Thanks for posting this video. I had my mower serviced at a local small engine repair shop and the guy obviously didn't know what he was doing. The engine was over-revving when I got it back and I didn't want to take it back to him. Your video was very helpful getting the governor adjusted correctly to bring the rpm's back to normal. Boy, that adjustment is really sensitive though, isn't it? The slightest adjustment makes a big difference! Thanks a million!
The engine's load is always changing so they use a governor. In a car you are the governor and constantly modify rpm; Once you reach a certain speed-rpm you barely press the throttle to maintain it. At the same speed-rpm if you begin to go uphill the load increases and you have to push the throttle further to maintain the same speed. Now once you go down hill you let completely off to maintain the same speed. RPM is governed by the operator. The governor on a Briggs does all this automatically.
Thanks, I just fixed one really old Briggs&Stratton machine and I was wondering how governor internals work. Didn't need to disassemble the engine, but it bothered me how linkage actuation was gone. I was expecting centrifugal type actuation and seems like I imagined it almost spot on, but didn't know about that internal lever. Thanks for the video 👍
Honda sets their mowers at lower rpm than most to keep the sound levels to a minimum. The engines they use are designed to run faster and can easily and safely do so. Blade tip speed is what cuts grass nice, so higher rpms is a good thing. Your governor arm could have slipped and that will lower your rpms a fair amount. I would mark the spot that it is now and adjust the arm (a tiny bit) like I show to increase your rpms.
THANK YOU .... for the comment that surging, hunting is a dirty carb. I adjusted the spring 7 times. then watched your video. I cleaned my carb and the surging / hunting turning into smooth running. THANK YOU.
Hey thanks man for the reply. You are right sometimes the motor sounds like its gonna stall. The GCV160 is a very good work hourse of a motor. I did mess around with the governor today and got the rpms up to about 2600. I quickly reset it back to 1800 because the motor was louder. I think i will mess around with it a little more tomorrow. Thank you for your help!
Great video... By far the most straight forward explanation from the governor/ throttle relationship I’ve seen. I have a high revving Honda mower. Trying your adjustments tomorrow. Thanks
Nice... Most people when they have a hard time understanding something ask questions. But I guess criticizing someone, who is trying to teach them makes them superior. I guess you taught me.
Well explained so that even I can understand a difficult concept. I cleaned my carb and put it back (Crafts. Eager 1) and just runs for 1 second and quits. Well the governor linkage spring was too stretched so the throttle was always closed. I changed the carb, cleaned the old and put back, took the bowl off again, recleaned the main jet, changed the gas, cleaned the tank, etc. What a nightmare because I didn't understand what was going on.
On a Kohler Courage 17HP engine, rotate the governor cross shaft (shaft) COUNTERCLOCKWISE as you view the end of the shaft to hold it against the governor pin, and tighten the governor assembly lever onto the shaft with the carburetor throttle valve wide open. Sincerely, David Parker
.... continued... small engines should run around 3400rpm and max at 3600. I repair engines for a living and take great pride in lawn quality. You get a better cleaner cut from a mower running closer to 3600rpm than 2900-3000.
You are correct with the Honda service manual I have the same manuals. I am not arguing with that. If you look at the individual specs for the engines they are almost all rated at 3600 rpm max (some at 4000). Honda specs that the rpm be lower on newer mowers to reduce emissions and lower the sound. If you want the best performance/ most hp out of your engine they are safely rated to run at 3600 max(no load). This is one of the first Honda mowers that I have had to adjust.
Continued: I have tested at least a dozen others and they all have been set from the factory at around 3400-3500rpm. This is the first one that has been set this low. It made a HUGE difference in performance in cutting a lawn.
Awesome. Can't thank you enough! My brain was swimming (not that it doesn't take that much for that to happen.) I haven't used the mower since we got a rider last year. I took apart the carb, cleaned it out and hit all the jets with a copper wire. The filter was looking pretty dirty so I bought a new one. Moved the gov, it was around 4k, but ran out of time to fine tune it. I'll post my results after I get it finished.
Thank you for the informations. I've tried to adjust the governor during and hour and a half,it's really really really sensible. now it's like before i touched it or radically way higher, screaming. Without the rpm meter i don't want to touch it. The mower belongs to a grandma i'm helping i can't take a risk. At least it's starting and working now. Thank you again. : ) Greets from France.
Done right! Others advocate bending arms. Personally I've changed spring location or spring weight to achieve differing RPM's. You did comment that the adjustments are very slight - "tiny" was the word you used. And yes, it IS a tiny change. Easy enough to get it way out of whack for someone who isn't quite as mechanically skilled. I'd advocate for changing springs. OR make adjustments with the governor arm linkages all disconnected and the arm swung to its furthest most position only limited by the internal mechanisms and loosen the shaft tensioning nut and make slight adjustments by moving the arm and not the shaft.
My Honda Engine is similar but behind that arm is a small lever that is the idle control for mine. Mine was initially really low and then I loosened the nut and it went crazy high. I finally figured out to slide the lever toward the front of the mower and then tighten that nut back up.
Great Video, had I seen this before I tried screwing with my Honda Pressure Washer, it would have saved me a trip to the parts store for a spring I thought I could stretch and tighten. Thanks for your time and effort on this, also saved me a trip to the repair shop for my unit.
ok. I've watched the two sets of vids you made. I will clean the carb tomorrow. I've messed with the governor set up but once the carb clean i will put it back like it was. The tension spring set up is weird however, completly useless on my engine. Thank you for your help : )
Thanks for the response! Makes perfect sense and I agree 100%....it's just that my engine sounded like it was way over revving but I countered the idle jet back a little and it sounds a lot better. Either way I just ordered a tach/hour online and as soon as it gets here I will dial in rpms to 3400 -3600. Greatly appreciate the input!
cont: In the commercial mowing industry they run their blades at the fastest the government will allow(yes they even regulate this). To sum up. 3600 will give you more horse power and cut the grass nicer. An engine that dies when the blade is engaged generally means carb issues. It could be as simple as a dirty air filter or a partially clogged main jet.
You could probably do it by ear pretty good. Remove the chain so you can full rev the engine and hear what it sounds like. Then mark exactly where everything is so you can put it back if you run into trouble. Adjust the governor and restart the engine and rev it. You just want it to sound faster. I little adjusting goes along way. Even race engines will have a rev limiter to prevent the engine from exceeding a certain RPM and self destructing, that's all your doing.
First I would check for a bad air filter. Generally that will cause reduced power and black smoke. Try running it for a minute without a filter to test. A wrong hole in the linkage will also cause lag. Mark the spot it is in now and try moving it one spot over.
Shit hot mate, four years my ride on has sat in the garage (when it's at temp, it revs and idles, revs and idles) now I know whats wrong. Thanks from the UK
Sorry for the late reply. It is winter here now in Australia and the grass is not growing much at all so I have not used the lawn mower lately. I checked the air filter and it was filthy, I have ordered some new filters from ebay, when they arrive I will install one and give it a try. Thanks for your advice, I will let you know how it goes when the grass starts to grow and I can test it out under load.
@justinml11.... All these small engine made by Briggs and Stratton, Honda, Tecumseh, Kohler, etc are 3600rpm or less. They can be made to handle higher rpms but it requires billet rods, flywheels, forged crankshafts, ect. Pretty much everything internally has to be replaced. It is 10 times cheaper to change the gear ratio if you want your go cart/mini bike to go faster. Good Luck.
If the engine shuts off at 1/2 or less throttle I would adjust the idle screw on the very top of the carb. It is probably set out too far. Turn it in Clockwise a turn or so at a time and run the engine. This screw is what ultimately sets your low idle speed. Once your able to get it to run at idle then you can actually back it out until it idles exactly where you want.
The government maximum mower blade tip speed is limited to 19,000 Feet Per Minute. That means a 21" blade is limited to about 3456 RPM. Now if you have a 20" blade, you can easily run it at 3600 for best performance. Riding Mowers where the blade is run by a belt, the gear ratio is changed to get he maximum FPM out of the blade at the engines 3600rpm. With several 18" blades they raise the gear ratio to spin them at around 4000 rpm(3400-3600 engine rpm) to keep within the 19000FPM limit.
@classicoutboards .. Good. This tells us that the butterfly is working properly. You will need to adjust the governor further. It is a VERY sensitive instrument. Looking at the governor arm determine which way closes the throttle. If moving it in a counter clockwise direction closes the throttle butterfly/reduces rpm then you need the rotate the governor shaft coming out of the block clockwise in the governor arm to reduce the throttle. Let me know how you make out.
Another way to "reset" them is to loosen the crimp nut, hold the arm all the way to the right, turn the shaft in the middle all the way to the right while holding the arm to the full right position. Tighten the nut down while everything is at the full right position and you're done with it. Done it many times this way. Works at the factory setting that way.
1972FordF150 , Having removed the carb for cleaning after reassembly I found that the motor would only run at full tilt on either the Rabbit or Tortoise position, I followed your instructions and it's now perfect. Also a big thanks to sixtyfiveford for the video which gave me a better understanding of the workings of the governor.
That’s okay providing the Carb, linkage has not been changed by bending stretching E tcetra Loosen off the nut yes but first mark the position with a tipex White mark then you can adjust it either left or right one notch at a time re clamping each time until you have the required R P M But you say all the way to the right ??, So you want them to disconnect your springs ?? not a good idea for the average Joe and all the way to where ????till it touches some other part of the engine ??? its not on test bed where these things are set up ??? and with age the R P M will slow down
By removing it will allow you to get engine to higher rpms. The problem with this is the engine will be put at risk of throwing a rod, damaging valve train, oil starvation, over heating, cam failing, etc at higher rpms. I would suggest setting the governor to allow you to run at higher rpms.. Like 4000 rpm vs the stock 3400-3600prms. This will give you a little more but you limit the risk of blowing up your engine. People think it is a magical device that limits there hp but its not...
You might get more HP out of a higher revving mower but the most torque is generated at a lower RPM. I have installed a new throttle cable on a neighbor's older Honda mower and it stipulates 3000 RPM. Two Toros I have with a 4 cycle Suzuki OVH both stipulate 3000 RPM and those are all older mowers (late 80s).
That is the rpm recommended under full load. If you actually left it at 3060 it would drop to 2500-2700rpm under full load. Performance is severely compromised at that rpm. These engines are rated at 3600 rpm.
It's your idle circuit in the carb that is causing the surging. Ebay has new carbs for around 20 bucks or you can attack it again. The carb can't maintain a set rpm because there is no or too little gas flowing through the idle circuit and it has to keep opening the main butterfly to get more gas. The engine then revs to the rpm it should be and the governor closes the carb butterfly and the cycle repeats.
thanks buddy, I have been a mechanic since I was a kid... now I got a paper that says I know what I am doing! I never knew how the governor worked on a lawnmower, I knew it controlled rpm, I just wasnt sure how. I will be sure to check my rpm because it does seem to rev pretty low.... I wanna get me one of those sweet gauges you got there, then I could tell how long I have to perform different services.
When you make these videos you should have light at the back of you to illuminate your work so we can all see what it is that you are working with. Everything you are working with is dark compared to the background sunlight. If the sunlight were directly on these dark parts we could see how they work together.
hi i've cleaned up the carb like you showed in the vid. the mower is working now. it's not perfect because the idle is low and it tend to die after a bit. The max rpm is quite low too and was yet, before i touch the governor. i can mow under load at least. Thank you for your help.
Yes, there was also air vane governors used on old Briggs and Stratton. I have never seen one of those go off or go bad. Air Vane Governors: The flywheel is also a fan and creates air flow. The air flow pushes on a tab (air vane) and it in turns pushes on the throttle. A spring holds it back. The faster the engine moves the more air flow and the harder it pushes on the air vane(closes the throttle). When the engine slows the spring pulls harder (opens the throttle). Delicate balance.
@justinml11 They are built to handle higher engine rpm's. These small engines are only manufactured to handle 3600 rpms. If you want to go faster you need to change the gear ratio. A larger sprocket on the engine or a smaller sprocket on the axle will raise the gear ratio and give the machine a higher speed.
I love governor videos. I think of the old ones on the steam tractors with the ball weights. same thing as the internal ones here. Hey you are looking clean cut in this vid!!!
sixtyfiveford I hope you don't mind I just did a vid on the 6.5HP Briggs Intek. governor. I had two come in before and then just after I commented on your video. Things are so weird how they happen. My first one was my 8-32 snow-blower (Tecumseh)
I never said it wouldn't cut or do a job I am just saying it cuts better at higher rpm. I have used every brand of mower out there and they all cut better, have better mulching abilities and bag better at rpms closer to the engines max rated ability. The shearing action of a mower rips grass at slower rpms and leaves brown grass tips. Yes a sharp blade helps but most people don't sharpen their blade 2-3 times a season like it needs but rather every couple years.
The engine itself is designed to run at a constant 3600 rpm safely. They use this engine on various equipment and on most 3600 is required. Honda however has their mowers set a lower rpm for several reasons: sound level and overall engine life. The engine will last longer at 3100rpm vs 3600 but you also does significantly less work at 3100 rpm. The technique mowers use in cutting grass give a better cut the faster the blade spins. The faster the blade spins the faster you can walk with the mower
Exactly... rated UP TO 3600 RPM but it does not stipulate to adjust the governed speed at 3600 RPM. 2500 RPM is peak torque and 3600 RPM is peak horsepower so to get the best of both worlds, 3000 RPM is the typical standard for governed speed.
This is the most complete video I saw on this topic, thanks a lot, this does help me. (very kind remark to help: your video would be easier to see if you avoid to have high level of light in the back, as this makes a lot of shades on the interesting parts of your tuto)
I would of left it at around 3k for better fuel, I mow my mothers yard and it use to take about 1 and 1/2 refills to finish it and I adjusted mine by ear down to prob around 2.5k and I can do her whole yard in just under 1 take full... not that much difference one mite think but when your hot and almost got it done and don't wanna have to stop to refill the gas in the home stretch its very nice to me.
@sixtyfiveford OK, I manually operated the governor arm with the motor running and decreased the engine speed to idle, let go, and it does indeed over rev.
Governors are virtually bullet proof. Your engine is surging/slapping because the idle passage on your carb is clogged. The carb can't maintain rpm because of to little gas flow through the idle circuit and has to keep opening the main butterfly to get more gas. The engine then revs to where is should be and the governor closes the carb butterfly and the cycle repeats. "IF" your carb has an adjustable idle jet screw it out 1/4 turn at a time until it smooths out.
Thanks for the video and helping me understand the operation of the governor. I have a Honda gc160 on a pressure washer. The engine runs just great except the rpm's don't increase when under a load.however when i advance the governor control manually the rpm's increase as well as the water pressure. I'm thinking it's a governor problem but I am wondering if it is an adjustment issue or a replacement issue. thanks again
@sixtyfiveford I got it figured out, the linkage going from the carb to the governor arm is messed up, along with the wrong governor spring being installed. I also tweaked the throttle lever to reduce the initial tension on the governor arm and now it seems to not be over reving
Good info mate. Cheers. The thing i always wonder is why run a governor and just connect the throttle straight up to the carb and limit it with a stopper screw or butterfly stop to avoid it over reving??? The more load you put on the engine just crank up ya throttle. Obviously there will only be a max throttle speed of 3600rpms that can be obtained though. Just a thought. Cheers for the info again though champ. Been working on alot of old briggs engines lately all with governors.
With the engine off the governor will move freely. With the engine running if you force it to slow down the governor arm will pull and be forcing the carb to open up and run faster. Once you let it go it will return to faster operation. What kind of engine is it?
There's a Kohler video that shows it all. On TH-cam just came up on mine the other day. The narration is in mechanic language but the cutaways and parts coloring is good views. They show how the lever and the flyweights and pin work inside.
😂 that's a first for me and I like it lòlól. The diagram gloves were epic! Much appreciated info, well done video, good info explained well. Thanks man! 👍
@justinml11 ....No 3600 is MAX. Any faster and the engine will blow up by throwing a rod. Yes when the engine is off the generally the throttle plate is wide open.
Thanks for the quick reply! I cleaned it out again the other night but it was late so I couldn't run it .. I ran it last night and it seems fine. So yeah, it was the carb!
@seapeddler It is called a "Tiny Tach" and they are available online everywhere. No the governor gear is not in time with any other gears. It can be in any position when installed.
yeah I agree never mess with the governor unless you have to with an rpm meter and that's only if you are really sure of yourself about messing with it, if not best take it to your dealer and have them adjust it.
All snowblower engines should run at 3400-3600rpm. The other comments are about lawn mowers that have mower blade tip speed regulations that they are trying to conform to.
The carb is fine. I pulled it and checked it and cleaned it. I checked the intake tube too. Of all the rebuilds and repairs I've done, this One has me stumped.
Hi I have a HRR2162SDA Honda lawn mower that is probably six or more years old. The lawn mower is running very high. I unscrewed the bolt on the governor and tried adjusting it, but the it wont turn at all. where you grab with the plyers it looks like a half moon. its different than the one in this video and it has a pin behind the governor arm. Thanks
Thank you, most likely the then the rpm is too slow since the water pressure is not what it was before. I will check the governor movement like you suggested and go from there, thanks again
The idle screw is virtually pointless and won't give you what you need. You need to pull the idle jet (directly below the idle speed screw) and clean it and the passage down into the carb bowl. It is very unlikely that you governor system is to blame unless it has been messed with and put back together incorrectly. With the engine off and the throttle lever set to rabbit the spring should pull the main butterfly open. At turtle there should be little to no spring tension.
Thanks for watching. I do respectfully disagree with you though. Most mowers are set around 2900-3100 because of blade tip speeds regulations and decibel regulations. These engines are ran in numerous other applications and governed to run at 3400-3600rpm (pressure washers, log splitters, commercial applications, etc). They will actually cool very will with the built in cooling fan on all these small engines at 3600rpm. Lets agree to disagree :)
Most cables for small engine are solid wire. It sounds like you have a bicycle type braided cable. I wish I could help more, but you are going to have to get innovative.
Thanks. I appreciate your videos. But if you will remember to keep the light (or window) behind the camera instead of behind the subject (you and your workpiece), it will be much more effective. The light is closing the aperture of the camera. It should be shining on the subject, not the camera lens. Thanks again.
I have no doubt you could crack it open and replace the small watch battery. I have had this little unit for 8 years and another on that is over 10-12 years old that haven't needed a battery for either. Nor does the display look dim like the battery is getting weak.
Great video sixtyfiveford. I have a couple questions, my riding lawn mower (Murray) has a 13.5 hp engine and I watch the govenor fluctuates, which means the throttle reves up and down. How can I regulate the govenor from reving up and down? Also, I disconected the lead at the bottom of the carburator float and it runs fine once in awhile. How do I adjust the fluctuation of the reving of the govenor? Thanks again for your video. Very informative.
Snownblower 2-stroke Tecumseh engine Hsk-600 its now eight years later I Just put in a New Motor haha started it Yesterday but I'm worried about the RPMS - the motors running a little Jumpy - The motor is new but probably sat in a box for years so this Video help me w the rpms I already blew up one motor read other post so I'm little worried about running it, whats normal whats not? I'm going to check Rpms today
The carburetor has a partially clogged idle or main jet. The governor is just trying to make the best of a dirty carb. I have a few Tecumseh carb videos up and yours should be virtually identical to the video below. Yours is just larger. Watch this video to repair it(look on my channel). Tecumseh Carb snowblower cleaning 1 of 2
it's surging,so i have to clean the carb again i guess. but what's the problem with the impossible idle ? Is it the air screw to adjust ? there is a screw for max rpm to limitate the butterfly opening and an other screw with only a quarter turn avaible for tuning ? It's the idle air screw ?
I have a Honda Harmony HRM215 plastic deck mower MZBB-6011398, starts and runs great, oil is coming out of the carburetor, leaking thru the air filter and then onto the deck. do you have any ideas on this. oil is only coming out of the carburetor. Thanks George Your Video's are great, Keep up the good work.
George Edwards The most common reason oil will come out of pvc tube and into the breather is that the oil is too thin. This can be due to: gas in the oil, not using the correct oil weight, or the oil has broken down with heat. I recommend an oil change with straight SAE 30 motor oil(non-synthetic) and your troubles should be gone.
I assume when you adjust the throttle control from the drivers seat it does nothing. You can try to adjust it like I show in the video at about 3:00. Reference where it is and rotate the shaft in the rod.
THE MAN IS SHOWING YOU HOW TO DO IT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO OPEN THE BOTTOM OFF THE MOTOR LOOK AT THE VIDEO AGAIN WHERE HE DRAW THE LINE ON HIS FINGER THAT'S WHER YOU CAN GO AND ADJUST IT.I JUST REPLACE THE PISTON ON MY 6.0 BRIGGS. HAVING HIGH RPM NOW WITH RE ADJUSTMENT DID IT.IN FEW DAYS I WILL PUT MY VIDEO OUT
The rpm should stay the same under load or without a load (thats the job of the governor). Now if the rpm is slower than it should be and there isn't a difference between idle and fast then it sounds like an adjustment issue. Your engine should be running at 3400-3600 rpm. Now with that said, over revving it will give you more power-pressure but you run the risk of damaging the engine. I would watch the gov and start the engine to see if it moves.
Don't know if you're still answering but... My pw's have always sounded like they're 'working' when water is released to actually power wash. Tone deepens, and lightens when the handle is released. Aren't they supposed to sound different as the pump comes on and off? Anyone? Thanks!
@@RICDirector That's exactly what it's supposed to do. When you pull the trigger the pressure washer unloaded valve closes and the pump is "turned on" and puts the full load on the engine. Releasing the trigger does just the opposite and puts the pump in standby/off mode.
3,600 RPM is too high; too much heat, too much unneeded power. Lawn mower type engines should run at lower speeds (and loads), with less heat because they don't have cooling systems. 2,600-2,800 is usauly good. But 2,400-2,500 is better if less power is required. It's okay to briefly "serge" up to 3,600 is power is suddenly needed, but this doesn't happen on mowers. Most mowers are governed at 2,800 but HP specs are taken at full throttle (3,600ish RPM) Great, helpful video! (besides RPM facts)
Hi. I need help... I have a honda hrx 357 from 2005. The mower can't stay at idle and die as soon as i use the "turtle mode" At "rabbit mode" it 's surging. i've changed the sparkplug and air filter because there were cracked/dirty. i've cleaned the carb (main jet was not clogged,needle and seat were ok float too. carb gaskets are ok too The tension spring of the governor is useless on mine there is zero tension,it's always floating (?) it is on the lower hole (your's is in the upper hole)
Hello my friend. Great video. I was wondering if you could advise me how on how to fit the throttle cable onto the engine. The cable I have has got a small cylindrical lump on the end. Do I need to cut this off as it is too bit to go through the hole. ANd how do you attach the wire from underneath?? Any help would be really appreciated.
I have a Honda service manual and it states 3000 +/- 150 RPM as top, no load RPM. It is the same engine as in your video. Even Briggs Intek/Quantum engines and Toro's both stipulate around 3000 RPM as the top, no load governed speed. That is the procedure for adjusting.
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Thanks for posting this video. I had my mower serviced at a local small engine repair shop and the guy obviously didn't know what he was doing. The engine was over-revving when I got it back and I didn't want to take it back to him. Your video was very helpful getting the governor adjusted correctly to bring the rpm's back to normal. Boy, that adjustment is really sensitive though, isn't it? The slightest adjustment makes a big difference! Thanks a million!
The engine's load is always changing so they use a governor. In a car you are the governor and constantly modify rpm; Once you reach a certain speed-rpm you barely press the throttle to maintain it. At the same speed-rpm if you begin to go uphill the load increases and you have to push the throttle further to maintain the same speed. Now once you go down hill you let completely off to maintain the same speed. RPM is governed by the operator. The governor on a Briggs does all this automatically.
great explanation thank you
Thanks, I just fixed one really old Briggs&Stratton machine and I was wondering how governor internals work. Didn't need to disassemble the engine, but it bothered me how linkage actuation was gone. I was expecting centrifugal type actuation and seems like I imagined it almost spot on, but didn't know about that internal lever. Thanks for the video 👍
Honda sets their mowers at lower rpm than most to keep the sound levels to a minimum. The engines they use are designed to run faster and can easily and safely do so. Blade tip speed is what cuts grass nice, so higher rpms is a good thing. Your governor arm could have slipped and that will lower your rpms a fair amount. I would mark the spot that it is now and adjust the arm (a tiny bit) like I show to increase your rpms.
THANK YOU .... for the comment that surging, hunting is a dirty carb. I adjusted the spring 7 times.
then watched your video. I cleaned my carb and the surging / hunting turning into smooth running.
THANK YOU.
Great. I'm glad this helped.
Hey thanks man for the reply. You are right sometimes the motor sounds like its gonna stall. The GCV160 is a very good work hourse of a motor. I did mess around with the governor today and got the rpms up to about 2600. I quickly reset it back to 1800 because the motor was louder. I think i will mess around with it a little more tomorrow. Thank you for your help!
Great video... By far the most straight forward explanation from the governor/ throttle relationship I’ve seen. I have a high revving Honda mower. Trying your adjustments tomorrow. Thanks
Most of the time a high revving engine is simply the throttle butterfly on the carburetor sticking open
Nice... Most people when they have a hard time understanding something ask questions. But I guess criticizing someone, who is trying to teach them makes them superior. I guess you taught me.
Well explained so that even I can understand a difficult concept. I cleaned my carb and put it back (Crafts. Eager 1) and just runs for 1 second and quits. Well the governor linkage spring was too stretched so the throttle was always closed. I changed the carb, cleaned the old and put back, took the bowl off again, recleaned the main jet, changed the gas, cleaned the tank, etc. What a nightmare because I didn't understand what was going on.
On a Kohler Courage 17HP engine, rotate the governor cross shaft (shaft) COUNTERCLOCKWISE as you view the end of the shaft to hold it against the governor pin, and tighten the governor assembly lever onto the shaft with the carburetor throttle valve wide open.
Sincerely,
David Parker
.... continued... small engines should run around 3400rpm and max at 3600. I repair engines for a living and take great pride in lawn quality. You get a better cleaner cut from a mower running closer to 3600rpm than 2900-3000.
You are correct with the Honda service manual I have the same manuals. I am not arguing with that. If you look at the individual specs for the engines they are almost all rated at 3600 rpm max (some at 4000). Honda specs that the rpm be lower on newer mowers to reduce emissions and lower the sound. If you want the best performance/ most hp out of your engine they are safely rated to run at 3600 max(no load). This is one of the first Honda mowers that I have had to adjust.
Continued: I have tested at least a dozen others and they all have been set from the factory at around 3400-3500rpm. This is the first one that has been set this low. It made a HUGE difference in performance in cutting a lawn.
Yes it does. Our new mower with gcv 160 did hardly 2000 rpm! There was just no suction and did bog down a lot.
Awesome. Can't thank you enough! My brain was swimming (not that it doesn't take that much for that to happen.)
I haven't used the mower since we got a rider last year. I took apart the carb, cleaned it out and hit all the jets with a copper wire. The filter was looking pretty dirty so I bought a new one. Moved the gov, it was around 4k, but ran out of time to fine tune it. I'll post my results after I get it finished.
Thank you for the informations.
I've tried to adjust the governor during and hour and a half,it's really really really sensible.
now it's like before i touched it or radically way higher, screaming.
Without the rpm meter i don't want to touch it.
The mower belongs to a grandma i'm helping i can't take a risk.
At least it's starting and working now.
Thank you again. : )
Greets from France.
Done right! Others advocate bending arms. Personally I've changed spring location or spring weight to achieve differing RPM's. You did comment that the adjustments are very slight - "tiny" was the word you used. And yes, it IS a tiny change. Easy enough to get it way out of whack for someone who isn't quite as mechanically skilled. I'd advocate for changing springs. OR make adjustments with the governor arm linkages all disconnected and the arm swung to its furthest most position only limited by the internal mechanisms and loosen the shaft tensioning nut and make slight adjustments by moving the arm and not the shaft.
My Honda Engine is similar but behind that arm is a small lever that is the idle control for mine. Mine was initially really low and then I loosened the nut and it went crazy high. I finally figured out to slide the lever toward the front of the mower and then tighten that nut back up.
Great Video, had I seen this before I tried screwing with my Honda Pressure Washer, it would have saved me a trip to the parts store for a spring I thought I could stretch and tighten. Thanks for your time and effort on this, also saved me a trip to the repair shop for my unit.
Awesome.. Glad it helped.
ok.
I've watched the two sets of vids you made.
I will clean the carb tomorrow.
I've messed with the governor set up but once the carb clean i will put it back like it was.
The tension spring set up is weird however, completly useless on my engine.
Thank you for your help : )
Saved me a few quid getting my mower repaired quick and easy after watching the instructions thank.
Thanks for the response! Makes perfect sense and I agree 100%....it's just that my engine sounded like it was way over revving but I countered the idle jet back a little and it sounds a lot better. Either way I just ordered a tach/hour online and as soon as it gets here I will dial in rpms to 3400 -3600. Greatly appreciate the input!
cont: In the commercial mowing industry they run their blades at the fastest the government will allow(yes they even regulate this).
To sum up. 3600 will give you more horse power and cut the grass nicer.
An engine that dies when the blade is engaged generally means carb issues. It could be as simple as a dirty air filter or a partially clogged main jet.
You could probably do it by ear pretty good. Remove the chain so you can full rev the engine and hear what it sounds like. Then mark exactly where everything is so you can put it back if you run into trouble. Adjust the governor and restart the engine and rev it. You just want it to sound faster. I little adjusting goes along way. Even race engines will have a rev limiter to prevent the engine from exceeding a certain RPM and self destructing, that's all your doing.
First I would check for a bad air filter. Generally that will cause reduced power and black smoke. Try running it for a minute without a filter to test. A wrong hole in the linkage will also cause lag. Mark the spot it is in now and try moving it one spot over.
Shit hot mate, four years my ride on has sat in the garage (when it's at temp, it revs and idles, revs and idles) now I know whats wrong. Thanks from the UK
This was an excellent video - it saved me the time of taking apart my engine to see how the governor works. Thanks for posting it.
Sorry for the late reply. It is winter here now in Australia and the grass
is not growing much at all so I have not used the lawn mower lately.
I checked the air filter and it was filthy, I have ordered some new filters
from ebay, when they arrive I will install one and give it a try.
Thanks for your advice, I will let you know how it goes when the grass
starts to grow and I can test it out under load.
@justinml11.... All these small engine made by Briggs and Stratton, Honda, Tecumseh, Kohler, etc are 3600rpm or less. They can be made to handle higher rpms but it requires billet rods, flywheels, forged crankshafts, ect. Pretty much everything internally has to be replaced. It is 10 times cheaper to change the gear ratio if you want your go cart/mini bike to go faster. Good Luck.
If the engine shuts off at 1/2 or less throttle I would adjust the idle screw on the very top of the carb. It is probably set out too far. Turn it in Clockwise a turn or so at a time and run the engine. This screw is what ultimately sets your low idle speed. Once your able to get it to run at idle then you can actually back it out until it idles exactly where you want.
The government maximum mower blade tip speed is limited to 19,000 Feet Per Minute. That means a 21" blade is limited to about 3456 RPM. Now if you have a 20" blade, you can easily run it at 3600 for best performance. Riding Mowers where the blade is run by a belt, the gear ratio is changed to get he maximum FPM out of the blade at the engines 3600rpm. With several 18" blades they raise the gear ratio to spin them at around 4000 rpm(3400-3600 engine rpm) to keep within the 19000FPM limit.
Thank you! That was a good overall explanation of governors in general.
@classicoutboards .. Good. This tells us that the butterfly is working properly. You will need to adjust the governor further. It is a VERY sensitive instrument. Looking at the governor arm determine which way closes the throttle. If moving it in a counter clockwise direction closes the throttle butterfly/reduces rpm then you need the rotate the governor shaft coming out of the block clockwise in the governor arm to reduce the throttle. Let me know how you make out.
Another way to "reset" them is to loosen the crimp nut, hold the arm all the way to the right, turn the shaft in the middle all the way to the right while holding the arm to the full right position. Tighten the nut down while everything is at the full right position and you're done with it. Done it many times this way. Works at the factory setting that way.
1972FordF150 , Having removed the carb for cleaning after reassembly I found that the motor would only run at full tilt on either the Rabbit or Tortoise position, I followed your instructions and it's now perfect. Also a big thanks to sixtyfiveford for the video which gave me a better understanding of the workings of the governor.
Chris Marsh I
That’s okay providing the Carb, linkage has not been changed by bending stretching E tcetra Loosen off the nut yes but first mark the position with a tipex White mark then you can adjust it either left or right one notch at a time re clamping each time until you have the required R P M But you say all the way to the right ??, So you want them to disconnect your springs ?? not a good idea for the average Joe and all the way to where ????till it touches some other part of the engine ??? its not on test bed where these things are set up ??? and with age the R P M will slow down
thanks man
By removing it will allow you to get engine to higher rpms. The problem with this is the engine will be put at risk of throwing a rod, damaging valve train, oil starvation, over heating, cam failing, etc at higher rpms. I would suggest setting the governor to allow you to run at higher rpms.. Like 4000 rpm vs the stock 3400-3600prms. This will give you a little more but you limit the risk of blowing up your engine. People think it is a magical device that limits there hp but its not...
You might get more HP out of a higher revving mower but the most torque is generated at a lower RPM. I have installed a new throttle cable on a neighbor's older Honda mower and it stipulates 3000 RPM. Two Toros I have with a 4 cycle Suzuki OVH both stipulate 3000 RPM and those are all older mowers (late 80s).
I did this today and it works just fine. I kinda know how to do it. Now i know how to do it. This was a big help.
That is the rpm recommended under full load. If you actually left it at 3060 it would drop to 2500-2700rpm under full load. Performance is severely compromised at that rpm. These engines are rated at 3600 rpm.
Thanks very much. Now I understand how the governor works, I can fix my old Honda. It's 24 years old and has never needed any attention up to now.
It's your idle circuit in the carb that is causing the surging. Ebay has new carbs for around 20 bucks or you can attack it again.
The carb can't maintain a set rpm because there is no or too little gas flowing through the idle circuit and it has to keep opening the main butterfly to get more gas. The engine then revs to the rpm it should be and the governor closes the carb butterfly and the cycle repeats.
thanks buddy, I have been a mechanic since I was a kid... now I got a paper that says I know what I am doing! I never knew how the governor worked on a lawnmower, I knew it controlled rpm, I just wasnt sure how. I will be sure to check my rpm because it does seem to rev pretty low.... I wanna get me one of those sweet gauges you got there, then I could tell how long I have to perform different services.
+codemiesterbeats Yeah, it is nice have an hour meter on machines. It gives you a great idea how much the actually get used and when to service them.
When you make these videos you should have light at the back of you to illuminate your work so we can all see what it is that you are working with. Everything you are working with is dark compared to the background sunlight. If the sunlight were directly on these dark parts we could see how they work together.
Spending the time to explain you deserve all the likes and more
hi
i've cleaned up the carb like you showed in the vid.
the mower is working now.
it's not perfect because the idle is low and it tend to die after a bit.
The max rpm is quite low too and was yet, before i touch the governor.
i can mow under load at least.
Thank you for your help.
Yes, there was also air vane governors used on old Briggs and Stratton. I have never seen one of those go off or go bad.
Air Vane Governors:
The flywheel is also a fan and creates air flow. The air flow pushes on a tab (air vane) and it in turns pushes on the throttle. A spring holds it back. The faster the engine moves the more air flow and the harder it pushes on the air vane(closes the throttle). When the engine slows the spring pulls harder (opens the throttle). Delicate balance.
@justinml11 They are built to handle higher engine rpm's. These small engines are only manufactured to handle 3600 rpms. If you want to go faster you need to change the gear ratio. A larger sprocket on the engine or a smaller sprocket on the axle will raise the gear ratio and give the machine a higher speed.
I love governor videos. I think of the old ones on the steam tractors with the ball weights. same thing as the internal ones here. Hey you are looking clean cut in this vid!!!
Bruce Pender Yeah, this video has been around for a couple years and no beard then. Governors are a mysterious thing to people but they are so simple.
sixtyfiveford I hope you don't mind I just did a vid on the 6.5HP Briggs Intek. governor. I had two come in before and then just after I commented on your video. Things are so weird how they happen. My first one was my 8-32 snow-blower (Tecumseh)
Thanks you are right. I still get nervous in front of the camera and my brain goes blank
+Makek0086 It is a RPM maintaining devise. It maintains RPM weather it tries to go to high or to low.
the discussion continues.Thx 65
I never said it wouldn't cut or do a job I am just saying it cuts better at higher rpm. I have used every brand of mower out there and they all cut better, have better mulching abilities and bag better at rpms closer to the engines max rated ability. The shearing action of a mower rips grass at slower rpms and leaves brown grass tips. Yes a sharp blade helps but most people don't sharpen their blade 2-3 times a season like it needs but rather every couple years.
The engine itself is designed to run at a constant 3600 rpm safely. They use this engine on various equipment and on most 3600 is required. Honda however has their mowers set a lower rpm for several reasons: sound level and overall engine life. The engine will last longer at 3100rpm vs 3600 but you also does significantly less work at 3100 rpm. The technique mowers use in cutting grass give a better cut the faster the blade spins. The faster the blade spins the faster you can walk with the mower
Exactly... rated UP TO 3600 RPM but it does not stipulate to adjust the governed speed at 3600 RPM. 2500 RPM is peak torque and 3600 RPM is peak horsepower so to get the best of both worlds, 3000 RPM is the typical standard for governed speed.
This is the most complete video I saw on this topic, thanks a lot, this does help me.
(very kind remark to help: your video would be easier to see if you avoid to have high level of light in the back, as this makes a lot of shades on the interesting parts of your tuto)
Thank you for this video, finally I have got some understanding of how the governor works and what it does
Thanks, I'm glad it was helpful.
I would of left it at around 3k for better fuel, I mow my mothers yard and it use to take about 1 and 1/2 refills to finish it and I adjusted mine by ear down to prob around 2.5k and I can do her whole yard in just under 1 take full... not that much difference one mite think but when your hot and almost got it done and don't wanna have to stop to refill the gas in the home stretch its very nice to me.
Yeah, they are super sensitive. It was nice meeting you.
Thank you, just got my new Honda, 2,500 RPM, I’ll be raising it to 32....33
@sixtyfiveford OK, I manually operated the governor arm with the motor running and decreased the engine speed to idle, let go, and it does indeed over rev.
Governors are virtually bullet proof. Your engine is surging/slapping because the idle passage on your carb is clogged. The carb can't maintain rpm because of to little gas flow through the idle circuit and has to keep opening the main butterfly to get more gas. The engine then revs to where is should be and the governor closes the carb butterfly and the cycle repeats. "IF" your carb has an adjustable idle jet screw it out 1/4 turn at a time until it smooths out.
Thanks for the video and helping me understand the operation of the governor. I have a Honda gc160 on a pressure washer. The engine runs just great except the rpm's don't increase when under a load.however when i advance the governor control manually the rpm's increase as well as the water pressure. I'm thinking it's a governor problem but I am wondering if it is an adjustment issue or a replacement issue. thanks again
@sixtyfiveford I got it figured out, the linkage going from the carb to the governor arm is messed up, along with the wrong governor spring being installed. I also tweaked the throttle lever to reduce the initial tension on the governor arm and now it seems to not be over reving
Thanks for responding, I'll try and get that device you have, to check the rpm then adjust it a little higher than stock. Thanks again
Good info mate. Cheers. The thing i always wonder is why run a governor and just connect the throttle straight up to the carb and limit it with a stopper screw or butterfly stop to avoid it over reving??? The more load you put on the engine just crank up ya throttle. Obviously there will only be a max throttle speed of 3600rpms that can be obtained though. Just a thought. Cheers for the info again though champ. Been working on alot of old briggs engines lately all with governors.
With the engine off the governor will move freely. With the engine running if you force it to slow down the governor arm will pull and be forcing the carb to open up and run faster. Once you let it go it will return to faster operation. What kind of engine is it?
I know this is a old video but it is helping me out today
I mainly needed to see the orientation of a few springs on governor and this helped
This is great. Explained everything I was looking for a the way to showing inside the engine, thanks!
There's a Kohler video that shows it all. On TH-cam just came up on mine the other day.
The narration is in mechanic language but the cutaways and parts coloring is good views.
They show how the lever and the flyweights and pin work inside.
😂 that's a first for me and I like it lòlól.
The diagram gloves were epic! Much appreciated info, well done video, good info explained well. Thanks man! 👍
@justinml11 ....No 3600 is MAX. Any faster and the engine will blow up by throwing a rod. Yes when the engine is off the generally the throttle plate is wide open.
Thanks for the quick reply! I cleaned it out again the other night but it was late so I couldn't run it .. I ran it last night and it seems fine. So yeah, it was the carb!
@seapeddler It is called a "Tiny Tach" and they are available online everywhere. No the governor gear is not in time with any other gears. It can be in any position when installed.
Adjusting the governor just ensures the butterfly opens and closes properly. The high/ low engine speed is controlled by the adjusting screws
yeah I agree never mess with the governor unless you have to with an rpm meter and that's only if you are really sure of yourself about messing with it, if not best take it to your dealer and have them adjust it.
All snowblower engines should run at 3400-3600rpm. The other comments are about lawn mowers that have mower blade tip speed regulations that they are trying to conform to.
The carb is fine. I pulled it and checked it and cleaned it. I checked the intake tube too. Of all the rebuilds and repairs I've done, this One has me stumped.
Yeah, when they blow usually they are 4500+ rpm. They work great but not for long.
Hi I have a HRR2162SDA Honda lawn mower that is probably six or more years old. The lawn mower is running very high. I unscrewed the bolt on the governor and tried adjusting it, but the it wont turn at all. where you grab with the plyers it looks like a half moon. its different than the one in this video and it has a pin behind the governor arm. Thanks
Thank you, most likely the then the rpm is too slow since the water pressure is not what it was before. I will check the governor movement like you suggested and go from there, thanks again
The idle screw is virtually pointless and won't give you what you need. You need to pull the idle jet (directly below the idle speed screw) and clean it and the passage down into the carb bowl.
It is very unlikely that you governor system is to blame unless it has been messed with and put back together incorrectly. With the engine off and the throttle lever set to rabbit the spring should pull the main butterfly open. At turtle there should be little to no spring tension.
If you want the same style tachometer I use I put a link in the description.
Thanks for watching. I do respectfully disagree with you though. Most mowers are set around 2900-3100 because of blade tip speeds regulations and decibel regulations. These engines are ran in numerous other applications and governed to run at 3400-3600rpm (pressure washers, log splitters, commercial applications, etc). They will actually cool very will with the built in cooling fan on all these small engines at 3600rpm. Lets agree to disagree :)
Most cables for small engine are solid wire. It sounds like you have a bicycle type braided cable. I wish I could help more, but you are going to have to get innovative.
Nevermind, i found the answer when i looked at the link. Thanks for a great video!
Thanks. I appreciate your videos. But if you will remember to keep the light (or window) behind the camera instead of behind the subject (you and your workpiece), it will be much more effective. The light is closing the aperture of the camera. It should be shining on the subject, not the camera lens. Thanks again.
I have no doubt you could crack it open and replace the small watch battery. I have had this little unit for 8 years and another on that is over 10-12 years old that haven't needed a battery for either. Nor does the display look dim like the battery is getting weak.
Great video sixtyfiveford. I have a couple questions, my riding lawn mower (Murray) has a 13.5 hp engine and I watch the govenor fluctuates, which means the throttle reves up and down. How can I regulate the govenor from reving up and down? Also, I disconected the lead at the bottom of the carburator float and it runs fine once in awhile. How do I adjust the fluctuation of the reving of the govenor? Thanks again for your video. Very informative.
Snownblower 2-stroke Tecumseh engine Hsk-600 its now
eight years later I Just put in a New Motor
haha started it Yesterday but I'm worried about the RPMS - the motors running a little Jumpy - The motor is new but probably sat in a box for years so this Video help me w the rpms I already blew up one motor read other post so I'm little worried
about running it, whats normal whats not?
I'm going to check Rpms today
Idling fast is your idle speed screw on the top of the carb. Turn it counter clockwise to lower the idle rpm.
Is there a reason why you are looking at the governor? What is the engine doing that concerns you?
very good video
i have a honda gsv 190 , similar engine
that no high speed and if i move the throttle lever to idle it stalls
Thanks!!!! You saved me alot of time and money, I was about to go buy another $300 lawnmower. Keep it up.
The carburetor has a partially clogged idle or main jet. The governor is just trying to make the best of a dirty carb. I have a few Tecumseh carb videos up and yours should be virtually identical to the video below. Yours is just larger.
Watch this video to repair it(look on my channel).
Tecumseh Carb snowblower cleaning 1 of 2
it's surging,so i have to clean the carb again i guess.
but what's the problem with the impossible idle ?
Is it the air screw to adjust ?
there is a screw for max rpm to limitate the butterfly opening and an other screw with only a quarter turn avaible for tuning ?
It's the idle air screw ?
Yeah, those are simple and work very well.
I have a Honda Harmony HRM215 plastic deck mower MZBB-6011398, starts and runs great, oil is coming out of the carburetor, leaking thru the air filter and then onto the deck. do you have any ideas on this. oil is only coming out of the carburetor. Thanks George Your Video's are great, Keep up the good work.
George Edwards The most common reason oil will come out of pvc tube and into the breather is that the oil is too thin. This can be due to: gas in the oil, not using the correct oil weight, or the oil has broken down with heat. I recommend an oil change with straight SAE 30 motor oil(non-synthetic) and your troubles should be gone.
I assume when you adjust the throttle control from the drivers seat it does nothing. You can try to adjust it like I show in the video at about 3:00. Reference where it is and rotate the shaft in the rod.
THE MAN IS SHOWING YOU HOW TO DO IT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO OPEN THE BOTTOM OFF THE MOTOR LOOK AT THE VIDEO AGAIN WHERE HE DRAW THE LINE ON HIS FINGER THAT'S WHER YOU CAN GO AND ADJUST IT.I JUST REPLACE THE PISTON ON MY 6.0 BRIGGS. HAVING HIGH RPM NOW WITH RE ADJUSTMENT DID IT.IN FEW DAYS I WILL PUT MY VIDEO OUT
The rpm should stay the same under load or without a load (thats the job of the governor). Now if the rpm is slower than it should be and there isn't a difference between idle and fast then it sounds like an adjustment issue. Your engine should be running at 3400-3600 rpm. Now with that said, over revving it will give you more power-pressure but you run the risk of damaging the engine. I would watch the gov and start the engine to see if it moves.
Don't know if you're still answering but...
My pw's have always sounded like they're 'working' when water is released to actually power wash. Tone deepens, and lightens when the handle is released.
Aren't they supposed to sound different as the pump comes on and off?
Anyone? Thanks!
@@RICDirector That's exactly what it's supposed to do. When you pull the trigger the pressure washer unloaded valve closes and the pump is "turned on" and puts the full load on the engine. Releasing the trigger does just the opposite and puts the pump in standby/off mode.
No I am just wondering what problem you are trying to fix. Was the engine over revving, surging, lacks power or?
3,600 RPM is too high; too much heat, too much unneeded power. Lawn mower type engines should run at lower speeds (and loads), with less heat because they don't have cooling systems. 2,600-2,800 is usauly good. But 2,400-2,500 is better if less power is required. It's okay to briefly "serge" up to 3,600 is power is suddenly needed, but this doesn't happen on mowers. Most mowers are governed at 2,800 but HP specs are taken at full throttle (3,600ish RPM)
Great, helpful video! (besides RPM facts)
Hi.
I need help...
I have a honda hrx 357 from 2005.
The mower can't stay at idle and die as soon as i use the "turtle mode"
At "rabbit mode" it 's surging.
i've changed the sparkplug and air filter because there were cracked/dirty.
i've cleaned the carb (main jet was not clogged,needle and seat were ok float too.
carb gaskets are ok too
The tension spring of the governor is useless on mine there is zero tension,it's always floating (?)
it is on the lower hole (your's is in the upper hole)
Thanks for info...ITS amazing really...still trying to figure it out...this helps alot
Hey Thanks. I'm glad you liked it.
Hello my friend. Great video. I was wondering if you could advise me how on how to fit the throttle cable onto the engine. The cable I have has got a small cylindrical lump on the end. Do I need to cut this off as it is too bit to go through the hole. ANd how do you attach the wire from underneath?? Any help would be really appreciated.
I have a Honda service manual and it states 3000 +/- 150 RPM as top, no load RPM. It is the same engine as in your video. Even Briggs Intek/Quantum engines and Toro's both stipulate around 3000 RPM as the top, no load governed speed. That is the procedure for adjusting.