Honestly, I just don't understand. Your content related to pokemon compared to others on youtube is incredible. I just don't get how your numbers are still abysmal. Truly, this channel is a hidden youtube gem. I discovered this channel by pure accident, when I was searching for ideas for my own game. I'm currently in the process of designing my own pokemon inspired monster-catching game. Although I had some different ideas and view on things from yours (I guess that's normal between us, Game Designers), your content was a massive help. Thank you for all these videos, I can't wait for the next ones! :)
Another branching path is that Eli becomes the leader of team bad guys if you lost that battle against the evil team leader eli swoops and defeats the evil team leader and if he was on team bad guys he would then become the leader of team bad guys
I have been dreaming of having this sort of rival in game for years. Honestly ever since my second generation of games played, which was Gen4 for me. Sure the last couple of generations have taken a step towards actual variation and innovation, but it's been single shuffling steps. Gamefreak and Nintendo can do more and better with this franchise and maybe one day they will. Until then I've got quality videos like these to help fill the gap.
I struggle to think that the quality will improve that much, unless development gets clearly faster and easier by new tools. They keep selling more at launch than any other Nintendo games while limiting costs of development a lot compare to those other major games. It's working out for them.
@@didack1419 Well, that only works only because Pokemon is basically a titan that is too big to have rivals. Even though there are some monster-catching games that just annihilate pokemon in terms of quality, such as Temtem, they can't be considered rivals because if pokemon was, let's say, a big bear, Temtem would be an ant. Case in point, Pokemon Masters EX. It was a total trainwreck for its first two years, with devs literally not knowing what to do, so they were throwing some random ideas that were either scrapped later or heavily misused even to this day. Even though it's kinda playable today, (it still is a game design trainwreck when you look at it more closely), it's not hard to notice it survived only because it's pokemon. Any other game would be dead in less than half a year. Or Scarlet/Violet is a joke when it comes to the gameplay quality, and yet they sold incredibly well. I imagine whatever the next games will be, they'll be hits only because it's pokemon. The worst part? Fans allowed this to happen. So what if they release a new mainline game every three years while working on side projects or remakes? They can throw at us mediocre games, because they know it will sell well. After all, money speaks louder than words. If it was any other franchise, like if the next Metroid had such quality, I imagine people would be outraged and would boycott the game. Not in the case of pokemon. After all, it's pokemon!
i feel like this take on the rival is a bit *too* dark. my personal favorite rival is Cheren, probably because despite having differing visions, he's clearly a good person, maybe even better than you. a rival that makes you rethink your actions by looking better than you feels right to me
These concerns are valid! Unfortunately I didn't have to time to go diving into how there could be consequences to your actions for joining villains. But yes, this is kinda dark! And that might mean it isn't a good fit for Pokemon, although I believe that these ideas should still be explored and experimented with to inspire new things. Great feedback, thank you!
I think it's also worthy to mention he seems like he'd be willing to follow Lance in the idea of using Pokemon against people if he was pushed far enough so I think thats where a threat of why Grunts would rather Pokemon battle than be put against a Humand and Pokemon at once
It's always a pleasure to see another video in this series coming out, and it really shows how much time, effort, and planning goes into them. This is the best design content coming out. The only thing I would say is make sure you are following your own lesson from the rival. I can tell you love the games and doing this, just make sure you are following the love and the fun in making the videos. How much you care about the design is what draws us in more than anything else.
I wish I found your channel sooner! It's a shame the series is over, the entire format of your videos and channels is elegant, provocative and well spoken. Hopefully you have more ideas to continue making videos, and then you for the ones you've already made!
Great video and great concept! For me, this is really what would be needed for Pokémon games to be more interesting and replayable. This concept is interesting enough that you wouldn't really need a new region or new Pokémon, even though that would also help. I would rather play a branching path Pokémon game with no new Pokémon than a regular "by the book" Pokémon game with new monsters.
I feel this in my bones! I would love to do something different and replayable, even if there are no new Pokemon. For a real world example, I loved Legends Arceus! Even if it didn't have a single new Pokemon in it, I would still love it.
Thinking about it, Ogrepon could fit the bill of a rampaging legendary as a rival. As for branching paths in the storyline, a "Good, Neutral or Bad ending" from Undertale would be a considerable addition to Pokemon.
I think your ideas are great, but maybe having your rival have a completely different team depending on how you fight him might take too long to program, I also think that it may be too far having you or Eli be actual criminals depending on how the story plays out. I do like the narrative branching idea and that could definitely create great replay value for Pokémon games.
I love your Pokémon design studies, they're so insightful and really fun to watch! I hope your channel gets more attention in the future! The quality of your content is amazing. :))
My first oppurtunity to watch a video of yours right after release! Definitely a great one. Eli makes for a great rival in my opinion. (Spoliers if you're in thr comments before finishing the video:) the moment where each of his pokemon ran away one by one gave me chills, and ecen his starter leaving him... yeah, thats amazing. Though the execution in game would have to live up to the idea. What I'd like to see mixed in is an oppurtunity to challenge him on his treatment of his pokemon only for him to brush you off. And then when the big moment comes you have another branching choice. You can either walk away, leaving him behind so you can face the Elite Four, or you can talk to him and offer comfort. Hes bitter and expecting an I told you so, but instead you offer to help track them down and win them back. Could be a whole other side quest where you put off challenging the elite four to help your friend. Yes he screwed up, but by remaining his friend he doesn't see things as hopeless, doesn't see himself as unforgivable, and thats why he makes the effort. Or, you can just leave him, give him the I told you so he expects, and leave him bitter. He doesnt make the effort and the game ends with hin wallowing somewhere, or you just never see him again.Maybe its a little too harsh for a kids game but I feel like choices should have consequences. Turning your back on a friend in an hout of need should lead to a bad ending. But maybe I'm just letting my imaginination run away with me. Your videos do tend to get these kind of thoughts going.
Honestly I think this is a fantastic idea! Although we were showing old Pokemon graphics in the video, in today's standards, there is room for dialogue options! And a big opportunity for story branching within it! Cheers!
Here's an interesting thing to consider for rivals. Making them something of a showcase for mechanics, items, pokemon, and strategies that you shouldn't have access to at the point in time you face them. Like for example, they have a rare pokemon that you only learn to find later. Or know of an evolution method somewhere that gives them an advantage against you at such an early stage of the battle. As you progress through the game, you would gain access to the same resources and the rival would be forced to take you seriously because he doesn't have the luxury of holding back anymore, nor do they have anything knew that you shouldn't have access to either. So you finally at last defeat the rival when both of you are at full power
I wish Pokémon had rivals with an Ai that could learn from the player and adapt their strategy, forcing the player to go through trail and error to improve their skills.
6:10 There were some RPGs I've played that did that exact thing during the story. You have 3 people fighting and they hit you with one attack and nearly wipes out everyone. So about after the 4th reset you realize that you aren't meant to win that fight. It'd be interesting if Pokemon implemented that
I'm so glad I found your channel, great videos, ideas, and writing. I've played a lot of branching path games and I've noticed they often fall into the trap of branching paths for the sake of branching paths. I had an issue with the first branch where Eli chooses to join/not join based solely off of your one action. Some things I thought of were: What motivates him to be contrarian? Why does he only refuse to join when you join, why not together, or why not opposed together? If he is identically developed as a character at that early-game point in time, why does his reaction to team bad guys differ so drastically depending on the player saying yes or no? Again, awesome video and I'm excited for more uploads. Great change of pace for pokemon storytelling
ive been binging this series and these videos are great brain massage for when you're trying to get through an writer's block for pkmn fanfic! absolutely loved the proposed rival here
Honestly, I think the main problem is a meta one, where people would be pissed that the first pokemon game where you could play as the evil team had it as the "bad ending"
Honestly I honestly hate how you didn't look at Nemona or N in your last video due to the fact they are easily among the community to be considered some of the best rivals in the series so it was honestly a shame that we didn't get to see how they worked as well as they did (or maybe your planning on doing a deep dive on both of them unlikely). But anyway your videos are still amazing and I have been subscribed for over 5 months know hope you keep making good content like this
I know! I'm sorry! But it is comments like this that help justify coming back later to look at them again. No promises, but your feedback has been received!
There’s a misconception that jerk rivals were always a thing until gen 6 that isn’t true. Jerk rivals weren’t always a thing since gen 2 and 5. Of course Temtem tried to appease these fans with max and give him a shiny to make you jealous. But later on you supposed to care for him after he got push off a cliff. They did this because your rival Jake wasn’t a jerk and joined a evil team except there he was a double agent and for Max he join the evil team because he was jealous even though he beaten you twice and has a shiny. I want to know what the original plot to Temtem was.
This comes across the same distinction that your talk of Romance in the first rivals video does: Gamefreak simply hasn't done a story with this level of complexity before. They ABSOLUTELY should, it'd elevate a pokemon experience so much to be able to choose how and why you explore the world, and evolve your relationships over time as you go, but... I don't expect a mainline pokemon game to ever be such a passion project, though, because they're produced on such a tight treadmill due to the demands of the anime, toy manufacturers and card games. (Despite the fact that nobody expects voice acting or Baldur's Gate 3 level cinematics so all pokemon needs to do is hire more and better writers and let them cook for longer)
This is a criminally underrated channel! I’ve subbed and I’ll watch through your other content too, really great job 👏🏻 The editing and structure are fantastic on their own, but you also have some great ideas on what Gamefreak and Pokémon should be doing. Very happy I stumbled across this diamond.
Rather than join the evil team, gaining a Trainer Class through training at specific gyms would feel like a less morally wrong thing to do. Always thought that Trainer Classes should have an affect, and this would be a good way to tie it to the plot. Have your rival train at a gym depending on whatever it is you chose first.
I really enjoy Eli. I'm a little confused at why he needs heterochromia _and_ frosted tips but as a character he's lovely. Although that probably has a lot to do with not experiencing the specific beat for beat and just getting the key points for my imagination to fill in regarding him. In practice, I'd probably want him to have a bit more of a rougher edge to him than this video seems to suggest, but I'd likely still like him.
If i were to make a rival, id make two. A traditional jerk rival, and a much nicer "rival". I would also give the ability to choose dialogue because one, it would allow you to interact more with the character around you and your rivals giving them more personality. And two, it just makes sense for an RPG type game, im surprised it hasnt happened yet. Through this you have two options. Be nice and make the jerk rival second guess their behaviour towards you and the nice rival be your best friend. Or be a complete douche and give the jerk rival a reason to hate your guts and make you feel bad for being a jerk to the nicer rival. Dialogue choices would also probably effect the games endings or progression. This sounds like a lot of work but it would give the characters and playable character so much personality and make it more engaging and replayable for the many different outcomes.
Great video as always, good job on illustrating the scenarios with "gameplay", makes it easy to follow and very entertaining ! I think the games had the good idea a while ago to add more than one rival but it was never really done well. In my opinion, the player needs to fight a rival multiple times and stumble upon them just when they were about to forget about their existence (in terms of pacing). The anime did a good job of that with certain recurring characters for Ash or his companions. Also, I enjoy a rival we don't have an immediate link with (not a neighbor for example), and someone who may be at a different point in their journey. It would probably be difficult to code, but if you under certain circumstances, you could trade with your rivals, like Ash & Dawn, it'd be amazing. RSE : I like Wally but he's too absent, and Brendan/May are just kinda ... there DPP : Barry is okay but with all the companions you help and have double battle with, there is a real potentials for them to appear earlier and then come back here and there, each with their own goal. HGSS : Eusine could have been a cool rival, on his own quest for Suicune, older than you, friends with a Gym leader etc. To repurpose one of your ideas, imagine if at the Lake of Rage, Peter said "Let's have a battle, my Dragonite against a single pokemon of your choice. Winner gets to handle the Red Gyarados." If you refuse or lose, he shows off the same shiny Gyarados at the League. But if you win, he congratulates you and expresses how he can't wait to fight the rest of your team. BW : Actually did that sort of nice, 2 rivals that are developped, 3 if we count N. XY : Could have been cool if all the "rivals" were actual characters. Like Tierno having set-up dance moves, or Trevor being a Pokedex nerd having rarer pokemon, battling him would actually help you see new pokemon. Shauna could have had a "girly" team, using move like attract or something. SM : Gladion is one of my favorite. We meet him not too early not too late, he has his owns goals, a cool signature pokemon. SS : Again, the right idea with Bede and Marnie being there, and showing up for the league. SV : I would have loved to see more of Arven during the "main" game. And it would make sense too since he's a cook ! Bug bakery, have a fight. Water chef, have a fight, Normal restaurant, maybe just a dialogue and then final showdown at the lighthouse. Also, if you needed a dog pokemon for the cook character : FIDOUGH. For Penny, it could have been cool if before 2 of the Team Star bases, she would challenge you to test if you were ready. We would later learn that she'd offer you easy fights to boost your confidence and make sur you could defeat Team Star. Finally my ideas : I swear I had this though while watching your video but before you mentionned Eli ... A Grunt of team Bad Guy, wanting to be an Admin. He knows that if he takes care of you, the new nuisance, he'll get promoted. Depending on battle results and dialogue choices, he can quit the team or be a surprise mini boss before the actual boss. A young aide of the Professor occasionnaly challenges you to make sure the new protégé is doing okay. After 3 encounters they discover a taste for battling, and at the end of your journey, they announce that they just won their first badge and they are going to keep on going. Thank you for your work !
Personally the joining the evil team path leaves the rivals story a bit wanting, mainly because I feel him earning his pokemon's trust back shouldn't be done offscreen, I'd instead have the part where they run away or simply stop obeying him happen around the middle after treating them worse and worse, then he has to spend the rest of the game rebuilding their relationship and this becoming both a better trainer and a better person Yeah I know it's kind of similar to silver but in what I just described, the rival would start off fine, then fall into a hole, and then finally pull himself back out at the finale compared to silver who's a jerk who ends up growing a heart and learning to treat his pokemon as friends instead of tools
While I understand the desire for there being branching paths and choices in Pokemon games, as people have mentioned time and time again, I have to question why this is brought up as something that’s like a no brainer. Implementing an entire seperate storyline or even multiple branches would be hard enough, the only JRPG series that really does something like this to an actual great extent is Shin Megami Tensei. You claim that what Pokemon does pales in comparison to most other RPGs, but I don't recall times in Dragon Quest, Xenoblade, Persona, and more where the story was significantly impacted by the player's decision in a way that wasn't just a "bad ending." Again it's fine to want that, I even think it would be cool, but having a solitary story that plays out as the devs intended isn't inherently worse or bad either. I think the most realistic approach to this would be having a game centered around it, similar to Fire Emblem Three houses, where the narrative fork is done at the beginning of the game and things stay consistent from then on, rather than having multiple forks and branching paths, which would in my opinion, make things too complicated. It would make the games more replayable, but it may also contribute to more burnout, and many people would want to be able to experience the entire story in one go instead of having to restart and make a new team. Heck having branches in the middle makes this even worse, because at least of there's just the one it's not too much of a hassle, but going on the same exact route multiple times just to finally get to the branching point would likely feel tedious for a lot of players. As stated before, this might be best for a separate game, similar to Legends where, while similar, has a different story structure to mainline Pokemon. This is because I'm sure most people wouldn't mind this as much in a shorter campaign, but having all this while at the same time having the regular length of a Pokemon campaign with the Gyms and Elite Four may feel too repetitive and tedious because of its length and how long it would take to complete just one route. Another thing, I'm surprised you never mentioned Klara and Avery. They're similar to Nemona in that they're not your age, and have different positions, as they're aspiring Gym Leaders. They also fight unfairly like you suggested, setting Toxic Spikes and Psychic Terrain respectively before the battle even starts.
I love your take on rivals Tho, I don’t think Rivals and Villains should ALWAYS be together Instead, I think Rivals should show the player How different people expirience pokemon bonds That’s How I would fix the Kalos rivals for example Xauna, Tierno and Trevor make a nice trio Xauna conects with pokemon no matter what Tierno conects thanks to Dancing And Trevor is more of a collector of data and pokemon You could have them try to mega evolve Xauna and Tierno doing it inmediatly thanks to their bonds with pokemon But Trevor has a harder time since he is more focused in getting data and not bonding with the individual pokemon Or heck Have a Akalos rival be ALL about mega evolution Only to fail at it. Even at some point, have a Team filled with pokemon able to mega evolve to no luck. Since non of them mega evolves. You Can do something similar with other regions on mind. Keeping the focus in the bond pokemon and trainer have or How the rivals grow by learning from the player
Im not a huge fan of the player being able to join team bad guys. Honestly I think it would be better if depending on how you treat him and advice you give him only his story branches. I’d also like for us to be able to battle him post his Pokémon running away
I think that Eli's story ending is too depressing for a Pokémon game. The player should have the choice to help Eli fully regain the trust of his Pokémon. While I understand the story of someone pushing someone too hard to the point they never want to do something again, Its a Pokémon game, they should want to fight at some point at least some of them perhaps with a different trainer or if they really never wanted to fight it would make Eli more cruel than I think its intended and what would that say about your Pokémon. While Eli's Pokémon have a personality and can react to him yours would feel more hollow if they could never run away no matter how much you mistreat them. While I understand it is a suspicion of disbelief you have to accept to some extent It is not as bad when every Pokémon seems to enjoy fighting to some extent. My best argument is that it would make me feel evil. If Pokémon don't seem to enjoy fighting shouldn't I change my ways and become like Eli? I know they left him because he was mistreating them but how do I know if my Pokémon feel the same way or not? You might say the friendship mechanic but that is just because I keep winning and no matter how low it goes my Pokémon never leave me. And I don't lose on purpose. And look I understand sad endings are powerful I love P3 and it has the saddest ending ever. I actually would prefer if all his Pokémon ran away forever and he never got them back and is now starting to train a new Pokémon he wont abuse because that keeps the Pokémon wanting to or enjoying fighting that is essential for Pokémon games to not feel like real world animal fighting. And yeah. I hope that takes away the notion that its a good idea because it would make people Emotional or that sad endings stick with you more cause the reason it would stick in my mind is because it would be a bad idea at least in my opinion. some side things: You could make Eli's Pokémon always come back after releasing them just like some games do with Pokémon if you cannot teach any other Pokémon in your collection a specific hm. Also it would feel unfulfilling to never fight your rival at the height of their power.
It’s pretty outdated and doesn’t feel that great to play anymore, but the fangame Pokemon: Legends of the Arena has a good rival. He’s your little brother with an inferiority complex and ends up making some unsavory life choices as the game goes on. There’s even a bit of environmental storytelling with a volcano that is supposed to have a Moltres at the peak, yet is nowhere to be found 🧐
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Honestly, I just don't understand. Your content related to pokemon compared to others on youtube is incredible. I just don't get how your numbers are still abysmal. Truly, this channel is a hidden youtube gem.
I discovered this channel by pure accident, when I was searching for ideas for my own game. I'm currently in the process of designing my own pokemon inspired monster-catching game. Although I had some different ideas and view on things from yours (I guess that's normal between us, Game Designers), your content was a massive help.
Thank you for all these videos, I can't wait for the next ones! :)
I couldn't agree more, I genuinely can't understand how this channel hasn't blown up
He doesn't pander to 9 year olds 😂
Goated channel tho fr
Another branching path is that Eli becomes the leader of team bad guys if you lost that battle against the evil team leader eli swoops and defeats the evil team leader and if he was on team bad guys he would then become the leader of team bad guys
I have been dreaming of having this sort of rival in game for years. Honestly ever since my second generation of games played, which was Gen4 for me. Sure the last couple of generations have taken a step towards actual variation and innovation, but it's been single shuffling steps. Gamefreak and Nintendo can do more and better with this franchise and maybe one day they will. Until then I've got quality videos like these to help fill the gap.
I struggle to think that the quality will improve that much, unless development gets clearly faster and easier by new tools.
They keep selling more at launch than any other Nintendo games while limiting costs of development a lot compare to those other major games. It's working out for them.
@@didack1419 Well, that only works only because Pokemon is basically a titan that is too big to have rivals. Even though there are some monster-catching games that just annihilate pokemon in terms of quality, such as Temtem, they can't be considered rivals because if pokemon was, let's say, a big bear, Temtem would be an ant.
Case in point, Pokemon Masters EX. It was a total trainwreck for its first two years, with devs literally not knowing what to do, so they were throwing some random ideas that were either scrapped later or heavily misused even to this day. Even though it's kinda playable today, (it still is a game design trainwreck when you look at it more closely), it's not hard to notice it survived only because it's pokemon. Any other game would be dead in less than half a year. Or Scarlet/Violet is a joke when it comes to the gameplay quality, and yet they sold incredibly well. I imagine whatever the next games will be, they'll be hits only because it's pokemon.
The worst part? Fans allowed this to happen. So what if they release a new mainline game every three years while working on side projects or remakes? They can throw at us mediocre games, because they know it will sell well. After all, money speaks louder than words. If it was any other franchise, like if the next Metroid had such quality, I imagine people would be outraged and would boycott the game. Not in the case of pokemon. After all, it's pokemon!
@@MaxBurnHeart I know all of that xd, that was my point
i feel like this take on the rival is a bit *too* dark. my personal favorite rival is Cheren, probably because despite having differing visions, he's clearly a good person, maybe even better than you. a rival that makes you rethink your actions by looking better than you feels right to me
I agree, maybe having you or your rival be actual criminals with no consequences depending on how the story plays out is a bit too far.
These concerns are valid! Unfortunately I didn't have to time to go diving into how there could be consequences to your actions for joining villains. But yes, this is kinda dark! And that might mean it isn't a good fit for Pokemon, although I believe that these ideas should still be explored and experimented with to inspire new things. Great feedback, thank you!
I think it's also worthy to mention he seems like he'd be willing to follow Lance in the idea of using Pokemon against people if he was pushed far enough so I think thats where a threat of why Grunts would rather Pokemon battle than be put against a Humand and Pokemon at once
It's always a pleasure to see another video in this series coming out, and it really shows how much time, effort, and planning goes into them. This is the best design content coming out.
The only thing I would say is make sure you are following your own lesson from the rival. I can tell you love the games and doing this, just make sure you are following the love and the fun in making the videos. How much you care about the design is what draws us in more than anything else.
Holy Shiinotic that scene with Eli’s Pokémon running away hit like a truck.
I wish I found your channel sooner! It's a shame the series is over, the entire format of your videos and channels is elegant, provocative and well spoken.
Hopefully you have more ideas to continue making videos, and then you for the ones you've already made!
Great video and great concept! For me, this is really what would be needed for Pokémon games to be more interesting and replayable. This concept is interesting enough that you wouldn't really need a new region or new Pokémon, even though that would also help. I would rather play a branching path Pokémon game with no new Pokémon than a regular "by the book" Pokémon game with new monsters.
I feel this in my bones! I would love to do something different and replayable, even if there are no new Pokemon. For a real world example, I loved Legends Arceus! Even if it didn't have a single new Pokemon in it, I would still love it.
Thinking about it, Ogrepon could fit the bill of a rampaging legendary as a rival. As for branching paths in the storyline, a "Good, Neutral or Bad ending" from Undertale would be a considerable addition to Pokemon.
I think your ideas are great, but maybe having your rival have a completely different team depending on how you fight him might take too long to program, I also think that it may be too far having you or Eli be actual criminals depending on how the story plays out. I do like the narrative branching idea and that could definitely create great replay value for Pokémon games.
I love your Pokémon design studies, they're so insightful and really fun to watch! I hope your channel gets more attention in the future! The quality of your content is amazing. :))
Absolutely adore the branching in the rival’s story.
My first oppurtunity to watch a video of yours right after release! Definitely a great one. Eli makes for a great rival in my opinion. (Spoliers if you're in thr comments before finishing the video:) the moment where each of his pokemon ran away one by one gave me chills, and ecen his starter leaving him... yeah, thats amazing. Though the execution in game would have to live up to the idea.
What I'd like to see mixed in is an oppurtunity to challenge him on his treatment of his pokemon only for him to brush you off. And then when the big moment comes you have another branching choice. You can either walk away, leaving him behind so you can face the Elite Four, or you can talk to him and offer comfort. Hes bitter and expecting an I told you so, but instead you offer to help track them down and win them back. Could be a whole other side quest where you put off challenging the elite four to help your friend. Yes he screwed up, but by remaining his friend he doesn't see things as hopeless, doesn't see himself as unforgivable, and thats why he makes the effort.
Or, you can just leave him, give him the I told you so he expects, and leave him bitter. He doesnt make the effort and the game ends with hin wallowing somewhere, or you just never see him again.Maybe its a little too harsh for a kids game but I feel like choices should have consequences. Turning your back on a friend in an hout of need should lead to a bad ending.
But maybe I'm just letting my imaginination run away with me. Your videos do tend to get these kind of thoughts going.
Honestly I think this is a fantastic idea! Although we were showing old Pokemon graphics in the video, in today's standards, there is room for dialogue options! And a big opportunity for story branching within it! Cheers!
I'm glad the youtube algorithm put this chanel in my homepage, I watch the whole Reboot series and i quite enjoy your vision of a pokemon game.
This video and the Idea of a Rival - who shifts in personality - aged quite well in the Teal Mask DLC with Kieran
Here's an interesting thing to consider for rivals. Making them something of a showcase for mechanics, items, pokemon, and strategies that you shouldn't have access to at the point in time you face them. Like for example, they have a rare pokemon that you only learn to find later. Or know of an evolution method somewhere that gives them an advantage against you at such an early stage of the battle. As you progress through the game, you would gain access to the same resources and the rival would be forced to take you seriously because he doesn't have the luxury of holding back anymore, nor do they have anything knew that you shouldn't have access to either. So you finally at last defeat the rival when both of you are at full power
I wish Pokémon had rivals with an Ai that could learn from the player and adapt their strategy, forcing the player to go through trail and error to improve their skills.
I love the desigh of the rival he looks like me 💜
This series is SOOOOO good for my fakemon writing, amazin work
the idea of the pokemon leaving the rival gave me goosebumps. It really shows just how bad he became. I absolutely love these ideas!
6:10 There were some RPGs I've played that did that exact thing during the story. You have 3 people fighting and they hit you with one attack and nearly wipes out everyone. So about after the 4th reset you realize that you aren't meant to win that fight.
It'd be interesting if Pokemon implemented that
Dope video
I'm so excited to see another of your videos!! This is the content I want⭐
I'm so glad I found your channel, great videos, ideas, and writing. I've played a lot of branching path games and I've noticed they often fall into the trap of branching paths for the sake of branching paths. I had an issue with the first branch where Eli chooses to join/not join based solely off of your one action. Some things I thought of were: What motivates him to be contrarian? Why does he only refuse to join when you join, why not together, or why not opposed together? If he is identically developed as a character at that early-game point in time, why does his reaction to team bad guys differ so drastically depending on the player saying yes or no?
Again, awesome video and I'm excited for more uploads. Great change of pace for pokemon storytelling
ive been binging this series and these videos are great brain massage for when you're trying to get through an writer's block for pkmn fanfic! absolutely loved the proposed rival here
Honestly, I think the main problem is a meta one, where people would be pissed that the first pokemon game where you could play as the evil team had it as the "bad ending"
Honestly I honestly hate how you didn't look at Nemona or N in your last video due to the fact they are easily among the community to be considered some of the best rivals in the series so it was honestly a shame that we didn't get to see how they worked as well as they did (or maybe your planning on doing a deep dive on both of them unlikely). But anyway your videos are still amazing and I have been subscribed for over 5 months know hope you keep making good content like this
I was also a little disappointed by that.
I know! I'm sorry! But it is comments like this that help justify coming back later to look at them again. No promises, but your feedback has been received!
Amazing concept, love the idea of player actions change the character development of the rival and possible endings to Eli character arc.
There’s a misconception that jerk rivals were always a thing until gen 6 that isn’t true. Jerk rivals weren’t always a thing since gen 2 and 5. Of course Temtem tried to appease these fans with max and give him a shiny to make you jealous. But later on you supposed to care for him after he got push off a cliff. They did this because your rival Jake wasn’t a jerk and joined a evil team except there he was a double agent and for Max he join the evil team because he was jealous even though he beaten you twice and has a shiny. I want to know what the original plot to Temtem was.
It was Gen 3 that invented nice rivals and the only reason they say it was Gen 6 because they just to bash on it
This comes across the same distinction that your talk of Romance in the first rivals video does: Gamefreak simply hasn't done a story with this level of complexity before. They ABSOLUTELY should, it'd elevate a pokemon experience so much to be able to choose how and why you explore the world, and evolve your relationships over time as you go, but... I don't expect a mainline pokemon game to ever be such a passion project, though, because they're produced on such a tight treadmill due to the demands of the anime, toy manufacturers and card games. (Despite the fact that nobody expects voice acting or Baldur's Gate 3 level cinematics so all pokemon needs to do is hire more and better writers and let them cook for longer)
This is a criminally underrated channel! I’ve subbed and I’ll watch through your other content too, really great job 👏🏻 The editing and structure are fantastic on their own, but you also have some great ideas on what Gamefreak and Pokémon should be doing. Very happy I stumbled across this diamond.
Rather than join the evil team, gaining a Trainer Class through training at specific gyms would feel like a less morally wrong thing to do. Always thought that Trainer Classes should have an affect, and this would be a good way to tie it to the plot. Have your rival train at a gym depending on whatever it is you chose first.
brilliant! i'd happily play this dream version.
I really enjoy Eli. I'm a little confused at why he needs heterochromia _and_ frosted tips but as a character he's lovely. Although that probably has a lot to do with not experiencing the specific beat for beat and just getting the key points for my imagination to fill in regarding him. In practice, I'd probably want him to have a bit more of a rougher edge to him than this video seems to suggest, but I'd likely still like him.
If i were to make a rival, id make two. A traditional jerk rival, and a much nicer "rival". I would also give the ability to choose dialogue because one, it would allow you to interact more with the character around you and your rivals giving them more personality. And two, it just makes sense for an RPG type game, im surprised it hasnt happened yet.
Through this you have two options. Be nice and make the jerk rival second guess their behaviour towards you and the nice rival be your best friend. Or be a complete douche and give the jerk rival a reason to hate your guts and make you feel bad for being a jerk to the nicer rival.
Dialogue choices would also probably effect the games endings or progression.
This sounds like a lot of work but it would give the characters and playable character so much personality and make it more engaging and replayable for the many different outcomes.
Great video as always, good job on illustrating the scenarios with "gameplay", makes it easy to follow and very entertaining !
I think the games had the good idea a while ago to add more than one rival but it was never really done well. In my opinion, the player needs to fight a rival multiple times and stumble upon them just when they were about to forget about their existence (in terms of pacing). The anime did a good job of that with certain recurring characters for Ash or his companions. Also, I enjoy a rival we don't have an immediate link with (not a neighbor for example), and someone who may be at a different point in their journey. It would probably be difficult to code, but if you under certain circumstances, you could trade with your rivals, like Ash & Dawn, it'd be amazing.
RSE : I like Wally but he's too absent, and Brendan/May are just kinda ... there
DPP : Barry is okay but with all the companions you help and have double battle with, there is a real potentials for them to appear earlier and then come back here and there, each with their own goal.
HGSS : Eusine could have been a cool rival, on his own quest for Suicune, older than you, friends with a Gym leader etc.
To repurpose one of your ideas, imagine if at the Lake of Rage, Peter said "Let's have a battle, my Dragonite against a single pokemon of your choice. Winner gets to handle the Red Gyarados." If you refuse or lose, he shows off the same shiny Gyarados at the League. But if you win, he congratulates you and expresses how he can't wait to fight the rest of your team.
BW : Actually did that sort of nice, 2 rivals that are developped, 3 if we count N.
XY : Could have been cool if all the "rivals" were actual characters. Like Tierno having set-up dance moves, or Trevor being a Pokedex nerd having rarer pokemon, battling him would actually help you see new pokemon. Shauna could have had a "girly" team, using move like attract or something.
SM : Gladion is one of my favorite. We meet him not too early not too late, he has his owns goals, a cool signature pokemon.
SS : Again, the right idea with Bede and Marnie being there, and showing up for the league.
SV : I would have loved to see more of Arven during the "main" game. And it would make sense too since he's a cook ! Bug bakery, have a fight. Water chef, have a fight, Normal restaurant, maybe just a dialogue and then final showdown at the lighthouse. Also, if you needed a dog pokemon for the cook character : FIDOUGH.
For Penny, it could have been cool if before 2 of the Team Star bases, she would challenge you to test if you were ready. We would later learn that she'd offer you easy fights to boost your confidence and make sur you could defeat Team Star.
Finally my ideas :
I swear I had this though while watching your video but before you mentionned Eli ... A Grunt of team Bad Guy, wanting to be an Admin. He knows that if he takes care of you, the new nuisance, he'll get promoted. Depending on battle results and dialogue choices, he can quit the team or be a surprise mini boss before the actual boss.
A young aide of the Professor occasionnaly challenges you to make sure the new protégé is doing okay. After 3 encounters they discover a taste for battling, and at the end of your journey, they announce that they just won their first badge and they are going to keep on going.
Thank you for your work !
Personally the joining the evil team path leaves the rivals story a bit wanting, mainly because I feel him earning his pokemon's trust back shouldn't be done offscreen, I'd instead have the part where they run away or simply stop obeying him happen around the middle after treating them worse and worse, then he has to spend the rest of the game rebuilding their relationship and this becoming both a better trainer and a better person
Yeah I know it's kind of similar to silver but in what I just described, the rival would start off fine, then fall into a hole, and then finally pull himself back out at the finale compared to silver who's a jerk who ends up growing a heart and learning to treat his pokemon as friends instead of tools
While I understand the desire for there being branching paths and choices in Pokemon games, as people have mentioned time and time again, I have to question why this is brought up as something that’s like a no brainer. Implementing an entire seperate storyline or even multiple branches would be hard enough, the only JRPG series that really does something like this to an actual great extent is Shin Megami Tensei. You claim that what Pokemon does pales in comparison to most other RPGs, but I don't recall times in Dragon Quest, Xenoblade, Persona, and more where the story was significantly impacted by the player's decision in a way that wasn't just a "bad ending." Again it's fine to want that, I even think it would be cool, but having a solitary story that plays out as the devs intended isn't inherently worse or bad either. I think the most realistic approach to this would be having a game centered around it, similar to Fire Emblem Three houses, where the narrative fork is done at the beginning of the game and things stay consistent from then on, rather than having multiple forks and branching paths, which would in my opinion, make things too complicated. It would make the games more replayable, but it may also contribute to more burnout, and many people would want to be able to experience the entire story in one go instead of having to restart and make a new team. Heck having branches in the middle makes this even worse, because at least of there's just the one it's not too much of a hassle, but going on the same exact route multiple times just to finally get to the branching point would likely feel tedious for a lot of players. As stated before, this might be best for a separate game, similar to Legends where, while similar, has a different story structure to mainline Pokemon. This is because I'm sure most people wouldn't mind this as much in a shorter campaign, but having all this while at the same time having the regular length of a Pokemon campaign with the Gyms and Elite Four may feel too repetitive and tedious because of its length and how long it would take to complete just one route.
Another thing, I'm surprised you never mentioned Klara and Avery. They're similar to Nemona in that they're not your age, and have different positions, as they're aspiring Gym Leaders. They also fight unfairly like you suggested, setting Toxic Spikes and Psychic Terrain respectively before the battle even starts.
I love your take on rivals
Tho, I don’t think Rivals and Villains should ALWAYS be together
Instead, I think Rivals should show the player How different people expirience pokemon bonds
That’s How I would fix the Kalos rivals for example
Xauna, Tierno and Trevor make a nice trio
Xauna conects with pokemon no matter what
Tierno conects thanks to Dancing
And Trevor is more of a collector of data and pokemon
You could have them try to mega evolve
Xauna and Tierno doing it inmediatly thanks to their bonds with pokemon
But Trevor has a harder time since he is more focused in getting data and not bonding with the individual pokemon
Or heck
Have a Akalos rival be ALL about mega evolution
Only to fail at it. Even at some point, have a Team filled with pokemon able to mega evolve to no luck. Since non of them mega evolves.
You Can do something similar with other regions on mind. Keeping the focus in the bond pokemon and trainer have or How the rivals grow by learning from the player
11:30 well that's kinda dark for a game targeted for children
Hi, what's the music you use in transitions ?
The music is from the band Wintergatan! You can find and download their music at www.wintergatan.net
Obviously, I'm a big fan of their work :P
Im not a huge fan of the player being able to join team bad guys. Honestly I think it would be better if depending on how you treat him and advice you give him only his story branches. I’d also like for us to be able to battle him post his Pokémon running away
I think that Eli's story ending is too depressing for a Pokémon game. The player should have the choice to help Eli fully regain the trust of his Pokémon. While I understand the story of someone pushing someone too hard to the point they never want to do something again, Its a Pokémon game, they should want to fight at some point at least some of them perhaps with a different trainer or if they really never wanted to fight it would make Eli more cruel than I think its intended and what would that say about your Pokémon. While Eli's Pokémon have a personality and can react to him yours would feel more hollow if they could never run away no matter how much you mistreat them. While I understand it is a suspicion of disbelief you have to accept to some extent It is not as bad when every Pokémon seems to enjoy fighting to some extent. My best argument is that it would make me feel evil. If Pokémon don't seem to enjoy fighting shouldn't I change my ways and become like Eli? I know they left him because he was mistreating them but how do I know if my Pokémon feel the same way or not? You might say the friendship mechanic but that is just because I keep winning and no matter how low it goes my Pokémon never leave me. And I don't lose on purpose. And look I understand sad endings are powerful I love P3 and it has the saddest ending ever. I actually would prefer if all his Pokémon ran away forever and he never got them back and is now starting to train a new Pokémon he wont abuse because that keeps the Pokémon wanting to or enjoying fighting that is essential for Pokémon games to not feel like real world animal fighting. And yeah. I hope that takes away the notion that its a good idea because it would make people Emotional or that sad endings stick with you more cause the reason it would stick in my mind is because it would be a bad idea at least in my opinion.
some side things: You could make Eli's Pokémon always come back after releasing them just like some games do with Pokémon if you cannot teach any other Pokémon in your collection a specific hm.
Also it would feel unfulfilling to never fight your rival at the height of their power.
You got a discord I could join this is fun.
It’s pretty outdated and doesn’t feel that great to play anymore, but the fangame Pokemon: Legends of the Arena has a good rival. He’s your little brother with an inferiority complex and ends up making some unsavory life choices as the game goes on. There’s even a bit of environmental storytelling with a volcano that is supposed to have a Moltres at the peak, yet is nowhere to be found 🧐