CTA Cannons - Future Tank Weaponry
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2020
- CTA (Cased Telescoped Ammunition) cannons are far from new technology, having originally been created by Air Force researchers in the 50s, and used on light tank test beds during the 70s and 80s. So why haven't they started really showing up until now? What makes them so special? That's what I explain in this video. Though not as exotic as other cannon types like railguns, CLG (combustion light gas) guns, and ETC (electrothermal chemical) guns, CTA guns are fairly unique in their own right.
Check the channel "About" section for the link to the creator of my profile picture.
Songs used (in order from first to last):
WH40K Mechanicus - Dance of the Cryptek
Halo 3: ODST - Rain (Deference for Darkness)
Second channel: / @spookstoon
Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=2750276
Twitter: / spookston
Reddit: /u/spookston
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Twitch: / spookstonwt
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#tanks #tankhistory #warthunder - เกม
I too want my 70mm to sound like a giant tommy gun
Danke spook!
Big dakka potential
Wait, isn't Bolter guns in WH40K 75mm?
Jericho Paita 25mm- 30mm last time I checked
bigger bolter better
That breech design is very similar to the G11 receiver, but scaled up.
And the p90 as well
G11 uses CTA right?
Not telescoped in G11s case, G11 uses fully caseless ammo. In most basic form a propelant block and the bullet itself.
Kraut space magic
power by electricity not gas make them much reliable.
Last time I was this early, shells still had a diameter of a pixel
Man I’m really missing killing KV1s with R3 through the pixel weakspot
@@PorWik You disgusting R3 player
Haha I hate that thing when I'm playing against, but I have over 600 battles with it because I had found a talisman when it still was rank 2, so why not use it
Did they finally change that?
hedgehog3180 they added volumetric shells (so yes)
Should note the 40mm gun for the Ajax is also being proposed as part of a Warrior IFV upgrade package. We'll see if it goes anywhere, though.
It won't. Military hates innovation in peacetime
Just the fact that you used a track from the Mechanicus game as background music has earned ya a like, good taste.
I honestly never noticed the music over the sound of his voice. Might just be me though.
Indeed
Let's say that opening took me by surprise.
Wow, I'm impressed that a 75mm round (cased telescoped or otherwise) can pen up to 430mm of steel!!! Based on the *very* light research I did on the Internet, I calculated that, for rounds up to 90mm, the use of an APFSDS shell would result in a RHA penetration value of approximately 3.444 times the caliber size in millimeters.
So, rounding up, I estimated that a 75mm APFSDS shell would only pen around 260mm of steel. The fact that an advanced cannon plus the APFSDS CTA round could provide a boost in penetration of 170mm over my estimated value is crazy to me!
If calc u made are correct, WOW! Even absent T-72 frontal penetration (AND even air superiority), a lot of enemy MBTs could be killed by a low profile, fast moving TD, mounting (in effect), a 21st-century, anti-tank HMG!
@@sholoms Oh, great, AT machine guns... How did that work out last time?
Do you really expect a system already being pushed beyond it's capacity to stand the test of a future arms race?
@@engelbert42 how did it work out? well the military is still in love, so i would say its went extremely well. i don't think it would become the primary battle cannon, but such a weapon would become a common support weapon.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 ofc. autocannons are great to support infantry. That wasn't the question tough.
Even a quick firing 75mm gun is by no means a reliable anti tank weapon... It just makes next MBT armor design consider that threat.
So that's four tomatoes worth of performance improvement. Interesting . I was thinking two watermelons but I'll settle for four tomatoes . Probably a pretty costly system. In the neighborhood of 40 million pents.
the French EBRC Jaguar uses the CTA international 40mm CTAS cannon and is already in service. I don't think we really " have to wait to see if these projects go somewhere ".
CTA cannons are already in service
Ignored 100%
And it's working fine?
Wow, never heard of this before.
Hk g11 scaled up
Not really the same, G11 uses Caseless ammunition.
Welcome to the club
@@SleepySkull1 I dont think that's how it works
What? The G11 uses caseless ammunition, That's a fact.
Another cool thing about the new CT40 on the Ajax ifv.
So, it also has smart rounds, they can be programmed for (HE Round)
Air Burst
Contact Detonation
And FIN, for anti armour
You can fire an HE burst, programmed to:
1) punch a hole through a foot of concrete with contact Detonation
2) put 3 air Burst rounds _through to hole you punched a second before_ and burst behind it
Or you can trigger ERA on an armoured vehicle with HE and then hit that spot with a burst of FIN.
Nooo, you can't just spam rounds!
*CTA Cannons* : _Ha Ha, Rounds goes brrrr_
more like DAKADAKADAKADAKADAKA
*Three seconds of firing later: barrel fucking explodes*
Indeed
Can you do a vid on the development of composite armor?
Good idea
Nice profile pic of a Spanish Pilot!
Rapa Nuii A pilot is still a pilot they all deserve respect for what they do.(not saying you don’t respect them)
@@g_f0rce141 ofc my pa' worked in the Spanish Air force for almost 20 years that's what I said it
Rapa Nuii nice tell him thanks.
Me: *is on youtube*
YT Algorithm: would you like to have a furry explain to you a concept for a gun of which you have never heard?
not a furry; but yes
@@evolutiondriver7902 Well if you like German tanks, you're technically a furry
@@rakaipikatan8922 *purrs in Panther*
@@r3load3z34 *rawr in Tiger*
@Rakai Pikatan *breaks down in Porsche Tiger*
This is a giant H&K G11, watch the Forgotten Weapons video.
Well, almost. The G11 uses Caseless ammo, not telescoped ammo. But the mechanism is basicly the same.
it's the 6.8mm probably-not-replacement for the M16
Kraut Space Magic.
And the rounds are straight out of a nagant revolver jumbo
The 40mm CTA gun is also being used on the French Jaguar recon vehicle.
Let's ignore it 100%.
Cases telescoped ammunition likely won’t make it into small arms soon because pvt Joe Snuffy will always find a way to fuck up a system like that. Not to mention cleaning a conventional rifle takes about 150 Q-tips. Cleaning the GD CTA Carbine will take about 1500
If pvt. Snuffy is given enough free time, he'll destroy a solid steel block. This is why officers assign menial tasks to keep him busy.
I honestly don't see how that would be any more of an issue than anything currently in service. It would be no different than changing to a different type of conventional ammunition. On tanks, granted you have a quick moving autoloader that could potentially fail, sure, but a rifle is likely going to just use the same magazine system thats been used for a hundred years now. But ya know, new stuff bad, technology scary embrace monkey
Battleoid well one of the new bids for the ngsw has a battery powered swing breech and an entirely different magazine. I’m not saying it would be unreliable, but we have some dumb fucking kids in our ranks and they will absolutely destroy anything nice or too foreign to them. The sig sauer bid is the top contender in my opinion
@@Atlatl960Now that's fair enough, I could see that being an issue, however that's more a problem with the overall gun rather than just because it uses telescopic ammo. It could also easily be solved if the army stopped accepting people who are too dumb to follow simple instructions, but that'd be too easy
Battleoid my point exactly but unfortunately problem 2 won’t be solved anytime soon
"Heavy seaweed armor"
-youtube captions
Hey, that’s what ww2 Japanese tanks were made out of
3:11 "Stryker"
Also, main reason is that even China has functional CTA guns.
interestingly enough, one of the guns being tested for the Next Generation Squad Weapons (NGSW) program uses cased telescoped ammunition.
These are great, keep the design and future tech videos coming!
Btw, I'd estimate that Spookston moves more clear, comprehensible info with his calm, rapid, yet emphatic delivery than most, even well informed narrators could, taking 50% more time.
Man I really like these cannon videos, so interesting
Could be worth exploring for "full sized" guns such as 120mm or the upcoming 130mm tank guns
The CTA was used by the japanese during the pacific war and they've also used reverse swept wing on their ki's
You forget to mention the new French Recon Wheeled Tank Destroyer, the EBRC Jaguar which is beginning to enter service now is equipped with a 40mm CTA gun, the same as the AJAX.
1:23 Literally Kraut Space Magic Aka G11.
Oh boy a future tank weaponry video
It's worth noting that often new technologies are not adopted because they aren't enough of an improvement over known quantities in order to justify the investment in fully developing the technology.
Spookston: Says he won't make another HSTV-L video until it is fixed
Also Spookston: Makes a video about technologies relating to the HSTV-L
Nice Jazz at the ending (love that game lol)
I would love to see one of these videos on ram jet shells
Woo, CTAS40!
That things so cool.
Please make more videos like this one, i want to see more futuristic military technology
Im not normally a gun guy but this was pretty fascinating
France is using the 40mm CTAI on the T40 turret of the VBCI , the Jaguar and the Sphinx. There's an 10RC T40 proto too.
I know I am commenting on an 7 month old video, but i'm curious if you can use CTA for ETC cannons, or are they very much fundamentally at odds with one another?
It seems possible, but it seems equally possible that the kinds of propellants used for ETC guns might not have the correct performance characteristics to launch a nested round since they often burn quickly. They do burn more evenly, though, which could be a desirable trait. I think using a plasma igniter might at least be useful for getting consistent ignition even you don’t use an advanced propellent.
"If the CTA is so good why is it only surfacing now? well it actually has alot of problems.. _so why is it surfacing now?"_
So 400mm penetration irl, and 270 in game? Sounds legit
This is cool
maan this mechanicus soundtrack behind is terrifying me :D
I believe Ian McCollum AKA Gun Jesus did a thing on attempts to make bullets like this, some even with multiple bullets. I forget the specifics, but I think the problem was with reliability being very poor.
Spook, do you have any tips in playing the 105 M1s half upgraded (HEAT shell only)?
Haven't touch my M1 & M1IP because how unbearable the grind are
played alot of barotrauma recently and was wondering, are there any advantages to using a coilgun vs a typical machinegun on a tank or ship
i'm not sure you really need the immersion in the propellant, the cylindric case seems to be the main benefit since it allows for the push through feed system. a conventional 90mm cartridge but cylindric and with the projectile sunk into the case like that nagant revolver cartridge could give you the benefits of both.
This reminds me of Vietnam War Era rocket boats, the rounds looked like the shell and casing were wielded together.
Th launcher was a twin tube system and rounds were feed into an elevator, as they reached the tube they would turn straight up to load the round.
Though, what makes it more practical? I can imagine a slower rate of fire one of these on an Abrams, to save ammo expenditure, barrel life, accuracy, and maybe a larger round if needed. But there always needs to be a back up if one of them fails to cycle properly or breaks down. Can it be manually loaded or repaired quickly? If not, the army, navy, or air force don't want it if it can't perform in its primary function or have a secondary property of use.
Yeah, if it can't have a backup manual loading feature, it's possible the US military might shy away from it.
Our friends (Brits, French, Germans, and Japanese.) on the other hand...
Are you going to make more future gun videos?
I really like them.
Nice
So early the notification showed up half way through the video
CTA is a really interesting technology but i'm not sure if it would be ETC compatible. The CTA for small arms i've for small arms all use plastic cases but i don't know if the same goes for cannons.
I'd like to see more on the casing and projectile . Something is very weird about this .
On the subject of guns, I’ve spent some time conceptualizing a 183mm HVG ( High Velocity Gun). My thinking is that the L4 183mm had unmatched destruction potential, even to this day, among tank cannons. My biggest problem was shell size, and the only way to get a suitable reload was to slap a humongous auto loading mechanism. I wonder if CTA ammunition could solve the weight problem, though I’m not sure about a swing-breech mechanism. Also ammo would be APFSDS and HEATFS.
consider a (modified) autoloader inspired by the swedish Delat Torn turret (have magazines next to and under the gun, with arms to then transfer the shells to behind and then into the breech.
That would be so cool if the AJAX has one. Didn't the Warrior get an uprated cannon that's also going on the AJAX though?
Spookston im waiting for that decal :)
Thats cool but what ever happened to the Metal Storm weapons?
I look at those rounds and think of the Nagant pistol
I read: "GTA guns" and thought you were going to talk about the tanks of the new GTA V's several DLCs
I wonder could you use ETC gun technology with CTA?
I wonder too
The COMVAT was one of the CTA gun designs on a Bradley hull right? Fav looking Bradley hands down!
I think a case-less type of ammo would be more interesting and if it were to be combined with cased telescoped type of ammo as well
Material science has jumped leaps and bounds
That’s why it’s probably peaked interest, required service lifetime is a killer for applying new technology’s - which typically don’t or can’t last the time
I think you'll agree with me on this one spook, even if the gun needs to pound a target to pen it, the fact it's a machine cannon would terrify opposition. Mount it to a light skirmish like vehicle, or heaven forbid have a HE lobbing dedicated infantry slapper. You'd not need to do much to the enemy to make them run in absolute terror.
I think it should have be put into service, but 75mm HE, 40mm yeah it goes pop, but 75mm HE-F? That's how you delete infantry with very low collateral
well depends on the enemy. Terrorists and local enemy Militia or conscript troops yes for sure. enemy light armoured and soft skinned vehicles or some old medium tanks or MBTs possibly. Modern MBTs and well trained enemy troops not so much more of a very frustrating road bump for their offense against a defender with such tech.
not saying it isn't a threat but it comes down to the competence and gear your enemy as to counter such weapon system with. If you have competent adversary that knows how to use similar advance tech they aren't gonna give up so easily as some incompetent and low tech conscript army of less developed nation.
@@yagdtigercommander but you forget the most important thing, reputation and natiobal culture, a proper british soldier will never retreat unless it's to lure, a russian will run if you put up enough fight, france ran away before the war began
@@osmacar5331 well yes and no times have changed we don't know for sure how any one soldier would react now. France today isn't the same france as it was. Nations to learn lessons from war to be better prepared in the future. War is hell and I cant speak for soldiers involved. But some have done some pretty incredible shit against all odds.
@@yagdtigercommander militaries are very often traditional, and don't change often in who they are, when they do, minor, also france is an extremely left country, do i need to mention the film currently undergoing a rightful shit storm
Okay whatever.
Could you make video about how weird strv tanks where?
Spookton, Ajax is not a IFV, it is (apparently) a scout vehicle. warrior is being being upgraded with said CT40 cannon
Spook, thanks to your videos I have taken an interest in amoured vehicles. Can you recommend some books?
Return of the light tank is what I’m hearing... which also means return of the blitzkrieg
So many ground forces are getting ridnof their Main Battle Tanks from the USMC and the Royal Army.
CTA Cannons: I’m not like other conventional propulsion cannons!
So, technically, a russian 7.62 mm Nagant revolver from 1890s uses a CTA ammo, judging from the fact that the bullet is fully inside the case?
You are technically right.
They are the real life equivalent to Ultra Autocanons from MechWarrior universe
Your tank cannon go boom. Mine goes TAKATAKATAKATAKA
Would it be possible to combine CTA cannon technology with that of an ETC gun?
The french Jaguar EBRC is the first platform using CTA to enter service
How did they solve the problem of misfeeds? In a normal cartridge, the projectile protrudes enough to safely insert into the barrel, while the rest remains in the breach.
Nice run down. FYI "anti air defense" is really SEAD (suppression of enemy air defense). What you're referring to is air defense: defense against aircraft.
Will you be doing one on the 50mm Super shot XM903.
what would be better revolver like breech that can be loaded or swingbreech
Everybody's gangsta till they hear the RATATATATATATATATATAT
But you don't actually hear it cause you're now deaf
You forgot to mention the R-23M which also used telescopic ammo and was launched onboard a Russian space station. It was fired remotely, successfully too. Of course, it was derived from the R-23 which was mounted in the tail turret of the Tu-22 Blinder.
The CTA has been an absolute failure of the 12 Ajax vehicles delivered to the British army by end of 2020 (3 years late) 7 have been destroyed by CTA cannon misfiring and detonating the entire magazine leading to the cancellation of the Warrior upgrade program, the cancellation of future Ajax vehicles and the return to the Boxer program with a 30mm Mk44 Bushmaster II cannon from the 1970's!
Any prototype tank weapons using ceaseless ammo? Would make autoloading simpler.
Spook really do be playing war thunder like it's cod.
Honestly I saw CTA cannons and was thinking the Chicago Transportation Authority made a gun.
How does this form of ammunition actually work, though? How do you fit the projectile into the casing with the propellent and how does the propellent combust in such a way that it sends the round forward?
The cases are larger diameter than normal.
Now imagine an 155mm artilery with a CTA cannon...
So the sliding breach mechanism works kinda like the P90 does?
A VBCI 2 or an AJAX would be interesting ngl.
What if we just use a litteral arm powerd by conventional propellant or even magnets to litterally just yeet the porjctile like that one space weel concept thing that never went anywhere. If u put a bunch of powder at the base of the stick it would probably save space as there is no giant barel and because how levers work ur still throwing that projectile hella fast and if its enclosed until the shell leaves the arm I can really see this getting a rediculs amount of velocity. It would just want to tumble in the air tho witch obviously doesn't help with ballistics but I mean it removes the giant barel and still yeets stuff. It also possibly could use pretty much any ammunition type depending on how its built so it's a two steps in a random direction with one step back.
Hey, could you review the Ork vehicles from Warhammer 40k?
Basically it makes your tank blows the hot load really quick.
Looks like Kraut Space Magic 😃
I would like to know how this gun compares to the new Northrop xm913 50mm chain gun.
Good question.
So it's a large-bore G11?
I can dig it.
i was unsubscribed but notifications stayed on weird re-subd
How is a gas seal achieved between the breech and the barrel? (Perhaps it isn't, and that's why they're low-efficiency?)
Would cased telescoped ammunition actually work on tanks or just IFV'S
Rapidfire darts OH GOD
Can I get the orbital vid for the first clip
The AJAX is replacing CR2. It’s already on trials and it’s hard to see how it’s cannon WONT come to something
could be combined with etc?