No money has changed hands. Roughly 1.2k…. miles Trust me chaps, I need neither the money nor the equipment. I do it because I like doing it….. But you make me question why I bother. Thanks 👍
Thanks for this review. Ran across this groupset while looking for something to put on my semi-dedicated trainer bike. Was surprised to see this also comes in a rim-brake version!
Nice to see the Garmin 810 get a mention. Im still using mine 4 - 5 times a week and its still going strong. Interesting watch, tho im still on 105 mechanical rim brakes and like it simple 😊
Great in-depth analysis. I have had mine (rim brakes) for a couple of weeks and it's been working really well, but it is my first electronic groupset as I have been using 105 mechanical so far. I could not see the screw on the FD and I struggled to line it up with the chainring, but eventually I managed to do it. Somehow I worked through the set up in the app, even if you have to interpret the translation. I am keeping it in casual mode and I really like it, there is a little FD rub when I cross chain on the big ring, but minimal. I will check the wear in a few months, but I would not go through bad weather if I can avoid it. Luckily I don't have to bleed the brakes, if anything my rim braking seems better with the same callipers and the new levers, maybe they have a different pull ratio.
*The Support Bolt:* I talked a lot more about this in the video, but cut it out in the edit, as I thought I was going on, and nobody would care...... That was a mistake!! The Support Bolt was originally used on mechanical groupsets as a brace between the derailleur and frame. It was needed due to the pressure from the spring on the frame and strap. However, it also offers adjustment to the alignment between the derailleur and chainrings. Nowadays, with electric shifting, those forces aren’t present, so the screw isn’t technically needed for support, but can still offer adjustment. TBH, as it's not 'Technically' needed, Wheeltop would've been better off leaving it out. *FD Wear:* You can't stop the wear when shifting, but you can dial it out when riding. There are 6 positions for the FD, understanding these can help with chain rub, and it will help to reduce chain wear to the FD. This Wheeltop document details those positions: docs.google.com/document/d/1XmM7enMUmZ_mClXzVrNIUDlt9Ci0PJWpmsJoQ9jhEWo/edit?usp=sharing
My old di2 11 speed used to trim perfectly, I think it even pivoted as well as dropped down if you went to 50/28 for example. I like to be able to use the whole cassette in the big ring even tho on any set up it will likely be more noisy. What calipers are you using? I have either 105 or ultrgra (the final ones they made)
Thanks for the in-depth, honest real-world review. OZ cycles has also done a deep dive and mentions that, in theory, the batteries are DIY replaceable, as long as you know how reseal them (weatherproofing).
Thanks, glad you liked it. I'm tempted to contact Wheeltop, and ask them to supply me one to strip down and replace the battery..... So I can make a video showing how it's done. Suspect they wouldn't be up for it though, as it'd result in users everywhere doing the same!!
I'll leave my impressions here as a somewhat early user (May) that does ~15h/week: - Setup was painful to say the least... I have had to tinker with the RD numbers on a training ride because chain was quite noisy and skipping. Ever since then I've had no issues. - Shifting is good enough. I have a GRX Di2 11sp and it's definitely not better but it gets the job done for a road groupset. It just works fine if you set it up properly. - Wear is noticecable on my FD, just like shown in this video. Luckily I use hotwax as lube so it's not a 100% metal to metal contact. Bolt heads are all rusty as well. - Breaking feels like my old ultegra. I was lucky enough to be able to buy the groupset without calipers, so I kept my ultegra calipers. No issues here. - Battery life is doing fine for the most part. I had to swap to Casual mode because my battery was drained after a week when using comp mode and it was pretty annoying. I went through two sets of shifter batteries for some reason... Overall is a decent groupset that does what it's meant to do on a budget. If you like the shifter shape (very important for me), you are on a budget and don't mind slower shifting, then I'd go for it since electronic shifting is much much better (at least for me). I'm still waiting for them to list replacements.... So once they do, I feel like it'll get more attention. I am kind of worried about the shifter battery cap... The o-rings there are stupidly thin and one of them broke... so I am worried now about waterproffness... Hope it helps.
@@luismanrique5373maybe just maybe it could be the FD itself as there seems to be a lot of people which somehow don’t know how to set up a FD. Strange on all my other bikes I somehow know how to do it. 🤷♂️
Hi Jon, Have been waiting for this review for some time, thank you, i believe that WheelTop will take your points onboard and future iterations concerning hardware and software updates and improvements will be considered.. Excellent Video. Thank you
Rear derauleur adjustment for 12 speed 11-36 cassette. I made it simple, and it works: There was an interesting difference between adjustment nubers. So, as there is the same pull ratio in cable groups, i decided to make the same for electronic one, except first and last gear. Adjustmen start from 0 for small sprocket and ends with 2000 for big sprocket. I left 260 points for 2nd sprocket as it was made by Wheeltop. Then i adjust all other gears with 170 points between gears. Than used to make final adjustment between 7 and 8 gear (160 points), and 10and11 gear (190 points), probably because i have an Aliexpress cassette. In the end, i have 210 point diference between 11 and 12 sprocket. As said before, it works.
I think that you'll find is that this works as good, if not better, than equivalent main brand components. We're conditioned to think things should cost way more, and that's a sign of qualify. But the reality is, name brands have been ripping us off for decades.
A small nuance from my experience(2 weeks ;) ) with Wheeltop EDS-TX - shifting is as good as it's indexed. My shifting works great, but I spend around an hour in total fine-tuning every gear individually via app - it's not hard at all, just requires some proper attention. I have another bike(Canyon Endurace CF SLX) with an Ultegra Di2 groupset, and besides ergonomics, I can't really tell which shifting is "better". Ultegra engages rapid shift(when I hold an up/down rear gear button) quicker. But besides that, I can't say Whelltop works any differently.
I’ve just spent a week in the Alps riding with the groupset with no issues, other than the one John mentioned about chain rubbing the front derailleur when on the big ring and trying to go onto the 4 biggest rear cassette cogs. I do have oval chainrings on the front too so though this could be a contributing factor. Other cyclist in my group running Ultegra Di2 both also had issues with theirs. Every gear change was bang on and the Garmin feature that tells you’ve run out of gears is bittersweet when you’re on a stinking climb!
Great job! I’ve had my EDS TX for months now and I love it…..for the most part. It took forever to set up, but once it was, I forgot it was there. I ended up taking the front derailleur off and making it a 1x system on my steel framed bike and since then I’ve had zero issues. The biggest crux of the group set is the front derailleur, in my opinion.
I've got the rim brake version and it works perfectly. I had tiu fine ture a couple of gears, that's all. After 500 miles I've started to get the low battery warning on my Garmin, too. On it's app it is still at 60%. Apparently that is a reported Gamin issue when reading the sensors via bluetooth.
Cheers Sam, will grab a coffee on the next ride. I haven't really noticed that. Now I think about it, it may be slightly slower than others...... but it's not so slow that it causes a problem. I wouldn't worry about it.
Thanks for your review My biggest gripe is with the APP in trying to understand the instructions I'm a visual kind of guy yep that's correct give me instructions in video format and hey presto alls good Fingers crossed that Wheeltop deliver video instructions soon Meanwhile I will continue trying to dial in the gears otherwise very happy Keep up the good reviews
My two pennyworth....I also resorted to pliers for the hood rubbers but I wrapped them in a towel first. I managed a full bleed on the back brake using 2 syringes but I couldn't get the front brake cover back far enough to access the bleed port - so I turned the bike upside down and bled via the caliper! Amazingly it worked fine. Regarding initial setup via the App, my only problem was the one Tracevelo had with his front derrailleur - but mine was with the rear. This happens if you enter initial calibration in anything other than biggy small. I can highly recommend the video by TilmanvonderRadelbande for set up and fine tuning. And finally, one feature I'm only just realising is the difference between a long and short press on the left shifter button. A long press will force the FD to its maximum movement to facilitate the chain moving from one chainring to the the other. A short press will initially move the chain to the max and then trim it back to the best position according to the chosen cog on the cassette. I think!
Also believe that with the firmware update, if you have it in race mode and battery goes below a certain level, it automatically switches to casual mode. I have not tested it yet but worth a note.
I think of the "support" screw as needed for bracing the front derailleur against the seat tube to address the high leverage of the servo. There have been "braze on" frame attachments broken when unsupported (Cannondale). Great review!
Agreed, M. Talley, you're spot on. It can be used for both what you say, and what I say....... Although technically, it's meant for 'Support', hence it's name. However, we don't see the pressures in electric, like we do in mechanical. And as I say, you can't get to it once it's in place anyway, so it serves no purpose for either use. To be honest, they've been better off just not adding it to the design.
@@MrJwmurph Both as far as Shimano goes. Newer model Shimano road and gravel address having higher leverage with a small sticker-on metal plate (if needed) for the set screw to contact. Newer braze-on bands have a section incorporated for the same reason. The plate makes sense for carbon frames as well for protecting paint finish on steel and aluminum. On this Wheeltop mechanism it seems they didn't think the design through.
I have 2 sets of these on both of my rim and disc brake road bikes. I do admit that the FD setup is painful, I broke a my FD during my first installation. But after a couple of Bilibili videos details of how to set up the FD, the entire group works very well. Also, wheeltop replaced my broken FD's cage without asking anything, so warranty in China is at least good. The May frimware update this year allows us to connect this groupset to bike computers, so gearing can be seen directly during rides. Also, the chinese manual has been completly rewriten, so the setup process makes a lot more sence. There are problems at the moment wheeltop still needs to address. Such as that stiff shifterhood, the fitment of rd charging port's seal and level reach adjustments for both types of shifters. But as their road drivetrain first attempt , it is good enough for budget minded cyclists.
My experience are very similar to yours on the groupset although I have the rim brake version. I haven't seen the rusting or so much wear on my FD cage but I tend to ride in dry weather, otherwise I use the turbo and that's where my Wheeltop will sit once our terrible summer has turned into a wet winter! For my purposes the Wheeltop is a workhorse, I've Di2 on my fancier bikes but the Wheeltop perfectly fits my requirements for an upgrade to a bike (from mechanical) which I didn't want or need to spend a lot on. I found the change quality to be chain dependent, it didn't like KMC chains but worked well with Shimano DA lubed with Silca Synergetic. The carbon shifter levers have a very fragile finishing coat, they scratch easily so don't leave the bike resting against a wall! The supplied brake cables seem to have a low friction coat so you really need to tighten up the pinch clamps on the calipers to stop cable slip.
Sounds like we have a similar setup then. Good tip on the shifters. To be honest, I've always found Shimano chains shift best with Shimano groupsets. I feel the HyperGlide technology prefers the directional Shimano setup.
Curious, can you use the existing calipers (105 for example) instead of the wheel top? I’ve just started watching your channel and truly enjoy your delivery. Well done!
I'd be more than happy to do a battery replacement video, if Wheeltop would be willing to send me a derailleur and a replacement battery. Wouldn't want to scrap a perfectly good derailleur though.
@@ribblevalleycyclist fo shizzle my wizzle, who wanna buy groupo with expiry date. Even EV car battery can be replaced. I dunno how the heck SRAM can get the "removable battery electronic groupo" patented. clown world.
I'm interested in their EDS. For the e-bike mountain bike version, the derailleur is different, but they will need replacing every two years if the battery dies out of warranty, as the battery can't be replaced! They used the micro-fine tune in their new MTB version. A friend just got it, and it's incredible, to be honest! Just that non-removable battery that's stopping me going ahead with the order oh and the reply I got from them I would have to pay the post office customs charge at this end!
i think the difference in shifting quality for your wheeltop setup is mostly due to the 105 cassette not having the latest hyperglide standard that ultegra cassettes use
Just got my nahds on this groupset - what is the biggest cassette you could fit in the back? Wheeltop says 36, but the long cage seems huge! Thanks for the video
Another great video, wonder if Shimano are looking at this company, emailing me, had some good convos then suddenly said sorry we don’t have any left then stopped communicating
Hey Jon. How did you resolve the support bolt issue? A longer bolt with some threadlock, perhaps? Also, if you turned it around, is the head not accessible from the other side? As for FD wear, would it be possible to stick on a shimano (or DIY) plastic protector - or even replace the lower cage with a shimano one?
*The Support Bolt:* I talked a lot more about this in the video, but cut it out in the edit, as I thought I was going on, and nobody would care...... That was a mistake!! The Support Bolt was originally used on mechanical groupsets as a brace between the derailleur and frame. It was needed due to the pressure from the spring on the frame and strap. However, it also offers adjustment to the alignment between the derailleur and chainrings. Nowadays, with electric shifting, those forces aren’t present, so the screw isn’t technically needed for support, but can still offer adjustment. TBH, as it's not 'Technically' needed, Wheeltop would've been better off leaving it out. *FD Wear*: Shimano don't use one on their electric FD's (For the above reason I suspect). I checked my Shimano Di2 FD, and it didn't look like the Wheeltop one.
I m running rim brake version and it runs very well. But my head unit which is Bryton S500 didn't show the gear position correctly. Both front and rear, it's like inverted effect..
Do you have rattle in the shift levers?, the cable version , the cable pulls back on the inside of the lever, and no rattle but the hydraulic ones the levers move forward and back just a bit, causing a rattle,,,,,there kinda free floating if ya will so on a bumpy road the levers rattle on the contact point of the hydraulic plunger under the lever. Just wondering if yours rattle “””””! Other than this I have no issues.
The biggest issue is the front derailleur rubbing in lowest gear and nigh on impossible to fix. As per trace velo has experienced. The rear one for me has worked well with lots of adjustments. The rear battery cover is rubbish as you mention. Update: after several useless conversations with wheel top I got the FD sorted by using the debug in the app. Using the Front derailleur section, Alter gear 5 position to 1300 (it may be more or less for you as default is 1080) and all works well. Unless you are told this as I was (by a Facebook group) you wouldn’t have a clue how to do this, it took literally 1minute. After spending countless hours.
The front derailleur does seem to have adjustments on all 6 points, so I’d be interested to have a play around with that. Trouble is, i daren’t, as it’ll end up even worse 😬
Yep, ended up worse at one point. I’ve given up to be honest as I’ve spent so much time on it. I Just limit the of use my 30 to avoid the chain rub noise. 😢
@@iamthedalilama I know someone in Denmark on facebook on the eds group page had a issue with his right shifter and was not changing up the clogs(fixed now). I asked about this chain rub with the FD and he's managed to set it fine and he is using 11-32 cassette . on 52 ring and on 32 clog showed me a picture and I can tell you it is 1-2 mm clearance from the inside cage. So it can be done.
I have recently installed this group set , was getting some chain noise going down the block so swapped my cassette and chain , opened up the app and began to tune the gears ,1st checking it was on 11 speed pressed confirm, moved on to select gears went up to 7 and then pressed to go up to 8 suddenly shot down the block to 2 ,tried it several times , this got me scratching my head, so look at the values for each gear and 11 was at 0 .. how? Soon as I reset to 1795 it went all through the gears again 🤷🏼♂️, now I can fine tune each gear
Or the usual story they spend the money on the build quality and save on the battery? I did read its got a 1000 charge cycle online gives it a 2 year life span (ish) but that's only on a review online, however it is a chunky unit so might have a big lipo in there which again can swell up through time if left uncharged time will tell that's it but you can get sram GX upgrade set for same price now new so yeah hard decision to make! And I'm in this situation at the moment waiting for TRP A12 EASI or go ahead with the sram? I'll buy the sram GX amd the TRP will come out a week later haha
16:00 you mean the DI2 is does not shift better but compared to wheeltop is different because they are not using the same cassette and chain.... make change out the chain and cassette and test it....
Shimano 105 cassette and chain shifts worse than Dura ace counterpart? Is this really true? Have you tried the Shimano Ultegra Di2 with 105 cassette and chain? Because I think short cage is the key here and not being 105 vs Dura ace. Short cage derailleurs usually shift better than long cage due to less chain wrap and usually smaller distance between cogs. Im telling this because I had a bike with 105 short cage and 105 11-28 cassette. Changed to long cage derailleur and 11-34 cassette and now the shifting isn't as good as it used to be so I suspect it has to do more with that than dura ace componentry.
Local prices seem to make this as expensive if not more than the LTwoo eRX. Have you used it? How does it compare? I have the LTwoo eGR on my gravel bike and its been great. But thinking of some electronic groupset update for my chinese carbon road bike.
They're working on distribution, which should help on pricing. I was thinking of contacting LTwoo, and asking for a demo unit. Trouble is, I've got a massive backlog of stuff to discuss on the channel already!!! Think I'd like to try it though.
@@ribblevalleycyclist Their app is quite good. You can micro adjust each gear on the cassette. I used it while on the trail a week or two ago when 5th and 6th were just not quite right. Not true wireless I guess, more like di2, with a battery in the seat post, but seems good so far. I've not given it any HARD use though.
UPDATE: right shifter ran out of power. So replaced the CR battery. Won’t show up in the app as it says it’s sleeping. And also won’t change gears. It’s communicating with the rear as when you press it and the lever and rear green lights flash. But press it and gears do nothing. Strangely it works in the app. Also when i change from big ring and small sprocket to little ring and the gears jump up 2 at the back, I can change down with the lever but then it’s stuck there again and nothing happens. I’m swapping back to mechanical until I can get it sorted but too many issues in my experience. I’ve had them since May.
Would it be possible to switch between 10 & 12 speed wheels easily with this, or does it need indexing / aligning every time you change the number of speeds? I'm looking at a used Tiagra 10 speed adventure bike, but I was wondering if I could keep the Tiagra wheels for off-road and swap on the 12 speed wheels from my road bike if I want to ride the adventure bike on the road (e.g. if I need mudguards for a wet club ride)
Interestingly, Campag. have removeable batteries and they ain't been 'shot' by Sram. - this review has been scrutinized to fk and on par it seems great, wtf do you expect di2/ axs red ? for the price...
I just got my dts tx. Even though the bottoms feel easy to click/press I have to really press down to get them shift; my finger tips hurt! Is your experience the same?
Mine shifts well going from the small sprocket to the large. However, when downshifting (going from large to small sprocket) gear 8 and 5 dont shift but skip. Any advise?
I had similar issue , but not that will not shift, just rub a little in one direction ( lower to hight in just two gears , but ok other way ), I suggest you play with fine tunning in those gears ,in small steps , I discovered that not every time the exact position in center of cog / pulley will work the best for both sides of shifting
Please tell if they update the app. I'm really interested in getting a pair for rim brake bikes. I want to get the best bang for the buck as it is still a lot of money for latin american salaries.😅
SIr, are you already a member in the official group of wheeltop users in facebook. lots of issues are posted. this gs is gem to others and some its pain in the A**
Bearing jockey wheels cost... 3 bucks, for a pair, full metal with sealed bearings Shimano using their crap bushing jockey wheels because at the volume they ship the pennies they save actually makes a difference
Still seems to be too many teething problems with these chinese sets. Think i'll stick with mechanical. It just works. i'll get electronic one day but it's just not a must have.
Impossible to load app, check USA and it shows Canada, put in a password, ad it does not use it, if you cant get the app to work, hows the equipment going to be,,JUNK
Makes me mad. SRAM decided not to support those of us who are still using our perfectly working rim brake bikes by not making a rim brake option with wireless shifting. Then they lean on Wheeltop about removable batteries. Shame on SRAM.
Semi-finished? Not sure what you mean but judging by several reviews this product is perfectly finished and at a reasonable price with comparable features (or more).
Its great having cheap stuff ,until it breaks . The support on this stuff is shit . It takes 4 days for a shimano warranty replacement ,ill happly pay more for tgat
I thought that 4 months is a too short period for any authoratitve reviewew, but That wear on the FD cage is outrageous. Now you can see where they cut corners to price their products lower than shimano or sram. This is something you won't see in praising, first-impression videos. I will consider this groupset once they fix the stiff rubber hoods, rectify their app and make it even chepear. Right, it is no incentive for me to switch from mechanical shifting.
I still ride fixed. Too much tech on these things for me. Too complicated. Give me Campag Mirage any day if I need gears. My old Bianchi has this 9 speed groupset . Never let me down in 20 years.
People that ride fixed don't ride mountains. It's a silly argument. If you only need a fied gear...awesome. As for the amount of gears...yes...there's an argument there given most people probably haven't got the right setup rather than not having enough gears.
Well said! I have a Bianchi ML 3 with the exact same set up. In yellow. Aluminium frameset, carbon forks. Always there for me. Campag Mirage rocks! Total control!
Quick tip: I use a ziptie to "pull" the hoods to open a bleed port. By hands, it's almost impossible, but having ziptie as leverage worked just fine.
Now that is a great tip right there!!!! Thanks 👍
Brilliant!
This tip wins the internet for me today
Nice
Genius Level Thinking
Best review on this groupset I've seen up to now.
Thanks 👍
Its not a review when theyre paid to say good things mate.
Agreed. Smells like a paid review. 😢He also didn't say how many km he put on I think. So what's the point
No money has changed hands.
Roughly 1.2k…. miles
Trust me chaps, I need neither the money nor the equipment. I do it because I like doing it….. But you make me question why I bother. Thanks 👍
Would be the best review if they used a 13s cassette. Nope just another 11/12s review.
9:00 If you setting up as race mode, the groupset will not automatic sleep, so the manual recommends you after riding then switch to common mode.
Thanks for this review. Ran across this groupset while looking for something to put on my semi-dedicated trainer bike. Was surprised to see this also comes in a rim-brake version!
Nice to see the Garmin 810 get a mention. Im still using mine 4 - 5 times a week and its still going strong. Interesting watch, tho im still on 105 mechanical rim brakes and like it simple 😊
Great in-depth analysis. I have had mine (rim brakes) for a couple of weeks and it's been working really well, but it is my first electronic groupset as I have been using 105 mechanical so far. I could not see the screw on the FD and I struggled to line it up with the chainring, but eventually I managed to do it. Somehow I worked through the set up in the app, even if you have to interpret the translation. I am keeping it in casual mode and I really like it, there is a little FD rub when I cross chain on the big ring, but minimal. I will check the wear in a few months, but I would not go through bad weather if I can avoid it. Luckily I don't have to bleed the brakes, if anything my rim braking seems better with the same callipers and the new levers, maybe they have a different pull ratio.
*The Support Bolt:*
I talked a lot more about this in the video, but cut it out in the edit, as I thought I was going on, and nobody would care...... That was a mistake!!
The Support Bolt was originally used on mechanical groupsets as a brace between the derailleur and frame. It was needed due to the pressure from the spring on the frame and strap. However, it also offers adjustment to the alignment between the derailleur and chainrings. Nowadays, with electric shifting, those forces aren’t present, so the screw isn’t technically needed for support, but can still offer adjustment.
TBH, as it's not 'Technically' needed, Wheeltop would've been better off leaving it out.
*FD Wear:*
You can't stop the wear when shifting, but you can dial it out when riding. There are 6 positions for the FD, understanding these can help with chain rub, and it will help to reduce chain wear to the FD. This Wheeltop document details those positions:
docs.google.com/document/d/1XmM7enMUmZ_mClXzVrNIUDlt9Ci0PJWpmsJoQ9jhEWo/edit?usp=sharing
My old di2 11 speed used to trim perfectly, I think it even pivoted as well as dropped down if you went to 50/28 for example. I like to be able to use the whole cassette in the big ring even tho on any set up it will likely be more noisy. What calipers are you using? I have either 105 or ultrgra (the final ones they made)
Thanks for the in-depth, honest real-world review.
OZ cycles has also done a deep dive and mentions that, in theory, the batteries are DIY replaceable, as long as you know how reseal them (weatherproofing).
Thanks, glad you liked it.
I'm tempted to contact Wheeltop, and ask them to supply me one to strip down and replace the battery..... So I can make a video showing how it's done. Suspect they wouldn't be up for it though, as it'd result in users everywhere doing the same!!
Steven Leffanue / oz cycle was convicted of torturing and beating his neighbours dog to death. dont watch his channel.
Reviews with that detail insight are of great value. Thank you!
Thanks, Mischa, glad you found it useful. Will grab a coffee on the next ride 👍
I'll leave my impressions here as a somewhat early user (May) that does ~15h/week:
- Setup was painful to say the least... I have had to tinker with the RD numbers on a training ride because chain was quite noisy and skipping. Ever since then I've had no issues.
- Shifting is good enough. I have a GRX Di2 11sp and it's definitely not better but it gets the job done for a road groupset. It just works fine if you set it up properly.
- Wear is noticecable on my FD, just like shown in this video. Luckily I use hotwax as lube so it's not a 100% metal to metal contact. Bolt heads are all rusty as well.
- Breaking feels like my old ultegra. I was lucky enough to be able to buy the groupset without calipers, so I kept my ultegra calipers. No issues here.
- Battery life is doing fine for the most part. I had to swap to Casual mode because my battery was drained after a week when using comp mode and it was pretty annoying. I went through two sets of shifter batteries for some reason...
Overall is a decent groupset that does what it's meant to do on a budget. If you like the shifter shape (very important for me), you are on a budget and don't mind slower shifting, then I'd go for it since electronic shifting is much much better (at least for me). I'm still waiting for them to list replacements.... So once they do, I feel like it'll get more attention. I am kind of worried about the shifter battery cap... The o-rings there are stupidly thin and one of them broke... so I am worried now about waterproffness...
Hope it helps.
Thanks for sharing, Jorge. Sounds similar to my experience, to be fair. 👍
sounds like you guys do not know how to set up your front FD
Obrigado 🇧🇷😉🤙🏼
@@luismanrique5373maybe just maybe it could be the FD itself as there seems to be a lot of people which somehow don’t know how to set up a FD. Strange on all my other bikes I somehow know how to do it. 🤷♂️
Hi Jon, Have been waiting for this review for some time, thank you, i believe that WheelTop will take your points onboard and future iterations concerning hardware and software updates and improvements will be considered.. Excellent Video. Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Rear derauleur adjustment for 12 speed 11-36 cassette.
I made it simple, and it works:
There was an interesting difference between adjustment nubers. So, as there is the same pull ratio in cable groups, i decided to make the same for electronic one, except first and last gear.
Adjustmen start from 0 for small sprocket and ends with 2000 for big sprocket.
I left 260 points for 2nd sprocket as it was made by Wheeltop. Then i adjust all other gears with 170 points between gears. Than used to make final adjustment between 7 and 8 gear (160 points), and 10and11 gear (190 points), probably because i have an Aliexpress cassette. In the end, i have 210 point diference between 11 and 12 sprocket.
As said before, it works.
I think that you'll find is that this works as good, if not better, than equivalent main brand components. We're conditioned to think things should cost way more, and that's a sign of qualify. But the reality is, name brands have been ripping us off for decades.
Speaking a lot of sense 👍👏🏻
A small nuance from my experience(2 weeks ;) ) with Wheeltop EDS-TX - shifting is as good as it's indexed. My shifting works great, but I spend around an hour in total fine-tuning every gear individually via app - it's not hard at all, just requires some proper attention.
I have another bike(Canyon Endurace CF SLX) with an Ultegra Di2 groupset, and besides ergonomics, I can't really tell which shifting is "better". Ultegra engages rapid shift(when I hold an up/down rear gear button) quicker. But besides that, I can't say Whelltop works any differently.
Great informative video Jon,very well made,waiting with great anticipation for your next release,many thanks.
Looking forward to getting back in the workshop. 👍
I’ve just spent a week in the Alps riding with the groupset with no issues, other than the one John mentioned about chain rubbing the front derailleur when on the big ring and trying to go onto the 4 biggest rear cassette cogs. I do have oval chainrings on the front too so though this could be a contributing factor. Other cyclist in my group running Ultegra Di2 both also had issues with theirs.
Every gear change was bang on and the Garmin feature that tells you’ve run out of gears is bittersweet when you’re on a stinking climb!
Great job! I’ve had my EDS TX for months now and I love it…..for the most part. It took forever to set up, but once it was, I forgot it was there. I ended up taking the front derailleur off and making it a 1x system on my steel framed bike and since then I’ve had zero issues. The biggest crux of the group set is the front derailleur, in my opinion.
I've got the rim brake version and it works perfectly. I had tiu fine ture a couple of gears, that's all. After 500 miles I've started to get the low battery warning on my Garmin, too. On it's app it is still at 60%. Apparently that is a reported Gamin issue when reading the sensors via bluetooth.
Thanks!! There’s been talk about FD being slow… is it really a problem?
Cheers Sam, will grab a coffee on the next ride. I haven't really noticed that. Now I think about it, it may be slightly slower than others...... but it's not so slow that it causes a problem. I wouldn't worry about it.
Cant wait for their 1x gravel specific gset
Thanks for your review My biggest gripe is with the APP in trying to understand the instructions
I'm a visual kind of guy yep that's correct give me instructions in video format and hey presto alls good Fingers crossed that Wheeltop deliver video instructions soon Meanwhile I will continue trying to dial in the gears otherwise very happy Keep up the good reviews
My two pennyworth....I also resorted to pliers for the hood rubbers but I wrapped them in a towel first. I managed a full bleed on the back brake using 2 syringes but I couldn't get the front brake cover back far enough to access the bleed port - so I turned the bike upside down and bled via the caliper! Amazingly it worked fine.
Regarding initial setup via the App, my only problem was the one Tracevelo had with his front derrailleur - but mine was with the rear. This happens if you enter initial calibration in anything other than biggy small.
I can highly recommend the video by TilmanvonderRadelbande for set up and fine tuning.
And finally, one feature I'm only just realising is the difference between a long and short press on the left shifter button. A long press will force the FD to its maximum movement to facilitate the chain moving from one chainring to the the other. A short press will initially move the chain to the max and then trim it back to the best position according to the chosen cog on the cassette. I think!
Also believe that with the firmware update, if you have it in race mode and battery goes below a certain level, it automatically switches to casual mode. I have not tested it yet but worth a note.
Yes, this was what the update notes suggested, I think.
I think of the "support" screw as needed for bracing the front derailleur against the seat tube to address the high leverage of the servo. There have been "braze on" frame attachments broken when unsupported (Cannondale).
Great review!
Was the issue with mechanical systems and the resistance needed to push against a strong spring? Or does it also apply to electronic?
Agreed, M. Talley, you're spot on. It can be used for both what you say, and what I say....... Although technically, it's meant for 'Support', hence it's name. However, we don't see the pressures in electric, like we do in mechanical. And as I say, you can't get to it once it's in place anyway, so it serves no purpose for either use. To be honest, they've been better off just not adding it to the design.
@@MrJwmurph Both as far as Shimano goes. Newer model Shimano road and gravel address having higher leverage with a small sticker-on metal plate (if needed) for the set screw to contact. Newer braze-on bands have a section incorporated for the same reason.
The plate makes sense for carbon frames as well for protecting paint finish on steel and aluminum.
On this Wheeltop mechanism it seems they didn't think the design through.
I have 2 sets of these on both of my rim and disc brake road bikes. I do admit that the FD setup is painful, I broke a my FD during my first installation. But after a couple of Bilibili videos details of how to set up the FD, the entire group works very well. Also, wheeltop replaced my broken FD's cage without asking anything, so warranty in China is at least good.
The May frimware update this year allows us to connect this groupset to bike computers, so gearing can be seen directly during rides. Also, the chinese manual has been completly rewriten, so the setup process makes a lot more sence.
There are problems at the moment wheeltop still needs to address. Such as that stiff shifterhood, the fitment of rd charging port's seal and level reach adjustments for both types of shifters. But as their road drivetrain first attempt , it is good enough for budget minded cyclists.
My experience are very similar to yours on the groupset although I have the rim brake version. I haven't seen the rusting or so much wear on my FD cage but I tend to ride in dry weather, otherwise I use the turbo and that's where my Wheeltop will sit once our terrible summer has turned into a wet winter!
For my purposes the Wheeltop is a workhorse, I've Di2 on my fancier bikes but the Wheeltop perfectly fits my requirements for an upgrade to a bike (from mechanical) which I didn't want or need to spend a lot on.
I found the change quality to be chain dependent, it didn't like KMC chains but worked well with Shimano DA lubed with Silca Synergetic.
The carbon shifter levers have a very fragile finishing coat, they scratch easily so don't leave the bike resting against a wall!
The supplied brake cables seem to have a low friction coat so you really need to tighten up the pinch clamps on the calipers to stop cable slip.
Sounds like we have a similar setup then. Good tip on the shifters. To be honest, I've always found Shimano chains shift best with Shimano groupsets. I feel the HyperGlide technology prefers the directional Shimano setup.
Curious, can you use the existing calipers (105 for example) instead of the wheel top?
I’ve just started watching your channel and truly enjoy your delivery. Well done!
Yes you can!
Front derauleur position shown correct by Wahoo Elemnt Roam2.
Nice, hoping to see the DIY battery replacement when it's time :)
I'd be more than happy to do a battery replacement video, if Wheeltop would be willing to send me a derailleur and a replacement battery. Wouldn't want to scrap a perfectly good derailleur though.
@@ribblevalleycyclist Yeah, you should hustle them with lil bit tenacity until they give in. That ought to do it, for the sake of science.
@ahafeezs It’d be in their interest, it’d address the “I ain’t buying it, you can’t replace the battery” haters.
@@ribblevalleycyclist fo shizzle my wizzle, who wanna buy groupo with expiry date. Even EV car battery can be replaced. I dunno how the heck SRAM can get the "removable battery electronic groupo" patented. clown world.
@ahafeezs Ain’t that the truth. My other half is a corporate lawyer, and she was shocked by that one.
Great review!
I'm interested in their EDS. For the e-bike mountain bike version, the derailleur is different, but they will need replacing every two years if the battery dies out of warranty, as the battery can't be replaced! They used the micro-fine tune in their new MTB version. A friend just got it, and it's incredible, to be honest! Just that non-removable battery that's stopping me going ahead with the order oh and the reply I got from them I would have to pay the post office customs charge at this end!
i think the difference in shifting quality for your wheeltop setup is mostly due to the 105 cassette not having the latest hyperglide standard that ultegra cassettes use
Just got my nahds on this groupset - what is the biggest cassette you could fit in the back? Wheeltop says 36, but the long cage seems huge! Thanks for the video
Another great video, wonder if Shimano are looking at this company, emailing me, had some good convos then suddenly said sorry we don’t have any left then stopped communicating
Glad you liked it mate. Yeah, I hear stock is low!!
Worth using ACF50 on any bolts which may corrode 😊 great review.. pete
Hey Jon. How did you resolve the support bolt issue? A longer bolt with some threadlock, perhaps? Also, if you turned it around, is the head not accessible from the other side?
As for FD wear, would it be possible to stick on a shimano (or DIY) plastic protector - or even replace the lower cage with a shimano one?
*The Support Bolt:*
I talked a lot more about this in the video, but cut it out in the edit, as I thought I was going on, and nobody would care...... That was a mistake!!
The Support Bolt was originally used on mechanical groupsets as a brace between the derailleur and frame. It was needed due to the pressure from the spring on the frame and strap. However, it also offers adjustment to the alignment between the derailleur and chainrings. Nowadays, with electric shifting, those forces aren’t present, so the screw isn’t technically needed for support, but can still offer adjustment.
TBH, as it's not 'Technically' needed, Wheeltop would've been better off leaving it out.
*FD Wear*:
Shimano don't use one on their electric FD's (For the above reason I suspect). I checked my Shimano Di2 FD, and it didn't look like the Wheeltop one.
@ribblevalleycyclist Ah, thanks for the insight.
Let's see how it goes in another few months👍
Sram have support for electronic groupset.
10:10 I really wish Sram to go bankrupt at this point. At least Shimano patented something really trivial as trimming. Great review tho.
SRAM doesn't do spare parts, Red rear derailleur costs over £700!
I m running rim brake version and it runs very well. But my head unit which is Bryton S500 didn't show the gear position correctly. Both front and rear, it's like inverted effect..
Do you have rattle in the shift levers?, the cable version , the cable pulls back on the inside of the lever, and no rattle but the hydraulic ones the levers move forward and back just a bit, causing a rattle,,,,,there kinda free floating if ya will so on a bumpy road the levers rattle on the contact point of the hydraulic plunger under the lever. Just wondering if yours rattle “””””!
Other than this I have no issues.
I’ve not noticed a rattle, will double check it though.
Good job. I hope you'll have a reply of Wheeltop after this video.
I highly doubt that SRAM Patent thing.....Campagnolo has removable batteries on its wireless groupset.
The biggest issue is the front derailleur rubbing in lowest gear and nigh on impossible to fix. As per trace velo has experienced.
The rear one for me has worked well with lots of adjustments.
The rear battery cover is rubbish as you mention.
Update: after several useless conversations with wheel top I got the FD sorted by using the debug in the app. Using the Front derailleur section, Alter gear 5 position to 1300 (it may be more or less for you as default is 1080) and all works well. Unless you are told this as I was (by a Facebook group) you wouldn’t have a clue how to do this, it took literally 1minute. After spending countless hours.
The front derailleur does seem to have adjustments on all 6 points, so I’d be interested to have a play around with that. Trouble is, i daren’t, as it’ll end up even worse 😬
Yep, ended up worse at one point. I’ve given up to be honest as I’ve spent so much time on it. I Just limit the of use my 30 to avoid the chain rub noise. 😢
@@iamthedalilama I know someone in Denmark on facebook on the eds group page had a issue with his right shifter and was not changing up the clogs(fixed now). I asked about this chain rub with the FD and he's managed to set it fine and he is using 11-32 cassette . on 52 ring and on 32 clog showed me a picture and I can tell you it is 1-2 mm clearance from the inside cage. So it can be done.
One thing to point out are the hoods replaceable, and can you use Shimano hoods?
I have recently installed this group set , was getting some chain noise going down the block so swapped my cassette and chain , opened up the app and began to tune the gears ,1st checking it was on 11 speed pressed confirm, moved on to select gears went up to 7 and then pressed to go up to 8 suddenly shot down the block to 2 ,tried it several times , this got me scratching my head, so look at the values for each gear and 11 was at 0 .. how? Soon as I reset to 1795 it went all through the gears again 🤷🏼♂️, now I can fine tune each gear
Do you know where the scan code is located on front derailleur to pair it to the system? I accidentally deleted it.
Would heating the rubbers on the shifters with a hairdryer help. I have had to do that with several things on cars before
"The app! The app! The battery! The firmware update!" - F*ck it. I stick to mechanical shifting.
The lack of removable batteries is a deal breaker for me. The sram patent? Is that for real?
Unfortunately, and surprising...... Yes!! How they got that through is beyond me!
Or the usual story they spend the money on the build quality and save on the battery? I did read its got a 1000 charge cycle online gives it a 2 year life span (ish) but that's only on a review online, however it is a chunky unit so might have a big lipo in there which again can swell up through time if left uncharged time will tell that's it but you can get sram GX upgrade set for same price now new so yeah hard decision to make! And I'm in this situation at the moment waiting for TRP A12 EASI or go ahead with the sram? I'll buy the sram GX amd the TRP will come out a week later haha
16:00 you mean the DI2 is does not shift better but compared to wheeltop is different because they are not using the same cassette and chain.... make change out the chain and cassette and test it....
new batch you cannot fine tuning the front derailleur. and no option for update your firmware.
Shimano 105 cassette and chain shifts worse than Dura ace counterpart? Is this really true? Have you tried the Shimano Ultegra Di2 with 105 cassette and chain? Because I think short cage is the key here and not being 105 vs Dura ace. Short cage derailleurs usually shift better than long cage due to less chain wrap and usually smaller distance between cogs. Im telling this because I had a bike with 105 short cage and 105 11-28 cassette. Changed to long cage derailleur and 11-34 cassette and now the shifting isn't as good as it used to be so I suspect it has to do more with that than dura ace componentry.
App website does not work on my apple ipad or phone. Can not finish registration
Why not set up with the higher-end Shimano cogset/chain and see if things improve? After all, you got all the Wheelstop stuff free, right?
Oh, I'm sure if I used a Dura Ace cassette and chain, the shifting would improve slightly. But I set it up as I imagined the 'Typical' user would.
Local prices seem to make this as expensive if not more than the LTwoo eRX. Have you used it? How does it compare? I have the LTwoo eGR on my gravel bike and its been great. But thinking of some electronic groupset update for my chinese carbon road bike.
They're working on distribution, which should help on pricing. I was thinking of contacting LTwoo, and asking for a demo unit. Trouble is, I've got a massive backlog of stuff to discuss on the channel already!!! Think I'd like to try it though.
@@ribblevalleycyclist Their app is quite good. You can micro adjust each gear on the cassette. I used it while on the trail a week or two ago when 5th and 6th were just not quite right. Not true wireless I guess, more like di2, with a battery in the seat post, but seems good so far. I've not given it any HARD use though.
UPDATE: right shifter ran out of power. So replaced the CR battery. Won’t show up in the app as it says it’s sleeping. And also won’t change gears. It’s communicating with the rear as when you press it and the lever and rear green lights flash. But press it and gears do nothing. Strangely it works in the app. Also when i change from big ring and small sprocket to little ring and the gears jump up 2 at the back, I can change down with the lever but then it’s stuck there again and nothing happens. I’m swapping back to mechanical until I can get it sorted but too many issues in my experience. I’ve had them since May.
Do you have a comparison with L-Twoo groupset ?
Would it be possible to switch between 10 & 12 speed wheels easily with this, or does it need indexing / aligning every time you change the number of speeds?
I'm looking at a used Tiagra 10 speed adventure bike, but I was wondering if I could keep the Tiagra wheels for off-road and swap on the 12 speed wheels from my road bike if I want to ride the adventure bike on the road (e.g. if I need mudguards for a wet club ride)
Can the battery be easily replaced?
Interestingly, Campag. have removeable batteries and they ain't been 'shot' by Sram. - this review has been scrutinized to fk and on par it seems great, wtf do you expect di2/ axs red ? for the price...
Can this be run as a 1x? Just don't install front deraileur?
Wheeltop is about to release their EDS GX gravel groupset. My channel will be one of the first to receive it. Watch this space!!
I just got my dts tx. Even though the bottoms feel easy to click/press I have to really press down to get them shift; my finger tips hurt! Is your experience the same?
Mine shifts well going from the small sprocket to the large. However, when downshifting (going from large to small sprocket) gear 8 and 5 dont shift but skip. Any advise?
I had similar issue , but not that will not shift, just rub a little in one direction ( lower to hight in just two gears , but ok other way ), I suggest you play with fine tunning in those gears ,in small steps , I discovered that not every time the exact position in center of cog / pulley will work the best for both sides of shifting
Please tell if they update the app. I'm really interested in getting a pair for rim brake bikes. I want to get the best bang for the buck as it is still a lot of money for latin american salaries.😅
SIr, are you already a member in the official group of wheeltop users in facebook. lots of issues are posted. this gs is gem to others and some its pain in the A**
Or, what if you heat that rubber with a heat gun before pulling them?
Bearing jockey wheels cost... 3 bucks, for a pair, full metal with sealed bearings
Shimano using their crap bushing jockey wheels because at the volume they ship the pennies they save actually makes a difference
Maybe you cab help Luke from trace velo.
A patent on removable battery and auto adjust ridiculous- if it was given.
Agree. Like having a patent on a cordless drill 😅
🥇
👍
Re Garmin reporting low battery. I have Ribble ebike, Garmin reports low battery every time they connect. So likely Garmin issue.
Somebody has a error 0X01 RD doesn't work
Still seems to be too many teething problems with these chinese sets. Think i'll stick with mechanical. It just works. i'll get electronic one day but it's just not a must have.
How does metal seals on joykey wheels are well made thing? they die and will jam in no time
Holy shit..i've had my di2 6770 for 120,000k and my FD doesn't look even remotely like that FD.
Impossible to load app, check USA and it shows Canada, put in a password, ad it does not use it, if you cant get the app to work, hows the equipment going to be,,JUNK
Great review Jon but this stuff's not for me.
I hear that 👍
Great review! This is why I am SRAM AXS 100%. Paid more? Yippers......but works!
Makes me mad. SRAM decided not to support those of us who are still using our perfectly working rim brake bikes by not making a rim brake option with wireless shifting.
Then they lean on Wheeltop about removable batteries. Shame on SRAM.
A good point well made 👍
Why would i go for this over rival axs and blips for 400 euro?
Long term review? 4 months is only long term if you’re caterpillar. Good luck getting tech support from wheeltop. I’ll stick with the big 2 brands.
Mechanical 105 is better, no reason to have a risk with that semi-finished product.
Semi-finished? Not sure what you mean but judging by several reviews this product is perfectly finished and at a reasonable price with comparable features (or more).
@@MrKent84 these reviews are sponsored by the factory) try eds by yourself and you will understand what I mean)))
use zip ties to hold black the hood rubbers ... 👨🏻🍳
Its great having cheap stuff ,until it breaks .
The support on this stuff is shit .
It takes 4 days for a shimano warranty replacement ,ill happly pay more for tgat
im in the market but sram wont be in the competition if they have that dumb patent 😂😂
Temu groupset
Same as Winspace...give it a generation or two more and it'll be worth buying...dont think it is yet.
I thought that 4 months is a too short period for any authoratitve reviewew, but That wear on the FD cage is outrageous. Now you can see where they cut corners to price their products lower than shimano or sram. This is something you won't see in praising, first-impression videos. I will consider this groupset once they fix the stiff rubber hoods, rectify their app and make it even chepear. Right, it is no incentive for me to switch from mechanical shifting.
"Asked to review" and the discount code link to buy it makes it seem like youre incentivised to say good things. for that reason, im out
Integrity over anything
I still ride fixed. Too much tech on these things for me. Too complicated. Give me Campag Mirage any day if I need gears. My old Bianchi has this 9 speed groupset . Never let me down in 20 years.
There is a lot to be said for the old ways. Sold my 80's road bike, and regret it.
@@ribblevalleycyclist A question. Can you have a 36 tooth rear cog replacing the 34 tooth, on a Shimano Di2 groupset? Thanks in anticipation.
People that ride fixed don't ride mountains. It's a silly argument. If you only need a fied gear...awesome. As for the amount of gears...yes...there's an argument there given most people probably haven't got the right setup rather than not having enough gears.
@@out_spocken what about the riders in the Tour de France when it started? No bloody gears in those days!
Well said! I have a Bianchi ML 3 with the exact same set up. In yellow. Aluminium frameset, carbon forks. Always there for me. Campag Mirage rocks! Total control!