The plan of "THONOS" actually makes sense if you really think about it. Thanos was under the belief that he alone was needed to correct the universe, that he was the only one with the will to do it and he was under the assumption that doing the same thing for everyone would lead to his ideal outcome. Thanos is basically the personification of authoritarianism and like most authoritarians throughout history once "Thonos" sees that there are people who his plan did not work for his conclusion is not that his plan was flawed it was the people what were flawed and needed to be fixed. Rather than coming to the conclusion that he was wrong he now feels that he needs more violence to beat everyone into submission and act how he wants them to. From that perspective the plan of Thonos does work, he is simply doing what he sees as the next logical step after his first plan failed. The mistake of Thanos and Thonos is having a one size fits all plan for a universe of individuals rather than taking a step back and thinking if it is the right thing to do.
I dont think this is a case of poor continuity. It probably was in Thanos' character to let his minions do more of the work, until he started aquiring the stones, by that point, he became more involved in the process directly.
Thanos had to wait until 2018 to retrieve the stones because he couldn't go after them until they were all in plain sight, and with the events of Ragnarok and the destruction of Asgard and Odin, it was time.
Instead of the Rat accidentally walking on the perfect combination of buttons to release Scott, they should have had Luis come looking for the van, get it out of impound, and he be the one gets it open and releases Scott. They missed a perfect opportunity to let Luis explain to Scott what all had happened in his signature style.
For me it was showing the resolution of Banner and Hulk freaking off-screen! That was one of the bigger plot points of Infinity War and they were just like, "Oh, they worked it out. No big deal." Hell, just showing that, even in flashback, would have been a perfect setup to a Thanos rematch.
Hulk wasn’t actually afraid though, he hated being used. Hulk doesn’t fear overwhelming opposition he would fight until death. Any way, research it, there is a lot online and here on YT about it as many including I thought what you did.
I honestly like the fact that the “real” Thanos died after completing his mission. It made things feel real when Thor killed him and it didn’t change anything. It was simply a meaningless revenge kill.
@@МаксимК-я4ы His actions were meaningless anyway. They brought back the missing population in 5 years. At a normal breeding rate it would have taken about 50 years to double the population again which is still nothing. He was an idiot. But he won.
@@МаксимК-я4ы the avengers didnt undo everythint It had a huge cost They didnt brought back back widow, real gamorah, loki, angry hulk and didnt managed to save tony stark The avengers were heavily crippled in this movie
It would have been better that Stan Lee's Cameo in Endgame was him being a janitor with a rat pet that casually left it next to the Van where antman was trapped. That would have given Stan lee a plot weight and would have hint him as the ONE-ABOVE-ALL
@TurtleO’Confusion the implication is that Stan Lee Would have been hinted as the One Above All. Imagine that at the end of the scene, he vanishes. It wouldn't be just someone's pet, but a cosmic entity disguised as a janitor that is taking care of the snap in an indirect way.
holyfreak86 I love the contrast. Ant Man’s movies are more light-hearted and fun. Yet from those movies, it introduced the thing that helped save the universe.
@@canvas_125 and it surprised me. Everyone tought thar Captain Marvel would be the key player here... and she wasn't! Ant Man was. I think Spider Man will be in the front of the MCU from now on. Those movies don't have other heroe as important as him
He is nitpicking. That car was in the yard for 5 years at minimal. As half the people disappeared, people ain't buying cars anyway. The place was filthy and rats were expected to be around. They would be trying to find food and would stumble in the commands for the time travel machine in the car panel.
@@Willowy13 he is right, endgame is just overrated garbage with lazy writing. A rat saving a superhero? Sounds like a bad fanfiction made by 12 year olds. Bout who cares? Marvel knows that their fanbase are dumb and losers so they will watch anything lol
Maybe thanos took so long to snap his fingers again to destroy the stones. Was simply because he was still recovering from the first snap. Remember “it almost killed me” just snapping once?
The snap that almost killed him was the snap to destroy the stones, that being said, he did have recovering to do after the initial snap, as when he snapped he had an angry viking's sizeable axe lodged in his chest.
@Daniel Adams I'm almost positive the reliance on randomness is to echo the thought that everything in our universe is said to have come about by random chance, because you know, Hollywood LOVES pushing their own philosophies and Godlessness on their viewers.
Even though the first 1/3 of the movie is "slow", I think it is necessary to see the feel the impact of what happened at Avengers Infinity War. It is not about the action or villain, but the ones that remain behind and our original Avengers. And it is because of this, the rest of the movie is that much more satisfying.
@@ruscul8711 It shows the impact of Thanos as a villain. That's his legacy he left behind. Even after he died, he is still the invisible villain, because of the visible, deep impact he continues to have on the life of those left behind after the snap. Those are the most deceptive and sinister of villains: the one who will exist as a dull, depressing ache, even if they are "removed" from the dynamic.
@@maxborn7400 nah... the directors already said that they are not going to do a back to back movie ever again cause it was taking a toll on them. The story is sloppy and lazy. The russo's did the best job in CA. winter soldier, civil war, infinity war but not this one. i could remove the first 2/3 of the movie, watch it again and feel the same way I watched it first.
He said he did it so the snap cannot be undone. I think the directors said using stones made Thanos physically weaker each time he did it. He wasn't in good health after the final battle in Wakanda. Remember Thor hit him. He probably knew that eventually they will find him, so he destroyed the stones.
The whole point in the first half is that nothing is happening, the villain is their grief and guilt. Nothing is meant to happen cause they are hopeless
This vid sounds like a film student preaching formulaic theories. I like it when there is a bit of randomness like in real life. Shows like Rick and Morty is a great example of fresh writing.
No it shows a world that lost the Avengers failed because Thor didn't go for the head of Thanos. Miracles happen in movies all the time but this was more like Doctor Strange's prophecy of that one future that they win: that's how slim it is
3:30 I never felt this "slowness" as an issue. To me that felt like it was exactly what they were going for and I appreciated it because it fit the theme of "we lost and don't know where to start to fix it".
Is it convenient Tony just figures out time travel? Yeah. Is it convenient Nebula just links with her old self? Yeah. Is it convenient that the rat steps on the button? Yeah, very lucky events. The chances must be like, one in a million, or maybe one in fourteen million six hundred and five.
Except had Nebula just traveled to the future as soon as her ship was being pulled up by Thanos it could of avoided an entire third act and the Avengers would still win.
9:45 i think thonos is being very clever here. attracting the most powerful avengers to himself to fight while still undercover nebula find the stones. even thor said its a trap. so i don't think he is doing nothing here.
No way you rain down fire on them just to have your undercover person go searching for the gauntlet. Raining fire on them to begin with was extremely stupid as he could have just as easily killed undercover nebula. Also how does nebula just link up to a machine she's never seen before and not only know how to go back to that same time stamp but is also able to pull the entire ship through time after they just get done discussing that the suits are important for time travel. Therefore the Ship can't just jump forward without that red stuff which they explain they are completely out of...
I saw a comment on another video that said if you were watching Infinity War and Endgame back to back the first hour of Endgame would act as a calming down period from the nonstop action of Infinity War
ah yes, showing the impact of the snap by making the characters slightly depressed and shoehorning in half-assed jokes. Im saying this as a disappointed watcher who had high hopes for Endgame.
the beginning of the endgame is excellent. It is slow. it is empty. This is the best way to show the emptiness that must have felt people living after the snap. It helps us, as viewers connects with the heroes that have survived the snap
I feel you but they really took to long for that, instead they could've summarized a bit more. And still, adding a villain or threat to make them move up wouldn't necessarily take out the part were you see the sad consequences. They also didn't need to add all that time traveling practice and funny part.
@@jayw900 What I find funny, as far as im concerned, the toll only came about because they just thought it was at a price. I mean the dang thing is supposed to ignore all rules of the universe yet it nearly kills them? And they *have* to snap for something big?
@@StarterSteel Those are good points. I took it as the stones being very depowered in the MCU as compared to the comics. Godlike power, sure, but in the comics Thanos was a god upon obtaining the stones. Mere thought was made and unmade by his will. They also had the deus ex machina of Adam Warlock which the movies don't have. Or at least, we haven't seen him yet despite being hinted at by GotG 2.
Thanos and Hulk were both very heavily wounded/scarred after using the Stones and in terms of the Hulk he's damn near indestructible. It goes without saying that for Thanos to be able to use it with mostly superficial damage whilst the Hulk lost the use of one of his arms that he has insane constitution. To address it directly, yeah give the guy 2 days to recover, I think the only reason it's became a question for many was the lack of clarity on how the gauntlet effects the wielder. Does it A) Kill the Wielder B) Wound the Wielder C) Make them extra crispy
SuperParkourio It was. That five years will spawn all kinds of complications, miniscule and expansive. For a start: (1) there will now without a doubt be more focus on cultivating teams of superhumans and all the freak collateral damage that implies. Which will inevitably create conflict, resentment, and paranoia. Further, (2) searching for and reacting to intergalactic threats, i.e. interplanetary potential collateral damage. (3), Fucking with the time continuum. That's not counting the unhinged personalities, personas, and personal vendettas created and harvested by the snap and blipback. Endgame is a deliberate jump off into messiness. There will be people who love the Avengers for bringing people back - and those who'll hate them and every superhuman/hero after. By the time (if) mutants (or inhumans) turn up, you'll understand why the first thing people want is superhuman registration, and sentinels.
juanita dark That’s a super interesting prediction for the MCU, and I think it would be an awesome angle for marvel to look at through the films of phase 4 and 5. Given the possibility of a dark avengers movie this would be an awesome lead in for a world that would trust people like Norman Osbourne more than the avengers (obviously they’d have to introduce Norman Osbourne first, but its the perfect time given the vaccuum the death of Tony Stark will have made)
@@harrisont2004 You actually got me excited for Norman Osbourne to appear in the MCU. However, Spiderman is only getting 1 more movie and that completes his trilogy. Plus Tom Holland has confirmed he has 1 more movie left in his contract.
It's implied that Tony had already been working on time travel. I assumed that he had given up on the idea, but his conversation with the Avengers made him try again. The rat is super convenient. I agree with you there. You claim there was no real obstacles when they traveled in time, but I very much disagree. You may not like the obstacles they wrote (fair enough that's subjective), but they're definitely there. There is a constant state of anxiety every moment because they're not sure what will happen. They lose the tesseract and have to figure out another way to steal it. As mentioned, Cap had to fight himself, but he also had to figure out a way to grab the scepter from Hydra. He may have solved that obstacle quickly, but it was an obstacle. As mentioned, Clint and Nat had to figure out who was going to die (you brushed past this but that is a pretty big problem to have). Cap and Tony had to get the tesseract and particles out of SHIELD without really knowing the base at all. Nebula's connection with younger Nebula alerts Thanos to their plan (whether you like young Thanos or not, that's a pretty big obstacle). As mentioned, Bruce had to convince the Ancient One to give up the time stone. You made fun of this one, but it's still an obstacle. It may not be as risky or as intense as the other obstacles, but Bruce still had to have a verbal sparring match with one of the world's smartest people. You said, "Oh, he just happened to say the right thing," but did you think it would never come up how Thanos got the time stone? That doesn't seem like a coincidence. Even if it was a coincidence like the rat, it would still be an obstacle. That's a lot of obstacles that supposedly don't exist. I agree Thanos isn't as good in this one, but I think it's for the opposite reason that you do. I don't think this movie needed a villain at all. That's hard to say because I love the way this movie wraps up, but having a villain is not the point of this movie. Having another villain (or having Thanos be planning something else from the beginning) would be redundant, boring, and take up a lot more time in an already long movie. The whole point of this movie is responding to what the villain has already done. We only need a physical antagonist for the fight at the end. I would argue that this movie DOES have an antagonist all the way through: time. They weren't able to make it to Thanos in time to get the stones back. They had to live in this broken world for five years. They struggle to crack time travel. Going back in time has a lot of obstacles (yes it does ;p), Thanos learns about their plan because two Nebulas are in the same time, and Tony even says at the end "When you mess around with time, it tends to mess back," referring to Thanos arriving and bombing them. To me, Thanos is not as strong in this movie because he is just the physical representation of the metaphysical antagonist. I still wish he was a stronger villain, but I don't think he needed to be more integral to the plot of this movie. I say all this as a fan of your videos! I'm not trying to be negative, I just wanted to share my thoughts. Keep up the great work man!
Thanks for this comment, I was thinking along the same lines. I do think that maybe the rat is more than it appears, like something connected to a new hero or someone we don't know about yet. I also think the plot could've happened even if ant man hadn't been brought back, because Tony would've still figured out time travel, talked to Pepper, and gone back to the Avengers. For Thanos, they could've done a bit better but I think it was at least somewhat interesting to see the psyche of a younger, more arrogant, and arguably more dangerous Thanos explored.
No without Antman nothing would have happened. Everyone had accepted the new world and had given up on finding a way to undo it. A specially Tony. Tony had finally found happiness and peace. From his perspective Antman returning and him figuring out time travel ruined his life. From a meta perspective on the other hand it gave the character a great conclusion. So, no. This movie would not have happened without the MCUs lord and saviour a random rat.
We need a scene of deadpool going around the world solving problems kinda like in deadpool 2, and showing deadpool spraying liquid cheese spray on the button for antman’s van with him looking at the cam saying “you’ll thank me later”
I have carried on and... the "two days ago" dispute. Thanos was pretty banged up by using them in the first place. He knew that it would take some recuperating in order to use them again in order to not die. Even though it didn't matter if he died or not, the motivation behind destroying the stones was to remove the possibility of undoing what he had done.
"Thonos is the kind of guy who sits back and lets other people do the work" Thanos tells Ronan to bring him the Orb (Guardians of the Galaxy) Thanos tells his disciples to bring him the two Stones on Earth (Infinity War) Thanos tells Gamora to find the Soul Stone for him (off screen, but still)
Because he's not omnipresent, while his disciples and daughter make the things he commands, he is *also* doing active things. He delegates because he cannot do everyrhing on his own, but he goes for the reality and soul stone and fight the Avengers actively.
@@PalomaNV also Thanos has been just sitting and telling other people to do his work for years before Infinity War. This Thonos is the same Thanos from other movies, before he grew tired of just waiting and seeing others failing, then deciding to do things himself and starting Infinity War. It's not like Thanos had never been just waiting and commanding from a distance.
It's the only timeline, where an entire sequence of events leads to their success. So, not just a rat, but incalculable number of events, that made everything the way it is. Although, when I said after Infinity War, that Thanos lost the very moment Dr. Strange figured out to weaponize Time Stone, I didn't expect time travel to be part of the equation. Like... How can you predict future, when it is in the past? Admittedly, Infinity Stones are bullshit, when they are utilized properly. Which Thanos never did, only using them as a blunt tool for sweeping solitions.
Thonos motivation is that he has seen that killing half the life will still result in the resistance of those left alive so if he kills all and then rebuilds it the right way it will be happy for him saving them
Very true. However, Thonos is still not anywhere near as humane or fleshed out as the Thanos. He had become the quintessentially villain that so many movies have. Evil for the sake of it. I actually understood Thanos' motivation, thoughts, his pain. I did share on his pathos when he had to kill Gamora.
I know this is an old conversation, but I feel like Thanos should have kept his original goal of taking out all life to save the rest, plus getting rid of the possibility of time travel (getting rid of time travel, and those who solved it like Stark) and just like that, Thanos is pretty much the same
@@theyoboygamer3754 And how do you do that? You remind me of a kid who doesn't know that doing is much harder than talking. "Make a robot that's immune to all damage. And also make the robot immune to all magic. And also make the robot immune to things that can cancel the robot's powers. And also make the robot immune to God's powers"
@@anonymouspokemon4623 1. Use the infinity stones. If they can destroy a moon with only 4/6 of it's power, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a stretch to take out time travel, or at least the idea of it, or even just the people who are capable of inventing it. 2. Yeah I'm young. So? How does my age change the legitimacy of my ideas? Remember, we're living in a world when a 15 year old black boy managed to get into college. Honestly this type of thinking is the reason kids only remember 2% of what they learn, and why kid shows aren't clever or competent anymore.
Thanos explains that the reason he changes his motivation (shredding the universe) because of how the Avengers tried to undo it. He needs a universe where people don’t remember the old world.
The rare point of yours that I disagree with so far: Thanos seems like he has logical sense in Infinity War but, to me, it always was quite apparent that his reasoning was just a rationalization that he created for himself. He is insane and intelligent not intelligent and misguided, the insane part is really important. In End Game since he saw how his original plans were undone he decided that he would just kill everybody since killing people was his main goal, not saving people, despite what he tells everybody including himself. That's highlighted by the many people who question why Thanos decides to wipe out half of life instead of creating twice as many resources, both of which would have the same affect. He doesn't see saving as the main goal, he wants to kill. Opening scene of Infinity War he "has his fun" by kicking the Hulk's ass and then he goes and stabs Heimdall in the chest after he saves the Hulk. It is the same character in both films but one of them feels more of a connection to the heroes than the other. I do agree that films should stand alone or else what's the point but for me this is literally the only movies that are exceptions, Infinity War isn't nearly as good without watching at least a few of the previous entries and End Game definitely doesn't work without Infinity War. Really like the channel though! Just found it a few days ago.
I don't think killing people was his main goal and I don't think him saying in Endgame that he's going to start over proves that point either. His goal is and always will be to save people, just in a really messed up way. He's set on eliminating half of living beings to save the other half because that was what his goal was on his home planet titan and he believes had he done that his home planet would still exist. Him saying he's going to start over doesn't prove his goal is just to kill people. Essentially he's saying "these people are ungrateful for being saved. I'll just create new people who will be grateful and eliminate the old ones out of necessity so they dont try to undue it." Also, if he just created 2x the resources, wouldn't they just run out? resources are finite. At the same time, eliminating half the population shouldn't matter either unless he's going to snap again because eventually the same problem will occur, but the elimination story is much more interesting. Lastly him killing Heimdall isn't him "having fun". Thanos only kills out of necessity, not for pleasure. He killed Heimdall because he saw him as threat after seeing what potential he had. Think about, the only Avenger he was going to kill forsure was Iron Man (other than vision because he needed the stone). Tony was the only one he knew by name and he was going to finish him off before Strange intervened. Why? Because Tony was a serious Threat. Why didn't he have his fun with Thor, the Guardians(twice), Dr. Strange, Spiderman and every other Avenger after having them beaten and disabled?
One thing I think gets discounted is how Thanos felt seeing his plan succeed then fail. It's been established he practiced this plan for YEARS. He tried it on planets. He's not insane - he tried it, over and over, no doubt had economists, scientists, etc think it over. He is shown to have built his whole life on this plan. Now imagine in just one second, you see your whole life plan being reduced to nothing. The whole thing is pointless. Of course he would be 2d. He is only motivated by rage at this point. To be fair, I dont think they established this well enough. Even just one scene where Thanos better described that he is angry at his loss would have made him 1000x better. But, I think the logic is there.
In comics Death's existence was quite relevant in Thanos motivations, wich explains why he would chose the killing over the abundance in resources when both achieve the same results. And i do hope that with the eternals or even deadpool (though i dont think DP would be a good debut for her) we actually get some screen for her, by showing how she actually was the secret plotter from this phase (solving the series of lucky events problem) and tie the expanding marvel cosmic universe with what has already happened up till now. Though marvels next villain will be kang and im not that well versed in comics to know if what i said is viable ;-;.
That is inherently wrong. It was repeatedly implied that his planet drove itself to extinction due to overuse of Resources. He kills the asgardians but not all of them. Many were still alive, possibly half of them. And he was into the concept of helping half of the people live from wayyy before 5 years. He was never a madman. A VERY desperate man. Endgame simply removed his personality as if it didn't exist. As much as it was a good payoff, it still uses lazy writing for us to root for Iron Man instead of the villain
rats breed quicker and with out man to keep them in check there be a lot of them every where ! so it was higher chance of rat happening. the rat didn't push right buttons! it stepped on the touch pad which was still active.
Easy explanation for Thanos waiting would be to gain enough energy/strength to snap his fingers again... The first snap hurt him pretty badly and while he was willing to die he wasn't trying to kill himself.
@@TheCowHerder1 did you even watch the endgame movie? He was harmed because he was holding the ultimate conduits of cosmic power in his hand and unleashing it.
@@TheCowHerder1 That seems like a massive hole in Thanos' plan. If he were to turn into dust right then in Wakanda, the Avengers could just take the stones and use them to bring everyone back except Thanos.
People wanted to torch Disney because The Last Jedi did not spare 1 minute for Luke to grieve Han's death and he is saying that the first act isn't good because of the grieving being shown.
Maybe it felt a little bit longer than it should be, in my opinion, that Widow having online meeting and cap coming after that would be enough, that Captain, Joe Russo and other people counseling each other was unnecessary
@@Sirrajj the counseling section was important, it's to show what Cap has been doing with his life after the snap. Its better than just exposition of saying what Cap did
That “Thonos” quote was taken out of context though. Thanos decided to restart the universe because he realised he simply couldn’t succeed with the avengers in the mix. Also nice star wars/game of thrones reference 😂
Harrison T Exactly what I thought too. He honestly did a Cinemasins here by leaving out some important details in order to fool/manipulate the audience. Before "Thonos" says that he will use the stones to wipe out all life he also says this: "I thought by eliminating half of life, the other half would thrive. But you've shown me, that's impossible." This means that he has the same motivation as Thanos.
@@lonestarr1490 But the reason why killing off half the universe never worked out as Thanos imagined is not because of the Avengers. By saying "But you've shown me, that's impossible." he is not directly referencing them as the sole reason his plan didn't work. He is basically saying that the Avengers are a representation of humanity. By going through numerous struggles just to obtain the stones and reverse the effects of The Snap, they have proven to him that humanity will never understand his ways and will do whatever it takes to go back to its previous state. In his book ungrateful creatures like that have no place in his new world and thus he wants to wipe the slate clean. That, funnily enough, ties into why Thanos is so different in Endgame. It is not that the character was changed or flattened. He has always had a classic case of a God complex. However, while in Infinity War we see the story through the lens of his pwn inflated ego, in Endgame we see it through everyone else's. While in his eyes he is righteous and the universe's last hope, in reality he is nothing more than a raging egomaniac with access to unlimited power.
@@lonestarr1490 It didn't not work only because of the avengers but because everyone that remained (at least on earth) was miserable. It didn't end in utopia for anyone.
@@castigousmetamageus8356 ooh you just gave me an idea. So in another comment I said that I would keep a fairly slow first act, but avoid the thonos issue by keep original thanos alive. He's imprisoned and hannibal lecters various characters, a living reminder of their failure. It builds the motivation for the final confrontations: for the avengers to bring back people, but also allows thanos to realize that people won't move on, and that he has to redo the entire creation for life to prosper according to his wishes. Ant-man finding out the post-snap world on his own was fairly strong, so i'm not sure I would change the rat thing too much. Anyways, OG Thanos escapes his prison and while the avengers go fetch the infinity stones, he also goes to meet his younger self to recover his army (he only has two vials of pym particles, and cannot go after every stone, so recovering his army and bring it to the present is the most logical move). they avengers now have more of a ticking clock than before, cause they know thanos at large. Thanos & Thonos have a debate over which of them has to lead, thanos kills thonos in a duel meant to keep balance intact. The third act is pretty much the same, except Thanos's update to his motivations have been clearly established from much earlier.
I think Thanos’ character was different on purpose. The new Thanos learns that he eventually gets the stones at some point. This takes away any doubt from his mind. He becomes over confident and cocky. His pride is what causes his downfall in endgame. In infinity war, Thanos had no way of knowing if he’d get all the stones. Yes, he was confident, but there may have been some shred of doubt in him. This is why he came off as more calculated and smart. He had no choice but to think of ways that he could get the stones creativity. There was no ego to get in the way. In endgame, his ego gets in the way of his true plans. He now feels entitled to the stones.
Also, he destroys the stones so NO-ONE else can ever use them, and UNDO what he has done... (leaving aside if he'd ever have to REPEAT the same feat when population rises again...)
Plus, he never suffered the loss of Gamora, so he didn't share the empathy (such as sparing Stark and the Avengers when they attacked him in Wakanda) that IW Thanos learned.
One big issue with that..... thanos was like he was in infinity war for his whole life, you don’t just change your life goals on a whim. If they wrote him properly he would stop them from getting the stones. Or he would wait until he gets the stones in his timeline (because he knows he will) and then do the same thing, while also using them to erase their actions in bringing everyone back, and make his current timeline the main one. And probably kill all the avengers so they can’t go back in time.... or just kill the rat.
Hey Filmento, I've stumbled upon your videos and find most of them pretty interesting and entertaining to watch, but that being said I don't think this video is as tight nit as some of your other work for a few reasons. 1. I find it a bit funny for you to say that Thanos has always been an 'active character' when for the past 10 + years of films he's been sitting on a floating throne allowing others to do his work for him. It was only until Infinity war when he HAD to step in and even then he still sent most of his minions to do the work. If 'Squidward' had gotten the necklace off of Strange we would have never had the fight on Titan, if the Avenger's hadn't shown up at the train station Midnight would have gotten Vision and the mind stone. Most of the gems he had to get were because his minions failed him and he HAD to act. 2. I think adding a secondary antagonist at this late in the game in a movie that, whether we like it or not, is a second part to Infinity war would be so jarring as a moviegoer. We would have to flesh him/her out and give them motivation, a purpose and so on and so forth or they would be a simple D list marvel villain like many of the movie villains before. At least for me, I would find it just as contrived as the 'rat' scene that suddenly a new villain shows up out of nowhere in the final movie of the OG Avengers. 3. Saying that Thonos irradicating the universe and then rebuild it isn't something the real Thanos would do is, in my opinion, a poor critique. The reason this younger Thanos is prepared to wipe out the whole universe and start again is that the OG Thanos did that already and the younger one sees how it has brought him to the current predicament he is in right now. I think it would be very confusing if the past Thanos merely was like, "When I get the Gauntlet, I'll do the exact same thing that my future self will do!" He saw that his plan left those who would want to revert his actions, so why not clear the board and start from scratch? You also bring up that Thanos never got any development in Endgame but he doesn't have to, this is the same Thanos we saw in Infinity War but REacting to the Avenger's plans instead of acting as he did before. He had the ball in his court during IW, he had a response for everything and was ready to plow through them all, whereas in Endgame he knew nothing about it and had to react to what they were planning on doing. He doesn't need to talk about his daughter or his homeworld in this one because we already saw who he was in IW, why bring it up again other than to reiterate what we already know? And you just saying 'that's not how that works,' doesn't discount that this is still the Thanos we knew in IW but younger and reacting to a whole new set of circumstances. 4. He didn't use the stones to destroy the stones for no reason, he destroyed them so the Avengers could never use them to change back what he did, so I guess you could say he DID destroy them because he knew SOMEONE would come after them, that being the Avengers. I'll grant him doing it after two days is arbitrary but would it have made the movie better if they said he destroyed it a week ago because he thought that would be the best time? or maybe a month from then so it would be on his birthday? Does it really matter when he destroyed it? Honestly, that's the smartest thing he could have done and if Ant-Man wasn't saved by that glorious rat he would have gotten away with it. 5. Speaking of rat, I think most people have a certain amount of leeway they will give a movie when it comes to contrivances and conveniences, sometimes you're able to look past them and sometimes you can't. If that rat hadn't pressed those buttons Ant-man would have been trapped in that realm forever and there would be no movie; that's true...but, I could say the same for many moments in the MCU. If that bomb that landed at Stark's feet had actually been an effective bomb he would have died instead of becoming Iron Man, if the plane landing in the frozen ocean actually killed Cap we wouldn't have Captain America in the present/future and there would be no other Captain America movies. I know mine could seem like a stretch but honestly, it only matters as to what degree you find them annoying, I thought it was stupid that the rat freed him but I saw it as a small moment that didn't really ruin the movie. 6. The pacing problem only seems to be a problem if we look at this movie as a stand-alone movie and not a 'Part 2' to a two-parter finale for the MCU, there's a reason that when the movies were announced they were called "Infinity wars part 1 and 2'. Now, could they have done some stuff to make it feel less bloated in some areas? I won't deny that but I think it was nice to see how the people of the world and the Avengers are dealing with the universe-spanning genocide the just had. 7. I wouldn't say that Nebula connecting to her future self is arbitrary, we've never been given any reason not to believe something like this could or couldn't happen. We know very little of what goes on with the inner workings of Nebula so saying it's arbitrary isn't exactly right. Convenient? Yes. Arbitrary? No. 8. You say that everything is too easy in the time travel arc and yet you point out several moments that cause conflict and problems, Hawkeye and Black widow, Stark losing the Tecceract thanks to the Hulk, Cap facing his former self, and you forgot Nebula being captured and kicking off the whole third act! There's plenty of conflict and issues that the team have to face off against. I am guessing you mean more of an antagonistic threat but not every threat as to be solely forced by an antagonist. Hell, you brought up a movie in your previous analysis that doesn't have a main antagonist and that's the original Back to the Future, Marty is sent back in time by Doc Brown and he just needs to make sure his mom and dad get together, they didn't need a villain for it and yet it still felt compelling by having small conflicts and an overarching plot. Their small conflicts caused a ripple effect that brought the larger, antagonistic conflict to their timeline. 9. Your 'biggest' point against this Thonos is that his driving motivation is non-existent but that is just plain wrong, his motivation is said in the movie! When he sees through Nebula that his plan is realized and the Avengers are trying to stop it, he travels to the present to stop that from happening. Once the Avengers bring back everyone, he sees that leaving half of the world alive would only cause more problems for him so he changes his plan, to start fresh! He realizes his first plan won't work and changes it accordingly, and you say there's no development. 10. Just like in IW, he sees himself as destiny, that's why he says, "I am inevitable." because you can "dread it, run from it, destiny arrives all the same and now it's here, or should I say I am." Him seeing his future self accomplish his goals only bolsters his feeling of being destiny. 11. I don't think Thanos is a hero, or rather, I don't think Thanos cares if people think of him as a 'hero' all he cares about is that he is right! He sees himself as right! And he still does in this version of himself. That's why he does what he does and is still steadfast in his conviction. I still very much enjoy your channel and I hope this doesn't come off as an attack or anything but I just felt like this video wasn't your strongest, I still find your work to be quite entertaining though and look forward too more of your videos in the future.
Hell I wanted to write a comment buuut then I saw yours lol. Yeah I really agree with almost all of your points the only exemption being the whole rat thing. While yeah random things occur all the time in the MCU & in the comics and the whole idea of superheroes is kinda based upon that, that random things can happen and you can become a superhero and since random things happen to everyone that is, imo, what makes ist so beautiful in the first place. Yet I don’t think this should be a formula for making a movie or a period of one. I think the whole rat thing could’ve been written a lot better than make it a mere coincidence. I can’t really think of one right now but I’m not a screen writer either lol. Other than that I fully agree with you.
I like your points but my point while watching the Van scene is why didn’t someone press the button far sooner? Like your telling me that the person who found the van was not curious as to what any of the buttons did? That no one thought to fiddle with it.
The most comic accurate would be the one one from the Avengers end credit scene who slyly looked at the camera in a "that's what I'm talkin' about" way when he was warned to pick on Earth was to "court Death."
@@ayylmao8375 that thanos is pretty useless now since he already served the purpose How is a retired farmer that dont care anything anymore would be a perfect villain? A much more aggresive and younger thanos is much more
"Warrior Thanos", or "Thonos", was not meant to represent the same Thanos. I noticed others have pointed this out too. If my memory hadn't betray me, I recall the Russo Brothers (who dubbed him "Warrior Thanos") describing him more of a "force of nature" than the villain he was in 'Infinity War'. That film's Thanos stood up by himself. He was portrayed as the protagonist. In 'Endgame', "Thonos" is a product of the time machine and by extension, the Avengers themselves. " _We messed with time, it tends to mess back._ " - Tony, 'Endgame' Strange granted them a chance at victory, not victory itself. In this film, the Avengers are forced to deal with the consequences of their actions, their failures in 'Infinity War'. The Avengers cheated to win and the cost is spawning "Thonos". This take on Thanos knows only with what has been given: the opportunity to collect all the Stones at once, already assembled on a Gauntlet and the knowledge that his future self has succeeded. His Nebula succeeded and he did not went through Ronan's failure/betrayal. He did not have to sacrifice his Gamora. His empathic qualities replaced with his vigor. His youth is represented in his purple skin, rather than pink as seen on his older self. His speech (Which I thought still pretty well-written and well-acted) did not contradict his 2018 self, but exposes his true plan. He did not want life to thrive, he wanted to be a god. It's always questioned to why 2018 Thanos did not just double the resources. Well he always could, but that's not how he sees as a solution. Overall, I'm satisfied with "Warrior Thanos", not as the villain, but as an antagonist. That said, I do prefer had they fought with the original Thanos instead. He once won because of his determination, his strong will, which the Avengers lacked; it is their flaw. It's only logical if Thanos eventually suffer defeat for his flaws, now that the Avengers have found their determination.
You bring up some interesting interpritations of "Thonos" that make me appreciate him more than I once had. I wouldn't say I like him though, but can understand the take on the character and how "Thonos" is servicable and right for the conclusion of Endgame. Ultimately I agree that I would have preffered to see the Avengers fight the original Thanos, who wielded all 6 stones. I would have framed Thanos as defeating the Avengers infinitely and reviving them in order to defeat them again and again, in service to prove he is their inescapable "destiny". By exploiting his overconfidence and gradual carelessness in his use of the stones by reviving the Avengers, I would have them somehow overcome him by outsmarting him. Its not a fleshed out idea, or a perfect one but it's simply what I would have preffered.
Not only did thonos not have to sacrifice gamorra, she hasnt even rebelled yet. the whole having a bomb teleported into his ship hasnt happened. Hes had no setback on his villaintrip at all for devellopment of his mindset
Well put. I enjoyed Endgame but it's Thanos certainly lacked character. He just wasn't the same. I, and I'm sure many others, were excited to see how the Avengers would defeat the Infinity War Thanos in a grand battle. Not killed in the first 5 minutes.
I just think if Thanos wanted to be God, then why did he destroy the stones? Was he trying to follow destiny and become God? I just think it weird that he would destroy the stones just like that.
@@twoinsurance2246 He abandoned his true self for his facade of humility. His sacrifice of Gamora pushed him into fully adopting his own lie as the truth.
Thanos has the same motivation, he changes to destroying the whole universe and starting over because he has already seen that his original plan fails due to the avengers undoing it. By erasing only 50%, there is a chance that those who survive could undo it again, thus he changes his motivation. Also time travel wasnt built in one night, with Tony talking to Scott when they first go to him seems he has already looked into it which was why he dismissed them so quickly with it. He also didnt try 1 equation and get it right, the only equation we see is the right one but there is dialogue you seem to have missed to explain that. Time travel wont really matter moving forward BECAUSE of the way they explained it. Changing the past WILL NOT change the future, they lose a fight, go back in time then win, it doesnt effect the timeline they are from. (Lose in universe 199996 and travel hack to 199995 to redo the fight and win then go back to 199996 that villian and their loss will still be there)
Thanos changing his mind at the last minute about ideals he had built over decades of his life came off as awful lazy writing. Time travel breakthrough was depicted without any struggle or challenge, which made it another example of lazy awful writing. Just saying that the character has been working on it for 5 years only to suddenly figure it out in the next minute does not let you feel that it was that hard. Shit writing. Time travel physics is the worst shit you could do to your movie after it had been established in a singular and linear timeline without indication of time travel prior.
It was not about Avengers undoing the snap. He look at them and saw what they became after the snap, he saw desperation, misery. Look at the Ant-man coming back and whole first act. Survivors are affected years after the snap. Everyone is in mourning because everyone lost somebody. Look what happened with Hawkeye when he lost his family. Thanos acknowledges that half of population having such horrific memories about the snap is unable to move on. So he wants to kill everybody and build his own world in which there would be no knowledge about the snap.
@Super JLK I think Tony and Steve's search of Pym Particles happened since they're desperate. They weren't really certain about when the Pym Particles exist in the older timeline since none of them exist that time. One wrong guess or failed attempt and resulting Tony and Steve trapped in the past forever and the whole time heist plan failed. And I believe none of them expects one of the stones disappeared so they believe they only need one trip away to get the stones
@@Nimbus3690 Time travel wasnt built over night. In fact all stark really did was create a "GPS" device. The pym particles were the ultimate key as well as discovery of the quantum realm and its opportunities. So no, its not lazy. Its just like finding the final piece of a puzzle thats been going for years. Plus its Tony Stark, i feel like people forget how smart he is supposed to be
If they gave Thanos an extra layer to his personality where he was smart enough to understand that he hasn’t fully won yet which results in him becoming much more strong and desperate then in Infinity war, would of been perfect in my opinion.
yea, it seems he grew complacent. instead of seeing his future and assuming its carved in stone, knowing the Avengers are time traveling should have been a very "oh shit!" moment for him. His entire purpose was at stake.
Oh no instead they just let every female that faced her beat him up, and then he just didn't see the stones were missing when he snapped the fingers? So in Infinity War he was godly strong, it was nearly impossible to make him bleed even, and also extremely smart. He figured out a way to defeat 30+ superheroes in a single day. But in Endgame they threw all of it away by making him a weakass big purple idiot
I . . . I actually really liked the way they did Thanos in Endgame. I didn't see it as a betrayal of his established character so much as a revelation of his true nature. Thanos says he's saving the universe, and I think he believes it, but at the same time his actions don't always *quite* mesh with his stated ideals. He claims to be motivated by mercy and benevolence, but he clearly enjoys messing with people (specifically, he enjoys having total power over others) -- first, when he takes the time to bare-knuckle box with the Hulk (which Maw explicitly says is for fun), and later when he *completely unnecessarily* torments both Starlord and Gamorra, forcing Starlord to have to choose to kill her before revealing that he himself was in control the whole time. My feeling about Thanos is that he's a lot like . . . ***SERIOUS DEATH NOTE SPOILERS*** (Skip to bottom for good, old-fashioned Endgame spoilers) . . . Light Yagami, who claims to be sacrificing himself to make a better world, but in reality is just a psychopathic serial killer with a literal god complex. He uses and betrays the people who trust him without a trace of remorse -- in fact, he pretty clearly enjoys what he's doing, one time going so far as to tell his victim who he was -- just so he could see her reaction when she realized she was going to die. In summary, my impression of Thanos is that he's basically an exaggerated take on an abusive parent figure -- most easily seen by his relationship with his "children," most notably Nebula. He claims to act on others' behalf, to be making the"grown up" decisions that no one else can or will, but *every time* he encounters resistance (with the apparent exception of Gamorra) he reacts with vengeful spite, the hallmark of a bruised pride. So it's hardly any surprise that when Thanos encounters defiance -- in his mind, *ungratefulness* for his salvation -- that he immediately reverts to punishing, stripping down, and rebuilding the universe *just like he's been doing to Nebula all along.* (I promised myself I was done rambling, but I have one thing left to add: this side of Thanos is why he destroys the stones in the first place. He originally thought he would settle for wiping out half of all life, but once he found himself alone with his thoughts he realized that the temptation to keep using them would inevitably be too great. He doesn't destroy them to protect us from some other villain. He destroys them to protect us from *himself.*
I think it also makes perfect sense how he works in endgame- at this point he's seen that he succeeds, he's seen that he can do what he plans to do, what he thinks is right, and from his perspective, he sees everyone else in denial over it, after he gave everything to help them. I mean, sure, past thanos might not have done it yet, but present thanos really did give everything to 'save' the universe. He only needs to do anything at all because they found a way to undo his lifes work, and hes as pissed off as anyone would be if they sacrificed themselves and everyone they loved to save the universe, only to have some idiots decide that they didn't need saving at all and want to doom it all again. As steve says early in the film, the problem is that the avengers just couldn't move on. Thanos' new universe would be one the same as the old, because he genuinely is attatched to it (its why he wants to save it at all), just minus the memory of him killing half of it. And, to get back at the avengers for literally murdering him in cold blood in front of his child, he'll kill earth before he 'saves' the universe. Breaking earth won't cause any problems long term, given it will be re-made in a few days anyway, and everyone on it will be safe, so the fact that he is doing that for enjoyment is both something he understands and ultimately plans to undo.
The best example of Thanos' true character in Infinity War is directly after he beats down the Hulk. When he kills Loki for failing him. Throughout the film, Thanos makes all these claims about how he wants to save the universe, how he's helping people, how he thinks he's being merciful. But in this one moment, we see the true Thanos: A tyrannical madman who derives *physical* pleasure from literally strangling the life out of someone, to the point where it makes him audibly exhale from the endorphin rush. That was *always* the intention.
I've only now just noticed that Thanos looks as if he is about to use the gauntlet (2:21) and it looks as if some power remains within it, but it's actually just stark coming up from underneath the fireplace. Rather cool effect they went for there I must say.
If I remember correctly his reasoning was as follows: "I succeded in erasing half the life in the universe, but you found a way to change that and make everything as it was again (if I let you use the stones). So this time, I will erase all life and create new one that doesn't know what happened or about the stones, so there will be no threat to what must be done to save all life." Not sure if he says it that way, but I only saw the movie once and I think he touches on that before his "render it down to the last atom" thing.
@@optimusprime8609 I've never heard of anyone using the words nut and a beauty in the same sentence. Truly a progressive man that recognizes the direct connection between the 2.
I disagree with your take on Thonos' motivation. I always thought of Thanos in IF as an incredible narcissist, and I think Endgame's Thanos drove home the truth of his motivations.
exactly, also he changed his mind on how to use the stones based on the avengers (post snap) actions. as he said himself it wont work to kill only half of all life. those who knew what it was like before will fight to change it back. so he basically is like well fuck it i have to start everything over so no one knows what was.
I also believed when watching Endgame that it was shedding light on his true purpose which is just to be praised as a god and really he doesn’t care who’s doing the praising
The Illustrator Yar I think that was only to make him more tuff and agressive. They changed his personality and goals to make the fight last longer and be more challenging
At first viewing I thought the same as you, but on second viewing and after this video... don't you think it's weird that a man who carries such a lofty ideal with him for years suddenly changing his mind like that? In other words, there really feels like a disconnect between Inf.War Thanos and EG Thanos
But here is the thing... that doesn't make it any less good. Sure, the slow scene revolved around us seeing the other films and loving the characters.... but this IS a sequel... this is a part of a series... So you shouldn't feel attacked or feel like that's a valid point against the movie. In fact, it's the opposite... it's a strong point of the movie...
it should be noted that thonos's reasons for wanting to destroy the universe are that he realized that no matter how successful he was at achieving his goals, his enemies would cheat and rob him of his victory. So rather than do the exact same thing again, with no guarantee that it wouldn't be undone, he decided to go full psycho and just destroy everything and rebuild it all from scratch. The avengers cheated him out of his destiny and he's pissed about it basically.
@@kingorange7739 Feels like an addendum to me where he will rebuild the universe with the same things but without the ability or want to undo his changes.
King Orange He wanted life to be in balance. If he left half of life, he saw that those who knew what was, that growing imbalance, would try to restore it. Thusly, the logical conclusion is to rip it all away and let life try again with creature that do not know of the excess of the past. It’s different from IW Thanos, but you cannot expect him to react the same. The Avengers are the ones reverting the change that he knows of, what about when others he has no idea exist come? He cannot simply keep bouncing around universes, as even using the stones once(as well as a Stormbreaker to the chest, but I digress) will damage him greatly. Therefore, use them once or twice, finish it, Life is still life, even if it’s different life.
Jaxus R I understand ur logic but don’t forget the Why was just as important as the what. Thanos immediately concluded that universe wasn’t in balance because the Avengers worked to undo what he did. As far as Thonos knew, the universe was in balance.
I have to greatly disagree regarding "thonos" motivation at the end regarding killing everyone and starting new life as oppose to the original objective. During this part of the timeline Thanos is immensely confident in the eventuality that he will collect the stones as is his destiny. He has not yet had the repeated failures to force him to act and be the active, angry self he was in Infinity War, tired of waiting for his destiny. It was a slow build from smiling even though the Shikari lost in Avengers to actively being disrespected in GotG to being an active but not yet open participant when he stole the gauntlet to finally being open and aggressive after too many underling failures in Infinity War (technically Thor ragnarok but its the same moment). Here we have here confident but not yet absorbing much failure. And then he gets hit with an emotional triple whammy - First a positive -Confirmation that he succeeds. Then a negative - not only do the people of the universe not only not respect his decision and sacrifice, but theyre still EVEN AFTER HE WINS fighting to undo his destiny. And then the big one: His Win and his destiny costs him his life. You notice when he sees his death he doesnt emotionally react. He doesnt flinch. He just says "Destiny fulfilled". THAT'S THE MOMENT PAST THANOS CHANGES! He know if he follows the exact same path - the exact same destiny path, destiny fulfilled means his death. He cant give up his dream or a perfect universe. He's too mad for that. So he goes all-in. Now he is active from the start not out of anger, tiredness, frustration --- he is acting out of FEAR. That's why he's acting more like a traditional villian. He sits and watches when the avengers trio arrive cause he now knows THEY HAVE THE POWER TO KILL HIM. So he's careful and watching them approach. He knows the ppl of the universe cant accept one half gone, so he needs to rebuild in the image he wants. But most important to him is the part left unsaid: He wants to live. Thats why the dust scene was so monumental to me. Not only cathartic but thanos in that moment realized he truly lost. Destiny was not his. And now he doesnt even get death, he just no longer exists and he can do nothing but accept it.
That's fine and everything. But the issue is that if Thanos can just create a whole new universe, why can't he just create infinite resources? Or just create another universe and make half of the population move to that universe instead? Like it was mentioned in the Cinemasins video. It completely ruins Thanos' motivation because it makes his more extreme actions in Infinity War and Endgame pointless and obsolete.
@@mlgamings6110 Because he's the MAD Titan. His plan never made sense, he just wanted to be right. He wanted to show the universe that his way is the right one, nothing else. And because he's mad, he thought he was the good guy. When he saw that his oh-so-great plan wasn't working, he decided to give the whole ungrateful universe the middle finger. Very simple. Because it wasn't his fault that the plan didn't work, it was the universe.
Exactly and not only that, "Thonos'" ruthless and over the top cruel demeanor (as well as his design) is actually way more in line with his Comics counterpart than the Thanos in Infinity War... So it may be a weird change for moviegoers but it was a great course correction for us Comics fans...
@@mrZavior biggest issue for moviegoers is a lot people felt a hard time adjusting to the fact that infinity war thanos was the protagonist (protag doesnt always need to be the hero --- his story was who we followed most closely throughout) while past thanos was a support character.
@@Jasmin-lg3gf yeah, I understand that. But that doesn't fix the problem it creates where Thanos is no longer a very compelling villain. I used to actually be very interested in him and even found him somewhat reasonable and that's what made him so interesting. But now it's like, "oh great, another crazy, uninteresting villain."
Now, a second chance at final battle for half of all life in the universe and undoing of Thanos' damage is cheesy, unrealistic and the same times - expected. But, somehow I didn't feel, like it had invalidated first act of the movie. I don't believe would have worked with a bad guy.
After some more thought I wanted to add, that what happens later in the movie is 50% fan service and the 50% is exploration of the same questions as in the first act, but in different situations. The challenges aren't _physical,_ but they _are_ challenges.
Yes, and it would be a great villain in a Woody Allen movie. But an Avengers movie is still first and foremost action, and it needs an immediate threat to push the plot forward. Then the immediate threat can represent grief on a thematic level, but it still needs to be there and be in direct conflict with the heroes. Look at Age of Ultron. I'm not particularly fond of that movie, but it doesn't have the Endgame problem at all: Ultron is both the symbol of Tony Stark's fear AND the giant mass murderer the Avengers have to save the world from.
@@rickblaine9670 Dunno. First two Avengers movies didn't work for me at all. Ultron might've been a symbol of Tony's fear and murderous robot - it didn't help the movie any. At least - for me. For better or worse, Marvel movies aren't just action movies. Instead they branch out into many different genres. Spy thriller? Heist? Coming of age story? That trend would likely continue. Some would like a particular experiment, some would hate it. It's not hard to find people with diametrically opposed views on almost any single MCU movie.
Yeah, his journey was his development in IW, that's why he didn't kill Tony, that's why he fighted with respect. But Thonos didn't see that, he saw that he won and that he died
That's not the point at all tho. You don't have the Villain forcing anything. Then you get the reason which defies all of the logic they spent on the last movie building up by just wiping out everyone and building from scratch rather than just creating more resources so that no one has to die.
Sorry, can't agree with you on this one at all. "Thonos" motivation isn't non-existent. He sees what he achieves in the prime timeline but notices that people, instead of being thankful to their saviour, keep hanging on to the idea of the universe as it was before. That means his plan was flawed from the beginning. "Thonos" can see that now. Basically, he is addressing what people have been debating about after Infinity War - whether his plan made sense or not, that halving the population of the universe would only make for a temporary respite, that making more resources would lead to further population growth, exacerbating the problem, and so on. "Thonos" gets this now. He notices that the plan as it was brought misery over the universe because people do not simply adapt and move on. So he goes for the "clean slate" approach. Wiping the whole universe out and recreating it in a controlled manner. He'd become the "intelligent designer" of a universe without flaw. Literally God. He puts it "A grateful universe, not knowing what they've been given" and Cap responds by saying "Born out of blood." This time, the plan was foolproof, it would work. But the cost would be the whole of current existence. Also, "Thonos" is still the same as he was up until "Guardians of the Galaxy", his backstory applies to him as well as his IW self. He just finally course corrects, see above. And the fact that the movie doesn't have a villain for two hours I can agree with, but not that you think that devalues it. It's dealing with the consequences of Infinity War. Thanos' work is done, killing him changes nothing. He doesn't need to be alive for the Avengers trying to fix the universe. It's practically the same as the ending of Watchmen, where the Crimebusters arrive too late to stop Ozymandias' plan. It's already done, now everyone has to live with it.
I agree with you on the thonos part...It's a new better plan... And I've only watched the movie once so far but I now think that the "dullness" of the first and Second act might be a way to convey how everyone in that universe is feeling. Lost, alone, without enough willpower to do anything...it might just be a flawed movie planning but it could also mean that the movie watcher is supposed to get into that specific mind set... At least in my opinion... But I must agree with filmento on the rat... That really was a rather cheap way out...there were so many fan theories which would have been so much better... And could have easily been explained if you offered some of the time they spent on "dull" scenes to it.
@@mmjf674 You don't think in five years time in a warehouse, a rat could happen to sit on a button that turns on the quantum tunnel? Five years is a long time, I didn't think it was too illogical.
@@TheSixthDoctor ita not illogical. Its just not cinematic...and I kinda expected more... But sure in can happen...that wasn't the problem. Just after all the fan theories it seemed anticlimactic
@@mmjf674 Why does a rat setting Scott free by bumbling over some controls need to be cinematic? It's a stroke of pure luck in a desperate situation and it sets off the plot for the movie. This is setup, the end battle and Hulk and Tony being able to snap everyone back into/Thanos' army out of existence is the cinematic payoff.
@@TheSixthDoctor Yeah the solution works...from start to finish and it did take five years for a rat to relase Scott by accident. It's just it wasn't satisfying for me.... Its totally fine if it was for you. Like I said....fan theories had kinda hyped my expectation of the thing... But then it was by sheer luck...I don't know. For ME it would have been cooler if it had been sth about the quantum realm or sth that is not obvious from the very start...but that's just a personal opinion..
@@joejitsu034 I agree. The whole point of The Hulk is that his power grows as he gets angrier, but he also loses control. Bruce is the brain, Hulk is the brawn. Once Bruce learns to accept his anger and gains control of the Hulk he is supposed to be at his strongest, but he does nothing in Endgame. Tony is the brains, instead of Bruce. And Antman is the gigantic brute strength instead of the Hulk. Whereas in the comics Hulk literally gets strong enough to destroy planets with a punch, in Endgame he might as well not be there.
He is his own personality though. He's like Bruce but much, much more optimistic and confident. Watch the scene where the ancient one astral projects him back to Bruce, he completely changes
"Why can't they just go back into the past and fix it?" This was explained in the movie. Going back in time doesn't change YOUR time line, your past has already happened. Instead it creates a new timeline entirely. Endgame worked because they didn't go back in time to kill Thanos before he could snap, they went back in time to get the stones so they could reverse the snap. SPOILERS AHEAD This is why Black Widow's death is permanent. They can't just go back and stop her once they beat Thanos, she's already dead.
I suppose they could go back and take Widow back to the future with them, but A that's assuming she'd willingly go and B it'd create a new timeline where they never got the soul stone, creating a new universe doomed from the start. "We don't trade lives, cap."
No they couldn't do that in the first place. Once you take an action it is your past and you can't change that. Which is why Loki escaping didn't cause further issues, he is in a new timeline where he escaped. Going to where Natasha went to stop her would only prevent the reverse of the snap and create another timeline where they failed to reverse the snap.
In fact filmento said immediately afterwards why they can't go back and change everything in the future... Because of branching timelines, the past you change won't be your own. He says cop out, I say elegant solution.
I'm personally not a fan of multiple time lines. I never have been. But, the multiverse has been around d for a long time. I just kind of hoped they'd never bring it to the MCU. For me it lowers the stakes when a character dies. For instance, we really did lose Gamora but now we just have a new one. Im personally not a fan of that. Im much more of a fan of time travel as it is used in Tenet and Harry Potter where you interact with your own time-line.
Well, there were visible models of space-time on his holo-display, indicating that despite how dismissive outwardly he was of the idea, when Steve and Nat came, he still tried. There's thing called rumination, that causes people to overthink things over and over. While creating an internal appearance of "thinking hard about an issue" it can make people's minds run in circles. Tony might've been on the right track all along, but his doubt and obsessiveness had been holding him back. And then Scott Lang comes in and gives him hope.
Sure “Thonos” isn’t as cool as the original we saw in Infinity War, but I think that’s intentional. In IW we stuck with thanos in his journey where he develops in several ways: one being how he realizes the faults of his ways as an uncaring parent to gamora (when she explains how she hated every day living with him but he never realized it) and another being how he learns to go after the stones himself because waiting for others got him nowhere. We see a wiser thanos in IW, where he had to fight and sacrifice to achieve his goal, grounding him and humbling him in some twisted way. In Endgame, thanos is younger, more naive, without the extreme sacrifices made in IW. He sees the future and cannot nearly understand himself because he did not go through it yet. So yes I don’t think he’s as fleshed out in Endgame but it just proves the character study of himself that was Infinity war and how it was a pivotal moment in his development toward his ultimate goal. He understands true sacrifice in IW and how everyone must sacrifice for a better world, but in Endgame he does not understand yet, ultimately seeing his future “win” as confirmation that he can be a god, with his younger self feeling that he can destroy like he’s done so many times before.
Correct, but it still doesn't change the fact that he makes for a less compelling villain compared with IW Thanos. It makes sense within the narrative they chose, but it's ultimately a weaker narrative when they're defeating Thanos before he levelled up and developed as a character. It's like killing Hitler as a baby, it makes sense within a story about time travelling to stop the big bad, but the narrative of a conflict between the time traveller and a baby is a lot weaker with the victory also feeling like cheating to a certain extent. Obviously this EG Thanos isn't a baby but he is an inferior, less compelling version and his army of mooks that were already defeated once in IW doesn't make up for that fact.
Lee Moffat I definitely agree with that. I guess my point was just that filmento continued saying it was not the same thanos in Endgame, but never truly addressed why in his analysis, almost blaming it solely on poor writing. I do wish they gave Endgame thanos a bit more development to make him more compelling, maybe even a different arc than infinity war’s.
Thonos wanted to destroy the universe because he saw that people weren't grateful after Thanos "saved" the universe. Thonos was in rage and wanted to kill the people who hurt Thanos, other than that he didn't really have a goal
Once again, problem with that is its contradictory to the outlook IW Thanos had. IW Thanos perfectly understood why people were opposed to him, and he was prepared to potentially die for his mission. Whether or not people appreciated what he did was irrelevant. Because at the end of the day, if it created the result of saving them. They would understand. At least that’s what Thanos thought. Also he based his judgment off of 10 people who were already enemies to him. So makes little sense
@@kingorange7739 he knew ppl would oppose him, but he didnt expect ppl 2 go so far as 2 invent time travel 2 undo his plans. That showed that ppl would reject his gift and just return 2 normal, not moving on like he wanted them to. This made him decide 2 scrap his plan and just reform the universe instead
@@whateveriwant6985 once again, he may not had expected the lengths. But he was prepared for those to oppose him, to try to undo his plan. And given that only 10 people tried it makes no sense for him to make a judgment call on the entire universe over the actions of 10
@@kingorange7739 those 10 represented the universes desire 2 undo the snap. And the fact that only 10 ppl had that big of a chance of fucking his plan over completly is enough 2 show that his plan wont succeed. Assuming he didnt feel threatened by them, lets say he just let them do their shit and he just didnt go 2 the future. His timeline would play out relativly the same and he'd win only 2 have the avengers kill him l8r and undo his plan. By going 2 the future he hoped 2 make his plan permanent, by killing those 10 and also any1 else who might stand against him in the universe. Because if 10 randoms could overcome him like this, whos 2 say there rnt plenty more out there who would do the same as these 10? He cant risk that, so better 2 just reshape everything rather than put his trust in the idea that the universe would just roll with his plan
@@whateveriwant6985 Except he doesn’t have to do either. Assuming he kept the stones and stayed out of reach. Kill the Avengers and if he has to, do a mind wipe of the survivors
I fully disagree on this. the “villian to overcome” for the first part of the movie is the crushing grief and regret created by the snap, even while during the time heist.
On the motivation of Thonos at the end its still in line with what he's always wanted,to build the universe in his own image one where life is preserved instead of the sentiment of living hence he makes it a point to mention the leftovers remembering. He takes matters in his own hands when he realises that everyone he's ever tasked with gathering the stones fail,including the black order in Infinity war,thus he realises that the obstacle was never the Avengers but them still being alive long enough to see him reach his goal
You forget, the reason that Thanos destroyed the stones was because there was already a villain: The Avengers. To him, they were the one thing that would destroy everything he had worked so hard to create.
That is true, but the issue is the time he does it, aka within a couple of days before they got there. Why doesn't he directly do it after Infinity War? Was it because he wasn't sure what to do? If so, how come he didn't immediately think that with the infinite power of the stones he could destroy simply destroy them? Was it because he feared something from the planet and wanted to be safe enough? Was it because he was required to wait either because the stones didn't have enough power, or he had to follow a vision? Was it because he just forgot and was like "oh shit, I should probably destroy the Stones today otherwise I'll forget again and it'll be too late"? It's a minor thing that does cause a significant enough issue similar to the rat.
@@TheDiscusserOriginal Considering how powerful the snap is and how the gauntled had been damaged from it, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume Thanos rested and got his energies back before doing the second snap to avoid dying from destroying the stones.
@@TheDiscusserOriginal it is addressed look at what it did to him the first time, the glove when they kill thanos and what it did to hulk and tony, are you stupid?
@@freakyguyonthewall It is not addressed why Thanos breaks the stones 2 days before they get there. Filmento literally pointed that out. If you're going to be toxic, at least get your facts straight.
He destroyed the stones to keep himself from giving into the temptation to do whatever he wanted to do with them. When you can do almost ANYTHING, you'll be tempted to do a lot.
@@guywithaface887 But wouldnt that only buy time for the Life. Population can expand so much, just look at how much Earths Population did grow in just the last 100 or 50 years. This whole Action of thanos will buy life only maybe a few hundred years or less and they will be at the same Point where it all startet.^^
@ I love how benevolent and selfless people love to act on the internet, like they're the best thing since Jesus. Me, I'd want my own planet with millions of hot ass alien bitches from every race, lots and lots of good food, music, the most comfortable bed in the history of the universe, and a universal internet service. That's what I can think if right now. Everything else comes after.
more like the poorly thought out writing was trying to give him some sort of depth without thinking of how incredibly stupid they were writing him out to be.
You missed the setup of his motivation completely. He said, they were ungrateful and would always try to bring it back to the way it was. So he would prevent the possibility of a hero as he killed every who would remember. It's actually really similar to the logical train of thought of generals razing villages in battle.
@@rilluma if half are alive they’ll remember and try to undo even if the avengers where defeated whoosh to say another group of heroes won’t try again to stop this hell destroy everything and create new people (obviously less than before) it makes senses
Big fan of the channel, but I couldnt disagree with you more here. We get a brilliant opening act to the second part of a two partner that is entirely focused on character, and the theme of this video is essentially "first act bad." There are plenty of Bays out there, filling flicks with mindless action. I saw Endgame in theatres 4 times, and LOVED the opening hour every single time.
Try not to look at the "Thanos vs Thonos" problem as a flaw, but as a feature of the story that shows Thanos' real colors. Actions Thonos takes in Endgame reveal the true motivation Thanos had in Infinity War. Infinity War tricked us by giving Thanos the role of a protagonist. We bought into his narrative about balancing the universe because of this role. Thonos in Endgame reveals that this motivation was a lie. Thanos actually wanted a gratitude - even in Infinity War, he says he just wants to "watch the sun set on a grateful universe". He wants to be a savior for enacting HIS plan. He might have fooled us - and he is probably even fooling himself into believing his lie about ballance, but it is only about himself. That is revealed in Endgame, where he sees that his plan did not make him into a savior, that it only made people despise him even more - with Avengers being the ultimate symbol of this. That is why he is angry and ruthless, that is why he wants to destroy the universe and create a "new universe, teeming with like, that knows not what it has lost, but only what is has been given - a *grateful universe* ." That is actually the whole quote he gives in Endgame which was cut short for this video - and I think it reveals everything. He does not care that it is born out of blood, because his intention, his **real** intention was never about saving lives - it was just a lie, masking that he, the megalomaniac he was, wanted to become an admired savior of the universe. And I believe that this lie which convinced not only himself, but all the viewers in Infinity War makes him a compelling character even though he ends up abandoning it by the end of his arc.
this is exactly what I was thinking, when Thanos from the past sees that his goal was achieved he becomes cocky and believes even more that he is destined to be the savior of the universe.
I think it would become too messy too, too many things going on at the same time. Doctor Strange did say it was an extremely small chance that they would succeed and win over Thanos, so it makes sense some things would seem slightly random I suppose
I feel like the character moments in the second act should have been done way better if they didn't have time for a secondary villain such as Red Skull. Since character moments were what they were aiming for, they should have made it as intense as a normal drama.
If there was a new, smaller, villain the movie would take an entirely different direction. He's suggesting that a smaller villain would make the plot seem less random by giving reason for the random things to happen. Its not really a comparison of this movie to this movie with a vaillain, its a comparison if this movie and another theoretical movie entirely.
I think you’re being harsh on “Thonos”. He still has Thanos’ mannerisms and goals. You didn’t even mention the part where he didn’t even flinch at his own death because he was so proud that he had completed his mission. I will agree though the film lacked a villain in the first half but they still had a clear big problem that they had to deal with. The phantom evil idea sounds kind of cool but i feel like it would best fit as they start gathering the stones, which is still like an hour into the movie without a villain
@@kingorange7739 He literally did. And something Filmo didn't seem to get is that Thanos' ("Thonos") deciding to destroy the universe itself is 100% *in-character*. He believes that he is the Arbitur of the Universe, so HE must be the one to fix it.
@@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim once again it isn’t. Wiping half of life was done to prevent all life from Dying off. “If life is left unchecked, life will cease to exist.” Thonos literally was doing the very thing Thanos was working to prevent out of spite against 10 Avengers. IW Thanos was never like this and wouldn’t had done it. So no it’s not in character in the slightest.
@@kingorange7739 I disagree. the 50% thing was a solution only if the universe accepted it. It didn't. It is futile to try saving something that doesn't want to be saved. Thonos saw something different needed to be done. He wanted to create a new universe, because the current one would just go back to its default state and kill itself anyway if he left it the way it was.
I actually like Endagme Thanos because it reviews the "true" nature of Thanos...he's insane. All his philosophy, all his martyrdom all of it is in service of a goal do fundamentally "wrong"
Only problem I have with Endgame is they can/could've saved *everyone* with their own rules... Time Stone Stark, push time through Cap and Time Heist everyone else back to our timeline... That and the Old Cap makes no sense.
@@KrazyStargazer nah.. Just one circle.. lol. Wasn't that hard to see the problems and the rat isn't even top 10 for me. Doesn't mean I don't like the movie... just have to keep rewatching it to keep liking it.
@@nixuniverse5240 He would want to take the Stones away to prevent any more damage from happening, just how he took the Ultimate Nullifier away from Richards. Besides, he isn't more powerful than the stones combined, remember Thanos owned him and several other cosmic beings in the original infinity war comic.
Fight Commentary Breakdowns With all due respect, I think that Adam Warlock would have been a _reasonably_ better option (Especially considering that they *_literally_* put him in the story _right_ before infinity war.) but that makes sense too.
4:59 Actually there is a reason because Thanos says that the stones were nothing byond temptation as he only needed them for the snap and he also destroyed them so his snap couldn't have been undoon
@@Mars30999 Yeah! I think he's saying that he could've destroyed the stones immediately after use back in Infinity War, so why did he wait exactly 2 days later?
I disagree that the first act moving so slowly is a problem. It actually illustrates how their failure in Infinity War has left all of them adrift. Tony Stark isn't Tony Stark - as he says in his final line, he IS Iron Man. Steve Rogers IS Captain America - when he's not throwing his shield, kicking ass and taking names for the cause of something greater, he's just the Man Out of Time. The first act of Endgame hits home not because we love these characters and give it a pass, but because we love these characters and hate to see them broken. It's not what we came for; it's not why we've bought tickets for ten years. It's illustrated so well in Black Widow's hologram conference call when Okoye is just like "Nat, it's an earthquake." Romanoff needs something to do, a world to save, someone to help. She's always had a mission, and now she doesn't. Hulk we see as some character growth for Banner, but what is he, really? He's a mascot for kids, "Hulk out" as a motto. He's sitting in a cardigan at a diner. What has Banner the scientist done in the last 5 years in studies on gamma radiation or whatever? Nothing. What has Hulk done? There's no enemy to fight. It's all empty and lame. It's trying to laugh when the tone is so depressed. It is perfect. For 45 minutes, an Avengers movie is a character movie without an enemy, but with an antagonist - themselves, their nature, their hurt. It's watching Lady Bird, who is just a girl finding herself at the end of college; it's Next to Normal, where a mother's depression and schizophrenia is breaking down the home. Endgame is a movie of failure, and at the end, triumphing over that failure, at terrible cost.
Michael Harrell : Beautifully said. This critic wants Endgame to also be Thanos the movie. It reminds me of the Hulk Fan boys who hated Infinity War because Hulk got beat up in the beginning of the film and then refused to fight. The answer to this - is that IW is about Thanos quest for the Gauntlet - it’s not about the Hulk. A good critic has to understand what a film is actually about, and then assess on that basis. EndGame is really the complete character arc of the 6 OG Avengers more than anything else, but note that this entire forum is 99% focused on Thanos, because that’s what the critic focuses on. That’s not good criticism.
I’m sorry man, but i just can’t get down with this critique. i) the ‘two days’ bit The fact that thanos used the infinity stones ‘two days ago’ doesn’t have to be connected to anything, and I don’t see how one could argue it should. Not every occurence needs to be connected to a major plotpoint. That thanos used the stones ‘two days ago’ simply could mean that... that’s when he finally got around to it. It’s a valid explanation. He has all the time in the universe now to do whatever he wants, why should he rush it? And he’s already achieved his goal, why keep around the stones? What use does he have for them, given the context of his ideology and what he knows from his little retreat and farm? Wouldn’t keeping them _only_ present the risk of some new villain coming after him? Why would Thanos want to risk dealing with that? ii) No villain This isn’t an issue. Trying to cram a villain into the first parts of this movie would only serve to distract from the main point of that part: to give characterization and humanity to the various characters so that their arcs can actually be satisfactory. Not everything needs to be some grand ‘superhero’ moment, and i can only imagine how much weaker thor’s regaining of confidence would be if, instead of having time to talk to his mother one last time, he had to fight a villain and hurry on out. Sure, one could say ‘he should regain confidence by saving his mom from the villain!’ But that’s been done to death so many times in so many movies. Why does everything need to be resolved in a big fight? Why can’t our characters just have human bonding moments? I remember that scene with thor and his mother - would i be able to say the same about just another fight? iii) the rat This one is in my opinion a better complaint, but i still think it was set up. Dr, Strange did give a ridiculously small chance that the avengers would beat thanos - maybe this was it. iv) a ‘worse’ thanos The claim that ‘everything about thanos died when his head was cut off’ is quite literally true. The thanos pulled from the past is quite literally a different thanos, and honestly, that’s nice. I see no way (sorry) that our new, cautious type thanos would’ve lost to the avengers, and this lazy ‘you do it’ attitude is quite literally what past-thanos was. It’s inconsistent plot-wise to have him be his infinty war self. I think this also gives the scenes more emotional stake. That exchange between Scarlet and Thanos, displayed in this video in a way meant to highlight the problem with Thanos’s lack of a connection, really highlights why it’s not that bad. This man who they hate so much doesn’t even give a crap about them. Most of avengers will also never truly get their payback - their chance to avenge - on the Thanos who they despise so much.
But if he destroys the stones (as seen in the movie), no one is able to reverse it. The only way they could reverse the snap was a time travel gimmick, which doesn't make for a compelling story in my opinion.
Everett M the time travel is what made the movie such a compelling finale to me. Im not a massive marvel fan, but being able to go back and see some of these scenes i recognized was great entertainment to me.
@@andreshipp6212 you can see how messed up thanos is after using the stones once, and how frail and weak he looks after using it twice. im sure we can pull up a lot of "what if" stories but thats after the point, everything said in the video is true but I dont think I personally would chance it. yes thonos as a flat villain and yes I can think of 100 reasons why is that, but the main point was that he is a flat villain.
Right, he sees how much misery he actually caused (the sun certainly didn't set on a grateful universe) with his halving plan so instead of re-evaluating his life goal (and shitty Malthusian philosophy) he doubles down on his genocidal ideal.
@Super JLK You can't change the way a sociopath thinks. Thanos used people dying from a lack of resources as an excuse to do killing. He kills people who he doesn't love or that have no use for him. Thanos is egotistical socipath that enjoys killing people. I believe after killing so many people he got tired of doing it and wanted to retire but he couldn't stand people living their lives without them being grateful of him since no one was grateful of him before when he lived on Titan. When the 2014 Thanos saw his future self succeed but then killed he believed no one in the universe would be grateful of his plan so he thought killing everyone and then making a new universe would make people grateful. Overall 2014 Thanos is somewhat similar as 2018 Thanos but Thanos was just like fuck it no one will be grateful of what I did so I'll make new universe and then they will.
For some reason i really liked the first part of endgame because i found it interesting to see the aftermath of infinity war. Like so many movies show some drastic changes to their world but then dont actually show its consequences even a bit. It was simply refreshing to see all the pain and emptiness the remaining people experienced and it also made me connect more to them than just your usual scene of someone dying and people having the big sad for 2 minutes.
Hey, usually you have great analysis but in this video I feel there are a lot of points you made that I think are pretty weak. Like saying Thonos looks different? He’s not bluer, he’s just in an environment with different lighting. Thanos’ motivations were never selfless in nature, in the end he was a self-serving creature, therefore when you tried to point out Thonos acting a way Thanos wouldn’t, I couldn’t help think that was exactly what his character would do. If anything the big discrepancy is that Thonos is not as powerfully motivated as Thanos. Thanos’ plan to destroy the stones WAS to stop someone from getting them, but it was the heroes, not a new shoe-horned villain. Furthermore, I think it’s silly to say the first part fails in part due to a lack of villain. The biggest problem was the pacing, but the weight of that part of the story was the emotion behind it. How these broken people have been coping and failing. The first section was setting up the following story, and I think adding an arbitrary villain would ruin that. Additionally, I don’t think adding random chance into a story is necessarily a bad thing? It’s only really an issue if it distracts from the story, ultimately. If it personally distracted you? Okay, fine, that’s understandable. But random chance is a thing that happens in real life and I think especially in a story where our heroes are fighting against death itself having a couple things work out in their favor isn’t the end of the world. I feel you could likely point to many instances of this happening in other movies in the MCU library that worked just fine. Now don’t get me wrong, I do believe there are some flaws with Endgame and I’m open to hearing why people think it could have done better. But I don’t think you argued your points very well. Most of these felt like things I’d hear from a cinemasins video.
Random chance(specifically hulk hitting Tony causing him to lose the teseract) is just stupid. Literally no logic or reason, just for the writers to say, hey, have this Loki spin off. Thnx. It's lazy, and there's no way anyone would forgive it if it weren't Marvel. Imagine DC doing that, the world would have ridiculed it for years. Some films have the message that life is random. In that case, random things happening works. If not, it doesn't. Just lazy writing. I agree that new thanos motivation and stuff "makes sense". But the fact is this: Endgame would've been a lot better if they just continued with the Thanos storyline everyone already fell in love with.
its okey to have random chance at times, but when random chance drives your whole movie then you fucked up, most of the things you listed are your own opinions and references, when critiquing a movie youre suposed to be objective, there are righ and wrong ways of doing movies regardless of personal opinions, youre just letting your personal opinions gover your crteria here, objectively endgame its a badly done movie with an entertaining third act, objectively infinity war its a great movie. thanos did look diferent, probably due to the CGI quality. and i guess you got a point about it being the thanos of the past and thats why he behaves diferent, the one that sit and waits, but still he was badly handled, his scenes should have given us a more indepth look to the thanos we got in infinity war since hes already dead and we cant get any more exposition from a corpse, thonos should have been a walking backstory for inifinity wars thanos, as in he should have been a little more than a statue for the entire movie, maybe have some dialogues here and there that make you think "damn, this guy is right again". i agree on your point about the arbitrary villiain, but the movie did need a villiain and the lack of it did make the first part boring as heck, personally i would have had thonos find out about the time travel and the avengers plan, but instead of waiting like astatue for shit to get to him, he decides perhaps out of pride after seeing his future self succed and then murdered by some salty losers, that he'll take the satisfaction of destroying those salty losers himself, and so he starts chasing them through time, but since he seems to give a fuck about the balance of the universe, instead of trying to take the stones from them, hes chasing them through time to kill them so that they dont change anything, because for thanos it all works out in the end so he doesnt need to take the stones from their corresponding timelines, he just needs to hunt them down, and while he fucked them up in infinity war, the stakes are diferent here, they know not to go toe to toe with him, and he is forced to excersice caution to avoid altering the timelines, this would create an actual time chase between the avengers and thanos trying to hunt them down, maybe he kills one or two, heavy toll, but for the greater good of bringin everyone back, it would also ad much more emotional weight to the movie.
Plus his nitpicking with the poor rat and how he didn't understand that Tony didn't just invent time travel in a evening, it's the culmination of years of Michael Pym's work and it's implied that the weird shape which i forgot the name of was his 999999th try.
@@nuddle7726 i agree on the iron man part, i mean im the first one to roll my eyes to the back of my skull whenever something iron man related drives the plot, which is 90% of the time in the MCU, but the part with the time machine wasnt iron man just randomly coming up with time travel, it was made pretty clear in the movie that he got the idea from what they discuss after scotts lang return, and while it did feel like he just instantly came up with it, you gotta keep in mind iron man has his own advanced AI, the AI can probably run simulation after simulation in one afternoon, it isnt that far fetched in a science fiction ruled universe, either way time travel story was a terrible choice after the masterpiece that was infinity war. but the fucking rat come on, that was stupid as fuck, anyone could have wrote something more believable, in fact here are some alternatives: - some guy trying to steal shit from the warehouse presses a bunch of buttons my accident while searching inside the van. -the irresponsible caretaker that looks after the warehouse takes his kid sometimes and the little brat plays around with the stuff inside, presses a bunch of buttons and scott is back. -scotts daughter and the " anoying curious friend" trope or whatever are checking on scotts old stuff searching for something, the friend gets on the van and gets curious about the odd looking console, presses some buttons and scott is back. its not hard to come up with less random scenarios, they just got fucking lazy, watching endgame after infinity war makes this pretty clear, they knew people were going to watch the movie because of how great infinity war was, and the movie reeks of it, its still an entertaining movie and the last fight its fucking awesome, but thats about it, i cant even remember most of the movie anymore because of how forgettable most of it is.
Here's the thing: It wasn't a series of random events, it was the one sequence of events chosen by Dr Strange. He looked through every possible option and the only one he could come up with was this super unlikely turn of events where they utterly fail, 5 years passes, the rat wanders across Ant Man's control panel, Tony invents time travel and they Ironinity Gauntlet everyone back in to existence only for Thanos to lose. I don't feel this creates as many problems as I don't really see Endgame as its own movie but rather Infinity War 2: Heroic Boogaloo, but eh. I'm not saying this is the best possible reason it just kinda... it isn't 'random' in the long run. It was Dr Strange's least shitty outcome. A universe where Gamora and Black Widow die permanently, where the entire universe is thrown in to chaos, Loki is freed with the space stone in hand able to cause immeasurable space-hopping havok and that was the BEST possible outcome. Woof.
Same. I think it gave us a lot of good character moments and time to get re-invested in the characters to make their loss more impactful going forward as unlike with the snap in Infinity War, there is no intention of bringing these characters back. There is such thing as too much action at the expense of story and it's something that I feel a lot of modern movies suffer from; that's definitely not the case with Endgame.
I was just bored, plus all these pseudo-philosophical dialogs and motives looked weak and out of place. Maybe if you are a huge fan of Marvel you will be happy just watching these guys doing nothing, but for me, it was just dull.
@@Omgtired why would you watch endgame if you're not a huge marvel fan? I doubt any casual viewer watched all 22 MCU movies, and since it's pointless watching Endgame without watching all the previous MCU movies, it's not for casuals, so yes, the slow dialogs and breaks they had for half of the movie were great, and my favorite parts of the movie.
He destroyed the stones two days ago because he had to destroy them, but first he had to rest because he was too much damaged from the first time he used them.
In defense of the random aspects of Endgame, in IW Strange said he saw more than 14 million outcomes, and only 1 where they could win, therefore the only possible outcome that had all the random events (the rat, etc) happen. It may be lazy writting, but it was established in the previous movie
haha yeah, and as soon as Strange hinted to Ironman that this was that one - the whole sequence of events would then be without real stakes. Does this imply "free will" does not exist in the MCU? ;-)
@@pseudonymousbeing987 Causality works fine in classical physics, in quantum physics not so much. To me, the existence (or non-existence) of 'free will' is undecidable. We can't determine through any kind of experiment whether we have "free will" or just the "illusion of free will". If two things cannot be told apart, perhaps there is no difference to begin with.
He wants to create a new universe because in his mind, he realizes that the Avengers will never accept what he did at the end of Infinity War. This is backed up when he is monologuing before fighting Cap, Iron Man and Thor.
Russell Robertson also if it was just the case of knowing the Avengers were just trying to undo his actions, he could just ummm kill the Avengers and leave the rest of his plan the same. Thanos shouldn’t be saying screw the universe over something a small group of people did.
†ooli C so basically destroying what the IW Thanos was trying to save? No I’m not retarded or in a head canon. I’m taking the info and the movie context that IW Thanos was presented as. Thanos in IW was actively trying to save the universe from overpopulation and a lack of resources. This was because of that happening on his home world. It is established in IW that he only wishes the wipe out half of all life since it would be the only way to save what remained of life. And regardless if he couldn’t predict time travel doesn’t change the fact that he did say screw every being in the universe over something the Avengers alone did.
Yeah... But Endgame had so much good will and momentum behind it that it's weaknesses never really bubble to the surface, in my mind But every point you brought up is absolutely valid
The time travel (so like, the whole second acts) is the worst part of the movie. Boring, no real stakes, just a filler. They could have done so much more.
GhostGamer PL I honestly didn’t see it that way. Seeing everyone prepare to go the past made the movie feel like it had a clear direction again. These scenes both had plot relevance and payed homage to previous Marvel movies as well. And I didn’t feel as though stakes were completely absent either (the whole time in Tony Stark’s tower) but I can see how some might not like the direction taken in some places.
EndGame is an good movie, It is nowhere great as infinity war, It is heavily flawed, I Loved Endgame, But i've always noticed it was pretty much flawed to start with However, I'll note that this film is good for one reason, Because the MCU Existed, Anyone who never saw the MCU ain't caring about Endgame, For them it seems just like an shitty movie, And the snap wans't reversed "too damn easy", They tried to reverse the snap by kiling thanos at first, Then it took 5 years for them to try again However, Here is an big problem The 5 Years, Are yes show, But not properly, In the end, it feels like everything happened within maximum a few days, And other thing to note, Is while the snap happened minimum 2 days ago, Those days also weren't show Without Infinity War, There is no endgame, But the existance of infinity war itself, Makes Endgame worse, Which is ironic
GhostGamer PL Thing is I dont know if they couldve done it any other way. Like I love Endgame, but Infinity war is 100% better. I just dont know how Endgame couldve been done better
The moment Thonos said this is personal to a group of people who he's never met and who just inconvenienced him for an hour, I knew I didn't like Thonos anymore.
He didn't just try to figure out time travel. He was working on it since he got back from earth but didn't figure it out. Scot lang (ant man) told him about quantum space (i think that's what its called) helped him figure it out.Still totally agree with your point
I don't think he was working on it since he came back, so much as he's just a brilliant scientist and he's probably looked into it at some point in his life and come to the conclusion that it didn't work, or was even told by others how and why it couldn't work. He dismisses the Pym Particles because, although neither he nor anyone else had considered them before, it was so settled into his brain as a "fact" that time travel is impossible that he already "knows" that they won't work, but just to be sure he tests it out in his computer and "HOLY SH*T IT WORKS?!" Same with Hulk. I simply assume that the world is filled with scientists who are also nerds who like talking sci-fi amongst themselves and theorising about it, not that Tony was necessarily working on it in that 5 year gap.
1:28 because that's the most scientifically accurate consequence to time travel, according to quantum mechanics. It isn't just "convenient to the plot", it actually makes sense. It isn't just time travel, it's 5-dimensional travel.
Exactly. Let alone that multiverses are a huge thing in comics of both Marvel and DC. BTTF time travel is pretty to look at, but it doesn't make sense. Its end should have 2 Marties. The one in the new future timeline with the rich parents and the old one that travelled in time. The movie treats past Marty as the present Marty. Are you saying that the future timeline stayed frozen until Marty came back from the past?
You are right, but his point still stands in that it does hinder consequences. And it doesn't have to be the way they do time travel. We're talking about a universe where a man was induced with so much Radiation that he lived and became a large green titan strength being. I'm not sure if Science can say that's actually possible, but I don't believe it is. The main point is that although it's scientifically accurate, it doesn't have to be and sometimes shouldn't be.
You really didn’t understand Thanos’s motivations that well. He’s not a saint. We’ve seen him taking over and enslaving planets before. The only reason he wanted to do the snap was to prove to himself that his plan to save his people would have worked. So when he sees from his future self that the snap ultimately won’t work, he decides that the only way to make the world better is to destroy everything and start over. Thanos never cared about the individuals. If he did, he never would have gone through with his original plan in the first place.
The issue is that if Thanos can just create a whole new universe, why can't he just create infinite resources? Or just create another universe and make half of the population move to that universe instead? Like it was mentioned in the Cinemasins video. It completely ruins Thanos' motivation because it makes his more extreme actions in Infinity War and Endgame pointless and obsolete.
@@ArifRWinandar Honestly this refit fixes a big chunk of his motivation. Nothing like a villain's obsession being "well I'm not WRONG though, see" and making the same mistakes over and over again.
Bruno Moreno it’s a 3 hour movie. I don’t want to see Tony struggling for 3-5 mins just to make it seem “hard” how he figured it out. This is why the quantum realm was set up in the 1st Ant-Man movie (2015).
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
To anyone who had to see that thumbnail... I am sorry. It took on a life of its own.
my poor eyes. What have you DONE Filmento!
Damn, Thonos looks "amazing"
CURSED
I don't understand why they didn't use Adam warlock
They couldve use him as a villian
The plan of "THONOS" actually makes sense if you really think about it. Thanos was under the belief that he alone was needed to correct the universe, that he was the only one with the will to do it and he was under the assumption that doing the same thing for everyone would lead to his ideal outcome. Thanos is basically the personification of authoritarianism and like most authoritarians throughout history once "Thonos" sees that there are people who his plan did not work for his conclusion is not that his plan was flawed it was the people what were flawed and needed to be fixed. Rather than coming to the conclusion that he was wrong he now feels that he needs more violence to beat everyone into submission and act how he wants them to. From that perspective the plan of Thonos does work, he is simply doing what he sees as the next logical step after his first plan failed. The mistake of Thanos and Thonos is having a one size fits all plan for a universe of individuals rather than taking a step back and thinking if it is the right thing to do.
“This Thanos just sits back and lets other people do the work”
Remember how it took until 2015 for him to say “Fine, I’ll do it myself”?
Exactly, lets not forget that this version of thanos really liked sitting in chairs all the time
Yea thats the problem
You have to credit the MCU for unintentional continuity.
I dont think this is a case of poor continuity. It probably was in Thanos' character to let his minions do more of the work, until he started aquiring the stones, by that point, he became more involved in the process directly.
Thanos had to wait until 2018 to retrieve the stones because he couldn't go after them until they were all in plain sight, and with the events of Ragnarok and the destruction of Asgard and Odin, it was time.
*sees thumbnail*
*WHAT HAVE YOU BROUGHT UPON THIS CURSED LAND*
the current one is Thanos mixed with Will Smith from Shark Tale.. was there a different one?
th-cam.com/video/tJRHluWtO30/w-d-xo.html
Fans: What’d you do?
Filmento: I put Rat ears on Thanos head
@@mr.t-rex3113 dont forget the large teth
It's not his weirdest one
Instead of the Rat accidentally walking on the perfect combination of buttons to release Scott, they should have had Luis come looking for the van, get it out of impound, and he be the one gets it open and releases Scott. They missed a perfect opportunity to let Luis explain to Scott what all had happened in his signature style.
That is a Genius Idea, how did the Directors didnt thought of that
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 cause he got snapped
@@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214 and why would you even look for a van after just 5 years later
@@iamfriendly6483 idk im not a Writer the Writers of the Movie could Come up with a Reason
Damn this is genius but why would it take luis 5 years to find it
So Dr. Strange saw that one rat and was like "THIS IS THE ONE FUTURE!"
Yup I guess it was the only option, the fate of the world rested on a rat.
I recommend watching "The Rat That Beat Thanos!" from Film Theory, it can make you scratch your head for some time.
Even a rat can make a difference. You don't have to be gods.
The Butterfly Effect I guess
Yeah, ok, but Thanos with an ‚A’ is also a Dum-Dum?
People analysed his Original Plan with the ‚Snap’ and realized: Oh, what a Dum-Dum.
A mouse saved the Marvel heroes
You can’t get more meta than that
Propaganda at its finest???
huh..
You could say it redeemed itself by saving more lives than it plagues
OOOOhhh.. wow. I finally get it.
@@snowtrick2907 lol
EndGame's Biggest Flaw for me. Hulk never had his Rematch with Thanos. We could've had Stoneless Thanos vs a Unafraid Hulk.
Yeah that was a real missed opportunity.
Fucking YES
For me it was showing the resolution of Banner and Hulk freaking off-screen! That was one of the bigger plot points of Infinity War and they were just like, "Oh, they worked it out. No big deal."
Hell, just showing that, even in flashback, would have been a perfect setup to a Thanos rematch.
Hulk wasn’t actually afraid though, he hated being used. Hulk doesn’t fear overwhelming opposition he would fight until death. Any way, research it, there is a lot online and here on YT about it as many including I thought what you did.
Thanos didn't use the stones the first time and professor hulk is weaker than regular hulk. He would've held another L
I honestly like the fact that the “real” Thanos died after completing his mission. It made things feel real when Thor killed him and it didn’t change anything. It was simply a meaningless revenge kill.
If you think about it, the real Thanos remains undefeated. The Endgame Thanos is to him what Ben Affleck's Batman is to Christian Bale's Batman.
@@mmtigan no he didn't. Avengers found a way to undo everything again, making his actions meaningless.
@@МаксимК-я4ы His actions were meaningless anyway. They brought back the missing population in 5 years. At a normal breeding rate it would have taken about 50 years to double the population again which is still nothing. He was an idiot. But he won.
@@МаксимК-я4ы the avengers didnt undo everythint
It had a huge cost
They didnt brought back back widow, real gamorah, loki, angry hulk and didnt managed to save tony stark
The avengers were heavily crippled in this movie
at the cost of a far less compelling, 2 dimensional villain
Thanos:"I finally erased half living things in the universe out of existence"
Rat:"I'm about to end this purple man's dream"
Ultron: Life, life always finds a way
Its what we do
OnLy OnE oUt Of 14 MiLlIoN fUtUrEs WhErE wE wIn.
and it involves a totally random rat
Loki: Surprise
Jeremy Lim well it took 5 years to get the rat to press the button
It would have been better that Stan Lee's Cameo in Endgame was him being a janitor with a rat pet that casually left it next to the Van where antman was trapped. That would have given Stan lee a plot weight and would have hint him as the ONE-ABOVE-ALL
That would have made a lot of sense
That still lazy writing
Err.. no, that stinks
@@Jose-se9pu is it really worse than what we got thought?
@TurtleO’Confusion the implication is that Stan Lee Would have been hinted as the One Above All. Imagine that at the end of the scene, he vanishes. It wouldn't be just someone's pet, but a cosmic entity disguised as a janitor that is taking care of the snap in an indirect way.
Could be random, but I love how Ant Man as the one who carries the story forward. Giving the team the idea of they having a chance
holyfreak86 I love the contrast. Ant Man’s movies are more light-hearted and fun. Yet from those movies, it introduced the thing that helped save the universe.
@@canvas_125 and it surprised me. Everyone tought thar Captain Marvel would be the key player here... and she wasn't! Ant Man was. I think Spider Man will be in the front of the MCU from now on. Those movies don't have other heroe as important as him
He is nitpicking. That car was in the yard for 5 years at minimal. As half the people disappeared, people ain't buying cars anyway. The place was filthy and rats were expected to be around. They would be trying to find food and would stumble in the commands for the time travel machine in the car panel.
@@Willowy13 he is right, endgame is just overrated garbage with lazy writing. A rat saving a superhero? Sounds like a bad fanfiction made by 12 year olds. Bout who cares? Marvel knows that their fanbase are dumb and losers so they will watch anything lol
@@anaccount9574 Oh really? lmao. Okay boss critic. Whatever makes your *ss happy
Maybe thanos took so long to snap his fingers again to destroy the stones. Was simply because he was still recovering from the first snap. Remember “it almost killed me” just snapping once?
The snap that almost killed him was the snap to destroy the stones, that being said, he did have recovering to do after the initial snap, as when he snapped he had an angry viking's sizeable axe lodged in his chest.
@@bobcartwright7476 He healed Stormbreaker's cut immediatly with the Time Stone. You can see that in the Canadian Lad Channel
@Daniel Adams I'm almost positive the reliance on randomness is to echo the thought that everything in our universe is said to have come about by random chance, because you know, Hollywood LOVES pushing their own philosophies and Godlessness on their viewers.
@@brando3342 A real stretch considering that the infinity stones themselves are meant to be artifacts used by some God to create the universe.
Kevin Smarts
Well, okay then. However that makes absolutely zero sense. Also happens to still be against the True God.
Even though the first 1/3 of the movie is "slow", I think it is necessary to see the feel the impact of what happened at Avengers Infinity War. It is not about the action or villain, but the ones that remain behind and our original Avengers. And it is because of this, the rest of the movie is that much more satisfying.
2/3 bro..2/3s of the movie is very slow.
I completely agree how a non villain is supposed to show that life after the snap was supposed to be slow as it is ,technically a sequel.
Exactly
@@ruscul8711 It shows the impact of Thanos as a villain. That's his legacy he left behind. Even after he died, he is still the invisible villain, because of the visible, deep impact he continues to have on the life of those left behind after the snap. Those are the most deceptive and sinister of villains: the one who will exist as a dull, depressing ache, even if they are "removed" from the dynamic.
@@maxborn7400 nah... the directors already said that they are not going to do a back to back movie ever again cause it was taking a toll on them. The story is sloppy and lazy. The russo's did the best job in CA. winter soldier, civil war, infinity war but not this one. i could remove the first 2/3 of the movie, watch it again and feel the same way I watched it first.
5:00 great job with the video, but he destroyed them to avoid temptation. That works, right? Temptation can grow over time
he saw the future and destroyed them to prevent the avengers to take them.
Elucioahr he didn’t see the future if he did he could easily kill them and anyone else that try to undo his effects then destroy them
@@spinozilla2421 or he accepted his fate
Absolute power corrupts absolutely
He said he did it so the snap cannot be undone. I think the directors said using stones made Thanos physically weaker each time he did it. He wasn't in good health after the final battle in Wakanda. Remember Thor hit him. He probably knew that eventually they will find him, so he destroyed the stones.
The whole point in the first half is that nothing is happening, the villain is their grief and guilt. Nothing is meant to happen cause they are hopeless
Well it should be a 30 min segment then....but it went on for almost 2 hrs..which is too long
This vid sounds like a film student preaching formulaic theories. I like it when there is a bit of randomness like in real life. Shows like Rick and Morty is a great example of fresh writing.
No it shows a world that lost the Avengers failed because Thor didn't go for the head of Thanos. Miracles happen in movies all the time but this was more like Doctor Strange's prophecy of that one future that they win: that's how slim it is
I wasted too many hours of my life because nothing happened
@@mop2254 lmao
3:30
I never felt this "slowness" as an issue. To me that felt like it was exactly what they were going for and I appreciated it because it fit the theme of "we lost and don't know where to start to fix it".
Same
The issue is not the slowness but the forced narrative and easy retrieval of the stones(except the black widow and hawkye sequence).
Is it convenient Tony just figures out time travel? Yeah. Is it convenient Nebula just links with her old self? Yeah. Is it convenient that the rat steps on the button? Yeah, very lucky events. The chances must be like, one in a million, or maybe one in fourteen million six hundred and five.
Except had Nebula just traveled to the future as soon as her ship was being pulled up by Thanos it could of avoided an entire third act and the Avengers would still win.
Fourteen million six hundred and five*
"Is it convenient that the rat steps on the button?" yes, if it had happened in the same week as the snap, but it took five years
Too convenient and no pay off
@@Hhhh22222-w I mean the pay off of that action was the entire film
9:45 i think thonos is being very clever here. attracting the most powerful avengers to himself to fight while still undercover nebula find the stones. even thor said its a trap. so i don't think he is doing nothing here.
Yep. This guy is way off on this one.
good point
Except it isn't
No way you rain down fire on them just to have your undercover person go searching for the gauntlet. Raining fire on them to begin with was extremely stupid as he could have just as easily killed undercover nebula. Also how does nebula just link up to a machine she's never seen before and not only know how to go back to that same time stamp but is also able to pull the entire ship through time after they just get done discussing that the suits are important for time travel. Therefore the Ship can't just jump forward without that red stuff which they explain they are completely out of...
But there is no trap
I agree but also disagree. The slowness of the beginning does a great job of showing the impact of the snap.
For some reason it reminded me the ending of "Manchester By The Sea". Atmosphere-wise.
It's perfect amount of dramatic tension after 5yrs being defeated! It makes you as an audience feel the despair & wonder what next?
I saw a comment on another video that said if you were watching Infinity War and Endgame back to back the first hour of Endgame would act as a calming down period from the nonstop action of Infinity War
ah yes, showing the impact of the snap by making the characters slightly depressed and shoehorning in half-assed jokes. Im saying this as a disappointed watcher who had high hopes for Endgame.
Thank you!
the beginning of the endgame is excellent. It is slow. it is empty. This is the best way to show the emptiness that must have felt people living after the snap. It helps us, as viewers connects with the heroes that have survived the snap
Yeah but imagine if they just went and fought him full power with the stones for 3 hours
Nobody was tryna watch them be sad and cry and shit. This is why infinity war was better. Straight action. Beginning to end
I feel you but they really took to long for that, instead they could've summarized a bit more. And still, adding a villain or threat to make them move up wouldn't necessarily take out the part were you see the sad consequences.
They also didn't need to add all that time traveling practice and funny part.
That lost all effect when they started actually working. When the heroes are working, the villain needs to be working.
@@steezyonyoutube9896 That would be stupid
I just assumed it was two days ago because that's how long it took him to recover enough to use them again.
That likely is why. It isn't said explicitly but we see the toll it takes after using. This dude is just ignoring key points to make a video
@@jayw900
What I find funny, as far as im concerned, the toll only came about because they just thought it was at a price. I mean the dang thing is supposed to ignore all rules of the universe yet it nearly kills them? And they *have* to snap for something big?
@@StarterSteel Those are good points. I took it as the stones being very depowered in the MCU as compared to the comics. Godlike power, sure, but in the comics Thanos was a god upon obtaining the stones. Mere thought was made and unmade by his will. They also had the deus ex machina of Adam Warlock which the movies don't have. Or at least, we haven't seen him yet despite being hinted at by GotG 2.
you guys like to write the script for them don't you?
Thanos and Hulk were both very heavily wounded/scarred after using the Stones and in terms of the Hulk he's damn near indestructible.
It goes without saying that for Thanos to be able to use it with mostly superficial damage whilst the Hulk lost the use of one of his arms that he has insane constitution.
To address it directly, yeah give the guy 2 days to recover, I think the only reason it's became a question for many was the lack of clarity on how the gauntlet effects the wielder.
Does it
A) Kill the Wielder
B) Wound the Wielder
C) Make them extra crispy
I feel like the slow pacing of the aftermath was deliberate and depressing.
SuperParkourio It was. That five years will spawn all kinds of complications, miniscule and expansive.
For a start: (1) there will now without a doubt be more focus on cultivating teams of superhumans and all the freak collateral damage that implies. Which will inevitably create conflict, resentment, and paranoia.
Further, (2) searching for and reacting to intergalactic threats, i.e. interplanetary potential collateral damage.
(3), Fucking with the time continuum.
That's not counting the unhinged personalities, personas, and personal vendettas created and harvested by the snap and blipback.
Endgame is a deliberate jump off into messiness. There will be people who love the Avengers for bringing people back - and those who'll hate them and every superhuman/hero after.
By the time (if) mutants (or inhumans) turn up, you'll understand why the first thing people want is superhuman registration, and sentinels.
juanita dark That’s a super interesting prediction for the MCU, and I think it would be an awesome angle for marvel to look at through the films of phase 4 and 5. Given the possibility of a dark avengers movie this would be an awesome lead in for a world that would trust people like Norman Osbourne more than the avengers (obviously they’d have to introduce Norman Osbourne first, but its the perfect time given the vaccuum the death of Tony Stark will have made)
SuperParkourio i think that’s a great way to show Depression in a movie and how they feel like life is just slow
@@harrisont2004 You actually got me excited for Norman Osbourne to appear in the MCU. However, Spiderman is only getting 1 more movie and that completes his trilogy. Plus Tom Holland has confirmed he has 1 more movie left in his contract.
It's implied that Tony had already been working on time travel. I assumed that he had given up on the idea, but his conversation with the Avengers made him try again.
The rat is super convenient. I agree with you there.
You claim there was no real obstacles when they traveled in time, but I very much disagree. You may not like the obstacles they wrote (fair enough that's subjective), but they're definitely there. There is a constant state of anxiety every moment because they're not sure what will happen. They lose the tesseract and have to figure out another way to steal it. As mentioned, Cap had to fight himself, but he also had to figure out a way to grab the scepter from Hydra. He may have solved that obstacle quickly, but it was an obstacle. As mentioned, Clint and Nat had to figure out who was going to die (you brushed past this but that is a pretty big problem to have). Cap and Tony had to get the tesseract and particles out of SHIELD without really knowing the base at all. Nebula's connection with younger Nebula alerts Thanos to their plan (whether you like young Thanos or not, that's a pretty big obstacle). As mentioned, Bruce had to convince the Ancient One to give up the time stone. You made fun of this one, but it's still an obstacle. It may not be as risky or as intense as the other obstacles, but Bruce still had to have a verbal sparring match with one of the world's smartest people. You said, "Oh, he just happened to say the right thing," but did you think it would never come up how Thanos got the time stone? That doesn't seem like a coincidence. Even if it was a coincidence like the rat, it would still be an obstacle. That's a lot of obstacles that supposedly don't exist.
I agree Thanos isn't as good in this one, but I think it's for the opposite reason that you do. I don't think this movie needed a villain at all. That's hard to say because I love the way this movie wraps up, but having a villain is not the point of this movie. Having another villain (or having Thanos be planning something else from the beginning) would be redundant, boring, and take up a lot more time in an already long movie. The whole point of this movie is responding to what the villain has already done. We only need a physical antagonist for the fight at the end. I would argue that this movie DOES have an antagonist all the way through: time. They weren't able to make it to Thanos in time to get the stones back. They had to live in this broken world for five years. They struggle to crack time travel. Going back in time has a lot of obstacles (yes it does ;p), Thanos learns about their plan because two Nebulas are in the same time, and Tony even says at the end "When you mess around with time, it tends to mess back," referring to Thanos arriving and bombing them. To me, Thanos is not as strong in this movie because he is just the physical representation of the metaphysical antagonist. I still wish he was a stronger villain, but I don't think he needed to be more integral to the plot of this movie.
I say all this as a fan of your videos! I'm not trying to be negative, I just wanted to share my thoughts. Keep up the great work man!
Thanks for this comment, I was thinking along the same lines. I do think that maybe the rat is more than it appears, like something connected to a new hero or someone we don't know about yet. I also think the plot could've happened even if ant man hadn't been brought back, because Tony would've still figured out time travel, talked to Pepper, and gone back to the Avengers. For Thanos, they could've done a bit better but I think it was at least somewhat interesting to see the psyche of a younger, more arrogant, and arguably more dangerous Thanos explored.
Great comment, agreed.
TL;DR Yet, I will later on.
No without Antman nothing would have happened. Everyone had accepted the new world and had given up on finding a way to undo it.
A specially Tony. Tony had finally found happiness and peace. From his perspective Antman returning and him figuring out time travel ruined his life.
From a meta perspective on the other hand it gave the character a great conclusion.
So, no. This movie would not have happened without the MCUs lord and saviour a random rat.
Ledor Bloodraven ha ha! I agree, the rat was a bit too important to the plot! 😂
We need a scene of deadpool going around the world solving problems kinda like in deadpool 2, and showing deadpool spraying liquid cheese spray on the button for antman’s van with him looking at the cam saying “you’ll thank me later”
Omg yes! Where were you when they were writing this?!
@@dancingwaterstudios459 🤣🤷🏽♂️
yeahhhh now i really want that to happen lmfaoo
@@dancingwaterstudios459 probably at home cause he has no job or friends or a girlfriend or a life in general
@@ahabduennschitz7670 your name resembles the sound a toilet plunger makes🤡
I have carried on and... the "two days ago" dispute. Thanos was pretty banged up by using them in the first place. He knew that it would take some recuperating in order to use them again in order to not die. Even though it didn't matter if he died or not, the motivation behind destroying the stones was to remove the possibility of undoing what he had done.
He said it on the scene, it was to removing the temptation to use it again for other things, as he had already achieved his goal.
In next year’s Snyder Cut of Justice League, Darkseid will make Thanos look like child’s play.
@@TheVladMan. Doubt it, but I do hope that it is good.
Vladimir Manosalvas IG: TheVladMan nope, zack Snyder’s cur will be uxas whos Isn’t as strong....yet until he actually becomes darkseid
He used the time stone to heal himself there was no reason to wait 2 days
"Thonos is the kind of guy who sits back and lets other people do the work"
Thanos tells Ronan to bring him the Orb (Guardians of the Galaxy)
Thanos tells his disciples to bring him the two Stones on Earth (Infinity War)
Thanos tells Gamora to find the Soul Stone for him (off screen, but still)
Because he's not omnipresent, while his disciples and daughter make the things he commands, he is *also* doing active things. He delegates because he cannot do everyrhing on his own, but he goes for the reality and soul stone and fight the Avengers actively.
@@PalomaNV also Thanos has been just sitting and telling other people to do his work for years before Infinity War. This Thonos is the same Thanos from other movies, before he grew tired of just waiting and seeing others failing, then deciding to do things himself and starting Infinity War. It's not like Thanos had never been just waiting and commanding from a distance.
Hans Ruppelt exactly this is pre “fine I’ll do it myself” thanos
He also sends loki to get the Space Stone
Thanos practices delegation of authority. He just has incompetent minions. Would have been better off with The Minions.
I mean, the fact that randomly a rat presses the right buttons may very well be why they only win once. It’s the only timeline where antman gets out.
It's the only timeline, where an entire sequence of events leads to their success. So, not just a rat, but incalculable number of events, that made everything the way it is.
Although, when I said after Infinity War, that Thanos lost the very moment Dr. Strange figured out to weaponize Time Stone, I didn't expect time travel to be part of the equation. Like... How can you predict future, when it is in the past? Admittedly, Infinity Stones are bullshit, when they are utilized properly.
Which Thanos never did, only using them as a blunt tool for sweeping solitions.
Ant man had to be trapped for 5 years in order to understand that time can be manipulated in the quantum realm.
@@nitni0002 It wasn't 5 years for him in the quantum realm. Remember: he was kind of shocked when he figured out how much times has past.
No, it was convenience. Strange granted the timeline by giving away the Time Stone. The rat is out of the equation.
*quantum screaming*
Thonos motivation is that he has seen that killing half the life will still result in the resistance of those left alive so if he kills all and then rebuilds it the right way it will be happy for him saving them
Very true. However, Thonos is still not anywhere near as humane or fleshed out as the Thanos. He had become the quintessentially villain that so many movies have. Evil for the sake of it.
I actually understood Thanos' motivation, thoughts, his pain. I did share on his pathos when he had to kill Gamora.
@@ordenax Your comment funny as hell
I know this is an old conversation, but I feel like Thanos should have kept his original goal of taking out all life to save the rest, plus getting rid of the possibility of time travel (getting rid of time travel, and those who solved it like Stark) and just like that, Thanos is pretty much the same
@@theyoboygamer3754 And how do you do that?
You remind me of a kid who doesn't know that doing is much harder than talking.
"Make a robot that's immune to all damage. And also make the robot immune to all magic. And also make the robot immune to things that can cancel the robot's powers. And also make the robot immune to God's powers"
@@anonymouspokemon4623 1. Use the infinity stones. If they can destroy a moon with only 4/6 of it's power, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a stretch to take out time travel, or at least the idea of it, or even just the people who are capable of inventing it.
2. Yeah I'm young. So? How does my age change the legitimacy of my ideas? Remember, we're living in a world when a 15 year old black boy managed to get into college. Honestly this type of thinking is the reason kids only remember 2% of what they learn, and why kid shows aren't clever or competent anymore.
Thanos explains that the reason he changes his motivation (shredding the universe) because of how the Avengers tried to undo it. He needs a universe where people don’t remember the old world.
Was hoping to find a comment like this.
mindstone?
+++ yes, exactly
He could have used the time stone and go 4000 yrs into the future. Problem solved.
@@TheVladMan.
He already sometimes does tbh.
The rare point of yours that I disagree with so far: Thanos seems like he has logical sense in Infinity War but, to me, it always was quite apparent that his reasoning was just a rationalization that he created for himself. He is insane and intelligent not intelligent and misguided, the insane part is really important. In End Game since he saw how his original plans were undone he decided that he would just kill everybody since killing people was his main goal, not saving people, despite what he tells everybody including himself. That's highlighted by the many people who question why Thanos decides to wipe out half of life instead of creating twice as many resources, both of which would have the same affect. He doesn't see saving as the main goal, he wants to kill. Opening scene of Infinity War he "has his fun" by kicking the Hulk's ass and then he goes and stabs Heimdall in the chest after he saves the Hulk. It is the same character in both films but one of them feels more of a connection to the heroes than the other.
I do agree that films should stand alone or else what's the point but for me this is literally the only movies that are exceptions, Infinity War isn't nearly as good without watching at least a few of the previous entries and End Game definitely doesn't work without Infinity War.
Really like the channel though! Just found it a few days ago.
I don't think killing people was his main goal and I don't think him saying in Endgame that he's going to start over proves that point either. His goal is and always will be to save people, just in a really messed up way. He's set on eliminating half of living beings to save the other half because that was what his goal was on his home planet titan and he believes had he done that his home planet would still exist. Him saying he's going to start over doesn't prove his goal is just to kill people. Essentially he's saying "these people are ungrateful for being saved. I'll just create new people who will be grateful and eliminate the old ones out of necessity so they dont try to undue it."
Also, if he just created 2x the resources, wouldn't they just run out? resources are finite. At the same time, eliminating half the population shouldn't matter either unless he's going to snap again because eventually the same problem will occur, but the elimination story is much more interesting.
Lastly him killing Heimdall isn't him "having fun". Thanos only kills out of necessity, not for pleasure. He killed Heimdall because he saw him as threat after seeing what potential he had. Think about, the only Avenger he was going to kill forsure was Iron Man (other than vision because he needed the stone). Tony was the only one he knew by name and he was going to finish him off before Strange intervened. Why? Because Tony was a serious Threat. Why didn't he have his fun with Thor, the Guardians(twice), Dr. Strange, Spiderman and every other Avenger after having them beaten and disabled?
@@j3r1659 I could not agree more
One thing I think gets discounted is how Thanos felt seeing his plan succeed then fail.
It's been established he practiced this plan for YEARS. He tried it on planets. He's not insane - he tried it, over and over, no doubt had economists, scientists, etc think it over. He is shown to have built his whole life on this plan.
Now imagine in just one second, you see your whole life plan being reduced to nothing. The whole thing is pointless.
Of course he would be 2d. He is only motivated by rage at this point.
To be fair, I dont think they established this well enough. Even just one scene where Thanos better described that he is angry at his loss would have made him 1000x better. But, I think the logic is there.
In comics Death's existence was quite relevant in Thanos motivations, wich explains why he would chose the killing over the abundance in resources when both achieve the same results. And i do hope that with the eternals or even deadpool (though i dont think DP would be a good debut for her) we actually get some screen for her, by showing how she actually was the secret plotter from this phase (solving the series of lucky events problem) and tie the expanding marvel cosmic universe with what has already happened up till now. Though marvels next villain will be kang and im not that well versed in comics to know if what i said is viable ;-;.
That is inherently wrong. It was repeatedly implied that his planet drove itself to extinction due to overuse of Resources. He kills the asgardians but not all of them. Many were still alive, possibly half of them. And he was into the concept of helping half of the people live from wayyy before 5 years. He was never a madman. A VERY desperate man. Endgame simply removed his personality as if it didn't exist. As much as it was a good payoff, it still uses lazy writing for us to root for Iron Man instead of the villain
People don't understand, imagine what the rat had to lose to get to that point...
Ratatuille had a very long flight, aye?
Yeah people forget that the Rat survived the snap and lived through 5 years of the roughest time in history
@@TheDaks27 rats in the wild typically live 2 ro 3 years tho
rats breed quicker and with out man to keep them in check there be a lot of them every where ! so it was higher chance of rat happening. the rat didn't push right buttons! it stepped on the touch pad which was still active.
@@rexon31
Though wouldn't the rats have less to eat with fewer people to make them food?
I just thought it was the idea that seeing himself winning made thonos extremely arrogant.
Easy explanation for Thanos waiting would be to gain enough energy/strength to snap his fingers again...
The first snap hurt him pretty badly and while he was willing to die he wasn't trying to kill himself.
Actually the directors said the snap process was completely 50% random. So Thanos himself was included in the snap lotto
@@TheCowHerder1 no. If he was he wouldve just died. Not been hurt
@@TheCowHerder1 did you even watch the endgame movie? He was harmed because he was holding the ultimate conduits of cosmic power in his hand and unleashing it.
@@TheCowHerder1 That seems like a massive hole in Thanos' plan. If he were to turn into dust right then in Wakanda, the Avengers could just take the stones and use them to bring everyone back except Thanos.
Again. The directors said themselves. Also the dusting didnt happen right away. It took some time after the snap for people to start disappearing
I disagree about the first act feeling "slow" to me it felt just the right amount to feel the emotional impact of half the population being dusted.
People wanted to torch Disney because The Last Jedi did not spare 1 minute for Luke to grieve Han's death and he is saying that the first act isn't good because of the grieving being shown.
Maybe it felt a little bit longer than it should be, in my opinion, that Widow having online meeting and cap coming after that would be enough, that Captain, Joe Russo and other people counseling each other was unnecessary
@@Sirrajj the counseling section was important, it's to show what Cap has been doing with his life after the snap. Its better than just exposition of saying what Cap did
It's important to show it versus not, but it's also important to not let it drag on. It's a movie. Like in a rambling conversation: Get to the point.
i feel like it was definitely important but there were parts that could be cut.
That “Thonos” quote was taken out of context though. Thanos decided to restart the universe because he realised he simply couldn’t succeed with the avengers in the mix.
Also nice star wars/game of thrones reference 😂
Harrison T Exactly what I thought too. He honestly did a Cinemasins here by leaving out some important details in order to fool/manipulate the audience. Before "Thonos" says that he will use the stones to wipe out all life he also says this: "I thought by eliminating half of life, the other half would thrive. But you've shown me, that's impossible."
This means that he has the same motivation as Thanos.
I mean he could have just killed half of the universe again, but this time making sure that all the avengers are included in that half.
@@lonestarr1490 But the reason why killing off half the universe never worked out as Thanos imagined is not because of the Avengers. By saying "But you've shown me, that's impossible." he is not directly referencing them as the sole reason his plan didn't work. He is basically saying that the Avengers are a representation of humanity. By going through numerous struggles just to obtain the stones and reverse the effects of The Snap, they have proven to him that humanity will never understand his ways and will do whatever it takes to go back to its previous state. In his book ungrateful creatures like that have no place in his new world and thus he wants to wipe the slate clean.
That, funnily enough, ties into why Thanos is so different in Endgame. It is not that the character was changed or flattened. He has always had a classic case of a God complex. However, while in Infinity War we see the story through the lens of his pwn inflated ego, in Endgame we see it through everyone else's. While in his eyes he is righteous and the universe's last hope, in reality he is nothing more than a raging egomaniac with access to unlimited power.
@@lonestarr1490 It didn't not work only because of the avengers but because everyone that remained (at least on earth) was miserable. It didn't end in utopia for anyone.
@@castigousmetamageus8356 ooh you just gave me an idea.
So in another comment I said that I would keep a fairly slow first act, but avoid the thonos issue by keep original thanos alive. He's imprisoned and hannibal lecters various characters, a living reminder of their failure. It builds the motivation for the final confrontations: for the avengers to bring back people, but also allows thanos to realize that people won't move on, and that he has to redo the entire creation for life to prosper according to his wishes.
Ant-man finding out the post-snap world on his own was fairly strong, so i'm not sure I would change the rat thing too much.
Anyways, OG Thanos escapes his prison and while the avengers go fetch the infinity stones, he also goes to meet his younger self to recover his army (he only has two vials of pym particles, and cannot go after every stone, so recovering his army and bring it to the present is the most logical move). they avengers now have more of a ticking clock than before, cause they know thanos at large. Thanos & Thonos have a debate over which of them has to lead, thanos kills thonos in a duel meant to keep balance intact.
The third act is pretty much the same, except Thanos's update to his motivations have been clearly established from much earlier.
I believe that it was Megatron from Beast Machines who once said something like: "So this is how the world ends, not with a bang, but with a rat."
Yeah, ok, but Thanos with an ‚A’ is also a Dum-Dum?
People analysed his Original Plan with the ‚Snap’ and realized: Oh, what a Dum-Dum.
I don’t find a rat problem in ratatouille
The inspector at Gusteau’s certainly did 🌚
Lol🤣🤣😂😂👍👍
Why can rats mind controll People in the rattatuie universe?
@@defensivekobra3873 maybe
I think Thanos’ character was different on purpose. The new Thanos learns that he eventually gets the stones at some point. This takes away any doubt from his mind. He becomes over confident and cocky. His pride is what causes his downfall in endgame. In infinity war, Thanos had no way of knowing if he’d get all the stones. Yes, he was confident, but there may have been some shred of doubt in him. This is why he came off as more calculated and smart. He had no choice but to think of ways that he could get the stones creativity. There was no ego to get in the way. In endgame, his ego gets in the way of his true plans. He now feels entitled to the stones.
Agree completely :)
Also, he destroys the stones so NO-ONE else can ever use them, and UNDO what he has done...
(leaving aside if he'd ever have to REPEAT the same feat when population rises again...)
Plus, he never suffered the loss of Gamora, so he didn't share the empathy (such as sparing Stark and the Avengers when they attacked him in Wakanda) that IW Thanos learned.
So when Strange was looking through time he saw one where all of this BS happened? Where they waited on a random rat?
One big issue with that..... thanos was like he was in infinity war for his whole life, you don’t just change your life goals on a whim. If they wrote him properly he would stop them from getting the stones. Or he would wait until he gets the stones in his timeline (because he knows he will) and then do the same thing, while also using them to erase their actions in bringing everyone back, and make his current timeline the main one. And probably kill all the avengers so they can’t go back in time.... or just kill the rat.
Hey Filmento, I've stumbled upon your videos and find most of them pretty interesting and entertaining to watch, but that being said I don't think this video is as tight nit as some of your other work for a few reasons.
1. I find it a bit funny for you to say that Thanos has always been an 'active character' when for the past 10 + years of films he's been sitting on a floating throne allowing others to do his work for him. It was only until Infinity war when he HAD to step in and even then he still sent most of his minions to do the work. If 'Squidward' had gotten the necklace off of Strange we would have never had the fight on Titan, if the Avenger's hadn't shown up at the train station Midnight would have gotten Vision and the mind stone. Most of the gems he had to get were because his minions failed him and he HAD to act.
2. I think adding a secondary antagonist at this late in the game in a movie that, whether we like it or not, is a second part to Infinity war would be so jarring as a moviegoer. We would have to flesh him/her out and give them motivation, a purpose and so on and so forth or they would be a simple D list marvel villain like many of the movie villains before. At least for me, I would find it just as contrived as the 'rat' scene that suddenly a new villain shows up out of nowhere in the final movie of the OG Avengers.
3. Saying that Thonos irradicating the universe and then rebuild it isn't something the real Thanos would do is, in my opinion, a poor critique. The reason this younger Thanos is prepared to wipe out the whole universe and start again is that the OG Thanos did that already and the younger one sees how it has brought him to the current predicament he is in right now. I think it would be very confusing if the past Thanos merely was like, "When I get the Gauntlet, I'll do the exact same thing that my future self will do!" He saw that his plan left those who would want to revert his actions, so why not clear the board and start from scratch?
You also bring up that Thanos never got any development in Endgame but he doesn't have to, this is the same Thanos we saw in Infinity War but REacting to the Avenger's plans instead of acting as he did before. He had the ball in his court during IW, he had a response for everything and was ready to plow through them all, whereas in Endgame he knew nothing about it and had to react to what they were planning on doing. He doesn't need to talk about his daughter or his homeworld in this one because we already saw who he was in IW, why bring it up again other than to reiterate what we already know? And you just saying 'that's not how that works,' doesn't discount that this is still the Thanos we knew in IW but younger and reacting to a whole new set of circumstances.
4. He didn't use the stones to destroy the stones for no reason, he destroyed them so the Avengers could never use them to change back what he did, so I guess you could say he DID destroy them because he knew SOMEONE would come after them, that being the Avengers. I'll grant him doing it after two days is arbitrary but would it have made the movie better if they said he destroyed it a week ago because he thought that would be the best time? or maybe a month from then so it would be on his birthday? Does it really matter when he destroyed it? Honestly, that's the smartest thing he could have done and if Ant-Man wasn't saved by that glorious rat he would have gotten away with it.
5. Speaking of rat, I think most people have a certain amount of leeway they will give a movie when it comes to contrivances and conveniences, sometimes you're able to look past them and sometimes you can't. If that rat hadn't pressed those buttons Ant-man would have been trapped in that realm forever and there would be no movie; that's true...but, I could say the same for many moments in the MCU. If that bomb that landed at Stark's feet had actually been an effective bomb he would have died instead of becoming Iron Man, if the plane landing in the frozen ocean actually killed Cap we wouldn't have Captain America in the present/future and there would be no other Captain America movies. I know mine could seem like a stretch but honestly, it only matters as to what degree you find them annoying, I thought it was stupid that the rat freed him but I saw it as a small moment that didn't really ruin the movie.
6. The pacing problem only seems to be a problem if we look at this movie as a stand-alone movie and not a 'Part 2' to a two-parter finale for the MCU, there's a reason that when the movies were announced they were called "Infinity wars part 1 and 2'. Now, could they have done some stuff to make it feel less bloated in some areas? I won't deny that but I think it was nice to see how the people of the world and the Avengers are dealing with the universe-spanning genocide the just had.
7. I wouldn't say that Nebula connecting to her future self is arbitrary, we've never been given any reason not to believe something like this could or couldn't happen. We know very little of what goes on with the inner workings of Nebula so saying it's arbitrary isn't exactly right. Convenient? Yes. Arbitrary? No.
8. You say that everything is too easy in the time travel arc and yet you point out several moments that cause conflict and problems, Hawkeye and Black widow, Stark losing the Tecceract thanks to the Hulk, Cap facing his former self, and you forgot Nebula being captured and kicking off the whole third act! There's plenty of conflict and issues that the team have to face off against. I am guessing you mean more of an antagonistic threat but not every threat as to be solely forced by an antagonist. Hell, you brought up a movie in your previous analysis that doesn't have a main antagonist and that's the original Back to the Future, Marty is sent back in time by Doc Brown and he just needs to make sure his mom and dad get together, they didn't need a villain for it and yet it still felt compelling by having small conflicts and an overarching plot. Their small conflicts caused a ripple effect that brought the larger, antagonistic conflict to their timeline.
9. Your 'biggest' point against this Thonos is that his driving motivation is non-existent but that is just plain wrong, his motivation is said in the movie! When he sees through Nebula that his plan is realized and the Avengers are trying to stop it, he travels to the present to stop that from happening. Once the Avengers bring back everyone, he sees that leaving half of the world alive would only cause more problems for him so he changes his plan, to start fresh! He realizes his first plan won't work and changes it accordingly, and you say there's no development.
10. Just like in IW, he sees himself as destiny, that's why he says, "I am inevitable." because you can "dread it, run from it, destiny arrives all the same and now it's here, or should I say I am." Him seeing his future self accomplish his goals only bolsters his feeling of being destiny.
11. I don't think Thanos is a hero, or rather, I don't think Thanos cares if people think of him as a 'hero' all he cares about is that he is right! He sees himself as right! And he still does in this version of himself. That's why he does what he does and is still steadfast in his conviction.
I still very much enjoy your channel and I hope this doesn't come off as an attack or anything but I just felt like this video wasn't your strongest, I still find your work to be quite entertaining though and look forward too more of your videos in the future.
Nebulas brain is on a network. So her connecting to her past self network is sort of like walking by your ex's house and connecting to their WiFi
Hell I wanted to write a comment buuut then I saw yours lol. Yeah I really agree with almost all of your points the only exemption being the whole rat thing. While yeah random things occur all the time in the MCU & in the comics and the whole idea of superheroes is kinda based upon that, that random things can happen and you can become a superhero and since random things happen to everyone that is, imo, what makes ist so beautiful in the first place. Yet I don’t think this should be a formula for making a movie or a period of one. I think the whole rat thing could’ve been written a lot better than make it a mere coincidence. I can’t really think of one right now but I’m not a screen writer either lol. Other than that I fully agree with you.
I like your points but my point while watching the Van scene is why didn’t someone press the button far sooner? Like your telling me that the person who found the van was not curious as to what any of the buttons did? That no one thought to fiddle with it.
John Smith True, true
Wow all good point!
"Thonos" is a more comic accurate version of thanos, not better just more comic accurate.
The most comic accurate would be the one one from the Avengers end credit scene who slyly looked at the camera in a "that's what I'm talkin' about" way when he was warned to pick on Earth was to "court Death."
That doesn’t matter. The movies already had their own Thanos and that’s the version they should have worked with in the sequel.
yeah honestly sounds more right to me
@@ayylmao8375 that thanos is pretty useless now since he already served the purpose
How is a retired farmer that dont care anything anymore would be a perfect villain?
A much more aggresive and younger thanos is much more
"Warrior Thanos", or "Thonos", was not meant to represent the same Thanos. I noticed others have pointed this out too.
If my memory hadn't betray me, I recall the Russo Brothers (who dubbed him "Warrior Thanos") describing him more of a "force of nature" than the villain he was in 'Infinity War'. That film's Thanos stood up by himself. He was portrayed as the protagonist. In 'Endgame', "Thonos" is a product of the time machine and by extension, the Avengers themselves.
" _We messed with time, it tends to mess back._ "
- Tony, 'Endgame'
Strange granted them a chance at victory, not victory itself. In this film, the Avengers are forced to deal with the consequences of their actions, their failures in 'Infinity War'. The Avengers cheated to win and the cost is spawning "Thonos". This take on Thanos knows only with what has been given: the opportunity to collect all the Stones at once, already assembled on a Gauntlet and the knowledge that his future self has succeeded. His Nebula succeeded and he did not went through Ronan's failure/betrayal. He did not have to sacrifice his Gamora. His empathic qualities replaced with his vigor. His youth is represented in his purple skin, rather than pink as seen on his older self.
His speech (Which I thought still pretty well-written and well-acted) did not contradict his 2018 self, but exposes his true plan. He did not want life to thrive, he wanted to be a god. It's always questioned to why 2018 Thanos did not just double the resources. Well he always could, but that's not how he sees as a solution.
Overall, I'm satisfied with "Warrior Thanos", not as the villain, but as an antagonist.
That said, I do prefer had they fought with the original Thanos instead. He once won because of his determination, his strong will, which the Avengers lacked; it is their flaw. It's only logical if Thanos eventually suffer defeat for his flaws, now that the Avengers have found their determination.
You bring up some interesting interpritations of "Thonos" that make me appreciate him more than I once had. I wouldn't say I like him though, but can understand the take on the character and how "Thonos" is servicable and right for the conclusion of Endgame.
Ultimately I agree that I would have preffered to see the Avengers fight the original Thanos, who wielded all 6 stones.
I would have framed Thanos as defeating the Avengers infinitely and reviving them in order to defeat them again and again, in service to prove he is their inescapable "destiny". By exploiting his overconfidence and gradual carelessness in his use of the stones by reviving the Avengers, I would have them somehow overcome him by outsmarting him. Its not a fleshed out idea, or a perfect one but it's simply what I would have preffered.
Not only did thonos not have to sacrifice gamorra, she hasnt even rebelled yet. the whole having a bomb teleported into his ship hasnt happened. Hes had no setback on his villaintrip at all for devellopment of his mindset
Well put. I enjoyed Endgame but it's Thanos certainly lacked character. He just wasn't the same. I, and I'm sure many others, were excited to see how the Avengers would defeat the Infinity War Thanos in a grand battle. Not killed in the first 5 minutes.
I just think if Thanos wanted to be God, then why did he destroy the stones? Was he trying to follow destiny and become God? I just think it weird that he would destroy the stones just like that.
@@twoinsurance2246 He abandoned his true self for his facade of humility. His sacrifice of Gamora pushed him into fully adopting his own lie as the truth.
my therapist: "it's ok, thanos rat can't hurt you. he isn't real"
thanos rat:
Thanos has the same motivation, he changes to destroying the whole universe and starting over because he has already seen that his original plan fails due to the avengers undoing it. By erasing only 50%, there is a chance that those who survive could undo it again, thus he changes his motivation.
Also time travel wasnt built in one night, with Tony talking to Scott when they first go to him seems he has already looked into it which was why he dismissed them so quickly with it. He also didnt try 1 equation and get it right, the only equation we see is the right one but there is dialogue you seem to have missed to explain that.
Time travel wont really matter moving forward BECAUSE of the way they explained it. Changing the past WILL NOT change the future, they lose a fight, go back in time then win, it doesnt effect the timeline they are from. (Lose in universe 199996 and travel hack to 199995 to redo the fight and win then go back to 199996 that villian and their loss will still be there)
Thanos changing his mind at the last minute about ideals he had built over decades of his life came off as awful lazy writing.
Time travel breakthrough was depicted without any struggle or challenge, which made it another example of lazy awful writing. Just saying that the character has been working on it for 5 years only to suddenly figure it out in the next minute does not let you feel that it was that hard. Shit writing.
Time travel physics is the worst shit you could do to your movie after it had been established in a singular and linear timeline without indication of time travel prior.
It was not about Avengers undoing the snap. He look at them and saw what they became after the snap, he saw desperation, misery. Look at the Ant-man coming back and whole first act. Survivors are affected years after the snap. Everyone is in mourning because everyone lost somebody. Look what happened with Hawkeye when he lost his family. Thanos acknowledges that half of population having such horrific memories about the snap is unable to move on. So he wants to kill everybody and build his own world in which there would be no knowledge about the snap.
@Super JLK I think Tony and Steve's search of Pym Particles happened since they're desperate. They weren't really certain about when the Pym Particles exist in the older timeline since none of them exist that time. One wrong guess or failed attempt and resulting Tony and Steve trapped in the past forever and the whole time heist plan failed.
And I believe none of them expects one of the stones disappeared so they believe they only need one trip away to get the stones
The way Tony's mind works, I'm sure he tried to figure out time travel. That is way he had all of those negative answers when to Avengers came to him.
@@Nimbus3690 Time travel wasnt built over night. In fact all stark really did was create a "GPS" device. The pym particles were the ultimate key as well as discovery of the quantum realm and its opportunities. So no, its not lazy. Its just like finding the final piece of a puzzle thats been going for years. Plus its Tony Stark, i feel like people forget how smart he is supposed to be
If they gave Thanos an extra layer to his personality where he was smart enough to understand that he hasn’t fully won yet which results in him becoming much more strong and desperate then in Infinity war, would of been perfect in my opinion.
Yeah, ok, but Thanos with an ‚A’ is also a Dum-Dum?
People analysed his Original Plan with the ‚Snap’ and realized: Oh, what a Dum-Dum.
yea, it seems he grew complacent. instead of seeing his future and assuming its carved in stone, knowing the Avengers are time traveling should have been a very "oh shit!" moment for him. His entire purpose was at stake.
Oh no instead they just let every female that faced her beat him up, and then he just didn't see the stones were missing when he snapped the fingers? So in Infinity War he was godly strong, it was nearly impossible to make him bleed even, and also extremely smart. He figured out a way to defeat 30+ superheroes in a single day. But in Endgame they threw all of it away by making him a weakass big purple idiot
For a second, I thought he was talking about the rat in the first act that set Ant-Man fre- oh wait, nevermind
I . . . I actually really liked the way they did Thanos in Endgame. I didn't see it as a betrayal of his established character so much as a revelation of his true nature. Thanos says he's saving the universe, and I think he believes it, but at the same time his actions don't always *quite* mesh with his stated ideals. He claims to be motivated by mercy and benevolence, but he clearly enjoys messing with people (specifically, he enjoys having total power over others) -- first, when he takes the time to bare-knuckle box with the Hulk (which Maw explicitly says is for fun), and later when he *completely unnecessarily* torments both Starlord and Gamorra, forcing Starlord to have to choose to kill her before revealing that he himself was in control the whole time.
My feeling about Thanos is that he's a lot like . . .
***SERIOUS DEATH NOTE SPOILERS***
(Skip to bottom for good, old-fashioned Endgame spoilers)
. . . Light Yagami, who claims to be sacrificing himself to make a better world, but in reality is just a psychopathic serial killer with a literal god complex. He uses and betrays the people who trust him without a trace of remorse -- in fact, he pretty clearly enjoys what he's doing, one time going so far as to tell his victim who he was -- just so he could see her reaction when she realized she was going to die.
In summary, my impression of Thanos is that he's basically an exaggerated take on an abusive parent figure -- most easily seen by his relationship with his "children," most notably Nebula. He claims to act on others' behalf, to be making the"grown up" decisions that no one else can or will, but *every time* he encounters resistance (with the apparent exception of Gamorra) he reacts with vengeful spite, the hallmark of a bruised pride. So it's hardly any surprise that when Thanos encounters defiance -- in his mind, *ungratefulness* for his salvation -- that he immediately reverts to punishing, stripping down, and rebuilding the universe *just like he's been doing to Nebula all along.*
(I promised myself I was done rambling, but I have one thing left to add: this side of Thanos is why he destroys the stones in the first place. He originally thought he would settle for wiping out half of all life, but once he found himself alone with his thoughts he realized that the temptation to keep using them would inevitably be too great. He doesn't destroy them to protect us from some other villain. He destroys them to protect us from *himself.*
I think it also makes perfect sense how he works in endgame- at this point he's seen that he succeeds, he's seen that he can do what he plans to do, what he thinks is right, and from his perspective, he sees everyone else in denial over it, after he gave everything to help them. I mean, sure, past thanos might not have done it yet, but present thanos really did give everything to 'save' the universe. He only needs to do anything at all because they found a way to undo his lifes work, and hes as pissed off as anyone would be if they sacrificed themselves and everyone they loved to save the universe, only to have some idiots decide that they didn't need saving at all and want to doom it all again.
As steve says early in the film, the problem is that the avengers just couldn't move on. Thanos' new universe would be one the same as the old, because he genuinely is attatched to it (its why he wants to save it at all), just minus the memory of him killing half of it. And, to get back at the avengers for literally murdering him in cold blood in front of his child, he'll kill earth before he 'saves' the universe. Breaking earth won't cause any problems long term, given it will be re-made in a few days anyway, and everyone on it will be safe, so the fact that he is doing that for enjoyment is both something he understands and ultimately plans to undo.
Shat myself when I read Light Yagami. You've changed how I saw Thanos for the better. Still think it wasn't perfect though.
Boom. Finally, somebody else who got it. Thank you!
You have 103 likes. That's quite sad. Shows how many people don't agree.
The best example of Thanos' true character in Infinity War is directly after he beats down the Hulk. When he kills Loki for failing him. Throughout the film, Thanos makes all these claims about how he wants to save the universe, how he's helping people, how he thinks he's being merciful. But in this one moment, we see the true Thanos: A tyrannical madman who derives *physical* pleasure from literally strangling the life out of someone, to the point where it makes him audibly exhale from the endorphin rush. That was *always* the intention.
The rat was master Splinter after spending considerable time educating himself in the Quantum fields.
I've only now just noticed that Thanos looks as if he is about to use the gauntlet (2:21) and it looks as if some power remains within it, but it's actually just stark coming up from underneath the fireplace. Rather cool effect they went for there I must say.
That’s Banner not Stark 😂
Vader saying: “No, I don’t even know who you are”...
Comedy gold! 🤣
Space balls intensifies
If I remember correctly his reasoning was as follows: "I succeded in erasing half the life in the universe, but you found a way to change that and make everything as it was again (if I let you use the stones). So this time, I will erase all life and create new one that doesn't know what happened or about the stones, so there will be no threat to what must be done to save all life."
Not sure if he says it that way, but I only saw the movie once and I think he touches on that before his "render it down to the last atom" thing.
I liked your previous video thumbnail. This one, not so much.
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Ye the previous one made me nut so damn hard primus Elizabeth Olsen is just a beauty to the world that we don't deserve 😍
@@optimusprime8609 I've never heard of anyone using the words nut and a beauty in the same sentence.
Truly a progressive man that recognizes the direct connection between the 2.
@@hewhomustnotbenamed5912 Well why not ???
@@nemanjacabarkapalordozunu I just haven't heard anyone using those words.
i would watch an hour long movie of the avengers playing golf. the age of ultron party showed how great friendly interactions between them can be
I disagree with your take on Thonos' motivation. I always thought of Thanos in IF as an incredible narcissist, and I think Endgame's Thanos drove home the truth of his motivations.
exactly, also he changed his mind on how to use the stones based on the avengers (post snap) actions. as he said himself it wont work to kill only half of all life. those who knew what it was like before will fight to change it back. so he basically is like well fuck it i have to start everything over so no one knows what was.
I think Thanos just has a God complex
I also believed when watching Endgame that it was shedding light on his true purpose which is just to be praised as a god and really he doesn’t care who’s doing the praising
The Illustrator Yar I think that was only to make him more tuff and agressive. They changed his personality and goals to make the fight last longer and be more challenging
At first viewing I thought the same as you, but on second viewing and after this video... don't you think it's weird that a man who carries such a lofty ideal with him for years suddenly changing his mind like that? In other words, there really feels like a disconnect between Inf.War Thanos and EG Thanos
"But at this point I care so much about these characters I would happily watch them play golf for an hour"
I feel so attacked right now XDD
Attacked? Why?
Because he is also one of them
But here is the thing... that doesn't make it any less good.
Sure, the slow scene revolved around us seeing the other films and loving the characters.... but this IS a sequel... this is a part of a series...
So you shouldn't feel attacked or feel like that's a valid point against the movie. In fact, it's the opposite... it's a strong point of the movie...
Yeah, ok, but Thanos with an ‚A’ is also a Dum-Dum?
People analysed his Original Plan with the ‚Snap’ and realized: Oh, what a Dum-Dum.
it should be noted that thonos's reasons for wanting to destroy the universe are that he realized that no matter how successful he was at achieving his goals, his enemies would cheat and rob him of his victory.
So rather than do the exact same thing again, with no guarantee that it wouldn't be undone, he decided to go full psycho and just destroy everything and rebuild it all from scratch.
The avengers cheated him out of his destiny and he's pissed about it basically.
Doesn’t change the fact that it contradicts the very reason he wanted the stones in the first step place.
@@kingorange7739 Feels like an addendum to me where he will rebuild the universe with the same things but without the ability or want to undo his changes.
Mogreturns yes but it contradicts why Infinity War Thanos wanted to wipe out half of all life.
King Orange He wanted life to be in balance. If he left half of life, he saw that those who knew what was, that growing imbalance, would try to restore it. Thusly, the logical conclusion is to rip it all away and let life try again with creature that do not know of the excess of the past. It’s different from IW Thanos, but you cannot expect him to react the same. The Avengers are the ones reverting the change that he knows of, what about when others he has no idea exist come? He cannot simply keep bouncing around universes, as even using the stones once(as well as a Stormbreaker to the chest, but I digress) will damage him greatly. Therefore, use them once or twice, finish it, Life is still life, even if it’s different life.
Jaxus R I understand ur logic but don’t forget the Why was just as important as the what. Thanos immediately concluded that universe wasn’t in balance because the Avengers worked to undo what he did. As far as Thonos knew, the universe was in balance.
I have to greatly disagree regarding "thonos" motivation at the end regarding killing everyone and starting new life as oppose to the original objective.
During this part of the timeline Thanos is immensely confident in the eventuality that he will collect the stones as is his destiny. He has not yet had the repeated failures to force him to act and be the active, angry self he was in Infinity War, tired of waiting for his destiny. It was a slow build from smiling even though the Shikari lost in Avengers to actively being disrespected in GotG to being an active but not yet open participant when he stole the gauntlet to finally being open and aggressive after too many underling failures in Infinity War (technically Thor ragnarok but its the same moment).
Here we have here confident but not yet absorbing much failure. And then he gets hit with an emotional triple whammy -
First a positive -Confirmation that he succeeds.
Then a negative - not only do the people of the universe not only not respect his decision and sacrifice, but theyre still EVEN AFTER HE WINS fighting to undo his destiny.
And then the big one: His Win and his destiny costs him his life.
You notice when he sees his death he doesnt emotionally react. He doesnt flinch. He just says "Destiny fulfilled". THAT'S THE MOMENT PAST THANOS CHANGES! He know if he follows the exact same path - the exact same destiny path, destiny fulfilled means his death.
He cant give up his dream or a perfect universe. He's too mad for that. So he goes all-in. Now he is active from the start not out of anger, tiredness, frustration --- he is acting out of FEAR. That's why he's acting more like a traditional villian. He sits and watches when the avengers trio arrive cause he now knows THEY HAVE THE POWER TO KILL HIM. So he's careful and watching them approach. He knows the ppl of the universe cant accept one half gone, so he needs to rebuild in the image he wants.
But most important to him is the part left unsaid: He wants to live.
Thats why the dust scene was so monumental to me. Not only cathartic but thanos in that moment realized he truly lost. Destiny was not his. And now he doesnt even get death, he just no longer exists and he can do nothing but accept it.
That's fine and everything. But the issue is that if Thanos can just create a whole new universe, why can't he just create infinite resources? Or just create another universe and make half of the population move to that universe instead? Like it was mentioned in the Cinemasins video.
It completely ruins Thanos' motivation because it makes his more extreme actions in Infinity War and Endgame pointless and obsolete.
@@mlgamings6110 Because he's the MAD Titan. His plan never made sense, he just wanted to be right. He wanted to show the universe that his way is the right one, nothing else. And because he's mad, he thought he was the good guy.
When he saw that his oh-so-great plan wasn't working, he decided to give the whole ungrateful universe the middle finger. Very simple. Because it wasn't his fault that the plan didn't work, it was the universe.
Exactly and not only that, "Thonos'" ruthless and over the top cruel demeanor (as well as his design) is actually way more in line with his Comics counterpart than the Thanos in Infinity War... So it may be a weird change for moviegoers but it was a great course correction for us Comics fans...
@@mrZavior biggest issue for moviegoers is a lot people felt a hard time adjusting to the fact that infinity war thanos was the protagonist (protag doesnt always need to be the hero --- his story was who we followed most closely throughout) while past thanos was a support character.
@@Jasmin-lg3gf yeah, I understand that. But that doesn't fix the problem it creates where Thanos is no longer a very compelling villain. I used to actually be very interested in him and even found him somewhat reasonable and that's what made him so interesting.
But now it's like, "oh great, another crazy, uninteresting villain."
Endgame has a villain.
Grief.
Loss. Inadequacy. Despair. Anger. Denial.
And these aren't ones you can mobilize against easily.
Now, a second chance at final battle for half of all life in the universe and undoing of Thanos' damage is cheesy, unrealistic and the same times - expected.
But, somehow I didn't feel, like it had invalidated first act of the movie. I don't believe would have worked with a bad guy.
After some more thought I wanted to add, that what happens later in the movie is 50% fan service and the 50% is exploration of the same questions as in the first act, but in different situations.
The challenges aren't _physical,_ but they _are_ challenges.
Yes, and it would be a great villain in a Woody Allen movie. But an Avengers movie is still first and foremost action, and it needs an immediate threat to push the plot forward. Then the immediate threat can represent grief on a thematic level, but it still needs to be there and be in direct conflict with the heroes.
Look at Age of Ultron. I'm not particularly fond of that movie, but it doesn't have the Endgame problem at all: Ultron is both the symbol of Tony Stark's fear AND the giant mass murderer the Avengers have to save the world from.
@@rickblaine9670 Dunno. First two Avengers movies didn't work for me at all. Ultron might've been a symbol of Tony's fear and murderous robot - it didn't help the movie any. At least - for me.
For better or worse, Marvel movies aren't just action movies. Instead they branch out into many different genres. Spy thriller? Heist? Coming of age story? That trend would likely continue. Some would like a particular experiment, some would hate it. It's not hard to find people with diametrically opposed views on almost any single MCU movie.
Thonos is different, that is kind of obvius. 2015: "Fine i'll do it myself"
Thonos did not have his journey, thanos did
Yeah, his journey was his development in IW, that's why he didn't kill Tony, that's why he fighted with respect. But Thonos didn't see that, he saw that he won and that he died
That's not the point at all tho. You don't have the Villain forcing anything. Then you get the reason which defies all of the logic they spent on the last movie building up by just wiping out everyone and building from scratch rather than just creating more resources so that no one has to die.
SirBeakle
Stop being me
SirBeakle He's 1000yrs old your logic doesn't make any sense five years mean nothing to thanos
@@blessedxxiii5583 8 years
Sorry, can't agree with you on this one at all. "Thonos" motivation isn't non-existent. He sees what he achieves in the prime timeline but notices that people, instead of being thankful to their saviour, keep hanging on to the idea of the universe as it was before. That means his plan was flawed from the beginning. "Thonos" can see that now. Basically, he is addressing what people have been debating about after Infinity War - whether his plan made sense or not, that halving the population of the universe would only make for a temporary respite, that making more resources would lead to further population growth, exacerbating the problem, and so on.
"Thonos" gets this now. He notices that the plan as it was brought misery over the universe because people do not simply adapt and move on. So he goes for the "clean slate" approach. Wiping the whole universe out and recreating it in a controlled manner. He'd become the "intelligent designer" of a universe without flaw. Literally God. He puts it "A grateful universe, not knowing what they've been given" and Cap responds by saying "Born out of blood."
This time, the plan was foolproof, it would work. But the cost would be the whole of current existence.
Also, "Thonos" is still the same as he was up until "Guardians of the Galaxy", his backstory applies to him as well as his IW self. He just finally course corrects, see above.
And the fact that the movie doesn't have a villain for two hours I can agree with, but not that you think that devalues it. It's dealing with the consequences of Infinity War. Thanos' work is done, killing him changes nothing. He doesn't need to be alive for the Avengers trying to fix the universe. It's practically the same as the ending of Watchmen, where the Crimebusters arrive too late to stop Ozymandias' plan. It's already done, now everyone has to live with it.
I agree with you on the thonos part...It's a new better plan...
And I've only watched the movie once so far but I now think that the "dullness" of the first and Second act might be a way to convey how everyone in that universe is feeling. Lost, alone, without enough willpower to do anything...it might just be a flawed movie planning but it could also mean that the movie watcher is supposed to get into that specific mind set... At least in my opinion...
But I must agree with filmento on the rat... That really was a rather cheap way out...there were so many fan theories which would have been so much better... And could have easily been explained if you offered some of the time they spent on "dull" scenes to it.
@@mmjf674 You don't think in five years time in a warehouse, a rat could happen to sit on a button that turns on the quantum tunnel? Five years is a long time, I didn't think it was too illogical.
@@TheSixthDoctor ita not illogical. Its just not cinematic...and I kinda expected more... But sure in can happen...that wasn't the problem. Just after all the fan theories it seemed anticlimactic
@@mmjf674 Why does a rat setting Scott free by bumbling over some controls need to be cinematic? It's a stroke of pure luck in a desperate situation and it sets off the plot for the movie. This is setup, the end battle and Hulk and Tony being able to snap everyone back into/Thanos' army out of existence is the cinematic payoff.
@@TheSixthDoctor Yeah the solution works...from start to finish and it did take five years for a rat to relase Scott by accident. It's just it wasn't satisfying for me.... Its totally fine if it was for you. Like I said....fan theories had kinda hyped my expectation of the thing... But then it was by sheer luck...I don't know. For ME it would have been cooler if it had been sth about the quantum realm or sth that is not obvious from the very start...but that's just a personal opinion..
But the worst part of the movie was: Professor Hulk.
Not even his own distinct personality, just Mark Ruffalo on steriods.
That’s a tricky one, mainly because most of the Hulk Banner stories are about two people one body.
I agree. They really needed a Hulk redemption scene in Endgame. A missed opportunity
@@joejitsu034 I agree. The whole point of The Hulk is that his power grows as he gets angrier, but he also loses control. Bruce is the brain, Hulk is the brawn. Once Bruce learns to accept his anger and gains control of the Hulk he is supposed to be at his strongest, but he does nothing in Endgame. Tony is the brains, instead of Bruce. And Antman is the gigantic brute strength instead of the Hulk. Whereas in the comics Hulk literally gets strong enough to destroy planets with a punch, in Endgame he might as well not be there.
@@joejitsu034 They needed a Hulk redemption scene in the first Hulk film.
He is his own personality though. He's like Bruce but much, much more optimistic and confident. Watch the scene where the ancient one astral projects him back to Bruce, he completely changes
"Why can't they just go back into the past and fix it?"
This was explained in the movie. Going back in time doesn't change YOUR time line, your past has already happened. Instead it creates a new timeline entirely. Endgame worked because they didn't go back in time to kill Thanos before he could snap, they went back in time to get the stones so they could reverse the snap.
SPOILERS AHEAD
This is why Black Widow's death is permanent. They can't just go back and stop her once they beat Thanos, she's already dead.
I suppose they could go back and take Widow back to the future with them, but A that's assuming she'd willingly go and B it'd create a new timeline where they never got the soul stone, creating a new universe doomed from the start. "We don't trade lives, cap."
No they couldn't do that in the first place. Once you take an action it is your past and you can't change that. Which is why Loki escaping didn't cause further issues, he is in a new timeline where he escaped.
Going to where Natasha went to stop her would only prevent the reverse of the snap and create another timeline where they failed to reverse the snap.
@@nicholasspruitenburg2809 And the cycle continues.
In fact filmento said immediately afterwards why they can't go back and change everything in the future... Because of branching timelines, the past you change won't be your own. He says cop out, I say elegant solution.
I'm personally not a fan of multiple time lines. I never have been. But, the multiverse has been around d for a long time. I just kind of hoped they'd never bring it to the MCU. For me it lowers the stakes when a character dies. For instance, we really did lose Gamora but now we just have a new one. Im personally not a fan of that. Im much more of a fan of time travel as it is used in Tenet and Harry Potter where you interact with your own time-line.
Tony stark has actually been working on time travel for years it was just ant man who gave him an idea so he could actually figure it out
Yeah he says in the movie sth like " don't worry if it doesn't work like the other times.....
@@mmjf674 " you dropped that.
Well, there were visible models of space-time on his holo-display, indicating that despite how dismissive outwardly he was of the idea, when Steve and Nat came, he still tried.
There's thing called rumination, that causes people to overthink things over and over. While creating an internal appearance of "thinking hard about an issue" it can make people's minds run in circles. Tony might've been on the right track all along, but his doubt and obsessiveness had been holding him back.
And then Scott Lang comes in and gives him hope.
@@donatodiniccolodibettobardi842 exactly...good point... Yeah he had like ten different models there...I remember it now...
@@mmjf674 Josh meant you didn't close the quote with a >"< at the end. Also, too many dots. =)
Sure “Thonos” isn’t as cool as the original we saw in Infinity War, but I think that’s intentional. In IW we stuck with thanos in his journey where he develops in several ways: one being how he realizes the faults of his ways as an uncaring parent to gamora (when she explains how she hated every day living with him but he never realized it) and another being how he learns to go after the stones himself because waiting for others got him nowhere. We see a wiser thanos in IW, where he had to fight and sacrifice to achieve his goal, grounding him and humbling him in some twisted way. In Endgame, thanos is younger, more naive, without the extreme sacrifices made in IW. He sees the future and cannot nearly understand himself because he did not go through it yet. So yes I don’t think he’s as fleshed out in Endgame but it just proves the character study of himself that was Infinity war and how it was a pivotal moment in his development toward his ultimate goal. He understands true sacrifice in IW and how everyone must sacrifice for a better world, but in Endgame he does not understand yet, ultimately seeing his future “win” as confirmation that he can be a god, with his younger self feeling that he can destroy like he’s done so many times before.
Correct, but it still doesn't change the fact that he makes for a less compelling villain compared with IW Thanos. It makes sense within the narrative they chose, but it's ultimately a weaker narrative when they're defeating Thanos before he levelled up and developed as a character. It's like killing Hitler as a baby, it makes sense within a story about time travelling to stop the big bad, but the narrative of a conflict between the time traveller and a baby is a lot weaker with the victory also feeling like cheating to a certain extent. Obviously this EG Thanos isn't a baby but he is an inferior, less compelling version and his army of mooks that were already defeated once in IW doesn't make up for that fact.
Lee Moffat I definitely agree with that. I guess my point was just that filmento continued saying it was not the same thanos in Endgame, but never truly addressed why in his analysis, almost blaming it solely on poor writing. I do wish they gave Endgame thanos a bit more development to make him more compelling, maybe even a different arc than infinity war’s.
No, this shows thanos at his core.
Thanos is still a maniacal, egotistic monster don’t forget that shit
@@MoffatLee It's like killing Hitler before he take the france.
Thonos wanted to destroy the universe because he saw that people weren't grateful after Thanos "saved" the universe. Thonos was in rage and wanted to kill the people who hurt Thanos, other than that he didn't really have a goal
Once again, problem with that is its contradictory to the outlook IW Thanos had. IW Thanos perfectly understood why people were opposed to him, and he was prepared to potentially die for his mission. Whether or not people appreciated what he did was irrelevant. Because at the end of the day, if it created the result of saving them. They would understand. At least that’s what Thanos thought. Also he based his judgment off of 10 people who were already enemies to him. So makes little sense
@@kingorange7739 he knew ppl would oppose him, but he didnt expect ppl 2 go so far as 2 invent time travel 2 undo his plans. That showed that ppl would reject his gift and just return 2 normal, not moving on like he wanted them to. This made him decide 2 scrap his plan and just reform the universe instead
@@whateveriwant6985 once again, he may not had expected the lengths. But he was prepared for those to oppose him, to try to undo his plan. And given that only 10 people tried it makes no sense for him to make a judgment call on the entire universe over the actions of 10
@@kingorange7739 those 10 represented the universes desire 2 undo the snap. And the fact that only 10 ppl had that big of a chance of fucking his plan over completly is enough 2 show that his plan wont succeed. Assuming he didnt feel threatened by them, lets say he just let them do their shit and he just didnt go 2 the future. His timeline would play out relativly the same and he'd win only 2 have the avengers kill him l8r and undo his plan. By going 2 the future he hoped 2 make his plan permanent, by killing those 10 and also any1 else who might stand against him in the universe. Because if 10 randoms could overcome him like this, whos 2 say there rnt plenty more out there who would do the same as these 10? He cant risk that, so better 2 just reshape everything rather than put his trust in the idea that the universe would just roll with his plan
@@whateveriwant6985 Except he doesn’t have to do either. Assuming he kept the stones and stayed out of reach. Kill the Avengers and if he has to, do a mind wipe of the survivors
I fully disagree on this. the “villian to overcome” for the first part of the movie is the crushing grief and regret created by the snap, even while during the time heist.
Thor is the best example for this!
...and Noobmaster69! XD
I agree. Not all conflicts have to be external.
It was actually kind of refreshing for what is otherwise an grand entry of action movies.
@@seacliff217 Yeah and to have it 3 hours long when they could make it shorter but direct to the point.
yeah cus marvel schlock are such an arthouse thought provoking movies
@@Kaibo-yc2pv Nothing Fear stated has to be inherently deep...
On the motivation of Thonos at the end its still in line with what he's always wanted,to build the universe in his own image one where life is preserved instead of the sentiment of living hence he makes it a point to mention the leftovers remembering. He takes matters in his own hands when he realises that everyone he's ever tasked with gathering the stones fail,including the black order in Infinity war,thus he realises that the obstacle was never the Avengers but them still being alive long enough to see him reach his goal
I'm just waiting for the reveal that Noobmaster69 is actually the Grandmaster
Or Loki. Or Jane. Or Darryl.
People keep vying for Deadpool.
You forget, the reason that Thanos destroyed the stones was because there was already a villain: The Avengers. To him, they were the one thing that would destroy everything he had worked so hard to create.
That is true, but the issue is the time he does it, aka within a couple of days before they got there. Why doesn't he directly do it after Infinity War? Was it because he wasn't sure what to do? If so, how come he didn't immediately think that with the infinite power of the stones he could destroy simply destroy them? Was it because he feared something from the planet and wanted to be safe enough? Was it because he was required to wait either because the stones didn't have enough power, or he had to follow a vision? Was it because he just forgot and was like "oh shit, I should probably destroy the Stones today otherwise I'll forget again and it'll be too late"?
It's a minor thing that does cause a significant enough issue similar to the rat.
@@TheDiscusserOriginal Considering how powerful the snap is and how the gauntled had been damaged from it, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume Thanos rested and got his energies back before doing the second snap to avoid dying from destroying the stones.
@@miky9504 Perhaps, but the primary issue is that it's never addressed, and so it causes a significant enough issue
@@TheDiscusserOriginal it is addressed look at what it did to him the first time, the glove when they kill thanos and what it did to hulk and tony, are you stupid?
@@freakyguyonthewall It is not addressed why Thanos breaks the stones 2 days before they get there. Filmento literally pointed that out. If you're going to be toxic, at least get your facts straight.
He destroyed the stones to keep himself from giving into the temptation to do whatever he wanted to do with them. When you can do almost ANYTHING, you'll be tempted to do a lot.
He also destroyed them to prevent anyone from undoing the snap.
@Marc Woolward doubt
@@guywithaface887 But wouldnt that only buy time for the Life. Population can expand so much, just look at how much Earths Population did grow in just the last 100 or 50 years.
This whole Action of thanos will buy life only maybe a few hundred years or less and they will be at the same Point where it all startet.^^
@ I love how benevolent and selfless people love to act on the internet, like they're the best thing since Jesus. Me, I'd want my own planet with millions of hot ass alien bitches from every race, lots and lots of good food, music, the most comfortable bed in the history of the universe, and a universal internet service. That's what I can think if right now. Everything else comes after.
more like the poorly thought out writing was trying to give him some sort of depth without thinking of how incredibly stupid they were writing him out to be.
You missed the setup of his motivation completely. He said, they were ungrateful and would always try to bring it back to the way it was. So he would prevent the possibility of a hero as he killed every who would remember. It's actually really similar to the logical train of thought of generals razing villages in battle.
no it is opposite. try to think clearly.
@@rilluma if half are alive they’ll remember and try to undo even if the avengers where defeated whoosh to say another group of heroes won’t try again to stop this hell destroy everything and create new people (obviously less than before) it makes senses
That's what I thought
He wants to build a utopia where the people are grateful and we all know that his utopia is a dystopia in disguise.
@@seymournerds342 sounds like communism
Big fan of the channel, but I couldnt disagree with you more here. We get a brilliant opening act to the second part of a two partner that is entirely focused on character, and the theme of this video is essentially "first act bad."
There are plenty of Bays out there, filling flicks with mindless action. I saw Endgame in theatres 4 times, and LOVED the opening hour every single time.
Man, I got a feeling Filmento would hate comicbooks judging from the first half of this video lol
Try not to look at the "Thanos vs Thonos" problem as a flaw, but as a feature of the story that shows Thanos' real colors.
Actions Thonos takes in Endgame reveal the true motivation Thanos had in Infinity War. Infinity War tricked us by giving Thanos the role of a protagonist. We bought into his narrative about balancing the universe because of this role. Thonos in Endgame reveals that this motivation was a lie. Thanos actually wanted a gratitude - even in Infinity War, he says he just wants to "watch the sun set on a grateful universe". He wants to be a savior for enacting HIS plan. He might have fooled us - and he is probably even fooling himself into believing his lie about ballance, but it is only about himself.
That is revealed in Endgame, where he sees that his plan did not make him into a savior, that it only made people despise him even more - with Avengers being the ultimate symbol of this. That is why he is angry and ruthless, that is why he wants to destroy the universe and create a "new universe, teeming with like, that knows not what it has lost, but only what is has been given - a *grateful universe* ." That is actually the whole quote he gives in Endgame which was cut short for this video - and I think it reveals everything.
He does not care that it is born out of blood, because his intention, his **real** intention was never about saving lives - it was just a lie, masking that he, the megalomaniac he was, wanted to become an admired savior of the universe.
And I believe that this lie which convinced not only himself, but all the viewers in Infinity War makes him a compelling character even though he ends up abandoning it by the end of his arc.
Tadeáš Burger That is very well noticed! I completely agree
I disagree
But well said
And guess what
Mysterio wanted the same thing.....
this is exactly what I was thinking, when Thanos from the past sees that his goal was achieved he becomes cocky and believes even more that he is destined to be the savior of the universe.
A random villain to solve the randomness of the plot... yeah make sense..
BlayZGames you said it. An extra villain shoehorned in this movie will feel like Spider-Man 3 lol
I think it would become too messy too, too many things going on at the same time. Doctor Strange did say it was an extremely small chance that they would succeed and win over Thanos, so it makes sense some things would seem slightly random I suppose
I feel like the character moments in the second act should have been done way better if they didn't have time for a secondary villain such as Red Skull. Since character moments were what they were aiming for, they should have made it as intense as a normal drama.
If done right, of course it could have been done well. Especially with this team of writers and directors
If there was a new, smaller, villain the movie would take an entirely different direction. He's suggesting that a smaller villain would make the plot seem less random by giving reason for the random things to happen. Its not really a comparison of this movie to this movie with a vaillain, its a comparison if this movie and another theoretical movie entirely.
I think you’re being harsh on “Thonos”. He still has Thanos’ mannerisms and goals. You didn’t even mention the part where he didn’t even flinch at his own death because he was so proud that he had completed his mission. I will agree though the film lacked a villain in the first half but they still had a clear big problem that they had to deal with. The phantom evil idea sounds kind of cool but i feel like it would best fit as they start gathering the stones, which is still like an hour into the movie without a villain
Thonos did not have Thanos’ mannerisms or goal. Idk what ur talking about
@@kingorange7739 He literally did. And something Filmo didn't seem to get is that Thanos' ("Thonos") deciding to destroy the universe itself is 100% *in-character*.
He believes that he is the Arbitur of the Universe, so HE must be the one to fix it.
@@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim once again it isn’t. Wiping half of life was done to prevent all life from
Dying off. “If life is left unchecked, life will cease to exist.”
Thonos literally was doing the very thing Thanos was working to prevent out of spite against 10 Avengers. IW Thanos was never like this and wouldn’t had done it. So no it’s not in character in the slightest.
@@kingorange7739 I disagree. the 50% thing was a solution only if the universe accepted it. It didn't. It is futile to try saving something that doesn't want to be saved. Thonos saw something different needed to be done. He wanted to create a new universe, because the current one would just go back to its default state and kill itself anyway if he left it the way it was.
@@Elipson52008 you realize he could of accomplished the same thing without killing them by simply doing a memory wipe
I actually like Endagme Thanos because it reviews the "true" nature of Thanos...he's insane.
All his philosophy, all his martyrdom all of it is in service of a goal do fundamentally "wrong"
The problem is that he was originally right, society changed for the better after the black death for this very reason.
Only problem I have with Endgame is they can/could've saved *everyone* with their own rules... Time Stone Stark, push time through Cap and Time Heist everyone else back to our timeline...
That and the Old Cap makes no sense.
@@cctomcat321 You can run circles trying to "logic" out the time travel or you can just enjoy the ride 😉
@@KrazyStargazer nah.. Just one circle.. lol. Wasn't that hard to see the problems and the rat isn't even top 10 for me. Doesn't mean I don't like the movie... just have to keep rewatching it to keep liking it.
@@cctomcat321 For me personally a story doesn't have to make "sence". It simply needs to make me "feel" something 😄
T hats just me thou 😁
Galactus would have been the perfect villain to fit the description.
What would Galactus do with the stones that he can’t easily do himself ?
I hope he is the next big villain for phase 4-5. Also he doesn’t need the stones
He couldn't fit in the van tho
@@nixuniverse5240 He would want to take the Stones away to prevent any more damage from happening, just how he took the Ultimate Nullifier away from Richards.
Besides, he isn't more powerful than the stones combined, remember Thanos owned him and several other cosmic beings in the original infinity war comic.
Fight Commentary Breakdowns
With all due respect, I think that Adam Warlock would have been a _reasonably_ better option (Especially considering that they *_literally_* put him in the story _right_ before infinity war.) but that makes sense too.
4:59 Actually there is a reason because Thanos says that the stones were nothing byond temptation as he only needed them for the snap and he also destroyed them so his snap couldn't have been undoon
I dont think thats what filmento meant. There was no established reason for why he happened to destroy them THEN so long after the snap.
@@Mars30999 Yeah! I think he's saying that he could've destroyed the stones immediately after use back in Infinity War, so why did he wait exactly 2 days later?
As much as I loved Endgame, I'm really glad there's a critique that feels entirely subjective versus nagging and aggressively negative.
I disagree that the first act moving so slowly is a problem. It actually illustrates how their failure in Infinity War has left all of them adrift. Tony Stark isn't Tony Stark - as he says in his final line, he IS Iron Man. Steve Rogers IS Captain America - when he's not throwing his shield, kicking ass and taking names for the cause of something greater, he's just the Man Out of Time.
The first act of Endgame hits home not because we love these characters and give it a pass, but because we love these characters and hate to see them broken. It's not what we came for; it's not why we've bought tickets for ten years. It's illustrated so well in Black Widow's hologram conference call when Okoye is just like "Nat, it's an earthquake." Romanoff needs something to do, a world to save, someone to help. She's always had a mission, and now she doesn't.
Hulk we see as some character growth for Banner, but what is he, really? He's a mascot for kids, "Hulk out" as a motto. He's sitting in a cardigan at a diner. What has Banner the scientist done in the last 5 years in studies on gamma radiation or whatever? Nothing. What has Hulk done? There's no enemy to fight. It's all empty and lame. It's trying to laugh when the tone is so depressed.
It is perfect. For 45 minutes, an Avengers movie is a character movie without an enemy, but with an antagonist - themselves, their nature, their hurt. It's watching Lady Bird, who is just a girl finding herself at the end of college; it's Next to Normal, where a mother's depression and schizophrenia is breaking down the home. Endgame is a movie of failure, and at the end, triumphing over that failure, at terrible cost.
Michael Harrell : Beautifully said. This critic wants Endgame to also be Thanos the movie. It reminds me of the Hulk Fan boys who hated Infinity War because Hulk got beat up in the beginning of the film and then refused to fight. The answer to this - is that IW is about Thanos quest for the Gauntlet - it’s not about the Hulk. A good critic has to understand what a film is actually about, and then assess on that basis. EndGame is really the complete character arc of the 6 OG Avengers more than anything else, but note that this entire forum is 99% focused on Thanos, because that’s what the critic focuses on. That’s not good criticism.
Beautifully said.
Thank you. The first act was really just the falling action of infinity wars.
In next year’s Snyder Cut of Justice League, Darkseid will make Thanos look like child’s play.
I’m sorry man, but i just can’t get down with this critique.
i) the ‘two days’ bit
The fact that thanos used the infinity stones ‘two days ago’ doesn’t have to be connected to anything, and I don’t see how one could argue it should. Not every occurence needs to be connected to a major plotpoint. That thanos used the stones ‘two days ago’ simply could mean that... that’s when he finally got around to it. It’s a valid explanation. He has all the time in the universe now to do whatever he wants, why should he rush it? And he’s already achieved his goal, why keep around the stones? What use does he have for them, given the context of his ideology and what he knows from his little retreat and farm? Wouldn’t keeping them _only_ present the risk of some new villain coming after him? Why would Thanos want to risk dealing with that?
ii) No villain
This isn’t an issue. Trying to cram a villain into the first parts of this movie would only serve to distract from the main point of that part: to give characterization and humanity to the various characters so that their arcs can actually be satisfactory. Not everything needs to be some grand ‘superhero’ moment, and i can only imagine how much weaker thor’s regaining of confidence would be if, instead of having time to talk to his mother one last time, he had to fight a villain and hurry on out. Sure, one could say ‘he should regain confidence by saving his mom from the villain!’ But that’s been done to death so many times in so many movies. Why does everything need to be resolved in a big fight? Why can’t our characters just have human bonding moments? I remember that scene with thor and his mother - would i be able to say the same about just another fight?
iii) the rat
This one is in my opinion a better complaint, but i still think it was set up. Dr, Strange did give a ridiculously small chance that the avengers would beat thanos - maybe this was it.
iv) a ‘worse’ thanos
The claim that ‘everything about thanos died when his head was cut off’ is quite literally true. The thanos pulled from the past is quite literally a different thanos, and honestly, that’s nice. I see no way (sorry) that our new, cautious type thanos would’ve lost to the avengers, and this lazy ‘you do it’ attitude is quite literally what past-thanos was. It’s inconsistent plot-wise to have him be his infinty war self.
I think this also gives the scenes more emotional stake. That exchange between Scarlet and Thanos, displayed in this video in a way meant to highlight the problem with Thanos’s lack of a connection, really highlights why it’s not that bad. This man who they hate so much doesn’t even give a crap about them. Most of avengers will also never truly get their payback - their chance to avenge - on the Thanos who they despise so much.
But if he destroys the stones (as seen in the movie), no one is able to reverse it. The only way they could reverse the snap was a time travel gimmick, which doesn't make for a compelling story in my opinion.
Everett M the time travel is what made the movie such a compelling finale to me. Im not a massive marvel fan, but being able to go back and see some of these scenes i recognized was great entertainment to me.
And didn't Thanos have a big hole in his chest from Strombreaker and an arm messed up? He could use the stones right way, he was too weak.
@@andreshipp6212 you can see how messed up thanos is after using the stones once, and how frail and weak he looks after using it twice.
im sure we can pull up a lot of "what if" stories but thats after the point, everything said in the video is true but I dont think I personally would chance it. yes thonos as a flat villain and yes I can think of 100 reasons why is that, but the main point was that he is a flat villain.
@Thomas Johnson yes I know that it was, but it doesnt chance the fact that IW thanos was a better villain than the Endgame one
I actually did not think that Thonos was a worse version of Thanos, I just thought that here we saw how fucked up he actually is.
Right, he sees how much misery he actually caused (the sun certainly didn't set on a grateful universe) with his halving plan so instead of re-evaluating his life goal (and shitty Malthusian philosophy) he doubles down on his genocidal ideal.
@Super JLK You can't change the way a sociopath thinks. Thanos used people dying from a lack of resources as an excuse to do killing. He kills people who he doesn't love or that have no use for him. Thanos is egotistical socipath that enjoys killing people. I believe after killing so many people he got tired of doing it and wanted to retire but he couldn't stand people living their lives without them being grateful of him since no one was grateful of him before when he lived on Titan. When the 2014 Thanos saw his future self succeed but then killed he believed no one in the universe would be grateful of his plan so he thought killing everyone and then making a new universe would make people grateful. Overall 2014 Thanos is somewhat similar as 2018 Thanos but Thanos was just like fuck it no one will be grateful of what I did so I'll make new universe and then they will.
@Super JLK Dr. Strange tried to in Infinity War but he quickly gave up because Thanos wasn't convinced.
Gavin Singh The point is they didn't even try.
@@deaththegrimreaper1824
Did he actually say it wouldn't work? Or just that it was wrong to try because mass murder is bad?
For some reason i really liked the first part of endgame because i found it interesting to see the aftermath of infinity war.
Like so many movies show some drastic changes to their world but then dont actually show its consequences even a bit.
It was simply refreshing to see all the pain and emptiness the remaining people experienced and it also made me connect more to them than just your usual scene of someone dying and people having the big sad for 2 minutes.
Therapist: ThanosRat isn't real, he can't hurt you.
ThanosRat:
I don’t quite agree but I get what he’s trying to say
i totally dont agree
Hey, usually you have great analysis but in this video I feel there are a lot of points you made that I think are pretty weak. Like saying Thonos looks different? He’s not bluer, he’s just in an environment with different lighting. Thanos’ motivations were never selfless in nature, in the end he was a self-serving creature, therefore when you tried to point out Thonos acting a way Thanos wouldn’t, I couldn’t help think that was exactly what his character would do. If anything the big discrepancy is that Thonos is not as powerfully motivated as Thanos. Thanos’ plan to destroy the stones WAS to stop someone from getting them, but it was the heroes, not a new shoe-horned villain.
Furthermore, I think it’s silly to say the first part fails in part due to a lack of villain. The biggest problem was the pacing, but the weight of that part of the story was the emotion behind it. How these broken people have been coping and failing. The first section was setting up the following story, and I think adding an arbitrary villain would ruin that.
Additionally, I don’t think adding random chance into a story is necessarily a bad thing? It’s only really an issue if it distracts from the story, ultimately. If it personally distracted you? Okay, fine, that’s understandable. But random chance is a thing that happens in real life and I think especially in a story where our heroes are fighting against death itself having a couple things work out in their favor isn’t the end of the world. I feel you could likely point to many instances of this happening in other movies in the MCU library that worked just fine.
Now don’t get me wrong, I do believe there are some flaws with Endgame and I’m open to hearing why people think it could have done better. But I don’t think you argued your points very well. Most of these felt like things I’d hear from a cinemasins video.
Random chance(specifically hulk hitting Tony causing him to lose the teseract) is just stupid. Literally no logic or reason, just for the writers to say, hey, have this Loki spin off. Thnx. It's lazy, and there's no way anyone would forgive it if it weren't Marvel. Imagine DC doing that, the world would have ridiculed it for years. Some films have the message that life is random. In that case, random things happening works. If not, it doesn't. Just lazy writing.
I agree that new thanos motivation and stuff "makes sense". But the fact is this: Endgame would've been a lot better if they just continued with the Thanos storyline everyone already fell in love with.
its okey to have random chance at times, but when random chance drives your whole movie then you fucked up, most of the things you listed are your own opinions and references, when critiquing a movie youre suposed to be objective, there are righ and wrong ways of doing movies regardless of personal opinions, youre just letting your personal opinions gover your crteria here, objectively endgame its a badly done movie with an entertaining third act, objectively infinity war its a great movie.
thanos did look diferent, probably due to the CGI quality.
and i guess you got a point about it being the thanos of the past and thats why he behaves diferent, the one that sit and waits, but still he was badly handled, his scenes should have given us a more indepth look to the thanos we got in infinity war since hes already dead and we cant get any more exposition from a corpse, thonos should have been a walking backstory for inifinity wars thanos, as in he should have been a little more than a statue for the entire movie, maybe have some dialogues here and there that make you think "damn, this guy is right again".
i agree on your point about the arbitrary villiain, but the movie did need a villiain and the lack of it did make the first part boring as heck, personally i would have had thonos find out about the time travel and the avengers plan, but instead of waiting like astatue for shit to get to him, he decides perhaps out of pride after seeing his future self succed and then murdered by some salty losers, that he'll take the satisfaction of destroying those salty losers himself, and so he starts chasing them through time, but since he seems to give a fuck about the balance of the universe, instead of trying to take the stones from them, hes chasing them through time to kill them so that they dont change anything, because for thanos it all works out in the end so he doesnt need to take the stones from their corresponding timelines, he just needs to hunt them down, and while he fucked them up in infinity war, the stakes are diferent here, they know not to go toe to toe with him, and he is forced to excersice caution to avoid altering the timelines, this would create an actual time chase between the avengers and thanos trying to hunt them down, maybe he kills one or two, heavy toll, but for the greater good of bringin everyone back, it would also ad much more emotional weight to the movie.
Plus his nitpicking with the poor rat and how he didn't understand that Tony didn't just invent time travel in a evening, it's the culmination of years of Michael Pym's work and it's implied that the weird shape which i forgot the name of was his 999999th try.
@@nuddle7726 i agree on the iron man part, i mean im the first one to roll my eyes to the back of my skull whenever something iron man related drives the plot, which is 90% of the time in the MCU, but the part with the time machine wasnt iron man just randomly coming up with time travel, it was made pretty clear in the movie that he got the idea from what they discuss after scotts lang return, and while it did feel like he just instantly came up with it, you gotta keep in mind iron man has his own advanced AI, the AI can probably run simulation after simulation in one afternoon, it isnt that far fetched in a science fiction ruled universe, either way time travel story was a terrible choice after the masterpiece that was infinity war.
but the fucking rat come on, that was stupid as fuck, anyone could have wrote something more believable, in fact here are some alternatives:
- some guy trying to steal shit from the warehouse presses a bunch of buttons my accident while searching inside the van.
-the irresponsible caretaker that looks after the warehouse takes his kid sometimes and the little brat plays around with the stuff inside, presses a bunch of buttons and scott is back.
-scotts daughter and the " anoying curious friend" trope or whatever are checking on scotts old stuff searching for something, the friend gets on the van and gets curious about the odd looking console, presses some buttons and scott is back.
its not hard to come up with less random scenarios, they just got fucking lazy, watching endgame after infinity war makes this pretty clear, they knew people were going to watch the movie because of how great infinity war was, and the movie reeks of it, its still an entertaining movie and the last fight its fucking awesome, but thats about it, i cant even remember most of the movie anymore because of how forgettable most of it is.
Here's the thing: It wasn't a series of random events, it was the one sequence of events chosen by Dr Strange.
He looked through every possible option and the only one he could come up with was this super unlikely turn of events where they utterly fail, 5 years passes, the rat wanders across Ant Man's control panel, Tony invents time travel and they Ironinity Gauntlet everyone back in to existence only for Thanos to lose.
I don't feel this creates as many problems as I don't really see Endgame as its own movie but rather Infinity War 2: Heroic Boogaloo, but eh.
I'm not saying this is the best possible reason it just kinda... it isn't 'random' in the long run. It was Dr Strange's least shitty outcome.
A universe where Gamora and Black Widow die permanently, where the entire universe is thrown in to chaos, Loki is freed with the space stone in hand able to cause immeasurable space-hopping havok and that was the BEST possible outcome. Woof.
"Doctor strange"
"Why did you say that name?!"
I really liked that Endgame took a break at the beginning.
Same. I think it gave us a lot of good character moments and time to get re-invested in the characters to make their loss more impactful going forward as unlike with the snap in Infinity War, there is no intention of bringing these characters back.
There is such thing as too much action at the expense of story and it's something that I feel a lot of modern movies suffer from; that's definitely not the case with Endgame.
Yeah and I think it makes sense because the characters just took a massive L
Exactly💯💯💯 you guys all said what i was thinking🤙
I was just bored, plus all these pseudo-philosophical dialogs and motives looked weak and out of place. Maybe if you are a huge fan of Marvel you will be happy just watching these guys doing nothing, but for me, it was just dull.
@@Omgtired why would you watch endgame if you're not a huge marvel fan? I doubt any casual viewer watched all 22 MCU movies, and since it's pointless watching Endgame without watching all the previous MCU movies, it's not for casuals, so yes, the slow dialogs and breaks they had for half of the movie were great, and my favorite parts of the movie.
He destroyed the stones two days ago because he had to destroy them, but first he had to rest because he was too much damaged from the first time he used them.
In defense of the random aspects of Endgame, in IW Strange said he saw more than 14 million outcomes, and only 1 where they could win, therefore the only possible outcome that had all the random events (the rat, etc) happen. It may be lazy writting, but it was established in the previous movie
haha yeah, and as soon as Strange hinted to Ironman that this was that one - the whole sequence of events would then be without real stakes. Does this imply "free will" does not exist in the MCU? ;-)
@@Anon282828 No, not at all. Anyone could easily chose to do something else.
@@Anon282828
Free will doesn't exist period. It doesn't exist in the MCU. Unless you believe causality and determinism don't function there.
@@pseudonymousbeing987 Causality works fine in classical physics, in quantum physics not so much. To me, the existence (or non-existence) of 'free will' is undecidable. We can't determine through any kind of experiment whether we have "free will" or just the "illusion of free will". If two things cannot be told apart, perhaps there is no difference to begin with.
Anon28 Honest question: did you like The Matrix Reloaded?
Let's keep in mind Tony only invented the gps, Hank invented the time machine without realizing it.
He wants to create a new universe because in his mind, he realizes that the Avengers will never accept what he did at the end of Infinity War. This is backed up when he is monologuing before fighting Cap, Iron Man and Thor.
its backed up because the movie literally tells us thats the way it should be. thats not good writing.
@@henry7696 his rationale for infinity war is literally a monologue yet people think he is good
Russell Robertson because one establishes his character while the other contradicts it.
Russell Robertson also if it was just the case of knowing the Avengers were just trying to undo his actions, he could just ummm kill the Avengers and leave the rest of his plan the same. Thanos shouldn’t be saying screw the universe over something a small group of people did.
†ooli C so basically destroying what the IW Thanos was trying to save? No I’m not retarded or in a head canon. I’m taking the info and the movie context that IW Thanos was presented as. Thanos in IW was actively trying to save the universe from overpopulation and a lack of resources. This was because of that happening on his home world. It is established in IW that he only wishes the wipe out half of all life since it would be the only way to save what remained of life. And regardless if he couldn’t predict time travel doesn’t change the fact that he did say screw every being in the universe over something the Avengers alone did.
The rat is the one above all stepping in to get the story going.
Yeah... But Endgame had so much good will and momentum behind it that it's weaknesses never really bubble to the surface, in my mind
But every point you brought up is absolutely valid
The time travel (so like, the whole second acts) is the worst part of the movie. Boring, no real stakes, just a filler. They could have done so much more.
GhostGamer PL I honestly didn’t see it that way. Seeing everyone prepare to go the past made the movie feel like it had a clear direction again. These scenes both had plot relevance and payed homage to previous Marvel movies as well.
And I didn’t feel as though stakes were completely absent either (the whole time in Tony Stark’s tower) but I can see how some might not like the direction taken in some places.
@@bobbyferg9173 The snap is such a praised moment in Infinity War, it was just reversed too damn easy.
EndGame is an good movie, It is nowhere great as infinity war, It is heavily flawed, I Loved Endgame, But i've always noticed it was pretty much flawed to start with
However, I'll note that this film is good for one reason, Because the MCU Existed, Anyone who never saw the MCU ain't caring about Endgame, For them it seems just like an shitty movie, And the snap wans't reversed "too damn easy", They tried to reverse the snap by kiling thanos at first, Then it took 5 years for them to try again
However, Here is an big problem
The 5 Years, Are yes show, But not properly, In the end, it feels like everything happened within maximum a few days, And other thing to note, Is while the snap happened minimum 2 days ago, Those days also weren't show
Without Infinity War, There is no endgame, But the existance of infinity war itself, Makes Endgame worse, Which is ironic
GhostGamer PL Thing is I dont know if they couldve done it any other way. Like I love Endgame, but Infinity war is 100% better. I just dont know how Endgame couldve been done better
The moment Thonos said this is personal to a group of people who he's never met and who just inconvenienced him for an hour, I knew I didn't like Thonos anymore.
He didn't just try to figure out time travel. He was working on it since he got back from earth but didn't figure it out. Scot lang (ant man) told him about quantum space (i think that's what its called) helped him figure it out.Still totally agree with your point
I don't think he was working on it since he came back, so much as he's just a brilliant scientist and he's probably looked into it at some point in his life and come to the conclusion that it didn't work, or was even told by others how and why it couldn't work. He dismisses the Pym Particles because, although neither he nor anyone else had considered them before, it was so settled into his brain as a "fact" that time travel is impossible that he already "knows" that they won't work, but just to be sure he tests it out in his computer and "HOLY SH*T IT WORKS?!"
Same with Hulk. I simply assume that the world is filled with scientists who are also nerds who like talking sci-fi amongst themselves and theorising about it, not that Tony was necessarily working on it in that 5 year gap.
@@jonathancampbell5231 The Russo Brothers said he was working on it but gave up but I could be getting that from bad sources so you could be right
Nebula and rhodey should have fought Ronan's thugs
I think it would be kinda unnecessary.
Or they could u know make out having nebula riding that big black chocolate bar while Rhodes be tearing that blueberry booty
@@optimusprime8609 no. you aren't funny.
@@joshmciver4847 u might be laughing behind that screen
@@optimusprime8609 lol nobody wants to see that
1:28 because that's the most scientifically accurate consequence to time travel, according to quantum mechanics. It isn't just "convenient to the plot", it actually makes sense. It isn't just time travel, it's 5-dimensional travel.
Exactly. Let alone that multiverses are a huge thing in comics of both Marvel and DC. BTTF time travel is pretty to look at, but it doesn't make sense. Its end should have 2 Marties. The one in the new future timeline with the rich parents and the old one that travelled in time. The movie treats past Marty as the present Marty. Are you saying that the future timeline stayed frozen until Marty came back from the past?
I mean... If we get sciebtific here, the Quatum world does not have anything to do with time travel. So...
@@andresviteri8589 Are you sure? lol
You are right, but his point still stands in that it does hinder consequences. And it doesn't have to be the way they do time travel. We're talking about a universe where a man was induced with so much Radiation that he lived and became a large green titan strength being. I'm not sure if Science can say that's actually possible, but I don't believe it is. The main point is that although it's scientifically accurate, it doesn't have to be and sometimes shouldn't be.
@@andresviteri8589 What? Yes, it does, that's the whole thing with Quantum Mechanics, primarily with time dilation.
You really didn’t understand Thanos’s motivations that well. He’s not a saint. We’ve seen him taking over and enslaving planets before. The only reason he wanted to do the snap was to prove to himself that his plan to save his people would have worked. So when he sees from his future self that the snap ultimately won’t work, he decides that the only way to make the world better is to destroy everything and start over. Thanos never cared about the individuals. If he did, he never would have gone through with his original plan in the first place.
The issue is that if Thanos can just create a whole new universe, why can't he just create infinite resources? Or just create another universe and make half of the population move to that universe instead? Like it was mentioned in the Cinemasins video.
It completely ruins Thanos' motivation because it makes his more extreme actions in Infinity War and Endgame pointless and obsolete.
@@mlgamings6110 In my mind, Thanos never really cared about the universe. He just uses that reasoning as an excuse for his warmongering.
@@ArifRWinandar Honestly this refit fixes a big chunk of his motivation. Nothing like a villain's obsession being "well I'm not WRONG though, see" and making the same mistakes over and over again.
Tony didn’t figure time travel out his first try, he even says something like that to his operator.
Flop God Ya but this is the first time we are seeing him do it so it doesn’t really matter that he just tells us
He does it in one night
doesn't matter, they are not following the rule of "show, don't tell" of good story telling
Bruno Moreno it’s a 3 hour movie. I don’t want to see Tony struggling for 3-5 mins just to make it seem “hard” how he figured it out. This is why the quantum realm was set up in the 1st Ant-Man movie (2015).
Show, don't tell