PLEASE - Change the mains output connector in the box to a female one. Currently without the mating connector you have a possibility of mains sitting on those exposed pins. Other than that, an excellent project
I believe you would want the holy crap one to be Normally Closed (NC) and it needing to be constantly activated, that way in case of the regular one failing and a power failure, the oh crap one would fall closed (unless it doesn't auto-reset), also that way if a wire is somehow damaged, it will fail safe
Those angled holes on the switch block aren't meant to mate to matching holes in the panel. You're meant to just make the hole for the switch actuator and then use those screws to jack against the rear of the panel.
John I love the idea but when your coolant evaporates it's only losing the water, all the oil stays behind. If you just keep replenishing the tank with mixed coolant instead of water your tank concentration is just going to continuously climb regardless of the concentration you are adding
John you are such an inspiration, I started my company about five years ago, and you were the one that made me believe it to be possible, success wasn't as quick as for the grimsmo brothers but for the first time this year, it seems we got something happening. Thank you for sharing this fascinating journey with us
The point of the angled threaded holes on the E Stop is that you don't need to thread anything on the body. you just print a hole for the E stop body and the screws you put in press into the print and secure the button with friction
New shop looks awesome. No trip hazards on the floor was brilliant. One thing I recommend is labeling everything (~, pipes, circuits., etc) it will help in the day to day operation and it will pay off . Another idea is to have all your processes written down, so you don't forget, or someone else doesn't have to find someone else in an emergency(~). (your forgetting what light did what on the green box prompted this) ;) I've been watching you for a while, you've come a long way. keep up the great work.
Seems like something as simple as a toilet tank float switch type of system would be easy and cheap...the plumbing is a whole different issue, but keeping the coolant topped off should be quite easy perhaps?
I have that same setup for my house with the pump, but a larger high pressure membrane setup for the RO system. Works excellent! Have RO water out of every faucet in the house.
That looks like a great system. From my experience of dealing with those valves, they will clog up and the rubber will harden over time. Since you are never cycling the safety valve you won't know if it will actually work. Id suggest diversity in your valves and use something like one of the whole house shutoff valves which is an electric actuator on a ball valve that way it won't be affected by any minerals and doesn't continually use electricity to stay open. The have gotten very cheap now a days where as they used to be very expensive in the days of only process control people using them.
Cool looking system A for effort but yeah you beat me to it. SSR voltage drop = heat gotta go somewhere. He may be able to raise them off on standoffs on an aluminum plate with some ventilation on the enclosure
I know many people will comment that, but when you add the 24/7 always on auto fill. You really should get rid of shark bite fittings. Permanent connections are the way to go. Right now, with a hundred ball valves that are normally closed, the risk isn't that big, but as soon as all the valves are normally open, the risk is increasingly scary.
I helped set up a large mold shop starting in 1988, we had 15 cnc machines and half a dozen grinders. We got out coolant system from Master Chemicals. it consisted of two 200 gal tanks stacked one on top of the other, a water filter system and a yellow bellied sump sucker www.masterfluidsolutions.com/na/en-us/xybex/show-product-description.php?pid=YBSS . The coolant was removed from the machines and put into the top tank which had an oil skimmer, this was allowed to settle and skim. then it would be transferred t the lower tank, and topped up with water or more coolant to bring it to the proper percentage. This was then pumped into the clean side of the sump sucker and distributed to machines as needed. The biggest thing was to check the concentration in the coolant. Just topping it up with new coolant will eventually increase the concentration over time.
Awesome man, just a thought for the second safety flow switches. Maybe adding a bright light or buzzer sound so you guys know if the system is in the second safety flow switch/valve mode.
For the float valves on the machine for top up, you could probably get an output from the control to see when a cycle is running, so you only sample the float valve when the cycle has finished and 5 minutes had passed so levels have normalised. Nice little Arduino project right there.
Awesome system John, that’s the way to do it. One suggestion for the Coolant Gun; install a small high pressure ball valve just before each gun and you eliminate the leaking at the gun. As an extra you get spillage safety if a gun valve should fail!
Oh man. Great project. Glad I got to see that Grundfos pump - just what I need for my private water supply in the house. We have our water well and need this for keeping pressure up inside the house. Right now that's being run by a noisy compressor that kicks in every time we use the water, so I hope maybe this pump would be able to do that task - and a lot quieter.
See me I would have just mounted some toilet tank valves in the machine sumps and had automatic level maintained but it seems that would not have made as fun a project. :-)
You can add gas pump handles to every coolant tank. If your tank running low, just lock the handle in the open position and it will stop when it's full.
Automation is epic! Robotics is joyous! Slowly but surely you will get there, but it never seems fast enough!!! Now I think that I heard you mention the word Rask at least once! Speaking for most I am certain that more talk about it would be greatly appreciated! Thankyou!!!
I would add a waterlock before the mixatron. There are waterlocks where you can set the amount off fluid. This alows you to keep all the valves open and the hoses ready to go. If there is a spill, because of a pope breaking it is not more then the set amount.
Hi John! You could try Siemens E-Stop, buttons and lights. They are so much easier to mount, no tools needed just put the E-Stop through the hole and clip the backpiece on. Trust me if you use this once you don't want to mess around with anything other again.
Great idea with the coolant, especially if you could get it autonomous. So it fills the coolant if its low or changes the coolant percentage. Thats way to much work though. At my work we have a coolant mixer that goes into the 55 gallon and pumps water and coolant just from the water pressure. That goes into a 20 gallon tank with a house on a raised cart. We roll that cart to the machine and it gravity feeds water/ coolant into the machine.
it would be really cool to see the multiple mixatron setup, maybe mix the highest concentration needed from the start like now, and have a water mixatron on each machine to dilute it down to the correct level with a solenoid valve in each machine to cut it to the right level
Wouldn't it make more sense to have two central mixers and two coolant lines with different concentrations? With our old coolant we just had one coolant line and one water line, so you just messure the concentration and just switch to the line you need.
@@AdrianTache I mean I don’t see that we should be putting a price limit on certain objects. Montblanc makes Pens for anywhere for a few hundred/thousand dollars, Rolex/Patek makes watches for thousands and essentially you will be just fine with a BIC pen and a Casio watch. I collect knives and maybe a few other things, and eventhough 1000$ for a knife is a lot, I don’t regret buying it because I know what went into making it. Maybe it’s not worth 1000$, maybe it is. But if your not really on a budget in that price range it is not so important weather it’s worth 800$ or 1000$ etc. If you are on a budget which most people will be when it comes to a 1000$ knife, then you will not get be getting great returns for your 1000$ Knife because essentially it will be doing the same thing cheaper knives can aswell. If your looking for something unique and love their designs and are not on a budget, their knives are a thing of beauty.
Hi John. Again a fantastic video. Only one thing that caught my attention. Never put more than one cable in each slot in the Wago connectors. You risk that only one of the cables is held firmly. Then it is better to make a short cable from one block to another if you have more than 5 cables. Best regards Thomas
You could add a float to each of your coolant sumps, and control a solenoid valve on each machine to prevent accidentally overfilling it when washing down stuff.
1. McMaster as mechanical float valve so no need for more wiring/complications. 2. If you fear of spills, have an arduino control the relays and time the daily fill up so that if let’s say it takes 1 minutes then if the pumps is going for 2 minutes due to failure it will shut off the pump. Then have a timed (X minutes) override button for coolant change on the controller. 3. I’m +1 on getting the Samsung SmartThings, my whole house as been running on SmartThings for 4 years and I love it. With good quality sensors and switch it runs great, plus with Webcore you can make you’re on easy automation. Right now Samsung as discontinued the making/selling of the hubs but it as been purchased by Aeotec and they’re currently available in Europe and are suppose to be here shortly. With SmartThings you could add water leak sensor at key points and control a relay box like the Zooz Z-Wave Plus S2 to shut off the system. You can even have remote controlled ball valve for emergency. Like the Dome Water Main Controller.
just a thought on the automation side of things, because I want such a system for our shop aswell: put the height sensor at a level where it senses the 'machine on maximum' as its maximum. Machine gets low will always be safe to top up, because it only fills to the 'machine on maximum' Also from personal experience, i like the 'hose outside, hanging through the sheetmetal into the machine' more than the 'hanging inside the machine'- gun location. I'm the kind of person who likes cleaning, but only with clean equipment. (I hate this greasy stuff which builds up on the gun in the machine) Great progress btw, keep on going! greatings from over the pond
John.. The angled screws on the Estop Sw are supposed to grip to the back of your panel behind the hole, in your case the green (they dont penetrte through the panel) They sandwhich the switch block between the button mount and the panel. Did you like the John ..... bit (I laugh evry time Jon Saunders tells you off on the podcasts). Im liking the work, good to see you are all well and business is still surviving.
Just noticed the hose ends near quick coupler. Gates makes a heat shrink hose clamps that would be amazing for your application. No catching your hand on stainless hose clamp.
John, I know it might be a bit of an issue with how cold you get outside there, but the ultimate redundancy to mitigate a leak issue would be to put a nipple out of the side door high on the tank and run a hose from it to outside. That way, no matter how hard your system tries to overfill, it can't get to your floor. Project looks great man! Also, flip your quick connect. It looks like the incoming line has the male, and if you pop that collar there is going to flow until you cut off your pump and everything above your nozzle drains out. Maybe for the nozzle drip you make where you rest it be where it can just drains down into the machine. On the on machine floats, you don't need to have low, high, and danger levels, you just need a danger one and a set level one, the hysteresis of the switch keep the fluid where it needs to be. Otherwise, old toilet bowl style floats work damn well.
If you put a float valve in each machine's tank then you wouldn't be able to over-fill them. Run that to a ball valve. In the morning open the ball valve until the tank fills and the float valve closes, then close the ball valve so it doesn't overfill. Coolant for washdown could be taken from the machine's coolant pump with disrupting the level.
John, DIN rail is cheap. For as much as you use buy a couple sticks and forget waiting on a 3D print. Nice molded plastic electronics boxes are a bit expensive but compared to maybe 24 hours of prints (or 48 if the first goes wrong), it's not that bad. They don't let you add logos but I bet you have stickers and a label maker. A heat gun with a heat shrink nozzle will heat all the way around your wire, preventing lumpy wrinkled heat shrink and reducing the chance of overheating your wires. It might not work any better than a lighter but I think it is more consistent and you get to avoid an open flame in the shop. Open flame probably isn't a big safety risk in your new shop but in a cluttered space like your old shop (or my space), after using the right tool, I'm a heatgun fan. I'm not a fan of your coolant gun setup. I think it would make more sense to run the guns off of the internal coolant pump so you can rinse off without overfilling and keep your fill system separate.
Projects like this are sometimes a great way to clear your head when you're having problems with another project. When I'm banging my head against the wall on one project I will often walk away, and spend a few hours / few days on something else. Then things seem to go more smooth when I come back to the issue that was frustrating me.
Where is your spring steel sheet for the PRUSA? You're printing directly on the heated plate which is a no-no. Love the DIY build :) well done. Also, on those heat-set inserts, you can use a small sheet of metal to push them flush against the surface and help them cool faster.
The coolant gun on our DMG-MORI has a magnet on the side of it so it just snaps to the side of the machine, seems like a much better idea than drilling a hole in your sheet metal or having a sticky coolant covered hose inside the machine
John, have an idea. Don't know if it's a good one but if you can make a simple gizmo that you can replace the tip that allows you to turn the tip while heating. Gotta be a simple solution that maybe could be sold on the side. Don't know what you could come up with though.
For the Safety Shutoff you should look into something like a Liquiphant, like Endress+Hauser Vibronik Series and use the Normaly Closed contact of that for Wire-break proofnes. It is way more pain to mob the 500 Litres of the floor than to save a few pennies.
If you want to avoid flooding, why not just have an overflow pipe at the top of the IBC that is connected to the drain? Then when your solenoids fail open you still won’t flood. If you want to be fancy, put a tundish in the overflow so you can see if it is flowing.
One of the nice things about hurcos is they come with washdown guns on them. Our 2005 had the hole for the washdown gun to live in but our 2014 doesn't.
Some thoughts: I agree with another that recommended diversity in the valve types for the fill system. Solenoid valves that remain open most of the time aren't likely to fully close. If it were me, I would install a spring-return Belimo full-port ball valve for the high limit shutoff valve. There are other manufacturers of fail-safe ball valves. I would have used 24 volt wiring for the controls for the water system instead of 120V for safety. I would install a timer to automatically turn on the system during work hours, or interlock with the lighting circuit if your hours aren't consistent. DIN rail is cheap. don't print it. We have a large RO tank at work and had to install a small recirc pump and UV sterilizer to keep it from going fuzzy. Since the RO removes chlorine there will no longer be any antimicrobial protection in the water. There should be a weight scale or float for the coolant drum with a light or alarm to indicate that the coolant is out.
12:39 Achievement unlocked: TURBO FLEX Awarded this day to John Grimsmo for standing not 3 feet away from a Kern and saying: "How do you accurately drill and tap angled holes?". kidding aside, nice work!!
If you don't forget to add the heat shrink at least once before splicing the wires you aren't having enough fun! ps. the wonky screws on the e-stop switch are to jam the switch housing against it's mounting face (the enclosure), that way you only need the single large mounting hole and not the two smaller ones where you put the bosses.
How do you monitor and adjust the dilution of the coolant in the machine ? It will get richer over time due to water evaporation and steaming when running . I had some bad times with di water . It is very aggressive . I found a parts washer in a paint line that the manager hooked up di without my knowledge . It was heated and ate the screens and pumps in a very short time . You are supposed to use it in a final halo rinse and dispose of it after usage . I never used it in a coolant application . We used a barrel and transported it to the machines . Had 12 mills and lathes . It was a pain the ass to fill it . You are on the right track . Over filled tanks do make for a bad day . Nice shop you have there young man . Thanks for sharing .
Are you using a refractometer to measure the actual coolant concentration? What we've noticed in our shop is that the water tends to evaporate quicker then the coolant so your machine might say the water/coolant level is low but if you're adding coolant and water together at the same concentration all the time you might end up running too high of a coolant concentration. Especially notice this on hot summer days, the water will evaporate leaving the coolant behind. We are always checking our coolant concentration with a refractometer to make sure we are running where we should be. Second, on the expandable wire sleeve, hit the end where you cut it with the lighter before running the wire through it and you'll prevent it from fraying! Other then that keep up the good work.
For some ideas on automation you should look at components from the Carwash industry and the reef keeping industry. Tons of chemical mixing solutions and auto top off with fail safes
Is there any route for the long run over the ceiling can recirculate or is it just 'it gets used often enough that it wouldn't be a problem' - I'd wonder if the oil could stratify out in the lines.
Hi Just a thought, do you risk separating coolant especially as it climbs walls and stands for a prolonged time, I would suggest a flow circuit (loop), a constant flow that gets tapped into as you draw, the coolant would then remain at an optimal mix? TIM
Do you have an issue with foaming in your machines after switching to RO water? I read that removing, reducing, or replacing the Ca in city water with Na through RO filtration could cause foaming to be worse. If so, do you add de-foamer and how much, how often?
Oh John 16:30-16:45 scares me. Please read or watch youtube vids about the basic of electronic. Never use a male connector for outputs. Not for solonoids with low voltage and ASOLUTELY NOT for Powering a Pump with high voltage. I really hope you have changed it troughout the 6 months. This is not full grimsmo! But men nice idea and grate work also with the 3d Prints.
What about using "Small ball float through Valves" with a bulkhead fitting into the tank? Maybe place the float level mid to low level in the coolant tank, so when the machine is using the coolant during running, the float level checks the "min level" still in the tank?
how will you maintain the brix in the tray , if it changes in the tray and you add 7 brix mixture from your top up system you wont maintain 7 brix in the tray no matter how hard you try, it will always dilute to less or greater than the level expected. Manually you can adjust for it by adding more or less raw coolant to the mix. How far did you get with your online sampling of brix level.
36:27 you don't have to remember tho. Just get an IF-valve. IE, a valve that has an electric dependency circuit governing it. When the conditions are met, it's open, when they are not, it's closed. Automate, automate, automate, small to medium sized shop 101.
If you used a hose real in place of the garden hose it would make it much nicer. I noticed you had the quick on the end of the hose & spray nozzle flipped around backwards, typically the female was on the hose so when the nozzle could be taken off & the water wouldn't keep running out.
While RO water is not as bad as DI, it is still pretty corrosive. I think you may have corrosion problems with those brass parts (the float switch bodies and the solenoid valves) in the RO part of the system. Should be no problem with the fittings after the coolant is mixed in, but keeping all wetted parts plastic in the RO portion of the system will save on failures in the future.
no metal parts should be used on any RO or DI or Distilled water installations . pure water is a solvent .all it wants to do is restore the balance through osmosis and will leach ions from the metal parts not goos for the water or system , yes I have worked on larger RO systems high pressure units , for humidity control in HVAC we used to call TDS as (Two Ducks Swimming ) keep it KISS else you get I D ten T errors ( it Joke )
A timed shutoff when you go fully automated would be even further redundancy. Find the max time the pump runs set the timer if it runs past that it shuts down. Timer resets to zero when the pump shuts off. Kinda like the pads on the floor but if it over flows away from them its no good. 👍
Hi John, Many thanks for sharing your knowledge on this important project. I just had one question. At 30.03 on your time line when you use your Mixtron unit to mix your coolant with the water to get the proper brix mixture. How are the water and coolant mixed to come out of the unit as a perfectly mixed solution ready for use in your machines? i.e. Does it do the necessary mixing like you used to do with the paint mixing paddle??? Thanks for any further information to clarify this. Great idea and GREAT!!! solution. Here is wishing you and your team a happy and prosperous New Year. John
How do you measure Brix of your coolant, so you can change concentration as well as volume? Why not have a small line and return to each device, you know the distance, size of pipe, so you can pull coolant to a remote monitoring point. Measure the brix. Now with the level in the tank, easy remote sensor, you can pump water and oil etc to the machine.
I still don't see why you wouldn't just buy 3 Will-Fill units (1 for each of: Kern, DMG, and Nakamura), and be done with it. Those units will automatically top up each machine's coolant to the exact concentricity required. You can connect them to the central RO tank, OR, sit a tank of concentrate + a smaller tank of RO next to each machine, and periodically top those up from a central RO tank. Will-Fills also monitor Temp, PH, Hardenss etc, and deliver all that info to you via an app. If it steps outside of a parameter, you get a notification.... Yes, they cost more $ to John than his system, but it would mean he'd be able to get back to running the Kern and getting Rasks into production quicker, and what is the cost of that? Huge i suspect... or at least far more than the cost of a few Will-Fill units.
I'd consider a small ball valve right at the gun, maybe before the QD. I'd be scared of accidentally wedging the trigger against something and making a big mess.
Why not monitor the time pump running time and only allow it to run for "x" time and if it exeeds that time error out. You could also measure flow to do the same thing. Status cts are pretty inexpensive.
PLEASE - Change the mains output connector in the box to a female one. Currently without the mating connector you have a possibility of mains sitting on those exposed pins. Other than that, an excellent project
Saw that too
I believe you would want the holy crap one to be Normally Closed (NC) and it needing to be constantly activated, that way in case of the regular one failing and a power failure, the oh crap one would fall closed (unless it doesn't auto-reset), also that way if a wire is somehow damaged, it will fail safe
I think it's implied that way - otherwise the tank would fill every time he powers it off with the estop button.
These longer format videos are so much better
Those angled holes on the switch block aren't meant to mate to matching holes in the panel. You're meant to just make the hole for the switch actuator and then use those screws to jack against the rear of the panel.
John I love the idea but when your coolant evaporates it's only losing the water, all the oil stays behind. If you just keep replenishing the tank with mixed coolant instead of water your tank concentration is just going to continuously climb regardless of the concentration you are adding
I think that's why he mentioned the need to adjust the mixer. I'm guessing a lot of the loss is through the mist and the associated mist removers.
John you are such an inspiration, I started my company about five years ago, and you were the one that made me believe it to be possible, success wasn't as quick as for the grimsmo brothers but for the first time this year, it seems we got something happening. Thank you for sharing this fascinating journey with us
" I can't drill and tap angled holes" - as he sits in front of a 5 axis machine ;)
The point of the angled threaded holes on the E Stop is that you don't need to thread anything on the body. you just print a hole for the E stop body and the screws you put in press into the print and secure the button with friction
New shop looks awesome. No trip hazards on the floor was brilliant.
One thing I recommend is labeling everything (~, pipes, circuits., etc) it will help in the day to day operation and it will pay off .
Another idea is to have all your processes written down, so you don't forget, or someone else doesn't have to find someone else in an emergency(~). (your forgetting what light did what on the green box prompted this) ;)
I've been watching you for a while, you've come a long way. keep up the great work.
Seems like something as simple as a toilet tank float switch type of system would be easy and cheap...the plumbing is a whole different issue, but keeping the coolant topped off should be quite easy perhaps?
I have that same setup for my house with the pump, but a larger high pressure membrane setup for the RO system. Works excellent! Have RO water out of every faucet in the house.
That looks like a great system. From my experience of dealing with those valves, they will clog up and the rubber will harden over time. Since you are never cycling the safety valve you won't know if it will actually work. Id suggest diversity in your valves and use something like one of the whole house shutoff valves which is an electric actuator on a ball valve that way it won't be affected by any minerals and doesn't continually use electricity to stay open. The have gotten very cheap now a days where as they used to be very expensive in the days of only process control people using them.
That solid state relay is going to melt itself through the enclosure. Solid state relays generally require heatsinking.
I wonder why he used solid state relays and not a ice cube relay......
Cool looking system A for effort but yeah you beat me to it. SSR voltage drop = heat gotta go somewhere. He may be able to raise them off on standoffs on an aluminum plate with some ventilation on the enclosure
Not generally. Some use modern mosfets with very low RDSon. I've a SSR mounted on plexiglass running 800W for hours on end.
Ok this is a fun one for me. I work with controls all the time, so seeing John get so excited about little things like Wago's is great.
I know many people will comment that, but when you add the 24/7 always on auto fill. You really should get rid of shark bite fittings. Permanent connections are the way to go.
Right now, with a hundred ball valves that are normally closed, the risk isn't that big, but as soon as all the valves are normally open, the risk is increasingly scary.
I helped set up a large mold shop starting in 1988, we had 15 cnc machines and half a dozen grinders. We got out coolant system from Master Chemicals. it consisted of two 200 gal tanks stacked one on top of the other, a water filter system and a yellow bellied sump sucker www.masterfluidsolutions.com/na/en-us/xybex/show-product-description.php?pid=YBSS . The coolant was removed from the machines and put into the top tank which had an oil skimmer, this was allowed to settle and skim. then it would be transferred t the lower tank, and topped up with water or more coolant to bring it to the proper percentage. This was then pumped into the clean side of the sump sucker and distributed to machines as needed. The biggest thing was to check the concentration in the coolant. Just topping it up with new coolant will eventually increase the concentration over time.
Awesome man, just a thought for the second safety flow switches. Maybe adding a bright light or buzzer sound so you guys know if the system is in the second safety flow switch/valve mode.
For the float valves on the machine for top up, you could probably get an output from the control to see when a cycle is running, so you only sample the float valve when the cycle has finished and 5 minutes had passed so levels have normalised. Nice little Arduino project right there.
Awesome system John, that’s the way to do it. One suggestion for the Coolant Gun; install a
small high pressure ball valve just before each gun and you eliminate the leaking at the gun.
As an extra you get spillage safety if a gun valve should fail!
Congrats on paying off the Mori! Keep getting them paid off 👊🏻
Awesome trick with the soldering iron! I just got into 3D printing and this opens up new things I can do.
Oh man. Great project. Glad I got to see that Grundfos pump - just what I need for my private water supply in the house. We have our water well and need this for keeping pressure up inside the house. Right now that's being run by a noisy compressor that kicks in every time we use the water, so I hope maybe this pump would be able to do that task - and a lot quieter.
@@cliveramsbotty6077 Absolutely - I already have an expansion tank installed :)
See me I would have just mounted some toilet tank valves in the machine sumps and had automatic level maintained but it seems that would not have made as fun a project. :-)
Those Wago connectors are cool but you could use DIN Rail connectors :)
You can add gas pump handles to every coolant tank. If your tank running low, just lock the handle in the open position and it will stop when it's full.
Automation is epic! Robotics is joyous! Slowly but surely you will get there, but it never seems fast enough!!! Now I think that I heard you mention the word Rask at least once! Speaking for most I am certain that more talk about it would be greatly appreciated! Thankyou!!!
I would add a waterlock before the mixatron. There are waterlocks where you can set the amount off fluid. This alows you to keep all the valves open and the hoses ready to go. If there is a spill, because of a pope breaking it is not more then the set amount.
Hi John! You could try Siemens E-Stop, buttons and lights. They are so much easier to mount, no tools needed just put the E-Stop through the hole and clip the backpiece on. Trust me if you use this once you don't want to mess around with anything other again.
beautiful build, its really inspiring and fun to follow along
Great idea with the coolant, especially if you could get it autonomous. So it fills the coolant if its low or changes the coolant percentage. Thats way to much work though. At my work we have a coolant mixer that goes into the 55 gallon and pumps water and coolant just from the water pressure. That goes into a 20 gallon tank with a house on a raised cart. We roll that cart to the machine and it gravity feeds water/ coolant into the machine.
I see a potential problem: keep fill hose SEPARATE from WASH DOWN !!!
(You get busy washing down........)!
it would be really cool to see the multiple mixatron setup, maybe mix the highest concentration needed from the start like now, and have a water mixatron on each machine to dilute it down to the correct level with a solenoid valve in each machine to cut it to the right level
Wouldn't it make more sense to have two central mixers and two coolant lines with different concentrations? With our old coolant we just had one coolant line and one water line, so you just messure the concentration and just switch to the line you need.
I got a Norseman and I love it, but I like the thought that buying your knives makes these videos possible
How do you justify the price tag for something that is just a knife?
@@AdrianTache I mean I don’t see that we should be putting a price limit on certain objects. Montblanc makes Pens for anywhere for a few hundred/thousand dollars, Rolex/Patek makes watches for thousands and essentially you will be just fine with a BIC pen and a Casio watch. I collect knives and maybe a few other things, and eventhough 1000$ for a knife is a lot, I don’t regret buying it because I know what went into making it. Maybe it’s not worth 1000$, maybe it is. But if your not really on a budget in that price range it is not so important weather it’s worth 800$ or 1000$ etc. If you are on a budget which most people will be when it comes to a 1000$ knife, then you will not get be getting great returns for your 1000$ Knife because essentially it will be doing the same thing cheaper knives can aswell. If your looking for something unique and love their designs and are not on a budget, their knives are a thing of beauty.
Hi John. Again a fantastic video. Only one thing that caught my attention. Never put more than one cable in each slot in the Wago connectors. You risk that only one of the cables is held firmly. Then it is better to make a short cable from one block to another if you have more than 5 cables. Best regards Thomas
If you flatten the green power led dome on the lube system, and hit it briefly with sand, you will be able to see it from more angles better.
You could add a float to each of your coolant sumps, and control a solenoid valve on each machine to prevent accidentally overfilling it when washing down stuff.
1. McMaster as mechanical float valve so no need for more wiring/complications.
2. If you fear of spills, have an arduino control the relays and time the daily fill up so that if let’s say it takes 1 minutes then if the pumps is going for 2 minutes due to failure it will shut off the pump. Then have a timed (X minutes) override button for coolant change on the controller.
3. I’m +1 on getting the Samsung SmartThings, my whole house as been running on SmartThings for 4 years and I love it. With good quality sensors and switch it runs great, plus with Webcore you can make you’re on easy automation. Right now Samsung as discontinued the making/selling of the hubs but it as been purchased by Aeotec and they’re currently available in Europe and are suppose to be here shortly. With SmartThings you could add water leak sensor at key points and control a relay box like the Zooz Z-Wave Plus S2 to shut off the system. You can even have remote controlled ball valve for emergency. Like the Dome Water Main Controller.
just a thought on the automation side of things, because I want such a system for our shop aswell:
put the height sensor at a level where it senses the 'machine on maximum' as its maximum.
Machine gets low will always be safe to top up, because it only fills to the 'machine on maximum'
Also from personal experience, i like the 'hose outside, hanging through the sheetmetal into the machine' more than the 'hanging inside the machine'- gun location.
I'm the kind of person who likes cleaning, but only with clean equipment. (I hate this greasy stuff which builds up on the gun in the machine)
Great progress btw, keep on going!
greatings from over the pond
I'm not sure how ur plumbing is all set up but you might need a hammer arrestor cez the solenoid shut off so fast it
John.. The angled screws on the Estop Sw are supposed to grip to the back of your panel behind the hole, in your case the green (they dont penetrte through the panel) They sandwhich the switch block between the button mount and the panel. Did you like the John ..... bit (I laugh evry time Jon Saunders tells you off on the podcasts). Im liking the work, good to see you are all well and business is still surviving.
Glad to see a new episode!
Just noticed the hose ends near quick coupler. Gates makes a heat shrink hose clamps that would be amazing for your application. No catching your hand on stainless hose clamp.
John, I know it might be a bit of an issue with how cold you get outside there, but the ultimate redundancy to mitigate a leak issue would be to put a nipple out of the side door high on the tank and run a hose from it to outside. That way, no matter how hard your system tries to overfill, it can't get to your floor. Project looks great man! Also, flip your quick connect. It looks like the incoming line has the male, and if you pop that collar there is going to flow until you cut off your pump and everything above your nozzle drains out.
Maybe for the nozzle drip you make where you rest it be where it can just drains down into the machine.
On the on machine floats, you don't need to have low, high, and danger levels, you just need a danger one and a set level one, the hysteresis of the switch keep the fluid where it needs to be. Otherwise, old toilet bowl style floats work damn well.
If you put a float valve in each machine's tank then you wouldn't be able to over-fill them. Run that to a ball valve. In the morning open the ball valve until the tank fills and the float valve closes, then close the ball valve so it doesn't overfill. Coolant for washdown could be taken from the machine's coolant pump with disrupting the level.
John, DIN rail is cheap. For as much as you use buy a couple sticks and forget waiting on a 3D print.
Nice molded plastic electronics boxes are a bit expensive but compared to maybe 24 hours of prints (or 48 if the first goes wrong), it's not that bad. They don't let you add logos but I bet you have stickers and a label maker.
A heat gun with a heat shrink nozzle will heat all the way around your wire, preventing lumpy wrinkled heat shrink and reducing the chance of overheating your wires. It might not work any better than a lighter but I think it is more consistent and you get to avoid an open flame in the shop. Open flame probably isn't a big safety risk in your new shop but in a cluttered space like your old shop (or my space), after using the right tool, I'm a heatgun fan.
I'm not a fan of your coolant gun setup. I think it would make more sense to run the guns off of the internal coolant pump so you can rinse off without overfilling and keep your fill system separate.
Projects like this are sometimes a great way to clear your head when you're having problems with another project. When I'm banging my head against the wall on one project I will often walk away, and spend a few hours / few days on something else. Then things seem to go more smooth when I come back to the issue that was frustrating me.
for the kern you can have a motorised ball valve, float switch and relay system to do autotop off. Oh you mention this at the end of the video
Where is your spring steel sheet for the PRUSA? You're printing directly on the heated plate which is a no-no. Love the DIY build :) well done. Also, on those heat-set inserts, you can use a small sheet of metal to push them flush against the surface and help them cool faster.
The coolant gun on our DMG-MORI has a magnet on the side of it so it just snaps to the side of the machine, seems like a much better idea than drilling a hole in your sheet metal or having a sticky coolant covered hose inside the machine
awesome, been looking forward to this. glad too see you back
John, have an idea. Don't know if it's a good one but if you can make a simple gizmo that you can replace the tip that allows you to turn the tip while heating. Gotta be a simple solution that maybe could be sold on the side. Don't know what you could come up with though.
For the Safety Shutoff you should look into something like a Liquiphant, like Endress+Hauser Vibronik Series and use the Normaly Closed contact of that for Wire-break proofnes. It is way more pain to mob the 500 Litres of the floor than to save a few pennies.
If you want to avoid flooding, why not just have an overflow pipe at the top of the IBC that is connected to the drain? Then when your solenoids fail open you still won’t flood. If you want to be fancy, put a tundish in the overflow so you can see if it is flowing.
One of the nice things about hurcos is they come with washdown guns on them. Our 2005 had the hole for the washdown gun to live in but our 2014 doesn't.
43:20 3D print a nozzle hanger/drip catcher, no rag needed
Some thoughts:
I agree with another that recommended diversity in the valve types for the fill system. Solenoid valves that remain open most of the time aren't likely to fully close. If it were me, I would install a spring-return Belimo full-port ball valve for the high limit shutoff valve. There are other manufacturers of fail-safe ball valves.
I would have used 24 volt wiring for the controls for the water system instead of 120V for safety. I would install a timer to automatically turn on the system during work hours, or interlock with the lighting circuit if your hours aren't consistent.
DIN rail is cheap. don't print it.
We have a large RO tank at work and had to install a small recirc pump and UV sterilizer to keep it from going fuzzy. Since the RO removes chlorine there will no longer be any antimicrobial protection in the water.
There should be a weight scale or float for the coolant drum with a light or alarm to indicate that the coolant is out.
12:39
Achievement unlocked: TURBO FLEX
Awarded this day to John Grimsmo for standing not 3 feet away from a Kern and saying: "How do you accurately drill and tap angled holes?".
kidding aside, nice work!!
I thought almost exactly the same thing lol "how do you accurately drill angled holes" said no experienced machinist ever
Haha, and even better is the part he’s threading into is 3D printed with inserts. Could have just modeled and printed the holes that way.
@@haydenmciver6945 not really. The inserts are far better if you have to take screws in and out.
If you don't forget to add the heat shrink at least once before splicing the wires you aren't having enough fun! ps. the wonky screws on the e-stop switch are to jam the switch housing against it's mounting face (the enclosure), that way you only need the single large mounting hole and not the two smaller ones where you put the bosses.
Hi, love your videos. Gives me inspiration and different mental way to make things for my work ! For inserts you could use cheap helicoil !
How do you monitor and adjust the dilution of the coolant in the machine ? It will get richer over time due to water evaporation and steaming when running . I had some bad times with di water . It is very aggressive . I found a parts washer in a paint line that the manager hooked up di without my knowledge . It was heated and ate the screens and pumps in a very short time . You are supposed to use it in a final halo rinse and dispose of it after usage . I never used it in a coolant application . We used a barrel and transported it to the machines . Had 12 mills and lathes . It was a pain the ass to fill it . You are on the right track . Over filled tanks do make for a bad day . Nice shop you have there young man . Thanks for sharing .
Thanks for sharing this valuable information, John. thanks 😍
Thanks for doing a longer video ♥️♥️♥️
Nice to see u back
Are you using a refractometer to measure the actual coolant concentration? What we've noticed in our shop is that the water tends to evaporate quicker then the coolant so your machine might say the water/coolant level is low but if you're adding coolant and water together at the same concentration all the time you might end up running too high of a coolant concentration. Especially notice this on hot summer days, the water will evaporate leaving the coolant behind. We are always checking our coolant concentration with a refractometer to make sure we are running where we should be. Second, on the expandable wire sleeve, hit the end where you cut it with the lighter before running the wire through it and you'll prevent it from fraying! Other then that keep up the good work.
For some ideas on automation you should look at components from the Carwash industry and the reef keeping industry. Tons of chemical mixing solutions and auto top off with fail safes
Those estops have those two positions so that your safety circuit is dual channel. It's not intended to be run as a single channel switch.
you should probably label the valves
A new Grimsmo video! Heck yes! Miss the videos brother!
Is there any route for the long run over the ceiling can recirculate or is it just 'it gets used often enough that it wouldn't be a problem' - I'd wonder if the oil could stratify out in the lines.
Hi
Just a thought, do you risk separating coolant especially as it climbs walls and stands for a prolonged time, I would suggest a flow circuit (loop), a constant flow that gets tapped into as you draw, the coolant would then remain at an optimal mix?
TIM
Yes!!! New Video!!! Congrats on owning Mori!
Do you have an issue with foaming in your machines after switching to RO water? I read that removing, reducing, or replacing the Ca in city water with Na through RO filtration could cause foaming to be worse. If so, do you add de-foamer and how much, how often?
Oh John 16:30-16:45 scares me. Please read or watch youtube vids about the basic of electronic. Never use a male connector for outputs. Not for solonoids with low voltage and ASOLUTELY NOT for Powering a Pump with high voltage. I really hope you have changed it troughout the 6 months. This is not full grimsmo!
But men nice idea and grate work also with the 3d Prints.
What about using "Small ball float through Valves" with a bulkhead fitting into the tank? Maybe place the float level mid to low level in the coolant tank, so when the machine is using the coolant during running, the float level checks the "min level" still in the tank?
Don´t you risk overfilling the tank in the machine if you use the coolant to clean the machine on a regular basis?
In my mill main coolant pomp is also for the washing hose so its from the same tank and washing hose hang inside of machine
Yeah, the way down house doesn't introduce new water. That wouldn't work because it would ruin the coolant concentration.
how will you maintain the brix in the tray , if it changes in the tray and you add 7 brix mixture from your top up system you wont maintain 7 brix in the tray no matter how hard you try, it will always dilute to less or greater than the level expected. Manually you can adjust for it by adding more or less raw coolant to the mix. How far did you get with your online sampling of brix level.
Add a servo to the mixotron for auto adjustment on the fly, that's your awnser to keeping it simple
Nice little projects
Do the floats have a hysteresis?
Interesting video, being a industrial processes programmer. I would have put a plc in it.
36:27 you don't have to remember tho. Just get an IF-valve. IE, a valve that has an electric dependency circuit governing it. When the conditions are met, it's open, when they are not, it's closed. Automate, automate, automate, small to medium sized shop 101.
He talked about automating it for 20 minutes.
Get a set of wood burning tips that fit your iron, those are infinitely more useful for plastics manipulations than the standard iron.
With the techflex stuff you can stop it fraying by melting the ends on the barrel pf a soldering iron
If you used a hose real in place of the garden hose it would make it much nicer. I noticed you had the quick on the end of the hose & spray nozzle flipped around backwards, typically the female was on the hose so when the nozzle could be taken off & the water wouldn't keep running out.
Grimsmo knives: can afford multiple cnc machines, but not a tripod :P
So cool. Do you have a way to check the mixture or take a sample, and does the Mixtron tell you if the coolant is low?
While RO water is not as bad as DI, it is still pretty corrosive. I think you may have corrosion problems with those brass parts (the float switch bodies and the solenoid valves) in the RO part of the system. Should be no problem with the fittings after the coolant is mixed in, but keeping all wetted parts plastic in the RO portion of the system will save on failures in the future.
no metal parts should be used on any RO or DI or Distilled water installations . pure water is a solvent .all it wants to do is restore the balance through osmosis and will leach ions from the metal parts not goos for the water or system , yes I have worked on larger RO systems high pressure units , for humidity control in HVAC we used to call TDS as (Two Ducks Swimming ) keep it KISS else you get I D ten T errors ( it Joke )
A timed shutoff when you go fully automated would be even further redundancy. Find the max time the pump runs set the timer if it runs past that it shuts down. Timer resets to zero when the pump shuts off. Kinda like the pads on the floor but if it over flows away from them its no good. 👍
Way is the quick connect on the gun side? The quick connect should be on the hoes not the gun. If it pops off you’ll have coolant all over the floor.
14:04 Wait a second! Do you print directly on the Prusa headbed without a spring steel sheet or something in between? Never saw that before!
He's got a MK2, before the spring steel beds.
Hi John,
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge on this important project.
I just had one question.
At 30.03 on your time line when you use your Mixtron unit to mix your coolant with the water to get the proper brix mixture. How are the water and coolant mixed to come out of the unit as a perfectly mixed solution ready for use in your machines? i.e. Does it do the necessary mixing like you used to do with the paint mixing paddle???
Thanks for any further information to clarify this.
Great idea and GREAT!!! solution. Here is wishing you and your team a happy and prosperous New Year.
John
Great video.
How do you measure Brix of your coolant, so you can change concentration as well as volume?
Why not have a small line and return to each device, you know the distance, size of pipe, so you can pull coolant to a remote monitoring point. Measure the brix.
Now with the level in the tank, easy remote sensor, you can pump water and oil etc to the machine.
Use a drop down reel, don’t have to worry about coiling up the hose
Runoff pumps on machines with float proxy switches would be killer to protect against spills
Have them run back to source or to possible drain source that will stop entire system cutting of all sources
I still don't see why you wouldn't just buy 3 Will-Fill units (1 for each of: Kern, DMG, and Nakamura), and be done with it. Those units will automatically top up each machine's coolant to the exact concentricity required. You can connect them to the central RO tank, OR, sit a tank of concentrate + a smaller tank of RO next to each machine, and periodically top those up from a central RO tank.
Will-Fills also monitor Temp, PH, Hardenss etc, and deliver all that info to you via an app. If it steps outside of a parameter, you get a notification....
Yes, they cost more $ to John than his system, but it would mean he'd be able to get back to running the Kern and getting Rasks into production quicker, and what is the cost of that? Huge i suspect... or at least far more than the cost of a few Will-Fill units.
I'd consider a small ball valve right at the gun, maybe before the QD. I'd be scared of accidentally wedging the trigger against something and making a big mess.
Why not monitor the time pump running time and only allow it to run for "x" time and if it exeeds that time error out. You could also measure flow to do the same thing. Status cts are pretty inexpensive.
Don't the machines have floats and a way to communicate with the machine to call for more coolant?
Question what happens when the tank of coolant empties. Does the system pump only water or does the mixatron turn off the system.
Do you have any recommendations on learning industrial automation? How to design the system and circuitry.