Why this Cycling Descent Position is Genius
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- Lanterne Rouge analyses Pello Bilbao's unusual tuck descent position in light of the supertuck ban introduced by the UCI last year, as well as comparing that position to Bilbao's teammate Mohoric' who used a dropper seatpost on the poggio descent in milano sanremo to great effect this year.
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oh boy, that saddle has gone places and seen things no innocent saddle should ever experience
This kind of makes it sound like saddles aren't constantly in contact with anus, taint, and junk, lol
@@williamdowling7718 does your saddle give you a “surprise prostate exam”? On second thought, please don’t answer that question!
this is the new "TUCK" if you know what I mean
The contact saddle jokes are not jokes anymore.
@@sharonmoller7414 we've all hit an unexpected bump at least once.
I have a design for the Vibrator Seatpost which adjusts up and down as well as forward and backward offset according to the rider’s desired position.
Bring back the supertuck! The alternative position they use now with the hands on the tops tucked under their chest is both slower and more dangerous
They should just use flat bars then
Bernal who is similar in height / weight to Bilbao, could combine his already great bike handling / descending skills with this position, he sticks out to me as another guy who could make this work. I hope he continues his speedy recovery
This seems more dangerous than the real supertuck.
This is 10x more unstable than the real supertuck
It may well be. What did the uci think would happen? Let the riders decide how to sit on their bikes. The supertuck did nothing wrong ✊🏽
Yep, the lack of a solid point of contact is evident as you see him bounce around when the bikes not.. Also puts way more load over the front wheel, making the steering twitchy.
@@martinomunaretto288 It also has to be hell a lot more exhausting and painful too.
surprise colonoscopy
It's super interesting to think about all the little physical features and quirks a riders body needs to have to do this Pello tuck
One needs the flexibility in their shoulders and elbows and strength in their upper arm to hold that position with their chest flush to the handlebars. They need the lower back flexibility to be able to keep it outstretched so there's still body contact with the saddle. And enough hip flexibility to allow their leg muscles to not need to be engaged in this position so that they don't feel that much strain. And then the neck flexibility needed to keep their head looking forward in what would be a very unnatural position if you tried it standing up. To name a few
There's a lot of variables here that can mean some riders can't efficiently get into this position simply because of their physiology
One of my favorite photos is of Pantani balls 2” from the rear wheel descending at close or at 100kmh. Like the man says “ you can’t win the Tour de France on mineral water.” The wrong guy died.
Let's remember that the supertuck was banned supposedly to improve cyclists' safety, yet most of the peloton weren't in favour of the ban. Then in so many races you see dangerous situations arising from parked cars (Amstel), road works (Turkey), lack of crowd control/separation between road and supporters (Roubaix) and this is just in the last couple of weeks. What are the UCI doing??! And why aren't the teams/riders union taking more control in these matters?
Yeah more riders were injured by one incident caused by Omi/Opi woman than by the super tuck position. Plus don't even get me started on the concussion protocol, using the word safety in the same sentence as the UCI is a bad joke.
i've been doing the "supertuck" since i was 8 years old and not me or any of my friends have ever crashed because of it... soft
This sounds a bit like whataboutism. They're doing something. Nobody claimed that the something was perfect.
I’m glad you made a video on this… I watch this live and was on the edge of my seat waiting for him to DQ’ed and am I surprised he wasn’t. Thanks for your commentary as always.
Will always think of Graham Obree when I see this riding position.
The bit of the bib shorts on the tip of the saddle is killing me lmao, this is so naughty
Dat saddle top pushing in the T H I C C C.
New steps to go fast:
1. Plug saddle directly into a$$
2. ???
3. Speed
4. breathe in breathe out
5. ENDure
Use a dropper post with rim brakes to offset the weight of the post.
Or with disc brakes, I think manufacturers are perfectly capable of building strong and safe bikes well under the weight limit.
@@Deckzwabber I'm not sure this is the case yet **if** you want to keep aerodynamics as a priority, never mind a dropper seat post! For example, Pogacar's TdF winning bike was 7.1kg and he chose to switch to rim brakes on the mountain stages.
1:08 Pello Bilbao sounds like Pay Your Bill Bow
Let's use the word "Pellotuck" enough so that it becomes part of cycling vernacular.
I use this position all the time, I also squeeze my knees against the down tube, I refer to the position as the Prostate Exam.
That position looks borderline safe, not the risk of sitting on the top tube and being a human scrunchie. And something for sure needs to be done to accommodate--it is a race, after all--this tendency to tuck on descents, droppers that slam the saddle or even some sort of flip-back post which keeps the saddle level and creates a banana-seat effect of putting the rider more over the rear wheel. And when my friends in '74 were turning their Sting-Rays into BMX bikes with parts like motorcycle handlebars and ten-speed seats, I happily kept the original banana seat on my Sting-Ray for fast seated descents down the streets of Pacifica, California. I wasn't tucking like these pros, but it was comfortable to descend at speed with my weight back and, sometimes, with a leg out in the corners like a motocross pro.
I'd say technically this should be illegal according to the rule. His ass isn't actually on the saddle, his shorts are. I wouldn't be surprised if they penalize him if he does it again. We all know they're inconsistent in how they apply the rules.
Either way, seems like a dropper post would be a better answer here if they can get it to go low enough in compliance with the saddle positioning rules.
I think this will lead to endless discussions yet again because of unclear rules (see sprint deviations). Already in these two cases it is hard to discern differences…
Saw this love back then and honestly thought the uci isnt enforcing their rules anymore like we saw many times before. You point put very nicely why this could be legal and carapaz wasnt.
3:31 the saddle pointing INTO him . . . still a GREY area. Wow! Shouldn't it be brown by now? Started out as a saddle, quickly became a Chocolate Pump! Just add NUTS! Wow UCI is that FANNY, getting right down to the bottom of things?
brown area
@@seang5476 Lanterne Rouge is color blind, obviously
the saddle is INSIDE the rider hahaha
@@LennieNelson55 clenching cheeks is useful for extra control
What are you, twelve?
Good video. Really good idea to keep the shorts on top of the saddle.
Cue the introduction of longer nosed, down curving saddles so you can still maintain "seat in saddle" but forward and down towards the top tube.
3:49 it appears to me his right shoulder/upper arm is deforming around the handlebars implying he is getting a meaningful amount of support from that contact point. That means to me the UCI should have cited this. Because they didn't It would be a shame if another rider gets DQ'd for a similar position.
LOL, the only thing this proves is that the UCI doesn’t enforce its rules consistently. He clearly has more then his hands supporting his weight on the handle bars.
@@Marty72 No they clearly don't. They ban riders for the supertuck but there are still lots of riders using their forearms as their only contact point with the handlebars (front of the pack mostly). Also, this paragraph about seating position opens up more questions. Do you have to maintain contact at all time? No free hand cycling allowed? It clearly is for a short time. Remain seated? Not allowed to get out of the saddle? It obv is allowed to get out of the saddle. Their approach to banning this is so imprecise. They should have defined what a supertuck is and ban it but these rules seem half-assed at the most.
The guy who got disqualified in the blue jersey, I wondered if when he got disqualified if it was more the way he was gripping the top tube with his thighs.
Have a look when Bilbao goes onto the nose of the saddle. His bib shorts seem to stretch or get pulled... I think he has sand paper or something that gives grip to the short. Making it appear that his weight is on the saddle.. might be wrong. Looks that way
it looks even more Aerodynamic as the bum is more in line with the rest of the body, creating a longer body where the air can flow by. instead of that abrupt end when sitting on the top tube
I don't think Matej needs a pellotuck, that man has so much confidence I reckon he could drop Pello without one. Really interesting though, can't wait to see what both guys do with their abilities in the giro and the tour.
Mohoric is a very elite descender, but hes not dropping Bilbao
Higher CG and less secure position than the norma supertuck. This honestly looks way more dangerous than supertucking
I get that they are pros and can handle their bikes. But if the point was to get ride of a “dangerous position”, it doesn’t seem like it’s done any good
I can tell you from my personal experience, at least with my body..... I feel WAY more in control than I do in a normal super tuck. It's also easier to get out of it, where getting in and out of super tuck is the least stable part. A big issue with super tuck for me is you need to scoot forward more to get out from under the saddle (or risk getting back caught on saddle tip), with this you just push up a bit and slide back.
@@joroshiba fair point, i once had my jersey pocket get caught on my saddle cuz i didnt scoot up enough, entering a corner at 70kph (last left hander, hawk hill descent, next to the golden gate bridge) - I thought I was about to fall into the pacific ocean. barely made the corner.
i still think the traditional supertuck is more stable, tho.
@@neelsahay5227 Give it a try on something a bit safer and report back, this is from years of racing, it's more stable for me for sure.It might be uncomfortable for some, my body might just be weird but it's faster, more stable, and more comfortable for me personally.
According to their rules:
- you can't any more ride "en danseuse" !?
- you are only prohibited to use your forearms on the handlebar. Nothing says that you can't use your shoulders.
If I wanted to lure them, I would put an extra saddle on the top tube. Or use a dropper seatpost.
As the rules say: the only points of support are feet on pedals, hands on handlebar, seat on saddle.
- This is the maximum allowed. You may use less: danseuse, no hands (to get a bottle, put on a jacket,...) or even unclip if you wish.
- The rule says that they are the ONLY points of support. Meaning no shoulder, no chest, nothing else.
This is EXACTLY the same position as Carapaz.
Bum just on saddle, chest against bars, hands on the drops
but he barely touching the top tub while Carapaz was holding by his legs
So you only get DQ'd if the side of your legs touching the top tube?
But should still be DQ'd for chest on bars
@@Mike0 only if the video of you doing it is in worse quality.
The super tuck is dead, long live the super tuck.
I’ve been using the Supertuck since I first saw Steve Bauer use it in the 1984 Lis Angelos Olympics. . . except that until recently, I had my hands neat the handlebar stem.
Nice one...💥💥💥
I'd love to see Bahrain slap a dropper on Bilbao's bike even just to psych out the competition. You do not want to see him gapping you on the climb knowing he's gonna take 20s on the descent immediately. Either way, I give it six-nine months before we start seeing "road dropper" product releases.
Удачи ребята. ❤
He has an aero helmet. A big help.
Nice one… stable, legal and aero… 🎯
haha yes the emoji does resemble Bilbao's butthole after that descent!
oh my god, what speed!
Did that as a child, just to go a little faster, lower profile, center of mass forward etc
am i stupid or do you have new arrow graphics? looking good!
0:45 I like the "seat on the saddle" rule, like wtf does that even mean. I realize the UCI guys who write this english isnt their 1st language, but its funny how these rules are always so open to interpretation. It also states "hands on handlebars, not forearms". So yeah technically what hes doing is ok, even if his shoulders and chest are on the handlebars too
Except that if he does have contact of shoulders to handlebars it isn't ok. Reread rule 1.3.008.... to paraphrase the only points of contact allowed are hands feet and arse"....
Sloped top tube helps with this
Van Aert did this on the Tour last year
he turned into Van HURT
That guy’s seat disappeared into his inner tube
Всегда в форме👌
How about a dropper seat post that can also adjust the saddle set back :)
You kept me going!
Raise the minimum bike weight, which would make the teams use dropper posts instead of perilous riding positions.
Beautiful
carapaz was dq however his point of support was the same as riding out of saddle
What is that small blue strap connecting his bib shorts to the underside of his saddle??
So Bilbao is working on a compliant variant of the supertuck, but leaves the top of his race number loose to be a mini drag chute?
Great highlights. I wish you had the rights to the Giro, the other channels are nowhere near as good.
Gotta lube up before the race
I'd still rather have riders do the supertuck than this or the new hands in the middle of the handlebar style, which looks so much more dangerous than getting your CoG lower and keeping hands on the drops
Очень хорошо 💪💪
Tour de alps coverage?
I wonder if the more level foot position in Bilbao's newer tuck has any aero advantage over a classic super tuck when toes are pointing down?
I think this position modification in combination with a dropper post would be completely solid per the rules.
Bilbao is sponsored by KY jelly, so it makes sense to get in that position
UCI banned the supertuck to "make cycling safer" and guess what: Cycling is now probably more dangerous.
Should call it the pegging tuck 🤣
aerodynamics + safety=recumbent
UCI: Supertuck! Disqualified!
Bilbao: Show me the rule that says sticking the nose of my saddle 4inches up my own anus doesn’t count as a point of contact!
UCI: …Yeah, fair enough.
Bilboa: *waddles away triumphantly*
This is a win for those who are fans of public rectal stimulation.
Doesn't matter sometime soon , once company's start producing
The ' Road' dropper post every second rider will be using them to get that super tuck and no grey area's about points of contact 😁
Using a dropper seat post could be helpful
0:42 "seat on the saddle"
Easy, I don't ride a horse so I only have a seat
Banning the super tuck was such a stupid rule change by the uci
When is cycling going to adopt better technology/equipment for crashes are they waiting for people to die?
You would not want to hit a bump in that position otherwise you'd get torn a new one.
Nice
If your going to ban the super tuck then put all riders back on flat bars and remove the drops from all bikes
"Genius" is a strong word...
i don't know the rules but what about a seat with special fitted part for this position?
Круто , молодцы !
yes🎉
Shoulders certainly seem to be resting on handlebars - that's clearly against the three points of contact rule? A mess again...
No resting od shoulders
New UCI rule - rider shall not shove seat up arse unless in privacy of riders own home.
Dropper seatpost!
Course design is more dangerous yet they still have those wacky turns and unmarked obstacles in the road that take out half the field. Make it make sense 😖
by those rules climbing out of the saddle is illegal then?
That’s the tuck most of us have been doing for decades…ok not at that speed but it’s still an old tuck
If riders are bending the rules and putting themselves in equally dangerous situations as the ones the rule is supposed to prevent…then why have the rule in the first place 🤔?
Bicycle
bicycle
Bicycle
Bicycle
Bicycle
Bice
Seat penetration support.
Супер!
In the sport of tiny margins, it took a rider a year to implement this position? Why only now
Yeah I don't why they ain't aloud Should be alound do whatever you want to try even if you do end up in the bushes lol
Cool
Bilbao the best descender in the world right now? I dont watch the races deeply enough to know but is that really true? anyone give me a quick ranking of who they think the best descenders are currently
From the front view, it sure looks like his shoulders are contacting the bars.
Let them ride the bike how they like
My fear in this position is control of the bike.
I don't see a difference between carapaz and the pello tuck
At those speeds the rotors and extra spokes make these 'aero bikes' the slowest bikes for decades.
See, the difference is that Bilbao is holding on to the saddle by his bib short, Carapas was holding in the saddle 😂
That's how I descend...