The Secret Pro Drummers Don't Want To Tell You?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2023
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The Secret Pro Drummers Don't Want To Tell You?
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Ever wonder if there is a drumming secret that all professional drummers know? Well...there is actually. So what do Vinnie Colaiuta, Stewart Copeland, Dave Grohl, Jeff Porcaro, Buddy Rich, Benny Greb, Matt Garstka, Steve Gadd, Antonio Sanchez, and every other pro know? It's not so much a secret as it is just part of being a creative...
I've talked about this for years with my drum students in their drum lessons and any professional drummer will tell you, stealing is a regular part of being an artist. When we learn things from other drummers, we unintentionally make them a part of our own playing. Those things start showing up. And over time, we begin to make them our own. Being able to trace where you learned something and give credit to the original artist is so important.
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Stephan is a great teacher. I've been with his drum school for over a year, started from scratch. And drums are my third instrument (my two main being classical piano and jazz guitar). One outstanding thing Stephan did at the beginning of the lessons was to recommend a book by Daniel Coyle, "The Talent Code" and the companion book "the little book of talent: 52 tips for improving your skills". I mention these books because tip #3, "Steal without Apology" is what he's doing in this video.
Thanks Tom!!!
I like the simple explanation RLK.LRK.KRL..It is simple really..
No pro musician would ever hide anything from anyone who genuinely have a love and passion for music no matter what level they are at
There's only one secret to drumming or any instrument for that matter. Hard work, timing, educate, practice, playing, wash, rinse and repeat...
That would be 7-8 steps, technically.
@@SuperlativeElectric Meaning drums is hard work.. Yes...
But only a few are BORN drummers. Kenny aronoff is a metronomically competent drummer, with a shitty sound, no groove, and no feel. Stevie wonder is an amazing natural drummer
We all replicate chops from our idols
Oh how wrong you are. It varies person to person. Ive seen sick kids with in months blow fire just naturally in their own imagination...4 yr olds play like grownups....20 hrs life experience....and others practice by the book technique metronome correct methods/books....sound like the high school 4:00 drum section fell down steps on the way to the field.
I think that is the wonderful thing as an artist. You take all these nuggets from the players that influenced you and you get to meld them into "your" style. I never really thought of it as "stealing" so much as "borrowing". The thing I've noticed after years of playing is that the licks that I "borrow" from other players evolve into something a little different. Or, I will mix and blend a couple of different things together because it fits the song that we are doing. I just love that natural organic evolution of music. For instance, I've played in rock cover bands for years and with the same general group of players for about the last 20 years. All of the "standard" rock covers we do all have evolved into a slightly different animal. Almost to the point where other players who sit in have a tough time following because we maybe repeated a phrase, or put some syncopated breaks in, etc.
Great lesson, man! You hit the mark about using predefined parameters, but also introducing variation while repeating simple concepts. The possibilities are infinite. That's when art is born.
The first thing you're doing is called a "broken double". Tony Williams was one of the first people to use it. In Gary Chaffee's Patterns Vol 2 (Stickings), there's a whole section on it where, like he does, he goes through every permutation. Vinnie of course was a huge Tony Williams fan and also studied with Chaffee, and has a legendary work ethic as well as mind-boggling instinct and aptitude.
I watched another of your more recent videos where you talk about really going into one thing deeply (great video!). If you have the patience and desire, Chaffee's system is a good means of doing it. I studied with him over 35 years ago and I'm still working on some of the concepts I studied with him.
Major beginner here…One thing I always look for when watching someone play…the HH clapping keeping time during the groove…it just seems like such a foundational thing to playing a kit. Maybe it’s just me.
Something I have recently started doing for practice and if I’m initiating a jam is play along to a melody in my head something I know well and not necessarily playing the beat on the record but just jamming along to the melody it’s opened up a lot of new possibilities and technique for me
As long as we are willing to give credit to the guys we “steal” from. Some call it “inspired or influenced by”. We’re encouraged to learn from the greats that came before so it’s bound to happen.
Thank you ! Great video for this new drummer, longtime guitar player! 🤘🏻🥁I do this with guitar riffs when i was writing songs in my former metal band. You are inspired by a little something and then morph it into something different.
It is so true. But I was shock with how I discovered this. I taught my self drums by listening to bands an repeating what I heard. That's just how I learned in my late teens before I started forming a couple of cover bands before moving on to original material bands. Cut to being in my 30s. I start a band from scratch. 9 years down the line, now being 45. I randomly, due to nostalgia start listening to a bunch of songs from a band that I never covered or drummed a long to? That me and my dad used to listen too when I was in my 'early' teens. No word of a lie, the amount of that bands fills I use in my latest band at 45 that have come from that band I listened to with my dad before even starting the drums? Shocking! It happens so instinctively and organically ? Without even realising it! Crazy
I love the layout of the wall in the background..
this is so cool and useful. Thank you!!!
@3:52 Roy Burns
I got a response from Aquarian customer service via email about a question I had about one of their heads, saying give me a call at this number. Next thing you know, "hello this is Roy Burns" and he explained everything to me. Sweetest guy ever.
Totally blanked when I was doing this live stream lol
And agree, Roy called me to tell me he liked my snare tone in a video. Total class act
I used parts of Lee Kerslake, Uriah Heep in some of my bands songs over the years, also Bill Ward, and Doug Clifford
Stephen, I love that you are so down to earth and you don't have any overblown ego. This makes your videos great to me. Back on topic, I think I should now thank Gene Krupa because I sometimes play eight note triplets on my snare with accents, while my bass drum is hitting quarter notes, lol! Great insight my friend.
Thank you my friend
I also love those accented Krupa triplets on the snare with the quarter note kick drum pulse. They sound great and not hard to play. Krupa played those runs very often, usually repeatedly over many bars. Pure class! This is a great video. Thanks Stephan!
I completely suck but one thing I have had and am getting better with is placing cymbals so I can have happy accidents and eventually intentional ones where I get that glancing hit from cymbal to Tom
Interested in your seminar in Idaho! Where can I find details?
This is awesome .. Thank you Stephen!
That's not stealing, more like being influenced or inspired by drum parts. And with so much material out there, what makes you unique is your specific choice of drum parts that stand out enough for you to make them a part of you.
I don't think there's a musician on earth that hasn't "stolen" ideas from other musicians, it's called - learning.
I never thought of it as “stealing”, but I guess it is. I always thought that’s what people meant when they talked about “influences”. I admit it, I have stealing stuff from drummers I like. It’s cool to know some big time drummers did it too.😁
I agree with you….. to me that’s what influences are. I don’t really see it as stealing.
Amusing title.... we all stand on the shoulders of the drummers that came before us. I'm not a fan of copying one drummer to such an extent that you become a clone, but not as good. Of course, most people copy one idea from one favourite drummer, then another idea from a second favourite drummer and so on. As we all have different favourite drummers (influences), we all end up sounding different, especially when we mix all those bits we've copied together.
But it's not stealing! It's Inspiration, I tell you! Haha, we all have to start somewhere indeed, especially in the broad world of music.
Absolutely
Brilliant old drummers (me) 👍going back after 20 years find this great to relearn drums Love it
In addition to putting your own spin on these patterns, what really makes them work is the use of space.
Good video. Thanks!
Most examples are stealing licks and specifics really close to others. It comes a bit easier and more your own by learning styles. Exactly what you said at 3:24 ish.
Spot on! Learn their styles and the rest is up to you.
Yes!
I do this a lot with Phil Collins’ licks! Watcher of the Skies is beastly!
Great advice as always Stephen, thank you and God bless!
Good stuff!!!! Thanks!!!
Talk about low hanging fruit, I think this one had already fallen off the tree- while I was recording an album with a group I had a drum fill, and near the end of it I put in a single stick click as my way of nodding to Steve Gadd on Asia. And it doesn’t feel right if I don’t put a Bonham lick into a song a few times a night,
Roy Burns was a great guy and a monster player. He was one of a precious few drummers who gave Buddy a run for his money in the mid-1960s.
Yay for Austin Kleon, author of Steal Like an Artist.
Great video!
Quite a few drummers have been credited with being ‘the source’ of a particular pattern or idea because they did it on a famous record. What interests me, is, where did they get it from? For example, lots of drummers will credit John Bonham with hand to foot triplets - but in the early 60s (before Cream) you can hear Ginger Baker playing them, when Bonham was still an unknown teenager. Where did Baker get hand to foot triplets from? I’m sure he wasn’t the first by a long way. Does anyone know who did this first? And if we found out who was first - would any of us have heard of the guy? I bet there is an obscure, scratchy vinyl 78 out there somewhere, where an unknown dixieland drummer drops in a couple of bars of triplets on his wood block and bass drum and someone else thought “Hmmm…. I could make something out of that”.
Elvin Jones was one of the first to keep the ride pattern going while tripling the other three limbs in the quarter note.
Baker NEVER did good times bad times like bonham. Nor did he have his sound
Grazie! Bellissima lezione!
ripp off what you can, make it your own, and play from the heart. you can never go Wrong.
Dude that kit looks to be a 60s model Ludwig, sounds sweet 💯🥁
the secret is to head over to SDS and learn from a pro. but seriously SDS is a great place to learn and helped me improve my drumming more than i could ever imagine. awesome video dude
Makes my day to hear that my friend!
Great great lesson!!!
Stewart Copeland says he just moves his snare quarter beats to the right one quarter beat and that you can move yours to the left a quarter beat because that one is still available!
If you’re influenced and most if not all of us are AND you’re full on creative you’re going to pull from things. I have several instances in original composition I used drum ideas from famous happenings of sorts. If they are in context to original music it’s not that apparent. Especially when where you’re pulling from and where it goes aren’t even close to the same style of music
Ian Paice once said, There's nothing new, Everybody borrows from everybody else and makes it their's...
Awesome !!!
"Composers write, but artists steal" or something like that, as it were
Oh for sure! We could go through my whole discography and I can tell were I stole the grooves/Licks 😂
Haha! Same
makes me think of just doing drum solo's as a kid every little piece becomes much more
accept i had a 32 piece drum kit lol
Maybe one of your best videos, In my opinion. Thank you.
Thanks Dan! This is just one of the two weekly calls I do every week with my students. Talk about stuff like this every week. Glad you dig!
Stephen is the Tim Pierce of drumming !
Well, but they did all told us openly on tv ✌🏻😂
Sorry, just had to! Great work, keep it up 🙏🏻🤩
The day drum beats have a patent is a sad day!
Cheers.
I will never understand why Stephen is ‘down’ talking himself when playing licks from the great and famous. Stephen is a sick sick SICK puppy on the drums. A beast in his own league.
.'.. I'm packing up my gear for a legover tour" ? 😂
"Leg of a tour" 🤣
Hi Stephen. Is that a Ludwig kit you're playing?
looks like you got the acrolite off the rack. i miss mine. my first snare.
Oh yea...I believe it's a mid 60s or early 70s. Got it used off a cat in Alabama
What is he taking off/on his snare?
So. I’m coming up on 73 years old. I started playing drums in 1962. (Man. I hate to say that out loud.) Pretty sure that is something like 61 years? I have never played an “original” lick. At times I thought I did. But no. Not really. I think there was a small handful of drummers that were around when a set of drums became a thing back in the big band era that came up with the small handful of licks that we have all copied. For around a hundred years. 🤔
Lol, I'm the same. I'll think I've played something original then I hear an album I used to be into and I realize "well crap, I stole that from this album"
It's being influenced or borrowing what fits. Bonham borrowed from Appice.
Appice borrowed from Crupa etc.
Different instrument... SRV borrowed from Albert King and others,
he freely admitted it.
This isn't a secret. Everyone's drumming is derived from what they've heard other drummers do.
It is never steeling if you always say "I borrowed the idea and/or it from so and so." When you don't say where it comes from IF someone `asks, *then -- it's stealing.* Peace
Totally agree
the morse code, like Neil Peart and the tune YYZ
PRACTICE PERIOD!!!
This guy is great. I love his videos. From a distance he looks and sounds a lot like Louis CK!
Stealing from Vinnie sounds like a good idea, until you try it.
Haha...truth!
If you don't steal (influenced) from other artists, then you'll never learn anything.
Ehh you hear something and love it and then naturally think ,hey let me see if i can play that, or, i think i can play that thing, and there you go. Its like the 20s thru fifties ppl would play songs that were popular but did it their way. It irks me ppl sample today but its same idea. I guess its how you do it.
Great suggestion. Very cool. Looks like fun, I'm going to give it a shot.
Aquarian founder - Roy Burns.
I completely blanked while filming this lol
There’s a big difference copyright violation is criminal, but a drummer playing a certain style. It’s just picking up a Drum beat and rhythm that they like and drumming like them which is not criminal. Even most drummers will tell you they’re inspired by certain drummers that help them to become a better drummer. John Bonham of Led Zeppelin was inspired by Buddy Rich.
You cant copyright a rhythm, or a chord change fool
I don’t think Jeff Porcaro cares what secrets drummers know anymore.
Well....some call it theft.others may call it hard work....but i like to call it...."borrow" yeah thats what it is...."borrowing"!
man, I feel like this was pretty click-bait... I think a more appropriate "secret" might be something like how often Vinnie used to practice, which was ALL THE TIME. That's not talked about enough and it was pretty well known back in the 80's and 90's amongst musicians in LA just how dedicated he was. I had a friend who studied with him in the 80's who said the dashboard of his car was completely destroyed because he would work on rudiments in his car while driving!
No person invented music. It is alot like conversation. You learn words, phrases, timing, and delivery.
Yes!
Even Dave weckel borrowed alot of buddy Rich groove' s in put in his bag.
If this isn't already the most obvious thing in the world to you, you might not be a musician.
It's obvious to many, but a lot of students I've spoken to over the years still feel some sort of guilt for mimicking their idols. As if there is something wrong about it
Vinnys great coz he slowed buddy rich down to learn the chops
DW NORFOLK U.K.
Magnifico.⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️
Vinnie ripped tons of stuff from Tony Williams,who got it from Alan Dawson. The lineage of this stuff is great,you go back to the source…❤️
Yes! Love that lineage you laid out...I took from two of Dawson's former students. What a legend
I steal ALL my shit.....but i still sound like me no matter what I do🤣🤣🤣
11:30 that’s what I sound like at the moment 😝😝
It's not stealing, pro drummers are more than happy for you to use their stuff because your inspired by them.
Parts are one thing. Playing like you have a pair is another.
I learned "cymbal chokes" from Roger Taylor. Oh, god..... I hope he doesn't sue me!
Those freakin bastard drummers, I should have KNOWN they were always trying to hold me back. It was ALWAYS THEIR fault I failed.
Oh. That's how I do it ANYWAY. I start by trying to imitate something, then I just let my own groove take over and mutate it.
EDIT: added 'trying to'
Watcher of the skies
It’s all about embracing the culture of drumming. All the art disciplines do it. Study the history, learn where it all came from and grab your inspirations. Too many today are more into cancelling their culture and ignoring history.
“Good artists copy, Great artists steal”
Meaning Great artists copy, but then make it their own.
Absolutely!
Drumming is the easiest of all to do if you're a born one I can't copy anyone or play anything other folks have already nicked , just bash n boom I say 👍
We all “borrow”
Get yourself a little Omar Hakim also 😊
That guy...so good
@@StephenTaylorDrums I'm not sure I have ever been able to secure his style at all, like you said so good. But it's not a coincidence he did the first Sting blue turtles before Vinnie.
Great stuff Stephen.
That Ozmosys record is cool!
I’ve stolen from over 25 drummers from Moe Purtle to Neil Peart. I’ve even stolen from Beethoven and Keith Emerson.
All drumming is simple if u keep it simple,,,it's one's own ego that gets in the way n bad practice habits
2 secrets not included here….. groove and swing….. don’t even show up without them.
Here before you fixed the title typo :)
Ha! Thanks for the heads up!
Here when you called it out!
❤❤😊
whats this "youtube premium enhanced bitrate" crap? 1080p looks like 480p without premium now?
As I say in the beginning, this was taken from a love streamed call I did with my students. So the quality is not as high as it usually is
@@StephenTaylorDrums alright my apologies, i missed that part. Hopefully youtube wont do what i just thought they did.
Fools borrow....
Masters steel outright!!
Yes! Haha
You swapped your Tama kit for a Ludwig? I'll wait for you to come up against the Ludwig hardware wall. There is no comparison to Tama hardware. I've lived it...
I left Tama last year. Agree with you, they have great hardware. But I was loving some other sounds...so I'm playing whatever I want atm. Ludwig, Yamaha, Roger's, vintage...just having fun. They all make pretty great hardware these days. I still use my iron cobra hihat pedal
Most ideas are not original.