the CPU (the SoC) has an integrated USB 3.0 controller so pcie isn't used for that anyway. I suspect that it is using dual-purpose pins in the BGA though because 14 usb 3.0 is a pretty damn lot of contacts. So to expose the pcie they could not use the same pins to do USB 3.0
You can see the extra pins for USB3 in each port and the number of passives next to the connector on the PCB suggest the ports are wired for USB3. If the other replys are correct and the CPU shares USB3 pins on the package with PCIE pins for the NVME, then there should be a BIOS setting to set the M.2 slot for PCIE x2 instead of x4 and the USB ports should work as USB3. That's assuming the manufacturer did everything right.
@@blazini They used the similar PCB for higher end model that uses 11/12th gen mobile CPU. The presence of USB3 pins and miss-printed chassis label could just be recycled design across different models. I agree that the n305/n100 SoC have built-in USB3 controller, it is left for manufacturer to configure to expose the trace of either PCIE lanes or USB3 to the motherboard, in a similar fashion that M.2 slot electrically support either nvme or sata-protocol SSD.
Most of these units that have the N305/N100 in them have a x3 M.2 and the second M.2 running off the "h" adapter is actually PCIE x1 ( OUCH ). You are correct in that it is not enough lanes... It is what it is. The second M.2 is arguably only usable for a wifi adapter; a waste for a NVME drive.
I picked up one of these N305 guys when saw the other video about its smaller sibblings. Proxmox 8, opnsense with nic passthrough, a docker host and some LXC containers and it runs my network with capacity to spare! It's got enough muscle to route more than a gigabit of wiregaurd VPN traffic without a problem. Big thanks to everyone in the forums who dug in deep to how these fanless badboys work
4 ssd in a firewall box like this could be interesting for caching..... Or for container storage or storing logs without eating up network bandwidth. Nice to have data storage on a separate drive than os
@@ServeTheHomeVideodefinitely interested in seeing this. I can think of so many configurations I'd like to test. Cooling could definitely become an issue depending on use case and environment. In the server rack in the past ive had some success putting small devices like this by an exhaust fan for more airflow - wiring can get messy tho.
@@blahblahblahblah2933 . Two sided tape on top of a rackmount chassis in a pinch. If you have a space tied down to a rackshelf can be pretty secure tho. in my homelab I have a shelf with slits in it and I use zip ties to secure smaller devices to it. I'd be interested in hearing if anyone else has a better solution.... Not entirely satisfied with anything I've come up with yet.
Great to see low power appliances like this. I recently purchased an inexpensive Beelink S12 Pro (N100) which comes with an empty SSD slot. Combining this with an 8TB Samsung SSD made it the perfect Proxmox Backup Server for home use. 7W power use from the wall with the SSD + 16GB RAM.
I was looking at the same one the entire pc is something like £170 and just the n100m asrock motherboard is £150 way too expensive for only the motherboard
One thing I'm really curious about is the NICs. I have a CWWK N4000. It has two i226-V NICs (all I need for a firewall). I have been running OPNsense on it since it has supported those NICs for a while. An issue I keep running into with this CWWK unit is that the system doesn't seem to respond to multicast messages used for uPnP. I have configured all the correct services and rules on the firewall to allow uPnP functionality. I also verified my config on an old Intel PC I had lying around so I know it works. I use uPnP for some games I play as well as my Plex server. I know I can manually create the NAT rules myself but this issue has me very curious if anyone else who has used CWWK devices has run into this issue. If so, do all their products with i226-V NICs have this problem? Have you tested this at all?
The hardware has nothing to do with multicast support, that is handled by your network stack in your OS. In other words: You have a software configuration issue, not a hardware issue.
@@kelu7463 Except changing the NIC did in fact fix the issue in this case. I finally had time to find out why. I ran a bunch of tests and it seems the multicast MAC filtering in the “bad” NIC wasn’t working correctly. That filtering mechanism is built into the NIC’s chipset. That is definitely a hardware issue. However, to your point, not all things NIC hardware live at layer 1. It’s entirely possible to have higher layer features implemented in hardware. Layer 3 switches are a good example of that. Regardless, from a user’s perspective, this was a hardware failure and it was solved by replacing the hardware (same model, same driver).
Nice review as always! I do really struggle to understand your super-fast southern English, but after almost 4 years that I shhe your reels, I get at least 80%... 😀
I have the N100 topton and it’s amazing. Opnsense, home assistant and about 5 containers from tteck and a 3-5% CPU load. I put a 12CM pc fan op top powered by it’s own usb port at 5v super silent and cool. Great little home lab system that runs proxmox like a dream and super stable.
10:00 there has to be another chip near/on that clock chip. just seems like what there doing is adapting that 1 m.2 slot to 4 more m.2 slots via a pcie switch chip. maybe thats what the bios update is for (bifurcation)? can you peel back the black plastic to see whats underneath that???
Hi, nice piece of hardware, especially the PCIe Lanes splitter that fits ferpectly in such a machine, very well seen. ~36 W is logic with this kinda CPU, it stays quite low for an 8 core (and very useful for a HTTP server written in Erlang:). Very good ratio quality/price, at this price for an 8 core it will be difficult to beat.
USB 2 is still VERY useful, the signalling speed of USB 3.x causes some interference with low power 2.4GHz signals, like Thread, Zigbee and Bluetooth, but I do agree, some USB 3 ports on a box like this would be a very good idea too. We need BOTH.
IPU 456A uses an Ryzen 5600U, which got the lanes. But it misses the smart 4x NVME switch. 2x USB 3.1, 1x USB-C all with 10GB and 2x USB 2, 4x 2.5GBNic. In a Package which is nearly identical. But costs more.
@@vuhuy8952 I see that on the N100/N200/N305 boxes with USB 3 or USB C, the speed of the NMVE is only x1. This means that NMVE SSD operate at lower speed (I found that 1x means 1GB/s). Only USB 2 boxes has NMVE x4 (according to CWWK website).
What about bios updates? And I hear a lot of people fearing for bringing this kind of devices in their network... scared for backdoors etc... Did someone ever checked/tested this?
One year later, and still all the reviews are like "yeah cheap, efficient, can run this and that!" But still no one is talking about that detail. Really shows that they are not using the systems they review 🤷🏻♂️
9:56 This chip is a clock buffer, that only clones clock signal to additional drives, so only way that they could implement 4 NVMe is probably via bifurcation x4 slot to four x1 sub-slots. And that's going to be very limited and below usual 2 PCIe lanes that even older low-end NVMe drives have. Unclear, why even bother with NVMe then, unless you require some very niche use case with SFF build for low-throughput high-IOPS very expensive high-end SSDs, which would be very costly and highly inefficient.
I have to agree with you on USB unlike the other comments. Not only is USB 3 interference a solvable issue but also the QoL improvements it brings is worth it.
I would agree with the one exception being.. what does it bring other than using it to watch a movie or something from the USB stick? With a 2.5gig network, you're going to get on par speeds copying from any other 2.5gig capable network device (ok.. 1/2 the speed.. but most USB drives don't have read speeds fast enough to keep up with USB3 bandwidth).
Just wanted to chime in about the RAM... I got mine a couple of days and and paired it with a 32GB crucial sodimm and it has been fine so far, running proxmox ve. Just one pfsense vm running on it so far with no issues.
Definitely a great NAS computer. Could you tell me what the power-consumption is when you optimise the bios, IE disable the GPU, use conservative memory clocks etc?
In China, we usually buy this type of console to install Openwrt to traverse the GFW. Of course, it should be fanless, and it should also have multiple net ports, because it is designed to be used as a router.
Hi, I request for a video on the new multi nvme SSD card, whether this could serve to replace IP camera NVR and discussion about other NAS use cases. Also some thing about modifying these boxes to obtain better cooling. Also the link to Topton N305 in description needs to be corrected.
Have you guys ever made guides for people just starting to get into this kind of stuff? For example, what kinds of projects you can use a box like this for and how to actually set up things? I know there's probably a lot of tutorials out there but I always find more to be better, some people think of different info to include or explain things in different ways which makes learning overall much more thorough when you watch multiple videos like that.
This series of boxes are quite good. I'm using CWWK N95 one for Proxmox and run OpenWRT as a guest. But it seems there's high IO delay with N series CPU, as we can see at 16:30. I don't know the root cause and cannot find the solution so far.
At 6:40, you can see a SYS_FAN connector in the bottom right. I have the same connector, but I don't know what kind of adapter I need to plug in a regular 3/4 pin fan. Can someone please link me an example adapter or a part number so I know what I'll need to buy? Thanks!
Oh my God.. here we go again, This is the best firewall..etc !! That's enough man because I've bought 3 minipc's so far because of you :) thank you for the video
So I picked up one of these, bought direct from CWWK via Amazon, and I did not get some of the additional accessories or the newer daughter board. That said, I have Proxmox installed and updated, installed OPNsense into a VM and OPNsense can get an IP from my ISP modem/router but it isn't passing any internet through to the LAN connection and I'm having a heck of a time trying to figure out why. The LAN interface does give my PC an IP via DHCP but no internet access. I feel I'm missing something simple but for the life of me cannot figure it out.
@@WOWIMEXCITED Apparently was a bug/issue with Proxmox 8 and how it was handling networking. Installed Proxmox 7.4, got everything working, did an in place update to Proxmox 8 and everything is working great.
The pysical toggle switches on that newer H board thing sitching the PCIe 3.0 lanes is absolutely cursed! I love it. Next I want a mainboard with pysical radio buttons on the front to switch through PCIe slots lol
have one in same form factor with N100 CPU, running OpenWRT today getting home, ambient ~27c, CPU was reading 59c, but NVME SSD was reading 71c, and those metal fins were hot to the touch. Wonder if SSD can sustain to run at 71c for long period of time?
Love this it’s perfect: Passively cooled, silent, with adapter for 4 nvme drives, n305 processor BUT the power consumption is too high. Like you said in your Beelink EQ12 Pro review the level of engineering here is not on par with HP/Dell The idle power consumption should be approximately 5 watt Does anyone have tried to undervolt it?
Synology is forcing me with security updates to use CLI just to look at SMART data. Going to switch to this with TrueNAS and have control over features and simplicity I want as apposed to being under the thumb of corporate whims.
Great review. Covered everything except one question... Does this come back up after a power glitch unattended? This is probably a really stupid question, sorry. I bought a fanless mini-PC to use as a home server but it did not reboot on a power glitch. The hardware required a human to cycle the power button! This makes it extremely unreliable on my glitchy power grid. I don't need a UPS, just need the thing to come back up after a power outage. Does this come back up unattended? I see on Amazon the it has "Auto power on" nuff said?
CWWK is advertising a lot of the n100 and n200 as 8 cores. I can't seem to find any on Amazon for the n305. Thank you for covering it. I am looking to buy one and was looking for your insight!
Hello. I've watched your previous video "HUGE UPGRADE! New Firewall Router Virtualization Host" which covers N100 and N200 CPUs. That enclosure has N305 version too. There are also versions for N100 and N200 using enclosure present in this video. It seems that motherboard design is the same. Which enclosure is better for cooling? There is also one important aspect you didn't highlight in any video. Can this device enter S3 power state mode i.e suspend to ram? I've seen some of Intel N100 Mini PCs, which support only "Modern Standby" S0idle state. It means they will still consume those ~6W even in sleep mode.
Is this a good option for setting up a Minecraft server, or would there be something you could get that eschewed the additional ethernet ports to be a bit cheaper?
I really want to build a small NAS out of one of these. Just a simple mirror RAID nas, but 8tb nvme is still quite expensive. Hopefully soon they will be more affordable.
What happens when the battery fails, and it reboots? Will it hang on boot? Also, how good is watching TH-cam videos in Firefox running on this, views from this acrossvia a Windows Remote Desktop or VNC connection?
OK I am super glad the MSP for the i3 N305 was not firm because this whole computer is under the MSP of just the processor. I'm probably going to pick one up I had a shitfit when i saw that the i3-N305, and i3-1215U/1315U had the same exact $309 MSP Despite the N305 being less than 1/2 the processor -No P cores vs 2 P cores -1/2 the GPU cores at a lower clock speed -Single channel memory vs dual channel(also limited to 4800 instead of 5600) -an effecitve firmware limit of 16GB of RAM where as the other i3 in theory supported anywhere between 128GB and 512GB depending on if they will support 4 of the future 128GB SODIMMs that should be part of the DDR5 standard -9 lanes of PCIe 3.0 as opposed to what appears to be 20 lanes of PCIE 4.0(or more likely 20 lanes of mixed 4.0 and 3.0)
new N series is about power effect...Aso I think n100 is better than n305 about price. N305 is overkill for nas and router but not strong enough for heavy task...
@@vuhuy8952 The difference between N100 and N305 is 4 E cores, clock speeds, and 3x the MSP The 1215U has a TDP 6w higher than the N305, and with the extra P cores, you can just downclock the 1215U to be similar performance to the N305 at the same power usage, but then you get the same or FAR better performance and features. I literally cannot see the use case for an N305 over a 1215U/1315U with both of them costing $309 Now the N305 clearly is not $309, because this whole computer is only $299, but when the N305 was first announced i was super upset, almost as bad as Nvidia taking the replacement for the 12GB 3060, calling it the 12GB 4080, and setting the MSRP at $899 instead of $329
Great video thank you. What device do you recommend for a PfSense firewall with intrusion detection and prevention on? My internet is 1gb up and down? Thanks.
You'd effectively get ~1GB/s per drive, which is fine considering the fastest you can get data in and out of it is 1.25GB/s. That's with all the NICs going all at once.
Hi Patrick! what is your view on pentium gold 8505 based mini pc? similar in price, power, features, and same shell, even. having 6 threads instead of 8, but that 1 big core can help with some jobs.
Also a good option. For a desktop, I would probably take the 8505. For a firewall or virtualization appliance I probably prefer the N305 since it is all E-core and has more physical cores.
With virtualization, memory is king. I'd love a unit like this with dual memory slots. Trading a bit of memory bandwidth against memory capacity would be no problem for me.
Agreed about the memory! Just a couple of points for others to reference: - All Intel 'N' chips are limited (crippled?) to single channel memory (so you'll never see a board with 2 slots) - Intel officially say 16GB is the Max memory, but I've seen a few TH-camrs get it to work with 32GB
@@DerekGreen123 Tell you what.. I have a Topton N5105 NAS board that supports only 16GB but it has 2 SO-DIMM slots. I'm now running ESXi 7.0 with 64GB (2x Crucial 32GB SO-DIMM) on it. Works a treat. The 16GB limit is purely marketing, I think Intel uses the same memory controller as on other CPU dies that support more.
@@DerekGreen123 Well ... I threw a 32GB DDR5 SO-DIMM from Crucial into my N100 and that worked out of the box. No idea what special tasks you would need to do to get it to work - I did nothing ;-) I think I have read that it might work with 48GB as well.
Wish CWWK or Topton (or both) made a mobo with the i3-N305 with the 4 2.5 nics but more sata ports. A real nas board, that in a node 304 would be awesome.
@@kevincheng4739 Hey Kevin, awesome of you taking the time to respond to my comment. What would be the best way to be notified when this board arrives? Thanks a lot!
Our company does not have a channel on youtube, thank you for reminding me. We will create a channel to post our company's product updates.@@JelleRevyn
It's amazing what they can cram into these tiny baby low power systems these days... And that quad M.2 card would definitely be great for a cache. Maybe have network bootable images in there
Can you please test the monoprice slimrun cat 6a lineup? They barely have any testing, many anecdotes of failing at 10G at the shortest or longest (10ft) patchcord lengths.
My N100 firwall is heating like crazy. Only Opnsens installed with no extra packages, but it sill goes to around 70 degree celsius. what could be the problem
Just curious -- why would you want to install proxmox and then pf/opnsense on top of it if only wanting a firewall?? Why the hypervisor if only going to use pf/opnsense?
You are correct, there is no need. Some folks like to have an additional Linux VM on the same box. Another good use case though, and one that I did for a LONG time is to be able to roll-back config changes almost instantly (
proxmox just gives you fine grained control and freedom to use it in various ways, think of forwarding 4x m.2 pci-e 1x drives to some virtual machine with NAS or Docker - for home usage there wouldn't be many users (1 to 6 usually), so even having 8 powersaving cores to deal with 15 docker containers simultaneously being 4x2.5Gbit router shouldn't be a problem
I haven't used proxmox but rather xcp-ng and I've had pfsense virtualized for over three years...for the most part it works pretty well but as I'm going in my knowledge and trying more advanced network setups I'm really running into some strange problems..like asymmetric routing..that I've only discovered after posting many many places and doing a bunch of reading and experimentation. Possibly it's an xcp-ng thing and not a proxmox things however the general consensus is because it's a virtualized setup. I'm very much contemplating just adding another device or two for a bare metal router setup and not virtualize this particular part of my network. I will say having the ability to instantly roll back to a saved snapshot is awesome with the vms, but I might be able to accomplish this if using zfs with pfsense and having it zfs send receive to my truenas core zfs setup. It's probaby not as convenient for sure but it's a backup.
Is it possible for you to review the fanless mini pc from Topton with the Ryzen 7 5800? (Topton FU02). It's on alie for about $300 if ordered without ram/wifi/ssd. It's not really a server/firewall mini pc as it doesn't have a whole load of nic's, but more a normal fanless mini pc. I can't post a link because youtube will delete this post, but it's easy to find on alie. The reason I ask here is because this channel is pretty much the only channel that reviews fanless mini pc's in depth, but mainly mini pc's for server/firewall purpose. I think reviewing a normal cheap but powrful fanless minipc is a good addition. There are lots of reviews for intel NUC's etc out there, but they are all with fans.
Awesome but when I read about Intel i226-v, users literally talk nothing but the issues with this chipset. So how is it now? Is it a issue with the chipset or the drivers?
@@JB-fh1bb Apparently the newest Intel Desktop processors 12th and 13th gen support ECC again. However only if you buy the W-series motherboard that Intel wants you to buy. Which sucks. And laptop, und SBC ECC is completely missing in action.
Hi, I got one of these at a garage sale and I'm trying to determine the specifications. I only have the unit. I was able to open the back but I'm not sure how much ram or ssd is in here...?? Any advice? Thank you
It would be really cool if you”d get your hands on CWWK M1. It should be very similar hardware but in much nicer looking package. One thing I wonder about it is whether its fan is quiet or not?
Any way to cap the power draw and power this with POE+? I've got a brocade switch and this unit and I need to get a POE splitter but it would be slick to have my switch management port also be the power for this. Anyone 3D print/design rack mount brackets for this yet?
Here is the question. This one or the or one with the Intel Pentium Gold 8505? What I really like with the second one, is that it supports 64GB memory instead of just 32GB. But is it possible to reduce the PL2 from 55W to e.g. 30W to use less energy?
A DDR5 DIMM is dual channel but half the channel width (plus some ECC) of DDR4. So folks in the industry still call a DDR5 slot a channel. Here is our video with all you want to know about DDR5 th-cam.com/video/CG5ontMa8kw/w-d-xo.html In the future, things get more like what you are thinking with MCR DIMMs where each side of the DIMM is muxed giving you effectively DDR5-8800 speeds in servers, but that is not until 1H 2024 www.servethehome.com/what-is-a-mcr-dimm-or-multiplexer-combined-ranks-dimm-sk-hynix-micron-samsung-intel-amd-nvidia/
I would love to see these things with either a serial port or some other means of remote control - I don't like that I have to have mouse/keyboard (or piKVM) connected to get into the bios.
@@casperghst42 yeah good question - all the description regarding BIOS says is: "auto power on, GPIO, Wake on lan, PXE, Watchdog etc" Maybe the GPIO setting? I'll be setting mine up hopefully this weekend and will try and remember to check!
Why do people always complain in these reviews? It should have dual DDR5, USB3, etc. It's a value PC; if you want better specs, buy a premium PC. I specifically love that this manufacturer transfers hardware savings to the consumer (me).
You can ZFS mirror two SSDs and then run pi-hole and more in VMs and a backup server on this as well with cores to spare. You can see our N100 and N200 version if you just want a backup and pi-hole box.
The proxmox thing happened to me very frequently with different machines. It usually installs OK, reboot OK, and then misteriously the name of the interface you were attached to initially changes when you reboot after creating a linux bridge, so the machine obviously becomes inaccessible. You need to then find the new interface name and readd it to the bridge and now it's that. Annoying but hey.
The reason of USB 2.0 is not enough PCIe lanes from the CPU. total of 9 lanes, i226 takes one lane each, the x4 m.2, the m.2 wifi.
the CPU (the SoC) has an integrated USB 3.0 controller so pcie isn't used for that anyway. I suspect that it is using dual-purpose pins in the BGA though because 14 usb 3.0 is a pretty damn lot of contacts. So to expose the pcie they could not use the same pins to do USB 3.0
USB10 is shared with PCIe 3.0 x4 for NVMe - so yes - if the NVMe slot is 4x then there are no pins left for USB 3.0
You can see the extra pins for USB3 in each port and the number of passives next to the connector on the PCB suggest the ports are wired for USB3. If the other replys are correct and the CPU shares USB3 pins on the package with PCIE pins for the NVME, then there should be a BIOS setting to set the M.2 slot for PCIE x2 instead of x4 and the USB ports should work as USB3. That's assuming the manufacturer did everything right.
@@blazini They used the similar PCB for higher end model that uses 11/12th gen mobile CPU. The presence of USB3 pins and miss-printed chassis label could just be recycled design across different models. I agree that the n305/n100 SoC have built-in USB3 controller, it is left for manufacturer to configure to expose the trace of either PCIE lanes or USB3 to the motherboard, in a similar fashion that M.2 slot electrically support either nvme or sata-protocol SSD.
Most of these units that have the N305/N100 in them have a x3 M.2 and the second M.2 running off the "h" adapter is actually PCIE x1 ( OUCH ). You are correct in that it is not enough lanes... It is what it is. The second M.2 is arguably only usable for a wifi adapter; a waste for a NVME drive.
I picked up one of these N305 guys when saw the other video about its smaller sibblings. Proxmox 8, opnsense with nic passthrough, a docker host and some LXC containers and it runs my network with capacity to spare! It's got enough muscle to route more than a gigabit of wiregaurd VPN traffic without a problem.
Big thanks to everyone in the forums who dug in deep to how these fanless badboys work
my 4105 is still chewing along very happily.. about to switch it out for a dual ssd'd 5105 unit with 226's and 64gb ram
Hi. And the temps are good?
@porklaser are you running docker as a VM?
@@gittin_funky Yeah the docker host is a vm running Ubuntu server
Are you connecting your NICs LAN port to a switch?
Every time you drop a video, I think, "Yep, I need one!" Love the channel, love the energy.
Ha thanks!
4 ssd in a firewall box like this could be interesting for caching.....
Or for container storage or storing logs without eating up network bandwidth. Nice to have data storage on a separate drive than os
We are planning to do a new video if we can get the cooling under control for it
@@ServeTheHomeVideodefinitely interested in seeing this. I can think of so many configurations I'd like to test. Cooling could definitely become an issue depending on use case and environment. In the server rack in the past ive had some success putting small devices like this by an exhaust fan for more airflow - wiring can get messy tho.
@@christopherjackson2157 Slightly off-topic: How are you handling AC adapters for these sorts of devices in racks?
@@blahblahblahblah2933 . Two sided tape on top of a rackmount chassis in a pinch. If you have a space tied down to a rackshelf can be pretty secure tho. in my homelab I have a shelf with slits in it and I use zip ties to secure smaller devices to it. I'd be interested in hearing if anyone else has a better solution.... Not entirely satisfied with anything I've come up with yet.
Run alpine from ram, use 4 4tb SSDs in raidz1, easy 12tb mini flash nas… likely major heat issues though.
Oooh this is why n6000 barebone units are going for $120 nowadays.
Link please :p
Great to see low power appliances like this. I recently purchased an inexpensive Beelink S12 Pro (N100) which comes with an empty SSD slot. Combining this with an 8TB Samsung SSD made it the perfect Proxmox Backup Server for home use. 7W power use from the wall with the SSD + 16GB RAM.
I was looking at the same one the entire pc is something like £170 and just the n100m asrock motherboard is £150 way too expensive for only the motherboard
@@HHX_H you mean, "... way too inexpensive for an entire pc."
you probably meant it comes with an empty 2.5" SATA bay.
One thing I'm really curious about is the NICs. I have a CWWK N4000. It has two i226-V NICs (all I need for a firewall). I have been running OPNsense on it since it has supported those NICs for a while. An issue I keep running into with this CWWK unit is that the system doesn't seem to respond to multicast messages used for uPnP. I have configured all the correct services and rules on the firewall to allow uPnP functionality. I also verified my config on an old Intel PC I had lying around so I know it works.
I use uPnP for some games I play as well as my Plex server. I know I can manually create the NAT rules myself but this issue has me very curious if anyone else who has used CWWK devices has run into this issue. If so, do all their products with i226-V NICs have this problem? Have you tested this at all?
Have you solved this ?
@@Andrew_Thrift Unfortunately. no. This seems to be a limitation in the hardware. I ended up building a new firewall with more reputable hardware.
The hardware has nothing to do with multicast support, that is handled by your network stack in your OS. In other words: You have a software configuration issue, not a hardware issue.
@@kelu7463 Except changing the NIC did in fact fix the issue in this case. I finally had time to find out why. I ran a bunch of tests and it seems the multicast MAC filtering in the “bad” NIC wasn’t working correctly. That filtering mechanism is built into the NIC’s chipset. That is definitely a hardware issue. However, to your point, not all things NIC hardware live at layer 1. It’s entirely possible to have higher layer features implemented in hardware. Layer 3 switches are a good example of that. Regardless, from a user’s perspective, this was a hardware failure and it was solved by replacing the hardware (same model, same driver).
Nice review as always!
I do really struggle to understand your super-fast southern English, but after almost 4 years that I shhe your reels, I get at least 80%... 😀
I have the N100 topton and it’s amazing. Opnsense, home assistant and about 5 containers from tteck and a 3-5% CPU load. I put a 12CM pc fan op top powered by it’s own usb port at 5v super silent and cool. Great little home lab system that runs proxmox like a dream and super stable.
I totally agree. We just wanted to also show the bigger one since folks have been asking about it since we did the N100 / N200 review.
10:00 there has to be another chip near/on that clock chip. just seems like what there doing is adapting that 1 m.2 slot to 4 more m.2 slots via a pcie switch chip. maybe thats what the bios update is for (bifurcation)? can you peel back the black plastic to see whats underneath that???
I just love these Netgate killers, they are getting better and better over time.
I like what you called them lol. Netgate HW was always too expensive for the performance.
Hi, nice piece of hardware, especially the PCIe Lanes splitter that fits ferpectly in such a machine, very well seen. ~36 W is logic with this kinda CPU, it stays quite low for an 8 core (and very useful for a HTTP server written in Erlang:). Very good ratio quality/price, at this price for an 8 core it will be difficult to beat.
USB 2 is still VERY useful, the signalling speed of USB 3.x causes some interference with low power 2.4GHz signals, like Thread, Zigbee and Bluetooth, but I do agree, some USB 3 ports on a box like this would be a very good idea too. We need BOTH.
IPU 456A uses an Ryzen 5600U, which got the lanes. But it misses the smart 4x NVME switch. 2x USB 3.1, 1x USB-C all with 10GB and 2x USB 2, 4x 2.5GBNic. In a Package which is nearly identical. But costs more.
they have N100 version which same but have 2 usb 3.0 and 2 2.0. On taobao it"s around 110-140$ for barebone - 8/128 .
@@Elkarlo77 Do you have a model number and the place you bought it, I cant find an AMD based system with that name on AliExpress, thanks.
@@vuhuy8952 I see that on the N100/N200/N305 boxes with USB 3 or USB C, the speed of the NMVE is only x1. This means that NMVE SSD operate at lower speed (I found that 1x means 1GB/s). Only USB 2 boxes has NMVE x4 (according to CWWK website).
@@vuhuy8952link please!
Need a few more micro systems with that 4x m.2 board! Even 4x SATA would make a fairly nice little NAS for a homelab. 😊
Unfortunately, it does not seem to ship with that 4x m.2 board
@@RoycoNL was that an option or a not released yet board in the video?
@@minigpracing3068 according to their Aliexpress page it's still under development.
Every one that I've laid my hands on or seen specs for suggest that the M.2 is a 3 lane The second is a 1 lane M.2 that runs off the "h" adapter.
What about bios updates? And I hear a lot of people fearing for bringing this kind of devices in their network... scared for backdoors etc... Did someone ever checked/tested this?
what do you need bios updates for, the CPU is soldered. Nobody checked these for backdoors so it's probably not great for high security environments
@@marcogenovesi8570 You would want updated bios for new microcode in the future.
One year later, and still all the reviews are like "yeah cheap, efficient, can run this and that!" But still no one is talking about that detail.
Really shows that they are not using the systems they review 🤷🏻♂️
I wish I could find more of these systems in a 1u half depth form factor
Amen
9:56 This chip is a clock buffer, that only clones clock signal to additional drives, so only way that they could implement 4 NVMe is probably via bifurcation x4 slot to four x1 sub-slots.
And that's going to be very limited and below usual 2 PCIe lanes that even older low-end NVMe drives have.
Unclear, why even bother with NVMe then, unless you require some very niche use case with SFF build for low-throughput high-IOPS very expensive high-end SSDs, which would be very costly and highly inefficient.
@ServeTheHomeVideo Any idea where i can buy the 4x M.2 card? I just can find the doc files but no shop to order that thing.
I have to agree with you on USB unlike the other comments. Not only is USB 3 interference a solvable issue but also the QoL improvements it brings is worth it.
I would agree with the one exception being.. what does it bring other than using it to watch a movie or something from the USB stick? With a 2.5gig network, you're going to get on par speeds copying from any other 2.5gig capable network device (ok.. 1/2 the speed.. but most USB drives don't have read speeds fast enough to keep up with USB3 bandwidth).
Just wanted to chime in about the RAM... I got mine a couple of days and and paired it with a 32GB crucial sodimm and it has been fine so far, running proxmox ve. Just one pfsense vm running on it so far with no issues.
Awesome feedback.
2 weeks after, any problems yet?
Definitely a great NAS computer. Could you tell me what the power-consumption is when you optimise the bios, IE disable the GPU, use conservative memory clocks etc?
Folks in the forums have been doing this
In China, we usually buy this type of console to install Openwrt to traverse the GFW. Of course, it should be fanless, and it should also have multiple net ports, because it is designed to be used as a router.
Hi, I request for a video on the new multi nvme SSD card, whether this could serve to replace IP camera NVR and discussion about other NAS use cases. Also some thing about modifying these boxes to obtain better cooling.
Also the link to Topton N305 in description needs to be corrected.
Have you guys ever made guides for people just starting to get into this kind of stuff? For example, what kinds of projects you can use a box like this for and how to actually set up things? I know there's probably a lot of tutorials out there but I always find more to be better, some people think of different info to include or explain things in different ways which makes learning overall much more thorough when you watch multiple videos like that.
This series of boxes are quite good. I'm using CWWK N95 one for Proxmox and run OpenWRT as a guest.
But it seems there's high IO delay with N series CPU, as we can see at 16:30.
I don't know the root cause and cannot find the solution so far.
I solved the issue disabling EMMC in BIOS and delete unnecessary device file.
At 6:40, you can see a SYS_FAN connector in the bottom right. I have the same connector, but I don't know what kind of adapter I need to plug in a regular 3/4 pin fan.
Can someone please link me an example adapter or a part number so I know what I'll need to buy? Thanks!
Oh my God.. here we go again, This is the best firewall..etc !! That's enough man because I've bought 3 minipc's so far because of you :) thank you for the video
So I picked up one of these, bought direct from CWWK via Amazon, and I did not get some of the additional accessories or the newer daughter board.
That said, I have Proxmox installed and updated, installed OPNsense into a VM and OPNsense can get an IP from my ISP modem/router but it isn't passing any internet through to the LAN connection and I'm having a heck of a time trying to figure out why. The LAN interface does give my PC an IP via DHCP but no internet access. I feel I'm missing something simple but for the life of me cannot figure it out.
Sounds like a firewall issue??? Not sure.
@@WOWIMEXCITED Apparently was a bug/issue with Proxmox 8 and how it was handling networking. Installed Proxmox 7.4, got everything working, did an in place update to Proxmox 8 and everything is working great.
I subbed. Great review. I Recently started looking into getting a firewall router👍
Wow. Thanks!
The pysical toggle switches on that newer H board thing sitching the PCIe 3.0 lanes is absolutely cursed! I love it. Next I want a mainboard with pysical radio buttons on the front to switch through PCIe slots lol
Patrick, calm down! I just got the N100 you recommended a few days ago. I can't keep up :-D (very happy with it, though)
I think a LOT of people are going to be more than happy with the N100. Some just want more power and this is exciting from a technology perspective
where to find that M.2 to 4x M.2 board?
I support you because you supported me :) you Rock Patrick !!
Nice that you mentioned potential setup issues :) great informative videos, thanks!
have one in same form factor with N100 CPU, running OpenWRT today getting home, ambient ~27c, CPU was reading 59c, but NVME SSD was reading 71c, and those metal fins were hot to the touch. Wonder if SSD can sustain to run at 71c for long period of time?
Most will throttle to stay OK. Usually using a lower-power DRAM-less SSD helps with heat.
Locks like they needed the Lanes usually used by USB3 for that 4x nvme board.
Yes. 9 Lanes total. 4x for 2.5GbE ports. So they only had 5 remaining.
Love this it’s perfect: Passively cooled, silent, with adapter for 4 nvme drives, n305 processor
BUT the power consumption is too high. Like you said in your Beelink EQ12 Pro review the level of engineering here is not on par with HP/Dell
The idle power consumption should be approximately 5 watt
Does anyone have tried to undervolt it?
Is the 4x ssd board already on sale?
Synology is forcing me with security updates to use CLI just to look at SMART data. Going to switch to this with TrueNAS and have control over features and simplicity I want as apposed to being under the thumb of corporate whims.
Great review. Covered everything except one question... Does this come back up after a power glitch unattended?
This is probably a really stupid question, sorry. I bought a fanless mini-PC to use as a home server but it did not reboot on a power glitch. The hardware required a human to cycle the power button! This makes it extremely unreliable on my glitchy power grid. I don't need a UPS, just need the thing to come back up after a power outage.
Does this come back up unattended?
I see on Amazon the it has "Auto power on" nuff said?
CWWK is advertising a lot of the n100 and n200 as 8 cores. I can't seem to find any on Amazon for the n305. Thank you for covering it. I am looking to buy one and was looking for your insight!
Hello. I've watched your previous video "HUGE UPGRADE! New Firewall Router Virtualization Host" which covers N100 and N200 CPUs. That enclosure has N305 version too. There are also versions for N100 and N200 using enclosure present in this video. It seems that motherboard design is the same.
Which enclosure is better for cooling?
There is also one important aspect you didn't highlight in any video. Can this device enter S3 power state mode i.e suspend to ram?
I've seen some of Intel N100 Mini PCs, which support only "Modern Standby" S0idle state. It means they will still consume those ~6W even in sleep mode.
Is this a good option for setting up a Minecraft server, or would there be something you could get that eschewed the additional ethernet ports to be a bit cheaper?
What's the max amount of memory that works in this system? Can you use a 48GB SODIMM, or is 16GB the actual max as Intel lists?
I ordered one with 32GB
@@michieldejager6819 Please report back if it works and, if so, exact make and model ?
32GB works fine, no idea on the new 48GB SODIMM's though.
I really want to build a small NAS out of one of these. Just a simple mirror RAID nas, but 8tb nvme is still quite expensive. Hopefully soon they will be more affordable.
These look a lot like the Protectli Vault series. I've been running a Protectli router with PFSense for close to 4 years now and love it.
Protectli rebrands Yanling boxes another vendor similar to CWWK.
Patrick, your Amazon opens up an N100 version, but claims it's 8 cores. I'm not sure which version this is, it's not very clear (big surprise)
Does this thing have a switch chip for those four 2.5 ports or any switching acceleration in the NIC?
No, these are direct PCIe from each NIC to the CPU.
it's not that much of a load to do bridging 2.5gbit for modern CPU
@@marcogenovesi8570 you don't do bringing, you buy a switch...
It's intended as a router, so you want them separate, not switched. 🙂
@@ServeTheHomeVideo thanks, and @blunden2 also makes a great point re router
Where is the quad SSD board sold? And did you ever getting the cooling under control?
i wish there was one of those with a free fullsize PCIe slot so i can put a SFP+ Card in there... been looking for that wor ages.
What happens when the battery fails, and it reboots? Will it hang on boot?
Also, how good is watching TH-cam videos in Firefox running on this, views from this acrossvia a Windows Remote Desktop or VNC connection?
which monitoring tool is that at 14:40 ?
OK I am super glad the MSP for the i3 N305 was not firm because this whole computer is under the MSP of just the processor.
I'm probably going to pick one up
I had a shitfit when i saw that the i3-N305, and i3-1215U/1315U had the same exact $309 MSP
Despite the N305 being less than 1/2 the processor
-No P cores vs 2 P cores
-1/2 the GPU cores at a lower clock speed
-Single channel memory vs dual channel(also limited to 4800 instead of 5600)
-an effecitve firmware limit of 16GB of RAM where as the other i3 in theory supported anywhere between 128GB and 512GB depending on if they will support 4 of the future 128GB SODIMMs that should be part of the DDR5 standard
-9 lanes of PCIe 3.0 as opposed to what appears to be 20 lanes of PCIE 4.0(or more likely 20 lanes of mixed 4.0 and 3.0)
new N series is about power effect...Aso I think n100 is better than n305 about price. N305 is overkill for nas and router but not strong enough for heavy task...
@@vuhuy8952 The difference between N100 and N305 is 4 E cores, clock speeds, and 3x the MSP
The 1215U has a TDP 6w higher than the N305, and with the extra P cores, you can just downclock the 1215U to be similar performance to the N305 at the same power usage, but then you get the same or FAR better performance and features.
I literally cannot see the use case for an N305 over a 1215U/1315U with both of them costing $309
Now the N305 clearly is not $309, because this whole computer is only $299, but when the N305 was first announced i was super upset, almost as bad as Nvidia taking the replacement for the 12GB 3060, calling it the 12GB 4080, and setting the MSRP at $899 instead of $329
Great video thank you. What device do you recommend for a PfSense firewall with intrusion detection and prevention on? My internet is 1gb up and down? Thanks.
Hold up what is the throughput of the device with 4 drive add-in card?
it uses pcie bifurcation so it's still using the same pcie x4 connection in the M.2. It's more for capacity and redundancy than performance.
You'd effectively get ~1GB/s per drive, which is fine considering the fastest you can get data in and out of it is 1.25GB/s. That's with all the NICs going all at once.
Does it work with ESXi? Can idle power be reduced by some BIOS configuration?
Hi Patrick! what is your view on pentium gold 8505 based mini pc? similar in price, power, features, and same shell, even. having 6 threads instead of 8, but that 1 big core can help with some jobs.
Also a good option. For a desktop, I would probably take the 8505. For a firewall or virtualization appliance I probably prefer the N305 since it is all E-core and has more physical cores.
With virtualization, memory is king. I'd love a unit like this with dual memory slots. Trading a bit of memory bandwidth against memory capacity would be no problem for me.
Agreed about the memory!
Just a couple of points for others to reference:
- All Intel 'N' chips are limited (crippled?) to single channel memory (so you'll never see a board with 2 slots)
- Intel officially say 16GB is the Max memory, but I've seen a few TH-camrs get it to work with 32GB
@@DerekGreen123 Tell you what.. I have a Topton N5105 NAS board that supports only 16GB but it has 2 SO-DIMM slots. I'm now running ESXi 7.0 with 64GB (2x Crucial 32GB SO-DIMM) on it. Works a treat. The 16GB limit is purely marketing, I think Intel uses the same memory controller as on other CPU dies that support more.
@@DerekGreen123 Well ... I threw a 32GB DDR5 SO-DIMM from Crucial into my N100 and that worked out of the box. No idea what special tasks you would need to do to get it to work - I did nothing ;-) I think I have read that it might work with 48GB as well.
Could the wifi slot with an nvme adapter be used for a coral coprocessor?
Where can I get the m2 expansion board. It looks interesting to me
Any chance you know what the power consumption difference is between this and N100/200?
It is the same power meter we used for the N100/N200 here th-cam.com/video/58nVTNYrJ3E/w-d-xo.html
Wish CWWK or Topton (or both) made a mobo with the i3-N305 with the 4 2.5 nics but more sata ports. A real nas board, that in a node 304 would be awesome.
I am an official employee of CWWK, and the requirements you mentioned will be available for this product in October
@@kevincheng4739 Hey Kevin, awesome of you taking the time to respond to my comment. What would be the best way to be notified when this board arrives? Thanks a lot!
Our company does not have a channel on youtube, thank you for reminding me.
We will create a channel to post our company's product updates.@@JelleRevyn
@@kevincheng4739 Hi Kevin, we are 6 days in Oktober. Any news about this? Thanks!
@@kevincheng4739Hey Kevin, any news on this? We're almost December now. Thanks!
Holy crap, 2.5G box with expandible quad SSD...? Sign me up!!
It's amazing what they can cram into these tiny baby low power systems these days... And that quad M.2 card would definitely be great for a cache. Maybe have network bootable images in there
Can you please test the monoprice slimrun cat 6a lineup? They barely have any testing, many anecdotes of failing at 10G at the shortest or longest (10ft) patchcord lengths.
@servethehome Do you have any insight as too whether Intel will ever release (to manufacturers) the N300 chip?
My N100 firwall is heating like crazy. Only Opnsens installed with no extra packages, but it sill goes to around 70 degree celsius. what could be the problem
Where is the ssd Board available? Would really be Interessed in!
Regards
Oliver
Just curious -- why would you want to install proxmox and then pf/opnsense on top of it if only wanting a firewall?? Why the hypervisor if only going to use pf/opnsense?
You are correct, there is no need. Some folks like to have an additional Linux VM on the same box. Another good use case though, and one that I did for a LONG time is to be able to roll-back config changes almost instantly (
proxmox just gives you fine grained control and freedom to use it in various ways, think of forwarding 4x m.2 pci-e 1x drives to some virtual machine with NAS or Docker - for home usage there wouldn't be many users (1 to 6 usually), so even having 8 powersaving cores to deal with 15 docker containers simultaneously being 4x2.5Gbit router shouldn't be a problem
I haven't used proxmox but rather xcp-ng and I've had pfsense virtualized for over three years...for the most part it works pretty well but as I'm going in my knowledge and trying more advanced network setups I'm really running into some strange problems..like asymmetric routing..that I've only discovered after posting many many places and doing a bunch of reading and experimentation. Possibly it's an xcp-ng thing and not a proxmox things however the general consensus is because it's a virtualized setup. I'm very much contemplating just adding another device or two for a bare metal router setup and not virtualize this particular part of my network. I will say having the ability to instantly roll back to a saved snapshot is awesome with the vms, but I might be able to accomplish this if using zfs with pfsense and having it zfs send receive to my truenas core zfs setup. It's probaby not as convenient for sure but it's a backup.
Is it possible for you to review the fanless mini pc from Topton with the Ryzen 7 5800? (Topton FU02). It's on alie for about $300 if ordered without ram/wifi/ssd.
It's not really a server/firewall mini pc as it doesn't have a whole load of nic's, but more a normal fanless mini pc.
I can't post a link because youtube will delete this post, but it's easy to find on alie.
The reason I ask here is because this channel is pretty much the only channel that reviews fanless mini pc's in depth, but mainly mini pc's for server/firewall purpose.
I think reviewing a normal cheap but powrful fanless minipc is a good addition. There are lots of reviews for intel NUC's etc out there, but they are all with fans.
We did the fanned version: th-cam.com/video/h7U4fCj_Pos/w-d-xo.html but good idea. I just ordered the fanless model.
Can you please retest the power consumption without the giant coiled up power cord inductor?
Can you post the link for that nvme board?
Can you do a review for a mini computer that would fit under the seat of a truck for lite gaming?
The Beelink GTR7 we reviewed could be great for that, albeit maybe too high-power.
Awesome but when I read about Intel i226-v, users literally talk nothing but the issues with this chipset.
So how is it now? Is it a issue with the chipset or the drivers?
The best EVER Fanless Mini PCs will be the one that supports ECC memory ;-)
ECC fans assemble!
I wish Intel had taken low-cost ECC seriously after Ryzen showed them how it’s done.
@@JB-fh1bb Apparently the newest Intel Desktop processors 12th and 13th gen support ECC again. However only if you buy the W-series motherboard that Intel wants you to buy. Which sucks.
And laptop, und SBC ECC is completely missing in action.
Hi, I got one of these at a garage sale and I'm trying to determine the specifications. I only have the unit. I was able to open the back but I'm not sure how much ram or ssd is in here...?? Any advice? Thank you
I want to see a fanless model with performance cores though. Only thing I saw like that was the Asus PL64 that had the i5-1235u (2 performance cores)
It would be really cool if you”d get your hands on CWWK M1. It should be very similar hardware but in much nicer looking package. One thing I wonder about it is whether its fan is quiet or not?
I'm still in the honeymoon phase with proxmox and am pondering if there are certain limitations I should be looking out for.
Any way to cap the power draw and power this with POE+? I've got a brocade switch and this unit and I need to get a POE splitter but it would be slick to have my switch management port also be the power for this. Anyone 3D print/design rack mount brackets for this yet?
Are these AliExpress miniPCs safe? I’m worried about BIOS malware
Do you guys have a link for the m.2 expansion? I just ordered a unit and looking at turning it into a home media lab + firewall
Hi, Patrick, is there any chance you test Mikrotik RouterOS on these things?
Proxmox working good in it? Does it have virtualization problem?
Here is the question. This one or the or one with the Intel Pentium Gold 8505? What I really like with the second one, is that it supports 64GB memory instead of just 32GB. But is it possible to reduce the PL2 from 55W to e.g. 30W to use less energy?
How can we add cellular to this as a backup wan connection ?
Have you come across a device similar to this that has PoE on the ports?
I got 2 internet connections, how do i setup a failsafe/switchover when 1 is down?
Where can I order that 4 x M2 expansion board? @servethehome
I would ask CWWK at the order time
@@ServeTheHomeVideo I already ordered the device and have it setup. I wonder if that board came with it already
Do you know if these things use Coreboot or Libreboot?
Minor nitpick -- its a single DIMM but DDR5 is by its very nature dual channel per DIMM isn't it ?
A DDR5 DIMM is dual channel but half the channel width (plus some ECC) of DDR4. So folks in the industry still call a DDR5 slot a channel. Here is our video with all you want to know about DDR5 th-cam.com/video/CG5ontMa8kw/w-d-xo.html
In the future, things get more like what you are thinking with MCR DIMMs where each side of the DIMM is muxed giving you effectively DDR5-8800 speeds in servers, but that is not until 1H 2024 www.servethehome.com/what-is-a-mcr-dimm-or-multiplexer-combined-ranks-dimm-sk-hynix-micron-samsung-intel-amd-nvidia/
Is there a version which supports OpenCore (BIOS)? Does Protectli have an equivalent model (they support OpenCore)?
It's really have 4 pieces i226-V chip??? Or just 1 piece i226-V and 1 "switch" inside??? So can 2.5G on each port at the same time?
I would love to see these things with either a serial port or some other means of remote control - I don't like that I have to have mouse/keyboard (or piKVM) connected to get into the bios.
It has RS232 pins on the motherboard
@@fredskis89 true, but does it have console redirection for that ? Also it would be nicer if there was a console port.
@@casperghst42 yeah good question - all the description regarding BIOS says is: "auto power on, GPIO, Wake on lan, PXE, Watchdog etc" Maybe the GPIO setting? I'll be setting mine up hopefully this weekend and will try and remember to check!
N305 is a beast of a chip in this low power category. Congrats on the video, great video quality too.
Thank you!
Really wish they'd chuck a couple SFP+ ports.. or even better, make the 4 ports as a PCIe card, that can be replaced.
Why do people always complain in these reviews? It should have dual DDR5, USB3, etc. It's a value PC; if you want better specs, buy a premium PC. I specifically love that this manufacturer transfers hardware savings to the consumer (me).
It was because the previous generation was dual channel.
Is this something i could run pi-hole on, AND install SSD's to backup my important files?
also, USB 2.0 to fan to mount on top = win?
We did not use a USB fan on this one.
You can ZFS mirror two SSDs and then run pi-hole and more in VMs and a backup server on this as well with cores to spare. You can see our N100 and N200 version if you just want a backup and pi-hole box.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo You didn't, but I'd kinda need to, my room temp is around 34c
The 4 SSD H-board is certainly interesting.
The proxmox thing happened to me very frequently with different machines. It usually installs OK, reboot OK, and then misteriously the name of the interface you were attached to initially changes when you reboot after creating a linux bridge, so the machine obviously becomes inaccessible. You need to then find the new interface name and readd it to the bridge and now it's that. Annoying but hey.