Pretty please Can you post a direct link to the exact manometer that you use as can't seem to find it via the ebay link that you've provided :). Thanks!
Hi Sam, there's a bit of a story behind this, when I did my testing I had a leak but could not trace it, checked all my joints they were sound. Turned out to be the manometer and pump that was letting by so I had a brainwave, a blood pressure cuff!! It has a mercury gauge and pumps very accurate. So I brought one off eBay for £11 and cut the tubes used the gauge and the pump and it worked absolutely flawlessly, well happy with it. Here is the link rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-53481-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5575265109&campid=5338027957&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fitm%2FNylon-Cuff-Blood-Pressure-Monitor-Stethoscope-Sphygmomanometer-Manual-BP-KIT%2F223145088865%3FssPageName%3DSTRK%253AMEBIDX%253AIT%26_trksid%3Dp2057872.m2749.l2649 150mbar = 112.5mm Hg (it's what the gauge reads in) I left mine on test all day and it never dropped one bit, well happy.
Hi Greg, did you do the test with or without the truma connected? Just reading through instruction manual to install mine and on page 26 my understanding is that you’re supposed to disconnect the truma! Seems ridiculous to me as that’s the whole point of testing. Interested on your thoughts!?
I especially like the way Greg, gives his information freely, no trying to screw money out of you and no hidden agenda, there are not many of these people left... sadly.
It's not about the money Ed, for once it's something that gives me a greater satisfaction and fulfilment. I really want to try and fill a huge void of missing information here and help as many self-builders as possible to get proper information. Building your own van is something that I think anybody can do with the right help and tools to achieve it. There's nothing more satisfying than helping someone else and seeing how your efforts have benefitted them and made them happy. I make a small amount of ad revenue and affiliate links which is great, it's more about the community.
And you do it with such professionalism too Greg. I have been researching my van build for months now, and like you say there is either an abundance of wrong or useless info out there, but not so much of the good stuff.... which is why I subscribed to your channel. Keep it up.
Something I've not seen another Van Conversion DIY do is look up, study and apply the proper codes for Gas. These codes are written of experience/applied science and exist for the greater good. This presentation is professional and concise, what a great teaching tool. Thanks again
Another bible for camper van converters. Having watched 100s of conversion videos I don’t recall many being compliant. Really useful information Greg, thank you.
Thank you, there's nobody enforcing these standards so you can pretty much get away with what you want at the moment. But if you are building your own van would you not want to make it as safe as possible? I think it makes sense to follow the standards. Hope this video helps many others.
@@GregVirgoe Totally agree Greg, BS/EN/ISOs will be based on best practice, so for the sake of self and public safely why not follow the Standard. Again thanks for sharing your research. Happy to donate £20 towards the cost of you acquiring and sharing the standard, if you have a page?
I’m doing my sprinter this year, I’ve been YouTubing the subject now for two months gaining as much knowledge as possible and Greg makes everyone else here look like amateurs 😂, what a wealth of information, fantastiq
CONGRATULATIONS..,.,.,you explained these regulations like a true pro.,i dont have qualifications for install or testing lpg but am a NG commercial/domestic engineer and i know how hard it is to understand and constantly sit exams to keep my licences updated...i learned so much from your explanation of bsi/en regs..they can be so confusing.......your attention to detail is what made your install SAFE and you had confidence if any thing were to happen such as RTA...where emergency services have to deal with the cylinder etc,,,,,,
hi greg i am a lpg gas eng your video was spot on the only thing i would say is to take a look at the alde bubble tester this is fitted in line and all you have to do is press the red button and hold it down if there are bubbles in the see through part you have a leak you can test you gas as often as you like i fit a lot of them on boats. hope this helps
Thank you so much for this very important information! I am designing a van build and I have been quite shocked at how many people let their propane tanks roll around in a drawer in their van’s living space.
This is a great video. I've done everything myself with my own initiative, but gas safety is where I draw the line. This has told me everything I need to know. Thank you.
My father was an engineer and a great handyman, like yourself. He would set his hand to anything and everything, but he wouldn't touch gas. So, there's no way I'd give it a go, despite your excellent explanation once again, Greg. I'll know what to look for, when I'm checking what the gas fitter is doing, though. ;)
As always Greg, your informational videos are brilliant. No nonsense and detailed. As someone else commented, your delivery on how you speak and deliver the information is extremely good. No Muss no fuss. No stupid music, just the facts. Nice one !
Thanks from a curious RV technician in Canada. By the way, this confirmed the suspicions I had watching some european van conversion videos and thinking that the gas intallations were wrong.
Brilliant information explained clearly and concisely as always Greg. One caveat to this is that (after extensive conversations with Truma), it is perfectly fine to install a (specifically) Truma flue underneath or within 300mm of an opening window (not door) providing a Truma window switch has been installed. This detects a broken seal when said window is opened at automatically shuts the boiler off to prevent any exhaust gas re-entering the vehicle. There may be an equivalent available for other manufacturers but that's for one's own research!
Great presentation Greg. Thanks for your efforts. LPG installations can be SO dangerous. In Australia, we have a requirement that a gas drop vent is required under each gas appliance as well as in the storage box. Also that the main pipe run (rigid) is fitted outside vehicle and then T'd off through the floor at each individual appliance (ie no Ts inside vehicle). Also, and more importantly, the final requirement for road certification (ie ability to gain insurance cover) of a home-built canpervan is that the gas installation is approved by a qualified gas fitter, who then takes on the legal responsibility if there is an accident involving insurance issues. Same requirement for 240v installation, with a certified electrician. Doing the job is only half the battle, finding the tradesman willing to take the risk and sign off on your work can be difficult.
Once again, Greg's provided *the* definitive content on a DIY conversion topic. In this case, LPG. Thanks for sharing this fantastic detail on LPG in DIY conversions. The value you provide with your content is second to none. Very thorough. Wonderfully presented.
Hi Greg If you need to use a tool to connect the gas then yes the work has to be done a gas safe engineer ....Not so many of us gas engineers hold the lpg element Great stuff..
If you don't make the effort, like Greg, to build it to the standards you obviously have never seen a gas explosion. Google it! A recent incident on the news in Australia showed a truck (Lorry) being used to move house. It went past an intersection camera and moments later debris flew back in the opposite direction. Turns out a leaking barbecue cylinder filled the floor of the cargo section and leaked out to the hot exhaust. The truck was obliterated and the driver killed. Be like Greg. Another great, informative video. Thanks Greg. Funny, in Australia the standard states pipe must non-ferrous, so basically copper but no steel.
A bloody marvellous video. I would just like to point out that if you are a university student or alumni then your university likely has access to the British Standards so you'll be able to get hold of them for free rather than paying the extortionate amount that Greg probably had to pay!
Greg, this series has helped me a huge amount. I ended up with an external tank installed under the tail because of German regs. Must say I struggled to get close to the neatness of your installation. Hat off to you. If I may, some comments on LPG for Germany based on my experiences. Hope it helps others as yours have. 1 - The system you have with Gaslow us not yet clearly approved, falls into a grey area and is currently being reviewed. Similar systems using Truma dual control are also affected. Issue is that although the controls are approved, tanks are approved, you're not allowed to use flexible pipes to connect fixed gas tanks. Oddly, you can fit dual removable tanks in a gas locker connected with flexible hoses and your Gaslow switch overs. 2 My impression is that steel piping is most often used, not copper. I ended up using steel. It's very hard work to bend. Even with a bender like the one you used. The compression fittings need a lot more tightening than copper and what I thought was tight, certainly a lot tighter than you needed on copper, leaked. 3 It's a requirement to get the system inspected and certified by a qualified body. This is usually a local caravan/camper place. Must be repeated for each Tüv - MOT equivalent. Tanks must be certified every 10 years. 4 There are labelling requirements as well. 5 Doing it yourself is quite straightforward as you've shown, many caravan centres are used to self builds and willing to advise, but not all. 6 Using the combi heater while you're driving is legal and safe, so long as a crash cut off is properly installed. I don't intend to do this, but had one installed for extra safety. 7 You must only run one appliance off a single 8mm pipe. Couldn't make out if this was a legal or practical requirement. 10mm pipe is only allowed up to a manifold. So I have 10mm to the electric shut off like yours, a very short 8mm connection to a manifold, separate feeds without T pieces to each appliance. Manifold has taps to shut off supply to individual appliances. 8 Main German fittings maker seems to be GOK. They have a really useful brochure detailing layouts, the supply components which is really helpful. 'Lösungen für Flüssiggas in Freizeitfahrzeugen' 9 For users of refillable bottles with German threads, adapters are available so they can be refilled in countries which don't use the German fittings.
Please don’t shoot the messenger 😂😂😂 everybody has a comment when most people would have no idea how to do a lot of this. Mechanic here, learnt a lot for when I come to build my own van
Greg you've got my model Bus on your T-Shirt :) Thanks for such a detailed explaination, I'm alway horified when I see people using the gas heater inside their van, especially when they compain about the moisture without giving a second thought to how the Carbon Monoxied that is damaging their brains. I think this video will have a two fold effect, 1, it will make people do it right if they are DIY and 2, it will make people realise how spending the money to get a professional to do it it worth it. It was good to put in the sad story about the boat owner, and it reinforces the need for floor vents to take away any leaking gas. Live the dream and live it long, may your firm pipe work get all the attention it needs!
I think with LPG you need to give it a regular check over as well once it's installed. A moving, flexing and vibrating environment like a van is going to pretty harsh, fittings may become loose, and so on. It's not going to be 100% fit and forget. Thanks for another great vid!
Fully agree. In Germany there's a compulsory certification by a qualified technician on conversion and every 2 years afterwards. This must be done before the MOT equivalent (Tuev, which is every 2 years).
Greg your an absolute legend! Your info series is excellent and exactly what I need for my upcoming van build, your my go to for van conversion info and I thank you, if I ever meet you I owe you a beer/coffee at least.
Another informative, well presented vid Greg, thank you. It's also appreciate with you taking the time to read though EN1949. My thoughts are that with electric it bites and more often than not, you get a second chance, however when you smell gas, it can kill you and others nearby. I've a LPG Tester advising me and you're so on the mark with your comments.
Sunnycampers I really do appreciate your comment. It’s so important for people doing self builds to make sure their installations are safe. Not only for themselves but also those camped around them. Thank you 😊
very well explained! i just have 2 observations, the difference between butane and propane need discussing and, in my view, the cause of the dreadful boat explosion is normally lack of a 'drain' for the leaking gas. ie. its is vital any escaping gas, as you say is heaver than air, need to be thought of as water, and will 'pool' if not drained away! typically in a boat you can't fit a vent to allow the gas to escape! in fact it may look stupid, but you have to bucket the gas out of a boat as you would water. great videos, keep up the good work
I hadn't had time to research prevention for boats and obviously a "drop out" vent in the boat isn't going to be very practical ;D I'm guessing detection is the key to alert the occupants on board?
Greg Virgoe hi Greg, first I think your videos are great, this is only my constructive comment, maybe helpful to others, gas on a boat is so dangerous in my view it must be on ‘topside’ and vented, and folks to be aware if they smell gas, it must evacuate below deck, and bucket the gas out, sounds daft, and looks daft, ........ Also in freezing conditions, butane (blue bottles) will not work. And may seem empty, so be carful. A little knowledge is ...... etc....
Greg, LPG is a mix of Butane and Propane. When the average ambient temperature is colder the national blend for LPG will have more Propane - the more expensive gas. In countries that have warmer temps, there is little Propane. The reason for this is to start the gas flowing the liquid in the pressure cylinder needs to vapourise to make gas. If a cylinder contained only Butane it boils at -4°c. If it was say -10° outside the liquid would not produce gas.
That really interesting I didn't know that, thank you for sharing your knowledge. So does that mean that in different countries in Europe I could be filling up with a different blend? Can you foresee any problems there when travelling to different climates?
You may notice a difference if you compare times for cooking as the energy properties of Propane and Butane are different. The only difference you might find that gives a problem is if you were to return to UK with a Butane rich blend from "Meditterraniumland" and try to use it in a very cold part of UK. Bring cylinder into a warm place to warm up first - and be quick, once started it should self perpetuate ..... unless very cold. In Turkey we used to deliver roughly 4 parts propane and 1 part butane for them to blend.
Dam it! This Vlog convinced me to keep my log burner. Gas seems so dangerous; the missus had a bottom burb halfway through this, I jumped out of the van into the fresh air.
4:18 when he said "there will be a test..." I thought he was going to continue "...at the end of this lesson so make sure you pay attention". I went white as a sheet, took me back to my schooldays!
Thanks Greg, I have been watching all you van build videos - all are most excellent! Glad I watch this one!! My kitchen unit for our camper van came NEW with a hob and grill fitted with a gas hose attached. Having read the hob installation instructions for the hob it states do not use rubber hose. I won't name and shame the supplier but I will have a word with them. Best I remove the unit and fit some copper pipe!! Thanks again
Hi Greg! Another thorough, informative, most-excellent video! I’ve also done lots of research as to the best way to route my gas piping for my van build. Reading the various online forums, everyone seems to have a slightly different approach that they feel is “right”. Here in the US, there is no nationwide governing body that regulates this. Our home building codes, for example, are all at the state, county, and city level (at least to my knowledge). What might be acceptable in one locality might not apply in another town just a few miles away. Of course, the city codes must comply with the county codes and these must in turn comply with the state codes. Obviously this means that hard and fast regulations for RVs that apply across the country are non-existent. Otherwise you might not be able to cross state lines! When doing a van or any sort of conversion such as a skoolie here in the US, it’s pretty much an anything-goes affair (at least from a legal standpoint). There is no governing body that inspects your work, as is the case in more “civilized” places like New Zealand, for example.There are some industry “standards”, but these are little more than suggestions. Again, this is based on my research and I could be incorrect. (I’m quite sure your viewers will make me aware of any inaccuracies.) Therefore, I decided to take the tack of more closely following the ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) standards (pun intended). I figure if it’s good enough for the confined spaces found in a boat that’s subject to all the stress of the open ocean, it’s probably sufficient for a van. I’m installing a horizontal LPG tank beneath my van. The regulator will be attached directly to the tank with threaded copper fittings, and from there I will use black iron pipe to a manifold with a shut-off valve for each appliance. From each valve, more black iron pipe will be run along the bottom of the van and then up through a sealed grommet, penetrating the van floor immediately below the location of each appliance. Effectively a star network topology, in geek-speak. :-) From there I will run rubber gas hose (which is approved by the ABYC and UL) directly to the appliance. While copper piping is also approved by the ABYC, I prefer to use rubber because I am concerned about the hardening (and possible fracture) that copper tubing is subject to under vibration, which is common in a van, especially when driving down washboard dirt roads. As I am sure you are aware, this is the same reason one uses stranded rather than solid copper for all wiring. I’m curious what you and your readers (in particular those here in the states), think about my approach. Note that many RV manufactures such as Winnebago use black iron pipe for the gas lines beneath the RV, so I didn’t come up with this method on my own. Given the huge liability that manufacturers such as Winnebago are subject to, I’m guessing (hoping?) they’ve researched this extensively. Cheers! Pete
Hello Pete, you have done your homework and a great comment thank you. Your infrastructure under the van sounds really excellent and robust. With the black iron pipe, I'm assuming you are threading the pipe and using threaded fittings with gas safe PTFE? So there is some potential for leaks there, but they are all outside the van so no harm just possible loss of gas. A plastic coated copper coil would still give protection and eliminate the joints. Obviously, the rubber hose inside does not conform to the European Standard for fixed appliances. I totally understand what you are saying because I too would expect the final connection at least to be flexible in a moving vehicle, but no. It makes sense to me to run a continuous coil unit the last 300mm or so from a local isolating valve to the appliance. If you place "drop-out" vents under each appliance and some means of gas detection in your van you will have a very safe system. Great work Pete and thanks for the excellent feedback.
Thanks for detailed, response, Greg. Much appreciated given how popular your channel has become (and deservedly so). I completely agree with everything you've said in your reply and most definitely plan on using propane-approved pipe dope on the black pipe fittings. I still might opt for copper piping inside the van. I've gone back and forth a half dozen times (at least!). As long as one supports copper tubing at closely spaced intervals and at each bend, this should help prevent unrestrained flexing which can work harden the copper, possibly causing it to split. Rubber hose does not have that problem, although it too must be well supported. It's difficult to say how common work-hardening actually is. Could be more of a theoretical problem. But boy, I hate to be a guinea pig and find out the hard way! I'm a member of several RV and marine/sailing forums and everyone seems to have a different approach and of course thinks theirs is the "right way". You'd think with all the RVs out there that by now there would be a standard method, but sadly, there is not. I'm certain your installation is top notch and will provide you with many years of safe, reliable service. Looking forward to your next video!
Hello Pete, I wouldn't advise to use rubber hoses inside your camper. They are ageing, therefore they are not as safe as a rigid piping. What Greg didn't mention in his video, the rubber hose which connects the cylinder to the rigid piping, must be changed after ten years, at least in Germany.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I understand that the hose must be replaced, but ten years is a long time and the runs from below the van to each appliance will be quite short (about a meter, give or take) and are easily replaced. I'll have three: one to my range/oven, one to my Truma Aquago water heater (great German engineering on that device!), and one to my Dickinson Marine fireplace/heater. As I said, I might still decide to use copper tubing, but since rubber hose seems to be the preferred choice in a marine environment, one would think it would also work well in an RV or van. I don't believe there is a definitive answer as to which is better, as long as both are properly installed. Again, I appreciate your advice and will take it into consideration when I reach that point in my build! :-)
Thank you for the time you took to explain all of this very important safety information. You made a topic that could easily have been boring into a very educational and engaging video. You explained the physics behind the reasons why the rules are the way they are. Thank you!
NotSunkYet I really wanted to get this one out there because I see so many installation that are just ticking time bombs. If it saves a few people it would be so worth the effort and cost. 👍🏼😊
Greg Virgoe I cant agree more mate.....I’ve seen boats blow up because of unqualified installation....not nice seeing the results floating in the water 😔
Out of interest when I converted my van I discovered that the European Standards issued by the UK were originally British standards just rebadged. So don’t blame the Europeans. But I used Greg’s advice to make a super van.
Haha, certainly no offence taken, and to be honest I think it's probably perfectly accurate, given that I'm sure I saw a plumber do it somewhere, and simply copied as you said. Though I'm not actually building a van conversion presently (maybe one day!), I still think your videos are invaluable. Your diligence and professionalism is clearly evident. I hope that you feel sufficiently rewarded for your efforts, either in terms of simple gratitude, but hopefully a bit of cash from TH-cam also. If you continue to present videos in the manner that you have so far, I have no doubt that your following will grow exponentially. Good luck Greg, and many thanks for your work and your comment. Take care.
Excellent. Considering I didn't have access to the standard, I'm pleased to say mine is pretty much compliant. Wish you'd done this video a year ago mind you ;-)
Yes, David, you did a very good job with your recent van conversion. Sorry, I'm a bit late for you ;D Anyone reading these comments please go and check out David's channel and his van build series. I highly recommend it.
David, a question for you inspired by Peter Connolly comment. How did you deal with the potential for LPG leaks on your narrowboat as you can't go drilling big holes in the floor?
Greg Virgoe The gas locker where the bottles are stored has two side vents at floor level, a few inches above the waterline. Inside the boat there is no drop venting (for obvious reasons, namely sinking!) which is why some boats (although surprisingly few, I'll wager) have LPG alarms in the cabin bilge, typically at the back (lowest point). When you're back from your travels, do pop up and have a day on the boat!
Hi there Greg ! chose to go electric + diesel heating so I can skip Gas altogether... plus I can put it under the van... winning some room... and weight ( I hope ) ! as usual : all respect for your thoroughness! top job!
Here is some information specific to the USA. The laws for passenger vehicles/van conversions in the US set by the DOT defer to the NFPA, National Fire Protection Association. The sections of NFPA 58 that pertain to us are 6.26 and 11.9. There is room for debate here as to whether 6.26 or 11.9 is more accurately applied. This is because 6.26 excludes RV's with installed systems. 6.26 is for disposables and refillables. 11 in general is discussing propane engines but 6.26 does a redirect to 11.9, very confusing. Per 6.26 we need a vapor tight enclosure that has two vents to the outside top and bottom, an outside hatch for emergency personnel to remove the propane container(s), the venting must be 3 feet away from any other holes in the side of the van that lead to the passenger compartment, it must be sturdy enough to withstand 4x the weight of the propane container(s) in ANY direction. The container(s) must be securely fastened to the interior of the compartment (think about how fire extinguishers mount). Per 11.9 we only need a vapor tight enclosure that vents to the outside. I think the vent hole diameter was 1" but not certain. Thank you for being so thorough with your description of the European standards, I think this was the best discussion of propane I have seen and I did a ton of propane research! Publication 58 was a very lengthy document but was too confusing. Could you follow up this video to show us more of exactly how you made your enclosure and attached your fittings? Or is that already in your cabinetry video? I haven't decided whether I want the risk or hassle of propane. I may just expand my solar capacity and reduce my expectations, like cook outside, wear wool etc. If I do propane then I am going to do it right and meet both US and European standards.
Susan Nichols -- By my knowing European safety standards are higher, so doing a mix of your regulations more towards European standards are safer. Per example: the 1" outlet in the cabinet seems to me rather small, if a leakage would happen I would like to see the gas leaving this compartment a lot faster from a bigger vent in the bottom... There is never any risk or downside in doing things better and more secure compared to those minimal standard rules from an authority as NFPA , and it give me a better feeling in over securing that gas storage in the van. You only could get thumbs up!
Well it seems me being a retired senior process/quality engineer in the automotive & construction industry has it's benefits after all 😉 Thanks once again Greg for the superb information👍
Hi Greg, I do think with your skills and knowledge you could easily make a business for yourself in van fitouts, however they are a labour of love ! Very useful information indeed, I was going to fit a cooker inside a studio and the bottled gas inside. Me thinks that will definitely go outside and have a run of copper to the inside to the cooker.
That sounds like a very wise move, make sure you have the bottles in a locked cage or small locked shed with vents at high and low level, means of local isolation and the appropriate warning signs fitted. Thanks for watching
You can get a gas sniffer , you just turn it on and follow all the pipe work and if there is any leaks it will buzz, no buzzing and you have no leaks you can get a cheap one on EBay for around £30 one of my sons use one all the time in his job as a gas engineer mostly fixing gas leaks , he says it’s the easiest way to find any leaks .
By far the most informative, inspirational van build series, I´m so thankfull for your hard work putting these together Greg :) Huge respect from Sweden, stay safe
Greg, long time watcher, first time commenter and mate this video has been absolutely fantastic to watch, the way you articulated the regulations was easy and simple to understand, thank you so much for your time and dedication put towards these videos.
Excellent video and information Greg. Like you I have found it difficult to obtain all the relevent info for installing LPG in a van. The info you provide is priceless. Thanks :)
Hi Greg, it is me again... concerning the straps for the gas bottles (LPG), in Germany, you have to fix them with a secured band which can only be detached with tools. Exactly the other way around :-) The reason is, while filling the bottle, you could tilt it, and then the 80% filling control is not working, and the bottle could be over filled. That is, why the bottles have to installed fixed, and cannot be removed without any tool.
If you fill from a connection on the side of the van the bottle doesn’t get touched at all. The reason the straps are done simply by hand is so they can be removed easily if needed.
@@GregVirgoe And this is, what is not allowed in Germany. LPG bottles are not supposed to be removed easily... they have to be fixed insite the compartment. You cannot use the „normal“ fixing, unfortunately.
Greg, Big thank you for the time it's taken researching all the correct specifications, sharing with others in your usual precise way "This video will save lives" 👍 🚐
Thx for these informations, I saw some really unsafe installations some days ago...recommended your vid to them, hope that they will watch this here and didn`t blow their vans up... :-) Have fun!
Please watch my previous Truma heater installation video, I'm installing the gas pipe to the boiler. th-cam.com/video/zCjygu0ygKE/w-d-xo.html I also will have a further video coming out on the gas cylinder due for release very soon.
I plan on fitting a Diesel heater in my van. I would assume the Flue regulations are the same. Great video. So much research goes into your content I am surprised you have time to build the van.
I cannot say for definite, but I would guess the termination of flue near windows and doors etc will also apply to diesel. It's been a labour of love Chris, The van would have been finished in a third of the time if I was not filming and editing. But I'm also enjoying the whole TH-cam part of the build and being able to help others is so very rewarding.
Funny how most autogas/underslung fill points are in the driver’s side B pillar - LPG engineers pass these as gas safe regularly despite proximity to an opening door. GAS IT recommend for underslung systems where the fill point is in the habitational area, that a rubber boot and moplin tube be used to room seal the fill point so any leaked gases can vent safely through the floor.
It does seems a little silly, but unfortunately it's how these things work. The people who write the standards want to get paid for writing them, as do the proofreaders & lawyers who clear them for publication. The costs have to be spread over the number of copies they expect to sell; it's not the latest Harry Potter so the chances of selling millions of copies are zero. I imagine the sales of some technical publications would barely get into 3 figures, so they're more expensive, whereas more common ones sell for less - for example the 18th edition electrical regs are around £30, because every qualified electrician and electrical student needs to own a copy therefore they sell in the (possibly tens of) thousands.
The reason it seems a little silly to me is because someone could potentially injure them self but trying to save a few quid. Form a H&S point of view there should be central funding for projects like this to offset some of the cost, to make the whole thing a bit more accessible and we would have safer conversions as a result of this. knowledge is power and with how strict other regulations are surrounding vehicles in regard to safety, it would be in the best interest for the public to have this information.
If each person who already viewed this vid contributed $0.05usd to a pool, there would be enough to cover the purchase of the PDF...and then post it on a torrent site...because essentially they're saying that people who cannot afford it cannot have the knowledge for personal safety and the safety of others
Love your videos. Watched it, although I'm planning my van only on diesel and electrics. I don't want to have any lpg in my van. Shower water will be heated through the cars cooling system. Heating with diesel. Fridge with diesel or electrics. And the only "lpg" I want is a 2 or 3 burner cooker with these small cartridges.
Great video and hugely useful. I'm very grateful to you for it. Are barbed air fittings and circlips still acceptable? I note that they are currently in use by the majority of domestic legacy LPG applications. 750mm as max length for flexible hose is just not long enough and I'm sure there must be some sort of get around for this. I used a Joolca gas heater for shower and hot water in my VW camper. The Joolca is supplied with a 1m hose and the manufacturers work to the UK regs. To use it I lift it out of the rear cupboard onto the ground behind the camper and this requires a hose of 2m (otherwise the gas heater is too near the van and shower curtain for safety). If I can't use a barbed air fitting and can't buy a hose over 750mm I'm a bit fooked.
Actually Greg, the purpose of the PTFE tape on pipe threads @15:30 is to offer LUBRICATION. It is not a sealant. It’s job is to prevent heat buildup and galling which would prevent adequate thread insertion, and ultimately, a proper seal. The tape will allow further wraps on the joint, offering the best seal.
Hi Greg, that was excellent, very methodical and simple explanation that should be able to be understood by all. The cost of the standards document via download is absolutely atrocious. Whatever happened to freedom of information?
Yes it's ridiculous when they're not having to produce or ship anything for that it's just an electronic file. You could at least get a hard bound book or something for your cash.
Hi Greg, Thanks for taking the time to post this video. Could I ask your advice on the following? I have a caravelle and modular furniture/appliances. For example (and relevant to this comment) I have a tailgate and have mounted a Smev 9222 into a frame which is secured to the floor rails. When I need the space I simply take it out to make way for the seats. I do the same with the bed, swapping it in/out for seating as required. I now want to move to an underslung gas tank, but keep the flexibility with the hob going in and out depending on what I'm using the vehicle for. I also want the hob to be on a sliding shelf, so it comes out the back a bit (like those slide pods). So in my ideal world what i see is a gas supply port/socket in the floor that I plug into, which only supplies gas when it is in use (i.e. appliance plugged in), and then a flexible hose to the hob (for it to be able to move in and out of the back). Oh and with an isolator somewhere along the way! Am I away with the fairies?! :)
Why don’t you use one of these quick release connections www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BULLFINCH-BLACK-BBQ-POINT-OUTDOOR-LPG-GAS-QUICK-RELEASE-FOR-CARAVAN-MOTORHOME-/144393558595?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m2548.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
Another fantastic video, thanks Greg. Quick question, in later video you mentioned you'd actually put your LPG tank where your freshwater tank is under your van. You only address how to install an LPG tank INSIDE the van here - how would you do this per the regulations? I'd like to do this in my van so this would be very helpful! Happy to discuss on email if easier. Thanks!
Greg you are honestly a life saver! We have a bit of clarifying question around the location of the gas tank/locker relative to the exhaust. I found the diagrams from the regulation a little confusing. Does the locker have to be both 250mm away from the horizontally and vertically. we are currently planning to put our gas locker within 250mm horizontally but well above 250mm vertically (one a very large toe kick with air separating it). Would that be compliant or have we misunderstood?
If you pause the video at 7:37 you will see the diagram and it does need to be 250mm in all directions. It’s to avoid the bottle getting overly warm if that heat was transferred into the van through the floor. 👍🏼
Greg another thorough and succinct video very informative as per usual and to the point keep them up and when ever you do go travelling please keep up the videos and above all enjoy the ride and be safe will continue to follow!!!!
Interesting especially the gas bottle location distances. Wonder how all the VW T5 & T6 conversions are getting certified with the gas bottles above the exhaust in the rear drivers side (seemingly the popular location)...?
God I love you man.........lol It's very clear from all your videos, how passionate you are about things you get into and how lovely you are sharing your vast knowledge and experience with everyone...... Good on you Greg and thank you from me who may convert and those that will, after you showing how it can be done ... Paul
Pretty please Can you post a direct link to the exact manometer that you use as can't seem to find it via the ebay link that you've provided :). Thanks!
Hi Sam, there's a bit of a story behind this, when I did my testing I had a leak but could not trace it, checked all my joints they were sound.
Turned out to be the manometer and pump that was letting by so I had a brainwave, a blood pressure cuff!! It has a mercury gauge and pumps very accurate.
So I brought one off eBay for £11 and cut the tubes used the gauge and the pump and it worked absolutely flawlessly, well happy with it. Here is the link rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-53481-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5575265109&campid=5338027957&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fitm%2FNylon-Cuff-Blood-Pressure-Monitor-Stethoscope-Sphygmomanometer-Manual-BP-KIT%2F223145088865%3FssPageName%3DSTRK%253AMEBIDX%253AIT%26_trksid%3Dp2057872.m2749.l2649
150mbar = 112.5mm Hg (it's what the gauge reads in) I left mine on test all day and it never dropped one bit, well happy.
@@GregVirgoe Excellent, Cheers.
@@GregVirgoe Greg you star, thank you.
Hi Greg, did you do the test with or without the truma connected? Just reading through instruction manual to install mine and on page 26 my understanding is that you’re supposed to disconnect the truma! Seems ridiculous to me as that’s the whole point of testing. Interested on your thoughts!?
Nicholas Croydon-Fowler I tested through everything
I especially like the way Greg, gives his information freely, no trying to screw money out of you and no hidden agenda, there are not many of these people left... sadly.
It's not about the money Ed, for once it's something that gives me a greater satisfaction and fulfilment.
I really want to try and fill a huge void of missing information here and help as many self-builders as possible to get proper information.
Building your own van is something that I think anybody can do with the right help and tools to achieve it.
There's nothing more satisfying than helping someone else and seeing how your efforts have benefitted them and made them happy.
I make a small amount of ad revenue and affiliate links which is great, it's more about the community.
And you do it with such professionalism too Greg. I have been researching my van build for months now, and like you say there is either an abundance of wrong or useless info out there, but not so much of the good stuff.... which is why I subscribed to your channel. Keep it up.
Something I've not seen another Van Conversion DIY do is look up, study and apply the proper codes for Gas. These codes are written of experience/applied science and exist for the greater good. This presentation is professional and concise, what a great teaching tool. Thanks again
Thanks for great feedback cliff
Another bible for camper van converters. Having watched 100s of conversion videos I don’t recall many being compliant. Really useful information Greg, thank you.
Thank you, there's nobody enforcing these standards so you can pretty much get away with what you want at the moment. But if you are building your own van would you not want to make it as safe as possible? I think it makes sense to follow the standards. Hope this video helps many others.
@@GregVirgoe Totally agree Greg, BS/EN/ISOs will be based on best practice, so for the sake of self and public safely why not follow the Standard. Again thanks for sharing your research. Happy to donate £20 towards the cost of you acquiring and sharing the standard, if you have a page?
This is a brilliant video. I’m a gas engineer who hasn’t done much work on vans. I’m impressed.
I’m doing my sprinter this year, I’ve been YouTubing the subject now for two months gaining as much knowledge as possible and Greg makes everyone else here look like amateurs 😂, what a wealth of information, fantastiq
CONGRATULATIONS..,.,.,you explained these regulations like a true pro.,i dont have qualifications for install or testing lpg but am a NG commercial/domestic engineer and i know how hard it is to understand and constantly sit exams to keep my licences updated...i learned so much from your explanation of bsi/en regs..they can be so confusing.......your attention to detail is what made your install SAFE and you had confidence if any thing were to happen such as RTA...where emergency services have to deal with the cylinder etc,,,,,,
Thank you very much for your positive feedback it is really appreciated 👍🏼😃
hi greg i am a lpg gas eng your video was spot on the only thing i would say is to take a look at the alde bubble tester this is fitted in line and all you have to do is press the red button and hold it down if there are bubbles in the see through part you have a leak you can test you gas as often as you like i fit a lot of them on boats. hope this helps
Thank you so much for this very important information! I am designing a van build and I have been quite shocked at how many people let their propane tanks roll around in a drawer in their van’s living space.
It is shocking the potential danger this can cause. If I built another I would put the gas tank underneath.
The most crystal clear and informative explanation EVER ! Not only do I now understand the regulations, but also the reasons why. Thank you Sir !
This is a great video. I've done everything myself with my own initiative, but gas safety is where I draw the line. This has told me everything I need to know. Thank you.
I’m really pleased it has helped you. Thank you for leaving a message 👍🏼😊
I agree with all the comments I like the way you are well-mannered and soft-spoken but also loud enough to hear and very thorough✨👍😃 cheers mate!
That’s very nice of you, many thanks 😊
My father was an engineer and a great handyman, like yourself. He would set his hand to anything and everything, but he wouldn't touch gas. So, there's no way I'd give it a go, despite your excellent explanation once again, Greg.
I'll know what to look for, when I'm checking what the gas fitter is doing, though. ;)
At the end of the day, you have to tackle what jobs you feel comfortable with.
At least you now know if the guy's doing the right job or not :D
As always Greg, your informational videos are brilliant. No nonsense and detailed. As someone else commented, your delivery on how you speak and deliver the information is extremely good. No Muss no fuss. No stupid music, just the facts. Nice one !
waser biker thank you for such great feedback. It makes everything worth while to hear that. Really appreciated 👍🏼😊
Thanks from a curious RV technician in Canada.
By the way, this confirmed the suspicions I had watching some european van conversion videos and thinking that the gas intallations were wrong.
I’m pleased you liked it 👍🏼😃
Brilliant information explained clearly and concisely as always Greg. One caveat to this is that (after extensive conversations with Truma), it is perfectly fine to install a (specifically) Truma flue underneath or within 300mm of an opening window (not door) providing a Truma window switch has been installed. This detects a broken seal when said window is opened at automatically shuts the boiler off to prevent any exhaust gas re-entering the vehicle. There may be an equivalent available for other manufacturers but that's for one's own research!
Absolutely correct. I guess when you have the window open you wouldn’t need the heating on but may want some hot water. Better to be safe than sorry.
Great presentation Greg. Thanks for your efforts. LPG installations can be SO dangerous.
In Australia, we have a requirement that a gas drop vent is required under each gas appliance as well as in the storage box. Also that the main pipe run (rigid) is fitted outside vehicle and then T'd off through the floor at each individual appliance (ie no Ts inside vehicle).
Also, and more importantly, the final requirement for road certification (ie ability to gain insurance cover) of a home-built canpervan is that the gas installation is approved by a qualified gas fitter, who then takes on the legal responsibility if there is an accident involving insurance issues. Same requirement for 240v installation, with a certified electrician. Doing the job is only half the battle, finding the tradesman willing to take the risk and sign off on your work can be difficult.
Once again, Greg's provided *the* definitive content on a DIY conversion topic. In this case, LPG.
Thanks for sharing this fantastic detail on LPG in DIY conversions. The value you provide with your content is second to none. Very thorough. Wonderfully presented.
Always a pleasure to read your comments John. Thank you for such nice feedback. 👍🏼😊
Hi Greg
If you need to use a tool to connect the gas then yes the work has to be done a gas safe engineer ....Not so many of us gas engineers hold the lpg element
Great stuff..
I would always recommend the system be checked and certified by an approved lpg engineer for peace of mind 👍🏼😃
I love your technical videos. You are probably the best van builder on TH-cam for European Citizens.
If you don't make the effort, like Greg, to build it to the standards you obviously have never seen a gas explosion. Google it! A recent incident on the news in Australia showed a truck (Lorry) being used to move house. It went past an intersection camera and moments later debris flew back in the opposite direction. Turns out a leaking barbecue cylinder filled the floor of the cargo section and leaked out to the hot exhaust. The truck was obliterated and the driver killed. Be like Greg. Another great, informative video. Thanks Greg. Funny, in Australia the standard states pipe must non-ferrous, so basically copper but no steel.
Thanks for sharing, I was literally about to install everything wrong until I came across your guidance. Just waiting for right parts to arrive now 👍🏼
Dekka I’m really pleased you found my video there is a lot of miss information out there especially on gas.
Best wishes with your build
@@chatteyj at each location where there is potential for a leak. I have one under my cooker
A bloody marvellous video. I would just like to point out that if you are a university student or alumni then your university likely has access to the British Standards so you'll be able to get hold of them for free rather than paying the extortionate amount that Greg probably had to pay!
Greg, this series has helped me a huge amount.
I ended up with an external tank installed under the tail because of German regs. Must say I struggled to get close to the neatness of your installation. Hat off to you.
If I may, some comments on LPG for Germany based on my experiences. Hope it helps others as yours have.
1 - The system you have with Gaslow us not yet clearly approved, falls into a grey area and is currently being reviewed. Similar systems using Truma dual control are also affected. Issue is that although the controls are approved, tanks are approved, you're not allowed to use flexible pipes to connect fixed gas tanks. Oddly, you can fit dual removable tanks in a gas locker connected with flexible hoses and your Gaslow switch overs.
2 My impression is that steel piping is most often used, not copper. I ended up using steel. It's very hard work to bend. Even with a bender like the one you used. The compression fittings need a lot more tightening than copper and what I thought was tight, certainly a lot tighter than you needed on copper, leaked.
3 It's a requirement to get the system inspected and certified by a qualified body. This is usually a local caravan/camper place. Must be repeated for each Tüv - MOT equivalent. Tanks must be certified every 10 years.
4 There are labelling requirements as well.
5 Doing it yourself is quite straightforward as you've shown, many caravan centres are used to self builds and willing to advise, but not all.
6 Using the combi heater while you're driving is legal and safe, so long as a crash cut off is properly installed. I don't intend to do this, but had one installed for extra safety.
7 You must only run one appliance off a single 8mm pipe. Couldn't make out if this was a legal or practical requirement. 10mm pipe is only allowed up to a manifold. So I have 10mm to the electric shut off like yours, a very short 8mm connection to a manifold, separate feeds without T pieces to each appliance. Manifold has taps to shut off supply to individual appliances.
8 Main German fittings maker seems to be GOK. They have a really useful brochure detailing layouts, the supply components which is really helpful. 'Lösungen für Flüssiggas in Freizeitfahrzeugen'
9 For users of refillable bottles with German threads, adapters are available so they can be refilled in countries which don't use the German fittings.
Please don’t shoot the messenger 😂😂😂 everybody has a comment when most people would have no idea how to do a lot of this. Mechanic here, learnt a lot for when I come to build my own van
Greg you've got my model Bus on your T-Shirt :) Thanks for such a detailed explaination, I'm alway horified when I see people using the gas heater inside their van, especially when they compain about the moisture without giving a second thought to how the Carbon Monoxied that is damaging their brains. I think this video will have a two fold effect, 1, it will make people do it right if they are DIY and 2, it will make people realise how spending the money to get a professional to do it it worth it. It was good to put in the sad story about the boat owner, and it reinforces the need for floor vents to take away any leaking gas. Live the dream and live it long, may your firm pipe work get all the attention it needs!
I think with LPG you need to give it a regular check over as well once it's installed. A moving, flexing and vibrating environment like a van is going to pretty harsh, fittings may become loose, and so on. It's not going to be 100% fit and forget.
Thanks for another great vid!
That is a very valid point you make and than you for sharing that.
I will make sure to add that in the edit of my GAS install video.
Thank you
Fully agree. In Germany there's a compulsory certification by a qualified technician on conversion and every 2 years afterwards. This must be done before the MOT equivalent (Tuev, which is every 2 years).
Greg your an absolute legend! Your info series is excellent and exactly what I need for my upcoming van build, your my go to for van conversion info and I thank you, if I ever meet you I owe you a beer/coffee at least.
Thanks I’ll look forward to it 🍻😃
Another informative, well presented vid Greg, thank you. It's also appreciate with you taking the time to read though EN1949. My thoughts are that with electric it bites and more often than not, you get a second chance, however when you smell gas, it can kill you and others nearby. I've a LPG Tester advising me and you're so on the mark with your comments.
Sunnycampers I really do appreciate your comment.
It’s so important for people doing self builds to make sure their installations are safe. Not only for themselves but also those camped around them. Thank you 😊
very well explained! i just have 2 observations, the difference between butane and propane need discussing and, in my view, the cause of the dreadful boat explosion is normally lack of a 'drain' for the leaking gas.
ie. its is vital any escaping gas, as you say is heaver than air, need to be thought of as water, and will 'pool' if not drained away! typically in a boat you can't fit a vent to allow the gas to escape!
in fact it may look stupid, but you have to bucket the gas out of a boat as you would water.
great videos, keep up the good work
I hadn't had time to research prevention for boats and obviously a "drop out" vent in the boat isn't going to be very practical ;D
I'm guessing detection is the key to alert the occupants on board?
Greg Virgoe hi Greg, first I think your videos are great, this is only my constructive comment, maybe helpful to others, gas on a boat is so dangerous in my view it must be on ‘topside’ and vented, and folks to be aware if they smell gas, it must evacuate below deck, and bucket the gas out, sounds daft, and looks daft, ........
Also in freezing conditions, butane (blue bottles) will not work. And may seem empty, so be carful. A little knowledge is ...... etc....
You can, water will displace any gas, including air. Boat won't float for long, though ;-)
Thanks once again Greg for the great video and taking the time to make all this information clear and accessible to everyone! 👍🏻👍🏻
You’re welcome, thanks for watching
Once again a brilliant video, your 100%, safety is paramount, cheers Greg
Thank you for your support
Greg, LPG is a mix of Butane and Propane. When the average ambient temperature is colder the national blend for LPG will have more Propane - the more expensive gas. In countries that have warmer temps, there is little Propane. The reason for this is to start the gas flowing the liquid in the pressure cylinder needs to vapourise to make gas. If a cylinder contained only Butane it boils at -4°c. If it was say -10° outside the liquid would not produce gas.
That really interesting I didn't know that, thank you for sharing your knowledge.
So does that mean that in different countries in Europe I could be filling up with a different blend?
Can you foresee any problems there when travelling to different climates?
Usually they mix 50/50 in summer and up to 10% butane and 90% propane in winter, as far as i know from driving a lpg-car...
You may notice a difference if you compare times for cooking as the energy properties of Propane and Butane are different. The only difference you might find that gives a problem is if you were to return to UK with a Butane rich blend from "Meditterraniumland" and try to use it in a very cold part of UK. Bring cylinder into a warm place to warm up first - and be quick, once started it should self perpetuate ..... unless very cold. In Turkey we used to deliver roughly 4 parts propane and 1 part butane for them to blend.
Dam it! This Vlog convinced me to keep my log burner. Gas seems so dangerous; the missus had a bottom burb halfway through this, I jumped out of the van into the fresh air.
4:18 when he said "there will be a test..." I thought he was going to continue "...at the end of this lesson so make sure you pay attention". I went white as a sheet, took me back to my schooldays!
This is outstanding work Greg - Thank you . your research and effort is much appreciated
Thanks Greg, I have been watching all you van build videos - all are most excellent! Glad I watch this one!! My kitchen unit for our camper van came NEW with a hob and grill fitted with a gas hose attached. Having read the hob installation instructions for the hob it states do not use rubber hose. I won't name and shame the supplier but I will have a word with them. Best I remove the unit and fit some copper pipe!! Thanks again
Great Information, thank you,I have a guy coming tomorrow to test my work and hopefully get a certificate.
Mike W
Hi Greg!
Another thorough, informative, most-excellent video! I’ve also done lots of research as to the best way to route my gas piping for my van build. Reading the various online forums, everyone seems to have a slightly different approach that they feel is “right”. Here in the US, there is no nationwide governing body that regulates this. Our home building codes, for example, are all at the state, county, and city level (at least to my knowledge). What might be acceptable in one locality might not apply in another town just a few miles away. Of course, the city codes must comply with the county codes and these must in turn comply with the state codes. Obviously this means that hard and fast regulations for RVs that apply across the country are non-existent. Otherwise you might not be able to cross state lines! When doing a van or any sort of conversion such as a skoolie here in the US, it’s pretty much an anything-goes affair (at least from a legal standpoint). There is no governing body that inspects your work, as is the case in more “civilized” places like New Zealand, for example.There are some industry “standards”, but these are little more than suggestions. Again, this is based on my research and I could be incorrect. (I’m quite sure your viewers will make me aware of any inaccuracies.)
Therefore, I decided to take the tack of more closely following the ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) standards (pun intended). I figure if it’s good enough for the confined spaces found in a boat that’s subject to all the stress of the open ocean, it’s probably sufficient for a van. I’m installing a horizontal LPG tank beneath my van. The regulator will be attached directly to the tank with threaded copper fittings, and from there I will use black iron pipe to a manifold with a shut-off valve for each appliance. From each valve, more black iron pipe will be run along the bottom of the van and then up through a sealed grommet, penetrating the van floor immediately below the location of each appliance. Effectively a star network topology, in geek-speak. :-) From there I will run rubber gas hose (which is approved by the ABYC and UL) directly to the appliance.
While copper piping is also approved by the ABYC, I prefer to use rubber because I am concerned about the hardening (and possible fracture) that copper tubing is subject to under vibration, which is common in a van, especially when driving down washboard dirt roads. As I am sure you are aware, this is the same reason one uses stranded rather than solid copper for all wiring.
I’m curious what you and your readers (in particular those here in the states), think about my approach. Note that many RV manufactures such as Winnebago use black iron pipe for the gas lines beneath the RV, so I didn’t come up with this method on my own. Given the huge liability that manufacturers such as Winnebago are subject to, I’m guessing (hoping?) they’ve researched this extensively.
Cheers!
Pete
Hello Pete, you have done your homework and a great comment thank you.
Your infrastructure under the van sounds really excellent and robust. With the black iron pipe, I'm assuming you are threading the pipe and using threaded fittings with gas safe PTFE? So there is some potential for leaks there, but they are all outside the van so no harm just possible loss of gas.
A plastic coated copper coil would still give protection and eliminate the joints.
Obviously, the rubber hose inside does not conform to the European Standard for fixed appliances.
I totally understand what you are saying because I too would expect the final connection at least to be flexible in a moving vehicle, but no.
It makes sense to me to run a continuous coil unit the last 300mm or so from a local isolating valve to the appliance.
If you place "drop-out" vents under each appliance and some means of gas detection in your van you will have a very safe system.
Great work Pete and thanks for the excellent feedback.
Thanks for detailed, response, Greg. Much appreciated given how popular your channel has become (and deservedly so). I completely agree with everything you've said in your reply and most definitely plan on using propane-approved pipe dope on the black pipe fittings. I still might opt for copper piping inside the van. I've gone back and forth a half dozen times (at least!). As long as one supports copper tubing at closely spaced intervals and at each bend, this should help prevent unrestrained flexing which can work harden the copper, possibly causing it to split. Rubber hose does not have that problem, although it too must be well supported. It's difficult to say how common work-hardening actually is. Could be more of a theoretical problem. But boy, I hate to be a guinea pig and find out the hard way! I'm a member of several RV and marine/sailing forums and everyone seems to have a different approach and of course thinks theirs is the "right way". You'd think with all the RVs out there that by now there would be a standard method, but sadly, there is not. I'm certain your installation is top notch and will provide you with many years of safe, reliable service. Looking forward to your next video!
Hello Pete, I wouldn't advise to use rubber hoses inside your camper. They are ageing, therefore they are not as safe as a rigid piping. What Greg didn't mention in his video, the rubber hose which connects the cylinder to the rigid piping, must be changed after ten years, at least in Germany.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I understand that the hose must be replaced, but ten years is a long time and the runs from below the van to each appliance will be quite short (about a meter, give or take) and are easily replaced. I'll have three: one to my range/oven, one to my Truma Aquago water heater (great German engineering on that device!), and one to my Dickinson Marine fireplace/heater. As I said, I might still decide to use copper tubing, but since rubber hose seems to be the preferred choice in a marine environment, one would think it would also work well in an RV or van. I don't believe there is a definitive answer as to which is better, as long as both are properly installed. Again, I appreciate your advice and will take it into consideration when I reach that point in my build! :-)
Great communication skills. Beautiful.
Thank you 🙏🏼
Think of this Greg. Your great video and explanation may one day save someone from serious harm or worse. You are a top guy.
I really do hope it helps a lot of self-builders be more aware and much safer in their own mobile homes :D
Thank you Derek , very much appreciated.
Thank you for the time you took to explain all of this very important safety information. You made a topic that could easily have been boring into a very educational and engaging video. You explained the physics behind the reasons why the rules are the way they are. Thank you!
NotSunkYet I really wanted to get this one out there because I see so many installation that are just ticking time bombs.
If it saves a few people it would be so worth the effort and cost. 👍🏼😊
Brilliant in-depth video Greg, well done my friend....you can’t cut corners when gas is around...
My thoughts entirely Marc and why this video is essential I think.
Greg Virgoe I cant agree more mate.....I’ve seen boats blow up because of unqualified installation....not nice seeing the results floating in the water 😔
This was one I've been waiting for. Far too many bodge installs on TH-cam.
Excellent as always Greg. Thank you.
Thank you very much for the support and I hope that has given you lots of useful information.
Out of interest when I converted my van I discovered that the European Standards issued by the UK were originally British standards just rebadged. So don’t blame the Europeans. But I used Greg’s advice to make a super van.
Brilliant advice as always Greg, shamefully I have previously used PTFE tape on compression joints (water only), so thanks for the correction!
Haha, certainly no offence taken, and to be honest I think it's probably perfectly accurate, given that I'm sure I saw a plumber do it somewhere, and simply copied as you said. Though I'm not actually building a van conversion presently (maybe one day!), I still think your videos are invaluable. Your diligence and professionalism is clearly evident. I hope that you feel sufficiently rewarded for your efforts, either in terms of simple gratitude, but hopefully a bit of cash from TH-cam also. If you continue to present videos in the manner that you have so far, I have no doubt that your following will grow exponentially. Good luck Greg, and many thanks for your work and your comment. Take care.
Excellent. Considering I didn't have access to the standard, I'm pleased to say mine is pretty much compliant. Wish you'd done this video a year ago mind you ;-)
Yes, David, you did a very good job with your recent van conversion. Sorry, I'm a bit late for you ;D
Anyone reading these comments please go and check out David's channel and his van build series.
I highly recommend it.
David, a question for you inspired by Peter Connolly comment.
How did you deal with the potential for LPG leaks on your narrowboat as you can't go drilling big holes in the floor?
Greg thanks for this video😱
Greg Virgoe The gas locker where the bottles are stored has two side vents at floor level, a few inches above the waterline. Inside the boat there is no drop venting (for obvious reasons, namely sinking!) which is why some boats (although surprisingly few, I'll wager) have LPG alarms in the cabin bilge, typically at the back (lowest point). When you're back from your travels, do pop up and have a day on the boat!
Hi there Greg ! chose to go electric + diesel heating so I can skip Gas altogether... plus I can put it under the van... winning some room... and weight ( I hope ) ! as usual : all respect for your thoroughness! top job!
Here is some information specific to the USA. The laws for passenger vehicles/van conversions in the US set by the DOT defer to the NFPA, National Fire Protection Association. The sections of NFPA 58 that pertain to us are 6.26 and 11.9. There is room for debate here as to whether 6.26 or 11.9 is more accurately applied. This is because 6.26 excludes RV's with installed systems. 6.26 is for disposables and refillables. 11 in general is discussing propane engines but 6.26 does a redirect to 11.9, very confusing.
Per 6.26 we need a vapor tight enclosure that has two vents to the outside top and bottom, an outside hatch for emergency personnel to remove the propane container(s), the venting must be 3 feet away from any other holes in the side of the van that lead to the passenger compartment, it must be sturdy enough to withstand 4x the weight of the propane container(s) in ANY direction. The container(s) must be securely fastened to the interior of the compartment (think about how fire extinguishers mount).
Per 11.9 we only need a vapor tight enclosure that vents to the outside.
I think the vent hole diameter was 1" but not certain.
Thank you for being so thorough with your description of the European standards, I think this was the best discussion of propane I have seen and I did a ton of propane research! Publication 58 was a very lengthy document but was too confusing. Could you follow up this video to show us more of exactly how you made your enclosure and attached your fittings? Or is that already in your cabinetry video?
I haven't decided whether I want the risk or hassle of propane. I may just expand my solar capacity and reduce my expectations, like cook outside, wear wool etc. If I do propane then I am going to do it right and meet both US and European standards.
Susan Nichols -- By my knowing European safety standards are higher, so doing a mix of your regulations more towards European standards are safer. Per example: the 1" outlet in the cabinet seems to me rather small, if a leakage would happen I would like to see the gas leaving this compartment a lot faster from a bigger vent in the bottom...
There is never any risk or downside in doing things better and more secure compared to those minimal standard rules from an authority as NFPA , and it give me a better feeling in over securing that gas storage in the van. You only could get thumbs up!
Well it seems me being a retired senior process/quality engineer in the automotive & construction industry has it's benefits after all 😉 Thanks once again Greg for the superb information👍
Is there a nicer guy on the whole of YT?? Love your stuff Greg. 😉👍👌
Really appreciate that 👍🏼😃🙏🏼
Have just bought a Gas it refillable LPG system and this video has helped alot, thanks
Always a reliable source of information to come back to when needed. Many thanks Greg.
Hi Greg, I do think with your skills and knowledge you could easily make a business for yourself in van fitouts, however they are a labour of love ! Very useful information indeed, I was going to fit a cooker inside a studio and the bottled gas inside. Me thinks that will definitely go outside and have a run of copper to the inside to the cooker.
That sounds like a very wise move, make sure you have the bottles in a locked cage or small locked shed with vents at high and low level, means of local isolation and the appropriate warning signs fitted. Thanks for watching
Your timing is impeccable. I'm not far from starting my propane build. Thanks for this vid. Great detail as always.
Hope it will help you make a safe system for your van :D
Well amongst the best on line , very informative 🙏
I really do appreciate your feedback thank you 😊👍🏼
You can get a gas sniffer , you just turn it on and follow all the pipe work and if there is any leaks it will buzz, no buzzing and you have no leaks you can get a cheap one on EBay for around £30 one of my sons use one all the time in his job as a gas engineer mostly fixing gas leaks , he says it’s the easiest way to find any leaks .
By far the most informative, inspirational van build series, I´m so thankfull for your hard work putting these together Greg :) Huge respect from Sweden, stay safe
Joakim Persson that is hugely appreciated. Makes all the hard work so worth while. Best wishes Greg
Sad... I clicked like before I even watched it.. but I knew it would be another good one from Greg.
Thank you Edwin, really great to have your regular support
Me too, Edwin!
I always do this with Greg’s videos
Yup, I do the same!...and I thought it was just me, lol
Greg, long time watcher, first time commenter and mate this video has been absolutely fantastic to watch, the way you articulated the regulations was easy and simple to understand, thank you so much for your time and dedication put towards these videos.
Excellent video and information Greg. Like you I have found it difficult to obtain all the relevent info for installing LPG in a van. The info you provide is priceless. Thanks :)
This is great Greg! I think I'll stick with electric cooktop for inside the van and use a camp stove on a picnic table when appropriate.
Another excellent video Greg! Stay safe! Thanks!
You too Don, Many thanks
Hi Greg.
I’ve to tell you... I really like your videos. You make a great job full with information.
Thank you.
David Oliveira thank you for a great comment. Cheers
Hi Greg, it is me again...
concerning the straps for the gas bottles (LPG), in Germany, you have to fix them with a secured band which can only be detached with tools.
Exactly the other way around :-)
The reason is, while filling the bottle, you could tilt it, and then the 80% filling control is not working, and the bottle could be over filled.
That is, why the bottles have to installed fixed, and cannot be removed without any tool.
If you fill from a connection on the side of the van the bottle doesn’t get touched at all. The reason the straps are done simply by hand is so they can be removed easily if needed.
@@GregVirgoe And this is, what is not allowed in Germany. LPG bottles are not supposed to be removed easily... they have to be fixed insite the compartment.
You cannot use the „normal“ fixing, unfortunately.
Thanks Greg for yet another fact filled video. My van build will benefit from this.
I'm really pleased it has some useful stuff in there for you.
Great info Greg, thanks, though I will also be adding a carbon monoxide detector inside!
thanks for all the advice, makes a the dream a possibility
Really appreciate all the effort and explanation here. I'm sure you've saved a few lives because of the video.Thank you!
Exceptional information. Clear and concise
Greg, Big thank you for the time it's taken researching all the correct specifications, sharing with others in your usual precise way "This video will save lives" 👍 🚐
Thx for these informations, I saw some really unsafe installations some days ago...recommended your vid to them, hope that they will watch this here and didn`t blow their vans up...
:-)
Have fun!
Thank you for sharing this information and hopefully, that will help those guys make their vans more safe
This is so so good Greg, so informative and presented in a relaxed manner. Love.it!
Knowledge + skills = Greg.
Thanks for your videos.
Thank you for the compliment.
Glad you like them
Thank you Greg! So concise and clear!
Thank you very much
Brilliant! I'd like to see you doing the joints, install etc. Thanks.
Please watch my previous Truma heater installation video, I'm installing the gas pipe to the boiler.
th-cam.com/video/zCjygu0ygKE/w-d-xo.html
I also will have a further video coming out on the gas cylinder due for release very soon.
I plan on fitting a Diesel heater in my van. I would assume the Flue regulations are the same. Great video. So much research goes into your content I am surprised you have time to build the van.
I cannot say for definite, but I would guess the termination of flue near windows and doors etc will also apply to diesel.
It's been a labour of love Chris, The van would have been finished in a third of the time if I was not filming and editing.
But I'm also enjoying the whole TH-cam part of the build and being able to help others is so very rewarding.
Your generosity and that of others is greatly appreciated, Greg, thank you!
Funny how most autogas/underslung fill points are in the driver’s side B pillar - LPG engineers pass these as gas safe regularly despite proximity to an opening door. GAS IT recommend for underslung systems where the fill point is in the habitational area, that a rubber boot and moplin tube be used to room seal the fill point so any leaked gases can vent safely through the floor.
£198 for a pdf, WTF! What is the point of a standard if it is tucked up behind a pay wall? seems a bit silly to me.
Hi James, you can get it for half price as a member, however, membership starts at £200! 😂
It does seems a little silly, but unfortunately it's how these things work. The people who write the standards want to get paid for writing them, as do the proofreaders & lawyers who clear them for publication. The costs have to be spread over the number of copies they expect to sell; it's not the latest Harry Potter so the chances of selling millions of copies are zero. I imagine the sales of some technical publications would barely get into 3 figures, so they're more expensive, whereas more common ones sell for less - for example the 18th edition electrical regs are around £30, because every qualified electrician and electrical student needs to own a copy therefore they sell in the (possibly tens of) thousands.
It is actually cheap compared to many ISO standards... but usually you can get them cheaper at educational facilities as part of a compendium.
The reason it seems a little silly to me is because someone could potentially injure them self but trying to save a few quid. Form a H&S point of view there should be central funding for projects like this to offset some of the cost, to make the whole thing a bit more accessible and we would have safer conversions as a result of this. knowledge is power and with how strict other regulations are surrounding vehicles in regard to safety, it would be in the best interest for the public to have this information.
If each person who already viewed this vid contributed $0.05usd to a pool, there would be enough to cover the purchase of the PDF...and then post it on a torrent site...because essentially they're saying that people who cannot afford it cannot have the knowledge for personal safety and the safety of others
Love your videos. Watched it, although I'm planning my van only on diesel and electrics. I don't want to have any lpg in my van.
Shower water will be heated through the cars cooling system. Heating with diesel. Fridge with diesel or electrics. And the only "lpg" I want is a 2 or 3 burner cooker with these small cartridges.
Thanks for your videos Greg! By far the best van build info on TH-cam.
Fantastic video on LPG. Hope you will be uploading more.
Great video and hugely useful. I'm very grateful to you for it.
Are barbed air fittings and circlips still acceptable? I note that they are currently in use by the majority of domestic legacy LPG applications.
750mm as max length for flexible hose is just not long enough and I'm sure there must be some sort of get around for this. I used a Joolca gas heater for shower and hot water in my VW camper. The Joolca is supplied with a 1m hose and the manufacturers work to the UK regs.
To use it I lift it out of the rear cupboard onto the ground behind the camper and this requires a hose of 2m (otherwise the gas heater is too near the van and shower curtain for safety). If I can't use a barbed air fitting and can't buy a hose over 750mm I'm a bit fooked.
Actually Greg, the purpose of the PTFE tape on pipe threads @15:30 is to offer LUBRICATION. It is not a sealant. It’s job is to prevent heat buildup and galling which would prevent adequate thread insertion, and ultimately, a proper seal. The tape will allow further wraps on the joint, offering the best seal.
Hi Greg, that was excellent, very methodical and simple explanation that should be able to be understood by all. The cost of the standards document via download is absolutely atrocious. Whatever happened to freedom of information?
Yes it's ridiculous when they're not having to produce or ship anything for that it's just an electronic file. You could at least get a hard bound book or something for your cash.
Hi Greg, Thanks for taking the time to post this video. Could I ask your advice on the following? I have a caravelle and modular furniture/appliances. For example (and relevant to this comment) I have a tailgate and have mounted a Smev 9222 into a frame which is secured to the floor rails. When I need the space I simply take it out to make way for the seats. I do the same with the bed, swapping it in/out for seating as required. I now want to move to an underslung gas tank, but keep the flexibility with the hob going in and out depending on what I'm using the vehicle for. I also want the hob to be on a sliding shelf, so it comes out the back a bit (like those slide pods). So in my ideal world what i see is a gas supply port/socket in the floor that I plug into, which only supplies gas when it is in use (i.e. appliance plugged in), and then a flexible hose to the hob (for it to be able to move in and out of the back). Oh and with an isolator somewhere along the way! Am I away with the fairies?! :)
Why don’t you use one of these quick release connections www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BULLFINCH-BLACK-BBQ-POINT-OUTDOOR-LPG-GAS-QUICK-RELEASE-FOR-CARAVAN-MOTORHOME-/144393558595?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m2548.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
Very detailed and extremely useful. Thank you Greg!
Seb Arcus you are welcome. Thanks for watching 😃
Very good and important information. Thank you Greg.
You are welcome Ian
Another fantastic video, thanks Greg. Quick question, in later video you mentioned you'd actually put your LPG tank where your freshwater tank is under your van. You only address how to install an LPG tank INSIDE the van here - how would you do this per the regulations? I'd like to do this in my van so this would be very helpful! Happy to discuss on email if easier. Thanks!
Once again great information gregg ... thank you
You are most welcome 🙏🏼
Excellent distillation of a complex system. Good work. Thanks.
You are most welcome, thanks
Well done Greg. Crystal clear👍
Greg you are honestly a life saver! We have a bit of clarifying question around the location of the gas tank/locker relative to the exhaust. I found the diagrams from the regulation a little confusing. Does the locker have to be both 250mm away from the horizontally and vertically. we are currently planning to put our gas locker within 250mm horizontally but well above 250mm vertically (one a very large toe kick with air separating it). Would that be compliant or have we misunderstood?
If you pause the video at 7:37 you will see the diagram and it does need to be 250mm in all directions. It’s to avoid the bottle getting overly warm if that heat was transferred into the van through the floor. 👍🏼
Thanks for all the work and the expenses you saved us Greg! Excellent informative video as always. ATB - Marc- Belgium
Greg another thorough and succinct video very informative as per usual and to the point keep them up and when ever you do go travelling please keep up the videos and above all enjoy the ride and be safe will continue to follow!!!!
LPG💨
Smashed it again Greg 👍🏼
Cheers Ian
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. This is much appreciate! :)
You are most welcome 🙏🏼
ive learnt a lot from this video ..thanks Greg
Interesting especially the gas bottle location distances. Wonder how all the VW T5 & T6 conversions are getting certified with the gas bottles above the exhaust in the rear drivers side (seemingly the popular location)...?
God I love you man.........lol
It's very clear from all your videos, how passionate you are about things you get into and how lovely you are sharing your vast knowledge and experience with everyone......
Good on you Greg and thank you from me who may convert and those that will, after you showing how it can be done ...
Paul
It's comments like this that make all the hours of research filming and late night editing worthwhile.
Really appreciated Paul, thank you.