An interesting prologue-to-prologue connection I noted on my last re-read of AGOT was Ser Waymar inviting the one Other to "dance with me then". Fast forward to the ACOK prologue, and Patches tells Cressen, "The shadows come to dance, my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord. The shadows come to stay, my lord, stay my lord, stay my lord". The Others are referred to as white or cold shadows; Waymar dares an Other (aka a shadow) to dance with him...might Patchface's riddle have been a warning about the Others rather than an affirmation of Melisandre's place in Stannis's life? I'm sure many have noticed this before but I only just caught it. Thought it was cool. Great job as always💚✋.
Love that GRRM can often give us just enough information and interaction between tertiary characters, to make them feel fleshed out when reading. Then familiar when recollecting their role in the story. Say what you will of Ser Waymar Royce, but he was no craven. He faced a wight in the first few pages of the entire fucking saga, and squared up to it, rather than run away. Then he trusted the years of training he would have put in as a highborn. The countless reps with his Castellan, brothers, Father etc.and represented the Night's watch bravely, ....busting out his best dance moves and hoping they were enough. Unfortunately,we know how that went for him. However, I love that the first human interaction between the Night's watch and the impending evil was to stand tall against it and fight with his life! Waymar may have been arrogant and entitled, but honestly you can chalk that up to youth and inexperience. Above all, he was brave and tenacious. He was chasing down evidence and wasn't going to rest or back down until he got answers. Then when the answer was seemingly evil incarnate, he put on his dancing shoes(bet they had runes) as a man of the NW should . He was a scrappy younger son of a noble house, too desperate to separate himself from the pack. If he had an uncle Benjen type to calm him down and chill him the F out a bit, he had traits that may have made him tailor made for the Night's watch. But now his watch is ended.
@@GeminibBorn Thanks. I know Patchface riddles can allude to any manner of things, but given that George continually highlights how the Others are the real threat it seems to me that he'd have a sibylline figure like Patches trying to warn people about them. And have the warnings fall on deaf and/or confused ears, of course.
I liked the point about Ser Waymar thinking they might be trying to mess with him. That's a very human insecurity. I also think it matters that he's a Royce, and probably has experience fighting with the clansmen in the Mountains of the Moon. He would have assumed this was just another expedition to "hunt down the savages", and nothing to be overly concerned about.
I never thought about Royce’s decision to press on to be for that reason. I think it’s because we mainly focus on Will for the perspective and we know he’s not lying so readers just assume Ser Waymar is a pompous idiot who is a horrible leader who refuses reasonable counsel. Great insight!
Sounds like the Others are rangers and the NW are on the wrong side of the wall...THEIR side,and the poor wildlings get caught in between, only the Others are so stealth that the Watch has only been concerned w/the wildlings. It also makes sense that if the COTF language is leaves rustling and a babbling brook,then a frozen version of that brook would be cracking ice on a brook or pond. Love this,always a great listen!!Thank you!
Love the chapter by chapter approach. I also would like to see you guys partner up with Rawrist or Quinn special guest a chapter that they are passionate about. Thanks guys for your hard work!
Have you ever noticed how the Royce’s are all over the place. Waymar went to the wall. One joined Renly’s Rainbow Guard, despite being a Valeman. Something is up with them.
Love Ser Waymar and Ser Robar the red! Brave pricks. One dancing w/an other. The other being cut down by Loras, so that Cat and Brienne could escape after frontrunner Renly's usurping getting squashed!
@@yourdashingheroidol7909 yeah, there’s a world without shadow babies, where Renly is King & the Lannister’s & their army are all wiped out, not the Starks. And Robb serves as Renly’s Hand. Jon Snow is decreed a Stark & Lord of Winterfell & then the Targaryians begin their invasion, when boom The Others penetrate the Wall & Winterfell & they are currently marching down the Kings Road ending the Royal conflict & beginning the Battle for the Dawn II.
@@goatmc A charming "What if"...........but I respectfully disagree! If the gods were JUST and fair, that gloryhound, frontrunner.....the handsome department store mannequin Renly, would have done the honorable thing and realized that he had absolutely no right to the throne....supporting his older brother's RIGHTFUL claim and combined forces. Ned's intent would have reached the North. Robb would have mobilized the power of the North, combining it with the Stormlands and the Reach, in order to easily put the most just and lawful King,Stannis on the throne. Renly would have realized that he had the ideal proving grounds to actually demonstrate his worth in court and on the battlefield. Maybe he could have actually racked up some deeds, to accompany his sense of entitlement. When faced w/the Others and long night....who would you rather have on the throne, controlling the military might of Westeros,.....Renly or the actual lawful claimant, Stannis? Who would make a better King, by deeds and not political spin, Renly(who is the archetype politician) or Stannis(unlikable,but follows the letter of law, duty to his last breath) I love Renly as a character,but he had absolutely no right/claim over Stannis. He was charming and far more popular than his elder brother, so he felt entitled to the throne. Once he rallied directly against Stannis, he became a usurper. Shadow babies are a bit sketchy,sure....but Renly forced Stannis' hand by taking up arms against him. He deserved what he got.
I might be wrong, but I think the Great Other or Overlord of the Others, is actually Three-Eyed-Crow. And the reason for why I think it is the case is because Bloodraven never contacted Bran via his dreams, but rather steered his path towards him, while the 3EC is being associated with Wargs and Greenseers. Now what I belive, is that the 3EC is actually the Bloodstone Emperor. Acording to Varamyr Sixskins, a Warg can not die but rather upload their concious into another living being and even into the Weirwood trees, and live on jumping from one being into another and waits for a parfect host to control its body and mind. So maybe Bran will be bodysnatched by the Bloodstone Emperor after he reveals himself as a powerful host and that is how goes on a murderous rampage inside Bloodravens cave and take the mantle of King of Others and invades Westeros.
I think Bran is going to steal Jon's body. For one reason or another, Jon's body will be taken to the old weirwood grove where he took his vows, and that's where Bran will see melisandre resurrecting Jon. Bran is going to warg into Jon and kick him out of his own mind just like Varamyr six skins tried to do in his prequel chapter. Bran is already a mind bully to Hodor, and he is currently feeling tricked and trapped. Remember, the only reason Bran went north to bloodravens cave was to be healed, but now he is stuck to a tree for eternity.
While I do hope we still get random podcast episodes talking about whatever you guys feel like at the time, I've been waiting for a chapter by chapter series for a long time
Yes!! Secrets of the Citadel had a great one going called Unraveling the Text but she quit about halfway through.. Was always hoping GreenHand would do one
Preston Jacobs AKA Sweerobin went through every television episode & compared it to the books. He also has a summary for all the Winds preview chapters called Prepping for Winter that’s excellent. Alt Shift/schwift X also has a chapter by chapter break down going that’s worth your time.
I would LOVE, but loath a Ser Balon Swann prologue. The only reason that I would loath one , is because prologue characters often meet the end of their line. This would suck for me personally, because Ser Balon Swann is one of my favorite characters overall and along w/Grenn, my favorite secondary characters . He embodies basically everything a true knight of Westeros is supposed to be. Jamie recognizes him as the ONLY current KG worthy of the white cloak! That is a HUGE endorsement, his personal and real feelings,not made for show etc. He is also the ONLY man who spoke in Tyrion's defense, during his trial. He also fought in the van of the defensive skirmishes to defend KL against Stannis (mannis) attack, even before he was named KG. When rereading the series, pay attention to Ser Balon Swann and you will appreciate him as the true steel.........which also plays right into the Cersei chapters, as she chooses the ONE TRUE knight at her disposal....to carry out a half cooked espionage/kidnap plan that is OBVIOUSLY much better suited to a Kettleblack type! Being a KG, Ser Balon is honorbound to follow Cersei'e command, no matter his thoughts. Ser Balon's current situation seems like a possible death sentence and would make an interesting and informative prologue. However,I think and am HOPING that this situation is actually playing back into Set Balon's hand. Instead of plotting etc., He is now a knight of the KG, seeking revenge and justice for his princess, who Darkstar Dayne supposedly sliced up! The fact that he is surrounded by enemies and seeking yet another , on THEIR HOME FIELD, is absolutely a bleek situation. Especially when one is a POV! Yet, I can't help but believe that Set Balon Swann isn't oblivious to the peril. He isn't Set Arys Oakheart. He will not go so easily to his end, even if it seems so unavoidable! I can see the mannish sandsbake doing something stupid and being cutdown by Set Balon for the misstep. After that.....Areo Hotah standing against the ONE TRUE KNIGHT of the KG, who in his mind is standing in defense of his princess.... surrounded by snakes ,with Darkstar possibly hitting the scene and doing Gods know what?! I personally think this drama in the sands of Dorne has the potential to be amazing! Is this wishful thinking on my part? What does everyone think? Would LOVE to gain others perspective! Thanks.
Waited a long time for a playlist like this, i have been watching Grey Area doing this chapter by chapter thing, you guys my favorite Asoiaf gurus and to me your conclusions and theories matter most about these books. Great one guys keep it up. PS: can't wait for you to go to Catelyn Stark chapters.
The duel between Waymar and the Other is foreshadowing. This fact is hinted to us with these lines… “A shadow emerged from the dark of the wood. It stood in front of Royce.” Subverting the literal meaning of the text; figuratively we have a shadow in the foreground, in front of Royce…a foreshadow. Clever, right? Martin has quite literally created the word foreshadow.
I live in middle of no where..with woods and snow.. If there is snow on the ground and the stars as moon is out, even just a half moon, it def makes things more visible than they would be. Hard to really explain how it looks unless you have seen it.
Starting at 27:00 I always thought he could see everything because there is snow on the ground. Look up snowy Forrest at night images. You can see everything. It snows a lot where I live and i normally can’t see across my field. Once winter comes and it snows I can see all the way across it even on cloudy nights. Throw in a half moon and it would be really bright.
There is a contradiction with the Others glowing, that does make things confusing. Glowing doesn't make you very stealthy. If they did, you'd think you'd spot them quite easily through the forest and before Will had this uneasy feeling. Also even if you can't see color in the dark your brain instantly translates it from past experiences. Plus George is heavy on symbolism and theme. It might be more important to him than being literally as accurate as possible.
We only do that with the prereleased chapters. I’m pretty sure it’s copyright infringement to do it with his published work and we’re very anti stealing from George
Another possibility other than the main “other” being a leader of some kind is that maybe this is a kind of initiation/coming of age ritual for young “others”, like Craster’s “sons”. They hunt humans kinda like the “predator” movie brutally but with a sense of honor and fairness, killing only armed humans etc. Also the reason for not killing the other two rangers might be, that the “others” only directly kill humans during their initiation ritual. The rest of the time they only use wights. So far we have only seen one “other” killing a human.
Wolf's den aka Teddy's channel featuring marryellen and Dave reading books. Jokes aside always hyped to see your content every week. It makes the day better.
A point about the wildlings looking like they froze, but the weather not being cold enough? When the Others are near, the temperature drops drastically, no?
Yes this is why I thought they'd died. The others effect the temperature, 'bring the winter with them', in the area they are in. If it's only in their local proximity it wouldnt affect the wall. They were a month away from the wall so the effects of the others aren't stretching that far yet.
The Others are looking for the Chosen One (who will be Jon). They know the Chosen One is black of hair, highborn, and undead. Undead people bleed thick black blood (Mel does when birthing the shadow.) Waymar initially fits the bill, and they show him respect. But when he gets cut, he bleeds *red*. He’s not undead. “This isn’t the One, just a regular noob,” says the lead Other. And leaves the other Others to finish him off, as he doesn’t rate the respect of single combat any more.
WOW! Interesting. I don't recall a "chosen one" deal w/the others, and I know most of ASOIAF verbatim at this point. Can you explain? NK, Was it mentioned w/the sentinels? Makes sense , especially given that Royce stood his ground in the face if them, can see them giving a mortal benefit of the doubt after that.
Another thing clicked in my mind. You guys are right about the wights laying around dead during the day, and that has terrible implications. Cotter pyke was sent to explore hardhome. He sent a letter back saying the wildlings are eating their dead, dead things are in the woods, and dead things are in the waters. That means Cotter pyke and the rest of his men are about to have one hell of a night at hardhomme!!!
Perhaps the reason that the Others waited until the sword was shattered was to see if the nightwatch still carried Dragon glass or Valerian steel. If Royce had been he could have killed them all with it. In only have the 'main' other approach they only risked one.
Bingo. The others are both after and afraid of the valyrian steel swords. The valyrian swords are all forged from one original magic soul drinking sword. The nissa nissa story is how the sword was forged, and the hammer breaking the arm of dorne is a retelling of the sword being shattered and scattered. Edit:Rhaegars breastplate ruby exploding into a thousand shards and scattering into the trident is a beautiful visual of the breaking of Lightbringer.
I think the reader is meant to be fooled by seeing the prologue from Wills perspective. We first get a grim tale - an arrogant lord who plays at being a hero but gets himself killed for it. But we only view it that way because of Wills perspective. Waymar's insistence on seeing the wildlings even after a seasoned veteran claims they are dead and his almost lack of suprise when confronted by the Others makes me think there's more to him than meets the eye. The Royces also have a strong First Man heritage, despite being southerners. I believe Martin was trying to fool the reader into thinking we understood the prologue, but added more information later in the books to make us doubt what we thought we knew. We were being primed to see Waymar as a foolish and arrogant child out of his depth, so we wouldn't notice that things about his tale don't add up.
The line about not trusting anything a wet nurse says is severely underrated. The series has several scenarios where a wet nurse could have lied/held a secret that can have major implications for the story. Wetnurses and Bards seem to be the tools of choice for schemers and dreamers alike.
Loved this discussion and looking forward to more! I haven't heard the already wights theory for that group but it would make sense. I always thought the fact that the fancy iron axe was left behind was to back up what Old Nan tells us later on about how the Others hate iron. And I find it interesting that when Will is climbing the tree, we're told that he's 1) praying to the old gods and 2) that he puts his knife between his teeth ("The taste of cold iron in his mouth gave him comfort.") I can't help but think there's a lot more to this description than just setting the scene given how many times iron bladed weapons etc come into play, especially concerning dead things and keeping them at rest. There's a lot to unpack with iron in general, especially when it comes to the Others, the crypts, etc. I hope someday we get more answers! We'll definitely be analyzing this prologue FOREVER as it is loaded with stuff. I swear I see something new every single time! Old Nan's tale always starts the same (Jon recalls it almost verbatim from how she tells it to Bran): "They were cold things, dead things, that hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun" - I wonder if she SAYS the Others and MEANS the Wights instead? It would make more sense for the minions to be sweeping over everything rather than the Others themselves. As you pointed out they seem to only get personally involved under certain circumstances and must have wanted something specific from Waymar (the sword, a certain look, blood, something). And I don't think we have ever seen them together, no. The fact that the other Others (watchers) are described as twins to the first etc backs up the idea that they could be Craster's sons though. (Although if that's the case they're a younger bunch). They probably do look very similar given all the in-breeding going on and the location fits. It's said that he has 19 wives and "they all looked sort of alike" so it stands to reason their brothers/sons do too. He makes a big deal about how he gives his son/his blood to the old gods and the Night's Watch put up with him and his evil ways because of it. SO MANY QUESTIONS. Keep up the great work and I look forward to hearing more! Love chapter breakdowns. Everyone notices different things so it always makes for great discussions.
Yay! I love that you guys are doing this. I hope it encourages people to read this series, despite the dumpster fire the show turned out to be in the end.
Dumpster fire is a very nice analogy, put very mildly. 😊 I just wish the writing had been better - everything else was a 10/10! At least small creators are still giving us some insight into the story in a way where viewers can tell they are passionate about ASOIF and it’s inhabitants. I think disappointed fans rushing to TH-cam for the real story (and therefore supporting smaller creators in that process) is better than D&D reluctantly throwing together more seasons that would have been even worse. Thank goodness for channels like these! 👍
As the King of Westeros, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, Protector of the Realm and King of the Andals, Rhoynar, and First Men, I bestow upon this new format the royal seal of approval.
Perhaps “seeking” first men blood is their way of trying to stop Azor Ahi from being reborn. That could be why the Others appeared hesitant when Waymor Royce first drew his sword.
I have been a subscriber for a while now, just make the step to a patreon member because I liked this video so much and can’t wait for more! Thanks for the awesome content!
Is it possible to find the podcast somewhere other than TH-cam? This would be an incredible series to take with me to my corporate slave job. 🤣 Been binging your content for the last few days. Gotta say I think most of the analysis and reflection presented in your videos is logical, and well cited through resources. This channel has made me completely rethink what I know about GRRM as a writer and the ASOIF series as a whole. Glad to see you guys posting regularly- this made my whole day! Keep it up 👍
Super interesting observation that the wights don't appear at the same time as the Others! Could it be that it's the Children of the Forest, and not the Others, that are responsible for the wights?
I believe the watchers, “twins to the first”, are the same as the woman in the ironwood tree and are CotF with their delicate armor having shifting patterns that made them invisible in the wood.
his analysis on the blood reminded me of one of the stories of the old nan, perhaps it is a clue. from arya 3 in clash of kings ...She remembered a story Old Nan had told once, about a man imprisoned in a dark castle by evil giants. He was very brave and smart and he tricked the giants and escaped … but no sooner was he outside the castle than the Others took him, and drank his hot red blood....
Fascinating insights. It also makes me think about Small Paul, who was still walking back to the Wall from muscle memory after he was turned into a Wight. Also, the COTF language seems to indicate that there are some at Winterfell.
George is great at mystery with how even now the white walkers are still not known what they truly are or thier creation and purpose in the story. My theory is George just showing what nature is and why it's not supposed to be kind like nature creatures in media being kind while the real world shows the cold and nature will always win over no matter how much we destory it will survive. The wall keeping ice and fire seperate aka the whites on one side and the dragons on the other seems much more important than most people explain as something is up with the wall with all the magic it has like its own Character and rules. Winds needs to come out as it's the height of winter incoming while fire and blood is showing fire with dragon history
26:30 the needles raining down seems to support my idea that Lightbringer was thrown into the 14 flames, mount mordor style, and the resulting explosion caused The Doom
I am new here I do not know if you will see this But when ever I read this chapter I always wonder if Royce knew about the others I say this because of the way he acted And I always wondered about the Royce house I see them all over the place
30:04 this whole scene parallels Jon practice fighting Mance later in the story. Mance even gets on top of Jon, grabs his head, and says if he had a dagger, Jon would have one less eye right now. If that's not proof, Mance is the Other in the prologue!
i’m surprised you guys didn’t mention how the Others move and make no sound. they “slide on silent feet”. on my most recent reading, i was immediately thinking of how a person living in a medieval-like era would perceive superior technology/magical ability that they’ve never seen. the others were closing in on them on silent feet… hence why they didn’t hear them or see them until they were close. they clearly have some other worldly armor and weapons.. so i was thinking maybe they really were floating somehow. even the quietest hobbit feet would be making steps, not sliding forward.. anyway maybe i’m grasping at straws here. but i’m so happy you guys are doing this breakdown!! ❤️❤️ ps the sheeps blood, and the bloodless wights are totally related. either the children or the Others are using the blood (iron) to enhance their magical ability, like vampires. all the iron references are signals about their humanity, in my opinion. they may even be looking for a certain kind of blood, like a version of Rh- in this realm, which maybe only first men have because they were exposed to some kind of magic or radiation or something in the past that was passed down. thanks again!!
it may be a whole lot more simple. Ned grew up at the Vale. He would have known Royce was at the Wall because its his jurisdiction plus Benjin is there. This is a close circle of allies The North and The Vale. So they take Ned's ally and they leave someone for him to have to execute knowing the nights watchman is a witness to Royce's death and is not lying. In effect the White Walkers made Ned lie one more time. There is something to do with crime and magic and sin North of the Wall in my opinion. Ned tells Bran and his family he is doing justice by killing the deserter when possibly Ned is lying to them and covering up the origins of the relationship between his own house and the White Walkers and that the nights watch must provide bodies/babies/and blood to a magic bond that goes back and is sinister and is something he cannot fight against and must submit to at all times. Its a reminder to Ned from the White Walkers of his position possibly. like a drone strike on the idea that the Nights Watch is superior to the forces that it claims to keep at bay.....
Being the coldest point (the Others) and having no wind does make some sense. It has been a while so I could be wrong on this. High pressure wants to expand to a low pressure area just like warm air does. High pressure means air molecules bounce against each more often than low pressure. Heat is just vibrating atoms and molecules. Having high pressure converts kinetic energy to thermo energy. Think of cooking and a hydraulic press. With high pressure cooking you can cook over 100 Celsius and after using a hydraulic press on an item like a block of iron can feel hotter than before, just from intense pressure. High temperature can increase pressure and high pressure can generate heat. Also you sound like describing the eye of a hurricane.
I think the gift of sheep and the accepting of them to be symbolic. Crastor is giving up potential food and warmth giving the sheep. The Others acceptance shows they acknowledge Crastor’s sacrifice, as something has to be given to the Others or they will visit the hut. Crastor made a deal to exchange sons for his life. That’s my head canon anyway.
He was a boy, but thought himself a man...it's like a sacrifice I feel like. The Royce is an ancient family, Waymar is knighted, he seems to be looking for "something" and he knows what it is, from the wet nurse stories, but I feel like he's knowingly walking to his sacrifice...
A thought on the whole maybe they were wights who were killed elsewhere and then went back to their camp to lay dormant for the day….. That still doesn’t explain why the axe would be there. They wouldn’t have left it there for their original expedition. I’m not sure why the others chose to freeze these guys and slay Waymar but that seems most likely to me.
On wights and Others not coming together: I guess you can't do much yourself while you're telepathically controlling someone/something else. Though it would still make sense for the Others to have like half of them control wights from somewhere safe and half going to the battlefield with those crystal swords. Unless it absolutely has to be all the Others simultaneously controlling all the wights.
George is very picky about the art, and has given specific instructions about things to artists. I have to imagine he'd have said something, if he didnt like the moonlight glow. I do think you had that correct, it is moonlight.
The others are also described as having nature like voices- the cracking and groaning of ice. ETA- Imo they are giants. Possibly the giants the built the wall. (Giants dont have to be one race and probably arent, and they can range in height as well. So small giants maybe but giants) A nature based race just like the cotf. The only difference is that one is of spring, and the other is winter. But one thing is for sure they arent monsters. They have armor, weapons, magic, language- the death of waymar involved jokes and jeering- like a group of deranged teens killing a cat, not like a pack of animals. And that has... Implications.
Also want to add on the concept of how many others are there? Yes there are crasters kids... But we know nothing about how long lived they are, and if you look at rhe stuff around the story of the night king and the right of the first night... Chances are the others have had a steady diet of northern bastards since the wall went up in the first place. I know you and preston jacobs dont always agree but he covers this exact concept and it would at least give yall some ideas. But considering that the others are likely a small, genetically isolated humanoid species chances are they either want to colonize land or claim genetic material so they dont inbreed to death. And they want first men geners specifically- probably because they function with a semi hive mind and telepathic genes that would aid in that are common in first men.
I also feel like he's trying to throw us with the "milk" description...Dawn is described as "milk," too, but Dawn and he who wields it -- The Sword of the Morning -- is "good," right???
The only thing that bugs me for over a decade by now is that these wights cant move at all. Our bodies will freeze stiff under such conditions and to animate them, they will tear itself apart. But it is a good story.
Holy guacamole! These breakdowns provide so much insight I didn't get from reading alone! The prologue is extremely suspicious in hindsight. The whole thing has to be a set-up. Mormon must be in cahoots with whoever is controlling or coordinating "the others" (probably mance). Weymer is the perfect mark to test out some necromancy magic you are planning on using on a larger scale! How deep does this conspiracy go and who all is in on it!???
I don't know if I'm reaching, but could there be some significance to the no blood thing? If I understand correctly, there's some magic in blood sacrifice to the werewoods. Maybe if the white walkers were originally created by the children, theyre now opposed to feeding the old gods?
What if the Others are independent of the wights. What if the wights are controlled by the Children/Bloodraven? The Children were answering questions there in the woods at that time. Maybe the Others were hunting the wights 🤷🏼♂️
I wonder if ancient first men houses (descending from Garth) have some kind of protection in their blood where they can’t be raised unless they are specifically killed by Others. It’s obviously not all first men since the wilding are def first men, but that magical blood. It might explain why the Starks are comfortable with having crypts and there are barrow lands in the North. If there wasn’t some sort of protection I feel like everyone in the North would be on pyres. On an amusing note…I think I understand why the show went with “white walkers” since then you can say the others with out confusing it with “the Others”
Why did the Others target Waymar Royce? It can’t be a coincidence he’s descended from an ancient royal blood line that A) Is in possession of First Men armor B) Has deep connections to House Stark C) Declares "We Remember"
Absolutely think you're correct - he thought the experienced rangers were both lazy (because he is a classist bigot) and also playing a prank in him, to haze him in front of the rest of the brothers.
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An interesting prologue-to-prologue connection I noted on my last re-read of AGOT was Ser Waymar inviting the one Other to "dance with me then". Fast forward to the ACOK prologue, and Patches tells Cressen, "The shadows come to dance, my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord. The shadows come to stay, my lord, stay my lord, stay my lord". The Others are referred to as white or cold shadows; Waymar dares an Other (aka a shadow) to dance with him...might Patchface's riddle have been a warning about the Others rather than an affirmation of Melisandre's place in Stannis's life? I'm sure many have noticed this before but I only just caught it. Thought it was cool. Great job as always💚✋.
George is sneaky with his wordplay lol
@@BenJover Indeed. The Patchface riddles are so much fun to decipher; I'm always looking for what they might mean. I caught that and thought, aha!
Love that GRRM can often give us just enough information and interaction between tertiary characters, to make them feel fleshed out when reading. Then familiar when recollecting their role in the story. Say what you will of Ser Waymar Royce, but he was no craven. He faced a wight in the first few pages of the entire fucking saga, and squared up to it, rather than run away. Then he trusted the years of training he would have put in as a highborn. The countless reps with his Castellan, brothers, Father etc.and represented the Night's watch bravely, ....busting out his best dance moves and hoping they were enough. Unfortunately,we know how that went for him. However, I love that the first human interaction between the Night's watch and the impending evil was to stand tall against it and fight with his life! Waymar may have been arrogant and entitled, but honestly you can chalk that up to youth and inexperience. Above all, he was brave and tenacious. He was chasing down evidence and wasn't going to rest or back down until he got answers. Then when the answer was seemingly evil incarnate, he put on his dancing shoes(bet they had runes) as a man of the NW should .
He was a scrappy younger son of a noble house, too desperate to separate himself from the pack. If he had an uncle Benjen type to calm him down and chill him the F out a bit, he had traits that may have made him tailor made for the Night's watch. But now his watch is ended.
Nice Catch!
@@GeminibBorn Thanks. I know Patchface riddles can allude to any manner of things, but given that George continually highlights how the Others are the real threat it seems to me that he'd have a sibylline figure like Patches trying to warn people about them. And have the warnings fall on deaf and/or confused ears, of course.
I liked the point about Ser Waymar thinking they might be trying to mess with him. That's a very human insecurity.
I also think it matters that he's a Royce, and probably has experience fighting with the clansmen in the Mountains of the Moon. He would have assumed this was just another expedition to "hunt down the savages", and nothing to be overly concerned about.
I never thought about Royce’s decision to press on to be for that reason. I think it’s because we mainly focus on Will for the perspective and we know he’s not lying so readers just assume Ser Waymar is a pompous idiot who is a horrible leader who refuses reasonable counsel. Great insight!
Weymers' hunch was right, but it was the leadership messing with him!
Sounds like the Others are rangers and the NW are on the wrong side of the wall...THEIR side,and the poor wildlings get caught in between, only the Others are so stealth that the Watch has only been concerned w/the wildlings. It also makes sense that if the COTF language is leaves rustling and a babbling brook,then a frozen version of that brook would be cracking ice on a brook or pond. Love this,always a great listen!!Thank you!
Love the chapter by chapter approach. I also would like to see you guys partner up with Rawrist or Quinn special guest a chapter that they are passionate about. Thanks guys for your hard work!
$100 says you guys will break down an entire book chapter by chapter before George finishes Winds.
Have you ever noticed how the Royce’s are all over the place. Waymar went to the wall. One joined Renly’s Rainbow Guard, despite being a Valeman. Something is up with them.
We also think they’re important
Isn't that explained by there being so many of them? Only 1 can be Lord Royce and the cadet branch holds the gate to Vale, no?
Love Ser Waymar and Ser Robar the red! Brave pricks. One dancing w/an other. The other being cut down by Loras, so that Cat and Brienne could escape after frontrunner Renly's usurping getting squashed!
@@yourdashingheroidol7909 yeah, there’s a world without shadow babies, where Renly is King & the Lannister’s & their army are all wiped out, not the Starks. And Robb serves as Renly’s Hand. Jon Snow is decreed a Stark & Lord of Winterfell & then the Targaryians begin their invasion, when boom The Others penetrate the Wall & Winterfell & they are currently marching down the Kings Road ending the Royal conflict & beginning the Battle for the Dawn II.
@@goatmc
A charming "What if"...........but I respectfully disagree! If the gods were JUST and fair, that gloryhound, frontrunner.....the handsome department store mannequin Renly, would have done the honorable thing and realized that he had absolutely no right to the throne....supporting his older brother's RIGHTFUL claim and combined forces. Ned's intent would have reached the North. Robb would have mobilized the power of the North, combining it with the Stormlands and the Reach, in order to easily put the most just and lawful King,Stannis on the throne. Renly would have realized that he had the ideal proving grounds to actually demonstrate his worth in court and on the battlefield. Maybe he could have actually racked up some deeds, to accompany his sense of entitlement.
When faced w/the Others and long night....who would you rather have on the throne, controlling the military might of Westeros,.....Renly or the actual lawful claimant, Stannis? Who would make a better King, by deeds and not political spin, Renly(who is the archetype politician) or Stannis(unlikable,but follows the letter of law, duty to his last breath)
I love Renly as a character,but he had absolutely no right/claim over Stannis. He was charming and far more popular than his elder brother, so he felt entitled to the throne. Once he rallied directly against Stannis, he became a usurper. Shadow babies are a bit sketchy,sure....but Renly forced Stannis' hand by taking up arms against him. He deserved what he got.
It may not be "they control the weather" it could be more of a case that because they are so cold they are "the eye of the storm"
I might be wrong, but I think the Great Other or Overlord of the Others, is actually Three-Eyed-Crow. And the reason for why I think it is the case is because Bloodraven never contacted Bran via his dreams, but rather steered his path towards him, while the 3EC is being associated with Wargs and Greenseers. Now what I belive, is that the 3EC is actually the Bloodstone Emperor. Acording to Varamyr Sixskins, a Warg can not die but rather upload their concious into another living being and even into the Weirwood trees, and live on jumping from one being into another and waits for a parfect host to control its body and mind. So maybe Bran will be bodysnatched by the Bloodstone Emperor after he reveals himself as a powerful host and that is how goes on a murderous rampage inside Bloodravens cave and take the mantle of King of Others and invades Westeros.
I think Bran is going to steal Jon's body. For one reason or another, Jon's body will be taken to the old weirwood grove where he took his vows, and that's where Bran will see melisandre resurrecting Jon. Bran is going to warg into Jon and kick him out of his own mind just like Varamyr six skins tried to do in his prequel chapter. Bran is already a mind bully to Hodor, and he is currently feeling tricked and trapped. Remember, the only reason Bran went north to bloodravens cave was to be healed, but now he is stuck to a tree for eternity.
While I do hope we still get random podcast episodes talking about whatever you guys feel like at the time, I've been waiting for a chapter by chapter series for a long time
Yes!! Secrets of the Citadel had a great one going called Unraveling the Text but she quit about halfway through.. Was always hoping GreenHand would do one
Preston Jacobs AKA Sweerobin went through every television episode & compared it to the books. He also has a summary for all the Winds preview chapters called Prepping for Winter that’s excellent. Alt Shift/schwift X also has a chapter by chapter break down going that’s worth your time.
I would LOVE, but loath a Ser Balon Swann prologue. The only reason that I would loath one , is because prologue characters often meet the end of their line. This would suck for me personally, because Ser Balon Swann is one of my favorite characters overall and along w/Grenn, my favorite secondary characters . He embodies basically everything a true knight of Westeros is supposed to be. Jamie recognizes him as the ONLY current KG worthy of the white cloak! That is a HUGE endorsement, his personal and real feelings,not made for show etc. He is also the ONLY man who spoke in Tyrion's defense, during his trial. He also fought in the van of the defensive skirmishes to defend KL against Stannis (mannis) attack, even before he was named KG. When rereading the series, pay attention to Ser Balon Swann and you will appreciate him as the true steel.........which also plays right into the Cersei chapters, as she chooses the ONE TRUE knight at her disposal....to carry out a half cooked espionage/kidnap plan that is OBVIOUSLY much better suited to a Kettleblack type!
Being a KG, Ser Balon is honorbound to follow Cersei'e command, no matter his thoughts. Ser Balon's current situation seems like a possible death sentence and would make an interesting and informative prologue. However,I think and am HOPING that this situation is actually playing back into Set Balon's hand. Instead of plotting etc., He is now a knight of the KG, seeking revenge and justice for his princess, who Darkstar Dayne supposedly sliced up! The fact that he is surrounded by enemies and seeking yet another , on THEIR HOME FIELD, is absolutely a bleek situation. Especially when one is a POV! Yet, I can't help but believe that Set Balon Swann isn't oblivious to the peril. He isn't Set Arys Oakheart. He will not go so easily to his end, even if it seems so unavoidable! I can see the mannish sandsbake doing something stupid and being cutdown by Set Balon for the misstep. After that.....Areo Hotah standing against the ONE TRUE KNIGHT of the KG, who in his mind is standing in defense of his princess.... surrounded by snakes ,with Darkstar possibly hitting the scene and doing Gods know what?! I personally think this drama in the sands of Dorne has the potential to be amazing! Is this wishful thinking on my part? What does everyone think? Would LOVE to gain others perspective! Thanks.
Waymar knows stuff, he wants to know if the dead were in a pattern, and the other rangers protestations showed him he was on the track he intended.
Waited a long time for a playlist like this, i have been watching Grey Area doing this chapter by chapter thing, you guys my favorite Asoiaf gurus and to me your conclusions and theories matter most about these books. Great one guys keep it up.
PS: can't wait for you to go to Catelyn Stark chapters.
I never considered it could be the Children watching them all day. Nice
The duel between Waymar and the Other is foreshadowing. This fact is hinted to us with these lines…
“A shadow emerged from the dark of the wood. It stood in front of Royce.”
Subverting the literal meaning of the text; figuratively we have a shadow in the foreground, in front of Royce…a foreshadow. Clever, right? Martin has quite literally created the word foreshadow.
I live in middle of no where..with woods and snow.. If there is snow on the ground and the stars as moon is out, even just a half moon, it def makes things more visible than they would be. Hard to really explain how it looks unless you have seen it.
We used to go hunting a lot at night after it snowed and it’s true.
I always thought the others killed them by making the temp intensely cold
Starting at 27:00 I always thought he could see everything because there is snow on the ground. Look up snowy Forrest at night images. You can see everything. It snows a lot where I live and i normally can’t see across my field. Once winter comes and it snows I can see all the way across it even on cloudy nights. Throw in a half moon and it would be really bright.
There is a contradiction with the Others glowing, that does make things confusing. Glowing doesn't make you very stealthy. If they did, you'd think you'd spot them quite easily through the forest and before Will had this uneasy feeling.
Also even if you can't see color in the dark your brain instantly translates it from past experiences. Plus George is heavy on symbolism and theme. It might be more important to him than being literally as accurate as possible.
Id love to hear you guys do a reading of each chapter to go along with this series. You both have great voices for it!
We only do that with the prereleased chapters. I’m pretty sure it’s copyright infringement to do it with his published work and we’re very anti stealing from George
Ah back to where it all began 😊
If they were tracking wights, surely they would notice that the things they were tracking don’t light fires, eat food, or poop.
Another possibility other than the main “other” being a leader of some kind is that maybe this is a kind of initiation/coming of age ritual for young “others”, like Craster’s “sons”. They hunt humans kinda like the “predator” movie brutally but with a sense of honor and fairness, killing only armed humans etc.
Also the reason for not killing the other two rangers might be, that the “others” only directly kill humans during their initiation ritual. The rest of the time they only use wights. So far we have only seen one “other” killing a human.
Wolf's den aka Teddy's channel featuring marryellen and Dave reading books. Jokes aside always hyped to see your content every week. It makes the day better.
Might as well start the speculation from the beginning as there's still no winds of winter in sight.
I don't think we'll ever get winds. And if we do spring will never be more than a dream.
A point about the wildlings looking like they froze, but the weather not being cold enough? When the Others are near, the temperature drops drastically, no?
Yes this is why I thought they'd died. The others effect the temperature, 'bring the winter with them', in the area they are in. If it's only in their local proximity it wouldnt affect the wall. They were a month away from the wall so the effects of the others aren't stretching that far yet.
The Others are looking for the Chosen One (who will be Jon). They know the Chosen One is black of hair, highborn, and undead. Undead people bleed thick black blood (Mel does when birthing the shadow.) Waymar initially fits the bill, and they show him respect. But when he gets cut, he bleeds *red*. He’s not undead. “This isn’t the One, just a regular noob,” says the lead Other. And leaves the other Others to finish him off, as he doesn’t rate the respect of single combat any more.
WOW! Interesting. I don't recall a "chosen one" deal w/the others, and I know most of ASOIAF verbatim at this point. Can you explain? NK, Was it mentioned w/the sentinels?
Makes sense , especially given that Royce stood his ground in the face if them, can see them giving a mortal benefit of the doubt after that.
Another thing clicked in my mind. You guys are right about the wights laying around dead during the day, and that has terrible implications. Cotter pyke was sent to explore hardhome. He sent a letter back saying the wildlings are eating their dead, dead things are in the woods, and dead things are in the waters. That means Cotter pyke and the rest of his men are about to have one hell of a night at hardhomme!!!
22:30 The others yelled "This is Magnar Country!" and Waymar nearly dropped his sub sandwich.
Perhaps the reason that the Others waited until the sword was shattered was to see if the nightwatch still carried Dragon glass or Valerian steel. If Royce had been he could have killed them all with it. In only have the 'main' other approach they only risked one.
Bingo. The others are both after and afraid of the valyrian steel swords. The valyrian swords are all forged from one original magic soul drinking sword. The nissa nissa story is how the sword was forged, and the hammer breaking the arm of dorne is a retelling of the sword being shattered and scattered.
Edit:Rhaegars breastplate ruby exploding into a thousand shards and scattering into the trident is a beautiful visual of the breaking of Lightbringer.
This is gonna be awesome. Gonna pick up and start reading along too
I think the reader is meant to be fooled by seeing the prologue from Wills perspective. We first get a grim tale - an arrogant lord who plays at being a hero but gets himself killed for it. But we only view it that way because of Wills perspective.
Waymar's insistence on seeing the wildlings even after a seasoned veteran claims they are dead and his almost lack of suprise when confronted by the Others makes me think there's more to him than meets the eye. The Royces also have a strong First Man heritage, despite being southerners.
I believe Martin was trying to fool the reader into thinking we understood the prologue, but added more information later in the books to make us doubt what we thought we knew. We were being primed to see Waymar as a foolish and arrogant child out of his depth, so we wouldn't notice that things about his tale don't add up.
The line about not trusting anything a wet nurse says is severely underrated. The series has several scenarios where a wet nurse could have lied/held a secret that can have major implications for the story. Wetnurses and Bards seem to be the tools of choice for schemers and dreamers alike.
You two never cease to impress me.
Loved this discussion and looking forward to more! I haven't heard the already wights theory for that group but it would make sense.
I always thought the fact that the fancy iron axe was left behind was to back up what Old Nan tells us later on about how the Others hate iron. And I find it interesting that when Will is climbing the tree, we're told that he's 1) praying to the old gods and 2) that he puts his knife between his teeth ("The taste of cold iron in his mouth gave him comfort.") I can't help but think there's a lot more to this description than just setting the scene given how many times iron bladed weapons etc come into play, especially concerning dead things and keeping them at rest.
There's a lot to unpack with iron in general, especially when it comes to the Others, the crypts, etc. I hope someday we get more answers! We'll definitely be analyzing this prologue FOREVER as it is loaded with stuff. I swear I see something new every single time!
Old Nan's tale always starts the same (Jon recalls it almost verbatim from how she tells it to Bran): "They were cold things, dead things, that hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun" - I wonder if she SAYS the Others and MEANS the Wights instead? It would make more sense for the minions to be sweeping over everything rather than the Others themselves. As you pointed out they seem to only get personally involved under certain circumstances and must have wanted something specific from Waymar (the sword, a certain look, blood, something). And I don't think we have ever seen them together, no.
The fact that the other Others (watchers) are described as twins to the first etc backs up the idea that they could be Craster's sons though. (Although if that's the case they're a younger bunch). They probably do look very similar given all the in-breeding going on and the location fits. It's said that he has 19 wives and "they all looked sort of alike" so it stands to reason their brothers/sons do too. He makes a big deal about how he gives his son/his blood to the old gods and the Night's Watch put up with him and his evil ways because of it. SO MANY QUESTIONS.
Keep up the great work and I look forward to hearing more! Love chapter breakdowns. Everyone notices different things so it always makes for great discussions.
Yay! I love that you guys are doing this. I hope it encourages people to read this series, despite the dumpster fire the show turned out to be in the end.
Dumpster fire is a very nice analogy, put very mildly. 😊 I just wish the writing had been better - everything else was a 10/10! At least small creators are still giving us some insight into the story in a way where viewers can tell they are passionate about ASOIF and it’s inhabitants. I think disappointed fans rushing to TH-cam for the real story (and therefore supporting smaller creators in that process) is better than D&D reluctantly throwing together more seasons that would have been even worse. Thank goodness for channels like these! 👍
I completely agree. 😊
Good idea. Chapter by chapter.
I was literally searching for something like this, and after a few days i found your channel snd the series. What a blessing 🎉
awwww thank you
As the King of Westeros, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, Protector of the Realm and King of the Andals, Rhoynar, and First Men, I bestow upon this new format the royal seal of approval.
Perhaps “seeking” first men blood is their way of trying to stop Azor Ahi from being reborn. That could be why the Others appeared hesitant when Waymor Royce first drew his sword.
Every other TH-camr thinks this is true but dude died cause he was loud and inexperienced.
I have been a subscriber for a while now, just make the step to a patreon member because I liked this video so much and can’t wait for more! Thanks for the awesome content!
Is it possible to find the podcast somewhere other than TH-cam? This would be an incredible series to take with me to my corporate slave job. 🤣 Been binging your content for the last few days. Gotta say I think most of the analysis and reflection presented in your videos is logical, and well cited through resources. This channel has made me completely rethink what I know about GRRM as a writer and the ASOIF series as a whole. Glad to see you guys posting regularly- this made my whole day! Keep it up 👍
Corpo wage slave here, i also second this. Petition to export audio submitted. What is mah lords decree?
Super interesting observation that the wights don't appear at the same time as the Others! Could it be that it's the Children of the Forest, and not the Others, that are responsible for the wights?
The Children are the Villains.
Been saying it since like, Book Two.
children of the forest could be mind controlling both wights and others…
I believe the watchers, “twins to the first”, are the same as the woman in the ironwood tree and are CotF with their delicate armor having shifting patterns that made them invisible in the wood.
Excited for this reread, i am sure it will lead to interesting discussions and theories :)
his analysis on the blood reminded me of one of the stories of the old nan, perhaps it is a clue. from arya 3 in clash of kings
...She remembered a story Old Nan had told once, about a man imprisoned in a dark castle by evil giants. He was very brave and smart and he tricked the giants and escaped … but no sooner was he outside the castle than the Others took him, and drank his hot red blood....
Woah that's weird I don't remember that story lol
@@BenJover perhaps it is a clue of what the others do with Craster's children, drink his blood?
Fascinating insights. It also makes me think about Small Paul, who was still walking back to the Wall from muscle memory after he was turned into a Wight.
Also, the COTF language seems to indicate that there are some at Winterfell.
Sam was carrying the soundless horn, it could be a thing too
In Sam's chapter walking away from The Fist he remembers the Others then quickly tells himself not to remember. So the others were there too.
Love your videos...they put me to sleep on nights I don't have my audiobooks.
George is great at mystery with how even now the white walkers are still not known what they truly are or thier creation and purpose in the story.
My theory is George just showing what nature is and why it's not supposed to be kind like nature creatures in media being kind while the real world shows the cold and nature will always win over no matter how much we destory it will survive.
The wall keeping ice and fire seperate aka the whites on one side and the dragons on the other seems much more important than most people explain as something is up with the wall with all the magic it has like its own Character and rules.
Winds needs to come out as it's the height of winter incoming while fire and blood is showing fire with dragon history
26:30 the needles raining down seems to support my idea that Lightbringer was thrown into the 14 flames, mount mordor style, and the resulting explosion caused The Doom
Yessss totally looking forward to chapter by chapter breakdown ❤
Thank God, a channel I follow that ain't talking about Spider-Man!
I am new here
I do not know if you will see this
But when ever I read this chapter I always wonder if Royce knew about the others I say this because of the way he acted
And I always wondered about the Royce house I see them all over the place
Oh this is an excellent idea!
38:54 “We know others make wights” - do we?
Since the white walkers are essentially the embodiment of winter, isn't it possible that they just froze the wildlings to death?
I'm so down for the new format!
I loving ❤ these uploads from my favorite ASOIAF channel.
30:04 this whole scene parallels Jon practice fighting Mance later in the story. Mance even gets on top of Jon, grabs his head, and says if he had a dagger, Jon would have one less eye right now. If that's not proof, Mance is the Other in the prologue!
i’m surprised you guys didn’t mention how the Others move and make no sound. they “slide on silent feet”. on my most recent reading, i was immediately thinking of how a person living in a medieval-like era would perceive superior technology/magical ability that they’ve never seen. the others were closing in on them on silent feet… hence why they didn’t hear them or see them until they were close. they clearly have some other worldly armor and weapons.. so i was thinking maybe they really were floating somehow. even the quietest hobbit feet would be making steps, not sliding forward.. anyway maybe i’m grasping at straws here. but i’m so happy you guys are doing this breakdown!! ❤️❤️ ps the sheeps blood, and the bloodless wights are totally related. either the children or the Others are using the blood (iron) to enhance their magical ability, like vampires. all the iron references are signals about their humanity, in my opinion. they may even be looking for a certain kind of blood, like a version of Rh- in this realm, which maybe only first men have because they were exposed to some kind of magic or radiation or something in the past that was passed down. thanks again!!
When Rudolf dies Santa can commission some wights to guide his sleigh
it may be a whole lot more simple. Ned grew up at the Vale. He would have known Royce was at the Wall because its his jurisdiction plus Benjin is there. This is a close circle of allies The North and The Vale. So they take Ned's ally and they leave someone for him to have to execute knowing the nights watchman is a witness to Royce's death and is not lying. In effect the White Walkers made Ned lie one more time. There is something to do with crime and magic and sin North of the Wall in my opinion. Ned tells Bran and his family he is doing justice by killing the deserter when possibly Ned is lying to them and covering up the origins of the relationship between his own house and the White Walkers and that the nights watch must provide bodies/babies/and blood to a magic bond that goes back and is sinister and is something he cannot fight against and must submit to at all times. Its a reminder to Ned from the White Walkers of his position possibly. like a drone strike on the idea that the Nights Watch is superior to the forces that it claims to keep at bay.....
Loved this, thank you guys ❤️
Book club!!! As if i need another reason to re-read again for the 6th time
Being the coldest point (the Others) and having no wind does make some sense. It has been a while so I could be wrong on this. High pressure wants to expand to a low pressure area just like warm air does. High pressure means air molecules bounce against each more often than low pressure. Heat is just vibrating atoms and molecules. Having high pressure converts kinetic energy to thermo energy. Think of cooking and a hydraulic press. With high pressure cooking you can cook over 100 Celsius and after using a hydraulic press on an item like a block of iron can feel hotter than before, just from intense pressure. High temperature can increase pressure and high pressure can generate heat.
Also you sound like describing the eye of a hurricane.
Never noticed the wolf howls
I think the gift of sheep and the accepting of them to be symbolic. Crastor is giving up potential food and warmth giving the sheep. The Others acceptance shows they acknowledge Crastor’s sacrifice, as something has to be given to the Others or they will visit the hut.
Crastor made a deal to exchange sons for his life.
That’s my head canon anyway.
I rate the channel but i had 12 ad breaks listening to this
If I look back I am lost 🔥🔥🐉🐲💥
He was a boy, but thought himself a man...it's like a sacrifice I feel like. The Royce is an ancient family, Waymar is knighted, he seems to be looking for "something" and he knows what it is, from the wet nurse stories, but I feel like he's knowingly walking to his sacrifice...
A thought on the whole maybe they were wights who were killed elsewhere and then went back to their camp to lay dormant for the day…..
That still doesn’t explain why the axe would be there. They wouldn’t have left it there for their original expedition. I’m not sure why the others chose to freeze these guys and slay Waymar but that seems most likely to me.
On wights and Others not coming together: I guess you can't do much yourself while you're telepathically controlling someone/something else.
Though it would still make sense for the Others to have like half of them control wights from somewhere safe and half going to the battlefield with those crystal swords. Unless it absolutely has to be all the Others simultaneously controlling all the wights.
I agree that Waymar thought they were fucking with him
Craster: "I want to keep the women."
The Others: "NP, just give us sheeps instead."
33:00 BECAUSE THE DORNISH MANS WIFE!!! My head is exploding with how much this story is starting to click 🤯🤯🤯🤯
George is very picky about the art, and has given specific instructions about things to artists. I have to imagine he'd have said something, if he didnt like the moonlight glow. I do think you had that correct, it is moonlight.
The others are also described as having nature like voices- the cracking and groaning of ice.
ETA- Imo they are giants. Possibly the giants the built the wall. (Giants dont have to be one race and probably arent, and they can range in height as well. So small giants maybe but giants) A nature based race just like the cotf. The only difference is that one is of spring, and the other is winter. But one thing is for sure they arent monsters. They have armor, weapons, magic, language- the death of waymar involved jokes and jeering- like a group of deranged teens killing a cat, not like a pack of animals.
And that has... Implications.
Also want to add on the concept of how many others are there? Yes there are crasters kids... But we know nothing about how long lived they are, and if you look at rhe stuff around the story of the night king and the right of the first night... Chances are the others have had a steady diet of northern bastards since the wall went up in the first place.
I know you and preston jacobs dont always agree but he covers this exact concept and it would at least give yall some ideas. But considering that the others are likely a small, genetically isolated humanoid species chances are they either want to colonize land or claim genetic material so they dont inbreed to death. And they want first men geners specifically- probably because they function with a semi hive mind and telepathic genes that would aid in that are common in first men.
I also feel like he's trying to throw us with the "milk" description...Dawn is described as "milk," too, but Dawn and he who wields it -- The Sword of the Morning -- is "good," right???
I think the others are the eye of their storm which is why the wind stops once they arrive.
The only thing that bugs me for over a decade by now is that these wights cant move at all. Our bodies will freeze stiff under such conditions and to animate them, they will tear itself apart. But it is a good story.
The sheep are what make the ice spiders
I loved this format the most. Does anyone know why OotG went silent?
We had a baby
Holy guacamole! These breakdowns provide so much insight I didn't get from reading alone! The prologue is extremely suspicious in hindsight. The whole thing has to be a set-up. Mormon must be in cahoots with whoever is controlling or coordinating "the others" (probably mance). Weymer is the perfect mark to test out some necromancy magic you are planning on using on a larger scale! How deep does this conspiracy go and who all is in on it!???
I don't know if I'm reaching, but could there be some significance to the no blood thing? If I understand correctly, there's some magic in blood sacrifice to the werewoods. Maybe if the white walkers were originally created by the children, theyre now opposed to feeding the old gods?
Others just chillin'. but yes, what do we really know about Others or wights? not a screaming lot, that i remember anyway. fascinating.
I like the new format, it will take a long time for the new books to be released anyway.
Good format. But take your time because you will finish the books before Winds comes out.
What if the Others are independent of the wights. What if the wights are controlled by the Children/Bloodraven? The Children were answering questions there in the woods at that time. Maybe the Others were hunting the wights 🤷🏼♂️
Love you guys
Now I have to re-read but I thought we seen the others and the whites together at the fist of the first men
Pretty sure we don't see any others there
I wonder if ancient first men houses (descending from Garth) have some kind of protection in their blood where they can’t be raised unless they are specifically killed by Others. It’s obviously not all first men since the wilding are def first men, but that magical blood. It might explain why the Starks are comfortable with having crypts and there are barrow lands in the North. If there wasn’t some sort of protection I feel like everyone in the North would be on pyres. On an amusing note…I think I understand why the show went with “white walkers” since then you can say the others with out confusing it with “the Others”
I think we all know what they do with the sheep....
Thanks dave and Mary Ellen. ( sir and milady)
Any other sweet summer children in here, who started reading this chapter and thought Will was gonna be the main character?
Why did the Others target Waymar Royce?
It can’t be a coincidence he’s descended from an ancient royal blood line that A) Is in possession of First Men armor B) Has deep connections to House Stark C) Declares "We Remember"
Can’t wait to you get around bran 2 in storm of swards bc there’s a part we’re reeds dad is in Ned’s tent why bc he ain’t there ????
Absolutely think you're correct - he thought the experienced rangers were both lazy (because he is a classist bigot) and also playing a prank in him, to haze him in front of the rest of the brothers.
The sheep question 😂
PLEASE ! ! ! Make a video of Mushroom from Dance of the Dragons !
Please :) !
Excellent!