333: I Was WRONG About 308 Week
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ย. 2023
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! It turns out I didn't get everything right about 308 Week, but luckily, I have all of you to set me straight. I follow up on your corrections and questions about 308 Week on this episode of Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
I can’t believe how many people give you such a hard time, Ron. You’ve got thick skin to take all of it in stride. Keep up the great work. I really enjoy your content.
He’s laughing all the way to the bank!
Thanks Reed. I appreciate all you good folks who "have my back." You're right about the thick skin, but it's also the wisdom (gained slowly and somewhat painfully over many decades) to understand how human nature drives folks to find fault, bitch and moan, and play the"gotcha!" game. It's especially easy incognito on social media. Meet most of these folks face-to-face and they're probably polite and reasonable. And I find that there is enough conflict and misery in the world. I don't want to contribute by hurling insults on-line. Our hobby should give us respite from life's daily grind. So hunt honest, shoot straight, and be happy!
@@RonSpomerOutdoors good position, Ron.
@@RonSpomerOutdoorsI enjoyed this video. You are an incredibly patient and humble man. keep up the good work.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors you're a gentleman Ron. I don't believe there's many people out there who genuinely dislike you... Not many if any..
Thanks for all the wisdom and knowledge.
Warm regards from Australia.
Holy crap everyone is a know it all. Ron if your happy with your groups then so be it. Shooting technique is somewhat subjective Ron’s not trying to be a competitive shooter.
I thought you did a fine job with 308 week! Keep em coming.
You’re a stand up guy Ron. Thanks for your time and energy
Thank you Adam.
Loved the .308 week and the regular Joe collaboration
I enjoyed the series and thought it was a good apples to apples comparison. I was surprised how well the Springfield did as well as the little Ruger, but that Savage was really remarkable!
im a 308 guy and i tought u redeemed urself pretty good thanks a lot ron
I'll say what Ron is too nice to say. This thing is so full of know-it-alls that are correcting a man that has made his living in the rifle/hunting world for decades. 😂
I'm no Eric Cortina, but I do agree when he states the 'cold bore' shot matters (just watched one of his videos where he said this). As a hunter, I'm not going to be sending 3-10 rounds per animal. Nor, do I hunt in areas where I shoot past 200yds. Normally 100yd and in. If my rifle/ammo combo is consistent, between the third and the tenth shot, I know what I'm taking into the field.
I went from 30-30 to .270 to .280 to 7mm-08 and finally settled on the .308 and haven't looked back. I thought .308 week was great.
I also take rifle comparisons in stride. One person shooting a few rifles with a few bullets does not a true comparison make. I can't appreciate a rifle until at least the recoil lug has been glass bedded and better with the whole action bedded and barrel floated.👍
Sounds as if you've worked it out, James. Good job.
Gezz people! Ron you have lifetime of experience, more than most. You’re being a good sport addressing the “Keyboard Warriors”.
A three shot group is adequate for testing the accuracy of a hunting rifle. One shot, dead deer, two shots, maybe dead deer, three shots, deer got away.
For the question in alaska, I would suggest 30-06. Then have the father carry a 10mm/44mag/454 in a chest holster having a pistol that can stop any threat is quite valuable in the back woods.
Ron you are a gentleman- shooting is a world of know it alls, self-styled guru's and poorly formed opinions. Anyone who has done it for more than a couple of decades KNOWS there is an element of alchemy to rifles and that true gunsmiths- not lego assemblers- are like like swordsmiths, mysterious and arcane and that shooting can be taught, rifles accurized, bullets waved over a potion and it still requires skill and ideal conditions to make the best rifle shoot every round true at every range everytime. Thank you and I doff my hat to you for an informative and entertaining series!
Hey Ron. Thanks for using my comment on your video. Have a great day!!!
Great job Ron with 308 week.
Ron your humility is inspiring I really mean that.
You have such a good sense of humor :)
I get a kick out of those who do not appreciate your experience and your knowledge and correct you like you are just starting out. My gosh Ron - You have to do a video and just talk about your background, and your years of experience. Maybe that will set them straight. You have the patience of a saint.
I appreciate that, Golden. I resist tooting my own horn, but there are enough young shooters coming "on-line" that perhaps a bit of biographical data would put Grandpa Ron into perspective. I'll discuss with the team. Who knows... Thanks for the support!
You were wrong? You did fine, and need to do the same thing with the 30-06/270win. week. For that matter all of the popular cal./cart. Great Show.
Dear Mr. Spomer, I truly have to commend and thank you.. You are very humble and have the thick skin of a Rhino.. Half the people who throw shade haven't seen a fraction of what you have or been anywhere... You do a Great video series and you are a wealth of knowledge,. Be encouraged, most of us are on your side.. I remember reading your articles when I was just a kid,, still have some in my library... Thank You.
I really enjoyed .308 week. Keep it up.
As did I.
Thanks Ron. I dont care what anyone else says about you.. you are alright in my book!!!!
Thanks Don!
I cant bite my tongue im sorry 😂 .. some of yall talk and email Ron likes hes a new shooter like he hasnt been shooting longer then some of y'all commentors have been alive ... I love the interaction and 99% of peoples letters/emails getting different perspectives...but the nonsense when there blatantly dumb is a insult to this man's intelligence and thr fact that he even politely entertains it is a testament to his character
Just my opinion. If this is how you learned to shoot from the bench and you do it consistently I didn't see the need to change. But maybe you can fine tune your methods or if you spend some time with an expert bench shooter and they find some bad habits that can cause problems work on that. I'm a lefty and have been told I'm doing it wrong all my life. I shoot well enough to do what I want too. I shoot squirrels in the head with open sights on my 22lr within 50 yards. I can stretch that out to about 80 yards with my scope 22lr. Beyond that I can't see the squirrels very good anyway. Thank you for the 308 week. I have a TC compass and was really disappointed with it. It's not as accurate as the rifles you used, but it is closer than I expected. As for 3 or 5 shot groups. I was fine with 3 shot groups because that's what my rifle can do well, but shots 4 and 5 really get off center due barrel heating. Really for hunting 3 shot groups should be good enough because if you have to shoot more than 3 shots at a deer something has already gone way wrong..thank you for all the great videos and information. I'm learning a lot about ballistics. Till now I didn't really think about it mainly because I didn't shoot beyond 200 yards anyway.
Ron i think you info and insight is worth its weight in gold . People listening need to understand each shooter is different. What works for some may not work for others . I think your results speak for themselves , we as hunters and shooters are learning more every day .
When I first started watching your videos I believe that I made a negative comment about one. I apologize as I did not have sufficient familiarity with your style of presentation. I now consider you to be one of the top podcast gurus. I rate you with Hickok 45 and Paul Harrell an exceptional pair.
I am a big fan of the 308 with 3 hunting rifles (T3, Rem-700, BRX-1) in that caliber. Ron did a great job with the the 308 week. Great comparisons. Keep up the good work.
you've always done it right Ron!
Well, I doubt that, but I do try and I surely appreciate your support, Sig.
"Sniper's zero" ,the first shot from a totally cooled barrel is not always considered when hunting (or sniping for that matter), but it often lies outside the sighting-in groups.
Here's my take on the fist question about shooting position . The key to success it to be able to adapt your shooting position to different situations. However with a decent degree of repeatability. Each shooter is going to have a bit of a different hold . What os done for positioning at the range is most times not feasible in the field unless you are shooting off a rest or you are in a blind. Practice in different positions will help you in many conditions. I have taken shots on game from my knees half crouching and with no rest of any kind and holding and or mounting your rifle in these conditions is not the same as from a bench
It amazes me how critical so many are on you Ron. I’m your age and I’m sure you’ve shot more elk and deer ect… than many of these critics will ever see. I understand you’re not a competition target shooter. You’re a very experienced hunter. Big game won’t stand there while you go down the checklist of techniques. You are a modern day Jack O’Connor for sure. We all have learned from you and you are respected by many including me.
Another option for the young person in Alaska is to use reduced-recoil loads with a harder-kicking cartridge like the 300 Win mag, or even a 30-06 or 308, if recoil is really a problem. The backup rounds can be full power. Hornady makes "Custom Lite", Remington makes "Managed Recoil", Federal makes "Fusion Lite", HSM makes "Low Recoil" and there are probably others.
Yes exactly! I tell people almost the same thing. If a someone is buying a first rifle for a young person and they do not want too much recoil then there is no point in buying a 243 (6mm, 6.5 Creedmore, or 25-06) if they are living in Moose and Elk territory. Get a 7mm-08, 308, 270, or 30-06 and use “reduced-recoil” cartridges, then when the young person grows up then they can switch to full power cartridges.
~Also for reduced recoil a person could buy a long barrel (like 22” or 24”) rifle with a ‘muzzle brake’, just as long as it does not cause hearing damage.
~Put a recoil pad sewn into a jacket or vest and/or buy one of the very best recoil pads like Remington SuperCell installed on to a rifle.
I was surprised not to see a couple of levers like the Henry or BLR in 308. Good accuracy and for most people a quicker follow up shot if needed.
Hi Ron! If you want to come to Australia, it would be really cool to see you take 1 of each species of deer in different areas maybe like a challenge? For example maybe a Fallow in Tasmania, Sambar and Hog deer in Victoria, Red stag in New South Wales Rusa and Chital in Queensland. Thanks for all the great content, keep up the good work!
Atomik, I like the way you think! The logistics, however, sound a bit daunting. You offering guide service?
Your shooting was fine Ron. A good demonstration of how to do it. Those guys giving you advice, probably need more help than they think. I don't think the rifles were all too accurate though. Even though they were chambered for the infamous and "inherently accurate" 308win. I like your videos. You are a wealth of knowledge. Thanks for what you do. Now, as for 3, 5 or 10 shot groups. Your explanation is very true. It boils down to the manufactures making those accuracy guarantees, so they can sell their rifles. When I prove a load, or want to determine absolute zero, I'll shoot some 10 shot groups. If/when you have a rifle that shoots sub moa for 10 shots, you'll know you have something. You know that though. Keep up the good work Ron. Thanks!!
Ron your a classic and a gentleman. Your wisdom brings a lot to the gun world table and you also have a gift in adressing so many misconception in the hunting parlances. On the 3 to 5 to 10 shot groups, what is seriously missing today is that first cold bore shot group as so many use that shot as their hunting first shot and not multiple shot group size. Shoot your first shot cold, let cool to original temperature shoot again repeat etc. I have yet to see an animal that benifits from a bad foul shot.
I think the 308 series was great! People need to realize there is a limit to how much one can do in such a test. Everyone is a critic and seem to think they can do better but I don't see them putting in the work to present such a video. I admire your ability to let the criticism slide off and just keep going. Keep up the good work most of us very much enjoy your content.
Thanks Big Jimmy.
Shot my first deer ever with the 300 savage. Right now it has a broken rear stock where it joins the action... but i found a stock for it and next year I'll use it again for a trip down memory lane. Probably a closer to a 308 I'll get.... but i also know where a minty remington pump is that in 308 so who knows lol great show Ron thanks for all you do
Thanks Ron for the great content…I appreciate your knowledge and enjoy hearing stories of your various adventures…As someone who only gets to hunt a few times a year it’s nice to be able to keep up to date with caliber/gun related content
Hi Ron. Maybe you can bring a U.S.M.C drill instructor on the show to straighten us all out on how to shoot correctly. .308 week was great! Cheers.
There has been studies on this as far as when you feel recoil. The bullet leaves the barrel before there is any movement or recoil. The recoil from a cartridge comes from the gases leaving the barrel. More powder more recoil, physics.
I agree with PJ that a 3 shot group does not show you the true results of a rifle. A 5 shot group I think for what your doing would be the best. Yes others will disagree and say you need minimum of 10. Either way, still good info Ron, thank you
I have to laugh a little here. The reality is that with today’s CNC machining and good’ol competition most rifles made today shoot well and all the rifles you shot were fine shooters. I have cheap Rem 783’s and with hand loads I’ve developed for them and if I have a good day on the bench I can get sub MOA groups. If I want to get excellent accuracy, a match grade barrel would be the way to go, and I would have a more accurate rifle than most if not all of the rifles you tested and for less money. I also laugh a little about all the suggestions about your bench shooting technique. You are doing what works for you and by golly doing it pretty darn well too. Glad you got thick skin Ron, keep up the good work.
Good job Ron! I’ve often thought there is only one shot where accuracy is important, and that’s the first shot. After that, what ever you shot at is bouncing off. 😂
I agree that first shot accuracy is the most important, but 2nd and 3rd are darn useful, too. I've put solid "finisher" or anchoring shots into a variety of game with 2nd and 3rd shots over the decades. And a few times I didn't score a hit until my 3rd shot. Used to shoot running game routinely in the 1960s and 70s.
On the subject of magnum primers I have recently started loading 45 acp. And all I had on hand was cci no 300 large pistol magnum primers. And bluedot and unique powder with 230 grain jhp bullets.
I used 6-6.7 grains of unique powder and 8-8.7 grains of bluedot. Loads cycled just fine the bluedot made some wonderful muzzle flashes. Because it didn't burn all the way, otherwise I'm happy. I noticed less recoil than factory loads. But accuracy is still work in progress.
I'm starting on 223 soon as well for my savage axis. That will be my first rifle cartige I'm reloading for.
Hey Ron, love your channel. It’s Barb again. I realized that I forgot to give you my background when I gave you a hard time about your shooting style.
I’m retired military. I was qualified as an expert marksman in both rifle and pistol. That means 98 out of a hundred shot’s found their mark. The last 10 are at 800m with a worn out Vietnam era M-16!!!! I also went through the NRA’s marksmanship training and shot competitively in several different disciplines.
The reason you don’t leave the charging handle out is that when you hit the bolt release it grabs that handle and SLAMS it into the receiver!!!! That’s how it breaks. Don’t let it bother you though, I don’t hunt with an AR either 😂. All of my hunting rifles are bolt action with the exception of my AR7 survival rifle. I haven’t had to use it for that reason yet😂😂😂😂. Just target plinking.
Ron , You're way too polite to all the third baseman's comments about your shooting technique....Thanks for the info.
Mike
One other reason for 3 shot groups for MOA is that on thin barrels after they heat the point of impact can change significantly. Especially if it is warm out. Those other factors have merit but the largest is the fact of accuracy with the barrel heating up. You get mirage from that heated barrel. Which could be the most likely reason the accuracy falls off on the thinner barrels that heat faster. That comes from a barrel manufacturer.
Hey, you do you. I have over time, after deciding I have a rifle I like and will hunt with it, I always shorten the stock to fit me better. I also find a pet handload for the rifle. The Marine Corps improved my shooting decades ago. They were insistent on repeatable results. That was achieved by making sure everything was done the same every time. Prior to shooting, I spend a bit of time dry firing, to check myself. Am I mounting the gun right, controlling my breath right, jerking or squeezing the trigger, and does the gun after pulling the trigger come back on target. These are things I do (not prescribing to anyone), to shoot as well as I can.
I don’t always agree with your takes but I appreciate this video and the time and knowledge you give the community. Finally subscribed. Keep up the good work
Thanks Devin. Glad to have your support.
Ron, I have often wondered about the 6mm-06, so consider me a pro vote for a video. I'm curious how it would compare to the 240WBY.
As the the “number of rounds” in a group debate.
Here’s what I do.
In load testing and work up on a precision rifle. I shoot a 2 shot group. If those two shots touch I shoot more.
If the two shots do not touch you don’t bother with a third and make a change to the load.
If the rifle is a lesser precision rifle, hunting rifle, surplus rifle. I do my same load work up tests but I shoot more rounds per step per group and I do not expect the shots to touch.
With experience a precision reloaded/shooter can get all the information they need with three shot groups. More shots are better to build a bigger picture of what the rifle is truly capable of. But that said anything more than five perfectly aimed shots is a waste of ammo
About Alaska, the 30-06 is still the most popular cartridge and available everywhere, I would stick with a 165-168 Grns all arround. A 180 would be even better, but it might kick a bit more depending on the rifle. And it's about bullet placement over bullet weight. If you flinch on a 200-220 Grns but not with a 165, that's the one for everything. Was trying out handloads in my 30-06 (165 Speer Grand slams) 1917 Enfield, whithout recoil issues, a neighbor party asked me to try a new Interarms Mk X, Beautifull, but it rapped me smartly cheek and shoulder, Ok braced and calmly took 3 shots(If you know/expect it, it is manageable) The Scope was useless and guess the guy didn't fill his tag thar season. Same cartridge dif rifle. Could shoot 50 rounds to sight in/try loads in mine pleasantly, but akward in another gun
For Alaska maybe check out Hornady >Superformance< 165 and 180 grain SST “30-06” cartridges that have more power (more FPS) than regular cartridges.
I agree with a bunch of comments, the shooting community is full of know it all's, and Im guilty of that myself.. There comes a time when constructive criticism becomes running someone down a a guy needs to just let it go and find his own niche.
Ron, you are a great shot and you don’t need to explain yourself and your methods to ppl who feel the need to say something about how to do it better just because they think they know best. One thing I can definitely corroborate is sling swivel studs hitting the bags or shooting rests can definitely effect your groups. But you also said that in the video with one of the rifles so you know your stuff Ronny, keep up the great work! Cheers from Canada eh 🍻🇨🇦👍🏻
I've been messing with something different. this is for bench shooting. this isn't great for follow up shots, because the gun jumps after each, but the first shot will be on. okay what I've done is attached a golf ball sized nob to the wrist of my gun, it's a montecarlo style stock. I'm right-handed, so I take my left hand make a fist and rest the nob between my thumb and index finger. by relaxing the fist or tensing it I can adjust fine windage and elevation and it's easy to hold. all I have to take is the gun ear plugs and ammo. a bipod is already attached to the gun. I got tired of sandbags and pillows and stuff. I used the wrist cap screw that was already there to attach my nob. I didn't actually do anything permanent to the gun.
Ron, you have never hunted with a savage 99? You need to get one. You like lever actions, right? I have seen MANY 99's in 300 savage, but when I got mine, I chose 308 and 243. I also had a 30-30 and a 250. I had 3 308's and two 243's, still have one of each yet. All 5 of these rifles were great hunting rifles. I didn't get around to hunting with the 30-30 or 250, but I have no doubt that they would have been just as satisfactory.
My dad went from a Savage 99 to a Winchester 88 in 308 which I have now.
I'm both shocked and amazed at you Ron, your apparent & obvious inability to shoot properly from a bench, And, create a very popular YT channel about Shooting & hunting that clearly attracts thousands of experts seems a bit paradoxical,,,, but I'm no expert and really enjoy your videos.
The 300 Savage has less head height than the 308 (.73" vs .795"). This means that some of the sleeker, longer-ogived 308 bullets might not fit in the magazine of a model 99. I know that Hornady makes a stubbier 150 grain SST specifically for the 300 Savage, but I don't know about the 150 grain Accubond. It would be best to check with Nosler on that one.
Ron, really enjoyed the series. As regards techniques, everybody has their differences. For me bench-rest is irrelevant. How the rifle shoots off a pack, sticks etc is what matters, as that is how you shoot in the field.
As a hunter, you are wise to keep your focus on field shooting performance. We'll be doing some more videos on just that soon.
Really enjoy your videos Ron. With light rifles which have recoil - 308, and my 6lb 7x65R combination definitely does, I have found a firm grip, including on the forend, to control the recoil really helps with consistent accuracy. I don’t rest the rifle, instead I rest my body and in particular my hands.
RON
I would love to hear your take on a couple Fantastic wildcat cartridges that I believe you have not talked about.
My favorite is the 308 Norma Magnum
And the other is 8mm-06
Shooters i talk to never have heard about either one, even though they have been around a long time.
I'm a 308 fan it's not best at anything but it's good at everything.
I’m a little sketched out about five shot groups with a pencil barrel though and what does it say if the barrel is super hot anyway. I guess you could take 20 shot group all from a totally cold bore which would take days. If you’re a target shooter then things would obviously be different but for hunting. I mean I’ve never heard of hunting practice shot to let those deer get ready.
Or switch to a 1 piece scope base 10 or 20 moa may change scope just enough but not as high as a medium ring
While your at it.. Ya might want to incorporate into this try out suggestions..How to work the bolt on a bolt action n why.
I mentioned to you once on one your shows here.. I find using my palm is best rather than using fingers to grasp it.
Thanks Mike. I've covered this in a previous video, but might be time to do it again.
The Begara that my friend has required 1000 rounds before being seasoned to test for accuracy. That's from the factory recommendation which I as a Savage 110 owner reacted with send it back if they are charging that price and not conditioning thier barrels any better then that.
In what cartridge? Some barrels burn out by then!
@dukedenarie5858 that is my point. And it was in 6.5 CREEDMOOR.
I know that most Alaskans may choose a 300WM. I have, and use, a rifle chambered in .30-06. The favourite gun used by Canadian Inuit for all their hunting, including polar bears (grizzlies are puppies compared to these) is a Lee Enfield #4 chambered in .303Br, with a 180 grain bullet. Used for moose, caribou, and polar bear.
As a matter of fact, I was on a military arctic survival course once. The elder who was teaching spoke no English, so his grandson translated for us. At one point, he (the elder) decided that he wanted the polar bear we had run across for family food. He sent a runner back to call his family out to help. Then, he started stalking this bear. His intention eas to kill it using his favourite rifle, a M-94 Winchester. 30-30! We thought he was crazy and his grandson told him that. He just smiled and replied that he wasn't worried since his grandson was a Crack shot and would back him up with the high-powered rifle ... his .303Br!
Old man got to within 50 yds, one shot, his family showed up and made fast work getting that animal cut up and home.
It was amazing.
Everyone is a master shooter Ron. I thought you knew that. You did a great job, I'm not a fan of that weak little 308 I'm a magnum fella 270wby 300wby and 340 wby
From 5858 to 5860, are those vanguards or mark v’s by chance? I always wanted a weatherby that must be chambered in a wby cartridge. Thinking of that new 6.5 rpm.
@dukedenarie5858 the 270 and 340 are mark v's the 300 is a vanguard. The weatherby clamberings in the vanguard are 240, 257, 6.5x300, and the 300. Everything else is in the mark v.
I also had a 99 in 358 Winchester but I didn't get a chance to hunt with it either. Unfortunately life doesn't always go the way we want.
My 99 is a takedown 30-30.
@@chrisblake1918are you familiar with the movie "death hunt", starring Charles Bronson playing the "mad trapper" Albert Johnson? In real life, during the actual manhunt, the real Albert Johnson carried a savage 99 in 30-30, along with some other firearms.
@@fedup3582 I have a takedown 30-30 99. Love it! Oh, and I'll see if that is on Netflix.
Back in bench rest days {60's} it was all 10 shot groups.
On wikipedia, they show the 35 winchester self loading, which was the forerunner to the 351 Winchester self loading. I think the 35 WCF you are talking about is the cartridge chambered in the 1895, an intermediate cartridge between the 405 and the 30-40 krag. It pushed a 250 gr bullet about 2200 fps.
By golly, Fedup, I think that's the one! They stopped loading it about 1930 according to C. of the World. I've never seen one.
When I was in AK I asked the locals what gun to use hunting Sitka Black tails. The are not very big, Answer was 375 H&H. We had been pursued by a brown beer we did not see. How do I know, we went up to to the next muskeg field and there was a steaming black pile of bear crap the size of a basket ball. we looked around saw nothing, We stared do the hill from there about 100 yards ,It roared at us. We jumped on an old tree ,still could not see it. So we one watched as the other went down about 100 ft. The the the other followed while our backs were watch, until we got to the truck and left. The largest gun we had was a 30-06 my 454, my son had a 30-30 and a 357 mag. After that I got some 338 win mags and hunted the 75 lbs deer with them. Remember, a gun shot to a Brown bear is a dinner bell.
i seen all the videos. no expert here, but it seems there are alot of so called experts on line. i suggest taking it all with a grain of salt. thanks for the videos
Hello Ron it's great looking at you videos all the time. What do you think about doing something on a forgotten cartridge 308 Norma mag.
Well Ron.. I wasn't interested in a 6mm-06 but I am now lol.. but lets take it a step farther. 6mm-06 Ackley Improved.
That'll be fast and furious.
They shoot three shot groups so the barrel doesn't get to hot
For the foreseeable future, the 308; 223; and 9mm will always be the easiest and cheapest ammunition to find for one reason. The major militaries of the world use these rounds. Ammunition manufacturers load for the military and, after those contracts are filled, they can switch to civilian loadings for little or no extra cost. The 45acp was once cheap and easy to find. Then the military went to the 9mm and the cost of 45acp ammunition went up.
If you don't want to be tied to these rounds look into reloading. It is not that hard to learn, it is not that dangerous so long as you are cautious, it is not that expensive if you don't get carried away with all the unnecessary extras., and it can be a lot of fun to work up loads that can turn your rifle or pistol into a nail driver!
If you're unsure, get a reloading manual/book such as Hornady or Sierra and read the sections before the loading data. Even if you decide against reloading you'll learn a lot of good information about ammunition and shooting. I got back into reloading a few years ago and currently, I'm reading Modern Reloading 2nd edition by Richard Lee which I am enjoying. I'm refreshing my memory and learning a lot of new information. I'm also enjoying the Breech lock hand press. It's cheap, it can used almost anywhere and it can be stored in a drawer or on a shelf.
The 35 Winchester center fire. Are you sure that is not the cartridge that was loaded into the 1895 winchester along with the 405? If I remember right, I believe it pushed a 250 gr bullet about 2200 fps.
Yes, I think that's the one.
I enjoy the content that you put out Ron, the keyboard warriors are always out for blood lol just tell them they ought to start their own show filled with only proper and correct information lol how many of them are creating content lol
I’ve traditionally used low profile rings. But since I started shooting suppressed, I had to change to medium rings, as the scope picked up some of the “can” (.30 cal can). If someone has a different solution, I’m all ears. Many thanks
Interesting. I only use low ring’s suppressed. 3 power is my lowest. I have seen a 1.5 power scope show the suppressor a little .
But even if you see some of the can, it doesn't interfere with your sight line, does it? I can see much of my barrels with some low-power scopes, but everything still shoots straight.
It does not affect my line of sight. It’s more irritating than anything. More so when I varmint hunt at night with a light.
About the 308, If you go to Midways Ammo page, there are 98x 308 dif makes cartridges available, 60x 6.5 Creed and 60 x223. Speaks for itself. If people think a 30-30 is a great cartridge, the 308 much better for whatever
I'm pretty confident lever guns are the only reason the 30-30 is still hangin around. Without those I can't imagine anyone really having a need/want for the cartridge outside of niche boutique stuff. Kinda like the .300 Savage.
@@cavalieroutdoors6036 If you only hunt in an area where your shots are under 150 yards, the 30-30 is fine. Leverguns are an American tradition and fun too. I know people who hunt in heavily wooded areas who don't really need more. You might be surprised at the number of people who have hunted for decades and never shot any game beyond 100 yards. I remember people bragging about their once in a lifetime 200 yard shot, for goodness sake.
With some of the modern ammo like Leverevolution, the 30-30 can be a 300 yard deer gun, if you want to practice.
Regarding powder consistency, what do you suppose would be the consistency of an 8lb keg someone has been loading from for, say, 15 years versus eight one pound kegs bought at the same time, same lot, used up and moving on to the next unopened container? Once a container is opened, it is necessarily exposed to moisture and oxygen and if you’re not burning through it like a benchrest competition shooter might, would the better bet be to just buy what you expect to use within a few years of opening the container? I know modern powders (even older powders) are pretty stable, they’re not eternal, surely.
I don't know the exact shelf life or consistency. I'm sure it varies depending on how often the canister is opened, humidity levels, storage temperatures, etc. But I've noticed no discernible decline in my 15 to 20-year old powders.
I usually use a short set of bipods and a sand bag on the back of the stock when shooting on a bench. Is this a good setup?
Yes, that setup can work quite well.
6:06 i agree
I think the "self loading" cartridge is the 351 winchester self loading.
Or the 35 Win. Self-Loading the preceded it. Or the larger 35 Winchester in the 1895 lever-action. That one's about like a 30-40 Krag necked up.
The 308 is my go-to for medium-sized game. I absolutely loved the series and this video as well. I think you really gave the caliber a good showing. I have several and every one of them likes a different load.
Hi Ron I have a question on the three vs five shot group. Can you expect a devaluation in your group after three to five or more shots do you barrel temps?
Yes, as barrels heat, they can change shot dispersion.
I still think you should have tested all the .308 rifles from a field position ( like standing off shooting sticks )
I would certainly do that were I thoroughly testing for best all-round hunting rifle for my tastes/style, but this review was just done to get basic knowledge about potential performance and introduce audience to 9 different rifles.
Kinda feels like a good Rocky movie. We all knew the .308 was the champ. It took a while to wear brother Ron down, but here we sit watching the .308 take the heavyweight champ belt home.
More like the welter-weight belt. Maybe middleweight.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors your fans love you, Ron. It must feel good. Even when they might not completely agree, they still respect you.
Nice flannel! What brand and where can a guy get them?
Been finding nice ones labeled Orvis at COSTCO and others at TJMax. Thanks to my wife. I'm not a shopper.
The whole, 'been doing it for 50 years', does not cut mustard. Everyone has a different golf swing. It is simply silly to take one gun and one ammo and call its combination better, for any reason. And,you know this well, Ron.
just amazing how many people really have no idea about shooting and or hunting, if they have to ask so many questions they should give up the sport... I'm 70 years old still hunt and fish . in the last 20 to 30 years gun knowledge has declined , they should stay with a (Daisy) B.B gun or maybe move up to a pellet, pour Ron has to deal with so many idiot's , Don't know how he does it.
So "Handloader" magazine tested 270 loads for the 30-06 this month, with different powders and bullets, and the best the 30-06 could do, only twice, was 0.550 inches. I have several .308 rifles, and they do 1/2 inch groups all the time, and if I do my part, they do 0.330 inches. So clearly, the .308 is more inherently accurate then the 30-06.
Sandra, you might be conflating rifle accuracy with cartridge accuracy. Did Handloader use one rifle for all their 30-06 accuracy tests? If so, regardless the ammo, if the rifle wasn't consistent, group accuracy wouldn't be stellar. In order to certify that all 308 Winchester rifles are inherently more accurate than all 30-06 rifles, you would have to start with launch platforms proven capable of sub-MOA precision, then create ammo for each with equal precision (consistent case dimensions, internal capacity, straighness, etc.) Additionally you'd have to load the same bullets in each for consistency. I suspect that what we are seeing with 308s is what I've often said -- because so many rifles chambered in 308 Win. are marketed as police or military "sniper" rifles or target rifles, they are built with extra care for precision shooting capabilities while the average 30-06, seen as a general purpose hunting rifle, aren't give equal care. Finally, because so many demand precision, accurate ammo/bullets for their 308s, factory ammo is more carefully tailored for precision shooting. And, if all this is true, then the end result is the same -- more rifles chambered 308 Win. and shooting factory ammo should shoot smaller groups than most rifles chambered 30-06. But that's not because the case/cartridge is magically, inherently "more accurate."
Probably, although when people buy a rifle, they only buy one. No one could buy 10 rifles, shoot 270 loads through each one, and then keep the most accurate.@@RonSpomerOutdoors
If you’re Shooting an inch off sticks then you certainly don’t need to do better.
I like 308 but 3006 is my choice. I really don’t understand why everyone wants to power down! 06 is just so much more. To me there is not enough difference in recoil for me .
Easy! That's why the military made this round. It's lighter, faster to load and follow-up shots. More accurate inside 600 yards. Cheaper to buy and reload too. Less recoil. It's just a better round period, IF you're within 600 yards. With the right ammo in 308, your 30.06 is RARELY an advantage, it might actually be a disadvantage for the reasons I mentioned. I could use your analogy and ask why your are powering down and not just using 300 win mag?
I've heard to not clean a rifle's barrel until loss of accuracy starts to occur. Is this a good idea, or a bad idea?
I think it's a smart idea unless the bore is in danger of rusting. Seems to me a coating of lead, gilding metal, or copper would protect steel to a degree. Excessive cleaning may contribute to barrel wear and does require more shots (fouling shots before rifle return to zero in most cases.) I put barrel cleaning under the maxim If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Next you can teach Von B how to shot and not take a lady’s deer lol 😂 your the man Ron
Ron has Joseph Von Benedict on the show. Its his brother Arom that you are referring to.
30-06 week 😊
I live in SE Georgia so I run a light oil patch down the bore as soon as I get done shooting to prevent corrosion since it's usually so humid here.
Am I potentially shifting my cold bore point of impact or ruining my accuracy?
I don't sight in with a cold bore, but I let my barrel cool every 5 shots.
Rifles vary, so it would be better to check for yourself. It would be fairly easy to check when you go to the range. Just note where the first shot went as opposed to the follow ups. After all, the first shot is usually the most important.
Here in the Pacific Northwest, I also run an oily patch followed by a single dry patch before hunting. I have seen rifles with large blue streaks in the barrels from oxidized copper fouling. At least with my few rifles, I am fortunate that the cold, oiled bore puts the bullets in the same group.
@@stevej2120 that's good 👍
@@jfess1911 I just went this evening, and got my hunting pistol sighted in at 25 with this method using my 35cal bore snake, the group was ok about 2" at 25 with one 3" flyer.
It's tedious to shoot, wipe, shoot, wipe, shoot, wipe, then walk to the target to check the 3 shot group while everything cools.
I might try it with my 30-06 tomorrow after work if it doesn't rain, days are just so short this time of year.
@@linkbond08 I have heard of hunters who just learn how much to compensate for follow-up shots if the shift is dramatic. Sometimes, the shift is small enough to ignore.
I agree it can be tedious. I envy those guys who have a range in their back yards and can easily do a few shots and come back the next day to repeat the process.