Awesome video guys. I started watching rig videos of vertex about a year ago and that led me into a rabbit hole of learning as much as as I could about building a pedalboard. One year later I have my first ever pedalboard made in 11 years of playing bass. I used to be guy who always said “I’m a bassist, I don’t need pedals”. Nothing wrong in that but personally for me, my creativity to play bass has gone up to another level with all the pedals I have now. I followed everything you guys suggested starting from buffers all the way to cable management, and I must say that I’m really proud to have built my own board. Thank you guys. Thanks for proving this information that many choose not to. You guys are making a difference and that’s what brings me back every time.
Also, I’m currently running a 11 pedal board. Im splitting my signal in the beginning with the Walrus Audio Stereo Canvas. I’m also running a cab sim before my wet effects (it’s the Mooer Radar). Since the Radar doesn’t have an effects loop send and return, the wet effects are followed directly from the 1/4” output of the Radar and back into Walrus Audio canvas. My question is, in your opinion what’s the ideal placement for a cab sim for a bass rig?
I’ll chime in mainly because I know comments / interactions help boost the TH-cam algorithms (or so I’m told) & I always want to support you guys! A couple things: 1) most active basses don’t have active pickups, they’re passive pickups with an active preamp in line. Everything discussed about active basses was spot on, but a couple of times the term “active pickups” was used & that’s rarely the case. 2) While pedal placement is definitely up to the ear of the beholder, the Sansamp BDDI was designed from its inception to be an amp substitute where it wasn’t feasible to have a giant / powerful rig…it was meant to get the sound of a mic’d up Ampeg SVT straight to a PA (including speaker emulation), and therefore it should really best be used last in the chain or at least only before delays / reverbs. If you put an overdrive or fuzz after a Sansamp BDDI it would be more like putting the overdrive or fuzz in an effects loop after the preamp of a head / combo…or even after a mic’d cabinet which some people might like, but definitely wouldn’t be the recommended starting point. Similar to putting a drive pedal after a Strymon Iridium. It’s a bit different than what a simple onboard bass preamp does. Also, it does in fact have an unaffected parallel 1/4” out in addition to the effected 1/4” out and the XLR just FYI (there was a question about that near the end of the discussion). 3) I’m 99.9999999% sure Moog is pronounced as if it rhymes with the word “rogue” (this is straight from the company and the man himself), but hey…tomato / toe-MAH-toe, right? ;-) I hope I don’t come off sounding like a “Karen” here, just chiming in as requested and wanted to support the podcast / channel. You guys are awesome…thanks for giving us bass players some love!! 🤞 …here’s to hoping I don’t get roasted in the comments HAHA 😇
Sean, Thanks for chiming in! 1) Active Pickups and Active Instruments (bass or guitar) have been collapsed to mean the same thing. These terms are interchangeable and have been this way for some time, pre-dating the three of us in all likelihood. The key difference, for an EMG as an example, is that the active circuitry is built into the pickup housing and not feeding a separate preamp PCB before the output jack of the instrument. In both cases, these are active instruments and the way they should be treated, as as consequence, is exactly the same. 2) Is that refuted in the video? I think we name some different options as speak on DI generally, sometimes it can be a passive DI up front or an active one, but I think it would be assumed that any amp in a box would have the same treatment as a guitar rig would in terms of signal path. I didn't think this was unclear in our conversation, but if there was a particular part you though wasn't clarified, I'd be happy to get your feedback on it so we can make it more clear in future conversations. 3) Thanks for this correction! Thanks again for watching and the feedback.
@@VertexEffectsInc …you guys did great, Mason! I mainly clarified the passive pickup / active preamp thing because I had to explain to somebody who wanted to upgrade the pickups on his active fender jazz bass just last week that he didn’t need active pickups…he needed to buy passive ones, the active part of the bass was the preamp in line between the pickups and the output jack, this is a great example of where the clarification makes a difference. He had no idea and it’s a point of confusion for more bass players than you might think. I know you wouldn’t want to add to that confusion. You guys were most definitely spot on in explaining how active instruments, regardless of configuration, behave going into a pedalboard / amp / etc. and don’t require a buffer. An active signal is an active signal for sure! That was my only addition to that part of the convo…it matters when somebody thinks they need active pickups when they don’t. 😇 And for the Sansamp BDDI thing, there was just a point where one of you guys suggested putting a drive or fuzz AFTER the Sansamp and while that could work, it would be missing the point of what a Sansamp was historically designed to be…it’s more than just a drive / preamp pedal. I was merely pointing out that for beginners who aren’t as familiar with the Sansamp, it helps to think of it as “the amp” (like the purpose a Strymon Iridium serves in an amp-less guitar rig)…hence the name “Sans” which means “without”, so “without amp”. If used this way, then putting drive pedals before it will allow them to behave like they would if they were placed in front of an actual amp as intended. Merely a suggestion based on why the Sansamp was designed in the first place, which is also how it’s best utilized in most cases. I realize most guitar directed “amp in a box” pedals are meant to just go in front of an actual amp & order doesn’t matter as much since they don’t typically include speaker emulation to sound like a mic’d cabinet at the output like an Iridum or a BDDI does. But again, wherever sounds best to the user’s ear shall ultimately prevail! There’s nothing keeping somebody from putting anything wherever they want, only suggested starting places as you guys have covered in depth in earlier episodes. 😉 Again, not being nit-picky or a “know it all” in any way, you guys are the pros! I’m just contributing to the conversation as a hobbyist. You guys rock! Cheers to all! 🤗
ngl i didn't read the entirety of your reply, but i read the first comment haha. On the sans amp issue, the quarter inch out is dry and would make sense to go out to more pedals. XLR out has the cab sim so it goes to FOH. So its not like putting an amp before pedals. I get your concern there though!
@@Aio-Project yes, good point if you use the unaffected / parallel 1/4” out on the right side of the pedal that would totally make sense! But the other main 1/4” out on the left matches the XLR with the speaker emulation. It’s all in how you use it & all of the features weren’t really addressed…it can be confusing for newbies that might have been listening. 😇
Thank you so much for making this video. Us bass players are often neglected when it comes to effect pedal shows. It is so refreshing to get the spotlight and see how we can improve our tone.
No doubt! I'm glad there's finally a good conversation about bass rigs. I'll give you a pass on being a scum fan because you're a bass player. Leeds Leeds Leeds!!
Great video! As a bass player with 50 years under my belt as a player, I’ve never been too much into effects. I toured with The Miracles and bands like that and was mainly a jazz and studio player doing a lot of tv work back in the day. Anyway times change so here’s how I set my ampless rig up to get my very specific tones in this order: Empress Buffer, C4 Synth (Amazing!), Empress Bass Compressor, Swollen Pickle fuzz, Bass Soul Food overdrive, NSG noise gate, Boss Bass EQ, Eddy Chorus, Oceans 11 reverb all into an Ampeg SCR DI. It gives me a lot of nice R&B sound options I use all the time. I don’t combine effects much so I don’t think much about loops. The C4 obviates the need for a phaser, flanger, octave and envelope filter for me. I had an OC-2 when it first came out. Epic octave pedal. But there are multiple patches on the C4 that literally duplicate the sounds that pedal can get. At least close enough for me. You guys definitely got me thinking on the parallel front though. I could run a clean signal out of my Thru into an amp for a clean tone - at least I think so! The Noble is great and very clean but for me the value isn’t there. I love that Ampeg sound and I’m an old school guy who loves an old school sound.
+1 on the C4. I was able to replace my Micro Pog and my MXR Envelope filter just by adding the C4. The C4 is a chameleon and can probably moonlight as the next pedal most people are considering on purchasing next. My signal chain: Korg Pitchblack X, MXR Comp, SA C4, SA Collider, Darkglass Infinity (most of my presets mimick Ampeg warmth, but I like the ability to drop a wildly diff preset in whenever I want), SA EQ2, AEROS Looper. I will be adding a SDRUM to my board for my solo bass show and/or practice tool. I also plan on implimenting MIDI (MC6 Pro) at some point. I keep wanting to ignore midi but with 90% of my pedals having MIDI it's harder and harder to ignore. Cheers Legend.
A really good tube DI that’s come out recently is the Sushi Box Finally! Especially pairing it with digital multi fx like the HX stomp it helps brings that analog feel back to the tone. It comes with a 12ax7 tube but I replaced it with a 12au7 to clean it up and drive it harder and I’m loving the tone! Really awesome option if you want a Noble type without spending a grand!
Something that can help when using parallel mixers is to add a high pass filter on the modulation/time based effects right before they come back to the mixer. This can be a helpful way of maintaining that low end punch when you are having a “party at the top” since all the modulation and time effects would not be effecting the lower end of the spectrum at all
The Tyler by KMA Audio Mashines was a complete gamechanger for me. Its an active splitter where you can choose the splitt frquency. The signal with the deep frequencys goes into a compressor to get consistency in the lows. The high frequency goes to my effects chain and here guitar effects works well. We play often small gigs with small a pa where the inputs are limited and often for bass there is only one input possible.
Loved the episode! One thing that I’ve discovered in relation to overdrives on bass is that makes a huge difference to put the overdrive BEFORE the Sansamp. Just like with a guitar rig, you wouldn’t put your amp before your pedal board. I think Grant mentioned running the signal thru a Sansamp then to the overdrive. That seems like the natual thing to do but I’ve found the opposite is better in my experience! Experiment with the order and let me know if you find the same thing!
True, Sansamp should be the last in the chain as it colours and affects the pedals when it's before them. Especially when you go ampless - you have everything before your preamp as you got the D.I. out :) Cheers
This is the video I’ve been waiting for! I run my Epiphone Jack Cassidy into the JHS Clover or Boss Bass Equalizer(depends how I feel on the day. lol) to the Earthquaker Devices Swiss Things. Ibanez Bass TS-9 in Loop 1, Korg Nuvibe to Earthquaker Devices Avalanche Run in Loop 2, Boss TU-3S to the Tuner Out, a Moog EP-3 that either goes into the Swiss Things’ Volume EXP port or Avalanche Run EXP port(depends on what the songs/gigs need), Swiss Things to the JHS Mute Switch, and ending on the GFI System Cabzeus Mono.
I just built an ES-5 pedalboard with a custom buffered interface. My signal comes in, goes to a looper, goes back to the interface and gets split to the ES-5 and a compressor/preamp with cab sim and XLR out. Both signals go through a Source Audio EQ2 for some extra EQ and it’s also a midi controlled volume pedal. Loops and volume pedal changes go to both signals at the same time.
Thank you chairmen! Relatively newer bass player here...I built a decent quality board thanks to your recommendations and experiences. Thank you so much! I've been waiting for more bass pedal information from you guys and I have learned a ton watching your channel. This one was exactly what I was looking for. Brian, Grant and Mason, your combined insights are awesome. Love the content! Keep it up! I would always appreciate more bass content in the future please! 👍👍
Thanks guys! The EQD Palisades has a bandwidth control, so you can dial in any bass response for any type of guitar… its the most flexible and versatile 808 style pedal there is … also was just quietly discontinued so new retail stock is nearly depleted
1:08:30 Funny that Brain mentions it, I just watched a segment of Vance Powell's studio tour, and he has a small section of his wall dedicated to guitar pedals. He has a whole bunch of distortion and delay pedals just velcroed to a wall and sends them into his console with a Radial reamper. If you search pedal wall on TH-cam you'll find the clip. It's less than 60 seconds. I'm building a similar system for my home studio, but I'm putting them in a 4U rack-mounter drawer instead of gluing them to the wall because I respect the unstoppable force that is gravity
A trick I have found when running bass effects in series is if you feel like a certain drive or other effect is making you lose some low end, after your drive section add in an EQ pedal like the boss GE-7, or maybe a source audio EQ, and use that to add back in any low end you feel like disappeared. This works really well for me.
Easy enough to try for sure! I would think that as long as you don't get too aggressive & muddy things up too much, should work. it sounds like a simple but effective idea. I'm sure parallel line would give you more control and a cleaner tone overall but definitely worth a shot if you have an eq after the effect. Why not? Thank you Peter. I'll definitely try your trick!
@@rjjabjiniak8848 Let me know what you think, definitely need to be careful and not go to far in the other direction towards muddy. The parallel mix is probably easier, and allows FOH to decide, but trusting your FOH is not always an option. Hehe
Grant describing the variable impedance control is about the most interesting thing ever. I'm hoping to get these guys to clue me on how to do it on my Vertex Buffer or else I'm ready to send it in for the mod.
Hi Chairmen, thanks for another great video. @Vertex Effects, I would love to get that diagram from you on the variable impedance buffer. I play acoustic guitar (with passive Dazzo pickups) and would enjoy listening to the effect of different input impedance levels in my rig.
If you look at our DIY buffer video, you're just going to insert a toggle switch for R1 and you can change resistance from there based on the value you choose.
Aguilar Db751? Would be cool to have a reference chart for this for various popular bass amps. I've got a active pick-ups, and a Euna 29, then a good wood audio output buffer... but I've got 30 pedals and doing looper midi/ ableton stuff. Still too much buffer?
Ps - Mason you've mentioned a good bass preamp means you don't need an output buffer.. what if there's 10 time based pedals and looper after the preamp? (Still no output buffer) .. I loop bass , then push bass up octaves and do ambient pads.
Well...the Euna is more of an EQ than a Buffer to me, but you may like the color of it nonetheless. I think having an input buffer and output buffer is still the move as you're going to have pedals on in between the buffers to offset them. I think the next big thing is good high quality soldered cables for all your interconnections.
@@jessetoews2446 For the preamp situation, you'd want an output buffer if your last pedal doesn't already have a low output impedance, like 100 ohms or so.
Hey vertex effects, I just put together my vertex board bass rig with an HX stomp and ES-5. Also an effectrode leveling amplifier, hands down beat the Cali for me. My question is, I soldered the MIDI from the HXstomp to the ES5 , and the signal is working , but how to I patch the stomp in the signal chain.? Effects loop on ES5? Right now I have the Peterson Stribe tuner going to the effectrode then to the ES-5z and I have an MXR charity’s in an effect chain outputting to the Sansamk for direct out.
Sorry for typos but phone acting up. Saying the signal chain goes Peterson, to effectrode leveling amp, to ES-5. Then MXR chorus in effect loop and the output goes to a sansamp(soon to be noble). The HX stomp is only hooked up on midi. Not sure how to hook this up with patch cables. Thanks
@@VertexEffectsInc I can put in the output after the ES-5? Don’t run it into the effects loop? I was wondering if I can put in the effects loop since I have 5 channels and only using 1 analog pedal. Really bought the ES-5 to utilize the stomp.
If you're using the DI only, I'd try to match 10M, but if you're using the amp I'd go 1M. You can also experiment if you end up getting a buffer that's got a variable input impedance.
I’ve not figured out if I need buffers. My high end does feel a little lacking and I tend to feel my lower notes are overpowering. My setup. Spector Dimension 5: fluence pickups. Goes wirelessly into Shure GLXD16+ Dunlop Chencellor Wah Darkglass Hyperluminal Grizzly Bass (creation audio) Eventide H90 Darkglass Microtube Infiniti. The Infiniti gives me a DI out but wondering if I should have a buffer after it or after the Shure. I mostly use the Infiniti as an EQ/Cab sim. Occasionally for some distortion. The wah is for fun. The grizzly is my main fuzz/distortion. The eventide is when I just wanna be dumb with crazy effects.
Regarding the Xotic Trilogic, EWS has made a much smaller version of it that's excellent and not hard to find on Reverb. There's even an EWS Trilogic 3 with sweepable mids.
If you like the Ampeg SVT tone, Check out the DSM Humboldt Electronics Simplifier Bass Station Zero Watt Analog Bass Preamp. I love it. It's a preamp with cab sim, DI with 2 parallel XLRs, parallelizer all in one. I changed my board to have it as the center. Comp and drive before and I run chorus, reverb and delay in the parallel send/return and nothing in the other send/return.
Thoughts on unbuffer pedals? I have one before my fuzz in the first loop of my switcher. The fuzz is the jam pedals red muck w/ dry/wet mix. It sounds really harsh with my active bass plugged directly in. The unbuffer isn't going to sound the same as a passive bass into a fuzz, but it works for me
It's always a compromise...wont' do it exactly the same as the direct instrument will. There are also some fuzzes that are desinged to be used with wireless or buffers that seem to sound OK.
@@VertexEffectsInc would love more content on finding fuzzes and wahs that work well with active instruments/buffers/wireless. Thanks for the great vids as always!
I play both and have my Boss MS-3 set up for both instruments. Just a note- front your band as the bass guitarist, control the groove and call the shots.
I ran into issues with my hx stomp last in chain Noises and not good sounding at all Now run hx into mxr micro amp into a optivalve comp into a nemisis delay out to amp Thinking the buffer in nemisis is contributing to hifi sound
Also really dig the boost pedal into my optical comp I can add or take away saturation without getting louder necessarily And I also run amp/cab in parallel into a bass amp I’m running fairly neutral in my bassmann500 so the amp/cab aren’t overbearing But I hear ppl talk like this is a no no But I’m thinking that’s mostly guitarists
Not sure how those pedals after it would solve any issues unless the buffering was so poor you were getting a lot of loss, but I don't see that a too bad of an issue. Wonder if you have some sub-optimal settings on your HX?
Yea idk honestly I changed nothing but order and I like it much better this way I run hpf/lpf last in chain I run amp sim in series but parallel the cab sim and use mic/placement to eq to taste Then my effects in front of that My signal chain Wah>subnup >bassmuff>qtron>hxstomp>mxrmicroamp>optivalve>nemisis
Some brands that do drive/gain effectspedals for bass very well (that I know and use) in my subjective view 😁: (Extremely) modern to old school bass drive sounds: Darkglass, Tech21 NYC, Earthquaker Devices, EBS, Source Audio. More oldschool drive bass sounds to more modern: JAM Pedals (LucyDreamer Bass / Rattler Bass / Red Muck Bass (all with blend knobs), Xotic Bass RC Booster, Xotic Bass BB Preamp, KASLEDER fx, SolidGold FX, Diamond FX, JHS, Way Huge (Pork&Pickle), all Tech21 NYC SansAmp stuff, Origin Effects preamp/DI’s, EBS, Nobels ODR, Fairfield Circuitry Barbershop. 🖖
Most active basses have passive pickups (EMGs are active) with an onboard preamp. A compressor, octave, chorus and Sansamp DI Bass driver are all I use. I have a solid state amp so the Sansamp is used to add a bit of warmth to my sound (not distortion).
Common problem with using parallel effects routing on bass is in fact FOH. Much too often they just won’t let you use two DI’s. Too much hustle for them... Especially on festivals where everything has to go ‘fast’. That’s a real bummer, and very stupid too. They also tend to insist on us using their crappy DI’s like Behringer, instead of the quality stuff many of us semi-pro bassplayers tend to bring like Radial, Tech21 or even Basswitch or Neve! Having a nice live bass sound from FOH these days has become a real drag, wich includes how the bass is mixed in with the drums and all the useless subs they want from the kick drum. Like every band is a 2002 ‘new metal’ band... It ain’t easy. Even when you bring/supply just the right stuff, keep things down onstage volume wise, and arrive early to meet the sound persons. They’re like AI’s without self learning abilities... 😉 🖖
@@regortex3364 Anytime I have used reverb on bass, its high passed super super high so that the low fundamntal frequencies aren't getting muddy. But some verb on the high end can definitely help a bass blend into the mix a bit better sometimes.
@@MitchellSpille - I was kidding btw. Usually it's not required on a bass track in a typical situation. I've had reverb in my bass rig for years, it's great for solos, interludes, intros, improvisation etc. Atm I use a JHS 3 Series with the pre delay engaged, it's a great pedal. Cheers
Mason mentioned the JHS muffaletta - the tone control of that pedal is taken specifically from the old green sovtek muffs which is a favourite for bass players because of the way it’s voiced. Another great option is the wren and cuff tall front Russian which is a faithful recreation of the original if you’re after the cost or maintenance of a vintage pedal.
There’s a lot of good info in this podcast but it is clear none of you have actually put in any time testing pedals on bass. next time you should get some actual bass players or bass gear builders involved.
Awesome video guys. I started watching rig videos of vertex about a year ago and that led me into a rabbit hole of learning as much as as I could about building a pedalboard. One year later I have my first ever pedalboard made in 11 years of playing bass. I used to be guy who always said “I’m a bassist, I don’t need pedals”. Nothing wrong in that but personally for me, my creativity to play bass has gone up to another level with all the pedals I have now. I followed everything you guys suggested starting from buffers all the way to cable management, and I must say that I’m really proud to have built my own board. Thank you guys. Thanks for proving this information that many choose not to. You guys are making a difference and that’s what brings me back every time.
Also, I’m currently running a 11 pedal board. Im splitting my signal in the beginning with the Walrus Audio Stereo Canvas. I’m also running a cab sim before my wet effects (it’s the Mooer Radar). Since the Radar doesn’t have an effects loop send and return, the wet effects are followed directly from the 1/4” output of the Radar and back into Walrus Audio canvas. My question is, in your opinion what’s the ideal placement for a cab sim for a bass rig?
Thanks for watching! Cab Sim and Amp sims usually before wet processing like delay and reverb but after dry effects live overdrives and compression.
I’ll chime in mainly because I know comments / interactions help boost the TH-cam algorithms (or so I’m told) & I always want to support you guys! A couple things:
1) most active basses don’t have active pickups, they’re passive pickups with an active preamp in line. Everything discussed about active basses was spot on, but a couple of times the term “active pickups” was used & that’s rarely the case.
2) While pedal placement is definitely up to the ear of the beholder, the Sansamp BDDI was designed from its inception to be an amp substitute where it wasn’t feasible to have a giant / powerful rig…it was meant to get the sound of a mic’d up Ampeg SVT straight to a PA (including speaker emulation), and therefore it should really best be used last in the chain or at least only before delays / reverbs. If you put an overdrive or fuzz after a Sansamp BDDI it would be more like putting the overdrive or fuzz in an effects loop after the preamp of a head / combo…or even after a mic’d cabinet which some people might like, but definitely wouldn’t be the recommended starting point. Similar to putting a drive pedal after a Strymon Iridium. It’s a bit different than what a simple onboard bass preamp does. Also, it does in fact have an unaffected parallel 1/4” out in addition to the effected 1/4” out and the XLR just FYI (there was a question about that near the end of the discussion).
3) I’m 99.9999999% sure Moog is pronounced as if it rhymes with the word “rogue” (this is straight from the company and the man himself), but hey…tomato / toe-MAH-toe, right? ;-)
I hope I don’t come off sounding like a “Karen” here, just chiming in as requested and wanted to support the podcast / channel. You guys are awesome…thanks for giving us bass players some love!!
🤞 …here’s to hoping I don’t get roasted in the comments HAHA 😇
Sean,
Thanks for chiming in!
1) Active Pickups and Active Instruments (bass or guitar) have been collapsed to mean the same thing. These terms are interchangeable and have been this way for some time, pre-dating the three of us in all likelihood. The key difference, for an EMG as an example, is that the active circuitry is built into the pickup housing and not feeding a separate preamp PCB before the output jack of the instrument. In both cases, these are active instruments and the way they should be treated, as as consequence, is exactly the same.
2) Is that refuted in the video? I think we name some different options as speak on DI generally, sometimes it can be a passive DI up front or an active one, but I think it would be assumed that any amp in a box would have the same treatment as a guitar rig would in terms of signal path. I didn't think this was unclear in our conversation, but if there was a particular part you though wasn't clarified, I'd be happy to get your feedback on it so we can make it more clear in future conversations.
3) Thanks for this correction!
Thanks again for watching and the feedback.
@@VertexEffectsInc …you guys did great, Mason! I mainly clarified the passive pickup / active preamp thing because I had to explain to somebody who wanted to upgrade the pickups on his active fender jazz bass just last week that he didn’t need active pickups…he needed to buy passive ones, the active part of the bass was the preamp in line between the pickups and the output jack, this is a great example of where the clarification makes a difference. He had no idea and it’s a point of confusion for more bass players than you might think. I know you wouldn’t want to add to that confusion. You guys were most definitely spot on in explaining how active instruments, regardless of configuration, behave going into a pedalboard / amp / etc. and don’t require a buffer. An active signal is an active signal for sure! That was my only addition to that part of the convo…it matters when somebody thinks they need active pickups when they don’t. 😇
And for the Sansamp BDDI thing, there was just a point where one of you guys suggested putting a drive or fuzz AFTER the Sansamp and while that could work, it would be missing the point of what a Sansamp was historically designed to be…it’s more than just a drive / preamp pedal. I was merely pointing out that for beginners who aren’t as familiar with the Sansamp, it helps to think of it as “the amp” (like the purpose a Strymon Iridium serves in an amp-less guitar rig)…hence the name “Sans” which means “without”, so “without amp”. If used this way, then putting drive pedals before it will allow them to behave like they would if they were placed in front of an actual amp as intended. Merely a suggestion based on why the Sansamp was designed in the first place, which is also how it’s best utilized in most cases. I realize most guitar directed “amp in a box” pedals are meant to just go in front of an actual amp & order doesn’t matter as much since they don’t typically include speaker emulation to sound like a mic’d cabinet at the output like an Iridum or a BDDI does. But again, wherever sounds best to the user’s ear shall ultimately prevail! There’s nothing keeping somebody from putting anything wherever they want, only suggested starting places as you guys have covered in depth in earlier episodes. 😉
Again, not being nit-picky or a “know it all” in any way, you guys are the pros! I’m just contributing to the conversation as a hobbyist. You guys rock! Cheers to all! 🤗
ngl i didn't read the entirety of your reply, but i read the first comment haha. On the sans amp issue, the quarter inch out is dry and would make sense to go out to more pedals. XLR out has the cab sim so it goes to FOH. So its not like putting an amp before pedals. I get your concern there though!
@@Aio-Project yes, good point if you use the unaffected / parallel 1/4” out on the right side of the pedal that would totally make sense! But the other main 1/4” out on the left matches the XLR with the speaker emulation. It’s all in how you use it & all of the features weren’t really addressed…it can be confusing for newbies that might have been listening. 😇
Thank you so much for making this video. Us bass players are often neglected when it comes to effect pedal shows. It is so refreshing to get the spotlight and see how we can improve our tone.
Glad it was helpful!
No doubt! I'm glad there's finally a good conversation about bass rigs. I'll give you a pass on being a scum fan because you're a bass player. Leeds Leeds Leeds!!
Great video! As a bass player with 50 years under my belt as a player, I’ve never been too much into effects. I toured with The Miracles and bands like that and was mainly a jazz and studio player doing a lot of tv work back in the day. Anyway times change so here’s how I set my ampless rig up to get my very specific tones in this order: Empress Buffer, C4 Synth (Amazing!), Empress Bass Compressor, Swollen Pickle fuzz, Bass Soul Food overdrive, NSG noise gate, Boss Bass EQ, Eddy Chorus, Oceans 11 reverb all into an Ampeg SCR DI. It gives me a lot of nice R&B sound options I use all the time. I don’t combine effects much so I don’t think much about loops. The C4 obviates the need for a phaser, flanger, octave and envelope filter for me. I had an OC-2 when it first came out. Epic octave pedal. But there are multiple patches on the C4 that literally duplicate the sounds that pedal can get. At least close enough for me. You guys definitely got me thinking on the parallel front though. I could run a clean signal out of my Thru into an amp for a clean tone - at least I think so! The Noble is great and very clean but for me the value isn’t there. I love that Ampeg sound and I’m an old school guy who loves an old school sound.
+1 on the C4. I was able to replace my Micro Pog and my MXR Envelope filter just by adding the C4. The C4 is a chameleon and can probably moonlight as the next pedal most people are considering on purchasing next. My signal chain: Korg Pitchblack X, MXR Comp, SA C4, SA Collider, Darkglass Infinity (most of my presets mimick Ampeg warmth, but I like the ability to drop a wildly diff preset in whenever I want), SA EQ2, AEROS Looper. I will be adding a SDRUM to my board for my solo bass show and/or practice tool. I also plan on implimenting MIDI (MC6 Pro) at some point. I keep wanting to ignore midi but with 90% of my pedals having MIDI it's harder and harder to ignore. Cheers Legend.
A really good tube DI that’s come out recently is the Sushi Box Finally! Especially pairing it with digital multi fx like the HX stomp it helps brings that analog feel back to the tone. It comes with a 12ax7 tube but I replaced it with a 12au7 to clean it up and drive it harder and I’m loving the tone! Really awesome option if you want a Noble type without spending a grand!
Something that can help when using parallel mixers is to add a high pass filter on the modulation/time based effects right before they come back to the mixer. This can be a helpful way of maintaining that low end punch when you are having a “party at the top” since all the modulation and time effects would not be effecting the lower end of the spectrum at all
Thanks for sharing this!
The Tyler by KMA Audio Mashines was a complete gamechanger for me. Its an active splitter where you can choose the splitt frquency. The signal with the deep frequencys goes into a compressor to get consistency in the lows. The high frequency goes to my effects chain and here guitar effects works well. We play often small gigs with small a pa where the inputs are limited and often for bass there is only one input possible.
Loved the episode!
One thing that I’ve discovered in relation to overdrives on bass is that makes a huge difference to put the overdrive BEFORE the Sansamp. Just like with a guitar rig, you wouldn’t put your amp before your pedal board.
I think Grant mentioned running the signal thru a Sansamp then to the overdrive. That seems like the natual thing to do but I’ve found the opposite is better in my experience!
Experiment with the order and let me know if you find the same thing!
Thanks for sharing!
True, Sansamp should be the last in the chain as it colours and affects the pedals when it's before them. Especially when you go ampless - you have everything before your preamp as you got the D.I. out :) Cheers
This is the video I’ve been waiting for! I run my Epiphone Jack Cassidy into the JHS Clover or Boss Bass Equalizer(depends how I feel on the day. lol) to the Earthquaker Devices Swiss Things. Ibanez Bass TS-9 in Loop 1, Korg Nuvibe to Earthquaker Devices Avalanche Run in Loop 2, Boss TU-3S to the Tuner Out, a Moog EP-3 that either goes into the Swiss Things’ Volume EXP port or Avalanche Run EXP port(depends on what the songs/gigs need), Swiss Things to the JHS Mute Switch, and ending on the GFI System Cabzeus Mono.
Nice!
I've used Radial bassbones for years. Effects loop, dry/wet blend, DI out, and a/b box. Also have a Radial mix blender.
Thanks for sharing!
Those great bass gain/clipping pedals that have a wet/dry mix in the pedal. Compressors too.
Yes, indeed!
I just built an ES-5 pedalboard with a custom buffered interface. My signal comes in, goes to a looper, goes back to the interface and gets split to the ES-5 and a compressor/preamp with cab sim and XLR out. Both signals go through a Source Audio EQ2 for some extra EQ and it’s also a midi controlled volume pedal. Loops and volume pedal changes go to both signals at the same time.
Nice!
Hope y’all enjoyed today podcast! When I’m not severely sick, next time I’ll chime in! 🤘🏼🤧
Get well Brian! We miss you!
Thank you chairmen! Relatively newer bass player here...I built a decent quality board thanks to your recommendations and experiences. Thank you so much!
I've been waiting for more bass pedal information from you guys and I have learned a ton watching your channel. This one was exactly what I was looking for. Brian, Grant and Mason, your combined insights are awesome.
Love the content! Keep it up!
I would always appreciate more bass content in the future please! 👍👍
Great to hear!
Thanks guys! The EQD Palisades has a bandwidth control, so you can dial in any bass response for any type of guitar… its the most flexible and versatile 808 style pedal there is … also was just quietly discontinued so new retail stock is nearly depleted
1:08:30 Funny that Brain mentions it, I just watched a segment of Vance Powell's studio tour, and he has a small section of his wall dedicated to guitar pedals. He has a whole bunch of distortion and delay pedals just velcroed to a wall and sends them into his console with a Radial reamper. If you search pedal wall on TH-cam you'll find the clip. It's less than 60 seconds. I'm building a similar system for my home studio, but I'm putting them in a 4U rack-mounter drawer instead of gluing them to the wall because I respect the unstoppable force that is gravity
Nice! Thanks for watching and sharing this!
A trick I have found when running bass effects in series is if you feel like a certain drive or other effect is making you lose some low end, after your drive section add in an EQ pedal like the boss GE-7, or maybe a source audio EQ, and use that to add back in any low end you feel like disappeared. This works really well for me.
Easy enough to try for sure! I would think that as long as you don't get too aggressive & muddy things up too much, should work. it sounds like a simple but effective idea. I'm sure parallel line would give you more control and a cleaner tone overall but definitely worth a shot if you have an eq after the effect. Why not?
Thank you Peter.
I'll definitely try your trick!
@@rjjabjiniak8848 Let me know what you think, definitely need to be careful and not go to far in the other direction towards muddy. The parallel mix is probably easier, and allows FOH to decide, but trusting your FOH is not always an option. Hehe
Good tip!
Grant describing the variable impedance control is about the most interesting thing ever. I'm hoping to get these guys to clue me on how to do it on my Vertex Buffer or else I'm ready to send it in for the mod.
Hi Chairmen, thanks for another great video. @Vertex Effects, I would love to get that diagram from you on the variable impedance buffer. I play acoustic guitar (with passive Dazzo pickups) and would enjoy listening to the effect of different input impedance levels in my rig.
If you look at our DIY buffer video, you're just going to insert a toggle switch for R1 and you can change resistance from there based on the value you choose.
@@VertexEffectsInc I am not sure I follow. Could you provide “an easy diagram” and “all the information” as mentioned in the video (min 17ish)?
Aguilar Db751? Would be cool to have a reference chart for this for various popular bass amps.
I've got a active pick-ups, and a Euna 29, then a good wood audio output buffer... but I've got 30 pedals and doing looper midi/ ableton stuff. Still too much buffer?
Ps - Mason you've mentioned a good bass preamp means you don't need an output buffer.. what if there's 10 time based pedals and looper after the preamp? (Still no output buffer) .. I loop bass , then push bass up octaves and do ambient pads.
Well...the Euna is more of an EQ than a Buffer to me, but you may like the color of it nonetheless. I think having an input buffer and output buffer is still the move as you're going to have pedals on in between the buffers to offset them. I think the next big thing is good high quality soldered cables for all your interconnections.
@@jessetoews2446 For the preamp situation, you'd want an output buffer if your last pedal doesn't already have a low output impedance, like 100 ohms or so.
Hey vertex effects, I just put together my vertex board bass rig with an HX stomp and ES-5. Also an effectrode leveling amplifier, hands down beat the Cali for me. My question is, I soldered the MIDI from the HXstomp to the ES5 , and the signal is working , but how to I patch the stomp in the signal chain.? Effects loop on ES5? Right now I have the Peterson Stribe tuner going to the effectrode then to the ES-5z and I have an MXR charity’s in an effect chain outputting to the Sansamk for direct out.
Sorry for typos but phone acting up. Saying the signal chain goes Peterson, to effectrode leveling amp, to ES-5. Then MXR chorus in effect loop and the output goes to a sansamp(soon to be noble). The HX stomp is only hooked up on midi. Not sure how to hook this up with patch cables. Thanks
If it's controlled by MIDI you cant put it after the ES-5 output and use the MIDI commands to tell the HX what to do.
@@VertexEffectsInc I can put in the output after the ES-5? Don’t run it into the effects loop? I was wondering if I can put in the effects loop since I have 5 channels and only using 1 analog pedal. Really bought the ES-5 to utilize the stomp.
@@VertexEffectsInc was confused cause this said can’t
Bass rig with a preamp/DI of 10 meg input impedance & bass amp of 1meg - which input should I “match” with an input buffer?
If you're using the DI only, I'd try to match 10M, but if you're using the amp I'd go 1M. You can also experiment if you end up getting a buffer that's got a variable input impedance.
I’ve not figured out if I need buffers. My high end does feel a little lacking and I tend to feel my lower notes are overpowering.
My setup.
Spector Dimension 5: fluence pickups.
Goes wirelessly into
Shure GLXD16+
Dunlop Chencellor Wah
Darkglass Hyperluminal
Grizzly Bass (creation audio)
Eventide H90
Darkglass Microtube Infiniti.
The Infiniti gives me a DI out but wondering if I should have a buffer after it or after the Shure.
I mostly use the Infiniti as an EQ/Cab sim. Occasionally for some distortion.
The wah is for fun. The grizzly is my main fuzz/distortion. The eventide is when I just wanna be dumb with crazy effects.
What an insightful video. Loved it!
Glad it was helpful!
Regarding the Xotic Trilogic, EWS has made a much smaller version of it that's excellent and not hard to find on Reverb. There's even an EWS Trilogic 3 with sweepable mids.
Great! Thanks for sharing!
If you like the Ampeg SVT tone, Check out the DSM Humboldt Electronics Simplifier Bass Station Zero Watt Analog Bass Preamp. I love it. It's a preamp with cab sim, DI with 2 parallel XLRs, parallelizer all in one. I changed my board to have it as the center. Comp and drive before and I run chorus, reverb and delay in the parallel send/return and nothing in the other send/return.
I'd love to see/hear your rig - I've been considering the Simplifier. It looks rad!!!
Thoughts on unbuffer pedals? I have one before my fuzz in the first loop of my switcher. The fuzz is the jam pedals red muck w/ dry/wet mix. It sounds really harsh with my active bass plugged directly in. The unbuffer isn't going to sound the same as a passive bass into a fuzz, but it works for me
It's always a compromise...wont' do it exactly the same as the direct instrument will. There are also some fuzzes that are desinged to be used with wireless or buffers that seem to sound OK.
@@VertexEffectsInc would love more content on finding fuzzes and wahs that work well with active instruments/buffers/wireless. Thanks for the great vids as always!
Di boxes for bassist?
Live or studio?
Cab/sim only to di or amp too
You can do all of the above for both.
I play both and have my Boss MS-3 set up for both instruments. Just a note- front your band as the bass guitarist, control the groove and call the shots.
Good tip!
Hamstead Subspace - easily one of the best and most versatile drives for bass!
Nice!
I ran into issues with my hx stomp last in chain
Noises and not good sounding at all
Now run hx into mxr micro amp into a optivalve comp into a nemisis delay out to amp
Thinking the buffer in nemisis is contributing to hifi sound
Also really dig the boost pedal into my optical comp
I can add or take away saturation without getting louder necessarily
And I also run amp/cab in parallel into a bass amp
I’m running fairly neutral in my bassmann500 so the amp/cab aren’t overbearing
But I hear ppl talk like this is a no no
But I’m thinking that’s mostly guitarists
I personally love my tone with it all on
Not sure how those pedals after it would solve any issues unless the buffering was so poor you were getting a lot of loss, but I don't see that a too bad of an issue. Wonder if you have some sub-optimal settings on your HX?
Yea idk honestly I changed nothing but order and I like it much better this way
I run hpf/lpf last in chain
I run amp sim in series but parallel the cab sim and use mic/placement to eq to taste
Then my effects in front of that
My signal chain
Wah>subnup >bassmuff>qtron>hxstomp>mxrmicroamp>optivalve>nemisis
Just to add to this the boss gt 1000 core has 2 loops where you can mix. Hx stomp does it as well.
Great! Thanks for adding this!
Surprised JAM Pedals were not mentioned at all. They make great bass drives
Can we use the Vertex boost for bass?
Some brands that do drive/gain effectspedals for bass very well (that I know and use) in my subjective view 😁:
(Extremely) modern to old school bass drive sounds: Darkglass, Tech21 NYC, Earthquaker Devices, EBS, Source Audio.
More oldschool drive bass sounds to more modern: JAM Pedals (LucyDreamer Bass / Rattler Bass / Red Muck Bass (all with blend knobs), Xotic Bass RC Booster, Xotic Bass BB Preamp, KASLEDER fx, SolidGold FX, Diamond FX, JHS, Way Huge (Pork&Pickle), all Tech21 NYC SansAmp stuff, Origin Effects preamp/DI’s, EBS, Nobels ODR, Fairfield Circuitry Barbershop.
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Dunlop Justin Chancellor Wah pedal is bass specific
Most active basses have passive pickups (EMGs are active) with an onboard preamp. A compressor, octave, chorus and Sansamp DI Bass driver are all I use. I have a solid state amp so the Sansamp is used to add a bit of warmth to my sound (not distortion).
Common problem with using parallel effects routing on bass is in fact FOH.
Much too often they just won’t let you use two DI’s. Too much hustle for them...
Especially on festivals where everything has to go ‘fast’.
That’s a real bummer, and very stupid too.
They also tend to insist on us using their crappy DI’s like Behringer, instead of the quality stuff many of us semi-pro bassplayers tend to bring like Radial, Tech21 or even Basswitch or Neve!
Having a nice live bass sound from FOH these days has become a real drag, wich includes how the bass is mixed in with the drums and all the useless subs they want from the kick drum. Like every band is a 2002 ‘new metal’ band...
It ain’t easy. Even when you bring/supply just the right stuff, keep things down onstage volume wise, and arrive early to meet the sound persons.
They’re like AI’s without self learning abilities... 😉
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Love bass boards. Only rule I follow, both as a studio engineer and a session+live musician is never ever use reverb on bass. ever.
I suppose it depends on the genre.
You’d never get to engineer anything I’d be involved with, ever. 🙂
@@regortex3364 Anytime I have used reverb on bass, its high passed super super high so that the low fundamntal frequencies aren't getting muddy. But some verb on the high end can definitely help a bass blend into the mix a bit better sometimes.
@@MitchellSpille - I was kidding btw. Usually it's not required on a bass track in a typical situation. I've had reverb in my bass rig for years, it's great for solos, interludes, intros, improvisation etc.
Atm I use a JHS 3 Series with the pre delay engaged, it's a great pedal. Cheers
Mason mentioned the JHS muffaletta - the tone control of that pedal is taken specifically from the old green sovtek muffs which is a favourite for bass players because of the way it’s voiced. Another great option is the wren and cuff tall front Russian which is a faithful recreation of the original if you’re after the cost or maintenance of a vintage pedal.
Thanks for adding this!
I wish I would’ve been in this podcast lol I’ve been using effects live for years and years.
Thanks for listening nontheless!
Thanks for making me want a big steak while listening at work! 😄
Any time!
Boss geb 7 / boss Ls 2 / boss sd 1
Yes BASS! ... GAS
Yes!!!
base guitar
There’s a lot of good info in this podcast but it is clear none of you have actually put in any time testing pedals on bass. next time you should get some actual bass players or bass gear builders involved.
Thanks for watching!!!