I absolutely love the animation, simply because of how close it comes to being shot for shot of what we could have seen if the episodes were recovered. I love what this team did and it is a great shame they weren't given more stories to work with. I would have loved to see how they would have handled Fury from the Deep. I could imagine them nailing that Episode 3 cliffhanger.
I really like this animation, I wish they'd used this style for Web of Fear 3 It's hard to believe that for a few years, this story was the most complete one from Season 5. Not the best representation of that era honestly
1:38 😭 it's hard not to want more Planet 55. My sis and I watched this just before she went to Antarctica for a year (then we realised we should watch The Tenth Planet and watched that too). I thought the animation was alright, but a bit lacklustre compared to clips of The Moonbase that I've seen (saving up watching the whole thing), but perhaps you're right that it's actually the story that's lacklustre and stretched out too much. Also - did they say CO2 makes the Earth cooler?!??!?!!? Tenth Planet ep4 was magnificent - and surprised my sister because she didn't realise it was animated.
Thanks for the positive words about the animation, Josh. The team worked very hard to follow the original look of the episodes, mimicking the telesnaps and following along with the scripted shots and lens choices. In many ways, I actually prefer the cleaner and less fussy look of the character sets in this one when compared with some of the animations. Oh, and Qurios is actually supposed to be pronounced as "Curious" - I worked on this animation and didn't find out until afterwards, so it's an easy mistake to make!
@@JoshSnares But instead you embarrassed yourself by referring to Scientist Penley as Arden! (Haha sorry to be pedantic, I watched this story quite recently - one episode a day & it's not so bad!)
I'd like to think that the glacial pace is intentional given it's title, but realistically it's probably a result of padding out a story to make it 6 episodes long, and yeah, the production design is fantastic, the most memorable part of the production
Comparisons made for different animation styles is counter-productive. I totally agree with you in all of your comments. We need to accept and learn to appreciate the differences as well as the limitations in each style. Personally, I am just grateful for any and all attempts to bring the lost episodes back to life in any form. Sure, we all have our "wish lists" but let us be grateful for what we get.
This is one of the rare stories where if they wanted to edit it for a significantly shorter runtime, I'd approve, as you could lose quite a bit and still have the story intact.
I watched it with my 9-year-old stepdaughter and she loved it. She especially loved Patrick Troughton. (When my now-18 year old son was her age, his favorite Doctor was Patrick Troughton.)
Finally someone who shares my frustration with The Ice Warriors. So many pointless scenes praising/arguing about a computer. It was such a tough watch (despite the excellent animation) it put me off Troughton stories for almost two years.
Thanks again for another stellar documentary! I completely agree - the story was very weak.I actually wondered if it was padded as I always felt it would've worked better as a 4-parter (why did they pad so many of Troughton's stories?!). The animation itself was great! It meshed with the remaining parts of the episode and truly gave you a feeling of what the missing episodes were like. I just wish the story was better (makes you wonder if the missing episodes were really lost or someone tossed them in the bin - lol). I would love to see this animation team handle more episodes. Mebbe they can do episode 3 of Web Of Fear and replace the abomination that's there now
The Ice Warriors is a frustrating story as the production is so strong but it never comes alive. The titular monsters are visually striking but never offer anything to make them worth repeating. I quite like the animation - I remember feeling like I'd seen the story after watching them. I'm all for the approach that they took.
I don’t agree with the comments that the writer isn’t interested in the Ice Warriors. Brian Hayles created them and wrote all their return appearances in Seeds of Death (one of my favorite Troughtons) and the two Pertwees (I love Curse of Peladon; great use of the Ice Warriors here).
An interesting take on the Ice Warriors, it should have been 4 episodes and concentrated more on showing the dangers you mentioned. I suspect Robert Holmes and Phillip Hinchcliffe saw stories like this and avoided the pitfalls of a six part story by basing the story in two places (cf. Seeds of Doom, 2 episodes in Antarctica and 4 with Harrison Chase, but still essentially a six-parter). I haven’t watched the animations for ages. Looking forward to a rewatch! 😊
I've always struggled with this story. The animation is actually one of the best, really good job, but the story I just can't get into. When people say they don't like Troughton's era because it's slow and repetitive, it's this and Wheel in Space they're thinking of. Seeds of Death though? Great stuff.
I think The Ice Warriors could have got away with being a four or five parter, does drag on a bit in places. I quite like the animation, matches the original quite closely.
As the biggest Troughton lover, even this story pushes my limits. The amount of times the Warriors are just demanding answers, ("What isssss thissss?") to the fact that the Tardis team barely effect the story itself. The Warriors have always been a very mixed bag quality wise in the show, only really enjoy them in Seeds of Death and Curse of Peladon.
The trouble with watching them all back-to-back, rather than one per week as originally broadcast, is that it just makes the story drag. With a week's gap between, it would likely be a lot less noticeable.
I've got both the novelization and the DVD in my collection. While a good story, the novelization gives us more details than what we get off the DVD. And it's a shame, since Brian Hayles did a good job on this story, as well as being a favorite of Deborah Watling's.
Having watched TardisTimegirl's excellent 3D missing episodes animation of "Wheel" here on TH-cam, these BBC animations look rather twee, by comparison. Better than nothing, though. (Which is sadly the best I can say).
The lack of wide shots in telesnaps, reconstructions and a certain someone's ai reconstructions drives me absolutely insane. The B&W era of Doctor Who is all about the wides for me. It's basically theatre
I like this story and the animation is very good, but The Ice Warriors feels like a test run for the much superior Seeds of Death, which is one of my favourite stories of all time. Many of the ideas in Warriors are better explored in Seeds.
A few years ago I was marathoning the B/W era. I also had a jacket with several holes in it and I knew sewing the holes up would take an hour or two. I did my sewing while watching this story because I remembered it wasn’t that interesting so I was happy to split my attention.
Another great review, Josh! It was a favourite Target book so I'm probably kinder to the story than the transmitted version merits. Seeing the short clips you included, I'm really glad they did keep the group shots and the smaller sets to try to recreate the story 'as it would have looked'. I hate the huge, flat background sets in 'Fury' as they destroy any sense of base-under-siege claustrophobia. I'll give this story another watch now (but not all in one sitting!). Looking forward to your next one.
God I wish the show would focus on how weird and peculiar the Ice Warriors are… rather than just turning them into another generic Cyberman-esq killing machine 😭
I absolutely agree on this story being an absolute slog to get through. I've watched it 3 times: Once with my dad, once with my sister, and once with my dad's mum. I dread when I eventually get round to this story with my mum's dad and have to suffer through it yet again. Idk why the producers thought that 6-parters were the way to go around this era. It gets even worse in Season 7 with all the 7-parters.
Im just glad the missing episode where animated, i hope in the future they can keep it acurate from the telesnaps because i just dont like the newer releases because they dont feel that good, but i still love the macra terror, the faceless ones and the evil of the daleks
The Savages animation looks great from the coming soon video. For once I am really looking forward to an animation release. Don't get me wrong I love that they are animating lost stories, it's just as someone said, so hit and miss. I just watched the fan animated Wheel In Space over the last few nights, and I was tremendously surprised. At first I wasn't that impressed, but by the end of it, I think it's the best animation I've seen.
I have a big soft spot for this story because I first saw it before the Enemy of the World and Web of Fear were found. As a result this was one of the few stories of series 5 that I could watch for the most part. Also for a while on VHS there was condensed versions of episodes 2 and 3.
There's no way this needed to be six parts. Four would have been fine, or maybe two. I really hated the notion that the Doctor is technophobic that infested the late 1st and early 2nd Doctor era and I am glad they dropped it. It makes ... no sense. The TARDIS is a computer crammed with other computers. You can't be a technophobic time traveller. You mention the excessive focus on the science but the science in this story is garbage. He says the abandonment of crops CLENT: " So, the amount of growing plants on the planet, was reduced to an absolute minimum." DOCTOR: "No plants, no carbon dioxide." That's the opposite of how it works. Over the full cycle plants produce oxygen and take in carbon dioxide. I almost gave up at that point.
The novelisation was one I re-read back in the 70s, and came across as a great story. Perhaps they had to pad things out for the TV as when I watched the completed serial on DVD, it wasn't as engaging. I'll give the animated episodes of this another go. All the animated reconstructions are variable, the only awful one is Web #3. But who would have ever thought we would be in a situation today where the lost stories are being resurrected one by one!
They have such great potential which is actually used in the next two stories with them the seeds of death and curse of paladon. I absolutely love CoP and that is in a great part due to the ice Warriors that are incredibly interesting and far more complex. Also that story is only 4 episodes long and has actually something to say
Absolutely nothing wrong with the animation in this story and it looks really great .totally agree with you josh that the story telling is pretty dull for most of the time and it really should of been a four parter . But I guess we can be very thankful for the four episodes that remain intact .
I still enjoy watching the ice warriors. I think the animation works for that episode. It’s definitely not terrible. Never found story boring but isn’t my favourite episode Troughton story. Can’t beat invasion animation. So good you don’t think you’re watching animation in that episode.
@@JoshSnares Same here! I've been watching Classic Who with my sister and we're watching Season 7 at the moment. We're nearly halfway thru Ambassadors and it's really unpleasant to look at, as well as the last story.
As far as faithful to the source material/telesnaps goes, this is far and away the best animation. I have no complaints! I wish The Reign of Terror had been done in this style. And Web 3. The character art is really nice I think. For completely missing stories I like the more creative and stylised approach, but this is a great approach for filling in the gaps.
Obviously, I feel the need to comment and say The Ice Warriors is one of my favorite Second Doctor stories, up there with The Mind Robber. It's a brilliant piece of science fiction and I think the show could do with more episodes like it. I personally think the animation was pretty underwhelming, though
All Doctor Who stories six parts or longer suffer from slow pacing and padding. They all would have worked better as four parters, but this would have meant either a shorter season or spending money that they didn't have to produce another story. Patrick Troughton's performance is always something I focus on when the slow pacing and padding drag a story down. I don't have any distinct memories of the animated episodes from this one. I will have to rewatch it.
I thought the animation was good, a precursor to what was to come animation wise. The script though, a page turner it is not. As much as I love the Troughton era this is my least favorite Ice Warriors story. I prefer the seeds of death, both Peladon stories, and both modern who ice warrior stories.
Nice try, but the whole story and animation just send me off to sleep. I think part of the reason was the reverence this story had amongst older fans for years, when it was completely lost. I remember the novel as being enjoyable, unlike Enemy of the World. There's irony for you!
I recommend checking out the Whoniversals video "Artificial Intelligence and the Ice Warriors". It changed my mind on a lot of the arguments about the computer in this story.
The ice warriors is quite mellow, I did get through it easily by having a sweet in my mouth but I don't think its as good as the first half of enemy of the world. Considering this is a base under siege with about ten characters, at least they didn't animate one episode of Marco Polo, or two episodes of the Massacre. The fact that they ran out of money makes me think if they would have benefitted from only animating the Tenth Planet 4 or Mission to the Unknown.
I was so disappointed with your review of the Ice Warriors storyline. Yes it is slow, but I don't think it's as bad as you make it sound. I usually agree with your reviews, so I was quite shocked. All of the longer stories from the Hartnell to Pertwee era's are too long. I find all of the Dalek episodes from the Hartnell Era to be full of padding. Especially the Dalek Masterplan and the Chase. Phenomenal stories but overlong. They all have their redeeming points though.
"They say our love won't pay the rent..." [see what I did there?] You're right on the money Josh - judging each animation as a stand-alone is the only fair critical starting point. The BBC have batted around the commissions to so many companies at this point that only a couple have any real experience or progression to hold other releases up against. I thought the animation was fine - save for the fact of Arden's [Peter Sallis] 'Fuzzy Felt' beard - which looks like 'Fuzzy Felt' in the live action as well [what is it with 60's Doctor Who and crappy hair? Colin Jeavons' huge eyebrowed Atlantian in Underwater Menace, Fringe-o-rama in Macra Terror and (soon) The Savages?]. My real gripe comes, as you say, from the story itself - Oh no, a monster is attacking the Weathertronic Orgasmo-Ray - what are we going to do..?!! Wasn't that the plot of every third story in the Troughton era??? As a premise, fair enough, but at least do something original with the story progression... but 'no', we'll just make the monsters go a bit wibbly-wobbly by turning their obvious single weakness against them using two bin lids, and reset the Orgasmo-circuits back to 'jolly hockey-sticks' again, it'll be fine..!
I would like to see the redesigned Ice warriors return in a world building arch. However, I wouldn't want RTD to write it, i would like to see him give a new writer a shot at fleshing them out. I also don't necessarily think the design has to stay the same, you could always show a evolutional change of the Ice Warriors from the last time we saw them.
I like this story a fair bit. I didn't go into it with high expectations when I first saw it since I found the other Troughton Ice Warriors story as dull as Josh did this one, but I found it an atmospheric and compelling story. I thought the animation was fine and it certainly fits together with the surviving episodes better than most of the animations of missiong stories.
I didnt really like the overly cartoony look of these animated episodes admittedly, but i LOVED the shot for shot faithfulness to the telesnaps. Ill still gladly take any BBC animation over AI recreations composed of 90% "from the shoulder up" talking shots. Honestly though? im really curious what other stories by this team would have been like
I think the animation is fantastic, and the transition between the surviving and animated episodes is fairly seamless. I, honestly, prefer this compared to the Tenth Planet animation.
IMHO the only thing 'wrong' with the animation is the 'Captain Pugwash' articulation. The story is a classic base under siege and so the outside menace could be anything - in these stories it is the internal conflict of how you defend and repel. And here is where as you correctly point out it is let down. The characters in particular Storr and Clent are just one dimensional wilfully ignorant blockers. In the opening act the Doctor shows them that relying on a computer would have got them all killed but yet Clent is in capable of listening and so they spend the next five episode bouncing off each other until Penley does what he should have done before the Doctor arrived and takes control of the base and saves the day. The story should be commended for the location footage at Elstree and the use of cut-ins really lifts the production.
This serial is the first of the animated I watched. I don't recall having any negative impressions but it's likely I was so wowed that I overlooked them. Six parters tend to be too long for my taste in any story.
I prefer the detailed ones. The cartoon-y animation is fine, but not for me, it puts me off from the story. I do appreciate the effort in reconstruction put into this one.
Did the writer do good research though? The planet freezes because of the lack of plants to produce carbon dioxide..?! And I thought the animation was fine too. The worst animation of the DVD era is definitely better than the worst of the Blu-ray era, even excluding Web of Fear.
3/5, don't hate it but can't love it 😂 . I still ONLY call them Martians btw ... Can't bring myself to call the race 'ice warriors' ... Seems stupid lol
The story didn't have anything to do with Quatermass. The inspiration came from Eugene Pfizenmayer's 1901 discovery of a preserved Wooly Mammoth in SIberia.
@@endofthelane1 apart from the 3 Martians getting woken up in a space craft? Directly from Quatermass and the Pit...just like the London Underground in Web of Fear...and the Abominable Snowmen being a rip off of a film starring Peter Cushing and written by the same writer as Quatermass, Peter Cushing who had played Doctor Who a couple years earlier...you'll find most Troughton stories are Quatermass "inspired"
Somewhere between 9:16 @ 9:18 I totally spaced out at how boring your description of how boring the repeating commentary was. It's very existence is a black hole to good entertainment.
I absolutely love the animation, simply because of how close it comes to being shot for shot of what we could have seen if the episodes were recovered. I love what this team did and it is a great shame they weren't given more stories to work with. I would have loved to see how they would have handled Fury from the Deep. I could imagine them nailing that Episode 3 cliffhanger.
I like the animation because of it's style being just like the actual episodes.
A glacial pace, I see what you did there.
Very ironically, considering it's about a glacier that's moving too fast.
I love these videos, they’re such a good start to my day! Thanks Josh you little cute
I really like this animation, I wish they'd used this style for Web of Fear 3
It's hard to believe that for a few years, this story was the most complete one from Season 5. Not the best representation of that era honestly
Is it me or is Josh turning into Matt Smith?!
1:38 😭 it's hard not to want more Planet 55.
My sis and I watched this just before she went to Antarctica for a year (then we realised we should watch The Tenth Planet and watched that too).
I thought the animation was alright, but a bit lacklustre compared to clips of The Moonbase that I've seen (saving up watching the whole thing), but perhaps you're right that it's actually the story that's lacklustre and stretched out too much. Also - did they say CO2 makes the Earth cooler?!??!?!!?
Tenth Planet ep4 was magnificent - and surprised my sister because she didn't realise it was animated.
If you have ever had to deal with an AI Drive-thru attendant or a AI customer service chat bot, then you know--'Computer bad.'
Thanks for the positive words about the animation, Josh. The team worked very hard to follow the original look of the episodes, mimicking the telesnaps and following along with the scripted shots and lens choices. In many ways, I actually prefer the cleaner and less fussy look of the character sets in this one when compared with some of the animations. Oh, and Qurios is actually supposed to be pronounced as "Curious" - I worked on this animation and didn't find out until afterwards, so it's an easy mistake to make!
Thank you!
I had a feeling I was saying Qurios wrong, I tried to say it only once and twice to avoid embarrassing myself! 😅
@@JoshSnares But instead you embarrassed yourself by referring to Scientist Penley as Arden! (Haha sorry to be pedantic, I watched this story quite recently - one episode a day & it's not so bad!)
@@ThatsChroma omg no!!!!!!! 😭😭
I will accept the title of World's Worst Doctor Who Fan
I'd like to think that the glacial pace is intentional given it's title, but realistically it's probably a result of padding out a story to make it 6 episodes long, and yeah, the production design is fantastic, the most memorable part of the production
Story so dull you mixed up scientist Arden and Penley 😅
Comparisons made for different animation styles is counter-productive. I totally agree with you in all of your comments. We need to accept and learn to appreciate the differences as well as the limitations in each style. Personally, I am just grateful for any and all attempts to bring the lost episodes back to life in any form. Sure, we all have our "wish lists" but let us be grateful for what we get.
This is one of the rare stories where if they wanted to edit it for a significantly shorter runtime, I'd approve, as you could lose quite a bit and still have the story intact.
Great overview
I watched it with my 9-year-old stepdaughter and she loved it. She especially loved Patrick Troughton. (When my now-18 year old son was her age, his favorite Doctor was Patrick Troughton.)
I don't understand why Josh only has 30k subscribers.
Wow, do you really lose sleep over that?
@@sg-zd8eb No ... I just think he has original interesting content.
He's a secret. Don't tell anybody.
Also: youbute aglorthmi.
I've never understood the hate for the animation. It's fluid, clean, and does its job well. There's nothing wrong with it.
We just feel there's even less wrong with the other one. You know the one.
Yes I love this too.Would prefer it if they only animated the missing episodes in the story like they did here
I'm going to be honest here: between the Ice Warriors and the Yeti, I think somebody in the BBC design department was really into gigantic butts.
the animation reminded me of "Ivor the engine" if anyone remembers that
Very flat and only one part of the scene moving the rest still.
Finally someone who shares my frustration with The Ice Warriors. So many pointless scenes praising/arguing about a computer. It was such a tough watch (despite the excellent animation) it put me off Troughton stories for almost two years.
Thanks again for another stellar documentary! I completely agree - the story was very weak.I actually wondered if it was padded as I always felt it would've worked better as a 4-parter (why did they pad so many of Troughton's stories?!). The animation itself was great! It meshed with the remaining parts of the episode and truly gave you a feeling of what the missing episodes were like. I just wish the story was better (makes you wonder if the missing episodes were really lost or someone tossed them in the bin - lol). I would love to see this animation team handle more episodes. Mebbe they can do episode 3 of Web Of Fear and replace the abomination that's there now
The Ice Warriors is a frustrating story as the production is so strong but it never comes alive. The titular monsters are visually striking but never offer anything to make them worth repeating.
I quite like the animation - I remember feeling like I'd seen the story after watching them. I'm all for the approach that they took.
I don’t agree with the comments that the writer isn’t interested in the Ice Warriors. Brian Hayles created them and wrote all their return appearances in Seeds of Death (one of my favorite Troughtons) and the two Pertwees (I love Curse of Peladon; great use of the Ice Warriors here).
An interesting take on the Ice Warriors, it should have been 4 episodes and concentrated more on showing the dangers you mentioned. I suspect Robert Holmes and Phillip Hinchcliffe saw stories like this and avoided the pitfalls of a six part story by basing the story in two places (cf. Seeds of Doom, 2 episodes in Antarctica and 4 with Harrison Chase, but still essentially a six-parter).
I haven’t watched the animations for ages. Looking forward to a rewatch! 😊
Great review of the animation and the story in general. I think you meant Penley, not Arden
I've always struggled with this story. The animation is actually one of the best, really good job, but the story I just can't get into. When people say they don't like Troughton's era because it's slow and repetitive, it's this and Wheel in Space they're thinking of. Seeds of Death though? Great stuff.
I think The Ice Warriors could have got away with being a four or five parter, does drag on a bit in places. I quite like the animation, matches the original quite closely.
As the biggest Troughton lover, even this story pushes my limits. The amount of times the Warriors are just demanding answers, ("What isssss thissss?") to the fact that the Tardis team barely effect the story itself. The Warriors have always been a very mixed bag quality wise in the show, only really enjoy them in Seeds of Death and Curse of Peladon.
Excellent review as ever Josh.
The trouble with watching them all back-to-back, rather than one per week as originally broadcast, is that it just makes the story drag. With a week's gap between, it would likely be a lot less noticeable.
I've got both the novelization and the DVD in my collection. While a good story, the novelization gives us more details than what we get off the DVD. And it's a shame, since Brian Hayles did a good job on this story, as well as being a favorite of Deborah Watling's.
Having watched TardisTimegirl's excellent 3D missing episodes animation of "Wheel" here on TH-cam, these BBC animations look rather twee, by comparison. Better than nothing, though. (Which is sadly the best I can say).
The lack of wide shots in telesnaps, reconstructions and a certain someone's ai reconstructions drives me absolutely insane. The B&W era of Doctor Who is all about the wides for me. It's basically theatre
Yeah, wides a super important to get a sense of where everyone is in the room. Or it’s just a bunch of closeups that could be taken from anywhere!!
I like this story and the animation is very good, but The Ice Warriors feels like a test run for the much superior Seeds of Death, which is one of my favourite stories of all time. Many of the ideas in Warriors are better explored in Seeds.
Not my favorite story, but I really like the animation. It's obviously done with such care.
They should have just reversed the polarity of the ion flow
A few years ago I was marathoning the B/W era. I also had a jacket with several holes in it and I knew sewing the holes up would take an hour or two. I did my sewing while watching this story because I remembered it wasn’t that interesting so I was happy to split my attention.
Another great review, Josh! It was a favourite Target book so I'm probably kinder to the story than the transmitted version merits. Seeing the short clips you included, I'm really glad they did keep the group shots and the smaller sets to try to recreate the story 'as it would have looked'. I hate the huge, flat background sets in 'Fury' as they destroy any sense of base-under-siege claustrophobia. I'll give this story another watch now (but not all in one sitting!). Looking forward to your next one.
Buddy Josh ..great to see you again ..I do love your work..your docs are always better than anyone else puts out . I love learning with you.
People somehow like "Galaxy Four"'s animation, but hate this one... Make it make sense!
God I wish the show would focus on how weird and peculiar the Ice Warriors are… rather than just turning them into another generic Cyberman-esq killing machine 😭
I absolutely agree on this story being an absolute slog to get through. I've watched it 3 times: Once with my dad, once with my sister, and once with my dad's mum. I dread when I eventually get round to this story with my mum's dad and have to suffer through it yet again. Idk why the producers thought that 6-parters were the way to go around this era. It gets even worse in Season 7 with all the 7-parters.
Money. It’s cheaper to do more episodes on the same sets/costumes.
Im just glad the missing episode where animated, i hope in the future they can keep it acurate from the telesnaps because i just dont like the newer releases because they dont feel that good, but i still love the macra terror, the faceless ones and the evil of the daleks
The Savages animation looks great from the coming soon video. For once I am really looking forward to an animation release. Don't get me wrong I love that they are animating lost stories, it's just as someone said, so hit and miss. I just watched the fan animated Wheel In Space over the last few nights, and I was tremendously surprised. At first I wasn't that impressed, but by the end of it, I think it's the best animation I've seen.
I have a big soft spot for this story because I first saw it before the Enemy of the World and Web of Fear were found. As a result this was one of the few stories of series 5 that I could watch for the most part. Also for a while on VHS there was condensed versions of episodes 2 and 3.
I really like this animation. It’s faithful to the missing episodes and telling the story. Efficient, no bells and whistles.
There's no way this needed to be six parts. Four would have been fine, or maybe two.
I really hated the notion that the Doctor is technophobic that infested the late 1st and early 2nd Doctor era and I am glad they dropped it. It makes ... no sense. The TARDIS is a computer crammed with other computers. You can't be a technophobic time traveller.
You mention the excessive focus on the science but the science in this story is garbage. He says the abandonment of crops
CLENT: " So, the amount of growing plants on the planet, was reduced to an absolute minimum."
DOCTOR: "No plants, no carbon dioxide."
That's the opposite of how it works. Over the full cycle plants produce oxygen and take in carbon dioxide. I almost gave up at that point.
The novelisation was one I re-read back in the 70s, and came across as a great story. Perhaps they had to pad things out for the TV as when I watched the completed serial on DVD, it wasn't as engaging. I'll give the animated episodes of this another go. All the animated reconstructions are variable, the only awful one is Web #3. But who would have ever thought we would be in a situation today where the lost stories are being resurrected one by one!
I like the monsters in this story but almost fell asleep watching it
They have such great potential which is actually used in the next two stories with them the seeds of death and curse of paladon. I absolutely love CoP and that is in a great part due to the ice Warriors that are incredibly interesting and far more complex. Also that story is only 4 episodes long and has actually something to say
Absolutely nothing wrong with the animation in this story and it looks really great .totally agree with you josh that the story telling is pretty dull for most of the time and it really should of been a four parter . But I guess we can be very thankful for the four episodes that remain intact .
I still enjoy watching the ice warriors. I think the animation works for that episode. It’s definitely not terrible. Never found story boring but isn’t my favourite episode Troughton story. Can’t beat invasion animation. So good you don’t think you’re watching animation in that episode.
I like it, it reminds me of a 60s hanna barbara cartoon.
Unrelated, but I just saw that Season 7 has been announced. Why wasn't there a trailer of any kind?
So strange - I’d like to see the restoration!!
@@JoshSnares Same here! I've been watching Classic Who with my sister and we're watching Season 7 at the moment. We're nearly halfway thru Ambassadors and it's really unpleasant to look at, as well as the last story.
As far as faithful to the source material/telesnaps goes, this is far and away the best animation. I have no complaints! I wish The Reign of Terror had been done in this style. And Web 3. The character art is really nice I think.
For completely missing stories I like the more creative and stylised approach, but this is a great approach for filling in the gaps.
Obviously, I feel the need to comment and say The Ice Warriors is one of my favorite Second Doctor stories, up there with The Mind Robber. It's a brilliant piece of science fiction and I think the show could do with more episodes like it. I personally think the animation was pretty underwhelming, though
All Doctor Who stories six parts or longer suffer from slow pacing and padding. They all would have worked better as four parters, but this would have meant either a shorter season or spending money that they didn't have to produce another story. Patrick Troughton's performance is always something I focus on when the slow pacing and padding drag a story down. I don't have any distinct memories of the animated episodes from this one. I will have to rewatch it.
We don’t take too kindly to Ice Warriors slander round here! Go to the WOTAN control room and think about what you did!
Read the Book, it’s great
Omg I have never seen the one the only Josh snares talk about doctor who missing episodes let alone animation this is crazy!!! 🤯😱
I thought the animation was good, a precursor to what was to come animation wise. The script though, a page turner it is not. As much as I love the Troughton era this is my least favorite Ice Warriors story. I prefer the seeds of death, both Peladon stories, and both modern who ice warrior stories.
Nice try, but the whole story and animation just send me off to sleep. I think part of the reason was the reverence this story had amongst older fans for years, when it was completely lost. I remember the novel as being enjoyable, unlike Enemy of the World. There's irony for you!
I recommend checking out the Whoniversals video "Artificial Intelligence and the Ice Warriors". It changed my mind on a lot of the arguments about the computer in this story.
I reminds me most of the animations we've been working on in Adobe Character Animator
It sounds like a cut down colourised version would improve things? Or is it irredeemable ?I've not watched this since the noughties.
The ice warriors is quite mellow, I did get through it easily by having a sweet in my mouth but I don't think its as good as the first half of enemy of the world. Considering this is a base under siege with about ten characters, at least they didn't animate one episode of Marco Polo, or two episodes of the Massacre. The fact that they ran out of money makes me think if they would have benefitted from only animating the Tenth Planet 4 or Mission to the Unknown.
I was so disappointed with your review of the Ice Warriors storyline. Yes it is slow, but I don't think it's as bad as you make it sound. I usually agree with your reviews, so I was quite shocked. All of the longer stories from the Hartnell to Pertwee era's are too long. I find all of the Dalek episodes from the Hartnell Era to be full of padding. Especially the Dalek Masterplan and the Chase. Phenomenal stories but overlong. They all have their redeeming points though.
ice warriors my beloved ❤
"They say our love won't pay the rent..." [see what I did there?] You're right on the money Josh - judging each animation as a stand-alone is the only fair critical starting point. The BBC have batted around the commissions to so many companies at this point that only a couple have any real experience or progression to hold other releases up against. I thought the animation was fine - save for the fact of Arden's [Peter Sallis] 'Fuzzy Felt' beard - which looks like 'Fuzzy Felt' in the live action as well [what is it with 60's Doctor Who and crappy hair? Colin Jeavons' huge eyebrowed Atlantian in Underwater Menace, Fringe-o-rama in Macra Terror and (soon) The Savages?]. My real gripe comes, as you say, from the story itself - Oh no, a monster is attacking the Weathertronic Orgasmo-Ray - what are we going to do..?!! Wasn't that the plot of every third story in the Troughton era??? As a premise, fair enough, but at least do something original with the story progression... but 'no', we'll just make the monsters go a bit wibbly-wobbly by turning their obvious single weakness against them using two bin lids, and reset the Orgasmo-circuits back to 'jolly hockey-sticks' again, it'll be fine..!
Awesome Josh. Your knowledge and imagination are always bang on. Please keep posting forever 😂❤🎉❤
I would like to see the redesigned Ice warriors return in a world building arch. However, I wouldn't want RTD to write it, i would like to see him give a new writer a shot at fleshing them out. I also don't necessarily think the design has to stay the same, you could always show a evolutional change of the Ice Warriors from the last time we saw them.
I like this story a fair bit. I didn't go into it with high expectations when I first saw it since I found the other Troughton Ice Warriors story as dull as Josh did this one, but I found it an atmospheric and compelling story. I thought the animation was fine and it certainly fits together with the surviving episodes better than most of the animations of missiong stories.
I liked the part when you repeated something 3 times but it is a good pat Patrick story
I liked the part when you repeated something 3 times.
I liked the part when you repeated something three times
I didnt really like the overly cartoony look of these animated episodes admittedly, but i LOVED the shot for shot faithfulness to the telesnaps. Ill still gladly take any BBC animation over AI recreations composed of 90% "from the shoulder up" talking shots. Honestly though? im really curious what other stories by this team would have been like
100% agree on all points. Glad to see I'm not the only one who finds this story tedious.
I think the animation is fantastic, and the transition between the surviving and animated episodes is fairly seamless. I, honestly, prefer this compared to the Tenth Planet animation.
IMHO the only thing 'wrong' with the animation is the 'Captain Pugwash' articulation.
The story is a classic base under siege and so the outside menace could be anything - in these stories it is the internal conflict of how you defend and repel. And here is where as you correctly point out it is let down. The characters in particular Storr and Clent are just one dimensional wilfully ignorant blockers. In the opening act the Doctor shows them that relying on a computer would have got them all killed but yet Clent is in capable of listening and so they spend the next five episode bouncing off each other until Penley does what he should have done before the Doctor arrived and takes control of the base and saves the day.
The story should be commended for the location footage at Elstree and the use of cut-ins really lifts the production.
Not a bad story, but definitely a slog. Ok introduction for the ice warriors but seed of death is way better. Probably 2nd weakest outing
I watched it recently and really liked the animated episodes. The story wasn't all that bad either
This serial is the first of the animated I watched. I don't recall having any negative impressions but it's likely I was so wowed that I overlooked them. Six parters tend to be too long for my taste in any story.
So, Josh - what did you think of the Ioniser scenes? 😉
Is this a special interest I see Josh? 😂
I prefer the detailed ones. The cartoon-y animation is fine, but not for me, it puts me off from the story. I do appreciate the effort in reconstruction put into this one.
Did the writer do good research though? The planet freezes because of the lack of plants to produce carbon dioxide..?!
And I thought the animation was fine too. The worst animation of the DVD era is definitely better than the worst of the Blu-ray era, even excluding Web of Fear.
can’t write a good script or do good research, poor guy 😭
I agree that the Web of Fear animation is bad, but the Celestial Toymaker is the worst for me.
3/5, don't hate it but can't love it 😂 . I still ONLY call them Martians btw ... Can't bring myself to call the race 'ice warriors' ... Seems stupid lol
Yay! ❤
F oo
Another story blatantly ripped off from Quatermass but still a classic
The story didn't have anything to do with Quatermass. The inspiration came from Eugene Pfizenmayer's 1901 discovery of a preserved Wooly Mammoth in SIberia.
@@endofthelane1 apart from the 3 Martians getting woken up in a space craft? Directly from Quatermass and the Pit...just like the London Underground in Web of Fear...and the Abominable Snowmen being a rip off of a film starring Peter Cushing and written by the same writer as Quatermass, Peter Cushing who had played Doctor Who a couple years earlier...you'll find most Troughton stories are Quatermass "inspired"
Somewhere between 9:16 @ 9:18 I totally spaced out at how boring your description of how boring the repeating commentary was.
It's very existence is a black hole to good entertainment.