Get 20% OFF a healthy Jimmy Joy meal, shake, or bar: spn.so/q370xfua (Use code DAVIDWEN20) What have your experiences been with layoffs or getting fired in The Netherlands, USA, somewhere else? Tips & advice? Please share so we can help each other 🙏 ***CORRECTIONS*** - Max unemployment in NL is now 24 months (down from 38)
Well.. i got no other benefits from laid off.. just.. poof.. you are done, go away.. take your stuff back home and cry in the corner of your bedroom. Sayonara. And I've been struggling since 2 years ago now. There is a program from our government that somehow help unemployment with training benefits, but the regulations are always changing and the process is so confusing that most of people who got laid off never take consideration to participate in that program. I'm from Indonesia btw
And how I got laid off is.. it's mass layoff. I've got no severence/settlement agreement at all, since I just barely touch 1 year of service. But my friend is also didn't receive any even though they already working for 4-5 years. There are many suspicious stuff going on when that mass laid off happen, and we barely have any time to take action because.. sadly, those mass layoff happened too quick (2 weeks - 1 month) and we didn't have any union.
In Japan, it is similar to the Netherlands. It's difficult to layoff people but they can reassign people or ask to do work so much not great that people wants to leave. Usually, it ends up with 2 months salary. For the healthcare, we lost the work healthcare ... but healthcare is mandatory, so people need to subscribe to the city healthcare. This system is from the American after the war.
The max time of the uneployment benfits is 24 (38 was in the past bud abandoned like ten years ago). After 24 months you can apply for social assistance benefits but only if you have limited means.
After having lived and worked in several continents and many countries, my main advise would be that you should always look to minimize risk: be it by insurance, be it by savings, be it by any other way that covers unforeseen circumstances. Before starting any kind of new job/ work / asignment, think of what it means if you would lose the job or asignment and how that would cost you. So that in case it does happen, you can move on without financial trouble or minimum loss.
LEARN DUTCH! I find many Expat friends who lose their jobs and want to stay (say because of love) can't find a similar job because they don't speak Dutch and end up working in cafés. So when you really desire to stay learn Dutch. It hugely widens you job opportunities in this country.
Thanks! And appreciate you and UWV..I called a few times and the UWV was always very helpful and empathetic…which really made a difference for me. Thanks from the bottom of my heart, really 🙏🙏
@@hidavidwen That's likely because you've only ever dealt with the WW department. Who will gladly pay you out the "rainy day fund" which you've already paid for yourself while you were working. Wait until that fund runs out and you need to apply for actual unemployment benefits. That's where you'll find intimidation and scare tactics that would make an American "republican extremist" proud.
Dutch here. I have been layed off due to "performance issues". But at the moment my employer had decided that he wanted to send me off, I approached him with my own unhappiness. So that was actually a very good conversation. We agreed on some terms, and I went looking for a new job, while continuing really contributing to the business as well as I could. So no bad blood. A few years later I approached him as a customer. He sold some stuff I needed. So we had a cup of coffee over my new job and came to business. Sometimes things happen. That is painful. But taking that out on anyone doesn't help anyone, least of all yourself.
@@hidavidwen Burning bridges is never a good idea. When you're young you think the world is endless. It is not. If you do, you'll find out rather quickly and harshly that everyone knows someone who knows the guy you had your row with. Specialized professional communities are rather small.
I worked at a company where i had to fire about 60% of the people after the first internet bubble burst and we would still have roof bbq or party each year and invite all. The fact that all of them still showed up to have a beer and chat is something i am proud of instead of having them escorted from the building.. If i see it in a movie i always shake my head...
@@scb2scb2 With this strategy, the bosses buy so much loyalty from the remaining people, and also they can still approach the old if needed. There is even no need for the harsh security.
@@joopdesmit Indeed and it also signals that in these cases it was nothing personal or even something that the company by its nature wants todo. If it was personal or 'bad acting against the company' we would not invite you.
"In the Netherlands most companies provide healthcare." - I'm Dutch and I've never heard of a company that does this in my life. Is that an expat thing? p.s. Love this video David! Very fun.
A lot of compagny's had an arragement with a insureance compagny that gave you discount. It was pretty normale up to a couple of years ago when they changed some laws. The payments where done mostly directly from your salary. I guess he still had one of those.
@@arturobianco848 This is all option, keep that in mind. You do not have to use this. My employer does this as well and in my personal situation switching my insurance to their provider was more expensive so I did not opt in.
I think he's talking about 'Collectiviteits korting'. Many larger companies will negotiate a deal with a specific healthcare provider to cut on the cost of healthcare. You are free to go to any other healthcare provider.
Healthcare is not a company, private thing but mandatory in The Netherlands, whether they deduct it from your salary or not. It might be (I'm not aware of it) that for foreigners you need to get a personal insurance by paying a lump sum annually or a monthly sum and there is not salary (automatic) deduction obligation for the company, although I cannot really imagine why that would be. It is all 1 system where the health care is the same for all.
I actually get fully reimbursed for my healthcare insurance, basis + aanvullend. Which is weird, because I work for an American company, but for a Dutch entity of it. Not complaining though
Layoffs in the Netherlands are generally better arranged than the ones in the USA. While in the USA, I was still working for the Dutch company I used to work for, when I was living in the Netherlands. Then COVID hit and I thought it would be over for me immediately. Especially because I was self employed and was technically speaking not an employee. They only let me go when COVID lasted much longer than anticipated and with a couple months notice. All in all, I kept working for them until 13 months after COVID hit. For a business that only has customers in hospitality that pretty much shut down completely during those times, it was a pleasant surprise and something that would never happen in the USA.
This was something that showed at my new job as well. There is this annual survey (now that I write it I can't remember hearing or reading about it for more than a year now ;) ) held at work, but as the company I work is active in 3 countries around the world (including the USA), everybody was a bit struck to see that 'we' (the Dutch branch of the company and main office of the other branches) scored just 60% at overall satisfaction, while the US scored something like 86%. Questions were raised during a short talk about where the company was and was heading to and why this was such a big difference. One of the people in command (or at least high up in the hierarchy) said that during COVID, hardly anyone was laid off (not in The Netherlands or anywhere else) even though the market basically had come to a standstill. As US citizens are used to being laid off easy, they were significantly more satisfied with how they thought about the company than us Dutchies, but I was struck by how big the difference was.
Hi David, I really enjoyed your videos, and I am so sorry this happened to you. Sending you luck and positive energy for finding a position soon. Please reach out to the community if you need help or resources. We are here for you!
Wow this is pretty complete guide. Very solid information here. One little correction; max unemployment pay is 24 months at the moment. They changed it a while back from 38 to 24 months
Hey David, I hope you'll find new employment soon. But regarding lay-offs in general, the Netherlands unemployment laws at least help you for a short while. If you lose your job in Luxembourg though, you're covered extremely well, and for a much longer period. Your health insurance is sponsored by the state for the period of your unemployment benefits 😊 I wish you all the best ☘️
Correction: Dutch companies DON'T pay your health care. They sometimes have a 'deal' which is often shittier than getting healthcare yourself. Also: when people are let go, a common package in tech can be: a few months of pay and some help to get a new job. Either way.. the system a is bit too good to be useful and only works because most Dutch people don't know their rights. It's way too strict and hard to fire underperformers
No most companies don’t pay the healthcare insurance, but a lot of them have an agreement which gives you collective discount on the additional health insurance and the dental insurance. They are not allowed to give a collective discount on the mandatory basic health insurance. The collective discount also counts for other insurances you have with your health insurance company. In my case I got a 20% collective discount on my additional health insurance and 15% discount on my dental insurance. Because I also had a home insurance and property insurance with the same insurance company, I got a discount on those insurance premiums also. The bigger your company, the bigger your discount. On top of that I get an allowance for my healthcare insurance from my employer through the Collective Labor Agreement (CAO), of about €20 a month. But there are conditions attached to the allowance. So it is good practice for yourself to be aware of your CAO, read it and act upon it. I had to point out to them that they owe me a healthcare allowance, they don’t give it to you without applying for it.
Depends on the company and the industry you're in. Most companies I worked for in the past had a good collective discount arrangement or discounts on the additional package. Similar with pensions.
I disagree with the assessment that it's "too" good. That relies on the idea that it being too good makes people lazy or unwilling to work or some other form of becoming unproductive, but by all metrics, that is absolutely not the case. Supporting people in their transition from work to work ends up with them finding better suiting work, staying there for longer, for better pay, making them overall more productive than if you effectively "punished" them for being out of a job. Because that thinking is how you get the US way of doing things. Besides, it SHOULD be hard to fire people, because then companies have an investment in making the workplace attractive so stay at long term, instead of constantly fearing firing if you aren't exceeding your previous quarter's performance or whatever. You're going to have to eat the fact that occassionally you'll have to spend some time on an underperformer. If you want to have a business, you simply need to accept a less than 100% success rate on employees. Suck it up.
In addition: you can simply become a member of a trade union such as FNV. They will help you in the event of dismissal with legal assistance or a lawyer, at no cost. They also help in conflicts with your employer.
@@EGO0808 The membership for FNV is (atm) capped at max 19.22 a month. This can go through your companies HR which means you don't pay taxes over the membership. When you are a member the costs of the lawyer, if you need one, will be paid by FNV. I highly recommend finding a Union that fits your line of work if that is possible. Remember companies are not your friends.
I'd advise against that. FNV is up to 93% retired and their views on employment are archaic, right out of the 1970s. I had so many disagreements with them because I enforced safety laws, while in FNV's view, killing someone (like in Voorschoten) is quite okay. Also FNV is strongly against your interests if you're younger than 55 years. When confronted about how his work broke the law and contained two possible fatals, one FNV member told me, quote: "I've been doing this for 30 years! I won't be lectured by some 30 year old! I'm going to call the union now!" before he began crying and ran outside, not being seen for 3 days. Until some thug came up to me on the railyard and inquired who I was. Turns out he was from FNV and the thug wanted to 'discuss my disrespect'. I told him this was unacceptable and make an appointment via HR, then asked the thug to leave. He refused and claimed he had a right to be there. I told the thug to leave. He refused. I told the FNV thug he was now tresspassing and force would be employed to move him off-site before police would be called, and if he resisted he'd be detained until police arrived. (I worked security and army before ending up there, so this was fairly easy, but it would've been intimidating for most people what FNV did) Grudgingly the FNV thug left. This later became a legit talking point of theirs "Why isn't an oldie allowed to kill co-workers?" and "Why can't oldies and union thugs agressively scream at people?" were things that FNV somehow disagree on. They threatened strikes if the guy who was trying to get co-workers killed would be fired. The company I worked at folded under the pressure. Their safety record remains abysmally bad and they've had fatal accidents since. Your employer will see their presence as an unwelcome intrusion of third parties, as well as a sign that you're incapable of even handling a situation, permanently shuttering your chance of coming back. FNV is only an option if you feel you legitimately lack the mental capacity to conduct anything by yourself, or you're nearing retirement.
thank you for the explainer! if all goes according to plan, I'm graduating by the end of the year and then I'll need to know the ins and out of the job market, all about changing from student to worker with the IND, etc. hope things go great for you, David!
Great video. There are stark differences between the US and Europe. I am originally from Germany, and like the Netherlands, a company cannot just lay you off because they think they want too. The laws are pretty strikt and safe for employees. It goes even further, as the government even pays for university and more to get you onto a new career paths. In my case, after high school, I went to trade school and later University to become a telecommunication specialist and worked for the German Post/Telekom. Than I quit my job and moved to another part in Germany, during the German Post became privatized to the Telekom we all know today. However, during that time, thousands of people lost their jobs (in a human way) but because of that, I couldn't get a job at my new destination. So the German Arbeitsamt offered me to get a Masters degree in IT when I go for 2-3 years to University. They not only paid for University, but I also got a monthly check to pay for rent and living expense...ah yes, and health care is free in that case anyways. After finishing my degree, I got a great job at Siemens. This helped me a lot in my future careers and I am forever grateful for that opportunity. Thank you, Germany! In the US, I was lucky to have worked for a very "social" company. They got acquired by a competitor and laid off a lot of people, including me. However, they gave me 2 month head time, plus a nice package. However, during that time they re-hired me and kept the overall time I worked with the previous company as my start date, giving me the benefits like more vacation than if I would have started just now. Overall, the German/European system is awesome for the employees. It also pushes companies to hire more cautiously and with more future in mind. However, it can hinder fast growth for businesses as it is way harder to fire somebody. Also, keep in mind that the employee is bound by the same rules. You cannot just leave from one day to another. You also have to let the company know 1-2-3... month in advance that you are going to leave, so they have time to find a suitable replacement.
Thanks for sharing, it makes sense. I’ve also heard from business owners how hard it can be to let go of an actually bad/toxic employee…so there are pluses and minuses
Your video has given me much more confidence. My company just did the “mass layoff” announcement, and its roughly 50% of NL professional staff. Im 2 months away from being eligible to apply for my permanent residence. Hopefully the works council talks take longer than that and if i get picked out can negotiate for some really long garden leave during the permanent residence application wait time. Looks like it should be doable based on the examples you gave
Sad to hear you were let go. It's good to be prepared and never sign right away. Regardless of the benefits and safety net in the Netherlands losing your job has an effect on your mental health. I hope you find a new position soon. Take care.
First of all, I wish you the best of luck in finding a new job. I really like this video of yours and I must say it is well researched what the laws and rights are for a person who is fired or fired due to illness, this information is very important.
It's also good to know that when you get laid off, the UWV does not only take your last job into account, but rather all the jobs you had in the past 10 years. So if you worked at a company for 3 months and they lay you off, the UWV will use your employment history of all your jobs before the one you got laid off on as well. After 2 years of unemployment the 75-70% salary thing also stops btw: you then get only the bare minimum (bijstand).
Bijstand is not depending on employment history. Anybody can get it, regardless of whether they have worked or not. However, it's a small amount and requires some serious money management skills to make ends meet. And if you have too many savings, or posessions like a house, you will not get anything.
I'm Dutch and even I learned something now. Good thing you told me to never sign immediately. All these rules provide such large benefits to all of us, and to employers too. Employers are invested in their employees, which encourages a cycle of growth and development for the employees. This results in better employees overall and a happy company in the end. ❤ I love where I was born, and I would never want to leave
Glad to hear you learned something new! I was just responding to someone else who told me the company who laid him off tried to play "dirty" and get him to sign...but he didn't sign and found a lawyer...and he got €16.000 more because of it...always seek help first! I work in the HR world...and I've seen a lot of good HR teams but unfortunately...I've also seen (and now heard many stories) of bad companies that try to "play dirty" and the law helps protect these employees from those "dirty" companies...so it's helpful to know the law! Take care and happy spring
I am glad you showed the whole story, including the party hats they make unemployed people wear so everyone can spot them. It's not all sunshine and roses, you know.
He forgot the most important part that is the difference in tax rate. What he calls free is payed thru tax and absolutely not free . So basicly you pay for everything youreself and also for every bum that doesnt want to work.
I worked 8 years for a company and was laid off. They had structural reorganizations every 18 months, and at round 6, my ticket popped up ( age just over 50, so another age group ). These were mass-laid offs with a minimum of 50 people company wide. In order to fulfill this criterion and the age distribution requirement, younger persons were hired beforehand. In order to prevent replacement within the company, job openings were hidden for those concerned. Your story hold true; I got 6 months of garden leave, and about 1 years gross salary. However, this was a lump sum within a year, and taxed against 58%. Most of the elder employees that lost their job faced a long or permanent period of unemployment. The management of this company was USA, and shareholder value was ( and probably still is ) their main concern.
Thanks for sharing. Layoffs are never easy. Restructurings also kill employee morale. I've seen many of them myself...business is business everywhere (profits) but fortunately, in some places, there are more rights to protect employees
@hidavidwen, how was your recent Camino? Will u be sharing some videos on it? I will be finally be walking this coming mid May 2024. So excited 😊. Hope you have some gigantic doors opened by now
@hidavidwen! It was awesome! We had good fun walking the 100km from Sarria to Santiago and spent another week in barcelona. I think we are still high on camino. Lol. The camino de la plata is new to me. Wow. So many routes. Nice to hear that u are doing something that u like. Have a blast in oct
I'm Dutch, and your videos really help me to appreciate my own country more. I know Dutch people who want to leave because they think it's "boring" here. I'm not sure if most Dutch people know how good we have it here, we're a people who love to whine and complain.
Thanks for the kind words and glad to hear they have given you a different perspective. I also appreciate these comments because they help me gain a new perspective/appreciation too. Take care!
At 8:18, it's good to note that UWV sets a maximum monthly salary of € 5.969. So if you're earning more than that and are laid off, your unemployment benefits will be 75% or 70% of that set maximum, not your actual salary.
A family member of mine was going to get laid off after 20 years of working at the company. She escalated the layoff to the UWV and she eventually won. Lawyer fees paid for by the company. And she’s still working here, to this day. I didn’t realise how good we have it here until I heard stories about the US 😅
I was laid off a few years back. And you’re right, don’t sign an agreement immediately. I got to my lawyer first, if I had not done that I would have gotten €16000 less than they actually had to pay me. Reason for being fired, my chronic disease. They played dirty, or better tried but I refused to agree with anything less than I had a right to
Wow thanks for sharing. And the power of not signing immediately. 16K is a lot of money...and I'm happy to hear you "won" (especially since they played dirty). Unfortunately, I hear many stories of people signing right away because they're scared...but hearing stories like yours is very helpful for others. Thanks!
American here. I have never been laid off but you do make me want to move to the Netherlands. Great system. Looking forward to more reports. I hope you have found work.
My dad used to work at a bank in car fleet insurance and they kept trimming people in all departments and then the financial crisis hit and the bank had been too sloppy, needed help from the gov and needed to lay people off. But due to how forcefully the layoffs needed to be, the severance was massive. He got 3 months pay per year worked or something crazy like that, walked away with a bit over 6 figures, started his own company. PS: We also have Bijstand/participatiewet which is sort of like jobseekers allowance, you will get a small amount of money while you're looking, depending on some factors which doesn't have to do with the WA. That is really quite a tiny number though, so while it works as a net to keep people off the street, it's certainly not rewarding.
There is a so called ‘maximale transitievergoeding’, which is € 94k. If your year salary exceeds this amount, the maximum ‘transitievergoeding’ will be a one year gross salary.
@@EGO0808 Quite possible that the whole reorganization at ABN Amro was the reason for installing that max? Can't say 94k is insufficient so fair enough.
I've seen a lot of college's go, but thank god I am still in the place where I am at. 10 years now :) Great job with a lot of freedom and where people know how to act with my autism.
There's a very important thing to mention - if you're fired/laid off/whatever during your probation, which can take up to 2 month iirc, then you can be let go without any notice and even without providing a reason. It doesn't happen very ofter, but still important to know.
In Belgium minimum settlements are determined by law. Longer can be given and can be done with e.g. mass layoff. I worked at 1 company for a year, Mass layoff and I got 7 months. Next company, a year. 5 months. And both explained that if I were not with a Union, it would be best to become a member of any Union, so the Union will handle your unemployment benefits. In reality that means you get payment directly instead of trying to get it done all by yourself. In one situation it took me 9 months to get the money. Yes, you can join at any moment in your life, and unlike a gym, you can easily leave as well. When I was in a position where I had to fire people, I told them that as well. Imagine that: the company that fires you advises you to become a Union member. No company in Belgium really cares if you are a union member (elected members is different) as all have equal rights. And you can join and leave at any moment in your career. I even had one company who paid the union fees back.
You should make a video comparing with Belgium: after some 20 years at my current job, severance is a bit short of 3 years, healthcare is and remains free and unemployment payment is not limited in time
I knew back in the day, my dad got fired for no reason at all. But thank god he got to keep the deal for the house and also 100K from the place he worked at. Sadly both my parents were bad at money spending. So it went to waste. But I am seriously happy our jobs are safer to keep.
Thanks! The UWV were very helpful to me…I called them several times…and each time, they had great customer service. I really appreciated it…especially because most people who call about this stuff…well they are most likely going through a hard time. Thanks! 🙏
My wife was lucky enough to be laid off in the US (Minnesota) while she was on maternity leave and was thus able to receive unemployment for one year while raising our son. I could include both of them on family health insurance. We called it “being laid off into Sweden”. Now that son is in graduate school in the Netherlands. How are we so fortunate?
Healthcare in NL is just not tied to your employment, it does not mean that some companies might compensate you for the premium. The biggest difference is that everyone gets to pay the same premium for the basic healthcare coverage that is already covering almost everything (discounts through employer are very minimal and you might still opt for insurance outside of employer plan as it could be cheaper). In the US insurance companies use employment as a way to get healthier people so they can offer affordable premiums. If you try get insurance without a job, the premium will be sky high. Insurance companies need to do this, because there is nothing to protect them from only the sick people getting insurance with them. That does not exist in NL because EVERYONE must be insured and is paying an affordable premium.
Everything has pros and cons. Maybe it's harder to fire someone in Netherlands, but this has a lots of cons: potentially higher taxes (processing complaints from former employees by government offices or courts costs), potentially lower salaries (companies have to include extra "cost" of firing), potentially fewer investment and job opportunities (e.g. tech companies prefer lower-tax lower employee right countries like US, China, in EU Poland or Estonia is often chosen). And in those countries it's also pretty easy to be prepared for being fired: just save some of your salary for the rainy days, don't spend it all.
I am dutch but dont have much working eperiance as a adult there, I worked at supermarkets and fast food, they work on a temproary contract. And after 3 they are not allowed to give you a 4th so its a permenant contract or you just stop working there. When i finished my education i moved out since the systems that catch you are great, the culture i find is not. I understand coming from the US how the Netherlands can be a breath of fresh air. Good luck in your goals and i wish you all the best!
Sorry to hear that! Good luck on finding your next opportunity! I am glad you mentioned that most expats/foreigners/etc. who are not European (and of course not American!), do not have the luxury of staying in the country more than 90 days to look for a job as they are basically tied to their job to be here! Of course, it is totally understandable but sometimes I feel like it does get glossed over a lot and creates misconceptions for local Dutch on how "easy" most expat s have it here
Thanks for the kind words 🙏 it’s not easy to be a “foreigner”…some people uproot their entire lives, build a new one, and then everything gets taken away…the emotional toll of that can be catastrophic
Had exactly the same experience in the NL. Did not sign the papers, went to Rechtswinkel in Amsterdam for advice, got a lawer and got money in my bankaccount for 3 months from the company and three months from the government. I was working just one year in the company, they fired my because of financial problems within the company.
@@EGO0808 Not signing the companies proposal and relied, with help of de rechtswinkel, on the general laws in the Netherlands that apply to all, both employee as well as the employer. No signage required, nothing fishy about it. We have rights here, not benefits, we are not an American extension and the US laws do not apply here.
@@AlexK-yr2th Noone gets paid a dime, if they don't sign the agreement to terminate the contract. Of course, one could agree after negotiating with the help of any rechtswinkel (mind you, they are not lawyers or attorneys, in most cases they are in Dutch 'juridisch medewerkers', they stand no chance against experienced law firms) to get to an agreement, resulting in a financial compensation, however this needs to be signed black on white in a so called 'beeindiging arbeidsovereenkomst'. No signature means no money.
Correction, it depends. In Belgium if you are a public servant, it is mostly impssible to get fired. If you are an employee, you can get fired for cause without severance (must be a vallid lawful reason), or you can get dired with severance defined by law. So all depends how deep their pocket's are
Great video! Sorry to hear you lost your job, and I hope you are able to find a new one here okay. I am currently working my first job in the Netherlands and have a 1-year contract (with opportunity to continue with mutual agreement). I sometimes get really nervous about whether I will be let go after that year. But my Dutch friends assure me that 6 months into the job I would have an idea that they wouldn't want to keep me on board AND I'm told that they have to tell me whether they will continue my contract in advance so I have some time to look for a new job.
Thanks and for the kind words 🙏 yeah I’ve seen people get permanent contracts after half a year or when the year is almost there…if you are doing well that is Best of luck!
I'm sorry to hear that you got laid off, David, especially around your birthday. That sucks. I also think that you're so very smart that it shouldn't take you too long to find work elsewhere. Best of luck to you. As for me, I've been living and working in education for 24 years in the Netherlands and have gone through several issues with this, which I'll briefly share. I also want to add that after five years I was allowed Dutch citizenship, which comes with extra perks as well. When I was young in the States I began teaching in secondary education then later moved on to the university level. But never having achieved tenure depressed me to the point that I left to teach internationally. When I moved to the Netherlands my US degrees were evaluated by Nuffik, which I believe has been since replaced by other selfsame agencies. Anyway, through them I was only granted to teach HBO, which also depressed me because I'd had my heart set on teaching at Leiden U or UvA (Amsterdam). Regardless, because my Dutch was almost nonexistent when I first moved here I began teaching at lower levels. This inadequacy I corrected and advanced to teach at higher levels, which I'd felt I was more suited for. Regardless, I was playing the contract game, meaning that according to Dutch law you can be hired under contract for two years, but your third year the company or organisation is required by law to offer you permanent employment. In other words, fully employed individuals are harder to get rid of. 😉Thus, the contract game, which is when a company will renew your contract for two years and then won't the third year because of then having to hire you permanently. I did this with three different schools, where one would hire me for two years and not the third, but their affiliate would pick me up for their two years and so on. Finally, the last educational organisation I worked for had HR convincing me that I would finally be permanently hired my third year with them. But guess what happened? Yes, the global market crash of 2008 that affected the worldwide market. So, I didn't get the permanent contract promised me entering my third year after all. Instead, I went through the 10,000 euro revalidation that you speak of in your podcast. However, I didn't personally receive 10,000 euros. Rather, a revalidation centre of my employer's choice did. And the worker assigned me took one look at my degrees and resume and said that, according to Dutch standards, I was suited for education and the government wouldn't be spending money on me being retrained for anything else. So, the money was pocketed and I was told to set up a solication schema. Gosh, was that advice worth 10,000 euros? 😝 Meanwhile, the government subsidised rent, insurances, etc. And I didn't go on bijstand, which another commenter suggests here, because I was married to a Dutchman who also worked. But bijstand is also possible for you, yes. And it is your right. So, happy severance! I'd also suggest that since our European weather is now improving for late spring/early summer, go travel and/or enjoy the beach before reapplying for work again! And then you can really have a happy birthday! 🎈
Thanks so much for the kind words and the support, means a lot to me 🙏 Also for sharing your story. Gives me motivation and hope! I’ve always wanted to work more with university students…whether it is giving guest lectures here about certain topics and there or just talking to them…would I need to get another degree for that? And yes looking forward to spring/summer!
If you haven't already done so it would be good to get your degrees accessed by a bureau that does this in the Netherlands. Since it's been awhile that I'd had mine done I couldn't tell you who does it now, but you can Google it. You need a PhD to teach at the universities here, but don't shy away from the HBO's. They're also good to apply at for short- and long-term teaching posts. The lyceums and gymnasiums too are full of VWO students on pre-university tracks. And you could apply there to teach mini-courses in your field. You never know who's interested in you and what you have to offer until you try, right?
You forgot to mention that, in the netherlands, it can take you up to 3 years to get a contract for OBT (onbepaalde tijd). A company can give out 3 1-year contracts before giving you one. During these first years the company can choose to not give you a renewel for whatever reason they choose. But in this case you still get a transition package and unemployment benefits.
Shocked and Embarrassed! I watched your video when it was posted but it did not 'sink-in' that you were personally impacted by a lay-off until I watched your latest video. As a fellow Californian, your channel has been a source of inspiration for me as I methodically navigate my plan to set-up a home in the Netherlands in the near future. As you navigate this unplanned situation, I hope you can find the time to reset and regroup. Will you be coming back to California for a while to spend time with friends and family while planning for the next chapter in your career?
Thanks a lot for the kind words, I really appreciate them! Yeah I got laid off this past year but hey...everything happens for a reason. That's business. And life. Getting laid off sucks...but it was quite interesting (now that I look back) going through the Dutch system. Employees have A LOT of leverage. And I'm doing fine. Yes, I'll be visiting family and friends (and they'll be visiting me). Where are you now in terms of setting up your "future" home?
@@hidavidwen On-track financially to make this happen as I have 10-years of experience living in the Bay Area while managing a second home (investment) on the East Coast. Doing the same while living 90% in the Netherlands is a much greater challenge. Trying to determine if the 30% rule will truly benefit me and keep overall taxes under control. As you know, the details matter and timing is everything. Are you still 100% committed to the Netherlands? Would you be open to living in Den Haag as I see many opportunities there?
my mom got laid off after 30 years of working at a job and she got 2 years of her salary for "free" to find a new job in those 2 years. She doesn't need to work or something. You can see it as paid vacancy days but for 2 years. (this is in Belgium, neighbor of the Netherlands)
A key element of a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) is that it should be mutually set up. Meaning the plan needs to contain elements/input from both the employer and employee. Often this is not the case, the employer simply generates a PIP with, typically, unobtainable milestones and KPIs (designed to get rid of the employee). This PIP will not hold up in court, thus often works to the benefit of the employee.
Im dutch, and so far have only been laid off once. Unfortunatly, at the time I was working freelance, so I did not have regular protections. I was working "fake" freelance (only single customer, not multiple) and could have sued for benefits, but I work in a pretty good market and found a job through friends/colleagues within a month. In other positions once I had regular employment I've not been laid off, even when the company was troubled, since it was too much effort for them to set up so they just keep you on anyway.
The laws we have are indeed great, but there are extreme negative effects. You can literally work with a colleague who should be fired straight away, but if management or HR doesn't have the time for it... their employment will just continue and you will just have to live with their mistakes. And you will then have to correct their mistakes. It really stifles progress. Getting fired without a good reason should be unlawful, but the result is a lot of freeloaders, who barely do anything, but can't get fired.
Totally agree with that. I was recently laid off but because I worked for an employment agency (uitzendkracht) I had no right to anything. Employment agencies are big business in the Netherlands. Where I worked, there were a lot of Polish people who were exploited by the employment agencies that hired them.
@@courageousmelon5654 I totally understand and agree. I was just making the point that many businesses in the Netherlands use the services of utzendbureaus to circumvent the employee protection laws.
It can even get worse when the employee is protected by the union (vakbond) to a ridiculous level. Primary education has such over the top protection. Out of my own experience I've seen people being hired as a teacher and right after their probation they called in sick and from that point on they never worked again. Or a teacher who was sick because she had some disease which made it hard for her to function in cold weather. The principal learned that she went on a 3 week vacation in Austria. So, the principal talked to HR to fire her. Turned out he couldn't fire her because of union rules; she never stole or embezzled money, so she didn't break any rules.
Also fell victim to a restructuring in Germany. Notice periods there are more generous with 6 months after 15 years worked. Health insurance the same as in NL (actually the Dutch system was introduced during the German occupation in the 1940s. After the war the Dutch simply kept it). One thimg one had to be cautious was the severance package. If one opts for more money instead of garden leave then unemployment benefits will not be paid during the time of the legal notice period and also reduces the months of benefit payments.
You are very well protected in the Netherlands. Good to a certain extend but also challenging for companies. Imagine really having a bad functioning person. It is really expensive to get rid of such person. Calling in sick is often abused to prevent being kicked out. This might result in high pressure on the rest of the team. Or imagine having a small company then these additional cost can really have big impact on an organization. You might have to hire a second person while you only have 1 FTE.
Thanks for sharing. Yes good to point out that there are cons too..I know business owners who told me that they have a toxic/poor performer but they simply cannot get rid of them and it’s hurting their business…
David- I enjoy your channel and hope you’ve landed on your feet. You enjoy life in the NL so it would be a shame to depart before you’re ready. ( an aside- I do chuckle a bit anytime someone in HR gets laid off. A bit of schadenfreude, no doubt).
Hey David, Really sad to hear about your situation. Keep up the good work and you will get through this. Although there is some benefit for people coming from the most developed countries for job in Netherlands and off course working for 5 years in a permanent job, this privilege is not available for many people. I am personally badly impacted by the complex “employer” friendly rules. I had worked in a temporary contract where i was assured for 10 months that i was performing well, until when time came for renewal of my contract after an year, I had been kicked out with only 2 months to find a new job coz my visa was tied with my employment. There is no law to protect people in one year contract to stay and get a job with sponsor in Netherlands and its a sad reality that people in such situations have to crush their dreams and goals and leave the Netherlands. With that all the hopes of feeling the Netherlands as home also crashes badly. David, if you ever get a time, please research and make a video to protect people who go to Netherlands with one year contract job and their contract are not renewed for some reason of the employers. I wish that noone goes through the pain that i had to face & protect many future souls having beautiful dreams in their eyes to live their lives and make it big in the Netherlands.❤
Thanks for sharing and I can understand your pain. It’s not easy to be a foreigner..to have your life taken away all of a sudden…you’re not alone. Unfortunately it’s what can happen in business :/ I hope you are well and that you’ve found peace wherever you are 🙏
Today, it can be quite a hassle to keep staff within a reasonable budget. Laying off isn't a theme, the unemployment levels are lower than published openings ... more openings per unemployed. It is a tight employment market these days.
0:35 That bitterbal is genius 🤣 Good luck with the job hunt though. Protection against lay-off hell may seem blissful compared to the American system. Some parties, like employer unions, state employers are more reluctant to hire people if layoffs are so expensive, and it may cause foreign companies to be hesitant to open up shop in The Netherlands. I'm curious about your perspective!
Haha hey at least I can still have my bitterballen 😄 I don’t think foreign companies will stop business in NL because of the labor laws…there’s so much more to that. But from what I’ve seen in HR here, some companies decide to get leaner and reduce full-time headcount but hire more contractors, more temp workers, etc
A little extra note on unemployment benefits, there are some conditions you need to meet before you can get that money from the government. you need to have lived and worked 5 years in the netherlands and you need to be actively searching for a job. The government will stop paying you if they find out that you’re not actually searching for a job and just collecting unemployment. It’s in my opinion a great system and i still consider myself lucky for being born here. You pay your part of your salary to the government, they fund the needy ❤
I am no expert, but there is a few wrong assumptions here. I don't think its true that it is illegal in the netherlands to fire someone without good reason. However, firing someone without good reasons means the company is forced to pay. However, should an employee be fired because of good reason, the employee is NOT entitled to severance pay or anything else....
Thanks for sharing. I didn’t say it was illegal. But I do work in the HR world. There are always different reasons for firings/layoffs. Some legal. Some illegal. And if it does go to UWV/court, the company better have good reasons to do so. Valid legal reasons
Although it might not be illegal, but if there are no valid reasons to fire you, the company will have to cough up quite some money to compensate you. In the end your severance pay will be much higher than what you would have gotten if the company followed the rules. Mainly because it's a fine for being a bad employer.
Excellent video David. Very good information. But you are not completely (or partly) right on the details. The notice period is not (always) set by the number of years but by contract or both. And a good compensation (rule of thumb when you end up in court) is you get paid a month of salary for every year you worked there, especially when you did not have a bad annual review, which gives you a good negotiation position. In case of a reorganization, you can go much further because your lay off is a way for them to make more money or loose less and you should not carry the burden of that. And do not forget to have them pay out your days off and other gravy you have a right to, even in future (some bonus, tantième, profit share are based on the previous financial year and are basically paid a year later; you don't loose the right to those either). Even when, for example, you go on 3 months (paid) garden leave, those 3 months you have a right to the above, including all social insurances. Most people forget about these completely and agree to a final settlement that excludes these. This might be a good time for you to move out of Amsterdam and experience the real Netherlands. I strongly suggest to orientate on the Eindhoven region where a lot of jobs on the International market are available (the region is becoming a Dutch silicone valley, without the mountains I mean) and Brabant is so, so, so much better to live in than the Randstad by far. Your costs of living will also reduce substantially. Myself, I been laid off a few times as well and never walked away with less than 6-12 months salary, apart from the bonusses and tantièmes. Like you said, do not agree with their (first few) proposals and don't hesitate to openly discuss going to court if their proposals are not satisfactory, specially when you never received a bad (annual) review or they didn't provide any indication. The court will look at all these things but also the fact that you are a foreigner that will end up in a bad situation (and the employer is (or needs to be) aware of that). They took the responsibility of hiring a foreigner and have to accept the consequences that it will cause visa problems and/or relocation expenses of some sort. They cannot wave their responsibility by trying to be the judge and jury in their own court. These "rules of thumb" as described above and the reason why the company decides to lay you off for are a huge consideration to the court. The company knows all this and will push you to the max but are totally aware of what a court would decide and have to cave in eventually, not risking having to pay all the legal costs and damages they (might) cause when the outcome is basically always the same in the Netherlands. Even in case you have a 1 year contract, for example, and they want to lay you off after 6 months, they have to pay out the full value of the contract, since the risk for the company is already limited to the duration of that contract that is solely a benefit to them and not to you.
@@hidavidwen I just read my reply again and I mention court a lot without explaining that in the Netherlands a company cannot just sack you but have to seek the court's permission to do so, unless the contract provides otherwise. I think my comment makes a lot more sense that way... Anywayz, how are things?
@@AlexK-yr2th Thanks for the info! Things are good =) Took some time off in nature and ready for the summer whenever that comes. Hope you have a nice summer!
Note: when want to finish dutch college, you're required to have an internship, lets say; if your intern employer fires you, you dont get the same help as normal work, instead you either do the schoolyear over again or you quit school. Moral story: internship sucks, just go for a job and even if you dislike job interviews, it still is better than being exploited on the intern job.
Technically I been laid off once, but that was because it was clear that the company and myself where no longer a good match as I had outgrown any jobs they could offer me. They could have been assholes about it and just shrugged and waited until I would unquestionably quit, but they wanted to offer me a nicer way out with an agreement which meant a severance pay for me, gardening leave and the ability to collect unemployment and while I didn't expect to need that part, I did end up signing all that 2 weeks before the world shut down because of covid so it saved me big time. Beyond that I always ended up either leaving on my own during my contract or when they expired.
In Belgium in case of Mass layoffs, and bankrupcy isnt the reason, so like restructuring, there is the law Clays aka "Law - Renault" ( coz renault leaving was the reason of creating this law) . The multinational i worked for closed its Belgian offices in 2006, it was my first job out of uni, but a quite well paid one. I worked there for 4,5 years, got 54K Euro.....BUT that is before tax. Yes the gvm forces the companies to be generous and then take half. 28K after tax and that is coz 10K is tax exempt. They tax the rest at 60+%. I was young and found a job immediately, so it was still a win. My manager on the other hand was 54, worked for them decades, wasnt able to find a job elsewhere coz he was too expensive. He did get several hundred thousands as severance pay.
about 10y ago I got fired for automating my job, which would make about 10 employees including myself obsolete. My boss told me it would be cheaper to fire me and to not implement it than to pay those 10 people their unemployment contracts. That math obviously doesn't check out but my point I guess is that there's a gray area here.
@@hidavidwen I guess it is because they had almost all been in the company for 20 +- years, that makes it very expensive. I was only there for half a year. My math; +- 320k a year less in costs but it might've been up to 600k in unemployment costs, idk their contracts. I dont think I needed to get fired though :')
workers council isn't something that can decide on the decisions of how and why letting people go. its more on an advise basis rather than a deciding factor.
Good luck with finding a new job. I don't know your specialty but the job market is still going strong at the moment. Getting a company to be your sponsor could be harder. Small companies don't want to do all the paperwork. Please keep us posted. If you have a relationship with a Dutch person he/she could be your sponsor so you have more time to find a new job.
side note on healthcare, the nation does it as a collective but it's not free. Then there are discount collectives per company, which isn't extremely common, but most larger companies have it. Everybody pays but poor people get subsidies for it.
If you’re laid off in NL, and you have a permanent residency card, DO NOT sign any agreement that says your layoff is upon your request. I don’t know if foreigners with a permanent residency status are entitled to unemployment benefits, but signing anything that states you requested to be laid off will make it you not qualify for unemployment at all. If you’re for any reason that was under your control, then unemployment is off the table anyway
Thanks for sharing this. I've now heard a few stories of this happening...some people (foreigners/local) don't even know this...I mean getting laid off can be very emotional/stressful...and then try to read a legal document (with one sentence that could cost you a lot of money)...so thanks for sharing
Belgium is not like this with regards to letting someone go. They send you a registered letter. To my knowledge you can't negotiate. In Ireland it is very difficult to let someone go. You have to provide every possible chance to the person and often it is very difficult to the manager and the team.
You can still have the American way here in the Netherlands. Be a zzp (independent contractor). You are paid an hourly rate, and make more money. But you can be laid off easily, unlike if you're working for a company. Being sick means no pay. And no work is no uwv (unemployment benefit). You are taking the risks. Still having the dutch healthcare.
@@hidavidwen Do not do that, Entrepreneurship is way different in the Netherlands then other places in the world. the tax is very high, but you are a EXPAT you would say, sorry that isn't the way it works, British EXPAT had different rulings, cause they were part of the EU. US expat usually go broke when they start a business in the Netherlands paying double tax (dutch and US tax) unless you come in with a different immigration status (which most US expat never asked for or were offered). The Freelance can work but again really study the way you came into the Netherlands and the US rulings that upholds it, so your 5 year in the Netherlands might be counted as 0 years cause of the US rulings. while technically anybody living in the Netherlands for 5 years can become a Dutch Citizen, thus all Dutch safety and security net applies to you then, cause of the US expat ruling you are not eligible for it.
Pretty much, no matter what the reason. In the US you are on your own. And I'm fine with it. Had and lost more jobs than any three people I know combined! Now on my final job before retirement.
Bank gave me a big bag of money, to get rid of me after 23 years (normal amount after such a long time). I would have preferred a job fit for my skills and the correct pay, but they refused both. They also paid for outplacement (because mandated by law). Very weird vibes and lots of frustration in those online meeting (due to covid). Luckily I was between jobs for only 3 weeks.
In those online meetings, we (4-5 people per teacher) looked like a segment from the movie "Up in the air" (2009). Getting fired really is one of the most devastating events in a person's life.
You do not always get 90 days to search for a new job if you are on a visa, you will get it only if your residence permit hasn’t expired, which it does if the contract was signed for a one year for example (very typical), and the residence permit is given for the same amount of time. So when I was losing job for example, I almost got no time to search for another one.
When you're laid off in the Netherlands, you're covered for 2 years of unemployment. First year, you'll be paid out 100% of your salary (not sure what the cap is, but the average income is easily covered), then after 1 year, you get another year of payment, only this year it's 70%.
Are you sure? It is 2 years indeed, first two months it is 75% of the average on last year of income, after these two months the remainder is at 70%. The cap is at 45K on a year income.
@@EGO0808 Woops, I'm all wrong, you're correct. What I'm thinking of is sick leave, that's when these financial rules apply. Please forget what I wrote, I twisted 2 things up.
Got laid of for 'under performance'. The route they took was: They: 'You are under performing.' Me: 'OK, how do I improve?' They: 'You need to feel it... and you can always ask us for help!'. Me: 'Okay... So, can you help me? (No) Is that feedback system already up and running? (No) Do you have time to sit with me? (No) etc.' They: 'You are fired, you didn't improve and your could see this coming!' My lawyer: 'This severance package proves they have no proof and no documentation and they just want to get rid of you. Considering the amount, you're best off to accept it. But Employers... she's not going to work for the last 2 months, but will keep on having her pay.' Because of my lawyer and the amount of time I got, I was technically unemployed for 2 days. UWV was a bit annoying for a lot longer, demanding I found a second job for 4 hours a week...
Dutchie here Usa more competitive, netherlands overall higher standard living.. but this is also a downside for the economy itself.. less innovation and investments.. so more conctraction.. you can say about china what you want.. Avarage salary in usd Usa 5k China 4,2k Netherlands 3,2k But living in usa city big city/ capital is like USA expensive so high pay needed NL maybe 60-70% of usa China 50% compared to NL So Purchasing parity is so much higher there.. a lot more to invest per person.. even more avarage to Americans If you dollar cost avarage the chinese currency as an European since 1992 you would be soooooo much richer.....
Do you have to leave the Netherlands when you get your benefits from the UWV and your visa is not sponsered? Because that's a payment from insurance and therefore still an income. After the period of your UWV unemployment-benefits ends people have to go to the city for a welfare income (Bijstand/Participatieuitkering). That's an income directly payed out of taxes and this can be refused to foreigners (depending on your situation).
That depends on what kind of "visum" you have. Some will get you kicked out of the country if you ask voor welfare. The wellfare people are by law required to send a signale to the right autoritis if you do that whith that kind of visa. I had to do it couple of times when i worked in that field.
Thanks, I am not entirely sure as I haven’t experienced that but maybe someone else can answer? I did call UWV who said you can still get unemployment benefits as long as you have any valid visa (whether it’s company sponsored or entrepreneur)
Thanks for sharing your experience of living in Dutch. I was wonder is speaking the local language required to work and study in Dutch? How did learn to speak Dutch?
Thanks! Learning the language of course helps. It depends on what you do. For many multinational companies, the main language is English in the workplace. But if you want to teach or something that requires interaction with Dutch customers/clients, of course the language is required.
I only had 2 jobs. 1 was part time, I quite on my own. The other one is full time which i have been doing for 15 years now. I never got fired from a job.
If you’re in a union, you can get legal representation trough the union. They did a lot for me when i was fired. And because i’m still a member they will represent me in the future if i need it.
I've worked in the USA and the Netherlands. Being laid off in NL is a better experience than being employed in most American jobs. Both times I was laid off in NL I got over $20k plus kept the laptop, company phone etc.
Very interesting video in South Africa as soon as you get a job say a month later and still trying to get your UFI money from the government you lose it. They will not give you the money for that as you now have a job. So if you are without a job for a month and the UIF process is so long and hard to get help it will take longer than you have time to do it.
Very similar story as what happend to my foreign girlfriend. Was suddenly scheduled for an appointment, no info on what it was about. I warned her in advance she may get laid off, and told her not to sign anything and not get involved in a discussion. Just listen. She was indeed laid off and pressured to sign severance immediately. "because that was better for her". Fortunately she remembered what I told her. Given she was very emotional about it and didn't work at that company very long yet, and didn't want to go the legal route, she eventually took the deal. Later she got critiqued by the UWV that the company didn't update the dates in the settlement properly. Anyway, she had a new better job in no time at all. Just be warned. Get proper legal aid in this event. You have a stronger position then you think.
My father could prove his boss let him go unlawfully and he won, they had to pay him 60k. I have also gone through the process but they handled it in a very nasty way so that sucked. I could have gotten more out of it but the social contacts were completely damaged beyond repair. Learned a lot about the process and my rights though. And I might not have gotten much (3k I believe), I took the boss his daughter with me (who was supposed to take over the company) because she didn't like how it was handled. She hasn't returned since, it's been 10 yrs ago. Oh and another guy who was really good at coding and was definitely underpaid - he found a job that paid him double soon after - I consider it a win.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah I’ve heard of some nasty stories unfortunately :/ Though it’s nice to know the rights/processes..it can be quite complicated. And negotiations are always a game..hopefully it’s a compassionate one especially if employee was a good one but yes I’ve heard of nasty games :/
David, don't know what kind of finance you do but, heard ASML was looking for some financial people. Not my line of work but grapevines work in mysterious ways.
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What have your experiences been with layoffs or getting fired in The Netherlands, USA, somewhere else? Tips & advice? Please share so we can help each other 🙏
***CORRECTIONS***
- Max unemployment in NL is now 24 months (down from 38)
Well.. i got no other benefits from laid off.. just.. poof.. you are done, go away.. take your stuff back home and cry in the corner of your bedroom. Sayonara.
And I've been struggling since 2 years ago now.
There is a program from our government that somehow help unemployment with training benefits, but the regulations are always changing and the process is so confusing that most of people who got laid off never take consideration to participate in that program.
I'm from Indonesia btw
And how I got laid off is.. it's mass layoff. I've got no severence/settlement agreement at all, since I just barely touch 1 year of service. But my friend is also didn't receive any even though they already working for 4-5 years.
There are many suspicious stuff going on when that mass laid off happen, and we barely have any time to take action because.. sadly, those mass layoff happened too quick (2 weeks - 1 month) and we didn't have any union.
In Japan, it is similar to the Netherlands. It's difficult to layoff people but they can reassign people or ask to do work so much not great that people wants to leave. Usually, it ends up with 2 months salary.
For the healthcare, we lost the work healthcare ... but healthcare is mandatory, so people need to subscribe to the city healthcare. This system is from the American after the war.
The max time of the uneployment benfits is 24 (38 was in the past bud abandoned like ten years ago).
After 24 months you can apply for social assistance benefits but only if you have limited means.
After having lived and worked in several continents and many countries, my main advise would be that you should always look to minimize risk: be it by insurance, be it by savings, be it by any other way that covers unforeseen circumstances. Before starting any kind of new job/ work / asignment, think of what it means if you would lose the job or asignment and how that would cost you. So that in case it does happen, you can move on without financial trouble or minimum loss.
LEARN DUTCH! I find many Expat friends who lose their jobs and want to stay (say because of love) can't find a similar job because they don't speak Dutch and end up working in cafés. So when you really desire to stay learn Dutch. It hugely widens you job opportunities in this country.
Helemaal eens!
Also generally it's just kind of disrespectful to live&stay in a country and not learn the language, right?
@@stormpetrel5645 Also true, except in A'dam that's often hard, given the amount of expats. ;)
Also if you want to live somewhere it’s pretty weird if you don’t try to learn the language in my opinion. It’s a form of respect.
@@KootFloris bruh another reason why 020 is worse
As someone working for the UWV in the WW department this is quite accurate and well explained. Thanks for the appreciation!
Thanks! And appreciate you and UWV..I called a few times and the UWV was always very helpful and empathetic…which really made a difference for me. Thanks from the bottom of my heart, really 🙏🙏
Hey Co-worker, didn't you notice the mistake he made? It says a max of 38 months of WW, but it is max 24 months. #lerenenverbeteren 😀
@@hidavidwen That's likely because you've only ever dealt with the WW department. Who will gladly pay you out the "rainy day fund" which you've already paid for yourself while you were working.
Wait until that fund runs out and you need to apply for actual unemployment benefits. That's where you'll find intimidation and scare tactics that would make an American "republican extremist" proud.
Dutch here. I have been layed off due to "performance issues". But at the moment my employer had decided that he wanted to send me off, I approached him with my own unhappiness. So that was actually a very good conversation. We agreed on some terms, and I went looking for a new job, while continuing really contributing to the business as well as I could. So no bad blood. A few years later I approached him as a customer. He sold some stuff I needed. So we had a cup of coffee over my new job and came to business.
Sometimes things happen. That is painful. But taking that out on anyone doesn't help anyone, least of all yourself.
Thanks for sharing this success story. It’s good not to “burn bridges” and maintain good relationships
@@hidavidwen Burning bridges is never a good idea. When you're young you think the world is endless. It is not. If you do, you'll find out rather quickly and harshly that everyone knows someone who knows the guy you had your row with. Specialized professional communities are rather small.
I worked at a company where i had to fire about 60% of the people after the first internet bubble burst and we would still have roof bbq or party each year and invite all. The fact that all of them still showed up to have a beer and chat is something i am proud of instead of having them escorted from the building.. If i see it in a movie i always shake my head...
@@scb2scb2 With this strategy, the bosses buy so much loyalty from the remaining people, and also they can still approach the old if needed. There is even no need for the harsh security.
@@joopdesmit Indeed and it also signals that in these cases it was nothing personal or even something that the company by its nature wants todo. If it was personal or 'bad acting against the company' we would not invite you.
"In the Netherlands most companies provide healthcare." - I'm Dutch and I've never heard of a company that does this in my life. Is that an expat thing? p.s. Love this video David! Very fun.
A lot of compagny's had an arragement with a insureance compagny that gave you discount. It was pretty normale up to a couple of years ago when they changed some laws. The payments where done mostly directly from your salary. I guess he still had one of those.
@@arturobianco848 This is all option, keep that in mind. You do not have to use this. My employer does this as well and in my personal situation switching my insurance to their provider was more expensive so I did not opt in.
I think he's talking about 'Collectiviteits korting'.
Many larger companies will negotiate a deal with a specific healthcare provider to cut on the cost of healthcare.
You are free to go to any other healthcare provider.
Healthcare is not a company, private thing but mandatory in The Netherlands, whether they deduct it from your salary or not. It might be (I'm not aware of it) that for foreigners you need to get a personal insurance by paying a lump sum annually or a monthly sum and there is not salary (automatic) deduction obligation for the company, although I cannot really imagine why that would be. It is all 1 system where the health care is the same for all.
I actually get fully reimbursed for my healthcare insurance, basis + aanvullend.
Which is weird, because I work for an American company, but for a Dutch entity of it.
Not complaining though
Layoffs in the Netherlands are generally better arranged than the ones in the USA.
While in the USA, I was still working for the Dutch company I used to work for, when I was living in the Netherlands. Then COVID hit and I thought it would be over for me immediately. Especially because I was self employed and was technically speaking not an employee. They only let me go when COVID lasted much longer than anticipated and with a couple months notice. All in all, I kept working for them until 13 months after COVID hit. For a business that only has customers in hospitality that pretty much shut down completely during those times, it was a pleasant surprise and something that would never happen in the USA.
They are ALWAYS better arranged....
@@AlexK-yr2th arrogance or ignorance?
Tax rate in the Netherland also way higher than the usa
Thanks for sharing!
This was something that showed at my new job as well. There is this annual survey (now that I write it I can't remember hearing or reading about it for more than a year now ;) ) held at work, but as the company I work is active in 3 countries around the world (including the USA), everybody was a bit struck to see that 'we' (the Dutch branch of the company and main office of the other branches) scored just 60% at overall satisfaction, while the US scored something like 86%. Questions were raised during a short talk about where the company was and was heading to and why this was such a big difference. One of the people in command (or at least high up in the hierarchy) said that during COVID, hardly anyone was laid off (not in The Netherlands or anywhere else) even though the market basically had come to a standstill.
As US citizens are used to being laid off easy, they were significantly more satisfied with how they thought about the company than us Dutchies, but I was struck by how big the difference was.
Hi David, I really enjoyed your videos, and I am so sorry this happened to you. Sending you luck and positive energy for finding a position soon. Please reach out to the community if you need help or resources. We are here for you!
Thanks so much, can’t tell you how much this means to me 🙏🙏
Wow this is pretty complete guide. Very solid information here. One little correction; max unemployment pay is 24 months at the moment. They changed it a while back from 38 to 24 months
Good catch! Thanks will add to description/pinned comment when I find time 🙏🙏
Hey David, I hope you'll find new employment soon. But regarding lay-offs in general, the Netherlands unemployment laws at least help you for a short while. If you lose your job in Luxembourg though, you're covered extremely well, and for a much longer period. Your health insurance is sponsored by the state for the period of your unemployment benefits 😊 I wish you all the best ☘️
If you earn below 37.000 euro a year in the Netherlands you also get up to 123 euro a month back on your health insurance from the goverment.
Thanks for the kind words 🙏🙏
Sad to hear you lost your job. Lucky though you're clearly a person that knows to make the best out of it and thus we got this amazing video :)
Thanks for the kind words, means a lot 🙏
Correction: Dutch companies DON'T pay your health care. They sometimes have a 'deal' which is often shittier than getting healthcare yourself. Also: when people are let go, a common package in tech can be: a few months of pay and some help to get a new job.
Either way.. the system a is bit too good to be useful and only works because most Dutch people don't know their rights. It's way too strict and hard to fire underperformers
You can always negotiate health care compensation. You’re as strong as you present yourself.
No most companies don’t pay the healthcare insurance, but a lot of them have an agreement which gives you collective discount on the additional health insurance and the dental insurance. They are not allowed to give a collective discount on the mandatory basic health insurance. The collective discount also counts for other insurances you have with your health insurance company. In my case I got a 20% collective discount on my additional health insurance and 15% discount on my dental insurance. Because I also had a home insurance and property insurance with the same insurance company, I got a discount on those insurance premiums also. The bigger your company, the bigger your discount. On top of that I get an allowance for my healthcare insurance from my employer through the Collective Labor Agreement (CAO), of about €20 a month. But there are conditions attached to the allowance. So it is good practice for yourself to be aware of your CAO, read it and act upon it. I had to point out to them that they owe me a healthcare allowance, they don’t give it to you without applying for it.
Depends on the company and the industry you're in. Most companies I worked for in the past had a good collective discount arrangement or discounts on the additional package. Similar with pensions.
Thanks for sharing. I did mean that companies don’t pay but do have collective agreements.
I disagree with the assessment that it's "too" good. That relies on the idea that it being too good makes people lazy or unwilling to work or some other form of becoming unproductive, but by all metrics, that is absolutely not the case. Supporting people in their transition from work to work ends up with them finding better suiting work, staying there for longer, for better pay, making them overall more productive than if you effectively "punished" them for being out of a job. Because that thinking is how you get the US way of doing things.
Besides, it SHOULD be hard to fire people, because then companies have an investment in making the workplace attractive so stay at long term, instead of constantly fearing firing if you aren't exceeding your previous quarter's performance or whatever. You're going to have to eat the fact that occassionally you'll have to spend some time on an underperformer. If you want to have a business, you simply need to accept a less than 100% success rate on employees. Suck it up.
In addition: you can simply become a member of a trade union such as FNV. They will help you in the event of dismissal with legal assistance or a lawyer, at no cost. They also help in conflicts with your employer.
It’s not at ‘no cost’. Membership isn’t exactly for free.
@@EGO0808 The membership for FNV is (atm) capped at max 19.22 a month. This can go through your companies HR which means you don't pay taxes over the membership. When you are a member the costs of the lawyer, if you need one, will be paid by FNV. I highly recommend finding a Union that fits your line of work if that is possible. Remember companies are not your friends.
@@thejdi all I was indicating, that there are always costs incurred, nothing is for free.
plus unionbusting virtually doesn't happen since we have robust anti-unionbusting laws
I'd advise against that. FNV is up to 93% retired and their views on employment are archaic, right out of the 1970s. I had so many disagreements with them because I enforced safety laws, while in FNV's view, killing someone (like in Voorschoten) is quite okay. Also FNV is strongly against your interests if you're younger than 55 years.
When confronted about how his work broke the law and contained two possible fatals, one FNV member told me, quote: "I've been doing this for 30 years! I won't be lectured by some 30 year old! I'm going to call the union now!" before he began crying and ran outside, not being seen for 3 days.
Until some thug came up to me on the railyard and inquired who I was. Turns out he was from FNV and the thug wanted to 'discuss my disrespect'. I told him this was unacceptable and make an appointment via HR, then asked the thug to leave. He refused and claimed he had a right to be there. I told the thug to leave. He refused. I told the FNV thug he was now tresspassing and force would be employed to move him off-site before police would be called, and if he resisted he'd be detained until police arrived. (I worked security and army before ending up there, so this was fairly easy, but it would've been intimidating for most people what FNV did)
Grudgingly the FNV thug left.
This later became a legit talking point of theirs "Why isn't an oldie allowed to kill co-workers?" and "Why can't oldies and union thugs agressively scream at people?" were things that FNV somehow disagree on. They threatened strikes if the guy who was trying to get co-workers killed would be fired.
The company I worked at folded under the pressure. Their safety record remains abysmally bad and they've had fatal accidents since.
Your employer will see their presence as an unwelcome intrusion of third parties, as well as a sign that you're incapable of even handling a situation, permanently shuttering your chance of coming back.
FNV is only an option if you feel you legitimately lack the mental capacity to conduct anything by yourself, or you're nearing retirement.
thank you for the explainer! if all goes according to plan, I'm graduating by the end of the year and then I'll need to know the ins and out of the job market, all about changing from student to worker with the IND, etc. hope things go great for you, David!
You’re welcome and thanks, good luck on the job hunt!
Great video. There are stark differences between the US and Europe. I am originally from Germany, and like the Netherlands, a company cannot just lay you off because they think they want too. The laws are pretty strikt and safe for employees. It goes even further, as the government even pays for university and more to get you onto a new career paths.
In my case, after high school, I went to trade school and later University to become a telecommunication specialist and worked for the German Post/Telekom. Than I quit my job and moved to another part in Germany, during the German Post became privatized to the Telekom we all know today. However, during that time, thousands of people lost their jobs (in a human way) but because of that, I couldn't get a job at my new destination. So the German Arbeitsamt offered me to get a Masters degree in IT when I go for 2-3 years to University. They not only paid for University, but I also got a monthly check to pay for rent and living expense...ah yes, and health care is free in that case anyways. After finishing my degree, I got a great job at Siemens. This helped me a lot in my future careers and I am forever grateful for that opportunity. Thank you, Germany!
In the US, I was lucky to have worked for a very "social" company. They got acquired by a competitor and laid off a lot of people, including me. However, they gave me 2 month head time, plus a nice package. However, during that time they re-hired me and kept the overall time I worked with the previous company as my start date, giving me the benefits like more vacation than if I would have started just now.
Overall, the German/European system is awesome for the employees. It also pushes companies to hire more cautiously and with more future in mind. However, it can hinder fast growth for businesses as it is way harder to fire somebody. Also, keep in mind that the employee is bound by the same rules. You cannot just leave from one day to another. You also have to let the company know 1-2-3... month in advance that you are going to leave, so they have time to find a suitable replacement.
Well explained
Thanks for sharing, it makes sense. I’ve also heard from business owners how hard it can be to let go of an actually bad/toxic employee…so there are pluses and minuses
Your video has given me much more confidence. My company just did the “mass layoff” announcement, and its roughly 50% of NL professional staff. Im 2 months away from being eligible to apply for my permanent residence. Hopefully the works council talks take longer than that and if i get picked out can negotiate for some really long garden leave during the permanent residence application wait time.
Looks like it should be doable based on the examples you gave
Sending some positive wishes over to you. I know what it’s like and hopefully things work out in your favor 🙏
Sad to hear you were let go. It's good to be prepared and never sign right away. Regardless of the benefits and safety net in the Netherlands losing your job has an effect on your mental health. I hope you find a new position soon. Take care.
Thanks for the kind words, appreciate you 🙏
First of all, I wish you the best of luck in finding a new job. I really like this video of yours and I must say it is well researched what the laws and rights are for a person who is fired or fired due to illness, this information is very important.
It's also good to know that when you get laid off, the UWV does not only take your last job into account, but rather all the jobs you had in the past 10 years. So if you worked at a company for 3 months and they lay you off, the UWV will use your employment history of all your jobs before the one you got laid off on as well.
After 2 years of unemployment the 75-70% salary thing also stops btw: you then get only the bare minimum (bijstand).
Thanks for sharing. That’s very useful to know!
Bijstand is not depending on employment history. Anybody can get it, regardless of whether they have worked or not. However, it's a small amount and requires some serious money management skills to make ends meet. And if you have too many savings, or posessions like a house, you will not get anything.
I'm Dutch and even I learned something now. Good thing you told me to never sign immediately.
All these rules provide such large benefits to all of us, and to employers too. Employers are invested in their employees, which encourages a cycle of growth and development for the employees. This results in better employees overall and a happy company in the end. ❤
I love where I was born, and I would never want to leave
Glad to hear you learned something new! I was just responding to someone else who told me the company who laid him off tried to play "dirty" and get him to sign...but he didn't sign and found a lawyer...and he got €16.000 more because of it...always seek help first!
I work in the HR world...and I've seen a lot of good HR teams but unfortunately...I've also seen (and now heard many stories) of bad companies that try to "play dirty" and the law helps protect these employees from those "dirty" companies...so it's helpful to know the law!
Take care and happy spring
I am glad you showed the whole story, including the party hats they make unemployed people wear so everyone can spot them. It's not all sunshine and roses, you know.
The hats are the worst.
He forgot the most important part that is the difference in tax rate. What he calls free is payed thru tax and absolutely not free . So basicly you pay for everything youreself and also for every bum that doesnt want to work.
😄😂😂🙏
I worked 8 years for a company and was laid off. They had structural reorganizations every 18 months, and at round 6, my ticket popped up ( age just over 50, so another age group ). These were mass-laid offs with a minimum of 50 people company wide. In order to fulfill this criterion and the age distribution requirement, younger persons were hired beforehand. In order to prevent replacement within the company, job openings were hidden for those concerned. Your story hold true; I got 6 months of garden leave, and about 1 years gross salary. However, this was a lump sum within a year, and taxed against 58%. Most of the elder employees that lost their job faced a long or permanent period of unemployment.
The management of this company was USA, and shareholder value was ( and probably still is ) their main concern.
Thanks for sharing. Layoffs are never easy. Restructurings also kill employee morale. I've seen many of them myself...business is business everywhere (profits) but fortunately, in some places, there are more rights to protect employees
Sorry to hear abt the news David. Wishing you all the best in your next adventure! When one door closes, many windows will open for you.
Thanks a lot! 🙏 Appreciate the kind words (over the years too). Another door will open :)
@hidavidwen, how was your recent Camino? Will u be sharing some videos on it? I will be finally be walking this coming mid May 2024. So excited 😊. Hope you have some gigantic doors opened by now
I did another Camino in April and it was great (Camino via de la plata)! I'm hoping to take a group there in October again. How was your camino??
@hidavidwen! It was awesome! We had good fun walking the 100km from Sarria to Santiago and spent another week in barcelona. I think we are still high on camino. Lol. The camino de la plata is new to me. Wow. So many routes. Nice to hear that u are doing something that u like. Have a blast in oct
I'm Dutch, and your videos really help me to appreciate my own country more. I know Dutch people who want to leave because they think it's "boring" here. I'm not sure if most Dutch people know how good we have it here, we're a people who love to whine and complain.
Thanks for the kind words and glad to hear they have given you a different perspective. I also appreciate these comments because they help me gain a new perspective/appreciation too. Take care!
At 8:18, it's good to note that UWV sets a maximum monthly salary of € 5.969. So if you're earning more than that and are laid off, your unemployment benefits will be 75% or 70% of that set maximum, not your actual salary.
Thanks for sharing this 🙏
A family member of mine was going to get laid off after 20 years of working at the company. She escalated the layoff to the UWV and she eventually won. Lawyer fees paid for by the company. And she’s still working here, to this day. I didn’t realise how good we have it here until I heard stories about the US 😅
Good for her! Yeah in the US...it's easier to hire, easier to fire.
I was laid off a few years back. And you’re right, don’t sign an agreement immediately. I got to my lawyer first, if I had not done that I would have gotten €16000 less than they actually had to pay me. Reason for being fired, my chronic disease. They played dirty, or better tried but I refused to agree with anything less than I had a right to
Wow thanks for sharing. And the power of not signing immediately. 16K is a lot of money...and I'm happy to hear you "won" (especially since they played dirty). Unfortunately, I hear many stories of people signing right away because they're scared...but hearing stories like yours is very helpful for others. Thanks!
American here. I have never been laid off but you do make me want to move to the Netherlands. Great system. Looking forward to more reports. I hope you have found work.
Hi David,
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Sending positive energy, hoping you will be able to find a new job to your liking soon.
Thanks so much 🙏 so is life…appreciate your kind words
My dad used to work at a bank in car fleet insurance and they kept trimming people in all departments and then the financial crisis hit and the bank had been too sloppy, needed help from the gov and needed to lay people off. But due to how forcefully the layoffs needed to be, the severance was massive. He got 3 months pay per year worked or something crazy like that, walked away with a bit over 6 figures, started his own company.
PS: We also have Bijstand/participatiewet which is sort of like jobseekers allowance, you will get a small amount of money while you're looking, depending on some factors which doesn't have to do with the WA. That is really quite a tiny number though, so while it works as a net to keep people off the street, it's certainly not rewarding.
There is a so called ‘maximale transitievergoeding’, which is € 94k. If your year salary exceeds this amount, the maximum ‘transitievergoeding’ will be a one year gross salary.
@@EGO0808 Quite possible that the whole reorganization at ABN Amro was the reason for installing that max? Can't say 94k is insufficient so fair enough.
Wow 3 months per year worked…glad to hear it worked in your dad’s favor and he was able to start his own company (blessing in disguise!)
I'm so sorry for you David. I hope you'll find a new job very soon.
Aw thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate it 🙏🙏
I've seen a lot of college's go, but thank god I am still in the place where I am at. 10 years now :) Great job with a lot of freedom and where people know how to act with my autism.
There's a very important thing to mention - if you're fired/laid off/whatever during your probation, which can take up to 2 month iirc, then you can be let go without any notice and even without providing a reason. It doesn't happen very ofter, but still important to know.
Thanks for sharing
This video definitely inspired me to resume my Dutch lessons!
Nice!
In Belgium minimum settlements are determined by law. Longer can be given and can be done with e.g. mass layoff. I worked at 1 company for a year, Mass layoff and I got 7 months. Next company, a year. 5 months. And both explained that if I were not with a Union, it would be best to become a member of any Union, so the Union will handle your unemployment benefits. In reality that means you get payment directly instead of trying to get it done all by yourself. In one situation it took me 9 months to get the money. Yes, you can join at any moment in your life, and unlike a gym, you can easily leave as well.
When I was in a position where I had to fire people, I told them that as well. Imagine that: the company that fires you advises you to become a Union member. No company in Belgium really cares if you are a union member (elected members is different) as all have equal rights. And you can join and leave at any moment in your career. I even had one company who paid the union fees back.
Thanks for sharing how it works in Belgium 🇧🇪 🙏
Great vid again. I am certain you will find another job you like soon!
Thanks for the kind words 🙏🙏
You should make a video comparing with Belgium: after some 20 years at my current job, severance is a bit short of 3 years, healthcare is and remains free and unemployment payment is not limited in time
Wow 3 years severance?! That sounds amazing
I knew back in the day, my dad got fired for no reason at all. But thank god he got to keep the deal for the house and also 100K from the place he worked at. Sadly both my parents were bad at money spending. So it went to waste. But I am seriously happy our jobs are safer to keep.
Wow that sounds like a nice deal..100k
In 2014 I got laid of by the Army due to budget cuts, so I started working for the UWV 😅
Thanks! The UWV were very helpful to me…I called them several times…and each time, they had great customer service.
I really appreciated it…especially because most people who call about this stuff…well they are most likely going through a hard time. Thanks! 🙏
small glitch at 2:01 idk if its easily fixable but thought I should mention it, other than that great video!
Thank you! 🙏
My wife was lucky enough to be laid off in the US (Minnesota) while she was on maternity leave and was thus able to receive unemployment for one year while raising our son. I could include both of them on family health insurance. We called it “being laid off into Sweden”. Now that son is in graduate school in the Netherlands. How are we so fortunate?
Glad to hear your family was lucky and fortunate enough. Good luck to your son and family! 🙌
David, best of luck with getting a new job!
Thanks for the support! 🙏🙏
Healthcare in NL is just not tied to your employment, it does not mean that some companies might compensate you for the premium. The biggest difference is that everyone gets to pay the same premium for the basic healthcare coverage that is already covering almost everything (discounts through employer are very minimal and you might still opt for insurance outside of employer plan as it could be cheaper). In the US insurance companies use employment as a way to get healthier people so they can offer affordable premiums. If you try get insurance without a job, the premium will be sky high. Insurance companies need to do this, because there is nothing to protect them from only the sick people getting insurance with them. That does not exist in NL because EVERYONE must be insured and is paying an affordable premium.
Thanks for sharing 🙏🙏
Everything has pros and cons. Maybe it's harder to fire someone in Netherlands, but this has a lots of cons: potentially higher taxes (processing complaints from former employees by government offices or courts costs), potentially lower salaries (companies have to include extra "cost" of firing), potentially fewer investment and job opportunities (e.g. tech companies prefer lower-tax lower employee right countries like US, China, in EU Poland or Estonia is often chosen).
And in those countries it's also pretty easy to be prepared for being fired: just save some of your salary for the rainy days, don't spend it all.
Thanks for sharing. Everything does have pros and cons
I am dutch but dont have much working eperiance as a adult there,
I worked at supermarkets and fast food, they work on a temproary contract. And after 3 they are not allowed to give you a 4th so its a permenant contract or you just stop working there.
When i finished my education i moved out since the systems that catch you are great, the culture i find is not.
I understand coming from the US how the Netherlands can be a breath of fresh air.
Good luck in your goals and i wish you all the best!
Thanks for sharing! Hope you are well wherever you are
I hope you are okay and find a nice job soon 🧡
Aw thank you 🙏🙏
Sorry to hear that! Good luck on finding your next opportunity! I am glad you mentioned that most expats/foreigners/etc. who are not European (and of course not American!), do not have the luxury of staying in the country more than 90 days to look for a job as they are basically tied to their job to be here! Of course, it is totally understandable but sometimes I feel like it does get glossed over a lot and creates misconceptions for local Dutch on how "easy" most expat s have it here
Thanks for the kind words 🙏 it’s not easy to be a “foreigner”…some people uproot their entire lives, build a new one, and then everything gets taken away…the emotional toll of that can be catastrophic
@@hidavidwen True! I really hope and believe you will find your next step soon!
Hopefully I won't need this but thank you. And hopefully you'll find a position quickly.
Thanks 🙏🙏🙏
Had exactly the same experience in the NL. Did not sign the papers, went to Rechtswinkel in Amsterdam for advice, got a lawer and got money in my bankaccount for 3 months from the company and three months from the government. I was working just one year in the company, they fired my because of financial problems within the company.
So you didnot sign and received money? Smells fishy.
@@EGO0808 Not signing the companies proposal and relied, with help of de rechtswinkel, on the general laws in the Netherlands that apply to all, both employee as well as the employer.
No signage required, nothing fishy about it. We have rights here, not benefits, we are not an American extension and the US laws do not apply here.
@@AlexK-yr2th Noone gets paid a dime, if they don't sign the agreement to terminate the contract. Of course, one could agree after negotiating with the help of any rechtswinkel (mind you, they are not lawyers or attorneys, in most cases they are in Dutch 'juridisch medewerkers', they stand no chance against experienced law firms) to get to an agreement, resulting in a financial compensation, however this needs to be signed black on white in a so called 'beeindiging arbeidsovereenkomst'. No signature means no money.
Thanks for sharing! 🙏
Correction, it depends. In Belgium if you are a public servant, it is mostly impssible to get fired. If you are an employee, you can get fired for cause without severance (must be a vallid lawful reason), or you can get dired with severance defined by law. So all depends how deep their pocket's are
Thanks for sharing
Great video! Sorry to hear you lost your job, and I hope you are able to find a new one here okay. I am currently working my first job in the Netherlands and have a 1-year contract (with opportunity to continue with mutual agreement). I sometimes get really nervous about whether I will be let go after that year. But my Dutch friends assure me that 6 months into the job I would have an idea that they wouldn't want to keep me on board AND I'm told that they have to tell me whether they will continue my contract in advance so I have some time to look for a new job.
Thanks and for the kind words 🙏 yeah I’ve seen people get permanent contracts after half a year or when the year is almost there…if you are doing well that is
Best of luck!
Nice video, thanks for sharing!
Thanks and you’re welcome 🙏🙏
I'm sorry to hear that you got laid off, David, especially around your birthday. That sucks. I also think that you're so very smart that it shouldn't take you too long to find work elsewhere. Best of luck to you.
As for me, I've been living and working in education for 24 years in the Netherlands and have gone through several issues with this, which I'll briefly share. I also want to add that after five years I was allowed Dutch citizenship, which comes with extra perks as well.
When I was young in the States I began teaching in secondary education then later moved on to the university level. But never having achieved tenure depressed me to the point that I left to teach internationally. When I moved to the Netherlands my US degrees were evaluated by Nuffik, which I believe has been since replaced by other selfsame agencies. Anyway, through them I was only granted to teach HBO, which also depressed me because I'd had my heart set on teaching at Leiden U or UvA (Amsterdam).
Regardless, because my Dutch was almost nonexistent when I first moved here I began teaching at lower levels. This inadequacy I corrected and advanced to teach at higher levels, which I'd felt I was more suited for. Regardless, I was playing the contract game, meaning that according to Dutch law you can be hired under contract for two years, but your third year the company or organisation is required by law to offer you permanent employment. In other words, fully employed individuals are harder to get rid of. 😉Thus, the contract game, which is when a company will renew your contract for two years and then won't the third year because of then having to hire you permanently. I did this with three different schools, where one would hire me for two years and not the third, but their affiliate would pick me up for their two years and so on. Finally, the last educational organisation I worked for had HR convincing me that I would finally be permanently hired my third year with them. But guess what happened? Yes, the global market crash of 2008 that affected the worldwide market.
So, I didn't get the permanent contract promised me entering my third year after all. Instead, I went through the 10,000 euro revalidation that you speak of in your podcast. However, I didn't personally receive 10,000 euros. Rather, a revalidation centre of my employer's choice did. And the worker assigned me took one look at my degrees and resume and said that, according to Dutch standards, I was suited for education and the government wouldn't be spending money on me being retrained for anything else. So, the money was pocketed and I was told to set up a solication schema. Gosh, was that advice worth 10,000 euros? 😝
Meanwhile, the government subsidised rent, insurances, etc. And I didn't go on bijstand, which another commenter suggests here, because I was married to a Dutchman who also worked. But bijstand is also possible for you, yes. And it is your right.
So, happy severance! I'd also suggest that since our European weather is now improving for late spring/early summer, go travel and/or enjoy the beach before reapplying for work again! And then you can really have a happy birthday! 🎈
Thanks so much for the kind words and the support, means a lot to me 🙏
Also for sharing your story. Gives me motivation and hope! I’ve always wanted to work more with university students…whether it is giving guest lectures here about certain topics and there or just talking to them…would I need to get another degree for that?
And yes looking forward to spring/summer!
If you haven't already done so it would be good to get your degrees accessed by a bureau that does this in the Netherlands. Since it's been awhile that I'd had mine done I couldn't tell you who does it now, but you can Google it.
You need a PhD to teach at the universities here, but don't shy away from the HBO's. They're also good to apply at for short- and long-term teaching posts. The lyceums and gymnasiums too are full of VWO students on pre-university tracks. And you could apply there to teach mini-courses in your field. You never know who's interested in you and what you have to offer until you try, right?
You forgot to mention that, in the netherlands, it can take you up to 3 years to get a contract for OBT (onbepaalde tijd).
A company can give out 3 1-year contracts before giving you one. During these first years the company can choose to not give you a renewel for whatever reason they choose.
But in this case you still get a transition package and unemployment benefits.
Thanks for sharing, true.
You can always sign an agreement before starting work.
Shocked and Embarrassed! I watched your video when it was posted but it did not 'sink-in' that you were personally impacted by a lay-off until I watched your latest video. As a fellow Californian, your channel has been a source of inspiration for me as I methodically navigate my plan to set-up a home in the Netherlands in the near future. As you navigate this unplanned situation, I hope you can find the time to reset and regroup. Will you be coming back to California for a while to spend time with friends and family while planning for the next chapter in your career?
Thanks a lot for the kind words, I really appreciate them! Yeah I got laid off this past year but hey...everything happens for a reason. That's business. And life. Getting laid off sucks...but it was quite interesting (now that I look back) going through the Dutch system. Employees have A LOT of leverage.
And I'm doing fine. Yes, I'll be visiting family and friends (and they'll be visiting me).
Where are you now in terms of setting up your "future" home?
@@hidavidwen On-track financially to make this happen as I have 10-years of experience living in the Bay Area while managing a second home (investment) on the East Coast. Doing the same while living 90% in the Netherlands is a much greater challenge.
Trying to determine if the 30% rule will truly benefit me and keep overall taxes under control. As you know, the details matter and timing is everything.
Are you still 100% committed to the Netherlands? Would you be open to living in Den Haag as I see many opportunities there?
my mom got laid off after 30 years of working at a job and she got 2 years of her salary for "free" to find a new job in those 2 years. She doesn't need to work or something. You can see it as paid vacancy days but for 2 years. (this is in Belgium, neighbor of the Netherlands)
Layoffs suck but 2 years of salary sound really nice...
A key element of a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) is that it should be mutually set up. Meaning the plan needs to contain elements/input from both the employer and employee. Often this is not the case, the employer simply generates a PIP with, typically, unobtainable milestones and KPIs (designed to get rid of the employee). This PIP will not hold up in court, thus often works to the benefit of the employee.
Thanks for sharing, yeah I read that it’s one of the hardest ways to get rid of someone if they go to court with the PIP..
Im dutch, and so far have only been laid off once. Unfortunatly, at the time I was working freelance, so I did not have regular protections. I was working "fake" freelance (only single customer, not multiple) and could have sued for benefits, but I work in a pretty good market and found a job through friends/colleagues within a month.
In other positions once I had regular employment I've not been laid off, even when the company was troubled, since it was too much effort for them to set up so they just keep you on anyway.
Thanks for sharing. Yeah freelance has its pros and cons. Good to hear you work in a good stable market 🙏
The laws we have are indeed great, but there are extreme negative effects.
You can literally work with a colleague who should be fired straight away, but if management or HR doesn't have the time for it... their employment will just continue and you will just have to live with their mistakes. And you will then have to correct their mistakes. It really stifles progress.
Getting fired without a good reason should be unlawful, but the result is a lot of freeloaders, who barely do anything, but can't get fired.
Thanks for sharing. I definitely know that side too. I’ve seen and heard from business owners and decision makers…there are always pros and cons
Totally agree with that. I was recently laid off but because I worked for an employment agency (uitzendkracht) I had no right to anything. Employment agencies are big business in the Netherlands. Where I worked, there were a lot of Polish people who were exploited by the employment agencies that hired them.
@@Dennis0824 That is not the same mate, if you are employed via an uitzendkracht, or detacheringsbureau, you should be prepared for that.
@@courageousmelon5654 I totally understand and agree. I was just making the point that many businesses in the Netherlands use the services of utzendbureaus to circumvent the employee protection laws.
It can even get worse when the employee is protected by the union (vakbond) to a ridiculous level. Primary education has such over the top protection. Out of my own experience I've seen people being hired as a teacher and right after their probation they called in sick and from that point on they never worked again.
Or a teacher who was sick because she had some disease which made it hard for her to function in cold weather.
The principal learned that she went on a 3 week vacation in Austria. So, the principal talked to HR to fire her.
Turned out he couldn't fire her because of union rules; she never stole or embezzled money, so she didn't break any rules.
Also fell victim to a restructuring in Germany. Notice periods there are more generous with 6 months after 15 years worked. Health insurance the same as in NL (actually the Dutch system was introduced during the German occupation in the 1940s. After the war the Dutch simply kept it).
One thimg one had to be cautious was the severance package. If one opts for more money instead of garden leave then unemployment benefits will not be paid during the time of the legal notice period and also reduces the months of benefit payments.
Thanks for sharing 🙏
You are very well protected in the Netherlands. Good to a certain extend but also challenging for companies. Imagine really having a bad functioning person. It is really expensive to get rid of such person. Calling in sick is often abused to prevent being kicked out.
This might result in high pressure on the rest of the team. Or imagine having a small company then these additional cost can really have big impact on an organization. You might have to hire a second person while you only have 1 FTE.
Thanks for sharing. Yes good to point out that there are cons too..I know business owners who told me that they have a toxic/poor performer but they simply cannot get rid of them and it’s hurting their business…
Best of luck with whatever you want to do now!
Thanks for the support! 🙏🙏
David- I enjoy your channel and hope you’ve landed on your feet. You enjoy life in the NL so it would be a shame to depart before you’re ready.
( an aside- I do chuckle a bit anytime someone in HR gets laid off. A bit of schadenfreude, no doubt).
Thanks for the kind words 🙏 I enjoy it here too
All the best !
Thanks!
Hey David,
Really sad to hear about your situation. Keep up the good work and you will get through this.
Although there is some benefit for people coming from the most developed countries for job in Netherlands and off course working for 5 years in a permanent job, this privilege is not available for many people. I am personally badly impacted by the complex “employer” friendly rules. I had worked in a temporary contract where i was assured for 10 months that i was performing well, until when time came for renewal of my contract after an year, I had been kicked out with only 2 months to find a new job coz my visa was tied with my employment.
There is no law to protect people in one year contract to stay and get a job with sponsor in Netherlands and its a sad reality that people in such situations have to crush their dreams and goals and leave the Netherlands. With that all the hopes of feeling the Netherlands as home also crashes badly.
David, if you ever get a time, please research and make a video to protect people who go to Netherlands with one year contract job and their contract are not renewed for some reason of the employers. I wish that noone goes through the pain that i had to face & protect many future souls having beautiful dreams in their eyes to live their lives and make it big in the Netherlands.❤
Thanks for sharing and I can understand your pain. It’s not easy to be a foreigner..to have your life taken away all of a sudden…you’re not alone. Unfortunately it’s what can happen in business :/
I hope you are well and that you’ve found peace wherever you are 🙏
Today, it can be quite a hassle to keep staff within a reasonable budget. Laying off isn't a theme, the unemployment levels are lower than published openings ... more openings per unemployed. It is a tight employment market these days.
Thanks for sharing 🙏
0:35 That bitterbal is genius 🤣 Good luck with the job hunt though. Protection against lay-off hell may seem blissful compared to the American system. Some parties, like employer unions, state employers are more reluctant to hire people if layoffs are so expensive, and it may cause foreign companies to be hesitant to open up shop in The Netherlands. I'm curious about your perspective!
Haha hey at least I can still have my bitterballen 😄
I don’t think foreign companies will stop business in NL because of the labor laws…there’s so much more to that. But from what I’ve seen in HR here, some companies decide to get leaner and reduce full-time headcount but hire more contractors, more temp workers, etc
A little extra note on unemployment benefits, there are some conditions you need to meet before you can get that money from the government. you need to have lived and worked 5 years in the netherlands and you need to be actively searching for a job. The government will stop paying you if they find out that you’re not actually searching for a job and just collecting unemployment. It’s in my opinion a great system and i still consider myself lucky for being born here. You pay your part of your salary to the government, they fund the needy ❤
I am no expert, but there is a few wrong assumptions here. I don't think its true that it is illegal in the netherlands to fire someone without good reason. However, firing someone without good reasons means the company is forced to pay. However, should an employee be fired because of good reason, the employee is NOT entitled to severance pay or anything else....
Thanks for sharing. I didn’t say it was illegal. But I do work in the HR world. There are always different reasons for firings/layoffs. Some legal. Some illegal. And if it does go to UWV/court, the company better have good reasons to do so. Valid legal reasons
Although it might not be illegal, but if there are no valid reasons to fire you, the company will have to cough up quite some money to compensate you. In the end your severance pay will be much higher than what you would have gotten if the company followed the rules. Mainly because it's a fine for being a bad employer.
Excellent video David. Very good information.
But you are not completely (or partly) right on the details. The notice period is not (always) set by the number of years but by contract or both. And a good compensation (rule of thumb when you end up in court) is you get paid a month of salary for every year you worked there, especially when you did not have a bad annual review, which gives you a good negotiation position.
In case of a reorganization, you can go much further because your lay off is a way for them to make more money or loose less and you should not carry the burden of that. And do not forget to have them pay out your days off and other gravy you have a right to, even in future (some bonus, tantième, profit share are based on the previous financial year and are basically paid a year later; you don't loose the right to those either). Even when, for example, you go on 3 months (paid) garden leave, those 3 months you have a right to the above, including all social insurances. Most people forget about these completely and agree to a final settlement that excludes these.
This might be a good time for you to move out of Amsterdam and experience the real Netherlands. I strongly suggest to orientate on the Eindhoven region where a lot of jobs on the International market are available (the region is becoming a Dutch silicone valley, without the mountains I mean) and Brabant is so, so, so much better to live in than the Randstad by far. Your costs of living will also reduce substantially.
Myself, I been laid off a few times as well and never walked away with less than 6-12 months salary, apart from the bonusses and tantièmes. Like you said, do not agree with their (first few) proposals and don't hesitate to openly discuss going to court if their proposals are not satisfactory, specially when you never received a bad (annual) review or they didn't provide any indication. The court will look at all these things but also the fact that you are a foreigner that will end up in a bad situation (and the employer is (or needs to be) aware of that). They took the responsibility of hiring a foreigner and have to accept the consequences that it will cause visa problems and/or relocation expenses of some sort. They cannot wave their responsibility by trying to be the judge and jury in their own court.
These "rules of thumb" as described above and the reason why the company decides to lay you off for are a huge consideration to the court. The company knows all this and will push you to the max but are totally aware of what a court would decide and have to cave in eventually, not risking having to pay all the legal costs and damages they (might) cause when the outcome is basically always the same in the Netherlands. Even in case you have a 1 year contract, for example, and they want to lay you off after 6 months, they have to pay out the full value of the contract, since the risk for the company is already limited to the duration of that contract that is solely a benefit to them and not to you.
Thanks for sharing 🙏🙏
@@hidavidwen I just read my reply again and I mention court a lot without explaining that in the Netherlands a company cannot just sack you but have to seek the court's permission to do so, unless the contract provides otherwise. I think my comment makes a lot more sense that way...
Anywayz, how are things?
@@AlexK-yr2th Thanks for the info! Things are good =) Took some time off in nature and ready for the summer whenever that comes. Hope you have a nice summer!
@@hidavidwen I live in Asia, it is summer all year through her at 34C.
Note: when want to finish dutch college, you're required to have an internship, lets say; if your intern employer fires you, you dont get the same help as normal work, instead you either do the schoolyear over again or you quit school.
Moral story: internship sucks, just go for a job and even if you dislike job interviews, it still is better than being exploited on the intern job.
I would say the moral of the story: Work hard, learn well and exceed expectations, makes you a winner. Who wants to be a drop out or loser?
Thanks for sharing. Oh yeah interns…another story…they also get paid like almost nothing (€4-500/month for full-time work) but do so much…
Technically I been laid off once, but that was because it was clear that the company and myself where no longer a good match as I had outgrown any jobs they could offer me. They could have been assholes about it and just shrugged and waited until I would unquestionably quit, but they wanted to offer me a nicer way out with an agreement which meant a severance pay for me, gardening leave and the ability to collect unemployment and while I didn't expect to need that part, I did end up signing all that 2 weeks before the world shut down because of covid so it saved me big time.
Beyond that I always ended up either leaving on my own during my contract or when they expired.
Wow nice, good thing you got a nice package right before Covid too…thanks for sharing
Sorry to hear you lost your job, hope you find a new one in the Netherlands ->> I would be sad to miss your TH-cam video's about this country!
Thanks for the kind words 🙏🙏 I also want to continue making videos, appreciate the support
In Belgium in case of Mass layoffs, and bankrupcy isnt the reason, so like restructuring, there is the law Clays aka "Law - Renault" ( coz renault leaving was the reason of creating this law) . The multinational i worked for closed its Belgian offices in 2006, it was my first job out of uni, but a quite well paid one. I worked there for 4,5 years, got 54K Euro.....BUT that is before tax. Yes the gvm forces the companies to be generous and then take half. 28K after tax and that is coz 10K is tax exempt. They tax the rest at 60+%. I was young and found a job immediately, so it was still a win. My manager on the other hand was 54, worked for them decades, wasnt able to find a job elsewhere coz he was too expensive. He did get several hundred thousands as severance pay.
Thanks for sharing!
about 10y ago I got fired for automating my job, which would make about 10 employees including myself obsolete. My boss told me it would be cheaper to fire me and to not implement it than to pay those 10 people their unemployment contracts. That math obviously doesn't check out but my point I guess is that there's a gray area here.
Thanks for sharing. Hm yeah doesn’t make any sense..I would think that would give you a bonus or promotion but yeah..don’t know
@@hidavidwen I guess it is because they had almost all been in the company for 20 +- years, that makes it very expensive. I was only there for half a year. My math; +- 320k a year less in costs but it might've been up to 600k in unemployment costs, idk their contracts. I dont think I needed to get fired though :')
workers council isn't something that can decide on the decisions of how and why letting people go. its more on an advise basis rather than a deciding factor.
Thanks for sharing
Good luck with finding a new job. I don't know your specialty but the job market is still going strong at the moment. Getting a company to be your sponsor could be harder. Small companies don't want to do all the paperwork. Please keep us posted. If you have a relationship with a Dutch person he/she could be your sponsor so you have more time to find a new job.
Thanks Rudie, appreciate it 🙏 Will do, I really appreciate this community and want to to continue contributing here and making videos so I’m trying!
side note on healthcare, the nation does it as a collective but it's not free. Then there are discount collectives per company, which isn't extremely common, but most larger companies have it. Everybody pays but poor people get subsidies for it.
Thanks for sharing!
If you’re laid off in NL, and you have a permanent residency card, DO NOT sign any agreement that says your layoff is upon your request. I don’t know if foreigners with a permanent residency status are entitled to unemployment benefits, but signing anything that states you requested to be laid off will make it you not qualify for unemployment at all.
If you’re for any reason that was under your control, then unemployment is off the table anyway
Thanks for sharing this. I've now heard a few stories of this happening...some people (foreigners/local) don't even know this...I mean getting laid off can be very emotional/stressful...and then try to read a legal document (with one sentence that could cost you a lot of money)...so thanks for sharing
nver laid off, just be aware there is a maximum of employnet benefit in NL. It is not 75% of your salary but that salary is maximized.
Thanks for sharing this 🙏
To compare being fired in the U.S. and the Netherlands, you'd have to address the specifics of each U.S. state. Laws vary across different states.
True thanks for sharing this 🙏
Belgium is not like this with regards to letting someone go. They send you a registered letter. To my knowledge you can't negotiate. In Ireland it is very difficult to let someone go. You have to provide every possible chance to the person and often it is very difficult to the manager and the team.
Thanks for sharing!
You can still have the American way here in the Netherlands.
Be a zzp (independent contractor). You are paid an hourly rate, and make more money. But you can be laid off easily, unlike if you're working for a company. Being sick means no pay. And no work is no uwv (unemployment benefit).
You are taking the risks. Still having the dutch healthcare.
Thanks for sharing 🙏 yeah freelance/entrepreneurship has its pros and cons but of course more risky
@@hidavidwen Do not do that, Entrepreneurship is way different in the Netherlands then other places in the world. the tax is very high, but you are a EXPAT you would say, sorry that isn't the way it works, British EXPAT had different rulings, cause they were part of the EU. US expat usually go broke when they start a business in the Netherlands paying double tax (dutch and US tax) unless you come in with a different immigration status (which most US expat never asked for or were offered).
The Freelance can work but again really study the way you came into the Netherlands and the US rulings that upholds it, so your 5 year in the Netherlands might be counted as 0 years cause of the US rulings. while technically anybody living in the Netherlands for 5 years can become a Dutch Citizen, thus all Dutch safety and security net applies to you then, cause of the US expat ruling you are not eligible for it.
Pretty much, no matter what the reason. In the US you are on your own. And I'm fine with it. Had and lost more jobs than any three people I know combined! Now on my final job before retirement.
Thanks for sharing. Easier to hire, easier to fire in the US…not for everyone but for some
Bank gave me a big bag of money, to get rid of me after 23 years (normal amount after such a long time). I would have preferred a job fit for my skills and the correct pay, but they refused both. They also paid for outplacement (because mandated by law). Very weird vibes and lots of frustration in those online meeting (due to covid). Luckily I was between jobs for only 3 weeks.
Yeah I can understand the frustration and after 23 years too…but good you got a big bag of money and found a job soon thereafter 🙌
In those online meetings, we (4-5 people per teacher) looked like a segment from the movie "Up in the air" (2009). Getting fired really is one of the most devastating events in a person's life.
You do not always get 90 days to search for a new job if you are on a visa, you will get it only if your residence permit hasn’t expired, which it does if the contract was signed for a one year for example (very typical), and the residence permit is given for the same amount of time.
So when I was losing job for example, I almost got no time to search for another one.
Thanks for sharing this 🙏
i live in the netherlands and i got layed off early this month and i've just been vibing looking for jobs it hasn't been that stresfull
Thanks and hope you take the time you need and find something eventually!
When you're laid off in the Netherlands, you're covered for 2 years of unemployment. First year, you'll be paid out 100% of your salary (not sure what the cap is, but the average income is easily covered), then after 1 year, you get another year of payment, only this year it's 70%.
Are you sure? It is 2 years indeed, first two months it is 75% of the average on last year of income, after these two months the remainder is at 70%. The cap is at 45K on a year income.
@@EGO0808 Woops, I'm all wrong, you're correct. What I'm thinking of is sick leave, that's when these financial rules apply. Please forget what I wrote, I twisted 2 things up.
Thanks for contributing and also saw your correction. Yep sick leave…another topic to explore!
It's 75% for 2 months then 70% for upto 2 years depending on how many years you've worked. There's also a max amount of €45000 per year.
Got laid of for 'under performance'. The route they took was:
They: 'You are under performing.'
Me: 'OK, how do I improve?'
They: 'You need to feel it... and you can always ask us for help!'.
Me: 'Okay... So, can you help me? (No) Is that feedback system already up and running? (No) Do you have time to sit with me? (No) etc.'
They: 'You are fired, you didn't improve and your could see this coming!'
My lawyer: 'This severance package proves they have no proof and no documentation and they just want to get rid of you. Considering the amount, you're best off to accept it. But Employers... she's not going to work for the last 2 months, but will keep on having her pay.'
Because of my lawyer and the amount of time I got, I was technically unemployed for 2 days. UWV was a bit annoying for a lot longer, demanding I found a second job for 4 hours a week...
Thanks for sharing. Getting laid off is never easy. I hope you were able to recover from it
@@hidavidwen it left deep scars. The result of feeling betrayed is still noticeable 10 years later. But I have a good boss now.
Dutchie here
Usa more competitive, netherlands overall higher standard living.. but this is also a downside for the economy itself.. less innovation and investments.. so more conctraction.. you can say about china what you want..
Avarage salary in usd
Usa 5k
China 4,2k
Netherlands 3,2k
But living in usa city big city/ capital is like
USA expensive so high pay needed
NL maybe 60-70% of usa
China 50% compared to NL
So Purchasing parity is so much higher there.. a lot more to invest per person.. even more avarage to Americans
If you dollar cost avarage the chinese currency as an European since 1992 you would be soooooo much richer.....
Thanks for sharing all of this
Do you have to leave the Netherlands when you get your benefits from the UWV and your visa is not sponsered? Because that's a payment from insurance and therefore still an income. After the period of your UWV unemployment-benefits ends people have to go to the city for a welfare income (Bijstand/Participatieuitkering). That's an income directly payed out of taxes and this can be refused to foreigners (depending on your situation).
That depends on what kind of "visum" you have. Some will get you kicked out of the country if you ask voor welfare. The wellfare people are by law required to send a signale to the right autoritis if you do that whith that kind of visa. I had to do it couple of times when i worked in that field.
@@arturobianco848 unemployment benefit isn’t considered or defined as welfare.
Thanks, I am not entirely sure as I haven’t experienced that but maybe someone else can answer?
I did call UWV who said you can still get unemployment benefits as long as you have any valid visa (whether it’s company sponsored or entrepreneur)
Thanks for sharing your experience of living in Dutch. I was wonder is speaking the local language required to work and study in Dutch? How did learn to speak Dutch?
Thanks! Learning the language of course helps. It depends on what you do. For many multinational companies, the main language is English in the workplace. But if you want to teach or something that requires interaction with Dutch customers/clients, of course the language is required.
I only had 2 jobs. 1 was part time, I quite on my own. The other one is full time which i have been doing for 15 years now.
I never got fired from a job.
Thanks, I hope you never do =)
If you’re in a union, you can get legal representation trough the union. They did a lot for me when i was fired. And because i’m still a member they will represent me in the future if i need it.
Thanks for sharing this, nice to have the help of a union 🙏
What about if you're on a temporary/fixed contract though? Then in that case they don't need to do all this right?
I've worked in the USA and the Netherlands. Being laid off in NL is a better experience than being employed in most American jobs. Both times I was laid off in NL I got over $20k plus kept the laptop, company phone etc.
Thanks for sharing…oh wow 20k PLUS…🙌🙌
Very interesting video in South Africa as soon as you get a job say a month later and still trying to get your UFI money from the government you lose it. They will not give you the money for that as you now have a job. So if you are without a job for a month and the UIF process is so long and hard to get help it will take longer than you have time to do it.
Thanks for sharing how it works in South Africa 🙏
Very similar story as what happend to my foreign girlfriend. Was suddenly scheduled for an appointment, no info on what it was about. I warned her in advance she may get laid off, and told her not to sign anything and not get involved in a discussion. Just listen. She was indeed laid off and pressured to sign severance immediately. "because that was better for her". Fortunately she remembered what I told her. Given she was very emotional about it and didn't work at that company very long yet, and didn't want to go the legal route, she eventually took the deal. Later she got critiqued by the UWV that the company didn't update the dates in the settlement properly. Anyway, she had a new better job in no time at all. Just be warned. Get proper legal aid in this event. You have a stronger position then you think.
My father could prove his boss let him go unlawfully and he won, they had to pay him 60k. I have also gone through the process but they handled it in a very nasty way so that sucked. I could have gotten more out of it but the social contacts were completely damaged beyond repair. Learned a lot about the process and my rights though. And I might not have gotten much (3k I believe), I took the boss his daughter with me (who was supposed to take over the company) because she didn't like how it was handled. She hasn't returned since, it's been 10 yrs ago. Oh and another guy who was really good at coding and was definitely underpaid - he found a job that paid him double soon after - I consider it a win.
Thanks for sharing.
Yeah I’ve heard of some nasty stories unfortunately :/
Though it’s nice to know the rights/processes..it can be quite complicated. And negotiations are always a game..hopefully it’s a compassionate one especially if employee was a good one but yes I’ve heard of nasty games :/
David, don't know what kind of finance you do but, heard ASML was looking for some financial people. Not my line of work but grapevines work in mysterious ways.
Thanks for the kind words! Doing some (life) reflection somewhere in nature at the moment to think about next steps