I used to see a psychiatrist, an old guy, and as I was sitting in his office one day, I started reading all the certificates he had hanging on the walls. One in particular really caught my eye. “Psychiatric Surgery”. I started to question that. He didn’t want to discuss it. The next time I came to see him, that particular certificate was gone. I thought that was interesting…
darn... true story friend? Ouch!!!!! you might have opened a wound. Diddo you know of singer legend of Quebec city, Alys Robitaille? Alias Alys Robi??? Brave woman... lived through hell of adjacent to loboto-manipulations of the cranium and brain typicasl of the era... cannot 'member which though
It’s true, I was trying to read the name of the “issuer” and I believe it was Dr. Freeman but I’m not 100% on that, it was a couple feet away from me on the wall, I would’ve had to stand up and look closely at it. But I didn’t, and next visit, it was gone from the wall. I’m 50 years old myself and this doctor was much older than me, definitely could have been from the 1950’s. Or 1960’s…
I used to work in a nursing home, and one of the residents on my unit had a lobotomy when he was a 19yo college freshman; he was depressed because his mother had died. His procedure must have been done by an absolute butcher; he was unable to speak and he had to hold his eyelid open in order to see. Essentially he was robbed of everything his life could have been.
In my early years (1980s) I worked on a “deinstitutionalisation team” where we moved patients out of psychiatric hospitals into community living. I particularly remember one 65 year old woman. She was institutionalised in the 1930s as “uncontrollable” and “morally degenerate” because at 15 she snuck out of her house to go to a party. There was absolutely nothing wrong with her (and many of the “patients” we encountered). She was deeply institutionalised. For example she had no idea how to butter bread or boil a kettle. We taught her basic life skills and she went on to live independently in her own home for the remainder of her life. She made so many new friends on the “outside” that when she died at a ripe old 95 her funeral was a “standing room only” affair. She died a virgin.
@@timflippance3040was it a happy ending? Her entire life was taken from her and there was only a small section at the end where she was able to be “free”. She was branded as a sexual deviant and a burden to her family until almost the end. I assume those mental scars never faded. I just don’t understand why you felt there’s a need to compare trauma. The example op gave is another shocking example of the horrific mental health system. It all ties together.
When I was a child in the late 60s and early 70s, my mother would speak in hushed, horrified tones about what happened at the nearest state mental hospitals. Transorbital lobotomies and shock treatments were some of those things and she told me to never tell anyone I was depressed or that might happen to me.
@@sillygo0oser I'm not sure that "empathy" is the right word. People can mean well and still do horrible things, out of what the doctors of that era seemed lacking in - humility. They played God, ignored ethical concerns and trampled personal boundaries, convinced that what they were doing was right, because they refused to think much about their own fallibility.
@@Astronomy_Videos Exactly. For all we know, most of those surgeons conducting the lobotomies really thought they were being helpful and caring. As time goes on, we'll find the same thing out about practices happening in this current age.
No hope in going to the past come to the loving savior today Seek his Holy Spirit in prayer today he can give you peace confort and guidance today Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus
I think of April Burrell every single time the history of psychiatry is discussed. She was catatonic, diagnosed with psychosis, and admitted to a psychiatric facility for 20 yrs when a psychiatrist finally did bloodwork. They found that she has lupus. Lupus was treated and she woke from the catatonic state. This was in 2000. Not ancient history. Breaks my heart to think about how many Aprils there have been, how many there are right now.
There are sadly multiple people in this situation and others that are in similar situations in our psychiatric led institutions. Having worked in this area for 8 years the stories I could tell are horrific.
what's really messed up is that the drugs used for OCD basically effect the same part of the brain that is manipulated in a lobotomy. Not that I'm advocating for lobotomies at all in any way, but arguably OCD drugs are just a chemical way to accomplish the same goal... and have just as many side effects. Pick your poison, I guess.
@Marlin123 There was a guy who tried to self end with a g* n. The bllt didn’t end up having the desired effect, but it did end up curing his ocd. There was a point in my life where that sounded very appealing. Luckily I ended up on an snri med that helped. It didn’t fix me, but it also didn’t destroy my brain. Anyway, to my fellow ocd survivors, keep going.
i have OCD Too,i Take Pills Every Day,But When Something Difficult Happens In My Life,I Need To Go See A Psychologist,I Just Think Sometimes In All Our Lives You Just Need To See Someone That Isn't A Family Member Or A Friend For A Different Approach,😺
My mom discovered while researching our family that we had a relative in the late 1800s who was ~12 and a "difficult child" in school, so the school had the cops pick him up from their house and sent him to pennhurst. He died there shortly after that. Just crazy to believe stuff like that happened.
Thats awful!! I live somewhat near Pennhurst, me, my friends, and all the kids around like to go there during Halloween because it's supposedly haunted by the patients who died there. But actually hearing about a real child, a person, who was there and died wrongfully is just so sad. When I go back there I'll definitely be thinking about your relative!
@@pippascode481 thank you, that's nice that you'll be thinking of him. Unfortunately I have relatives on both sides who went to, and ultimately died at, pennhurst. Apparently there are quite a few buried on the grounds, but in order to get the remains you have to prove you're a descendant. Of course a 12yo has no children, so my mom has hit a roadblock there.
That's so incredibly tragic, that poor boy. Pennhurst was a building of pure misery and suffering, truly evil. I hope one day your family can successfully retrieve his remains, he doesn't deserve to rest where he was torturedn none of the parients do, rest their souls.
The reason Howard Dully didn’t get sever injuries was because he got the lobotomy when he was 12. His brain and mainly his frontal cortex was far from being full developed. His brain was probably able to heal some of that damage much better than an adult could.
I was recently in jail after a mental health crisis, instead of taking me to the hospital, they threw me in an 8×10 or so windowless concrete cell with a thin rubber layer over the walls and floor with just a blanket to lay on. Bright lights were on all day every day and the guards outside constantly played loud music or watched loud movies. I only slept for short naps when my body basically gave out. I lost all sense of time and after a few days of no sleep tried to bash my head into the wall. Their response to that was to handcuff my arms and legs to a chair and put me back in that room for another day or so. I was in there a total of 6 days before they sent me to a psychiatric hospital. I was told by the hospital that that was standard practice and actual part of how guards are trained to handle anyone who says they're suicidal in jail. They wouldn't even let me use the phone until I got to the hospital. When you're mentally ill in this society you lose all your rights, and it's just accepted as normal.
this is why i never tell anyone about my negative SH type thoughts. i feel like i have to beat around the bush when talking to my therapist when i do, but i have meds and theyre working but im always afraid if it gets worse ill have nowhere to turn because this is how they treat us, which sucks and makes it that much harder to change, let alone get help.
@@autohmae Definitely not any state here in Australia as he'd be proclaimed the saviour of the world with his powers!!!! Same as in New Zealand or Canada - all far left woke sess pools.
Psychologist here. It's not true that most people who got lobotomies ended up in vegetative states. That would have been considered a botched lobotomy like the one performed on rosemary kennedy. Most lobotomies were "successful" in the sense of making a person docile, obedient, and very unintelligent. That's what made the procedure so appealing to the point where over 50,000 procedures were done in such a short time. Most lobotomies were done on young "unruly" women basically turning them into overgrown toddlers so their families or husbands could have complete control over them. But they could still do simple tasks like laundry and cleaning a house, which is what men at the time felt was the place of a woman.
@@kreskin0079 Oh yes I know. Just last year I had a friend of a friend approach me asking about my work. Then he asked if I could "hypnotize people" and when I said yes, he asked if he could pay me to hypnotize his wife to be less intelligent and more docile towards him and less argumentative. I told him it was possible with enough sessions but would be unethical unless she knew what was going on. Then he lost interest because this was obviously for him and not her.
Yeah, I have terrible ptsd from psych ward experiences and the worst thing is I feel like I can’t talk about it with a therapist because I am afraid of not getting taken seriously.
@@tomhanson4008I can't speak for all, but most therapists I've talked to have been very sympathetic to my traumatic hospital stays. One even agreed with me on several points that I was making.
My great uncle was lobotomized. He had anger issues and was a big farm boy in Maine, which his parents couldn’t control. After his ‘procedure’ he spent the rest of his life in a hospital, where he would go on unsupervised walks every day, until winter when he stepped on some thin ice, and couldn’t make his way back through the ice. They found scratch marks underneath the ice. My mom always thought he was just messed up. She would draw a picture for him and he would just look at her, then look away slowly. Brutal.
I had brain tumor surgery when I was 48, seven years ago. I had an incision from ear to ear, then my skin was pulled down so they could cut out all my forehead (in an oval shape). It was a 10 hour surgery and I had to relearn how to walk and had (still have) balance issues. It's been a tough recovery and I still need my walking stick and can't walk much at all. Grateful to have lived through it and that none of these "therapies" happened to me..😱
I hope the tumor is completely gone. Make sure you are doing mobility exercises in your daily downtime. This is similar to what happened with my dad and the mobility stretches made a huge difference.
I have had two small brain tumors removed over the years. For me microdosing psilocybin has greately improved my cognitive abilities to a point where I feel the best I ever have been.
Holy crap, Julie! I've never heard of an entire forehead being cut out like that. I thought they always go in from the top/sides/back because of how thick the forehead is. That is an amazing story and I'm glad you made it. Was the tumor cancerous or no?
Electroconvulsive therapy ruined my memory. I mean, yeah you can't be traumatized if you don't remember your traumas, but you also need to remember things like your friends names and who you are hanging out with - which I had to be frequently reminded of during the time I was having ECT.
You still don't remember them? Or AS THEY TOLD YOU, you will have temporary memory loss. Do you feel better, or are you now latching onto temporary memory loss to be depressed?
@@dakawans83 BRUH HAVE SOME DECENCYY a person was severely depressed to the point of needing electroconvulsive therapy and you're just here saying these things to them
This is sort of what the film Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind deals with. It's wonderful to be able to forget the pain but what else goes with it?
I’m so sorry that happened to you dude. I’m really hoping it wasn’t forced on you. I take meds and I can’t remember basic conversations or who I was hanging out with either.
I took care of an elderly woman who'd had a lobotomy. She'd also had other, more experimental brain surgery. Her story was so sad. She was basically a shell of a person.
@@jeaniehammond40 It really is sad. She was only 14 when she was institutionalized, and she stayed in health care facilities for her entire life. From what I was told, she got lobotomized when she was a teen. She horrifically even had a baby while in one of said institutions. It is hard to believe how recently this barbaric BS was happening.
I have Bipolar disorder 1. I live a good life. I run a regional train station alone, am in a long term relationship and have five beautiful children. I am lucky to live such a good life that I wouldn’t have been afforded decades ago. It horrifies me to consider what my life could have been in the past.
Five? That's crazy. Hope you still have time for yourself. But some people enjoy their kids selflessly so maybe you're one of these. Anyways, hope you're good.
It's worth checking out Change Your Diet, Change Your Mind: A Powerful Plan to Improve Mood, Overcome Anxiety, and Protect Memory for a Lifetime of Optimal Mental Health Book by Dr Georgia Ede Beyond that, psilocybin mushrooms. ✌️😉
Walter Freeman’s assistant in brain surgery, James W. Watts, straight up left him after a couple of procedures because of how scared he was of what happened to the patients’ conditions afterward. If that doesn’t speak to the horrors of the lobotomy, I don’t know what will.
That's not true. Together, they developed the Freeman-Watts technique for prefrontal lobotomy, and completed over 200 procedures between about 1936-1945. In 1945, Freeman adapted the procedure, moving to the periorbital method. This is the procedure that disturbed Watts, and led to his decision to sever ties with Dr. Freeman.
My great grandmother had one. She was always happy and completely in her own world and acted very childish and innocent. The last thing I remember ( I was 12) was a christmas where somebody bought her a pack of smokes. She smoked all of them during the party and thew up in the sink.
I mean, I've never had a lobotomy but I've smoked an entire pack of cigs while drinking at a party.. (not good, I know. Alcohol makes smokers smoke more for some reason)
@@StrangeScaryNewEngland Well, alcohol is a depressant, so it probably makes nicotine (a stimulant) less effective, thus needing to smoke more to get the same effect. And combining stimulants with depressants is really stressful for the body
My great aunt was lobotomized in the 50's in Northern Ontario on account of her depression. After the surgery she became the only depressed person for 1500km to have a strong southern drawl lol
I don't think Rosemary Kennedy was really mentally ill, until after the lobotomy. She just wasn't acting like her father wanted her to. Or at least that's what I always thought, but I could be wrong for sure.
I made a comment expressing the sentiment. A biographer of Rosemary Kennedy's actually bothered to look through her archived notebooks and she was mostly fine. She did better, academically, after she was transferred to a school with different teaching methods ('30s-'40s Montessori). She was a middle 1 of 8 siblings, statistically, one of them will be more willful than the rest!
The reason Rosemary was mental ill was because when she was being born the doctor was not in the Kennedy home. So the nurse held Rosemany in for something like 90min causing lack of oxygen to the brain causing permanent brain damage
Kudos for not lining up a Better Help sponsorship for this one! Edit: Just to clarify, it's not something I'd expect from Joe, but I feel like I see it often enough from other creators to mention my anxiety when he was winding up the Nebula read!
NGL I got to see a betterhelp therapist a couple times through a work program. I was thoroughly impressed with the treatment I got. Only reason I quit going was that I left that job.
@@Paperbatvgchampion there are good therapists on there for sure (I used to see one as well). The big issue is that the company was selling patient data.
As someone with a form of epilepsy, this is actually so scary to think about. Cause imagine this: if I lived in that time period, this would’ve probably be done to me.
Also Rosemary’s father made the decision to have this done unilaterally (including from her mother) and either told family & friends nothing, or that she had “been put into a facility.” Rose Kennedy herself admitted that she didn’t see her daughter for 20 years after the lobotomy, but it doesn’t seem likely that she could’ve done much even if she had warning
There wasn’t much she could do. Joe Sr (may that man rot in the lowest pit of Hell) was also a serial cheater (among other lovely personality traits and behaviors) and at one point, Rose actually left him, but was told by her father “you can only forgive once”. Thus she stayed but chose to look the other way. I think Rose either suspected or she figured out what her husband had done. However, since he wouldn’t tell anyone about where Rosemary was and clearly didn’t respect his wife, he kept his mouth shut. Rose (knowing her husband pretty well by this point) just did what she had always done, knowing it was a lost cause.
I mean, have you not had interactions with people online, where you would consider such to be a success and a positive contribution to "Life, The Universe and Everything"?
Same thing with "anti depressants". They literally have the side effects of possibly making someone more depressed, but also the side effects of feeling nothing at all any more. So that's considered an effective treatment. ADHD, just take a kid who hates being sat in school all day and wants to be doing something more interesting, and just destroy their energy levels by dampening them with drugs. Person thinks theres something wrong with their body, in certain cases it's considered valid treatment to make futile attempts to change their body to fit their beliefs. Psychology and medicine is still very much a joke in how they consider certain things to be a success or not.
@@ChrispyNut no because i'm not a psychopath and can understand that even if someone says some horrible stuff online, blocking them is an easy enough procedure that putting them into a vegetative state is unneeded, unwarranted and a completely nuts response to "mean words on screen"
“Why I have half a mind….” My wife’s grandmother had a lobotomy for an undefined mental issue, reportedly involving paranoid hallucinations. She was more or less functional, but very passive and almost non-existent conversationally
Which some men desired from their wives which is why so many "opinionated " women were victims of this procedure. I cannot imagine how much potential we've lost, loosing the life and light in their minds:(
my great grandfather was temporarily involuntarily committed in san francisco because he was becoming increasingly violent and having halucinaions (according to the hospital records ive found, dont know the whole story as my family never talked about it ever). turns out he was a druggist (what we call pharmaciss today), and unfortunately back in the ;ate 1800s there were zero safety procedures to keep guys like him safe from the chemicals and fumes involved in making pharmaceuticals and it was common for people in that profession to have mental issues
In the future there will be many documentaries made about the current day equivalents and their inevitably fallout... makes me sad, I wish we could learn from history, but we are doomed to forever repeat it...
I'm curious to see if, as we develop and better understand AI, we see computational parallels to mental illness, and if tackling those challenges might lead to better mental health solutions in humans.
This video made me think about just how screwed I would be if I were born only half a decade earlier, as an extremely emotional autistic person who also struggles with various other mental illnesses
Same! I'm disabled, as much as I love old values... how the people of the time treated non-fully able bodied people was just terrible! Lobotomies were done to even the mildest, this is truly wild. The 21st century has it's stupidity and bad decisions, but 70 years ago also had its fair share of problems. x.x
As an autistic woman who was fucked up enough to get picked out for examination... I feel this. I got misdiagnosed, and 0 help. I got fucked up a lot. And all I needed was psychoeducation and maybe medication. Unfortunately, I developed depression age 11. Beat it later in life somewhere in my 25ths. Unfortunately, it made my cognitive problems worse. The neglect, and depression have lasting effects worse than what I started with.
I learned about this because Axl Rose mentioned in an interview in the 1980s that he was “manic depressive” (now Bipolar 1) and lived in fear of doctors “jamming an ice pick into his eye.” So I looked that up. 😨😱😬 Nasty business. Very glad they stopped doing that. Especially now that I know I also have Bipolar disorder.
Nobody's bipolar, but my son is extreme ADHD, my wife has agoraphobia/hyperactive anxiety/occasional depression, my nephew is autistic and my half-brother is on the spectrum ("Asperger's" - can't hold a job, can't hold a relationship, barely graduated high school, is 26 but acts 18). It's a really big issue in my family. At least 1 or 2 of them would have been lobotomy candidates 😢
@@nenerosey From his wording and punctuation, he said nobody in his family is bipolar. As for Asperger's being "outdated" Yes, because using specific terminology for specific sets of issues became unfashionable. Using wide-open, non-specific terms makes it way easier for everyone to jump on the bandwagon and have an 'ism' to wash away responsibility for things like bad or lazy parenting.
The lobotomy van was lovingly referred to by Freeman and Watson as their ‘lobotomobile’, in which they’d travel around from state hospital to state hospital demonstrating the trans-orbital lobotomy to staff at each. Freeman became so overzealous that he’d have 10 patients lined up on gurneys, strapped down, and show how quickly each case could be performed, at times even performing macabre tricks like spinning around and doing one behind his back. Staff, including nurses in attendance, would run out of the operating theatre so they wouldn’t vomit in front of the other attendees. True story. As a RN myself, I’m shocked at how rudimentary the procedure was. Like, to perform nearly any procedure now, the provider needs to know exactly how many millimeters or centimeters are involved, likely done under radiology/imaging to ensure precision and safety… yet the lobotomy was done without any of that, with guidelines to just ‘tap’ through the posterior orbit to some approximate depth, then manipulate the leucotome X degrees to the left, then the right, etc… the lack of precision is among the most striking aspects to me- like completely reckless.
As the old meme goes ... Being an old-timey doctor would rule, just drunk as hell like “yeah u got ghosts in your blood, you should do cocaine about it”
I remember a story my grandmother told me about the doctor who delivered her. This was 1931, in a very small town. Apparently he was so drunk that when he delivered her, he didn’t know what day or time it was so her birthdate is wrong on her birth certificate. He was paid for his services with a sack of potatoes.
Medicine has always existed. Quackery has always existed. The "puritans" were highly fanatical and reshaped american medicine into total nonsense. Americans, and to a lesser exent westerners, have a tremendous affinity for 'quick fixes' that purport to be mechanistic in a clearly explainable way. Lobotomies were invented in the 50s, yet the earliest evidence of brain surgery is in skulls from tens of thousands of years ago.
Agreed, those “best of intentions” excluded the individual’s wellbeing, all consideration was for the “collective interests” of a highly authoritarian, conformist society. Irregardless of if there was or wasn’t a real medical issue (as plenty had nothing medically wrong with them), these treatments were never about improving the patient’s life, it was always about providing other people (the parents and/or a spouse) an “improved” version of the patient that can be properly controlled by other people. Conformity was so important they’d rather someone exist in a vegetive state in an asylum for the rest of their lives than be a fully realised individual who rejects societal norms. Women in particular who didn’t submit to their predetermined role in society were frequent victims of forced institutionalisation and/or lobotomies. Additionally, rather than trying to help someone genuinely suffering from a mental illness, all the sympathy went to the family and all treatment was about lessening the impact the mental illness and/or neurodivergence was having on them, not the individual suffering from it. Consequently, the wellbeing of the patient was sacrificed for the wellbeing of everyone else.
Yesterday's lobotomy is today's sex-change surgery. We're not doing lobotomies, but we're doing something just as destructive and irreversible. And, like lobotomies, a minority of the masses are brainwashed into believing it's a good thing.
agreed, it was difficult to listen to the types of what was essentially torture described, and believe that the people doing it had "the best intentions" in mind.
@@Mutantcy1992 Do you ever look at a painting and figure it created itself? Or buildings - that they just formed out of nothing, all on its own? Or that a computer just put itself together? No? Of course not. Something from nothing is silly. Creation begs for the explanation of a creator.
Being someone born in the mid 50’s I had never heard of such a thing as a Prefrontal Lobotomy in my life until my son and I went on a motorcycle ride south from around Pittsburgh Pennsylvania about 10 years ago to a now closed place called the Trans-Allegheny Lunatic Asylum in Weston, West Virginia. WOW, what an eye opening experience! It is now a National Historical Landmark and open for tours. Among many of the interesting parts of the building is the Lobotomy operating room where many lobotomies were performed and a lot of the original “tools” and equipment are still there to be viewed. Talk about being creeped out! There are also many other “treatment” rooms there, some of the ones you mentioned Joe. Among all the bizarre things they did there was something told to us by one of the tour guides. Back then a man that was tired of his wife could just drop her off at the front door, tell them that she was mentally ill, and never see her again.
I may have heard of a lobotomy, but did not really appreciate what it was until near the end of the 1982 biopic, Frances, about the life of actress Frances Farmer, played by Jessica Lange. Farmer was not mentally ill.
A Childhood friend of mine had an accident where he was thrown from his moped and hit his head in a telephone pole. He was in a coma for a few weeks and when he woke up he was NOT the same person we knew. hes doing fine now, but hes still not the same guy we knew early on. total personality change from a brain injury
Apparently I’m not the same and don’t even speak the same after several concussions and TBIs. I’ve had a shit ton of therapy and I’m somewhat “back”, but I’m a lot more introverted and a loaner now. At least that’s all I can tell. If you ask family and friends you’d probably get a different answer.
I remember watching a tv documentary on this whole thing once. Many lobotomies were performed on children who had no real issues but didn’t behave as their parents wanted. Often abusive parents or the children had undergone some trauma or upheaval. One man the interviewed had one done after his father remarried right after his mothers death and his step mother wanted a zombie child. They scanned his brain and found that he had damaged similar to that if someone after a major stroke or years of dementia. The lobotomy would have made any issues he had much worse.
My final semester in college, I had a full blown psychotic episode and bipolar mania and i have never been more grateful to live in modern times where i could go to the ER, voluntarily go to a mental health crisis center, and get medication. Like it was a relatively quick diagnosis and medication was available that evening. I spent about 4 days adjusting to the medicine in the treatment center and drove myself home that sunday. I wish everyone could have had the same care i recieved, the nurses and doctors were amazing and they helped me get back to being myself again. I cant imagine what would have happened if I lived in another time or place.
I began my career as a medical regulator in the late 1970s. Even then, many very reputable doctors thought of epilepsy as a mental illness. We had spent the prior 20 years closing all the long term mental hospitals, the same hospitals many are now demanding be reopened. Aside from better drugs, we really haven't progressed much. Last week I had the good fortune to talk to a highly respected clinical psychologist, who told me about advances in the last few years (which I'm really surprised Joe didn't mention). He described physical changes that occur in the brain as psychotic diseases progress, impairing cognitive abilities and worsening psychotic symptoms. With sophisticated testing they are beginning to detect psychoses in much younger patients, and institute therapies that slow or stop those brain changes.
Maybe Joe can get into some of that in a future episode. I didn't know about the continuing changes as a patient is psychotic for longer. I do remember that, as a teenager, parents could no longer institutionalize an uncooperative teen easily but it still happened. A psychology teacher in high school (70s) talked about it and made everyone write down the ACLU number to call if they were arrested and that seemed to be the next step. (You know, back when most of us could remember a dozen phone numbers.)
@@kitefan1 I hope Joe does do more on this. I retired two years ago. I was fairly expert at addressing substance use disorders in professionals, but I was never trained to deal with psychotic disorders. I recently stumbled across a TH-cam short from a woman called SchizoKitzo, and felt like my eyes were opened for the first time. My "broad" exposure to psychotic disorders was really incredibly limited, and I've learned more about people with psychoses just watching TH-cam videos in the last two months than I gained in my entire career. For the first time I view them as real people. I could have been much more competent if I'd had this experience 40 years ago. I've already talked to my old agency's investigators about training they might consider for them and agency lawyers.
I worked at a direct support worker during the pandemic in a group home of older individuals. My first day there I met a patient (let call him Sid, not his real name) who sat in a chair with a super hero T-shirt on. He was quiet, but very kind. He ended up contracting COVID just days after meeting him, and he was sent away to the hospital. At that time during the pandemic, only family members were allowed to visit. Sids family lived across the country, and he lived in that group home for decades apparently before I arrived. The staff had gotten very close to him, and one male staff took him under his wing and considered Sid practically family after working with him for over a decade. This was also the time during the pandemic where there was a shortage of ventilators, and those who refused care were taken off ventilation. Sid was terrified of hospitals, but no staff was allowed to stay with him. Sid refused care, and he ultimately passed a way from COVID. I learned after his passing why he was so afraid of hospitals, and also why he was in the group home. When Sid was a young man, for whatever reason I don’t know exactly, he was given a lobotomy. He lost his independence, his ability to carry a normal life, and ultimately robbed him of his life through the trauma created by the procedure itself. Sid lost his trust in the medical field, and any and all doctors. I think about Sid often, and how much love was in the words of my coworkers when they spoke about him. He loved comic books, and super heroes. Apparently he would be able to list every superhero he had ever came across in his life. He was deeply loved by the staff and residents alike. It was hard for some of residents to understand why Sid was gone, but others understood that he died. May he rest in peace.
The part that Ive always struggled with here, is especially after psychopharmacological treatments were available, how could he look at what the surgery did to people and still think "I'm helping". Did he really believe that? Did he care more about his reputation than the patients? Or was it that facing the number of lives he destroyed was too much?
it's important to note re: ancient understandings of the "soul" that for much of history, "soul" meant what we would term "mind." that's the origin of the word "psychology", the greek "psyche" meant "soul." in that way, the ancients did understand that you can be ill or deficient in "soul," just as you could be ill in body. only later did "soul" come to have some spiritual, metaphysical meaning (closer to the ancient concept of 'breath' or 'pneuma', I think?)
That's what midcenturies Germans were talking about when they said "blood" too. Not even joking, and most definitely not supporting that ideology, but it is a super common historical misunderstanding where people just assume that blood refers to genetics/people, but they were actually referring to the mind/soul of the German people. (Again: not supporting that ideology. I need to make that abundantly clear).
Hey! as someone who has undergone two rounds of ECT, let me tell you that stuff is no fun! A round has minimum 12 sessions. during each session you go into the hospital and they get you on a bed so they can put in an iv. after that you get rolled to either the waiting room/line or just into the OR. in there they put a bunch of electrodes all around your head. then they ask if you're ready and a nurse counts down from 10, usually you're out by 7. from there they run large amounts of electricity through your brain to destroy certain pathways and areas. this induces a very large seizure as well. after some time you wake up in a recovery room, which is usually as dimly lit as possible and in a super quiet part of the hospital. after several hours of recovery you get a juice box and maybe a snack. eventually you get to leave. in my case most of the time this meant going back to the psych ward until i was deemed safe enough to leave. then i would just be taken home by my parents. when they first started i went up to 3 times a week. once it was nearing the end and i was able to go home, it eventually was just once a week. my body has never fully recovered. i have a new fear of hospitals. and i'm pretty sure it didn't even solve the problems they were trying to fix. i was depressed and sewer slide ready both before and after the treatments, just learned to control my impulses due to constant therapy. and not my musculature system is super fucked and is gonna take years of PT to fix alongside some awful tremors and a bunch of new fears. hopefully this can be a warning to some of you who may have family in situations like i was in. dont chose the ECT if you're given the choice
How awful. I'm glad you are able to function somewhat and understand/express what's happening. Please, please be sure you've "covered all the bases" for any nutritional causes or treatments. Please look into gluten and dairy intolerance, possible exposure to toxins like mold or heavy metals (there are so many possibilities), and vitamin deficiencies, perhaps starting with D, magnesium, and B12. There are documentaries and educational videos about all of these topics on TH-cam. Don't just go on the first 1-2, but watch at least a dozen by different people with different approaches, until something starts to make sense. My personal belief is that since the brain is part of the body, we should assume it's a physical problem like every other illness or condition, rather than treat the brain as something special we can't quite understand. It's an organ, right? The chemical imbalance theory has never been proven (and in fact has probably been disproven in many ways), and the last thing I read or heard was that now they don't think it's about serotonin either. I couldn't remember where I saw that, so I did a quick search and anyone can do the same, but here's a snippet from a website called The Conversation. Someone could look up the article by its title. I have become passionate about knowing the truth about depression not only because I have it (moderately) and have been able to reverse it with things like B vitamins, vitamin D, magnesium, and a gluten-free diet, but because I've seen too many friends who go on medication and either aren't helped or are made worse. Please be your own advocate and become an expert on your own problems! Doctors don't really have time to keep up with the latest research, and they aren't trained in nutrition. I wish you ALL THE BEST!! ----------- Depression is probably not caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain - new study Published: July 20, 2022 1:12am EDT Updated: July 21, 2022 6:32am EDT For three decades, people have been deluged with information suggesting that depression is caused by a “chemical imbalance” in the brain - namely an imbalance of a brain chemical called serotonin. However, our latest research review shows that the evidence does not support it. Although first proposed in the 1960s, the serotonin theory of depression started to be widely promoted by the pharmaceutical industry in the 1990s in association with its efforts to market a new range of antidepressants, known as selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors or SSRIs. The idea was also endorsed by official institutions such as the American Psychiatric Association, which still tells the public that “differences in certain chemicals in the brain may contribute to symptoms of depression”. Countless doctors have repeated the message all over the world, in their private surgeries and in the media. People accepted what they were told. And many started taking antidepressants because they believed they had something wrong with their brain that required an antidepressant to put right. In the period of this marketing push, antidepressant use climbed dramatically, and they are now prescribed to one in six of the adult population in England, for example. For a long time, certain academics, including some leading psychiatrists, have suggested that there is no satisfactory evidence to support the idea that depression is a result of abnormally low or inactive serotonin. Others continue to endorse the theory. Until now, however, there has been no comprehensive review of the research on serotonin and depression that could enable firm conclusions either way. At first sight, the fact that SSRI-type antidepressants act on the serotonin system appears to support the serotonin theory of depression. SSRIs temporarily increase the availability of serotonin in the brain, but this does not necessarily imply that depression is caused by the opposite of this effect. There are other explanations for antidepressants’ effects. In fact, drug trials show that antidepressants are barely distinguishable from a placebo (dummy pill) when it comes to treating depression. Also, antidepressants appear to have a generalised emotion-numbing effect which may influence people’s moods, although we do not know how this effect is produced or much about it. (etc.)
I did 3 months of ECT twice a week. I had some brief hypomania after a couple sessions, but for the most part I came out feeling exactly the same, and seemingly no memory issues. I was so comfortable with the procedure that I started waving bye bye to the staff just b4 the anaesthesia put me out. I don't say this to discredit or downplay your experience, but rather point out that it's a very different experience for everyone and as far as I'm aware has the highest odds of recovery out of any other treatment for people with major depression and gives people who've tried therapy and medications a last resort that actually has a chance of helping them where nothing else would.
I almost had to do ECT bc no medication was treating my mental health well at all. luckily i finally found a combination that worked for me when I was around 20 so I didnt have to, but it was very close bc i feel like i had tried every medication on earth. it turns out the medication that works for me isnt allowed for people under 18!
FINALLY! The opening music doesnt scare all of the unprepared people, pets and several plants in my neighborhood. Give the guy who normalized the volume (or kicked off the process) a raise!
Trepination was used to relieve pressure from within the skull which was generally a symptom of swelling and excess fluid due to, say, cranial injuries and the like. This was a solution devised in the Neolithic era because people getting their brains bruised by big rocks or clubs hitting the skull and was kind of used for headaches in general since the actual reasoning for why it helped was not understood.
I’ll keep it concise, but Joe… you and your team. This community. It is a big positive part of my life. Has been for a long time. I’m grateful and better off because of y’all. Thank you for being here all these years
Early in my career in mental health, I worked in a "congregate care facility"--a mental health nursing home in basic English--and saw the results of this sickening procedure. It was about 20 years later and so these patients were in their 40s and up. Some just stared off into a non-existent distance; some slobbered and needed close care; some simply repeated numbers over and over. One was adept at dates, a savant I suppose, and his chart showed he didn't have or at least didn't share this skill before the lobotomy. Asked what day Christmas fell on in 1283, he took very little time in responding. Otherwise, he was a sad, lonely 50-year-old man. His mother had okayed the surgery because he was "getting out of control" when he was grounded, or limited in where and when he could go somewhere, or she demanded things of him such as doing jobs she usually did around the house. He was 15 years old.
This era gives me the chills. I remember seeing a documentary where they said door to door salesmen would offer them in the comfort of home if you had an unruly family member. And my mom squinted and said "if it's that easy im sure I could do it myself...." and then stared ominously at me 😒
@@nevergiveup5939 Q; Why are we here in this life.? A; Chemistry. Q; Why do we die.? A; Chemistry. Q; What happens to us after death.? Guess what...... A; Oh, it's chemistry. Again.
This is super fascinating to me, as I have had a traumatic brain injury, with 2 bleeds on my brain. I know how much my injury has changed my personality.
I always felt it was improper to attribute his behavioral changes to brain damage alone. I reckon anyone who has a meter of steel rod blasted through their skull would experience behavioral changes regardless of brain damage, shits traumatic. Left him disfigured and disabled, little more than a circus attraction. I'd be irritable too
9:37 Using head injuries received during the World Wars, doctors were able to "map out" which parts of the body were covered by specific regions (which got damaged) of the brain.
Cool fact, I have Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) and when I'm having a particularly hard day and my heart rate will not go down, it actually DOES help when I submerge my body in ice cold water.
My dad was a paranoid schizophrenic. He could be very violent. Fortunately he was diagnosed at a time when electro-shock therapy was the solution. Its effect on him was “interesting”. He was no longer violent as far as we could tell, but you could pick up an aura of extreme agitation when you talked to him.
We have a huge mental illness problem in this country today. In Tennessee, if you go to the ER with suicidal or mental concerns you can be locked in a room for several days. You stay there until space is available in a mental facility. This overwhelms a system that is already broken.
I am so so so grateful that your Segway at the end did not turn out to be an advertisement for a certain mental health counseling/personal data collecting website.
If I'd been born 30 years earlier I think I would have opted for the procedure. Not because I think it's humane, or in any way therapeutic. But simply because when my later diagnosis presented I would have done ANYTHING to get 'myself' back (whatever that meant), my parents would have too. They sold hope of a "cure". That is horrifying.
I've got ASD. Partner has ADHD. Both only diagnosed as adults. Both literally called "Ferral" in school (We're only 28...) among other things. Our 6yr old is ASD. Our 5yr old is ASD. And 3 is being closely monitored because he's definitely ADHD but too young to get officially diagnosed. My children were incredibly unsafe at school, to themselves and others. They're now home-ed so they can stay regulated properly, get tailored education etc. I know full well if we go back not so far, every single one of us would have been institutionalised before reaching double didgets. I almost was in my teens. Was told my son (Very bright, very capable when regulated. Just very aggressive and doesn't engage when overstimulated) might need residential care (Laughed at by professionals who saw him at home!). And this is now! He wouldn't have survived at any other point in history. It's terrifying. It will have me awake and crying some nights just thinking about how if we weren't lucky enough to have been born in a country seen as progressive, and in a time where we have more information, life could have been over so fast... Mental health history is the stuff of nightmares.
@@donovanchilton5817 first, none of your business. Second, disabled people have always been and always will be, there is no ethical way of getting rid of all disabilities and disorders. And we don't have to. People are perfectly capable of helping and taking care of each other. Passing on issues... Do you hear yourself? What do you propose we do?
If you think autism is an “issue” or that they have a worse life then you need to research autism. You have been misinformed. 1 in 52 births so you definitely know some who you don’t realize are autistic.
I have a son who is autistic and I think his dad is as well. I had a great great aunt who was eventually institutionalized. Census record ms suggest that she was likely autistic. I was horrified to learn that the hospital was known for sterilizing their patients so they could not have children and pass their “conditions” on. It made me cry thinking of what could have happened had my son been born in a different time.
14:42 PTSD is listed as one of the ailments that a lobotomy could cure, which piqued my curiosity, because I thought it was a more modern term. Indeed a quick browse of Wiki notes "Early in 1978, the diagnosis term "post-traumatic stress disorder" was first recommended in a working group...". Can anyone shed more light on when "PTSD" was first coined?
that poster has ADD on it too, which became a diagnoseable thing in 1980. I almost think it might be a subtle satirical reference, definitely from the after-lobotomy time.
The term "post-traumatic stress disorder" came into use in the 1970s, in large part due to the diagnoses of U.S. military veterans of the Vietnam War.[25] It was officially recognized by the American Psychiatric Association in 1980 in the third edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
So it seems like the poster shown is a spoof. But given the context in which it is shown, it's likely that whoever chose to include it, didn't realise that and took it at face value.
@@jonparsons6818Gender affirming surgeries literally save people’s lives (including those of my friends who have had gender affirming surgery). I implore you to learn from those who have had gender affirming surgeries about their experiences before going off about something you clearly don’t understand.
08:07 Something that might have been completely overlooked back then and also during the studies that directly followed this case is the impact of potential chronical pain the dude suffered after his acident. While a drastic change from being well mannered to highly irratable is undoubtly a consequence of the injury and the rewiring of the brain, erratic behavior and a loss of patience is an EXTREMELY common thing to be observed in patients with chronic pain (which does not have to be a lot of pain, even the slightest 'unease' in terms of a headache WILL cause changes in temper if they're permanent and I'm sure dude suffered A LOT of chronic pain after his accident.
That's for sure. I'm a lot more cynical and frustrated from permanent head pain. At the beginning I was on my bed wishing my organs would shut up because they were too loud. I have the joy of being surrounded by cars with stereos that threaten a window's integrity. My head just wanted to explode from the throbbing pain. It took months of exposure therapy to handle even the faintest of light. Years of just getting the pain low enough to function is why I can interact with the world again. It took years to come to terms with what I lost. I'm unable to focus on anything for very long. Basically, once I have a thought I'm distracted by something. It might be something I really enjoy, but I barely can stay focused. I get along with only a couple of people. It gets pretty lonely. People online are easier since I can take forever to respond to them.
I once googled if I could get a lobotomy once... My mental was in a very dark place and I didn't feel like the doctors were listening too me, I was having panic attacks at seemingly random moments and dry heaving in the mornings. I was in a constant state of anxiety for literal years, it's kinda sad that I even googled that kind of thing it goes to show how terrible we are at handling mental issues.
We're still largely in the dark ages of mental illness treatment. Talk therapy and its offshoots like DBT are the most precise and refined treatments we have. Different medicines help some people and not others, and the only way to tell if it will help, hurt or do nothing is to try. Like lobotomies, it's akin to hitting a broken machine with a hammer with very little understanding of how the machine works. Medicines are just a more gentle hammer that's more likely to help. Maybe one day we'll have scans that can tell just what's going wrong and where. Then we might stand a chance of correcting things reliably with medicine or surgery.
@@TheSalami General anxiety disorder combined with insomnia, obsessive compulsive disorder and the autism spectrum. I probably have some type of trauma but nothing diagnosed because too me the doctors are pointless... They couldn't help me with my anxiety so there's no way they'd help me with trauma. I've been doing better simply by trying to be excessively positive in my thinking and that has helped a lot; whenever that negative voice comes too my head I tell it to go screw itself and I tell myself something positive instead and this has helped a lot
I have anxiety, am doing much better now. But the first doctor I went to tried to send me to an eating disorder ward. Thank the Gods the nurse in charge of the ward listened to me and refused to take me.
I think you should know that I can hear a clock ticking in the background of the video. It's not super disturbing, but it's probably driving someone out there mad.
My uncle was diagnosed with a nervous breakdown in the late 1940s to early 1950s. The “cure” at that time was a lobotomy. The doctors told my grandparents to institutionalize him, my grandparents refused. He couldn’t speak words but mumbled. As he was in college to become and electrical engineer his days were spent drawing the things he’d been learning. He initially was put on Thorazine but after about 15 years my grandmother began giving him megadoses of vitamins and no medication. By the time he was in his 60s his brain began healing and he mowed the lawn and did chores. He even played tricks on my grandmother. He passed away on my birthday when he was 70.
There is a film about Frances Farmer called Frances played by Jessica Lange about a woman (she was an actress in the 30s/40s ) who was very abused by the system & lobotomized in the film iirc. And of course everyone knows One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest with Nicholson. Be glad we now have addiction counseling & rehab centers & outpatient treatment & patient advocacy. Mental Health Services are still abysmal but no one will stick an ice pick in your eye (hopefully) My grandmother had her spine damaged from Electro Shock Therapy. She lived with chronic pain & depression for years until she finally offed herself by drinking bleach & taking an entire bottle of aspirin.
I thought the myth of Rosemary Kennedy being intellectually disabled had long been dispelled by a biographer not too long ago. It was more likely that Rosemary was of AVERAGE intelligence among a family of hyper-intelligent people, thus deficient by comparison. Her archived notebooks show that her aptitudes weren't that far off, just not above average enough for expectations. It's my pet theory that she just wasn't self-repressive enough for her father's social image.
Bro stop a$s worshipping those billionaires. They're not rich because they're smart. They're smart because they can afford higher education. Also they're not above average level mathematics geniuses lmfao
@@samuelclemens6841 That's how that earlier generation regarded themselves. Again, I really need to find that one biography; Rosemary's mother was reported to have said that Rosemary "couldn't keep up" with the family dinner discussions. Obviously, I don't have a time machine to see if these dinner talks had intellectual rigor or if it was ivory tower nonsense. My interpretation is that Rosemary would have been the type more at ease talking about the latest celebrity gossip rather than commenting on sociopolitical issues.
She was also “difficult” (aka not a subservient young woman). I think that’s a huge factor as to why her parents decided to get her lobotomized, and why lobotomies were more prevalent in females instead of males.
the bath of surprise is interesting it reminds me of a more extreme version of what one of the therapists told us in outpatient about things you can do to stop a panic attack and one method was holding an ice cube in your hand, it kind of helps ground you in reality bc it makes you focus on your bodys physical sensations
Oh the note of the ice dunking: as someone with anxiety, stuff like this can help on a MUCH tamer level. Holding an ice cube in the palm of your hands, splashing cold water on your face, drinking ice cold water fast, that stuff can help. Hydrotherapy or whatever is definitely torture tho
I agree, but be careful drinking ice cold water too fast, the sudden intake of too much cold liquid can cause unconsciousness because it irritates the vagus nerve, it's quite common on hot days when people try to cool down too quickly
I was born in 1948. I remember people talking about lobotomies a lot when I was kid in the 50's. Even as a kid it seemed to me to be a very blunt instrument.
My grandmother helped perform lobotomy operations at Rusk State Hospital in Rusk, Texas. She rarely talked about this. My mother acted so awful when she was a child into adolescents, my grandmother talked about it to me and stated, "What could I do, put her into the state hospital all her life?" My mother is a Socipathic Narcissist. I don't communicate with her anymore. I just can't take all the drama and meanness.
19:35 omg i was listening to this as i was doing something else, and for 1 terrifying moment, I thought you were about to segway into a betterhelp sponsor 😂
Can you please do a video on schizophrenia? I recently lost my best friend by him taking his own life due to his schizophrenia driving him crazy, for lack of a better term, and I've been trying to understand it better ever since.
I have had drug induced schizophrenia due to meth I was hearing voices 24/7 n seeing stuff I was in this psychosis for 3 to 4 months lost all sense of reality was convinced my family was watching me all the time I heard my family voices 24/7 saying stuff like kill yours self your worthless we know your a junkie and just other really crazy shit one night i heard loud police sirens n sounded like a high speed chase this went on all night I had strong delusions they were watchinge through the Alexa speaker lol could hear them literally talk shit when I would sit in front of that stupid speaker i finally snapped almost threw myself off a bridge but ended up walking to state hospital was there 3 weeks it felt so real but it was all a delusions I was in my own world for those months it was like a nightmare that never stopped
I worked in an old Craftsman house or Victorian 20 some years ago. There was a hidden room in the attic space for what the owners were told held a "mongoloid" child. Humans are the worst. Thanks
When I was a baby the woman who raised me, a schizophrenic, caved my head in with a brick. The doctors at St Jude drilled a hole in my hairline to pull my caved in face off my brain. People try to accuse me of lobotomy when they notice my scar. I am relieved that the actual point of entry was the eye orbit and not the hairline. People are ignorant. It has to be something in the water to make them do this procedure. I was a psychology major. This whole discussion topic is barbaric to me but then again psychiatry is unproven science insurance shies away from covering.
I work at a Developmental Center right now, i could not imagine wanting to do this to one of my clients. I do deal with some that are violent, but their personalities other than those instances are great, even if they are non-verbal. Everyone has some form of personality, and this procedure either removed it or removed them. Had one of my guys (nonverbal) go off on me tonight, slapping, hitting and trying to bite me. Didn't once think less of him, just wondered what actually caused it. If only we could peer into their thought process...
I hate to wonder, did it really sound like cracking an egg? Also, the whole idea of mental illness coming from bacteria in the mouth result in people having all of their teeth ripped out... yeaaahhh
Both eggshells and the solid parts of human bones are made of calcium carbonate. So it might sound like crunchier than eggshells but not as crunchy as bones snapping (e.g. bones from chicken legs)
fews things are more maniacal and blood thirsty than well off eurocentrics lol. they were just making up excuses to torture people. none of them believed what they were saying about improving health. i think its funny we still have issues with professionals not understanding that correlation doesnt mean causation. like with what parts of our brain do what, when we really dont even know if the signals that go through our brain originate from our brain or our guts. modern science is showing they are nearly equal with body communication
As someone who was diagnosed with autism I'm glad I didn't get a lobotomy but I still suffered; I got diagnosed when I was 10 and then was subjected to ABA therapy when I was 12, every wednesday I had to meet with my psychologist, I went from being a happy child who most people got on with, I even had a girlfriend and it turned me into a paranoid anxious wreck. After that I ended up with anger issues and the solution to that was risperidone, these drugs are awful, don't try to say that it's humane. I ended up as a young teenager losing my sex drive and in the end I ended up completely isolated from that girl and my friends as well. As an adult I've struggled from drug and alcohol abuse because of it. Things today are still messed up.
@@vulcanfeline Kind of. I'm eccentric but most people generally like me, the therapy I had to endure back when I was a teenager was about hiding my personality from other people, it was drilled into me that people wouldn't like me if I didn't; in actual fact people did like me but after being subjected to ABA for about 5 years I was left a broken wreck and I have trust issues to this day because of it. I don't exactly know if therapy is better for people today but I know several autistic people my age and we all have scars from it.
@@metalcascade4634 from my autistic experience, masking like that doesn't work in the long term. tbh, idk what would work but that aba sounds horrible /hugz ps) i found a supportive community on a channel called "i have autism, now what"
My ex worked with the de-institutionalization of people committed for issues ranging from fairly severe developmental disabilities to pregnancy. Not kidding on that last one. And deafness. I met one of her clients, a then 30 something man who had spent a couple decades in an institution because he was hard of hearing.
The ice bath is still used in mental facilities today and is taught to patients to use in order to calm down. It slows down your heart rate enough so you can do another coping mechanism when distressed. (Taught this in 2022. Not exactly torture, and there is science behind it.)
@@Hirosjimma Which was an excellent reason for him to say it, and for the rest of us to spread it. Far better for you to briefly think of a horror, than for somebody to have to possibly live it. There are people out there who would bring these surgeries back, given a chance. If the rest of us are living in a cozy world of illusion, shielded from the horrors, who will be motivated enough to stop them?
So I have serious epilepsy that is only controlled by strong controlled substances and I am so very aware of how close I am to surgery being the solution. I do love how modern medicine likes to act like it's so much better than before, and I don't wanna spit at it... I am not disabled from my disability. But epilepsy treatment has never been "successful" in the sense that we don't have to learn how to live with major side effects. Even the medicines are really hard to deal with. My current meds took close to 2 years to be able to function again. Epilepsy has always been a game of "this horrible thing is better than the alternative". Learning how to function again on two controlled substances (one is a benzo) was hard hard. Brain surgery is no walk in the park even with modern medicine
Trephination, historically, was an effective treatment for brain injuries that cause pressure buildup. It has been done since before recorded history and has saved countless lives. It is actually the oldest known surgery. The recent european practices of trepanning and lobotomizing are not related to the historical practice, which you claim goes back seven thousand years, but is actually far older than that.
"which you claim goes back seven thousand years" no, he claimed that we've discovered skulls with trepanation holes that date back 7,000 years, which is true, the oldest archaeological evidence we have dates from 7-8000 years ago
@@notaname8140 Closer to 8,500 but it's more accurate to say "we have been removing pieces of the skull after severe head injuries to effectively address brain swelling for tens of thousands of years, and refined it to a point of surgically drilling a clean circular hole about 8-7,000 years ago."
Haha, just don’t put the 4 year old up for collateral if your van breaks down outside of Toledo and you miss your next gig. That’s funny you said that though, I’ve been trying for half the video to figure out if this a re-upload, or if it was another channel that had a similar video. Or possibly I’m crazy and it was all in my head, but as soon as I saw your comment I remembered writing the exact same quote. And now that I’m passed the the rose Kennedy part and into the ice pick lobotomies part, I’m certain it’s a re-upload. Joe’s video got age restricted and had to cut out some of the disturbing images or something. It must have got age restricted due to the level of gore.
His response to the part where he told us the surgeon would inject alcohol into the brain …”because you know…why not ?” Too funny! Excellent video…my kind of humor😁👏
I used to see a psychiatrist, an old guy, and as I was sitting in his office one day, I started reading all the certificates he had hanging on the walls. One in particular really caught my eye. “Psychiatric Surgery”. I started to question that. He didn’t want to discuss it. The next time I came to see him, that particular certificate was gone. I thought that was interesting…
bruuuhhh i would've shite my pants😭😂🫂
darn... true story friend? Ouch!!!!!
you might have opened a wound. Diddo you know of singer legend of Quebec city, Alys Robitaille?
Alias Alys Robi??? Brave woman... lived through hell of adjacent to loboto-manipulations of the cranium and brain typicasl of the era... cannot 'member which though
Was it gone, or did they perform Psychiatric Surgery on you and you lost the ability to perceive the certificate?? 😱
It’s true, I was trying to read the name of the “issuer” and I believe it was Dr. Freeman but I’m not 100% on that, it was a couple feet away from me on the wall, I would’ve had to stand up and look closely at it. But I didn’t, and next visit, it was gone from the wall. I’m 50 years old myself and this doctor was much older than me, definitely could have been from the 1950’s. Or 1960’s…
i need you to stare right into the red blinking section of this pen
I used to work in a nursing home, and one of the residents on my unit had a lobotomy when he was a 19yo college freshman; he was depressed because his mother had died. His procedure must have been done by an absolute butcher; he was unable to speak and he had to hold his eyelid open in order to see. Essentially he was robbed of everything his life could have been.
You cry at your mother’s death and you get lobotomised, you don’t cry at your mother’s death and you get executed
Heartbreaking 😢
Horrifying and criminal!
No. No no no no
That poor man, I hope he’s at peace now
In my early years (1980s) I worked on a “deinstitutionalisation team” where we moved patients out of psychiatric hospitals into community living. I particularly remember one 65 year old woman. She was institutionalised in the 1930s as “uncontrollable” and “morally degenerate” because at 15 she snuck out of her house to go to a party. There was absolutely nothing wrong with her (and many of the “patients” we encountered). She was deeply institutionalised. For example she had no idea how to butter bread or boil a kettle. We taught her basic life skills and she went on to live independently in her own home for the remainder of her life. She made so many new friends on the “outside” that when she died at a ripe old 95 her funeral was a “standing room only” affair. She died a virgin.
Well at least that story had a happy ending, unlike for those poor souls who were ruined by lobotomy.
there are so many instances of rape and molestation in institutions , that I have to be Negative Nancy and call bullshizzzz on "virginity"....
@@timflippance3040was it a happy ending? Her entire life was taken from her and there was only a small section at the end where she was able to be “free”. She was branded as a sexual deviant and a burden to her family until almost the end. I assume those mental scars never faded. I just don’t understand why you felt there’s a need to compare trauma. The example op gave is another shocking example of the horrific mental health system. It all ties together.
@@timflippance3040
Do you think they ' know'?
🙈🙊🙉
@@BlueBonnie764 No neither of them know, because dementia robs you of the necessary insight to realise that you have lost a lot of your mental powers
“Difficult for her family to manage,” got a lot of women locked away and tortured.
Nowadays they just put them under conservatorship like my twin sister. She's not even allowed to use the internet.
Today Karen's just abuse everyone en masse
Not much better possibly worse tbh
@@nuclearcatbaby1131nowadays they make them teachers 😆
Just watched finished watching a fine doc on here called “Finding Lillian”.
Lock them away for being an embarrassment.
When I was a child in the late 60s and early 70s, my mother would speak in hushed, horrified tones about what happened at the nearest state mental hospitals. Transorbital lobotomies and shock treatments were some of those things and she told me to never tell anyone I was depressed or that might happen to me.
Wow no wonder the older generations are so adverse to mental health treatment. Professionals back then jad no empathy for their patients 😢
@@sillygo0oser I'm not sure that "empathy" is the right word. People can mean well and still do horrible things, out of what the doctors of that era seemed lacking in - humility. They played God, ignored ethical concerns and trampled personal boundaries, convinced that what they were doing was right, because they refused to think much about their own fallibility.
@@Astronomy_Videos Exactly. For all we know, most of those surgeons conducting the lobotomies really thought they were being helpful and caring. As time goes on, we'll find the same thing out about practices happening in this current age.
No hope in going to the past come to the loving savior today
Seek his Holy Spirit in prayer today he can give you peace confort and guidance today
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Come to Jesus Christ today
Jesus Christ is only way to heaven
Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void
Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today
Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today
John 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Mark 1.15
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Jesus
This kinda makes sense as to why the older generation sees mental health as taboo
I think of April Burrell every single time the history of psychiatry is discussed. She was catatonic, diagnosed with psychosis, and admitted to a psychiatric facility for 20 yrs when a psychiatrist finally did bloodwork. They found that she has lupus. Lupus was treated and she woke from the catatonic state.
This was in 2000. Not ancient history. Breaks my heart to think about how many Aprils there have been, how many there are right now.
I remember her! I don’t remember the exact mechanism, but basically the lupus was causing her immune system to attack her brain. Just horrible. 😢
Also, see the movie Brain on Fire, with Chloe Grace Moretz and Carrie Anne Moss. How many suffered before understanding took hold?
There are sadly multiple people in this situation and others that are in similar situations in our psychiatric led institutions. Having worked in this area for 8 years the stories I could tell are horrific.
How could she have had lupus when it's never lupus?
@@DavidRYates-tk2tq Is that a House reference?
I have OCD. Seeing the graphic that recommended lobotomies as a cure for OCD made my blood run cold.
What's most terrifying about this is that OCD is so spiritually draining and stressful that people might actually volounteer to get a lobotomy
what's really messed up is that the drugs used for OCD basically effect the same part of the brain that is manipulated in a lobotomy. Not that I'm advocating for lobotomies at all in any way, but arguably OCD drugs are just a chemical way to accomplish the same goal... and have just as many side effects. Pick your poison, I guess.
@Marlin123 There was a guy who tried to self end with a g* n. The bllt didn’t end up having the desired effect, but it did end up curing his ocd. There was a point in my life where that sounded very appealing. Luckily I ended up on an snri med that helped. It didn’t fix me, but it also didn’t destroy my brain. Anyway, to my fellow ocd survivors, keep going.
Sorry for all the silly censorship TH-cam is garbage
i have OCD Too,i Take Pills Every Day,But When Something Difficult Happens In My Life,I Need To Go See A Psychologist,I Just Think Sometimes In All Our Lives You Just Need To See Someone That Isn't A Family Member Or A Friend For A Different Approach,😺
My mom discovered while researching our family that we had a relative in the late 1800s who was ~12 and a "difficult child" in school, so the school had the cops pick him up from their house and sent him to pennhurst. He died there shortly after that. Just crazy to believe stuff like that happened.
Thats awful!! I live somewhat near Pennhurst, me, my friends, and all the kids around like to go there during Halloween because it's supposedly haunted by the patients who died there. But actually hearing about a real child, a person, who was there and died wrongfully is just so sad. When I go back there I'll definitely be thinking about your relative!
@@pippascode481 thank you, that's nice that you'll be thinking of him. Unfortunately I have relatives on both sides who went to, and ultimately died at, pennhurst. Apparently there are quite a few buried on the grounds, but in order to get the remains you have to prove you're a descendant. Of course a 12yo has no children, so my mom has hit a roadblock there.
That's so incredibly tragic, that poor boy. Pennhurst was a building of pure misery and suffering, truly evil. I hope one day your family can successfully retrieve his remains, he doesn't deserve to rest where he was torturedn none of the parients do, rest their souls.
The reason Howard Dully didn’t get sever injuries was because he got the lobotomy when he was 12. His brain and mainly his frontal cortex was far from being full developed. His brain was probably able to heal some of that damage much better than an adult could.
VERY GOOD POINT!
Citation needed
True, but it changed him from being a thoughtful and sensitive boy into something much simpler and cruder.
That’s what I thought too…. So when his frontal lobe fully developed it essentially made up for the messed up nerves I guess
@@connorgoetjes6758 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Dully
I was recently in jail after a mental health crisis, instead of taking me to the hospital, they threw me in an 8×10 or so windowless concrete cell with a thin rubber layer over the walls and floor with just a blanket to lay on.
Bright lights were on all day every day and the guards outside constantly played loud music or watched loud movies. I only slept for short naps when my body basically gave out. I lost all sense of time and after a few days of no sleep tried to bash my head into the wall. Their response to that was to handcuff my arms and legs to a chair and put me back in that room for another day or so. I was in there a total of 6 days before they sent me to a psychiatric hospital.
I was told by the hospital that that was standard practice and actual part of how guards are trained to handle anyone who says they're suicidal in jail. They wouldn't even let me use the phone until I got to the hospital. When you're mentally ill in this society you lose all your rights, and it's just accepted as normal.
euh... which society would that be ? The US ?
@@autohmae varies state by state, I'd be surprised if this isn't describing Florida though.
this is why i never tell anyone about my negative SH type thoughts.
i feel like i have to beat around the bush when talking to my therapist when i do, but i have meds and theyre working but im always afraid if it gets worse ill have nowhere to turn because this is how they treat us, which sucks and makes it that much harder to change, let alone get help.
@@autohmae Definitely not any state here in Australia as he'd be proclaimed the saviour of the world with his powers!!!! Same as in New Zealand or Canada - all far left woke sess pools.
Ya I would like to hear "society's side of the story" of why u got put in there lol. I bet it would change everyone's opinion here
Psychologist here. It's not true that most people who got lobotomies ended up in vegetative states. That would have been considered a botched lobotomy like the one performed on rosemary kennedy. Most lobotomies were "successful" in the sense of making a person docile, obedient, and very unintelligent. That's what made the procedure so appealing to the point where over 50,000 procedures were done in such a short time. Most lobotomies were done on young "unruly" women basically turning them into overgrown toddlers so their families or husbands could have complete control over them. But they could still do simple tasks like laundry and cleaning a house, which is what men at the time felt was the place of a woman.
I mean, some men still want that kind of life. 😕
@@kreskin0079 Some women still want that kind of life
@@croutendo2050 to be lobotomized? Sign me up
@@kreskin0079 Oh yes I know. Just last year I had a friend of a friend approach me asking about my work. Then he asked if I could "hypnotize people" and when I said yes, he asked if he could pay me to hypnotize his wife to be less intelligent and more docile towards him and less argumentative. I told him it was possible with enough sessions but would be unethical unless she knew what was going on. Then he lost interest because this was obviously for him and not her.
@@ihmen that's awful. Wow
I have had horrific experiences in psych wards. To think that my experiences pale in comparison to the past is beyond disturbing.
Yeah, I have terrible ptsd from psych ward experiences and the worst thing is I feel like I can’t talk about it with a therapist because I am afraid of not getting taken seriously.
@@tomhanson4008I can't speak for all, but most therapists I've talked to have been very sympathetic to my traumatic hospital stays. One even agreed with me on several points that I was making.
For real.
@@tomhanson4008 Or worse, they’ll defend it and say it was for the best.
My great uncle was lobotomized. He had anger issues and was a big farm boy in Maine, which his parents couldn’t control. After his ‘procedure’ he spent the rest of his life in a hospital, where he would go on unsupervised walks every day, until winter when he stepped on some thin ice, and couldn’t make his way back through the ice. They found scratch marks underneath the ice. My mom always thought he was just messed up. She would draw a picture for him and he would just look at her, then look away slowly. Brutal.
what.
I had brain tumor surgery when I was 48, seven years ago. I had an incision from ear to ear, then my skin was pulled down so they could cut out all my forehead (in an oval shape). It was a 10 hour surgery and I had to relearn how to walk and had (still have) balance issues. It's been a tough recovery and I still need my walking stick and can't walk much at all. Grateful to have lived through it and that none of these "therapies" happened to me..😱
Oof. Good luck with your continued recovery!
I hope the tumor is completely gone. Make sure you are doing mobility exercises in your daily downtime. This is similar to what happened with my dad and the mobility stretches made a huge difference.
I too had a brain tumor removed in 2012 at St. Anthony’s hospital. I still have bad balance, as well as forgetfulness. Plus, they put implants in me 😢
I have had two small brain tumors removed over the years. For me microdosing psilocybin has greately improved my cognitive abilities to a point where I feel the best I ever have been.
Holy crap, Julie! I've never heard of an entire forehead being cut out like that. I thought they always go in from the top/sides/back because of how thick the forehead is. That is an amazing story and I'm glad you made it. Was the tumor cancerous or no?
Electroconvulsive therapy ruined my memory. I mean, yeah you can't be traumatized if you don't remember your traumas, but you also need to remember things like your friends names and who you are hanging out with - which I had to be frequently reminded of during the time I was having ECT.
I'm so sorry that happened ❤. My Dr considered it for me a long time ago. Thankfully he decided not to suggest it. Wishing you healing
You still don't remember them? Or AS THEY TOLD YOU, you will have temporary memory loss. Do you feel better, or are you now latching onto temporary memory loss to be depressed?
@@dakawans83 BRUH HAVE SOME DECENCYY a person was severely depressed to the point of needing electroconvulsive therapy and you're just here saying these things to them
This is sort of what the film Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind deals with. It's wonderful to be able to forget the pain but what else goes with it?
I’m so sorry that happened to you dude. I’m really hoping it wasn’t forced on you. I take meds and I can’t remember basic conversations or who I was hanging out with either.
I took care of an elderly woman who'd had a lobotomy. She'd also had other, more experimental brain surgery. Her story was so sad. She was basically a shell of a person.
So very sad, the medieval medicine then was barbaric.
@@jeaniehammond40 It really is sad. She was only 14 when she was institutionalized, and she stayed in health care facilities for her entire life. From what I was told, she got lobotomized when she was a teen. She horrifically even had a baby while in one of said institutions. It is hard to believe how recently this barbaric BS was happening.
@@anactualprayingmantis5054 that's messed up
Oh my, that’s awful! I pray for all victims of this awful procedure!
@jeaniehammond40 how exactly a procedure done in the 1950s medieval (time period between ~500-1500 AD)?
I have Bipolar disorder 1. I live a good life. I run a regional train station alone, am in a long term relationship and have five beautiful children. I am lucky to live such a good life that I wouldn’t have been afforded decades ago. It horrifies me to consider what my life could have been in the past.
Isn't it awesome what therapy and little magical pills can do these days? No more ice picks to the brain for us xD
Five? That's crazy. Hope you still have time for yourself. But some people enjoy their kids selflessly so maybe you're one of these. Anyways, hope you're good.
🦾🦾🦾
But what has it cost our society? So much.
So much.
It's worth checking out Change Your Diet, Change Your Mind: A Powerful Plan to Improve Mood, Overcome Anxiety, and Protect Memory for a Lifetime of Optimal Mental Health
Book by Dr Georgia Ede
Beyond that, psilocybin mushrooms. ✌️😉
Walter Freeman’s assistant in brain surgery, James W. Watts, straight up left him after a couple of procedures because of how scared he was of what happened to the patients’ conditions afterward. If that doesn’t speak to the horrors of the lobotomy, I don’t know what will.
That's not true. Together, they developed the Freeman-Watts technique for prefrontal lobotomy, and completed over 200 procedures between about 1936-1945. In 1945, Freeman adapted the procedure, moving to the periorbital method. This is the procedure that disturbed Watts, and led to his decision to sever ties with Dr. Freeman.
Is Walter Freeman related to Gordon Freeman?
@@venicalfebgaming73 explains why Gordon doesn’t talk
My great grandmother had one.
She was always happy and completely in her own world and acted very childish and innocent.
The last thing I remember ( I was 12) was a christmas where somebody bought her a pack of smokes.
She smoked all of them during the party and thew up in the sink.
Fascinating
You probably never knew her when she was a sensitive, caring, intelligent but troubled woman
@@mxRian4 Lmfao
I mean, I've never had a lobotomy but I've smoked an entire pack of cigs while drinking at a party.. (not good, I know. Alcohol makes smokers smoke more for some reason)
@@StrangeScaryNewEngland Well, alcohol is a depressant, so it probably makes nicotine (a stimulant) less effective, thus needing to smoke more to get the same effect. And combining stimulants with depressants is really stressful for the body
My great aunt was lobotomized in the 50's in Northern Ontario on account of her depression. After the surgery she became the only depressed person for 1500km to have a strong southern drawl lol
I don't think Rosemary Kennedy was really mentally ill, until after the lobotomy. She just wasn't acting like her father wanted her to. Or at least that's what I always thought, but I could be wrong for sure.
I made a comment expressing the sentiment. A biographer of Rosemary Kennedy's actually bothered to look through her archived notebooks and she was mostly fine. She did better, academically, after she was transferred to a school with different teaching methods ('30s-'40s Montessori). She was a middle 1 of 8 siblings, statistically, one of them will be more willful than the rest!
I've wondered that myself, too. Was she really ill or was she just inconveniently autonomous for a daughter?
The reason Rosemary was mental ill was because when she was being born the doctor was not in the Kennedy home. So the nurse held Rosemany in for something like 90min causing lack of oxygen to the brain causing permanent brain damage
She enjoyed life too much
I'm inclined to think she had bipolar disorder.
Kudos for not lining up a Better Help sponsorship for this one!
Edit: Just to clarify, it's not something I'd expect from Joe, but I feel like I see it often enough from other creators to mention my anxiety when he was winding up the Nebula read!
NGL I got to see a betterhelp therapist a couple times through a work program. I was thoroughly impressed with the treatment I got. Only reason I quit going was that I left that job.
I really thought that outro was going into a better help sponsor spot and was bracing myself
You funny
Yep, another one who was bracing for that.
@@Paperbatvgchampion there are good therapists on there for sure (I used to see one as well). The big issue is that the company was selling patient data.
As someone with a form of epilepsy, this is actually so scary to think about. Cause imagine this: if I lived in that time period, this would’ve probably be done to me.
And then some have the nerve to say conditions are invented. This is what happened to people who had conditions just 100 years ago.
Still do 😎
Also Rosemary’s father made the decision to have this done unilaterally (including from her mother) and either told family & friends nothing, or that she had “been put into a facility.” Rose Kennedy herself admitted that she didn’t see her daughter for 20 years after the lobotomy, but it doesn’t seem likely that she could’ve done much even if she had warning
There wasn’t much she could do.
Joe Sr (may that man rot in the lowest pit of Hell) was also a serial cheater (among other lovely personality traits and behaviors) and at one point, Rose actually left him, but was told by her father “you can only forgive once”. Thus she stayed but chose to look the other way.
I think Rose either suspected or she figured out what her husband had done. However, since he wouldn’t tell anyone about where Rosemary was and clearly didn’t respect his wife, he kept his mouth shut. Rose (knowing her husband pretty well by this point) just did what she had always done, knowing it was a lost cause.
Joe Kennedy was a monster. My family had first hand experience with him. It didn’t end well.
So the vegetative state of the patient was considered a success so they kept going???? HOLY........
I mean, have you not had interactions with people online, where you would consider such to be a success and a positive contribution to "Life, The Universe and Everything"?
Isn't that what modern psych meds are supposed to do?
Technically they "cured" the behaviour problems"
But its the same as saying a dead person has all its problems solved.
Same thing with "anti depressants". They literally have the side effects of possibly making someone more depressed, but also the side effects of feeling nothing at all any more. So that's considered an effective treatment.
ADHD, just take a kid who hates being sat in school all day and wants to be doing something more interesting, and just destroy their energy levels by dampening them with drugs.
Person thinks theres something wrong with their body, in certain cases it's considered valid treatment to make futile attempts to change their body to fit their beliefs.
Psychology and medicine is still very much a joke in how they consider certain things to be a success or not.
@@ChrispyNut no because i'm not a psychopath and can understand that even if someone says some horrible stuff online, blocking them is an easy enough procedure that putting them into a vegetative state is unneeded, unwarranted and a completely nuts response to "mean words on screen"
“Why I have half a mind….”
My wife’s grandmother had a lobotomy for an undefined mental issue, reportedly involving paranoid hallucinations. She was more or less functional, but very passive and almost non-existent conversationally
Which some men desired from their wives which is why so many "opinionated " women were victims of this procedure. I cannot imagine how much potential we've lost, loosing the life and light in their minds:(
@@margodphd So true
horse man
Bojack, obviously@@francisyankovic
@@nashnasheeta better to a bojack then a joseph
my great grandfather was temporarily involuntarily committed in san francisco because he was becoming increasingly violent and having halucinaions (according to the hospital records ive found, dont know the whole story as my family never talked about it ever). turns out he was a druggist (what we call pharmaciss today), and unfortunately back in the ;ate 1800s there were zero safety procedures to keep guys like him safe from the chemicals and fumes involved in making pharmaceuticals and it was common for people in that profession to have mental issues
According to the hospital 👹
Horrific and barbaric indeed, but I wonder in fifty years how many of the things we do now medically will be described in the same way.
Oh yes let's follow the science?
In the future there will be many documentaries made about the current day equivalents and their inevitably fallout... makes me sad, I wish we could learn from history, but we are doomed to forever repeat it...
Iud insertion sans pain relief springs to mind
We're not waiting 50 years. We're doing it now.
I'm curious to see if, as we develop and better understand AI, we see computational parallels to mental illness, and if tackling those challenges might lead to better mental health solutions in humans.
This video made me think about just how screwed I would be if I were born only half a decade earlier, as an extremely emotional autistic person who also struggles with various other mental illnesses
Same! I'm disabled, as much as I love old values... how the people of the time treated non-fully able bodied people was just terrible! Lobotomies were done to even the mildest, this is truly wild. The 21st century has it's stupidity and bad decisions, but 70 years ago also had its fair share of problems. x.x
Yes, you would have been reduced to a very simple, unimaginative and dull person.
Cool story bro
As an autistic woman who was fucked up enough to get picked out for examination... I feel this. I got misdiagnosed, and 0 help. I got fucked up a lot. And all I needed was psychoeducation and maybe medication. Unfortunately, I developed depression age 11. Beat it later in life somewhere in my 25ths. Unfortunately, it made my cognitive problems worse. The neglect, and depression have lasting effects worse than what I started with.
5 years wouldn't have made a difference, unless you're like 60 years old.
I learned about this because Axl Rose mentioned in an interview in the 1980s that he was “manic depressive” (now Bipolar 1) and lived in fear of doctors “jamming an ice pick into his eye.” So I looked that up. 😨😱😬 Nasty business. Very glad they stopped doing that. Especially now that I know I also have Bipolar disorder.
Yeah my mom is Bipolar 1, and I was always so terrified of what used to be done. Worse now, that I've been diagnosed with a personality disorder.
Nobody's bipolar, but my son is extreme ADHD, my wife has agoraphobia/hyperactive anxiety/occasional depression, my nephew is autistic and my half-brother is on the spectrum ("Asperger's" - can't hold a job, can't hold a relationship, barely graduated high school, is 26 but acts 18). It's a really big issue in my family. At least 1 or 2 of them would have been lobotomy candidates 😢
@@User31129 what do you mean nobody's bipolar?? also aspergers is an out dated term
@@nenerosey From his wording and punctuation, he said nobody in his family is bipolar.
As for Asperger's being "outdated" Yes, because using specific terminology for specific sets of issues became unfashionable. Using wide-open, non-specific terms makes it way easier for everyone to jump on the bandwagon and have an 'ism' to wash away responsibility for things like bad or lazy parenting.
Ice picks may have been replaced with chemical lobotomies
I'm convinced the most insane person involved in this was Freeman himself. He was just smart enough to turn his insanity into a "medical procedure".
Yes . . .
Agreed 1000%...All shrinks are fucking nuts 🤪
The lobotomy van was lovingly referred to by Freeman and Watson as their ‘lobotomobile’, in which they’d travel around from state hospital to state hospital demonstrating the trans-orbital lobotomy to staff at each. Freeman became so overzealous that he’d have 10 patients lined up on gurneys, strapped down, and show how quickly each case could be performed, at times even performing macabre tricks like spinning around and doing one behind his back. Staff, including nurses in attendance, would run out of the operating theatre so they wouldn’t vomit in front of the other attendees. True story.
As a RN myself, I’m shocked at how rudimentary the procedure was. Like, to perform nearly any procedure now, the provider needs to know exactly how many millimeters or centimeters are involved, likely done under radiology/imaging to ensure precision and safety… yet the lobotomy was done without any of that, with guidelines to just ‘tap’ through the posterior orbit to some approximate depth, then manipulate the leucotome X degrees to the left, then the right, etc… the lack of precision is among the most striking aspects to me- like completely reckless.
Now tell us the history of the trans cult.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 ?????
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 tf that got to do with anything????
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017the wat??
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 Me when I am a normal person and not at all weirdly obsessed with weird bigotry
As the old meme goes ...
Being an old-timey doctor would rule, just drunk as hell like “yeah u got ghosts in your blood, you should do cocaine about it”
Laughed so hard when I read "Ghosts in your blood" 🤣 😭 I have to remember this!
I remember a story my grandmother told me about the doctor who delivered her. This was 1931, in a very small town. Apparently he was so drunk that when he delivered her, he didn’t know what day or time it was so her birthdate is wrong on her birth certificate. He was paid for his services with a sack of potatoes.
Can I smoke rocks instead? I learned how to make them in my late teenage years 😁
Medicine has always existed. Quackery has always existed. The "puritans" were highly fanatical and reshaped american medicine into total nonsense. Americans, and to a lesser exent westerners, have a tremendous affinity for 'quick fixes' that purport to be mechanistic in a clearly explainable way. Lobotomies were invented in the 50s, yet the earliest evidence of brain surgery is in skulls from tens of thousands of years ago.
@@sarahhunter2855Or as they called them back then a sack a taters.
7:14 I would argue that "best of intentions" is code for "need to be controlled," and that we're still doing it.
Its kinda like the phrase bless there heart ❤😂
Agreed, those “best of intentions” excluded the individual’s wellbeing, all consideration was for the “collective interests” of a highly authoritarian, conformist society.
Irregardless of if there was or wasn’t a real medical issue (as plenty had nothing medically wrong with them), these treatments were never about improving the patient’s life, it was always about providing other people (the parents and/or a spouse) an “improved” version of the patient that can be properly controlled by other people.
Conformity was so important they’d rather someone exist in a vegetive state in an asylum for the rest of their lives than be a fully realised individual who rejects societal norms. Women in particular who didn’t submit to their predetermined role in society were frequent victims of forced institutionalisation and/or lobotomies.
Additionally, rather than trying to help someone genuinely suffering from a mental illness, all the sympathy went to the family and all treatment was about lessening the impact the mental illness and/or neurodivergence was having on them, not the individual suffering from it. Consequently, the wellbeing of the patient was sacrificed for the wellbeing of everyone else.
Yesterday's lobotomy is today's sex-change surgery. We're not doing lobotomies, but we're doing something just as destructive and irreversible. And, like lobotomies, a minority of the masses are brainwashed into believing it's a good thing.
Yes these were, and are experiments
agreed, it was difficult to listen to the types of what was essentially torture described, and believe that the people doing it had "the best intentions" in mind.
It may be better than in the past, but the mental health industry is still crazy.
Yes . . .
It's literally like going into the source code and randomly deleting lines and blocks of code.
nah mate it's worse, it's taking out bits of hardware too.
Figuratively*
God created the codes
@@standalone2012 no
@@Mutantcy1992 Do you ever look at a painting and figure it created itself? Or buildings - that they just formed out of nothing, all on its own? Or that a computer just put itself together? No? Of course not. Something from nothing is silly. Creation begs for the explanation of a creator.
Being someone born in the mid 50’s I had never heard of such a thing as a Prefrontal Lobotomy in my life until my son and I went on a motorcycle ride south from around Pittsburgh Pennsylvania about 10 years ago to a now closed place called the Trans-Allegheny Lunatic Asylum in Weston, West Virginia. WOW, what an eye opening experience! It is now a National Historical Landmark and open for tours. Among many of the interesting parts of the building is the Lobotomy operating room where many lobotomies were performed and a lot of the original “tools” and equipment are still there to be viewed. Talk about being creeped out!
There are also many other “treatment” rooms there, some of the ones you mentioned Joe.
Among all the bizarre things they did there was something told to us by one of the tour guides. Back then a man that was tired of his wife could just drop her off at the front door, tell them that she was mentally ill, and never see her again.
I may have heard of a lobotomy, but did not really appreciate what it was until near the end of the 1982 biopic, Frances, about the life of actress Frances Farmer, played by Jessica Lange. Farmer was not mentally ill.
Craziest part of this story is you have neither a motorcycle or a son. 😮
A Childhood friend of mine had an accident where he was thrown from his moped and hit his head in a telephone pole. He was in a coma for a few weeks and when he woke up he was NOT the same person we knew. hes doing fine now, but hes still not the same guy we knew early on. total personality change from a brain injury
Apparently I’m not the same and don’t even speak the same after several concussions and TBIs. I’ve had a shit ton of therapy and I’m somewhat “back”, but I’m a lot more introverted and a loaner now. At least that’s all I can tell. If you ask family and friends you’d probably get a different answer.
@@scoliosys8311try shrooms. Seriously. Look into it for TBI.
@@scoliosys8311 Being a loaner should not cause any problems as long as the others give it back reliably.
I remember watching a tv documentary on this whole thing once. Many lobotomies were performed on children who had no real issues but didn’t behave as their parents wanted. Often abusive parents or the children had undergone some trauma or upheaval.
One man the interviewed had one done after his father remarried right after his mothers death and his step mother wanted a zombie child.
They scanned his brain and found that he had damaged similar to that if someone after a major stroke or years of dementia.
The lobotomy would have made any issues he had much worse.
My final semester in college, I had a full blown psychotic episode and bipolar mania and i have never been more grateful to live in modern times where i could go to the ER, voluntarily go to a mental health crisis center, and get medication. Like it was a relatively quick diagnosis and medication was available that evening. I spent about 4 days adjusting to the medicine in the treatment center and drove myself home that sunday. I wish everyone could have had the same care i recieved, the nurses and doctors were amazing and they helped me get back to being myself again. I cant imagine what would have happened if I lived in another time or place.
The title was a lot less disturbing when I thought it said ice PACK
lmao, you got me. I laughed out loud when I read this hhahha
same lmfaooo
I thought that too-until I saw your comment 😭
Why are we here in this life? Why do we die? What will happen to us after death??
@@nevergiveup5939 I'm so thankful to know all these answers. ☺
I began my career as a medical regulator in the late 1970s. Even then, many very reputable doctors thought of epilepsy as a mental illness. We had spent the prior 20 years closing all the long term mental hospitals, the same hospitals many are now demanding be reopened. Aside from better drugs, we really haven't progressed much. Last week I had the good fortune to talk to a highly respected clinical psychologist, who told me about advances in the last few years (which I'm really surprised Joe didn't mention). He described physical changes that occur in the brain as psychotic diseases progress, impairing cognitive abilities and worsening psychotic symptoms. With sophisticated testing they are beginning to detect psychoses in much younger patients, and institute therapies that slow or stop those brain changes.
Tailor made babies.
There is so much more to say. Surprized this vid didn't go for 2 hours?
Maybe Joe can get into some of that in a future episode. I didn't know about the continuing changes as a patient is psychotic for longer. I do remember that, as a teenager, parents could no longer institutionalize an uncooperative teen easily but it still happened. A psychology teacher in high school (70s) talked about it and made everyone write down the ACLU number to call if they were arrested and that seemed to be the next step. (You know, back when most of us could remember a dozen phone numbers.)
@@silentm999 A lot of homeless and street people.
@@kitefan1 I hope Joe does do more on this. I retired two years ago. I was fairly expert at addressing substance use disorders in professionals, but I was never trained to deal with psychotic disorders. I recently stumbled across a TH-cam short from a woman called SchizoKitzo, and felt like my eyes were opened for the first time. My "broad" exposure to psychotic disorders was really incredibly limited, and I've learned more about people with psychoses just watching TH-cam videos in the last two months than I gained in my entire career. For the first time I view them as real people. I could have been much more competent if I'd had this experience 40 years ago. I've already talked to my old agency's investigators about training they might consider for them and agency lawyers.
I worked at a direct support worker during the pandemic in a group home of older individuals. My first day there I met a patient (let call him Sid, not his real name) who sat in a chair with a super hero T-shirt on. He was quiet, but very kind. He ended up contracting COVID just days after meeting him, and he was sent away to the hospital. At that time during the pandemic, only family members were allowed to visit. Sids family lived across the country, and he lived in that group home for decades apparently before I arrived. The staff had gotten very close to him, and one male staff took him under his wing and considered Sid practically family after working with him for over a decade. This was also the time during the pandemic where there was a shortage of ventilators, and those who refused care were taken off ventilation. Sid was terrified of hospitals, but no staff was allowed to stay with him. Sid refused care, and he ultimately passed a way from COVID. I learned after his passing why he was so afraid of hospitals, and also why he was in the group home. When Sid was a young man, for whatever reason I don’t know exactly, he was given a lobotomy. He lost his independence, his ability to carry a normal life, and ultimately robbed him of his life through the trauma created by the procedure itself. Sid lost his trust in the medical field, and any and all doctors. I think about Sid often, and how much love was in the words of my coworkers when they spoke about him. He loved comic books, and super heroes. Apparently he would be able to list every superhero he had ever came across in his life. He was deeply loved by the staff and residents alike. It was hard for some of residents to understand why Sid was gone, but others understood that he died. May he rest in peace.
The part that Ive always struggled with here, is especially after psychopharmacological treatments were available, how could he look at what the surgery did to people and still think "I'm helping".
Did he really believe that? Did he care more about his reputation than the patients? Or was it that facing the number of lives he destroyed was too much?
it's important to note re: ancient understandings of the "soul" that for much of history, "soul" meant what we would term "mind." that's the origin of the word "psychology", the greek "psyche" meant "soul." in that way, the ancients did understand that you can be ill or deficient in "soul," just as you could be ill in body. only later did "soul" come to have some spiritual, metaphysical meaning (closer to the ancient concept of 'breath' or 'pneuma', I think?)
That's what midcenturies Germans were talking about when they said "blood" too. Not even joking, and most definitely not supporting that ideology, but it is a super common historical misunderstanding where people just assume that blood refers to genetics/people, but they were actually referring to the mind/soul of the German people. (Again: not supporting that ideology. I need to make that abundantly clear).
Hey! as someone who has undergone two rounds of ECT, let me tell you that stuff is no fun! A round has minimum 12 sessions. during each session you go into the hospital and they get you on a bed so they can put in an iv. after that you get rolled to either the waiting room/line or just into the OR. in there they put a bunch of electrodes all around your head. then they ask if you're ready and a nurse counts down from 10, usually you're out by 7. from there they run large amounts of electricity through your brain to destroy certain pathways and areas. this induces a very large seizure as well. after some time you wake up in a recovery room, which is usually as dimly lit as possible and in a super quiet part of the hospital. after several hours of recovery you get a juice box and maybe a snack. eventually you get to leave. in my case most of the time this meant going back to the psych ward until i was deemed safe enough to leave. then i would just be taken home by my parents. when they first started i went up to 3 times a week. once it was nearing the end and i was able to go home, it eventually was just once a week. my body has never fully recovered. i have a new fear of hospitals. and i'm pretty sure it didn't even solve the problems they were trying to fix. i was depressed and sewer slide ready both before and after the treatments, just learned to control my impulses due to constant therapy. and not my musculature system is super fucked and is gonna take years of PT to fix alongside some awful tremors and a bunch of new fears. hopefully this can be a warning to some of you who may have family in situations like i was in. dont chose the ECT if you're given the choice
I'm so sorry you've gone through that.
How awful. I'm glad you are able to function somewhat and understand/express what's happening. Please, please be sure you've "covered all the bases" for any nutritional causes or treatments. Please look into gluten and dairy intolerance, possible exposure to toxins like mold or heavy metals (there are so many possibilities), and vitamin deficiencies, perhaps starting with D, magnesium, and B12. There are documentaries and educational videos about all of these topics on TH-cam. Don't just go on the first 1-2, but watch at least a dozen by different people with different approaches, until something starts to make sense. My personal belief is that since the brain is part of the body, we should assume it's a physical problem like every other illness or condition, rather than treat the brain as something special we can't quite understand. It's an organ, right? The chemical imbalance theory has never been proven (and in fact has probably been disproven in many ways), and the last thing I read or heard was that now they don't think it's about serotonin either.
I couldn't remember where I saw that, so I did a quick search and anyone can do the same, but here's a snippet from a website called The Conversation. Someone could look up the article by its title. I have become passionate about knowing the truth about depression not only because I have it (moderately) and have been able to reverse it with things like B vitamins, vitamin D, magnesium, and a gluten-free diet, but because I've seen too many friends who go on medication and either aren't helped or are made worse. Please be your own advocate and become an expert on your own problems! Doctors don't really have time to keep up with the latest research, and they aren't trained in nutrition. I wish you ALL THE BEST!!
-----------
Depression is probably not caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain - new study
Published: July 20, 2022 1:12am EDT Updated: July 21, 2022 6:32am EDT
For three decades, people have been deluged with information suggesting that depression is caused by a “chemical imbalance” in the brain - namely an imbalance of a brain chemical called serotonin. However, our latest research review shows that the evidence does not support it.
Although first proposed in the 1960s, the serotonin theory of depression started to be widely promoted by the pharmaceutical industry in the 1990s in association with its efforts to market a new range of antidepressants, known as selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors or SSRIs. The idea was also endorsed by official institutions such as the American Psychiatric Association, which still tells the public that “differences in certain chemicals in the brain may contribute to symptoms of depression”.
Countless doctors have repeated the message all over the world, in their private surgeries and in the media. People accepted what they were told. And many started taking antidepressants because they believed they had something wrong with their brain that required an antidepressant to put right. In the period of this marketing push, antidepressant use climbed dramatically, and they are now prescribed to one in six of the adult population in England, for example.
For a long time, certain academics, including some leading psychiatrists, have suggested that there is no satisfactory evidence to support the idea that depression is a result of abnormally low or inactive serotonin. Others continue to endorse the theory. Until now, however, there has been no comprehensive review of the research on serotonin and depression that could enable firm conclusions either way.
At first sight, the fact that SSRI-type antidepressants act on the serotonin system appears to support the serotonin theory of depression. SSRIs temporarily increase the availability of serotonin in the brain, but this does not necessarily imply that depression is caused by the opposite of this effect.
There are other explanations for antidepressants’ effects. In fact, drug trials show that antidepressants are barely distinguishable from a placebo (dummy pill) when it comes to treating depression. Also, antidepressants appear to have a generalised emotion-numbing effect which may influence people’s moods, although we do not know how this effect is produced or much about it.
(etc.)
I did 3 months of ECT twice a week. I had some brief hypomania after a couple sessions, but for the most part I came out feeling exactly the same, and seemingly no memory issues. I was so comfortable with the procedure that I started waving bye bye to the staff just b4 the anaesthesia put me out. I don't say this to discredit or downplay your experience, but rather point out that it's a very different experience for everyone and as far as I'm aware has the highest odds of recovery out of any other treatment for people with major depression and gives people who've tried therapy and medications a last resort that actually has a chance of helping them where nothing else would.
We have proper terms for "sewer slide" like "wanting to end it all."
I almost had to do ECT bc no medication was treating my mental health well at all. luckily i finally found a combination that worked for me when I was around 20 so I didnt have to, but it was very close bc i feel like i had tried every medication on earth. it turns out the medication that works for me isnt allowed for people under 18!
FINALLY! The opening music doesnt scare all of the unprepared people, pets and several plants in my neighborhood. Give the guy who normalized the volume (or kicked off the process) a raise!
People would also visit these early asylums as a type of human freak show/zoo. They paid admittance for a tour, to gawk at the ‘depravity’ 😢
All in the name of science. SICK
Trepination was used to relieve pressure from within the skull which was generally a symptom of swelling and excess fluid due to, say, cranial injuries and the like. This was a solution devised in the Neolithic era because people getting their brains bruised by big rocks or clubs hitting the skull and was kind of used for headaches in general since the actual reasoning for why it helped was not understood.
I’ll keep it concise, but Joe… you and your team. This community. It is a big positive part of my life. Has been for a long time. I’m grateful and better off because of y’all. Thank you for being here all these years
That means a lot, thank you!
0:29 I'm sorry, a WHAT VAN
????
@@chewycooking9013it's a misspelled timestamp it's 1:29
@@stevensteph3153Ur the goat, thx
Early in my career in mental health, I worked in a "congregate care facility"--a mental health nursing home in basic English--and saw the results of this sickening procedure. It was about 20 years later and so these patients were in their 40s and up. Some just stared off into a non-existent distance; some slobbered and needed close care; some simply repeated numbers over and over. One was adept at dates, a savant I suppose, and his chart showed he didn't have or at least didn't share this skill before the lobotomy. Asked what day Christmas fell on in 1283, he took very little time in responding. Otherwise, he was a sad, lonely 50-year-old man.
His mother had okayed the surgery because he was "getting out of control" when he was grounded, or limited in where and when he could go somewhere, or she demanded things of him such as doing jobs she usually did around the house. He was 15 years old.
Wow 😮
This era gives me the chills. I remember seeing a documentary where they said door to door salesmen would offer them in the comfort of home if you had an unruly family member. And my mom squinted and said "if it's that easy im sure I could do it myself...." and then stared ominously at me 😒
Why are we here in this life? Why do we die? What will happen to us after death??
@@nevergiveup5939 your mom
@@nevergiveup5939
Q; Why are we here in this life.?
A; Chemistry.
Q; Why do we die.?
A; Chemistry.
Q; What happens to us after death.? Guess what......
A; Oh, it's chemistry. Again.
@@AnOldeSpartan lol
@@nevergiveup5939 no really... chemistry
This is super fascinating to me, as I have had a traumatic brain injury, with 2 bleeds on my brain. I know how much my injury has changed my personality.
On a 12 year old? There’s no way a 12 year-old can make decisions about permanent changes to their body, let alone have informed consent.
So Noone expected Phineas Gage to be mad he had to work at the same place with the same people at the same job that but a rod through his brain???
I always felt it was improper to attribute his behavioral changes to brain damage alone. I reckon anyone who has a meter of steel rod blasted through their skull would experience behavioral changes regardless of brain damage, shits traumatic. Left him disfigured and disabled, little more than a circus attraction. I'd be irritable too
9:37 Using head injuries received during the World Wars, doctors were able to "map out" which parts of the body were covered by specific regions (which got damaged) of the brain.
15:04 didn't the Press give his vehicle that name? Didn't Jack Kevorkian use a similar vehicle for his trade?
18:00 ECT is a modern non-invasive version - medical doctors regard as not proven safe but psychiatrists swear by them.
Now they prefer a handheld Mixmaster as it's much quicker and effective.@@KOZMOuvBORG
Cool fact, I have Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) and when I'm having a particularly hard day and my heart rate will not go down, it actually DOES help when I submerge my body in ice cold water.
For anyone interested in the science, look up the human dive response.
My dad was a paranoid schizophrenic. He could be very violent. Fortunately he was diagnosed at a time when electro-shock therapy was the solution. Its effect on him was “interesting”. He was no longer violent as far as we could tell, but you could pick up an aura of extreme agitation when you talked to him.
We have a huge mental illness problem in this country today. In Tennessee, if you go to the ER with suicidal or mental concerns you can be locked in a room for several days. You stay there until space is available in a mental facility. This overwhelms a system that is already broken.
As the Firesign Theater said, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy."
ironically not that different since alcohol harms every cell in your body every time you consume more than 1 - 2 low % beers
@@saturationstation1446 a bottle rarely renders you a vegetable in one go
@@AammaK 😂😂😂 big facts!
Firesign Theater is magnificent, I used to listen with my uncle when we were tri... well, nevermind. lol
That was expanded to:
I'd rather have a free bottle in front of me than a prefrontal lobotomy.
I am so so so grateful that your Segway at the end did not turn out to be an advertisement for a certain mental health counseling/personal data collecting website.
Bad voice dictation, no biscuit. The word is segue, even if French spelling is an abomination against Latin.
Does it rhyme with hodgers?
If I'd been born 30 years earlier I think I would have opted for the procedure. Not because I think it's humane, or in any way therapeutic. But simply because when my later diagnosis presented I would have done ANYTHING to get 'myself' back (whatever that meant), my parents would have too. They sold hope of a "cure". That is horrifying.
I've got ASD. Partner has ADHD. Both only diagnosed as adults. Both literally called "Ferral" in school (We're only 28...) among other things. Our 6yr old is ASD. Our 5yr old is ASD. And 3 is being closely monitored because he's definitely ADHD but too young to get officially diagnosed. My children were incredibly unsafe at school, to themselves and others. They're now home-ed so they can stay regulated properly, get tailored education etc.
I know full well if we go back not so far, every single one of us would have been institutionalised before reaching double didgets. I almost was in my teens. Was told my son (Very bright, very capable when regulated. Just very aggressive and doesn't engage when overstimulated) might need residential care (Laughed at by professionals who saw him at home!). And this is now! He wouldn't have survived at any other point in history. It's terrifying. It will have me awake and crying some nights just thinking about how if we weren't lucky enough to have been born in a country seen as progressive, and in a time where we have more information, life could have been over so fast...
Mental health history is the stuff of nightmares.
You know, there is a point when dysgenics becomes a concern as well. Why have that many kids knowing you’re passing on the same issues?
@@donovanchilton5817 first, none of your business. Second, disabled people have always been and always will be, there is no ethical way of getting rid of all disabilities and disorders. And we don't have to. People are perfectly capable of helping and taking care of each other.
Passing on issues... Do you hear yourself? What do you propose we do?
@@anitamihholap5926 hes right tho why r u bringing more people into a worse life
If you think autism is an “issue” or that they have a worse life then you need to research autism. You have been misinformed. 1 in 52 births so you definitely know some who you don’t realize are autistic.
I have a son who is autistic and I think his dad is as well. I had a great great aunt who was eventually institutionalized. Census record ms suggest that she was likely autistic. I was horrified to learn that the hospital was known for sterilizing their patients so they could not have children and pass their “conditions” on. It made me cry thinking of what could have happened had my son been born in a different time.
14:42 PTSD is listed as one of the ailments that a lobotomy could cure, which piqued my curiosity, because I thought it was a more modern term. Indeed a quick browse of Wiki notes "Early in 1978, the diagnosis term "post-traumatic stress disorder" was first recommended in a working group...".
Can anyone shed more light on when "PTSD" was first coined?
that poster has ADD on it too, which became a diagnoseable thing in 1980. I almost think it might be a subtle satirical reference, definitely from the after-lobotomy time.
The term "post-traumatic stress disorder" came into use in the 1970s, in large part due to the diagnoses of U.S. military veterans of the Vietnam War.[25] It was officially recognized by the American Psychiatric Association in 1980 in the third edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
So it seems like the poster shown is a spoof.
But given the context in which it is shown, it's likely that whoever chose to include it, didn't realise that and took it at face value.
Not sure but it evolved from Shell Shock to Battle Fatigue to PTSD somewhere in the 70s.
This episode makes me think, in 20 or 50 years time what will scientists look back at today that was barbaric or absurd in medicine or science?
"Gender" surgery
@@jonparsons6818Gender affirming surgeries literally save people’s lives (including those of my friends who have had gender affirming surgery). I implore you to learn from those who have had gender affirming surgeries about their experiences before going off about something you clearly don’t understand.
@jonparsons6818 Shut up
@@jonparsons6818 Exactly this.
@@jonparsons6818we already think they are barbaric and absurd
"It's only brain surgery, why take your time with it?" Dude, you have my subscription
08:07 Something that might have been completely overlooked back then and also during the studies that directly followed this case is the impact of potential chronical pain the dude suffered after his acident.
While a drastic change from being well mannered to highly irratable is undoubtly a consequence of the injury and the rewiring of the brain, erratic behavior and a loss of patience is an EXTREMELY common thing to be observed in patients with chronic pain (which does not have to be a lot of pain, even the slightest 'unease' in terms of a headache WILL cause changes in temper if they're permanent and I'm sure dude suffered A LOT of chronic pain after his accident.
That's for sure. I'm a lot more cynical and frustrated from permanent head pain. At the beginning I was on my bed wishing my organs would shut up because they were too loud. I have the joy of being surrounded by cars with stereos that threaten a window's integrity. My head just wanted to explode from the throbbing pain. It took months of exposure therapy to handle even the faintest of light. Years of just getting the pain low enough to function is why I can interact with the world again. It took years to come to terms with what I lost. I'm unable to focus on anything for very long. Basically, once I have a thought I'm distracted by something. It might be something I really enjoy, but I barely can stay focused. I get along with only a couple of people. It gets pretty lonely. People online are easier since I can take forever to respond to them.
I once googled if I could get a lobotomy once... My mental was in a very dark place and I didn't feel like the doctors were listening too me, I was having panic attacks at seemingly random moments and dry heaving in the mornings. I was in a constant state of anxiety for literal years, it's kinda sad that I even googled that kind of thing it goes to show how terrible we are at handling mental issues.
We're still largely in the dark ages of mental illness treatment. Talk therapy and its offshoots like DBT are the most precise and refined treatments we have. Different medicines help some people and not others, and the only way to tell if it will help, hurt or do nothing is to try. Like lobotomies, it's akin to hitting a broken machine with a hammer with very little understanding of how the machine works. Medicines are just a more gentle hammer that's more likely to help. Maybe one day we'll have scans that can tell just what's going wrong and where. Then we might stand a chance of correcting things reliably with medicine or surgery.
What condition did you have?
@@TheSalami General anxiety disorder combined with insomnia, obsessive compulsive disorder and the autism spectrum. I probably have some type of trauma but nothing diagnosed because too me the doctors are pointless... They couldn't help me with my anxiety so there's no way they'd help me with trauma. I've been doing better simply by trying to be excessively positive in my thinking and that has helped a lot; whenever that negative voice comes too my head I tell it to go screw itself and I tell myself something positive instead and this has helped a lot
I have anxiety, am doing much better now. But the first doctor I went to tried to send me to an eating disorder ward. Thank the Gods the nurse in charge of the ward listened to me and refused to take me.
@@lizanna6390 good to hear your doing better. Anxiety can be devastating
I think you should know that I can hear a clock ticking in the background of the video. It's not super disturbing, but it's probably driving someone out there mad.
I have an ice pick that can fix that for ya'
😂
My uncle was diagnosed with a nervous breakdown in the late 1940s to early 1950s. The “cure” at that time was a lobotomy. The doctors told my grandparents to institutionalize him, my grandparents refused. He couldn’t speak words but mumbled. As he was in college to become and electrical engineer his days were spent drawing the things he’d been learning. He initially was put on Thorazine but after about 15 years my grandmother began giving him megadoses of vitamins and no medication. By the time he was in his 60s his brain began healing and he mowed the lawn and did chores. He even played tricks on my grandmother. He passed away on my birthday when he was 70.
Holy moly. I remember you celebrating 1 million subs. Youre almost at 2milly now! Congratulations, Joe! Deserved brother.
There is a film about Frances Farmer called Frances played by Jessica Lange about a woman (she was an actress in the 30s/40s ) who was very abused by the system & lobotomized in the film iirc. And of course everyone knows One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest with Nicholson. Be glad we now have addiction counseling & rehab centers & outpatient treatment & patient advocacy. Mental Health Services are still abysmal but no one will stick an ice pick in your eye (hopefully) My grandmother had her spine damaged from Electro Shock Therapy. She lived with chronic pain & depression for years until she finally offed herself by drinking bleach & taking an entire bottle of aspirin.
Lobotomy-Tour in the Lobotomile is crazy😭
I was born in 1963. Growing up, we had a joke: "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a Frontal Lobotomy!"
I thought the myth of Rosemary Kennedy being intellectually disabled had long been dispelled by a biographer not too long ago. It was more likely that Rosemary was of AVERAGE intelligence among a family of hyper-intelligent people, thus deficient by comparison. Her archived notebooks show that her aptitudes weren't that far off, just not above average enough for expectations.
It's my pet theory that she just wasn't self-repressive enough for her father's social image.
The Kennedys are, as a group, AT BEST average intelligence. Calling any of them "hyper intelligent" is pure comedy.
Bro stop a$s worshipping those billionaires. They're not rich because they're smart. They're smart because they can afford higher education. Also they're not above average level mathematics geniuses lmfao
@@samuelclemens6841 That's how that earlier generation regarded themselves. Again, I really need to find that one biography; Rosemary's mother was reported to have said that Rosemary "couldn't keep up" with the family dinner discussions. Obviously, I don't have a time machine to see if these dinner talks had intellectual rigor or if it was ivory tower nonsense. My interpretation is that Rosemary would have been the type more at ease talking about the latest celebrity gossip rather than commenting on sociopolitical issues.
She was also “difficult” (aka not a subservient young woman). I think that’s a huge factor as to why her parents decided to get her lobotomized, and why lobotomies were more prevalent in females instead of males.
Hyper intelligent people don't approve of icepicks bring shoved in their child's skulls. Even some regular folk knew it was a bad idea.
The whole video I was thinking: please don't please don't please don't be sponsored by "better help".
Thanks you!
when I sensed the sponsored segment and it turned out to not be better help, I sighed with relief out loud LMAO
the bath of surprise is interesting it reminds me of a more extreme version of what one of the therapists told us in outpatient about things you can do to stop a panic attack and one method was holding an ice cube in your hand, it kind of helps ground you in reality bc it makes you focus on your bodys physical sensations
also iirc a cold shower was also another method talked about. so i can see where they got the idea for the bath of surprise lol
Oh the note of the ice dunking: as someone with anxiety, stuff like this can help on a MUCH tamer level. Holding an ice cube in the palm of your hands, splashing cold water on your face, drinking ice cold water fast, that stuff can help. Hydrotherapy or whatever is definitely torture tho
I agree, but be careful drinking ice cold water too fast, the sudden intake of too much cold liquid can cause unconsciousness because it irritates the vagus nerve, it's quite common on hot days when people try to cool down too quickly
I was born in 1948. I remember people talking about lobotomies a lot when I was kid in the 50's. Even as a kid it seemed to me to be a very blunt instrument.
The ice picks were actually pretty sharp.
Oh, you mean...
It was and is barbaric 😎
From the thumbnail I thought it was a bullet going at a head and I thought “Dang Joe is pumping out content pretty quick now!” Lol
Same! I don't know if it's intentional or an unfortunate coincidence. It will probably get clicks though...
My grandmother helped perform lobotomy operations at Rusk State Hospital in Rusk, Texas. She rarely talked about this. My mother acted so awful when she was a child into adolescents, my grandmother talked about it to me and stated, "What could I do, put her into the state hospital all her life?" My mother is a Socipathic Narcissist. I don't communicate with her anymore. I just can't take all the drama and meanness.
19:35 omg i was listening to this as i was doing something else, and for 1 terrifying moment, I thought you were about to segway into a betterhelp sponsor 😂
I was too oh my god
Can you please do a video on schizophrenia? I recently lost my best friend by him taking his own life due to his schizophrenia driving him crazy, for lack of a better term, and I've been trying to understand it better ever since.
I'm very sorry for your loss
I think it removes survival instinct, rather than actually motivate it.
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavanano, it produces awful hallucinations that makes you crazy
@@Kannot2023 People eventually get used to them.
Most of the time, they are not even very distressing. Just weird, random, and irrational.
I have had drug induced schizophrenia due to meth I was hearing voices 24/7 n seeing stuff I was in this psychosis for 3 to 4 months lost all sense of reality was convinced my family was watching me all the time I heard my family voices 24/7 saying stuff like kill yours self your worthless we know your a junkie and just other really crazy shit one night i heard loud police sirens n sounded like a high speed chase this went on all night I had strong delusions they were watchinge through the Alexa speaker lol could hear them literally talk shit when I would sit in front of that stupid speaker i finally snapped almost threw myself off a bridge but ended up walking to state hospital was there 3 weeks it felt so real but it was all a delusions I was in my own world for those months it was like a nightmare that never stopped
I worked in an old Craftsman house or Victorian 20 some years ago. There was a hidden room in the attic space for what the owners were told held a "mongoloid" child. Humans are the worst. Thanks
When I was a baby the woman who raised me, a schizophrenic, caved my head in with a brick. The doctors at St Jude drilled a hole in my hairline to pull my caved in face off my brain. People try to accuse me of lobotomy when they notice my scar. I am relieved that the actual point of entry was the eye orbit and not the hairline. People are ignorant. It has to be something in the water to make them do this procedure. I was a psychology major. This whole discussion topic is barbaric to me but then again psychiatry is unproven science insurance shies away from covering.
Jesus Christ bro I’m glad you made it
@@blueclay22222 so am I. Ty
I work at a Developmental Center right now, i could not imagine wanting to do this to one of my clients. I do deal with some that are violent, but their personalities other than those instances are great, even if they are non-verbal. Everyone has some form of personality, and this procedure either removed it or removed them. Had one of my guys (nonverbal) go off on me tonight, slapping, hitting and trying to bite me. Didn't once think less of him, just wondered what actually caused it. If only we could peer into their thought process...
I hate to wonder, did it really sound like cracking an egg?
Also, the whole idea of mental illness coming from bacteria in the mouth result in people having all of their teeth ripped out... yeaaahhh
Both eggshells and the solid parts of human bones are made of calcium carbonate. So it might sound like crunchier than eggshells but not as crunchy as bones snapping (e.g. bones from chicken legs)
fews things are more maniacal and blood thirsty than well off eurocentrics lol. they were just making up excuses to torture people. none of them believed what they were saying about improving health. i think its funny we still have issues with professionals not understanding that correlation doesnt mean causation. like with what parts of our brain do what, when we really dont even know if the signals that go through our brain originate from our brain or our guts. modern science is showing they are nearly equal with body communication
Oof
My fibula snapping when I dislocated my ankle sounded like a wishbone snapping, FWIW.
As someone who was diagnosed with autism I'm glad I didn't get a lobotomy but I still suffered; I got diagnosed when I was 10 and then was subjected to ABA therapy when I was 12, every wednesday I had to meet with my psychologist, I went from being a happy child who most people got on with, I even had a girlfriend and it turned me into a paranoid anxious wreck. After that I ended up with anger issues and the solution to that was risperidone, these drugs are awful, don't try to say that it's humane. I ended up as a young teenager losing my sex drive and in the end I ended up completely isolated from that girl and my friends as well. As an adult I've struggled from drug and alcohol abuse because of it. Things today are still messed up.
had to look it up but it seems to be - tor//turing you into masking better to ease the discomfort of those around you. have i interpreted it right?
@@vulcanfeline Kind of. I'm eccentric but most people generally like me, the therapy I had to endure back when I was a teenager was about hiding my personality from other people, it was drilled into me that people wouldn't like me if I didn't; in actual fact people did like me but after being subjected to ABA for about 5 years I was left a broken wreck and I have trust issues to this day because of it. I don't exactly know if therapy is better for people today but I know several autistic people my age and we all have scars from it.
@@metalcascade4634 from my autistic experience, masking like that doesn't work in the long term. tbh, idk what would work but that aba sounds horrible /hugz
ps) i found a supportive community on a channel called "i have autism, now what"
@@metalcascade4634I'm so sorry 💔
My ex worked with the de-institutionalization of people committed for issues ranging from fairly severe developmental disabilities to pregnancy. Not kidding on that last one. And deafness. I met one of her clients, a then 30 something man who had spent a couple decades in an institution because he was hard of hearing.
The ice bath is still used in mental facilities today and is taught to patients to use in order to calm down. It slows down your heart rate enough so you can do another coping mechanism when distressed. (Taught this in 2022. Not exactly torture, and there is science behind it.)
I had a horrifying thought: what if the frontal lobes remained conscious, but unable to integrate with the rest of the brain?
Yo what the fuck. You could've easily not said this and spared me from that horrible thought
@@Hirosjimma You're welcome
locked-in syndrome /shivers
Oh 💔 no
@@Hirosjimma Which was an excellent reason for him to say it, and for the rest of us to spread it. Far better for you to briefly think of a horror, than for somebody to have to possibly live it.
There are people out there who would bring these surgeries back, given a chance. If the rest of us are living in a cozy world of illusion, shielded from the horrors, who will be motivated enough to stop them?
So I have serious epilepsy that is only controlled by strong controlled substances and I am so very aware of how close I am to surgery being the solution. I do love how modern medicine likes to act like it's so much better than before, and I don't wanna spit at it... I am not disabled from my disability.
But epilepsy treatment has never been "successful" in the sense that we don't have to learn how to live with major side effects. Even the medicines are really hard to deal with. My current meds took close to 2 years to be able to function again.
Epilepsy has always been a game of "this horrible thing is better than the alternative". Learning how to function again on two controlled substances (one is a benzo) was hard hard. Brain surgery is no walk in the park even with modern medicine
Trephination, historically, was an effective treatment for brain injuries that cause pressure buildup. It has been done since before recorded history and has saved countless lives. It is actually the oldest known surgery. The recent european practices of trepanning and lobotomizing are not related to the historical practice, which you claim goes back seven thousand years, but is actually far older than that.
"which you claim goes back seven thousand years" no, he claimed that we've discovered skulls with trepanation holes that date back 7,000 years, which is true, the oldest archaeological evidence we have dates from 7-8000 years ago
@@notaname8140 Closer to 8,500 but it's more accurate to say "we have been removing pieces of the skull after severe head injuries to effectively address brain swelling for tens of thousands of years, and refined it to a point of surgically drilling a clean circular hole about 8-7,000 years ago."
@@N8Dulcimer Where are you getting tens of thousands of years from? The only evidence we have dates to the mid-late neolithic period
My parents or doctors definitely would've made me get a lobotomy back then. Now I just take pills and I was in therapy for 9 years
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than have a prefrontal lobotomy. Lyrics to live by.
Haha, just don’t put the 4 year old up for collateral if your van breaks down outside of Toledo and you miss your next gig.
That’s funny you said that though, I’ve been trying for half the video to figure out if this a re-upload, or if it was another channel that had a similar video. Or possibly I’m crazy and it was all in my head, but as soon as I saw your comment I remembered writing the exact same quote. And now that I’m passed the the rose Kennedy part and into the ice pick lobotomies part, I’m certain it’s a re-upload. Joe’s video got age restricted and had to cut out some of the disturbing images or something. It must have got age restricted due to the level of gore.
Existential Blues. Beautiful reference.
@@ZXChrisR14 oh yeah T-Bone!
I was taking the Tom Waits from the Ferndale tonight route.
I about fell off my bed when you said The lobotomobile 😂 I shouldn’t be laughing but I can’t help it
His response to the part where he told us the surgeon would inject alcohol into the brain …”because you know…why not ?” Too funny! Excellent video…my kind of humor😁👏
Medicine hasn't stopped doing barbaric things, even today.
perfect video just in time for lunch time