@@tamasratkai1130 Every time I hear this, I'm reminded of the many posts on dcs venues complaining about helo problems in dcs. AAA, laser guided shots, ak-47 single bullet taking them out, etc. 🙃
@@mnmailman3489I still waiting for Microprose's Apache sim... In the 3rd year after the lone teasing picture... The established sims need more competition.
@@tamasratkai1130 True. Unfortunately, the days of any somewhat meaningful amount of flight sim competition is long gone and never to return. No one is interested in developing them for various reasons.
Important thing is there's room for both. Also, I disagree that DCS players want 'instant action'. The majority are pretty serious about learning the ins and outs of each aircraft. Sure, some do want that. But I don't think DCS is very friendly to those types of players. The learning curve is steep.
@@RikkiSan1 Realy? Learning to fly a beginner friendly fly-by-wire aircraft like the F-16 is a challenge for you? The F-16 is by far one of the easiest aircraft to learn ever (maybe besides the Hornet) and you seriously want to claim BMS has a steep learning curve? I want some of what you´ve been smokin´...Try the F-14 Tomcat, Phantom or the Apache. But if the F-16 is already a challenge for you, well....
@@r4dio4ctiv3man9 There's a HUGE difference between learning to 'fly' the plane and learning to use it to the point where you can be useful as part of a BMS campaign. Of course, in DCS it usually suffices to know how to kinda move your joystick about, set Master Arm to ON, and then go into A-A mode before joining a random Air Quake server.
@@VenomShadows305 Well, you also need to know the limits of your radar wich is not necessary in BMS as BMS does not have a radar logic, but is just doing some voodoo magic to calculate what should be on the scope. You should also be familiar with the effect of dense air in order to reduce the enemies missile range, wich is also unimportant in BMS, as BMS does not have a proper physics engine. Your fake arguement about the BMS campaign is as fake as your wifes orgasm. I do Falcon since 3.0 and i very much know the campaign. There is not realy something special in learning how to be effective, that is just bs. The sorties in the BMS campaign are generated, you can just set wich type of missions should be prefered. Jump into the sortie, follow mission objectives and react to some unexpected threats from time to time. Your desperate try to make the BMS campaign look as if it is something complicated to be effective in, may work with someone who does not know the BMS campaign, but for me it is just ridicolous. The dynamic campaign is all BMS have and it is not realy something that makes it a better sim. Better campaign, yes. Better sim is the one with proper sensor logic, proper physics, beeing able to simulate both, helicopters and fixed wing and a larger variety of aircraft. Learning to fly and operate the Apache only is way more complex and difficult than learning BMS as a whole. And in BMS you will never be able to learn how to operate as a team in a 2 seat aircraft, wich is a complete different league of operating an aircraft. Like BMS, DCS is evolving all the time and since the multithread update and the resulting headroom in CPU power, ED was able to use a separate thread for the AI wich is a massive game changer. The AI has made enormous progress and is still far from beeing finished. Same for the ATC and the DC. DCS has always delivered what was promised, although it took always longer thasn expected. Rewriting the engine to make it multithread capable is the best example. Give DCS 2 or 3 more years and there is nothing left Falcon is doing better or even on par. Falcon will always be single thread and therefore limited in physics, AI, fake sensors and everything else that needs CPU power to the point it has already achieved.
I played Falcon 4 way back when I was young, tinkered with the Dynamic Campaign for countless hours. Good times. These days I play DCS with a VR headset. Just recently installed BMS and boom, it hits hard. Performance in VR is butter smooth. All the old memories come rushing back. Its like a long lost friend suddenly showing up and giving you a warm hug. All the keybindings are automatically applied so I had zero problems transitioning. In VR, it doesn't look much different, as DCS isn't so great in VR either (if you want reasonable performance). For the F-16, BMS in unparalelled...I've seen things happen in BMS that I've never had in DCS. The RWR sings in BMS. The 20 year old Dynamic Campaign engine beats DCS even today. But for other planes, DCS takes the cake. The Phantom is Phenomenal, and for naval ops DCS is king right now. And while I'm guilty of airquaking sometimes, not all DCS players are airquakers. Many do complex missions seriously, and the best part of it is, we can have proper PVP milsim red vs blue with a variety of airframes, even down to flyable SAR helos. So yeah, each has it strengths. We just can't generalize the comunities into stereotypes. I think these two sims can coexist for the same community really.
Great comment. I just got into DCS a few months ago, and I haven't tried BMS yet, but I'm coming from the racing side of simulator obsessions where I have much more experience. It's funny because the same sort of comparisons and generalizations are made with racing sims. Which is the most realistic? Which does X or Y best? Which has the best graphics, physics, feedback, etc.? People think they want one "king of it all" sim, and ideally that would be great, but in reality, competition in the market is a good for everyone.
@@angryginger791 thanks for your insight from the racing sim community. I do think of DCS and BMS as tools in our workshops, each tool may do different things. If one can invest into getting into DCS, it won't hurt to add BMS to your toolkit (price is negligible compared to DCS). In fact, BMS currently has the only full-fidelity F-15C, while the one in DCS is low-fidelity. But for PVP milsim against player controlled MiGs and Flankers, DCS is the way to go. So both these tools can coexist for the same flightsim community I think.
hello. I am from south Korean. in my opinion ,bms is better than dcs. When comparing two existing games, you have to think about which game is better overall. The person who made this video has played both and gives his opinion. I have played both and give my opinion. It is a DCS without dynamic campaigns. Dynamic campaigns simulate with dynamic and large-scale wars. Dynamic campaign is very important things. I like BMS better because DCS does not have dynamic campaigns.
I played dcs for almost 10 years but when i changed to VR, DCS has performance issues even when i changed to a new rig. Now im starting with BMS in the performance is outstanding. Much more fun.
Probably not set up right then I would guess. I am playing with almost maxed out settings on a 5 year old rig with locked FPS at 72 on a Quest 3. Never any issues.
@@chrmez 72 isn't do able for me. I'm also playing on a quest 3 (soon switching to pimax crystal) I maxed out resolution on 1.5 on 90hz. And use Super sampling otherwise I think it looks to blurry. With those settings I managed to maintain 90 fps but still micro stuttering when coming close to ground. It's annoying. I'm tweaking dcs for months now. Glad I switched over to BMS.
@@r4dio4ctiv3man9 thats the difference between BMS pilots and DCS players.... We respect you game, you laught to our sim.... And thats the reason why you never will be a pilot 😊
BMS just works! No game braking bugs, no fps bugs, no mayor bugs in general. No drama, no anti consumer practices, no false promises etc. It's plug & play all the way
I love BMS (Im from Falcon 3.0 days) and just started DCS and love the F/A-18C. I feel like i have best of both worlds as i can do carrier stuff on DCS. All good. Challenge to know and be proficient in BMS...just the IFF stuff has so many pages to learn! Very good simulator. And BMS runs nicely with an average machine. Graphics arent bad...I'd take it for the performance it gives. Good video.
After the Razbam debacle I started flying bms again. Now I'm completely hooked! Great depth and performance. Just the ATC is worth it! So much more immersive.
@user-tc6kf3we2p the F15E and other Razbam moduals are now longer getting updates because of Razbam-ED dispute. For many, this has turned them off DCS on the whole.
@@DavidMegaw I think my reply got deleted? DCS is screwing their customers by not paying RAZBAM for their work and now the Strike Eagle is likely forever incomplete.
@@DavidMegaw they are one of the most prolific third party aircraft module developers for DCS, responsible for Strike Eagle, Mirage 2K, Harrier, and MiG 19. They were also working on a much-anticipated MiG-23. the F-15E was recently released and is unfinished, and the older aircraft could be rendered unflyable in future DCS versions due to bugs. People are also worried a similar issue may affect other third party developers
As someone who played both and played civilian sims, I think BMS is for those who enjoy the military environment simulation. Just like those who enjoy virtual airlines on civilian sims. DCS is better for those who enjoy military planes, and not that much the military "roleplay", or don't have the free time required for a military sim
Informative video. I played with the idea to fly BMS, but i just lack the time, and even in DCS after 1000's of hours i am moving back to FC3 style aircraft more and more. I think the ability to learn and get going "quick" is a strong suit of DCS for sure with lots of freedom. The biggest issue is that, as you mention WT and MFS is that people love to be polarised as hell for whatever reason. They all can, and should, coexist and one can enjoy more than 1 of these games. I mean, one can enjoy doing a perfect Case 3 at night in a storm in a Tomcat on DCS and then jump off and fire of Project Wingman or Ace Combat after, because why not.
I agree the BMS / DCS mindset is different I play both, but I started out with Falcon 4 way back when. I am just a single mission maker / player. I still like the way you can set up a flight package with an ECM jammer SEAD STRIKE, along with an E2C AWACs in BMS. I think the biggest plus for BMS is the fact that they have an actual community, and I am great full for it. I was never accepted into the DCS world, and that is ok as I was lucky enough to serve in naval aviation back in the day. I can now flight sim new and old planes.
BMS clicks more to me, maybe because I started out with games like IL2 1946 and Wings over Europe/Vietnam, where you had some sort of semi dynamics campaigns, different types of missions, pilot ranks and their respective roles in missions. DCS and before that, Lockon series were more of a aircraft simulator
1:52 No, I think this part is wrong. The full fidelity modules can take weeks, if not months to master. If you are talking about gameplay, well that's another story. People, if you don't play DCS and expect to get up and going in a single day, try the Mig 21 and discover this is not possible. I play BMS and DCS for very different reasons, none that are represented in this video, it's just preference and opinions as always.
@@AviationPlus this video is more about your mindset about other people, that supposed to be shared love for avia/mil-sims with, instead of spilling hate on, literally
@@AviationPlus The mindset is absolutely different. Not a single video of the DCS community hating on BMS, but a lot of from the BMS community doing so about DCS. That is very telling about the mindset of the BMS community. I do various simulators (DCS, BMS, iRacing, ACC, AMS2 etc.) and the BMS community is by far the most arrogant of all.
@@r4dio4ctiv3man9 Well nothing is made up and comes from somewhere with truth to it. There are plenty of DCS players that dismiss BMS simply because of graphics very telling of the mindset of the DCS community.
@@AviationPlus And you are so pissed about some people dismissing BMS, that you had to make a video about it? Or what exactly is the reason for this video? Or all your other hate videos about DCS? This realy adds to the fact that the BMS community is one of the most arrogant of the complete PC game genre, with your channel representing this mindset realy accurate. One of the reasons i´m doing BMS singleplayer only. The community is just full of arrogant wannabe elite simmers, beeing totally helpless as soon as they don´t have a fly-by-wire beginner aircraft like the F-16. BMS simulates one of the easiest aircraft to learn ever and still people claim to be the "real" simmers. I don´t give a sh*t about graphics (although they highly add to the immersion in VR), but i want proper simulated sensors and physics. And this is were BMS is just a bottom feeder. Air thickness isn´t simulated and the radar is doing some voodoo magic to calculate if your radar should see the bandit or not. In DCS, there is a proper radar logic actually scanning the area in front of your aircraft. I recently tried to find a parked aircraft on the ground with radar ground mapping image with BMS. No joy, as BMS just displays a pre-saved map on the scope. BMS simulates campaign, DCS simulates aircraft.
here's my take and personal opinion: while i adore both sims for their fidelity I love BMS more because DCS has become less of a simulator and more of a 'find the best aircraft that has the best weapons and own the entire lobby' kind of thing these days while BMS is a real 'work with what you get' kinda sim. Sure you can still change the loadouts but in BMS it doesn't matter if you have the best armament if you can't use what you are already given.
Both are fantastic games. In DCS, hard core rotor head. BMS a fricking viper campaigns and yes mindset is very different! Great video! Also, online with both is the best experience I have found!
I've seriously began to realize that no matter which sim people like people are gonna get flustered and circle the wagons think I'm just gonna keep my head down xD
Got the Viper in DCS, loved it, downloaded BMS and flew for a bit, loved it even more. But Im still learning all the systems and DCS feels easier to setup training missions to learn things like tanking and IFR so thats where Im spending more time. But Im still looking forward to trying the dynamic campaign in BMS. If you like flying the F16 the 2 can complement each other. The systems in the BMS viper are also way less buggy at the moment. Edit: One of my neighbors used to work with the Microprose guys
Last time I played BMS, it had a bunch of training missions and the manual contained a walkthrough for all of them. This made learning individual systems pretty easy.
I feel like the issue you have, is that you've only experienced growling sidewinder servers, and have converced with people in the ED general chat. I have absolutely no clue how you can be so wrong about the mindset of DCS players otherwise. Basically everything you praise about BMS, having 1 life missions etc i do weekly in DCS. You just have to join the right community, there are plenty of groups around. BMS and DCS are both nice, but lets not pretend that 1 is the elite and the other is somehow a airquacke sim, because personally i have never experienced this in the 6 plus years i fly DCS. The only real thing i'd say BMS has over DCS is the dynamic campaign, which is the main attraction point. But again, i'd advise to broathen your horizon a bit, meet some other people then the people you've been convercing with.
Been a long time DCS player since 2017 and started BMS a couple months ago and I can’t go back to DCS. Planning and flying missions actual feel like I’m contributing to a larger effort. Plus the performance is great considering all the ground units and air units. The only thing I miss is flying helicopters like AH64.
You hit the nail on the head with the comparison of the Viper between DCS and BMS. I flew BMS from way back when Falcon 4.0 first released so BMS is in my heart for a F-16 SIM. When I picked up the DCS Viper, it still felt more like an arcade game when it didn't have the capabilities I was used to with BMS. I still love to fly both, but the dynamic campaign with BMS can't be beat (I'm a single player type). I do love the ease with which I can immerse in DCS with VR. Now that BMS has VR, it IS the more complete SIM.
BMS has soul and makes you feel like you're part of something big. Comms alone are more enjoyable than the entire DCS experience for me. That said, I've been with DCS since the Russian Black Shark release, and played LOMAC and Flanker before that. I like Eagle Dynamics but BMS is always more enjoyable and only getting better. As for the community, it's just more mature. I don't know why people think we're snobby. There was a lot of infighting between projects (OpenFalcon, FreeFalcon etc) but overall I find we're less toxic than the DCS crowd.
You're not less toxic than the DCS crowd, you're less toxic towards each other, but you're extremely hostile to everyone outside of the BMS community. Just scroll through this comment section. Bashing DCS players won't convince them to come over. I've seen shit goes as far as DCS players coming to BMS, asking about stuff that was different w/r to F-16 modelling between DCS in BMS and get called an "ED spy". Also any even slightest criticism is disregarded - to the point that in those rare cases where DCS does in fact do something more realistically, the BMS crowd will instead call it broken or unrealistic (like the whole "splash damage" debacle - some bombs in BMS have yield of small nuclear weapons, yet people use that as a benchmark for other sims)
@@delayed_control Not trying to bring them over just letting them know if they do leave the DCS mindset at the door. Also one of many first questions I get from them is "Is there a mod to make graphics better"
@@delayed_controlkinda feel like the comments didn’t pass the vibe check. Pretty new overall and chasing that semblance of brotherhood with people who are willing to teach. DCS crowd hasn’t been too helpful in my travels and I’m starting to consider BMS and other options.
@AviationPlus graphics help immersion Sims are supposed to be immersive I don't see why that's such a taboo point But you can gtfo with that "leave DCS at the door" Yall are seriously toxic, and cultist over a piece of software. You arnt real pilots My experiences with the Falcon fans is exactly what that guy said. Easily those most toxic sim gamers out there. I don't even play MP. I don't even ask Falcon be like DCS I enjoy both. But for some reason you Falcon fans absolutely seeth and mald and fume at somebody simply enjoying DCS and minding their own business Seriously. A common thing I see on Falcon TH-cam videos and reddit posts is constant "DCS DOESNT HAVE THIS" WHEN NOBODY NOT A SINGLE SOUL MENTIONED DCS
@@mailman35419 Wow hit a nerve. Simulation is nothing without mimicking real life physics and symptomatic workings of avionics. Without accuracy graphics mean nothing.
I am a long time DCS player and I have to say that BMS is much friendlier when it comes to time management, the fact that I can choose cold, runway or airstart in each mission saves a lot of time and gives me the option.
Fair comments Prime! I do a similar amount of both and BMS is good when I have the time to focus on the mission and my strategy. DCS rarely feels like I need to..
Very well said. I will say running a Dynamic Campaign in BMS just on Day 3/ mission 10 cooperative multiplayer , has been more rewarding than anything in DCS maybe say a paid campaign coming close, however the paid campaigns in DCS are still not online cooperative without modifying.
What a great video (as always), nice summarization and well put together comparison. Something i would add regarding DCS, on top of money for modules and demanding graphs (expensive pc required) due to poor optimization, is the ridiculous amount of hard disk drive required. As a former DCS videographer, i remember how modules, mods, maps, liveries etc... took a well over 1TB of disk space, nuts. BMS is fantastic for all the reasons you mentioned and i really like how it quickly filters out "bad" or "weird" players that lack patience and/or manners. Everytime i have prompted a new player towards the BMS manuals i never heard back from them again :P Anyways, Keep up the good work man! Cheers
Also the performance, holy cow the perfomance of BMS is amazing, I don't need several graphic presets like I do in the DCS when flying in the VR. Yes, the graphic is dated in the BMS but I don't think many people will notice this while you are dropping bomb or dog fighting.
Depending on what you are after. As someone who makes youtube vidoes. The graphics of DCS is a major selling point. You got big youtube channels that make enough money for the content creators to have it as their main income. And on a personal level when flying in VR, bad graphics can pull you out of the immersion. Especially the ground graphics. Fine if dropping bombs at 25 000 feet. Not so nice if if going in low with Mavs or guns. I'm just dipping my toes in BMS, I had hoped it would have the classic block 10/15 A models. But doesn't appear to have those. It has a block 15, but updated versions. That can use AIM120 etc.
I got into DCS because of the helos in VR, but actually did try BMS at some point. I felt at time right away in the F16, but the variety of airframes is what brings me back to DCS.
@@AviationPlus good question, I guess sorta both. Once I finished the individual campaigns that shipped with them, the planes are amortized for me. This would be the 'obligation' part. However, I enjoy many of them past that point in online game play, which is what brings me back to DCS without feeling obliged anymore. I guess for the price of the average DCS module, I expect 20-30 hours of gameplay, sort of what you expect from a FPS game. Cheaper, but often done after 10-15 hours. BMS would be unbeatable according to this metric. You get the Falcon collection from GoG for 10 bucks, download BMS update and it would be written off after 2-3 hours ;-) Having said that, I uninstall most games after I finished the main story and move on. That seems not to be the case for DCS for me. But as hinted above, it is the helos that attract me most about DCS.
Man… I’ve been flying DCS since 2010, when I got on black shark and A10… I never tried BMS. I was always intrigued by it, but by the time I got heavily into sims in 2016 and I started VR, I knew I could never go back to 2d. When BMS got VR support I officially took a look at it, but not until a few days ago did I really give it the honest old college try, and… I am completely floored at how far ahead of dcs BMS is… frankly it’s embarassing. It upsets me because I’m a hog driver at heart, but BMS is just.. sigh. I need some time to think 😂
My thoughts (as I fly both) - BMS is far more satisfying for F-16 simulation, the F-15C is coming along really well, and is a joy. I regard DCS as a gateway to BMS with the F-15C, F-15E and F-16C modules, and it gives me the Mirage F-1 and Mirage 2000 which I fly a *lot* - so there's no disappointment, and the recent FC-4 module (for cheap) has enhanced the enjoyment. The Spitfire in DCS is another enjoyable component, though I do have IL-2 Bodenplatte (spiritual successor to Janes WWII Fighters) as well, which rounds out the modern military sims regularly flown.
You should keep an eye on Cliffs of Dover blitz. It is almost a ww2 version of Falcon BMS. It's been improved by a small team working mostly for peanuts. It's slow going, but they are adding VR and graphics updates. Pluss have a decade worth of planed expansion packs. This year they'll add the first flyable B17 in a ww2 sim in over a decade. It's more realistic than IL2, har fae better terrain graphics than IL2. Has the best ww2 damage modeling. Over 100 aircraft and aircraft models to fly(they have like 20 different types of Hurricanes, Spitfires, and 109s) I'm beta testing the vr/visual update and once that is fully released. I probably won't fly DCS WW2 or IL much.
Great comparison. I fly both as well but only the F16 in DCS. It’s pretty and sounds cool! Getting back into BMS as I left the sim when RP, E Razor, FreeFalcon... existed and got tired of running multiple copies and endless patching just to fly with friends. I’m happy that It’s only BMS now and patching is one click now. Remember when we had to do constant clean installs? ....the good old days.
Great video and I have played both. Now I belong to a group who runs min 3 servers 24/7 with many individual missions. The big difference for me is DCS requires it's customers to make it entertaining and provide missions and content. Most of us to fly any of the campaigns. BMS dynamic mission generation is fantastic. I but many modules in DCS however this is to support the developers. I fly one aircraft the F16. My comment is aren't we lucky we have choices. I agree everyone wants something slightly different from a sim. Great content thank you
My favorite plane is F-14, but that's no excuse not to learn/play F-16 in BMS. I completely agree with what you said in the video. As for single player, DCS feels like a constraint of triggering scripted things with predetermined outcomes. Even if DCS mission creators strive for realism, that's the limit of the DCS game engine. On the other hand, BMS has a more alive world even in single player. Also, core features on DCS are quite inferior to BMS. Radios in DCS do not behave like an actual radio without SRS. some radio responses are inaccurate, tanker drogues behave very sloppy comparing to BMS (YES. BMS has much better physics in AAR drogue than DCS'). Having a hope of these things be fixed any time soon is waste of time because adding aircrafts is generates more money. I still love to play DCS in naval operations. It's a unique experience and carrier flight deck crew is immersive, but in terms of a flight simulator, those stuffs are just an eye candy. If my favorite were F-16, I'd just stick with BMS.
I've just started playing BMS again after a few years and I had absolutely no idea how to do anything for a few days, apart from the basics of taking off, flying and landing! A really steep learning curve. Just about got the hang of the COMMS and AA radar dogfighting again.
I disagree with the assessment of the DCS community. The DCS community is one of button-pushers rather than military simmers. They want to spend weeks doing cold starts and practicing simple sandbox scenarios. Most of them get upset if you decide to use the autostart function to not waste time on turning on the plane every time. When they get to a more complex environment they absolutely panic because it's not the turkey shoot of air to ground or the glorified team deathmatch that is pvp air to air. There's many videos on this platform of people gloating about taking down serious SAM threats with just a single plane, because that SAM is not part of any IADS, it's conveniently placed near terrain features that make the approach safe, and it emits like a mofo even when there's nothing in the vicinity of it. Enigma said it well in one of his videos: The DCS' Player Loop is one of waiting for a module to come out, learn to push all buttons for a month, then waiting for the next module to come out and repeat the process again.
I am new to flight sims and started with DCS. The tutorials are great and really allowed me to make sense of a modern cockpit. I found BMS a few weeks later and set it up after buying Falcon 4.0 for like 6 bucks. I'm pretty much dedicating all my time to BMS now because the campaign system is so cool. Still love my Mig 15 in DCS though lol
BMS creates stories you want to tell. The unknown and dynamic nature of the campaign creates memorable experiences. An escort mission goes off without a hitch, but during the egress you realize the enemy scrambled a 2-ship of 29s, you have no missiles left, and they are in *hot pursuit*.
Here is my thought. There is only 1 reason i spend my time in DCS. It allows me to get very intimate with a number of very iconic aircrafts i have been dreaming about all my life. The idea to know exactly how to start a Spitfire or an AH-64D Apache is everything for me. This is the same reason why BMS will never appear in my HD. Aircraft variety is 100% why i own DCS. No other reason. I don’t care about multiplayer or dynamic campaigns. I don’t care about knowing 100% one aircraft. I care about knowing 80% a moltitudine of aircraft. I care about sitting inside the cockpit of an F-14 having all systems replicated with deep enough realism. That’s it. I confirm my love for DCS when i look at a Spitfire and i feel i know exactly where controls are and know how to use them. One airplane getting 100% of my sim time? No thanks.
While I haven't tango'd with DCS (I come from a place where spending 60 dollars on a single plane is a crazy luxury too rich for my blood) my other comparison ends up being something like Il-2, which while is a much older time frame, does feel more like DCS in the way you've described the content, server list, jump in, blow up stuff, jump out and all. Having spent almost a hundred hours since I bought it, I was reminded a lot of BMS, which was my first flight sim, by virtue of the much lower barrier to entry. Though yes, it is a lot more complex, something I've found is that despite the massive skill ceiling, BMS has a pretty generous skill floor. I felt much more capable at 100 hours of BMS than I do at 100 hours of Il-2. Also the viper flies like an absolute dream and I love it in comparison to the warbirds. So here's to many more hours of BMS for me. Maybe I'll start getting good at some point :)
I love BMS but one serious down-side is that the regular MP matches take a LONG time. Like, just forget about it if you don't have at least a solid two or three-hour block. In that regard, DCS MP seems to be much friendlier to those with little free time, at the expense of realism and cooperative gameplay.
I can see that but it depends on who briefs the package mission. The same can be said about DCS if you have a slideshow and a proper debrief it is going to take a while to finish up.
We fly in a squadron with other people in DCS, it is very similar to the average BMS experience, except that its a static campaign. Based on what you said, I would transfer to BMS but it still doesnt really have the Hornet from what Ive heard.
Of course it has Hornet. You can fly it. Perhaps it is not a high fidelity cockpit, but it's there with its own flight mode. I fly it a lot of times when I want to experience something different than F-16C dogfighting, then I load up hornet.
i've been playing BMS for more than 15 years when I tried DCS I felt bored and I found the the F-16 still needs improvements especially on the RWR and I noticed some weird things such as the SA-10 shooting at you just like an SA-2 which is not logical, I like to fly old varients of the F-16 too which I couldn't find there. I'm an F-16 addict and I find myself comfortable in dynamic campaign more than anything else. it's hard for me to play other sim rather than BMS it's home for me, the community is amazing too.
The maps dont even look that bad when your High up in Falcon BMS, it imo can even compete with DCS maps(if your not on the ground or flying low). I played DCS long before I started Falcon BMS. I once saw a Tiktok and wondered "hmm this isnt DCS what is this?" and after a bit of research I found out its Falcon BMS, after more research I found out it had Dynamic Campaign, in 0.2 seconds I had the game bought and was googling the mod(first I was a bit confused since it was a mod but I thought its a game so that caused confusion) but yeah if Falcon BMS didnt have Dynamic I probably wouldnt even have bought it. For some reason I cant really get into Falcon BMS the way I get into DCS. It might be the graphics or controls or just the fact that Im more familiar with DCS. I found a great Dynamic Mission in DCS which really got me back into DCS before I was spending most time in ME creating missions that I test and then play once or twice. The mission kinda acts like Dynamic Campaign in Falcon BMS, you can go into communication menu and then like click Air to Ground mission and then theres even more stuff you can chose like do you want actual air to ground or do you want sead etc. if you click sead for example, a SAM site will get created randomly on the map and you can go and kill that SAM. the name is Through The Inferno and they also have a discord.
Interesting video. I liked it. If I understand your point correctly, then the fact that BMS players are considered more focused on authentic air operations, or more "serious", seems to stem from a lack of options, and not that the community is inherently so. It seems a false perception if BMS servers are mostly private servers for virtual squadrons and comparing those private servers to DCS's public community servers. A mor apt comparison would be private server to private server, I guess. In which guess I'm betting the virtual squadrons in both games are quite similar. Having never played BMS, I do tend to agree that the F-16 is probably better represented in BMS, as its a love-child of the community and not of a business that has other modules to finish. Even the F-15C...I like watching BMS Eagle videos, because the aircraft is waaay better represented in BMS than it is in DCS. While you mentioned that DCS has a lot of module (all of which are comparatively expensive) I think the one thing that was not mentioned is what the amount of those different aircraft allows communities and mission designers to do. Large diverse player-flown aircraft packages. Covering down on one platforms deificiencies with another. You can't rolex AI, so interactiveness between different platforms is a great thing. I think this is the bread and butter of DCS atm, not so much the air quake, that the loudest guys in the community seem to propagate. Watching mission plannig in BMS also is cool, can't wait for the dynamic campaign, DTCs and air mission planning to be fully implemented in DCS. #2weeks
You *can* do hardcore mil-sim missions in DCS in a similar way to BMS, but as you correctly point out, it does take more setup time and having someone willing to do that work. I've done that a few times and hosted private events. While public servers are indeed often Air Quake, I wonder how many private DCS missions are going on that we just never hear about.
I have BMS but I rarely fly it. I know Graphics are not the be all end all, but they are important. They immerse you and that is what it's all about. If graphics were not important, you may as well have the original graphics from Falcon 4, and we do not. I know that BMS though has improvements coming and I look forward to them. I wonder why the BMS team just doesn't start charging money and fund development so that they can make improvements on a larger scale?
@Crunch104 Graphics should be true to life but if you can get a the F-16 to go 800 knots and not have any consequences it defeats the purpose. In other words simulation and physics are more important than graphics.
IMO the statement "graphics doesn't mean more realistic" is not for the flight sim. For proper simulation, you need both. You need it all. You need dynamic world/campaign, you need photo-realistic graphics, you need proper control devices (force-sensing stick and pedals if we talk about F-16). Without any of these you miss a lot of realism. If you fly low and fast and it doesn't enable tunnel vision, adrenaline and stuff, you miss a lot of physical perception. If the game world is basically dead (like in DCS), you miss another kind of immersion. Generally DCS and BMS both simulate just some part of the actual thing. People choose between them because there's no other option.
Hello! Very reasonable comparison. I opened Falcon BMS for myself after being involved in all that 64HD supercinematic and so on in DCS. Now I have numerous modules most of which I have never even launched yet. I love to fly real helicopters and I appreciate all f/Sim developers for their work to transfer real flights in any home all around the world. MSFS/DCS/X-PLANE/BMS... Literally every. Side developers are cool, you know it guys. But BMS is something that I cannot compare with my previous experience. As I'm a real helicopter pilot I always seek to have Sims for helicopters that means that jets are something secondarily for me. In DCS I took all helos before starting to gather jets. I wasn't really interested in airplanes. For sure it's fun and interesting but secondarily. Of course I have an early issued f-16c in DCS. And once I have an offer from the YT algorithm to watch a video about f-16 in BMS. Occasionally. To summarise all that boring stuff. I really was close enough to miss this wonderful work of a really cool team (or maybe one guy)) It's true that the DCS F-16 project is graphically nice, systems are running well and as it's an early access stuff we may expect a great module. And campaigns, the editor engine is really cool, no doubt. Moving next. BMS is not only flying the F-16 and 15 now but a really cool thing. That fact that there is the whole Bibliothek) which is scary when you see it for the first time the project involves you to read it soon. I'm unable to list all things that I like in BMS. It's literally everything in this project I was inspired with. I even liked to move that cool cursor through the interface and listen to sounds that triggered passing keys. That cool ATC, bullseye, friends and foes AI, data preparation..! Ammmazing! Also BMS isn't like games or sims it's more like the government's project for training Air force pilots in pre task preparation, tactics, flying, interaction (yes, much more cooler than in DCS). That authentic graphics and interface.. Maybe you also watch that learning videos by different armies issued decades ago). I'm in love with those clips that you may see prior your campaigns in BMS. Despite that they have signs of propaganda. They are atmospheric. I'm a helicopter pilot and I'm not an English native but now I'm dived into BMS completely. All those letters that I typed patiently above have their purpose. I have a request for developers. If you have plans to reply to your community's requests to add candy graphics, change the interface, add hellos, simplify all. Please, at least keep an option to leave all as it is for users like me.
Same here, Not big fan of F-16 nor F-15C but really enjoying BMS Dynamic Campaign with ATC/AI and core game, In-depth simulation For your information next update 4.38 will be eye-candy graphic update and It will remove the terrible Fog Wall so I cant wait
@@leonelantoniodelgadomedina8675Nooo! Not the helos! I beg!))) Of course, I wish to see how guys develop their BMS in their cool style so to speak. I just wanted to say that I like what they did and to my mind the team do not need to compete with any project. They've created very inspiring thing and things around it, friendly community. Helicopters? Let it be!) Hope they are going to be well integrated as well.🤝
@@fafafafa-k8cGraphics was something that confused me at the beginning when I saw video of using some tactics in BMS. I already know what DCS is after all.But I liked how things was explained in that video so I decided to try the game. Moreover recognising that it won't be expensive. It was disappointing to see the numerous branches of that menu tree at the beginning. I understood that it's necessary to research manuals, videoinstructions. But diving little by little into it I forgot about first impression of graphics. Moreover it became an advantage as you launch a game, you are not forced to wait long loading, you concentrate your attention on mission settings, preparation, and you perform the mission. I'm not that guy who is building a cockpit at home. My choice is a laptop. Laptop which isn't at the top of the list. So it's very cool that anyone can use all that cool stuff in BMS not being a luxury or simcockpit lunatic fanatic. Although graphics is not good only in comparison with DCS doing which is a mistake I think. It's acceptable enough. However it's interesting to see BMS improved in graphics. Nice to know that the game is in evolution.
I tried both and I do believe they are two different games and mindset. The thing though is DCS can be better even with its current limitations. Just try the Liberation dynamic campaign and you will see how DCS is transformed. BMS is an air combat sim with F16, DCS is a combat airplanes sim focusing more on airplanes rather the combat nature of air warfare. I truly believe DCS can be like BMS if ED changes their mindset. I have high hopes that ED will release the dynamic campaign and ATC overhaul which will make it similar to BMS
I'm not sure I can recognise the characterisation of the DCS mindset of fast and easy. DCS is anything but fast and easy. There is simply nothing fast and easy about it. But liking the look of BMS and so thinking hard about coming back to it after many years away
On of the first interactions I get when someone asks how do I fly the F-16 is that the manuals are too long, videos are too long and chuck guides are great can I use them with BMS.
I loved Facon 4 but stopped playing because of the weapon bubble. Long range, stand-off weapons are pointless as they stop existing outside of the bubble. I love my cruise missiles
It seems fair to contrast BMS vs DCS F-16’s only. I heard no mention of the phenomenal rotor wing in DCS or WW2 era. And then of course, there’s still nothing like ending a long and successful mission with a 3-wire at the boat….
I play both and enjoy them both. Been flying sims since the 80s. I appreciate what we have today. Hope more Hi fidelity Sims pop up, love all of them! Heck I even play the old F-19 game of old… Flight Sims are special ❤
Yup I have 500 hours on BMS and Free Falcon from... (Holy shit I'm old) more than 10 years ago. I flew with the Freebirds VFW and missions with them. I fly DCS now, and the Viper in DCS doesn't feel... right... Looking back, the F-15 in BMS back then was just being introduced and it was more or less like a reskinned Falcon. I'm surprised that a lot has happened since then and that the F-15 is standing on its own. For the the life of me I can't find my DVD image of my Falcon 4.0 otherwise I'd try to install the modern version of BMS. With regards to the topic; Player/Pilot mindset is different between Sims is different. DCS eases you into it, while BMS feels like entering ground school then doing flight hours, which I did with the Freebirds VFW back in 2006-2008. Back then Discord didn't exist we used Teamspeak. 40 mins to 1 hour briefs and debriefs back then was all part of the fun.
It’s also important that no matter what game you play DCS or falcon BMS You are give yourself a pat on the back because you learned something super hard to my DCS friends try something new try falcon BMS and to my falcon BMS friends try something new try DCS it may not be up to your standards on your favourite aircraft but who knows? Maybe another one can catch your eye❤
I played F4 back when it came out with its infamous wall-of-Migs. Then I got into Allied Force, then BMS. DCS is not an instant action sim. It takes months of flying just to get good at flying one of their modules. I find that if I switch aircraft and then go back again, I'm almost at square one. DCS's biggest issue is that it is sterile unless you go online. Sure you can play the missions or campaigns, but they are canned. After a few flights you know where most things are going to occur. BMS by comparison, feels like being in a living breathing world. I have completed the Korean dynamic campaign on more than a few occasions (hint - you can move your units on the map like a wargame!). You spend more time in BMS getting intel and trying to predict what's likely to happen. As the war is dynamic, things don't always pan out the way you think they will. Plus when you are up, there is a real sense of a real air war going on around you. What helps in this regard are the AI radio comms. BMS blows DCS into the weeds in this regard. Even the tower procedures for approaching and landing are very immersive and the airports feel alive and teaming with life. Despite this I have been primarily playing DCS because it has VR and its implementation makes it very easy to use the in-cockpit switches. However, BMS recently got VR, which I do need to check out. If one can click around the cockpit in VR within BMS, I'm likely to go back and never return :p
I agree with some of your thoughts and disagree with many others. I am glad BMS is there and I've flown it many times, I do enjoy DCS better. I do think the dynamic campaign in BMS is outstanding, but at the end of the day, I will always go back to DCS. BMS is too limited in maps and aircraft, but sometimes that's good, but after awhile I feel the need for something else. I do think everyone has their own style of flying, and I hate to lump people into two different camps. I never thought of DCS as quick and easy, I feel it's complex and troublesome, and I've got many aircraft which I agree, too many to be proficient at.
I try not to get sucked into buying DCS planes, nearly did with the F4... Last two DCS videos I watched: someone struggling to get to grips with the F4 then someone complaining they were rusty with the Mig 21. Realistically, how many full fidelity planes can one person get to grips with before going insane?
BMS: Go online for breakfast, check the ATO, come up with a few targets and frag a tanker package if needed. In the evening, hop on TS and plan the flight together. Waypoints, roles, targets, loadouts, potential threats... Execute the mission as professionaly as possible, because you never know what you'll encounter. DCS: Enter targets from the F10 map, spam all available long range weapons and eject, because "flying home takes too much time." Alternatively: take an A-10 with all the weapons, fire one missile, get shot down by the SHORAD that's been painting you for the last 60 seconds and repeat. Yes, that's kinda extreme, but it's what stuck with me the most. I could always lead a flight in BMS, but in DCS I wouldn't know what to tell people, except "don't be stupid".
Hey AvP, I'm going to write my take in a bit long comment since you said you're interested in the end. I will back up you on some of them but I'll start with disagreeing few. (I'm waiting my friend for a CoD night so I got some time to kill 🤣) I think you're biased on this review but hit the correct points to be fair. 1- DCS players expect to be good at their airframe in a quick time claim for example, it's true, but not true for everyone. Same applies for BMS, and actually any other thing an individual can do in their free time. I've seen people that really believed they mastered F-16 with just 50 hours. I mean yes, without complete procedures with failures and lacking things like hung stores may push them to think like that but I also know people that just does CAP in BMS and claims they are "experienced" in F-16. We all know there is more to that. So this point depends on the player not the game/sim whatever you want to call it. 2- You said BMS flight model is better than DCS, as an engineer, I know few things about fluid mechanics, dynamics and aerodynamics, I have never flown the F-16 but since I love it too much I spent some serious time reviewing it's charts. Not just only in HAF NATOPS, also some CFD analysis. I also feel like I'm actually firing a missile or dropping a bomb in DCS, in BMS it feels like a PNG moving fast. According to my sincere belief DCS modules overall copies the exact results on the CFD, which once Nick Grey also said that's how the "full fidelity" modules are made. We'll get back to this "full fidelity" in a bit. A little extra to give credit the sound engineers in ED, I lived 19 years near an air base and time to time get close with it and it sure sounds like absolutely the closest you can hear. 3- You're also 'kinda' right about DCS having many aircrafts and they cost. Well yeah but you don't have to buy them all. There are people interested in F-14 for example and you can actually find some retired old Navy pilots enjoying their time in DCS F-14 and living their memories again. So does it really a downside? Okay I criticized enough. For backing you up, 1- My favorite aircraft is F-16. I dive very deep into it, and I'm so happy that we have BMS. The effort Benchmark team puts into F-16 systems, as you mentioned, is just unmatched. I've started BMS after I master the thing in DCS, I was still doing things like not closing canopy during JFS or doing after-start checks etc. but the idea of getting punished for not paying the attention this bird demands is just too fun for me! 2- I totally agree about the dynamism of BMS. I love DCS and all that but, forget about the money, waiting for a campaign to released for months? C'mon man... 3- About graphs, yeah obviously DCS is better but I also think BMS do not look terrible. Or that's just maybe I'm too much immersed to pay attention to the wear in cockpit... :P That pretty much sums it up for me, feel free to agree, disagree, block, report, spam, discuss or anything like that :D
@@kaan2866 Bias maybe but I do have experience in both. I fly the F-16 specifically and DCS does not do it for me when it comes to functionality. I have personally tried to create missions but it is too much manual manipulation for my taste. I spent more time creating missions than flying them. I did say these point apply for some but not all in the first bit of the video also everyone knows that everything cannot be covered in a video. 1- Remember I am talking about mindsets and the mind set in DCS is to be good at an aircraft quickly. Hence Chuck's Guides, Interactive Training Missions, 60 second videos and tutorials teaching how to use and not how it functions to develop a better understanding instead of just surface level. In BMS because of the available failures a deep understanding is needed increasing the learning curve. 2- Flight model is more accurate. Have you seen all of the documents explaining every detail that was put into the flight model? Even Mover made some comments about the flight model in a recent video. Having the feel of firing a missile is not necessary related to how increased the drag rate is. On another note being able to replace skill with notching everything is not favorable either. The lack of rudder authority was embarrassing with the video I made with the Knife Edge, as of now it is fixed. Full authority is still not there comparing with real life videos which I have created. The Sound is awesome I will say. As a flightline maintainer it is spot on however that does not replace other playability issues that many have with DCS. 3- Didn't say paying for modules was a downside. The downside is having modules that you don't use or is not developed to a subjective standard at the start. But that was not the scope of this video. When it comes to not having terrains and removing your ability to fly certain servers because you don't have the map. Again I only use the F-16 and DCS does not come close to what I want. Imo the F-16 in DCS is unplayable mostly due to how the RWR works. I am always trying to fly in DCS but I get disapointed and find something that degrades my experience everytime. Appriecate your response. There is no winning but opening minds to different and lesser known differences is what my goal was.
@@AviationPlus I feel you, after BMS it’s almost impossible for me too to get back into DCS viper and act it’s okay. But once again, yes I checked the BMS page and I’m not saying it’s not realistic or anything, acutally the modeld are very similar. And same Mover made videos for DCS as well saying close as it gets, for BMS as well. The notch is a topic on it’s own. Map stuff is also a thing you are right imo. It feels so limited. Buy I’d love to see & hear more about your RWR issue.
@@AviationPlus Oh I see now. Well accordingly to the HAF manuals it should give some sort of distance data but the RWR on HAF F-16s is AN/ALR-66 so I’m not sure if it’s same with AN/ALR-56. But I’m now curious about it 🤔
I have 3800h in Dcs. I play this game for fun. Fun only. In my First 50h I Fell in love with the Mission Editior, since then I Play most time PvE. Building myself a Little combat zone etc. With Friends its fun to Play online but (for me) its a Little Bit Boring because I Like dogfights and Most of the guys I Play with are bad. (Even random guys on the 1v1 Servers) Ive been in a Squad for a couple of weeks but the Realism was Boring. Ive Played Falcon BMS and this Game is to „realistic for me“ But its a very very good Simulator. For me: Falcon BMS>Realism Dcs world> Simulator with fun and fast playing
So I'm still new when it comes to the world of flight sims and DCS is my first, I want to learn BMS but like you said it takes time to learn and with me going to college and stuff, it's much more easier to hop into DCS. That being said I recognize DCS has some glaring issues, funny enough while graphics is DCS's biggest strength it's also a major weakness since even with beast of machines there are a lot of performance issues especially if you're a VR player.
I'd love to get into BMS, it hits all the things I want from a sim, but it's just hard to balance the time with work, life and family. Without dedicating days to learning and hard times to join the community fly-outs, it's a tough beast to get into and learn
This is a totally valid reason. However either way you are going to have to learn the aircraft to fly. If you are in a small group briefings aren't that long. Eventually when you fly briefing could be like 10 minutes.
Im not a zealot on any one game but ive enjoyed BMS since starting within the past month. I will say playong DCS and the F-16 there has cut down the learning curve quite a bit. The dynamic campaign is what's hooked me so far. Graphics arent THAT bad and they will improve shortly it seems.
I mostly fly DCS but Im a Falcon alumni from 3.0 onward. Tried BMS a few times but waiting on the new terrain engine and more developed F15C and a few other things. Im happy that BMS exists but DCS suits my style more at this point. Also VR in DCS is better. General variety also helps a lot. We are lucky to have the choice what sim to fire uo and also F16 is my fav jet. Also you forgot to mention that DCS has helos BMS does not.
I agree 💯 DCS is still way better in VR, until then I have to struggle with DCS bugs but once BMS figures out VR graphics, it is going to create big pressure on ED for sure
Honestly, I play both in a regular basis. DCS is both for flying quickly when I'm having a hard week, as its gameplay is as you said, hop in and start shooting; also, I play with a DCS squadron, and it's a ton of fun. BMS is amazing, I absolutely love it and have a good time every single time I play it, but it requires more time overall and, sometimes, I don't have it. You can really find the place for both in your gameplays. But, I have a lot of critics for ED and DCS, it's WAY behind BMS's quality.
Spot on i normally fly dcs if i want quick blast on multiplayer server. But i find game boring thier is no real single player like BMS, i have many modules something i feel like i wasterd my money 😢
I started to care less about system realism, because I will never be able to tell the difference. Since I 'm just a fan. Best I can hope for is graphics and physics.
I agree, bms is superior to dcs. In the F-16 and F-15C. It seems you’ve only experienced public servers which in my opinion are not what dcs is meant to be, and the difference in skill is too large to make public servers enjoyable (ex growling sidewinder 4ya etc) there are a lot of squadrons and communities who use the variety of aircraft that DCS includes perfectly, making large coordinated packages in engaging lore, detailed briefings, and skilled pilots willing to teach and help newer players. With checkrides,SOPs and training missions.Of course this is a fraction of the dcs population but these communities do what dcs is meant to do, diverse large strike packages that make it feel like you’re in a real combined task force. That’s my opinion having played both. I’ll always take a bms viper over a dcs viper but it’s how different airframes work together in order to complete a mission that does it for me, even though I only fly the viper and tomcat, I love it. Falcon bms is another world, while more realistic I think missions become very repetitive as there aren’t many things to swap mission to mission. The dynamic campaign is amazing though.
I am planning on starting either BMS or DCS in the near future,the only previous flight sims i have ever tried were war thunder,flightgear and flight simulator X.I am eager to learn both sims and be a serious player but at the same time i don't wanna make the sim my life or pretend to be a real pilot like some people do.According to that can someone suggest me which sim would be possibly more close to my playstyle?
DCS but if you dont wanna waste ur money and time like I did then FalconBMS You can still play the game casually without pretinding to be a pylote or some shit
Sounds more like the Mindset is exactly the same if you ask me. but at this point, unless you're an actual F-16 pilot I'm not sure I'd be able to say which is more realistic than the other. at this point the DCS F-16 keeps getting minor updates and changes all the time to tweak the flight-model. but I'd say the majority (actually around 70%) of the DCS playerbase flies singleplayer. but I will agree that things get a bit stale. Though saying that DCS is a game that you can learn to use a Jet in an hour is VERY wrong. 1 month is more accurate :P
DCS can provide much more than quick action. It can offer deep, immersive scenarios in a much larger variety of aircraft than BMS can. Yet there is no denying that as the current and currently funded simulator, it is behind in a number of ways. While the average playerbase opinions may be different between the two, I don't think either are completely homogeneous. I don't fly DCS primarily as an action shooter, though it can fulfill that role. A large portion of any divide will also come from the fact that DCS is better marketed and easier to find so players will usually come across DCS before BMS.
When it comes to MP If everyone is experienced a briefing can be a solid 10 minutes depending on the experience level and the number of players in the mission. But no there is not a server listing with thousands of players playing.
Now. When BMS first came out way back in the day I loved it. Since then DCS over a decade later came out and offered so much more, all be it the dynamic campaign model needs to catch up with BMS. I like the sensation of flying in VR DCS, but I also like variety. I have repurchased BMS via Steam. I am a simple sole though. Can someone please provision me with a step by step guide in how to bring BMS up to the latest standard on my PC? So I can then have a chance to compare the modern BMS to the current DCS? I would really appreciate a step by step guide.
They both serve nicely for their intended purposes. Anyone that feels the need to argue over it is still young and stupid enough to think other people not sharing their opinion matters. Simple as that. Enjoy whichever you like.
i play dcs for years and buy lot of modules that kept me going in game, but while im starting with bms when i buy vr and try it because of performance i was amazed even when a i missing hands in game and must use mouse even graphic is not good as dcs now i play mostly bms a im to dcs put hundreds of euros , but ok i love f4/f14/f15/f18/mirage .. some maps, ..I think if I had known earlier about bms I will save a lot of money ..
I've got both including MSFS, due to work it's hard to get on and play. One thing I'd like to know about BMS, are there "training range" missions or ones you can make yourself? Kind of similar to making a training range on the Nevada map in DCS.
In the Tactical Engagement you can create any mission you want. Also there are training missions with different scenarios that you can practice in. There are ranges with tank and aircraft shells to blow up. There are even smoke bombs to see the accuracy of your weapons.
Even the FPS drop, during a landing in DCS in 05:21 is enough to say that does it and delete DCS. If I cannot have the joy to feel every moment of the viper during a landing after a successful mission, why would I waste time with it?
It is not even the performance. It is the fundamental state of the aircraft that makes it difficult to enjoy. If one has never experienced BMS then it is a complete unknown to them making them unware of its potential.
I used to play Flanker2.5, then LOMAC/LOFC then DCS Ka50, and that's it, not even went to A10C somehow. I was playing F4AF for that time but not really into it, then OpenFalcon, Then now BMS. Oh, my main time is on FS9/P3D and XPlane all along, well, actually my main time and money is now on CAE's simulator in my company, as an instructor .... I have been thinking going back to DCS for few years but never pulled the trigger, I wasn't able to launch old LOFC and DCS Ka50 copy due to the DMC is totally outdated and refuse to run on my current system.... as for the current DCS.... yeah, maybe I'll try it for free the next falcon weekend.....wondered that for few years...... Last year I got a "de-DMCed" copy of LOFC2 and finally get it running.... some good memories flashback... but then I got VR, I really can't go back to dogfight with TrackIR anymore... totally Spacial disorientation. And yet I haven't download and try the free DCS.... somehow the BMS just... works... why bother....
You made a comment that DCS is a game you can learn to fly in a short amount of time and get started within a day. The only place that would possibly be close to true are the Flaming Cliffs 3 planes which are dumbed down compared to major modules like the F-16. I have played falcon since the old 286 Days with Falcon AT (that was released in 1988 BTW), Falcon 3.0, Falcon 4.0 and now DCS. The F-16 has a 500+ page manual and also required plenty of time in the training missions as well as watching videos for hours. If you started out with BMS and had pre-existing knowledge, then learning DCS I imagine could have been far simpler but someone who played DCS first I disagree completely with your assertion you can start from scratch in DCS and have it all down within a day. This is coming from someone who's been flying flight simulators since the 80's as Falcon AT was released in 1988. Now keep in mind I'm not just doing air to air. I spent a lot of time learning how all the different air to ground weapons work in all their different modes as well so I could fly and successfully complete all the different missions/compaigns often switching from attacking ground targets to having to defend against an air threat immediately.
To be honest I don’t really get this video, I’m looking to get into Flight Sims soon and I think I’m going to go with DCS, looks amazing and by the sounds of it is way more beginner friendly. That being said I don’t understand this whole mindset thing nobody is spending 80 dollars on a full fidelity F-18 expecting to jump straight in for some instant action, that’s what War Thunder is for. I can’t speak from personal experience but I have done some looking around on TH-cam and what not and it looks to me like there are plenty of very serious DCS players who are completing custom made missions with briefings, objectives and roles. This video seems a little sneery and wasn’t that helpful to someone looking to compare the two.
@@jonoleech7832 Comparison of mind sets not games. I don't understand why no one understands that. These two games are not compatible. It can be said they have two different purposes.
The videos are needed when it comes to knowing the difference between the two. We all know that is on everyone's mind and something that is always asked. Introducing that the mindsets are different is a good way to explain what the differences are regardless of graphics. You and me both know the next burning question is "Can learning the DCS F-16 help me with BMS" would rather want a video to link people to then have to explain every time it is asked.
@@AviationPlus I totally get you, but others might make this comment section a debate competition 😂. Anyway keep up the good work! I always send your videos to my beginner friends 😉
Graphics aren't as big an issue. I want as close to realistic as possible that would be required by me, the pilot, if I were operating the aircraft in real life. To include all switches, controls, run-ups, etc.
The one thing i find the most annoying from both sides, is the superiority they feel. they are always bickering back and fourth on who plays the better sim. when will the players learn to appreciate both? Both games have their ups and downs, which make them both worth it to play. the best game out the 2 of them is the one you like the most. the fights and insults just make it a toxic atmosphere which is not needed. just have fun
Today's polarization is ridiculously exaggerated on all social media platforms, ppl are argueing even when they agree on the same thing like an old married couple on a city park bench where one says it's a bit chilly today, and the deaf geezer replies with yeah it's a bit windy today, then the old lady replies, I didn'y say you were windy dead, I said it's a bit chilly. Then he yells IF YOU DONT LIKE ME BEING WINDY THEN DONT FEED ME CHILLIES cunt. And the beautiful morning of two people who love eachother all of their lives was ruined over nothing. -- To their defence the polarisation on social media is deliberate, the algorithms search for possible conversations that elicit confrontational reactions to make it go viral, viral content is digital gold. We are herded like cattle by AI and similar algorithms or agents to in turn milk sponsor "likes", which can translate to real $$$ bank numbers.
I disagree with your views on DCS. People don't expect to learn an aircraft quickly in DCS, only a newb would expect that. People don't expect to get to flying and start shooting either. Most people are well aware that they could be on a mission with their buddy and after planning, detailing waypoints, choosing ammunitions and taking off and flying for 45 minutes to a target destination just get shot down by a missile or something because they weren't paying attention of forgot to turn something on. It happens and then it's back to square one. And btw the training missions in DCS are really bad, so bad, that I go to youtube for training.
PVP is a big reason some people stick to DCS (like me). With the amount of planes in the game "true" red/blue pvp is possible while in BMS it's not really a thing.
Hello geeat video, i have been thinking of picking up bms. I am a DCS person. Is it worth it. And would there be a learning curve or are the f 16 functions the same. I been playing the f 16 dcs for about 3 yrs.
It is worth it but if you can't accept the graphics then don't even bother. Functions are similar but the UI is different along with the multiplayer process.
@AviationPlus lol I feel like most games these days are not that graphically great. I think I can deal with that, Thank you. I followed your videos and now I have Falcon Bms. Thanks again sir, for the tip and finally pushing me to get it.
Kiddo, you simply threw all your frustrations into this video and think that all the other players are like you... The funny thing is how there are BMS fanboys who keep making comparisons with DCS, while people who play DCS don't even care about BMS. I think it's interesting to have options, the problem is the frustrated fanbase.
@@AviationPlus Your answer only proved that you are a frustrated fanboy, there are hundreds of channels focused on realism and immersion within DCS, the beautiful graphics are a bonus. If you are going to do the realistic coldstar procedure on the Hornet, Phantom or Mirage 2000 it will take you more than half an hour in DCS, there is no such nonsense as those who play DCS like instant action. And finally, the money is my spending on the game I want.
For F-16 is not any sims more depth as BMS. I never see in any sims so good ATC as in BMS. If I wish something is cockpit interuior in BMS to look as in DCS, that is my single wish.
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Both games are great but having the same mindset in both doesn't always work out.
It would be great if BMS also would have helis. The campaign enviroment so much better in BMS for chopper missions...
@@tamasratkai1130 Every time I hear this, I'm reminded of the many posts on dcs venues complaining about helo problems in dcs. AAA, laser guided shots, ak-47 single bullet taking them out, etc. 🙃
1000%
@@mnmailman3489I still waiting for Microprose's Apache sim... In the 3rd year after the lone teasing picture... The established sims need more competition.
@@tamasratkai1130 True. Unfortunately, the days of any somewhat meaningful amount of flight sim competition is long gone and never to return. No one is interested in developing them for various reasons.
Important thing is there's room for both.
Also, I disagree that DCS players want 'instant action'. The majority are pretty serious about learning the ins and outs of each aircraft. Sure, some do want that. But I don't think DCS is very friendly to those types of players. The learning curve is steep.
Not compared to BMS though
It's steep for the average person like someone with no experience with simulations whatsoever
@@RikkiSan1 Realy? Learning to fly a beginner friendly fly-by-wire aircraft like the F-16 is a challenge for you? The F-16 is by far one of the easiest aircraft to learn ever (maybe besides the Hornet) and you seriously want to claim BMS has a steep learning curve? I want some of what you´ve been smokin´...Try the F-14 Tomcat, Phantom or the Apache. But if the F-16 is already a challenge for you, well....
@@r4dio4ctiv3man9 There's a HUGE difference between learning to 'fly' the plane and learning to use it to the point where you can be useful as part of a BMS campaign.
Of course, in DCS it usually suffices to know how to kinda move your joystick about, set Master Arm to ON, and then go into A-A mode before joining a random Air Quake server.
@@VenomShadows305 Well, you also need to know the limits of your radar wich is not necessary in BMS as BMS does not have a radar logic, but is just doing some voodoo magic to calculate what should be on the scope. You should also be familiar with the effect of dense air in order to reduce the enemies missile range, wich is also unimportant in BMS, as BMS does not have a proper physics engine.
Your fake arguement about the BMS campaign is as fake as your wifes orgasm. I do Falcon since 3.0 and i very much know the campaign. There is not realy something special in learning how to be effective, that is just bs. The sorties in the BMS campaign are generated, you can just set wich type of missions should be prefered. Jump into the sortie, follow mission objectives and react to some unexpected threats from time to time. Your desperate try to make the BMS campaign look as if it is something complicated to be effective in, may work with someone who does not know the BMS campaign, but for me it is just ridicolous. The dynamic campaign is all BMS have and it is not realy something that makes it a better sim. Better campaign, yes. Better sim is the one with proper sensor logic, proper physics, beeing able to simulate both, helicopters and fixed wing and a larger variety of aircraft. Learning to fly and operate the Apache only is way more complex and difficult than learning BMS as a whole. And in BMS you will never be able to learn how to operate as a team in a 2 seat aircraft, wich is a complete different league of operating an aircraft.
Like BMS, DCS is evolving all the time and since the multithread update and the resulting headroom in CPU power, ED was able to use a separate thread for the AI wich is a massive game changer. The AI has made enormous progress and is still far from beeing finished. Same for the ATC and the DC. DCS has always delivered what was promised, although it took always longer thasn expected. Rewriting the engine to make it multithread capable is the best example. Give DCS 2 or 3 more years and there is nothing left Falcon is doing better or even on par. Falcon will always be single thread and therefore limited in physics, AI, fake sensors and everything else that needs CPU power to the point it has already achieved.
I played Falcon 4 way back when I was young, tinkered with the Dynamic Campaign for countless hours. Good times. These days I play DCS with a VR headset. Just recently installed BMS and boom, it hits hard. Performance in VR is butter smooth. All the old memories come rushing back. Its like a long lost friend suddenly showing up and giving you a warm hug. All the keybindings are automatically applied so I had zero problems transitioning.
In VR, it doesn't look much different, as DCS isn't so great in VR either (if you want reasonable performance). For the F-16, BMS in unparalelled...I've seen things happen in BMS that I've never had in DCS. The RWR sings in BMS. The 20 year old Dynamic Campaign engine beats DCS even today. But for other planes, DCS takes the cake. The Phantom is Phenomenal, and for naval ops DCS is king right now. And while I'm guilty of airquaking sometimes, not all DCS players are airquakers. Many do complex missions seriously, and the best part of it is, we can have proper PVP milsim red vs blue with a variety of airframes, even down to flyable SAR helos.
So yeah, each has it strengths. We just can't generalize the comunities into stereotypes. I think these two sims can coexist for the same community really.
Great comment. I just got into DCS a few months ago, and I haven't tried BMS yet, but I'm coming from the racing side of simulator obsessions where I have much more experience. It's funny because the same sort of comparisons and generalizations are made with racing sims. Which is the most realistic? Which does X or Y best? Which has the best graphics, physics, feedback, etc.? People think they want one "king of it all" sim, and ideally that would be great, but in reality, competition in the market is a good for everyone.
@@angryginger791 thanks for your insight from the racing sim community. I do think of DCS and BMS as tools in our workshops, each tool may do different things. If one can invest into getting into DCS, it won't hurt to add BMS to your toolkit (price is negligible compared to DCS). In fact, BMS currently has the only full-fidelity F-15C, while the one in DCS is low-fidelity. But for PVP milsim against player controlled MiGs and Flankers, DCS is the way to go. So both these tools can coexist for the same flightsim community I think.
hello. I am from south Korean.
in my opinion ,bms is better than dcs.
When comparing two existing games, you have to think about which game is better overall.
The person who made this video has played both and gives his opinion.
I have played both and give my opinion.
It is a DCS without dynamic campaigns. Dynamic campaigns simulate with dynamic and large-scale wars.
Dynamic campaign is very important things.
I like BMS better because DCS does not have dynamic campaigns.
I played dcs for almost 10 years but when i changed to VR, DCS has performance issues even when i changed to a new rig. Now im starting with BMS in the performance is outstanding. Much more fun.
Probably not set up right then I would guess. I am playing with almost maxed out settings on a 5 year old rig with locked FPS at 72 on a Quest 3. Never any issues.
@@chrmez 72 isn't do able for me. I'm also playing on a quest 3 (soon switching to pimax crystal) I maxed out resolution on 1.5 on 90hz. And use Super sampling otherwise I think it looks to blurry. With those settings I managed to maintain 90 fps but still micro stuttering when coming close to ground. It's annoying. I'm tweaking dcs for months now. Glad I switched over to BMS.
@@tarnlicht3657 How is flying the Apache in BMS? Any fun?
@@r4dio4ctiv3man9 only fly f16
@@r4dio4ctiv3man9 thats the difference between BMS pilots and DCS players.... We respect you game, you laught to our sim.... And thats the reason why you never will be a pilot 😊
BMS just works! No game braking bugs, no fps bugs, no mayor bugs in general. No drama, no anti consumer practices, no false promises etc. It's plug & play all the way
Rubbish graphics in BMS. Rubbish
@@DavidMegaw Well then it's not for you. Easy decision.
BMS is bugged in its way.
@@DavidMegaw Some of us play FLIGHT SIM. Some of you just want to look at trees and grass on the ground. Should play GTA 5
@@oporimas much as I love BMS, ffs just render gun impacts for more than 2KM, I can't even tell if I hit ground targets on that game.
I love BMS (Im from Falcon 3.0 days) and just started DCS and love the F/A-18C. I feel like i have best of both worlds as i can do carrier stuff on DCS. All good. Challenge to know and be proficient in BMS...just the IFF stuff has so many pages to learn! Very good simulator. And BMS runs nicely with an average machine. Graphics arent bad...I'd take it for the performance it gives. Good video.
After the Razbam debacle I started flying bms again. Now I'm completely hooked! Great depth and performance. Just the ATC is worth it! So much more immersive.
What's Rasbam got to do with it?
@@DavidMegaw ED not paying Razbam and I bought the SE which will never be finished now. So ED is screwing their customers.
@user-tc6kf3we2p the F15E and other Razbam moduals are now longer getting updates because of Razbam-ED dispute. For many, this has turned them off DCS on the whole.
@@DavidMegaw I think my reply got deleted? DCS is screwing their customers by not paying RAZBAM for their work and now the Strike Eagle is likely forever incomplete.
@@DavidMegaw they are one of the most prolific third party aircraft module developers for DCS, responsible for Strike Eagle, Mirage 2K, Harrier, and MiG 19. They were also working on a much-anticipated MiG-23. the F-15E was recently released and is unfinished, and the older aircraft could be rendered unflyable in future DCS versions due to bugs. People are also worried a similar issue may affect other third party developers
As someone who played both and played civilian sims, I think BMS is for those who enjoy the military environment simulation. Just like those who enjoy virtual airlines on civilian sims.
DCS is better for those who enjoy military planes, and not that much the military "roleplay", or don't have the free time required for a military sim
Informative video. I played with the idea to fly BMS, but i just lack the time, and even in DCS after 1000's of hours i am moving back to FC3 style aircraft more and more. I think the ability to learn and get going "quick" is a strong suit of DCS for sure with lots of freedom.
The biggest issue is that, as you mention WT and MFS is that people love to be polarised as hell for whatever reason. They all can, and should, coexist and one can enjoy more than 1 of these games.
I mean, one can enjoy doing a perfect Case 3 at night in a storm in a Tomcat on DCS and then jump off and fire of Project Wingman or Ace Combat after, because why not.
I agree the BMS / DCS mindset is different I play both, but I started out with Falcon 4 way back when. I am just a single mission maker / player. I still like the way you can set up a flight package with an ECM jammer SEAD STRIKE, along with an E2C AWACs in BMS. I think the biggest plus for BMS is the fact that they have an actual community, and I am great full for it. I was never accepted into the DCS world, and that is ok as I was lucky enough to serve in naval aviation back in the day. I can now flight sim new and old planes.
I like your videos, recently watched some of your older BMS content.
@@FalconAC Thanks for watching them Falcon. I have nothing but good things to say about BMS.
@@callsignnictmere465 I hadn't thought of trying carrier landings in BMS until watching F-18 video.
BMS clicks more to me, maybe because I started out with games like IL2 1946 and Wings over Europe/Vietnam, where you had some sort of semi dynamics campaigns, different types of missions, pilot ranks and their respective roles in missions. DCS and before that, Lockon series were more of a aircraft simulator
1:52 No, I think this part is wrong. The full fidelity modules can take weeks, if not months to master. If you are talking about gameplay, well that's another story. People, if you don't play DCS and expect to get up and going in a single day, try the Mig 21 and discover this is not possible. I play BMS and DCS for very different reasons, none that are represented in this video, it's just preference and opinions as always.
@@vimfuego8827 Remember I said expect to learn quick not saying that it is quick. This video is about mindsets.
@@AviationPlus this video is more about your mindset about other people, that supposed to be shared love for avia/mil-sims with, instead of spilling hate on, literally
@@AviationPlus The mindset is absolutely different. Not a single video of the DCS community hating on BMS, but a lot of from the BMS community doing so about DCS. That is very telling about the mindset of the BMS community. I do various simulators (DCS, BMS, iRacing, ACC, AMS2 etc.) and the BMS community is by far the most arrogant of all.
@@r4dio4ctiv3man9 Well nothing is made up and comes from somewhere with truth to it. There are plenty of DCS players that dismiss BMS simply because of graphics very telling of the mindset of the DCS community.
@@AviationPlus And you are so pissed about some people dismissing BMS, that you had to make a video about it? Or what exactly is the reason for this video? Or all your other hate videos about DCS? This realy adds to the fact that the BMS community is one of the most arrogant of the complete PC game genre, with your channel representing this mindset realy accurate. One of the reasons i´m doing BMS singleplayer only. The community is just full of arrogant wannabe elite simmers, beeing totally helpless as soon as they don´t have a fly-by-wire beginner aircraft like the F-16. BMS simulates one of the easiest aircraft to learn ever and still people claim to be the "real" simmers.
I don´t give a sh*t about graphics (although they highly add to the immersion in VR), but i want proper simulated sensors and physics. And this is were BMS is just a bottom feeder. Air thickness isn´t simulated and the radar is doing some voodoo magic to calculate if your radar should see the bandit or not. In DCS, there is a proper radar logic actually scanning the area in front of your aircraft. I recently tried to find a parked aircraft on the ground with radar ground mapping image with BMS. No joy, as BMS just displays a pre-saved map on the scope. BMS simulates campaign, DCS simulates aircraft.
here's my take and personal opinion: while i adore both sims for their fidelity I love BMS more because DCS has become less of a simulator and more of a 'find the best aircraft that has the best weapons and own the entire lobby' kind of thing these days while BMS is a real 'work with what you get' kinda sim. Sure you can still change the loadouts but in BMS it doesn't matter if you have the best armament if you can't use what you are already given.
@@Duvstep910 DCS doesn't have SDBs for the Viper still...
Both are fantastic games. In DCS, hard core rotor head. BMS a fricking viper campaigns and yes mindset is very different! Great video! Also, online with both is the best experience I have found!
I've seriously began to realize that no matter which sim people like people are gonna get flustered and circle the wagons think I'm just gonna keep my head down xD
Got the Viper in DCS, loved it, downloaded BMS and flew for a bit, loved it even more. But Im still learning all the systems and DCS feels easier to setup training missions to learn things like tanking and IFR so thats where Im spending more time. But Im still looking forward to trying the dynamic campaign in BMS. If you like flying the F16 the 2 can complement each other. The systems in the BMS viper are also way less buggy at the moment.
Edit: One of my neighbors used to work with the Microprose guys
Last time I played BMS, it had a bunch of training missions and the manual contained a walkthrough for all of them. This made learning individual systems pretty easy.
I feel like the issue you have, is that you've only experienced growling sidewinder servers, and have converced with people in the ED general chat.
I have absolutely no clue how you can be so wrong about the mindset of DCS players otherwise.
Basically everything you praise about BMS, having 1 life missions etc i do weekly in DCS.
You just have to join the right community, there are plenty of groups around.
BMS and DCS are both nice, but lets not pretend that 1 is the elite and the other is somehow a airquacke sim, because personally i have never experienced this in the 6 plus years i fly DCS.
The only real thing i'd say BMS has over DCS is the dynamic campaign, which is the main attraction point.
But again, i'd advise to broathen your horizon a bit, meet some other people then the people you've been convercing with.
This doesn't change the position the F-16 is when it comes to systematic quality. I have been to large missions and after I am disappointed.
Agree
he is only hating on DCS, his entire video is BSM is superior and his answer resumes it, leave the airsoft tacticool bros be xD
Been a long time DCS player since 2017 and started BMS a couple months ago and I can’t go back to DCS. Planning and flying missions actual feel like I’m contributing to a larger effort. Plus the performance is great considering all the ground units and air units.
The only thing I miss is flying helicopters like AH64.
can we just merged Squad, BMS, Command Modern Operations, Arma, and Silent Depth into one Combined Arm Simulator game?
That'd be lovely, sad it's only an utopia in our daydreams :(
Everyone working together to make the best damn flight sim. I wish.
You hit the nail on the head with the comparison of the Viper between DCS and BMS. I flew BMS from way back when Falcon 4.0 first released so BMS is in my heart for a F-16 SIM. When I picked up the DCS Viper, it still felt more like an arcade game when it didn't have the capabilities I was used to with BMS. I still love to fly both, but the dynamic campaign with BMS can't be beat (I'm a single player type). I do love the ease with which I can immerse in DCS with VR. Now that BMS has VR, it IS the more complete SIM.
BMS has soul and makes you feel like you're part of something big. Comms alone are more enjoyable than the entire DCS experience for me.
That said, I've been with DCS since the Russian Black Shark release, and played LOMAC and Flanker before that. I like Eagle Dynamics but BMS is always more enjoyable and only getting better. As for the community, it's just more mature. I don't know why people think we're snobby. There was a lot of infighting between projects (OpenFalcon, FreeFalcon etc) but overall I find we're less toxic than the DCS crowd.
You're not less toxic than the DCS crowd, you're less toxic towards each other, but you're extremely hostile to everyone outside of the BMS community. Just scroll through this comment section. Bashing DCS players won't convince them to come over. I've seen shit goes as far as DCS players coming to BMS, asking about stuff that was different w/r to F-16 modelling between DCS in BMS and get called an "ED spy". Also any even slightest criticism is disregarded - to the point that in those rare cases where DCS does in fact do something more realistically, the BMS crowd will instead call it broken or unrealistic (like the whole "splash damage" debacle - some bombs in BMS have yield of small nuclear weapons, yet people use that as a benchmark for other sims)
@@delayed_control Not trying to bring them over just letting them know if they do leave the DCS mindset at the door. Also one of many first questions I get from them is "Is there a mod to make graphics better"
@@delayed_controlkinda feel like the comments didn’t pass the vibe check. Pretty new overall and chasing that semblance of brotherhood with people who are willing to teach. DCS crowd hasn’t been too helpful in my travels and I’m starting to consider BMS and other options.
@AviationPlus graphics help immersion
Sims are supposed to be immersive
I don't see why that's such a taboo point
But you can gtfo with that "leave DCS at the door"
Yall are seriously toxic, and cultist over a piece of software. You arnt real pilots
My experiences with the Falcon fans is exactly what that guy said.
Easily those most toxic sim gamers out there.
I don't even play MP. I don't even ask Falcon be like DCS
I enjoy both. But for some reason you Falcon fans absolutely seeth and mald and fume at somebody simply enjoying DCS and minding their own business
Seriously. A common thing I see on Falcon TH-cam videos and reddit posts is constant "DCS DOESNT HAVE THIS"
WHEN NOBODY
NOT A SINGLE SOUL
MENTIONED DCS
@@mailman35419 Wow hit a nerve. Simulation is nothing without mimicking real life physics and symptomatic workings of avionics. Without accuracy graphics mean nothing.
I am a long time DCS player and I have to say that BMS is much friendlier when it comes to time management, the fact that I can choose cold, runway or airstart in each mission saves a lot of time and gives me the option.
Fair comments Prime!
I do a similar amount of both and BMS is good when I have the time to focus on the mission and my strategy. DCS rarely feels like I need to..
Very well said. I will say running a Dynamic Campaign in BMS just on Day 3/ mission 10 cooperative multiplayer , has been more rewarding than anything in DCS maybe say a paid campaign coming close, however the paid campaigns in DCS are still not online cooperative without modifying.
What a great video (as always), nice summarization and well put together comparison. Something i would add regarding DCS, on top of money for modules and demanding graphs (expensive pc required) due to poor optimization, is the ridiculous amount of hard disk drive required. As a former DCS videographer, i remember how modules, mods, maps, liveries etc... took a well over 1TB of disk space, nuts. BMS is fantastic for all the reasons you mentioned and i really like how it quickly filters out "bad" or "weird" players that lack patience and/or manners. Everytime i have prompted a new player towards the BMS manuals i never heard back from them again :P
Anyways, Keep up the good work man! Cheers
Also the performance, holy cow the perfomance of BMS is amazing, I don't need several graphic presets like I do in the DCS when flying in the VR.
Yes, the graphic is dated in the BMS but I don't think many people will notice this while you are dropping bomb or dog fighting.
Depending on what you are after. As someone who makes youtube vidoes. The graphics of DCS is a major selling point. You got big youtube channels that make enough money for the content creators to have it as their main income.
And on a personal level when flying in VR, bad graphics can pull you out of the immersion. Especially the ground graphics. Fine if dropping bombs at 25 000 feet. Not so nice if if going in low with Mavs or guns.
I'm just dipping my toes in BMS, I had hoped it would have the classic block 10/15 A models. But doesn't appear to have those. It has a block 15, but updated versions. That can use AIM120 etc.
I got into DCS because of the helos in VR, but actually did try BMS at some point. I felt at time right away in the F16, but the variety of airframes is what brings me back to DCS.
Is it the variety of airframes or the fact that you spent money on those aircraft and feel obligated to use them bring you back to DCS?
@@AviationPlus good question, I guess sorta both. Once I finished the individual campaigns that shipped with them, the planes are amortized for me. This would be the 'obligation' part. However, I enjoy many of them past that point in online game play, which is what brings me back to DCS without feeling obliged anymore. I guess for the price of the average DCS module, I expect 20-30 hours of gameplay, sort of what you expect from a FPS game. Cheaper, but often done after 10-15 hours. BMS would be unbeatable according to this metric. You get the Falcon collection from GoG for 10 bucks, download BMS update and it would be written off after 2-3 hours ;-) Having said that, I uninstall most games after I finished the main story and move on. That seems not to be the case for DCS for me. But as hinted above, it is the helos that attract me most about DCS.
Man… I’ve been flying DCS since 2010, when I got on black shark and A10… I never tried BMS. I was always intrigued by it, but by the time I got heavily into sims in 2016 and I started VR, I knew I could never go back to 2d. When BMS got VR support I officially took a look at it, but not until a few days ago did I really give it the honest old college try, and…
I am completely floored at how far ahead of dcs BMS is… frankly it’s embarassing. It upsets me because I’m a hog driver at heart, but BMS is just.. sigh.
I need some time to think 😂
I appreciate the graphics of BMS, they take me back to a simpler time and I can run BMS on any machine I own; old and new.
As time goes on graphics will improve.
My thoughts (as I fly both) - BMS is far more satisfying for F-16 simulation, the F-15C is coming along really well, and is a joy.
I regard DCS as a gateway to BMS with the F-15C, F-15E and F-16C modules, and it gives me the Mirage F-1 and Mirage 2000 which I fly a *lot* - so there's no disappointment, and the recent FC-4 module (for cheap) has enhanced the enjoyment.
The Spitfire in DCS is another enjoyable component, though I do have IL-2 Bodenplatte (spiritual successor to Janes WWII Fighters) as well, which rounds out the modern military sims regularly flown.
You should keep an eye on Cliffs of Dover blitz. It is almost a ww2 version of Falcon BMS.
It's been improved by a small team working mostly for peanuts. It's slow going, but they are adding VR and graphics updates. Pluss have a decade worth of planed expansion packs. This year they'll add the first flyable B17 in a ww2 sim in over a decade. It's more realistic than IL2, har fae better terrain graphics than IL2. Has the best ww2 damage modeling. Over 100 aircraft and aircraft models to fly(they have like 20 different types of Hurricanes, Spitfires, and 109s) I'm beta testing the vr/visual update and once that is fully released. I probably won't fly DCS WW2 or IL much.
I will play the hell out of the F6F Hellcat in DCS whenever it finally comes out.
Great comparison. I fly both as well but only the F16 in DCS. It’s pretty and sounds cool! Getting back into BMS as I left the sim when RP, E Razor, FreeFalcon... existed and got tired of running multiple copies and endless patching just to fly with friends. I’m happy that It’s only BMS now and patching is one click now. Remember when we had to do constant clean installs? ....the good old days.
Great video and I have played both. Now I belong to a group who runs min 3 servers 24/7 with many individual missions. The big difference for me is DCS requires it's customers to make it entertaining and provide missions and content. Most of us to fly any of the campaigns. BMS dynamic mission generation is fantastic. I but many modules in DCS however this is to support the developers. I fly one aircraft the F16. My comment is aren't we lucky we have choices. I agree everyone wants something slightly different from a sim. Great content thank you
My favorite plane is F-14, but that's no excuse not to learn/play F-16 in BMS.
I completely agree with what you said in the video. As for single player, DCS feels like a constraint of triggering scripted things with predetermined outcomes.
Even if DCS mission creators strive for realism, that's the limit of the DCS game engine.
On the other hand, BMS has a more alive world even in single player.
Also, core features on DCS are quite inferior to BMS. Radios in DCS do not behave like an actual radio without SRS. some radio responses are inaccurate, tanker drogues behave very sloppy comparing to BMS (YES. BMS has much better physics in AAR drogue than DCS'). Having a hope of these things be fixed any time soon is waste of time because adding aircrafts is generates more money.
I still love to play DCS in naval operations. It's a unique experience and carrier flight deck crew is immersive, but in terms of a flight simulator, those stuffs are just an eye candy. If my favorite were F-16, I'd just stick with BMS.
I've just started playing BMS again after a few years and I had absolutely no idea how to do anything for a few days, apart from the basics of taking off, flying and landing! A really steep learning curve. Just about got the hang of the COMMS and AA radar dogfighting again.
I disagree with the assessment of the DCS community. The DCS community is one of button-pushers rather than military simmers. They want to spend weeks doing cold starts and practicing simple sandbox scenarios. Most of them get upset if you decide to use the autostart function to not waste time on turning on the plane every time.
When they get to a more complex environment they absolutely panic because it's not the turkey shoot of air to ground or the glorified team deathmatch that is pvp air to air. There's many videos on this platform of people gloating about taking down serious SAM threats with just a single plane, because that SAM is not part of any IADS, it's conveniently placed near terrain features that make the approach safe, and it emits like a mofo even when there's nothing in the vicinity of it.
Enigma said it well in one of his videos: The DCS' Player Loop is one of waiting for a module to come out, learn to push all buttons for a month, then waiting for the next module to come out and repeat the process again.
I am new to flight sims and started with DCS. The tutorials are great and really allowed me to make sense of a modern cockpit. I found BMS a few weeks later and set it up after buying Falcon 4.0 for like 6 bucks. I'm pretty much dedicating all my time to BMS now because the campaign system is so cool. Still love my Mig 15 in DCS though lol
I decided to give BMS a try based on this video, I must say I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoy it. Early days still but looks good.
BMS creates stories you want to tell. The unknown and dynamic nature of the campaign creates memorable experiences. An escort mission goes off without a hitch, but during the egress you realize the enemy scrambled a 2-ship of 29s, you have no missiles left, and they are in *hot pursuit*.
Here is my thought. There is only 1 reason i spend my time in DCS. It allows me to get very intimate with a number of very iconic aircrafts i have been dreaming about all my life. The idea to know exactly how to start a Spitfire or an AH-64D Apache is everything for me. This is the same reason why BMS will never appear in my HD. Aircraft variety is 100% why i own DCS. No other reason. I don’t care about multiplayer or dynamic campaigns. I don’t care about knowing 100% one aircraft. I care about knowing 80% a moltitudine of aircraft. I care about sitting inside the cockpit of an F-14 having all systems replicated with deep enough realism. That’s it. I confirm my love for DCS when i look at a Spitfire and i feel i know exactly where controls are and know how to use them. One airplane getting 100% of my sim time? No thanks.
That's why they call the game digital cockpit simulator. They say it as a meme, but imo it's a valid reason to like the game.
@@djbozo3323 in my opinion too.
Well presented and thanks for the explanations
While I haven't tango'd with DCS (I come from a place where spending 60 dollars on a single plane is a crazy luxury too rich for my blood) my other comparison ends up being something like Il-2, which while is a much older time frame, does feel more like DCS in the way you've described the content, server list, jump in, blow up stuff, jump out and all.
Having spent almost a hundred hours since I bought it, I was reminded a lot of BMS, which was my first flight sim, by virtue of the much lower barrier to entry.
Though yes, it is a lot more complex, something I've found is that despite the massive skill ceiling, BMS has a pretty generous skill floor. I felt much more capable at 100 hours of BMS than I do at 100 hours of Il-2.
Also the viper flies like an absolute dream and I love it in comparison to the warbirds. So here's to many more hours of BMS for me. Maybe I'll start getting good at some point :)
I love BMS but one serious down-side is that the regular MP matches take a LONG time. Like, just forget about it if you don't have at least a solid two or three-hour block. In that regard, DCS MP seems to be much friendlier to those with little free time, at the expense of realism and cooperative gameplay.
I can see that but it depends on who briefs the package mission. The same can be said about DCS if you have a slideshow and a proper debrief it is going to take a while to finish up.
We fly in a squadron with other people in DCS, it is very similar to the average BMS experience, except that its a static campaign. Based on what you said, I would transfer to BMS but it still doesnt really have the Hornet from what Ive heard.
Of course it has Hornet. You can fly it. Perhaps it is not a high fidelity cockpit, but it's there with its own flight mode. I fly it a lot of times when I want to experience something different than F-16C dogfighting, then I load up hornet.
i've been playing BMS for more than 15 years when I tried DCS I felt bored and I found the the F-16 still needs improvements especially on the RWR and I noticed some weird things such as the SA-10 shooting at you just like an SA-2 which is not logical, I like to fly old varients of the F-16 too which I couldn't find there. I'm an F-16 addict and I find myself comfortable in dynamic campaign more than anything else. it's hard for me to play other sim rather than BMS it's home for me, the community is amazing too.
The maps dont even look that bad when your High up in Falcon BMS, it imo can even compete with DCS maps(if your not on the ground or flying low). I played DCS long before I started Falcon BMS. I once saw a Tiktok and wondered "hmm this isnt DCS what is this?" and after a bit of research I found out its Falcon BMS, after more research I found out it had Dynamic Campaign, in 0.2 seconds I had the game bought and was googling the mod(first I was a bit confused since it was a mod but I thought its a game so that caused confusion) but yeah if Falcon BMS didnt have Dynamic I probably wouldnt even have bought it. For some reason I cant really get into Falcon BMS the way I get into DCS. It might be the graphics or controls or just the fact that Im more familiar with DCS. I found a great Dynamic Mission in DCS which really got me back into DCS before I was spending most time in ME creating missions that I test and then play once or twice. The mission kinda acts like Dynamic Campaign in Falcon BMS, you can go into communication menu and then like click Air to Ground mission and then theres even more stuff you can chose like do you want actual air to ground or do you want sead etc. if you click sead for example, a SAM site will get created randomly on the map and you can go and kill that SAM. the name is Through The Inferno and they also have a discord.
I know TTI more than I'd like to admit and it's not a great comparison.
Interesting video. I liked it.
If I understand your point correctly, then the fact that BMS players are considered more focused on authentic air operations, or more "serious", seems to stem from a lack of options, and not that the community is inherently so. It seems a false perception if BMS servers are mostly private servers for virtual squadrons and comparing those private servers to DCS's public community servers. A mor apt comparison would be private server to private server, I guess. In which guess I'm betting the virtual squadrons in both games are quite similar.
Having never played BMS, I do tend to agree that the F-16 is probably better represented in BMS, as its a love-child of the community and not of a business that has other modules to finish. Even the F-15C...I like watching BMS Eagle videos, because the aircraft is waaay better represented in BMS than it is in DCS.
While you mentioned that DCS has a lot of module (all of which are comparatively expensive) I think the one thing that was not mentioned is what the amount of those different aircraft allows communities and mission designers to do. Large diverse player-flown aircraft packages. Covering down on one platforms deificiencies with another. You can't rolex AI, so interactiveness between different platforms is a great thing. I think this is the bread and butter of DCS atm, not so much the air quake, that the loudest guys in the community seem to propagate.
Watching mission plannig in BMS also is cool, can't wait for the dynamic campaign, DTCs and air mission planning to be fully implemented in DCS. #2weeks
You *can* do hardcore mil-sim missions in DCS in a similar way to BMS, but as you correctly point out, it does take more setup time and having someone willing to do that work. I've done that a few times and hosted private events. While public servers are indeed often Air Quake, I wonder how many private DCS missions are going on that we just never hear about.
I have been to a few but the current state of the ALR-56M and other systems in the F-16 makes it very difficult for me to enjoy the mission.
I have BMS but I rarely fly it. I know Graphics are not the be all end all, but they are important. They immerse you and that is what it's all about. If graphics were not important, you may as well have the original graphics from Falcon 4, and we do not. I know that BMS though has improvements coming and I look forward to them.
I wonder why the BMS team just doesn't start charging money and fund development so that they can make improvements on a larger scale?
@Crunch104 Graphics should be true to life but if you can get a the F-16 to go 800 knots and not have any consequences it defeats the purpose. In other words simulation and physics are more important than graphics.
Tiny Combat Arena (2022 and still in early access) have the "original graphics" from Facon4, and I have tones of fun in it.
@@umi3017 It is still definitely an awesome sim and I'm grateful to those that continue to work on it.
IMO the statement "graphics doesn't mean more realistic" is not for the flight sim. For proper simulation, you need both. You need it all. You need dynamic world/campaign, you need photo-realistic graphics, you need proper control devices (force-sensing stick and pedals if we talk about F-16). Without any of these you miss a lot of realism. If you fly low and fast and it doesn't enable tunnel vision, adrenaline and stuff, you miss a lot of physical perception. If the game world is basically dead (like in DCS), you miss another kind of immersion. Generally DCS and BMS both simulate just some part of the actual thing. People choose between them because there's no other option.
Hello! Very reasonable comparison. I opened Falcon BMS for myself after being involved in all that 64HD supercinematic and so on in DCS. Now I have numerous modules most of which I have never even launched yet. I love to fly real helicopters and I appreciate all f/Sim developers for their work to transfer real flights in any home all around the world. MSFS/DCS/X-PLANE/BMS... Literally every. Side developers are cool, you know it guys.
But BMS is something that I cannot compare with my previous experience. As I'm a real helicopter pilot I always seek to have Sims for helicopters that means that jets are something secondarily for me. In DCS I took all helos before starting to gather jets. I wasn't really interested in airplanes. For sure it's fun and interesting but secondarily. Of course I have an early issued f-16c in DCS. And once I have an offer from the YT algorithm to watch a video about f-16 in BMS. Occasionally. To summarise all that boring stuff. I really was close enough to miss this wonderful work of a really cool team (or maybe one guy))
It's true that the DCS F-16 project is graphically nice, systems are running well and as it's an early access stuff we may expect a great module. And campaigns, the editor engine is really cool, no doubt.
Moving next. BMS is not only flying the F-16 and 15 now but a really cool thing. That fact that there is the whole Bibliothek) which is scary when you see it for the first time the project involves you to read it soon.
I'm unable to list all things that I like in BMS. It's literally everything in this project I was inspired with. I even liked to move that cool cursor through the interface and listen to sounds that triggered passing keys. That cool ATC, bullseye, friends and foes AI, data preparation..! Ammmazing!
Also BMS isn't like games or sims it's more like the government's project for training Air force pilots in pre task preparation, tactics, flying, interaction (yes, much more cooler than in DCS). That authentic graphics and interface.. Maybe you also watch that learning videos by different armies issued decades ago). I'm in love with those clips that you may see prior your campaigns in BMS. Despite that they have signs of propaganda. They are atmospheric.
I'm a helicopter pilot and I'm not an English native but now I'm dived into BMS completely.
All those letters that I typed patiently above have their purpose. I have a request for developers. If you have plans to reply to your community's requests to add candy graphics, change the interface, add hellos, simplify all. Please, at least keep an option to leave all as it is for users like me.
there are some mod development of helos on BMS, it's in a veeeery early stage but the future of bms is very cool
Same here, Not big fan of F-16 nor F-15C but really enjoying BMS Dynamic Campaign with ATC/AI and core game, In-depth simulation
For your information next update 4.38 will be eye-candy graphic update and It will remove the terrible Fog Wall so I cant wait
@@leonelantoniodelgadomedina8675Nooo! Not the helos! I beg!))) Of course, I wish to see how guys develop their BMS in their cool style so to speak. I just wanted to say that I like what they did and to my mind the team do not need to compete with any project. They've created very inspiring thing and things around it, friendly community. Helicopters? Let it be!) Hope they are going to be well integrated as well.🤝
@@fafafafa-k8cGraphics was something that confused me at the beginning when I saw video of using some tactics in BMS. I already know what DCS is after all.But I liked how things was explained in that video so I decided to try the game. Moreover recognising that it won't be expensive. It was disappointing to see the numerous branches of that menu tree at the beginning. I understood that it's necessary to research manuals, videoinstructions. But diving little by little into it I forgot about first impression of graphics. Moreover it became an advantage as you launch a game, you are not forced to wait long loading, you concentrate your attention on mission settings, preparation, and you perform the mission.
I'm not that guy who is building a cockpit at home. My choice is a laptop. Laptop which isn't at the top of the list. So it's very cool that anyone can use all that cool stuff in BMS not being a luxury or simcockpit lunatic fanatic. Although graphics is not good only in comparison with DCS doing which is a mistake I think. It's acceptable enough.
However it's interesting to see BMS improved in graphics. Nice to know that the game is in evolution.
I tried both and I do believe they are two different games and mindset. The thing though is DCS can be better even with its current limitations. Just try the Liberation dynamic campaign and you will see how DCS is transformed. BMS is an air combat sim with F16, DCS is a combat airplanes sim focusing more on airplanes rather the combat nature of air warfare. I truly believe DCS can be like BMS if ED changes their mindset. I have high hopes that ED will release the dynamic campaign and ATC overhaul which will make it similar to BMS
I'm not sure I can recognise the characterisation of the DCS mindset of fast and easy. DCS is anything but fast and easy. There is simply nothing fast and easy about it. But liking the look of BMS and so thinking hard about coming back to it after many years away
On of the first interactions I get when someone asks how do I fly the F-16 is that the manuals are too long, videos are too long and chuck guides are great can I use them with BMS.
I loved Facon 4 but stopped playing because of the weapon bubble. Long range, stand-off weapons are pointless as they stop existing outside of the bubble. I love my cruise missiles
It seems fair to contrast BMS vs DCS F-16’s only. I heard no mention of the phenomenal rotor wing in DCS or WW2 era. And then of course, there’s still nothing like ending a long and successful mission with a 3-wire at the boat….
I play both and enjoy them both. Been flying sims since the 80s. I appreciate what we have today. Hope more Hi fidelity Sims pop up, love all of them! Heck I even play the old F-19 game of old… Flight Sims are special ❤
Yup I have 500 hours on BMS and Free Falcon from... (Holy shit I'm old) more than 10 years ago. I flew with the Freebirds VFW and missions with them. I fly DCS now, and the Viper in DCS doesn't feel... right... Looking back, the F-15 in BMS back then was just being introduced and it was more or less like a reskinned Falcon. I'm surprised that a lot has happened since then and that the F-15 is standing on its own. For the the life of me I can't find my DVD image of my Falcon 4.0 otherwise I'd try to install the modern version of BMS. With regards to the topic; Player/Pilot mindset is different between Sims is different. DCS eases you into it, while BMS feels like entering ground school then doing flight hours, which I did with the Freebirds VFW back in 2006-2008. Back then Discord didn't exist we used Teamspeak. 40 mins to 1 hour briefs and debriefs back then was all part of the fun.
It’s also important that no matter what game you play DCS or falcon BMS You are give yourself a pat on the back because you learned something super hard to my DCS friends try something new try falcon BMS and to my falcon BMS friends try something new try DCS it may not be up to your standards on your favourite aircraft but who knows? Maybe another one can catch your eye❤
I played F4 back when it came out with its infamous wall-of-Migs. Then I got into Allied Force, then BMS. DCS is not an instant action sim. It takes months of flying just to get good at flying one of their modules. I find that if I switch aircraft and then go back again, I'm almost at square one. DCS's biggest issue is that it is sterile unless you go online. Sure you can play the missions or campaigns, but they are canned. After a few flights you know where most things are going to occur. BMS by comparison, feels like being in a living breathing world. I have completed the Korean dynamic campaign on more than a few occasions (hint - you can move your units on the map like a wargame!). You spend more time in BMS getting intel and trying to predict what's likely to happen. As the war is dynamic, things don't always pan out the way you think they will. Plus when you are up, there is a real sense of a real air war going on around you. What helps in this regard are the AI radio comms. BMS blows DCS into the weeds in this regard. Even the tower procedures for approaching and landing are very immersive and the airports feel alive and teaming with life. Despite this I have been primarily playing DCS because it has VR and its implementation makes it very easy to use the in-cockpit switches. However, BMS recently got VR, which I do need to check out. If one can click around the cockpit in VR within BMS, I'm likely to go back and never return :p
I agree with some of your thoughts and disagree with many others. I am glad BMS is there and I've flown it many times, I do enjoy DCS better. I do think the dynamic campaign in BMS is outstanding, but at the end of the day, I will always go back to DCS. BMS is too limited in maps and aircraft, but sometimes that's good, but after awhile I feel the need for something else. I do think everyone has their own style of flying, and I hate to lump people into two different camps. I never thought of DCS as quick and easy, I feel it's complex and troublesome, and I've got many aircraft which I agree, too many to be proficient at.
I try not to get sucked into buying DCS planes, nearly did with the F4...
Last two DCS videos I watched: someone struggling to get to grips with the F4 then someone complaining they were rusty with the Mig 21.
Realistically, how many full fidelity planes can one person get to grips with before going insane?
This is what I am thinking. It is like having 1000 channels but nothing to actually watch.
BMS: Go online for breakfast, check the ATO, come up with a few targets and frag a tanker package if needed.
In the evening, hop on TS and plan the flight together. Waypoints, roles, targets, loadouts, potential threats...
Execute the mission as professionaly as possible, because you never know what you'll encounter.
DCS: Enter targets from the F10 map, spam all available long range weapons and eject, because "flying home takes too much time."
Alternatively: take an A-10 with all the weapons, fire one missile, get shot down by the SHORAD that's been painting you for the last 60 seconds and repeat.
Yes, that's kinda extreme, but it's what stuck with me the most. I could always lead a flight in BMS, but in DCS I wouldn't know what to tell people, except "don't be stupid".
Hey AvP, I'm going to write my take in a bit long comment since you said you're interested in the end. I will back up you on some of them but I'll start with disagreeing few. (I'm waiting my friend for a CoD night so I got some time to kill 🤣)
I think you're biased on this review but hit the correct points to be fair.
1- DCS players expect to be good at their airframe in a quick time claim for example, it's true, but not true for everyone. Same applies for BMS, and actually any other thing an individual can do in their free time. I've seen people that really believed they mastered F-16 with just 50 hours. I mean yes, without complete procedures with failures and lacking things like hung stores may push them to think like that but I also know people that just does CAP in BMS and claims they are "experienced" in F-16. We all know there is more to that. So this point depends on the player not the game/sim whatever you want to call it.
2- You said BMS flight model is better than DCS, as an engineer, I know few things about fluid mechanics, dynamics and aerodynamics, I have never flown the F-16 but since I love it too much I spent some serious time reviewing it's charts. Not just only in HAF NATOPS, also some CFD analysis. I also feel like I'm actually firing a missile or dropping a bomb in DCS, in BMS it feels like a PNG moving fast. According to my sincere belief DCS modules overall copies the exact results on the CFD, which once Nick Grey also said that's how the "full fidelity" modules are made. We'll get back to this "full fidelity" in a bit. A little extra to give credit the sound engineers in ED, I lived 19 years near an air base and time to time get close with it and it sure sounds like absolutely the closest you can hear.
3- You're also 'kinda' right about DCS having many aircrafts and they cost. Well yeah but you don't have to buy them all. There are people interested in F-14 for example and you can actually find some retired old Navy pilots enjoying their time in DCS F-14 and living their memories again. So does it really a downside?
Okay I criticized enough. For backing you up,
1- My favorite aircraft is F-16. I dive very deep into it, and I'm so happy that we have BMS. The effort Benchmark team puts into F-16 systems, as you mentioned, is just unmatched. I've started BMS after I master the thing in DCS, I was still doing things like not closing canopy during JFS or doing after-start checks etc. but the idea of getting punished for not paying the attention this bird demands is just too fun for me!
2- I totally agree about the dynamism of BMS. I love DCS and all that but, forget about the money, waiting for a campaign to released for months? C'mon man...
3- About graphs, yeah obviously DCS is better but I also think BMS do not look terrible. Or that's just maybe I'm too much immersed to pay attention to the wear in cockpit... :P
That pretty much sums it up for me, feel free to agree, disagree, block, report, spam, discuss or anything like that :D
@@kaan2866 Bias maybe but I do have experience in both. I fly the F-16 specifically and DCS does not do it for me when it comes to functionality. I have personally tried to create missions but it is too much manual manipulation for my taste. I spent more time creating missions than flying them.
I did say these point apply for some but not all in the first bit of the video also everyone knows that everything cannot be covered in a video.
1- Remember I am talking about mindsets and the mind set in DCS is to be good at an aircraft quickly. Hence Chuck's Guides, Interactive Training Missions, 60 second videos and tutorials teaching how to use and not how it functions to develop a better understanding instead of just surface level. In BMS because of the available failures a deep understanding is needed increasing the learning curve.
2- Flight model is more accurate. Have you seen all of the documents explaining every detail that was put into the flight model? Even Mover made some comments about the flight model in a recent video. Having the feel of firing a missile is not necessary related to how increased the drag rate is. On another note being able to replace skill with notching everything is not favorable either. The lack of rudder authority was embarrassing with the video I made with the Knife Edge, as of now it is fixed. Full authority is still not there comparing with real life videos which I have created. The Sound is awesome I will say. As a flightline maintainer it is spot on however that does not replace other playability issues that many have with DCS.
3- Didn't say paying for modules was a downside. The downside is having modules that you don't use or is not developed to a subjective standard at the start. But that was not the scope of this video. When it comes to not having terrains and removing your ability to fly certain servers because you don't have the map.
Again I only use the F-16 and DCS does not come close to what I want. Imo the F-16 in DCS is unplayable mostly due to how the RWR works. I am always trying to fly in DCS but I get disapointed and find something that degrades my experience everytime.
Appriecate your response. There is no winning but opening minds to different and lesser known differences is what my goal was.
@@AviationPlus I feel you, after BMS it’s almost impossible for me too to get back into DCS viper and act it’s okay. But once again, yes I checked the BMS page and I’m not saying it’s not realistic or anything, acutally the modeld are very similar. And same Mover made videos for DCS as well saying close as it gets, for BMS as well. The notch is a topic on it’s own. Map stuff is also a thing you are right imo. It feels so limited. Buy I’d love to see & hear more about your RWR issue.
I have a few videos regarding the RWR issue here is one. th-cam.com/video/evDemqQufVY/w-d-xo.html
@@AviationPlus Oh I see now. Well accordingly to the HAF manuals it should give some sort of distance data but the RWR on HAF F-16s is AN/ALR-66 so I’m not sure if it’s same with AN/ALR-56. But I’m now curious about it 🤔
I have 3800h in Dcs. I play this game for fun. Fun only. In my First 50h I Fell in love with the Mission Editior, since then I Play most time PvE. Building myself a Little combat zone etc.
With Friends its fun to Play online but (for me) its a Little Bit Boring because I Like dogfights and Most of the guys I Play with are bad. (Even random guys on the 1v1 Servers)
Ive been in a Squad for a couple of weeks but the Realism was Boring.
Ive Played Falcon BMS and this Game is to „realistic for me“
But its a very very good Simulator.
For me:
Falcon BMS>Realism
Dcs world> Simulator with fun and fast playing
So I'm still new when it comes to the world of flight sims and DCS is my first, I want to learn BMS but like you said it takes time to learn and with me going to college and stuff, it's much more easier to hop into DCS. That being said I recognize DCS has some glaring issues, funny enough while graphics is DCS's biggest strength it's also a major weakness since even with beast of machines there are a lot of performance issues especially if you're a VR player.
I'd love to get into BMS, it hits all the things I want from a sim, but it's just hard to balance the time with work, life and family. Without dedicating days to learning and hard times to join the community fly-outs, it's a tough beast to get into and learn
This is a totally valid reason. However either way you are going to have to learn the aircraft to fly. If you are in a small group briefings aren't that long. Eventually when you fly briefing could be like 10 minutes.
@@AviationPlus excellent points. I just need to be better with time management 🙂
Im not a zealot on any one game but ive enjoyed BMS since starting within the past month. I will say playong DCS and the F-16 there has cut down the learning curve quite a bit. The dynamic campaign is what's hooked me so far. Graphics arent THAT bad and they will improve shortly it seems.
I mostly fly DCS but Im a Falcon alumni from 3.0 onward. Tried BMS a few times but waiting on the new terrain engine and more developed F15C and a few other things. Im happy that BMS exists but DCS suits my style more at this point. Also VR in DCS is better. General variety also helps a lot. We are lucky to have the choice what sim to fire uo and also F16 is my fav jet. Also you forgot to mention that DCS has helos BMS does not.
i think VR got better fps on BMS, but yes wait for the terrain engine update!
I agree 💯 DCS is still way better in VR, until then I have to struggle with DCS bugs but once BMS figures out VR graphics, it is going to create big pressure on ED for sure
Honestly, I play both in a regular basis. DCS is both for flying quickly when I'm having a hard week, as its gameplay is as you said, hop in and start shooting; also, I play with a DCS squadron, and it's a ton of fun. BMS is amazing, I absolutely love it and have a good time every single time I play it, but it requires more time overall and, sometimes, I don't have it.
You can really find the place for both in your gameplays. But, I have a lot of critics for ED and DCS, it's WAY behind BMS's quality.
Spot on i normally fly dcs if i want quick blast on multiplayer server. But i find game boring thier is no real single player like BMS, i have many modules something i feel like i wasterd my money 😢
I started to care less about system realism, because I will never be able to tell the difference. Since I 'm just a fan. Best I can hope for is graphics and physics.
I agree, bms is superior to dcs. In the F-16 and F-15C. It seems you’ve only experienced public servers which in my opinion are not what dcs is meant to be, and the difference in skill is too large to make public servers enjoyable (ex growling sidewinder 4ya etc) there are a lot of squadrons and communities who use the variety of aircraft that DCS includes perfectly, making large coordinated packages in engaging lore, detailed briefings, and skilled pilots willing to teach and help newer players. With checkrides,SOPs and training missions.Of course this is a fraction of the dcs population but these communities do what dcs is meant to do, diverse large strike packages that make it feel like you’re in a real combined task force. That’s my opinion having played both. I’ll always take a bms viper over a dcs viper but it’s how different airframes work together in order to complete a mission that does it for me, even though I only fly the viper and tomcat, I love it. Falcon bms is another world, while more realistic I think missions become very repetitive as there aren’t many things to swap mission to mission. The dynamic campaign is amazing though.
I am planning on starting either BMS or DCS in the near future,the only previous flight sims i have ever tried were war thunder,flightgear and flight simulator X.I am eager to learn both sims and be a serious player but at the same time i don't wanna make the sim my life or pretend to be a real pilot like some people do.According to that can someone suggest me which sim would be possibly more close to my playstyle?
DCS but if you dont wanna waste ur money and time like I did then FalconBMS
You can still play the game casually without pretinding to be a pylote or some shit
You do know there are tons of MILSIM and Quasi-MILSIM groups that operate within DSC, that do all of what you talked about..
This doesn't change the quality of the F-16 in DCS, or the fact that everything can be notched.
@@AviationPlus I've never experienced DCS. Are you saying that if you notch anything from an SA-2 to an SA-10, you'll defeat the missile every time?
@@effsixteenblock50 Yes. th-cam.com/video/A9lmDbSgO2A/w-d-xo.htmlsi=GBRXAXtlfbWVfFWk
Thanks Great vedio for making understand
Sounds more like the Mindset is exactly the same if you ask me. but at this point, unless you're an actual F-16 pilot I'm not sure I'd be able to say which is more realistic than the other. at this point the DCS F-16 keeps getting minor updates and changes all the time to tweak the flight-model. but I'd say the majority (actually around 70%) of the DCS playerbase flies singleplayer. but I will agree that things get a bit stale. Though saying that DCS is a game that you can learn to use a Jet in an hour is VERY wrong. 1 month is more accurate :P
DCS can provide much more than quick action. It can offer deep, immersive scenarios in a much larger variety of aircraft than BMS can. Yet there is no denying that as the current and currently funded simulator, it is behind in a number of ways. While the average playerbase opinions may be different between the two, I don't think either are completely homogeneous. I don't fly DCS primarily as an action shooter, though it can fulfill that role. A large portion of any divide will also come from the fact that DCS is better marketed and easier to find so players will usually come across DCS before BMS.
When it comes to MP If everyone is experienced a briefing can be a solid 10 minutes depending on the experience level and the number of players in the mission. But no there is not a server listing with thousands of players playing.
Now. When BMS first came out way back in the day I loved it. Since then DCS over a decade later came out and offered so much more, all be it the dynamic campaign model needs to catch up with BMS. I like the sensation of flying in VR DCS, but I also like variety. I have repurchased BMS via Steam. I am a simple sole though. Can someone please provision me with a step by step guide in how to bring BMS up to the latest standard on my PC? So I can then have a chance to compare the modern BMS to the current DCS? I would really appreciate a step by step guide.
They both serve nicely for their intended purposes. Anyone that feels the need to argue over it is still young and stupid enough to think other people not sharing their opinion matters. Simple as that. Enjoy whichever you like.
i play dcs for years and buy lot of modules that kept me going in game, but while im starting with bms when i buy vr and try it because of performance i was amazed even when a i missing hands in game and must use mouse even graphic is not good as dcs now i play mostly bms a im to dcs put hundreds of euros , but ok i love f4/f14/f15/f18/mirage .. some maps, ..I think if I had known earlier about bms I will save a lot of money ..
I've got both including MSFS, due to work it's hard to get on and play.
One thing I'd like to know about BMS, are there "training range" missions or ones you can make yourself? Kind of similar to making a training range on the Nevada map in DCS.
In the Tactical Engagement you can create any mission you want. Also there are training missions with different scenarios that you can practice in. There are ranges with tank and aircraft shells to blow up. There are even smoke bombs to see the accuracy of your weapons.
Even the FPS drop, during a landing in DCS in 05:21 is enough to say that does it and delete DCS. If I cannot have the joy to feel every moment of the viper during a landing after a successful mission, why would I waste time with it?
It is not even the performance. It is the fundamental state of the aircraft that makes it difficult to enjoy. If one has never experienced BMS then it is a complete unknown to them making them unware of its potential.
I used to play Flanker2.5, then LOMAC/LOFC then DCS Ka50, and that's it, not even went to A10C somehow. I was playing F4AF for that time but not really into it, then OpenFalcon, Then now BMS.
Oh, my main time is on FS9/P3D and XPlane all along, well, actually my main time and money is now on CAE's simulator in my company, as an instructor ....
I have been thinking going back to DCS for few years but never pulled the trigger, I wasn't able to launch old LOFC and DCS Ka50 copy due to the DMC is totally outdated and refuse to run on my current system.... as for the current DCS.... yeah, maybe I'll try it for free the next falcon weekend.....wondered that for few years......
Last year I got a "de-DMCed" copy of LOFC2 and finally get it running.... some good memories flashback... but then I got VR, I really can't go back to dogfight with TrackIR anymore... totally Spacial disorientation.
And yet I haven't download and try the free DCS.... somehow the BMS just... works... why bother....
Most people heard about DCS while nobody did about this game can't even remember its name
Ok doesn't fix that it can take days to create a mission on the Mission Editor in DCS and 5 minutes to create a mission in a Falcon BMS Campaign.
You made a comment that DCS is a game you can learn to fly in a short amount of time and get started within a day. The only place that would possibly be close to true are the Flaming Cliffs 3 planes which are dumbed down compared to major modules like the F-16. I have played falcon since the old 286 Days with Falcon AT (that was released in 1988 BTW), Falcon 3.0, Falcon 4.0 and now DCS. The F-16 has a 500+ page manual and also required plenty of time in the training missions as well as watching videos for hours. If you started out with BMS and had pre-existing knowledge, then learning DCS I imagine could have been far simpler but someone who played DCS first I disagree completely with your assertion you can start from scratch in DCS and have it all down within a day. This is coming from someone who's been flying flight simulators since the 80's as Falcon AT was released in 1988. Now keep in mind I'm not just doing air to air. I spent a lot of time learning how all the different air to ground weapons work in all their different modes as well so I could fly and successfully complete all the different missions/compaigns often switching from attacking ground targets to having to defend against an air threat immediately.
To be honest I don’t really get this video, I’m looking to get into Flight Sims soon and I think I’m going to go with DCS, looks amazing and by the sounds of it is way more beginner friendly. That being said I don’t understand this whole mindset thing nobody is spending 80 dollars on a full fidelity F-18 expecting to jump straight in for some instant action, that’s what War Thunder is for. I can’t speak from personal experience but I have done some looking around on TH-cam and what not and it looks to me like there are plenty of very serious DCS players who are completing custom made missions with briefings, objectives and roles. This video seems a little sneery and wasn’t that helpful to someone looking to compare the two.
@@jonoleech7832 Comparison of mind sets not games. I don't understand why no one understands that. These two games are not compatible. It can be said they have two different purposes.
AviationPlus I love your videos, although i think posting another video on DCS/Falcon bms differences is like voluntarily fueling more the arguing...
The videos are needed when it comes to knowing the difference between the two. We all know that is on everyone's mind and something that is always asked. Introducing that the mindsets are different is a good way to explain what the differences are regardless of graphics.
You and me both know the next burning question is "Can learning the DCS F-16 help me with BMS" would rather want a video to link people to then have to explain every time it is asked.
@@AviationPlus I totally get you, but others might make this comment section a debate competition 😂. Anyway keep up the good work! I always send your videos to my beginner friends 😉
Ya well comment sections are there to comment. I am glad to see less mentions of just graphics and that BMS/DCS sucks.
Still studying. I've come a long way though. I plan to join a VFW one day in the future.
Graphics aren't as big an issue. I want as close to realistic as possible that would be required by me, the pilot, if I were operating the aircraft in real life. To include all switches, controls, run-ups, etc.
@@Rikalonius This is exactly my view on the matter.
I could not agree more!
I feel like BMS players look at DCS players the way DCS players look at War Thunder players 😂
Well it doesn't help when the first thing a DCS player asks is what is the keybind for auto start.
The one thing i find the most annoying from both sides, is the superiority they feel. they are always bickering back and fourth on who plays the better sim. when will the players learn to appreciate both? Both games have their ups and downs, which make them both worth it to play. the best game out the 2 of them is the one you like the most. the fights and insults just make it a toxic atmosphere which is not needed. just have fun
Agreed but there is no question on which represents the F-16 more accurately.
@@AviationPlus You would hope so since BMS is dedicated to it.
Today's polarization is ridiculously exaggerated on all social media platforms, ppl are argueing even when they agree on the same thing like an old married couple on a city park bench where one says it's a bit chilly today, and the deaf geezer replies with yeah it's a bit windy today, then the old lady replies, I didn'y say you were windy dead, I said it's a bit chilly. Then he yells IF YOU DONT LIKE ME BEING WINDY THEN DONT FEED ME CHILLIES cunt. And the beautiful morning of two people who love eachother all of their lives was ruined over nothing. -- To their defence the polarisation on social media is deliberate, the algorithms search for possible conversations that elicit confrontational reactions to make it go viral, viral content is digital gold. We are herded like cattle by AI and similar algorithms or agents to in turn milk sponsor "likes", which can translate to real $$$ bank numbers.
Maybe im just used to my potato gaming rigs but BMS has always looked *fine* and its getting better
I disagree with your views on DCS. People don't expect to learn an aircraft quickly in DCS, only a newb would expect that. People don't expect to get to flying and start shooting either. Most people are well aware that they could be on a mission with their buddy and after planning, detailing waypoints, choosing ammunitions and taking off and flying for 45 minutes to a target destination just get shot down by a missile or something because they weren't paying attention of forgot to turn something on. It happens and then it's back to square one. And btw the training missions in DCS are really bad, so bad, that I go to youtube for training.
Man... i just want a good naval warfare game that isn't straight arcade like world of warships and isnt crap like in Warthunder
@@trashyspeeds266 Welp you came to the wrong place for naval warfare.
@@AviationPlus yes and no... landing on aircraft carriers is still fun!
PVP is a big reason some people stick to DCS (like me). With the amount of planes in the game "true" red/blue pvp is possible while in BMS it's not really a thing.
Well when the AI is at the state it is in DCS PvP would be the way to go. In BMS the AI are basically human based on the skill level.
Hello geeat video, i have been thinking of picking up bms. I am a DCS person. Is it worth it. And would there be a learning curve or are the f 16 functions the same. I been playing the f 16 dcs for about 3 yrs.
It is worth it but if you can't accept the graphics then don't even bother. Functions are similar but the UI is different along with the multiplayer process.
@AviationPlus lol I feel like most games these days are not that graphically great. I think I can deal with that, Thank you.
I followed your videos and now I have Falcon Bms. Thanks again sir, for the tip and finally pushing me to get it.
Kiddo, you simply threw all your frustrations into this video and think that all the other players are like you... The funny thing is how there are BMS fanboys who keep making comparisons with DCS, while people who play DCS don't even care about BMS. I think it's interesting to have options, the problem is the frustrated fanbase.
BMS is lesser known because everyone is captivated by graphics and pulled in by spending money and feeling trapped because of having $500+ invested.
@@AviationPlus Your answer only proved that you are a frustrated fanboy, there are hundreds of channels focused on realism and immersion within DCS, the beautiful graphics are a bonus. If you are going to do the realistic coldstar procedure on the Hornet, Phantom or Mirage 2000 it will take you more than half an hour in DCS, there is no such nonsense as those who play DCS like instant action. And finally, the money is my spending on the game I want.
@@Wardog-BRA Ok well gotta play BMS now. Working on a campaign for months with about 12 of us.
@@AviationPlusVery good kiddo, play BMS and be happy, let DCS players play what they like. You are growing up.
@@Wardog-BRA The real question is does the DCS community truly enjoy playing and like the way ED is running things?
For F-16 is not any sims more depth as BMS. I never see in any sims so good ATC as in BMS. If I wish something is cockpit interuior in BMS to look as in DCS, that is my single wish.
Finally, a decent and honest overview of both sims. Well done.
lol I think you included our face off for the red flag training where I got shot down by the boat hahaha 🎉
Yes that was indeed you! lol