CULTURE SHOCKS working in the Netherlands as an American!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ค. 2024
- In this video, I share a little bit about my experiences working in a Dutch environment as an American. The United States and the Netherlands are quite different when it comes to the work culture, and I share the things that I had to get used when I moved to the Netherlands and first started working here.
Many of you are aware of my love for coffee and have asked to buy me a coffee over the years, so here's a link: buymeacoffee.com/dutchamericano
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I like to share my experiences of an American expat in the Netherlands. I describe both the unique and everyday aspects of Dutch culture, and life in Holland while enjoying every bit of it!
Blog website: www.dutchamericano.com
Instagram: DutchAmericano
Get in touch: dutchamericanonl@gmail.com
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People in the Netherlands take lunch brakes. That they don't do it at your place is pretty exceptional. A 30 minute lunch brake is even mandatory according to the Arbeidstijdenwet (the law that covers work hours).
I agree. Though I will say if I work half days I generally don't take my lunch at 12 but wait until after two when my job is gone
But only mandatory from 5,5 hours shift upwards. So when you just work a 3 to 4 hours shift then the lunch is not mandatory.
b r e a k is the right spelling. eat it when you need it
@@gabchaim8232 You're right, of course! I wouldn't want to eat brakes for lunch 😂
@@mhjmstultiens don't forget that in the same law it says you have the right of a 15 minute break after 2hours and 15 minutes or 2,5 hours.
For the ones reading this after listening to Ava.. Ava is listing a lot of things but that is not reality for all jobs. Yes part time work is common in the Netherlands in young families with kids. Child care is limited and expensive so usually nowadays both parents work a shorter week. And yes that means not a top salary. But parenting actively your kids is more appreciated. If you move to a higher level in a company people work usually longer than 40 hours. And then absolutely no one is looking at the clock to stop at five. Another aspect is that working contracts can state the number of hours in a working week but again in a management position no one is counting hours including evenings and weekends. And yes I stay at home when sick but I still will work to relief the pressure on collegues. If you think Dutch people are lazy... Think again!
PREACH!!
about being sick … when you’re sick and still go to work, you could make your colleagues sick and the company may “suffer” because of that. So it’s better for your job if you stay home till you’re totally recovered.
Dit is vooral na corona.
Voor corona was het niet zo. Je ging gewoon door en geen gejankt.
Good point
Absolutely, our manager gets really pissed off if you come to work when you're sick, and rightly so in my opinion. It's quite rude to put your coworkers at risk.
@@charlesmolen5482, ik weet niet wáár je gewerkt hebt, maar dit is kletskoek.
@@charlesmolen5482 Voor Corona was het nog steeds waar dat het beter is om je collega's niet aan te steken. Het zat alleen nog niet in onze cultuur (en thuiswerken was toen niet echt een optie).
In Norway your workplace cannot contact you after working hours - intrude on your privacy - unless there is some emergency
I began with a 40 hour workweek, then after a couple of years I decided I needed more free time, so I went to a 36 hour workweek (I wasn’t the only one - some chose to work 9 hours per day, so they had a day off every week). And then I went to a 32 hour workweek. Feels like a nice balance between working and living. 😊
Sometimes 0,8 fte is fulltime; and not profitable. One has to be disciplined in not working.
Having worked for an American company for about 10 years and lived in Long Beach, CA for about 4 months my experience was that my American coworkers didn’t work very hard at all; they made long office hours but they worked with less focus and weren’t very productive during that time; lunch breaks lasting over one hour and a half were the norm.
I have the same experience with Americans.
I guess "The office" TV show really reflects American workstyle
As a Dutch person having trained Americans in an American company 1 of the things that comes to mind is their "meeting culture" people tend to go to meetings where there is no added value whatsoever. Managers taking assisstants to meetings, just to show they r manager. etc.
We cut costs, just by cutting meeting attendance. As a bonus I made my years goal in 3 months time by bringing some Dutch culture to Maryland.
@@HerrVen Fantastic
Ever heard the phrase: you work to live, you don't live to work. And don't forget to have the potatoes ready by 5.30 pm.
Irish roots, huh?
@@tenglish2356 nope. Dutch
I would rather have my potatoes ready at 6pm 😅
@@jandirkvanleeuwen kan ook
Dig deep. The Irish did. @@only1dutchgirl
40 hour a week Dutch office worker here. I have lunch away from the keyboard. And I've always done that. I need my downtime.
Agreed. That's more wholesome / healthy.
I can't imagine working 8 hours straight. Even a small lunch break really helps my productivity in the afternoon
I agree. There is a reason why 30 minute lunch breaks (after X hours of work) are mandatory. People "eating at their desk" just to be able to leave half an hour earlier are frauds.
@@matthijsclaessen8152 Not more healthy but less unhealthy.
When it comes to directness, there's indeed a cultural difference. I remember reading an example once of a Dutch person going to either the UK or the States (can't remember which one, but both have the same "evasiveness"). He submitted a draft for something and as feedback he got a "I like it, but I'm not sure about these things". While that's code for "well, this is completely wrong" he just went with "they like it, so it's fine", because, you know, honesty, and then was genuinly surprised when it got refused.
Here in Belgium (and the Netherlands), when someone criticizes your work, it's just your work, not you as a person, while in the States, it seems the moment you say something bad about their work, it's like you kicked their puppy after you ran it over with your car.
very true
Only been at my job for 3 months. My boss constantly critisizes my WORK. And I'm thankful for that. We have a discussion about it. I learn something, and do it better.
I'm not continuing to work there actually because I'm not critisized enough on my work. (I'm not learning my job fast enough because everyone is too busy to actually teach me.)
There has been research done with the outcome that the less hours you work those hours are almost all productive. So paying as a boss for 6 hours where the productivity is 5 hours where as you pay for 9 hours the productivity will be 5,5 hours, something like that. So it makes sense to reduce working hours, they are smart, those companies.
Yes I really would like to see a productivity compare between those 2 culture's.. I think there could be a surprise.. just making hours to make hours is ridiculous
Depends on the kind of work you do. Some jobs require your undivided attention for the whole duration of the working day, so you'll be productive 100% of the time. Healthcare for example.
Heyy Ava,
I'm dutch recently started a job at an international team (40 hours a week). I love the different cultures and we do have 2 coffee breaks and one lunch break. But everyone is way less social than at all the dutch companies I worked parttime before.
Oh, one of the reasons females work less hours here because they are needed to take care of the children, because its cheaper to take a day off than daycare 😉
loving your video, and fresh perspective on things!
A 30 minute lunch break is actually mandatory for working days over 6 hours long. I think some people just keep working, so they can leave at 5 instead of 5:30.
There is a difference in work culture between government jobs, like at a University, and corporate jobs in The Netherlands, when it comes to working hours.
I also think the university seems like a place with reduced work pressure to me. I don't think it has to do with government vs corporate jobs though. Many people in local governments are very busy due to the amount of work that is shifted from the national government towards them.
Email after 16.30 are for tomorrow. Change my mind
Email after 15.00 is for tomorrow.
Just mail your boss at 23.30 just before bed and call him first thing in the morning to ask if he already has read it.
Excellent idea! What I do is that before I go to sleep, I log into teams from the company phone and that way boss can see that I'm working even at night... :D
Pretty much, after 16:30 are for tomorrow, unless it is really urgent. Email after 15.00 on Friday is for next week unless it is really urgent urgent.
@@Scenario8 Bullshit
Night owl reporting :P I tend to start later than most of my colleagues, however I also stay on later while they check out around 4-5 in the afternoon.
Bonus is the drive to and from the office is once the rush hour is done, which means I don't lose as much time in transit.
Why do you prefer to drive instead of taking transit? Or is there also some sort of traffic on the transit? I’m curious because I’m American haha
@@ralphtyrell6439 Could be either, actually.
Depends on whether I need to go somewhere after work, otherwise public transport is about as fast/slow as taking the car.
In rush hour however, it can nearly double the time the trip takes.
Same here, start late and end late. And I drive too. Just more flexible.
I moved to France 20+ years ago. I worked in an international environment with people from all over Europe. Each country has so much to offer, but all came from countries that have rules to protect workers. This approach to a shared way, encourages managers to have respect for the Colleague's
they work with. All are insured with healthcare, each country has a different approach, but one never have to worry that sickness will put them in bankruptcy. Should life be difficult, there is a helping hand, additional training for a better position, education for your children, child care, work balance, sharing the benefits of an economy realizing more than just the investment class should benefit from a nations economy. If I knew what i know today, I would be out on the streets demanding the USA politicians put the people above the corporate class.
Good point. In reality, the US is the odd one out, calling social welfare a thing of the far right and, for the sake of the 1%, call socialism even communism or a totally controlling government but at the same time, on religious basis, decide for you what you are able to do with your life or even your own body while not able to provide basic healthcare, housing and minimum wages. Free speech and land of the free, my ass... it's merely a rat race, providing guns to everyone so you have the perception one has their life in their own hands. Sad really...
And that's why nothing will ever change, because once people are in a different places, they don't give a fuck about the place they came from. 😅
@@janzelf Such nonsense....
It is absolutly ridiculous that people are in charge of government but not in charge of their own working conditions in the USA. I totally agree with you about being out on the streets when this would be the case here. It is just mindboggling how the idea on 'what' a democracy is or what you're supposed to allow in a democracy is governed by greedy company norms/mindset that has engrained itself in what is normal in society.
When you get people to frown upon other people that adhere to contract hours and talk about their back about being lazy, then as a company, you know you've won the social enginering prize and you have become the system.
@@deadlyduck001 Hear, hear...
Im Dutch and i work in a office now and before in a bakery. You are describing a OFFICE week. People who work with their hands at gardens or construction areas make 40 to 50 hours. Its not really realistic what you are saying. Its your personal experience in the city area.
Completely agree! I was working in hospitals. The only ones having the described work weeks were the "clerks". All the rest (nurses, laboratory personal, cleaners and MD's) worked much longer: work weeks varying from 40 to 50 up to 60 hours per week and mostly also during weekends.
What she says is not true for office workers either...me and my husband work for 12 to 14 hrs a day and sometimes on weekends too and we dont have as many vacation days as she says and neither do we have sick days.
@@sarikach988 I hope you're lying as everything you mentioned is illegal in the Netherlands. 25 vacation days are a minimum by law, sick days are allowed by law and overtime is both compensated and limited. You should report this to your union, works council or labour inspectorate
@@pijuskri Unfortunately I cannot because that's the kind of contract I have with my company..since it's a temporary contract everything I said is possible and legal...everything you say is for permanent employees, such employees can report. That is why most companies give temporary contracts and dont make employees permanent very easily. I swear I most definitely did not have 25 vacay days. SInce I'm an expat I did not even know what the law was before signing. And when I called in sick my HR told me to to take medicine and come anyways. My husband is constantly overworking and never compensated for the extra hours and neither have I been..He has so many leaves accumulated he can take a year off.
@@sarikach988 Sorry but that's simply not true. Contact a lawyer, or go to a "Rechtswinkel". A contract is _NEVER_ able to take away your legal rights as an employee. Regardless of what anyone has told you. You are, by law, not allowed to work more than 12 hours per day, 60 hours per week, and 48 hours per week on average over 16 weeks. These are absolute legal maximums, unless you have some specific jobs like aid workers in crises, or military personal during deployments. If you have "Ploegendienst" e.g. shift work where you have to work evening and night shifts, these legal maximum workable hours are even lower.
And, employees that do still force their workers longer hours, have before, been given prison sentences.
about work here in the netherlands, it is more about quality than quantity. less hours but in those hours you do work pretty hard, in terms of sick days, people would rather have you be healthy and work well feeling good, than be sick and doing the bare minimum
Agreed. And you should have a desk by the door. So that you can get the hell out of there at 17:00. (The Netherlands is still on army time).
@@tenglish2356 still lmao, it is standard here, am and pm do get used aswell tho but more online than irl here
@@tenglish2356 If you feel like that, you are doing the wrong job. I'm a trucker, working 50hrs a week but it doesn't feel like work at all. It's my hobby, what I LIKE to do. Don't chase money over passion. Succes is being able to pay the bills with something you like to do.
Uhh, that was tongue in cheek (barrowed from I believe SNL). There is an incredible variation between bedrijfstakken and the jobs/careers themselves, qua how an employee relates to their work and 'werkgever'. Whatever.
We have an American colleague and it took time for her to get used to the idea of long holidays and part-time work too. Hugs from Almere 🏡 🤗
You could offer her to do a part of your job too so she could get used to a bit slower.....
@@lienbijs1205 In The Netherlands, colleague take over each others jobs when needed constantly. It is part of the daily routine and Dutch work culture so things get done on a daily basis and do not have to wait for someone to return to work with all the fear of being sick or taking days off as a result. That is an essential difference between the Dutch and American way how things are done. Here, the liability is with the group, the team, the department and not with the individual or manager and people are not afraid to take off work because they know their job will continue and not be stacked up when they return with all the consequences that come with that. The manager is there more for coordination rather than responsibility.
@AlexK-yr2th thank you for explaining this, we also observe it and feel the same in our companies.
@@lienbijs1205 :) she also has a side job
hm... expatfamilylive... choosing a name like that implicates that you have no intention to integrate
I'm a Swedish citizen, I work from 07:00 - 16:00. And we get 4 weeks of paid vacation that you have to take out, if you don't take it the company will send you home with pay for 4 weeks near the end of the fiscal year. I am Dutch, by the way, and when I was working in the Netherlands, people definitely demanded you go in to work on Friday. I guess what you mentioned only applies to office jobs and not production/grunt jobs.
Ik denk dat ze bedoeld dat mensen die kunnen thuis werken (kantoorjobs dus) op vrijdag het liefste thuis werken. Het is inderdaad sinds de pandemie zo dat thuiswerken op ma-woe-vrij hier veel normaler is geworden en dat iedereen naar kantoor gaat op dinsdag en donderdag, met het gevolg dat op die 2 dagen er veel meer files staan en het openbaar vervoer zowat in de soep loopt door de drukte. Je merkt dat het zeker op maandag en vrijdag veel rustiger is op de weg en in de trein.
Ze verwijst naar de universiteit waar ze werkt, dat is zoals werken aan de staat en niet echt te vergelijken met de privé sector
About not making friends at work: I've never felt like that. I truly made great friends over the years and often have a beer after work.
Just wait when you get sick during your vacation days... It will blow your mind that, sickness during your days off will refund the days off and these days will be treated as if you were sick during a working day.
You have to notify your company ofcourse.
There is a rule for sick days though, most companies don't pay the first day of sickness, so that will cost a vacation day. This makes it so that most employees take at least 2 days off. Companies are coming back from this rule nowadays, paying any sick day.
We also don't have to use time for appointments most of the time.
Some companies (not all) allow you to go to doctor and dentist appointments during work hours.
I have Mondays off and it’s glorious. It makes the weekend so much better.
Oh, and become a journalist and you’ll make friends at work. :)
Heel grappig hoe jij dit ervaart, als je in een kleiner bedrijf gaat werken zal je dit heel anders beleven. Kinderen tot 12 jaar hebben op woensdag vanaf 12 uur vrij inderdaad. Veel mensen plannen hier hun vrije dag. Anders moet het kind naar de opvang en dat is soms duurder dan 4 uur minder werken. En maar zelden werken beide ouders 40 uur dus meestal is dit wel te regelen. Worden de kinderen ouder dan zijn de ouders gewend aan deze vrije dag en houden ze dit gewoon aan. Op vrijdag kan je lekker je weekend boodschappen doen en gezellig het weekend in gaan. Naar mijn ervaring werken de meesten wel op maandag. En als de werktijd om is gaan we graag gelijk naar huis, met heel het gezin gezamenlijk avondeten vinden wij belangrijk.
expats die 3 jaar in NL zijn en denken het allemaal te weten en nog erger, commentaar hebben. wordt tijd dat ze die 30% regeling eens goed aanpakken (afschaffen).
@@hanshomesteading1276 Jaloers???
@@jandirkvanleeuwen nee waarom zou ik
Niet alle basisscholen hebben woesdag vrij vanaf 12 uur, maar hebben een zogenaamd continu rooster van 08:15-14:15 en dit 5 dagen in de week. Steeds meer basischolen hebben dit.
Hier hebben kinderen een continu rooster. Iedere dag dezelfde eindtijd.
08:15 tot 14:00
Dutchie here! I think a few things really differ per branche. For example, yes, in general people don't expect you to answer emails off the clock, and yes you won't receive as many emails. But I have definitely sent emails at midnight and received a response at 1 am (working as a political assistant). And at universities, the professors and researcher do so much in evenings and weekends (such as conferences, lectures and meetings), and tend to work ovetime quite a bit, with 50+ work weeks being quite normal. I've been asked to do something 'tomorrow' on Friday-evening while being overworked (which was known). Also, I've definitely made friends (and relationships ;)) at work and I don't think that's an exception at all, though it very well could be less frequent than the US. And for example working in the restaurant business, you can work 12 h shifts with barely any breaks. When I worked at a call center, people did tend to leave quite strictly at the the endtime of their shift, but you're also expected to be very precise with everything, from the amount of minutes you take for your breaks to how long you spend on going to the bathroom, it's all monitored. And you need to be in at least 15 mins before your shift starts. And if you have a call at the end of your shift, you obviously finish it even if it takes an extra 30 mins. Not to mention fields like medicine (hospital staff, doctors) with very long hours and journalism which can be pretty round the clock, and you leave when you've finished your work and met your deadlines, not when 'it's time'. As for being sick: dutch also have been know for a 'don't complain, take an aspirin and suck it up attitude'. So while of course the whole sick day things is absent and as an employee you don't have to think about having enough days, there was definitely the culture of: you don't call in sick with a bad cold, only when you really physically cannot work. I've seen people at work with severe pain or fevers. I think covid changed that quite a lot, as it made people aware you can infect the whole office when you come in sick. Also, people leaving the office doesn't equal no work, there's many fields where people continue working at home.
I agree with NietzzTube mostly. It really depends where you work how the workculture is. I've had jobs where 60 or more hours a week were no exception and jobs where 36 hours or less are more common. During one of the jobs with lots of hours I even received an email at 1:30 am for a call at 2:00 am and had that meeting at 2 am. I've met my wife at work and have had several friends from work. Also the lunch culture differs. I've had jobs where we all (the whole team) had a lunch and sometimes a lunchwalk together and jobs where the meetings went on during lunchhours. I agree that the hierarchy in the Netherlands is less visable and all people value each others opinion. That's because the Dutch like to oversee the consequenses before coming to a decision. I think that's a culture thing coming from the past because we always had and have to fight against the water so a wrong decision has great consequenses. Otherwise I'm glad we don't have sick days. Having a sick person at work will help nobody.
I’ll just remember these are your personal experiences, mine were really different. We certainly always took lunchbreaks
That’s good to hear!
had my senseo at my desk eat and drink at the spot💪💪
I think lunch breaks are typical. But not longer than 30 minutes. And there are basically 3 options, you eat lunch at the canteen, you have homemade sandwiches behind you desk, or you go out for a walk and eat homemade sandwiches while walking from a plastic bag.
@@oviefWell, in that case I've got a shocker for you. I eat my home made sandwiches in the canteen 😂
@@willemh3319 yes we had the coffeemakers and tosti-makers, fridge etc coming in to every office now they are gone by policy
yes some meetings are like battles lol but at the end everything is cleared up and we can go on, no hard feelings !
I start at 7 so im off early. But I always take time for my lunch. At home with my partner and at work with my colleagues. We often go for a stroll during our lunch. After work, I work out, play board games, do some gardning (summer time), watching a movie .... a lot of things to do 😊
We are always in the top 5 in the world happiness report. So enjoy your stay here!
the dutch are not happy, they don't have feelings, so they can't be happy :D Also just to talk about the facts, the reason why the dutch are happy because of CENTURIES OF CALVINISM..... so the minimalist mindset is burned into the nation's core..... if you don't need much, being happy is way more easier ;)
The discrepancy between male and female working hours is really simple. A lot of women work part time only. This is in large part due to them taking care of the kids. I guess people who see this as a problem that they want to "solve" are hoping that mothers start working fulltime as well. I can imagine big business likes that idea.
exactly, if every person starts to work 40 hours a week, people have more money. and that means that businesses can raise prices, because we have the money to pay those higher prices.
society should go to a system where single person/worker households can pay for everything in live.
the more everyone starts working the higher prices will get. and people that can't/won't work that much will become poorer and poorer.
Yup in this case the Netherlands is pretty traditionale. But its not the wrong kind of traditionale kids need parents and parents at home. Nowadays you see fthers working shorter as well but biology made mothers for a reason. Not trying to be sexist and yes i'm a male but if my wife would make more then me i would be the one that would work shorter hours and take care of the kids more. ( for those who start yelling now the kid died and we didn't cope to well and divorced. She now is remarriged to a friend of mine and i was the best man and shes got 2 lovely children who i adore. And no i didn't get remaried and love being single i might simp a bit on the kids but not on the ex).
Not necessarily. They could also expect men to stop delegating taking care of the kids to women and share the load. If both men and women work less then full time or men start taking care of kids and women working full time there would be less of difference.
I would like to fix this too; by having the men take care of the kids too :)
@@usmub I think the important thing is that people can decide that for themselves, and they can. There are couples where the woman works most and the man does most of the kids stuff. On average it's more women taking care of the kids, but why does that matter? If you give people the freedom to decide that for themselves you don't get equal outcomes on a population level, because on average men and women are different. Many people have gone a bit overboard with the idea of equality. Equal rights does not mean equal outcomes. There will probably always be more stay at home moms than dads, just like there will always be more women choosing to become a nurse, and more men in construction.
Being an engineer the office work culture sounds totally alien to me. I work full time, I totally hate meetings (they make me feel wasting my time). When I call in sick, there’s panic right away because my coworkers need to do my work aside. But we do take an hour for lunch. I don’t have extra vacation days and the end of the year I always have days left because the amount of work didn’t allow me to use them. But office work would drive me nuts pretty fast so I don’t complain.
Agreed, it really depends on your type of job. I work as a chemist. 38.5 hour work week often working a couple of extra hours a week . When one person is sick or an analysis failed and needs to be redone, everyone is thinking ......Aw man now we have to work late to get everything done. I still have so many vacation days left over from last year and I need to use them soon, and I fully intend to. Especially since we are finally getting two new co-workers so we should finally not be understaffed anymore.
Meetings are the bane of my existence. Some of my work (the really time consuming sample preparations) takes a full workday to prepare and execute, I have no time for meetings and frivolous talk on those days. Not a single minute can be spared.
I agree too...both me and y husband work in IT and engineering...tech jobs don't really see the ideal 30 hr work week like she's explaining..she's romanticizing everything a little too much..we dont have extra vacation days..heck we dont even have sick days..my HR tells me to take some medicine and come to work anyways even when i call in sick..and many other friends of mine who are in IT have similar situations..my husband has so many leaves left he could take a whole year off but he never gets time or is allowed to do so.
@@ScarletcroftBe aware that there is and unendless amount of work to do in this world.
@@sarikach988 It sound like both you and your husband should start looking for a different job....sick days do not exist here in the NL. If you have a contract or better a fixed contract job (permanent) you call in sick and you are sick, company pays you wages normally for at least the first three months, but usually calling in sick is for a week or so. Your HR sound like a really bad one, again look for a new job because this sounds not Dutch at all.
@@petervedder4848 Hmm look for a job in this economy? we've been trying but it's not looking good..in fact worse for expats like us who don't speak dutch.
I worked in Amsterdam at a dutch research collaboration with Belgium.
The culture between the 2 countries - separated by a mere 200 km, and speaking the same language (yet a slightly different accent ) was striking...
On a serious note though: you work at a university, which means you are like a civil servant. Dutch Universities are funded by the government by a large part, yet still retain a lot of independence. What they do share with goverment jobs though is the very lenient work culture, which is an exaggeration of what you see elsewhere in the Netherlands. There are also other reasons why you would flourish in this environment, but it might be a bit too early in our historic development to tell you exactly what. Enjoy what you have for now :)
Very nice to see that you are having a good time in the most beautiful country in the world.
Wishing you lots of happiness and fun.
It was nice to see you so enthusiastic
Honestly Ava, you crack me up! 😂 I’m very Dutch, I lived in other EU countries quite a bit but I love the mirror you give me on our Dutch culture. So many things “we” do differently, like the seats on the train or the work culture. I work for an American company and your views help me again in understanding why my coworkers respond in a particular manner to things I say or do and find totally normal. Keep it up! Have you passed your drivers license test yet? Maybe you can vlog on that experience too; driving through Dutch traffic 😁
I worked for a Dutch company for nearly 15 years, and my experience is vastly different.
About lunch: everywhere I worked (5 employers of 25+ years) it was normal to have lunch in the lunchroom, at desk is often a minority. There's often a few that also do a small walk.
Eating my lunch at the desk is not even allowed at my place of work. But we are working with some rather expensive systems and we don't need to have bread crumps and what not in them.
Everything about this sounds perfect. I cannot wait to get to The Netherlands!
Please bring your own house, we have an acute shortage of those.
Experiences may vary of course
Also be prepared to travel out of the country often to buy basic things like groceries, clothes etc. because everything is cheaper in the neighbouring countries..for example, a bottle of nivea sunscreen lotion costs 35 euros here while it costs only 5 to 10 euros just a little outside of the border of this country. Many of my colleauges and friends travel to belgium, france, and germany via cheap transport services like flixbus to buy groceries and other household items, toileteries, clothes etc.
@@sarikach988 probably a local thing because I don't know anybody who does this regularly
@@SamyasaSwi No not everyday..but they go once a month or so and buy groceries etc. in bulk to last for a while..it's a true story...not everyone can afford the high inflated prices in here anymore...i'm from amsterdam and so are the people i'm talking about..where are you from? how's the situation where you live?
I recognize so much of what you mentioned, it's hilarious and so accurate. You'll understand that all this very much depends on the branch you're working in. Hope you enjoy your time here!
Wow! I really enjoyed it. Thank You for sharing. And am also a new subscriber 😊 👋
Hi. Geweldig kanaal heb je. Over de werkcultuur… vergis je niet in het verschil tussen overheid en semioverheid enerzijds en commerciële bedrijven anderzijds. (Semi)overheid staat ook in nl bekend zoals jij beschrijft. Bij commerciële bedrijven gaat het er echt anders toe. Niet zoals in Amerika maar wel meer die kant op.
The lunch break thing isn't true. Most Dutch people absolutely DO take lunch breaks.
Yeah, people need to forget that their experience is not THE experience necessarily. I just keep that fact in the back of my mind with these videos.
In Belgium how you take your lunch breaks depends from work place to work place. I've had jobs where I eat alone at my desk but also where I eat together with co-workers. One job I had was a few minutes walk from the city center of Brugge (Bruges) and I would regularly go either eat my lunch in a little park nearby with a book or go with co-workers to a nearby café with an outside terrace (we'd eat our sandwiches on the walk there).
Hours worked are just hours paid by the employer. Look at productivity - what gets done - in those hours. The danger is though that we don't have enough time to recuperate from the weekend with these short working weeks.
Happy easter, kitty kat!🪺
But no chocolate eggs for you!
No disrespect but it is probably the bubble you live in.
For me (and undoubtedly that still goes for many people in the Netherlands) a 45 hour work week was normal and yet also quite unique because we would work saterdays as well and thus never only worked 45 hours a week.
People actually doing physiscal work, not sitting behind a desk but getting their hands dirty from early norning till late in the evening.
Building, transport, roadworkers, mechanics, cleaners, docters and surgeons.
This is a bit of a worrisome thing because the bubble is quite large: commercial functions at slightly larger companies, finance, ict, universities, gevernement. The bubble is so huge that you might say the others are in a bubble, and what comes out of the statistics is indeed true for most. And it is worrisome because we are getting double work standards this way, it is hard to find personnel for health care but part of the reason might be that the health care professions follow the long work hours ethics which will have even more people not opting for health care.
From 1988 till 2002, I worked 4 x 9 hour weeks, so this is not something of the last couple of years.
So 36 hour work week, in 4 days, that leaves 1 day of the week that you are off.
That day progressed by 1 day per week.
This weeks day off is Tuesday, next week it will be Wednesday, the week after that Thursday.
And then the fun starts, cause the next week, you'll have the Friday off and the week after that, the Monday.
Yes long weekend of 4 days, woohoo :)
What you could do, when for example having a dentist appointment on Tuesday, you could trade your day off with a co-worker who had his day off on Tuesday.
That led to people not taking their vacation hours, cause no need right.
Then another thing popped up, every 8 hours of overtime, could be converted to 9 hours free time.
Long story short, somewhere in 1998 in October, HR said that I had too many vacation hours and I could only take 3 days to the next year.
Ehm......... but I had something like 3 months in free time, haha..
And it was busy at work, no way I could get leave from work : "Pay it out", reply : "Too expensive"
'Well, you ain't going to take it from me, cause I'll call the union if you do. Up-to you, either I take all the free time and just disappear for the coming 3 months or you pay it out or I take it with me to next year.'
The solution came in parts, half was paid out before taxes but onto a saving account (spaar-regeling) where it stayed for 7 years.
I got 2 weeks off around Christmas and I bought a new bicycle (mountainbike) where the bill went to my employer.
All was fine and I was happy.
Great video, thanks for pointing this all out. As for Dutch directness, I would advise my fellow Dutchies to balance it out and choose your battles. Your opinion is not always the only truth that should fill up a space. It's ok to be nice. I got scolded recently for being positive about the world, something I picked up in the States...
Because we are honest and direct at work we do not waste not only our own time but also the time of each other. So we can do the same amount of work in our working day as people who keep things to them self and guessing what their colega’s realy mean or need in their much longer “working” time.
Thanks for sharing this.
My work is very different. But I am a secondary school teacher in The Netherlands. I work 0,76fte, which is 32 hours a week. But of course I need to be at work for four days. Also I do have friends at work and we do hang out outside of school. And also the emails never stop, outside of the summer break. I do get a lot of days off though.
Great video ! Nice to see an outside view of our working environment. I think your co workers not taking a lunch break is pretty unique because I have never seen that in 30 years of working. And I think Dutch people work quite hard and focused. From what I heard about countries where people make more hours they are not working hard. So in the end of the day both may have done the same amount of work or we even did more and delivered higher quality work.
We do take lunch breaks and sit down for lunch with our colleagues. Also we have a lot of 0,8 an 0,6 fte’s but we do work over the weekend or in the evening but do that at home. (Because the office is closed)
I think it depends on the kind of organisation.
Lunch: wrong, it's illegal to work through lunch, and most people take their 30m-1h lunch break as a moment to go for a walk with colleagues.
Colleagues/friends: partially wrong, it'll depend on the environment.
It is no illegal to work through lunch, that is a personal choice
In regards to lunch, in my experience that highly depends on your team. I have been at jobs were everybody had lunch at the desk, were most of the team went out for a walk or where the team was kind of expected to eat lunch together. Mind you, it is at most 30 minutes, which I think is lower than in most other countries (I have worked with a few Americans in the USA, but that was only for a very short period, and I don't know they made more time available for lunch to show the foreigner the best places to lunch or that it was a regular thing).
As a Dutchie, what you're saying about American work culture sounds so exhausting, glad to be here!
Some things are job specific, feels like the startup where I work is definitely different from the university where you work. I've been in a few work environments where people are really disappointed if you don't want to have lunch together. I actually saw that as very Dutch: Between 12:00 and 14:00 at a max, not earlier, not later, sit down: boterhammen met kaas or hagelslag.
I pretty much started my career in the US after college. It was some adjusting going back, working for an American company, yet still seeing Dutch work culture mostly.
I would say the not taking a lunch break bit is the exception at your employer. At every job I’ve had everyone takes their 30 minute break somewhere around noon. At my current company we usually lunch together as a team and my employer also takes care of supplying lunch on company costs.
Since Corona, I work from home 90% of the time. When I'm at home, I work from around 8:30 till 18:00 and when I go to the office, I work there from about 7:30 till 15:00 and leave before traffic becomes bad. Then I work from home again, until around 18:00. Often I work till later, to compensate for time wasted during the day, like when I watching too much TH-cam.
It's so much different than before Corona, when I would wake up every day at 5:50, work from 7:30 till 16:30 and spend an hour getting home. I'm not tired all the time anymore.
Interesting listening to different people's opinions on different places.
There is a huge difference what kind of work you are doing. In some companies workweeks are > 60 hours per week, emails are continue. Also the workload is high with a high level of efficiency. So, it’s of everywhere like you describe.
Not to mention that short workweek.. well.. don't tell anyone but I don't do much when I work from home on Wednesdays and Fridays. The job gets done, and I do a little extra when necessary, but if the time allows me, I relax a little on those days lol. So even though I work fulltime, I also don't.
And I agree with you on the increase of longer working days and the jobs available. It's a double edged sword. For me, working fulltime, I struggled to find a job because there weren't as many available as fulltime jobs. But now it's much easier. However if I want to work less when I get older I can imagine this could leave an impact later on so we'll have to see how it goes. I just try to work hard now so I can relax a little later, hopefully.
The polder model originates from their namesake, Polders, dry land below the surrounding water level. If people missed something, or went rogue, everyone would drown, hense the trend towards collective decisionmaking. I'm a manager, and i tell my team (international software developers) during planning, raise any ideas or improvements you can think of. worst that can happen is that we decide not to use them. If you want me angry, wait till i hear later you had a better idea but didn't speak up.
What angers me is that it's very rare to get any form of compensation for proposing potentially profitable ideas. Why should anyone bother with saving the company money or allowing them to benefit greatly, besides just doing the agreed upon job, and gain nothing extra or very little in return? Nah, mate. Pay up and give credits where credits are due. Incentivise instead of threaten, or even worse, just blatantly stealing the idea and pretending that it's yours (or the company's).
@@AdJOffCourse perhaps i should be a bit clearer. I'm a programmer, and the topic in question is software design, which is considered a core part of the job of everyone working on my team. Your design skills are why we're hiring you.
@@AdJOffCourse trying to make it even clearer by going to a profession that more people understand, you're arguing the equivalent of architects keeping their design ideas to themselves unless their is extra profit for them on top of their salary.
@@shadeblackwolf1508 You're conflating the issue i'm trying to convey. How many unsung heroes are out there that ended up homeless while the companies they worked at (the people at the top or the investors) are now bathing in the profits. It's not just the architects and engineers that are the creatives. Often times it's the people at the bottom that get absolute peanuts for their ingenious solutions.
Where i work we have a whole different work balance. We do not have real coffee breaks, i decide when i need coffee and just go have a cup. And a lot of time i have a walking meeting with someone during the take on high level. Lunch, well we have an own cafeteria. Today i had some soep and a nice bread with warm meat and have some nice conversations with colleagues. But if the weather is nice i also have a little walk after lunch. And since i started before 8:00 (i was a bit early) i stopped at 15:00. When you do your job good, it is ok. And i work around 40 to 45 hours a week. For my job i have the opportunity to begin early if i want have some breaks inbetween but also work in the evening if i want that. And do my job for 70% at home if i want. That freedom gives me more motivation and i can concentrate much better. Oh and we have a pooltable, table football, some games a bar and a fitness.
The dutch dont work less then most Europese landen. You work till your 67years old.in Frankrijk 64.
Dutch or English. Pick one
Many things I can relate to being a Dutchie. Working at the office on tuesday and thursday? Yup, those are the peak these by far and for the reasons you mentioned.
As for the workweek duration, women far more often work parttime. I think mostly because when kids come into the picture, the woman is most often the one cutting back on working hours. It might also be that jobs more often done by women lend more to parttime work.
The only thing I don't recognise (but I do understand) is the taking lunchbreaks together. I think that is most common with teachers, they often (have to) do some preparations for the next class or catch up on some paperwork which they else would have to do after school is out. And then it comes to the other Dutch thing, leaving in time to go home.
I however have lunch with colleagues every day. We eat in the cafeteria with up to I guess 500 people, go out for a walk together or go for lunch in the city.
But yea, even though we have lunch together, have chats and great fun at work, I don't see other colleages after work, only on rare occasions; once or twice a year when we plan a fun day with our team (mostly during work time and often paid by our work). I do see and talk to some colleagues now and then when out shopping or going for a walk, as a couple live in my town. But doing things like I would with friends or family..no. Work is work, not your private life
As an tunneling expert / geoscientist (55yrs) working a lot abroad (6 days x 12 h a week)
and outdoor guiding stuff to be produced, but also interacting with scientists, politicians and civil servants :
I have some questions:
Do you think that Americans are effective from your experience? What about Dutch?
I'm talking here about the real output which is the final product produced / hour? It's not about services only.
I see that the Netherlands is following southern Europe and the West is generally spiraling to a lower level and the Bric - countries have been improving a lot.
Thanks! You made the Netherlands Great again!
another great video ! keep making 'm ! seeing that theres a new video I make myself a coffee (8th one orso) after telling everyone what I think of them and cant stop from laughing listening to what you say.. but remember that all you experience have been different, all this great welfare of today was build by people like my grandfather who had to go to the factory when he was 13 and to wake him up in the morning he was put on a wet cold towel.. thats just 1 expample... dutch should really appreciate what they have today 😊
Monday's is also a popular day to take off because then you have a 3-day weekend (so people who work 4 days a week prefer to take either a Monday or Friday as their day off ....if there are still enough people to cover the work). Wednesdays are popular for people with young children because schools are indeed out early on Wednesdays.
Furthermore....I think every company has their own work culture....sure a number of things you mention are true but it also depends on your job. Working at a university is much different than a higher level position in the corporate sector.... The may get paid for 36 hours a week (or how many FTE's they work) but most people will also work at home after hours.
As for making Dutch friends at work....yep, totally agree.... You'll get along perfectly well with them at work but work is work/personal life is personal life.... With some rare exceptions here and there...
As for my situation: As a secondary school teacher in the NLs......I might only get paid for a part time position but I work 40+ hours a week.
I assume you moved there by getting a work visa? Was that process easy or hard for you? I'm starting to apply to places over there so I can move by the end of the year and am looking for some insight on the topic!
One part of women working shorter weeks that brings perspective, is that the Netherlands has the highest percentage of working age women in Europe. Women are gainfully employed at a higher rate than the average population of every country I could find except Switzerland. Men having a shorter work week on average might fits with a more shared work load.
Interesting point🤔 that's why it's important to interpret numbers and statistics within the right context
The official workweek at my work is 38 hours a week. Because I'm an older employee (I'm 63) a had the opportunity to go work 32 hours per week at 95 percent of my income before taxes. So that's a 5 percent financial reduction. However, because I'm in the highest tax bracket, after taxes the difference is a little over 2.5 percent. I don't even notice this difference. It gets even better. I extendend my 32 hour workweek to 34 hours, working 8.5 hour per day. In return I also have 96 ADV hours annualy on top of my annual 28 vacation days.
The Netherlands is consistently in the top 5 or 10 for having the most productive workers. Last year, it ranked 4th in labour productivity per working hour... the USA ranked 12th. Also, there are sectors/domains in the Netherlands where working fulltime is 36 hours, not 40. That can skew statistics if you simply look at the number of hours people work.
Also the sectors that statistically employ mostly women, often don't have 40-hour/fulltime contracts (anymore) like healthcare and teaching. In my experience, women in the aforementioned sectors often have contracts for 24, 28 or maybe 32 hours. It is not necessarily because they take on more childrearing/-caring duties. Of course, they could take a second job if they wanted to work fulltime but unlike in the USA, it is often not benefical tax-wise to do so. You'll end up paying more taxes and having less take home pay, which makes working two jobs unattractive. Exception being if you have 0-hour contracts, IIRC.
In my personal experience, women tend to work 3-4 days a week and often start working 1 day less if they have children, whereas men often work 4-5 days and then start working 1 day less if they have children. The latter only being when they're raising the children as a family, single fathers generally work 4-5 days a week and either only have their kid(s) every other weekend or co-parent 3 full days (inlcuding weekend) and one half day before/after school.
HI Eva, or is it Ava? I work at the office 1x sometimes 2 x a week (corporate lawyer) but prefer Monday and Wednesday because there less people and its more relaxed (can continue without being distracted). The board / directors also like to work (at the office) this days. But let’s say the majority and back offices mainly work Tuesday and Thursday. Also the traffic to work is more relaxed. If you’re sick you’re actually not really allowed to work. So it’s not like you take days off. And if your sick on your holidays you can inform your work and so your can keep your free days.
??? Currently at my company: at least 3 days a week at the office and 2 days from home... and accumulated overtime during the week is (partly) compensated on Friday...
But culture has changed: when I started at the company the office wasn't empty before 18:30... But as more people got children it changed and people started going home earlier to pick up kids. Also, overtime payout was reduced.
Love meetings? Nope! I like an in depth technical discussion on content! But meetings in which nothing is decided or important is discussed: I'll do that from home... 😉
Hi Eva, I like your video. Maybe nice to know that when you're sick on a vacation day you can call your employer to register it, you get the vacation day back and use it for another day.
I'm a Dutch male working 24 hours a week,
5 day's a week I'm starting at Seven Thirty.
3 x 4 hours & 2 x 6 hours and taking time for lunch.
Really depends on the company if you have a proper lunch break. My company lunches all together at the same time.
I do have some friends left over from work. Like I said it really is per person and company.
Working hours and vacation days depend on your employer. I heard you naming university, that is not a normal company job but more like a government job with a lot of free time compared to other jobs.
In my job it is just 40hrs/week and 26 days leave. (and a 7x24hr standby every 3 weeks)
Most of my friends are from previous jobs, and in the smaller companies there usually is a much more social atmosphere.
I did have a similar experience in larger companies I worked at. In ING, KPMG, KPN and Shell I basically made no friends.
In the HvA I did make some friends even though it is a large organisation.
Hmm, I guess it differs from work place to work place. Nearly every job I've had, most definitely had lunch breaks and at least half of the people I consider my best friends I have met through work...
The reason so many people work parrtime here is because of our “toeslagen” or compensation system. Depending on how much you earn, you receive extra compensations from the governmet. So if you go from working partime to fulltime, your income goes up, but you lose those compemsations. Which means that in alot of cases people are left with less money in the end then If they wore to keep wprking parttime. So there is absolutely no incentive
The days I'm at work I always (!) ask people to join me for lunch! It's so much nicer to talk to each other about other things than work
In The Netherlands people go to work not for friends and fun, but to do actual work and they work very hard, even overtime if needed, or work from home in the evenings if shit needs to get done. However, the work hours situation described here is typical for office clerks and civil servants (ambtenaren), where people come in at 9 and leave at 5 and have a contractual 36-hour (sometimes 38-hour) working week, because everywhere else the norm is 40 hours. When our daughter was born, my wife stopped working on Wednesdays and I on Fridays so we only needed daycare for 2 days (my wife's parents were babysitting one day a week). Now she's almost turning 14, we still both work 32 hours, there is no need to work 40 hours because we can cope financially and on our non-working days we can do housekeeping, get groceries, make private appointments (e.g. get a haircut, take the car to the garage, etc.) without interfering with our busy work schedules. 14 years ago it was easy for a woman to get a parttime job (especially in education and healthcare) but when I as a man asked for a 32 hour working week in 2010, I got declined at many job interviews, 40 hours with unpaid overtime was the norm, this is probably causing the difference in the statistics. Obviously I'm not a civil servant nor an office clerk, but nowadays no one bats an eyelid if a man is asking for a 4-day working week even in my line of work (IT development). Of course the pay is also 80% but I'm making enough money to live a comfortable life with enough quality time.
A few years ago I went shopping in a grocery store. And I saw how the manager of that store was handing the cardboard boxes with milk cans to his employee and the employee put them in the cooling. So much about Dutch hierachy.
I have literally seen the janitor give the director / owner of a medium-sized company advice on how to run things. And he listened!
I guess i'm an exception to so many things... 1. I try to make fun at work, and make sure my co-workers have fun too... 2. Lunch, when i had an office job, i would take my breakaway from my desk & in summers, i would go outside for 30 to 40 minutes.. 3. I made some friends at work, most of them faded over time, but one became (one of) my (two) best friends. 4. I never brought cake to work on my birthday, cause i usually take the day off on my birthday. :D :D ..
Hah, that last part made me chuckle. Good choice :D
I think that lunchtime at work is something you can address and often they will say "ok, let's do lunch together". But someone has to ask first. I think taking time off from your laptop is a doen of self care AND a good time to socialize. So maybe try it?? 😊
My current contract is based on one full FTE (40 hours), however I have an addition to my salary of 24%. Part of that extra is my vacation allowance (8%) but I can spend the rest of it for other convenient things like buying more hours free time. I can do that by planning ahead for the year or on a month to month basis. An extra bought hour cost me the equivalent of 1 hour pay. Nice system. On the other hand I (as most of my colleagues) am not that strict with my time. I am involved with managing the electrical grid of a big part of the country. If something happens that needs our attention outside the office hours we don't look at the clock but just act and do what is needed. And nobody is doing difficult to compensate for that extra time worked on a time for time basis.
Hiya Ava (Eva?) my experience is rather different but maybe that’s because I’ve a job in higher management. I have always worked at least 80 hours a week bcus else there’d wouldn’t be money be made, right? Days off were my own risk, no such thing as sick days. They’d make me pay for those. I guess it all depends on what kind of enterprise you’re working.
you describing people at work sprinting towards the end of the day is really funny. Can you please make a comedy show with this in mind? Like Monthy python style. Would really be fun.
Where are working at spreading the office days to decrease traffic. No lunch breaks is just in certain sectors. Most do have them often even obligated by central/union contracts. Companies have insurance that compensates them for when employees get ill, so its not really an issue.
If your sick you are sick. I'm dutch abd at the beginning i tried to get back in to early. results you aren't at your best and you need to redo your work or even worse you get other people sick. Just take the rest recover and start working again when your good. Ok i have function where thats not alwys possible but i just log in from home do the minimale that i need to do and log of.
Let me give you another tip. If you become sick during your vacation or days off, you should also tell work as they will give you extra days off.
It totally depends in what field of work you're doing. I worked overtime in 5 shifts and my friends and family thought I was joking. When in 3 shifts I was doing over 60 hours when from day to dogwatch (62 hours and 5 nightshifts on top).
I don't think you're joking, but I do think you're completely bonkers for doing that. Surely there must be better options out there for you.
@@paulthiel5145 For a short stint it is doable but the company saw it as "culture" and sort of voluntairy mandatory. Guess, they now can't find people to work there. The real problem is that they take on too much work which is explained as a "luxury problem". Simply not sustainable yet contract managers (two year contracts) have no mid or long term vision.
Although I do recognize the "stereotyping" of the dutch work culture, I have to say that I recognize it mostly in "governmental" types of companies (government, cities employees, schools, etc). When you work in commercial companies it is different. Then also taking in effect large (international) companies compared to smaller (startup) companies you will see a very big difference in work culture. Not even talking about bigger companies which origin from a family business.
Not to mention the difference in what region of the netherlands you are.
Also the work-friend thing, very recognizable, although I do have a couple colleagues that became friends, it not common and most are from my younger years when I was single and we would hit a pub after work.
I also could imagine, one of the reasons for this is the Netherlands is not big. So friend are never far away. So why make a new friend if you can easily meet a friend after work. Again when I (we) started a family, my prio changed also big on this part.
I work 4 days a week as a Dutch clinical microbiologist (MD, PhD). That's enough. I'm 58 years old and want to enjoy my pension when it arrives (when I'm 67). When I was younger, 80 hours per week didn't bother me. I don't need to prove myself, I did it when I was younger. That's the Dutch mindset. Love your videos, they're spot on.
I am a dutch working and living abroad. when dutch people are at work it is work they do. americans are at work, but not always do work. americans are 10+ hours in the office, but highly ineffective compared to dutch. just my 2 cents and don't take a semi-government job, like working at a university as the norm. its commercial enterprises where it matters.
If you want to know more about cultural differences in work life, I could recommend the book: The Culture Map, it is really interesting
Maybe i have an old fasion job as a dutchman. I have a contract of 40 hours but i mostly work 50 hours a week becouse its not possible to get my work done in 40 hours.
Some of these difference seem, to me, not general Dutch but very specific.
I do make (some) friends at work, I do get some email after work hours, and we do have fun at work :)