AND IT'S HAPPENED IMMEDIATELY! The Story of the 1990 Japanese Grand Prix
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- "I race to win" were Senna's words after he and Prost controversially collided in 1990 at the first corner of the Japanese Grand Prix. Some would say he was justified, some would say he should have been banned.
We know what happened in the race, but so much was said afterwards by Senna to maybe justify it, and it's quite interesting to read. But what do you think?
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Murray Walker - who it was said never had a bad word to say about anybody - did say in his autobiography that he never forgave Senna for this incident
He was a raging senna fan too.
@@AidanMillward it hurts more when you're a fan or a friend (there's a v good chance Senna considered him to be one because which driver didn't? 🤷🏻♀️). I was never a fan of Schumacher, so I wasn't hurt by his own nefarious actions. Had Damon acted like that, maybe I would not still be a Damon fangirl.
@@y_fam_goeglyd In concur. I was a fan of Schumacher. Gave him benefit of the doubt in 1994, but Jerez 1997 was a huge disappointment. I still liked him after that, but something was broken.
@@nehylen5738 What’s even funnier is the following year Schumacher came out of the pits in Canada and drove Frentzen right off the road and onto the grass, putting him out of the race. And he got a penalty for it.
Later that same race Damon blocked him down the straight towards the chicane and Michael was absolutely raging and calling Damon a dangerous driver. 🤣
@@AidanMillward he wasn’t necessarily a raging Senna fan, he’s said in interviews that he was a great person but never rated him above Prost. He said as much in his Beyond the Grid interview
Have you ever thought of doing a video on the Senna/Piquet feud, which seems to have its roots in their families being on opposite sides of the turbulent politics of Brazil in the earlier era. Bruno and Nelson Jr. however are friendly.
I had no idea about the origin of their feud. +1 for wanting to know more about this.
I knew there was one but never knew why. It would be a great video.
A Gordan Murray interview touched on this subject. Piquet didnt care for senna but i always thought it was the younger talent issue. Makes perfect sense though. Nothing divides like politics.
@Brian Boulter So in other words, Senna was Gatsby and Piquet was Tom Buchanan?
There's a long interview with Prost in the official F1 channel where he talks about those incidents. While talking about winter before 1994 where they got close, he said Senna had told him some things as a secret, and Prost said he wouldn't ever reveal. These things might be confessions, reasons for some things he'd done, or just about his personal life. After this interview where Prost litterally admits Senna as a part of his story with 0 regrets, I no longer feel the need to hate Senna because of his bad actions despite it being reasonable, just because they were finally in peace with each other. Prost himself doesn't hate Senna, he just hates the way Senna's fanboys portray his documentary's happenings as a hate crime made by Prost against Senna ( such as a villain), but this movie doesn't have the *rest* of the story, where neither of them are the villain, they just ended up as good friends, but both Senna and Prost's fanbases are still fighting to this very day about who's to blame for what.
At least it's not worse than what # TeamLH is nowadays.... what a dumb mess.
Tbf all the fanbases are areeholes today because of Twitter. Max fans tutting at Masi getting the death threats after AD but forgetting all the n word DMs and stuff that was being sent to Lewis after Silverstone.
Pointing fingers but not realising they’re pointing at a mirror.
Agree op, if someone is a senna fan and wants a good story about him… prost is the best place to get it. All drivers are humans and all humans make mistakes. The optics of that crash are really bad and it is the worst thing senna did to someone else. Senna still one of the best of all time. So is Prost without a doubt.
@@AidanMillward For sure! I've been laughing my ass off of the chaos that Zandvoort and Monza GPs generated on Twitter. It's fricking bonkers, reading hate comments there was never that funny since AD 2021..
@@pranc236 Reckless Senna fans will never realize that who knows the most about what happened before his death since Prost retired, *is Prost himself.* He carries much of Senna's legacy as his own family.
This comes from me, as a brazilian and a Senna fan. I've seen so much dumbness around brazilians conspiring against everyone else mostly in regards of his death... I bet half of brazilian fans don't even know the investigation about the accident existed, was concluded and closed. Some still think it's a ''mistery'' and that someone purposefuly killed him, that the FIA is a big mafa and all sorts of shite...
@@rigel8755 u are correct, im a senna fan too. The arguments seemed to be with ppl that only saw the doc on him. U cant get through to these ppl. I usually leave them with. He was very passionate and that will bring out the best and worst in ppl.
Would like to ask u about his name though. Ayrton… is it a brazilian name? Common or not. Its really the only thing i have not gotten in real information on. Thanks for ur time. 😉
This is amazing
I hate that the “no longer go for a gap” quote is celebrated as a racing philosophy instead of the pathetic excuse for an egregious intentional crash it was
I’m with Senna on this one. For the second year in a row the FIA was going to screw Senna out of a title and give it to Prost (see lining Senna up on the right side of the track as opposed to the left and in 89 when Senna was disqualified over some bullshit). Senna knew that if neither he or Prost finished, then Senna would win the title.
I call this an epic racing move to secure a world championship.
@@jaywalkallstarWhile I do think the quote is a bit silly, I do agree wholeheartedly with what you say. I don’t really mind dirty driving personally and I do love to see someone willing to do anything to win. Personally back in 2021 I was kind of hoping Verstappen would pull a Suzuka 90 on Hamilton to secure the WDC on countback.
@@Zezezeze69Well he actually did it in Monza '21. It just didn't have the effect on the championship because of the crash in Silverstone.
Fr bruh
Agreed. It was a bullshit top of the head quote to deflect Jackie Stewarts fair questioning. Running into Prost at 160mph~ robbed us of a potential epic battle for the championship. Not to mention it was dangerous and irresponsible.
I watched this stuff play out live back in 89 & 90. It was riveting. I was a Williams fan at the time and couldn't care less if the McLarens and Ferraris took themselves out. When Senna got back to the McLaren garage after the crash at Suzuka in 1990, the Honda mechanics were not overjoyed to greet him. They felt he had dishonoured Honda with the deliberate crash. He truly was a Dr. Jerkyl & Mr. Hyde personality.
Well, if you're totally honest Prost totally screwed Senna over by ramming him out of the race. After seeing that Senna continued the race Prost then ran to his "friend" Jean Marie Balestre to not just get Senna disqualified for that race so he, Prost, would become World Champion, but Prost's little talk with Balestre also got Senna's superlicense suspended for 6 months. Senna eliminating Prost to become World Champion was just payback and payback's a bitch.
@@tjroelsma Sorry, Senna rammed Prost in 89, going for a gap that wasn't there. I'll take James Hunt's instant opinion that the crash was 100% Senna's fault. of course all the Senna FanBois blame it on Prost. Regardless, no excuse for his cowardly act in this race, he should have had all his points taken away...
@@rogeeeferrari my guess is TJ was referring to the 89 event as the primary cause of the 1990 event
@@Pseedholm Thats what I was referring to as well, in 89 Senna makes a suicide move and rammed into Prost, totally Senna's fault. Regardless as I said, no excuse for his cowardly actions in japan 1990
I think Senna knew the dangers of the sport but, being such a religious bloke, he never thought it would happen to him. God gave him his talents, God would protect him. It's why he drove like he did whereas Prost became more about getting the car home. Senna was miles back when he went for the move in '89 but he believed he could pull it off. Prost wasn't going to move out of the way. It's a racing incident through and through, in my opinion.
Imho, Senna should've been disqualified from the season like Schumacher was in 97, this was a very big impact, luckily they both remained upright.
Verstappen 2021 as well
You probably weren’t even alive to watch it happen at the time… drivers had balls back then.
@@rs660alec by that logic: Hamilton in 2021 in regards to the Silverstone incident.
@@rs660alec your social activist Hamilton also passed Max off the track on lap 1
@@Gamebit257 Mr #BLM can do no wrong tho
I don't hate on Senna, but I don't hold back on slamming him either. He was one of the most gifted and hardworking drivers ever born, but he was also a spoiled brat in a lot of ways, and this was the biggest, most spectacular example of that. I also stand by my contention that a lot of the fandom remains bamboozled by his charisma, by his ability to convince you that, "something very important for the world was going" around him. That's the key difference between Senna and Schumacher imho.
Pretty much what I say about him. Massively talented driver but had a victim complex the size of the moon.
I have the same issue with Shoemuncher.
If he had been the same guy driving for Mercedes as he was the rest of his career he would have been a legit legend.
Instead he was just another Senna. Highly talented indeed but with championships he never should have been awarded.
Suzuka '90 is one of the pivotal points that people have questioned Senna's moral compass. Like you've mentioned, he cared a lot about the safety and well being of other divers, but to see him as the ruthless, win at all cost no matter what driver makes people beliving that he is contradicting himself, just because he was DQ'ed 12 months prior. Like you've also mentioned he also called Prost "coward" for putting a hard NO on him at Williams for 1993, but journalists again put his moral compass under question as he did a similar thing very early into his own F1 career. Back in the 1986 off-season Elio de Angelis left Lotus after 6 teams donning the black and gold and gave Colin Chapman's final F1 win before his passing in late 1982. Derreck Warwick was considered as a replacement, but Senna kiboshed the idea as "Lotus doesn't have the resources to maintain two cars equally challenging for the win" and stuff. Instead Johnny Dumfires was choses, but he and Satoru Nakajima (who replaced him at the behest of Honda, who were supplying engines for Lotus) were nowhere near close to Senna, who was the undisputed leader in a team that was slowly beginning its decline, which would lead to their demise after 1994.
Schumacher was disqualified "for less" is something that most people disagree. Remember that 3 years ago at Adelaide he collided with Damon Hill under very sus circumstances. The Michael was out, but Hill limped on to the pits when it was discovered that the suspension was kaput, meaning that Damon couldn't get the vital 1 point he needed and Schumacher won by default. Of course Williams tried to lodge a protest, but given the situation surrounding the investigation of Senna's death (since by the Italian law any death at sporting event is looked as it was a crime scene) it was thrown out. And back to Jerez, Martin Brundle (by then Walker's commenting partner on ITV) has said this: “That didn’t work Michael, You’ve hit the wrong part of him, my friend”. What Brundle was implying, was that The Michael was targeting one key part of the Williams - the suspension, which like Adeliade would've in theory given him the title by default (unless he was caught, which he would've had IMO) if Villeneuve's suspension was damaged beyond repair. But as we all know, Villeneuve limped on to finish 3rd (despite of allegations that Williams and McLaren had colluded), won the title and Schumacher got excluded for his troubles.
This is by no means a way to diminish the accomplishements of Senna and Schumacher, but they've had that darker side in which they were ruthless and were going to do whatever it takes to accomplish their goals.
However it could be argued that this darker side actually cost them championships. Villeneuve allegedly wouldn't have made the corner at Jerez in 1997 (something we'll never know admittedly), but Rascassgate was another matter entirely. Given Michael finished 5th at that race from a pitlane start, it is conceivable that he could have actually won, and the title momentum could have swung his way and not Alonso's
And I will go a little bit further. Alonso could have won the title in 2007 but because he let Lewis Hamilton get into his head, Hungary happened. He didn't need team orders to win
Yep. Senna called Prost a coward for vetoing Senna from Williams in 1993; but everyone forgets that Senna vetoed Derek Warwick from the Lotus team in the mid-1980s; which if you look at Warwick’s luck in F1 from the mid-1980s on with regards to drives, it could be argued that Senna’s veto of Warwick potentially destroyed Warwick’s F1 career. He eventually got to drive for Lotus when Senna moved to McLaren, but they’d long past their best by then. Then he just ended up stuck in struggling, tail-end teams.
Senna was at least as dirty a player as he accused others of being. He was just cunning at covering his tracks with it. Devious, he was. Devious. Atleast when Prost did things, he was honest about it. 💁
Yeah it’s called racing and being a champion. They are all ruthless.
@@mamavswild Damon Hill wasn't
TLDR
" Schumacher got tossed out for less " fucking right . The Senna worshippers in the F1 fanbase who shit on Schumacher are the most hypocritical people .
A very interesting note to the whole Prost/Senna saga is originally Ron Dennis wanted Nelson Piquet for 1988 (Piquet's Williams contract was ending in 1987 and was looking elsewhere) and not Senna. Alain Prost lobbied Senna to Dennis as he felt Senna was the future and a better choice for McLaren, even though Prost was friends with Piquet. So Prost was quite instrumental in getting Senna into McLaren.
Nigel Mansell also had a couple of altercations with Ayrton both on track (famously grabbed by the collar of his overalls at spa in '87) and in the drivers briefing (pre Barcelona '91. He's also gone on record as saying Senna was so good that he didn't need to be a bellend. Then there's the incident on the podium in Hungary' 92, where Senna was in highly charitable mood
Everyone seems to forget that Mansell was the only one at the time who could beat Senna fair and square on the track. It was a shame that he didn't have reliable cars during the period of Senna's ascendancy (1988/91).
I still to this day remember the day Mansell missed out on his first championship by half a point and blowing tyres on the back straight at Adelaide.
Heartbreak in my house that day.
Damn I'm old.
I know the crusade of Senna for security in F1. I knew this episode from 1990s Suzuka. But for some reason I never put 2 and 2 together and wondered "why this polar opposite reaction to everything he's fighting for ??”. This will be a headscratcher for me for quite a long time, thankfully hair is gone since more than a decade.
Great video as always, thank you.
“This isn’t hating or slamming”
Senna: “hold my beer”
*slams*
The last F1 podium without a European driver, and a real feel-good story for Moreno. Some people went home happy at least. And finally we can compare Senna's actions with some of Schumacher's more belligerent actions. If you did this in the early-era online discussions of the late 90s and early 00s, you were torn to shreds.
I remember . I took a lot of shit online in those days
Imagine if Twitter witnessed this as it was happening. Imagine the controversy.
Senna movie, they show a clip of him talking to Roland B... (not going to spell that) about starting on the left side of the grid. This is about the one hour mark (on Netflix)
Not sure what year it actually is, but it is framed like it was at Suzuka. Looks like it is actually Hockenheim which IF it is 1990 changes things a bit.
I feel this contributes to this story a lot.
I watched 1989 Suzuka live on ITV as a 10 year-old French boy obviously wanting Prost to win (my 2nd or 3rd GP, maybe?). I remember feeling that Senna was disgusting at the time. Didn't watch Adelaide or F1 until 1993 again as a result. Eventually I learned about this 1990 crash and felt it was bad, but not too much about it: it was just in my mind that Senna did things so, and that was "normal", in a way.
Eventually, when online video appeared, I could finally watch for myself, with all the knowledge I had acquired as an adult, after watching Ratzenberger, Barrichello, Senna himself, Hakkinen, Schumacher (99) crash very badly, or the stories of these guys having died from receiving a F1 tyre upon their head (Imola 94 and also Melbourne in 1999 or 2000, I believe?)
From then, in my mind, Senna had gone from "pretty questionable yet fantastic driver" to "absolute madman & bastard, despite being a fantastic driver", thinking how much he had endangered people on a whim that day. I both can and cannot fathom his personality cult.
I mean , he is also Hamilton's hero
@@jamesstewart1794 What does Hamilton have to do with OP's comment?
I have always considered Senna to be the most overrated driver of all time. Yes he was a good driver but he was also incredibly hot headed and an extremely poor sportsman whenever facing defeat. He would rather go for the attempted murder than allow someone to overtake (yes I consider using a car to purposely take someone out attempted murder, what else would you call it?). The guy was such a dangerous driver if he hadn't died he would have killed someone, most likely on purpose when he wasn't leading.
He claimed to be all about safety but actions speak far louder than words!!
8 days old? We'll forgive you then for not remembering. 😅
Had there been a Red Flag & a restart, Senna would've been in the same mindset, but Prost would have tried to suck him in & brake at the last moment, so that Senna went flying off from too much speed, allowing Prost to turn in late, & drive off to win the race giggling all the way. I would have laughed my arse off.
wouldve been hilarious to see that, either Senna would have gone straight off in that scenario or launch it around the outside since Prost would be braking early
While I deeply admired the talent that Senna had I equally despised his mentality, it's one thing not to care whether you survive but using that as a threat towards others is a whole other matter. The most irksome thing is that he didn't need to be this way, he had the talent to be the best without needing to be a loose cannon all the time
My thoughts as well.
I don’t know how people can defend senna in the 1989 and 1990 incidents. People who defend senna there really have no clue what racing is.
In what way is Senna responsible for 1989? For going for a legitimate overtake and then the other guy turning in on him way before the apex. He is totally responsible for 1990 but 1989 Prost should been DSQ from the championship for what he did, that would have set a precedent making 1990 unlikely to happen and Schumacher less likely to try to crash two championship rivals off as well. Any self respecting sports fan that cares about the integrity of sport and winning being achieved on merit, should be disgraced by the favouritism Balestre showed Prost, rewarding him for blatant cheating, an act of cowardice
Gosh you're young, Aidan... Really good video. This was the definitive rivalry of the sport, and it was a shocking heel turn by Ayrton. I think he never really got back his reputation afterward. I know we've all seen the Senna documentary but I'd recommend reading the book Senna versus Prost, by Malcolm Folley. It really delves into how the rivalry between the two built up over the years, and of course while sadly only Prost could be interviewed I felt he was fair and even handed in the recollections.
Senna definitely had a moral code and a sense of racing ethics, though I think he was the only one who could reconcile those with his actual behaviour on track in his head. He must have lived with a severe cognitive dissonance problem, which may explain all his outbursts and extreme emotional displays.
Saying Senna was mentally ill is another level...
A) That Jim Beam segment was the signature driving style of James Hunt. And he's celebrated for this.
B) Senna didn't lift but Prost DID close the gap.
C) The year before, the cutting the chicane decision was political. People cut chicanes all the time and it's OK if they don't gain advantage. Which Senna did not.
D) It can be successfully argued that Prost did the EXACT same thing in that final chicane collision as Senna did the year after. In fact, what Prost did was pretty much what Schumacher did to Vlilleneuve.
Brazilian and Senna fan here. I go with Top Gear Special on that one: Senna could be the most caring person anywhere else but when driving for the win he was absolutely ruthless!
Not 100% sure but from memory I seem to remember that even on his early F1 days he was already considered to be reckless and knew people called him reckless and hated being called reckless - I think I read this on his biography.
(Won't mention his accident with Brundle in F3 I think cause I didn't know that till I saw on Top Gear and though it clearly shows Senna was always like that my perception of him as a racing driver was from what I've seen on F1 only).
As for the 1990 incident yes it was a direct consequence of the 1989 accident and Senna's perceived 'everyone against me' mentality. Also I seem to remember Piquet sort of defending Senna on the 1990 pre-racing debriefing mentioning the 1989 accident and as said on the video they were less than friends so Piquet had no reason to say what he said - and after hearing this Senna stormed off.
Anyway all that was said on this video is pretty much my take on this. Just one quick 'trivia' regarding the Schumacher penalty years later: I remember reading (or seeing an interview?) where Schumacher said he did what he did because he learned it from Prost/Senna in 1989/90 and if they could win a championship by crashing into the opponent why wouldn't he?
And I believe this is why the rules were changed and he got penalized. Sure doing it twice in a row didn't help but saying what he said was the last straw...
Schuamcher was deemed to have done it in the heat of the moment and it not been pre meditated. Think he also got done in part to the fact he denied/lied about it to the fia as well.
Great Series and content Aidan. I am sure you wish to have watched all these races live as we oldsters did.
Ayrton Sena's dedication, passion and skill are something to be remembered..... his attitude is definitely a Brazilian trait to not be proud of, still one of my favorites!!!
1989: Prost took out Senna deliberately
1990: Senna took out Prost deliberately
People (particularly British F1 fans, for some strange reason) only think the latter was bad. Because Senna was:
a) Not a European driver (especially not a British or French driver)
b) Not a Ferrari driver
c) An intense, God-fearing Latin American landowners' sun
Most of the Senna hate has less to do with his driving and more to do with his character or whether people have a personal dislike of him anyway...
Mostly blatant take out? Is NASCAR not a thing?
Not a thing worth watching …
Unless he’d gotten a better start the second time after a restart, absolutely YES, Senna would have run Prost off the road again. The man was determined not to let Prost and Balestre get another one over him……… as he saw it.
Sorry but being a ginormous bad sport is ridiculous and EXTREMELY shallow for an athlete at the worlds highest level. Senna and Schumacher have this in common and they both have championships that were won from shameful tactics. Imagine how insane this would be if it happened nowadays. The driver would be kicked out of the sport for purposely crashing into someone to clinch a title
Michael Schumacher being excluded from the championship was always a bit of a hollow gesture, as he was excluded from second place, and nobody cares about second place. Would the FIA have disqualified Schumacher if it meant stripping him of the title? I don’t know that they would have.
The constructors title is where all the money is, but the fans really only care about the driver’s championship. Stripping McLaren of their constructors points and giving them a huge fine in 2007 was a big hit to the team, but their two star drivers still kept their points and were contenders for the championship. If they really wanted to send a message to teams, they would have penalized the drivers too.
I remember this race.. better than I remember yesterday's Italian GP.. cuz
(I'm an old fart now) ✌😎🏁
so long as its a redbull on the top step do you really need to know more? ;)
@@unfortunately_fortunate2000 it's Adrian Newey on top... Not redbull.
Honestly, I've never been able to understand the cult of personality surrounding Senna. No matter how charitable and considerate he was at times, he turned into a ruthless sociopath when the red mist descended and he would do absolutely ANYTHING to win. Admittedly, all racing drivers have to be somewhat ruthless, but Senna (and Schumacher) took that ruthlessness to a whole new level and I can't possibly ignore that personally. That's why Jim Clark will always be my racing hero. He was ruthless, too, at times, but he was always a good sport.
You said you don’t understand why he’s a cult of personality and then go on to in your same comment explain why he is revered in that way. It’s BECAUSE he was both. He was generous and considerate unless you were both sittin in F1 cars racing for F1 points.
Of course the Frenchman would loose on Oct 21st... Its Trafalgar Day after all!
I'd argue that the favoritism was towards Senna since he wasn't DQ'd like Schumacher. And since there was another race to run after Japan, a race ban wouldn't really be illogical considering that he put another driver at risk in such a blatant way.
Remember that this was the first totally obvious time it had happened, and again obviously, it was before _that_ weekend in '94 when the FIA went safety mad. Eventually. Because remember also that Schumacher didn't get kicked out for deliberately crashing into Damon Hill in the last race. He did exactly what Senna did, only fortunately at a much reduced pace during the same year that Senna died. But it was as deliberate and as despicable an action. (Yes, I'm a Damon fangirl, but I also was 50:50 - most of the time - regarding Senna and Prost. Neither men were angels!)
It wasn't really until '95 that extra rules regarding driving standards and safety in general would start to be implemented. Also, by '97 Schumi had done a few other dubious things and the FIA were put into a bind. If they didn't punish him for such a wanton act of stupidity and bad sportsmanship (or cheating, depending on your POV), doing it to someone else in the future would be more difficult and they didn't want to set yet another precedent. I think it was a combination of his actions on that day _and_ all the other dodgy things he did that got him banned.
It's not like he truly learned his lesson, as he blatantly cheated later on to keep his pole position, etc. I don't knock the man's talent, or his off-track behaviour, but he was no gentleman _on_ track.
A one race ban may not have made Senna think too much because he would still be champion in 1990 and nothing affecting 1991. A better solution may have been to ban him from the first 2 races of the 1991 season thereby putting at risk his ability to be champion again in 91. That might have got him thinking a bit.
Great video. Always look forward to your vids on the 80s and early 90s
Well, Senna also "believed" that gawd bestowed upon him the right to win every race he entered, so I'm pretty sure the FIA didn't agree to the switching of the pole spot.
Now we can wish you happy birthday ... 😅😅
In Senna's mind, Senna could do no wrong. It's what made him insanely successful, but let's be honest: On track, he was a bully. The weird thing is how he also was fighting for more safety in the sport. Schumacher was similar in that regard.
To answer your question that if there had been a restart of the race in 1990; would the same thing happen again? Yes, yes it would have. UNLESS, McLaren was threatened by the FIA to keep their driver under control or he could face a ban or a recall of his super license or a very huge penalty to the team itself. As you pointed out, Senna would act like he was Jody, Niki or sir Jackie and claim "he was all about safety" and then 2 minutes later run a driver into the wall. Many in Brazil try to paint Senna as a vctim of French-influenced FIA bigotry. Was Senna great? Yes, but with many, many reservations - his on-track antics did little to help the sport and people have to realize that Senna was very faulted and he should have considerd himself lucky for not killing anyone with his foolish driving.
This incident in particular is the very reason why I dislike Senna.
He was an incredibly talented driver. But had this attitude that the track was his and everyone else had to get out of his way.
He was more than fine with putting others in danger just so he could win.
Senna was a great driver who had a problem with sportsmanlike conduct.
@Rachel Wood Well, I would have been more accurate, but I don't want to upset any of Senna's fans.
A wise chad once said,
Senna… was pissed…
The excitement that Senna created when racing is totally missed in any forensic analysis over 30 years later. Whether he was the 'best' or not is subjective. Imagine dissecting the 2021 release or non release of the safety car in the final race in 2051 giving the title to Verstappen, it's just numbers and facts without the emotions of how you felt. Can't put a number on what a driver made you feel at the time...
Exactly. Well said
You really can't deny that Senna was a bit of an ass.
I was 29, and I remember that race, like it was yesterday. I couldn't stand Senna.
I like them both. The differing personalities is what F1 needs more of today.
senna was a raging maniac.. and was an accident going to happen
Senna was a weird dude, they're many examples. Monoco in 1988 where he couldn't get far enough ahead of 2nd place, Mexico City in 1990 he had this ugly crash because he hit a drainage just to see what would happen and why he turned into Tamburello on the last day of his life with wonky steering with so far to go in a GP is just insane
I remember watching the incident on TV, I was 35 at the time 😁 Not only did Senna put his and Prost's life at risk but also the entire pursuing pack of cars and drivers not to mention marshalls and even spectators. Senna may have claimed a close affinity to God but he certainly did not have an intimate relationship with the laws of physics that day. He should have received a life ban for his actions. His genius was flawed and indirectly led to the acceptance of the tendency of the "uncompromising" tactics displayed by other drivers since, e.g. M Schumacher for one.
I loved Senna...but of course he would have done it again had they restarted the race.
Senna had a massive habit of it as well, Nannini in 1990, Mansell in Adelaide in 1992. As a kid, i was a Benetton Fan and saw this as Senna way out of line, as has been said Schumacher got pinched for less. It also shows that probably until the 1997 Schumacher decision F1 was the wild west in relation to this stuff.
This situation happened as a direct result of NOT dealing with the situation from 89 properly. Senna's move in 89 was nearly IDENTICAL to Villeneuve's move in 97 for which you have no issues with. Yes 90 was Senna's fault, but you always down play the politics of 89. Every time you do a video on Senna it's a roast, which is interesting because your videos on Senna are your highest rating videos.
Where have I ever said Villeneuve’s send was okay?
Plus these aren’t roasts. You’d know if this was a roast because I really would be shooting to kill.
Ive watched many of your videos and a subject i think you should do a video on is the mystery death of henri toivonen although its a tricky subject ive been researching it for over 20 years been the crash site 4 times and although im no expert i can if interested ?
He did one on the deadly years of rallying which contained this sad story. However, I don't know if it's still up. The title will make it obvious if you want to have a look. HTH :)
@@y_fam_goeglyd yes true but with so much untold story out there which many are unaware of it would make an interesting video but as ive stated its a tricky subject but has many unanswered questions
Senna pretty much admitted he crashed on purpose. In his mind (speculation), there were no consequence for Prost crashing him out in 1989 so there shouldn’t be any for him either. Not saying these were in fact equal incidents but in Senna’s mind they probably were. And in both cases the championship was pretty much decided already.
Schumacher 1994 incident is a bit different. He had crashed to the wall and damaged his suspension. So in his mind (speculation) Schumacher knew if he’d let Hill through he’d lose the championship. But if he crashed him deliberately he just might get away with it if he just wouldn’t admit it and just lie. So it payed him off at the end.
Then the 1997 incident. There were talks before the race that there would be consequences if the same would happen this time. Schumacher knew if he’d let Villeneuve through he’d lose the championship. But if he crashed him deliberately he just might get away with it if he just wouldn’t admit it and just lie. The crash was unsuccessful so he lost the championship anyway. So he would just bullshit his way as he always did.
So to say for Schumacher there were consequences is not actually true. He won the championship in 1994 when he managed to crash Hill out and no consequences. He didn’t win in 1997 when he couldn’t crash Villeneuve out. The “consequences” were a joke. We make you lose a championship you lost anyway. Not even a race ban. Not one race. A fucking joke.
Who knows what would have happened had they both retired. I’d say FIA wouldn’t have had the balls to disqualify him in that situation as Ferrari pretty much got their way in all controversies from 1998 onward.
The most blatant attempt to take out a driver in any racing series? Two words. Dale. Earnhardt.
Murray Walker was brilliant on commentating on significant moments in F1 racing. And I think Senna used foul language more than anyone think. Which is strange seeing that he had a massive faith in God.
It takes you 16min to explain what Senna said himself: he deliberately crashed into Prost because he felt betrayed by the FIA both in 1989 for the collision caused by Prost (you're talking about fact, Prost turned much earlier than all the other laps when they crashed , and Senna achieved to overtake Nannini later, it's a fact) and for the non-compliance with the agreement voted during the drivers' briefing to move the pole position on the racing line (veto from Ballestre after qualy results). Of course what Senna did in 1990 still disgracefull but he already slammed himself for this, and Prost is in peace with it as well as 1988 !
One thing worth noting is that the collisions between Prost and Senna both in 1989 and 1990 were quite unprecedented. Not even the duel between Villeneuve and Pironi, the two Ferrari drivers who had a falling out in 1982 similar to Senna and Prost, had been this bad.
So indeed, the first time a driver was comprehensively punished (albeit to no material effect) was Schumacher after he tried to take Villeneuve Jr. out at Jerez.
As for comparing the two Prost/Senna collisions, I don't see much of a difference. The 1990 collision looks far worse, but it really wasn't. In all likelihood Senna was speculating that Prost would take a more conservative line as in order to avoid this kind of coming together. And Senna simply realized that he could take greater risks.
Quick note on the 1989 Suzuka/season recap. If Senna's win at Suzuka in 1989 had been confirmed, his bid for the championship would have stayed alive! The GP at Adelaide would have been a show down based on the following arithmetic: Senna 1st (69+9=78 pts), Prost 2nd (76+6-4=78pts) > Senna and Prost both end the season 78 pts, but Senna would have had 8 wins over Prost's 4.
Prost absolutely deserved it.
the 1990 title of course (and the 1988 one as well)
Had me in the first half ngl.
Heheeeé boiii
If they started that race 10 times, Senna would have done it 11 times.
Risky move, but he was committed and pissed, as always.
Amazing driver. Missing some screws in the head, though, as most good drivers are.
The champions photo in Adelaide 1990 had all the previous and current champions ( Hunt, Stewart, Hulme, piquet, Fangio, Senna and Brabham) without Prost. Prost said if there was 1% chance, he would say ok . . . But it wasn’t 1% . . .he hit my wing. The rear wing. . He didn’t hit my right wheel or the side of the car. . .he just push me from behind.
0:50 I am by no means a "Senna little widower", as they are known in Brazil, but Prost didn't quite -"slammed the door completely shut" in 1989, the footage from above shows he did pretty much the exact same thing Schumacher attempted on Villeneuve seven years later, essentially turning into the car next to him way before the turn, meaning, tried to knock him out of the race to win a championship because he had more points. As simple as that, and undeniable. What happened next was basically a total act of dishonesty from the French brigade, led by the FIA president, and it is totally understandable that an animal like Senna went off his mind with rage. Even Piquet, who dispised him took to his defense in 1990, saying --"what happened to Senna in 1989 was a complete fuckup". And it was. So, if Senna was to be disqualified from the event in 1990 because Schumacher was in 1997, then Prost should have been disqualified from the 1989 event in the Japanese GP because he did exactly the same thing, which means, Senna would not have had a reason to torpedo Prost in 1990, which I believe he did with gusto. Again, not a Senna widower.
Bury the hatchet?
Prost improved the Williams in 1994, and that benefited Senna. Had Ayrton lived, would he still be pals with Alain?
Hello Aidan: This was very, very interesting. You do this sort of thing really well. Thank you.
If you see a gap and you don't go for it, you are no longer a racing driver. I'm 55, my fastest lap at MK Daytona is faster than that Verstappen bloke, that Franchitti bloke, that Button bloke and that Hamilton bloke. And I won't go for a gap any more. So I'm done.
While Senna might have called Prost a coward for not wanting him on the same team, it helps to remember that Senna did something similar. In 1986, Senna was at Lotus and vetoed Derek Warwick's choice to be in the other car. He said it was because the team couldn't provide equal cars to both drivers, and he was contractually the lead driver. This is why at the last minute, Johnny Dumfries was hired and soon proved to be absolutely no challenge to Senna.
Warwick would never have a shot at a winning F1 car again. The rest of his career was in with a Brabham team that had seen better days, the perennial midfielders Arrows, finally at a Lotus only a distant memory from its glory days, and a return to Arrows as Footwork. Derek Warwick is considered one of the best F1 drivers to have never won a race
Excellent comment and a lot of people forget that. For Senna to whine about Prost having superior equipment in 93 was pathetic. When Senna won 3 titles in 4 years did he say, oh it's not fair, please give all the other teams Honda engines?? Lol, of course not!! Fairness is when I win, not you!!
Can you imagine if Social Media had existed back then? With the way people reacted to the Verstappen vs Hamilton battle last year with the public pressure actually forcing F1 to change rules and people in charge over what people thought they had seen. If it had been around in that time I doubt people like Bealstre or even maybe Prost would've remained in the sport, if all the Senna "fans" had made their voices heard as loud as they could it could've changed F1 entirely.
As an American, I have to say that Dale Earnhardt Sr taking out Terry Labonte at Bristol in both the 1995 & 1999 night races is right up there with this as the most egregious attempt to take out a fellow competitor in racing history. Dale Sr was known for driving "like a SOB" according to fellow NASCAR drivers and the list of his takeouts is too many to name. However the 2 incidents at Bristol I listed above are the most infamous & well known in his career so much so that they are included in his highlights package on NASCAR's TH-cam page. Unlike Senna though, Dale Sr didn't give a damn about safety in NASCAR so much so that when the HANS device was introduced to the sport in 2001, he called it "that damned noose" thinking he would choke during a crash if wore it. A few weeks after he made those comments, he was killed on the last lap of the Daytona 500.
I think Noah Gragson takes the trophy now, with his Road America incident.
I'd start running from angry Dale fanboys that'll come in here screaming about you desecrating Nascar Jesus. Dale was a dirty driver with a cult of personality that grew after his death. Dale was good, but not this mythical can do no wrong figure so many fans seem to think of him...
Much like Senna, come to think of it. I'm honestly amazed IROC never tried in the late 80s/early 90s to get Senna, they went out of their way to get at least one or two international drivers for a good few years after all, Brundle was in it for a while, Derek Bell, et al.
Oh....and Balestre used to make the rules up as he went along. So he favoured Prost and Ferrari and Renault. Getting Max Mosley elected as FIA President was a breath of fresh air from the alleged corruption of Balestre
Prost started it when they were teammates at McLaren claiming that McLaren was sabotaging him by giving senna superior equipment when in reality at the time, Senna was just clear of him. Senna just ended it, and emphatically. That’s racing.
Clearly Senna’s fault in 1990. But Schumacher had already done it in 94, taking Hill off for in Adelaide. Should it be his first title deciding incident in 97, probably he wouldn’d be DQ.
On the topic of the video, Prost was just the colateral damage in what Senna thought was a crusade against him by Balestre.
Yes, Schumacher was disqualified for less, but he wasn't disqualified for the 1994 accident ...
Of course this was a result of a desire by the FIA to handle matters in a very different way once Mosley took over.
As to why Schumacher wasn't disqualified in 1994, it is another completely different debate, but I think everybody had had enough during 1994 and everyone was just happy the season was over. Therefore, the way in which Schumacher was treated was different. The season was over, and it was better not to keep stirring the pot.
Senna/Prost was nasty at times and the 89 and 90 races in Japan proved it. But for Senna to basically say "I'm God and if you try to put race me I'll junk you" is frankly chicken shit. I've watched Motorsports for 32 years (God I'm older than you Aiden lol) and I've seen guys parked as you said FOR ALOT LESS. Sennas persona will be remembered as people see - Brazil he was a hero. Everywhere else? Not so much
Everywhere else by younger generations he'll be seen as a hero since the Senna family is making sure every media about him paints him as the saint.
@@TehMehKehIen "can't speak ill of the dead"
I see what you’re saying re Schumacher being kicked out for less… but - Schumacher was kicked out of a championship where he finished 2nd. Pretty much meaningless by comparison. Absolutely no way the FIA would have had the balls to exclude him if he’d succeeded in taking out Villeneuve in Jerez and won in 1997.
That 1989 move at the chicane was quite simply the nadir of F1. I cringe just thinking about it and wish I could credit anyone BUT Senna for committing it. He should have been banned from at least a race for staining the sport so badly. Championship? Bye-bye.
All previous evidence told me Ayrton Senna was an incomparable racing driver. It still does, in fact. But those two events tell me without a doubt that he was a bad human being who had phenomenal talent. A toxic narcissist driving an F1 car. That’s a very different thing and it’s permanent.
"Would Senna have done it again if the race had been restarted?"
Absolutely. It would have been interesting to see how the FIA would have responded to it.
This was one of the reasons why I disliked Senna. I ALWAYS felt he was a big mouth and was mad as h*ll if he didn't win. Yes, Michael Schumacher was no angle either, but he did do something really strange on a racing podium, he was excited that he won. It was like me when I won my first iRacing race, it had taken me 2 years, but I finally got that win, I was over the moon with that win. Prost was not and is still not a driver I like. I believe it was McLaren he just said one day he was not going to race anymore and left the team high and dry without a driver. That is what was announced at the Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach when they still ran F1 cars. The next year he was driving for Renault, it just pissed me off.
The "overpowered" McLaren was also in Prost's hands in 1988 and yet he lost the race to a man coming from 14th. And what's this "if you're a Senna fan or a Prost fan as in general racing fan"? You have no class.
Man appreciated that Hunt accent... It was close Aidan!
Senna was innocent he just victim of FIA and Prost dirty games.
I never raced at anything close to the level of F1, but I did race, and what I found was that there is a definite cognitive dissonance in drivers, particularly those capable of winning: they believe that safely is paramount, and they believe that winning is paramount. Those two, often mutually exclusive ideas exist simultaneously in the heads of guys like Senna and Prost.
Senna could not think of his actions at the Japanese GP as his responsibility because that would run counter to his absolute commitment to safety, but he also couldn't not take what he probably saw as his only path to victory.
It's Insanity, but it's a kind of Insanity that motorsports demands, encourages, and breeds. You can see examples in every discipline, though few as egregious as this, throughout the history of motorsport right up to today.
i was about 2 and 3 months, i dont remember this and all i know is what i have been told and videos i have watched on the incident, its good to get a full insight into it all in one video
A lot of young people rave about Senna but never saw him race! I did many many times and followed it closely. Prost's stats are better - simply better (apart from pole positions). It's just undeniable and to claim otherwise is to state the Earth is flat. It isn't. Senna was a dirty minded, spoilt, greedy little cheat. Prost is a 4 times world champion, who ultimately had the last laugh - didn't he?!
Senna was the Earnhardt of f1, successful, but as dirty as they get!!
I always find it interesting how Hamilton’s hero is Senna. If you had to compare his and Verstappen’s rivalry with Senna and Prost, Hamilton is closer to Prost and Verstappen is closer to Senna.
Japan 1990 was the end of a very long road of bullshit in the sport most of which the fans never saw.. Prost was a politician out of the car and with French FIA was always backed even before the senna battle. JMB didn't like Ayrton since Monaco 84 where apparently there were words exchanged as he thought flag was thrown to give prost win and block him. And threw 89 and 90 and even a little in 91 got out of control.. As big as a Senna fan as I am I dont agree with what happened in Suzuka 90 but after 89 and all thru 90 and the media bs I read all the year from prost it was always going to happen that way! The passion was real. The hate was real.
I find it interesting watching stories like this from fans like AM who use old research and stories to put out a story but didn't watch every race those few years bought every magazine and wat h every TV story to keep up with what's going on like I did those years then the season would finish here in Adelaide and I'd get to meet a few drivers , chat to mechanics hear thier stories and take on things.... quite different at times.
your channel is my antidote to all of the abysmal f1 channels that have cropped up recently. thanks!
Well done Aidan on what is a very tribal subject. It’s interesting that this brings out such contrasting opinions even after all this time.
I say Senna would've done it again if there had been a red flag. If he had, then the FIA probably would have done something severe about it as well. You can get away with it once.
Second time, Senna isn't World Champion no matter what the points say.
Here's a take: Prost had it coming, and Senna was wrong to do it. The world isn't a fair place, and sometimes you can't give AHs what they deserve without making an AH of yourself. This is rarely more true than in the world of open wheel motorsport.
Well.. jekyl & hyde side of sena...
Yes.. a very good honest and quiet person will NOT hesistate to retaliate and often do something extreme to get things better...
Although im no f1 driver... But i fully understood this kind of mentality...
Because im used to racing myself...
Which often racing quietly hammering laptime after laptime...
But at 1 point in bike race.. a guy pushed me over almost to be head on into pitwall barrier...
At that point, i hunt him down chasing him until he scared of his own shadow and eventually i pushed him the very same spot he did to me.. but this time.. he locked his brake and quit racing that session...
Im pretty sure he regret the decision to do the dirty move on me...
Imagine if this happened now, social media and media and fans on social media would make a flame war unlike anything seen before.
As always, your videos are so great!
See the driver briefing, piquet taking the piss, I think Ron Dennis joining in. Senna loses it. He was a prima Donna at times
controversy? there's no controversy. prost took senna off the track in 89 and then senna did the same to the frenchman the year after, and that's that. you do things here, you pay them here.
Totally disagree when you say Prost was more covert. Prost always spoke his mind to reporters - often to his detriment. Senna more overt? Tell that that to Derek Warwick!
I remember very clearly watching the race live on TV the tension was beyond measure, I feel privileged to has seen all the Prost/Senna races on telly as well as at the circuits.