The engine's load is always changing so they use a governor. In a car you are the governor and constantly modify rpm; Once you reach a certain speed-rpm you barely press the throttle to maintain it. At the same speed-rpm if you begin to go uphill the load increases and you have to push the throttle further to maintain the same speed. Now once you go down hill you let completely off to maintain the same speed. RPM is governed by the operator. The governor on a Briggs does all this automatically.
Honda sets their mowers at lower rpm than most to keep the sound levels to a minimum. The engines they use are designed to run faster and can easily and safely do so. Blade tip speed is what cuts grass nice, so higher rpms is a good thing. Your governor arm could have slipped and that will lower your rpms a fair amount. I would mark the spot that it is now and adjust the arm (a tiny bit) like I show to increase your rpms.
3060 RPM is not too slow. The Honda service manual recommends 3000 RPM+150 so 3060 is within tolerance. Setting it to 3560 in your video is too high. I can tell just from listening to it.
Thanks for watching. I do respectfully disagree with you though. Most mowers are set around 2900-3100 because of blade tip speeds regulations and decibel regulations. These engines are ran in numerous other applications and governed to run at 3400-3600rpm (pressure washers, log splitters, commercial applications, etc). They will actually cool very will with the built in cooling fan on all these small engines at 3600rpm. Lets agree to disagree :)
.... continued... small engines should run around 3400rpm and max at 3600. I repair engines for a living and take great pride in lawn quality. You get a better cleaner cut from a mower running closer to 3600rpm than 2900-3000.
Sorry but that's not how you adjust a governor you set the arm all the way too full and what u do is adjust the spring tension if you tighten the spring it will increase rpm and if you loosen the spring it will decrease rpm. If you try to adjust it on the shaft, it will work and you can get the engine to run at the right rpm but the governor will not open up up the throttle correctly and you will lose power.
Nice... Most people when they have a hard time understanding something ask questions. But I guess criticizing someone, who is trying to teach them makes them superior. I guess you taught me.
That is the rpm recommended under full load. If you actually left it at 3060 it would drop to 2500-2700rpm under full load. Performance is severely compromised at that rpm. These engines are rated at 3600 rpm.
You could probably do it by ear pretty good. Remove the chain so you can full rev the engine and hear what it sounds like. Then mark exactly where everything is so you can put it back if you run into trouble. Adjust the governor and restart the engine and rev it. You just want it to sound faster. I little adjusting goes along way. Even race engines will have a rev limiter to prevent the engine from exceeding a certain RPM and self destructing, that's all your doing.
I would of left it at around 3k for better fuel, I mow my mothers yard and it use to take about 1 and 1/2 refills to finish it and I adjusted mine by ear down to prob around 2.5k and I can do her whole yard in just under 1 take full... not that much difference one mite think but when your hot and almost got it done and don't wanna have to stop to refill the gas in the home stretch its very nice to me.
The government maximum mower blade tip speed is limited to 19,000 Feet Per Minute. That means a 21" blade is limited to about 3456 RPM. Now if you have a 20" blade, you can easily run it at 3600 for best performance. Riding Mowers where the blade is run by a belt, the gear ratio is changed to get he maximum FPM out of the blade at the engines 3600rpm. With several 18" blades they raise the gear ratio to spin them at around 4000 rpm(3400-3600 engine rpm) to keep within the 19000FPM limit.
@justinml11.... All these small engine made by Briggs and Stratton, Honda, Tecumseh, Kohler, etc are 3600rpm or less. They can be made to handle higher rpms but it requires billet rods, flywheels, forged crankshafts, ect. Pretty much everything internally has to be replaced. It is 10 times cheaper to change the gear ratio if you want your go cart/mini bike to go faster. Good Luck.
If the engine shuts off at 1/2 or less throttle I would adjust the idle screw on the very top of the carb. It is probably set out too far. Turn it in Clockwise a turn or so at a time and run the engine. This screw is what ultimately sets your low idle speed. Once your able to get it to run at idle then you can actually back it out until it idles exactly where you want.
On a Kohler Courage 17HP engine, rotate the governor cross shaft (shaft) COUNTERCLOCKWISE as you view the end of the shaft to hold it against the governor pin, and tighten the governor assembly lever onto the shaft with the carburetor throttle valve wide open. Sincerely, David Parker
Continued: I have tested at least a dozen others and they all have been set from the factory at around 3400-3500rpm. This is the first one that has been set this low. It made a HUGE difference in performance in cutting a lawn.
Thanks for posting this video. I had my mower serviced at a local small engine repair shop and the guy obviously didn't know what he was doing. The engine was over-revving when I got it back and I didn't want to take it back to him. Your video was very helpful getting the governor adjusted correctly to bring the rpm's back to normal. Boy, that adjustment is really sensitive though, isn't it? The slightest adjustment makes a big difference! Thanks a million!
Hi. I need help... I have a honda hrx 357 from 2005. The mower can't stay at idle and die as soon as i use the "turtle mode" At "rabbit mode" it 's surging. i've changed the sparkplug and air filter because there were cracked/dirty. i've cleaned the carb (main jet was not clogged,needle and seat were ok float too. carb gaskets are ok too The tension spring of the governor is useless on mine there is zero tension,it's always floating (?) it is on the lower hole (your's is in the upper hole)
You are very miss-informed. RPM is regulated by government blade tip speeds on walk behind lawn mowers. Most of these engines are rated at 3600rpm max but used on a walk behind mower they are limited to around 2500-3400 depending on mfg and blade length. Riding mowers are all around 3400 and have nothing to do with horsepower. I'm sorry but, belt tension, blade weight and horsepower have nothing to do with rpm.
When you make these videos you should have light at the back of you to illuminate your work so we can all see what it is that you are working with. Everything you are working with is dark compared to the background sunlight. If the sunlight were directly on these dark parts we could see how they work together.
it's surging,so i have to clean the carb again i guess. but what's the problem with the impossible idle ? Is it the air screw to adjust ? there is a screw for max rpm to limitate the butterfly opening and an other screw with only a quarter turn avaible for tuning ? It's the idle air screw ?
I never said it wouldn't cut or do a job I am just saying it cuts better at higher rpm. I have used every brand of mower out there and they all cut better, have better mulching abilities and bag better at rpms closer to the engines max rated ability. The shearing action of a mower rips grass at slower rpms and leaves brown grass tips. Yes a sharp blade helps but most people don't sharpen their blade 2-3 times a season like it needs but rather every couple years.
I feel your grief. They get a pretty bad rap because they are blamed for a lot of problems that aren't their fault. The majority of carb related problems are blamed on the governor system. They are actually a very reliable system that is to blame for engine troubles less than 1% of the time. What engine are you having trouble with?
Sounds like your idle circuit is clogged. This will cause high rpm surging and no idle. You can view a complete carb video for your machine on my channel "Honda gc160 gc190 carb rebuild gcv160"
If you look at the engines alone at engines . honda . com and look at the engine specs. gcv160 and gcv190 that are in home owners mowers you will notice the performance curve says these engines are rated to go up to 3600rpm. Torque is peak at around 2500rpm. These speed rip grass and damage the roots. Torque is great to pull a tree stump. Horse Power get a job done faster. Honda does the slower rpm so it is quieter as people donate loud with poorly built. I say in my video that most are .....
hi i've cleaned up the carb like you showed in the vid. the mower is working now. it's not perfect because the idle is low and it tend to die after a bit. The max rpm is quite low too and was yet, before i touch the governor. i can mow under load at least. Thank you for your help.
I have no doubt you could crack it open and replace the small watch battery. I have had this little unit for 8 years and another on that is over 10-12 years old that haven't needed a battery for either. Nor does the display look dim like the battery is getting weak.
Governors are virtually bullet proof. Your engine is surging/slapping because the idle passage on your carb is clogged. The carb can't maintain rpm because of to little gas flow through the idle circuit and has to keep opening the main butterfly to get more gas. The engine then revs to where is should be and the governor closes the carb butterfly and the cycle repeats. "IF" your carb has an adjustable idle jet screw it out 1/4 turn at a time until it smooths out.
All snowblower engines should run at 3400-3600rpm. The other comments are about lawn mowers that have mower blade tip speed regulations that they are trying to conform to.
First I would check for a bad air filter. Generally that will cause reduced power and black smoke. Try running it for a minute without a filter to test. A wrong hole in the linkage will also cause lag. Mark the spot it is in now and try moving it one spot over.
Thanks, I just fixed one really old Briggs&Stratton machine and I was wondering how governor internals work. Didn't need to disassemble the engine, but it bothered me how linkage actuation was gone. I was expecting centrifugal type actuation and seems like I imagined it almost spot on, but didn't know about that internal lever. Thanks for the video 👍
@justinml11 They are built to handle higher engine rpm's. These small engines are only manufactured to handle 3600 rpms. If you want to go faster you need to change the gear ratio. A larger sprocket on the engine or a smaller sprocket on the axle will raise the gear ratio and give the machine a higher speed.
@justinml11 ....No 3600 is MAX. Any faster and the engine will blow up by throwing a rod. Yes when the engine is off the generally the throttle plate is wide open.
ok. I've watched the two sets of vids you made. I will clean the carb tomorrow. I've messed with the governor set up but once the carb clean i will put it back like it was. The tension spring set up is weird however, completly useless on my engine. Thank you for your help : )
Snownblower 2-stroke Tecumseh engine Hsk-600 its now eight years later I Just put in a New Motor haha started it Yesterday but I'm worried about the RPMS - the motors running a little Jumpy - The motor is new but probably sat in a box for years so this Video help me w the rpms I already blew up one motor read other post so I'm little worried about running it, whats normal whats not? I'm going to check Rpms today
TFP Video Ok Story about why people worry about the RPMS set to High, Watch out! I bought a Snownblowerit at a Garge sale, Haha the Governor Link was not hooked up or fell off & running it for the first time it Sounded fast, ok, I was thinking this must be normal lol, Wow this snowblower threw snow really far until it made a BIG BANG & Blew Up (20 min later) RPM set to high = New Motor
The carburetor has a partially clogged idle or main jet. The governor is just trying to make the best of a dirty carb. I have a few Tecumseh carb videos up and yours should be virtually identical to the video below. Yours is just larger. Watch this video to repair it(look on my channel). Tecumseh Carb snowblower cleaning 1 of 2
With the engine off the governor will move freely. With the engine running if you force it to slow down the governor arm will pull and be forcing the carb to open up and run faster. Once you let it go it will return to faster operation. What kind of engine is it?
By removing it will allow you to get engine to higher rpms. The problem with this is the engine will be put at risk of throwing a rod, damaging valve train, oil starvation, over heating, cam failing, etc at higher rpms. I would suggest setting the governor to allow you to run at higher rpms.. Like 4000 rpm vs the stock 3400-3600prms. This will give you a little more but you limit the risk of blowing up your engine. People think it is a magical device that limits there hp but its not...
Thanks. I appreciate your videos. But if you will remember to keep the light (or window) behind the camera instead of behind the subject (you and your workpiece), it will be much more effective. The light is closing the aperture of the camera. It should be shining on the subject, not the camera lens. Thanks again.
Great video... By far the most straight forward explanation from the governor/ throttle relationship I’ve seen. I have a high revving Honda mower. Trying your adjustments tomorrow. Thanks
You are correct with the Honda service manual I have the same manuals. I am not arguing with that. If you look at the individual specs for the engines they are almost all rated at 3600 rpm max (some at 4000). Honda specs that the rpm be lower on newer mowers to reduce emissions and lower the sound. If you want the best performance/ most hp out of your engine they are safely rated to run at 3600 max(no load). This is one of the first Honda mowers that I have had to adjust.
The idle screw is virtually pointless and won't give you what you need. You need to pull the idle jet (directly below the idle speed screw) and clean it and the passage down into the carb bowl. It is very unlikely that you governor system is to blame unless it has been messed with and put back together incorrectly. With the engine off and the throttle lever set to rabbit the spring should pull the main butterfly open. At turtle there should be little to no spring tension.
@classicoutboards .. Good. This tells us that the butterfly is working properly. You will need to adjust the governor further. It is a VERY sensitive instrument. Looking at the governor arm determine which way closes the throttle. If moving it in a counter clockwise direction closes the throttle butterfly/reduces rpm then you need the rotate the governor shaft coming out of the block clockwise in the governor arm to reduce the throttle. Let me know how you make out.
It's your idle circuit in the carb that is causing the surging. Ebay has new carbs for around 20 bucks or you can attack it again. The carb can't maintain a set rpm because there is no or too little gas flowing through the idle circuit and it has to keep opening the main butterfly to get more gas. The engine then revs to the rpm it should be and the governor closes the carb butterfly and the cycle repeats.
Thank you for the informations. I've tried to adjust the governor during and hour and a half,it's really really really sensible. now it's like before i touched it or radically way higher, screaming. Without the rpm meter i don't want to touch it. The mower belongs to a grandma i'm helping i can't take a risk. At least it's starting and working now. Thank you again. : ) Greets from France.
I assume when you adjust the throttle control from the drivers seat it does nothing. You can try to adjust it like I show in the video at about 3:00. Reference where it is and rotate the shaft in the rod.
3,600 RPM is too high; too much heat, too much unneeded power. Lawn mower type engines should run at lower speeds (and loads), with less heat because they don't have cooling systems. 2,600-2,800 is usauly good. But 2,400-2,500 is better if less power is required. It's okay to briefly "serge" up to 3,600 is power is suddenly needed, but this doesn't happen on mowers. Most mowers are governed at 2,800 but HP specs are taken at full throttle (3,600ish RPM) Great, helpful video! (besides RPM facts)
You might get more HP out of a higher revving mower but the most torque is generated at a lower RPM. I have installed a new throttle cable on a neighbor's older Honda mower and it stipulates 3000 RPM. Two Toros I have with a 4 cycle Suzuki OVH both stipulate 3000 RPM and those are all older mowers (late 80s).
Ok answerd that Q. so when i start the engine all i get is a HIGH Speed.I can move the gov arm by hand and it slows the engine down. but when i let it go it does nothing.if that gear was broken it wouldnt move at all, are it would move freely, right
Hey thanks man for the reply. You are right sometimes the motor sounds like its gonna stall. The GCV160 is a very good work hourse of a motor. I did mess around with the governor today and got the rpms up to about 2600. I quickly reset it back to 1800 because the motor was louder. I think i will mess around with it a little more tomorrow. Thank you for your help!
THANK YOU .... for the comment that surging, hunting is a dirty carb. I adjusted the spring 7 times. then watched your video. I cleaned my carb and the surging / hunting turning into smooth running. THANK YOU.
Well explained so that even I can understand a difficult concept. I cleaned my carb and put it back (Crafts. Eager 1) and just runs for 1 second and quits. Well the governor linkage spring was too stretched so the throttle was always closed. I changed the carb, cleaned the old and put back, took the bowl off again, recleaned the main jet, changed the gas, cleaned the tank, etc. What a nightmare because I didn't understand what was going on.
Most cables for small engine are solid wire. It sounds like you have a bicycle type braided cable. I wish I could help more, but you are going to have to get innovative.
Next Q how hard is it to replace the hole Governor.I would hate to have to tear down this engine..I'm not a mechanic So I do not have all the tools I would need
It is a tecumseh.17.5 enduro XL/C yes it moves freely when the engine is off.But when I start it up I watch the govenor arm and it doesnt do any thing.
When i adjust the govenor and tighten the bolt, my buterfly wont return and if i loosen the nut a little ,than my buterfly returns but if i start the motor than the rp its over the roof..(btw im ajusting without a tachometer because at this moment a dont have one) and if i tighten the nut so that my buterfly stays on the correct position , then i can't control my speed ..any suggestions ?
That happened to me one time and I found out the internal gear was broken. Check everything outside and it's still Rev-Up, more likely broken internal governor - gear - weight.
@@JodBronson thanks for the reply.. yes it was the internal govenor. But i was too afraid to fix it sinds you need to pull the motor apart.. so i sold it 😞
@@jimmysrandomness - If you are not comfortable fixing, that would be best. If you have push mowers, like in the video. They sell the engines at Harbor Freight for $99.00 on sale.
Great video sixtyfiveford. I have a couple questions, my riding lawn mower (Murray) has a 13.5 hp engine and I watch the govenor fluctuates, which means the throttle reves up and down. How can I regulate the govenor from reving up and down? Also, I disconected the lead at the bottom of the carburator float and it runs fine once in awhile. How do I adjust the fluctuation of the reving of the govenor? Thanks again for your video. Very informative.
@seapeddler It is called a "Tiny Tach" and they are available online everywhere. No the governor gear is not in time with any other gears. It can be in any position when installed.
Hi. We have parts that may fit your Honda engine. We're happy to offer you the product completely free of charge in exchange for a video review. Are you interested?
cont: In the commercial mowing industry they run their blades at the fastest the government will allow(yes they even regulate this). To sum up. 3600 will give you more horse power and cut the grass nicer. An engine that dies when the blade is engaged generally means carb issues. It could be as simple as a dirty air filter or a partially clogged main jet.
The idle speed is around 2800, so I'm going to fix that tonight. The clutch plate is in good shape. Compared it to a new one. Is there a down-side to setting the governor at 3600? Of course, any repair I attempt is at my risk and you are not liable even if you say, 10k? Sure, why not? ;P Sorry for the friggin' novel! -Rusto
Thanks for the video and helping me understand the operation of the governor. I have a Honda gc160 on a pressure washer. The engine runs just great except the rpm's don't increase when under a load.however when i advance the governor control manually the rpm's increase as well as the water pressure. I'm thinking it's a governor problem but I am wondering if it is an adjustment issue or a replacement issue. thanks again
The engine itself is designed to run at a constant 3600 rpm safely. They use this engine on various equipment and on most 3600 is required. Honda however has their mowers set a lower rpm for several reasons: sound level and overall engine life. The engine will last longer at 3100rpm vs 3600 but you also does significantly less work at 3100 rpm. The technique mowers use in cutting grass give a better cut the faster the blade spins. The faster the blade spins the faster you can walk with the mower
Shit hot mate, four years my ride on has sat in the garage (when it's at temp, it revs and idles, revs and idles) now I know whats wrong. Thanks from the UK
I have a Honda service manual and it states 3000 +/- 150 RPM as top, no load RPM. It is the same engine as in your video. Even Briggs Intek/Quantum engines and Toro's both stipulate around 3000 RPM as the top, no load governed speed. That is the procedure for adjusting.
I made the dumb mistake of adjusting the governor, when the governor was not the problem, so I needed to figure out how governors worked to get it working properly again
Because your method requires tiny movements of the shaft it's not a realistic way to do this. Viewers should refer to the owners manual for you engine where you will find the correct method.
The engine's load is always changing so they use a governor. In a car you are the governor and constantly modify rpm; Once you reach a certain speed-rpm you barely press the throttle to maintain it. At the same speed-rpm if you begin to go uphill the load increases and you have to push the throttle further to maintain the same speed. Now once you go down hill you let completely off to maintain the same speed. RPM is governed by the operator. The governor on a Briggs does all this automatically.
great explanation thank you
Honda sets their mowers at lower rpm than most to keep the sound levels to a minimum. The engines they use are designed to run faster and can easily and safely do so. Blade tip speed is what cuts grass nice, so higher rpms is a good thing. Your governor arm could have slipped and that will lower your rpms a fair amount. I would mark the spot that it is now and adjust the arm (a tiny bit) like I show to increase your rpms.
3060 RPM is not too slow. The Honda service manual recommends 3000 RPM+150 so 3060 is within tolerance. Setting it to 3560 in your video is too high. I can tell just from listening to it.
Thanks for watching. I do respectfully disagree with you though. Most mowers are set around 2900-3100 because of blade tip speeds regulations and decibel regulations. These engines are ran in numerous other applications and governed to run at 3400-3600rpm (pressure washers, log splitters, commercial applications, etc). They will actually cool very will with the built in cooling fan on all these small engines at 3600rpm. Lets agree to disagree :)
.... continued... small engines should run around 3400rpm and max at 3600. I repair engines for a living and take great pride in lawn quality. You get a better cleaner cut from a mower running closer to 3600rpm than 2900-3000.
Sorry but that's not how you adjust a governor you set the arm all the way too full and what u do is adjust the spring tension if you tighten the spring it will increase rpm and if you loosen the spring it will decrease rpm. If you try to adjust it on the shaft, it will work and you can get the engine to run at the right rpm but the governor will not open up up the throttle correctly and you will lose power.
Nice... Most people when they have a hard time understanding something ask questions. But I guess criticizing someone, who is trying to teach them makes them superior. I guess you taught me.
That is the rpm recommended under full load. If you actually left it at 3060 it would drop to 2500-2700rpm under full load. Performance is severely compromised at that rpm. These engines are rated at 3600 rpm.
You could probably do it by ear pretty good. Remove the chain so you can full rev the engine and hear what it sounds like. Then mark exactly where everything is so you can put it back if you run into trouble. Adjust the governor and restart the engine and rev it. You just want it to sound faster. I little adjusting goes along way. Even race engines will have a rev limiter to prevent the engine from exceeding a certain RPM and self destructing, that's all your doing.
I would of left it at around 3k for better fuel, I mow my mothers yard and it use to take about 1 and 1/2 refills to finish it and I adjusted mine by ear down to prob around 2.5k and I can do her whole yard in just under 1 take full... not that much difference one mite think but when your hot and almost got it done and don't wanna have to stop to refill the gas in the home stretch its very nice to me.
The government maximum mower blade tip speed is limited to 19,000 Feet Per Minute. That means a 21" blade is limited to about 3456 RPM. Now if you have a 20" blade, you can easily run it at 3600 for best performance. Riding Mowers where the blade is run by a belt, the gear ratio is changed to get he maximum FPM out of the blade at the engines 3600rpm. With several 18" blades they raise the gear ratio to spin them at around 4000 rpm(3400-3600 engine rpm) to keep within the 19000FPM limit.
@justinml11.... All these small engine made by Briggs and Stratton, Honda, Tecumseh, Kohler, etc are 3600rpm or less. They can be made to handle higher rpms but it requires billet rods, flywheels, forged crankshafts, ect. Pretty much everything internally has to be replaced. It is 10 times cheaper to change the gear ratio if you want your go cart/mini bike to go faster. Good Luck.
Just bend the arm where the spring attaches to on the governer arm
If the engine shuts off at 1/2 or less throttle I would adjust the idle screw on the very top of the carb. It is probably set out too far. Turn it in Clockwise a turn or so at a time and run the engine. This screw is what ultimately sets your low idle speed. Once your able to get it to run at idle then you can actually back it out until it idles exactly where you want.
Probably doesn't need a rebuild kit just a cleaning.
On a Kohler Courage 17HP engine, rotate the governor cross shaft (shaft) COUNTERCLOCKWISE as you view the end of the shaft to hold it against the governor pin, and tighten the governor assembly lever onto the shaft with the carburetor throttle valve wide open.
Sincerely,
David Parker
Continued: I have tested at least a dozen others and they all have been set from the factory at around 3400-3500rpm. This is the first one that has been set this low. It made a HUGE difference in performance in cutting a lawn.
Yes it does. Our new mower with gcv 160 did hardly 2000 rpm! There was just no suction and did bog down a lot.
Thanks for posting this video. I had my mower serviced at a local small engine repair shop and the guy obviously didn't know what he was doing. The engine was over-revving when I got it back and I didn't want to take it back to him. Your video was very helpful getting the governor adjusted correctly to bring the rpm's back to normal. Boy, that adjustment is really sensitive though, isn't it? The slightest adjustment makes a big difference! Thanks a million!
Hi.
I need help...
I have a honda hrx 357 from 2005.
The mower can't stay at idle and die as soon as i use the "turtle mode"
At "rabbit mode" it 's surging.
i've changed the sparkplug and air filter because there were cracked/dirty.
i've cleaned the carb (main jet was not clogged,needle and seat were ok float too.
carb gaskets are ok too
The tension spring of the governor is useless on mine there is zero tension,it's always floating (?)
it is on the lower hole (your's is in the upper hole)
You are very miss-informed. RPM is regulated by government blade tip speeds on walk behind lawn mowers. Most of these engines are rated at 3600rpm max but used on a walk behind mower they are limited to around 2500-3400 depending on mfg and blade length. Riding mowers are all around 3400 and have nothing to do with horsepower. I'm sorry but, belt tension, blade weight and horsepower have nothing to do with rpm.
When you make these videos you should have light at the back of you to illuminate your work so we can all see what it is that you are working with. Everything you are working with is dark compared to the background sunlight. If the sunlight were directly on these dark parts we could see how they work together.
it's surging,so i have to clean the carb again i guess.
but what's the problem with the impossible idle ?
Is it the air screw to adjust ?
there is a screw for max rpm to limitate the butterfly opening and an other screw with only a quarter turn avaible for tuning ?
It's the idle air screw ?
Yeah, when they blow usually they are 4500+ rpm. They work great but not for long.
I never said it wouldn't cut or do a job I am just saying it cuts better at higher rpm. I have used every brand of mower out there and they all cut better, have better mulching abilities and bag better at rpms closer to the engines max rated ability. The shearing action of a mower rips grass at slower rpms and leaves brown grass tips. Yes a sharp blade helps but most people don't sharpen their blade 2-3 times a season like it needs but rather every couple years.
I feel your grief. They get a pretty bad rap because they are blamed for a lot of problems that aren't their fault. The majority of carb related problems are blamed on the governor system. They are actually a very reliable system that is to blame for engine troubles less than 1% of the time. What engine are you having trouble with?
Sounds like your idle circuit is clogged. This will cause high rpm surging and no idle. You can view a complete carb video for your machine on my channel "Honda gc160 gc190 carb rebuild gcv160"
If you look at the engines alone at engines . honda . com and look at the engine specs. gcv160 and gcv190 that are in home owners mowers you will notice the performance curve says these engines are rated to go up to 3600rpm. Torque is peak at around 2500rpm. These speed rip grass and damage the roots. Torque is great to pull a tree stump. Horse Power get a job done faster. Honda does the slower rpm so it is quieter as people donate loud with poorly built. I say in my video that most are .....
hi
i've cleaned up the carb like you showed in the vid.
the mower is working now.
it's not perfect because the idle is low and it tend to die after a bit.
The max rpm is quite low too and was yet, before i touch the governor.
i can mow under load at least.
Thank you for your help.
I have no doubt you could crack it open and replace the small watch battery. I have had this little unit for 8 years and another on that is over 10-12 years old that haven't needed a battery for either. Nor does the display look dim like the battery is getting weak.
Governors are virtually bullet proof. Your engine is surging/slapping because the idle passage on your carb is clogged. The carb can't maintain rpm because of to little gas flow through the idle circuit and has to keep opening the main butterfly to get more gas. The engine then revs to where is should be and the governor closes the carb butterfly and the cycle repeats. "IF" your carb has an adjustable idle jet screw it out 1/4 turn at a time until it smooths out.
All snowblower engines should run at 3400-3600rpm. The other comments are about lawn mowers that have mower blade tip speed regulations that they are trying to conform to.
First I would check for a bad air filter. Generally that will cause reduced power and black smoke. Try running it for a minute without a filter to test. A wrong hole in the linkage will also cause lag. Mark the spot it is in now and try moving it one spot over.
Thanks, I just fixed one really old Briggs&Stratton machine and I was wondering how governor internals work. Didn't need to disassemble the engine, but it bothered me how linkage actuation was gone. I was expecting centrifugal type actuation and seems like I imagined it almost spot on, but didn't know about that internal lever. Thanks for the video 👍
@justinml11 They are built to handle higher engine rpm's. These small engines are only manufactured to handle 3600 rpms. If you want to go faster you need to change the gear ratio. A larger sprocket on the engine or a smaller sprocket on the axle will raise the gear ratio and give the machine a higher speed.
@justinml11 ....No 3600 is MAX. Any faster and the engine will blow up by throwing a rod. Yes when the engine is off the generally the throttle plate is wide open.
ok.
I've watched the two sets of vids you made.
I will clean the carb tomorrow.
I've messed with the governor set up but once the carb clean i will put it back like it was.
The tension spring set up is weird however, completly useless on my engine.
Thank you for your help : )
Snownblower 2-stroke Tecumseh engine Hsk-600 its now
eight years later I Just put in a New Motor
haha started it Yesterday but I'm worried about the RPMS - the motors running a little Jumpy - The motor is new but probably sat in a box for years so this Video help me w the rpms I already blew up one motor read other post so I'm little worried
about running it, whats normal whats not?
I'm going to check Rpms today
TFP Video
Ok Story about why people worry about the RPMS set to High, Watch out!
I bought a Snownblowerit at a Garge sale, Haha the Governor Link was not hooked up or fell off & running it for the first time it Sounded fast, ok, I was thinking this must be normal lol, Wow this snowblower threw snow really far until it made a BIG BANG & Blew Up (20 min later) RPM set to high = New Motor
The carburetor has a partially clogged idle or main jet. The governor is just trying to make the best of a dirty carb. I have a few Tecumseh carb videos up and yours should be virtually identical to the video below. Yours is just larger.
Watch this video to repair it(look on my channel).
Tecumseh Carb snowblower cleaning 1 of 2
With the engine off the governor will move freely. With the engine running if you force it to slow down the governor arm will pull and be forcing the carb to open up and run faster. Once you let it go it will return to faster operation. What kind of engine is it?
Thank you! That was a good overall explanation of governors in general.
By removing it will allow you to get engine to higher rpms. The problem with this is the engine will be put at risk of throwing a rod, damaging valve train, oil starvation, over heating, cam failing, etc at higher rpms. I would suggest setting the governor to allow you to run at higher rpms.. Like 4000 rpm vs the stock 3400-3600prms. This will give you a little more but you limit the risk of blowing up your engine. People think it is a magical device that limits there hp but its not...
Thanks. I appreciate your videos. But if you will remember to keep the light (or window) behind the camera instead of behind the subject (you and your workpiece), it will be much more effective. The light is closing the aperture of the camera. It should be shining on the subject, not the camera lens. Thanks again.
Great video... By far the most straight forward explanation from the governor/ throttle relationship I’ve seen. I have a high revving Honda mower. Trying your adjustments tomorrow. Thanks
Most of the time a high revving engine is simply the throttle butterfly on the carburetor sticking open
i forgot ; the tension spring is not worn out: it's like new,it's never under tension
You are correct with the Honda service manual I have the same manuals. I am not arguing with that. If you look at the individual specs for the engines they are almost all rated at 3600 rpm max (some at 4000). Honda specs that the rpm be lower on newer mowers to reduce emissions and lower the sound. If you want the best performance/ most hp out of your engine they are safely rated to run at 3600 max(no load). This is one of the first Honda mowers that I have had to adjust.
The idle screw is virtually pointless and won't give you what you need. You need to pull the idle jet (directly below the idle speed screw) and clean it and the passage down into the carb bowl.
It is very unlikely that you governor system is to blame unless it has been messed with and put back together incorrectly. With the engine off and the throttle lever set to rabbit the spring should pull the main butterfly open. At turtle there should be little to no spring tension.
It's like your Governor maintaining your State! LOL
No. Backfiring would be a lean carb. It most likely needs rebuilding.
@classicoutboards .. Good. This tells us that the butterfly is working properly. You will need to adjust the governor further. It is a VERY sensitive instrument. Looking at the governor arm determine which way closes the throttle. If moving it in a counter clockwise direction closes the throttle butterfly/reduces rpm then you need the rotate the governor shaft coming out of the block clockwise in the governor arm to reduce the throttle. Let me know how you make out.
You will over rev the engine and most likely throw a rod. Then you won't go any speed. If you want your riding mower to go faster do a pulley swap.
It's your idle circuit in the carb that is causing the surging. Ebay has new carbs for around 20 bucks or you can attack it again.
The carb can't maintain a set rpm because there is no or too little gas flowing through the idle circuit and it has to keep opening the main butterfly to get more gas. The engine then revs to the rpm it should be and the governor closes the carb butterfly and the cycle repeats.
Is there a reason why you are looking at the governor? What is the engine doing that concerns you?
Thank you for the informations.
I've tried to adjust the governor during and hour and a half,it's really really really sensible.
now it's like before i touched it or radically way higher, screaming.
Without the rpm meter i don't want to touch it.
The mower belongs to a grandma i'm helping i can't take a risk.
At least it's starting and working now.
Thank you again. : )
Greets from France.
Yeah, those are simple and work very well.
I assume when you adjust the throttle control from the drivers seat it does nothing. You can try to adjust it like I show in the video at about 3:00. Reference where it is and rotate the shaft in the rod.
If you want the same style tachometer I use I put a link in the description.
If the RPMs aren't stable it is a carburetor problem, not a governor.
3,600 RPM is too high; too much heat, too much unneeded power. Lawn mower type engines should run at lower speeds (and loads), with less heat because they don't have cooling systems. 2,600-2,800 is usauly good. But 2,400-2,500 is better if less power is required. It's okay to briefly "serge" up to 3,600 is power is suddenly needed, but this doesn't happen on mowers. Most mowers are governed at 2,800 but HP specs are taken at full throttle (3,600ish RPM)
Great, helpful video! (besides RPM facts)
If you need to clean your carb I have most of them on my channel. Thanks for watching.
Sounds like the carb's idle circuit is clogged. The governor sounds like it is working like it should and trying to adjust for a dirty carb.
You might get more HP out of a higher revving mower but the most torque is generated at a lower RPM. I have installed a new throttle cable on a neighbor's older Honda mower and it stipulates 3000 RPM. Two Toros I have with a 4 cycle Suzuki OVH both stipulate 3000 RPM and those are all older mowers (late 80s).
Ok answerd that Q. so when i start the engine all i get is a HIGH Speed.I can move the gov arm by hand and it slows the engine down. but when i let it go it does nothing.if that gear was broken it wouldnt move at all, are it would move freely, right
@classicoutboards You should be able to manually operate the governor arm and decrease the engine speed to an idle. If you let it go does it over rev?
No I am just wondering what problem you are trying to fix. Was the engine over revving, surging, lacks power or?
Sticking, Rusted or broken, Try to free it up by hand.
Hey thanks man for the reply. You are right sometimes the motor sounds like its gonna stall. The GCV160 is a very good work hourse of a motor. I did mess around with the governor today and got the rpms up to about 2600. I quickly reset it back to 1800 because the motor was louder. I think i will mess around with it a little more tomorrow. Thank you for your help!
@classicoutboards Your carburetor butterfly could be sticking open.
THANK YOU .... for the comment that surging, hunting is a dirty carb. I adjusted the spring 7 times.
then watched your video. I cleaned my carb and the surging / hunting turning into smooth running.
THANK YOU.
Great. I'm glad this helped.
Well explained so that even I can understand a difficult concept. I cleaned my carb and put it back (Crafts. Eager 1) and just runs for 1 second and quits. Well the governor linkage spring was too stretched so the throttle was always closed. I changed the carb, cleaned the old and put back, took the bowl off again, recleaned the main jet, changed the gas, cleaned the tank, etc. What a nightmare because I didn't understand what was going on.
Most cables for small engine are solid wire. It sounds like you have a bicycle type braided cable. I wish I could help more, but you are going to have to get innovative.
Next Q how hard is it to replace the hole Governor.I would hate to have to tear down this engine..I'm not a mechanic So I do not have all the tools I would need
This was an excellent video - it saved me the time of taking apart my engine to see how the governor works. Thanks for posting it.
It is a tecumseh.17.5 enduro XL/C yes it moves freely when the engine is off.But when I start it up I watch the govenor arm and it doesnt do any thing.
It shouldn't drop that much. I think your carb is running to lean and needs a cleaning.
About bloody time someone explained the governor. Thanks mate good job saved me paying the lawn mower repairer morons. Thanks heaps worked for me!!!
When i adjust the govenor and tighten the bolt, my buterfly wont return and if i loosen the nut a little ,than my buterfly returns but if i start the motor than the rp its over the roof..(btw im ajusting without a tachometer because at this moment a dont have one) and if i tighten the nut so that my buterfly stays on the correct position , then i can't control my speed ..any suggestions ?
That happened to me one time and I found out the internal gear was broken. Check everything outside and it's still Rev-Up, more likely broken internal governor - gear - weight.
@@JodBronson thanks for the reply.. yes it was the internal govenor. But i was too afraid to fix it sinds you need to pull the motor apart.. so i sold it 😞
@@jimmysrandomness - If you are not comfortable fixing, that would be best. If you have push mowers, like in the video. They sell the engines at Harbor Freight for $99.00 on sale.
@Smallgasengine1...... Yes it would if it was ran for an extended period of time.
Great video sixtyfiveford. I have a couple questions, my riding lawn mower (Murray) has a 13.5 hp engine and I watch the govenor fluctuates, which means the throttle reves up and down. How can I regulate the govenor from reving up and down? Also, I disconected the lead at the bottom of the carburator float and it runs fine once in awhile. How do I adjust the fluctuation of the reving of the govenor? Thanks again for your video. Very informative.
Yes. Gasoline with ethanol left in an engine longer than 3 months will start to gum up.
@Pianobuggy ........Around the spark plug wire
Make a video and I will look at it.
so basically cut all the springs and start the engine for maximum rpm, gotcha
Flyweights. "Spool". The governor system adds throttle to compensate for load. Now - - - if I could just get mine to work ! 😭
@seapeddler It is called a "Tiny Tach" and they are available online everywhere. No the governor gear is not in time with any other gears. It can be in any position when installed.
Hi. We have parts that may fit your Honda engine. We're happy to offer you the product completely free of charge in exchange for a video review. Are you interested?
cont: In the commercial mowing industry they run their blades at the fastest the government will allow(yes they even regulate this).
To sum up. 3600 will give you more horse power and cut the grass nicer.
An engine that dies when the blade is engaged generally means carb issues. It could be as simple as a dirty air filter or a partially clogged main jet.
The idle speed is around 2800, so I'm going to fix that tonight. The clutch plate is in good shape. Compared it to a new one. Is there a down-side to setting the governor at 3600? Of course, any repair I attempt is at my risk and you are not liable even if you say, 10k? Sure, why not? ;P
Sorry for the friggin' novel!
-Rusto
Honda gc160 gc190 carb rebuild gcv160
This is my video that covers your engine's carb. Skip to 3:05 to skip the removal process.
Ok so how far doe that govenor arm supost to move.I just tried it, and it only move a little
You have a sharp eye. It's a 1987 Toyota Micro Motorhome.
Thanks for the video and helping me understand the operation of the governor. I have a Honda gc160 on a pressure washer. The engine runs just great except the rpm's don't increase when under a load.however when i advance the governor control manually the rpm's increase as well as the water pressure. I'm thinking it's a governor problem but I am wondering if it is an adjustment issue or a replacement issue. thanks again
The engine itself is designed to run at a constant 3600 rpm safely. They use this engine on various equipment and on most 3600 is required. Honda however has their mowers set a lower rpm for several reasons: sound level and overall engine life. The engine will last longer at 3100rpm vs 3600 but you also does significantly less work at 3100 rpm. The technique mowers use in cutting grass give a better cut the faster the blade spins. The faster the blade spins the faster you can walk with the mower
Shit hot mate, four years my ride on has sat in the garage (when it's at temp, it revs and idles, revs and idles) now I know whats wrong. Thanks from the UK
Is there supposed to be play in the governor arm? On my lawnmower the shaft moves in and out about a half an inch. Idk if that’s supposed to happen
I have a Honda service manual and it states 3000 +/- 150 RPM as top, no load RPM. It is the same engine as in your video. Even Briggs Intek/Quantum engines and Toro's both stipulate around 3000 RPM as the top, no load governed speed. That is the procedure for adjusting.
I made the dumb mistake of adjusting the governor, when the governor was not the problem, so I needed to figure out how governors worked to get it working properly again
You're welcome. Thanks for commenting.
Because your method requires tiny movements of the shaft it's not a realistic way to do this. Viewers should refer to the owners manual for you engine where you will find the correct method.
@macsunshine1 ... Thanks for watching.