Why did Giancarlo Fisichella Underperform at Big Teams?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- In a video uploaded earlier in the week I said that Giancarlo Fisichella was the best driver in a slow car. But when he finally got his break at Renault he was outclassed not just by Alonso but everyone else around him. So why did he underperform and make us think maybe he wasn't that good after all? Let's have a look.
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Honestly, about the only place Fisichella really underperformed was Ferrari, but that year’s Ferrari was terrible and he was a fill in replacement for Massa after taking a spring to the face at Hungary. He did the best job as anyone could against Alonso and once Alonso left Renault, the whole team went into a slump it still hasn’t recovered from even today.
Not even Alonso could stop the slump he sat into motion lol
Trulli was A LOT better than fisichella at renault. Your comment is pretty stupid
@@dxfifa Trulli is one of the most overrated drivers of the 2000’s. He constantly qualified well but never had the race pace to back it up. The amount of times he started well and tumbled down the field as races went on was unbelievable and why he was sacked at the end of 2004.
@@rhyswheeler858 You are fucking clueless. Trulli never drove a top car and was consistently putting cars where they didn't belong and getting overcut by faster cars in races. If he got the opportunity fisichella did,nobody would be talking like he's some average driver. He was no superstar, but he'd easily be remembered as a really good driver.
In 2004 he got fired when legitimately driving on the level of alonso you idiot
His career luck was as bad as Button's was good.
Fisi underperform in Renault, but as for Trulli, no one can deny that Alonso was the clear n. 1 inside the team with Briatore in the absurd double version (team manager and driver manager) and the most of spanish Renault sponsor. Alonso is one of the strongest in 2000 years, no doubt about it, but he always had an exceptional power inside the team (except in McLaren with Hamilton...). It's not a conspiracy theory but the truth.
11:05 I think it's neither. It's like with Perez, Gasly or Albon now. Some drivers are just better at their midfield role, with pushing a midfield car to the limit, and their talent shines there. There are different factors that make a midfielder a good midfielder and champion a good champion. Running at the front and fighting in the midfield are two different pair of shoes and not everyone can do both well. I'd say that no one can do both well
Remember reading that at least one season saw Fisi incompatible with optimum aerodynamics for his car by virtue of his sheer height, so much so that his team were seriously considering having his legs surgically broken by their in-house medical team to ensure a better fit \m/
He’s 5ft7. He’s shorter than Hamilton.
He’s shorter than my wife. 🤣
You might be thinking of Alexander wurz. He was his teammate and really tall
@@heinedenstore quite possibly, tyvm for suggesting \m/
I'd say Alonso is the best mid-field driver by far. 2014 - 2018 were some masterclass performances in sub-par cars, and out-scoring a Williams in the 2014 Ferrari alone was amazing, almost winning in Hungary, and being so close to Vettel and Bottas who were driving cars about 0.5 seconds a lap faster, and dismantling Button and ending the highly rated Vandoorne's career were no easy things in 2015 - 2018.
No I don't agree with that. At Renault he was never really allowed to beat the selfish Alonso.
I remember Jenson Button once saying that Fisichella was the king of driving bad cars. He worked absolute miracles with those terrible early 2000s Bennettons, considering how bad they were.
I do wonder if he was like Pierre Gasly or Alex Albon in that he performed much better in midfield teams where there wasn't any pressure for him to get any more than a points finish. It must have been massively stressful for him being at Renault with Alonso during the mid-00s and then again standing in for Massa at Ferrari in 2009 when there must have been so much pressure on him to get decent finishes in that car. Funnily enough, Albon has worked quite a few wonders with this year's Williams too considering that it's a car that shouldn't be anywhere near the points under most circumstances...
Think your analysis is spot on. Another thing to add : at the highest level, drivers are also political animals. Fisi always struck me as a nice guy, reasonably balanced - see Jean Alesi also - and not possessed of the kind of ruthless streak of those 'winners' such as Alonso, Schumache, Hamilton. Getting a team behind you requires skill but also at the very top level, political acumen and ego.
Controversial Hot Take:
The Williams is actually pretty decent. Albon is average. Latifi is just that bad.
@@Bale4Bond he's a top fella bud
@@edstevens2772 "Average" drivers can't do 50 laps on one set of hard tyres in a bad car and still finish 10th.
@@Spermwhales93 if the cars good they can.
I think he just unfortunate to be in part of those "filling seat" generation, the generation when he arrive the old boys still dominating, and by the time he 'ripe' the youngster start to coming, and the front running teams choose to nurture those young gun rather than pick up experience driver.
I think his position are relatively similar to the likes of Ricciardo, Hulkenberg and Perez, and for some extend current junior formula generation, like Drugovich, Pourchair, and Seargant, are at risk to be part of those generation
Side note: it's pretty interesting you put Nick Heidfeld in the same blanket as those who happen to be world champion, i hope you can make the same video about him considering he has been teammate of Raikkonen, Massa, and Kubica and done well job againts them
Heidfeld never became champion but he was hotly rated after his junior category performances.
@@AidanMillward A German has the most top 5's without a podium and Sut would have that if Hulkenberg didn't.
Heidfeld has the most podiums without a win and beat Kubica one season.
I'd add sainz in the list also
Brundle didnt actually retire that year. He lost his seat and ended up doing commentary. He even says he was upset seeing the cars take off in Melbourne that year feeling angry the show was going without him.
Giancarlo Fisichella in English means "John Charles the Midfield King"
Fisichella seems to represent that gap between the midfield and the front.
Like how drivers like bottas, gasly perez look fantastic in the midfield, but average once among the elite
Not good enough to be called a legend but top good to be called mediocre.
In my opinion Sainz is growing into that role as well, he is incredibly smart behind the wheel, but just doesn’t cut it next to Verstappen and Leclerc when stakes are actually high
@@yungshinji9633 we haven't seen high stakes yet
Well...Bottas was far better in 2017 than Fisichella in 2005. Even Valterris poor 2018 was considerably better than Fisichellas 2006. France 2018 was the first race that Bottas went backwards from his grid position as Vettel hit him. Fisichella went backwards frequently. Perez in 2022 has been better than Fisichella at Renault. Albon 2020, Perez 2021 and Fisichella 2005/2006 were very similar relative to their dominant teammates.
@@adampetten5349 Quite right. Bottas finished 2nd in the championship twice and 3rd in the championship twice. That's 4 top-3 championship finishes. Fisichella never finished higher than 4th in a championship (2006) and was 5th in 2005 with the same car his team mate won the title with. And never mind winning, being a top team mate entails scoring lots of podiums and while Bottas' annus horribilis in 2018 was difficult (a lot of bad luck too since he easily would have won at Azerbaijan had it not been for his last lap puncture) he still managed 8 podiums and certainly had the speed with 7 fastest laps (more than anybody that season in fact), Fisichella managed just 3 podiums in 2005 and 5 in 2006. Meanwhile Alonso had 15 podiums in 2005 and 14 in 2006.
Renault won the constructors' championship in 2005 due to Alonso's solid consistency and Montoya's tendency to throw away vital points for McLaren on 4 or 5 occasions. And this was perhaps Fischella's luck for he thereby "contributed" to Renault's constructors' title.
And when Fisichella became Renault "team-leader" in 2007 he was outraced and outscored by rookie Heikki Kovalainen (scored Renault's only podium in 2007). Fisichella still showed flashes of brilliance in his Force India days but his nadir years in F1 sped up his retirement.
He is og Perez. Solid midfielder but cannot extract full performance from the car like top drivers do.
And not consistent enough
Fisichella had 4 circuits where he would always perform very well. Brasil, Canada, Monaco and Belgium. Like clockwork.
Austria as well??
He was my favourite driver from 97 until he retired. I even owned the sparco benetton jacket (which I was very fortunate to have) I used to wear it to school and all my friends would follow fisi even though it was the schumi/hakkinen seasons.
For me the rapid development of F1 during the early 2000's hampered fisi alot. He was an acceptional driver but I think he really struggled with electronic aids etc which turned drivers into pilots. Grooved tires aswell. Your bang on about his age he was caught in transition between eras and I don't think we ever saw his full potential as a driver due to the ever evolving nature of F1. When he got his ferrari chance I was probably just as happy as he was. When he announced his retirement I was gutted but I knew it was time. I often say to people imagine if the football team you supported after 13yrs never played again that's how it felt not seeing him on the grid in 2010. Wish him all the best with his racing now, would be awesome to get the chance to see him race and meet him one day.
i remmeber when the switch happened and the commentators actually discussed whether the move from force india to ferrari was truly that much of an upgrade due to how bad the 2009 car was (and he just got pole at spa).
I remember he said something to the likes of "as an italian it is a dream to drive for ferrari, and he is happy he had the opportunity to do so before retiring from F1". So in that regard it perfectly worked out for him + he could then move into ferraris GT program (although that may have been planned to happen either way idk).
One thing that always struck me about Fisi (and I was a Jordan fan) was that he was a peculiarly track specific driver. He was always exceptional at Montreal, and he was usually class at Sao Paulo, Monaco, and Spa. His best moments seem to have come from those 4 tracks (Renault wins aside)
Fisichella is one that I was always rooting for. Thanks for the story.
A bit surprised that in the generational demographics bit you had at the end (in which I agree you are correct, there are only ~20 seats in F1) there was no appearance of H.H. Frentzen.
My first ever F1 autograph was from Fisichella Silverstone '96
Nice
I feel like Fisi was particularly hampered at Renault by Alonso's driving style preferring extreme understeer. Like with Seb & Max being able to adapt to a really strange car and the 2nd Red Bull seat being "cursed", were Renault extracting maximum performance by setting the car up to be strange to drive?
I do wonder if that's part of the reason why some drivers really struggle in top cars despite strong showings in lesser ones. To find that extra pace the car ends up being a complete diva.
Gary Anderson, formerly of Jordan, talks very highly of Fisi on The Race's Bring back V10s podcast. In fact, only just last week they discussed how he was good but, like many others, couldn't keep up with Alonso when they were team mates at Renault.
So Fisi was to the 00s what Hulk/Grosjean/K-Mag and Perez were to the 2010s and early 2020s? I also suspect that this will be the case with the F2 graduates for the next few years as the current talents (Norris, Russell, Verstappen, Leclerc etc are locked in for the next decade probably)
Been happening to watch a lot of old races from that time lately. It seems like Fisichella had the peak raw pace to match anyone, but lacked the ability of a Schumacher or Alonso to just relentlessly reel off qualifying lap after qualifying lap in the race. Something particularly crucial during refuelling when "battles" would often be transposed on track by 20 seconds or so as strategies played out.
Often during a race it was as if he'd either mentally switch off or tense right up, costing him shots at the win at races like Canada 1998 (where Schumacher had been delayed by a penalty for putting Frentzen into the gravel leaving the pits, then was held up for a bit battling Damon Hill as Fisi led), Germany 1997 (Berger was already past him before the puncture) and most famously Japan 2005.
I don't think he was "past it" or anything by the time he got to Renault, I mean he was still only in his early 30s, he should have been approaching his peak if anything. And was quick enough to stick a Force India on pole in 2009 and be a hybrid boost down Kemmel Straight away from winning that race, but it was a pattern throughout his career really.
I think Fisichella was a victim of making one big mistake in his career, and that was leaving Jordan for Benetton in 1998. Ralf Schumacher used his two Jordan seasons to get a Williams drive (thanks also to his brother's deep pockets) and in 1999 and 2000, demonstrated that he could do well in machinery that was not brilliant. Fisichella went to a Benetton team that was in terminal decline. I think that if he had stayed at Jordan for 1998 and 1999 he might have gotten a big drive for 2000.
Fisi in that 1999 Jordan would have been amazing instead or alongside Frentzen
I may be wrong but wasn't Fissi's win in Brazil even luckier than just the red flag? Didn't his car catch fire as he took the flag?
It did indeed. (In the pits, after the red flag)
It was also engineered by a young strategist called Rob Smedley who ended up at Ferrari who filled him up at an early stop in that race.
And unlucky for Kimi -- technically cost him the title.
It only catched fire because he didn't cool the car off at all
@@gazzypops1Actually it didn't
Had the result have stayed the same, and had every other result stayed the same the final scores would have been
The Michael - 93 points
Kimi - 93 points
With the Michael taking the title on countback with more wins than Kimi.
I feel like Danny Ric also falls into this situation. Stuck between two generations
Same could be said about grosjean
Ricciardo, Grosjean, Magnussen, Perez, Hülkenberg. They started around the first Red Bull dominance, and spent majority of their career in the Mercedes-era. At least some of them had a chance to rise above the average and score some wins, like Ricciardo and Perez in the Red Bull.
I feel like Riciardo could have been something great in 2014/15 had RedBull-Renault not taken a nose dive at the beginning of the Hybrid era and had Mercedes not been light years ahead of everyone else on the grid
Good video about Fisichella's interesting career. Let me add a few remarks.
Fisichella was in second place when he got that puncture in Germany 1997. That Jordan was actually a very good car, but it didn't get the results it deserved because of its inexperienced drivers. Over the next years, Fisichella then moved to Benetton and then back to Jordan at exactly the wrong time. He was surprisingly beaten by Wurz in 1998. The collision with Alesi in Austria directly after a pit stop looked quite silly, but it was Alesi's fault, as Fisichella had the inside line. Failing to capitalize on this pole position was very significant, though, as Benetton only managed to score a single point in the second half of the season, which saw them drop to fifth in the championship. In 1999 and 2000 Fisichella annihilated Wurz, who was at a severe weight disadvantage.
2001-2003 was probably Fisichella's best period. He made Button look very average in 2001, was occasionally fighting much faster cars in 2002 and of course he had his phenomenal win in 2003. It seemed Fisichella never felt comfortable at Renault, just as Räikkönen never shone at Ferrari. Being beaten by Alonso in 2005 and 2006 hurt his reputation, but when Kovalainen beat him as well in his rookie season, Fisichella's career was pretty much over. He did get that phenomenal pole in Belgium 2009, as Force India got more competitive. Had he stayed with them, he might have won the Italian Grand Prix... Moving to Ferrari sadly ended his F1 career.
Always went well in either Interlagos, Monaco, Montreal and Spa. Think he had a run of 4 podiums in a row at Montreal from 1997-2000.
All in midfield cars too 👏
Perez, Danny Ric and Grsojean are also 2 intergen drivers that were stuck with the Lewis, Vettel, Rosberg, Kubica gen and the earlier gen with Alonso, Kimi, Massa and Jenson with the drivers of Max, Charles, George, Lando gen being the few years on the otherside that gave the intergen group no chance to really grow or challenge at the sharp end
Always rated him and I remember reading about him being highly respected by engineers. Now we look back being beaten by Alonso is nothing to be ashamed of. His big break came too late. Even the best can struggle adapting in the twilight of their career.
I've started watching F1 around '01, so I saw most of Fisico's carreer, but I'm genuinely surprised how much he'd moved around on the grid. Especially him going back to "former" teams on more than one occasion.
His career is like a palindrome: Italian team, Team Silverstone, Team Enstone, Team Silverstone, Sauber (odd one out), Team Enstone, Team Silverstone, Italian team.
Everyone who races a Formula 1 car even in great teams is probably not a potential world champion. There are some magnificent drivers in F1 who came close (Watson, Reutemann, G. Villeneuve, Montoya) or never did (Arnoux, Lafitte, Berger, Barrichello, Frentzen), but were exciting to watch nonetheless. In this brittle era of stats talkers, Fisico is in that 2nd group along with Webber, Alesi, Trulli, Nannini, Salo, Coulthard, and others who were great but never in the best circumstance for title success. He was still a great worthy driver who I rooted for during his career. The Sennas, Hamiltons, Prosts, and M. Schumachers are in an elite group of drivers deserving of their own special category. Great video as ever, mate!!
For me Fisi wa a driver like Trulli.Panis or Frentzen. You know the're a reliable commodity back in the late 90's early 2000's. All also being able to lead a lower team or a solid but maybe not number 1 driver standard at a top team, maybe similar to a modern day Bottas
Much less able to Support Alonso than a Bottas or Barichello.
Trulli and Frentzen were better than Panis and both had better seasons in actual good cars with good teammates than fisi ever did.
Trulli literally matched alonso in 2004 and got fired so fisi could come in and underperform
My favourite driver, Jordan hero.
Still waiting on that episode on Brazil 2003…
Same
I think it was a bit of all of those factors. I liked Fisi as a driver but, like Trulli, he had an issue with losing focus at key moments as well as often being stuck with some awful cars (B201 as a prime example).
I remember fisi mostly for being such a likeable guy. I always wanted him to do well, and sometimes he really did deliver, like a jack out of the box. So you could always go watch a race and hope, which is exciting. I also remember someone at Williams saying, years after, that JP was good in a bad car whereas Ralf was good in a good car
I was thinking about who Sainz was reminding me of when it comes to underperforming at a big team and the closest I could think of was Fisichella. Then this video comes along. Funny how that works.
I've not even started this yet but I want to thank you so much for this video. I always loved Giancarlo as a kid, no idea where it started. I'd argue my falling out of love with F1 began when he didn't push on at Renault. I remember being buzzing when he won in Australia, thinking he was gonna be in contention for the title.
"....the retiring Martin Brundle...."
That's not how Brundle tells it, apparently EJ had already snapped up Giancarlo as he got this news from Louise Goodman who was leaving Jordan for ITV and persuaded Martin to do the commentary job at ITV. You listen back on some of those early races and Brundle really had it in for Fisi....just Hunt had it in for Patrese but not as petty.
So Giancarlo Fisichella was the Norwich City of F1. Too good for the 2nd rate drivers, too slow for the top drivers.
I love these kinds of drivers -- and this is a great analysis! It'd be great if you could look at more of these midfield maestros (ideally starting with Johnny Herbert, a fave from my youth...).
2009 Ferrari was pig of a car. It's amazing how well Raikkonen and Massa were performing with that POS. 2009 Ferrari was definitely a "mid car" that you mentioned. Raikkonen's win at Spa (while Badoer was DEAD LAST) really proves that the top drivers are actually... well... top drivers.
Makes you wonder though, how many decent drivers have been the victim of pure chance? Who could have had a more successful carreer if there had been a better seat option at the right time?
Literally look at Trulli being fired for fisi while driving the best he ever did. If he kept his seat the Trulli Train could have been Alonso and Raikkonen
I still think Flavio Briatore didn't help. Alonso was the favoured son at Renault which meant he would have got all the help to win the WC while the Number 2 is told they have to perform or they are out, but aren't given the recognition if they DO perform
Look at Jarno Trulli. Won in Monaco in 2004, then all of a sudden his relationship with the team broke down and after losing a podium on the line in France was out the door
So I firmly believe that if Fisichella was given that support he would have done much better in the Renault years
This needed some coverage here for sure. Briatore as his manager put a massive amount of pressure on him touting him as a possible world champion in 1998.
Trulli was just faster than fisi at renault.
Alonso was the favourite as he was younger and faster, after 2003 Trulli was already internally considered ready to be replaced by fisichella. But Jarno had other ideas and completely shocked the team by performing like a beast the first half of 2004. Instead of being happy, Renault felt Alonso was being embarrassed and instead of changing their mind, they shamed Jarno for his success subtly.
People knew alonso was really good, but they didn't realise he was that good, and thus underrated Trulli's performance against him
And that story is incomplete. Flavio was Trulli's manager as well as Fisi and Alonso.
Trulli did not renew his contract with Briatore, while he was the hottest (form) driver in f1 other than Michael and maybe Button. After this, the egotist flavio, already looking at fisichella after trulli struggled in 2003 decided that he needed the driver's money more than a good driver and that Fisi was as good or better than Trulli so told trulli he wouldn't be renewed. The team at Renault also favoured alonso all the way down. The win at Monaco was basically embarrassing the whole team's perspective and they were already moving in 2004 to freeze Jarno out and sign fisi
Like I said, this was when he was straight up as fast as alonso, and outscoring him. It was at the same time as the French GP was coming up that trulli fired flavio as manager, so Flavio used the most bullshit excuse possible to publicly not renew and humiliate trulli.
Then miraculously Trulli goes from being a podium contender and regular top 5, to scoring zero points and retiring from races... Hmm. Flavio then decided to fire him immediately, get Villeneuve in (who was even worse than that) and hired Fisi (who still gave him contract money). We all saw what a mistake that was
@@dxfifa Happened to Fisi after he won in Australia as well in the season after you mention. Briatore and Renault freezing drivers out for their poster boy alonso.
@@nickmullen2830 No, fisi was just slow. He was a favourite of flavio and they already decided in 2003 he was going to replace trulli, but Jarno drove possessed to start 2004
@@dxfifa Gonna have to agree to disagree.
Thanks for this video. Fisicho (Fisichella) was our favorite driver, my wife and I. We liked his hot blooded italian temper and his apparent will to do the impossible. As your video suggests, I think he was more of a underdog team driver able to outperform an average car, rather than the opposite. Just like Hulkenberg or and Jos Verstappen. We liked him the most when he was at Benneton. I remember his pole position in 1998. Cheers!
I remember one year they had a vote among all the Playboy bunnies, and they voted him as the sexiest F1 driver. So he’s already won in life. Of course, it isn’t that hard to beat David Coulthard in a beauty contest.
Before Button was a driver?
@@adampetten5349 Button was like 17 when that happened.
He managed to somehow win the 2003 Brazilian GP is arguably the worst GP winning car ever... the 2003 Jordan-Ford.
Some drivers thrive in smaller teams with less pressure to consistently deliver, Frentzen was another example of this.
Hum... Ralf was old guard in the late 90's? He's born in 75. Coulthard, Barrichello and Villeneuve are born in 1971 or 1972, I don't call that old either, they were in their mid 20's ! Fisichella is born in 1973, so he's basically the same age as they are, and older than Ralf, Wurz or Trulli.
Fisichella was simply not impressive enough. Yes, in the midfield cars he had some good results and would have been a good n°2 for a top team, but I don't think he underperformed that much at Renault. He was simply not that fast. Trulli was way fast for example, but for some reason Briatore fired him for Fisi, which could have caused Renault the team championship in 05 or 06. In 05 they were lucky the Mercedes engine was made out of cristal and that Montoya was injured for 2 races, and in 06 that Massa was doing rookie mistakes regularly.
It's interesting to look at F1 drivers through the lense of 8-9 years generation :
For example, if you take a 1961-1969 generation, the one after Prost, Mansell, Piquet, Senna, then a 1970-1978 generation, a 1979-1987 generation, 1988-1995, and 1996-2003.
You'll see that the 1952-1960 was immensely talented with 4 legends and didn't leave room for the next generation until 1994, when some of the 1961-1969 generation drivers were already in their 30's.
This 61-69 generation was very successful though, if only thanks to Schumacher and Häkkinen. But other very talented drivers include Alesi, Frentzen, Irvine, Herbert, Panis...
The next generation though, the 1970-1978 gen, wouldn't be successful at all !!! Only 1 champion, Jacques Villeneuve. There were good drivers ofc, like Villeneuve, Coulthard, Barrichello, Fisichella, Montoya, Wurz, Trulli, Ralf, Heidfeld or Webber, but they would struggle for sucess because of Michael's insane run of titles, and the next generation being prodigious generation exploding early.
The 1979-1987 generation might be the most talented of all : Räikkönen, Button, Alonso, Massa, Kubica, Hamilton, Rosberg and Vettel for the best, but also very good drivers that would have been successful winners in another context with less world class competition, like Hülkenberg, Sutil, Bourdais, Grosjean, Kovalaïnen, Di Resta, Kobayashi or Petrov.
This generation was insanely successful, with 6 world champions, for 16 titles ! With Alonso and Hamilton still around today to add more to the hit list.
And the next generation is struggling a lot because of that.
The 1988-1995 generation is clearly not the most talented, but it is sure that some of them have struggled with the success and longevity of the previous generation.
Perez, Ricciardo, Bottas and Sainz are clearly the best of this generation in F1, but no world champion here, and none among the very best I think. OTher very talented drivers include Vergne, Buemi, Vandoorne, Magnussen, Kvyat, Giovinazzi, Nasr and de Vries. Some didn't even reach F1 despite being very good like Robin Frijns, Antonio Felix da Costa or Mitch Evans.
This gen might end up with 0 world titles.
And when we see the following generation, we understand why. The 1996-2003 generation is taking the reigns directly from the 1979-1987 generation !
In this generation, Verstappen, Leclerc, Russell are already winners (or WC for Max) and well in place in the best teams. But other great talents include Ocon, Gasly, Norris, Albon, Piastri, Zhou, Stroll, Tsunoda or Sargeant for those already in F1, and for the very good who have missed or are incoming, you have Schwartzmann, Illott, Drugovich, Pourchaire, Doohan, Iwasa, Lawson, Hauger, Armstrong, Vips, Vesti, Verschoor, Martins, Arthur Leclerc, Maloney and Cordeel. Really an impressive pool of talent, which will cause trouble for the following generation... Which includes drivers who seems impressive already like Stanek, Bearman, Antonelli or Tsolov. This will be difficult for them to reach a top F1 team in 5 years or so with Leclerc, Verstappen and Russell not even 30...
Oh come on, not that "he was on course to win at Hockenheim" myth again, please.
Fisichella was on a one stop strategy when Berger was on a two stop, and the suspense on the last stint didn't even last one lap as Berger was so fast he passed him back right away even though he had come out of his second stop behind the Jordan.
Fisichella was never in a position to win that one (second place would still have been amazing).
The one he *could* have won was Buenos Aires earlier in the season, if only Ralf had not put him out of the race.
Or Nurburgring in 99 in the rain before he put it in the wall or Suzuka and holding off Kimi. When the pressure was on sadly with Fisi sometimes he cracked.
"If" you have done a better video, than your thesis on Fisichella on his underwhelming performance, I can't think of what it is. I often wondered the same thing, but had no idea how the hell to illustrate it. Thanks for filling in the picture!👍
Considering the points you raised in this video Fisichella strikes me as a "lost generation" talent, the equivalent of a Hulkenberg or Perez of his day. He really should have been in a top car around 1998/99 as opposed to 2005/06, but the opportunity didn't come
Fisi was really good in Montreal, getting multiple podiums there
I'm Italian and I can say that Fisichella and actually even Trulli were both good drivers, but not "top team" level. They were good drivers for mid-tier teams who wanted to develop their car and score some points here and there, but that's about it. They were solid drivers, they were fast but never contenders even when they had the possibility to make some noise up there. They are amongst that kind of drivers like Panis, Frentzen or Herbert: all of them were good drivers, but not Champions.
I wonder if going touring car racing at an impressionable age calibrated his brain slightly wrong for F1? Maybe he got used to driving a car that wasn't quite perfect and kept that approach into his F1 career, giving him a knack for getting the most out of a mid-tier car (at a time when the weight balance could be a bit off in a mid-tier car, and the downforce could come and go unexpectedly, etc). So when he finally got into a car that would do exactly what the driver wanted, he didn't have that extra polish on the razor to really use it? An iffy theory, not sure if I find it convincing, but I'll put it out there.
I don't think when he was born really had anything to do with it, I think he just either ended up making poor decisions being in the right teams at the wrong time, or became a victim of circumstance. When he was teamed with Alonso, we all know Alonso was the better driver, but what we do not know for sure is just how much he was hampered as a #2 driver. With Irvine, Barrichello and even Massa, we knew 100% how they would have to give up races they could have won easily, but it was never as clear cut with Fisi. Alonso was dominant, yes, but I would also guess that Fisi was held back as well.
The other problem he had was that in the midfield he was nearly always teamed with the "next big thing". While yes you could put that down to age, these drivers (even Wurtz) were specifically brought into teams with the idea that they would be future world champs, and Fisi became the forgotten son and gained a reputation as the solid driver who would always be #2 in bigger teams.
The thing is, the bit where I say in the right car at the wrong time also became a feature of Alonso's career as well. After his domination at Renault, every time he moved to a new team it was at the wrong time. He should have easily won the 2007 championship, but being there the same time as Hamilton began his career ruined that. He then went back to Renault which was not a great car at the time. Then Ferrari, which certainly saw more success, but was there at a time where Red Bull and Vettel had risen to dominance. Then he returned to McLaren at a time they had slumped massively. With the Honda engine being unreliable then the realisation that the chassis was shit anyway once Honda split, went to Red Bull and turned their cars into championship contenders. The return to Alpine we will have to judge how poorly that might be once we see how they perform the next few years, and maybe the jump to Aston that everyone thinks is a mistake turns out to be pure genius.
At least with Alonso he had his time to shine. Fisi on the other hand was just a guy who never got the break he deserved.
Fisi was an excellent point and squirt driver. He could optimise the exit of tighter corners which is why he was always good at places like Monaco and Canada.
He did not adapt well to driving aids, particularly traction control. He thought he could drive faster without it, at monaco in 2002 he turned it off much to the annoyance of the team because they knew the car was faster with it on. He required coaching on how to apply the throttle from Gary Anderson. It was very unnatural for him. And i don’t think he ever got his head around it. TC robbed him of some his talent.
He did not have supreme confidence in race craft situations did he? I’m thinking of Japan 2005 a race he should have won but really just lacked confidence defending from Raikkonen.
At Renault Alonso had an extreme way of getting speed out of the car, an understeery machine where he could sweep into corners from a wide angle very aggressively. Fisi was much more refined and gentle and i think that exaggerated the gap between the two drivers.
If say Alonso and Fisi were in a 98 Benetton i think the situation would have been a bit closer.
Beautifull driver, but not strong enough mentaly. All in the head i would say.
I don't think he underperformed. He even won a handful of races! He just was not so good.
Trulli had the same issue as well! ( must be an italian thing....)
He was pretty good in Renault. His only really poor run was with Ferrari.
Your generational theory has a lot of traction to it. I think the same can also be applied to Jarno Trulli (Oh Italy, you have the weirdest relationship with Formula 1 drivers) who is only a year younger than Fisi. Even though he was 23 when he made his debut in 97, he would be 29 when going up against Alonso, who was 22, in 2003.
I think his years at Renault were quite good. I just put him in the same vein as Hulkenberg: solid, dependable drivers, 7 or 8/10 (which in an age with worse reliability than today, would help to score points when everyone else failed around you) but not someone with stratosferic talent, specially not in high pressure environments that require nerves of steel.
The Ferrari races don´t even count in my mind because he went to another team mid season in a car that wasn´t that competitive that year and had a different engine as well, so little of his Force India development and know-how could translate well.
Sooooo... Fisichella is basically Bottas?
You should to the same thing with Jarno Trulli, maybe then I'll be able to tell those two apart. I watch F1 since 1997 and still have trouble saying who of those is who, not even sure why, they have non similar names, come from different countries and have never been in the same team, at the same time (luckily).
And then there was olivier panis, who is kind of the same guy for me as well, but not quiet to the same extend, because I am childish enough for his name to stick out...
They’re both Italian
@@TenaciousE03 ah damn, your right, panis was the frenchman 🫣like i said i just can’t tell them apart
"Bad for a number 2 driver" - Mark Webber
Think he was a good driver for sure. Kind of reminds me of Herbet luckwise.
He reminds me a lot of gasly
I always thought Fisi was a solid driver, could always turn in a result but was at the wrong end of his career when he had a decent car underneath him. You could kind of compare him to a Magnussen, Checo, or not to summon the fanboys, Hulkenberg type of driver these days.
Aww. This is a good topic.
If Rubens left Ferrari in 2002 after the Austria scandal, I think Fisi would've had a chance in 2003 against Michael, Kimi and JPM but would've had the unreliability that Rubens had
Used to love seeing him in the Jaguar XKR in the Blancpain seasons of the mid-teens.
Fisi was my favorite driver when I first got into F1 as a child. Although it was hard to watch Alonso get the better of him every weekend it made his two wins and multiple podiums at Renault all that much better, especially since I was rooting for him since the Benneton days. Even a podium felt like a win! I still have my 2003 Fisi Jordan hat from my first race I attended.
And 2006 was supposed to be his best season in F1 1 win, 4 3rd places. 72 Points 4th in the drivers championship.
Fisichella once made "that overtake" at Eau Rouge. Unforgettable.
What year
Always like Giancarlo and was sad that he never got a chance in a decent team. That he could drive the wheels off a half baked car showed what he was capable of. Had he been the "main man" at a big team with the support of that team behind him, I'm sure he could've done more with his career
Stop being stupid. he got a better car at Renault than 95% of f1 drivers ever get and made Flavio wish for Trulli back
Yes he should of scored more Podiums with Renault in 2005 & 2006
As a journalist I got the Chan to interview him on one lap on the famous Nürburgring Nordschleife. Him constantly overdriving this poor Alfa 145 QV was so funny. His control was beyond everything. Pure unadulterated fun.
He never learned proper English and that may have a bigger influence in working with the team that one may think.
Fisichella jumping the start in Canada was a bad error he could of finished 2nd or 3rd but finished 4th
Webber showed his potential 2009-2010. His extreme Sports thing showed he was more about being cool than winning it all. Tank Abbott in MMA was similar...choosing tough brawler image over winning it all.
DC beating Webber in 2007 was a mini version of the 1984 Championship. Somehow DC outscored the faster younger driver. Never has a driver been pasted in pace and qualifying like Lauda was by Alain and still won it all. Being out qualified by your teammate. 1.2 seconds to 3.1 seconds 13/16 races is something that would happen to Nissany if he had Leclerc as a teammate.
Webber was right there, Fisichella was similar to Albon in 2020...sorta acceptable....well apparently not to RedBull.
Fisi didn't underperform at Renault in 2005, he cannot drive something so ridiculously understeery that Alonos can. For years and years Alonso has got the better of teammates by pushing the car characteristics towards something nearly undriveable or against the driving style of his teammate. In a natural handling car Fisichella was untouchable.
There is also that the Renault was a little odd in how it was to drive it... Alonso had to kind of slip the rear quite often to go
fast.
The amount of steering alonso used in that car to be fast was what set him apart it looked almost wrong.
But its what it needed to get the job done.
@@zedfender9423
Because it was kind of wrong.
Had Alonso driven like that in any other F1 cars of that era, the results would have been awful.
That was actually a fear when he moved to Ferrari.
Personally rated Fizzy myself. Yes, wrong place, wrong time. The Ferrari drive, prob the worse dession of his life. Not have'n the say of how he wanted the car to be. Alway's wondered what happened to the car at Japan 05, when he was so far in the led. GO FIZZY!!
He wasn't sponsored by Tag Heuer...
#dontcrackunderpressure
So Fisichella was basically like Norwich City in F1.......
think about it, he drove for jordan 3 times and mild seven 2 times, total of 12 yrs in those teams
I was just thinking the other week that Alex Albon kinda reminds me of Giancarlo, seems to out drive a slower car, and kinda underperforms when in the Red Bull.
i doubt whether fisi would of won the 97 german gp as berger made his 2nd pitstop and remained in the lead. had fisi held up berger enough to win but the Ferrari F60 was a KERS car and no f1 testing and you didnt mention his near wins at canada 98 and Nürburgring 99
Looking at all this he's pretty comparable to Sergio Perez (overperformed and won in mid tier machinery) however i would say Perez has been stronger at his respective tom teams.
To his credit, Fisi might have been the best all-around athlete in the grid. He was by far the best football/soccer player apparently.
Solid Driver but just a victim of circumstance for me. wasn't as good as Coulthard or Webber but he was up there
I don't Fisi was underrated nor overrated. He was a solid racing driver but not spectacular. I still remember the day he got that surprise pole in Spa. Needless to say, the whole racing world was stunned!
He was best italian driver fisichella dont havd good cars only renault 2005
Giancarlo Fisichella was my favorit driver back in the days
I know you didn't ask but I'd rate him as remembered, but not quite memorable FWIW.
9:53 "Alonso was at his best" - queue "You sure about that..." sound effects
very interesting perspective on the subject of being born too early/late to peak in a winning car... . life is life.
Had to pause after the first sentence.. I’m not going to start a rankings fight but you gotta do one of these for Jean Alesi now. He was a killer in some pretty crap cars for his whole career. Looking at you Tyrrell, Ferrari, Benetton (although it wasn’t that bad in ‘96) and Sauber.
Would be an interesting video in terms of which side of Alesi would get the greater emphasis 🤔⚖.
I like Jean Alesi! 👍. However, what I struggled with about Alesi 🤨 ( or, more accurately, what I learned to love retrospectively about Michael Schumacher 😲 ( although I rooted against Schumacher versus Hill, Hakkinen and Alonso 😒👎 ) ), is that Alesi ( and Berger ) effectively swapped cars with Schumacher in 95/96, when the Benetton in '96, as you mention, might have still been a pretty good car ( and team ), and the Ferrari in '96 was . . . well, go listen to what Eddie Irvine said about that car. The video is called _"Legends of F1 - Eddie Irvine"_ on the channel called _"Racing Channel"_ and the timestamp is 25:54.
Yet Schumacher beat Alesi on both sides of the swap. The first time would have been expected. Benetton were building upon having finished 2nd in '94, and MS was defending the driver's title. After the 'swap' in '96, though, that's a little more difficult to explain without raising some questions about Alesi 🤔.
@@LowFatCurrantBun I think Alesi did pretty well in ‘96. He had close to Schumacher’s points and more than double Berger’s score! I remember Murray Walker saying in commentary that the big thing about Schumacher was that ‘he could get a car that shouldn’t win a Grand Prix to win a Grand Prix’.
I think Mr Milward should do a video of the ‘95 / ‘96 Ferrari and Benetton driver swaps and how each driver was performing before and after. I think it fits his channels style and that he would make a superb job of it!
It certainly would be an interesting video! 🤔. It would also be pertinent to a situation in today's F1 regarding a good driver in a good car but not necessarily matched to each other's strengths. Like Perez in the RB.
Alesi, to clarify why I like him, also took the '95 Ferrari to podiums galore and a win in Canada 🙌🏆. That Ferrari, in the presence of the Williams and Benetton Renaults of that year, had no business being up there ✋😒. Admittedly, it was a different age of reliability, but, as they say: To finish first, you first must finish 🏁. Alesi did, and did.
Why you haven't got a million subs is a crime.
Wurz in 1998 is criminally underrated. He was sublime.
Rephrase wiki, upload, pennies!
Why did people rate Fisichella so highly?
i really liked him and always wanted him to do well. i wanted him to drive his best every race but he only delievered his best twice a season. an enigma, what might have been. he's one of those guys mark webber said were more talented but didn't work hand enough. i don't know if that's why fisi didn't succeed but gosh i wish he did.