Top row is not mph it’s actually kph been told this and after adjusting my thinking to it things lined up a little better in adjustments. Your table on the truck is not engine torque but engine kw. You can log the pedal kw also so on those you can get some of that to line up and make sense of it. The other is axle torque which you also can log that. During wot if you max torque pid is below the delivered this is where you need to log commanded axle torque vrs delivered. If delivered crosses commanded that’s when you need to raise the driver demand. I tune a lot of the 2.0t ats that use the engine kw table like the one your showing and I log pedal kw commanded vrs a few other things to see if the table needs to go up for wot or not. Usually people go too high and it then causes it to over command so tps might be 50 percent while pedal is actually 30 percent. If your table is correct along with many other things. This will match up more closely your foot to the tps. Gen v nothing works alone everything is a calculation of a few tables to get desired outcome. Just did a cam and heads in my 2017 zl1 and has been a crazy learning process vrs early gen gm. I appreciate the videos as has pointed me in the right direction on a few things for sure. Why I’m sharing some of what I know myself. Keep up the gen v stuff. I just did a few of the greg banish gen v videos and while expensive it was informative and I did learn a few good things I didn’t know yet. It’s the bits and pieces we can gather all over the place to make tuning practices correct. Thanks for taking time to do these. If I had the energy level to figure out how to post I’d do the same thing so to help the community more on it. I hold the fastest bolt on 6th gen zl1 record now going for the cam and heads and be first in the 8s on a stock blower. So all of this is helping to achieve goals. 👍
@lt1z350, do you have a link to where it shows all that info for the LTG. Ive been trusting HP software, apparently a bad idea lol. Thanks in advance brother.
Hey know its an old thread but just saying thanks for the solid info, your videos continue to make things easier to understand. Glad to see you keeping up the videos to this day. By the way, I found a vehicle referencing RPM for driver demand, the E78 ECM in a 2014 Chevrolet Sonic RS 1.4L turbo LUV engine (the E78 Cruze will be the same, check out the HPT included sample of it). I'm also tuning a 2018 Tahoe with the E92A/T43 ECM/TCM 5.3L Gen IV engine.
I tried messing with this today. The results at first were incredible. Man, everything felt amped up. It effortlessly accelerated faster than before, shifted faster than I could have imagined and it seemed like I was in boost a majority of the time. Then while cruising I give it more gas for a quick downshift and KNOCK...like 5 degrees. I then started to notice erratic shifting with stronger acceleration, like the transmission was hunting for gears in between the upshifts. I never tried WOT fearing the increasing KR that was regularly making itself known in the higher gears when under load. But MAN...the vehicle just felt plain better putn' around town with light throttle. It was so good so good I knew too good to be true. I haven't even checked the logs yet. I had a feeling this would happen. Every time I try something new in the tune and feel as though I'm truly making something better it negatively affects hard acceleration/WOT or something else. Really frustrating... 🍻😣
You are calling for more torque by doing this so the timing might be more aggressive so after you do this you should look at your timing tables and see if you need to dial them back. Ideal your high octane table should never get into knock, then if you do you take like 5 out of your low table so it has some fall back
@@GoatRopeGarage Thanks. I'll definitely get back to this section. Maybe you can point me in the right direction with something. I've been trying to figure out why 99% of my kr is from downshifting from 5-3 or 6-3. In WOT from a dig I see no KR going through gears, but cruising in 6th to 50%+ acceleration I'll see 2-4 degrees right before the downshift. What area should I looking at in the tune?
That was another excellent video buddy. Can't wait to see more of this Gen V stuff. Its alot more complicated then the Gen III & IV. Thanks again for your time and video's, you're doing great. 👊😎
I’m a gen4 guy but I can’t help it if your teaching it I’m learning it. If I understood everything you just said you must be doing something right. I like the new class room set up lol.ABT
I have a 2017 cruze manual E80 ecm it uses RPM and not VSS. I’m not looking for big power out of this thing, but just better driveability, like better throttle response, better torque off the line where it doesn’t feel nerfed/limited and the ungodly rev hang when shifting. I am pretty new to this and trying grasp all the features that HP turners can do without doing serious harm to the vehicle.
Can you make a video showing where specific tables relates to specific pid for example peak torque map =max engine torque Driver demand=comanded axel torque or actual axle torque and so on this will simplify everything for us without needING to buy some expensive gen 5 course most of us can't afford
Dang it how did I miss this !!! I didn’t mess with the table because of the warning but this is exactly what is happening to me I request 25 to 30% and only getting around 17% and a lot worse with the A/C on fills like I’m pulling a trailer. So finger crossed lol
My tuning actually went a little backwards since I rebuilt the 6l80 first and so I wound up tuning for torque initially. Finally got everything else dialed in, so I'm having to make some tweaks now. Those maps can definitely make it dangerous no doubt, but if you're smart like Kyle said you will definitely see the difference and you'll feel it. Just use some caution lol You dont wanna be 20% accelerator and 99% throttle
Just wanted to say your videos are great! I am new to HP tuners and I have been following your channel as much as I can. I do have a question about this topic. Would it be ok to use this method on my 2014 ZL1? I didn't know if the supercharged would be ok with this? Or should I start with about 5% starting on the last line instead of 10%? Thank you Sir and again I think you are doing a fantastic job on the videos!
I'm a little confused about how the changes you made would relate to the Camaro SS table just prior to it. How would I adjust the table with the torque by axle numbers? What kind of adjustments would be needed to Max out the potential for an intake and e85 on a 2018 Camaro SS? What fueling and airflow parameters should I change for these upgrades to get the most out of them? Can I make small adjustments to the Maf calibration without a wideband to get more performance from bolt ons? Wideband is on its way.
Please make a flow chart showing all controls (software) and calibration Maps (tables/surfaces) from the stage of driver pedal tip in all the way to delivered torque. *EXAMPLE:* Driver tips into pedal (throttle position) *-->>* throttle position get mapped to torque demanded (driver demand surface) *-->>* ECU seeks to meet driver demanded torque by opening throttle, advancing spark, increasing boost and enriching fuel (VE, spark and boost control maps/surfaces) *-->>* ECU then calculates predicted torque based on the previously mention maps (predicted torque surfaces) *-->>* ECU then uses torque management to protect driver and vehicle components (transmission shifting, traction control, stability, engine performance, transmission performance, etc). *NOTE:* You need to show a flowchart with all tables/surfaces linked by arrows to each other shows what happens from Driver pedal tip in all the way to deliver wheel torque (and management of torque). Then lay out along that flowchart, which tables/surface one has access to to change the way the power is deliver and or how many. THIS WILL MAKE IT CLEAR!
keep in mind... VSS in driver demand table is kilometers per hour NOT MPH ... also, i have greatly benefited from creating DD histograms which show you where you need to increase or decrease your DD based on accelerator and throttle position. helps with FI and drivability.
So may be stupid question ..... But other than seeing a stock tune (currently NOT 1 available on HP tuners.. For 2019 Camaro ZL1) is there anyway to see if a table (driver demand) has been edited already?.... My table/graph looks wonkey
If the driver disables traction control and stabiltrack(hold the traction control button for 10 seconds) or whatever you have to do to disable everything. Does the PCM still use these tables or does it ignore them? If you've already answered this I apologize, I havent gotten through all your vids yet. Thanks
I come from EFI live and the diesel worldand a little on GEN3 but i have a 2013 yukon dwnali qith the 6.2 its my wifes truck and i needed to get it back up and running quick a few years ago and it has a DOD delete and i just put a VVT stock L96 cam in it but i got my tune from mail order tuners and it is TERRIBLE my mid range throttle has just a ton of dead pedal i recently got HP to get back to messing with my duramaxes and id like to fix her denali finally but i dont want to go overboard i just want to mildly dial back the torque management and that used to be so simple on gen 3 but this is comfusing me any help would be appreciated
A friend and I both have L96 2500hd trucks, they are both dead feeling and low on torque after 2000 rpm, and milage sucks all the time. I think besides tuning the cam is the issue, mine is a little better because it seems to have different tuning being the work truck platform. Just getting a start on the tuning and it really sucks how dumbed down the power is, I believe all to just make the cats do their best, good luck brother.
@Tom-7777 I totally agree I'm messing with it in my free time on Sundays it's AWD and I can't find anyone with an AWD dyno nearly long enough for a Yukon Denali XL lol
So this basically where I can tune my pedal to be more responsive even at low loads if let's say I want it to be more responsive since I am an offroad guy great info but someone at the hp tuners forums said that the way to do this is via airflow>electronic throttle map a ,map b etc... I am lost now man these forums always confuse me on certain topics
@@GoatRopeGarage ok got it just to be clear is this direct like I move this table and my pedal response change directly or is there something else to touch on like in dodge they will need to decrease their timing values at tip in throttle to allow them to have more response does this apply here or its irrelevant and this will directly get me where I want
I have a 2013 Hyundai Veloster that Im trying to tweak its tune (not stock tune, prev owner put something in it). I've added mods since its last tune. Seeing that the throttle actual pos is only 85% when commanded pos is 100% (WOT) in HPT data logs. Could this be due to bad numbers in my torque tables/ driver demand?
Throttle position is logging in SAE so 85% is going to be max based on the standards they set forth, if there is an option to log the non-SAE parameter use it and it should go to 100%
Similar to Leon's comment regarding traction control, when logging Accelerator position (non SAE) vs Throttle position, is it a sure sign that the peak torque map is limiting the engines output IF you see the Throttle position close during a portion of a pull? IE will others factors such as traction control not do the same thing? I assume traction control only modifies the spark map but I wasn't sure. BTW great videos. New to the GM/HPTuners thing and really appreciate how helpful these are.
Your can see what options TCS has enabled on your tune, but usually spark is the main one. You won't see the throttle close so much as it stops opening when going WoT, kind of hands usually.
@@GoatRopeGarage Interesting. Mine comes up as RPM. Do a burble tune tutorial video? ;) I can't get my drivability right when I try to make pops. Been looking through your videos to learn more. I basically am trying to figure out how to pull timing only on decel.
I'm a simple man. I maxed all torque values. I get wheel spin at 25% throttle. Me happy.
So much great info. Don't even have a tuner and I can't stop watching this series
Top row is not mph it’s actually kph been told this and after adjusting my thinking to it things lined up a little better in adjustments. Your table on the truck is not engine torque but engine kw. You can log the pedal kw also so on those you can get some of that to line up and make sense of it. The other is axle torque which you also can log that. During wot if you max torque pid is below the delivered this is where you need to log commanded axle torque vrs delivered. If delivered crosses commanded that’s when you need to raise the driver demand. I tune a lot of the 2.0t ats that use the engine kw table like the one your showing and I log pedal kw commanded vrs a few other things to see if the table needs to go up for wot or not. Usually people go too high and it then causes it to over command so tps might be 50 percent while pedal is actually 30 percent. If your table is correct along with many other things. This will match up more closely your foot to the tps. Gen v nothing works alone everything is a calculation of a few tables to get desired outcome. Just did a cam and heads in my 2017 zl1 and has been a crazy learning process vrs early gen gm. I appreciate the videos as has pointed me in the right direction on a few things for sure. Why I’m sharing some of what I know myself. Keep up the gen v stuff. I just did a few of the greg banish gen v videos and while expensive it was informative and I did learn a few good things I didn’t know yet. It’s the bits and pieces we can gather all over the place to make tuning practices correct. Thanks for taking time to do these. If I had the energy level to figure out how to post I’d do the same thing so to help the community more on it. I hold the fastest bolt on 6th gen zl1 record now going for the cam and heads and be first in the 8s on a stock blower. So all of this is helping to achieve goals. 👍
Appreciate for sharing, the more knowledge the better!!
@lt1z350, do you have a link to where it shows all that info for the LTG. Ive been trusting HP software, apparently a bad idea lol.
Thanks in advance brother.
Hey know its an old thread but just saying thanks for the solid info, your videos continue to make things easier to understand. Glad to see you keeping up the videos to this day.
By the way, I found a vehicle referencing RPM for driver demand, the E78 ECM in a 2014 Chevrolet Sonic RS 1.4L turbo LUV engine (the E78 Cruze will be the same, check out the HPT included sample of it). I'm also tuning a 2018 Tahoe with the E92A/T43 ECM/TCM 5.3L Gen IV engine.
I tried messing with this today. The results at first were incredible. Man, everything felt amped up. It effortlessly accelerated faster than before, shifted faster than I could have imagined and it seemed like I was in boost a majority of the time. Then while cruising I give it more gas for a quick downshift and KNOCK...like 5 degrees. I then started to notice erratic shifting with stronger acceleration, like the transmission was hunting for gears in between the upshifts.
I never tried WOT fearing the increasing KR that was regularly making itself known in the higher gears when under load.
But MAN...the vehicle just felt plain better putn' around town with light throttle. It was so good so good I knew too good to be true. I haven't even checked the logs yet.
I had a feeling this would happen. Every time I try something new in the tune and feel as though I'm truly making something better it negatively affects hard acceleration/WOT or something else. Really frustrating... 🍻😣
You are calling for more torque by doing this so the timing might be more aggressive so after you do this you should look at your timing tables and see if you need to dial them back. Ideal your high octane table should never get into knock, then if you do you take like 5 out of your low table so it has some fall back
@@GoatRopeGarage
Thanks. I'll definitely get back to this section. Maybe you can point me in the right direction with something.
I've been trying to figure out why 99% of my kr is from downshifting from 5-3 or 6-3. In WOT from a dig I see no KR going through gears, but cruising in 6th to 50%+ acceleration I'll see 2-4 degrees right before the downshift. What area should I looking at in the tune?
That was another excellent video buddy.
Can't wait to see more of this Gen V stuff.
Its alot more complicated then the Gen III & IV.
Thanks again for your time and video's, you're doing great. 👊😎
I’m a gen4 guy but I can’t help it if your teaching it I’m learning it. If I understood everything you just said you must be doing something right. I like the new class room set up lol.ABT
It works!!! Car feels so much faster thank you Kyle
Nick..... Which table(s) did you edit?
I have a 2017 cruze manual E80 ecm it uses RPM and not VSS. I’m not looking for big power out of this thing, but just better driveability, like better throttle response, better torque off the line where it doesn’t feel nerfed/limited and the ungodly rev hang when shifting. I am pretty new to this and trying grasp all the features that HP turners can do without doing serious harm to the vehicle.
I need to boost my throttle response under Sport Mode on my Challenger.
Can you make a video showing where specific tables relates to specific pid for example peak torque map =max engine torque
Driver demand=comanded axel torque or actual axle torque and so on this will simplify everything for us without needING to buy some expensive gen 5 course most of us can't afford
Dang it how did I miss this !!! I didn’t mess with the table because of the warning but this is exactly what is happening to me I request 25 to 30% and only getting around 17% and a lot worse with the A/C on fills like I’m pulling a trailer. So finger crossed lol
I like this format, I don’t even have to put on cheaters to see the numbers in the tables.
What table would you adjust to get rid of the throttle lag down low in the Tahoe’s?
My tuning actually went a little backwards since I rebuilt the 6l80 first and so I wound up tuning for torque initially. Finally got everything else dialed in, so I'm having to make some tweaks now. Those maps can definitely make it dangerous no doubt, but if you're smart like Kyle said you will definitely see the difference and you'll feel it. Just use some caution lol You dont wanna be 20% accelerator and 99% throttle
Yeah, I tried that once for fun and almost wrecked, lmao
@@GoatRopeGarage same here! Felt like I was running Top fuel till I went to leave the stop sign down the street Bout turned side ways Haha
Really appreciate this channel... thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Just wanted to say your videos are great! I am new to HP tuners and I have been following your channel as much as I can.
I do have a question about this topic. Would it be ok to use this method on my 2014 ZL1? I didn't know if the supercharged would be ok with this? Or should I start with about 5% starting on the last line instead of 10%?
Thank you Sir and again I think you are doing a fantastic job on the videos!
Applies regardless, so you're good to go
@@GoatRopeGarage Ok. Thank you very much!! Love the channel!
I'm a little confused about how the changes you made would relate to the Camaro SS table just prior to it. How would I adjust the table with the torque by axle numbers? What kind of adjustments would be needed to Max out the potential for an intake and e85 on a 2018 Camaro SS? What fueling and airflow parameters should I change for these upgrades to get the most out of them? Can I make small adjustments to the Maf calibration without a wideband to get more performance from bolt ons? Wideband is on its way.
The 2013 Chevy cruze 1.8L has the driver demand row axis is rpm against accel pedal %
Found out the DD tables in my 2018 Camaro SS the VSS is in kph. Curious how many platforms this is the same on.
These are great, thank you for taking the time.
So the bottom row gets adjusted 3 times while second from bottom gets adjusted twice and the third from the bottom only once?
Awsome man. Thanks for all your hard work.
strange, I have a 2018 camaro ss manual and i have the table like the silverado but it tops out around 383
Please make a flow chart showing all controls (software) and calibration Maps (tables/surfaces) from the stage of driver pedal tip in all the way to delivered torque.
*EXAMPLE:*
Driver tips into pedal (throttle position) *-->>* throttle position get mapped to torque demanded (driver demand surface) *-->>* ECU seeks to meet driver demanded torque by opening throttle, advancing spark, increasing boost and enriching fuel (VE, spark and boost control maps/surfaces) *-->>* ECU then calculates predicted torque based on the previously mention maps (predicted torque surfaces) *-->>* ECU then uses torque management to protect driver and vehicle components (transmission shifting, traction control, stability, engine performance, transmission performance, etc).
*NOTE:* You need to show a flowchart with all tables/surfaces linked by arrows to each other shows what happens from Driver pedal tip in all the way to deliver wheel torque (and management of torque). Then lay out along that flowchart, which tables/surface one has access to to change the way the power is deliver and or how many. THIS WILL MAKE IT CLEAR!
So for gen 3 and 4 you can tune for throttle response via the electronic throttle under airflow But on gen 5 it's driver demand instead?
keep in mind... VSS in driver demand table is kilometers per hour NOT MPH ... also, i have greatly benefited from creating DD histograms which show you where you need to increase or decrease your DD based on accelerator and throttle position. helps with FI and drivability.
More good info, thanks for sharing! I need to do a video on doing a driver demand histo soon.
Did you ever make a dd histo??
Love the new format!
16 denali did cam vvt removed did tune it keeps going into reduce engene power any ideas no codes
Can you tech as how to tune after instilling big air intake filter!!! Plz
Check out the tuning playlist, will help with things like that.
th-cam.com/play/PLxTMckx4RYqmWr0x6J5oEO01pSgOUMOwa.html
2017 ATS-V uses RPM instead of VSS.
Nice, thanks for the update
So may be stupid question ..... But other than seeing a stock tune (currently NOT 1 available on HP tuners.. For 2019 Camaro ZL1) is there anyway to see if a table (driver demand) has been edited already?....
My table/graph looks wonkey
Not really, though I might be able to tell from looking at it. I'll give yours a look today.
If the driver disables traction control and stabiltrack(hold the traction control button for 10 seconds) or whatever you have to do to disable everything. Does the PCM still use these tables or does it ignore them? If you've already answered this I apologize, I havent gotten through all your vids yet. Thanks
Should ignore the traction control setpoints, but the torque management will still be there.
I come from EFI live and the diesel worldand a little on GEN3 but i have a 2013 yukon dwnali qith the 6.2 its my wifes truck and i needed to get it back up and running quick a few years ago and it has a DOD delete and i just put a VVT stock L96 cam in it but i got my tune from mail order tuners and it is TERRIBLE my mid range throttle has just a ton of dead pedal i recently got HP to get back to messing with my duramaxes and id like to fix her denali finally but i dont want to go overboard i just want to mildly dial back the torque management and that used to be so simple on gen 3 but this is comfusing me any help would be appreciated
A friend and I both have L96 2500hd trucks, they are both dead feeling and low on torque after 2000 rpm, and milage sucks all the time. I think besides tuning the cam is the issue, mine is a little better because it seems to have different tuning being the work truck platform. Just getting a start on the tuning and it really sucks how dumbed down the power is, I believe all to just make the cats do their best, good luck brother.
@Tom-7777 I totally agree I'm messing with it in my free time on Sundays it's AWD and I can't find anyone with an AWD dyno nearly long enough for a Yukon Denali XL lol
Hi kyle can you tell me “what engine run time (s) “ refers to?
How long the engine has been running in seconds, those tables are just for the initial start
Goat Rope Garage so after 60 seconds the entire table is discarded?
@@MALR7 depends, which table are you talking about? Most likely
Sooo mine isn’t like this layout ofc cause i have a dodge so I only have pedal characteristics with power % request and (flywheel) (wheel) request
Dodge has some weird parameters with their v6 lineups
So this basically where I can tune my pedal to be more responsive even at low loads if let's say I want it to be more responsive since I am an offroad guy great info but someone at the hp tuners forums said that the way to do this is via airflow>electronic throttle map a ,map b etc... I am lost now man these forums always confuse me on certain topics
If you're on a torque based ECM like the 5th gen it's here
@@GoatRopeGarage ok got it just to be clear is this direct like I move this table and my pedal response change directly or is there something else to touch on like in dodge they will need to decrease their timing values at tip in throttle to allow them to have more response does this apply here or its irrelevant and this will directly get me where I want
Can we get some dodge tuning ???
Good info I love it ! ABT
The Land Rover TD5 driver demand maps use RPM.
I have a 2013 Hyundai Veloster that Im trying to tweak its tune (not stock tune, prev owner put something in it). I've added mods since its last tune. Seeing that the throttle actual pos is only 85% when commanded pos is 100% (WOT) in HPT data logs. Could this be due to bad numbers in my torque tables/ driver demand?
Throttle position is logging in SAE so 85% is going to be max based on the standards they set forth, if there is an option to log the non-SAE parameter use it and it should go to 100%
@@GoatRopeGarage that gets a big THANKS!!!!
Seadoo, can i email you a seadoo tune and ask a couple minor questions
So when you have a big modified blown gen V, and making much much more power. You would need much more then 20% Increase in the last 3 rows only??
Similar to Leon's comment regarding traction control, when logging Accelerator position (non SAE) vs Throttle position, is it a sure sign that the peak torque map is limiting the engines output IF you see the Throttle position close during a portion of a pull? IE will others factors such as traction control not do the same thing? I assume traction control only modifies the spark map but I wasn't sure.
BTW great videos. New to the GM/HPTuners thing and really appreciate how helpful these are.
Your can see what options TCS has enabled on your tune, but usually spark is the main one. You won't see the throttle close so much as it stops opening when going WoT, kind of hands usually.
@@GoatRopeGarage If I use the Navigator what would I search on to find those options? Thanks
Top row on a C7 Corvette Z06 is RPM, not VSS.
Can be either.
@@GoatRopeGarage Interesting. Mine comes up as RPM. Do a burble tune tutorial video? ;) I can't get my drivability right when I try to make pops. Been looking through your videos to learn more. I basically am trying to figure out how to pull timing only on decel.
2011 grand marquis uses rpm
No sound???
Can you reach out to me I'd like to pick your brain on a few things.