would have "evidence" in the skeleton Our brains are so strage, at least mine is
Went to the Field Museum years ago. Business trip to Chicago and I sniffled a weekend start to the trip and did some exploring. It’s a great museum. Did the Planetarium too.😊
Peter Larson and his group paid the representative of the landholders. Then, the federal government sent in their hired goons, and surprise, surprise off to prison you go. Sad how that works.
I enjoyed this video, I’ve read just about everything I can find about sue and the Black Hills Institute. I have a scale model of this particular dinosaur in my collection.
I Saw Sue when the exhibit toured the country. I was like three or four years old at the time so I didn't really understand what a touring exhibit was. As such I didn't pay as much attention as I should have, however it was so huge which was just crazy.
I actually saw Sue when I had to go to Cleveland OH for a Shunt revision at the Cleveland Clinic, my mom and I went to the Natural History Museum and Sue is beautiful already but to a ten year old she was even more so, I’d love to see her again!
I remember getting to take a field trip in elementary school to the Anchorage Museun of Natural History to visit the Sue Exibit when it was on loan. I then went back as a teenager to try and see it again not remembering it wasn't a permanent exhibit. But I remember be so fascinated by her skull and wanting to touch the teeth.
I tried to look up if/when it happened and I couldn't find any reliable info on it. Gemini said no twice but then said yes when I worded my search differently. It did happen around 20 years ago so I might be misremembering the trip.
I can appreciate the museums fighting to keep Sue public. Kind of stupid the museums bid against eachother and jacked up the price considering they supposedly all had the same goal. It would be cool to see Sue return to South Dakota but no museum here could ever put up the required money. Most people don’t realize but dinosaur fossils are an important part of Lakota mythology. They probably found larger specimens than Sue long before the western world even acknowledged the existence of dinosaurs
Even if they shared the same goals of keeping it public, they all want Sue to be public in their OWN museum for fame and generating revenue possibilities.
Thank you, well presented and fascinating. Please don't worry about ticking off creationists. If we didn't talk openly and honestly about our observations, for fear of annoying creationists, we'd still be swinging in trees 😀
I just came off a video about a British council government fining an 80 something year old man for littering. He left his walking cane on the side of the road by mistake after helping friends clean up litter. At least here there's a motivation for a governing body to act like a satirical argument an anarchist or libertarian would make for their non-existence, regardless of how petty.
He didn't even care about the dinosaur until he found out he could take advantage of the situation for money. They had paid him more than a fair amount, and I believe it was more than most dinosaurs had ever been purchased for. His sole motivation was greed.
This was such a debacle. The people who FOUND it, who dug it up, and who preserved it, all got shafted. They had PERMISSION to dig on the site, but when the guy who claimed to own that land realized what they found, he claimed HE owned the bones. And then Some native group state led their claim saying they guy was just RENTING their land. It became a HUGE money grab,and the folks who actually did all the work ended up being treated like criminals. Sorry, I don’t care WHO ‘owns’ the land. If someone finds, recognizes, and carefully preserves and excavates something worth millions that would otherwise just have crumbled away thru erosion, THEY ought to get at least HALF of whatever it’s worth. Like finding sunken treasure. Suddenly EVERYONE who did Nothing whatsoever to find it has a claim.
It belongs in a museum should be the battle cry for all fossils. In America there are no protections for the sale and profit of fossils (of course, this country will sell your grandma if it meant making a buck). Sitting in some millionaire's foyer does no one any good. For profit archaeology should be made illegal. I live in the Morrison Formation. I am surrounded by fossils. I always look for them when I'm out hiking. I did find one piece of bone about the size of my thumb, it was a fragment. But it was lying on the side of the trail, more than likely kicked there after years of being on the ground. If I didn't pick it up it would be lost to time and erosion. So, I don't feel bad taking it. Digging into the side of a hill to take a femur is another thing.
The originators of a project, the moving spirits....ALWAYS get screwed by the frothing greedy grabby (the landowner) and the filthy government. I'm hardly surprised that this is what happened to poor old Larson.
Sue wound up in the best place possible, but the things people will do for money ruining people's lives along the way will never reach a bedrock. I remember when this story broke and they tried to make it seem like the paleontologist crew were stealing off someone's land.
I believe the only US law that might have sorted this out is to have gone for a mining claim filling in the unique type of mineral (fossilized bone) being mined. I'm not happy with those laws as written, but I can't think of another existing legal framework that would apply. They would have to file a claim, post a bond for recovery of the land etc. , but the Field Museum would have a legal paper trail and have not left a legal jump ball in the air.
"Millions of years after you die, some mammals will dig up your bones to learn about you." "What? That sucks! How many problems can I cause them as a skeleton?" "We'll see what we can do."
lol
"Those damn mammals! Always causing trouble!" 😂
Agree
Finds a transgender “womans” remains, “yep, judging on the on the structure of the hips we can tell without a shred of doubt that this here was a male”
rearranges my skull and my arm
I just revisited Sue at the Field Museum a few months ago. I remember visiting as a kid, but I definitely did not appreciate the specimen like I do now. The amount of disease and damage it endured was stunning. These big carnivores led very rough lives. I love the new exhibit that takes you through geologic time.
I remember seeing Sue in Ohio as she was on tour in the '00s. Never had seen T-Rex bones and absolutely loved her. Later in highschool got to see her again during a field trip.
I remember seeing Sue in Ohio as she was on tour in the '00s. Never had seen T-Rex bones and absolutely loved her. Later in highschool got to see her again during a field trip.
Oh nice. I remember seeing Sue in the Field Museum myself. She really was something.
I saw sue for the first time last December 2023. Was amazing to see.
They were perfect in their terror before the flood.
As far as I understand, Sue is actually a bit atypical in terms of T. rex morphology. Now Tyrannosaurus as a whole was a very bulky and robust theropod, but Sue was on another level. Sue had an abnormally wide torso even for the most robust Tyrannosaurus specimens. Due to the wide torso, Sue might actually be a bit heavier than Scotty, though imo both animals are too close in size to define a conclusive winner.
Which I presume was the impetus behind the proposal that she should be considered a separate species of Tyrannosaurus. That said, most species have considerable variation, and it's quite possible that Sue was simply an unusually hefty T. rex. Any species will have its extreme outliers, after all.
@@RedXlV Oh yeah, I don't think there's enough evidence to support separating rex into several species. Even mcraensis stands on somewhat shaky ground tbh.
@@dinow269Sue is not the largest specimens.!
@@dinow269 Bertha, E.d cope and Scotty they are bigger specimens boomer
@@rodrigopinto6676they didn't even say it wasn't. Are you really that insecure about Tyrannosaurus?
What a dirty tactic, sending to prison the man standing in your way and ruining his life in the process.
Not at all unusual, though. Of course his conviction had to do with materials unrelated to Sue; that's also pretty standard when someone is determined to get you out of the way.
So disgusting.
A reminder that what big brother wants big brother will manipulate anything and everything around the person they want out of the way until they get what they want, what they never counted on was the public actually stepping in as a whole body to undermine big brother
The country of freedom.
@@dawsieGood comparison, but the fact that 'the public' has any control whatsoever makes it not entirely accurate. Although, rather than being a comfort, it's actually even more scary, because the sense of saftey that regular people have, and the lack of care of other countries because of this sense of safety, makes a collapse even less likely. It's psychological manipulation rather than overt control, which is even more frightening than the actual story.
I don't think Sue ever thought in her entire lifetime that after her death, she would find herself in the middle of a costudy battle
nah, she was too sick to think about anything but survival
Custody
I don't think she expected creatures who are so much smaller than her who live millions of years after her to actually care enough to fight for her like this.... I only wish we could get her full life story.... So then she would have 2 lasting legacies.... One after her death and the other what she forged in life...
I don't think sue would have been able to form any thoughts period
@@littengamer112 Not likely, her only thoughts would have been "where is my next meal?" or "where can I find a mate?"
I just saw Sue in person last Friday when my wife and I were in Chicago for my sons graduation from Navy Boot camp. It is very impressive, with an updated stance on the original fossil skeleton that has a reconstructed skull mounted with the original skull on display in the room ajacent. The original skull is crushed flat during the process of becoming a fossil, but still impressive. The life size statue with the young edmontisaur in it's mouth is in the hall leading into the area with the dinosaurs.
@@Rumnhammer
Not crushed 'flat' - distorted
8:10
OMFG I remember watching the prep work as a kid! It was so fascinating and exciting to see the process done in person, especially for such a significant find.
♥
Ditto! I remember seeing Sue's skull being prepped at the Field Museum. I had no idea at the time of all the legal struggles she had been part of. I just remember being mesmerized at the care and process for cleaning the fossil away from the matrix and plaster it had been transported in.
I watched a documentary covering the whole legal battle. It was honestly disgusting to see paleontologists get stomped on because of one man’s greed!!!
Technically all parties involved showed considerable greed.
USA is insanely litigious and everybody is about themselves.
@@rjlchristieNot everyone, just everyone you've ever heard of.
@@rjlchristie in what country theses days is everyone not about themselves?
@@tommyhoolihan9806 As with most things in life, it's matter of degree.
5:45 In the US. In other countries, like Canada, fossils belong to the state as they are natural historical treasures. This avoids legal battles, and means that all scientifically significant fossils will end up in museums.
that's just how it should be! Selling ivory is illegal for good reasons so why not make it harder for people to profit from illegal digs? You should have to show that the dig was conducted in accordance with academic criteria in order to sell the fossil at the very least. I would also argue that any academic institution be given first dibs again, at the very least. It's illegal to sell zoo animals too so it should be extended to fossils, something is only worth what someone will pay so notions of price should be restricted to real values to fund the dig for academic purposes.
Not true, anything found on Indian land belongs to the native people as especially fossil bones of humans from over 20,000 years ago
Well that didn’t happen here…. Soooo I think you may be a bit incorrect lol
It also means anyone finding a significant find on their land has good incentive to cover it up and keep their mouth shut.
@Darkstar-se6wc Interesting thing that's sort of related to that- the Fantastic Caverns Park in Missouri was discovered in the 1860s on the property of John Knox, who kept it a secret- because at that time, the Union and Confederate armies were both literally blowing up caves for their saltpeter reserves (bat guano), to make gunpowder. And he didn't want soldiers on his land. As a result, we in the modern day are lucky enough to get to tour a cave with some of the most amazing rock and crystal formations that surely would have been destroyed otherwise. Of course I'm not advocating for hiding scientific finds if it is safe to reveal them, I just wanted to talk about my cave hyperfixation lol
Just remember. When money is involved, suddenly enemies are made.
And friends you never knew suddenly show up.
And when your down those people are unreachable, fact!
So true
Dinosaur 13
This is an excellent documentary of the saga of Sue and the people around her.
Ah now the "Lionsgate" watermark in the clips make more sense
@@erichtomanek4739 We, the community surrounding Sue, believed that the dinosaur belonged to everyone. Pete wanted the dinosaurs at BHIGR to be part of our collective history. He is ever the optimist with larger than life ideas. Sue was never a dollar amount to him. To Pete she was priceless. To Pete she was a person.
I have known Pete since I was just a little boy. He used to write me from prison sharing intricate drawings and theories. Working for BHIGR was my first job out of high school. Pete Larson really loves dinosaurs. Sue was ripped from our community and culture. The little town of Hill City really felt the damage. I don't think the government or the private land owner will ever realize how many people they hurt.
That’s truly incredible 🥲 I’ve heard stories of how he brightened up people’s lives with palaeontology whilst in prison and it’s wonderful to hear another account of that!
@dino-gen I was given the opportunity to work on dinosaurs like Lane the Triceratops and a mummified duckbill (Edmontosaurus I believe.) I grew up working on dinosaurs, but Pete gave my mother and I the chance to grow our love of paleontology and geology, and share it with others. My father even has a couple of specimens in the museum. Pete visited Sue when it was interred in The South Dakota School of Mines after the feds took her. He would go look at the crates through the windows and talk to her. BHIGR really revolutionized and standardized a lot of the field, prep, and molding/casting methods still used today. They were even one of the few places naming their dinosaurs for a very long time. I still pop my head in and give Pete a hug every now and then. If anyone wants more information on Sue and Pete's story he has a couple books and a movie about it. I highly recommend them. Thank you for letting me share.
I'm English and the documentary absolutely angered and horrified us.
Greedy bastards.
Science and knowledge should trump everything .
@@darrengriffin8609 Agreed. It was unprecedented. Dinosaurs were declared minerals by the government. We were devastated.
This is just like the case of the Egyptian government supporting Howard carter in searching for the tomb of Tutankhamen with the written agreement to split the finds among the British archaeologists who funded the entire excavation and among the Egyptian government who laid claims to the land. That type of deal stood for over 200 excavations where artefacts were found and had real historical significance. But had no treasure value they could exploit so they didn't care.
The moment tuts tomb was uncovered and gold was involved the Egyptian government disavowed the previous agreement seizing all the artefacts "loosing" some in the process and leaving the British with nothing but their names on the newspaper.
Leave it to governments to throw agreements out the window when vast sums of money are involved.
😞
It was long ago proven that Howard Carter stole several pieces from Tutankhamen’s grave.
Not the governments but the people in the government. I’m sure the money was diverted to private accounts.
The new exhibit is just a cover story. What actually happened is that a wizard reanimated Sue as a zombie, and they had to create a replica to cover up her absence.
Sigh. He’s never going to finish Dresden Files, is he?
@@Darkstar-se6wc If he does I hope it's better than the last book.
You forgot to add that he reanimated her with polka music.
Not quite correct, they got the bones back, but you will notice the entrance to the new exhibit is too narrow for Sue to fit through it, they are just making sure she isn’t used for future joy rides.
Interesting to learn about the legal trouble of one of my favorite fossils. I saw sue in a museum in the early 00’s and recently saw the replica of it at the Disney animal kingdom park. I still remember the sheer awe as a kid of looking at its injuries and just imagining the trouble the thing had in its life. It’s really too bad about the ugly legal stuff though.
In Denmark this wouldn’t really happen. It belongs to the government (our state museum) no matter who found it or excavated it. That’s just the law I bet it’s to avoid shitshows like that
At least the government should PAY the person who found it and dug it up, surely.
@ they do :) there is a finders reward if you find an item the museum wants. If they have to dig up your garden or something they also will compensate you
Edit: there are archaeologist all over the country that are connected to different museums and universities and they also work for the state museum technically and also they are the ones who will dig anything up if you find something strange
Seems smart
idk sounds kinda socialist to me, i prefer finders keepers losers munch lead if they believe they're entitled enough to attempt claim
This story is one of the great travesties of justice in the US court system and part of the reason why I loath it.
Right in there with Kennewick Man.
Sue should belong to all Americans, not profiteering private owners who lucked out. She’s a national treasure.
@@user-wk1mw9nj3i76 Do you work for free? Or do you even work? You sound like a welfare case.
@@user-wk1mw9nj3i76 The landowner didn't even care until he found out how much Sue was worth.
A shaming set of sleazy, crappy events surrounding this poor dead creature.
this makes me sad skeletons like the complete stego fossil like apex got auctioned off, fossils should honestly get protected under a law that doesn't allow the auction of them and get studdied in a lab instead and put in a museum for everyone to enjoy.
That’s just gonna push their private sale underground and up the price thus upping the incentive. Just like the black market for art and artifacts that already exist.
Some commercial paleontologists do in fact make scientific research replicas to exact details on the fossils available for research, also there's getting to be more commercial paleontologists that have museums of their own and have fossils on display for the public... just putting that out there
@@BHPilot82 Aren't you supposed to study the real fossils instead of replicas ?
@@Limedea I love it when people say "real" fossils lol as replicas are imaginary? Unless there is a reason to cut into an original fossil, why would you need to study one versus a research replica? Every surface detail is there.
@@BHPilot82 You prefer to study plastic instead of real fossils from the Mesozoic ?
This video feels "above'n'beyond" in comparison with the other "regular" ones. EXCELLENT!!!
Wow, thanks! Appreciate the kind words and support 🙂
@@dino-gen ♥
I’ve seen Sue many times! I lived in Chicago and the Field Museum was my favorite place to go as a kid. I haven’t been back to see the new look yet but I’m excited to go soon! Great video thank you!
i got to see Sue about a week ago and she is an absolute beauty she was also much bigger than i had anticipated, thanks for the extra history on her past.
I saw Sue at the Montshire Museum in Vermont a few years ago when she was visiting. Very impressive! Pictures just don't do her justice. She was huge! This video adds a lot about her I didn't know. Thanks for sharing!
There needs to be a law all fossils must belong in museums.. the lawsuit is so ugly
Sue the T-Rex, what a brilliant title.
4:59
I'm sure Johnny Cash has us covered there
Oh, my gosh! You are my kind of people! A fan of dinosaurs AND Johnny Cash? More power to you, friend!
It was so cool to see her are a teen in 2009. She was amazing.
I've been to the Black Hills Museum many times in the '90s- early 2000's and the grief over Sue was still felt in the museum itself and the surrounding town. There were some ill feelings towards the Fields Museum since they purposefully (it was felt) neglected to invite anyone from the Black Hills Museum to the opening and didn't invite anyone from the team to help in studying her.
Happy with the fact that a lot of people would get to see her in Chicago, but definitely sadness and grief over their loss, both for the local economy and the fact that almost no one from the area would ever have the time or money to go see Sue in person. The money paid for Sue just led to infighting amongst the family who gained ownership of her. Locally, it led to nothing but greed, anger and resentment. Sue and the paleontologists deserved better.
This was truly tragic for Peter Larson and the crew at Black Hills Institute. I actually got to see Sue when she was still at the institute just as the legal fight was starting.
I love that you call it The Black Hills Institute. Not very many people call it that.
Also sad they weren't even invited for the reveal premier??? Hopefully it was just they denied coming instead rather "forgotten".
Hello from South Dakota! I wasn't all that old when this happened but I remember people talking about it a LOT since I've always loved dinosaurs and everyone made a point to tell me, lol. Sue was a hot topic when it came to who owned what and I'm glad the fossil ended up in a museum for everyone to enjoy. A different T-rex skeleton (or replica) made a tour at the Washington Pavilion in Sioux Falls and that was also HUGE! I hope to see Sue someday!
As a McDonald's employee, I find it hilarious that someone in the upper echelons of my employers wanted to buy Sue. I can see it now. "Can I interest you in a Rex Mac? You want any Dino McNuggets with that?"
9:15 I might go looking for that video. It won't tick me off despite being a Christian, because I believe Creationism and Evolution go hand in hand and aren't mutually exclusive.
Makes me think of huge, "Dino-sized" portions. 😛
Except that creationism isn’t science, but faith. Evolution is a scientific fact, ie an observation of nature, with a body of testable hypotheses to explain how it works. Like the theory of gravity or germ theory of disease.
There is no such thing as “evolutionism”. It’s not a belief system, just science.
How do you rationalise dinosaurs living with humans? 😂
@@ymirs4400Well, we do live with birds. Non-avian dinos, not so much. As in, not at all. Off by about 66 million years. H. sapiens is only 200,000 years old.
I read about this as it was happening, how it all went down, and that was when I moved from not liking and not trusting government to actual hate, when those feds moved in, took over and there wasn't a damn thing any of them could do....
The feds didn't take any care in confiscating or transporting the fossils. The had no regard for the preservation of history.
2nd largest Tyrannosaurus Rex ever discovered
Specimen FMNH PR2081 (Sue)
Her nickname is Sue
She was the largest terrestrial predator ever and she was discovered in 1990
Due to the completeness of her skeleton, size estimates are much closer than usual
She weighed between 8.4-14 metric tons (18,518.83-30,864.72 pounds)
Hip height between 3.66 to 3.96 meters (12-13 ft)
A total length between 12.3 to 12.4 meters (40.4-40.7 ft)
She was the largest Tyrannosaurs Rex and largest land predator ever found until her record was beaten by
Specimen RSMP-2523.8 (Scotty)
(Here’s this just because yes)
There is some debate on which specimen would have been larger when alive. Estimates favor Scotty, but estimates are inconclusive.
The legal battle is gross.
Ikr
Reminds me of “the dig” on Netflix about excavating a viking ship.
If anyone is curious on controversy in the paleontology, I do suggest looking up the ordeal around the "newest" fossil, the Dekota raptor which in short, it was founded by a person who's reputation is already rocky and lets say he isn't improving situations for himself.
The documentary a dinosaur named Sue was fantastic she definitely belongs to those guys who found it
Agreed. The idiot judge stole from Peter Larson. Sue should be displayed at Mr. Larson's museum in Hill City, SD, for justice to be done fairly. Plus the millions of dollars, for which Sue was sold, payable to Mr. Larson.
Great presentation of the T Rex story and also great answer to the whale question! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I can't help but think the people who dug up that T-rex got screwed.
I was thrilled to get to see Sue when I accompanied my child's class on a field trip to the Field Museum a few years after her exhibit opened. She's HUGE! It was very exciting to see the scale of her standing skeleton.
A fine example of government overreach. And remember: you don’t hate the government enough. Just ask Peanut the Squirrel.
"But the government wouldn't do that!"
the squirrel had it coming lmao
And the raccoon
How so? Like this is such obvious rage bait, by that logic your pets also have it coming right?@althedude7730
Nope; Anarchy is worse!
They settled the problem of who owned Sue by putting her up for auction. The Field museum nearly lost her to both Disney and McDonalds, Also while in storage for the trial, the bones were stored next to a furnace. There were pyritized sections that began to expand and contract from it. It was nearly lost because of it.
Disney and McDonald's sponsored the Field Museum to buy Sue. I remember the day the guys from BHIGR went to bid on her. Pete was still in jail. They were outbid almost immediately. It was somewhat scandalous just because everyone at the auction knew BHIGR was there to get her back for our community, but everyone still rolled them over anyway. I remember actually crying when they came home with nothing to show for it. I am glad that she has a place in a museum though.
I hope you make a video on Edmontosaurus and talk about how it could’ve fought back against a Rex attack and how other Hadrosaurus’s weren’t just push overs who can only run away from predators
Regardless who owns Sue, they'll find a way to misuse and destroy her legacy and story
Sounds like Sue could be "the boy named Sue" Johnny Cash sang about. 😊
Ack i just made a similar joke oops...
Sue: For breaking the laws of the Prehistoric Government, I hear by declare you Guilty of the Jurassic court! Your sentence shall be let’s see….
Asteroid hits the earth
Sue: Ah, your sentence is 65 million years.
That was Absolutely Disgusting. Money always brings out the WORST in People.
Q&A: Being warm blooded with extreme resistance to cold temperatures and a brain structured for higher intelligence is a pretty OP character build
Sue was wonderful to visit. She deserved that central location. She commanded that great big museum space. 😊
Definitely was an unfair governmental prosecution of said paleontologist. I am familiar with that case and it is absolutely government overreach of the worst kind.
If you follow the story, it’s the federal prosecutor that should be serving a ten times longer sentence than the person he went after.
I'd love to see a Big Al type story about Sue.
I can’t promise that the BBC are working on that, but that’s certainly what I’ve been working on for the past few days 😃
@@dino-gen Hell yeah!
@@dino-gen
Anyone else strangely distracted by the crown molding on the wall in the background? Great video btw 😅
5:24 Something I have oddly never seen any scientists acknowledge in the debate is that "Tyrannosaurus Regina" would be an invalid name, because the genders don't match. It's a rule in scientific names that the genus and species must be gendered the same way, so since Tyrannosaurus is a masculine word, it can't be combined with a feminine species name.
This has happened to other animals. A prehistoric monitor lizard relative from Australia was initially given the name "Megalania Prisca," but it was later decided that it was not merely related to monitor lizards, but was a species of monitor itself, and thus a member of the genus Varanus. To match the new genus, it's species name also had to be regendered, making its new name Varanus Priscus.
Got to see Sue in person when I was a kid. Gotta say, I was more excited to see that skeleton then I would have been to meet any celebrity.
Maurice Williams should have gone to jail.
@@williamkelly9628 He was a despicable human being.
Disney 100% stole that fossil
Is it possible to do a video on the biggest hadrosaurs? It’s hard to find information on shantungasaurus, and I’m curious to see which ones I don’t know about.
In the works 😉
To say you understated the controversy would be an understatement. Nevermind the later dust ups with the museum of the rockies.
Chicago Field Museum deciding Patagotitan should be displayed in their lobby hall while Sue is hidden from public view is still upsetting this day. A generic Titanosaur versus a very complete T.rex...priorities people.
"Generic"?!! 0_0
Pete is a good acquaintance of mine and I feel that he was really screwed over. Poor man can't catch a break at all. There is a lot more to the story of Sue, Pete and BHI. But looking at the content of your video and images/clips you used, you saw Dinosaur 13. Excellent doc IMO. Pete and his team really got the shaft in the whole Sue debacle.
Thanks for the lore behind this amazing find.
Tho Rex has been a overused dinosaur in media, I would love to have a documentary based on the life of Sue and the troubles or keeping her for science.
Similar to the ballad of big Al
Already been done.
Look up Dinosaur 13, my man
@@atticstattic I know, I just meant something more similar to ballad of big al, where we also see the life of The dinosaur itself
@@thelittleal1212
Gotcha!
Used to live in Chicago Metro & would periodically take my kids to the Field Museum. What I remember most about Sue is that from the ground the teeth are fearsome looking, but oonce you've gone upstairs to look at the real skull up close, the teeth are positively frightening. The parts visible above the jaw are very big & sharp, but in order to handle the force of fighting prey, they are nearly twice as long into the jaw. They had a few full length teeth around the skull (their sockets in the jaw had been flattened) that were maybe 10 to 12 inches long. Absolutely astonishing to see up close and realize just how fundamentally dangerous each could be, let alone a mouth full of them.
So, like a year ago, I dreamt that I went into past, dunno how or even why, but I saw Trexes and they were like aquatic animals, or semi-aquatic.
Like crocs basically, they would live neaw rivers and lakes and hunt the prey that came to drink. And than immidiatelly after I was in museum saying this to a paleontologist, who was a museum curator also lol. And they didnt believe me (not that I saw living Trex with my own eyes strangely lmao, but that they were aquatic).
And than I told him how they behaved, and he went to look on the skeleton and apparently found "the proof".
And I couldnt remember in the morning at all what behaviour did I explained to him that was so weird that would have "evidence" in the skeleton
Our brains are so strage, at least mine is
I have no personal opinion on the way it happenned, im just glad she ended up in a big city museum😊
Went to the Field Museum years ago. Business trip to Chicago and I sniffled a weekend start to the trip and did some exploring. It’s a great museum. Did the Planetarium too.😊
Peter Larson and his group paid the representative of the landholders. Then, the federal government sent in their hired goons, and surprise, surprise off to prison you go. Sad how that works.
I enjoyed this video, I’ve read just about everything I can find about sue and the Black Hills Institute. I have a scale model of this particular dinosaur in my collection.
💕
Lovely❣
Good job man! Love the exposition!
I Saw Sue when the exhibit toured the country. I was like three or four years old at the time so I didn't really understand what a touring exhibit was. As such I didn't pay as much attention as I should have, however it was so huge which was just crazy.
I saw Sue aswell this year! My god was it magical
They should send Mr. Williams a bill for the excavation, cleaning, reconstruction, and analysis.
$8,000,000 seems about right.
As always, an outstanding educational video!
I actually saw Sue when I had to go to Cleveland OH for a Shunt revision at the Cleveland Clinic, my mom and I went to the Natural History Museum and Sue is beautiful already but to a ten year old she was even more so, I’d love to see her again!
Love these video brother just wish they were a bit longer! Haha
I remember getting to take a field trip in elementary school to the Anchorage Museun of Natural History to visit the Sue Exibit when it was on loan. I then went back as a teenager to try and see it again not remembering it wasn't a permanent exhibit. But I remember be so fascinated by her skull and wanting to touch the teeth.
I tried to look up if/when it happened and I couldn't find any reliable info on it. Gemini said no twice but then said yes when I worded my search differently. It did happen around 20 years ago so I might be misremembering the trip.
I can appreciate the museums fighting to keep Sue public. Kind of stupid the museums bid against eachother and jacked up the price considering they supposedly all had the same goal.
It would be cool to see Sue return to South Dakota but no museum here could ever put up the required money. Most people don’t realize but dinosaur fossils are an important part of Lakota mythology. They probably found larger specimens than Sue long before the western world even acknowledged the existence of dinosaurs
Even if they shared the same goals of keeping it public, they all want Sue to be public in their OWN museum for fame and generating revenue possibilities.
Thank you, well presented and fascinating. Please don't worry about ticking off creationists. If we didn't talk openly and honestly about our observations, for fear of annoying creationists, we'd still be swinging in trees 😀
I just came off a video about a British council government fining an 80 something year old man for littering. He left his walking cane on the side of the road by mistake after helping friends clean up litter. At least here there's a motivation for a governing body to act like a satirical argument an anarchist or libertarian would make for their non-existence, regardless of how petty.
I heard about that.
Ain't Britain fun
Fighting over molded casted Rock is crazy work...
What did Maurice Williams do with the $8million? Hand it over to his "tribe" for the improvement of their land? No, didn't think so ...
He didn't even care about the dinosaur until he found out he could take advantage of the situation for money. They had paid him more than a fair amount, and I believe it was more than most dinosaurs had ever been purchased for. His sole motivation was greed.
I have always thought that the finds at a dig, should belong to the foundation that uncovered the artifacts. ❤
Love the field museum
That's why she's called Sue!💚🦖
This was such a debacle. The people who FOUND it, who dug it up, and who preserved it, all got shafted. They had PERMISSION to dig on the site, but when the guy who claimed to own that land realized what they found, he claimed HE owned the bones. And then Some native group state led their claim saying they guy was just RENTING their land. It became a HUGE money grab,and the folks who actually did all the work ended up being treated like criminals. Sorry, I don’t care WHO ‘owns’ the land. If someone finds, recognizes, and carefully preserves and excavates something worth millions that would otherwise just have crumbled away thru erosion, THEY ought to get at least HALF of whatever it’s worth.
Like finding sunken treasure. Suddenly EVERYONE who did Nothing whatsoever to find it has a claim.
He actually did jail time?...What a travesty!
He even taught paleontology in jail. He used to write me letters from jail about dinosaur theory when I was just a little boy.
“This t.rex situation is insane”
It belongs in a museum should be the battle cry for all fossils. In America there are no protections for the sale and profit of fossils (of course, this country will sell your grandma if it meant making a buck). Sitting in some millionaire's foyer does no one any good. For profit archaeology should be made illegal. I live in the Morrison Formation. I am surrounded by fossils. I always look for them when I'm out hiking. I did find one piece of bone about the size of my thumb, it was a fragment. But it was lying on the side of the trail, more than likely kicked there after years of being on the ground. If I didn't pick it up it would be lost to time and erosion. So, I don't feel bad taking it. Digging into the side of a hill to take a femur is another thing.
Did you turn it over to a museum?
Can anyone explain how an animal of this size becomes 90% fossilized when hungry scavengers would have eaten the bones lying around?
Really just depends where it died. Could had been in a position that it was immediately covered in a way that kept scavengers back
For all they ACTUALLY know, it could be a boy named sue
The originators of a project, the moving spirits....ALWAYS get screwed by the frothing greedy grabby (the landowner) and the filthy government. I'm hardly surprised that this is what happened to poor old Larson.
🎵🎵keep away from run around sue.🎵🎵
Sue wound up in the best place possible, but the things people will do for money ruining people's lives along the way will never reach a bedrock.
I remember when this story broke and they tried to make it seem like the paleontologist crew were stealing off someone's land.
Yeah, I went in person and saw about the holes and its bottom jaw is much bigger in person
good one : )
I wish I lived in Chicago so I could visit,but I live in London so I can't see Sue :(
Yea T.Rexes Are Another One Of My Favorite Dinos Alongside Velociraptors, Spinosaurus, Pteranodons, Dilophosaurus & Pyroraptor
OK I'm at the part with the auction and is mindblowing that the highest bidders were museums, atough with Smithsonian's rep I'm glad Chicago got it
Lawfare is a dangerous weapon.
I believe the only US law that might have sorted this out is to have gone for a mining claim filling in the unique type of mineral (fossilized bone) being mined. I'm not happy with those laws as written, but I can't think of another existing legal framework that would apply. They would have to file a claim, post a bond for recovery of the land etc. , but the Field Museum would have a legal paper trail and have not left a legal jump ball in the air.