Once you get the fine tuning worked out it will be perfect. You be able to use any cassette as each gear can be individually tuned. Groupset for the people.
I was able to get this groupset here in the USA. As far the tuning of the gears, I believe you are better off using the gear shift option in the app versus the fine tuning shifting in the app. The reason being is it's easier to adjust and shift to see if it's correct. You can also use the plus minus in the gear shift to shift the derailleur kind of Handy when you're turning the Crank with one hand and shifting with your other via the app. So what you need to do is start in big ring and 11 tooth, then inch over the initial setting so it's in line. Then go to the gear shift and adjust gear 2. So that when you shift from gear 1-2 it shifts nicely. What you need to consider is if the rear pulley is shifting over far enough or not far enough. That's increasing or decreasing your value . But the tricky part is you can adjust this shift depending on where the pulley lands by increasing one value point decreasing one value point or increasing or decreasing gearr two. They both affect the shifting from one to two . Because the gear value is where the pulley sits on each individual gear. You have to consider shifting up and down with this system. To find tune each gear that sits next to each other. I hope that makes sense .For me. I'm running 11 speed I had to adjust the gear value about 15 to 20 for each gear. Go all the way through the gears with the same value up or down depending on what you need, for example, move each gear value 10 gear value points. In theory, they should all be spaced the same distance apart. But it doesn't seem to work out this way. So you may have to adjust each individual gear, another gear value point one or two or even three. Then check it up and down. There's a crazy amount of adjustment you can do on this system. It's mind-boggling. Actually you really have to be a bike nerd to enjoy it. If you want a set up and go, the system is not for you. I found the initial setting is critical because it will affect the start point of all these values. I suggest after you get it really close. Take a screenshot in the fine-tuning section of the app of all the values. Ask me how I know. I accidentally hit the restore. All values button in all my shifting values were gone. So make sure to save them and you can easily input them back in if you want to start from zero. And on a side note, which I found was really critical, in the instructions it says you need to have your pulley wheel 4 to 6 mm from the inside of your trailer hanger. My rear mech sat too close to the 11 tooth cog. And I could not adjust the initial setting of the rear pulley far enough outboard it reached its maximum. I think because my frame is old enough and has an older style derailleur hanger supersix evo disc 2017. I found there was a washer in with the USBC connector. That washer I believe is to shim out the rear mech outboard to get your 4-6 mm of adjustment, mine was like 2.5-3mm. so check your distance from the inside of the mech hanger to your 11 tooth. You may or may not need this washer/shim. I'm not sure any TH-camr has mentioned this. But I found it fixed a lot of my problems with the initial setting. So download the instructions and find out the exact value you'll have to search for it, but it's there. And make sure your initial setting is spot on before you start adjusting gears. I hope this helps. This was 2 weeks of trial and error for me. I have mine shifting. Pretty damn well now, I went from dura Ace mechanical, and it is way way faster and smoother when adjusted properly but it really is a pain in the ass. And lastly the thing that I learned somewhere but I'm not sure, and I did trial and error on this. Is that if you let the bike sit in competitive mode, the rear mech does not fully go into sleep mode. You'll wake up in the morning minus 25% battery. But if you let the bike sit in casual mode, the whole bike goes to sleep and you do not lose battery overnight. So if you like to run competitive mode, use the app to shut down your derailleurs after every ride. And you won't wake up with dead batteries. Or just switch back to casual mode when you store your bike overnight.
Great introduction , really good presentation style too, Subscribed and looking at your other videos , looking forward to the updates on the EDS TX use over the increasing KMs ,cheers
@@DaveNoakes I’ve done my first couple of rides with the groupset, and I’ve been around 250km’s. Must say, I’m pretty impressed so fare. Setup was a hassle, but that’s over now and I’m just enjoying the smooth shifting. 👍🏼
Excellent. Great that these alternatives to mainstream brands are around….also,worth noting that we often see instances in the top level of pro racing-electronic gear issues!!
I think it’s great. Ok so I’m not hating for no reason here…I know people that were sponsored by sram and had loads of issues with their stuff…they just won’t ever say it due to sponsorship. And when this sponsorship ended they jumped straight to shimano.
Ok I have one. Files refers to the gears and the assigned values for each file refers to what specific area you want your derailleur to sit. You just need to estimate. Shift 1 gear up or down for the adjustments to take effect.
Great review. What will be really interesting to know is the braking performance of the rim brake version. I have a ten year old Neil Pryde Bura SL (amongst other bikes that are disc) which continues to be my favourite bike. It currently runs Dura Ace 9000 with Rotor Chainset and is faultless. I just couldn't part with it and this would future proof it for me, if the weight and performance is good...even if I'm stuck with 28mm tyres!!!
im guessing the ratio is the same so it depends more on your calipers .. just use the DA calipers as there is 0 reason for the levers to be worse they just .. lever.
Thanks mate. This was only the first ride…I still need to put it properly through its paces. But it’s been a pleasure to ride, so much so I’m actually thinking of selling my road bike with etap on and using this bike as my main road bike.
Cheers Dave - look forward to hearing your thoughts after a few more miles - will be later in the summer before I buy a new groupset, so hopefully enough time for some real ideas on how it performs, will watch this space!
First impressions have been really good. It’s not perfect (yet) but I have no issues riding it. To be honest I’m now looking at selling my etap road bike and using this as my main road bike.
I had it installed a week ago, but the tech had trouble tuning it using the manual. 🙂I've been using the app to fine-tune it after every ride, and it seems to be getting better. The only downside is that the front derailleur fine-tuning is locked; have to get the WheelTop to unlock it.
Just got mine delivered (rim version) - have physically installed it onto my bike but haven't set it up yet (still waiting for cable outers, bar tape etc to be delivered - did not expect it to arrive so quickly from China). Can't speak for how easy it is to set-up on the software/tuning side but much, much easier to install than Di2 given the "pure" wireless setup.
@DaveNoakes after a few rides, its basically the same as my ultegra 6800s. Pretty sure they have the same pull ratio as shimano levers. Although I have had to switch my front and back brakes as I couldn't be bothered to switch out the cables given how tight the hoods are.
Bought 2 LTwoo groups & work great,was lookin at Wheeltop but the non replaceable battery is a NO GO ,Ill wait for LTwoo to come out with a rim version for my other bikes
I have a question, I really like the look of this groupset. I run a wide range 2x, I have a derailluer extension and larger jockey wheels which I should be able to swap out, but can you remove the cage for the rear derailluer? Would it for example, fit any shimano cages? Like in cheaper shimano stuff the bit that stops the cage twisting back is riveted in, but screws in for higher level groupsets.
So you can run a derailleur extender to use wider range cassettes. although you can’t swap out the cage, I have a large pulley wheel one on my gravel bike…it fits the 11 speed GRX but won’t fit the 12 speed GRX. The shimano cages have different fixtures to each other it’s not a standard size. I’ve not tried to fit one to Wheeltop but as shimano are not cross compatible I’d assume they wouldn’t work.
I know there’s a few videos online of people talking about LTWOO and the auto trim and patents. But I’ve not actually been able to find anything concrete about that patent online. The only thing that I found was something saying the Shimano Auto Trim patent allegedly finished at the end of 2023. So maybe this is why LWTOO turned it off 🤷🏻♂️ As far as I’m aware this is the only alleged one. The previous version of the OX had a removable battery, though it’s now not. So I assume that was down to patents and sram. That said…I find it crazy as there’s so many products with removable batteries. Take cameras for example…canon are not moaning or trying to sue Sony for removable batteries. I think that’s more to do with wanting to protect their market. Which is understandable but from a consumer/real world perspective it’s just stupid.
I’m not sure…I assume so. I’ve emailed and asked. I know the mtb version has one. So I rode this over a lot of gravel…so much that it ruined my tyre…and the rear mech seems very solid…by this very non testy test I’m guessing it does 😂
Hi! I am not sure if I should buy because I do not understand “fine Tunes” … how I know de values? I am so lost… can someone help ? I am considering this option because I have rim brake and looks like shimano 105 di2 just are available to disc
Can this be set up to run a 1 x system do you know? Also, does it work with both Shimano and SRAM other components (cassettes/chainsets)? Thanks, nice review!
Yes it can be used as a 1x, you can turn off the left shifter. I’m using it with a cheapish 12 speed chain and a shimano 12 speed cassette. It would work with sram also…that said as you can fine tune the gear ranges you could run any spacing cassette on the rear with a bit of fine tuning.
@@DaveNoakes please do! I know they are releasing a new gravel Groupo soon but this would be good to know for existing EDS TX users. Never tried a rear mech extender before I'm gonna have to look them up
I’m just waiting for the new mtb version…I’m guessing the gravel is a mix of both. I really rate the mtb so have a good feeling about the gravel one. Wolftooth do a mech extender…but you can get cheaper alternatives which is what I went for. It’s essentially just a bit of aluminium that attaches to your mech hanger giving you more length so you can run a larger cassette. I got one to run a 46 on my GRX but never needed it.
Too pricey. £670 for 105 Di2, which includes shifters, FD, RD, brake calipers, crankset, cassette, chain, and battery. EDS TX £487 only includes shifters, FD, RD, brake calipers, and integrated batteries (no crankset, chain, or cassette). Mad....
670£ rrp or discounted? Let’s actually compare it to the rrp of shimano. 105 di2 is around £1500 it’s not really fair to compare to a discounted shimano groupset….and shimano support the channel. 105 isn’t carbon, it’s heavier, not true wireless, also doesn’t have removable batteries. Unless you count having a battery in the seatpost that’s kinda but not really removable. If your think Wheeltop is too pricey compared to mainstream brands you are the mad one 😂
Once you get the fine tuning worked out it will be perfect. You be able to use any cassette as each gear can be individually tuned. Groupset for the people.
Exactly
I was able to get this groupset here in the USA. As far the tuning of the gears, I believe you are better off using the gear shift option in the app versus the fine tuning shifting in the app. The reason being is it's easier to adjust and shift to see if it's correct. You can also use the plus minus in the gear shift to shift the derailleur kind of Handy when you're turning the Crank with one hand and shifting with your other via the app. So what you need to do is start in big ring and 11 tooth, then inch over the initial setting so it's in line. Then go to the gear shift and adjust gear 2. So that when you shift from gear 1-2 it shifts nicely. What you need to consider is if the rear pulley is shifting over far enough or not far enough. That's increasing or decreasing your value . But the tricky part is you can adjust this shift depending on where the pulley lands by increasing one value point decreasing one value point or increasing or decreasing gearr two. They both affect the shifting from one to two . Because the gear value is where the pulley sits on each individual gear. You have to consider shifting up and down with this system. To find tune each gear that sits next to each other. I hope that makes sense .For me. I'm running 11 speed I had to adjust the gear value about 15 to 20 for each gear. Go all the way through the gears with the same value up or down depending on what you need, for example, move each gear value 10 gear value points. In theory, they should all be spaced the same distance apart. But it doesn't seem to work out this way. So you may have to adjust each individual gear, another gear value point one or two or even three. Then check it up and down. There's a crazy amount of adjustment you can do on this system. It's mind-boggling. Actually you really have to be a bike nerd to enjoy it. If you want a set up and go, the system is not for you. I found the initial setting is critical because it will affect the start point of all these values. I suggest after you get it really close. Take a screenshot in the fine-tuning section of the app of all the values. Ask me how I know. I accidentally hit the restore. All values button in all my shifting values were gone. So make sure to save them and you can easily input them back in if you want to start from zero. And on a side note, which I found was really critical, in the instructions it says you need to have your pulley wheel 4 to 6 mm from the inside of your trailer hanger. My rear mech sat too close to the 11 tooth cog. And I could not adjust the initial setting of the rear pulley far enough outboard it reached its maximum. I think because my frame is old enough and has an older style derailleur hanger supersix evo disc 2017. I found there was a washer in with the USBC connector. That washer I believe is to shim out the rear mech outboard to get your 4-6 mm of adjustment, mine was like 2.5-3mm. so check your distance from the inside of the mech hanger to your 11 tooth. You may or may not need this washer/shim. I'm not sure any TH-camr has mentioned this. But I found it fixed a lot of my problems with the initial setting. So download the instructions and find out the exact value you'll have to search for it, but it's there. And make sure your initial setting is spot on before you start adjusting gears. I hope this helps. This was 2 weeks of trial and error for me. I have mine shifting. Pretty damn well now, I went from dura Ace mechanical, and it is way way faster and smoother when adjusted properly but it really is a pain in the ass. And lastly the thing that I learned somewhere but I'm not sure, and I did trial and error on this. Is that if you let the bike sit in competitive mode, the rear mech does not fully go into sleep mode. You'll wake up in the morning minus 25% battery. But if you let the bike sit in casual mode, the whole bike goes to sleep and you do not lose battery overnight. So if you like to run competitive mode, use the app to shut down your derailleurs after every ride. And you won't wake up with dead batteries. Or just switch back to casual mode when you store your bike overnight.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that. Much appreciated 🙏🏽
Top class commentary there tx
Thanks for sharing.
Great introduction , really good presentation style too, Subscribed and looking at your other videos , looking forward to the updates on the EDS TX use over the increasing KMs ,cheers
Ordered a group today, based on your review and other videos.
It will be my first electronic group set, so I’m looking forward to try it out.
Awesome! Interested to hear what you think.
@@DaveNoakes
I’ve done my first couple of rides with the groupset, and I’ve been around 250km’s. Must say, I’m pretty impressed so fare. Setup was a hassle, but that’s over now and I’m just enjoying the smooth shifting. 👍🏼
Excellent. Great that these alternatives to mainstream brands are around….also,worth noting that we often see instances in the top level of pro racing-electronic gear issues!!
I think it’s great. Ok so I’m not hating for no reason here…I know people that were sponsored by sram and had loads of issues with their stuff…they just won’t ever say it due to sponsorship. And when this sponsorship ended they jumped straight to shimano.
Ok I have one. Files refers to the gears and the assigned values for each file refers to what specific area you want your derailleur to sit. You just need to estimate. Shift 1 gear up or down for the adjustments to take effect.
Thank you 🙏🏽
Great review. What will be really interesting to know is the braking performance of the rim brake version. I have a ten year old Neil Pryde Bura SL (amongst other bikes that are disc) which continues to be my favourite bike. It currently runs Dura Ace 9000 with Rotor Chainset and is faultless. I just couldn't part with it and this would future proof it for me, if the weight and performance is good...even if I'm stuck with 28mm tyres!!!
I’d be interested to find this out too
im guessing the ratio is the same so it depends more on your calipers .. just use the DA calipers as there is 0 reason for the levers to be worse they just .. lever.
Really interested in this groupset, I’ve seen lots of unboxing videos but this is the first one with someone actually using it! Great vid, thanks 👍👍
Thanks mate. This was only the first ride…I still need to put it properly through its paces. But it’s been a pleasure to ride, so much so I’m actually thinking of selling my road bike with etap on and using this bike as my main road bike.
Cheers Dave - look forward to hearing your thoughts after a few more miles - will be later in the summer before I buy a new groupset, so hopefully enough time for some real ideas on how it performs, will watch this space!
I’ll keep you posted. Hopefully the sun comes back out and I get some dry miles in. That said I also need to test this in the rain!
I'll get it this week, thanks God you like it. I am confident now I haven't wasted my money. Cheers!
First impressions have been really good. It’s not perfect (yet) but I have no issues riding it. To be honest I’m now looking at selling my etap road bike and using this as my main road bike.
Great news. Thanks for the update.
👍🏼👍🏼
@@DaveNoakes BTW, I'll also be really curious to see how that crankset holds up
So far so good
I had it installed a week ago, but the tech had trouble tuning it using the manual. 🙂I've been using the app to fine-tune it after every ride, and it seems to be getting better. The only downside is that the front derailleur fine-tuning is locked; have to get the WheelTop to unlock it.
Ahhh I think mine may be locked too…I adjust the front mech and it’s like it defaults back to the original setting as soon as I fine tune it.
Just got mine delivered (rim version) - have physically installed it onto my bike but haven't set it up yet (still waiting for cable outers, bar tape etc to be delivered - did not expect it to arrive so quickly from China).
Can't speak for how easy it is to set-up on the software/tuning side but much, much easier to install than Di2 given the "pure" wireless setup.
Excited to hear what you think. Interested about the rim brakes and how they perform.
@DaveNoakes after a few rides, its basically the same as my ultegra 6800s. Pretty sure they have the same pull ratio as shimano levers.
Although I have had to switch my front and back brakes as I couldn't be bothered to switch out the cables given how tight the hoods are.
Great video, nice bike 👍 that setup looks pretty good 😎
Thank you.
Bought 2 LTwoo groups & work great,was lookin at Wheeltop but the non replaceable battery is a NO GO ,Ill wait for LTwoo to come out with a rim version for my other bikes
How do you find them? I personally don’t mind the non removable battery. Did you get the electric groupset from ltwoo?
@@DaveNoakesHe probably bought them on aliexpress
Probably, I was wondering if he has the cable or electric version of the Ltwoo groupset.
I have a question, I really like the look of this groupset. I run a wide range 2x, I have a derailluer extension and larger jockey wheels which I should be able to swap out, but can you remove the cage for the rear derailluer? Would it for example, fit any shimano cages? Like in cheaper shimano stuff the bit that stops the cage twisting back is riveted in, but screws in for higher level groupsets.
So you can run a derailleur extender to use wider range cassettes. although you can’t swap out the cage, I have a large pulley wheel one on my gravel bike…it fits the 11 speed GRX but won’t fit the 12 speed GRX. The shimano cages have different fixtures to each other it’s not a standard size.
I’ve not tried to fit one to Wheeltop but as shimano are not cross compatible I’d assume they wouldn’t work.
LTWOO and Sensah also created electronic groupsets...
They sure did, I’d like to try those too
What about patents they infringe? Auto trim is one of them. L-twoo had it on their electronic groupset but had to remove it in a firmware update
I know there’s a few videos online of people talking about LTWOO and the auto trim and patents. But I’ve not actually been able to find anything concrete about that patent online. The only thing that I found was something saying the Shimano Auto Trim patent allegedly finished at the end of 2023. So maybe this is why LWTOO turned it off 🤷🏻♂️
As far as I’m aware this is the only alleged one. The previous version of the OX had a removable battery, though it’s now not. So I assume that was down to patents and sram. That said…I find it crazy as there’s so many products with removable batteries. Take cameras for example…canon are not moaning or trying to sue Sony for removable batteries. I think that’s more to do with wanting to protect their market. Which is understandable but from a consumer/real world perspective it’s just stupid.
Got mine coming this week, awesome timing for your videos! Also, what shoes are you rocking? They look awesome
That’s awesome. Let me know what you think. They are the Giro Imperial shoes
Thanks Dave..does the rear derailleur have a clutch ?
I’m not sure…I assume so. I’ve emailed and asked. I know the mtb version has one. So I rode this over a lot of gravel…so much that it ruined my tyre…and the rear mech seems very solid…by this very non testy test I’m guessing it does 😂
Hi! I am not sure if I should buy because I do not understand “fine Tunes” … how I know de values?
I am so lost… can someone help ?
I am considering this option because I have rim brake and looks like shimano 105 di2 just are available to disc
Can this be set up to run a 1 x system do you know? Also, does it work with both Shimano and SRAM other components (cassettes/chainsets)? Thanks, nice review!
Yes it can be used as a 1x, you can turn off the left shifter. I’m using it with a cheapish 12 speed chain and a shimano 12 speed cassette. It would work with sram also…that said as you can fine tune the gear ranges you could run any spacing cassette on the rear with a bit of fine tuning.
@@DaveNoakes Ah that's cool to know! Thanks for the quick reply mate :)
You’re welcome
Great review Dave. Also, how sick is that bike?
Thanks Ash. Love this build!
Nice. Does this connect to wahoo and show which gear you are in?
Yes, but for some reason all gears are in reverse
I believe so
What model giro lid is that?
Giro Aires
Thanks for testing the groupset out. Did you purchase the groupset youself and if so, did you get charged import tax? Cheers
Hiya, the groupset was gifted to me, although the whole tax charge is a bit random…sometimes you are charged sometimes not
@@DaveNoakes Thanks for taking the time to reply. Cheers
You’re welcome
Hi Dave! I might of missed this but can it work with Shimano cassettes and front mech??
Have you tried a bigger cassette with it? Something like a 44t gravel cassette?
I know their stated max is like 36t
I haven’t…but probably should right!? You could always use a rear mech extender too.
@@DaveNoakes please do! I know they are releasing a new gravel Groupo soon but this would be good to know for existing EDS TX users.
Never tried a rear mech extender before I'm gonna have to look them up
I’m just waiting for the new mtb version…I’m guessing the gravel is a mix of both. I really rate the mtb so have a good feeling about the gravel one.
Wolftooth do a mech extender…but you can get cheaper alternatives which is what I went for. It’s essentially just a bit of aluminium that attaches to your mech hanger giving you more length so you can run a larger cassette. I got one to run a 46 on my GRX but never needed it.
@@DaveNoakes do you know when they are releasing the new MTB one? I think it's this week
does the mullet make you faster?
Always!
Just cooler 😂
However, it should be max. 500 EUR!
Don’t agree…what do you base this price on?
Too pricey.
£670 for 105 Di2, which includes shifters, FD, RD, brake calipers, crankset, cassette, chain, and battery.
EDS TX £487 only includes shifters, FD, RD, brake calipers, and integrated batteries (no crankset, chain, or cassette).
Mad....
670£ rrp or discounted? Let’s actually compare it to the rrp of shimano. 105 di2 is around £1500 it’s not really fair to compare to a discounted shimano groupset….and shimano support the channel.
105 isn’t carbon, it’s heavier, not true wireless, also doesn’t have removable batteries. Unless you count having a battery in the seatpost that’s kinda but not really removable.
If your think Wheeltop is too pricey compared to mainstream brands you are the mad one 😂