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@cnreason I'd be happy to. For starters, Isaiah 44:6 is cross referenced to Revelation 22:13; Isaiah 9:6 to Luke 2:11; Ezekiel 34:11-17 is cross referenced to John 21:15, which is then referenced to John 10 verses. That's just a small handful.
@cnreason insults do not bolster your argument. The verses I gave you refer to Jehovah in the OT, and then are cross referenced to Jesus, which is accurate! Jehovah is the first and the last...Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and last. Jehovah is my Shepherd, as is Jesus, the Good Shepherd.... And on and on.
@@Sundayschoolnetwork yep.. Answers in turn like another false religion..(islamic) when u provides evidence and proof that shows their wrong.. Now the hate and belittling to win a debate.. This is not a debate, this is our eternal souls destination.. Come to the truth people.. Jesus- The Truth, Way, and the Life.. Without u can not have the father.. A.k.a Jehovah God
I watched this video a few months ago. God put it back in my feed just in time. I received a handwritten letter in my mailbox from a lady JW a few days ago. I’m going to respond and this video will be very helpful. Thank you, and God bless.
2:45 It is recommended to go in twos, as that is what Jesus did with the 70. It has absolutely nothing to do with "organizational control". I find it fascinating this man made that supposition. I would often work by myself if there was an odd number.
Psalm 102:25-27 ESV Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. [26] They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away, [27] but you are the same, and your years have no end. -->only Jehovah doesn't change --> Heb 1:10-12 Exact same words being said about Jesus Can I show you another? Jn12:41 --> Isa 6:1 Isa saw Jehovah...
5:30 About Ps 102: 25-27, that is in comparison to physical creation. The angels do not grow old or wear out. Physical creation may, but not spiritual creatures. The difference is God had no beginning. If Heb 1:10-11 applies to Jesus, that is not an issue, as Jesus was God master worker (Prov 8:22). The one God created "through". (John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. Notice the word "through". Do you remember how God delivered the Israelites through Moses?
Psalms 45:7 (NIV) 7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, YOUR GOD, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy. Verse 7 uses the expression “God, your God,” showing that the one addressed is not the Most High God but is a worshiper of that God. Hebrews 1:8 quotes from Psalm 45:6, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Obviously, the Bible writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was the Almighty God. Solomon, who was possibly the king originally addressed in Psalm 45, was said to sit “upon Jehovah’s throne.” 1 Chronicles 29:23 (NIV) So Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king in place of his father David. He prospered and all Israel obeyed him. In harmony with the fact that God is the “throne,” or Source and Upholder of Christ’s kingship,God confers such authority on Jesus. Luke 1:32 (NIV) He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David
Jesus can't be Jehovah. According to Isaiah 44:7 only Jehovah knows the future. Jesus and the holy spirit does not know the day and hour when asked. “Matthew 24:36 (NIV)But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,but only the Father. (The holy spirit did not know, only the Father) At Revelation 1:1 Jesus is given a revelation from God. If Jesus himself were part of a Godhead, would he have to be given a revelation by another part of the Godhead while in heaven? Wouldn't he already know if he were the true God and was equal to God? Following Jesus resurrection, Jesus informed his disciples, “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth,” (Mt 28:18) If Jesus was God Almighty and equal to God, wouldn't he already have all authority? But Jesus says all authority was GIVEN him. 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name (Philippians 2:9) If Jesus was God, wouldn't he already have a name above every other name? Why would he need to be exalted by the other third of the godhead? How could he be exalted further than the Almighty if he was the almighty and equal to God? And those that are to rule as kings and priests with Christ in heaven for a thousand years are called his brothers, but to God they are called sons. See: Heb 2:10-12 The Almighty God does not have brothers in heaven. There is a chart on the trinity that shows the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the holy spirit. So how can Jesus be Jehovah? And is the holy spirit also Jehovah? If Jesus is Jehovah then Jesus prayed to himself. The bible records no controversy about who God was in the 1st century. To the Jews and first century Christians the Father was God. The trinity developed over centuries and came to what it is today at the Council of Constantinople in 381 A.D. when the holy spirit was added to the godhead. At the earlier Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. it was decided the father and son was of the same substance but it took another 56 years to add the holy spirit. Jesus and his apostles did warn about an apostasy that would occur in later times. Matthew 11:27 27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son except the Father; neither does anyone fully know the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him. But if the holy spirit were a person, the 3rd person of the godhead, wouldn't he also fully know the Father and Son? But it says: "No one fully knows the Son except the Father." According to trinity dogma the Father is not the holy spirit.
At Hebrews 1:10, 11 the words of Psalm 102:25, 26 are applied to Jesus Christ. He, too, could be said to have ‘laid the foundations of the earth’ and produced the heavens as ‘the work of his hands’ because God’s only-begotten Son was God’s personal Agent employed in creating the physical universe. (John 1:1, 2; Col. 1:15, 16) Proverbs 8:22 (New Living Translation): 22 “The LORD FORMED ME from the beginning, before he created anything else. 23 I was appointed in ages past, at the very first, before the earth began. 24 I WAS BORN before the oceans were created, before the springs bubbled forth their waters. 25 Before the mountains were formed, before the hills, I WAS BORN- 26 before he had made the earth and fields and the first handfuls of soil. 27 I was there when he established the heavens, when he drew the horizon on the oceans. 28 I was there when he set the clouds above, when he established springs deep in the earth. 29 I was there when he set the limits of the seas, so they would not spread beyond their boundaries. And when he marked off the earth’s foundations, 30 I was the architect at his side. I was his constant delight, rejoicing always in his presence. 31 And how happy I was with the world he created; how I rejoiced with the human family! Proverbs 8:22 (NIV): 22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,before his deeds of old; 23 I WAS FORMED long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be. 24 When there were no watery depths, I WAS GIVEN BIRTH, when there were no springs overflowing with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I WAS GIVEN BIRTH, 26 before he made the world or its fields or any of the dust of the earth. 27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, 28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, 29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. 30 Then I was constantly at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, 31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind. According to scripture Jehovah created Jesus and Jesus was by his side working when the world was created. This is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. Notice only 2 persons was present during the worlds creation. God's power (holy spirit) was used, but it is not a person. It is personified in the bible like wisdom, water, blood and sin is personified. This explains why the holy spirit is not even mentioned as knowing the day and hour and why the holy spirit does not fully know the Father and Son. Hebrews 1 does not prove a trinity at all. The trinity is supposed to be 3 persons in 1 God but you can't even prove 2 persons in 1 God.
“In the year that King Uzziah died I, however, got to see Jehovah, sitting on a throne lofty and lifted up, and his skirts were filling the TEMPLE. Isaiah 6:8 says: Then I heard the voice of Jehovah saying: “Whom shall I send, and who will go for US?” And I said: “Here I am! Send me! By using the plural pronoun “us”, Jehovah was including someone with himself, at least one other person. That other person was his only-begotten Son. That he is the one associated with Jehovah at the temple and included in the pronoun “us” is made certain for us in John 12:36-41, which has reference to Jesus Christ. Thus Jehovah and his only-begotten Son are two distinct individuals, not a trinity! How can anyone come to the conclusion that Jehovah is the same person as Jesus? And how do 2 persons make a trinity? How does this prove God is 3 persons in one God equal in eternity, power, position, and wisdom?
Does this account sounds familiar? Let me see! Luke 10:25-26 Now look! a man versed in the Law stood up to test him and said: “Teacher, what do I need to do to inherit everlasting life?” 26 He said to him: “What is written in the Law? How do you read?” How do you read? Hebrews 1:10-12 10 And: “At the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you will remain; and just like a garment, they will all wear out, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end.” Here Paul by divine inspiration quoted from the scriptures just like Jesus did in numerous occasions In this case psalm 102: 24-27. By quoting psalms Paul gave the proper praise to the only one deserving such praise Jehovah God, How do you explain verses 7-9. Hebrews 1:7 Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.” Who is the one making his angels spirits ? Who makes the ministers a flame of fire? Please explain this “ That is why God, your God , anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions. Who anointed Jesus with the oil of exultation? According to you almighty God is Jesus , so you believe that in this case Jesus anointed himself the oil of exultation, more than his companions Who are the companions? Are they human? Or are they Angelic beings ? How many are there ? So back to the question who Anointed Jesus ? Jesus gave the answer at Luke 10: 18 Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free, How do you read? Remember that Paul before his conversion from Judaism to Christianity, he was well versed in the Hebrew Scriptures yet he recognized that all that schooling wherever he accomplished before becoming a Faithful follower of Jesus, he considered all as a lot of refuse! Who were the superfine apostles? Mention at 2 Corinthians Who are the superfine apostles in our day? What’s their objective? How is the god of this system of things blinding the eyes of the unbelievers? Who is Babylon the great? The scribe gave the right answer to Jesus , In answer he said: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” 28 He said to him: “You answered correctly; keep doing this and you will get life.” Just like the scribe, I don’t doubt that you are well versed on the scriptures, and that you have a vast knowledge specially in theology, But do you sincerely follow Jesus steps closely? Do you love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” Do you pay Caesar things to Caesar and things to God to God .? Do you usually participate on man made holidays, of worldly origins rather than biblical origin? Based on your comments you boast that you have the actual biblical truth and based on your knowledge and wisdom you can refute and disapprove Jehovah’s Witness believes. To me that is a presumptuous position, doesn’t the word of God warns against such behavior, Again sounds familiar, did or did it not the prideful religious leaders versed in the law tried to discredit the humble followers of Christ. 1 Corinthians 4:6 Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A·polʹlos for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other. 7 For who makes you different from another? Indeed, what do you have that you did not receive? If, in fact, you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?
Heb.8 reads like this in any other Bible. But about the Son he says, your throne o God is forever and ever . Jw translators mis translated that verse . Do you know the names of whom translated. The nwt Or are you to ashamed of the fact they were not Bible scrollers . I have the names if you want to know ? Erik Tonnisen
If Jesus believed he was God, why didn't he says that in prayer to his Father? (John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. If the apostles, who learned directly from Jesus thought Jesus was God, why didn't they say that in describing who God is? (1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. Wouldn't that have been the perfect opportunity to reveal their trinity, if it were true?
I'm not a scholar yet, but I will attempt to answer your question since no one else has. It seems to me that the deity of Christ and His lordship is vital to the apostles as they were demonstrating the nature of the Father and Son. Why did He not mention their union in verse 3, well He eventually did just 2 verses later. They crucified Christ mostly because they charged Him guilty of blasphemy because He so often claimed unity and equality with the sovereign God of the universe. When Christ called the Father "Father," He is literally referring to His equality with Him because not a single person ever ventured to go that far. They really wouldn't even speak the name of the Father, yet Christ comes along and calls Him "Father" and all these other verses I could provide for you if you would like. Sometimes you have to go to the Greek to see it, but even if you couldn't, there are many direct references to His (Christ's) deity. The apostles also referred to the deity of Christ a lot, and that 1Cor. verse you quoted didn't directly refer to it, it seems to me on the surface. But there are many other places Shalom!
@@scottgrey2877 You just refuted yourself... You can only begot or beget something of your nature. If God begot Jesus then Jesus is of the same essence of God. This proves Jesus is God for if God is eternal and begot Jesus then Jesus is eternal.
Actually many Bibles say something like (1 John 5:7) For there are three witness bearers: 8 the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. So the question is why is that verse different then yours? If you looked it up you would see your version is generally, and pretty much unanimously considered a spurious addition, that started out as a note in the margins, and later added to the text.
So what you're saying is based off of 3 scriptures you believe that Jesus is Jehovah? I wouldn't base my beliefs that Jesus is jehovah off of 3 scriptures. What about the rest of the Bible?
@@fredrolinners8903 the reason I say that I myself; would not base my beliefs off of 3 scriptures is because there are more than 33,000 scriptures in the entire bible. Using 3 scriptures to say that Jesus is Jehovah doesn't make sense to me.
@@black_5691 It doesn't make sense to you because you won't accept what these 3 Scriptures teach. How many would be enough? 5? 10? 50? How many times does God have to teach something that is true in order for it to be true? Once is good enough for me.
When talking to a trinity believer ask them to explain it. Most of the time it going to be explain different. Some say Jesus ain’t God. Then the say Jesus is God. It confusing. Just keep it simple. The man point do the person who believe in the trinity is looking for the only true God Jehovah. Jesus own words. John 17:3 Jesus even told Peter that God reveal to you I’m the Christ, the Son of God. God never reveal a trinity doctrine.
Except John’s gospel is filled with Christ’s deity and Trinitarian scripture. John 12:41 lines up perfectly with the Septuagint’s translation of Isaiah 6. Lest we forget John 8:24, 58, where Jesus explicitly claims He is the I Am. John 14:16-17 is about as explicit as the Trinity gets in that Gospel. Now, you can try to use John 17, John 14:28, or John 10:30 to refute Trinitarianism but, in context, those verses are actually even more evidence to the Trinity being a biblical doctrine. Which is what the Gospel of John is about.
Every Gospel portrays Jesus as Yahweh in the flesh even Orthodox Jews/rabies also secular scholars acknowledge that the Gospels and the earliest Christians believed Jesus to be God.
Jesus is not the Creator. . Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Matt 16:16,17. Jesus came in the flesh not God. 1 John 4:2,3 the trinity origin is Babylon. The Babylonian trinity is Semiramis and Tammuz and Nimrod. The catholic trinity is father, Son and Holy Spirit. Not a biblical teaching. Jesus never taught a trinity. 1 Tim 6:3,4 Those who teach the trinity misinterpret the bible to support a false catholic trinity doctrine. God was never human. God is a spirit. John 4:24 Jehovah alone is the Most High. Ps 83:18 Jesus said his father is the only true God. John 17:1-3 Again the trinity is no part of the scriptures.
(Zechariah 2:8) For this is what Jehovah of armies says, who after being glorified has sent me to the nations that were plundering you: ‘Whoever touches you touches the pupil of my eye. Zech 12:10 “I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of favor and supplication, and they will look to the one whom they pierced, and they will wail over him as they would wail over an only son; and they will grieve bitterly over him as they would grieve over a firstborn son. Please explain.
2:45 It is recommended to go in twos, as that is what Jesus did with the 70. It has absolutely nothing to do with "organizational control". I find it fascinating this man made that supposition. I would often work by myself if there was an odd number.
@@Nick-wn1xw They were to find "those who were deserving". How do you suppose they did that? Acts 5:42 And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.
5:30 About Ps 102: 25-27, that is in comparison to physical creation. The angels do not grow old or wear out. Physical creation may, but not spiritual creatures. The difference is God had no beginning. If Heb 1:10-11 applies to Jesus, that is not an issue, as Jesus was God master worker (Prov 8:22). The one God created "through". (John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. Notice the word "through". Do you remember how God delivered the Israelites through Moses?
@@fredrolinners8903 Just like God delivered Israel through Moses, God created through Jesus. Notice the word "through". John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him, but the world did not know him.
@@777Tralfaz777 That's why the Bible doesn't say God did it all alone apart from Moses. But the Bible does say God created the heavens alone (Job 9:8). Big difference.
@@fredrolinners8903 I believe you are wrong. God alone delivered Israel. He did it through Moses. Without God, Moses could do nothing. 1 Sam 10:18 and said to the Israelites: “This is what Jehovah the God of Israel says: ‘It was I who brought Israel up out of Egypt and who rescued you from the hand of Egypt and from the hand of all the kingdoms that were oppressing you. 19 But today you have rejected your God who was your Savior out of all your evils and distresses, and you said: “No, you should appoint a king over us.” Now take your stand before Jehovah by your tribes and by your thousands.’” God alone is our savior, even though He raised up "saviors" that acted for Him. Without God there is no savior. Isa 43:11 I-I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.” 12 “I am the One who declared and saved and made known When there was no foreign god among you. So you are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “and I am God. Yet Moses acted as a savior. The judges, like Samson acted as a savior. But they were saviors, or deliverers because of Jehovah, our ultimate Savior.
@@777Tralfaz777 1 Samuel 10:18 does not use the word "alone," but Job 9:8 does. You must read the context of Isaiah 43:11 False gods are in view (Isaiah 43:12). Apart from any strange god, YHWH alone is the Savior.
If Jesus believed he was God, why didn't he says that in prayer to his Father? (John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. If the apostles, who learned directly from Jesus thought Jesus was God, why didn't they say that in describing who God is? (1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. Wouldn't that have been the perfect opportunity to reveal their trinity, if it were true?
"The Bible is not written as i would like" That is basicly your argument. Calling Jesus the only Lord, is evidence for the trinity, as the only Lord is Jahve from the old testament. So Paul IDs Jesus as Jahve infront of your eyes and still you rebell.
@@banzaiduck You said ""The Bible is not written as i would like" That is basicly your argument." No. I agree with what the Bible actually says. I disagree with people's false claims of what it is saying. You said "Calling Jesus the only Lord, is evidence for the trinity," I don't believe so. The trinitarian argument is about "God" being 3 people. It isn't about a faithful servant of God, that God elevated because of his faithfulness. Who made Jesus our Lord? Wasn't it Jesus' God and Father that made him our Lord?
@@777Tralfaz777 as the only Lord is Jahve in the Old Testament, so by calling Jesus Lord Paul IDs Jesus as Jahve. If you are consistent you must claim that Paul is heretical, calling someone else Lord than Jahve.
@@777Tralfaz777 Exactly, So when Paul then claims Jesus is the only Lord, he IDs him as Jahve. Notice the key word in this case is "only" So now perhaps you can start to see how JW has misstranslated John 1:1. Jesus clearly claims that only God is good. Well if you know anything about new testament theology, the authors do everything to prove that Jesus was good. So if you are consistent you must claim that the whole new testament is heretical as it IDs Jesus as good when only God is good.
I have their New World Translation. It's amazing to me that their note references often refer to other scriptures that dispute their doctrine.
@cnreason it's not a misconception. Many of their footnotes dispute their own doctrines.
@cnreason I'd be happy to. For starters, Isaiah 44:6 is cross referenced to Revelation 22:13; Isaiah 9:6 to Luke 2:11; Ezekiel 34:11-17 is cross referenced to John 21:15, which is then referenced to John 10 verses. That's just a small handful.
@cnreason insults do not bolster your argument. The verses I gave you refer to Jehovah in the OT, and then are cross referenced to Jesus, which is accurate! Jehovah is the first and the last...Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and last. Jehovah is my Shepherd, as is Jesus, the Good Shepherd.... And on and on.
@@Sundayschoolnetwork owned 😆 😆.. Now here comes the The spirtual somersaults to avoid the topic
@@Sundayschoolnetwork yep.. Answers in turn like another false religion..(islamic) when u provides evidence and proof that shows their wrong.. Now the hate and belittling to win a debate.. This is not a debate, this is our eternal souls destination.. Come to the truth people.. Jesus- The Truth, Way, and the Life.. Without u can not have the father.. A.k.a Jehovah God
I watched this video a few months ago. God put it back in my feed just in time. I received a handwritten letter in my mailbox from a lady JW a few days ago. I’m going to respond and this video will be very helpful. Thank you, and God bless.
Excellent! Thank you, and God bless.
2:45 It is recommended to go in twos, as that is what Jesus did with the 70. It has absolutely nothing to do with "organizational control". I find it fascinating this man made that supposition.
I would often work by myself if there was an odd number.
Psalm 102:25-27 ESV
Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. [26] They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away, [27] but you are the same, and your years have no end.
-->only Jehovah doesn't change
--> Heb 1:10-12
Exact same words being said about Jesus
Can I show you another?
Jn12:41 --> Isa 6:1 Isa saw Jehovah...
Are they beginning to be trained on this hebrew 1 and psalm 102 argument yet? Surely this is now viral among jws?
What do you mean? Heb 1 shows Jesus' obedience to his God elevated him to a superior position. By God's authority.
3:55 ps102:25-27 in their bible; would this be true about anyone else but jehovah
5:30 then heb 1:8-10
5:30 About Ps 102: 25-27, that is in comparison to physical creation. The angels do not grow old or wear out. Physical creation may, but not spiritual creatures. The difference is God had no beginning.
If Heb 1:10-11 applies to Jesus, that is not an issue, as Jesus was God master worker (Prov 8:22). The one God created "through".
(John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
Notice the word "through". Do you remember how God delivered the Israelites through Moses?
Psalms 45:7 (NIV)
7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, YOUR GOD, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.
Verse 7 uses the expression “God, your God,” showing that the one addressed is not the Most High God but is a worshiper of that God.
Hebrews 1:8 quotes from Psalm 45:6, which originally was addressed to a human king of Israel. Obviously, the Bible writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was the Almighty God.
Solomon, who was possibly the king originally addressed in Psalm 45, was said to sit “upon Jehovah’s throne.”
1 Chronicles 29:23 (NIV)
So Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king in place of his father David. He prospered and all Israel obeyed him.
In harmony with the fact that God is the “throne,” or Source and Upholder of Christ’s kingship,God confers such authority on Jesus.
Luke 1:32 (NIV)
He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David
Jesus can't be Jehovah. According to Isaiah 44:7 only Jehovah knows the future. Jesus and the holy spirit does not know the day and hour when asked.
“Matthew 24:36 (NIV)But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,but only the Father. (The holy spirit did not know, only the Father)
At Revelation 1:1 Jesus is given a revelation from God. If Jesus himself were part of a Godhead, would he have to be given a revelation by another part of the Godhead while in heaven?
Wouldn't he already know if he were the true God and was equal to God?
Following Jesus resurrection, Jesus informed his disciples, “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth,” (Mt 28:18)
If Jesus was God Almighty and equal to God, wouldn't he already have all authority?
But Jesus says all authority was GIVEN him.
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name (Philippians 2:9)
If Jesus was God, wouldn't he already have a name above every other name?
Why would he need to be exalted by the other third of the godhead?
How could he be exalted further than the Almighty if he was the almighty and equal to God?
And those that are to rule as kings and priests with Christ in heaven for a thousand years are called his brothers, but to God they are called sons. See: Heb 2:10-12
The Almighty God does not have brothers in heaven.
There is a chart on the trinity that shows the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the holy spirit. So how can Jesus be Jehovah? And is the holy spirit also Jehovah?
If Jesus is Jehovah then Jesus prayed to himself.
The bible records no controversy about who God was in the 1st century. To the Jews and first century Christians the Father was God.
The trinity developed over centuries and came to what it is today at the Council of Constantinople in 381 A.D. when the holy spirit was added to the godhead. At the earlier Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. it was decided the father and son was of the same substance but it took another 56 years to add the holy spirit.
Jesus and his apostles did warn about an apostasy that would occur in later times.
Matthew 11:27
27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son except the Father; neither does anyone fully know the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.
But if the holy spirit were a person, the 3rd person of the godhead, wouldn't he also fully know the Father and Son?
But it says: "No one fully knows the Son except the Father." According to trinity dogma the Father is not the holy spirit.
At Hebrews 1:10, 11 the words of Psalm 102:25, 26 are applied to Jesus Christ. He, too, could be said to have ‘laid the foundations of the earth’ and produced the heavens as ‘the work of his hands’ because God’s only-begotten Son was God’s personal Agent employed in creating the physical universe. (John 1:1, 2; Col. 1:15, 16)
Proverbs 8:22 (New Living Translation):
22 “The LORD FORMED ME from the beginning, before he created anything else. 23 I was appointed in ages past, at the very first, before the earth began. 24 I WAS BORN before the oceans were created, before the springs bubbled forth their waters. 25 Before the mountains were formed, before the hills, I WAS BORN- 26 before he had made the earth and fields and the first handfuls of soil. 27 I was there when he established the heavens, when he drew the horizon on the oceans. 28 I was there when he set the clouds above, when he established springs deep in the earth. 29 I was there when he set the limits of the seas, so they would not spread beyond their boundaries. And when he marked off the earth’s foundations, 30 I was the architect at his side. I was his constant delight, rejoicing always in his presence. 31 And how happy I was with the world he created; how I rejoiced with the human family!
Proverbs 8:22 (NIV):
22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,before his deeds of old; 23 I WAS FORMED long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be. 24 When there were no watery depths, I WAS GIVEN BIRTH, when there were no springs overflowing with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I WAS GIVEN BIRTH, 26 before he made the world or its fields or any of the dust of the earth. 27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, 28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, 29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. 30 Then I was constantly at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, 31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.
According to scripture Jehovah created Jesus and Jesus was by his side working when the world was created. This is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe.
Notice only 2 persons was present during the worlds creation. God's power (holy spirit) was used, but it is not a person. It is personified in the bible like wisdom, water, blood and sin is personified. This explains why the holy spirit is not even mentioned as knowing the day and hour and why the holy spirit does not fully know the Father and Son.
Hebrews 1 does not prove a trinity at all. The trinity is supposed to be 3 persons in 1 God but you can't even prove 2 persons in 1 God.
“In the year that King Uzziah died I, however, got to see Jehovah, sitting on a throne lofty and lifted up, and his skirts were filling the TEMPLE.
Isaiah 6:8 says: Then I heard the voice of Jehovah saying: “Whom shall I send, and who will go for US?” And I said: “Here I am! Send me!
By using the plural pronoun “us”, Jehovah was including someone with himself, at least one other person. That other person was his only-begotten Son. That he is the one associated with Jehovah at the temple and included in the pronoun “us” is made certain for us in John 12:36-41, which has reference to Jesus Christ. Thus Jehovah and his only-begotten Son are two distinct individuals, not a trinity!
How can anyone come to the conclusion that Jehovah is the same person as Jesus? And how do 2 persons make a trinity?
How does this prove God is 3 persons in one God equal in eternity, power, position, and wisdom?
Does this account sounds familiar?
Let me see!
Luke 10:25-26 Now look! a man versed in the Law stood up to test him and said: “Teacher, what do I need to do to inherit everlasting life?” 26 He said to him: “What is written in the Law? How do you read?”
How do you read?
Hebrews 1:10-12 10 And: “At the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you will remain; and just like a garment, they will all wear out, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as a garment, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will never come to an end.”
Here Paul by divine inspiration quoted from the scriptures just like Jesus did in numerous occasions
In this case psalm 102: 24-27. By quoting psalms Paul gave the proper praise to the only one deserving such praise Jehovah God,
How do you explain verses 7-9. Hebrews 1:7 Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”
Who is the one making his angels spirits ?
Who makes the ministers a flame of fire?
Please explain this “ That is why God, your God , anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.
Who anointed Jesus with the oil of exultation? According to you almighty God is Jesus , so you believe that in this case Jesus anointed himself the oil of exultation, more than his companions
Who are the companions? Are they human? Or are they Angelic beings ? How many are there ?
So back to the question who Anointed Jesus ?
Jesus gave the answer at Luke 10: 18 Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free,
How do you read?
Remember that Paul before his conversion from Judaism to Christianity, he was well versed in the Hebrew Scriptures yet he recognized that all that schooling wherever he accomplished before becoming a Faithful follower of Jesus, he considered all as a lot of refuse!
Who were the superfine apostles? Mention at 2 Corinthians
Who are the superfine apostles in our day?
What’s their objective?
How is the god of this system of things blinding the eyes of the unbelievers?
Who is Babylon the great?
The scribe gave the right answer to Jesus , In answer he said: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’” 28 He said to him: “You answered correctly; keep doing this and you will get life.”
Just like the scribe, I don’t doubt that you are well versed on the scriptures, and that you have a vast knowledge specially in theology,
But do you sincerely follow Jesus steps closely?
Do you love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
Do you pay Caesar things to Caesar and things to God to God .?
Do you usually participate on man made holidays, of worldly origins rather than biblical origin?
Based on your comments you boast that you have the actual biblical truth and based on your knowledge and wisdom you can refute and disapprove Jehovah’s Witness believes. To me that is a presumptuous position, doesn’t the word of God warns against such behavior, Again sounds familiar, did or did it not the prideful religious leaders versed in the law tried to discredit the humble followers of Christ.
1 Corinthians 4:6 Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A·polʹlos for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other. 7 For who makes you different from another? Indeed, what do you have that you did not receive? If, in fact, you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?
Heb.8 reads like this in any other Bible. But about the Son he says, your throne o God is forever and ever . Jw translators mis translated that verse . Do you know the names of whom translated. The nwt Or are you to ashamed of the fact they were not Bible scrollers . I have the names if you want to know ? Erik Tonnisen
So you think God is a chair? Erik Tonnisen
If Jesus believed he was God, why didn't he says that in prayer to his Father?
(John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
If the apostles, who learned directly from Jesus thought Jesus was God, why didn't they say that in describing who God is?
(1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.
Wouldn't that have been the perfect opportunity to reveal their trinity, if it were true?
I'm not a scholar yet, but I will attempt to answer your question since no one else has. It seems to me that the deity of Christ and His lordship is vital to the apostles as they were demonstrating the nature of the Father and Son.
Why did He not mention their union in verse 3, well He eventually did just 2 verses later. They crucified Christ mostly because they charged Him guilty of blasphemy because He so often claimed unity and equality with the sovereign God of the universe. When Christ called the Father "Father," He is literally referring to His equality with Him because not a single person ever ventured to go that far. They really wouldn't even speak the name of the Father, yet Christ comes along and calls Him "Father" and all these other verses I could provide for you if you would like. Sometimes you have to go to the Greek to see it, but even if you couldn't, there are many direct references to His (Christ's) deity.
The apostles also referred to the deity of Christ a lot, and that 1Cor. verse you quoted didn't directly refer to it, it seems to me on the surface. But there are many other places
Shalom!
@@matthewburnette9674 Jesus is the only begotten son he is not God
@@scottgrey2877 You just refuted yourself... You can only begot or beget something of your nature. If God begot Jesus then Jesus is of the same essence of God. This proves Jesus is God for if God is eternal and begot Jesus then Jesus is eternal.
If JW ask about the thrinity just give them this verse from Bible
1 John 5:7
They changed this verse in their Bible so as to misslead. 1 John 5:7-8
Actually many Bibles say something like (1 John 5:7) For there are three witness bearers:
8 the spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
So the question is why is that verse different then yours? If you looked it up you would see your version is generally, and pretty much unanimously considered a spurious addition, that started out as a note in the margins, and later added to the text.
So what you're saying is based off of 3 scriptures you believe that Jesus is Jehovah? I wouldn't base my beliefs that Jesus is jehovah off of 3 scriptures. What about the rest of the Bible?
The strongest 3 texts*
All of this is irrelevant tho, because your church prophecies the return of Christ multiple times and failed each time lmao 😂
@@medzuslovjansky3075 I don't go to church!🤣
Why not deal with the three Scriptures?
@@fredrolinners8903 the reason I say that I myself; would not base my beliefs off of 3 scriptures is because there are more than 33,000 scriptures in the entire bible. Using 3 scriptures to say that Jesus is Jehovah doesn't make sense to me.
@@black_5691 It doesn't make sense to you because you won't accept what these 3 Scriptures teach. How many would be enough? 5? 10? 50? How many times does God have to teach something that is true in order for it to be true? Once is good enough for me.
When talking to a trinity believer ask them to explain it. Most of the time it going to be explain different. Some say Jesus ain’t God. Then the say Jesus is God. It confusing. Just keep it simple. The man point do the person who believe in the trinity is looking for the only true God Jehovah. Jesus own words. John 17:3 Jesus even told Peter that God reveal to you I’m the Christ, the Son of God. God never reveal a trinity doctrine.
Except John’s gospel is filled with Christ’s deity and Trinitarian scripture. John 12:41 lines up perfectly with the Septuagint’s translation of Isaiah 6. Lest we forget John 8:24, 58, where Jesus explicitly claims He is the I Am. John 14:16-17 is about as explicit as the Trinity gets in that Gospel. Now, you can try to use John 17, John 14:28, or John 10:30 to refute Trinitarianism but, in context, those verses are actually even more evidence to the Trinity being a biblical doctrine. Which is what the Gospel of John is about.
Every Gospel portrays Jesus as Yahweh in the flesh even Orthodox Jews/rabies also secular scholars acknowledge that the Gospels and the earliest Christians believed Jesus to be God.
i loved the Greg stafford vs James White debate...stafford a jw then defeated white.....with ease....
Check out Greg's Christian Witnesses of Jah channel here on TH-cam
How do you feel about Stafford now believing that Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer?
Jesus is not the Creator. . Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Matt 16:16,17. Jesus came in the flesh not God. 1 John 4:2,3 the trinity origin is Babylon. The Babylonian trinity is Semiramis and Tammuz and Nimrod. The catholic trinity is father, Son and Holy Spirit. Not a biblical teaching. Jesus never taught a trinity. 1 Tim 6:3,4 Those who teach the trinity misinterpret the bible to support a false catholic trinity doctrine. God was never human. God is a spirit. John 4:24 Jehovah alone is the Most High. Ps 83:18 Jesus said his father is the only true God. John 17:1-3 Again the trinity is no part of the scriptures.
Colossians 1 literally speaks to how Jesus created though
Zachariah 2-8 , jehovah sent jehovah lol Zachariah 12-10 jehovah being pierced. These have had the witnesses I spoke to completely stumped
(Zechariah 2:8) For this is what Jehovah of armies says, who after being glorified has sent me to the nations that were plundering you: ‘Whoever touches you touches the pupil of my eye.
Zech 12:10 “I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of favor and supplication, and they will look to the one whom they pierced, and they will wail over him as they would wail over an only son; and they will grieve bitterly over him as they would grieve over a firstborn son.
Please explain.
2:45 It is recommended to go in twos, as that is what Jesus did with the 70. It has absolutely nothing to do with "organizational control". I find it fascinating this man made that supposition.
I would often work by myself if there was an odd number.
The 70 didn’t go out door to door. They went to a town, stayed in one house and taught people there or in the synagogues.
@@Nick-wn1xw They were to find "those who were deserving". How do you suppose they did that?
Acts 5:42 And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.
5:30 About Ps 102: 25-27, that is in comparison to physical creation. The angels do not grow old or wear out. Physical creation may, but not spiritual creatures. The difference is God had no beginning.
If Heb 1:10-11 applies to Jesus, that is not an issue, as Jesus was God master worker (Prov 8:22). The one God created "through".
(John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.
Notice the word "through". Do you remember how God delivered the Israelites through Moses?
This proves Jesus is God because the Bible teaches God alone is the Creator (Job 9:8).
@@fredrolinners8903 Just like God delivered Israel through Moses, God created through Jesus.
Notice the word "through".
John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world came into existence through him, but the world did not know him.
@@777Tralfaz777 That's why the Bible doesn't say God did it all alone apart from Moses. But the Bible does say God created the heavens alone (Job 9:8).
Big difference.
@@fredrolinners8903 I believe you are wrong. God alone delivered Israel. He did it through Moses. Without God, Moses could do nothing.
1 Sam 10:18 and said to the Israelites: “This is what Jehovah the God of Israel says: ‘It was I who brought Israel up out of Egypt and who rescued you from the hand of Egypt and from the hand of all the kingdoms that were oppressing you. 19 But today you have rejected your God who was your Savior out of all your evils and distresses, and you said: “No, you should appoint a king over us.” Now take your stand before Jehovah by your tribes and by your thousands.’”
God alone is our savior, even though He raised up "saviors" that acted for Him. Without God there is no savior.
Isa 43:11 I-I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.”
12 “I am the One who declared and saved and made known
When there was no foreign god among you.
So you are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “and I am God.
Yet Moses acted as a savior. The judges, like Samson acted as a savior. But they were saviors, or deliverers because of Jehovah, our ultimate Savior.
@@777Tralfaz777 1 Samuel 10:18 does not use the word "alone," but Job 9:8 does.
You must read the context of Isaiah 43:11 False gods are in view (Isaiah 43:12). Apart from any strange god, YHWH alone is the Savior.
If Jesus believed he was God, why didn't he says that in prayer to his Father?
(John 17:3) This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
If the apostles, who learned directly from Jesus thought Jesus was God, why didn't they say that in describing who God is?
(1 Corinthians 8:6) there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.
Wouldn't that have been the perfect opportunity to reveal their trinity, if it were true?
"The Bible is not written as i would like" That is basicly your argument.
Calling Jesus the only Lord, is evidence for the trinity, as the only Lord is Jahve from the old testament. So Paul IDs Jesus as Jahve infront of your eyes and still you rebell.
@@banzaiduck You said ""The Bible is not written as i would like" That is basicly your argument."
No. I agree with what the Bible actually says. I disagree with people's false claims of what it is saying.
You said "Calling Jesus the only Lord, is evidence for the trinity,"
I don't believe so. The trinitarian argument is about "God" being 3 people. It isn't about a faithful servant of God, that God elevated because of his faithfulness.
Who made Jesus our Lord? Wasn't it Jesus' God and Father that made him our Lord?
@@777Tralfaz777 as the only Lord is Jahve in the Old Testament, so by calling Jesus Lord Paul IDs Jesus as Jahve.
If you are consistent you must claim that Paul is heretical, calling someone else Lord than Jahve.
@@banzaiduck Deut 10:17 For Jehovah your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords,
@@777Tralfaz777 Exactly, So when Paul then claims Jesus is the only Lord, he IDs him as Jahve.
Notice the key word in this case is "only"
So now perhaps you can start to see how JW has misstranslated John 1:1.
Jesus clearly claims that only God is good. Well if you know anything about new testament theology, the authors do everything to prove that Jesus was good. So if you are consistent you must claim that the whole new testament is heretical as it IDs Jesus as good when only God is good.