Would love to see more videos about cat engines! The b model specifically, just bought a 1988 379 Pete looking to keep it around a long time. Videos like this will make that possible. no matter how much money the truck makes or doesn’t make I want to do these kinds of repairs myself. That gives you a true understanding of what’s getting you down the road everyday and makes understanding and diagnosing problems easy.
@@johngoldsmith6629 4mg29870 is what I was told. Everything seams to match. That’s what was put in it from factory and I was told it was the same engine. Only thing is I can’t find a plate on the engine itself, so i dont know for sure.
@@micahfreeberg574 The serial number is stamped in the block, it is on the passenger side, number five cylinder. About four to five inches or so below the exhaust. Shows to be in a PB, you can call PB and give them the vin. They can tell you what engine the truck was born with. Arrangement No: 9Y-2449 Mfg Model: 3406B Mktg Model Year: 1988 Prod Family: ZI 3406/C15 Engines Sims Prod Family: 62 Truck Engines Source Facility: 40 Engine Develop And Mfg 7-18L Principle Work: D10 Trucks - On-Highway Build Date: 16Jun1988 Factory Ship Date: Not Applicable Dealer/Invoiced Ship Date: 27Jun1988 Sales Date: 27Jun1988 Delivery Date: 19Jul1988 Selling Dlr: D99L Owner Cls: E 317 BRAKE KW (425 BHP) AT 2100 RPM. CARB-CERTIFIED, PETERBILT Only repair showing at Cat was the governor recall. This engine has a very bad timing advance. Numerous recalls and updates. The carrier likes to slip, so the timing advance will turn slower if it doesn't have the updated carrier. With the cover off the advance see if the flyweights will turn, I use a screw driver and push on the side of the weight. Don't get wild, don't want to break anything. If they do you need to rebuild your VTU, also other updates on the snap ring, races, small lock nut. The bushings that hold each injection pump down causes the pump not to seat in the bore. Cat has updated the bushing. If you replace the bushings, you have to center the rack and pull the pump out. Be clean, clean and clean. If your not you will get dirt, etc in the sealing area and put fuel in the oil. The governor tach drive seal likes to leak oil. Video shows on governor guide depth, when you replace the seal. Have to be careful, with the outer housing off. A flyweight can drop out and when you start the engine. The flyweight will come out the side of the inner housing. I use the flyweight race off a 8PN, has a larger OD. Also the flyweight carrier has been update with stops to prevent this, if something fails. Fuel injection lines, has to have clamps and brackets to secure the lines. I like to use the set up on an 8PN 3406 C. However I do mine a little different then the book. Adept Ape has two videos on this engine, one on the engine, other one is pulling a nozzle out, watch them. Fuel Ratio Control (FRC), diaphragm likes to blow sometimes. The housing gets a sharp edge and will cut it. I put a beveled edge on it (part that it rest on). Some people just put a plate on the back. Have to be careful, as black smoke will roll out the exhaust. Jacobs Brake, should have a three point stand. If I recall you can buy some more parts and make it a little stronger. Head bolts will have to come out. So you have to pull a valve cover and see on the exhaust side if you have one stand or two.
Really loved watching this! Will probably never rebuild a fuel pump for a CAT engine, but it sure was satisfying to watch! A clean build in a clean shop and everything done properly! Maybe not according to all of CAT's guidelines, but what matters is that the end result is up to par. Love it it when people take their time to go through each step carefully and also take the time to educate you in the process. I think you demonstrated very good workshop practice and would love to do something similar in a similarly well organized shop! Thank you for all the time and effort you put into making this!
This is the very best video that I have ever seen on a Cat fuel pump. I think that you could build that pump in your sleep. Anyone with a manual cat engine should watch this video.
Gotta be almost 30 years since I rebuilt a 3406b pump. Did a few earlier drive shaft driven 3406 pumps. Also done a few 3208 pumps. The throttle shafts would wear out quickly. I still have the bonnet wrenches for the inside spline and the outside spline bonnets. Thank you for bringing back memories.
I've got to say thank you for making this video. It gave me the knowledge and the confidence to rebuild my pump in my 84 peterbilt 359. I had already done barrels and plungers in the past but was always squeamish to mess with the governor. With the help of your video and the Cat manual I completely rebuilt the governor with all upgraded parts. Mine were old style and worn out. I now have piece of mind it isn't coming apart on the road. Saved some coin and have a sense of pride I did it myself. Thanks again.
Your races against the flyweights was best to use one out of a 8PN, larger OD. Flyweights updated, bolts that hold carrier on updated, I put spacers out of a PEEC VTU to help center the FRC lever. Bushings that hold the pumps in are updated. Seals behind the pump and mounting seals updated. List goes on that is not in the parts book.
Excellent video of the injection pump. I have a 3406c that I’m having a low power issue with. Im looking for some information on how to trouble shoot it would you be able to help me out?
Excellent Video, I watched a cat guy demonstrate everything not to do when reassembling one of these and it instantly started putting 1 gallon of fuel per 100mi in the oil . It had dirt under the timing Spacers on two of them. I bought the manual for these and studied it and went to work resealing 10 of them for a guy. When reusing the barrel and plungers with new bonnets and lapped barrel to bonnet surface torqthe holdown bushing to 220 ft lbs with used barrel and plungers only. New ones can score from the tighter bores from the way they tend to deflect from the higher torque. Perfect video. I've heard a lot of guys that were half right and half misinformed but you've definitely spent as much or more time than me studieng the book at some point In your life. Never you should do one on the timing advance and how to properly setting it and using the cat 8T5300 Timing meter! Absolutely the only way you can set the timing and see it in real time advance when and how much its suppose too which is not possible to do without having a meter. Many tricks to that I learned over the years too.
@@johngoldsmith6629 the 220 spec was in a TSB from cat.. also showed the chemical cleaning process that cleans the staining from the top of the barrel where the bonnets seal. I've used the 220 spec for years with no issues. Like when the oring that seals the bonnet starts leaking I just replace the oring a torque to 220 and the drivers almost always tell me it runs smoother after. (Missed before slightly)
@@johngoldsmith6629 not sure if I mentioned that this is only recommended with used barrel and plunger with either a lapped original or a new style one...if you torque a new barrel and plunger assembly to 220 it will score it and destroy it. I probably never mentioned that part. I'll find the TSB and post it.
Heard Adept Ape mention your name. Had to check out your vid. I used to have a 3406B. Rebuilt entire engine over 4yrs before I sold it. I like these older engines! Great job
This was a really AWESOME vid! Very well done! I drive a 6NZ but my wife has a B model in her buggy. This vid was a fantastic how to combined with the how it works! It’s pretty obvious you’ve done a few of these motors based on your handy little self checks and tricks. I’m really looking forward to your next vid. Hopefully it addresses the right side of the engine’s external lubrication system aka the oil cooler/filter assembly! Thanks a million!
Great video of showing telling about pump for the fuel,cause I need to know about that I got a cat 3406b. Might have to work on my pump right right thanks again for showing telling how to do it do it fixing that pump. Great job well see ya next time see ya bye.
Thanks so much for this awesome video!! I wish I had half of the knowledge you have for these pumps!! We sure could use you around here!! Thanks again, and keep up the excellent work and diligence!!!
A trick, take a white marker and mark the center of the rack teeth group for every barrel and plunger, so when you look down the bore you can verify the rack is centered when you put barrel and plunger in! Also made a tool that keeps spring pressure on the timing pin to also keep it tight against the pin! Cat has a 6V7050 3406 Compressor Group Tool that helps push down on the barrel and plunger that makes it easier to get the nut start with no load on the threads, works real well! Took a old nut and the top of an old barrel and plunger the threaded part brazed them together, did cut part of the threaded part back so nut threads were clear to engage injection pump! Used it to help get the first barrel and plunger started, then can use the 6v7050 to finish the rest!
Once in how do you check and verify gear on pump is timed correctly to rack? I just use the pin as the guide that is outlined in the T.E.N. article and or the service manual that shows you how to do it..
@@johngoldsmith6629 You know that cat goes to the dealers and asks questions of mechanics on what they have done to make it easier, well I have given them many a tool design I have made and they have taken it back and made them under a Cat number! So if you do not like the idea do not use it, it was only a hint of doing it easier, do as you please! During the retro fitting of newer engines in machines cat sent out engineers to see how our shop did what we did to make things fit, and made whole articles of how we did it, so your saying do not lesson to new ideas that make it easier, Okay! Oh, over 47 years as a engine mechanic, just saying!
Es usted un Maestro. He conocido su canal gracias a Adep-Ape, cuando ha armado el regulador se me ha cortocircuitado el cerebro, lo he tenido que ver varias veces.
Excellent instructional video, THANK YOU! If you could , please make one for setting the truck front timing advance on these pumps and timing the pumps properly.
You set static timing, (pin) with a bolt in the flywheel. The start and end of advance you have to set dynamically. The spring on the timing is based on engine serial number and HP. You install the timing indicator group, warm the engine up. You go to TMI on the Cat network, (you have to have Cat access) to find your timing information. Again it is based on serial number and HP. If the engine has been rerated, you have to use the performance spec. Once you get your spec, you first check ref timing window. It is usually 1,000 RPM's +/- 30 RPM's with a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now you have you base timing (slot cut in the fuel system camshaft). On NSFS you have 0.2 degrees of port effect for every 100 RPM's. So at ref RPM, (1,000 RPM's) you would add 2.0 degrees of advance for the port effect. So if your static timing on the fuel system camshaft was 24.0 degrees, (0) RPM's it would be 26.0 degrees of advance, at 1,000 RPM's. So you have graph paper, min RPM's would be 970 high to low. Max RPM's would be 1030 RPM's high to low. With max advance at 27.5 degrees and min advance at 24.5 degrees. If your in tolerance at ref RPM"s the next box is start of advance. Again TMI has start number. You box changes, now you have 100 RPM tolerance and a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now between ref RPM and start, you still have to add your 0.2 degrees of advance per 100 RPM's for port effect added to your start of advance. Next is your end of advance and your spec changes again. You still have the 100 RPM min max, but your timing tolerance now changes to 2.5 degrees for the end of advance. Again you draw your box adding port effect of 0.2 per 100 RPM's, plus you add the degrees of advance. Once you have your timing graphed on paper, engine warmed up. You start recording advance at every 100 RPM's to high idle. Now if your start and end of advance is not on 100 number, lets say start is 1355 RPM's. I get a reading at 1350 RPM's and so on for the end. While engine is warming up, I usually see what ref point is and when timing starts to advance and ends. If you know it has to be adjusted, why waste time doing the full run. First adjustment is ref window, then start window and finally end window. Once your satisfied of your settings now you can do the full run of 100 RPM readings and record your numbers. You go all the way up and then you check it back down. Your making sure on the way down it is not sticking. Once you have all your numbers going up, you put them on the graph paper to see how smooth your advance looks. That is why you DON"T play with the start and advance screws. You have to have this tool to set it or check it. It cost a few $1,000.00's dollars.
Thank you John goldsmith for the deep dive into setting the timing advance. I do not own the cat tool for setting the advance. I have always been fortunate in rebuilding advances that have not been messed with from factory settings. You obviously have done lots of these. If you ever want to sell the tooling and loan some knowledge I would be very interested. Thank you for the informative response
@@hellscanyondieselpower6537 Work for a Cat dealer, so I do not own the tool. But knowledge I do have. 92U engines was still being made when I hired in. The problem on VTU, numerous updates and design changes. I only do truck engines. So if the start and stop screws get messed with or a failure occurs that causes the screws to be damaged. You have to have this tool group. 3406's now called A models used a slide advance, no adjustment other then pin timing. Port effect on it is 0.1 per 100 RPM's. I always replaced the springs if I have one in the shop and advance is off. 3406 B VTU had a slipping problem. 7FB's and 4MG's 1-03599 has no fix. You can weld them between the snap ring, but the core is no good. Also on the later 7FB's Cat put a plastic screen in front of the fuel system camshaft. Always replace it, as it can melt.
Great video, do you have the part number for little filter on the AFR assembly? Your right about helcoil threads for those 2 bolts are shot and it let loose today on me.
I had to change one of my o ring on my 3406b because it was leaking so I decided to change all six. All of them was easy to change except one. The plunger popped up on me. Now I'm getting fuel in my oil. My question is should I go back and clean the metal washer under the plunger that popped up or should I go and clean all of them? I need had a problem until this one plunger popped up. Thanks in advance.
Always remove the pump and be clean. Now you don't know which spacer has trash under it. Keep the bushing in the hole it came out of. If the bushings are the old style it is best to update them. Depending on serial number you have two spacers. Do not get the wrong one. I would replace all the spacers, as they could be damaged. Also clean the housing and the bottom of the pump. Ask your dealer for Truck Engine News article 1985/11/01, Check Fuel Injection Replacement Pump Installation (SEBD6553-00). It shows you how to check timing after each pump is reinstalled. Four pumps will come out, two the cam lobe will be up so you will have to turn the engine to put them in. Remove the shut off, gasket part number 6I2002. Pump seal 1313719 pink, felt washer 8H9204, air compressor gasket 1293948. You will have to center the rack to R and I all the pumps. Make sure the rack is free before you torque the bushing. Make sure it is free after you torque each bushing. Have the intake off with something you can shut the air off. If the rack locks up, you will be out of the trucking business in thirty seconds.
Excellent video I would also like to know how to set the spring and screw on the timing advance. Also one on timing the engine I have one that sounds like it’s running cold I resealed the advance and it did help but I think it’s still not correct
You set static timing, (pin) with a bolt in the flywheel. The start and end of advance you have to set dynamically. The spring on the timing is based on engine serial number and HP. You install the timing indicator group, warm the engine up. You go to TMI on the Cat network, (you have to have Cat access) to find your timing information. Again it is based on serial number and HP. If the engine has been rerated, you have to use the performance spec. Once you get your spec, you first check ref timing window. It is usually 1,000 RPM's +/- 30 RPM's with a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now you have you base timing (slot cut in the fuel system camshaft). On NSFS you have 0.2 degrees of port effect for every 100 RPM's. So at ref RPM, (1,000 RPM's) you would add 2.0 degrees of advance for the port effect. So if your static timing on the fuel system camshaft was 24.0 degrees, (0) RPM's it would be 26.0 degrees of advance, at 1,000 RPM's. So you have graph paper, min RPM's would be 970 high to low. Max RPM's would be 1030 RPM's high to low. With max advance at 27.5 degrees and min advance at 24.5 degrees. If your in tolerance at ref RPM"s the next box is start of advance. Again TMI has start number. You box changes, now you have 100 RPM tolerance and a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now between ref RPM and start, you still have to add your 0.2 degrees of advance per 100 RPM's for port effect added to your start of advance. Next is your end of advance and your spec changes again. You still have the 100 RPM min max, but your timing tolerance now changes to 2.5 degrees for the end of advance. Again you draw your box adding port effect of 0.2 per 100 RPM's. Once you have your timing graphed on paper, engine warmed up. You start recording advance at every 100 RPM's to high idle. Now if your start and end of advance is not on 100 number, lets say start is 1355 RPM's. I get a reading at 1350 RPM's and so on for the end. While engine is warming up, I usually see what ref point is and when timing starts to advance and ends. If you know it has to be adjusted, why waste time doing the full run. First adjustment is ref window, then start window and finally end window. Once your satisfied of your settings now you can do the full run of 100 RPM readings and record your numbers. You go all the way up and then you check it back down. Your making sure on the way down it is not sticking. Once you have all your numbers going up, you put them on the graph paper to see how smooth your advance looks. That is why you DON"T play with the start and advance screws. You have to have this tool to set it or check it. It cost a few $1,000.00's dollars.
Very good instruction, I professionally repair injection pumps in Bosch service, but I will repair such a pump for the first time. Could you give me the part numbers for the seals for the pump and speed controller. Thank you.
Thank you so much for this video... I had a barrel plunger go out in the middle of nowhere and this video help me drop in a new one.. Can you do a timing video next lol
Couple types of timing advance. The older ones 7FB are the same. 4MG03600 and up to 8PN are basically the same, but they are slightly different. Number of bolts, spool valve, races and such.
loved the video helped alot, if you could, a video demonstrating how to reset the fuel/air screws back to "factory" would be much appreciated, i know how to turn it it up but i bought my truck already turned up gonna be rebuilding the pum soon and a base line starting point to set it at for break in period would reallly help!
Setting the rack, (FLS/FTS) back to factory setting. Requires the tooling from Cat. Also if you do not have the data plate you will have to call Cat with the engine serial number and they will have to access TMI. To set the Air Fuel Ratio setting, you still need the same tool group. You have the lever setting and when that is done. Next step is to setting the dynamic setting with the engine running. So you leave the dial indicator on the pump, start the engine. Cock the AFRC valve, rev the engine up wide open, real fast and read you dial indicator. It will not stay at that spot very long. Or you can purchase a electronic indicator along with the tooling to set the rack. Then as before on revving it up, you press the max function on the electronic indicator and see what it reads. Should not be to much over 5K, I would think for the tool group. Or you can do what I like to do. Remove the back cover off the FRC. Start the engine and push in on the valve to cock it. Rev the engine up to full throttle real fast and watch your smoke. Make an adjustment until your happy with acceleration vs black smoke. To set the set point or bumping the governor, you need the set point indicator along with the multitach tool group. Hook it all up and hit a hill and see what RPM set point is at full throttle. Set point is 20 RPM above full load speed, plus minus 10 RPM's. Then if you want to verify your timing is working properly, you can purchase the timing indicator group. Again you will need spec from Cat. All together I think around 10k should cover the price of the special tooling. And a chassis dyno helps getting the set point setting correct. Plus if you hook up the fuel metering device, you can see how many GPH your burning and adjust the rack to compensate for any wear. On a worn pump your allowed .5 MM above spec. Remember HP equal Gallons Per Hour times Fuel Density divided by Brake Specific Fuel Consumption. Hope this helps.
Pretty good explanation nicely explained some repeat but we all do that 😅 thanks for the advice and video. As long as you put out more vids I’ll subscribe.
lf you take the valve part of that piston and valve of the servo assembly and braze a washer to it, then put a spring between it and the injection pump, hook the valve on then end of the rack it will keep the rack pulled up against the timing pin so when put the barrel and plungers in it is a lot easier!
Hello, My 3406B engine had a starting problem, and I found diesel flowing through the outlet/ special fitting to the diesel tank during the hand priming and cranking. What is wrong with this issue. Appreciate for your help.
If rebuilding a truck pump, is it ever recommended to have it ran on a bench test to calibrate? Or is there not much calibration on these like Bosch pumps?
Not on a 3406 B or C with new pumps. The spacer/seal has no adjustment. Early scroll Cat pumps you had to use a degree wheel and measure injection timing (off the engine). Then pick the correct spacer/seal. Only adjustment would be the fuel settings, FRC lever and dynamic FRC setting. Then on the engine you would adjust set point. Now on sleeve metering fuel pumps, yes it needs to be bench tested. As the cross over rack (3208) and each lever has to be set. Now on the timing advance, you can set static timing (pin), but if you play with the start and stop screws. You have to set it dynamically with a timing indicator group. Read my comments below on dynamic timing.
@@johngoldsmith6629so the frc wouldn’t need any adjustment? Or if so, is that done on the engine? Sorry if your other comment talks about that. I’m not seeing it
@@BronsonA14 You have two adjustments on a 3406B & C engine. Most truck drivers dislike the FRC. If you are going to take it off. Order a cover where the FRC goes. Don't cut the valve off and destroy a high dollar part. The FRC, Air Fuel Ratio Control Valve, limits fuel until turbo psi builds up to prevent excess black smoke. The lever setting has to be done with a dial indicator. Once that is done, you leave the dial indicator on the engine. Start the engine and with the cover off the back of the FRC, press in on the valve to cock the FRC. Then you throttle the engine wide open very fast and read the dial indicator. It will hold it at the setting just for a moment. So you have to do it several times to see the setting. It could be negative or positive on the dial indicator. The way I do it, is with out the dial indicator. Same as before, with the cover off and engine running. Press in on the valve and cock it. Throttle wide open very fast and look at your exhaust. Turn the screw in for faster response and more black smoke. Turn it out for slower response and less black smoke. Remember black smoke is unburned fuel and money out of the pocket. Find the setting that you like. If you have a flat bed, no worry on more black smoke. If not your going to soot up your trailer. The FRC has changed slightly over the years, most people when the rebuild it. Don't change the internal seal. You have to take the jam nut off and take the screw out. The old part number is still in the book. The new part number is 3E6760, last longer. Also the part that the diaphragm sets on bottoms out against the retainer. It can cause a sharp edge and will cut the diaphragm. So I bevel the edge down to prevent this.; One of the main items on a Cat mechanical engine, is throttle travel. If it's to long you won't get full power. If to short, the throttle can wear out the governor housing and seal faster. As the cab can flex loading up the linkage. So on the throttle linkage on the governor, it has two pieces. You should feel the throttle linkage come to a stop, and when you press it more. The lever will deflect back, but the throttle in the governor will not move. This is called break over, and on the side you can see a slot in the lever lift off the inner part. You would like it about half way in the slot. If you move the linkage from the top slot to the lower slot you get more travel. So you have to see where your travel is, and make adjustments as needed. Loosen jam nut and turn end piece in or move linkage up or down. Now if you remove the bolt with the 3/8 head and turn the lever, that will adjust the pedal height. So you what to set it where you foot is not in an awkward position and at the end of the day your leg is not worn out.
I'm working on my 3406c I timed the rack to center of the lifter. I Dropped the plungers in and now I have a small miss now. It sputters when I hit the throttle now. I'm a diy guy just trying to get it back going. Btw the pump is still on the truck. Thanks for any help.
You should be able to Crack lines loose at the pump one at a time to see if the miss gets worse or stays the same. The one you Crack and it stays the same is the one that is probably out of time. If you install pumps injection pump on the truck you can still look through the front window and check rack travel after each install. But you should start by checking the travel before you mess with the pump. Also remove the shutdown solenoid when your changing the pumps. It frees up the rack
@@hellscanyondieselpower6537 A few times I have had a problem getting the pump back in time. What I have learned is take the pump apart and turn the darn spring over. For some reason the coils will pull it off center enough and prevent the pump from going back in and timed correctly.
You set static timing, (pin) with a bolt in the flywheel. The start and end of advance you have to set dynamically. The spring on the timing is based on engine serial number and HP. You install the timing indicator group, warm the engine up. You go to TMI on the Cat network, (you have to have Cat access) to find your timing information. Again it is based on serial number and HP. If the engine has been rerated, you have to use the performance spec. Once you get your spec, you first check ref timing window. It is usually 1,000 RPM's +/- 30 RPM's with a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now you have your base timing (slot cut in the fuel system camshaft). On NSFS you have 0.2 degrees of port effect for every 100 RPM's. So at ref RPM, (1,000 RPM's) you would add 2.0 degrees of advance for the port effect. So if you static timing on the fuel system camshaft was 24.0 degrees, (0) RPM's it would be 26.0 degrees of advance, at 1,000 RPM's. So you have graph paper, min RPM's would be 970 high to low. Max RPM's would be 1030 RPM's high to low. With max advance at 27.5 degrees and min advance at 24.5 degrees. If your in tolerance at ref RPM"s the next box is start of advance. Again TMI has start number. You box changes, now you have 100 RPM tolerance and a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now between ref RPM and start, you still have to add your 0.2 degrees of advance per 100 RPM's for port effect added to your start of advance. Next is your end of advance and your spec changes again. You still have the 100 RPM min max, but your timing tolerance now changes to 2.5 degrees for the end of advance. Again you draw your box adding port effect of 0.2 per 100 RPM's. Once you have your timing graphed on paper, engine warmed up. You start recording advance at every 100 RPM's to high idle. Now if your start and end of advance is not on 100 number, lets say start is 1355 RPM's. I get a reading at 1350 RPM's and so on for the end. While engine is warming up, I usually see what ref point is and when timing starts to advance and ends. If you know it has to be adjusted, why waste time doing the full run. First adjustment is ref window, then start window and finally end window. Once your satisfied of your settings now you can do the full run of 100 RPM readings and record your numbers. You go all the way up and then you check it back down. Your making sure on the way down it is not sticking. Once you have all your numbers going up, you put them on the graph paper to see how smooth your advance looks. That is why you DON"T play with the start and advance screws. You have to have this tool to set it or check it. It cost a few $1,000.00's dollars.
Can u change the little pin at the bottom of the hole that the plunger does into? My cylinder 1 pin is gone. Wasn’t sure if maybe i could take off the side cover and replace it
If you mean the pin in the lifter, no you can't. But that pin is only a guide to get the teeth on the plunger to align with the rack properly. Sometimes when you disassemble a pump with stuck plungers and barrels those little pins get damaged. I just carefully grind them off and check my rack during assembly.
If you mean the alignment dowel in the housing about an inch down, I do believe you can change that through the fuel cover. Never have done it but I'm pretty sure they are in the parts book
@@hellscanyondieselpower6537 As I work on truck engines. The alignment dowel has two types that I know of. The early ones (7FB) style pumps, has the dowel and a o-ring. They are simple to install, as they bottom out in the housing. The later pumps, the pin can go all the way thru the housing. As you are well aware on a camshaft lifter failure. Getting the lifter out is the problem. If you force it out the top, you will damage the seat area of the spacer. What I do is, turn the cam and get the lifter up, slide the camshaft out. Take a brass/bronze punch and lightly start tapping the lifter back down. What you are trying to do is force the dowel pin to move out. If you strike the lifter very hard, you will shear off the dowel and damage the housing even more. Once the lifter falls out the bottom, on the solid dowel ones (later). I drive the dowel back in and let it fall out. I then take a hone and hone the damaged bore. Take one of the used lifters and see if it will drop all the way in freely. If the housing looks reusable, I take a one inch impact socket and use a hole for a guide. Grind a flat spot on the socket until it will fit in the bore using the flat spot against the dowel. I then take a extension and and put it on the socket. Using a flat edge laying on the top of the pump housing. I mark the extension with a marker. I then get a new dowel and put bearing mount around it. Put the dowel in and socket until I get it back to the proper depth. Take a lifter and see how it feels. You can use a depth mic if you like and compare it with a non failed bore. Once you are sure everything will work out. I clean the pin bore area on the outside and apply J-B weld in case of any seepage.
I have a question, I can’t get my 3406B to go back down to idle its revving around 800-1,000 rpm’s. I’m wondering if you would have an idea of what the problem may be? The engine did get dropped off the forks onto the ground when it was being moved into position to be placed into the truck and was mounted on the engine stand. It fell about a foot onto the ground didn’t damage anything on the engine but now since it has been mounted into the truck and started it will not idle down. I have an idle spring hook up and no fuel pedal linkage is connected and the Jake switch is backed all the way out so it’s not interfering with the throttle.
Did this just happen or first time you got it running? With the engine is NOT running, and the throttle linkage off, back the low idle/Jake switch screw out. You should see the throttle lever rotate counter clock wise. Turn it in it should rotate clock wise. At any speed the spring force and the flyweight should equal out, thus you have a steady speed. Not talking about pulling a load on or up a hill as RPM's are changing. So if your throttle shaft is moving, something is wrong in your governor. First item I would check is the dash pot on the back. Engine off, you screw it in until it bottoms out. Back it off one and a half turns min to two turns max. On 3406C 8PN engines the dash pot was defective and you had to replace it. I have also seen the wrong governor spring in the pump and one pump I took apart for this reason Somebody took the governor spring and stretched the spring so he could run above full load speed so the engine would not surge. If you r & i the governor, be careful. The flyweights can drop out behind the race. When they do and you start the engine, the flyweight will come out the side off the governor. If you have the updated carrier, it will not do this. Also the race next to the flyweight Cat has three different part numbers. Use the part number off an 8PN. It is larger and helps prevent this. Also your governor guide depth could cause a problem. If I recall his video shows you how to set it. Do it after you replace the tach drive seal. Inside the governor guide is a snap ring. If you replace the tach drive seal. Be careful that you don't knock it out.
This is probably a stupid question but when did diesel fuel pumps switch from engine oil to diesel fuel to lube the cam and lifters. Is it because they can't seal the piston from the crazy high fuel pressure.
All new scroll pumps from cat are oil lubricated cam and lifters. 3300 series and 3400 series. I am not well versed in the older pumps, like off a 92U 3406A
Sleeve Metering fuel systems are fuel lubricated. In the truck world they was used on all 3208 and some 3306's. The early 1693 used a forged body fuel system. Rest of the 1600 series used compact scroll. Most 1693's used compact scroll. The 1100 series used scroll, some 3306's and the 3406 (now called A model, 92U) used compact scroll. Starting with 3406B, 7FB Cat changed to NSFS, New Scroll Fuel System. It lasted until the last truck mechanical or a PEEC fuel system was produced. The NSFS was basically the same, however I would say you had two types. 7FB1 thru end of 7FB's and 4MG1-03599. I give him a B+ on his video.
What would cause fuel to get into oil? I've pulled the valve cover and checked for a leaking fuel line, no issue found. I heard a fuel transfer pump could cause this or possibly a seal at the main injection pump drive. How would I verify?
Most internal fuel leaks on a B or C is due to the internal lines or a nozzle. Common for them to leak at either the bleed screw on the side of the nozzle or where the top part of the nozzle threads to the middle part. Get some fuel dye, pit it in the filter, use a black light with the engine running valve covers off and check the lines from both ends and pay attention to the nozzle retainer. You may see fuel coming up around the line at the nozzle. It can be an injection pump problem but if it hasn't been into recently its not likely
Fuel transfer pump, only seen one and it was a classic part. Fuel pump usually when someone tried to fix a bushing leak and didn't do it right. Most of the time it is a nozzle. With the valve covers off, the nozzle is in a chamber. Should have two holes on the cap. Be careful, put your finger on one side. The other side put some air psi on the open hole. Be careful you don't want a face full of oil. As you check each one, the good holes will push oil out, dark. The leaking nozzle will be clear because it is full of fuel. If it is the nozzle, could be seal on the side. You can replace it. If it is the seal on top, you have to replace the nozzle. Can be a fuel line, the outside connection has a drain hole in the fuel line adapter. The inside line has an oring to try and force a leak to the outside. The nozzle connection you already check it.
So I got the test results in yesterday from the oil sample. My engine oil does indeed have fuel contamination. I will start with the fuel transfer pump, I'm hoping that's what is causing this issue
@@johngoldsmith6629 how did you determine that the fuel transfer pump is leaking? When you removed it did you see obvious fuel coming from the transfer pump?
@@hellscanyondieselpower6537 before posting this comment, I did remove the valve cover and run the engine while visually inspecting the fuel lines. I didn't see any obvious signs of a fuel leak, I will purchase some fuel dye. Do you have any experience with fuel dye and which would be best?
i have same injection pump and unable to start engine, if i give little power for rack than started. after that RPM gradually reduced. what is reason for that ?
Start with the shutdown solenoid if it has one. Remove it and see if will stay running. Sometimes those solenoids click but don't pull in all the way. You will have to manually kill the engine with small shaft above throttle shaft if solenoid is removed. Next try to remove the air fuel control, it doesn't make sense but I have seen one engine that it was adjusted in all the way and the truck would act like it was running out of fuel. Check fuel pressure when it's running and verify it stays around 35 to 45 psi
If you have good fuel pressure and solenoid is not stopping you, then there is probably a problem in the governor either with the flyweights or throttle servo
I chance de fuel control diafragma. Because no power afteher 50 m/h. Bun. Think I did some rong. Star okey But goes off running need you opinion what can be Help thank you
Hello I have a question about the metal o ring under the plunger? Is fuel able to get pasted the metal o ring or does it stop the fuel from getting past the o ring. I was looking in my injection pump and I saw fuel in the bottom. Thanks in advance.
The metal seal I describe in the video under the plunger and barrel assembly is the seal. It is a machined washer and the bottom of the barrel is machined. When you torque down the bonnet nut, which has the pink oring under it, it smashes the barrel into the machines washer making a liquid tight seal to keep fuel out of the camshaft housing. If you have fuel in the oil on a 3406 it's most likely an under valve cover injection line or the nozzle, "injector" , that is leaking fuel into the engine. You can run the engine with the valve covers off to locate the leak. Have done it many times
Thanks for replying back to me I changed the pink o rings on the plungers. That's when I started to see the diesel in the oil. When I took one of the plunger's out I can see diesel on the bottom like by the rack.
If you removed the plunger and barrel it will relax the seal on the bottom and all the fuel in the galley under the large side plate will drain into the pump housing. If the fuel level continues to climb after you run it a while you may have gotten some debris from the nut area down under the steel seal. It is extremely important that all those parts are spotless during assembly
The metal spacer under the pump has two functions. As stated it is a seal. ANYTIME you R and I the pump, you have to center the rack and remove the pump. Most of the fuel in the oil failures are nozzles. However the first question I ask, has somebody fixed a fuel leak on the pump. If they said yes, I ask them which one, as if you don't R and I the pump and just tried slipping a new seal under the bushing you have messed up. The second function of the spacer it sets injection timing. When Cat came out with compact fuel systems and went away from forged body, the timing needed to be set. So you set your pump up and put a degree wheel on TDC 1. Look up what pump you have and the spec will tell you which way to turn the wheel and what degree to stop at. Then you take a two inch block and set in that hole with the existing spacer. Measure down and get your depth reading. If within spec, your OK. If not you look in the parts book on which spacer you need to get within spec. Spacers come in range of 0.004 between each part number. That is why on earlier engines you do not mix the spacers up. If you do, the pump has to come off and do this. You can measure each spacer and replace them once you know the thickness and put it back in the same hole. When Cat released the new scroll fuel system (NSFS), 3406B and up. They was able to get production tolerances within spec. Thus it was no longer needed to degree the fuel camshaft to set injection timing. As production and improvements was made you have two thickness spacers on NSFS. You cannot mix them up. If you do, you will destroy your fuel system. One problem on this NSFS is the bushing not seating the pump in the bore. So Cat has a new bushing and bonnet. Anytime I R and I a pump, I like to lap the barrel, update the bushing and bonnet. However I have to do as the customer wishes. Replacing the pumps is a better choice, but now your talking a lot of money. Plus I do not like to put one new pump in a hole and have five old pumps on a high mileage engine. If you reuse the bushing, it is best to put it back in the same hole as the threads have mated to each other. The spacer or pump does not matter.
Early 3406 B's depends on HP, some had up to a 24 degree fuel system camshaft. 3406 C 8PN's are a unique design. 4MG's, 5KJ's and 3ZJ's Again fuel system timing, VTU, dual helix, single helix, different check valves. Will it bolt up, yes. Will VTU's interchange? Depends on what you have. Will it run? yes, Will it run right? Who knows.
Channel locks works fine. The fuel camshaft is hardened and you won't damage it. You put pumps one and four in first with the lobes down. Then you turn the cam and pin the pump. Now you can put the rest in. Doing one and four first, when you turn the cam, your only working against two lobes with resistance.
On the rear of the governor is a place to mount a cable driven tach. I would not use it. I would get an electric tach and use the flywheel. You might make the tach shaft oil seal to fail sooner.
That was a great video very informative. Thanks. And there are a lot of us use the mechanical shut off. Because the new solenoids are junk. I got the arm from Cat and use a cable shut off end of trouble.
Advancing the timing is possible. It will increase cylinder psi, lower boost and make faster response. The outer cover on the VTU has a big screw and little screw. DO NOT MESS WITH THEM. That is your start and stop of advance. You can only set them with a timing indicator group. First check your pin timing, if the flywheel goes in first your retarded. If they drop about the same time your dead on. If the pump goes in first your advanced. If your retarded you need to re-time your pump. Turn engine until the fuel system pin drops in. Remove the VTU cover and loosen the bolts. Put a seal pick in the hole and turn the engine backwards. When it falls in the hole turn the engine slightly until the engine locks up. Replace the bolts, one at a time. (Have seen old ones break). Now torque the bolts (41 FT LBS) remove the pick and pin. Turn the engine backwards thirty degrees or more and then turn engine back forwards. The pin and bolt should drop in about the same time. If want to advance it, before you torque the bolts. Remove the pick and slightly bump the engine backwards a little more. Again torque bolts and do as above. The pump should drop first, then take your seal pick and feel for the hole and see how far you are advanced. I like mine around half a bolt hole. So on the drivers side the hole will be towards the top of the flywheel housing and solid towards the bottom side of the hole. If your installing the VTU, you have basically two types. Old 7FB style and 4MG03600 and up. Get a long 3/8 bolt and cut the head off. It is your guide to align the VTU. Install guide bolt and slide VTU on over the guide bolt and get a few bolts snug, finger tight. If you have the 4MG03600 and up, 5KJ, 3ZJ, 8PN. You need to push the carrier in and seat it. It will push out installing it and you will be severely retarded, if you don't seat it. Get a large screw driver and get between outer cover and flyweight and push it back towards the engine. You set static timing, (pin) with a bolt in the flywheel. The start and end of advance you have to set dynamically. The spring on the timing is based on engine serial number and HP. You install the timing indicator group, warm the engine up. You go to TMI on the Cat network, (you have to have Cat access) to find your timing information. Again it is based on serial number and HP. If the engine has been rerated, you have to use the performance spec. Once you get your spec, you first check ref timing window. It is usually 1,000 RPM's +/- 30 RPM's with a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now you have you base timing (slot cut in the fuel system camshaft). On NSFS you have 0.2 degrees of port effect for every 100 RPM's. So at ref RPM, (1,000 RPM's) you would add 2.0 degrees of advance for the port effect. So if your static timing on the fuel system camshaft was 24.0 degrees (Example), (0) RPM's it would be 26.0 degrees of advance, at 1,000 RPM's. So you have graph paper, min RPM's would be 970 high to low. Max RPM's would be 1030 RPM's high to low. With max advance at 27.5 degrees and min advance at 24.5 degrees, (Example). If your in tolerance at ref RPM"s the next box is start of advance. Again TMI has start number. You box changes, now you have 100 RPM tolerance and a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now between ref RPM and start, you still have to add your 0.2 degrees of advance per 100 RPM's for port effect added to your start of advance. Next is your end of advance and your spec changes again. You still have the 100 RPM min max, but your timing tolerance now changes to 2.5 degrees for the end of advance. Again you draw your box adding port effect of 0.2 per 100 RPM's. Once you have your timing graphed on paper, engine warmed up. You start recording advance at every 100 RPM's to high idle. Now if your start and end of advance is not on 100 number, lets say start is at 1355 RPM's, (Example). I get a reading at 1350 RPM's and so on for the stop of advance. While engine is warming up, I usually see what ref point is and when timing starts to advance and stop of advance. If you know it has to be adjusted, why waste time doing the full run. First adjustment is ref window, then start window and finally end window. Once your satisfied of your settings now you can do the full run of 100 RPM readings and record your numbers. You go all the way up and then you check it back down. Your making sure on the way down it is not sticking. Once you have all your numbers going up, you put them on the graph paper to see how smooth your advance looks. That is why you DON"T play with the start and advance screws. You have to have this tool to set it or check it. It cost a few $1,000.00's dollars.
Si alguna vez tiene una bomba de inyeccion de un cat 3208 seria la bomba que nos enseñara sobre ella, ya que no conoco ninguna otra bomba en V. Aunque yannmar tiene una en linea y a la vez rotativa.
3208 fuel pumps are sleeve metering. You have to set the cross bar with a special tool. Once that is set, you have to install a dummy pump and set the lever setting. Once that is done, you have to put it on a test bench to see if it will pump out. Also the front cam bearing likes to spin or the camshaft gets a groove from the fuel transfer pump seal. The governor housing has to be reamed and install a check valve to prevent air from entering around the throttle shaft seal. Now you can take it apart and reseal it. However if it has a thrust bearing in the governor and you let it fall out you will destroy your pump. NEVER try to adjust the lever setting or the crossbar with out the special tooling. To get the fuel transfer pump off, you have to pull the sleeve off. It is a one time use. Once it is off that is when the thrust washer can fall out. The thrust washer is located in the rear of the pump. So I made a special tool to keep force on the fuel camshaft forward to prevent the fuel camshaft from moving backwards. If your front bearing has spun, your pump has to be replaced. If your camshaft is worn from the transfer pump seal it has to be replaced. Once you get the one time use sleeve on, you measure end play on the fuel camshaft. If your in spec, OK. If not your taking it all part this time and see what you have broken behind the pump.
Soy bastante prudente en ese aspecto, no las manipuló sin documentación o con asesoramiento de maestros como vosotros. Se me dio el caso en un ripper. Son muy raras aquí en europa. Un saludo y gracias por las aclaraciones.
Very good instruction, I professionally repair injection pumps in Bosch service, but I will repair such a pump for the first time. Could you give me the part numbers for the seals for the pump and speed controller. Thank you.
Part number to rebuild/reseal the pump? Loaded question. As pumps changed, part numbers have changed. Some are been replaced with better part numbers. Some you have to stick with what pump is in front of you. When you go to Cat and look up what pump you have SIS has not been updated (most of the time) to the better part number seal. If you order a fuel system kit, it has lots of parts in it that you may not need. However the kits are usually updated with the better seals. So if you try and look that new part number up for you serial number it won't be in the book. Sometimes you have to look the part up in a truck engine news, special instructions, or a newer serial number. The parts guy at Cat will not know how to do this. As with the seal under the bushing for example, that part number has been changed four times that I know of. So each of these numbers are still in Cat's system because it is just a standard o-ring most of the time. Also some hardware changes in the governor that I like to do. Again, not in the book.
Outstanding video. Probably the most extensive video I've seen on a B model pump.
Would love to see more videos about cat engines! The b model specifically, just bought a 1988 379 Pete looking to keep it around a long time. Videos like this will make that possible. no matter how much money the truck makes or doesn’t make I want to do these kinds of repairs myself. That gives you a true understanding of what’s getting you down the road everyday and makes understanding and diagnosing problems easy.
What is your full engine serial number?
@@johngoldsmith6629 4mg29870 is what I was told. Everything seams to match. That’s what was put in it from factory and I was told it was the same engine. Only thing is I can’t find a plate on the engine itself, so i dont know for sure.
@@micahfreeberg574 The serial number is stamped in the block, it is on the passenger side, number five cylinder. About four to five inches or so below the exhaust. Shows to be in a PB, you can call PB and give them the vin. They can tell you what engine the truck was born with.
Arrangement No: 9Y-2449
Mfg Model: 3406B
Mktg Model Year: 1988
Prod Family: ZI 3406/C15 Engines
Sims Prod Family: 62 Truck Engines
Source Facility: 40 Engine Develop And Mfg 7-18L
Principle Work: D10 Trucks - On-Highway
Build Date: 16Jun1988
Factory Ship Date: Not Applicable
Dealer/Invoiced Ship Date: 27Jun1988
Sales Date: 27Jun1988
Delivery Date: 19Jul1988
Selling Dlr: D99L
Owner Cls: E
317 BRAKE KW (425 BHP) AT 2100 RPM. CARB-CERTIFIED, PETERBILT
Only repair showing at Cat was the governor recall. This engine has a very bad timing advance. Numerous recalls and updates. The carrier likes to slip, so the timing advance will turn slower if it doesn't have the updated carrier. With the cover off the advance see if the flyweights will turn, I use a screw driver and push on the side of the weight. Don't get wild, don't want to break anything. If they do you need to rebuild your VTU, also other updates on the snap ring, races, small lock nut.
The bushings that hold each injection pump down causes the pump not to seat in the bore. Cat has updated the bushing. If you replace the bushings, you have to center the rack and pull the pump out. Be clean, clean and clean. If your not you will get dirt, etc in the sealing area and put fuel in the oil.
The governor tach drive seal likes to leak oil. Video shows on governor guide depth, when you replace the seal. Have to be careful, with the outer housing off. A flyweight can drop out and when you start the engine. The flyweight will come out the side of the inner housing. I use the flyweight race off a 8PN, has a larger OD. Also the flyweight carrier has been update with stops to prevent this, if something fails.
Fuel injection lines, has to have clamps and brackets to secure the lines. I like to use the set up on an 8PN 3406 C. However I do mine a little different then the book.
Adept Ape has two videos on this engine, one on the engine, other one is pulling a nozzle out, watch them.
Fuel Ratio Control (FRC), diaphragm likes to blow sometimes. The housing gets a sharp edge and will cut it. I put a beveled edge on it (part that it rest on). Some people just put a plate on the back. Have to be careful, as black smoke will roll out the exhaust.
Jacobs Brake, should have a three point stand. If I recall you can buy some more parts and make it a little stronger. Head bolts will have to come out. So you have to pull a valve cover and see on the exhaust side if you have one stand or two.
Really loved watching this! Will probably never rebuild a fuel pump for a CAT engine, but it sure was satisfying to watch! A clean build in a clean shop and everything done properly! Maybe not according to all of CAT's guidelines, but what matters is that the end result is up to par. Love it it when people take their time to go through each step carefully and also take the time to educate you in the process. I think you demonstrated very good workshop practice and would love to do something similar in a similarly well organized shop! Thank you for all the time and effort you put into making this!
This is the very best video that I have ever seen on a Cat fuel pump. I think that you could build that pump in your sleep. Anyone with a manual
cat engine should watch this video.
Gotta be almost 30 years since I rebuilt a 3406b pump. Did a few earlier drive shaft driven 3406 pumps. Also done a few 3208 pumps. The throttle shafts would wear out quickly. I still have the bonnet wrenches for the inside spline and the outside spline bonnets. Thank you for bringing back memories.
I've got to say thank you for making this video. It gave me the knowledge and the confidence to rebuild my pump in my 84 peterbilt 359. I had already done barrels and plungers in the past but was always squeamish to mess with the governor. With the help of your video and the Cat manual I completely rebuilt the governor with all upgraded parts. Mine were old style and worn out. I now have piece of mind it isn't coming apart on the road. Saved some coin and have a sense of pride I did it myself. Thanks again.
Very happy I could help. Hope everything went well and it was a total success!
Your races against the flyweights was best to use one out of a 8PN, larger OD. Flyweights updated, bolts that hold carrier on updated, I put spacers out of a PEEC VTU to help center the FRC lever. Bushings that hold the pumps in are updated. Seals behind the pump and mounting seals updated. List goes on that is not in the parts book.
Excellent video of the injection pump. I have a 3406c that I’m having a low power issue with. Im looking for some information on how to trouble shoot it would you be able to help me out?
@@johnhodle5898 Full engine serial number.
I’ve had a B model for 30 years tinkered with it never really understood it Thank You very much 👍
Excellent Video, I watched a cat guy demonstrate everything not to do when reassembling one of these and it instantly started putting 1 gallon of fuel per 100mi in the oil . It had dirt under the timing Spacers on two of them. I bought the manual for these and studied it and went to work resealing 10 of them for a guy. When reusing the barrel and plungers with new bonnets and lapped barrel to bonnet surface torqthe holdown bushing to 220 ft lbs with used barrel and plungers only. New ones can score from the tighter bores from the way they tend to deflect from the higher torque. Perfect video. I've heard a lot of guys that were half right and half misinformed but you've definitely spent as much or more time than me studieng the book at some point In your life. Never you should do one on the timing advance and how to properly setting it and using the cat 8T5300 Timing meter! Absolutely the only way you can set the timing and see it in real time advance when and how much its suppose too which is not possible to do without having a meter. Many tricks to that I learned over the years too.
If your bushings are not the new style your wasting your time lapping the barrel. I would not go to 220 on torque, can crack the housing.
@@johngoldsmith6629 the 220 spec was in a TSB from cat.. also showed the chemical cleaning process that cleans the staining from the top of the barrel where the bonnets seal. I've used the 220 spec for years with no issues. Like when the oring that seals the bonnet starts leaking I just replace the oring a torque to 220 and the drivers almost always tell me it runs smoother after. (Missed before slightly)
@@lawrencebrown3288 Sounds high to me
@@johngoldsmith6629 not sure if I mentioned that this is only recommended with used barrel and plunger with either a lapped original or a new style one...if you torque a new barrel and plunger assembly to 220 it will score it and destroy it. I probably never mentioned that part. I'll find the TSB and post it.
@@lawrencebrown3288 I found it, I knew the increased torque on uses P & B's but the one I read years ago was only 10ft lbs. Thanks for the update.
Awesome video! Really helped me understand everything I've read and gave me the confidence to open up my pump.
Glad to hear it. Good luck with your pump
We need more videos . I really enjoyed watching this , it’s very educational and gives me more insight on my b model
A good lesson and a good professor... We benefited a lot from him... Thank you very much
Heard Adept Ape mention your name. Had to check out your vid. I used to have a 3406B. Rebuilt entire engine over 4yrs before I sold it. I like these older engines! Great job
Thank you
This was a really AWESOME vid! Very well done! I drive a 6NZ but my wife has a B model in her buggy. This vid was a fantastic how to combined with the how it works! It’s pretty obvious you’ve done a few of these motors based on your handy little self checks and tricks. I’m really looking forward to your next vid. Hopefully it addresses the right side of the engine’s external lubrication system aka the oil cooler/filter assembly!
Thanks a million!
Thank you, and we do have another b model build coming up with brakesaver. Hopefully we will have time to film that one
Great video of showing telling about pump for the fuel,cause I need to know about that I got a cat 3406b. Might have to work on my pump right right thanks again for showing telling how to do it do it fixing that pump. Great job well see ya next time see ya bye.
Great work!!!!! I own a 3406 and a 3306. Learned a lot. Thank you!!
Absolutely an outstanding job of explaining the B model pump assembly. I have a 1991 model and have a greater understanding of how it works. Thanks Kc
Thank you
You gave a very good presentation of assembling this injection pump, hope the notes below help you in future builds!
looking to buy a international 9370 with a 3406b. Can’t wait to get it and start working on the old kitty
Awesome video! Thanks 🙏 for sharing!
Nice! Great accomplishment here, explained really well. Even for those like me who just want to know how these B model pumps work.
Thank you!
Your welcome!
This is invaluable information!!!!
Excellent you warmed Adept Ape at CAT Stealership about 3406 bridges.
I put in my data .
Thanks 👍
Thanks so much for this awesome video!! I wish I had half of the knowledge you have for these pumps!! We sure could use you around here!! Thanks again, and keep up the excellent work and diligence!!!
Thank you very much, it is true that in the CAT catalog it is not easy to find the right parts. Thanks again for your reply. Greetings.
Awesome video, I really enjoyed.
A trick, take a white marker and mark the center of the rack teeth group for every barrel and plunger, so when you look down the bore you can verify the rack is centered when you put barrel and plunger in! Also made a tool that keeps spring pressure on the timing pin to also keep it tight against the pin! Cat has a 6V7050 3406 Compressor Group Tool that helps push down on the barrel and plunger that makes it easier to get the nut start with no load on the threads, works real well! Took a old nut and the top of an old barrel and plunger the threaded part brazed them together, did cut part of the threaded part back so nut threads were clear to engage injection pump! Used it to help get the first barrel and plunger started, then can use the 6v7050 to finish the rest!
Once in how do you check and verify gear on pump is timed correctly to rack?
I just use the pin as the guide that is outlined in the T.E.N. article and or the service manual that shows you how to do it..
@@johngoldsmith6629 You know that cat goes to the dealers and asks questions of mechanics on what they have done to make it easier, well I have given them many a tool design I have made and they have taken it back and made them under a Cat number! So if you do not like the idea do not use it, it was only a hint of doing it easier, do as you please! During the retro fitting of newer engines in machines cat sent out engineers to see how our shop did what we did to make things fit, and made whole articles of how we did it, so your saying do not lesson to new ideas that make it easier, Okay! Oh, over 47 years as a engine mechanic, just saying!
@@oldcatmech I have never been approached by Cat. I did show somebody from Cat a tool I made and Cat patented later.
Es usted un Maestro. He conocido su canal gracias a Adep-Ape, cuando ha armado el regulador se me ha cortocircuitado el cerebro, lo he tenido que ver varias veces.
Thank you very much
Absolutely Nailed it haven’t seen anybody else do this loved it couldn’t stop watching 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you
Excellent video, your knowledge of these pumps is very impressive. would love to see more videos including timing ect. good work
Excellent instructional video, THANK YOU! If you could , please make one for setting the truck front timing advance on these pumps and timing the pumps properly.
You set static timing, (pin) with a bolt in the flywheel. The start and end of advance you have to set dynamically. The spring on the timing is based on engine serial number and HP. You install the timing indicator group, warm the engine up. You go to TMI on the Cat network, (you have to have Cat access) to find your timing information. Again it is based on serial number and HP. If the engine has been rerated, you have to use the performance spec. Once you get your spec, you first check ref timing window. It is usually 1,000 RPM's +/- 30 RPM's with a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now you have you base timing (slot cut in the fuel system camshaft). On NSFS you have 0.2 degrees of port effect for every 100 RPM's. So at ref RPM, (1,000 RPM's) you would add 2.0 degrees of advance for the port effect. So if your static timing on the fuel system camshaft was 24.0 degrees, (0) RPM's it would be 26.0 degrees of advance, at 1,000 RPM's. So you have graph paper, min RPM's would be 970 high to low. Max RPM's would be 1030 RPM's high to low. With max advance at 27.5 degrees and min advance at 24.5 degrees. If your in tolerance at ref RPM"s the next box is start of advance. Again TMI has start number. You box changes, now you have 100 RPM tolerance and a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now between ref RPM and start, you still have to add your 0.2 degrees of advance per 100 RPM's for port effect added to your start of advance. Next is your end of advance and your spec changes again. You still have the 100 RPM min max, but your timing tolerance now changes to 2.5 degrees for the end of advance. Again you draw your box adding port effect of 0.2 per 100 RPM's, plus you add the degrees of advance. Once you have your timing graphed on paper, engine warmed up. You start recording advance at every 100 RPM's to high idle. Now if your start and end of advance is not on 100 number, lets say start is 1355 RPM's. I get a reading at 1350 RPM's and so on for the end. While engine is warming up, I usually see what ref point is and when timing starts to advance and ends. If you know it has to be adjusted, why waste time doing the full run. First adjustment is ref window, then start window and finally end window. Once your satisfied of your settings now you can do the full run of 100 RPM readings and record your numbers. You go all the way up and then you check it back down. Your making sure on the way down it is not sticking. Once you have all your numbers going up, you put them on the graph paper to see how smooth your advance looks. That is why you DON"T play with the start and advance screws. You have to have this tool to set it or check it. It cost a few $1,000.00's dollars.
Thank you John goldsmith for the deep dive into setting the timing advance. I do not own the cat tool for setting the advance. I have always been fortunate in rebuilding advances that have not been messed with from factory settings. You obviously have done lots of these. If you ever want to sell the tooling and loan some knowledge I would be very interested. Thank you for the informative response
@@hellscanyondieselpower6537 Work for a Cat dealer, so I do not own the tool. But knowledge I do have. 92U engines was still being made when I hired in. The problem on VTU, numerous updates and design changes. I only do truck engines. So if the start and stop screws get messed with or a failure occurs that causes the screws to be damaged. You have to have this tool group.
3406's now called A models used a slide advance, no adjustment other then pin timing. Port effect on it is 0.1 per 100 RPM's. I always replaced the springs if I have one in the shop and advance is off. 3406 B VTU had a slipping problem. 7FB's and 4MG's 1-03599 has no fix. You can weld them between the snap ring, but the core is no good. Also on the later 7FB's Cat put a plastic screen in front of the fuel system camshaft. Always replace it, as it can melt.
Just inframed a 92U. I thought they were almost extinct, but there are still a few out there.
@@hellscanyondieselpower6537 What HP? Wrong head on a DITA can crack on top at number five cylinder.
Everything is excellent,except what am confused is for number 5 pump why the rack is pushed to the front of the pump housing?
Excelent, thanks, How assembly fuel injection pump 3412?
Appreciate the walk through and knowledge
Glad I could help
Excellent Job.. Hope. You do more on cat 3406 b/c
Sir you is a good teacher I really learn something I have 2 3406C that I really love. Where in America or you I live in the Caribbean.thanks
Great video, do you have the part number for little filter on the AFR assembly? Your right about helcoil threads for those 2 bolts are shot and it let loose today on me.
8N6680, 2D6392 seal, just put a plate on it.
I had to change one of my o ring on my 3406b because it was leaking so I decided to change all six. All of them was easy to change except one. The plunger popped up on me. Now I'm getting fuel in my oil. My question is should I go back and clean the metal washer under the plunger that popped up or should I go and clean all of them? I need had a problem until this one plunger popped up. Thanks in advance.
Always remove the pump and be clean. Now you don't know which spacer has trash under it. Keep the bushing in the hole it came out of. If the bushings are the old style it is best to update them. Depending on serial number you have two spacers. Do not get the wrong one. I would replace all the spacers, as they could be damaged. Also clean the housing and the bottom of the pump. Ask your dealer for Truck Engine News article 1985/11/01, Check Fuel Injection Replacement Pump Installation (SEBD6553-00). It shows you how to check timing after each pump is reinstalled. Four pumps will come out, two the cam lobe will be up so you will have to turn the engine to put them in. Remove the shut off, gasket part number 6I2002. Pump seal 1313719 pink, felt washer 8H9204, air compressor gasket 1293948. You will have to center the rack to R and I all the pumps. Make sure the rack is free before you torque the bushing. Make sure it is free after you torque each bushing. Have the intake off with something you can shut the air off. If the rack locks up, you will be out of the trucking business in thirty seconds.
you Guyz should do some more vids
its most entertaining and informative🥂
THANKS stacks‼️
🪖
Any video on how to set the degree *on the pumps.
Excellent video I would also like to know how to set the spring and screw on the timing advance. Also one on timing the engine I have one that sounds like it’s running cold I resealed the advance and it did help but I think it’s still not correct
You set static timing, (pin) with a bolt in the flywheel. The start and end of advance you have to set dynamically. The spring on the timing is based on engine serial number and HP. You install the timing indicator group, warm the engine up. You go to TMI on the Cat network, (you have to have Cat access) to find your timing information. Again it is based on serial number and HP. If the engine has been rerated, you have to use the performance spec. Once you get your spec, you first check ref timing window. It is usually 1,000 RPM's +/- 30 RPM's with a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now you have you base timing (slot cut in the fuel system camshaft). On NSFS you have 0.2 degrees of port effect for every 100 RPM's. So at ref RPM, (1,000 RPM's) you would add 2.0 degrees of advance for the port effect. So if your static timing on the fuel system camshaft was 24.0 degrees, (0) RPM's it would be 26.0 degrees of advance, at 1,000 RPM's. So you have graph paper, min RPM's would be 970 high to low. Max RPM's would be 1030 RPM's high to low. With max advance at 27.5 degrees and min advance at 24.5 degrees. If your in tolerance at ref RPM"s the next box is start of advance. Again TMI has start number. You box changes, now you have 100 RPM tolerance and a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now between ref RPM and start, you still have to add your 0.2 degrees of advance per 100 RPM's for port effect added to your start of advance. Next is your end of advance and your spec changes again. You still have the 100 RPM min max, but your timing tolerance now changes to 2.5 degrees for the end of advance. Again you draw your box adding port effect of 0.2 per 100 RPM's. Once you have your timing graphed on paper, engine warmed up. You start recording advance at every 100 RPM's to high idle. Now if your start and end of advance is not on 100 number, lets say start is 1355 RPM's. I get a reading at 1350 RPM's and so on for the end. While engine is warming up, I usually see what ref point is and when timing starts to advance and ends. If you know it has to be adjusted, why waste time doing the full run. First adjustment is ref window, then start window and finally end window. Once your satisfied of your settings now you can do the full run of 100 RPM readings and record your numbers. You go all the way up and then you check it back down. Your making sure on the way down it is not sticking. Once you have all your numbers going up, you put them on the graph paper to see how smooth your advance looks. That is why you DON"T play with the start and advance screws. You have to have this tool to set it or check it. It cost a few $1,000.00's dollars.
Very good instruction, I professionally repair injection pumps in Bosch service, but I will repair such a pump for the first time. Could you give me the part numbers for the seals for the pump and speed controller. Thank you.
Great video would love to see a disassembly video
Have another engine coming up, try to get the disassembly on that one.
That is easy, I can take one apart in 15 minutes if no rusty bushings.
Immensely informative, thank you very much
This guy is so good!!!
Merry Christmas, looking forward to some new post next year!
awesome video
Thank you so much for this video... I had a barrel plunger go out in the middle of nowhere and this video help me drop in a new one.. Can you do a timing video next lol
Couple types of timing advance. The older ones 7FB are the same. 4MG03600 and up to 8PN are basically the same, but they are slightly different. Number of bolts, spool valve, races and such.
Thanks for great lesson we’re is shop located
Gracias Mister brother muy interesante
How do you check for fuel to oil dilution on the pumps?
loved the video helped alot, if you could, a video demonstrating how to reset the fuel/air screws back to "factory" would be much appreciated, i know how to turn it it up but i bought my truck already turned up gonna be rebuilding the pum soon and a base line starting point to set it at for break in period would reallly help!
Setting the rack, (FLS/FTS) back to factory setting. Requires the tooling from Cat. Also if you do not have the data plate you will have to call Cat with the engine serial number and they will have to access TMI. To set the Air Fuel Ratio setting, you still need the same tool group. You have the lever setting and when that is done. Next step is to setting the dynamic setting with the engine running. So you leave the dial indicator on the pump, start the engine. Cock the AFRC valve, rev the engine up wide open, real fast and read you dial indicator. It will not stay at that spot very long. Or you can purchase a electronic indicator along with the tooling to set the rack. Then as before on revving it up, you press the max function on the electronic indicator and see what it reads. Should not be to much over 5K, I would think for the tool group.
Or you can do what I like to do. Remove the back cover off the FRC. Start the engine and push in on the valve to cock it. Rev the engine up to full throttle real fast and watch your smoke. Make an adjustment until your happy with acceleration vs black smoke. To set the set point or bumping the governor, you need the set point indicator along with the multitach tool group. Hook it all up and hit a hill and see what RPM set point is at full throttle. Set point is 20 RPM above full load speed, plus minus 10 RPM's. Then if you want to verify your timing is working properly, you can purchase the timing indicator group. Again you will need spec from Cat. All together I think around 10k should cover the price of the special tooling.
And a chassis dyno helps getting the set point setting correct. Plus if you hook up the fuel metering device, you can see how many GPH your burning and adjust the rack to compensate for any wear. On a worn pump your allowed .5 MM above spec. Remember HP equal Gallons Per Hour times Fuel Density divided by Brake Specific Fuel Consumption. Hope this helps.
Pretty good explanation nicely explained some repeat but we all do that 😅 thanks for the advice and video. As long as you put out more vids I’ll subscribe.
lf you take the valve part of that piston and valve of the servo assembly and braze a washer to it, then put a spring between it and the injection pump, hook the valve on then end of the rack it will keep the rack pulled up against the timing pin so when put the barrel and plungers in it is a lot easier!
A lot of work that is not needed. Been building these for almost 43 years, never had to do this.
Hello, My 3406B engine had a starting problem, and I found diesel flowing through the outlet/ special fitting to the diesel tank during the hand priming and cranking. What is wrong with this issue. Appreciate for your help.
Are you talking about the fitting on top of the main pump? Usually a number four line, could be a 6 or 8.
If rebuilding a truck pump, is it ever recommended to have it ran on a bench test to calibrate? Or is there not much calibration on these like Bosch pumps?
Not on a 3406 B or C with new pumps. The spacer/seal has no adjustment. Early scroll Cat pumps you had to use a degree wheel and measure injection timing (off the engine). Then pick the correct spacer/seal. Only adjustment would be the fuel settings, FRC lever and dynamic FRC setting. Then on the engine you would adjust set point. Now on sleeve metering fuel pumps, yes it needs to be bench tested. As the cross over rack (3208) and each lever has to be set.
Now on the timing advance, you can set static timing (pin), but if you play with the start and stop screws. You have to set it dynamically with a timing indicator group. Read my comments below on dynamic timing.
@@johngoldsmith6629so the frc wouldn’t need any adjustment? Or if so, is that done on the engine? Sorry if your other comment talks about that. I’m not seeing it
@@BronsonA14 You have two adjustments on a 3406B & C engine. Most truck drivers dislike the FRC. If you are going to take it off. Order a cover where the FRC goes. Don't cut the valve off and destroy a high dollar part. The FRC, Air Fuel Ratio Control Valve, limits fuel until turbo psi builds up to prevent excess black smoke. The lever setting has to be done with a dial indicator. Once that is done, you leave the dial indicator on the engine. Start the engine and with the cover off the back of the FRC, press in on the valve to cock the FRC. Then you throttle the engine wide open very fast and read the dial indicator. It will hold it at the setting just for a moment. So you have to do it several times to see the setting. It could be negative or positive on the dial indicator.
The way I do it, is with out the dial indicator. Same as before, with the cover off and engine running. Press in on the valve and cock it. Throttle wide open very fast and look at your exhaust. Turn the screw in for faster response and more black smoke. Turn it out for slower response and less black smoke. Remember black smoke is unburned fuel and money out of the pocket. Find the setting that you like. If you have a flat bed, no worry on more black smoke. If not your going to soot up your trailer. The FRC has changed slightly over the years, most people when the rebuild it. Don't change the internal seal. You have to take the jam nut off and take the screw out. The old part number is still in the book. The new part number is 3E6760, last longer. Also the part that the diaphragm sets on bottoms out against the retainer. It can cause a sharp edge and will cut the diaphragm. So I bevel the edge down to prevent this.;
One of the main items on a Cat mechanical engine, is throttle travel. If it's to long you won't get full power. If to short, the throttle can wear out the governor housing and seal faster. As the cab can flex loading up the linkage. So on the throttle linkage on the governor, it has two pieces. You should feel the throttle linkage come to a stop, and when you press it more. The lever will deflect back, but the throttle in the governor will not move. This is called break over, and on the side you can see a slot in the lever lift off the inner part. You would like it about half way in the slot. If you move the linkage from the top slot to the lower slot you get more travel. So you have to see where your travel is, and make adjustments as needed. Loosen jam nut and turn end piece in or move linkage up or down. Now if you remove the bolt with the 3/8 head and turn the lever, that will adjust the pedal height. So you what to set it where you foot is not in an awkward position and at the end of the day your leg is not worn out.
Cool video 👍👍
I'm working on my 3406c I timed the rack to center of the lifter. I Dropped the plungers in and now I have a small miss now. It sputters when I hit the throttle now. I'm a diy guy just trying to get it back going. Btw the pump is still on the truck. Thanks for any help.
You should be able to Crack lines loose at the pump one at a time to see if the miss gets worse or stays the same. The one you Crack and it stays the same is the one that is probably out of time. If you install pumps injection pump on the truck you can still look through the front window and check rack travel after each install. But you should start by checking the travel before you mess with the pump. Also remove the shutdown solenoid when your changing the pumps. It frees up the rack
@@hellscanyondieselpower6537 A few times I have had a problem getting the pump back in time. What I have learned is take the pump apart and turn the darn spring over. For some reason the coils will pull it off center enough and prevent the pump from going back in and timed correctly.
Very good video very educational wood you please do one on the timing advance on this model thanks
When I get a chance to I will do an advance. There are many versions though
I have the p 1925 model thank you
You set static timing, (pin) with a bolt in the flywheel. The start and end of advance you have to set dynamically. The spring on the timing is based on engine serial number and HP. You install the timing indicator group, warm the engine up. You go to TMI on the Cat network, (you have to have Cat access) to find your timing information. Again it is based on serial number and HP. If the engine has been rerated, you have to use the performance spec. Once you get your spec, you first check ref timing window. It is usually 1,000 RPM's +/- 30 RPM's with a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now you have your base timing (slot cut in the fuel system camshaft). On NSFS you have 0.2 degrees of port effect for every 100 RPM's. So at ref RPM, (1,000 RPM's) you would add 2.0 degrees of advance for the port effect. So if you static timing on the fuel system camshaft was 24.0 degrees, (0) RPM's it would be 26.0 degrees of advance, at 1,000 RPM's. So you have graph paper, min RPM's would be 970 high to low. Max RPM's would be 1030 RPM's high to low. With max advance at 27.5 degrees and min advance at 24.5 degrees. If your in tolerance at ref RPM"s the next box is start of advance. Again TMI has start number. You box changes, now you have 100 RPM tolerance and a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now between ref RPM and start, you still have to add your 0.2 degrees of advance per 100 RPM's for port effect added to your start of advance. Next is your end of advance and your spec changes again. You still have the 100 RPM min max, but your timing tolerance now changes to 2.5 degrees for the end of advance. Again you draw your box adding port effect of 0.2 per 100 RPM's. Once you have your timing graphed on paper, engine warmed up. You start recording advance at every 100 RPM's to high idle. Now if your start and end of advance is not on 100 number, lets say start is 1355 RPM's. I get a reading at 1350 RPM's and so on for the end. While engine is warming up, I usually see what ref point is and when timing starts to advance and ends. If you know it has to be adjusted, why waste time doing the full run. First adjustment is ref window, then start window and finally end window. Once your satisfied of your settings now you can do the full run of 100 RPM readings and record your numbers. You go all the way up and then you check it back down. Your making sure on the way down it is not sticking. Once you have all your numbers going up, you put them on the graph paper to see how smooth your advance looks. That is why you DON"T play with the start and advance screws. You have to have this tool to set it or check it. It cost a few $1,000.00's dollars.
This is very informative mate, job well done. are you working in caterpillar also?
No, I don't work for caterpillar
Can u change the little pin at the bottom of the hole that the plunger does into? My cylinder 1 pin is gone. Wasn’t sure if maybe i could take off the side cover and replace it
If you mean the pin in the lifter, no you can't. But that pin is only a guide to get the teeth on the plunger to align with the rack properly. Sometimes when you disassemble a pump with stuck plungers and barrels those little pins get damaged. I just carefully grind them off and check my rack during assembly.
If you mean the alignment dowel in the housing about an inch down, I do believe you can change that through the fuel cover. Never have done it but I'm pretty sure they are in the parts book
@@hellscanyondieselpower6537 As I work on truck engines. The alignment dowel has two types that I know of. The early ones (7FB) style pumps, has the dowel and a o-ring. They are simple to install, as they bottom out in the housing. The later pumps, the pin can go all the way thru the housing. As you are well aware on a camshaft lifter failure. Getting the lifter out is the problem. If you force it out the top, you will damage the seat area of the spacer. What I do is, turn the cam and get the lifter up, slide the camshaft out. Take a brass/bronze punch and lightly start tapping the lifter back down. What you are trying to do is force the dowel pin to move out. If you strike the lifter very hard, you will shear off the dowel and damage the housing even more. Once the lifter falls out the bottom, on the solid dowel ones (later). I drive the dowel back in and let it fall out. I then take a hone and hone the damaged bore. Take one of the used lifters and see if it will drop all the way in freely. If the housing looks reusable, I take a one inch impact socket and use a hole for a guide. Grind a flat spot on the socket until it will fit in the bore using the flat spot against the dowel. I then take a extension and and put it on the socket. Using a flat edge laying on the top of the pump housing. I mark the extension with a marker. I then get a new dowel and put bearing mount around it. Put the dowel in and socket until I get it back to the proper depth. Take a lifter and see how it feels. You can use a depth mic if you like and compare it with a non failed bore. Once you are sure everything will work out. I clean the pin bore area on the outside and apply J-B weld in case of any seepage.
That was a really good video. I feel like I can do one very competently.
Looking forward to your next project.
Thank you very much
I have a question, I can’t get my 3406B to go back down to idle its revving around 800-1,000 rpm’s. I’m wondering if you would have an idea of what the problem may be? The engine did get dropped off the forks onto the ground when it was being moved into position to be placed into the truck and was mounted on the engine stand. It fell about a foot onto the ground didn’t damage anything on the engine but now since it has been mounted into the truck and started it will not idle down. I have an idle spring hook up and no fuel pedal linkage is connected and the Jake switch is backed all the way out so it’s not interfering with the throttle.
Did this just happen or first time you got it running?
With the engine is NOT running, and the throttle linkage off, back the low idle/Jake switch screw out. You should see the throttle lever rotate counter clock wise. Turn it in it should rotate clock wise. At any speed the spring force and the flyweight should equal out, thus you have a steady speed. Not talking about pulling a load on or up a hill as RPM's are changing. So if your throttle shaft is moving, something is wrong in your governor. First item I would check is the dash pot on the back. Engine off, you screw it in until it bottoms out. Back it off one and a half turns min to two turns max. On 3406C 8PN engines the dash pot was defective and you had to replace it. I have also seen the wrong governor spring in the pump and one pump I took apart for this reason Somebody took the governor spring and stretched the spring so he could run above full load speed so the engine would not surge. If you r & i the governor, be careful. The flyweights can drop out behind the race. When they do and you start the engine, the flyweight will come out the side off the governor. If you have the updated carrier, it will not do this. Also the race next to the flyweight Cat has three different part numbers. Use the part number off an 8PN. It is larger and helps prevent this. Also your governor guide depth could cause a problem. If I recall his video shows you how to set it. Do it after you replace the tach drive seal. Inside the governor guide is a snap ring. If you replace the tach drive seal. Be careful that you don't knock it out.
This is probably a stupid question but when did diesel fuel pumps switch from engine oil to diesel fuel to lube the cam and lifters. Is it because they can't seal the piston from the crazy high fuel pressure.
All new scroll pumps from cat are oil lubricated cam and lifters. 3300 series and 3400 series. I am not well versed in the older pumps, like off a 92U 3406A
Sleeve Metering fuel systems are fuel lubricated. In the truck world they was used on all 3208 and some 3306's.
The early 1693 used a forged body fuel system. Rest of the 1600 series used compact scroll. Most 1693's used compact scroll. The 1100 series used scroll, some 3306's and the 3406 (now called A model, 92U) used compact scroll.
Starting with 3406B, 7FB Cat changed to NSFS, New Scroll Fuel System. It lasted until the last truck mechanical or a PEEC fuel system was produced. The NSFS was basically the same, however I would say you had two types. 7FB1 thru end of 7FB's and 4MG1-03599. I give him a B+ on his video.
Thankyou for the video
What would cause fuel to get into oil? I've pulled the valve cover and checked for a leaking fuel line, no issue found. I heard a fuel transfer pump could cause this or possibly a seal at the main injection pump drive. How would I verify?
Most internal fuel leaks on a B or C is due to the internal lines or a nozzle. Common for them to leak at either the bleed screw on the side of the nozzle or where the top part of the nozzle threads to the middle part. Get some fuel dye, pit it in the filter, use a black light with the engine running valve covers off and check the lines from both ends and pay attention to the nozzle retainer. You may see fuel coming up around the line at the nozzle. It can be an injection pump problem but if it hasn't been into recently its not likely
Fuel transfer pump, only seen one and it was a classic part. Fuel pump usually when someone tried to fix a bushing leak and didn't do it right. Most of the time it is a nozzle. With the valve covers off, the nozzle is in a chamber. Should have two holes on the cap. Be careful, put your finger on one side. The other side put some air psi on the open hole. Be careful you don't want a face full of oil. As you check each one, the good holes will push oil out, dark. The leaking nozzle will be clear because it is full of fuel. If it is the nozzle, could be seal on the side. You can replace it. If it is the seal on top, you have to replace the nozzle. Can be a fuel line, the outside connection has a drain hole in the fuel line adapter. The inside line has an oring to try and force a leak to the outside. The nozzle connection you already check it.
So I got the test results in yesterday from the oil sample. My engine oil does indeed have fuel contamination. I will start with the fuel transfer pump, I'm hoping that's what is causing this issue
@@johngoldsmith6629 how did you determine that the fuel transfer pump is leaking? When you removed it did you see obvious fuel coming from the transfer pump?
@@hellscanyondieselpower6537 before posting this comment, I did remove the valve cover and run the engine while visually inspecting the fuel lines. I didn't see any obvious signs of a fuel leak, I will purchase some fuel dye. Do you have any experience with fuel dye and which would be best?
Good job 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hope to see many more videos
really it was helpful for me, thanks.
Glad it helped
What static timing does this loader run? 23-26 degree range?
good vid! super intresting. anyone knowing if this is semi same as the 3204 pump? like the timing method?
i have same injection pump and unable to start engine, if i give little power for rack than started. after that RPM gradually reduced. what is reason for that
?
Start with the shutdown solenoid if it has one. Remove it and see if will stay running. Sometimes those solenoids click but don't pull in all the way. You will have to manually kill the engine with small shaft above throttle shaft if solenoid is removed. Next try to remove the air fuel control, it doesn't make sense but I have seen one engine that it was adjusted in all the way and the truck would act like it was running out of fuel. Check fuel pressure when it's running and verify it stays around 35 to 45 psi
If you have good fuel pressure and solenoid is not stopping you, then there is probably a problem in the governor either with the flyweights or throttle servo
I chance de fuel control diafragma. Because no power afteher 50 m/h. Bun. Think I did some rong. Star okey But goes off running need you opinion what can be Help thank you
What aftermarket brand plungers are u running? I need to buy 6 new ones but cat is priced high. What’s out there for quality aftermarket?
Cat offers REMAN, but they are still new parts.
Disa plungers and barrels. Have had great luck with them
Hello I have a question about the metal o ring under the plunger? Is fuel able to get pasted the metal o ring or does it stop the fuel from getting past the o ring. I was looking in my injection pump and I saw fuel in the bottom. Thanks in advance.
The metal seal I describe in the video under the plunger and barrel assembly is the seal. It is a machined washer and the bottom of the barrel is machined. When you torque down the bonnet nut, which has the pink oring under it, it smashes the barrel into the machines washer making a liquid tight seal to keep fuel out of the camshaft housing. If you have fuel in the oil on a 3406 it's most likely an under valve cover injection line or the nozzle, "injector" , that is leaking fuel into the engine. You can run the engine with the valve covers off to locate the leak. Have done it many times
Thanks for replying back to me I changed the pink o rings on the plungers. That's when I started to see the diesel in the oil. When I took one of the plunger's out I can see diesel on the bottom like by the rack.
One more thing when I torque down the bonnets it's 190 ft pounds right?
If you removed the plunger and barrel it will relax the seal on the bottom and all the fuel in the galley under the large side plate will drain into the pump housing. If the fuel level continues to climb after you run it a while you may have gotten some debris from the nut area down under the steel seal. It is extremely important that all those parts are spotless during assembly
The metal spacer under the pump has two functions. As stated it is a seal. ANYTIME you R and I the pump, you have to center the rack and remove the pump. Most of the fuel in the oil failures are nozzles. However the first question I ask, has somebody fixed a fuel leak on the pump. If they said yes, I ask them which one, as if you don't R and I the pump and just tried slipping a new seal under the bushing you have messed up. The second function of the spacer it sets injection timing. When Cat came out with compact fuel systems and went away from forged body, the timing needed to be set. So you set your pump up and put a degree wheel on TDC 1. Look up what pump you have and the spec will tell you which way to turn the wheel and what degree to stop at. Then you take a two inch block and set in that hole with the existing spacer. Measure down and get your depth reading. If within spec, your OK. If not you look in the parts book on which spacer you need to get within spec. Spacers come in range of 0.004 between each part number. That is why on earlier engines you do not mix the spacers up. If you do, the pump has to come off and do this. You can measure each spacer and replace them once you know the thickness and put it back in the same hole. When Cat released the new scroll fuel system (NSFS), 3406B and up. They was able to get production tolerances within spec. Thus it was no longer needed to degree the fuel camshaft to set injection timing. As production and improvements was made you have two thickness spacers on NSFS. You cannot mix them up. If you do, you will destroy your fuel system.
One problem on this NSFS is the bushing not seating the pump in the bore. So Cat has a new bushing and bonnet. Anytime I R and I a pump, I like to lap the barrel, update the bushing and bonnet. However I have to do as the customer wishes. Replacing the pumps is a better choice, but now your talking a lot of money. Plus I do not like to put one new pump in a hole and have five old pumps on a high mileage engine. If you reuse the bushing, it is best to put it back in the same hole as the threads have mated to each other. The spacer or pump does not matter.
Are B model pumps and C model pumps interchangeable?
Early 3406 B's depends on HP, some had up to a 24 degree fuel system camshaft.
3406 C 8PN's are a unique design.
4MG's, 5KJ's and 3ZJ's Again fuel system timing, VTU, dual helix, single helix, different check valves.
Will it bolt up, yes.
Will VTU's interchange? Depends on what you have.
Will it run? yes,
Will it run right? Who knows.
Instead of channel locks to spin the cam shaft, maybe an oil filter strap wrench?
Channel locks works fine. The fuel camshaft is hardened and you won't damage it. You put pumps one and four in first with the lobes down. Then you turn the cam and pin the pump. Now you can put the rest in. Doing one and four first, when you turn the cam, your only working against two lobes with resistance.
Wow, there is a lot of shit-parts in one of those pumps, never new how much... excellent video....
Very educative video
Where on the pump do the RPM connected to
On the rear of the governor is a place to mount a cable driven tach. I would not use it. I would get an electric tach and use the flywheel. You might make the tach shaft oil seal to fail sooner.
That’s cool or Saddles come from your country to
Can you yes chance a planger whiteout timin the pump once you re please o nesesari. Timing
That was a great video very informative. Thanks. And there are a lot of us use the mechanical shut off. Because the new solenoids are junk. I got the arm from Cat and use a cable shut off end of trouble.
I haven't had much trouble with the new solenoids from cat, the new style jakes switches however, are junk.
You can use cable, electric or air over electric solenoids. Use the plate on the cable and remove the old solenoid.
@@hellscanyondieselpower6537 You can use the old 3406 type that mounts on the throttle shaft. But you have more parts, have to adjust it.
3408&3412❤❤
I would like to see how you time a pump think you for your video
Advancing the timing is possible. It will increase cylinder psi, lower boost and make faster response. The outer cover on the VTU has a big screw and little screw. DO NOT MESS WITH THEM. That is your start and stop of advance. You can only set them with a timing indicator group. First check your pin timing, if the flywheel goes in first your retarded. If they drop about the same time your dead on. If the pump goes in first your advanced. If your retarded you need to re-time your pump. Turn engine until the fuel system pin drops in. Remove the VTU cover and loosen the bolts. Put a seal pick in the hole and turn the engine backwards. When it falls in the hole turn the engine slightly until the engine locks up. Replace the bolts, one at a time. (Have seen old ones break). Now torque the bolts (41 FT LBS) remove the pick and pin. Turn the engine backwards thirty degrees or more and then turn engine back forwards. The pin and bolt should drop in about the same time. If want to advance it, before you torque the bolts. Remove the pick and slightly bump the engine backwards a little more. Again torque bolts and do as above. The pump should drop first, then take your seal pick and feel for the hole and see how far you are advanced. I like mine around half a bolt hole. So on the drivers side the hole will be towards the top of the flywheel housing and solid towards the bottom side of the hole. If your installing the VTU, you have basically two types. Old 7FB style and 4MG03600 and up. Get a long 3/8 bolt and cut the head off. It is your guide to align the VTU. Install guide bolt and slide VTU on over the guide bolt and get a few bolts snug, finger tight. If you have the 4MG03600 and up, 5KJ, 3ZJ, 8PN. You need to push the carrier in and seat it. It will push out installing it and you will be severely retarded, if you don't seat it. Get a large screw driver and get between outer cover and flyweight and push it back towards the engine.
You set static timing, (pin) with a bolt in the flywheel. The start and end of advance you have to set dynamically. The spring on the timing is based on engine serial number and HP. You install the timing indicator group, warm the engine up. You go to TMI on the Cat network, (you have to have Cat access) to find your timing information. Again it is based on serial number and HP. If the engine has been rerated, you have to use the performance spec. Once you get your spec, you first check ref timing window. It is usually 1,000 RPM's +/- 30 RPM's with a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now you have you base timing (slot cut in the fuel system camshaft). On NSFS you have 0.2 degrees of port effect for every 100 RPM's. So at ref RPM, (1,000 RPM's) you would add 2.0 degrees of advance for the port effect. So if your static timing on the fuel system camshaft was 24.0 degrees (Example), (0) RPM's it would be 26.0 degrees of advance, at 1,000 RPM's. So you have graph paper, min RPM's would be 970 high to low. Max RPM's would be 1030 RPM's high to low. With max advance at 27.5 degrees and min advance at 24.5 degrees, (Example). If your in tolerance at ref RPM"s the next box is start of advance. Again TMI has start number. You box changes, now you have 100 RPM tolerance and a 1.5 degree tolerance. Now between ref RPM and start, you still have to add your 0.2 degrees of advance per 100 RPM's for port effect added to your start of advance. Next is your end of advance and your spec changes again. You still have the 100 RPM min max, but your timing tolerance now changes to 2.5 degrees for the end of advance. Again you draw your box adding port effect of 0.2 per 100 RPM's. Once you have your timing graphed on paper, engine warmed up. You start recording advance at every 100 RPM's to high idle. Now if your start and end of advance is not on 100 number, lets say start is at 1355 RPM's, (Example). I get a reading at 1350 RPM's and so on for the stop of advance. While engine is warming up, I usually see what ref point is and when timing starts to advance and stop of advance. If you know it has to be adjusted, why waste time doing the full run. First adjustment is ref window, then start window and finally end window. Once your satisfied of your settings now you can do the full run of 100 RPM readings and record your numbers. You go all the way up and then you check it back down. Your making sure on the way down it is not sticking. Once you have all your numbers going up, you put them on the graph paper to see how smooth your advance looks. That is why you DON"T play with the start and advance screws. You have to have this tool to set it or check it. It cost a few $1,000.00's dollars.
I rebuilt a b at cat dealer in may pump cam was over 3 k
Very informative
Hi Josh sent me😉
I have 2 manual cat truck and I built mine because I watched this video
Glad it helped you out
My bench isn’t long enough 😮
Do you have a contact? Looking for someone to redo mines
Hells canyon diesel. Give me a call
Si alguna vez tiene una bomba de inyeccion de un cat 3208 seria la bomba que nos enseñara sobre ella, ya que no conoco ninguna otra bomba en V. Aunque yannmar tiene una en linea y a la vez rotativa.
I have never done the 3208 pumps. Few and far between where I'm located
3208 fuel pumps are sleeve metering. You have to set the cross bar with a special tool. Once that is set, you have to install a dummy pump and set the lever setting. Once that is done, you have to put it on a test bench to see if it will pump out. Also the front cam bearing likes to spin or the camshaft gets a groove from the fuel transfer pump seal. The governor housing has to be reamed and install a check valve to prevent air from entering around the throttle shaft seal. Now you can take it apart and reseal it. However if it has a thrust bearing in the governor and you let it fall out you will destroy your pump. NEVER try to adjust the lever setting or the crossbar with out the special tooling. To get the fuel transfer pump off, you have to pull the sleeve off. It is a one time use. Once it is off that is when the thrust washer can fall out. The thrust washer is located in the rear of the pump. So I made a special tool to keep force on the fuel camshaft forward to prevent the fuel camshaft from moving backwards. If your front bearing has spun, your pump has to be replaced. If your camshaft is worn from the transfer pump seal it has to be replaced. Once you get the one time use sleeve on, you measure end play on the fuel camshaft. If your in spec, OK. If not your taking it all part this time and see what you have broken behind the pump.
Soy bastante prudente en ese aspecto, no las manipuló sin documentación o con asesoramiento de maestros como vosotros. Se me dio el caso en un ripper. Son muy raras aquí en europa. Un saludo y gracias por las aclaraciones.
@@carlosmontero1033 English
this guy really knows his ‘stuff’
well done❗️
🪖
Very good instruction, I professionally repair injection pumps in Bosch service, but I will repair such a pump for the first time. Could you give me the part numbers for the seals for the pump and speed controller. Thank you.
Part number to rebuild/reseal the pump? Loaded question. As pumps changed, part numbers have changed. Some are been replaced with better part numbers. Some you have to stick with what pump is in front of you. When you go to Cat and look up what pump you have SIS has not been updated (most of the time) to the better part number seal. If you order a fuel system kit, it has lots of parts in it that you may not need. However the kits are usually updated with the better seals. So if you try and look that new part number up for you serial number it won't be in the book. Sometimes you have to look the part up in a truck engine news, special instructions, or a newer serial number. The parts guy at Cat will not know how to do this. As with the seal under the bushing for example, that part number has been changed four times that I know of. So each of these numbers are still in Cat's system because it is just a standard o-ring most of the time. Also some hardware changes in the governor that I like to do. Again, not in the book.