The super soldier serum also affects the sanity of a man. Steve Rogers is just a really good man naturally. I think if Steve Rogers got the goblin serum, he would still be a good man.
@@zionaleem8795 The original super soldier serum doesn't really affect the sanity of a man. What it does as Erskine said, is it pulls what is already inside them out even more. Good becomes great, bad becomes worse.
Yeah it feels like NWH Goblin displayed much bigger feats of strentgh and durability in his fights with Spiderman than Cap. Cap balances his weaknesses with his skill and shield.
I'd agree with others here. The Goblin's serum is *stronger* -- but it's flawed, because it sends him insane. So Steve's serum is technically *better* because it works like it's supposed to.
I thought that the original super serum amplified the persons personality and that’s why Steve became SO righteous on his path for good. John walker took that shit too and his ass went crazy in the other direction cause he was flawed to begin with 😂 that being said I think you’re right, goblin serum stronger but super soldier serum (for the most part) keeps yo brain intact
Personally I think both serums cause insanity. It’s why Erskin was so cautious about who he gave it to and why Steve was selected. Steve is special. It’s not the serum that allows him to wield Mjollnir. It’s because Steve is special.
@@JEM-wj2oc Yeah. You're right. But Steve's serum still technically *works* the way Erskin intended it to work, i.e. it amplifies all of a person's traits. It isn't flawed. Giving it to a "good man" is simply a requirement if you want the best possible outcome. (Read the label before use! lol)
It's pretty clear that Goblin is far stronger. The real drawback is that it drives him insane. The greatest feat of strength isn't actually the cable car, but being able to match Spider-Man in strength. The very same Spider-Man who stopped a speeding train, full of passengers.
IIRC spiderman canonically has super strength that requires him not to be stronger, but weaker so that he wont kill the ones he punches. He's controlling the force of his fist to not kill, so it's possible to assume that Peter in spiderman 1 was stronger in hitting but less dextrous or refined. Goblin being able to tank hits and send him flying is a massively impressive feat
@@xpflowexclusive4313 except the goblin got the upper hand in other fights, and Spidey came out on top due to Spider Sense, speed, agility, and use of webbing. Goblin is also one of the only movie villains from that eara to tear through Spider-Man's webbing. And in the first first encounter, goblin matched Spider-Man in strength perfectly. Petter only won due to his resourcefulness
I have no doubt that Green Goblin is extremely agile and can perform any physical feed that Steve Rogers can. The reason he doesn't, is because of his mindset. He's a predator. An unapologetic force of nature that doesn't need to dodge or attack with the element of surprise. He wants you to know he's better than you. It's a purely different psychological state than Cap.
I think it’s really mostly about the technology they had when making the first movie and the suit he had to wear they just didn’t make him agile and movable
You’ll find most predators in the wild actually dodge or attack with the element of surprise the only animal that doesn’t is bears but that’s because theyre bears big cats are the best example of predators that are agile strong and sneaky he’s not a predator he’s just bat shit
@@darkdog42 So true. Animals that are worried about their own preservation aren't as dangerous as those reckless enough to not avoid harm. He is bat shit and that makes him far more unpredictable.
When it comes to Harry it's also likely that he didn't go insane due to pure chance. In the first movie its stated that only one in (if I'm remembering correctly) 13 of the animal subjects went insane. Since we can assume that the same idea carries over to human subjects we can assume Harry got the luck of the draw.
@@dolphin-studio In the comics it was, but it's never really specified if that was the case in the movies. Unless something official is stated, DrXshock's theory may be the most plausible.
@@dolphin-studio bruh the Green Goblin serum is Norman Osborn's life-long work. you think a college kid even able to comprehend the formula? even Peter Parker will have to take a second to think, let alone fucking Harry Osborn lmao. and that's the comics, Harry is even worse in the movies. in the Raimi trilogy he's portrayed as a soyboy/rich kid for 2 out the 3 films.
@@Bruh-zu5pl yeah I know. But also to have the strength to put that much force in that tackle to go through the majority of that building is crazy. If gravity was the biggest player in that fight and less on normans strength they never would have made it past the first few floors. They wouldn’t have enough velocity to continue to fall with that speed and power to go through those floors with gravity alone. Yes gravity did play a big part but they would have never made it that far down the building just on gravity. Norman had to be putting a lot of power/force behind that tackle to go through that many floors. So yes gravity did help. But it is still a huge feat of strength for Norman.
“They show minimal agility throughout the course of the Raimi trilogy” ehhh green goblin was flipping around and dodging punches like a badass in the first films final fight. And about the strength category I think being able to smash yourself from the top of a skyscraper to the bottem in like 5 seconds is a pretty decent feat.
I was hoping someone would point this out....I hated to be all nit-pickey but let's call a spade a spade, Goblin was beating Tobey's ass mercilessly at the end. He's also pretty strategic all things considered!
@@rexsalazar3302 The amount of force that can be withstood by vibranium is still rather limited, as shown in Black Panther with how his suit eventually became overrun by force and energy. Given how Goblin possesses building-destroying missiles and bombs, as well as he himself being capable of smashing through several floors of an apartment complex in mere seconds, as well as overpower Tom’s Peter who effortlessly caught a punch from Bucky’s metal arm, I’d say Norman could keep up pretty well with the shield (maybe unless it comes down to hand-to-hand combat).
@@andrevaughn6980 Yeah, it’s a bit annoying with how often people tend to overlook Norman’s intelligence even when under the influence of the Goblin. He knows his stuff, with words like: “But the one thing they like more than a hero, is to see a hero fall, fail, die trying. Inspite of everything you’ve done, eventually, they will hate you. Why bother?” or: “The cunning warrior attacks neither mind nor body.” he’s a cunning strategist, much like the Joker. Moreso twisted upon his self-foresights and stances of the way he views the world and how to handle power in opposition to how Spider-Man views great power.
@@dirtyfighters7751 the black panther suit is clearly not only made with vibranium. Also, captain America sheild can absorb all the shock from the 3 strikes of a bloodlusted Thanos. While a Rhino strike is capable of harming Tchalla in his suit. Though I believe goblin can defeat him. Iron Man and spiderman both have disarmed him of his shield before. Which leads me to believe so can green goblin.
But Erskine's formula turned a frail skinny guy into a beefy super strength hunk. I'm sure regular geriatric Norman was still stronger than skinny Steve
Also Norman was significantly older than Steve when he was infused. Also one should not underestimate the "crazy" when considering strength. You can have all the muscle in the world but if not all the fibers are firing they won't be as strong as they could be. That's why we have colloquial terms like crack-head strength and roid-rage allowing people to do insane feats. I think Harry not going crazy actually made him weaker and less reactive but he made up for it by being younger than Norman putting him at a much higher baseline to build on top of. I think in a 1v1 a crazy Harry would be evenly matched by Steve but Harry would take the win by playing dirty
@@atrumluminarium think he’s trying to say that “crack-head strength” and “roid-rage” are terms used by black ppl🤨 well, I don’t live in America so I wouldn’t know lol
I'm fairly certain goblin is much stronger at the cost of sanity, while caps serum sacrificed some strength in order to iron out the downsides of the serum. Other than that, spider man is much stronger than cap, and goblin is pretty well scaled to spideys strength level.
@@jarektempleton2104 Spider man is usually stronger than cap in the comics, also in spider man homecoming, he holds a huge ship together that got cut in half
@Victor Nieves I more so meant that his level of endurance and physical strength is made to be more of an actual threat to spider man, not that he is as strong. I feel that if Cap fought Goblin, Cap would win because he is very experienced in fighting, whereas Goblin is just kind of a guy who's really strong. Could Goblin hurt Cap? I think so, if Cap got sloppy enough to take a few hits. But in the end I think Cap would come out on top. Just because Goblin is stronger and has better technology doesn't necessarily mean he wins.
@Victor Nieves he does in strength, you also have to take into account parkers speed and reflexes which is a little superior than goblins, and parkers agility is greatly superior to Norman.
When it comes to brute strength and hitting force, goblin in no way home seemed to use much greater force then in the raimi movie. He swung Peter through tempered glass like it was nothing and slammed him through multiple floors with a single strike. Personally I think goblin would've gave cap a run for his money, possibly could have even beaten him out right
Something to note however is that during the events of Civil War, Tony Stark states that Cap was pulling his punches against Peter and could have defeated him easily. I think the line is "listen kid if cap wanted to lay you out he could have at any point". Goblin physically overpowering Spiderman doesn't necessarily mean anything if cap is theoretically capable of the same thing.
@@cookieelement3467 your leaving out the fact that spidey had barely any experience in combat when He fought cap and tony said that to him. He has literally “fought an alien in earth and in space” now. “Ya he was purple” lmao
@@manuelcarrillo3028 I don't think fighting aliens in space once clears the experience gap between him and cap. He is more experienced now but that doesn't magically make him far stronger in every way.
Here’s the kicker, technically what they were able to do with goblin in no way home is actually supposed to be the level he was on in the Remy films. Unfortunately we couldn’t get that epic action. We want it in the Remy films because technology was just not up to par, at the time. I’ve heard various TH-cam sources state that Tobey Maguire Spiderman is weaker than Tom Holland‘s, even though that has been invalidated in no way home. While Peter Tobeys Peter was barely struggling to stop Tom Holland from killing the goblin. They could be just because he’s gotten older and has become stronger and faster overtime. Something tells me they’re using buffed stats in no way home to significantly imply these are the feats of strength that Spiderman & Goblin were capable of back in the day.
The issue with that statement is who it's coming from cookie. Not only does Tony not know Peter's upper limits like he does cap since he's worked with steve longer, but we even see that the AI Tony designed for Peter's suit claim he wouldn't survive a fall from the Washington monument. Only for peter to survive a plane crash from a equal, if not greater, height in the film.
fr Peter got his shit absolutely rocked in the first fight only reason cap was able to take on spiderman is because Peter was standing under the tunnel
@@megatronusorionpax4900 I dont think he would be able to take out raimi spider man though. cap wouldnt lose, but raimi spider man is far too durable for cap to technically beat him
The Goblin Serum is stronger than the Super Soldier Serum. But Cap's serum was perfect and stable. Norman's serum mind were fracture but his strength match Spider-Man. I shudder to think if John Walker took The Goblin Serum!
Kicks = Cap Punches and Throws = Gobby Sidenote: Anyone else notice how Osborn's serum mirrors Erskine's in terms of the neurological and psychological affects? "The serum amplifies everything within. Good, becomes great. Bad, becomes worse."
also explains why Harry doesnt get the goblin persona in SM3 he gets the upgraded equipment ,the goblin serum ,he gets hallucinations of his dad/goblin ,but he himself doesnt become crazy ,he's all about vengeance.... MCU really fixed lots of plotholes ,i dont have a problem anymore with harry not having helmet ,cuz he is another character! ,when you see dafoe in NWH without the helmet you see that he is undoubtly the only true goblin.
We gonna just ignore that in the first spider man, the scientist says that it’s an 800% in strength and durability while it increases aggression as well, so it’s not like erskines serum in the sense that it amplifies everything. With erskines serum it amplified an asthmatic kid hardly capable of lifting his own body weight of around 120lbs to running as fast as the speed limit in what looks like the downtown of the city which would be around 30mph and being able to exert 3000lbs of force AGAINST a helicopter back to the helipad, that is more than an 800% increase. So anything that shows the goblins strength surpassing the multiplier of erskines serum is the goblin suit, in the amazing Spider-Man the goblin suit actually has a description of it granting healing abilities and strength (however I am stretching it with merging two different continuities of the Spider-Man lore, so take that as you will) but either way there’s no argument against statements from the series respectively
@@Bruh-zu5pl You know this guy said nothing about who was stronger between the 2, you got yourself involved into so many arguments that you continued them in a comment that didn't even involve that subject
In the first movie on the news paper Norman reads, it does call it the super soldier program. So it is actually the super soldier formula of that universe.
i think the og cap serum was perfect and everything else was close to near perfect and the goblin serum almost near perfect with the Dr Osbourne/Mr goblin side effect which was prob caused from the stress of government funding wanting a closer deadline before full human trials
Nice Dr Jekyll reference but when you say Mr. Goblin, I imagine comic accurate green goblin wearing a Tom Ford suit and tie with the green face and purple wizard hat, ordering truffle and fish at a restaurant. He's probably wearing reading glasses too
Fun fact: Due to Captain Americas super soldier serum his metabolism became so fast that he could burn nearly 8,000 calories in a day when he's resting. So he would need to eat on average around 10,500 calories a day.
It's great because with the acknowledging Maguire and Garfield in the M.C.U. technically Spider-Man is the one who started the franchise and not Iron Man seen as his movies came out from 2002. Thank god for the Madness of the Multiverse, which also happens to be my most anticipated movie this year!! 😁
3:51 Cap was just barely holding up. It was clear weight like that is far out of his reach. Whereas guys like Spider-Man and Green Goblin could effortlessly carry that weight above their heads. The cable car goblin is effortlessly holding singlehandedly weighs around 12 - 15 tons. And he had zero signs of strain. So Steve just barely able to hold up 10 tons vs Green Goblin who effortlessly supports 12+ tons singlehandedly already shows Goblin is superior in strength. It's not like Steve could lift a bus over his head like Spider-Man could. You'd be delusional to believe Steve could bench press the weight of a bus. Also, Tobey's Spider-Man also supported the cable car weight singlehandedly as well, yet the Goblin could still overpower him. So Goblin > Cap
I’m pretty exited to see not just the new MCU spiderman 4 but a new trilogy of spiderman movies and hopefully including the Andrew Garfield spiderman and Toby Maguire. I really wanna see where they’re gonna go from after no way home now that venom is in the MCU. I hope we don’t get another spiderman 3 but I would like to see little nods, like maybe have Tom just dance for a bit lol.
I really REALLY hope that MCU Venom is much different than the stupid Sony jokester Venom. Plus Sony’s Carnage is already dead so Andrew’s Spider-Man won’t even have a Carnage to fight now because Sony wants to make sub-par movies.
Captain America's Super Soldier serum was more stable and had less side effect on the subjects mind Green Goblin's serum was unstable granting him great strength but at the cost of his mental stability so its a trade off of sorts
If you really think about it green goblin is essentially a weaker hulk. The hulk also received a super soldier serum, and is the strongest example of the serum, but at the cost of, well, turning into the hulk. Goblin is essentially Norman’s hulk, with less variance, as goblin still maintains his intelligence, while hulk basically trades his intelligence for extra strength, just being a big rage smash monster.
A note real quick my dude... you mentioned at around 3 min talking about the goblin that "it's unknown how much the suit is aiding his strength". In spiderman 1, it's implied the suit doesn't actually give ANY strength at all and the suit is built entirely for protection and durability. The suit doesn't have any mechanisms really that would increase his strength (other than gadget controls), but the suit CAN take one hell of a beating. I don't know what the suit is made of, but it's practically unbreakable in the film (Although norman himself smashed the helmet in NWH with a rock)
The Goblin serum has the capability to drive the user insane and I wonder if the insanity bestows a mind over matter kind of durability...where Norman obviously gets hit but his mind is so far gone the pain doesn't register.
Like the Joker he's dangerously insane with a god complex when batman beats the chap out of the Joker breaking bones the joke is just laughing at him because he's crazy just like Norman that's why he was laughing like that
Yes this true this the same case with the Joker in the Dark knight when he his laughing while Batman is decking him in the jaw in the interrogation room. It is the insanity which causes them to be ignorant to pain and give them complete pain tolerance or high tolerance.
There is only only two things missing and that is backgrounds and affiliations because those also effect their fighting styles. Hopefully Black Cat can mend Peter's heart in TASM3
That's not how it worked the reason why Steve Rogers is so special is because he was incorruptible the super soldier formula did the same thing the goblin formula did they drove the person who took it mad it might even be the same formula that's what made Steve Rogers special.
@@TheRealMRGG85 did you see the falcon show? There super soliders didn't go crazy at all. They might very gotten drunk with power but again nothing like norman
@@TheRealMRGG85 you guy's are literally comparing 2 different serums. Also wym barely cannon? The events in the shows directly effect and lead into movies. The Falcon show literally leads into the next Captain America movie. Loki started in a movie. How's it barely cannon, when marvel has said they're 100% cannon tf
spider man is stronger then cap for sure, but like ironman said in spiderman homecoming, cap in a 1v1 fight would lay spiderman dawn if he would. Thats how it is in the movies
The physical effects of the serum have been duplicated and even surpassed in the comics but due to Steve's personality he has been the best super soldier.
The goblins strength rivals or is slightly greater than that of Spider-Man. Compared to captain America it’s the same as Spider-Man to a normal man. Spider-Man can pick up a bus. Cap couldn’t pickup a small smart car.
If you also want to count the comics and that versions being Goblin where he gots stabbed by his glider he actually lived because of his healing Factor kicking in
See this is how I thought they were going to get the Green Goblin in the MCU before they gave us "No Way Home". With Norman Osborn and Oscorp being one of many to try and replicate the original Super Soldier Serum. It's just like in the Ultimate Comics with everyone and their grandma trying to bottle lightning in order to make it strike twice to create their own Super Solider. Most of the heroes and villains from that universe were given powers in an attempt to create the next Captain America. Which is one to the many ideas borrowed from the universe and brought into the MCU. Even in the first Avengers movie, they talked about Bruce Banner becoming The Hulk by attempting to replicate the original serum using gamma radiation, instead of it being just some random accident. And if they had introduced the Green Goblin into the MCU that way, I would've thought Oscorp would've been the closest to replicating the original serum, the problem was someone like Norman Osborn taking it for himself. Like Erskine told Steve in Captain America: The First Avenger, The serum enhances everything that's already inside a person; "Good become great, bad becomes worse". And we already know from the comics that Norman Osborn was a bad guy and an enemy to Spider-Man before he even became the Goblin. If Norman was already bad and slightly mentally unstable before taking the serum, than taking it after would've made him even worse and a full blown psychopath, just like in the first Spider-Man movie. And since I mentioned the Ultimate comics, I actually thought that was the version of the Goblin that we were going to get in the MCU. The one that looks like a demonic fireball-throwing version of the Hulk. We never did learn what happened to all those vials of Bruce's blood that Stern made from The Incredible Hulk movie, just the one that turned Emil Blonski into Abomination. I could total see Norman Osborn getting his hands on one of those vials and altering it to try and figure out the serum's formula. He would've definitely been a game changer from the other Green Goblins we got in the Sam Raimi and Mark Webb films.
Something that isn’t mentioned is that Steve continued to train into his prime. In winter soldier, he’s seen running and boxing. We can assume he probably lifted weights too. Green goblins baseline at 40+ years of age being compared to prime Steve shows how much stronger the goblin serum is It’s like golden freiza. Freiza was always strong, but after training he could go toe to toe with gods. Imagine a green goblin with a 30 lbs of more muscle
I'd be confident in saying GG is stronger. Cap was near the same as Bucky, Tom SM could easily catch a punch from Bucky. GG almost beat the shit out of that SM, he also tore away Tobey's orgnaic web which would be same as spider-web but thicker, literally a metal cord that is 5 times stronger than steel
He caught a punch doesn’t mean he stronger then Bucky he caught and Bucky put his arm down cause he was supposed he was a kids it wasn’t a struggle Also SM webbed captain Erica arms twice and he just overpowered Spider-Man to snatch him him closer
To be fair, he fought symbiote amped Spider-Man 3 grown man Spidey compared to Norman who fought a weaker, inexperienced, fresh out of high school ‘normal’ Spidey, so it’s really hard to tell. Harry not instantly losing might really be a feat
No, Harry took a FULL dosage of the goblin formula while Norman only took half. This is further supported by Harry just having straight up far better feats than his father.
I feel like from a writers perspective it makes sense the Goblin serum is stronger with the caveat that it makes the person insane or borderline insane. As Steve Rogers didn’t have any side effects besides the whole “unable to get drunk” thing. That might be a good or bad thing though depending on the person. So we can assume that’s most likely the limit(or very close to it) of how much an individual can be improved without any seriously negative side effects because of how “pure” the serum he took was.
I also really like this cause it seems to hold up in other MCU examples. 1# Hulk is another SuperSoldier attempt gone wrong, and it causes massive split personality. 2# Pym Particles can enhance your strength and durability relative to size, but long term exposure again causes psychosis and instability. 3# Thor and Spider-Man’s physiology seems to be main exceptions, with nearly hulk levels of strength and durability without any mental or physical consequences. 4# John Walker and Kilmonger have the basic SuperSoldier benefits, but their preexisting traumas are exasperated by their new power. Basically, if you start with the most mentally stable person possible, Steve Rogers is the most you can boost them without inflicting a severe cost.
@@benjeffries2610 I feel like Thor and Peter makes sense. Because Thor despite his human appearance is considered a God because he lives and has lived for thousands of years, and also is physically different from a human at least internally, or even the asguardian race is enhanced with magic, or maybe even both. Spider-Man wasn’t enhanced with any drug and had his physiology along with genetics changed directly from the spider bite. Where most other serums enhance the human body without changing the genetics much or at all. Indicating the changes without the bad side effects is specifically because of his genetics changing in such a way to allow it.
It was always my headcannon that Harry perfected the Goblin formula and made a stronger version which is why he didn’t go insane and could somewhat fight black suit Spider-Man and even perception blitz Peter in the cafe scene if you take that seriously.
Tobey Maguire’s Spider-Man is the strongest spider and the way he stopped Peters punch as well as taking a beating from Tom Holland’s spider show great strength Green Goblin is stronger than Captain America yet not as fast or skilled as well as having immense resistance because of Norman’s psychosis
They are the same in strength. The three of them are equal, because they are the same person just from diferent universes. Toby could stop tom because he can match his strength thats all. Toby stopped a train with alot of effot, Tom holded a ship.
@@DAVISITHO1520 the older Peter is the stronger yet more resistant they’re strength is measured by potential tobey is the oldest that makes him the strongest they all have potential but when you really crack down to facts it’s by their belief and will power to overcome such strength
@@dolphin-studio first you have to prove that Peter is faster than CA in order for it to even be significant stating that for Goblin reacted to Peter, ya know? Cap routinely reacts to bullets, repulsar fire, presumably arrows, scaling to BP reacting to arrows which wouldn’t really even matter because of all the other things he’s reacted to.
Its also a good idea to mention that Goblin is far beyond his physical prime. So this would be notably weaker than what he could have been when he was younger or if it was given to an athlete or so on
The Goblin would Beat Captain America for these reasons 1. He is insane and a Genius at the same time. His mind will work in more dark and intricate ways than Cap to find an opening to exploit. 2. He has gadgets he can use as combos in a fight. If the Goblin found a way to integrate his sleeping gas in a combo then Cap may lose. 3. He has a Glider. Taking on the Goblin alone is never the case as his glider is always with him. Really, when fighting the Goblin, one is fighting two opponents. 4. His armour is stronger than Caps uniform. This means Cap is more likely to get injured than Norman. 5. Cap's shield. If Goblin could separate the shield from Cap, that would dramatically reduce his effectiveness as a combatant as Cap entire fighting style is engineered to accommodate the usage of his shield. Once the shield is out of the picture, Norman is only left to fight an exceptional unarmed combatant. That being said, referring to Reason 3, the Glider is like another opponent to opponents of the goblin. As the Glider is remotely controlled by Norman and may hold its own ai like features, an exceptional unarmed combatant such as Cap will be against another highly skilled unarmed combatant with blades coming out of his body, and an advanced flying apparatus with built in blades, bombs, machine guns, rockets, and disintegrating grenades.
This was a great video! One of my favorite Marvel heroes and one of my favorite Marvel villains. Great job with the amount of research that was put into the argumentive comparison. Loved to see more MCU being compared to past Marvel movies like the Spiderman movies in the 2000s.
You have to keep in mind the condition of each of them before they took the serum too, Norman was at least relatively healthy for his age, Steve was all kinds of messed up
Good stuff! The Goblin’s serum was insane! It would be great to also see a comparison of Black Panther’s elixir vs. Goblin’s serum. I’m not really talking about them in their suits, just the raw gains they get.
The Captain America serum makes sense to be the superior super soldier serum of the 2. I mean, as far as we know there’s only been 1 user of it and it physically changed the user’s body in beneficial ways. Even if you just took 1 part of the serum and say the mentality is altered, the Green Goblin serum has a negative effect by causing the user to go crazy while the Super soldier serum has a benefit of making your brain function better like a ram upgrade to a computer.
Goblin is far superior. Captain America is considered the peak of human condition base strength under a ton at 800lbs where as the goblin is considered superhuman base strength of 9 tons. Goblin serum also drives up users IQ to the point of insanity. And no, there are multiple variations of the super soldier serum. Black cat and sentry are two of them. The super soldier serum is also physical only so again, no, it does not enhance the brain in any way. Idk where you got your info
Goblin literally overpowered Rami Spider-Man who lifted a 100 ton + wall and stopped a train, and MCU Spider-Man who holds together ships, collapsing buildings and trolled super soldiers in his 1st appearance.
In spider man two. Spiderman lifted up a huge metal wall to stop Mj from being crushed and when when spiderman tried to punch green goblin at the festive event green goblin just stopped his fist Like ot was nothing
I think the Oscorp serum is actually better. Norman seems to take no damage. Steve gets punched and bleeds often. I think insanity and stuff would have been in the super soldier serum as well. That’s why he was careful who got it and pushed so hard for Steve to be selected for the experiment. Like the serum wasn’t what allowed him to lift Thor’s hammer. Steve was a special person.
I'm excited to see Dr strange multiverse of madness. Just to see how many things got messed up because of that spell. But I'm also really excited what's next for Peter Parker (Tom Holland) and what new challenge he's going to face.
I just did a bit of research. The lift capacity of the helicopter that Steve bicep curls in Civil War is about 3000 lbs, or 1.3 tons. And because we see Steve exert *all* his effort to stop the helicopter, we can surmise that 1.3 tons is very close to the max strength of both of Steve's arms combined. The weight of the cable car that the Goblin lifts is *also,* coincidentally, about 3000 lbs! However, the cable car weighs MORE with the children inside. And the Goblin lifts the cable car with one arm and with little effort. So there's some (extremely loose) scientific evidence to prove that the Goblin is stronger. P.S. Based on this, the Goblin would have been able to stop the helicopter from taking off relatively easily, and Steve would have managed to save the cable car full of children, but with great effort -- which makes sense to me based on everything we've seen of these characters in their respective universes.
Peter now should be obviously far superior to his Civil War self in both skill and strength,the comics do confirm he grew in strength as he got older but i cant find a statement confirming it about the MCU,regardless at nearly 18 he should be stronger than his 15 year old self He would beat Cap for sure now without bad writing. And if you say Cap beat Iron Man it has been confirmed that the Mark 46 was " limited non combatant suit with limited repulsors",you can even tell in the movie the suit is shit
Ofc captain America beats everyone in his own damn movie lol. Spider-Man was able to restrain strange in his own dimension, regardless of strange holding back, he should’ve tried a little harder when Peter’s body was moving without his soul. It’s only for the plot.
@@megaavonaco9954 True but still lots of people dont know about the limitation of the Mark 46 and i havent seen anyone talk about Toms massive improvement in skill
@@newhybrid101 If you're going to look at it that way, then it's classic comic BS. Superman should never lose to Batman. Even with Kryptonite, Superman can kill Batman to fast and from a distance for Batman to do nothing.
Absolutely, Goblins the stronger! It's obvious to see the captain had trouble fending off the Winter Soldier.. Where Spider-Man treated the Winter Soldier is nothing more than an annoyance.. Similarly, we can see the Green Goblin doing Spidey around with no problem.. So it must be that the Green Goblin Serum is much more strength inducing.. While as others have noted.. It doesn't exactly keep one sane either.. I'm pretty sure the captain would have rather kept his senses.. and I'm sure it's something that Ershkin and Stark accounted for
@Victor Nieves Experience and Skill, sure. But definitely not durability. Goblin was taking hits from spidey bloodlusted and didn’t have a scratch on him
@Victor Nieves Literally all of these things significantly hurt him. Iron man left Him bloodied and limping, gunshots have visible affect on him. Quicksilver made him flip. While goblin was UNHARMED by spidey. Cap has human level durability wym he’s more durable
1,000% Goblin was stronger than Cap. Cap took damage from getting hit by the Bucky in the 2nd movie. Spider-Man was shown to be stronger than Bucky in the third Cap movie. Finally Goblin took full-power hits to the face from Spider-Man in No Way Home and didn’t even get a scratch.
I thought the whole point of the goblin serum was that it gave a man power but not without cost. The who reason he made the serum is so they can make suoer soldiers but when applying it on man all that strength also amplifies adrenaline and bloodlust.
It’s kind of scary how similar captain and goblin are so spidey fought captain America with high tech got lucky goblin didn’t just fly and bomb him goblin is awesome I really like that villain I hope to see a new version of him in the mcu maybe when they introduce Norman Pete will go crazy cause he knows what he’ll become while others think Pete is the crazy one for suspecting Norman to be bad
Can we mention that maybe Steve’s concern for others health or only willingness to not hurt more than necessary, might indicate that he’s holding back? Such as Spider-Man holds back for the same reasons. Where Goblin doesn’t hold back because he doesn’t care. Suggesting that if Cap truly unleashed full strength without regards for others and if they were injured or killed from his doing, he’d show even more powerful physical feats that were impressive than many others.
to be honest, I don't think Thanos knocked steve out I think he killed steve with that shot to the head, then when he reversed time to retrieve the mind stone that action brought steve back to life. that's always been my head cannon.
Captain American is just the best a human being can be. The Goblin serum made him a power house. Like spider man. Not as strong as Thor and hulk but freaking strong in every way.
Also, Cap is peak human strength, technically being able to only lift upwards of 1100 pounds. Goblin has feats that go up to lifting 9 tons. Spider-man only topping this by 1 ton.
This is database bullshit. The movies and writers take a way more flexible aproach. This Steve is way way beyond any human. Like, he is freaking super human in every aspect.
Can we just come together and appreciate William Defoe's Green Goblin? Didnt he absolutely create one of the most iconic characters? He added so many layers of depth to a character. Purely genius. That man could be the greatest Joker ever, the Riddler, literally anyone with that notorious psychotic character. The batman who laughs. I'd pay 100 dollars to see him cast as a bruce Wayne that becomes the joker. Oh. My. God.
Cap didn't come close to lifting the whole beam though. Also (spoiler!), Goblin taking full strength punches from Spider-Man while smiling shows his durability over Cap who got rocked by just a few punches from Winter Solider and was beat to hell. Cap wins in a fight but Goblin serum is more powerful. My opinion.
Cap strength and Spider-Man strength are two tiers apart. TH Spider-Man may have been pulling his punches, but all the same I doubt Cap even has the capability to inflict substantial damage on GG the level Spider-Man did. Green Goblin wins, mid dif.
@@cmath6454 in a cage match, no gadgets, no holds barred, to the death, no doubt GG wins. I think Cap would win in any other circumstance.Call me old fashioned. Imagine Hydra Cap vs NWH GG.
no cap does not win at all how is he gonna win if goblin is faster and stronger. Plus of goblins punches would knock caps jaw clean of. want to know how abismal the strenght is between them ok. buky was going on par with cap and bucky threw a punch to holland who catually caught his fist like nothing while still laughing take the same peter throwing punch after punch to goblin the dude was laguhing it took him to finally caught loose and straight up wanting to kill goblin and even then goblin landed a few punches. it terms of speed goblin was reactin to moves of tobey maguire spiderman like what the hell. goblin destroys captain america, the fuck you mean cap wins.
What the heck y’all talking about??? Cap claps the cap out of Goblin’s a$$. Ez. Strength: he was on both his knees lifting that beam, with that little leverage along with injuries taken into consideration, he did a little better than alright in that situation, and would no doubt do better at peak performance. Rebuttal: Spider-Tom got just as much momentum catching Nerfed(not “full forced”) Winter Soldier’s punch as WS did throwing the punch, equal and opposite reaction. Durability: Nd it’s implied that Peter was pulling his punches on Goblin, that was the whole point of Goblin saying “strong enough to have it all. Too weak to take it.” Cap has taken a spider swing kick to the face by Early-Peter and was fazed but got up moments afterwards. Legs > Arms by the way. Cap took a very vexed punch from Thanos, and so far that might’ve been the only thing to knock him unconscious. He took a straight up super speed sock in the jaw by Quicksilver and got up moments later. Speed: “He reacted to Tobey’s punches”? Who says Tobey’s punches are faster than Caps, wut???? Steve is obviously the better fighter: Crossbones, WS, Slightly Suppressed War Machine, Bloodlusted Iron Man, BP, Chitari, Early SM, Room full of highly trained Hydra agents, and the list goes on- which is why I am confused you all are saying that if they fight without any gadgets at all Steve would lose because like hand hand is Steve’s bread and butter; if they fought with no gadgets at all Goblin would have less of a chance.
In my opinion the Super Soldier Serum works best on someone who is already in peak human condition like Batman (Bruce Wayne). If Steve Rogers was already peak human before he was given the Serum then this would be a different conversation.
That was one plot hole in the first Captain America movie they never explained. Schmidt injected himself with a single syringe of the Serum, which wasn't even perfected yet. But somehow he was as strong as Rogers, who was injected with six vials of the perfected Serum, plus the Vita Rays, which were supposed to enhance the Serums effects. Even later on, in other MCU movies and t.v. shows, there are people who receive small doses of imperfect Serum that were replicated by other scientists and they all became as strong and as fast as Rogers or very close. So what was the point of all the doses of Serum and Vita Rays and whatnot, if even small amounts of Serum, no Vita Rays and not even really good Serum, can make you as enhanced as Captain America?
I'd say Cap's time with the super solider serum could give him a possible edge against Goblin. Norman didn't have much time to learn all he could do with his Goblin serum. His ability to think out and plan attacks and counter attacks would be another positive towards him. He could try to use Goblin's rage against him. What would give Norman the edge was that he has no limit to his moral code and is completely psychotic. Ultimately, he would not stop unless he was killed.
I probably can't wait to see Spider-Man versus venom whatever they call it it'll be cool see Spider-Man and venom on the same screen since Spider-Man 3 and also I really want that action figure
The 2002 movie Goblin is using a version of the super solider serum. In the movie there’s a news paper Norman reads that calls it the super soldier program.
Spiderman in nwh is punching goblins face in the apartment and still unfazed and laughs about it. Then power bomb the sht out of spiderman. I never thought goblin was that strong
Goblins feat of catching that falling kid container thing with one hand then casually monaloging while holding it puts him above Cap. Cap is a 1-2 ton lifter Goblin is around the 10 mark. Goblin formulas only downside over super soldier serum is it mental instability it causes
It's funny, after watching the Raimi trilogy again, none of the OG avengers before iron man 2 would have survived against any of Spiderman's villains. Goblin would have wiped the floor with Stark, and Dock Ock would have ripped Cap limb from limb.
People forgetting GG has the gadgets to put cap down as well as being far superior in strength. Cap is more skilled for sure and the better fighter but Norman can fly around and bomb cap in a fight lol the shield can't protect his whole body from those explosives. As far as a fist fight between them it's like saying Mayweather (skill) vs Tyson (strength/power). Yeah skill helps but it only gets u so far when u dealing with a different weight division of heavy hitters. I always think of cap vs loki in avengers. He was connecting more and skilled but loki being a lot stronger was besting cap until iron man intervened
Norman held up a train car full of Boyscouts with one hand in the first Spider-Man with one hand, and he didn't even look like he was straining at all. He's easily stronger than Steve.
It's definitely stronger than your average super soldier, but the drawbacks are you go completely insane, but I'm not sure if it beat Steve's super soldier 🤔 and I'd give agility to the goblin serum since he was fighting THE Spiderman
@@daspooterman that doest make him agile he just had more weapons to use against spiderman. If im in a fight and I have 2 swords, that doesn't make me more agile
@@brumtownmiller6130 your right but the arms of doc oc are as fast as spiderman and green goblin did a number of acrobatic stunts in the first spiderman movie he's not as agile but he is pretty agile for having the suit on him
@Spooterman yh the arms are fast and cause a lot of issues for spiderman but most of the time he's not attacking the arms he's just dodging them. Goblins strength and reflexes enable him to do certain acrobatics but you wouldn't but goblin on any top lists for agility, all he does is a front flip and a spinny thing lol. If you could jump as high as goblin, you could be acrobatic without any training.
I believe it’s also the psyche of the subject that was a major contribution. Steve was always the little guy wanting to help, always denies, always sick, yet always pushing forward never quitting to put others first. And this is prior to getting the serum. Steve’s will is far superior then any other super soldier.
Cap struggled against an unexperienced spiderman and won mostley due to his shield. goblin beat a stronger more expirenced spiderman in the apartment with nothing but his pure strenght. And norman was able to slam peter down 4 or five floors with one move. That is way more impressive then what cap has shown.
“Won mostly due to his shield”???? Now Imagine spider man fight without his web shooter or thor without his hammer..... i think that’ll make them 50% less threatening 😂
@@winter6849 And? What's ur point. Is the shield part of the super serum? Cap used the shield to cut off the web and knock down the truck so spiderman is busy holding it up. So I'm not wrong and ur comment proves nothing.
@@idk-xh4pi my point is don’t try to downplay cap’s ability because of his shield.... one of spider man’s greatest combat skill is how versatile he is at using his web shooter and his web is certainly not a part of his spider ability (except for tobey’s spiderman)
@@winter6849 I'm not trying to downplay his ability, I'm just straight up stating what happened in civil war as evidence to the fact that the goblin serum is overall better in terms of physical strength and overall power.
Y'all spiderman fans have to understand that cap full potential hasn't been shown due to the fact he holds back, he was able to overpower Thanos for a few seconds, beat hulk in the comics, beaten spiderman without trying, held a helicopter back, and has Thor hammer which is confirmed it enhanced all cap strength and skill, his martial arts skill is also a problem for a old guy with bombs, GG has strength which could be equal to spiderman but cap is scaled to BP, shang chi, and even wolverine who also has super strength which is higher than super human strength. Cap> green goblin mid dif
My theory is this, the greater the strength, the greater the dual personality you get from any scrum. Cap = Very decent strength and a very balanced personality. Goblin = Slightly more greater strength feats than cap, but a fairly problematic dual personality. Hulk: Gamma induced super soldier scrum, Extreme strength feats and a completely insane and brutish personality. Sentry: Extreme strength, god-level dual personality.
One thing I think you're forgetting to take into consideration- regarding Norman's pain tolerance and stamina -is that both of those abilities are magnified and enhanced by psychosis. This is a proven, scientific fact. So Norman's abilities, in that regard, would be greater simply because: he's nuts.
So, here’s the thing. The super soldier serum only brought Steve Rogers to the maximum/peak physical human condition, so he is like your average very strong body builder But he can’t lift a bus like Spider-Man can, because Spider-Man has the strength of a spider, if a spider were the size of a human. But despite that, Green Goblin could still pin him (Spider-Man) to the ground with his bare hands, and threw him through many walls at once, making Goblin stronger than Spidey, making him (Goblin) stronger than Cap
Cap is what you get when a man is able to balance his need for strength with his capacity for love. Goblin is what you get when you abandon love altogether, which is why his strength feats are more impressive. He lost himself to that strength, the Goblin got in the driver seat and kicked Norman out on the freeway a long time ago. That's the exchange, you can have all the power in the world, but in pursuit of it you'll lose _yourself._ The thing people forget about these serums is that they bring out of a person what is _already there._ The Goblin is no more a product of the serum than Cap is; they are who they are because of _who they always were, inside._ It's not that Cap's serum was weaker, it's that Norman's demons and lust for power were stronger.
Non pissed peter stops Buckys arm effortlessly, same arm that Steve got his ass whipped by in winter soldier. A pissed off peter slams goblin with punches that did nothing. And if you think peter during the apartment scene was holding back as much as he was during civil war you are delusional. Goblin outclasses capt in every category but skill..
norman is definetly stronger. I mean spiderman (tom) was able to easily stop a punch from buckys metal arm with one hand and was even joking about it bucky with his metal arm is as strong as steve in my opinion so spiderman is significantly stronger than steve and norman was able to physically destroy spiderman in the apartment fight and literally laugh off his punches like they were nothing. so norman> steve
Clearly if you want no drawbacks take captains. But if u want to be way more powerful gotta sacrifice something like goblin (his sanity) , hulk (his control) , sentry (his control) , Peter (aunt may).
Goblin seems stronger at the cost of his sanity while Cap is less strong while being able to keep his sanity
Yes, that's my exact conclusion too.
It's the same with the hulk. His serum was supposed to replicate Cap but with the addition of Gamma radiation. He loses sanity as well, clearly.
The super soldier serum also affects the sanity of a man. Steve Rogers is just a really good man naturally. I think if Steve Rogers got the goblin serum, he would still be a good man.
@@zionaleem8795
The original super soldier serum doesn't really affect the sanity of a man. What it does as Erskine said, is it pulls what is already inside them out even more. Good becomes great, bad becomes worse.
@@cmath6454 yea like that. Is what I meant
Goblin slamming Pete through majority of a tall apartment building is a huge feat of strength that potentially put him on top.
Especially considering how Cap only cracked a few walls with his shield as he ran into them chasing Bucky in the Winter Soldier.
Yeah it feels like NWH Goblin displayed much bigger feats of strentgh and durability in his fights with Spiderman than Cap. Cap balances his weaknesses with his skill and shield.
Green Goblin is on another level Cap is still ordinary strength just at peak level
@@Yanamarre5 Exactly.
Cap has been smashed through buildings before.
I'd agree with others here. The Goblin's serum is *stronger* -- but it's flawed, because it sends him insane.
So Steve's serum is technically *better* because it works like it's supposed to.
I thought that the original super serum amplified the persons personality and that’s why Steve became SO righteous on his path for good. John walker took that shit too and his ass went crazy in the other direction cause he was flawed to begin with 😂 that being said I think you’re right, goblin serum stronger but super soldier serum (for the most part) keeps yo brain intact
Yes the goblin serum makes him a lot stronger than the super soldier serum, but it also makes him insane.
Personally I think both serums cause insanity. It’s why Erskin was so cautious about who he gave it to and why Steve was selected. Steve is special. It’s not the serum that allows him to wield Mjollnir. It’s because Steve is special.
@@JEM-wj2oc Yeah. You're right. But Steve's serum still technically *works* the way Erskin intended it to work, i.e. it amplifies all of a person's traits. It isn't flawed. Giving it to a "good man" is simply a requirement if you want the best possible outcome. (Read the label before use! lol)
Cap would still get bodied
It's pretty clear that Goblin is far stronger. The real drawback is that it drives him insane. The greatest feat of strength isn't actually the cable car, but being able to match Spider-Man in strength. The very same Spider-Man who stopped a speeding train, full of passengers.
Nah cuz Peter wasn’t as strong or inept in spiderman 1 as he was in 2 he’s a much better spiderman
@@ch0senplayz49 Not just that... Green Goblin wasn't nowhere near as strong as Spidey bc mainly he had to weaken him to stand a chance.
IIRC spiderman canonically has super strength that requires him not to be stronger, but weaker so that he wont kill the ones he punches. He's controlling the force of his fist to not kill, so it's possible to assume that Peter in spiderman 1 was stronger in hitting but less dextrous or refined. Goblin being able to tank hits and send him flying is a massively impressive feat
@@xpflowexclusive4313 except the goblin got the upper hand in other fights, and Spidey came out on top due to Spider Sense, speed, agility, and use of webbing. Goblin is also one of the only movie villains from that eara to tear through Spider-Man's webbing. And in the first first encounter, goblin matched Spider-Man in strength perfectly. Petter only won due to his resourcefulness
@@ch0senplayz49 I wouldn't say he's stronger in 2, so much as more experienced.
I have no doubt that Green Goblin is extremely agile and can perform any physical feed that Steve Rogers can. The reason he doesn't, is because of his mindset. He's a predator. An unapologetic force of nature that doesn't need to dodge or attack with the element of surprise. He wants you to know he's better than you. It's a purely different psychological state than Cap.
Ya he sees himself as a god
I think it’s really mostly about the technology they had when making the first movie and the suit he had to wear they just didn’t make him agile and movable
@@jamesgrottano5583 I completely agree with that practical reason. I was just adding more psychology that could explain it.
You’ll find most predators in the wild actually dodge or attack with the element of surprise the only animal that doesn’t is bears but that’s because theyre bears big cats are the best example of predators that are agile strong and sneaky he’s not a predator he’s just bat shit
@@darkdog42 So true. Animals that are worried about their own preservation aren't as dangerous as those reckless enough to not avoid harm. He is bat shit and that makes him far more unpredictable.
When it comes to Harry it's also likely that he didn't go insane due to pure chance. In the first movie its stated that only one in (if I'm remembering correctly) 13 of the animal subjects went insane. Since we can assume that the same idea carries over to human subjects we can assume Harry got the luck of the draw.
nope the formula was improved.
@@dolphin-studio In the comics it was, but it's never really specified if that was the case in the movies. Unless something official is stated, DrXshock's theory may be the most plausible.
The formula was improved and Harry was much stronger minded than his late father.
According to the wiki, Harry fixed it
@@dolphin-studio bruh the Green Goblin serum is Norman Osborn's life-long work. you think a college kid even able to comprehend the formula? even Peter Parker will have to take a second to think, let alone fucking Harry Osborn lmao. and that's the comics, Harry is even worse in the movies. in the Raimi trilogy he's portrayed as a soyboy/rich kid for 2 out the 3 films.
"They show minimal agility"
-me looking at goblin literally do flips and flying kicks around Spider-Man in their last fight 👁️👄👁️
yeah and he even does a front flip in their last fight
@@sirrolf2538 He was styling on his ass😂😂
@@andrevaughn6980 no cap😂
Yea but when you compare him to captain America then green goblin has the ability of Batman from the dark night rises
@@doodie7104which one
I think the apartment fight in no way home in it’s entirety is a big feat of strength for Norman. Dude straight tackled Peter through multiple floors
Love that scene
@Justin Arzola while tobey's punches made him bleed while wearing his helmet in spider-man 1.
Well yea but he was also falling and gravity affects the equation
@@Bruh-zu5pl yeah I know. But also to have the strength to put that much force in that tackle to go through the majority of that building is crazy. If gravity was the biggest player in that fight and less on normans strength they never would have made it past the first few floors. They wouldn’t have enough velocity to continue to fall with that speed and power to go through those floors with gravity alone. Yes gravity did play a big part but they would have never made it that far down the building just on gravity. Norman had to be putting a lot of power/force behind that tackle to go through that many floors. So yes gravity did help. But it is still a huge feat of strength for Norman.
After the first hit, it would literally just be momentum from them falling that would send them through the other floors
“They show minimal agility throughout the course of the Raimi trilogy” ehhh green goblin was flipping around and dodging punches like a badass in the first films final fight. And about the strength category I think being able to smash yourself from the top of a skyscraper to the bottem in like 5 seconds is a pretty decent feat.
I was hoping someone would point this out....I hated to be all nit-pickey but let's call a spade a spade, Goblin was beating Tobey's ass mercilessly at the end. He's also pretty strategic all things considered!
You know that captain America had a shield that absorbs almost all shock right?
@@rexsalazar3302 The amount of force that can be withstood by vibranium is still rather limited, as shown in Black Panther with how his suit eventually became overrun by force and energy. Given how Goblin possesses building-destroying missiles and bombs, as well as he himself being capable of smashing through several floors of an apartment complex in mere seconds, as well as overpower Tom’s Peter who effortlessly caught a punch from Bucky’s metal arm, I’d say Norman could keep up pretty well with the shield (maybe unless it comes down to hand-to-hand combat).
@@andrevaughn6980 Yeah, it’s a bit annoying with how often people tend to overlook Norman’s intelligence even when under the influence of the Goblin. He knows his stuff, with words like: “But the one thing they like more than a hero, is to see a hero fall, fail, die trying. Inspite of everything you’ve done, eventually, they will hate you. Why bother?” or: “The cunning warrior attacks neither mind nor body.” he’s a cunning strategist, much like the Joker. Moreso twisted upon his self-foresights and stances of the way he views the world and how to handle power in opposition to how Spider-Man views great power.
@@dirtyfighters7751 the black panther suit is clearly not only made with vibranium. Also, captain America sheild can absorb all the shock from the 3 strikes of a bloodlusted Thanos. While a Rhino strike is capable of harming Tchalla in his suit.
Though I believe goblin can defeat him. Iron Man and spiderman both have disarmed him of his shield before. Which leads me to believe so can green goblin.
The Goblin serum is for sure way stronger it turned a geriatric Norman into a super strength monster
But Erskine's formula turned a frail skinny guy into a beefy super strength hunk. I'm sure regular geriatric Norman was still stronger than skinny Steve
Damn 40s is geriatric now? Lmao.
Norman wasn't even in bad shape, let alone for a 40-year-old.
@@tiger_lord305 I know lmao dude must be 10 writing this
@@libertyprime1614 Defoe was cut in SM 1 he had really low body fat he looked in great shape he worked out alot for the part
Also Norman was significantly older than Steve when he was infused. Also one should not underestimate the "crazy" when considering strength. You can have all the muscle in the world but if not all the fibers are firing they won't be as strong as they could be. That's why we have colloquial terms like crack-head strength and roid-rage allowing people to do insane feats. I think Harry not going crazy actually made him weaker and less reactive but he made up for it by being younger than Norman putting him at a much higher baseline to build on top of. I think in a 1v1 a crazy Harry would be evenly matched by Steve but Harry would take the win by playing dirty
You have to be black. This was a perfect analogy. Country or Cock strong is a good one too
@@PressStartFonzie excuse me?
@@PressStartFonzie bro wtf 😭😭
@@atrumluminarium think he’s trying to say that “crack-head strength” and “roid-rage” are terms used by black ppl🤨 well, I don’t live in America so I wouldn’t know lol
@@callous2k486 Me neither. Tbh I read them all over the internet, I never really bother to check the ethnicity of the authors lol
I'm fairly certain goblin is much stronger at the cost of sanity, while caps serum sacrificed some strength in order to iron out the downsides of the serum. Other than that, spider man is much stronger than cap, and goblin is pretty well scaled to spideys strength level.
What leads you to believe that Goblin is stronger than Cap? What instance revealed how Goblin scaled to Spider-Man in terms of strength?
@@jarektempleton2104 Spider man is usually stronger than cap in the comics, also in spider man homecoming, he holds a huge ship together that got cut in half
@Victor Nieves no goblin just plays dirty, reading any comic would coincide with this. He scales to spider-man.
@Victor Nieves I more so meant that his level of endurance and physical strength is made to be more of an actual threat to spider man, not that he is as strong. I feel that if Cap fought Goblin, Cap would win because he is very experienced in fighting, whereas Goblin is just kind of a guy who's really strong. Could Goblin hurt Cap? I think so, if Cap got sloppy enough to take a few hits. But in the end I think Cap would come out on top. Just because Goblin is stronger and has better technology doesn't necessarily mean he wins.
@Victor Nieves he does in strength, you also have to take into account parkers speed and reflexes which is a little superior than goblins, and parkers agility is greatly superior to Norman.
I think one impressive feat is when green goblin easily ripped spider man's webs that can pull large planes
When it comes to brute strength and hitting force, goblin in no way home seemed to use much greater force then in the raimi movie. He swung Peter through tempered glass like it was nothing and slammed him through multiple floors with a single strike. Personally I think goblin would've gave cap a run for his money, possibly could have even beaten him out right
Something to note however is that during the events of Civil War, Tony Stark states that Cap was pulling his punches against Peter and could have defeated him easily. I think the line is "listen kid if cap wanted to lay you out he could have at any point".
Goblin physically overpowering Spiderman doesn't necessarily mean anything if cap is theoretically capable of the same thing.
@@cookieelement3467 your leaving out the fact that spidey had barely any experience in combat when He fought cap and tony said that to him. He has literally “fought an alien in earth and in space” now. “Ya he was purple” lmao
@@manuelcarrillo3028 I don't think fighting aliens in space once clears the experience gap between him and cap. He is more experienced now but that doesn't magically make him far stronger in every way.
Here’s the kicker, technically what they were able to do with goblin in no way home is actually supposed to be the level he was on in the Remy films. Unfortunately we couldn’t get that epic action. We want it in the Remy films because technology was just not up to par, at the time.
I’ve heard various TH-cam sources state that Tobey Maguire Spiderman is weaker than Tom Holland‘s, even though that has been invalidated in no way home. While Peter Tobeys Peter was barely struggling to stop Tom Holland from killing the goblin. They could be just because he’s gotten older and has become stronger and faster overtime. Something tells me they’re using buffed stats in no way home to significantly imply these are the feats of strength that Spiderman & Goblin were capable of back in the day.
The issue with that statement is who it's coming from cookie. Not only does Tony not know Peter's upper limits like he does cap since he's worked with steve longer, but we even see that the AI Tony designed for Peter's suit claim he wouldn't survive a fall from the Washington monument. Only for peter to survive a plane crash from a equal, if not greater, height in the film.
The fact that peter was able to keep up against cap in their first fight but had 0 chance against goblin in his first fight should settle it
fr Peter got his shit absolutely rocked in the first fight only reason cap was able to take on spiderman is because Peter was standing under the tunnel
Not really. Cap wasn't even trying to fight Spidey, Iron Man even says if Cap wanted to really lay him out he would have.
@@megatronusorionpax4900 so your saying that cap could take on a spiderman now with his spidey sense?
@@daspooterman yes, because cap is a lot more skilled and tactically intelligent
@@megatronusorionpax4900 I dont think he would be able to take out raimi spider man though. cap wouldnt lose, but raimi spider man is far too durable for cap to technically beat him
The Goblin Serum is stronger than the Super Soldier Serum. But Cap's serum was perfect and stable. Norman's serum mind were fracture but his strength match Spider-Man. I shudder to think if John Walker took The Goblin Serum!
@Victor Nieves I believe it! 😆
Kicks = Cap
Punches and Throws = Gobby
Sidenote: Anyone else notice how Osborn's serum mirrors Erskine's in terms of the neurological and psychological affects?
"The serum amplifies everything within. Good, becomes great. Bad, becomes worse."
also explains why Harry doesnt get the goblin persona in SM3 he gets the upgraded equipment ,the goblin serum ,he gets hallucinations of his dad/goblin ,but he himself doesnt become crazy ,he's all about vengeance.... MCU really fixed lots of plotholes ,i dont have a problem anymore with harry not having helmet ,cuz he is another character! ,when you see dafoe in NWH without the helmet you see that he is undoubtly the only true goblin.
We gonna just ignore that in the first spider man, the scientist says that it’s an 800% in strength and durability while it increases aggression as well, so it’s not like erskines serum in the sense that it amplifies everything. With erskines serum it amplified an asthmatic kid hardly capable of lifting his own body weight of around 120lbs to running as fast as the speed limit in what looks like the downtown of the city which would be around 30mph and being able to exert 3000lbs of force AGAINST a helicopter back to the helipad, that is more than an 800% increase. So anything that shows the goblins strength surpassing the multiplier of erskines serum is the goblin suit, in the amazing Spider-Man the goblin suit actually has a description of it granting healing abilities and strength (however I am stretching it with merging two different continuities of the Spider-Man lore, so take that as you will) but either way there’s no argument against statements from the series respectively
@@Bruh-zu5pl You know this guy said nothing about who was stronger between the 2, you got yourself involved into so many arguments that you continued them in a comment that didn't even involve that subject
@@ArtiomSigma damn lol I guess I replied to the wrong comment, my bad
In the first movie on the news paper Norman reads, it does call it the super soldier program. So it is actually the super soldier formula of that universe.
As much as I really want cap to be the winner, I could very easily see the goblin struggling a lot less to hold onto that helicopter
i think the og cap serum was perfect and everything else was close to near perfect and the goblin serum almost near perfect with the Dr Osbourne/Mr goblin side effect which was prob caused from the stress of government funding wanting a closer deadline before full human trials
@Maria Litoyo🌹 bruh
@rosaa eww
I like the subtle Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde reference bro 👌🏼
Nice Dr Jekyll reference but when you say Mr. Goblin, I imagine comic accurate green goblin wearing a Tom Ford suit and tie with the green face and purple wizard hat, ordering truffle and fish at a restaurant. He's probably wearing reading glasses too
@@fabooshka lmao i can see it
Fun fact: Due to Captain Americas super soldier serum his metabolism became so fast that he could burn nearly 8,000 calories in a day when he's resting. So he would need to eat on average around 10,500 calories a day.
Bruh thats the Rock diet
It's great because with the acknowledging Maguire and Garfield in the M.C.U. technically Spider-Man is the one who started the franchise and not Iron Man seen as his movies came out from 2002. Thank god for the Madness of the Multiverse, which also happens to be my most anticipated movie this year!! 😁
Well yes, but actually no
Pretty sure the x men came first since they’re potentially a part of the mcu now too
Blade is the first
@@cheesy1776 kind of I guess
@@cheesy1776 maybe first marvel hero movie. Sort of. But definitely not the start of the MCU
3:51
Cap was just barely holding up. It was clear weight like that is far out of his reach. Whereas guys like Spider-Man and Green Goblin could effortlessly carry that weight above their heads.
The cable car goblin is effortlessly holding singlehandedly weighs around 12 - 15 tons. And he had zero signs of strain.
So Steve just barely able to hold up 10 tons vs Green Goblin who effortlessly supports 12+ tons singlehandedly already shows Goblin is superior in strength.
It's not like Steve could lift a bus over his head like Spider-Man could. You'd be delusional to believe Steve could bench press the weight of a bus.
Also, Tobey's Spider-Man also supported the cable car weight singlehandedly as well, yet the Goblin could still overpower him.
So Goblin > Cap
Worthy Cap aka god status cap >goblin
I’m pretty exited to see not just the new MCU spiderman 4 but a new trilogy of spiderman movies and hopefully including the Andrew Garfield spiderman and Toby Maguire. I really wanna see where they’re gonna go from after no way home now that venom is in the MCU. I hope we don’t get another spiderman 3 but I would like to see little nods, like maybe have Tom just dance for a bit lol.
I really REALLY hope that MCU Venom is much different than the stupid Sony jokester Venom. Plus Sony’s Carnage is already dead so Andrew’s Spider-Man won’t even have a Carnage to fight now because Sony wants to make sub-par movies.
Shit bruh I wanna see my boy miles
I'll like to see hulk fight him and miles. He'll wreck them
Captain America's Super Soldier serum was more stable and had less side effect on the subjects mind
Green Goblin's serum was unstable granting him great strength but at the cost of his mental stability
so its a trade off of sorts
Green Goblin formula made his strong as Spider-Man and made Osborne stronger.
But Spider-Man is slightly stronger then Green Goblin.
If you really think about it green goblin is essentially a weaker hulk. The hulk also received a super soldier serum, and is the strongest example of the serum, but at the cost of, well, turning into the hulk. Goblin is essentially Norman’s hulk, with less variance, as goblin still maintains his intelligence, while hulk basically trades his intelligence for extra strength, just being a big rage smash monster.
A note real quick my dude... you mentioned at around 3 min talking about the goblin that "it's unknown how much the suit is aiding his strength". In spiderman 1, it's implied the suit doesn't actually give ANY strength at all and the suit is built entirely for protection and durability. The suit doesn't have any mechanisms really that would increase his strength (other than gadget controls), but the suit CAN take one hell of a beating. I don't know what the suit is made of, but it's practically unbreakable in the film (Although norman himself smashed the helmet in NWH with a rock)
The Goblin serum has the capability to drive the user insane and I wonder if the insanity bestows a mind over matter kind of durability...where Norman obviously gets hit but his mind is so far gone the pain doesn't register.
Like the Joker he's dangerously insane with a god complex when batman beats the chap out of the Joker breaking bones the joke is just laughing at him because he's crazy just like Norman that's why he was laughing like that
Yes this true this the same case with the Joker in the Dark knight when he his laughing while Batman is decking him in the jaw in the interrogation room. It is the insanity which causes them to be ignorant to pain and give them complete pain tolerance or high tolerance.
There is only only two things missing and that is backgrounds and affiliations because those also effect their fighting styles. Hopefully Black Cat can mend Peter's heart in TASM3
Why would black cat be in it
BaybeBambi Because she appeared in The Amazing Spider-Man 2 and they wouldn’t just leave her character out
Goblin formula is stronger but it makes you evil and crazy,while cap serum is more balance and keeps you sane
That's not how it worked the reason why Steve Rogers is so special is because he was incorruptible the super soldier formula did the same thing the goblin formula did they drove the person who took it mad it might even be the same formula that's what made Steve Rogers special.
@@TheRealMRGG85 did you see the falcon show? There super soliders didn't go crazy at all. They might very gotten drunk with power but again nothing like norman
@@Ty-rw3jk but we're talking about the formula Captain took not some random soldier and some barely cannon TV show
@@TheRealMRGG85 you guy's are literally comparing 2 different serums. Also wym barely cannon? The events in the shows directly effect and lead into movies. The Falcon show literally leads into the next Captain America movie. Loki started in a movie. How's it barely cannon, when marvel has said they're 100% cannon tf
@@Ty-rw3jk bro I promise you they will come a day with Disney no longer owns marvel and most of this s*** will be redconned
Obviously goblin serum is more powerful. Goblin went toe to toe Spidey who is significantly more powerful than Cap
spider man is stronger then cap for sure, but like ironman said in spiderman homecoming, cap in a 1v1 fight would lay spiderman dawn if he would.
Thats how it is in the movies
@@mathiasfrandsen5468 That was for a young inexperienced Spider-Man.
@@khumokwezimashapa2245 Tobey would rock his shit
Cap vs tom hollands spiderman even after no way home would still rock his shit
No, simply no. It would be like a 10-year old w/a black belt fighting a grown up. Cap isn't a saiyan a d would lose badly.
The physical effects of the serum have been duplicated and even surpassed in the comics but due to Steve's personality he has been the best super soldier.
The goblins strength rivals or is slightly greater than that of Spider-Man. Compared to captain America it’s the same as Spider-Man to a normal man.
Spider-Man can pick up a bus. Cap couldn’t pickup a small smart car.
Don't forget that Cap also got 10 times more serum then what Norman did, and Norman got 3 to 4 times more than what Harry did.
the first part has been proven wrong though. generally Goblin can lift about 8 tons while Spider-Man can lift up to 15. Spider-Man is still stronger
If you also want to count the comics and that versions being Goblin where he gots stabbed by his glider he actually lived because of his healing Factor kicking in
See this is how I thought they were going to get the Green Goblin in the MCU before they gave us "No Way Home". With Norman Osborn and Oscorp being one of many to try and replicate the original Super Soldier Serum. It's just like in the Ultimate Comics with everyone and their grandma trying to bottle lightning in order to make it strike twice to create their own Super Solider. Most of the heroes and villains from that universe were given powers in an attempt to create the next Captain America. Which is one to the many ideas borrowed from the universe and brought into the MCU.
Even in the first Avengers movie, they talked about Bruce Banner becoming The Hulk by attempting to replicate the original serum using gamma radiation, instead of it being just some random accident. And if they had introduced the Green Goblin into the MCU that way, I would've thought Oscorp would've been the closest to replicating the original serum, the problem was someone like Norman Osborn taking it for himself. Like Erskine told Steve in Captain America: The First Avenger, The serum enhances everything that's already inside a person; "Good become great, bad becomes worse". And we already know from the comics that Norman Osborn was a bad guy and an enemy to Spider-Man before he even became the Goblin. If Norman was already bad and slightly mentally unstable before taking the serum, than taking it after would've made him even worse and a full blown psychopath, just like in the first Spider-Man movie.
And since I mentioned the Ultimate comics, I actually thought that was the version of the Goblin that we were going to get in the MCU. The one that looks like a demonic fireball-throwing version of the Hulk. We never did learn what happened to all those vials of Bruce's blood that Stern made from The Incredible Hulk movie, just the one that turned Emil Blonski into Abomination. I could total see Norman Osborn getting his hands on one of those vials and altering it to try and figure out the serum's formula. He would've definitely been a game changer from the other Green Goblins we got in the Sam Raimi and Mark Webb films.
Something that isn’t mentioned is that Steve continued to train into his prime. In winter soldier, he’s seen running and boxing. We can assume he probably lifted weights too. Green goblins baseline at 40+ years of age being compared to prime Steve shows how much stronger the goblin serum is
It’s like golden freiza. Freiza was always strong, but after training he could go toe to toe with gods. Imagine a green goblin with a 30 lbs of more muscle
That in a Rated-R film 🎥
I'd be confident in saying GG is stronger.
Cap was near the same as Bucky, Tom SM could easily catch a punch from Bucky. GG almost beat the shit out of that SM, he also tore away Tobey's orgnaic web which would be same as spider-web but thicker, literally a metal cord that is 5 times stronger than steel
He caught a punch doesn’t mean he stronger then Bucky he caught and Bucky put his arm down cause he was supposed he was a kids it wasn’t a struggle
Also SM webbed captain Erica arms twice and he just overpowered Spider-Man to snatch him him closer
I think Harry definitely took a smaller dose because he was less powerful but also less crazy then Norman
To be fair, he fought symbiote amped Spider-Man 3 grown man Spidey compared to Norman who fought a weaker, inexperienced, fresh out of high school ‘normal’ Spidey, so it’s really hard to tell. Harry not instantly losing might really be a feat
No, Harry took a FULL dosage of the goblin formula while Norman only took half. This is further supported by Harry just having straight up far better feats than his father.
I feel like from a writers perspective it makes sense the Goblin serum is stronger with the caveat that it makes the person insane or borderline insane. As Steve Rogers didn’t have any side effects besides the whole “unable to get drunk” thing. That might be a good or bad thing though depending on the person. So we can assume that’s most likely the limit(or very close to it) of how much an individual can be improved without any seriously negative side effects because of how “pure” the serum he took was.
I also really like this cause it seems to hold up in other MCU examples.
1# Hulk is another SuperSoldier attempt gone wrong, and it causes massive split personality.
2# Pym Particles can enhance your strength and durability relative to size, but long term exposure again causes psychosis and instability.
3# Thor and Spider-Man’s physiology seems to be main exceptions, with nearly hulk levels of strength and durability without any mental or physical consequences.
4# John Walker and Kilmonger have the basic SuperSoldier benefits, but their preexisting traumas are exasperated by their new power.
Basically, if you start with the most mentally stable person possible, Steve Rogers is the most you can boost them without inflicting a severe cost.
@@benjeffries2610 I feel like Thor and Peter makes sense. Because Thor despite his human appearance is considered a God because he lives and has lived for thousands of years, and also is physically different from a human at least internally, or even the asguardian race is enhanced with magic, or maybe even both.
Spider-Man wasn’t enhanced with any drug and had his physiology along with genetics changed directly from the spider bite. Where most other serums enhance the human body without changing the genetics much or at all. Indicating the changes without the bad side effects is specifically because of his genetics changing in such a way to allow it.
It was always my headcannon that Harry perfected the Goblin formula and made a stronger version which is why he didn’t go insane and could somewhat fight black suit Spider-Man and even perception blitz Peter in the cafe scene if you take that seriously.
I think Goblin left the improved versions for Harry and maybe Harry did a few adjustments himself
@@newhybrid101 he apparently didn’t do a good job since that fall gave him amnesia.
@@megaavonaco9954 i mean he did smash his head against a metal pipe and fall like 40 feet lol.
@@RiceCubeTech also he was going fast as shit
Tobey Maguire’s Spider-Man is the strongest spider and the way he stopped Peters punch as well as taking a beating from Tom Holland’s spider show great strength Green Goblin is stronger than Captain America yet not as fast or skilled as well as having immense resistance because of Norman’s psychosis
yes he is faster than him wtf are you people on. to put you into perspective it takes a seroius spiderman to contend with him both speed and strenght.
They are the same in strength. The three of them are equal, because they are the same person just from diferent universes. Toby could stop tom because he can match his strength thats all. Toby stopped a train with alot of effot, Tom holded a ship.
@@dolphin-studio who’s faster ?
@@DAVISITHO1520 the older Peter is the stronger yet more resistant they’re strength is measured by potential tobey is the oldest that makes him the strongest they all have potential but when you really crack down to facts it’s by their belief and will power to overcome such strength
@@dolphin-studio first you have to prove that Peter is faster than CA in order for it to even be significant stating that for Goblin reacted to Peter, ya know? Cap routinely reacts to bullets, repulsar fire, presumably arrows, scaling to BP reacting to arrows which wouldn’t really even matter because of all the other things he’s reacted to.
Its also a good idea to mention that Goblin is far beyond his physical prime. So this would be notably weaker than what he could have been when he was younger or if it was given to an athlete or so on
The Goblin would Beat Captain America for these reasons
1. He is insane and a Genius at the same time. His mind will work in more dark and intricate ways than Cap to find an opening to exploit.
2. He has gadgets he can use as combos in a fight. If the Goblin found a way to integrate his sleeping gas in a combo then Cap may lose.
3. He has a Glider. Taking on the Goblin alone is never the case as his glider is always with him. Really, when fighting the Goblin, one is fighting two opponents.
4. His armour is stronger than Caps uniform. This means Cap is more likely to get injured than Norman.
5. Cap's shield. If Goblin could separate the shield from Cap, that would dramatically reduce his effectiveness as a combatant as Cap entire fighting style is engineered to accommodate
the usage of his shield. Once the shield is out of the picture, Norman is only left to fight an exceptional unarmed combatant. That being said, referring to Reason 3, the Glider is like another
opponent to opponents of the goblin. As the Glider is remotely controlled by Norman and may hold its own ai like features, an exceptional unarmed combatant such as Cap will be against
another highly skilled unarmed combatant with blades coming out of his body, and an advanced flying apparatus with built in blades, bombs, machine guns, rockets, and disintegrating grenades.
This was a great video! One of my favorite Marvel heroes and one of my favorite Marvel villains. Great job with the amount of research that was put into the argumentive comparison. Loved to see more MCU being compared to past Marvel movies like the Spiderman movies in the 2000s.
You have to keep in mind the condition of each of them before they took the serum too, Norman was at least relatively healthy for his age, Steve was all kinds of messed up
Good stuff! The Goblin’s serum was insane! It would be great to also see a comparison of Black Panther’s elixir vs. Goblin’s serum. I’m not really talking about them in their suits, just the raw gains they get.
The Captain America serum makes sense to be the superior super soldier serum of the 2. I mean, as far as we know there’s only been 1 user of it and it physically changed the user’s body in beneficial ways. Even if you just took 1 part of the serum and say the mentality is altered, the Green Goblin serum has a negative effect by causing the user to go crazy while the Super soldier serum has a benefit of making your brain function better like a ram upgrade to a computer.
I agree with you on this.
Goblin is far superior. Captain America is considered the peak of human condition base strength under a ton at 800lbs where as the goblin is considered superhuman base strength of 9 tons. Goblin serum also drives up users IQ to the point of insanity. And no, there are multiple variations of the super soldier serum. Black cat and sentry are two of them. The super soldier serum is also physical only so again, no, it does not enhance the brain in any way. Idk where you got your info
Goblin literally overpowered Rami Spider-Man who lifted a 100 ton + wall and stopped a train, and MCU Spider-Man who holds together ships, collapsing buildings and trolled super soldiers in his 1st appearance.
Green goblin is not as strong as Rami Spider-man he’s like 2 times weaker
Steve Roger’s also holds back from going full on against opponents due to his morals
In spider man two. Spiderman lifted up a huge metal wall to stop Mj from being crushed and when when spiderman tried to punch green goblin at the festive event green goblin just stopped his fist Like ot was nothing
I think the Oscorp serum is actually better. Norman seems to take no damage. Steve gets punched and bleeds often. I think insanity and stuff would have been in the super soldier serum as well. That’s why he was careful who got it and pushed so hard for Steve to be selected for the experiment. Like the serum wasn’t what allowed him to lift Thor’s hammer. Steve was a special person.
I think your comment is criminally underrated, Sir.
cap = bucky, bucky < spidey. therefore: cap < goblin
I'm excited to see Dr strange multiverse of madness. Just to see how many things got messed up because of that spell. But I'm also really excited what's next for Peter Parker (Tom Holland) and what new challenge he's going to face.
Who's Peter Parker?
I just did a bit of research. The lift capacity of the helicopter that Steve bicep curls in Civil War is about 3000 lbs, or 1.3 tons. And because we see Steve exert *all* his effort to stop the helicopter, we can surmise that 1.3 tons is very close to the max strength of both of Steve's arms combined.
The weight of the cable car that the Goblin lifts is *also,* coincidentally, about 3000 lbs! However, the cable car weighs MORE with the children inside. And the Goblin lifts the cable car with one arm and with little effort.
So there's some (extremely loose) scientific evidence to prove that the Goblin is stronger.
P.S. Based on this, the Goblin would have been able to stop the helicopter from taking off relatively easily, and Steve would have managed to save the cable car full of children, but with great effort -- which makes sense to me based on everything we've seen of these characters in their respective universes.
Peter now should be obviously far superior to his Civil War self in both skill and strength,the comics do confirm he grew in strength as he got older but i cant find a statement confirming it about the MCU,regardless at nearly 18 he should be stronger than his 15 year old self
He would beat Cap for sure now without bad writing.
And if you say Cap beat Iron Man it has been confirmed that the Mark 46 was " limited non combatant suit with limited repulsors",you can even tell in the movie the suit is shit
Ofc captain America beats everyone in his own damn movie lol. Spider-Man was able to restrain strange in his own dimension, regardless of strange holding back, he should’ve tried a little harder when Peter’s body was moving without his soul. It’s only for the plot.
@@megaavonaco9954 we could see that as surprise on Strange's part. Unexpected outcome never seen before due to Peter's Spider Sense.
@@JoybuzzerX Nah it was classic marvel bs.
@@megaavonaco9954 True but still lots of people dont know about the limitation of the Mark 46 and i havent seen anyone talk about Toms massive improvement in skill
@@newhybrid101 If you're going to look at it that way, then it's classic comic BS.
Superman should never lose to Batman. Even with Kryptonite, Superman can kill Batman to fast and from a distance for Batman to do nothing.
Great vid! Idk why it has never dawned on me that Goblin serum was a Super Soldier attempt.
Absolutely, Goblins the stronger! It's obvious to see the captain had trouble fending off the Winter Soldier.. Where Spider-Man treated the Winter Soldier is nothing more than an annoyance.. Similarly, we can see the Green Goblin doing Spidey around with no problem.. So it must be that the Green Goblin Serum is much more strength inducing.. While as others have noted.. It doesn't exactly keep one sane either.. I'm pretty sure the captain would have rather kept his senses.. and I'm sure it's something that Ershkin and Stark accounted for
Normans pain tolerance definitely plays a big part.
I think Goblin would have washed cap
@Victor Nieves Experience and Skill, sure. But definitely not durability. Goblin was taking hits from spidey bloodlusted and didn’t have a scratch on him
@Victor Nieves Literally all of these things significantly hurt him. Iron man left Him bloodied and limping, gunshots have visible affect on him. Quicksilver made him flip. While goblin was UNHARMED by spidey. Cap has human level durability wym he’s more durable
1,000% Goblin was stronger than Cap. Cap took damage from getting hit by the Bucky in the 2nd movie. Spider-Man was shown to be stronger than Bucky in the third Cap movie. Finally Goblin took full-power hits to the face from Spider-Man in No Way Home and didn’t even get a scratch.
I thought the whole point of the goblin serum was that it gave a man power but not without cost. The who reason he made the serum is so they can make suoer soldiers but when applying it on man all that strength also amplifies adrenaline and bloodlust.
Steve: “I can do this all day”
Norman: “I can do this all year”
It’s kind of scary how similar captain and goblin are so spidey fought captain America with high tech got lucky goblin didn’t just fly and bomb him goblin is awesome I really like that villain I hope to see a new version of him in the mcu maybe when they introduce Norman Pete will go crazy cause he knows what he’ll become while others think Pete is the crazy one for suspecting Norman to be bad
Can we mention that maybe Steve’s concern for others health or only willingness to not hurt more than necessary, might indicate that he’s holding back? Such as Spider-Man holds back for the same reasons. Where Goblin doesn’t hold back because he doesn’t care. Suggesting that if Cap truly unleashed full strength without regards for others and if they were injured or killed from his doing, he’d show even more powerful physical feats that were impressive than many others.
to be honest, I don't think Thanos knocked steve out I think he killed steve with that shot to the head, then when he reversed time to retrieve the mind stone that action brought steve back to life. that's always been my head cannon.
Captain American is just the best a human being can be. The Goblin serum made him a power house. Like spider man. Not as strong as Thor and hulk but freaking strong in every way.
Also, Cap is peak human strength, technically being able to only lift upwards of 1100 pounds. Goblin has feats that go up to lifting 9 tons. Spider-man only topping this by 1 ton.
This is database bullshit. The movies and writers take a way more flexible aproach. This Steve is way way beyond any human. Like, he is freaking super human in every aspect.
Spider man can lift a whole lot more than 10 tons. Thats like his bare minimum. Same for gobby
Can we just come together and appreciate William Defoe's Green Goblin? Didnt he absolutely create one of the most iconic characters? He added so many layers of depth to a character. Purely genius. That man could be the greatest Joker ever, the Riddler, literally anyone with that notorious psychotic character. The batman who laughs. I'd pay 100 dollars to see him cast as a bruce Wayne that becomes the joker. Oh. My. God.
Cap didn't come close to lifting the whole beam though. Also (spoiler!), Goblin taking full strength punches from Spider-Man while smiling shows his durability over Cap who got rocked by just a few punches from Winter Solider and was beat to hell. Cap wins in a fight but Goblin serum is more powerful. My opinion.
Cap strength and Spider-Man strength are two tiers apart. TH Spider-Man may have been pulling his punches, but all the same I doubt Cap even has the capability to inflict substantial damage on GG the level Spider-Man did. Green Goblin wins, mid dif.
@@cmath6454 in a cage match, no gadgets, no holds barred, to the death, no doubt GG wins. I think Cap would win in any other circumstance.Call me old fashioned. Imagine Hydra Cap vs NWH GG.
no cap does not win at all how is he gonna win if goblin is faster and stronger. Plus of goblins punches would knock caps jaw clean of. want to know how abismal the strenght is between them ok. buky was going on par with cap and bucky threw a punch to holland who catually caught his fist like nothing while still laughing take the same peter throwing punch after punch to goblin the dude was laguhing it took him to finally caught loose and straight up wanting to kill goblin and even then goblin landed a few punches. it terms of speed goblin was reactin to moves of tobey maguire spiderman like what the hell. goblin destroys captain america, the fuck you mean cap wins.
@@dolphin-studio Truu
What the heck y’all talking about??? Cap claps the cap out of Goblin’s a$$. Ez.
Strength: he was on both his knees lifting that beam, with that little leverage along with injuries taken into consideration, he did a little better than alright in that situation, and would no doubt do better at peak performance.
Rebuttal: Spider-Tom got just as much momentum catching Nerfed(not “full forced”) Winter Soldier’s punch as WS did throwing the punch, equal and opposite reaction.
Durability: Nd it’s implied that Peter was pulling his punches on Goblin, that was the whole point of Goblin saying “strong enough to have it all. Too weak to take it.” Cap has taken a spider swing kick to the face by Early-Peter and was fazed but got up moments afterwards. Legs > Arms by the way. Cap took a very vexed punch from Thanos, and so far that might’ve been the only thing to knock him unconscious. He took a straight up super speed sock in the jaw by Quicksilver and got up moments later.
Speed: “He reacted to Tobey’s punches”? Who says Tobey’s punches are faster than Caps, wut????
Steve is obviously the better fighter: Crossbones, WS, Slightly Suppressed War Machine, Bloodlusted Iron Man, BP, Chitari, Early SM, Room full of highly trained Hydra agents, and the list goes on- which is why I am confused you all are saying that if they fight without any gadgets at all Steve would lose because like hand hand is Steve’s bread and butter; if they fought with no gadgets at all Goblin would have less of a chance.
In my opinion the Super Soldier Serum works best on someone who is already in peak human condition like Batman (Bruce Wayne). If Steve Rogers was already peak human before he was given the Serum then this would be a different conversation.
That was one plot hole in the first Captain America movie they never explained. Schmidt injected himself with a single syringe of the Serum, which wasn't even perfected yet. But somehow he was as strong as Rogers, who was injected with six vials of the perfected Serum, plus the Vita Rays, which were supposed to enhance the Serums effects. Even later on, in other MCU movies and t.v. shows, there are people who receive small doses of imperfect Serum that were replicated by other scientists and they all became as strong and as fast as Rogers or very close. So what was the point of all the doses of Serum and Vita Rays and whatnot, if even small amounts of Serum, no Vita Rays and not even really good Serum, can make you as enhanced as Captain America?
Dude, Steve Rogers was skinny and weak before he recieved the serum. :)
I'd say Cap's time with the super solider serum could give him a possible edge against Goblin. Norman didn't have much time to learn all he could do with his Goblin serum. His ability to think out and plan attacks and counter attacks would be another positive towards him. He could try to use Goblin's rage against him.
What would give Norman the edge was that he has no limit to his moral code and is completely psychotic. Ultimately, he would not stop unless he was killed.
I probably can't wait to see Spider-Man versus venom whatever they call it it'll be cool see Spider-Man and venom on the same screen since Spider-Man 3 and also I really want that action figure
The 2002 movie Goblin is using a version of the super solider serum. In the movie there’s a news paper Norman reads that calls it the super soldier program.
Technically, but Cap was made strong without losing his mind.
Spiderman in nwh is punching goblins face in the apartment and still unfazed and laughs about it. Then power bomb the sht out of spiderman. I never thought goblin was that strong
Goblins feat of catching that falling kid container thing with one hand then casually monaloging while holding it puts him above Cap.
Cap is a 1-2 ton lifter
Goblin is around the 10 mark.
Goblin formulas only downside over super soldier serum is it mental instability it causes
Goblin didn’t catch it, he held it. And Cap has literally curled 1-2 tons before, wth?
@@jarektempleton2104 he caught it after cutting the cable.
It's funny, after watching the Raimi trilogy again, none of the OG avengers before iron man 2 would have survived against any of Spiderman's villains. Goblin would have wiped the floor with Stark, and Dock Ock would have ripped Cap limb from limb.
People forgetting GG has the gadgets to put cap down as well as being far superior in strength. Cap is more skilled for sure and the better fighter but Norman can fly around and bomb cap in a fight lol the shield can't protect his whole body from those explosives. As far as a fist fight between them it's like saying Mayweather (skill) vs Tyson (strength/power). Yeah skill helps but it only gets u so far when u dealing with a different weight division of heavy hitters. I always think of cap vs loki in avengers. He was connecting more and skilled but loki being a lot stronger was besting cap until iron man intervened
Bro these videos are always on point! I love getting to tell this to my friends before it becomes mainstream news! Keep up the good work fam!!!
Norman held up a train car full of Boyscouts with one hand in the first Spider-Man with one hand, and he didn't even look like he was straining at all. He's easily stronger than Steve.
Green goblin has super human strength while cap has peak human strength
It's definitely stronger than your average super soldier, but the drawbacks are you go completely insane, but I'm not sure if it beat Steve's super soldier 🤔 and I'd give agility to the goblin serum since he was fighting THE Spiderman
You don't need agility to fight spiderman, just speed, fast reflexes and strength. Doc oc wasn't agile and he fought against spiderman.
@@brumtownmiller6130 doc oc had 4 extra arms
@@daspooterman that doest make him agile he just had more weapons to use against spiderman. If im in a fight and I have 2 swords, that doesn't make me more agile
@@brumtownmiller6130 your right but the arms of doc oc are as fast as spiderman and green goblin did a number of acrobatic stunts in the first spiderman movie he's not as agile but he is pretty agile for having the suit on him
@Spooterman yh the arms are fast and cause a lot of issues for spiderman but most of the time he's not attacking the arms he's just dodging them. Goblins strength and reflexes enable him to do certain acrobatics but you wouldn't but goblin on any top lists for agility, all he does is a front flip and a spinny thing lol. If you could jump as high as goblin, you could be acrobatic without any training.
I believe it’s also the psyche of the subject that was a major contribution. Steve was always the little guy wanting to help, always denies, always sick, yet always pushing forward never quitting to put others first. And this is prior to getting the serum. Steve’s will is far superior then any other super soldier.
Cap struggled against an unexperienced spiderman and won mostley due to his shield. goblin beat a stronger more expirenced spiderman in the apartment with nothing but his pure strenght. And norman was able to slam peter down 4 or five floors with one move. That is way more impressive then what cap has shown.
“Won mostly due to his shield”???? Now Imagine spider man fight without his web shooter or thor without his hammer..... i think that’ll make them 50% less threatening 😂
@@winter6849 And? What's ur point. Is the shield part of the super serum? Cap used the shield to cut off the web and knock down the truck so spiderman is busy holding it up. So I'm not wrong and ur comment proves nothing.
@@idk-xh4pi my point is don’t try to downplay cap’s ability because of his shield.... one of spider man’s greatest combat skill is how versatile he is at using his web shooter and his web is certainly not a part of his spider ability (except for tobey’s spiderman)
@@winter6849 I'm not trying to downplay his ability, I'm just straight up stating what happened in civil war as evidence to the fact that the goblin serum is overall better in terms of physical strength and overall power.
Y'all spiderman fans have to understand that cap full potential hasn't been shown due to the fact he holds back, he was able to overpower Thanos for a few seconds, beat hulk in the comics, beaten spiderman without trying, held a helicopter back, and has Thor hammer which is confirmed it enhanced all cap strength and skill, his martial arts skill is also a problem for a old guy with bombs, GG has strength which could be equal to spiderman but cap is scaled to BP, shang chi, and even wolverine who also has super strength which is higher than super human strength. Cap> green goblin mid dif
My theory is this, the greater the strength, the greater the dual personality you get from any scrum.
Cap = Very decent strength and a very balanced personality.
Goblin = Slightly more greater strength feats than cap, but a fairly problematic dual personality.
Hulk: Gamma induced super soldier scrum, Extreme strength feats and a completely insane and brutish personality.
Sentry: Extreme strength, god-level dual personality.
One thing I think you're forgetting to take into consideration- regarding Norman's pain tolerance and stamina -is that both of those abilities are magnified and enhanced by psychosis. This is a proven, scientific fact. So Norman's abilities, in that regard, would be greater simply because: he's nuts.
So, here’s the thing.
The super soldier serum only brought Steve Rogers to the maximum/peak physical human condition, so he is like your average very strong body builder
But he can’t lift a bus like Spider-Man can, because Spider-Man has the strength of a spider, if a spider were the size of a human. But despite that, Green Goblin could still pin him (Spider-Man) to the ground with his bare hands, and threw him through many walls at once, making Goblin stronger than Spidey, making him (Goblin) stronger than Cap
An average very strong body builder couldn’t keep a whole helicopter from flying away
Spider-Man’s and Green Goblin’s strength is similar actually
@@rendongainey4487 Or lift that beam which weighed above 10 tons
@@crunks2955 Or punch a heavy punching bag across the room hahaha
It was because he was the scientist himself.
I agree that the Cap serum is superior to the Goblin serum, but I think in battle Goblin beats Cap 6/10 times.
Cap is what you get when a man is able to balance his need for strength with his capacity for love. Goblin is what you get when you abandon love altogether, which is why his strength feats are more impressive. He lost himself to that strength, the Goblin got in the driver seat and kicked Norman out on the freeway a long time ago.
That's the exchange, you can have all the power in the world, but in pursuit of it you'll lose _yourself._ The thing people forget about these serums is that they bring out of a person what is _already there._ The Goblin is no more a product of the serum than Cap is; they are who they are because of _who they always were, inside._ It's not that Cap's serum was weaker, it's that Norman's demons and lust for power were stronger.
Cap is a strong as the story needs him to be. It's very inconsistent. Seriously, pulling down a helicopter?!
Exactly MCU cap is op and every one keeps bringing up the clown feat of slamming spider man🤦♂️. Cap has more impressive feats
@@crisnc105 Yep.
Non pissed peter stops Buckys arm effortlessly, same arm that Steve got his ass whipped by in winter soldier. A pissed off peter slams goblin with punches that did nothing. And if you think peter during the apartment scene was holding back as much as he was during civil war you are delusional. Goblin outclasses capt in every category but skill..
How did you fail to mention the 800% strength increase that was mentioned in spiderman 1? That would have been a good way to measure and objectify
The 800% strength increase completely goes against Norman's feats, since he wouldn't even be able to lift 1500 pounds.
@@Cappyey true but it is something that was mentioned in the film, even if it was just rodents, it's worth mentioning
@@Geese4life Yeah, I get your point, I'm just mentioning that it's not accurate.
Funfact:Green Goblin is strong as Spider-Man but Spider-Man is slightly stronger then Green Goblin.
The formula also makes Osborne smarter.
...in terms of pure physicality the goblin is superior to Cap.....
regardless of which is stronger, I think we can all agree that a Cap vs Goblin fight would be insane.
norman is definetly stronger. I mean spiderman (tom) was able to easily stop a punch from buckys metal arm with one hand and was even joking about it bucky with his metal arm is as strong as steve in my opinion so spiderman is significantly stronger than steve and norman was able to physically destroy spiderman in the apartment fight and literally laugh off his punches like they were nothing. so norman> steve
also I thought that he got the serum in one of the Civil War flashbacks
Some say Captain America has the best serum, some say Green Goblin does
But deep down we all know, Gobby has the D R I P
My money is on Cap if the two ever got into a fist fight. Most excited for Deadpool 3.
are you alright, Cap has enhanced strength and peter can't scratch the goblin.
Nah goblin wasn’t even hurt by Bloodlusted Spider-Man he would wash cap
Clearly if you want no drawbacks take captains. But if u want to be way more powerful gotta sacrifice something like goblin (his sanity) , hulk (his control) , sentry (his control) , Peter (aunt may).