Great episode, great topic. I have two thoughts on this topic. 1) I think that many of the people who accuse someone of having "nostalgia goggles" for a piece of media are suffering from what psychologists call a poor Theory of Mind. Theory of mind is something that individuals possess to tell them "Other people have thoughts, the same way that I do. But their thoughts are different from mine." There are many reasons why someone might not have a good theory of mind, including immaturity and neurodivergence/learning disabilities. People who have a poor theory of mind are often *quite shy* in real life. But on the internet, they're much more forward, because there are fewer social consequences at hand. Ergo, people with a poor theory of mind can show up and make these kinds of accusations much more often than, say, at church, band practice, or the softball league. 2) I'd like to pull a quote from my book on FFVII, about the MANY misunderstandings of its audience and message. "Some critics say that FF7 was originally popular because it appealed to an immature audience through immature themes. By tapping into the “teen angst” of its audience, it cemented its place in the audience’s memory in the same way that bad, old pop songs do. [...] Final Fantasy 7’s central theme is not about growing up. If anything, it’s the opposite: it’s about characters who are left behind with no meaningful identity after the world changes. [...] The original audience of FF7 interpreted-one might even say allegorized-the message of the game to be about themselves and their struggle to grow up. I would never deny an audience the right to see the high drama of a fictional narrative as a metaphor for their own lives. That is the very essence of catharsis. But FF7 is a game made by adults, and it reflects adult anxieties and concerns."
Im so sad i missed watching this one live, this was a beautiful video. The beauty and wonder of art is that it can make us feel things without us knowing why and its can tell us and shape us without us even realizing it. Someone could be nostalgic about something because it helped them get through a hard time in there life or a character subconsiously became there role model. Accusing someone of being "blided by nostalgia" and essentially telling someone there experience is irrelivant because you say so just makes the accuser come off as ignorant. Art is beautiful because it effects us all differently and art that made someone feel deeply and show them profound truths about themselves should be celebrated
Casen! It’s never too late to reach out to your friend, even if you’re not in touch anymore, and apologize/acknowledge you were in the wrong! You don’t know if he thinks about that argument often as well, and it might make him feel good to hear that from you. Maybe he doesn’t respond to it, but I wonder if it might also make you feel somewhat freed from the cringe you feel when you reflect on it. Humans are allowed to grow and change, and the world might be a better place if more people reached out to people they’d hurt and apologized. Think about it!
I'm only 12 minutes in, but this is such a great discussion, gentleman. love this dialogue and both of your views, ability to communicate them, and also tolerate/exist with each other in your differences. it translates so well to a podcast format and is very easy to listen too. for years you guys have had stellar content and deserve the support! thanks for this one, specifically. :)
It's funny to see that whenever they phrase the video title as a question, there are always a bunch of people who just want to give their answer in the comments section without actually watching/engaging with any of the discussion points brought up in the actual video they clicked on. I guess people just feel compelled to click on questions and give their takes, regardless of whatever it is being discussed.
Already dying at Casen’s snooty guy impression hahaha 😂 the new facial hair coming in adds to the persona. Taylor Swift said this great quote in an interview that I think is super relevant… “The worst kind of person is someone who makes you feel bad, dumb, or stupid for being excited about something.” Subjectivity, nostalgia, and emotional attachment shouldn’t be reasons that people disregard your opinion or your love for something!
16:50 I disagree with their statement of saying companies are using nostalgia. Yes games like FF VII have historical importance but that importance does not mean we should be constantly remaking it. The focus should be on making new games and new stories with maybe every 5-10 years seeing what of their library isn't easily accessible anymore and making them accessible in their original form as much as possible, and not just of FF and DQ games, but of even their lesser known games like Brave Fencer Musashi
I really relate to Casen with his story about arguing so hard about something just to argue and regretting it. I am haunted by similar experiences I’m not sure I’ve grown out of it I just love debate sometimes to my own and other peoples detriment.
Is an ego thing, that’s what it usually boils down to. The antidote usually requires epistemically humility and being able to navigate other people’s perspective. But that’s not a guarantee to resolve all of the tendencies nor is that realistic.
If anything, there's this shiny object syndrome people never call out, where some are always going for the new thing even though it's basically the same as the previous thing. A lot of people have been trained to not appreciate art enough for it to have an impact outside of the immediate present.
I question how true this is. People don't show every facet of themselves at all times. I would venture a guess the reality is everyone is on a spectrum of "I prefer older things" and "I prefer newer things." Personally, I fall on "I prefer to seek out 20th century novels, but I'll check out the occasional book from the past decade or two." Some might fall on that other end. Some might ONLY read classics (which I'd argue is as "bad" as this shiny object syndrome) while some might ONLY read new stuff. I would say those extremists are probably outliers, though.
I can't thumbs this video up enough! I will be sharing with many people because I'm SO TIRED of people using the dismissal tactics of "you're blinded by nostalgia" Thanks for creating such a valuable video:-)
I have had that nostalgic moments where I have went back and played games or watched shows again. It has actually taken away from it for me so now I just enjoy the memory I have of that thing.
Dude I got recommended your Resonant Archive video also titled the same thing. Is this synchronicity?!?! I'm going to enjoy this one thanks Mike and Casen!
The way i've always looked at nostalgia is that it's intended to be a whole package. It's about the time and the place, how old I was, what I knew and what I didn't and how it made me feel at that time specifically, regardless of the quality of the game itself. When I recall something with nostalgia, i'm not really even saying "this game was amazing". It might be, it might not hold up, I may never have even given it a 2nd go as an adult to compare. I'm recalling the entire feeling, like a heavy sensory experience of a specific memory I don't think i'm blinded by nostalgia because nostalgia is literally the point, it's appreciating that feeling, the whole package of how I felt, enabled by the time, age, experience, regardless of whether the game was actually good. It's supposed to be a personal thing and it's not supposed to be a "rose tinted glasses" thing, because it's a real experience you had
I mean seriously take into consideration context, environment, and many of those nostalgic feelings absolutely are valid both in the subjective experience and there objective significance. For instance ff6 + ff7, were the wombo combo that made me love the series even if i rank 9 above both of them. But they were meaningful and significant realistic emotional and objectively important content in my life that i deeply resonate and can recall as amazing life experiences for me as a child. Call it nostalgia, call it whatever to try and diminish its significance, but what’s the point of doing that? Normally people diminish the experience due to their own ego and bias and don’t realize the perspective people are coming from when they have these amazing experiences that later become enshrined in nostalgia. It is just the human experience to have these things and appreciate them for what they are.
No I don’t think so. I went on a huge JRPG kick to complete my backlog and often much older games like FF6, FF9, and Xenoblade 1 completely grabbed me and had me hooked while I couldn’t get into some of the newer stuff like Metaphor at all. I think there is something to be said for how developers had to make up for lack of storage space and technical specs with immersive gameplay and storytelling. The older greats absolutely hold up much of the time.
Idk if Metaphor is a fair comparison just because its different from other JRPGs due to the fact that is a schedule-based game which can cause a lot more downtime between gameplay, and slow the pacing structure of it sometimes like other persona games. So it really lives and dies by do you like the dating sim aspects of the game where you're raising social stats instead of battle stats so you can talk to other characters. And also it's just that games are really taking a longer time to release in certain genres, which is a bubble that I hope pops soon so we can get faster releases instead of waiting 5-6 years for an release to see if its even good or not. I think that kind of thing is diluting not just JRPGs but all kinds of stuff a bit too much.
It's just as easy to be blinded by recency bias as it is to be blinded by nostalgia. Thus rendering the terms/effects pretty useless. I do disagree with Casen and dislike the idea of liking something out of nostalgia, though, at least on a personal level, I do. Not because it's subjective (which I feel is the only way to judge something-- I HATE objective checklist people and find their approach misguided), but because I find that particular subjective feeling superficial/shallow/fleeting rather than truly powerful and lasting. (it's mostly just comfort posing as meaning/beauty, in my opinion-- in hindsight it feels like fool's gold). If something nostalgic DOES last and survive re-experiences (like FFVII, for me, to some extent), it's no longer nostalgia doing the heavy lifting anyways, so the effect of nostalgia ONLY serves as a nuisance that distracts/deludes you from your eventual true feelings, and wastes years doing that, in my opinion. IF it aligns with your true feelings, that's purely incidental, I feel. It's undoubtedly a present but EXTREMELY limited/deceptive factor not worth considering (at least not in subjective value judgements), in my view. The feeling of nostalgia is subjectively "overrated" =P. I would never presume someone is nostalgic if they insisted that they weren't, though-- it's a dumb argument, as dumb/disingenuous as presuming any other baseless influence. But also, if someone's outright embracing nostalgia as a point of pride, I would not have the "Yes! Exactly! That's great!" attitude Casen does. Instead, I would probably have a similar reaction to someone embracing that they love someone primarily because of how hot they are.
I get hounded online about nostalgia whenever I bring up Super Mario 64 or the original RE titles. Many hate them because they supposedly had bad controls or camera angles, but they instantly clicked with me back when they originally released and they’re still fun to play. Which is my argument: if said game was fun back then to me, most likely that stays the same if I play said game today and therefore not blinded by nostalgia.
I think your podcast is objectively fantastic and everyone should subscribe. I really do try to remove nostalgia as I like to replay games as if it’s my first time. That way, if I ever recommend an old game to someone, Im more likely to tell if they would like that particular game or not. I can say that some games I enjoy are definitely purely because of nostalgia. But in all honesty, I kind of know that already when I choose to replay them.
I feel condescension works both ways in these disagreements. For instance, I've politely said many times that I don't feel FF XII's story is the most engaging or the most emotional or interesting story the series has to offer and I've completed it three times so I know it, and you would not believe how many times someone has said 'well, you obviously just don't like mature political themes or just don't appreciate subtlety, go and play FF7 instead as it's more your level' (real quote) and I'm like 'Jesus, I've been playing politically themed games for decades, why would you presume that!?
Hey guys I just wanted to express my feelings and thoughts abt you guys in general more specifically lately I guess so I appreciate you guys and enjoy watching your content a lot your "filler" vids where you guys just yap abt random stuff and things in your own life's is really entertaining too just how much work you guys put into your content is so admirable and commendable I also love and appreciate how articulate you guys are and seeing you guys grow is so satisfying to see I found you guys through the NieR replicant podcast I cant say it enough its so fun to feel the passion you both have for games as a medium but to come to the main point I've been dealing with a lot of fears or like irrational fears sometimes even acknowledging how stupid your fears are won't really take the edge off unfortunately its kind of hard and embarrassing to talk about but basically I saw that Casen has been following/ liking really far right leaning stuff and all and that made me like quite uncomfortable because my brain at that moment goes irrational fearful just goes crazy thinking and fearing that pretty much nobody or most people will never really accept me not even the people I watch and feel so positive about because I was born a certain way and I just want to be normal obviously I don't want to stick out im not proud of my identity just want to fit in and I try to be optimistic but its quite difficult idk where I'm trying to go with this I just feel so conflicted and anxious and want to keep supporting you guys but idk yeah idk tldr idk
I hate when people bring up the "blinded by nostalgia" rebuttle because it's an an immediate conversation ender (and you cant often prove they are anyhow); there's no where to go once someone's made up their mind you've been compromised by nostalgia bias.
I sometimes get where people are coming from with the sentiment, truthfully I felt I was "blinded by nostalgia" when it came to certain things, but I do agree that making the assumption and trying to put people down for the things they like is generally shitty behavior and people need to do better.
If anything, there seems to be a widespread irrational appraisal of new things as being "better", even though no real comparative analysis of merits is being performed. It's just assumed that the writing in the latest Sony hit is superior to, say, a 1998 RPG in depth, maturity, substance, and style, only because it uses voice acting and motion capture and ambient contemporary cinematic score to drape itself in the aesthetics of "quality storytelling". Of course it's better, we've come so far in technology! Right? I think anyone making accusations of nostalgic myopia should first examine whether they're blinded by what is essentially technical parlor tricks
I don’t even know if it’s necessarily because of technology improving in and of itself, but young millennials and GenZ viewing the world through a technological lens. What I mean by that, is they assume that as time goes on, people only get smarter, meaning the inventions and art that they make is only better. Old masterpieces? No, they’re too slow and boring. Kubrick and Hitchcock and Kurosawa were just born too early; they didn’t understand how to make an actual good movie. The real sign of ingeniousness is being able to create art that releases a steady stream of dopamine and looks/sounds modern. I think that’s what they think
I mean I do think that by constantly revisiting something there’s the danger that you start to over idealize said thing. Because every revisitation something new has to be gained from it. And also this constant time devotion has to be justified some way. So a good thing can quickly become great and then exceptional. It’s also what maybe some people mean when they bring up nostalgia. I agree that using these kinds of sentences is low hanging fruit and it often makes one sound unlikeable. But at the same time I do think theres atleast some deeper truth to these head-butting engagements with these two groups on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Because constantly returning to a familiar and loved thing will probably increase one’s adoration for it ever so slowly. And because everything is already known you end up reading into things, praising the tiniest nuances and to a degree glossing over the few flaws it has. This then gets explained away as ‘charm’. And so you end up with a thing thats immune to any criticism or flaw finding. This wouldn’t be an issue onto its own were it not for the fact that this then clashes with newer iterations and those logically not being able to live up to this perfectly considered thing which is idealized and put on a pedestal. And so is used as comparison or at worst ammunition to tear down at the new thing. Thats when it becomes toxic. And you see this with current day remake and newer JRPG releases discussions. And it kind of stems from stuff like this. Where again the logic which was used here of “don’t speak of a thing you don’t enjoy and haven’t devoted any time too vs someone who has” could be used in its defense just the same. But rarely is accepted as an argument when people dismiss said newer thing based on their adoration of the old. Otherwise I don’t even disagree that the old stuff is fun to revisit . But I think it’s still more interesting to pose a counter argument rather than just posting the 301st agreement comment. That and I think there’s some deeper unresolved thing lying at the center of this all if the last 3/4 videos all basically circled back to bringing up FF7 yet again 😂
I feel nostalgia for things that had an effect on me. Blinded by nostalgia means blinded by art that changed me. Is it bad thing an artpiece has an effect on me? Isn't that what art is for?
well, theres a bit more nuance than that right? If you are enjoying the classics by yourself, nostalgia blindness is awesome. But if you are being angry and hateful to strangers for enjoying something new that you think has been ruined, less so. I am not saying you are like that to be clear, only that there are others who ACTUALLY deserve the term nostalgia blindness, where as usually its just a very normal and healthy thing.
This reminds me a lot of my feeling about the Star Wars Prequels. I was a kid when I watched all 3, the third movie was the first Star Wars film I saw in theaters and I loved watching those movies. As I got older, in my impressionable teens I saw how the internet and generations before me hated the prequels so, I thought I couldn’t like them, so I didn’t watch them or when I did id point out all their problems. I think the Plinkett Reviews were super influential in fueling the inherent flaws in those films. However, as I got older I realized, I still really like these films, problems aside, I enjoy watching them and still enjoy watching them. That doesn’t make my subjective opinion invalid. It’s gratifying to enjoy those films and not care about what people think now.
The Plinkett reviews are terrible though, and have almost no substance or valid reasoning to them, so I don't think they pointing out "the inherent flaws of the films" as much as pander to the lowest common denominators of malcontents and dragging the movies through the mud for reasons that had nothing to do with their quality as films one way or the other. While I think there are plenty of valid, subjective reasons why a person might fail to resonate with the sequels(like being annoyed by Jar Jar, or not liking the shift in aesthetics and tone etc), the Plinkett reviews are probably some of the worst faith, and lowest quality reviews I've ever seen for something that so many people apparently think highly of, or were influenced by, and it saddens me to this day that they managed to capture as many minds as they did with their tripe. I'm not about to argue that the prequels are the best movies ever made or something, but you should never be made to feel as though liking them is some sort of guilty pleasure based in nostalgia as though they're the Sci-Fi equivalent of The Room or something. They're not. They're competently made movies with plenty of depth and cinematic quality. Much more so than many films that don't recieve half the hatred the prequels did. Unfortunately, they were misaligned by a generation of man-children who couldn't accept that what George made wasn't what they had wanted out of the franchise.
Concerning objectivity vs subjectivity, I am quite suspicious of people who say things like "Well, THIS is my favorite in the series but THAT is the best one if I'm being honest." What in the hell does such a statement even mean? Something as important as morality is subjective from society to society and era to era, and you're going to claim with authority that art, something that is more personal, has some barometer where something is better than another even despite you not enjoying it as much? It makes no sense.
Its a nuanced topic. I love the first pokemon, but cant play the newer ones, even if they are objectively better. I have a hard time playing the ff7 remake. I could play xenogears every year. But i still love finding new games. So is it nostalgia? I dont really think so; i just think some things are better than others, and being new or more streamlined or fancier doesnt make it superior
I don’t think nostalgia should be criticized? Why? There’s nothing objective about nostalgia that gives it any room for criticism. It’s just a perspective born out of a human experience, a lens into one’s personal subjective experience with reality. It’s as reasonable as being a human with emotions. What is there to criticize for its existence. Also the ability to enjoy new things, that’s such an extremely deep rooted human imperative that nostalgia could never overcome. To experience new things, to grow is to be human, every second, every millisecond is a new experience. If nostalgia can inhibit one’s ability to experience new things…we all be undone.
@@henrytep8884 Well prepare to be undone, because there are many people who dont play new games, and dont watch new movies, and dont listen to new music ... because they prefer the media from the golden years of their lives. On a less dramatic note, sometimes instead of reading a new book I just re-read Jurassic Park for the 100th time because finding a great book can be tough. But if I never tried new Authors or genres out.... I would miss out on some of my favorite books ever. You are defending yourself as if I have a problem with nostalgia... I dont. I just think that its a mistake to let nostalgia prevent you from missing out on some of the wonderful new art that talented people are working hard on making daily. Not even going to say its dumb because I totally get it ... just a missed opportunity if you ask me. Also I want to be clear... when I said criticize about nostalgia I hope you understand that I meant in the context of a persons experience with it. This channel is honestly all about taking beloved things and criticizing them in a constructive way. Dont be so defensive, all facets of human thought have nuance and are worth considering.
@@AntonioCunningham exactly. My point is that when you are searching for great art you should not close your mind to new or old things. Its fine to then decide you prefer the other... but I would say that people from both sides would be surprised at how much they enjoyed the other
So you know how in cartoons they usually say "xyz sucks" to crap on something? There's this joke in gravity falls where maybel writes "Sev'ral Timez is Overrated" to enrage a passing driver that I immediately thought of when you mentioned that
been saying for years ff7 has one of the best OST of all time- im glad remake and rebirth got the praise and awards for it (rebirth even won the award for best music and score) and yet people think that we love ff7 just for the nostalgia- no the music is timeless and 10/10! my top 3 favorite games are: ff7, witcher 3 and persona 5. I am willing to defend great games WHILE admit newer are better than my childhood memories as well (still love mario 3, mario 64 and final fantasy 9 a ton BUT counter-strike, world of warcraft etc are so much better no matter what "Kid quez" wants to believe)
I love the subjectivity talk at the beginning of this. THANK YOU for this video. Nostalgia is a term people drop when they don't know how to discuss the elements that make up a given project in many cases. It's where discourse goes to die lol. A reductive and clumsy arguing point.
I think there is something to be said about experiencing something when you've never experienced anything like it before. The "first" factor. Your first kiss was not special, as kisses go (it was probably quite sub par in fact), but it is special to you. Most people's favorite Final Fantasy will be the first one they played, especially if it was the first JRPG you played (as FF7 was for most Americans of a certain age). I think of jaded movie reviewers, not being impressed by a well made movie that has no new ideas. Most people are not film majors, a new popular film will introduce these old (but still good!) ideas to a ton of people for the first time. These films become all time classics. I experienced this with Takahashi's Xeno games. When I played Xenogears, I had never taken a philosophy course, never watched an anime more sophisticated than DBZ, never cracked open a popular science magazine. Takahashi and his interests were completely alien to me. I will never have that much new stuff introduced to me that quickly ever again (short of being abducted by actual aliens). Then I play Xenoblade 1 and 2 as an adult and it just didn't hit the same. It was clearly made for a younger audience and didn't have as much to offer me specifically. But those games are much bigger than any Xeno game that came before it, and it blew many young minds. To me those are just solid games, but to those young gamers that's their Xenogears. I did love XB3 though, so I'm not doomed to find all new things derivative and meh, at least.
4:20 discourse like that happens when people comparing or pitting a product against each other right? The discourse between remakes are a perfect example of it. The final fantasy vii discourse really show the bad on both sides.
Okage: Shadow King is still my favorite JRPG of all time next to Terranigma, which I always thought was exclusively a nostalgia pick. Then recently I got a buddy to play it and it ended up being one of his all time faves. I revisit the game now and then, and it really is lovely--nostalgia aside. It's such a lonely and introspective little universe. It's a shame that no one played it. Though Sony still holds some secret love for it, as they ported it to PS4 for whatever reason even though like 15 people probably bought the port.
In my experience it often comes down to just how clearly I remember the game. If I remember it very clearly then the likelihood of the replay quality matching my memories of it is usually pretty good, very rarely is a game worse than I remember it. If anything, the inverse is FAR more common, where I remember something being less good actually ends up being a lot better on second playthrough because I'm just older and better able to analyze and catch on to elements of the narrative or gameplay design that I never noticed before and I end up appreciating it more for that reason. I think that's one of the running sentiments I've heard both Mike and Casen repeatedly bring up throughout these series too.
My theory on "objective" being used incorrectly when describing art is that a lot of people who discuss games feel really strongly one way or another and aren't comfortable with the idea that they aren't neccesarily "right" to feel that way. I think this because not only do people believe "objective" is above "subjective", they'll also use the word objective to describe *their* opinions and subjective to describe opinions they don't agree with.
People who oppose objectivity tend to assume the person who is using it means they have the correct opinion, when it only means substantiated, it just means they have a logical reason to hold that opinion,. It can be correct, it can be wrong, but it never means to be absolute, and I think people should stop being so offended by it.
@@ProxyDougreally? Do we want to play this word game with the term objective? When did objectivity mean substantiated by logical reasoning that is an opinion? That’s contradictory. Also objectivity has nothing to do with logic or reason, it has everything to do with observable facts and evidence. No logic or reasoning is behind, just the cold hard material reality. Measurable and observable and “real”. Logic and reason are the opposite, based off human abstract thinking, even worse, based off human subjective conscious experience with sensory experience.
@@ProxyDougby definition objective means absolute. I see an apple, it objectively exist, but that’s why i don’t get into trying to tell people what is objective in a transjective or subjective endeavor such as art.
I am so blinded by nostalgia that I am unable to enjoy new things sometimes. I have memories so so beautiful that I feel actual physical pain sometimes knowing those moments are gone forever
To play devil's advocate: being unable to recognize your nostalgia biases can become problematic when you're recommending games to others. For example, I'm a huge fan of OoT. I've beaten it about 30 times. However, I would never recommend it to my 10 year old nephew. I know that a significant part of my enjoyment stems from the fact that I played it as a kid, and I know the game's poor aging would negatively impact my nephew's experience. Not everyone is self-aware. As you get older, time becomes your most precious commodity. As such, it's natural to become much more discerning with game suggestions.
Sometimes it's hard for me to tell if it's nostalgia or it the game was genuinely good. For example when you were talking about game intros and brought up Kingdom hearts , I had the same exact thoughts every time I go back to it. I have a similar thing with the wind waker as well. Both of which are games I grew up with, so it's hard to really tell if I'm being nostalgic.
I can say I am definitely blinded by nostalgia when it comes to mmorpg’s without a doubt. Other genres not as much. But I played mmo’s mostly between 2002 to 2008 and there are so many people my age trying to recapture what it was like to play those games back then when it’s really impossible to truly achieve that. Plenty of reasons why, but I believe the main reason is because the concept of being able to communicate with people 100’s and 1000’s of miles away was still pretty new. And there really weren’t direct ways to communicate with people instantly unless by phone really. Definitely could not do this on a mass scale. It made communication with people not only imperative but it was still fun to do so. And you could do so with anonymity and truly play out a role. I mostly played eqoa and final fantasy 11 and you absolutely had to know how to communicate to really get anywhere in those games. Just not something that can ever be recaptured quite honestly
Overrated is the most overused term in media. I hate it. What does it even mean? Too many people like a thing that you don’t? You like a thing more that has less exposure than the more popular thing? I think the term underrated has far more merit, because a game may just not get the sort of coverage or marketing to put it in front of more people that might love it if only they knew about it.
"Overrated" and "underrated" basically mean that the praise or lack thereof a piece of art has is undeserved. That people should not enjoy it the way they do, and if they don't enjoy it to the degree they "objectively" deserve, then there's something wrong with them. They have "bad taste". Which means they are inferior in the art pecking order. That's what those terms mean.
Dude, being a big Beatles fan in 2024 is crazy. Although, of course, they still have a lot of fans worldwide, every discussion I see about them on posts dedicated to the topic always have a ton of comments with people saying they’re overrated. Like, except for the hottest new thing that just released, I’m pretty sure Beatles mentions see that word thrown around more than anything else does. Well, FF7 is up there too, which I also dearly love. I think part of it is younger generations experiencing these things without any context or history, and they aren’t using the right perspective to enjoy these things - - they’re using a more modern lens of how things are done instead and immediately assuming that because their perspective is more “modern”, they are correct… They think that the idea of technology always improving objectively can be applied to art in the same way. At work a dude in his early 20s said he didn’t watch movies made from before 1990 because “the graphics are bad”. I called all this left brain syndrome, that people are living too much based on this shaky idea of progress, logic and objectivity instead of engaging with the subjective and abstract.
I feel this mainly pertains to games from the third and the 5th generations. The thought being that games in those generations didn't age as well. But as a near 45 year old man, gaming since the mid 80's, I can still have a blast playing those games from the NES, Sega Master System, PSOne, Saturn, and N64. For 3D games from that generation, sure the controls have improved, and textures, and collision detection, etc. but I can always have fun playing Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy VII, and so forth. The imagination and joy I had back then playing those games hasn't escaped me. Never will. Some games may not hold up for me but it's not a rule that I shouldn't like other games from that time because I'm blinded by nostalgia. I am going through Lunar on the Sega CD and I'll be damned if it still doesn't give me the feelings of joy that game did when I was young. Even with a more updated version from the PSOne being available. The music. The story. It can be timeless. For me. And that is not just nostalgia. Hell, it can be a beautiful thing as art is subjective and nothing wrong with that
Ive completely become numb to nostalgia these days. I still look fondly on past experiences but don't use them as a barometer to judge what I like and I don't fawn over old games or try to defend them anymore. I'd rather focus on individual experiences and fuctionality.
With the exception of Elden Ring and Resident Evil I've not been drawn to replay any games from the last 4 years. Replayability outside of competitive online games is such a lost art in the AAA space. I even prefer the replayability of 360 era games - a generation I didn't appreciate until afterwards
I disagree. Not saying that stuff wasn’t good that people is nostalgic for, I’m just saying not EVERYTHING you might have nostalgia for is “good”. Maybe I’m wrong as it’s all just personal opinion, I will admit I tend to look back more on the good stuff from back in the day than the bad stuff I spent just as much time with. Like I have a lot of nostalgic memories of the game shadow the hedgehog, and man is that game a dumpster fire. But I won’t say I didn’t think it was one of the best games as a child lol. Idk if I made an actual point or just rambled! I apologize if this is just an incorrect mess
Thank you for the episode! i've been debating about it with friends for the past years. It's really been frustrating for me. The words overrated and rose tinted glasses are so overused, the meaning has been lose. We can as much enjoy art from the past and present or looking forward to the future. The more broader perspectives we have, the more experience we have so we can understand ourself and other better. Sorry i've made a lot of writing mistakes. english is not my first language.
It's because as an adult I'm curious what other adults are able to appreciate. Whereas it's less useful to hear from someone who has nostalgia, because as a young person everything is more magical - even bad games. If someone enjoyed FF7 as an adult, then I'm more likely to find their opinion closer to mine because I'm an adult and also didn't play it as a child.
For me being blinded by nostalgia is liking something that hasn’t aged well but still loving it as more of a guilty pleasure. I think though that the person feeling that way has to acknowledge that it didn’t age well, or else it just doesn’t really fit. Otherwise it would just be a “classic” instead. For example I love a lot of 90s and 00s movies that have aged badly that I wouldn’t necessarily recommend to someone who hasn’t seen them before, but I might still watch them again for the sake of enjoyment knowing it has flaws. One example of an older movie is every winter I’d watch Love Actually. Every single year it feels just a bit more cringe and the problems with it grind just a bit more. I’d be reluctant to recommend it, but I’ll probably keep watching it until something else sticks out enough to take its place. If someone asked why anyone would like Love Actually I feel like my defense would be, well it was good at the time. I feel like Labyrinth is another movie that aged badly (it was weird enough when it came out too) where you really had to be there. 😅 Edit to add, I also feel like nostalgia can be being tied to something whether it makes sense or not. Example my husband has gotten into collecting physical media (I’m all on board) but to the point of preferring dvd copies over Blu-ray for movies. To me this serves no logical purpose unless there is content that wasn’t reproduced in the Blu-ray version. To me at least this can only be a matter of nostalgia cause why would anyone watch something lower resolution? It’s all just preferences though so best to let people have what makes them happy.
I kinda disagree with the very concept that media can "age badly". I think when people say that something they liked aged badly and they no longer like it or regard it as a guilty pleasure, it often means they just went along with the mass opinion at the time and now they either formed their own opinion or just shifted their opinion to align with the current mass opinion. It's a bit disingenuous either way.
@ It doesn’t have to be disingenuous. Think about how people get nostalgic for their first car. If they get a chance to drive the same car again it can be a fun reminder of what things used to be like. People can still like parts of that experience while absolutely wanting to leave it behind for newer and better things. Just by the nature of things moving on I’d argue that the majority of things that aren’t “classic” have basically been deemed as aging badly, but they can still be genuinely loved by someone. What do you consider nostalgia to be?
I like the ideas, but I think it goes both ways. I truly have disgust for some things on a nostalgia lvl, as it impacted me when it came out in negative ways. I can admit that FF8 is objectively a good game, while hating it due to nostalgia.
Nostalgia plays a part in it yes, but it doesn't take old or fresh eyes to see that the state of the medium has gotten worse. Well, the tech and play is good but the business side is greedier and ruthless than it was. And it was already pretty greedy at the start! Plus the whole "objective" and "overrated" terms can go straight to hell. Can't stand that argument. They've ruined how people approach and engage with art.
I am guilty of saying stuff similar to this but I usually approach it in a way where I'll openly admit I don't understand it partly because I just don't have the context of the time in which that thing was released. So FF7 for example, its a game I enjoy but I don't think its this masterpiece people 10 years older than me usually think it is and I think part of that is because I wasn't there when it released, sure you could say you play it often enough that theres no way nostalgia has anything to do with your love of the game but you were still there when it released, you understand how popular it was when it released, how revolutionary it was, etc. in a way I will just never be able to. I won't knock someone for that tho, its more just an explanation for why I don't feel the same way they feel. Now, I say all this because, as someone on the other end of this, growing up on the internet was super frustrating when it came to nostalgia. I'm 25 years old, I'm part of the first generation to largely grow up with the internet which means I was using it as a kid, with my kid brain and kid-like understanding of the world. Something that used to annoy me as a kid was that 90s kids (yes it was 90s kids, you'd get the odd 80s kid but they were never anywhere near as bad about this) would CONSTANTLY go on about how their childhood was "superior" to my childhood. It was super frustrating because I KNEW they barely touched the stuff I was growing up with at the time and just wanted to act superior but I was also too young to understand that they were just a vocal minority and that most 90s kids weren't like that. So kid me from 15 years ago just thought all 90s kids were blinded by nostalgia and tbh I held onto some resentment from that for a while. Looking back I obviously know most 90s kids weren't like that but I will say the ones that were truly were blinded by nostalgia (or their past experiences if we want to use words more accurately). Thankfully I don't see as much of this anymore (although when I do see it its somehow still a 90s kid after all these years).
Would you rather see something you've never seen or a 6th iteration of superman again. Nostalgia is good but let's not be so general that we ignore that it stagnated creativity for the sake of cashing in on fond memories.
I dont see blinded by nostalgia as something bad, it is a driving force and makes one feel good. The indie game scene would probably not be as strong as it is if it wasnt for nostalgia. Disclaimer, i have not had time to listen to your conversation yet, my comment is based on gut reaction upon reading the title.
I'm normally nostalgic about the games I've played in the past. However, there are some games I enjoyed at the time that I don't care for at all now, e.g., FF8. Not sure why though. I still love FF6 and FF7.
We live in an era of endless remakes, remasters, and sequels from classic franchises. Nostalgia is a good thing in itself. The problem is, it has been heavily commodified in recent years, and the market is too oversaturated by it.
This idea of a person's subjective opinion having no value comes from the popular idea of relativism. That everything is relative. Which ironically comes from the rise of science and the hyper focus on the objective reality that scientists and intellectual elitists tried to strive for. By trying to strip reality of its color and perspective due to seeing it as just getting in the way of seeing reality objectively, they actually made it more difficult for us to see reality clearly. Scientists are not free from bias and perspective themselves. We see both objective reality and subjective reality. The subjective is the lens through which we see the objective world and we learn about the objective world because our subjective mind allows us to focus in on things in the objective world.
From the beginning it felt like a response to criticism of FF7 being number 1 in the last video. I think, and I can't speak for everyone, that people use "overrated and nostalgia" specifically for FF7 because the game was so many people's first JRPG and first Final Fantasy in the late 90's and early 2000's. It's the Final Fantasy that got the most spin offs, crossovers and cross-media projects (Also why people say SE milks it/cash grabs) and it rubs the people who are not that much into it, or the Nomura games, the wrong way. There's also this strawman of 7fans that they never played other games in the series, that they will buy anything related to 7 etc. I personally am In the middle. 6 was my first and still got a special place because it was my first but 10,12, 4 and 1 are also in my top 5 mainline FF. 7 was fun and a huge step but I think SE could give other games love as well.
I usually use nostalgic feeling about the games that i like to restore my interest about playing games in general...i played jrpg everyday at least 2-3 hours a day for 19 years and whenever I'm feeling burnout i always play grandia,dq games or breat of fire 3/4 to cure it...this year is great for jrpg i finished a lot of games like p3r,like a dragon iw,trails to daybreak,unicorn overlord,methapor,ys 10,saga 2 remake and all of them are great game,but after finished it i feel burntout and funny thing is dq 3 hd is next...and after played that game for weird reason I'm feeling rejuvenate to play jrpg again now i'm replaying Xenoblade 2 lol.
I am not blinded by Nostalgia. A lot of people just refuse to give any good thoughts or praise to newer things. I prefer a lot of new JRPG versus older ones with the exception of Final Fantasy. I prefer old FF over newer ones. A lot of other genres as well I prefer newer games in a lot of franchises. I prefer new Pokemon now versus older Pokemon.
Who are you to make that judgment though? How do you know they’re just not allowing themselves to enjoy new things instead of just legitimately not enjoying them? Are you sure it’s really a lot of people and not a vocal minority?
@@Y-two-K where did I say anything about making judgement or judging anyone? This is what I see online all the time. People claiming they will never pick a newer game over a older game which them lying to themselves or that older games are always better when that is not the case for a lot of franchises.
Ok before watching this video, yes. I recently played ocarina of time with my kid, and I found it very boring. In my mind this game had so much choice and openness, while replaying I realized this was my child memories not letting me remember how the game actually was. I have also replayed games that really flew over my head as a child. Edit: On the subjective and objective front. I find the objective part uninformed. Objectivity can’t really be a way of judging experiences, it is better to explain what objective facts led to subjective conclusions, in the hopes that people understand the experience. One is not better than the other, just a way to provide more accurate explanations.
Interesting topic though I find your stance a bit reductive, dismissive and one-sided. There's times when it's a fair assessment especially with the hipsterish trend (particularly on yt) to overhype an old game and toss around terms like "underrated" and "hidden gem." Oftentimes just hand-waving off legitimate criticisms. When you don't even want to engage with the legitimate flaws of something then I do find it fair to assess that "blinded by nostalgia" is valid. I do feel like a lot of these just want to engage the crowd that loves holding the contrarian opinion though and ultimately, I just don't care. You can like what you like and I just don't have the energy or interest in yucking anyone else's yum lol. 😅
Telling people that the games they love is overrated, is overrated. :o I am Not a fan of FFVII but other than giving my friends crap about how much they love it ya know, just ribbing them. I dont tell others they are wrong. I dont like it but many others do and that is ok. I personally actually like the remake trilogy so far. A lot of OG fans don't and that's ok too.
@@Norel_Nieves overrated doesn’t make sense as a term. It’s literally just a way to shut down people when they say they like something that you don’t. Sure, it’s “fine” to say something is overrated in the same way that it’s “fine” to say someone is stupid or distasteful for liking that. I just don’t see how it contributes to any kind of meaningful discussion.
No, and thank god i got over Nostalgia. I used to exclusively play JRPG games in my childhood and teenage years. But little by little i gave western games a chance, starting with baldurs gate 1 & 2, then dragon age origins etc etc. Imagine being an rpg fan and never playing Witcher 3, because is not japanese or turn based ? 😂 P.S: i agree that nostalgia is not bad, but blind nostalgia is. For example Xenogears is my absolute favorite game ever, but im objective enough to know is not a top 5 all time rpg title 🤷🏻♂️ There is a difference between my favorite and what the best Is. And yes FF7 is overrated, nothing wrong with that.
@MrDadeadone 13 had atb, turns. 15 was a chance to to try the Kingdom hearts thing, to no avail, 16 was the one where they went full Witcher action RPG, doubling down instead of learning from their mistake. RPG players want RPG combat, not devil may cry nonsense, our fingers aren't that fast too begin with 😩 😩
I mostly agree with the sentiment on the video, but I do think there are cases where you can just say to someone, you are blinded by nostalgia. The case is when you have interacted with the piece of media, presented reasonable and at least moderately consensual arguments, and the person can really cede no ground at all. There are really cases where people cannot see any criticism or flaw in a piece of media, even though it's clear a case can be made for several to exist.
No I'm not blinded by nostalgia, I'm consumed by it. Molded by it
Well said... Ocarina of Time shaped me to the person I am today.
I didn’t see nostalgia til I was already a man and by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING!
@@derrickpanciera5644You comment like a younger man!
I didn't know Nostalgia until I was a man.
this rant was so great I'll be blinded by nostalgia for it in a few years, mark my words
Great episode, great topic. I have two thoughts on this topic.
1) I think that many of the people who accuse someone of having "nostalgia goggles" for a piece of media are suffering from what psychologists call a poor Theory of Mind. Theory of mind is something that individuals possess to tell them "Other people have thoughts, the same way that I do. But their thoughts are different from mine." There are many reasons why someone might not have a good theory of mind, including immaturity and neurodivergence/learning disabilities. People who have a poor theory of mind are often *quite shy* in real life. But on the internet, they're much more forward, because there are fewer social consequences at hand. Ergo, people with a poor theory of mind can show up and make these kinds of accusations much more often than, say, at church, band practice, or the softball league.
2) I'd like to pull a quote from my book on FFVII, about the MANY misunderstandings of its audience and message.
"Some critics say that FF7 was originally popular because it appealed to an immature audience through immature themes. By tapping into the “teen angst” of its audience, it cemented its place in the audience’s memory in the same way that bad, old pop songs do. [...] Final Fantasy 7’s central theme is not about growing up. If anything, it’s the opposite: it’s about characters who are left behind with no meaningful identity after the world changes. [...] The original audience of FF7 interpreted-one might even say allegorized-the message of the game to be about themselves and their struggle to grow up. I would never deny an audience the right to see the high drama of a fictional narrative as a metaphor for their own lives. That is the very essence of catharsis. But FF7 is a game made by adults, and it reflects adult anxieties and concerns."
Two great points, Pat! I wasn’t aware you wrote a book on FF7, I’m gonna have to look into that!
@@Y-two-K Obviously any link would get crushed but it's called Reverse Design: Final Fantasy VII.
Indeed. It's sad to see how much people continually latch onto takes from 20 years ago and refuse to grow up.
Im so sad i missed watching this one live, this was a beautiful video. The beauty and wonder of art is that it can make us feel things without us knowing why and its can tell us and shape us without us even realizing it. Someone could be nostalgic about something because it helped them get through a hard time in there life or a character subconsiously became there role model. Accusing someone of being "blided by nostalgia" and essentially telling someone there experience is irrelivant because you say so just makes the accuser come off as ignorant. Art is beautiful because it effects us all differently and art that made someone feel deeply and show them profound truths about themselves should be celebrated
Casen! It’s never too late to reach out to your friend, even if you’re not in touch anymore, and apologize/acknowledge you were in the wrong! You don’t know if he thinks about that argument often as well, and it might make him feel good to hear that from you. Maybe he doesn’t respond to it, but I wonder if it might also make you feel somewhat freed from the cringe you feel when you reflect on it. Humans are allowed to grow and change, and the world might be a better place if more people reached out to people they’d hurt and apologized. Think about it!
I'm only 12 minutes in, but this is such a great discussion, gentleman. love this dialogue and both of your views, ability to communicate them, and also tolerate/exist with each other in your differences. it translates so well to a podcast format and is very easy to listen too. for years you guys have had stellar content and deserve the support! thanks for this one, specifically. :)
It's funny to see that whenever they phrase the video title as a question, there are always a bunch of people who just want to give their answer in the comments section without actually watching/engaging with any of the discussion points brought up in the actual video they clicked on.
I guess people just feel compelled to click on questions and give their takes, regardless of whatever it is being discussed.
Also, in media, the answer to a question is ALWAYS no.
Already dying at Casen’s snooty guy impression hahaha 😂 the new facial hair coming in adds to the persona.
Taylor Swift said this great quote in an interview that I think is super relevant… “The worst kind of person is someone who makes you feel bad, dumb, or stupid for being excited about something.” Subjectivity, nostalgia, and emotional attachment shouldn’t be reasons that people disregard your opinion or your love for something!
16:50 I disagree with their statement of saying companies are using nostalgia. Yes games like FF VII have historical importance but that importance does not mean we should be constantly remaking it. The focus should be on making new games and new stories with maybe every 5-10 years seeing what of their library isn't easily accessible anymore and making them accessible in their original form as much as possible, and not just of FF and DQ games, but of even their lesser known games like Brave Fencer Musashi
We must eliminate both nostalgia and recency bias. Games may only be judged in a more than 5 and less than 10 year window after release.
New game just released! Check back in 5 years to find out if it's any good or not! 😂
And only by reviewers older than 30 to fully eliminate any chance of reminiscent feelings.
I really relate to Casen with his story about arguing so hard about something just to argue and regretting it. I am haunted by similar experiences
I’m not sure I’ve grown out of it I just love debate sometimes to my own and other peoples detriment.
Is an ego thing, that’s what it usually boils down to. The antidote usually requires epistemically humility and being able to navigate other people’s perspective. But that’s not a guarantee to resolve all of the tendencies nor is that realistic.
If anything, there's this shiny object syndrome people never call out, where some are always going for the new thing even though it's basically the same as the previous thing. A lot of people have been trained to not appreciate art enough for it to have an impact outside of the immediate present.
I question how true this is. People don't show every facet of themselves at all times. I would venture a guess the reality is everyone is on a spectrum of "I prefer older things" and "I prefer newer things." Personally, I fall on "I prefer to seek out 20th century novels, but I'll check out the occasional book from the past decade or two." Some might fall on that other end. Some might ONLY read classics (which I'd argue is as "bad" as this shiny object syndrome) while some might ONLY read new stuff. I would say those extremists are probably outliers, though.
I can't thumbs this video up enough!
I will be sharing with many people because I'm SO TIRED of people using the dismissal tactics of "you're blinded by nostalgia"
Thanks for creating such a valuable video:-)
People who complain about nostalgia are oftenly young and haven't reached yet the age when it starts to kick in.
What an excellent discussion!
I have had that nostalgic moments where I have went back and played games or watched shows again. It has actually taken away from it for me so now I just enjoy the memory I have of that thing.
Dude I got recommended your Resonant Archive video also titled the same thing. Is this synchronicity?!?! I'm going to enjoy this one thanks Mike and Casen!
Lets go guys this is great, more and more eposodes, we will be here to watch them
The way i've always looked at nostalgia is that it's intended to be a whole package. It's about the time and the place, how old I was, what I knew and what I didn't and how it made me feel at that time specifically, regardless of the quality of the game itself.
When I recall something with nostalgia, i'm not really even saying "this game was amazing". It might be, it might not hold up, I may never have even given it a 2nd go as an adult to compare. I'm recalling the entire feeling, like a heavy sensory experience of a specific memory
I don't think i'm blinded by nostalgia because nostalgia is literally the point, it's appreciating that feeling, the whole package of how I felt, enabled by the time, age, experience, regardless of whether the game was actually good. It's supposed to be a personal thing and it's not supposed to be a "rose tinted glasses" thing, because it's a real experience you had
I mean seriously take into consideration context, environment, and many of those nostalgic feelings absolutely are valid both in the subjective experience and there objective significance. For instance ff6 + ff7, were the wombo combo that made me love the series even if i rank 9 above both of them. But they were meaningful and significant realistic emotional and objectively important content in my life that i deeply resonate and can recall as amazing life experiences for me as a child. Call it nostalgia, call it whatever to try and diminish its significance, but what’s the point of doing that? Normally people diminish the experience due to their own ego and bias and don’t realize the perspective people are coming from when they have these amazing experiences that later become enshrined in nostalgia. It is just the human experience to have these things and appreciate them for what they are.
No I don’t think so. I went on a huge JRPG kick to complete my backlog and often much older games like FF6, FF9, and Xenoblade 1 completely grabbed me and had me hooked while I couldn’t get into some of the newer stuff like Metaphor at all. I think there is something to be said for how developers had to make up for lack of storage space and technical specs with immersive gameplay and storytelling. The older greats absolutely hold up much of the time.
Idk if Metaphor is a fair comparison just because its different from other JRPGs due to the fact that is a schedule-based game which can cause a lot more downtime between gameplay, and slow the pacing structure of it sometimes like other persona games. So it really lives and dies by do you like the dating sim aspects of the game where you're raising social stats instead of battle stats so you can talk to other characters. And also it's just that games are really taking a longer time to release in certain genres, which is a bubble that I hope pops soon so we can get faster releases instead of waiting 5-6 years for an release to see if its even good or not. I think that kind of thing is diluting not just JRPGs but all kinds of stuff a bit too much.
It's just as easy to be blinded by recency bias as it is to be blinded by nostalgia. Thus rendering the terms/effects pretty useless.
I do disagree with Casen and dislike the idea of liking something out of nostalgia, though, at least on a personal level, I do. Not because it's subjective (which I feel is the only way to judge something-- I HATE objective checklist people and find their approach misguided), but because I find that particular subjective feeling superficial/shallow/fleeting rather than truly powerful and lasting. (it's mostly just comfort posing as meaning/beauty, in my opinion-- in hindsight it feels like fool's gold).
If something nostalgic DOES last and survive re-experiences (like FFVII, for me, to some extent), it's no longer nostalgia doing the heavy lifting anyways, so the effect of nostalgia ONLY serves as a nuisance that distracts/deludes you from your eventual true feelings, and wastes years doing that, in my opinion. IF it aligns with your true feelings, that's purely incidental, I feel. It's undoubtedly a present but EXTREMELY limited/deceptive factor not worth considering (at least not in subjective value judgements), in my view. The feeling of nostalgia is subjectively "overrated" =P.
I would never presume someone is nostalgic if they insisted that they weren't, though-- it's a dumb argument, as dumb/disingenuous as presuming any other baseless influence. But also, if someone's outright embracing nostalgia as a point of pride, I would not have the "Yes! Exactly! That's great!" attitude Casen does. Instead, I would probably have a similar reaction to someone embracing that they love someone primarily because of how hot they are.
great cast, a lot of fun to listen to
i often tell people "yea that's how people work" in response to people saying things like "that's just nostalgia".
Another great episode. Keep it up!
I get hounded online about nostalgia whenever I bring up Super Mario 64 or the original RE titles. Many hate them because they supposedly had bad controls or camera angles, but they instantly clicked with me back when they originally released and they’re still fun to play. Which is my argument: if said game was fun back then to me, most likely that stays the same if I play said game today and therefore not blinded by nostalgia.
I think your podcast is objectively fantastic and everyone should subscribe.
I really do try to remove nostalgia as I like to replay games as if it’s my first time. That way, if I ever recommend an old game to someone, Im more likely to tell if they would like that particular game or not. I can say that some games I enjoy are definitely purely because of nostalgia. But in all honesty, I kind of know that already when I choose to replay them.
I feel condescension works both ways in these disagreements. For instance, I've politely said many times that I don't feel FF XII's story is the most engaging or the most emotional or interesting story the series has to offer and I've completed it three times so I know it, and you would not believe how many times someone has said 'well, you obviously just don't like mature political themes or just don't appreciate subtlety, go and play FF7 instead as it's more your level' (real quote) and I'm like 'Jesus, I've been playing politically themed games for decades, why would you presume that!?
Don’t be offended by gamer bro’s opinion on video games. There is no winning or value gained in that endeavor.
Hey guys I just wanted to express my feelings and thoughts abt you guys in general more specifically lately I guess
so I appreciate you guys and enjoy watching your content a lot
your "filler" vids where you guys just yap abt random stuff and things in your own life's is really entertaining too just how much work you guys put into your content is so admirable and commendable
I also love and appreciate how articulate you guys are and seeing you guys grow is so satisfying to see
I found you guys through the NieR replicant podcast I cant say it enough its so fun to feel the passion you both have for games as a medium but to come to the main point I've been dealing with a lot of fears or like irrational fears sometimes even acknowledging how stupid your fears are won't really take the edge off unfortunately its kind of hard and embarrassing to talk about but basically I saw that Casen has been following/ liking really far right leaning stuff and all and that made me like quite uncomfortable because my brain at that moment goes irrational fearful just goes crazy thinking and fearing that pretty much nobody or most people will never really accept me not even the people I watch and feel so positive about because I was born a certain way and I just want to be normal obviously I don't want to stick out im not proud of my identity just want to fit in and I try to be optimistic but its quite difficult idk where I'm trying to go with this I just feel so conflicted and anxious and want to keep supporting you guys but idk yeah idk tldr idk
Man, Casen is really come out of the gate with that full-time job vigor
I hate when people bring up the "blinded by nostalgia" rebuttle because it's an an immediate conversation ender (and you cant often prove they are anyhow); there's no where to go once someone's made up their mind you've been compromised by nostalgia bias.
I sometimes get where people are coming from with the sentiment, truthfully I felt I was "blinded by nostalgia" when it came to certain things, but I do agree that making the assumption and trying to put people down for the things they like is generally shitty behavior and people need to do better.
If anything, there seems to be a widespread irrational appraisal of new things as being "better", even though no real comparative analysis of merits is being performed.
It's just assumed that the writing in the latest Sony hit is superior to, say, a 1998 RPG in depth, maturity, substance, and style, only because it uses voice acting and motion capture and ambient contemporary cinematic score to drape itself in the aesthetics of "quality storytelling". Of course it's better, we've come so far in technology! Right? I think anyone making accusations of nostalgic myopia should first examine whether they're blinded by what is essentially technical parlor tricks
I don’t even know if it’s necessarily because of technology improving in and of itself, but young millennials and GenZ viewing the world through a technological lens. What I mean by that, is they assume that as time goes on, people only get smarter, meaning the inventions and art that they make is only better. Old masterpieces? No, they’re too slow and boring. Kubrick and Hitchcock and Kurosawa were just born too early; they didn’t understand how to make an actual good movie. The real sign of ingeniousness is being able to create art that releases a steady stream of dopamine and looks/sounds modern.
I think that’s what they think
Mike and Cason going off the cuff in the first five minutes and are cooking. I’ll be right back. Let me go grab my popcorn. 😂
I mean I do think that by constantly revisiting something there’s the danger that you start to over idealize said thing. Because every revisitation something new has to be gained from it. And also this constant time devotion has to be justified some way. So a good thing can quickly become great and then exceptional.
It’s also what maybe some people mean when they bring up nostalgia. I agree that using these kinds of sentences is low hanging fruit and it often makes one sound unlikeable.
But at the same time I do think theres atleast some deeper truth to these head-butting engagements with these two groups on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Because constantly returning to a familiar and loved thing will probably increase one’s adoration for it ever so slowly. And because everything is already known you end up reading into things, praising the tiniest nuances and to a degree glossing over the few flaws it has. This then gets explained away as ‘charm’. And so you end up with a thing thats immune to any criticism or flaw finding.
This wouldn’t be an issue onto its own were it not for the fact that this then clashes with newer iterations and those logically not being able to live up to this perfectly considered thing which is idealized and put on a pedestal. And so is used as comparison or at worst ammunition to tear down at the new thing. Thats when it becomes toxic.
And you see this with current day remake and newer JRPG releases discussions. And it kind of stems from stuff like this. Where again the logic which was used here of “don’t speak of a thing you don’t enjoy and haven’t devoted any time too vs someone who has” could be used in its defense just the same. But rarely is accepted as an argument when people dismiss said newer thing based on their adoration of the old.
Otherwise I don’t even disagree that the old stuff is fun to revisit . But I think it’s still more interesting to pose a counter argument rather than just posting the 301st agreement comment. That and I think there’s some deeper unresolved thing lying at the center of this all if the last 3/4 videos all basically circled back to bringing up FF7 yet again 😂
Even though Casen hadn''t seen the show, everything he said about Lost in that argument was correct
I feel nostalgia for things that had an effect on me. Blinded by nostalgia means blinded by art that changed me. Is it bad thing an artpiece has an effect on me? Isn't that what art is for?
well, theres a bit more nuance than that right?
If you are enjoying the classics by yourself, nostalgia blindness is awesome. But if you are being angry and hateful to strangers for enjoying something new that you think has been ruined, less so.
I am not saying you are like that to be clear, only that there are others who ACTUALLY deserve the term nostalgia blindness, where as usually its just a very normal and healthy thing.
This reminds me a lot of my feeling about the Star Wars Prequels. I was a kid when I watched all 3, the third movie was the first Star Wars film I saw in theaters and I loved watching those movies. As I got older, in my impressionable teens I saw how the internet and generations before me hated the prequels so, I thought I couldn’t like them, so I didn’t watch them or when I did id point out all their problems. I think the Plinkett Reviews were super influential in fueling the inherent flaws in those films. However, as I got older I realized, I still really like these films, problems aside, I enjoy watching them and still enjoy watching them. That doesn’t make my subjective opinion invalid. It’s gratifying to enjoy those films and not care about what people think now.
yeah man. Every couple of years i rewatch the prequels and it definitely feels very satisfying to watch.
The Plinkett reviews are terrible though, and have almost no substance or valid reasoning to them, so I don't think they pointing out "the inherent flaws of the films" as much as pander to the lowest common denominators of malcontents and dragging the movies through the mud for reasons that had nothing to do with their quality as films one way or the other.
While I think there are plenty of valid, subjective reasons why a person might fail to resonate with the sequels(like being annoyed by Jar Jar, or not liking the shift in aesthetics and tone etc), the Plinkett reviews are probably some of the worst faith, and lowest quality reviews I've ever seen for something that so many people apparently think highly of, or were influenced by, and it saddens me to this day that they managed to capture as many minds as they did with their tripe.
I'm not about to argue that the prequels are the best movies ever made or something, but you should never be made to feel as though liking them is some sort of guilty pleasure based in nostalgia as though they're the Sci-Fi equivalent of The Room or something. They're not. They're competently made movies with plenty of depth and cinematic quality. Much more so than many films that don't recieve half the hatred the prequels did. Unfortunately, they were misaligned by a generation of man-children who couldn't accept that what George made wasn't what they had wanted out of the franchise.
Concerning objectivity vs subjectivity, I am quite suspicious of people who say things like "Well, THIS is my favorite in the series but THAT is the best one if I'm being honest." What in the hell does such a statement even mean? Something as important as morality is subjective from society to society and era to era, and you're going to claim with authority that art, something that is more personal, has some barometer where something is better than another even despite you not enjoying it as much? It makes no sense.
I think the only valid criticism of nostalgia is that it can inhibit your ability to enjoy NEW things.
Its a nuanced topic. I love the first pokemon, but cant play the newer ones, even if they are objectively better. I have a hard time playing the ff7 remake. I could play xenogears every year. But i still love finding new games. So is it nostalgia? I dont really think so; i just think some things are better than others, and being new or more streamlined or fancier doesnt make it superior
New things doesn't equal better.
I don’t think nostalgia should be criticized? Why? There’s nothing objective about nostalgia that gives it any room for criticism. It’s just a perspective born out of a human experience, a lens into one’s personal subjective experience with reality. It’s as reasonable as being a human with emotions. What is there to criticize for its existence.
Also the ability to enjoy new things, that’s such an extremely deep rooted human imperative that nostalgia could never overcome. To experience new things, to grow is to be human, every second, every millisecond is a new experience. If nostalgia can inhibit one’s ability to experience new things…we all be undone.
@@henrytep8884 Well prepare to be undone, because there are many people who dont play new games, and dont watch new movies, and dont listen to new music ... because they prefer the media from the golden years of their lives.
On a less dramatic note, sometimes instead of reading a new book I just re-read Jurassic Park for the 100th time because finding a great book can be tough.
But if I never tried new Authors or genres out.... I would miss out on some of my favorite books ever.
You are defending yourself as if I have a problem with nostalgia... I dont. I just think that its a mistake to let nostalgia prevent you from missing out on some of the wonderful new art that talented people are working hard on making daily. Not even going to say its dumb because I totally get it ... just a missed opportunity if you ask me.
Also I want to be clear... when I said criticize about nostalgia I hope you understand that I meant in the context of a persons experience with it. This channel is honestly all about taking beloved things and criticizing them in a constructive way. Dont be so defensive, all facets of human thought have nuance and are worth considering.
@@AntonioCunningham exactly. My point is that when you are searching for great art you should not close your mind to new or old things.
Its fine to then decide you prefer the other... but I would say that people from both sides would be surprised at how much they enjoyed the other
Love you guys!
So you know how in cartoons they usually say "xyz sucks" to crap on something? There's this joke in gravity falls where maybel writes "Sev'ral Timez is Overrated" to enrage a passing driver that I immediately thought of when you mentioned that
been saying for years ff7 has one of the best OST of all time- im glad remake and rebirth got the praise and awards for it (rebirth even won the award for best music and score) and yet people think that we love ff7 just for the nostalgia- no the music is timeless and 10/10!
my top 3 favorite games are: ff7, witcher 3 and persona 5. I am willing to defend great games WHILE admit newer are better than my childhood memories as well (still love mario 3, mario 64 and final fantasy 9 a ton BUT counter-strike, world of warcraft etc are so much better no matter what "Kid quez" wants to believe)
I love the subjectivity talk at the beginning of this. THANK YOU for this video. Nostalgia is a term people drop when they don't know how to discuss the elements that make up a given project in many cases. It's where discourse goes to die lol. A reductive and clumsy arguing point.
I think there is something to be said about experiencing something when you've never experienced anything like it before. The "first" factor. Your first kiss was not special, as kisses go (it was probably quite sub par in fact), but it is special to you. Most people's favorite Final Fantasy will be the first one they played, especially if it was the first JRPG you played (as FF7 was for most Americans of a certain age). I think of jaded movie reviewers, not being impressed by a well made movie that has no new ideas. Most people are not film majors, a new popular film will introduce these old (but still good!) ideas to a ton of people for the first time. These films become all time classics.
I experienced this with Takahashi's Xeno games. When I played Xenogears, I had never taken a philosophy course, never watched an anime more sophisticated than DBZ, never cracked open a popular science magazine. Takahashi and his interests were completely alien to me. I will never have that much new stuff introduced to me that quickly ever again (short of being abducted by actual aliens). Then I play Xenoblade 1 and 2 as an adult and it just didn't hit the same. It was clearly made for a younger audience and didn't have as much to offer me specifically. But those games are much bigger than any Xeno game that came before it, and it blew many young minds. To me those are just solid games, but to those young gamers that's their Xenogears. I did love XB3 though, so I'm not doomed to find all new things derivative and meh, at least.
4:20 discourse like that happens when people comparing or pitting a product against each other right? The discourse between remakes are a perfect example of it. The final fantasy vii discourse really show the bad on both sides.
Okage: Shadow King is still my favorite JRPG of all time next to Terranigma, which I always thought was exclusively a nostalgia pick. Then recently I got a buddy to play it and it ended up being one of his all time faves. I revisit the game now and then, and it really is lovely--nostalgia aside. It's such a lonely and introspective little universe. It's a shame that no one played it. Though Sony still holds some secret love for it, as they ported it to PS4 for whatever reason even though like 15 people probably bought the port.
In my experience it often comes down to just how clearly I remember the game. If I remember it very clearly then the likelihood of the replay quality matching my memories of it is usually pretty good, very rarely is a game worse than I remember it.
If anything, the inverse is FAR more common, where I remember something being less good actually ends up being a lot better on second playthrough because I'm just older and better able to analyze and catch on to elements of the narrative or gameplay design that I never noticed before and I end up appreciating it more for that reason. I think that's one of the running sentiments I've heard both Mike and Casen repeatedly bring up throughout these series too.
My theory on "objective" being used incorrectly when describing art is that a lot of people who discuss games feel really strongly one way or another and aren't comfortable with the idea that they aren't neccesarily "right" to feel that way.
I think this because not only do people believe "objective" is above "subjective", they'll also use the word objective to describe *their* opinions and subjective to describe opinions they don't agree with.
People who oppose objectivity tend to assume the person who is using it means they have the correct opinion, when it only means substantiated, it just means they have a logical reason to hold that opinion,. It can be correct, it can be wrong, but it never means to be absolute, and I think people should stop being so offended by it.
@@ProxyDougreally? Do we want to play this word game with the term objective? When did objectivity mean substantiated by logical reasoning that is an opinion? That’s contradictory. Also objectivity has nothing to do with logic or reason, it has everything to do with observable facts and evidence. No logic or reasoning is behind, just the cold hard material reality. Measurable and observable and “real”. Logic and reason are the opposite, based off human abstract thinking, even worse, based off human subjective conscious experience with sensory experience.
@@ProxyDougby definition objective means absolute. I see an apple, it objectively exist, but that’s why i don’t get into trying to tell people what is objective in a transjective or subjective endeavor such as art.
@@henrytep8884 True, doesn't change the fact logic has to be backed by what's observable, so I wouldn't call it subjective at all.
I am so blinded by nostalgia that I am unable to enjoy new things sometimes. I have memories so so beautiful that I feel actual physical pain sometimes knowing those moments are gone forever
To play devil's advocate: being unable to recognize your nostalgia biases can become problematic when you're recommending games to others. For example, I'm a huge fan of OoT. I've beaten it about 30 times. However, I would never recommend it to my 10 year old nephew. I know that a significant part of my enjoyment stems from the fact that I played it as a kid, and I know the game's poor aging would negatively impact my nephew's experience.
Not everyone is self-aware. As you get older, time becomes your most precious commodity. As such, it's natural to become much more discerning with game suggestions.
Sometimes it's hard for me to tell if it's nostalgia or it the game was genuinely good.
For example when you were talking about game intros and brought up Kingdom hearts , I had the same exact thoughts every time I go back to it. I have a similar thing with the wind waker as well. Both of which are games I grew up with, so it's hard to really tell if I'm being nostalgic.
I can say I am definitely blinded by nostalgia when it comes to mmorpg’s without a doubt. Other genres not as much.
But I played mmo’s mostly between 2002 to 2008 and there are so many people my age trying to recapture what it was like to play those games back then when it’s really impossible to truly achieve that. Plenty of reasons why, but I believe the main reason is because the concept of being able to communicate with people 100’s and 1000’s of miles away was still pretty new. And there really weren’t direct ways to communicate with people instantly unless by phone really. Definitely could not do this on a mass scale. It made communication with people not only imperative but it was still fun to do so. And you could do so with anonymity and truly play out a role. I mostly played eqoa and final fantasy 11 and you absolutely had to know how to communicate to really get anywhere in those games.
Just not something that can ever be recaptured quite honestly
Overrated is the most overused term in media. I hate it. What does it even mean? Too many people like a thing that you don’t? You like a thing more that has less exposure than the more popular thing?
I think the term underrated has far more merit, because a game may just not get the sort of coverage or marketing to put it in front of more people that might love it if only they knew about it.
Agreed, but even "underrated" probably isn't the correct term. I'd say "overlooked."
"Overrated" and "underrated" basically mean that the praise or lack thereof a piece of art has is undeserved. That people should not enjoy it the way they do, and if they don't enjoy it to the degree they "objectively" deserve, then there's something wrong with them. They have "bad taste". Which means they are inferior in the art pecking order.
That's what those terms mean.
Dude, being a big Beatles fan in 2024 is crazy. Although, of course, they still have a lot of fans worldwide, every discussion I see about them on posts dedicated to the topic always have a ton of comments with people saying they’re overrated. Like, except for the hottest new thing that just released, I’m pretty sure Beatles mentions see that word thrown around more than anything else does. Well, FF7 is up there too, which I also dearly love. I think part of it is younger generations experiencing these things without any context or history, and they aren’t using the right perspective to enjoy these things - - they’re using a more modern lens of how things are done instead and immediately assuming that because their perspective is more “modern”, they are correct… They think that the idea of technology always improving objectively can be applied to art in the same way. At work a dude in his early 20s said he didn’t watch movies made from before 1990 because “the graphics are bad”.
I called all this left brain syndrome, that people are living too much based on this shaky idea of progress, logic and objectivity instead of engaging with the subjective and abstract.
I feel this mainly pertains to games from the third and the 5th generations. The thought being that games in those generations didn't age as well. But as a near 45 year old man, gaming since the mid 80's, I can still have a blast playing those games from the NES, Sega Master System, PSOne, Saturn, and N64.
For 3D games from that generation, sure the controls have improved, and textures, and collision detection, etc. but I can always have fun playing Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy VII, and so forth.
The imagination and joy I had back then playing those games hasn't escaped me. Never will.
Some games may not hold up for me but it's not a rule that I shouldn't like other games from that time because I'm blinded by nostalgia.
I am going through Lunar on the Sega CD and I'll be damned if it still doesn't give me the feelings of joy that game did when I was young. Even with a more updated version from the PSOne being available.
The music. The story. It can be timeless. For me. And that is not just nostalgia. Hell, it can be a beautiful thing as art is subjective and nothing wrong with that
Ive completely become numb to nostalgia these days. I still look fondly on past experiences but don't use them as a barometer to judge what I like and I don't fawn over old games or try to defend them anymore. I'd rather focus on individual experiences and fuctionality.
With the exception of Elden Ring and Resident Evil I've not been drawn to replay any games from the last 4 years.
Replayability outside of competitive online games is such a lost art in the AAA space. I even prefer the replayability of 360 era games - a generation I didn't appreciate until afterwards
The pain from an old wound
That's IT! I'm joining The Inner Sanctum.
Nice.
I can't believe how some things are considered for debate nowadays.
Love herbie hancock
Hey guys, just wanted to say Merry Christmas!
HOLY SHIT BIKER MICE FROM MARS
I saw the SNES and immediately clicked, so yes.
Its not assumptions we as people speak with more than just words and what we speak without words is far louder
Nostalgia is just code word for "that shit was good" and there is nothing wrong with it
I disagree. Not saying that stuff wasn’t good that people is nostalgic for, I’m just saying not EVERYTHING you might have nostalgia for is “good”. Maybe I’m wrong as it’s all just personal opinion, I will admit I tend to look back more on the good stuff from back in the day than the bad stuff I spent just as much time with. Like I have a lot of nostalgic memories of the game shadow the hedgehog, and man is that game a dumpster fire. But I won’t say I didn’t think it was one of the best games as a child lol. Idk if I made an actual point or just rambled! I apologize if this is just an incorrect mess
Thank you for the episode! i've been debating about it with friends for the past years. It's really been frustrating for me. The words overrated and rose tinted glasses are so overused, the meaning has been lose. We can as much enjoy art from the past and present or looking forward to the future. The more broader perspectives we have, the more experience we have so we can understand ourself and other better. Sorry i've made a lot of writing mistakes. english is not my first language.
It's because as an adult I'm curious what other adults are able to appreciate. Whereas it's less useful to hear from someone who has nostalgia, because as a young person everything is more magical - even bad games. If someone enjoyed FF7 as an adult, then I'm more likely to find their opinion closer to mine because I'm an adult and also didn't play it as a child.
For me being blinded by nostalgia is liking something that hasn’t aged well but still loving it as more of a guilty pleasure. I think though that the person feeling that way has to acknowledge that it didn’t age well, or else it just doesn’t really fit. Otherwise it would just be a “classic” instead.
For example I love a lot of 90s and 00s movies that have aged badly that I wouldn’t necessarily recommend to someone who hasn’t seen them before, but I might still watch them again for the sake of enjoyment knowing it has flaws. One example of an older movie is every winter I’d watch Love Actually. Every single year it feels just a bit more cringe and the problems with it grind just a bit more. I’d be reluctant to recommend it, but I’ll probably keep watching it until something else sticks out enough to take its place. If someone asked why anyone would like Love Actually I feel like my defense would be, well it was good at the time. I feel like Labyrinth is another movie that aged badly (it was weird enough when it came out too) where you really had to be there. 😅
Edit to add, I also feel like nostalgia can be being tied to something whether it makes sense or not. Example my husband has gotten into collecting physical media (I’m all on board) but to the point of preferring dvd copies over Blu-ray for movies. To me this serves no logical purpose unless there is content that wasn’t reproduced in the Blu-ray version. To me at least this can only be a matter of nostalgia cause why would anyone watch something lower resolution? It’s all just preferences though so best to let people have what makes them happy.
I kinda disagree with the very concept that media can "age badly". I think when people say that something they liked aged badly and they no longer like it or regard it as a guilty pleasure, it often means they just went along with the mass opinion at the time and now they either formed their own opinion or just shifted their opinion to align with the current mass opinion. It's a bit disingenuous either way.
@ It doesn’t have to be disingenuous. Think about how people get nostalgic for their first car. If they get a chance to drive the same car again it can be a fun reminder of what things used to be like. People can still like parts of that experience while absolutely wanting to leave it behind for newer and better things.
Just by the nature of things moving on I’d argue that the majority of things that aren’t “classic” have basically been deemed as aging badly, but they can still be genuinely loved by someone.
What do you consider nostalgia to be?
I like the ideas, but I think it goes both ways. I truly have disgust for some things on a nostalgia lvl, as it impacted me when it came out in negative ways. I can admit that FF8 is objectively a good game, while hating it due to nostalgia.
Nostalgia plays a part in it yes, but it doesn't take old or fresh eyes to see that the state of the medium has gotten worse. Well, the tech and play is good but the business side is greedier and ruthless than it was. And it was already pretty greedy at the start!
Plus the whole "objective" and "overrated" terms can go straight to hell. Can't stand that argument. They've ruined how people approach and engage with art.
I'm not gonna stop thinking FF7 and KH1/2 are dope games that were quite formative for me.
I am guilty of saying stuff similar to this but I usually approach it in a way where I'll openly admit I don't understand it partly because I just don't have the context of the time in which that thing was released. So FF7 for example, its a game I enjoy but I don't think its this masterpiece people 10 years older than me usually think it is and I think part of that is because I wasn't there when it released, sure you could say you play it often enough that theres no way nostalgia has anything to do with your love of the game but you were still there when it released, you understand how popular it was when it released, how revolutionary it was, etc. in a way I will just never be able to. I won't knock someone for that tho, its more just an explanation for why I don't feel the same way they feel.
Now, I say all this because, as someone on the other end of this, growing up on the internet was super frustrating when it came to nostalgia. I'm 25 years old, I'm part of the first generation to largely grow up with the internet which means I was using it as a kid, with my kid brain and kid-like understanding of the world. Something that used to annoy me as a kid was that 90s kids (yes it was 90s kids, you'd get the odd 80s kid but they were never anywhere near as bad about this) would CONSTANTLY go on about how their childhood was "superior" to my childhood. It was super frustrating because I KNEW they barely touched the stuff I was growing up with at the time and just wanted to act superior but I was also too young to understand that they were just a vocal minority and that most 90s kids weren't like that. So kid me from 15 years ago just thought all 90s kids were blinded by nostalgia and tbh I held onto some resentment from that for a while. Looking back I obviously know most 90s kids weren't like that but I will say the ones that were truly were blinded by nostalgia (or their past experiences if we want to use words more accurately). Thankfully I don't see as much of this anymore (although when I do see it its somehow still a 90s kid after all these years).
Would you rather see something you've never seen or a 6th iteration of superman again. Nostalgia is good but let's not be so general that we ignore that it stagnated creativity for the sake of cashing in on fond memories.
I like modern games but old games are built differently.
I got a Neo Geo AES and it's a whole other level
I dont see blinded by nostalgia as something bad, it is a driving force and makes one feel good. The indie game scene would probably not be as strong as it is if it wasnt for nostalgia. Disclaimer, i have not had time to listen to your conversation yet, my comment is based on gut reaction upon reading the title.
I'm normally nostalgic about the games I've played in the past. However, there are some games I enjoyed at the time that I don't care for at all now, e.g., FF8. Not sure why though. I still love FF6 and FF7.
Yeah.. I’m going to send this video to every FF7 glazer that I know.
We live in an era of endless remakes, remasters, and sequels from classic franchises. Nostalgia is a good thing in itself. The problem is, it has been heavily commodified in recent years, and the market is too oversaturated by it.
That’s not what they’re referring to, and I’d say that’s marketing disguised as nostalgia. These guys are talking about actual nostalgia.
Xenogears is my favorite video game of all time…. To answer the question yes. 😆
This idea of a person's subjective opinion having no value comes from the popular idea of relativism. That everything is relative. Which ironically comes from the rise of science and the hyper focus on the objective reality that scientists and intellectual elitists tried to strive for. By trying to strip reality of its color and perspective due to seeing it as just getting in the way of seeing reality objectively, they actually made it more difficult for us to see reality clearly. Scientists are not free from bias and perspective themselves.
We see both objective reality and subjective reality. The subjective is the lens through which we see the objective world and we learn about the objective world because our subjective mind allows us to focus in on things in the objective world.
Bleach, before the last arc, was 350 episodes 😅, still a big time commitment with all that filler.
From the beginning it felt like a response to criticism of FF7 being number 1 in the last video.
I think, and I can't speak for everyone, that people use "overrated and nostalgia" specifically for FF7 because the game was so many people's first JRPG and first Final Fantasy in the late 90's and early 2000's. It's the Final Fantasy that got the most spin offs, crossovers and cross-media projects (Also why people say SE milks it/cash grabs) and it rubs the people who are not that much into it, or the Nomura games, the wrong way. There's also this strawman of 7fans that they never played other games in the series, that they will buy anything related to 7 etc.
I personally am In the middle. 6 was my first and still got a special place because it was my first but 10,12, 4 and 1 are also in my top 5 mainline FF. 7 was fun and a huge step but I think SE could give other games love as well.
🤔 I was blinded by the light. 😐 Revved up like a deuce. Another runner in the night.
Here's another question. Can you be nostalgic for games you've never played before?
There's a term for a nostalgic feeling for something you never actually experienced personally: "anemoia".
@@tarnetskyggethat happened to me when I tried ffvi for the first time.
I usually use nostalgic feeling about the games that i like to restore my interest about playing games in general...i played jrpg everyday at least 2-3 hours a day for 19 years and whenever I'm feeling burnout i always play grandia,dq games or breat of fire 3/4 to cure it...this year is great for jrpg i finished a lot of games like p3r,like a dragon iw,trails to daybreak,unicorn overlord,methapor,ys 10,saga 2 remake and all of them are great game,but after finished it i feel burntout and funny thing is dq 3 hd is next...and after played that game for weird reason I'm feeling rejuvenate to play jrpg again now i'm replaying Xenoblade 2 lol.
I am not blinded by Nostalgia. A lot of people just refuse to give any good thoughts or praise to newer things.
I prefer a lot of new JRPG versus older ones with the exception of Final Fantasy. I prefer old FF over newer ones.
A lot of other genres as well I prefer newer games in a lot of franchises. I prefer new Pokemon now versus older Pokemon.
Who are you to make that judgment though? How do you know they’re just not allowing themselves to enjoy new things instead of just legitimately not enjoying them? Are you sure it’s really a lot of people and not a vocal minority?
@@Y-two-K where did I say anything about making judgement or judging anyone?
This is what I see online all the time. People claiming they will never pick a newer game over a older game which them lying to themselves or that older games are always better when that is not the case for a lot of franchises.
Its presumptuous but also true thats why it makes you mad
Ok before watching this video, yes. I recently played ocarina of time with my kid, and I found it very boring. In my mind this game had so much choice and openness, while replaying I realized this was my child memories not letting me remember how the game actually was. I have also replayed games that really flew over my head as a child.
Edit: On the subjective and objective front. I find the objective part uninformed. Objectivity can’t really be a way of judging experiences, it is better to explain what objective facts led to subjective conclusions, in the hopes that people understand the experience. One is not better than the other, just a way to provide more accurate explanations.
I loved Biker Mice from Mars! along with Extreme Dinosaurs but no way id watch those again 😂
Casen was cooking
Interesting topic though I find your stance a bit reductive, dismissive and one-sided. There's times when it's a fair assessment especially with the hipsterish trend (particularly on yt) to overhype an old game and toss around terms like "underrated" and "hidden gem." Oftentimes just hand-waving off legitimate criticisms. When you don't even want to engage with the legitimate flaws of something then I do find it fair to assess that "blinded by nostalgia" is valid. I do feel like a lot of these just want to engage the crowd that loves holding the contrarian opinion though and ultimately, I just don't care. You can like what you like and I just don't have the energy or interest in yucking anyone else's yum lol. 😅
Telling people that the games they love is overrated, is overrated. :o I am Not a fan of FFVII but other than giving my friends crap about how much they love it ya know, just ribbing them. I dont tell others they are wrong. I dont like it but many others do and that is ok. I personally actually like the remake trilogy so far. A lot of OG fans don't and that's ok too.
Its fine to tell them its overrated. It is 🤷🏻♂️
Now to tell them its wrong to like it, thats not good. They can like whatever they want.
@@Norel_Nieves overrated doesn’t make sense as a term. It’s literally just a way to shut down people when they say they like something that you don’t. Sure, it’s “fine” to say something is overrated in the same way that it’s “fine” to say someone is stupid or distasteful for liking that. I just don’t see how it contributes to any kind of meaningful discussion.
@@Y-two-K it does make sense as a term, hence why it is a term 🤷🏻♂️
You can dislike its use, but that doesn’t mean it makes no sense.
No, and thank god i got over Nostalgia. I used to exclusively play JRPG games in my childhood and teenage years. But little by little i gave western games a chance, starting with baldurs gate 1 & 2, then dragon age origins etc etc.
Imagine being an rpg fan and never playing Witcher 3, because is not japanese or turn based ? 😂
P.S: i agree that nostalgia is not bad, but blind nostalgia is. For example Xenogears is my absolute favorite game ever, but im objective enough to know is not a top 5 all time rpg title 🤷🏻♂️
There is a difference between my favorite and what the best Is. And yes FF7 is overrated, nothing wrong with that.
Is this is about ff16 and turns, yes, give me back my turns!
Final Fantasy hasn't been turn based since 2009. I really don't get why people always target 16 specifically.
@MrDadeadone 13 had atb, turns. 15 was a chance to to try the Kingdom hearts thing, to no avail, 16 was the one where they went full Witcher action RPG, doubling down instead of learning from their mistake. RPG players want RPG combat, not devil may cry nonsense, our fingers aren't that fast too begin with 😩 😩
11:01 turns out the internet is just full of morons lol
2:42 The fandom menace screams in agony
I mostly agree with the sentiment on the video, but I do think there are cases where you can just say to someone, you are blinded by nostalgia. The case is when you have interacted with the piece of media, presented reasonable and at least moderately consensual arguments, and the person can really cede no ground at all. There are really cases where people cannot see any criticism or flaw in a piece of media, even though it's clear a case can be made for several to exist.
Yeah, I knew a guy whose favorite film was Shyamalan's The Last Airbender, it's hard to argue blinded by nostalgia is not a thing on that one.
Yes...im blinded by nostalgia T_T
Razorfist desperately needs to watch this video for his hatred of anything Japanese or Kojima love as a product of youth.
Yes. =P
I'm stsrtimg to think nostalgia is fiction